What Couples Get Wrong About Love, Respect & Submitting | Sadie Robertson Huff & Christian Huff

What's up everybody? Happy Woe That's Good podcast day. I am so excited about the conversation we are about to have and to be honest it might end up being a little bit like marriage counseling which Christian and I are totally here for. It'll definitely be a counseling episode. Hey there's a reason I invited you to come on this episode. I love being counseled. It felt like we both needed to hear every word that Dr. Emerson is here to bring today. If you don't know who Dr. Emerson is he's really no stranger to probably most of you but he wrote a book called Love and Respect. He has a new book out. I have it right here Lightball Moments in Marriage. If you are a married couple listening to this podcast it is going to bless you. If you're not married yet I highly encourage you to still listen to this podcast because there are going to be so many truths in here that are just good for any stage and any season of your life. So much biblical advice that I can't wait to dive into. But without further ado Dr. Emerson thank you so much for coming on the Woe That's Good podcast. Oh no thank you and what an example both of you are just your humble hearts, teachable hearts. We're all in admiration of you and here you are just soaking in these ideas potentially. So what an example thank you for that. Thank you so much. So there's a question I ask everyone who comes on the Woe That's Good podcast. This might be a hard one for you to answer up up front just because you have probably given so much advice in your life. But the question is what is the best piece of advice that you've ever been given? What some advice someone gave you that helped shape you to become the person that you are today? Well one of the early things happened when I was a freshman at Wheaton College in a class called interpersonal dynamics and it was like I didn't even know there was a field of study like that. And this professor said before you speak to people you need to ask this question. Is that what you are about to say going to build trust or undermine trust? And that was perhaps one of the most revolutionary pieces of advice. I was just ready to hear that because I think I wanted to be an effective person. I wanted to serve people. I wanted to help people but I had a tendency to be intense. I even spoke in chapel during the summer. The chaplain asked me to speak to the Wheaton body of the students there and I met with him afterwards and I wanted him to tell me how wonderful I was and he said well I just have one piece of advice. I said well what? Don't beat the sheep. That was classic. I love the metaphor. So I was too intense and so I had to kind of be more restful. Is that what I am about to say going to build trust with this person or not? And it applies. I have been married to Sarah for over 50 years. Still is this going to build trust or is this going to undermine trust? Am I coming across in a way that feels accusatory, too intense? That for whatever it is worth was one of the most helpful pieces of insight that I received whether it is relevant to others I don't know but I certainly don't know. So good because like you said it affects the dialogue with your spouse or with another person but I feel like it also helps you even from the gossip standpoint of the idea of if I start saying this about this person is that going to build trust or is that going to tear them down? Yeah so it is effective. It is across the board. So I think that is cool to look at it through that lens too. That is good. We have been talking about that a lot lately and so that is really cool to hear you say. And I love that don't beat the sheep. That is actually really good advice too. That was like a little side piece of advice in that story but I am like actually that is really really good. I love it so much. It is cool too that you heard that advice and then adapted. We are big survivor fans. We love to watch Survivor and one of my favorite things about watching Survivor is like you get to see so much humanity in this game you know that they are playing and one of the things that I love about any good player is they start to realize at the beginning maybe what is making the rest of the tribe mad at them or frustrated at them or bothered and then they adjust their game play. They are like oh it is annoying to people whenever I don't pick up the wood and serve the fire. It is annoying to people whenever I talk like this so I need to adjust my game play and it is amazing how those good players end up making it to the end because they made this one pivot day four in their attitude or behavior that you know served them well in all of their relationships and I think in life it is a good lesson. You heard this at Wheaton College and here you are. How many years did you say you have been married? Over 50 we have married in 1973 before you were a thought in the mind of God. That is amazing. It is like that one pivot has served you so well in your relationship for over 50 years so I just love that so much. Before we get into the book and everything and the things you have written and done tell us a little bit about your background. How are you raised? What about your background kind of shaped even why you do what you do today? Good question. I was not raised in a Christian home. My mom and dad did not know the Lord. I have an older sister five years older than me so the four of us grew up in Peoria, Illinois. When I was two and a half I witnessed my dad attempt to strangle my mother. He had her up against a refrigerator. I did not ever surface that scene until after my dad had died and I brought it up to mom and she said you were too young to know that and I described what happened and I said is that what happened? She said exactly and I said well then I was not too young but I spoke to the Liberty University student body what 10-12,000 students about being the wounded healer and this upbringing affected me and my dad later committed adultery. Dad had rage issues. Mother had two businesses. She taught acrobatics and tap dancing and swimming. She was very successful, very dynamic but she felt I needed to go to military school so at age 13 she paid for me to go to military school so I was there from age 13 to 18 at Missouri Military Academy but at 16 I went to a movie called for Pete's sake by Billy Graham and that's where I heard the gospel that God loved me but my sins separated me from that love but Christ died for me and all I had to do is receive Christ into my heart for forgiveness and I came forward in that Liberty Theater and and I found out that Billy Graham had gone to Wheaton. I was headed for West Point. I met with my congressman, the president of the academy can make recommendations and so I was thinking West Point but when I found out that Billy Graham went to Wheaton I thought Billy and I were the only two that knew what was coming coming down and I but I applied and my freshman year my mom's watching me, my dad's watching, my sister's watching me, her husband who's a professor watched me. My freshman year at Wheaton all four of them prayed to receive Christ so my whole family came to Christ but the dynamics of male and female communication the problems mom and dad had I think was a significant factor and then being a military school with no girls at that time at the academy I thought how do we communicate with females and how should dad have communicated with mom and they changed their their when they came to Christ they changed dad was driving mom to speak at Christian Women's Club about how Christ had changed them and their marriage and so they changed but I still had the process the upbringing and I think the male and female dynamic and communication was deep in my soul and I wanted to try to figure it out better than my dad had done and I'm so grateful that things kind of worked in that direction. That is incredible. It's so cool thank you for sharing that part of your story I know that's going to resonate with so many people and also just the message of hope and encouragement because so many people are living within family a lot of people who listen to this podcast we get this response a lot of times like your podcast is the only place that I hear like Christian conversations, godly conversations I haven't seen that model in my home so when your mom comes on I'm learning so much from her when your grandma comes on and that's why I like I love having people like you come on because so many people are coming here for godly advice that maybe they've never gotten before and it's really cool to hear you say that you weren't raised in a godly family I mean it's sad to hear you say I don't mean that's cool it's cool for people to know that they can relate to that and now you know look at what you've done for all these years to help so many families and what god what the enemy went for evil god really can take and turn it for so much good and so this is so encouraging. I have a quick question about the so when you said the Billy Graham movie that you went to go watch were you because I know that you did not have a really a reference point to faith and Christianity did someone invite you to that or did you seek that out or is it something that someone invited you to and you had no idea what you were showing up to? No I think the good question it was an elder at a Presbyterian church that would have been when that denomination is a bit more conservative gave free tickets and they were all free to the cadet corps and anybody who wanted to go could go and so I don't know why I even that's a good question I don't know what prompted me to go but I did go and on that invitation and that's where I sat in that Liberty theater which is ironic I was liberated that day and received Christ into my life and it was a true conversion I mean it really was significant. Wow that is so cool I love it. 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or when honey and haven come and crawl in bed with us it really is just amazing we actually just gave our midnight mattress to a friend who is obsessed with it now and we got the new midnight elite mattress and it's legit and we love it so much so we are giving the gift of Helix and receiving it for ourselves so don't wait try Helix for yourself with their 120 night sleep trial there's no pressure they seriously make upgrading so easy go to helix sleep comm slash seedy for 20 off site wide again that's helix sleep comm slash seedy for 20 off make sure that you enter our show's name when you check out so that they know we sent you there that's helix sleep comm slash seedy so this is a really cool story let me tell you let me tell you our little piece of our personal story with love and respect this this blows on mine okay so christian and I how long you go was this do you remember our marriage counseling yeah when we went this is not this was like two years ago not like pre-marital counseling it was probably two years ago christian and I were you know just a little we were struggling a little bit okay we just had this which I'll get to in the book but the crazy cycle was very much so our cycle we could not figure it out our communication it was just like every time we started to have a conversation it would not take long before it just went south and everything you described in the book was like so similar to how we would do shut down go outside go to walk leave not know what to say frustrated the whole thing so we went to our marriage counselor we've been seeing the same counselor since pre-marriage and we did like our pre-marital counseling she's amazing she's been on this podcast several times miss terra tuckered and it was so wild because we go to miss terra two years ago and we're like we're struggling and we were before we even said anything though she she always says I pray before y'all came asked the holy spirit you know how could I speak into y'all's life and she said there's a book I want to give y'all and I think this is going to be so helpful for y'all and she said but here's the crazy thing she said when I was praying about y'all the Lord just put on my heart I need to give y'all the book love and respect she said I have given this book to so many people this has served so many marriages so well she said but the crazy thing is I pull out the coffee in my bookshelf thinking it's my copy I'm going to give to y'all and she said I opened it and the letter in the front this was what was in this Tara's bookshelf says Sadie and Christian may God bless you with love and respect Dr. Emerson and Sarah so I have no idea how this landed in this Tara's bookshelf and not to us but she gave it to us at the most perfect time we could have ever needed it thinking it was her book is that not crazy that really is I mean that's very uh it's kind of like the Lord may be saying hey I have good news for you I am going to encourage you and bless you and uh we talk about signs wonders and miracles miracles the blind see you know wonders are kind of like even the creation but signs point to something when Jesus told the fishermen cast your nets he was a carpenter and it's kind of like they've been fishing all night it wasn't a miracle that they caught all those fish but it was a sign I mean you could say well it's just a coincidence but they knew because it pointed to something and this is a little thing but a significant thing it would be what we would call a sign the Lord was really trying to encourage both of you and partly because you have a platform and you have a heavy responsibility and I believe you feel that pressure and these kinds of our God moments I thought of your title whoa good this is really well this is whoa this is God and what a joy for you to receive that because you need encouragement like that now signs can be misread we can read into things that we ought not to but I'm going to go on record and say that was pretty pointed that was definitely pretty pointed you could not miss God in that saying hey you too y'all need to learn how to love and respect so I'm so excited to talk about this because we had definitely seen this be pivotal and how we communicate with each other I am happy to say two years later we have way better communication such a stronger marriage and I look back even as I was listening to the audiobook this morning I was laughing thinking man we were really struggling two years ago and this is I'm so grateful how far we've come and we have a long way to go we are so you know so far to go you're at 50 plus years we're at almost seven so we got a long way to go but we've learned so much and this was so foundational but before we dive into some of the specific things can you just tell us the basis of love and respect and a little bit about Ephesians five yes I was a pastor I exposit in scripture I studied the bible 30 hours a week I was in an academic community east lansing home of the michigan state university the spartans and so 20 years pastored there pulpit ministry teaching and I came across this verse Ephesians 5 33 husbands love your wives agape love and wives respect your husbands I have my phd and family studies and I knew that respecting a man would fly like a lead zeppelin it wasn't going to play women say you know I don't I don't feel respect for him he has earned it he doesn't deserve it he's not superior to me I'm not inferior to him not going to be treated like a doormat I believe you have a hidden agenda of returning to patriarchy not going to go there not going to set the feminist team back 50 years I certainly not going to subject myself to emotional abuse but other than these things Dr. Emerson I'm really open to hearing what you have to say about this and that's where we're at as a culture christian and I serve and die for honor the gladiator saving private ryan you know these we serve and die for honor but the feminist movement sees this as narcissistic as egotistical but as I got into this passage I realized there must be something from the father's heart to us it's important and why would God command a wife to put on a respectful demeanor why would God command a husband to put on a loving demeanor and no wife is commanded to a god beloved husband that's only in the marriage passages applies to the husband that is very telling that silence screamed at me and so as I exposit this and study this I realized ah and I said to Sarah what happens when I fail to love you you you tend to negatively react your your default mechanism is a negative reaction we don't default to positivity you know there's a negative reaction and I'll bet it appears to me as a man is disrespectful and maybe that's why the Lord has commanded you to put on respect and why God has commanded me to put on love because when you feel unloved it's natural for you to appear to me as disrespectful when I feel disrespected it's very natural for me to react in ways like withdrawing 85 of those who withdraw and stone wall is the male appear to you as unloving and as I meditated more and more that's when this crazy cycle emerged without love she reacts without respect without respect he reacts without love without love she reacts without respect and without and this baby starts spinning and I always ask our audience at our conferences have you had a conflict with your spouse recently when the issue didn't seem to be the issue and something else was going on the issue was real but it wasn't the root because now you're off onto this other issue in most cases she's probably feeling unloved right or wrong and he's probably feeling disrespected right or wrong and so the question is how do we get off of that crazy cycle and that's been our ministry and mission for all these years helping couples jump off sooner it's so good we it's definitely a crazy cycle we needed to jump off we needed to dive off and I'm so glad that we did I mean for those listening if you start reading this book I mean it didn't take as long to realize why Ms. Tara would have naturally thought to give us this book but I think it was also a prompt from the Holy Spirit as well but it was it was so encouraging and I um one of the things that you talk about in the book is how this is so obvious so why don't we do it you know like this is something Ephesians 5 is like one of the most you know I mean one of the there's a lot of times in scripture we're talking about marriage but like that seems to be like the one that we go to a lot um and it's so obvious but but why do we struggle with it so much like why is it so hard for the woman to respect and why is it so hard for the man to get that love when it seems like oh that would just fix all of our problems what is that root in all of us that that's hard to get past if I if I could say that right because we don't intend to be unloving or disrespectful uh so when we get on a crazy cycle let's say and with Christian when uh he has shortcomings as I have shortcomings you're going to react in a way because of hurt maybe frustration maybe a measure of anger and you're going to respond to him as a woman and women tend to be critical they'll complain uh this is the research you'll give voice to this because you care but in that caring because you're trying to help him understand you you come across in a way that probably nobody talks to him so it appears and hears uh as disrespectful to him but that's not your aim you're you're not trying to say hey you don't get up early in the morning to storyboard ways to show him disrespect that isn't even your mindset actually you're feeling vulnerable and so something happens that you feel unloved you seek to do the loving thing by aggressively moving toward him to give voice to what it is that hurt you you suddenly hear him saying you're being disrespectful again which your blows your mind and you feel even more unloved and there are four levels of proof that you're right and then when you talk with your girlfriends they all have the same story and so you're not you don't want to be right you just know that you are right so there is this uh lack of ill will and the same thing on the man men are not putting a voice vocabulary but he comes home he's he's just a good hearted guy like king david comes in after having worshipped the lord and michael his wife looks at with disgust she's despising he came home to bless when suddenly he gets this onslaught of contempt and he said i will be more likely esteemed so he comes in and suddenly feels disrespected he tries to do the honorable thing probably by not escalating the thing and so pulls back withdrawals only to hear that he's the most unloving person on this side of the mississippi river and he feels even more disrespected and so he's looking at this and think man you know i can never be good enough she's telling me i'm inadequate and she doesn't respect me and so what happens is that he doesn't see his own reaction as unloving she doesn't see her own reaction as as disrespectful so one of my calls based on first krentian seven verses 33 and 34 paul said the husband is concerned about how to please his wife and the wife is concerned about how to please her husband and we all have to come to a point where we're going to believe that scripture more than we're believing our feelings in the moment of the craziness and i ask people does your wife have good will basic good will it doesn't mean that she has good follow through and it doesn't mean we don't have nasty moments but in the deepest core does she have good will and almost 100 men say yes unless she's committing adultery or something but almost every man will say yes does your husband have basic good will would he literally die from you if someone came into threaten and jesus christ said no greater love is a man than us and he lay down his life for his friend does your husband have basic good will and women say yes so what we have to then do and these crazy moments happen when they happen to Sarah me we don't like each other when it gets crazy but one of my roles is say honey we're allies not enemies we're friends not foes we're on the same team we're not opponents now let's have our argument that's good i love that i have so many thoughts i know everything he writes down it's like yes yes that's exactly what happens but i love how you said it's good willed people who genuinely love each other and it's not their aim to hurt each other and i think that's why it was so confusing why we were struggling so much is because i genuinely love him so much and he loves me so much and we know that and we're good people and we're good friends and it doesn't seem like we have these problems in any other relationships in our our life and why is it like that with us when we actually do love each other and then that piece of the puzzle was like oh i can see why this keeps happening because i'm not meaning to sound critical you talk about criticism and stuff like that whenever i'm encouraging you but i can see how that might sound that way i'm trying to encourage you i'm trying to help you but you don't need me to do that you need me to respect you like it the whole thing it was like whoa it's actually a light bulb moment in marriage of like this is why this keeps happening you know i feel like one thing motherhood has taught me is to be more mindful especially when it comes to what my kids are watching because that content shapes them more than we realize screens are just part of life these days but i still want that time to be healthy for them and that's why we love the minnow app it is such a game changer for families who want their kids to grow in their faith in a way that's fun and engaging minnow is the number one streaming service for christian kids content filled with shows that spark their imagination and point them back to god in the bible i love that it makes it so easy to experience faith together whether it's just a quick show during the day while i take a phone call or something they can watch while i make dinner they got some favorites just the other morning we were turning on veggie tells on the minnow app on the tv and uh honey loves veggie tales uh haven's favorite is young david they also have um the new light of the world movie so many great things on there so not only can you actually trust the shows that they're watching but it's also all ad-free which is amazing at the end of the day it's about more than just keeping my kids entertained it's about helping them grow into who they're meant to be uh like i said my kids just absolutely love the minnow app they love all their little shows and it's really cool to hear the stories they know about jesus just from the shows that they're watching so visit gominnow.com to start your free trial today plus you can use the code woe to get your first month for free hey oh this is a web only exclusive offer so make sure to sign up on the gominnow.com website with the code woe to get your first month for free i love how you said there's there's levels to it and it is a cycle because there are there are times where yes there is something said and it's a tone but a lot of times it's the things that go unsaid is when you feel not respected so if it's you know so for me it's like if i do the dishes then take the trash out and do all these things it's like if there's no appreciation for that then to me i can feel disrespected and then for you if you come home from work and if i'm uninterested in your day then you don't feel loved so a lot of times it's the things that go unsaid that lead to those triggers of not feeling respected not feeling loved and then oftentimes too yeah it is the tone yeah in which you you can say things and i feel like for us oftentimes it's the things that go unsaid that leave you feeling disrespected and and unloved actually on the note of tone one of my favorite things you said in the book is it's like maybe in chapter one but you talked about how when you said to sarah you're saying the right thing but you're wrong at the top of your voice or something like that it's like the right thing with the wrong tone really does matter and i could see that even for me because it's kind of like beat the sheep i have like a strong way of like talking sometimes where i'm like i'm trying to be encouraging you know but it sounds like too aggressive aggressive yes and so it's like a coach it's like that's not what you need from a wife you know and so i i love that can you speak a little bit about just the power of our tone and how we speak to one another from a wife and a husband perspective because you even talk about this and we can go into the pink and the blue the pink uh hearing aids and and glasses in the blue as well is very helpful well i talk about hone the tone hone the tone and that's one way of expressing but yeah you can be right but wrong at the top your voice is the the quote there and that is uh proclivity for all of us we have a propensity when we're upset or we're a little insecure to to overreact and come out maybe a little bit louder but also just normal interpersonal dynamics women are just going to express themselves they're not trying to be disrespectful they're actually trying to be caring and helpful pointing out something if he just kind of did that i'm i'm sharing this with you to help you but men have vulnerabilities where women don't and women have vulnerabilities where men don't he says is that your second piece of cake well you know we all have vulnerabilities and if we're not aware of that it's so easy to be dismissive because if we're equal therefore we should be the same if we're equal therefore we should be identical but god made us different and yet what happens we're just approaching this in innocence we're approaching this with good will as we've been talking about you're trying to do the loving thing you're not trying to be disrespectful however one of the things that we can begin to do if we're thinking yeah i kind of feel like i'm in dark on this emerson i don't really kind of know then because i'm i i think i'm trying to help help i'm trying to in this suddenly my spouse shuts down on me so what a woman needs to do is introduce what i call the respect talk and the man needs to introduce the love language so if we see the spirit of our spouse deflate we don't even have to do something proactive we can say wait a minute i i'm not trying to be disrespectful here you're an honorable man who would die for me if i don't kill you first but you're you're an honorable man so help me say this in a way that you don't feel that my underlying motive here is to dis you i i'm oblivious i know i don't do this well help me because you're an honorable man i don't want to diss you but i am upset about something how can i have this conversation without you thinking i've got another agenda and that's to put you down say that you're inadequate and that i don't respect you because of it and same thing saying to sarah help me here you know my old man you know his rage issues i don't want to get i want to say this in a loving way but help me say this in a loving way i don't want to be unloving in this see when if we introduce it with the love and respect concept uh sometimes that's very disarming because the other person sees our sincerity so those who are new to this you don't have to be a perfect lover a perfect respecter just tell them that you're not trying to be unloving actually i'm not trying to be disrespectful that is really good that's been really helpful for us we've had to talk about that a lot well i think too and and and it's like you've kind of said too it's like there also is like even for men to be to be respected and you kind of mentioned this earlier but i think sometimes that idea of you know the respect aspect it can seem domineering of like you just need to respect me and it's like there also needs to be a kind of accountability for men to be well if you want to feel respected then you need to you need to do things that are respectable so if you come home or if you're living your life in a way that you aren't living your wife you're not on your kids you're not you're not being a good man you can't just demand respect because it says it in the bible yes yes it's biblical but you have to live out these traits that are going to make somebody respect you you can't just demand respect and there'll be no accountability in your life and i think that's when the domineering and just kind of that assertive assertiveness can can be misguided is when you're demanding something that you're not exuding um but i love how i love how you kind of hit on that earlier because i think sometimes in our culture well we can get wrapped up yeah no that's exactly right and one of the things i say is that i never have told sarah to submit to me and haven't ever said you're not respecting me um because that's god's command to her that's god's command to her and so i don't go over on that side of the equation i made a commitment god calls me to love sarah now we'll have discussions where she will see me deflate she did i come across this respectful i'll give voice yeah that felt disrespectful to me but it's not accusatory it's more of helping us mutually understand each other and so i say to men who are men of honor do we have a right to say to our wives you must submit you must respect me because the minute i do that then i'm probably not leading in love because the better way to get her to respond is to say if you and i said it guys if your wife's coming across to you disrespectful why not ask this way honey that just felt very disrespectful to me but that i just come across earlier in an unloving way that triggered the crazy cycle helped me understand what i did to trigger this negative reaction helped me understand what i did that was unloving a true leader an honorable man is not afraid of asking that question and i sometimes say to men you know you have enough courage to die for this woman but do you have enough courage to live with her and do you have enough courage to ask that question because that's really the way you need to approach it and so the challenge is if she's coming across disrespectfully and if she's got good will she doesn't want to do that that's not a turn on to her that's not her goal she's usually upset hurting and she's insecure and she's negative reacting to get your attention through the deeper cry of her heart so if you say that i just come across as unloving because what you just did here felt so disrespectful to me can we talk about that and if you're a man's man you'll do that it's not a comfortable conversation it's much easier just to intimidate her and threaten her and but that's not good leadership and the same thing with the woman who's a great leader dynamic person you say well you're this wonderful leader hey if you see very clearly that he's come across in an unloving way rather than just speak contempt and disrespect have enough courage as a great leader to say honey that just came across as very unloving to me did i say or do something earlier that felt disrespectful to you that i failed to express appreciation for taking out the garbage because i noticed you've been moody that i do something that contributed to this don't be afraid and but this is what what's really the issue here we're afraid of doing that and so part of the self-awareness that even you talked about earlier we have to become self-aware why would i not do that well i'm fearful i'm fearful that are going to say yeah and that's what you do all the time you're the most unloving human being on the planet you're the most disrespectful creature on the planet and so if we're going to give into that fear then um then i would have you step back and ask yourself hey maybe this is a moment for me to be a little bit more courageous because at the end of the day the only thing that's here is going on is social ostracism this isn't death this isn't persecution this is social ostracism at its worst and the question is can we handle this you know or is it going to be you can't handle that that's so good i love when you talk about to like who's going to be the first to apologize or to come have the conversation and you say well which of you is the most mature it's like oh that's so challenging and so good um because yes you got to swallow your pride to have those conversations or be brave enough or courageous enough to have those conversations despite the feelings of fear that you're having or insecure that you're having one of the things that i i'm thinking about is that you know in our culture today we love to like we love to do things like enneagram myers brigg we love to like know who we are we love um even what's your love language and so you know i could say oh i love words about formation and he loves quality time or we can go to the myers brigg and it's like he's more of the feelings person i'm more of the thinking person like we have all these things and how we respond i can see people going um well yeah i'm a girl but um i actually need respect or yeah i'm the guy you know what i'm saying like they they might think yeah they're this person and they're that person they're the wife or the husband but it's actually different for them because of the type of personality that they have um i love how even going on that note and i love i want you to speak to that even talk about how a ritha franklin song you know aria spect found out what it means to me like girls love that song because like yeah we need respect there's this feminism movement of like we want that more manly role sometimes i guess and so can you speak to just like the core of like how we were created from god by god to need love and a man's need for respect and those aren't really interchangeable i mean yes we both need both but like it's not like a personality test thing it's a how we were designed thing spring is one of those seasons when people start thinking about what's next whether that's starting something new finishing a degree or starting to think about what school might look like for your kids next year and that's why i want to tell you about liberty university a school i genuinely love their mission is to train champions for christ which means students are grounded in biblical truth while also growing academically and that balance really matters if you've been thinking about an online education you have to check out liberty university online programs i actually took online classes myself from liberty and it was such a great experience they offer more than 600 degrees and most courses are 100 online with no required login times so that you can really learn anytime anywhere um their classes really are amazing my sister has been a liberty student for a long time she has furthered her education and seeing her balance so much what she does in life also doing school is very inspiring she does a great job with it uh so if you're looking for something for your kids liberty university online academy is a fully accredited k through 12th private christian online school my sister bella did that so l u o a and had a great experience flexible self-paced supported by certified teachers and students can even join clubs field trips and other activities so that they still get that community experience and here's something really special for my well-laid good listeners application fees are way for all liberty programs right now you can also enter for the $50,000 sady scholarship giveaway for a chance to win one of multiple scholarships for liberty university so go ahead take the next step in your journey visit liberty.edu slash sady to enter the giveaway and get on your path to purpose don't wait visit liberty.edu slash sady today yeah no i think it's an excellent question i mean one point i think is we all need love and respect equally i mean i do believe that we need it equally uh but we've asked uh seven thousand people this question when you're in a conflict with your spouse are you more likely to feel in love at that moment or more likely to feel disrespected 83 percent of the men said they feel disrespected from a statistical standpoint that is statistically significant in its off charts and 72 percent of the women say they uh feel unloved but to the point you're making there's a percentage of people he feels unloved she feels disrespected and i have a whole chapter in love and respect about how to honor esteem and respect your wife based on verse peter three verse seven where a husband is to live with his wife and and honor her as a fellow heir of the grace of life so i never push back on the woman who says you know i need respect my mother needed to be respected i come out of that dad was disrespectful and dishonoring of mom and so that is big on my radar screen at the same time there's not one movie that ends with the hero embracing the damsel saying i want to respect you the rest of my life true and if you'll see every movie where the woman is feeling do you love me and so there is this cultural i think recognition of that and so to me it's not a matter of of choosing one or the other if you get on the crazy cycle and you're reversed and some are then the same applies if she's feeling disrespected that needs to be addressed there times sara feels disrespected i dismissed maybe come across dismissing her opinion and so she's feeling i don't feel unloved this moment i feel like you're not respecting me and so each person has to be aware of that but if there is this cultural pushback particularly among females it's almost dominantly female women kick into a default mode that they somehow are going to be dismissed and so there is always a counter i wrote a book called mother and son and mother and son and all the emails mothers were sending me about how they applied this to their sons with and they began to connect with their sons but whenever i go in an area and i say i've written this book called mother and son the first question almost every woman in the room said when you're going to write one on father daughter they will hijack the conversation not because they're ill-willed but because they've been conditioned to believe that you're saying something against women if you say something favorable about men and so if we say a man is motivated to serve and die for honor and respect it isn't too long before some women will take that conversation back over to themselves and these nurturing loving individuals need to step back and ask wait a minute we're not saying something against your daughters when we're talking about your sons i'm talking about christian here let's let christian give voice to this himself and if a woman says i need respct and by the way odys redding wrote that song and it was a song to his wife age and erita franklin came along and turned it so and i i say in our conference is men we had one song one song and even that they took they took the one song we had that is really funny that's so funny well i love to because i think even this this the idea of love and respect it's so helpful in marriage in relationships but it but it also crosses boundaries to to friendships and i think it provides such a such a healthy framework for for friendships and how you do friendships and life and you know you have in-law dynamics you have all kind of all kind of things and it's even been helpful for us to where there's situations with with friendships where it might be something like if i don't get invited somewhere right my primary instinct is i don't feel respected by this person if they invite all my other friends but they don't invite me i i don't necessarily feel unloved i feel you know do they not respect me and then for her it's it's kind of the same thing it's if she gets left out of something her primary instinct is i feel unloved or unwanted um so it's even helped us communicate in those aspects to where if i if something happens like that and there's a flare up you know she's not necessarily she might be kind of confused by why that may be triggered me so much but because it is that core instinct of of you know feeling disrespected and and desiring to be respected um so yes it's helped us so much in marriage but also just in life and relationships and so that i'm saying that to the person listening if if you're single if you're not married if you're not dating it still is a primary core in how you do friendships in in in your relationship with your family um so i think it even just crosses those boundaries outside of marital relationships too it's so true yeah and and you have a happier audience i believe is single and it's challenging for women in particular think okay when i come across to a man or anybody do i come across in a way that appears disrespectful we know your hearts may be hurting your longing they're trying to get a message through i applaud all of that and i'm 100 in your camp but if you misrepresent yourself if you come across in a way that's way too negative too disrespectful you're trying to be rescued sometimes trying to help them see that they hurt you stepped on your ear hose it's important for you to step back like in that class that i was in a freshman is that which i'm about to say going to build trust or am i trust is that which i'm about to say going to come across disrespectful maybe they deserve disrespect but you can't motivate people with contempt it never works it's toxic it is the number one toxic ingredient contempt and disrespect that's why i had my choice between two people living in a relationship lovingly or a relationship respectfully the research at the university of washington said contempt is the most toxic and this is why peter tells wives to respect and husbands to honor he never talks about love he talks about respect and honor and therefore if you want to develop in one area as a woman in particular how do i come across in a way that's respectful without losing power and respect doesn't mean that you somehow acquiesce no it's unconditional positive regard toward the spirit of another human being so as you're communicating what upsets you when you're communicating the truth you do so in a way that shows respect to their inner person you're coming across well as jesus said the spirit's willing but the flesh is weak so they may have failed you but jesus never told showed contempt toward the spirit of the three disciples that fell asleep he came across to them as saying your spirit's willing but your flesh is weak and so the important thing is what's my attitude like when i'm giving voice to my brother to my father to a male cohort uh this is a a a a beautiful moment to begin to develop as christian saying the insights on this because it'll do you a great deal of service as you then get into a relationship and furthermore it may be inadvertent on your part that you're undermining relationships going forward because you don't realize how negative and disrespectful you come across your hearts in the right place so to men if you come across as harsh and angry that one of the longings of every woman is to find a man who's kind kindness and if you're coming across the way that's unloving even though you are noble and you'll give your shirt you cannot have a demeanor that's unloving and expect any woman to be interested in so good this is so helpful one thing i want to bring up and this is more in the new book light bulb moments in marriage so you have this chapter where you talk about like the holy word and hollywood and i want to bring this up because this is such a like even knowing this conversation this is going to encourage so many people help so many people they're also going to be a group of people who are frustrated by this conversation and i know that because for me i don't know that i've ever actually talked about this publicly or even acknowledged it publicly but here we go um it was a few years ago we host a conference called elo sister conference and it is like one of my favorite things we get to do we host 4 000 girls here in montreal louisiana and it is just all things like encouraging women to be like the women that god called them to be the whole thing is called elo sister we're a sister and a friend of those who don't have one we encourage each other it's girlhood it is fun it's freedom it's worship and messages and shopping together and food eating together like it's amazing it's so positive i i literally say we're throwing a birthday party for every girl and that's how we want them to fill so it's all things happy well um cosmopolitan the magazine uh started seeing that i'm doing this elo sister conference and got interested in it so they you know let us know that someone would be coming from cosmopolitan to cover the conference and i thought that's interesting and honestly i didn't even know if it was going to be real because it felt so random that cosmopolitan which is known for being a very provocative magazine would want to come to elo sister conference so from the start i never really felt great about it but all are welcome please you're welcome to come be a part of the conference and we're glad you're here well they asked me for an interview and i said you know sure and they asked me a couple questions and then they said do you believe that women have to submit to men in the interview and i i was very like it was kind of like the tone shifted the conversation just shifted and i was like well you know in the bible it does talk about you know women submitting to the man as as the spouse and as a husband and i break down a little bit of what that means and whatnot and carry on the conversation okay a couple weeks go by and all of a sudden i wake up one morning i'm getting texts from friends i'm so sorry i saw this on the news and sure enough i scroll left and on the main news you know there's only like five things that are there and one of them is cosmopolitan magazine with me as the headline uh saying that i say women have to submit to men and then there's a seven page spread in cosmopolitan magazine of my elo sister conference with a underlying negative tone of what i'm telling women they have to be or should do that that was never mentioned at our conference that's not even that's not a focal point of our conference that's nothing we talk about however she asked me that question and i said well that is in the bible that's not really that's not elo sister's message here but again when you start talking about that it's like people feel all of a sudden you're saying something against women or whatever it is and so it wishes very eye-opening to me people's defense when it comes to this topic and how quickly people are okay that's good you're doing the same but it has to do with the bible and if it has to do with the bible there's this verse in the bible and that makes me mad i want to bring that up because you have that about the holy word and hollywood and i happen to have an experience in a hollywood setting where these things clash can you speak to that a little bit because i i know there are listeners who feel those walls of defense rising at and what does this mean for me how does that fit into everything and maybe it's even stopping them from even a relationship with god because they don't understand how those things can work together where it can call you to that but you're still loved and like you've said equal and made in the image of god and all those things okay real talk mother's day gifts can feel a little repetitive yes flowers are sweet but they last what like three days on the counter then it's just another thing to clean up and that's why i'm going to tell you about or frames because it is such a meaningful upgrade it's something that keeps giving long after mother's day is over so instead of giving another gift that fades this is something that keeps her favorite memories right out in front every single day and what's so cool is you can add unlimited photos and videos so no awesome moments get left behind and you can even preload it before it ships so it shows up with all the sweet memories already filled there plus you can send photos straight to the frame from anywhere using the free aura app so it's easy to update right when the best moments happen so it's a gift that keeps on given um actually i'm a mother-in-law's table like right when you go into their kitchen you can see her aura frame i'll just sit there and look at all the different memories that pop up of the kids it's one of my favorite things to see at her house actually so many people in our family have aura frames and they just are amazing so make mother's day special with aura frames name number one by wire cutter you can save on the gift mom's lab by visiting aura frames dot com for a limited time listeners can get 25 off their best-selling carver mat frames with code woe that's aura frames a u r a frames dot com with the promo code woe support this show by mentioning us a check out terms and conditions apply no i'd be glad to do that and there are several levels there i wrote a book speak your mind and before you speak is it true is it kind is it necessary is it clear and cosmopolitan entrapped you they had an agenda they know they weren't honest they used that against you and they're going to be responsible for that because they're not they weren't being truthful they had an agenda they didn't want to appreciate all that was going on in those 4 000 young women's lives that wasn't their interest they had an agenda and in some ways they need to be very honest with themselves about what they did and that's that's on them but in terms of if you want to know what the bible says about submission i teach has been teaching it for you know 20 years paul says and listened carefully to me if you want to know what it says not you too but anybody out there Ephesians 5 21 says be submitted to one another out of reverence for christ he begins that text with verse 21 so we are to be submitted to one another out of reverence for jesus christ that's that's what we do and what does submission mean that means you you're submitting to the others need not submitting to the others lust peter confronted ananias and sapphira who lied to the holy spirit and they lost their lives he didn't say to sapphire you are a dutiful wife and submitted to ananias and you get a live no she lost her life peter saw firsthand that she displeased jesus christ because she went along with her husband and that is very clear anybody who wants to know what the bible says it better be pretty good at it and not just take verses out of context so first of all we say we submit to one another out of reverence for jesus christ it isn't about your spouse even it's touching the heart of christ so if you don't have a relationship with christ those of you at cosmo palatine do you love christ do you come out of a christian background you know what we're talking about it's about jesus christ first and foremost but then he says in that passage which you went unpack husbands love your wives and then he says to or the wife submit first of all excuse me i misdid that submit to your husbands who put us so is the greek word and then husbands love your wives that's the sequence then he concludes with husbands love and wives respect and i thought wait a minute why doesn't he say husbands love wives submit because he had said they submit love you should be wait a minute love smith but he says respect then i went over to peter peter says your wives who put us to submit your husbands and if any of them are just being in the word they could be won by your respectful behavior why doesn't he say submissive behavior because he started with submission but then he says respect and one day it hit me here's what the scripture is saying i submit to sarah's need to feel loved for who she is when we're having needed fellowship in a doozy of a conflict i submit to her need to feel loved the first and foremost definition of submission for wife is submitting to your husband's need to feel respected when you don't feel respect for him that you respectfully address the issues that are upsetting you that's what submission first and foremost is in the apostles mind both paul and peter the text is very clear now i say if push comes to shove if there's an sarah and i've never had a decision where we you know i had to just trump the situation but philosophically you can't have two heads and every organization knows that so we say in the christian community it isn't the right of the husband to be the head to make that final decision in the event that happens he has the responsibility before jesus christ and he will have to give an account to jesus christ the wife is not responsible for that philosophically theologically that's where we land and i have my phd and family studies and when you get into the research this is not only representative of an egalitarian position but it is complementary in the sense that there are male and female differences but even today women still expect the husband to die for them even if they're egalitarian it isn't like the wife says well we're 50 50 here and i'll die for you it doesn't go down that way and so i just asked for a little empathy here for those critics to revisit this a little bit and let's be honest about this situation but if you want to know what the bible says about submission there it is first and foremost and you have to then debate it on that level rather than somehow say oh the christian community is telling women just to be doormats and submit and go along with anything the husband says we don't teach that and if you're going to speak what is true kind necessary and clear you make make sure that you do that cosmopolitan i'm very disappointed in your editorials great i'm so glad i asked you that question and i'm one of the i i love podcasting for this reason because a lot of people on social media are so quick to make statements and you got to come out you got to say it and i tend to do this where someone will happen it'll be months years later and i'll finally bring it up when it feels right that's why i love having people on this podcast who have so much wisdom and i'm seeking wisdom because i'm like i haven't really addressed that there's it's a you know we it just was what it was i believe in what i'm doing they attract and i know what's true it's okay you know that kind of thing and you just kind of keep doing your thing but i'm so grateful that i did bring it up in this context because i learned so much even by the way you just broke that down and that was very very helpful so thank you so much and i appreciate your passion towards the subject because it really does confuse so many people and uh it yes it's huge and it's hard to get in debates with people when you don't understand the context or the truth and also you're not coming at it again with the right tone and those just even how you broke that down was so beautiful that was that was awesome that was so good it's mutual deference it's mutual deference and submission is not a bad word and so i'd say to the cosmopolitan people if you're in a relationship you'll submit to your spouse why because you love them and you respect them you will defer to their needs at certain points and that's what this is all about this has been the call of christ he submitted himself on the cross we don't apologize for that but if you're saying it's always one-sided man against woman we are in the same camp as you are cosmopolitan but you need to be part of our community to know what we teach don't you presume that's really good well i love again i think i did say this to her that day about how jesus he embodied and showed submission to god by literally like dying on the cross and so it's not just something for women it's something that our savior showed us it's what jesus did on the cross and so i think that that's like such a beautiful thing that jesus you know he really can't empathize with us in our weakness and all of our things because he has gone through it and as a man went through the ultimate submission of and laying down his life so everything you've been saying it it's just uh that that was amazing i don't have enough words that was really good well we're almost out of time but i have like a selfish question ask at the end but ask it okay so chapter nine of your book you talk about self-awareness and and and being defensive and i think in our marriage this is something that i've seen i've gotten a lot better at it um but for me for a while it was a struggle so we've kind of talked about the integrable a little bit i'm a type one which you know just perfectionist i'm very self introspective to where i'm very critical of myself in certain situations and there would be times where i would make a mistake or i would do something that i if you know i said something i shouldn't have said i did something i should not have done and i'm so hyper aware of of the sinfulness of that that i in my mind and thoughts just beating myself up telling myself i'm stupid i'm dumb i shouldn't have done that to where when my wife goes to call it out of me i've already i've already beat myself up so much about it and i'm trying to work it out in my own headspace with with god to where she when she lovingly speaks into it it frustrates me and it's this defensiveness of like i know i know i did that i shouldn't have said that i'm working that out um but can you kind of in a like practical it's kind of what you said where um you say like okay how can i say this in a way that doesn't come off just your sweatful because even if i would say hey when you said that it hurt my feelings even if i said it very nicely or simply because he's already beating himself up for it he's like i know when i said that you know whatever and so then i'm like well i i feel like even though i know you know can i still say it hurt my feelings so we can still get to the point where and it would get to where you're sorry for it even if her tone was perfect you know perfect situation great time to bring it up it's still it's still because there is an insecurity there and there is a there's a wall up there but can you kind of speak into that a little bit like i said this is kind of a selfish i'm asking you this as a counselor no no i mean it's where we all live there is who wouldn't yeah one level another and that's why i wrote light bulb moments we have thousands of testimonies of people who had light bulb moments in you reference chapter nine on self-awareness that our defensive reactions can be offensive and we don't see it and i give a whole lot of insights along this line and one point i make sometimes we don't need more effort we need more light and sometimes we think we're just miles apart in relationship and just a little insight can be very very helpful first of all i'd say christian i like the fact that you lean in that direction because you're going to be self-examining and even though you beat yourself up as you reflect on these situations even though you may feel yourself being more insecure and i blew it and you really punish yourself that's going to be i think beneficial to you to become a man of tremendous wisdom because you're going to be assessing your own reactions why did i do that what happened here how can i make that different and the pain of the moment isn't pleasurable at all but over the next so many years you're going to become wiser and wiser and wiser i'd rather have a person be in that situation where they're self-examining themselves and self-aware and beating up on themselves rather than you know justifying themselves and blaming everybody else the first sin after the first sin of avid and eve was the blame placing he blamed the woman and god in one sentence the woman you gave me made me eat and then she blamed the serpent natural tendency in these situations is the place blame but your natural tendency is to come inward and it's not a pleasant experience but i'd rather you be that way it's really good than the other way so first of all that's very very important but in the book on that particular chapter this comes back to our innocence again our good intent when we get on a crazy cycle as i said earlier we're not trying to be offensive without love she reacts without respect without respect he reacts without love but you put this information in chapter nine in this without love defensively she reacts offensively without respect and without respect defensively he reacts offensively without love and when we're feeling disrespected we're on the defensive we put up our shield we don't understand the extent to which we're contributing to the craziness that we start offending our spouse and then they react and they we feel like they're piloting on we're in disbelief so part of self-awareness is understanding that particular dynamic but i think the other point as you journal as you reflect on these things i just want a high file with you because i predict in the next so many years how old are you right now christian 27 yeah i mean when you're 35 you're even before then right now you are going to be that but you keep leaning into that don't be afraid of that it's not uh at all pleasurable but keep allowing that keep reflecting i think that is part of my temperament as well growing up just i why did i just do that wrong you know you beat the sheep right oh man you mean i was that horrible that really weighed on me how in the world that i come across in that way but as a result i begin to reflect how do you say things in a kinder way yet truthful way how do i come across in a way that doesn't beat the sheep i remember being so discouraged when the chaplain said i just have one sentence don't beat the sheep and i beat myself up but i'm grateful because i became teachable and i began to improve on that my concern today is that people are not moving into self-awareness they're not self-examining they're just suppressing the truth and unrighteousness and you're doing yourself a great disservice because you're afraid of going through the pain that we see christian going through here in that situation now saty is saying hey if he didn't do though something do i have a right to say well yeah i i'm so grateful that you're humble right now and confessional but i also have to give voice to my feelings that you hurt me and the question is is that piling on and that's where sometimes we have to think through is this the moment um how do i broach that subject is he going to self-improve do i need to say anything is it true is it kind is it necessary sarah and i will often say is it really necessary at this point to say that is it really necessary and there's no formula on this uh we just have to be more discerning and uh but you're both are doing so well i'm very impressed just with your wisdom and uh just how god is using both of you so you need to both be greatly encouraged may your tribe increase that's what i say this was so encouraging i think it's one of my favorite i know me too i loved it so it's not fair we've ever done together for sure that was so fun and like i learned so much i really do feel like sometimes we're in these moments and you're thinking about the listener and then sometimes you're like okay can i just ask something really fast for myself everybody else will hear it but it feels so personal and i'm so grateful for that so truly thank you so much for you and sarah y'all's life that you live and lead the books that you've written incredibly helpful for us and our family and uh we just couldn't thank you enough and i can't wait for everybody to listen to this episode thank you