My Daughter Had a Traumatic Experience at a Sleepover

I have an eighth grade daughter and up until about a year ago I had never allowed her to go to sleep overs. I decided to let her go during that sleepover one of the girls with a phone had the apple makele and an old perverted man had exposed themselves to the girls. What's going on? This is John with a Dr. John Deloni show. Man, I'm glad you're with us. A lot of hurting people out there and not a lot of people to call. So I'm glad that you've reached out. I'm glad you're listening. Glad that you're pulling up a seat and we're going to figure out what's the next right move in your life with your mental and emotional health, your relationships, your marriage, your kids, whatever you got going on. It's got to bend Oregon and talk to Jessica. What up Jessica? Hello. How are you? I'm good. How are you nervous? I don't be nervous. I'm not very good at this. You're good. You're good to go. What's up? What's up? So I have an eighth grade daughter. I also have a fifth grade daughter and up until about a year ago I had never allowed her to go to sleep over. She'd had a handful of one-on-one sleepovers with some friends that are family, but outside that I didn't allow her to do summer parties. But this year feels like there's one about every month. I decided to let her go. She has really good friends. She's a good girl. She went and the next day I could tell something was off. She told me that during that sleepover, one of the girls with a phone had the apple of a apple and an old perverted man had exposed to themselves to the girls. Obviously, it was pretty upset about it. But now I'm in a situation where I don't know if I should stop letting her have them or appreciate that she told me and I just don't know how to handle it going forward. They're just constant and I'm the only one that doesn't let my daughter stay or had them. So just trying to figure out how to navigate this. Number one, I hate that hat to that happen to her. Yeah, me too. I hate all of it. I hate that I got to go to sleepovers when I was a kid and we didn't make great choices, of course, but we shouldn't deal with that, right? And how much guilt are you carrying right now? I mean, I wasn't so much a guilt. Something similar actually did happen to me. I'm 40 and when I was in the fifth grade, I went to a sleepover and somebody had put on a porno and it was very traumatizing and I never told my parents. And so my biggest thing was I was so happy that she was able to tell me because I carried as a child a lot of shame and guilt over that for years because I was very conservative, Christian home and I felt like I had done something wrong. So I'm very glad that she was able to tell me and I told her it was not your fault. But yeah, I was mad at myself. I said, I just, this is why I don't let her do this. But I also don't want her to now stop telling me things because if I now don't let her then it's like, well, if I just hadn't told her, then I would be able to go. I would tell you that is probably how an eighth grader, a 13 or 14 year old will process that and that's okay. I want to tell you that you have done hard work to change your family tree. What I mean by that is you've created an environment where your daughter feels safe to come tell mom big scary things. And kids can handle a ton. They just can't handle it by themselves like you had to do when you were a little girl. Yeah. And so the fact that you've been able to process with her that you created a world over a decade or more, I don't know how old she is, but you created a world where she came to you, which is amazing. Okay, so I want to applaud you for that. And I hear from kids, this is the way I hear that when they come back and say, hey, I went to this thing and this happened to me, especially big scary things like this. The way I interpret that is please help me. And so what you have to do is the next scary terrifying thing, which is risk her being mad at you for her being safe. And that's a parents job. What that means is that if there's going to be a sleepover, it's going to be at y'all's house, which is inconvenient, which is a lot and it's dramatic. And you've got boring rules that other girls don't have. F-great. Yeah. Yeah. My wife is prepping one tonight. That they're coming to our house. And just so you know, just so you're not the only weird one, I know in your little community, you might be there's zero technology allowed. Period. Yeah. Yeah, and there was luckily after that sleepover, it did the host daughter also told her. And there was a big group thing that went out and you know, the bunch of every mom was on it and there was a consensus like going forward, no phones after 9 p.m. or whatnot. So that at least is helpful, but it's still that you know, there's always a way. Exactly. Technology. So it's not even so much just the phone. It's just the exhaustion of the lack of control over who's there. That is just the rest of it. Totally. And that's why when they come to my house, yeah. There's I don't want to put anybody on blast, but I mean, I don't care how old they are. I have or my wife will call other parents and be like, okay, here's the regulations and the rules and the whatever. Yeah. Right. And again, I've talked about on the show. I'm so obnoxiously over the top careful. But here's the deal. You know that you can't let her go again. At least for a while. Yeah. And so there is one this weekend and next weekend. And I did say, um, luckily it starts at like noon and then it goes into it. And you know, I did say, Hey, you know, we have and then I struggle with like, do I be honest about why or do I just said, you know, the next day you have like two basketball games you've got. We have a friend, Chris is part of you like, I just can't have you being exhausted or do I just say it? We're not doing those. I think saying that having that conversation not with one in the balance. Okay. And so here's what an amazing moment would be for you and your daughter. Have you told her about happened to you in fifth grade? No. Okay. This is an amazing moment of mom and daughter connection. She's 13. She's old enough to hear that story. But y'all go out to breakfast and you tell her, Hey, I've been wrestling with something since you told me what happened. And then I want to tell you, not in graphic detail, but somebody puts something in a movie that is still stuck in my head to this day. And I knew better than to let you go. And I wanted you to have so much fun. And I don't want you to be the only weird kid. And here I am. I overrode myself. And then good God, it happened again. I love you too much to put you in those kind of situations again. And you have full permission to tell your friends that your mom is an old school out of touch loser. Right. But if there's if there's a party in that you're having this conversation at 4 p.m. on a Friday and the party's that night, it's going to go awful. Yeah, not the right time. Right. Yeah. A random Tuesday morning at a diner is going to be the win to have this. And she'll metabolize it. And you can look at her and say, I understand that you think it's because you told me it's not. Because somebody else told their mom, I would have got back to me. We'd be having this conversation whether you talked to me or not. I'm so proud of you for being honest. Yeah, I know. And that that actually is true in this case. Of course, it would have absolutely gotten back to me. So now that's that's a good idea. I will do that. And then is there any age where while they're in your house where you would allow it or like you personally, I will never do it based on age. I'm always going to do it based on my relationship first and foremost. This sounds nuts. My relationship with their friends parents. Okay. Do I trust them? No, that makes sense. Right. And usually it's done in little ways like, hey, my kids, my kid in sixth grade, my son, he's in high school now, but in sixth grade, hey, we're all getting the kids together and we're going to watch a movie. All right, well, my wife calls and says, we're weirdos, but I can't let him go over there if anybody has any access to the internet and if there's any phones anywhere. That particular parent took up everything. All of it. Yeah. Shut everything off. It was amazing. And so in little bits and pieces and we went to dinner together and we did, we were on the same baseball teams, etc. And so they proved over time that not only did they respect our values, they begin to adopt some of them in their home. Us going first gave everybody else permission to go, ah, right? Yeah. And so it had nothing to do with how old my kid was. It had way more to do with, do I trust the environment here? Okay. No, that makes sense. And so, and then there's just being smart and safe. Yeah. And it just kind of is what it is. And so strangely, the younger they are, the more likely an older brother, and maybe not even older brother, an older brother, an older brother's friend's going to be there or somebody's going to have a phone like what happened with your daughter. And then the older they get, they're just going to have, they don't have wine coolers. They have kegs, right? It just, the stakes are higher. They're going to take the car out, right? So, call me old-fashioned, call me whatever. I'm just not a fan of, of there's an old West Texas saying that is one, one 14 year old boy is half of a brain. Two 14 year old boys is no brain. Right? And so it's like, it's the square root of the more kids you put together, right? And I never, I'm going to blame a kid for that. Why? Because they're kids. Of course they want to go experiment and see what crazy thing as someone has on their phone. Of course they want to watch some weird war footage that someone's getting beheaded. Like, not, they want to watch. It's just curious about it, right? Curious. Exactly. And when I asked her why she did stay in the room when they were on the app, she said I was just curious. That was exactly her answer, because some girls did leave the room. And she said I was just, I just didn't know I was curious. And when I think about it, I'm like, that makes sense. Of course I want to know. Yeah. Different. And yeah. And so all that to say is it's not about age for me. It's about my relationship with their parents. And do we have mutual trust over time? And even then I'm going to call and reiterate. And I, at least to my knowledge, maybe my friends talk about me behind my back. And probably they do. And you know what? I don't care. That's fine. There's still my friends. They're like, oh god, the lonies kids come over. We got to do all this crap. That's fine. That's totally cool. Okay. But here's the other thing that's, it's hard. I have often had to backfill that time. Meaning, hey dude, I heard there's a sleepover this weekend. And I know you can be the only one here. You and I are going out to a movie tonight. And we're going to go eat whatever restaurant you want to go to. Yeah. And that means me and my wife might do less date nights because one of us is with one of our kids during that time. Yeah. Or hey, son, teach me how to play this, this Jurassic Park game or Star Wars game. I don't know how to do this, but I'll do this with you. Or hey, I'm going to take an extra hunt and trip with you and you're going to come with me and we're going to go camp out. Or whatever the thing is. I've got to, if I'm going to pull away social situations from my kid, I have to be responsible for backfilling that, having kids at my house. Or which I love that actually. I want kids everywhere in my house. I love having kids over. Or I'm going to have to backfill that with me personally. Or take my daughter, my son with me wherever I'm going. And I think most parents are default to know you can't do that. Well, now my kid's sitting there untethered with nothing. And that feels kind of cruel, right? No, that makes sense. But I'm going to have a few years where my kid doesn't like me and I'm okay with that. Yeah. And luckily she's truly like the sweetest child ever. And she really, I did tell her about this next one and she said, okay, so she really, and I don't think she associated it with anything to do with the last one. I think it was more just like we do, we do, truly have a crazy next day. Sure. I mean, I know I can't use that every time. So I do have to have that hard conversation at some point, but she was so sweet about it and there's no hard feelings that I can tell. Yeah. So, and I will definitely do that. Yeah, take her out and let her know, hey, this one's 100% on me. And you're right to not like me. You're right to tell your friends that I'm boring in me or blah, whatever. And if you want to ever have girls over the house, you're all in. Like, come on over and your older brother can't have any friends of whatever. And that to me is the magic is when I put this boundary down about safety, I have to backfill that boundary with opportunity. And that's, that's, I don't know, sometimes on Friday nights, I just want to collapse on the couch and watch something. I just want to be kind of a bum. And I took this away so I'm going to step in and do the next right thing as a dad or my wife as a mom and we're going to do the next hard thing and we'll do it together. And that challenges me. How am I a likable guy? Do I work on being likable so that when my son, I'm like, hey, hang out with me tonight. And he's like, all right, that's cool. Let's go to a concert. Let's go find a movie. Let's go do something. That's cool. Instead of, oh God, he's just going to lecture me all night. And, you know what I mean? So, um, but man, great, great call. I appreciate you thinking through this and waiting through the thing that I think is the worst for most appearances. Kids that don't like them. Because that like is short term. Um, especially if that like is me sitting, that not liking you is with me right next to you. Not at you, but with you. I know this is a bummer and I know I'm kind of being a buzzkill here, but I'm going to keep you safe. Thanks for the call, sister. When we come back, a woman asks, how does she make peace with just being lonely after trying to make friends for so long? This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. As we head into the new year, I want you to take an inventory of all of the stuff you're carrying, all the things you think you have to do, the things you should have done, all those past hurts and pains along with past guilt, past shame, all of it. And when the world feels heavy, when your back feels heavy from carrying all the stuff around, it's important to look in the mirror and consider setting down all of that old weight and not carrying it any further into 2026. Therapy can help you identify the heavy stuff and move forward with clarity and set it down so you can focus on the new year. If you're thinking about therapy, I recommend BetterHelp. BetterHelp has over 30,000 therapists and they're one of the leading online therapy providers in the world. They're trusted by millions. They have an average rating of 4.9 stars out of five. All of their therapy is online so it's easy to fit into your schedule. To get started, just answer a few simple questions and they'll connect you with the licensed therapist who fits your needs. And if it's not the right fit, you can change therapists at any time for no extra cost. Listen, you can't feel lighter without leaving behind what's been weighing you down. You're worth it. Go to BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash Deloney. It's got the Kona Hawaii and talk to Nicole. Hey, Nicole, what's up? Hi, hi, Dr. Deloney. How are you? I can't complain the sun is shining and there's a wonderful breeze off the ocean. How are you? It is freezing here, but I won't complain either if you won't. So that's cool. What's up? Well, I was just wondering how does one like accept loneliness in a like a mentally healthy way without giving up hope that someday they'll be able to make connections? Oh, tell me about that. For the last two years, I've been seeing a therapist and being medicated and I moved out on my own and I'm trying to grow up. How old are you? 28. 28, okay. So you've been living with your folks up until you're 26? Yes. What are you being medicated for? Depression. I'm on Lexa Pro, 5 milligrams. Were you staying at home because you had to or it was a cultural or you didn't have anywhere else to go? Like tell me about staying at home till you were 26. I had an incident when I was 21 where I didn't do very well out in the world and I became a house permit for almost six years. Okay, tell me about that. I was at a private college at the time and I had my very first panic attack and this was you know about 10 years ago. So that wasn't really normal and people didn't treat me very well. They thought I was you know, I don't know. They just thought I was really strange and I became kind of an outcast after that and it was really hard to like not be afraid of other people and When you say people, are you talking about college administrators or friends or family? Yes, students, administrators, my parents didn't really know what to do either and so I just kind of closed off from the world. Yeah, over a single panic attack. No, well yeah, it was I had to single panic attack and then I stuck around trying to stick it out, right? And I did stick it out, but I kind of people really didn't know what to do with me after that and then when I came home, it was full force panic attacks all the time and everything and Yeah, I just kind of did one thing and didn't know there. I mean, I've spent my career working with college students and not just me, but all of my colleagues across multiple institutions and walking with a college student through a panic attack is almost like student affairs 101. Like I'm both shocked that I would have a colleague across the country that would go after a student for struggling and that there would be that that bad of a response from with support resources. Well, it was a Christian college and I don't know that. I worked at several Christian colleges. Yeah, and I mean, there was the training and the resources we had were pretty remarkable, you know what I mean? It was it was it was it and maybe it's the particular and out of the word Christian means a million things to a million different people. Yeah, um, do they blame you or just tell you to pray it off or like what was the response? Yeah, they told me to pray it off and not to cause trouble. Oh God, I'm so sorry. That's okay. It's not for a long time. It's not. I mean, in that incident may have been a long time ago, but you being scared of your own body, it's panic attacks are terrifying, right? I don't know. I grew up with a chronic disease as well. What's that? What's that? I have I have Lyme disease. Okay. And so I kind of just grew up feeling odd in my body in general. So I guess it wasn't really as terrifying as it probably could have been for me. Well, but I mean, to be blamed for your body trying to keep you safe. Yeah, it's disorienting. Yeah, it is. And I mean, I'm, I mean, just talking to you for a few minutes, I don't think it started there. Maybe the, the, the firework show started for the first time when you're 18 or 19. But then not being able to trust your own body and then realizing, oh, I can't trust the people I go to church with. I can't trust my friends. I can't trust my family. I mean, that's enough to tell a body, hey, dude, we got to circle the wagons and shut the door, right? I get that. I get that. Thank you. I appreciate that. And so what happened at 26 when you were like, I got a head back out into the world and figured this thing out. I was going out with a guy and he told me, he's like, I don't know if you know this, but you have anger problems. And I was like, I do. And I realized nobody in my life, not a single person had told me. And so I started seeing a therapist. And it just turned out that I just didn't know how to handle emotions at all. I never want to regulate. And so it was kind of a journey from there. I don't really have the anger issues anymore. It's just like, oh, there's a lot of things that I realized about my upbringing. That was not healthy. And that was not normal. You have abuse in your background? No. No. No. No, it was emotional neglect mainly. Okay. So you're 28. And you're trying to find connection. You're trying to find friends. You're trying to find community. Tell me about what you mean by, should I just accept being lonely? Well, I've been alone most of my life. I don't know if it's because I'm an existential thinker. I'm dyslexic. If those are the reasons, but I've never really had a good time making connections with people where I feel like seen. I feel like I always have to alter myself in order for people to like, you know, digest me. And so let me pause right there. And normally, I would, we would tell this, I would let you, if we were just sitting down having nachos for a few hours, I would just let you go and we'd circle back. But like, I'm in a studio right now. And I am a old punk rock kid. I don't don't apologize. I'm just trying to paint a picture. I'm an old punk rock kid who also went to Sunday school who also played varsity athletics. I was a weird kid, right? I drove a Prius and also was a deer hunter. Like just a weird guy. Okay. And I'm looking through the recording glass at Ben the engineer who is world class musician and an audio engineer and he's super into magic to gathering. And I don't really have a psychology for that. And then next to him is Kelly. And Kelly is a former cheerleader who still reached the Dallas Cowboys. It God knows how. And she's a brilliant leader. And she's super old and indistregulated when it comes to her emotions. And she's just shaking her head at me. And then Nate dog over here is into all kinds of weird like dice rolling games. And he's a great dad. Like all the things right. So I here's what I'm telling you. And Alex is back over like I don't even know what Alex is into. That's how creepy that guy is. Here's what I'm telling you. I'm on a team of people who are totally different than each other. All of us are into weird stuff, loud stuff, quiet stuff. And so I guess what I want to communicate to you is you're not you don't lack friends because you're a big thinker. And you don't like friends because you're too loud or you're too quiet. Okay. And here's what I'm telling you that. If you walk into a room and every room you walk into, you think my body is a problem here. Then I want to suggest that there's a challenge with the rooms you're walking into. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Or underneath at all, I don't want you to walk through every room, every doorway for the rest of your life with the assumption I'm screwed up and broken here. So I need to squash myself and fix like and and become somebody or something I'm not put on a costume so that I can get up against the wall and fit into this room. Right? Yeah. Now the other side of that is all of us have to make concessions. Meaning there is a social world that we exist in. So there's certain rooms that I think a funny joke is hilarious. I'm not going to tell it in that room. That's okay. That's not me like not being me, bro. That's me being respectful of the room I'm in. Right? Kelly, she doesn't talk about her like her geratol and her dentures and all that in every room she's in. Right? And Ben and I have been in bands for years together. We've gone to concerts together. We've gone to comedy shows together. We've never once discussed magic the gathering because he knows I'm not ready for it yet. Right? So I tell you that to say there's both and but out of the gate, I don't think something's wrong with you. Well, I feel like you're one of the few. Well, what would it look like to begin to enter into different rooms? I do enter into different rooms. Okay. So I've looked into your show for a while. Tell me about that. I am part of a D&D group. Excellent. Nate Dogg would love you. Awesome. Okay. So you are a part of a D&D group and they look at you and say, wow, you're too much. Well, it's more like there's no a lot of interaction in terms of like personal interaction we go and it all introverts and everybody does their own thing. And at the end of the day, when we all say goodbye, it's like everybody says by to me like I don't like I'm an outsider in the group once the game's over. Tell me about another group. Tell me about it. It makes sense, but I'm I don't want to challenge you just yet. Tell me about another group you're a part of. I do Hula on my three days and like I mean, I'm not like athletic or anything. So I'm just there for fun. But it always seems like I'm there and I'm paying attention to them having fun. But somehow I just don't mix in with other people. Like I don't know if there's that's that there's clicks. It's just like everybody's at this hyping rhythm and I'm over here being like, okay, I'm just trying and it doesn't seem to be working. And what what would working be? I don't know. Being able to like talk to people during breaks and like feel like I could like I am included like I'm allowed and like because when I try it I don't know it almost feels like I intruded. Do they tell you that or do you feel that? I feel that. Okay. And I guess what I want to challenge here is if you have a body that has always not even been able to trust itself because you have a long-term chronic health condition that resulted in it trying to shut you down because it feels so unsafe, which is what a panic attack is. If you have parents that were too busy doing other stuff to even bother with their own daughter. If you learned at 25, 26, like dude, I've got a lot of feelings that are big, which by the way also allows you to really be a powerful empathetic listener, right? To feel other people hurting. Then you walking into these rooms and what a cool diverse room you're walking into. You're walking into a Dungeons and Dragons game. You're walking into an athletic thing, right? You're all kind of stuff. You're walking into a church group, whatever. The thought is it's supposed to feel a certain way. And I'm broken so I need people to reach out to me and every time I have a conversation it didn't feel like something. And so that must mean something's wrong with me. I'm out of here. Instead of recognizing, okay, I feel something that's important and the next right thing is I'm going to get three of these girls and ask them out. Yo, let's go hang out. At the end of my D&D session or in the middle of it, I'm going to be like, all right, real quick. I'm going to be all dating and just see what happens. But at some point you have to push through that feeling of, I don't belong here. And in a way, I don't want to say, think of it as you make it, but totally fake it to you make it like a super ball. I super belong here. What's scary about that? Well, because I've tried that. I've invited people out. I've invited people over to dinner when they have gatherings I go. And it, you know, if it was just like the last two years of this, then I would be like, okay, but I guess it's because it's been my whole life of trying and trying and trying. And then just tired, tired of trying. But I hear you say you're trying and you're tired of trying. The other conversation is, you got a boyfriend that loves you enough to say, Hey, I love you. And I want you to work on your anger. And you have a group of magic, the gathering wizards, like who are like, hey, come hang out to the next one. And you have a hula class that you're like, I promise you're not the only one in there feeling weird. Right. And so like you're doing these things, you're with these other groups. They're accepting you over and over again, yet you walk out every time thinking, what's wrong with me? And here's what I'm trying to ask you, is there a possibility that your your radar system isn't, isn't working right? That you are being accepted that people do like you. You do have added value. And that maybe it's not the community that's the problem. Maybe it's, dude, my radar isn't trustworthy right now. Now, too, that's a huge possibility. Okay. Because my guess is if you were just up and disappear, the magic the gathering guys would be like, dude, we finally got a girl to play with us. And now she's gone or the Dungeons Dragon's group, right? Like, oh, no, we love Nicole. Is that a possibility? Maybe, I don't know. I'm going to suggest that it is. And I guess my suggestion is, A, don't ever accept, I guess I'm just destined to a life of lonely. Social connection is easier for some than it is for others. No question about it. Like Kelly has friends with everybody. She's like, just like, she's, she's great at making friends. Great to have people around. It's awesome. I struggle with it. I'm just a weird guy. And I've had to learn over time that my default setting isn't always right. And I've had to learn, that was pretty awkward. Shitness said that, right? I also know that too. But I guess my challenge to you is is to make a commitment to yourself. To say, maybe I am worth being friends with because these other people are my friends. Maybe I am worth hanging out with because these other people want me around. They invite me. They like it when I'm here. Or maybe they don't feel like they like it, but they sure look like they do. And maybe consider, okay, my feeling o-meter, my internal compass, it's probably off from how my folks treated me, how my church community treated me. But I do have people. And then begin exhaling and saying, what does this feel like? What does peace feel like? And if you ask a bunch of people out and they say no, thinking, man, they must have a lot going on because even the Dungeons and Dragons guys like me. And I'm just not trying to run them down here. I'm not trying to run them down, but consider continuing to show up. And two years, like you've got 25 years of being told you're not enough, a couple of years of practicing. I want to tell you I think you're on the right track. I'm pretty, I'm really proud of you for saying, I'm going to step out of my parents house. I'm going to go see a professional. I'm going to start showing up to these groups. What I want to challenge you to do is just keep showing up, keep showing up. And when you say I'm tired of showing up, show up again, show up again, because I think I think your friends are glad that you're there. And I think the challenge here for you is learning to feel what that feels like. Not as electricity and a need to get out, but as a your body learning what friendship feels like. And sometimes it's boring and sometimes it's, all right, see you guys next week. And then it's going to get next week. Keep doing what you're doing because you're making some big changes. It's just it's minute by minute day by day and it doesn't feel like a big change in real time, but it really is powerful. Thanks for the call, sister. We come back. A woman asks how to handle concern that her mom is being mean to her aging father. All right, those of you watching or listening to the show right now probably fall into one of two camps. First, you're somebody who's never used a home security system. Maybe you thought it was too expensive. You think you need a degree in IT to work on it, or you don't want some random stranger drilling holes in your walls, or you're the other kind of person. You've had a security system before, but you're tired of long-term contracts. You're tired of having to buy a bunch of stuff. You don't want or need and you're really tired of these giant monthly security system bills. Listen, for both of you, Cove is for you. Cove is smart, affordable home security that you can trust, whether you're a stay at home mom with kids, or a busy traveler who wants to check in on their house when they're 5,000 miles away. Set up with Cove is totally DIY and it's way quicker than you think. And listen, this kind of clarity gives you real peace of mind. If you're a first-time home buyer, a renter, or a comparison shopper who wants more value and way fewer headaches, Cove is for you. Go to CoveSmart.com and use CoveDeloney and save up to 80% off your first order. Protect your home and the people you love with better home security. That's CoveSmart.com use CoveDeloney. Go check them out. All right, Baltimore, Maryland. Let's talk to Angie, not of Angie's list. What's up, Angie? Angie's a tough. Hi there, Dr. N. I want to tell you I appreciate the guidance you give to young parents about sleepovers. I was sharing it with someone over the weekend and my kid are older, but I just think it's great advice. Well, thank you so much. I'm grateful for you. What's up? Yeah. So my question is that my dad, my parents are older. There's an age gap between them. My dad is now 85. My mom is 15 years younger than him. He had a stroke in 2020. He was 81 at the time. Before that, the stroke, he would have never known he was 80. They're always out doing stuff and they have a garden and they're on like in a rural community and they're on like seven acres and always doing stuff. So after he had the stroke, he really started showing his age. And since then, so my mom thought in a month he was going to be better and go back to how he was and everything was going to be good. Well, obviously he's not. He didn't the biggest issue he had after the stroke is his speech. Everything else, he kind of came back, but of course, 80, not not how he was before. That's right. And she's just mean to him. She's just, she says things and she does things and and she's just she just and it's not just him. She's kind of mean to everybody, but is that new or is she always been that way? No, she's it's new for me to see her do it with him. Okay. I've seen her do it with me and my siblings and and I don't know that she she just says mean things. Like for instance, he so she had they had quote unquote chores before the stroke like he would clean out the dishwasher washer. He would make the bed or he would fold the towels and after the stroke she would she started complaining about him not helping and he had a very good stroke. I know that's how he said and so I said to be kind without yelling matter. I said mom, he's had a brain injury. Yeah. He's not the same person that he was before and I said, you know, he's he may not remember he has to do this or he meant or like she would say like she says things and this is the thing that so this is the thing that bothers me a lot is is so say things like well he won't tell me what he wants to eat so I just am not going to fix him anything and if he wants something he can go up and get it and they say mom he's like a four-year-old he he doesn't remember this stuff. He had a brain injury. Wow. And show just show push it aside and even my brother will say my brother and my sister and I we we talked about it often be like she so mean. I can't believe she does that. Why does she do that? So my question is and I appreciate that there is caregiver fatigue. So her being frustrated is right. Her being just this is my life and grieving that. Yes. Totally right. And I appreciate that. So my sister and I live two hours away. My brother lives about an hour away. We offer to come over. We offer. I mean they've got money. They could pay somebody to move the so my sister and I have this conversation. We should pay somebody to move the art form and then we're like then what are they going to do? Right. They're so healthy and able to do it. It gives them something to do until they're not able to do it then but but but the little things like like making him want lunch or making him dinner or he won't tell me what and so my husband. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. You're he married a mean lady. Right. He married a mean lady. Yeah. Make me sad to hear it does and I don't want to talk about anybody's mom. I get a lot of crap on that that I mean or on dads and I am moms and and wives and that's true. But I don't like talking about other guys' wives. It's just a thing. It's maybe it's an old Texas. I still like doing it. But your your dad married a mean lady. Yeah. Okay. And fine. He married a lady that runs him down. It's been quippin' at him for years and complaining about him for years. That's the that's the bed he chose. And now he's married to a cruel lady. Yeah. And we can't have that. Because now there's we're talking about elder abuse. You don't get to eat because I have a bad attitude. Yeah. You don't get any smile or joy because I don't have any smile or joy. That's cruelty. Yeah. But well, well, two things. I have two things to ask you about that. Number one, she doesn't do it to like she can have neighbors that come over and she's the nicest person ever. Is that normal? Well, it just means that she's chosen him as her eternal punching bag. Okay. And it's very not that's very normal for performative people. And I don't want to diagnose her. But there's some. Yeah. She's just not a nice person. So would I already know that answered at this probably. Would she then so when he first had the stroke so he had the stroke in 2020. So of course, stupid COVID, right? But the doctor had said had suggested support groups for both of them like a stroke support group and a care group covers support group. And none of those were opened during the time. And here we are five years later. Would she benefit from something like that or would it be performative? Would it just be both? Okay. Okay. And so if she would go for a year as part of a performance and that would put her around a bunch of exhausted weepy yet doing the next right thing. Wives. That'd be amazing. And maybe there'd be some collective because here's a thing. She's not going to suddenly wake up one day regardless of what kind of education she gets or some kind of training she gets. She's not going to wake up one day and be like, oh my god, his life is hell. Yeah. Every minute I'm going to try to do something to make his life a little less hell. She's not going to do that. She never has done that. Right. It's fair for you to say that because she doesn't he was an avid reader. He always had a book in his hand. I mean, always had a book in his hand was always reading. And now all of a sudden he can't. I mean, after the stroke right, all of a sudden, I got to get really careful. So I don't get choked up here. Yeah. But I'm an avid reader. Yeah. And if I had a stroke, I can guarantee you one of two things would happen the next day. My wife would get me audible and she'd set it all up. Yeah. And or she would read to me. Yes. Me and my sister have offered. But listen, listen though, you're becoming her. You should. I just said it. You by her saying he won't even tell me what she's going to get. So I'm not going to get him anything. You are saying, well, they didn't ask us to help Milan. And that's it. So we're just not going to do anything. That's interesting. So don't repeat that same pattern. Here's what you have to do. You have to be you have to forcefully insert yourself into the care of your father period. Okay. You and your siblings. And you know more than any of us me talking to you or listening, whether because some mean people are actually kind of hearted, they're just grumpy and mean. Right. And you push through that mean and they're pretty and they'll give you that shirt off their back. But they're going to complain about it the whole way. Right. Yeah. That's fine. If that's your mom and she could handle all three of her kids sitting down and saying, we can't watch this anymore. Either you make some pretty significant changes about how you feed and care and talk to our father. We're going to intervene. And if she can't hear that, which most seven year olds can't, then it's we're not going to ask. We're going to start showing up at a regular interval. And it's going to be really expensive, really inconvenient. But we're going to bring a book that dad would like. We're going to read to him till he falls asleep. We're going to give him a subscription to Audible. And we're going to upload a book form every week. Okay. Okay. That's fine. So this is going to make me cry a little. It's okay. Yeah. It was always the big strong guy. Right. Right. So it's hard to do that. It is. Is that is that weird? Is that weird or wrong? I can't find the word of me to be uncomfortable with that at first. Okay. So let me pass this along to you. Make a fist for me. Okay. And put it right in the middle of your chest. And hear me say this. There are no bad feelings. None. Okay. You can feel whatever you feel. You can be grossed out when you have to start changing his diapers in a few years. There is no bad feelings. There's just actions of character or actions that lack character. Yeah. And so you can be heartbroken as you take this pillar who was the man in your life, the rock that you watched put up with a mean lady for all those years. And yet he kept showing up and being kind. Even when he had to retreat to his books, he had to retreat to his garden just to escape her meanness. I didn't realize she was mean all I know. But if it happened to you all, it probably happened to him two X or 10 X. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. So you're allowed to be heartbroken that this pillar of strength is no more. Yeah. All that is right and good. What matters for you right now is what's your next right move? Right. And underneath all of the mean and callousness and ego and all at whatever words you want to throw out there, he was her rock too. Because she knows she can't get away with that crap with the neighbors. Right. And she is now untethered also. And that might be the compassionate way to enter into the conversation. Yeah. Okay, mom, your your rock's gone too. And he's not coming back. Yeah. And she's often I mean, she's often said, oh, you know, I'm so tired. I have one brain for two people now because I recognize everything falls on her, the doctor's appointments, the driving, the everything. And I get that. And so you have to decide you and your siblings have to decide are you in your siblings and since you're your blessed to have resources across the four of you, your parents and then y'all, we're going to hire an outside professional for some of these things. We're going to stop asking. We're going to start doing. Okay. And she and you're going to have to weather her bad attitude. It's not about her. It's about your old man. Okay. And here's the here's the the here's the exercise I want you to do on your own. Okay. Yep. I want you to when we get off the phone and it might not be right now, but when you have 10 or 15 or 20 or 30 minutes by yourself. Okay. There's not going to be any kid running in there being like, mom, can I have a snack? Like none of that. Right. Yeah. I want you to close your eyes and put yourself with a rose in your hand, dressed up in your nicest black dress at his funeral. Yeah. And are you going to wish you had of? Are you going to be so grateful that you did? Okay. Is it okay? Well, you said Celine's okay. I feel like I feel like this is that this is going to be a hard conversation, right? It's going to be a brutal conversation because you already know what's going to go. Okay. That makes me feel better. But it's less and the more siblings you have with you, the more united you'll feel. Okay. And this is not a question of permission. This is a question of this is a statement of doing. Okay. And it might be that this when when people who are mean and I'll go as far to say violent and whether violent emotionally or cruel. Sometimes getting called out escalates the behavior. Oh, you didn't think about that. So y'all are going to have to have a, oh, you're going to eat as big fancy lunch tomorrow because Angie thinks she needs to come over and save you. You're not eating nothing today, right? That could happen. So y'all also you and your siblings have to have a trigger for when we're going to make a hard phone call to local social worker. Okay. Dad's moving in with us. We're moving dad into a permanent nursing residency. Well, I know what I got to do now. Yeah. And and I don't this is me being I only have a job because most of the time these things don't go well or when they do go well, I don't hear about them very much. I anticipate in your future a very, very hard conversation that says we're moving dad into a facility. We are intervening here. Like it's reached to a point of elder abuse. He's got to eat. He's got to be taken care of. He's got to get help in the bathroom. He's got to get somebody to care for his his physical health, especially as he gets older. And by the way, 70 to 80 is very different aging than 80 to 90 because it's easy to look at an 84 year old or 85 year old and think, oh, if he's got five more years, they're going to be like the last five years. They're not. They fall off a cliff. And so we we need to need to get care sooner. And that might be in front to her ego or her little picture that she's built or whatever. I anticipate a hard conversation. Common. And so prepare yourself for that. Not to avoid it, but man, I'm going to head right through the middle of it. And again, the more your brothers and sisters are aligned with you on this, the more y'all have a team. So when this thing goes south, the conversation goes south, the actual implementation of going over there to read to him, going there and going for a quarter mile walk that takes an hour and a half. The more we do stuff like that, the more we hire out the yard work now. He's 85. The more you're going to get resistance, but we're going to have we're going to have a team. You're awesome, man. Your heart's so good. Your heart is so good. And I don't envy your next right move, but I'm it's an honor to talk to you. Thanks for the call, sister. We'll be right back. I am always always talking about sleep. Why? Cause it matters. I have struggled with sleep issues for years. And when I don't sleep, I'm impatient. I'm distracted. I eat a bunch of nonsense food that I'm not even hungry for. And I'm not the dad, the husband or the friend or the co-worker that I want and need to be. And this is why I'm super jazz to tell you about something that has truly helped me sleep better. Beams nighttime dream powder. I use it. My friends that are professional athletes use it. My wife uses it. I'm telling everybody about dreams nighttime sleep powder. Why? Because it works. And it's delicious. Dream is a blend of science-backed ingredients like magnesium, theonine, a peginin, rishi, and melatonin that help you fall asleep faster and stay asleep deeper and longer. I love all their flavors, but my go-to is sea salt caramel mixed with some almond milk before bed. It's awesome. Beam has no weird chemicals and here's the best part. I wake up sharp, not groggy. Right now, Beam is offering up to 50% off their best-selling dream powder with my codeloni at shopbeam.com slash deloni. This is the lowest price they've ever offered and it's only for my audience. Go to shopshop.com slash deloni and use codeloni and start sleeping better right now. All right, Kelly, something cool happened. Yes. So back in the spring, we had a call our own name Ashley and she was trying to figure out how to become the fun mom. She said that she was the one that was always. Remember this one? Yeah. So she sent in an email and some pictures, which I'm also going to include. Okay. This is great. She says, hi, all. I wanted to share an update from our call this spring for your cool crap that happened segment. After our phone conversation, I told my husband about your suggestion to intentionally schedule family fun activities. His face lit up immediately because he knows how much I have struggled in this area. During our kid's spring break, I took them out for a full day of fun. We went to David Buster's and before we even left the house, I told my son he could have a coke, which is a big treat for him. We played games, talked and laughed all afternoon. They spotted a human claw machine and ended up winning a giant inflatable alien and a banana. On the way home, we made a couple of quick stops and let the kids each pick out something small. In the car, our son announced that it was the best day ever. It felt so I felt so much relief to be able to simply enjoy the moment instead of worrying. It's a day our kids will remember forever. We're also a big music family. I used to put in my earbuds while cleaning, which really pulled me away from everyone. Now I connect my phone to a speaker so the whole house can hear. It's led to spontaneous singing, laughing and dancing. Little moments that I didn't realize I was missing. Recently, after a very stressful day at work, I walked into find the living room completely covered in playing cards. Instead of giving up, getting upset, I asked the kids what they were building. It turned into a whole conversation about their creation. It hit me later that my first thought wasn't about the mess. It was about how much fun they were having. Yeah, dude, that's awesome. During our call, you pointed out that I tend to take on all the responsibility for our home and family and that I might not be letting my husband help shoulder the load and you were absolutely right. I've opened up more to him about where I'm struggling and now I come home more often than not to laundry already started or the dishwasher emptied. That one conversation has had a lasting impact on our family. While I still have a long way to go, your words continue to influence us in such a positive way. Thank you truly for helping us change the way our family lives and connects. P.S. Kelly, I'm sorry this is so long. You truly are a rock star. You always add those things. Nobody ever says that but good for you. Dude, that is awesome. And hey, okay, I'm in the middle of a big marriage project now. I'm keeping under wraps but I'm working on it now. That is something that has come up over and over in the data which is there's millions of husbands who want to do the next thing and they honestly, and this sounds like an excuse, they don't know. And if they do it, they don't do it just right or whatever. And so being able to be a spouse who comes home and says, all right, I need to relinquish from the control here, which means the laundry may not be done as I imagined it in my head, but it's going to get done. Would you help or the dish, the cut may be put on the bottom shelf in the dishwasher, but you know what? It's going to be freaking clean. It's going to end up upside down in the wrong cabinet, but it'll get put away. That's awesome. That's amazing. Good shout out to him. Shout out to her. This whole call makes me super happy, man, because the kids are going to win. Their marriage is going to win. And I love it. I love it. I love it. Good call. And tell you a rock star. Boy, that cost you something. Like Keith Richards, like, see, there it is. An old, old, but a rock star nonetheless. He can still jam. He can still jam. Love you guys. Bye.