34: Ep. 33 - Ellen Rogin | Journey Through Finance and Spirituality

Are you really buying a car online on AutoTrader right now? Really? I can get super specific with dealer listings and see cars based on my budget. You can really have it delivered. Or pick it up. Mommy, look! I think your kid is walking up the slide. Really? AutoTrader. Buy your car online. Really. Hi, this is Alex Kanshowitz. I'm the host of Big Technology Podcast, a longtime reporter and an on-air contributor to CNBC. And if you're like me, you're trying to figure out how artificial intelligence is changing the business world and our lives. So each week on Big Technology, I bring on key actors from companies building AI tech and outsiders trying to influence it. Asking where this is all going, they come from places like Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, and plenty more. So if you want to be smart with your wallet, your career choices, and meetings with your colleagues and at dinner parties, listen to Big Technology Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast, your backstage pass to the corporate jungle. I'm your host, Jim Allstott, and here, industry titans step up to the mic, sharing their epic journeys. We're hitting the high notes and the low notes of their careers, creating a symphony of success. This isn't just another interview show, it's where truth bombs are dropped and secrets are revealed. So grab your conductor's baton because who knows, this just might help you compose the next huge hit of your career. Are you ready? Let's go. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Drop the Needle Podcast. I'm your host, Jim Allstott, and I'm thrilled that you decided to join us. We're at the beginning of a new year. 2025 has begun, and man, are there a lot of questions out in the world. Our guest might just be able to shed some light on the questions many of us have. We have a special treat in store for you today. Today's guest is Ellen Rogan, a New York Times bestselling author who combines Wall Street wisdom with an extraordinary gift. She can intuitively connect with the energy of money. With her CPA, CFP, and decades of financial experience, Ellen went from running a successful wealth management firm to helping people worldwide unlock their prosperity potential through what she calls messages from money. I'm sure you've seen her on CNBC, ABC, NPR, and in Oprah's Magazine, and now she's here to share her unique insights with us. Please welcome the woman who's revolutionizing how we think about wealth and abundance, Ellen Rogan. Hey, Ellen, how are you? Great, Jim. I'm so excited to be here with you. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to see you today. Can you do a solo favor? Can you just take a moment and let everyone know a little bit about you and your background? I started as a more traditional advisor first in public accounting, so I have a CPA. Then I was a financial advisor for close to 30 years, running my own firm. And all through that time, what I was most fascinated with was how people made decisions around money. And to me, that was the most interesting thing, how people thought about their money and how they used it to make decisions. And so about six years ago, I left my firm and now I spend my time, as you mentioned, I do work that I think of as intuitive money readings with people all over the world. And I also do a lot of speaking and still do work in financial services in terms of doing work with advisors to help them impact their clients in more transformational ways. Awesome. Yeah, I know you are a busy person. That is for sure. I do know that. I want to dive right in to some questions. And I've been very fortunate to see a few of your workshops and some of your talks that you've done. And I highly, highly recommend them for anybody who's interested or actually, if you're when you're in their area, make a point to go see Ellen. Okay, so here's some questions for you. In your journey from traditional CFP work to financial intuitive, what was the most humorous or awkward moment you experienced while developing your unique approach? Well, I would say it was awkward and humorous. And I didn't even know I had this intuitive approach until this experience happened for me. I was at a workshop with other speakers and coaches and the evening program, the facilitator was doing work with us around intuition. And the second round that we did where you were paired with a partner, the theme was money. And I was paired with a gentleman named James. And the way this activity worked was that I had my hands on his shoulders standing behind him. And when he turned around, he was thinking about something that was going on in his financial life. And I was to deliver a message for him. And he turns around and out of my mouth comes, fuck you for thinking you can't be spiritual and have me in your life. Like, I don't even want to be around you. As if I was talking for money. And James goes, oh my gosh, Ellen, he pulls out from his shirt, pendant, and he said, this is the patron saint of poverty. And one of my clients gave me this, takes it off. And then I stand next to him, grab his hand, and we start walking together and said, oh, now I want to be with you. This whole thing was over. And I'm like, what just happened? Like, I like swearing, but I wouldn't do it in a professional setting. With someone I really didn't know very well. And when swear at someone like that. And I think what happened was that money was talking through me in a way that woke me up to realize that wasn't me talking, because there's no way I would have done that. And I actually think it was a wake up call for James as well. Because after that, I started to pursue and really train more of and hone my intuitive abilities. But I hadn't seen him for like three years after that. And we were both speaking at a meeting and I said, would it be okay if I share that story? He goes, oh my gosh, yes, everything in my business changed after that night. And he even looked different. His business grew and was really incredible and very affirming to me. Because I didn't really know that, that that had happened. And just so the viewers and listeners know, I don't swear at people anymore when I do readings for them. They're all affirming and consistently have people feeling better about their relationship with money. And I can attest to that. I've been on the city side of that with you. And it's definitely enlightening and very informational and comforting too, I might add. So I would say that you've really bridged the worlds of traditional finance and intuitive guidance. What was the most surprising resistance? Or it could even be support that you encountered when you first started talking about messages from money. It was my internal resistance, Jim. Because here I am coming from a very credentialed background in what I perceived as a very traditional industry, financial services. I still do a lot of my work in that world. And I was afraid that if people knew I did this, they would think I was weird or I was weirdo. And that that wouldn't be credible. And for the first year, maybe two years, my messages from money page was hidden on my website. Like I only told certain people about it. And it was all word of mouth. And so it was a shift in identity for me. First of all, it was a big shift in identity for me just to leave that business, which I didn't expect it was going to be as challenging as it was. And what I came to know is that the more I was open to, hey, I do this, the more I realized that people that were interested would lean in and go, oh, what is that? I'm really curious, sir. I want to have a session. And people that it wasn't for them, they just almost wouldn't even hear me. I've been in front of groups where I've done training for like uber wealthy people men. That I said, I talked to money and money talks back to me. And I'll often add, and if this is just a helpful metaphor, we all have a relationship with money, but they invited me back. So there's something that I would say, and I've talked to our mutual friend, Jen Weigel, about this, that a lot of times it's our own internal talk that we have around us stepping into this more expansive spiritual, if you will, identity that really holds us back versus feedback, at least from my standpoint that I've gotten from other people. Well, that seems to be the way it always is, because we're our own worst critics, right? So we're the first in line to beat ourselves up with that sort of thing. And so one of your, you said highly credentialed and yes, CPA in and of itself. Very difficult. CFP. Yes. Same. But you have an MBA from New York University Stern School of Business. That's something too. Do you get any pushback or raised eyebrows from the folks that you went to school with there? I would say, well, no, I haven't actually gotten pushback from anybody. That's wonderful. Like I, and I think it's because the way that I approach this is really in a grounded way. Like I've done sessions for people that haven't seen any other kind of practitioner, this isn't the world that they're in. And what I notice is when money talks through me and the way I do that is through journaling, the message that comes through is one that can be received by the person I'm talking with. Absolutely. So I sometimes a meditation comes through for people. Sometimes it's very practical. Like, hey, have you and your partner done any estate planning? Now, because of my background, I speak as a business owner, as a former financial advisor. And so I bring in the grounded part of this because here's what I know. We live in a material world and our actual actions with money, how we are in our business, how we talk about it matters as much as our mindset and our relationship with money. And so I think that that combining those two is actually really helpful in the realm of money because it is a material thing as well as an energetic force. I know that I firmly believe the energy that surrounds or is money. I'm a big believer in that. So I'm curious. When you went from, you know, let's just call it like in the box financial planning thinking and then kind of made that switch to the intuitive financial guidance. Was there ever a time that when the intuitive piece completely contradicted conventional financial wisdom and it turned out to be right? Um, what an interesting question. I would have to really think about that because I trust it so much. You know, the times when I don't trust it, that's where I feel like I've made a mistake. Right. At the beginning, I would get, I remember I was doing a message for someone and at the end of the messages, I always share a money mantra for people. And one that came through was something about dancing with money and money wanted to do the tango or dance with this person. And I'm like, that is so stupid and that can't be right. And I'm judging it and I actually said to the person like, well, this is the first one I came up with, but here's the other one. And they go, no, I love dancing. It's perfect for me. That's fantastic. Every time that I am, uh, questioning it, I come back and say, no, let's just trust that. Message that's coming through and it seems to really serve people. And that I get in the way of the messages when I'm starting to think about it too much. Well, that sounds, well, that makes complete sense to me because I know that, and I'll just speak for myself. I have a tendency to over intellectualize or process something. And it's like, no, no, no, no. It's like you talk yourself out of it and it just keeps coming back and he's like, no, no, you should trust that. And I, uh, I guess I'm just not there yet. I just, uh, there's no way around it. I'm just not there yet, but that's, that's awesome. That's, that's, I like to dance. Well, I think it's for all of us. It's, it's for all of us to practice that. And especially if we're lucky enough that the message keeps coming back and I've been doing my best in my business to lean into that more. And when I have something that keeps coming to mind, um, so last, the beginning of last summer, my book had messages from money had been out, I don't know, six months. And I kept hearing this thought like where you should get cards done. You should make cards. And so I, it first thought like, oh, I just did this whole book. Do I really need to do that? And, and then I heard it so loud and clear. I ended up coming up with these, um, 20 talks cards. Yep. And there, yeah, there's 50 questions around having bigger, better money conversations. And I didn't do what I typically do after being in business as many years, if I had like run the projections and think, does this really make sense? Cause it was an investment in time and money. And I was like, no. And they've been so helpful for people and taken off and brought, um, other speaking engagements to me. And so I'm doing my best that when I have those recurring thoughts that just feel like true, they're not negative thoughts. There are suggestions that I'm leaning into them. And that's, that's fantastic. And I think you hit it on the head. I had, uh, Gail Alexander on, um, an episode that'll be released actually Thursday. And we talked about that and it becoming a practice where you have to start to trust it and it's baby steps, right? You know, it doesn't have to be this, you know, monumental thing where you're making these bold predictions or proclamations. It could just be the little things and you go, Oh yeah, well, that was right. Until you start to trust yourself enough that you go, yeah, I'm hearing that right. Just go with it. And I think it's an incredible gift. I also think it, and this is just me, your delivery of the information is absolutely fantastic. I love it. It is, um, it's real information. It's not something that's so esoteric or wild that you, you know, that's far fetched. I, I'm not going to use that. I'm not going to even your, your cards. Great ways to think about things that might be on your mind or in your life that you have been kind of stuck on and it gives you an opportunity to process that out with those journal prompts or those prompts to write through it. So it's, it's fantastic. I just, I love it. I, I love your, your books too, which is right here. I've got that one and of course your other one picture your prosperity and I've got that right there. But, um, so a lot of times we hear about blocks or money blocks, right? What's maybe the most unusual money, let's call it a superpower you've discovered in dealing with a client that they didn't even know they had. I did a session with a woman who didn't, I asked a questionnaire before people come in and a lot of times people give me lots and lots of information. I find that helpful. So I focus on what they want. She basically said, I want to have a better relationship with money or I want to know what money has to say with me. So I had nothing when she, which is fine. And it turned out that her session, she was a brilliant person with this very deep technical background and left a job in technology because it was not healthy for her and she wasn't being treated well. And she has been an investor in real estate and certain stocks and had phenomenal success and didn't trust it. And was, I mean, really gifted in this area and I felt so good because it was clear that money was like, whoa, you have an exceptional skill here. Every, and she said every time I listened to my intuition, even though it didn't logically make sense and ended up being great for my family in terms of the financial decision. So I think that was, um, I think that was a great opportunity for me to get into the industry. So I think that was, um, one of the few times I saw that and felt really good that I could have her feeling better about that. She could actually, I told her this, if you ever wanted to teach people this skill, that could be a whole nother business for you. I don't know that she was interested in doing that. That's cool. That's very cool. So that wasn't really a block. It was a gift. But the block for her was her doubt that that was actually even a good thing. That makes, that makes complete sense. Again, not trusting your intuition at all, because sometimes it just seems like it's too easy that the answer is just come and, oh, I must have made that up. I must have made that up, but that's, that's pretty interesting. You know, as far as, um, staying along those lines of blocks, do you have a couple of key things that you might be able to share with everyone to help change their relationships with money? A wonderful place to start in thinking about your relationship with money is to think about it as an actual relationship. So if money was like a romantic relationship for you, uh, how would you be showing up? You know, we answer from Morpheus money all the time by saying like, oh, don't outlive your money or make your money work hard for you. But we don't tend to think of how we are in relationship with it. So if you were in a romantic relationship with money, how would you be showing up? Not just how you want money to show up for you. So are you a trusting, loving, caring partner? Or perhaps you want someone else to just take care of it? Like here, you take care of my husband or partner for me. I really don't want anything to do with it. Um, I had, I gave a workshop last summer for some business leaders in Chicago and a woman there said, you know what? I have a promiscuous relationship with money. Like I basically wanted there when I want it. And otherwise I don't really pay attention to what's going on. Money booty call. Yeah, booty call with her money. That's funny. That's very funny. But that may be a great place for people to start. Like how are you showing up? And would you, is that a good partnership? Are you doing your part? Right. That's awesome. Yeah. So if you could instantly download one money related insight into everyone's brain, what would it be and why? Money tells me all the time that it doesn't want people to worry about it. We're brought up in our culture to feel like worrying about money is actually doing something productive. And I'm not saying don't take care of it, but you don't have to have the worry part of it. Because what, and studies have shown this when people are really freaked out about money, their backs are up against the wall, your IQ actually drops. So you're unable to make good financial decisions. So there are challenging things that happen for people. I'm not just saying sit on your meditation pillow chanting, ohm, waiting for the universe to provide. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is you want to take smart action and come from a place of peace with that so that you can, it was what we were talking about before, with intuition, you can hear your own good intentions. Because when we're spinning like, oh my God, what if we go into another recession and what if like there's wars and there's the economy's trouble and we have another 2008. Right. Okay. Right now, what are we dealing with? And even if that is the case, because stuff happens, the world is economies are cyclical. When you can come from the best you can, a place of peace and calm, you're going to be able to find your way out much better than someone who's freaking out. Right. It just seems like you're pouring gasoline on the fire then if you're trying to make those types of important, we'll just call them important decisions at that point. And you can't. Especially when you just mentioned when you're in that complete stressed out freaked out mode to be able to expect to come up with an educated decision on something. I mean, doesn't sound like it's going to happen really. Yeah. And it feels natural, right? Well, like, of course I'm going to worry about money. Well, you know, it's not helping you. And could you make a good decision without the worry? So that's a skill for people to have who've spent their whole life angsting about money is finding ways to lower that stress level. Yeah. And that's a whole belief system too, right? When we're kids and, you know, I remember my dad saying all this money doesn't grow on trees. Money doesn't grow on trees, you know? One of those things and yeah, it's just so deeply ingrained in you that it does take some time to change those beliefs and work through those issues. And I think in your book, especially because you have exercises that you can do and I think that that's very, very helpful for people as well as if you want something that's even faster to book a session with you, that would be a lot faster to do that. But seriously, this is so cool that you have so many tools in there. It is a practice because we are all, we develop our attitudes and beliefs about money before our parents realize we're developing them if they're conscious. And we don't realize how they truly affect all of, they being that our beliefs truly affect all of our financial decisions. And most of the time we think like, oh, if I was, if I just learned a little bit more, I'm not saying you shouldn't learn more. And if I was just making a rational decision, people are rarely rational when it comes to money decisions, then everything would be fine. But we're operating out of our subconscious so much of the time, the majority of the time and the some of the helpful work is around taking some of these unconscious, unexamined beliefs about money and move them to the forefront. Because often it doesn't have to be years and years of therapy to get rid of disaligned beliefs. Sometimes it's just shining light on them and going, well, that doesn't even make any sense. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. A thought came to mind when you were talking about those, those deep seated beliefs. And they, they, they don't make sense. I mean, so I was thinking about it. Everybody says that money is one of the greatest factors in divorce or causes of divorce. You would think that in today's society where we have so much information at our fingertips, I guess after I started to say that, I guess it could swing both ways, right? When you have so much information, depending upon where you're getting that information, it could send you into a spiral and a, you know, a, you know, a fear frenzy, if you will. But I was originally going to say you, you think that with all the information that's available and all the people that are out there that we have quite literally at our fingertips to, to reach out to, there wouldn't be that, those problems or that, that stress. But it, it still is one of the biggest causes of divorce or reasons for divorce. I don't, I don't get it, I guess. Well, that's because it's, you, you said it yourself before we started this train of conversation is that because we have these beliefs operating in the background that aren't examined or aren't logical. And if you have a certain money upbringing and have a certain set of truths that you've internalized and your partner has a different set of truths, and if they don't compliment each other or sometimes they butt up against each other, that can be a big issue, right? So if someone's a really big worrier and they feel like the other person doesn't pay any attention or someone's a really big spender and the other person's saver because they're so afraid, we can see how that can conflict. And Jim, people don't talk about money. That's the other reason I developed the money talks cards. And you would think that people getting married would spend a lot of time talking about what it was like growing up around money or what they believe. And that's just not the case. 67% of people don't talk about money with anyone, even though they know that it can bring generational wealth, that it's a good thing to talk about money. Fidelity did a study and 42% of spouses don't know how much money their partner makes. Oh, wow. Almost half have no idea. This is not talked about. You know, and I can, I can relate to that. Because my wife and I have differing beliefs on money. Neither is right or neither is wrong. You know, they're just our beliefs on money. But sometimes it can, it can bring out some, some real feelings, you know, and, and it becomes uncomfortable to the point where I mean, again, I'll just speak for myself. Where I don't even really want to bring up the topic of money with her. Because of everything that she brings with that. And again, I get it. I totally get it. But it'd be nice, I guess, to be able to, to discuss these things without it having such an emotional charge. And I know you're not a marriage counselor or anything like that. But if there's some insights that you could give to people out there that maybe that is a point of contention in the relationship and how to go about communicating that topic of money. Yeah, I like to think about sometimes if we're talking about the relationship with money, money can be like the mother-in-law in the relationship. Like maybe you all get along great with her, but maybe it's like causes conflict. Sometimes it's helpful to have a third party involved. Like I had clients when I was a financial advisor where the husband's profession was actually, one of them ran a mutual fund, someone else was on the board of a mutual, like clearly had credentialed background. And the wife was very smart and professional, but with a different background. And I'm convinced that part of the reason they brought me in was to help facilitate the conversation. Because, you know, we can be impatient or judgy if someone's not understanding or we feel like they're not understanding the point that we're trying to make. And people can be very judgmental or very appreciative where someone else is at with money and some people are very engaged and some people are very disconnected. And so if you have someone who is not active in their management with money and whether they're judgy or appreciative and someone who's very controlling, that's a combo that doesn't always mix. Or they just allow the other person to just manage everything and not pay attention. And that's not a healthy way to do it. Right. Right. Now I could see that. I was just curious about it with today's information that we have available and everything. One last question for you before we get to the musical questions. I mentioned at the beginning of the show that we started the new year. We're now in 2025. Is there a message money has for us? Is there a message money has for us for this year? That it's all around growth, meaning if things work out great or if there's challenges that are up, it's not that you're being punished or if you made a decision you wish you didn't. It's all about learning for the next decision. And I'm not, my intuitive abilities doesn't go into predicting markets or economies, but we know things go up and down. And I think back about one of the first messages from money I did for someone was a woman who was a health coach. And during the 2008 recession, she owned a bunch of gyms that I don't remember if she went bankrupt, but they failed. And during that next 10 years, she started training people online and had all these videos. Well, COVID hit. Do you think that was a skill that was helpful? She was like way ahead of the curve. And so looking back, then her business really took off. So that failed, if you will, business that happened in 2008 led to fertile ground for her to prosper down the road. And I think that's a very good way to think about things. Yeah. No, I love that. And I think that that is a wonderful way to look at things that there are no failures. It's a learning process. So that's very cool. Okay. Well, as anyone can tell you who has listened to the podcast before, this is the section where I asked the guests some musical questions. And as I mentioned regularly, music is the tire that binds. And I believe everyone has a soundtrack that accompanies their life if they just take a moment to think about it. So are you ready for the musical questions? Do my best. You're all right. All right. What was the first song you fell in love with on the radio? Or one that you can remember saying, oh, I can't wait to hear that one again. Okay. It's going to date me a lot. Because it was the Partridge family. Yes. And listening to David Cassidy singing. And I was thinking about the Partridge family album, which I probably still have somewhere. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And then if we fast forward a bit from that, it was probably Carol King's tapestry album. I danced all through middle school and high school. And I remember being in my room, having my record player on dancing to Carol King's songs. That's in my room. Choreography. Beautiful dances. Oh yeah, that's awesome. Okay. So I'm going to go back to the Partridge family. So was it, I think I love you. Well, what am I so afraid of? Yeah. Exactly the song, which I was not going to sing before we started taping. We talked about how I do not really sing in public. Don't make me Jim or I will never come back on your show. But, um, yeah. Yeah. And I probably could know most of the words to that song because I listened to it so many times. Oh yeah. Yeah. I had some of those records growing up that had that a little orange phonograph that I, I wore the records out by listening to those songs over and over. And I get it where now, you know, being a parent, you go, not that song again. But I tried to refrain from doing that because I got it all the time when I was growing up for my parents. Don't let's turn that off. Anyway, did your family have a song that everyone would just belt out on road trips or vacations when you're growing up? Or it could even be when you were starting the family of your own. No, but I remember teaching my dad like who Jim Croce was and, and James Taylor, I would quiz him when I'd be in the car with him. So do you know who this is? No, we came from a family with no musical abilities. And so I always think like when I'm at a wedding and someone stands up to sing like the groom or the bride, I'm like, I get embarrassed for them. And I realize no people have talent. I just keep thinking of my husband or me like, and sadly our kids don't, they appreciate music. They all do. But in terms of being able to perform it, we're good at other things. Heck yeah. I know, and I had even said this to you that anybody can sing. I don't think that that's necessarily the case when it comes to playing an instrument. But I do think people can sing. It's just a matter of proficiency or how good or comfort. Because we'd even talked about it there when you, you're someplace and they have karaoke night and somebody goes up there and starts belting it out and they're giving it their all, you know, just so into it. And you're like, they really should not be doing this right now, but they don't care. They're just out there belting it out. And that's kind of cool. What was your favorite song you and your friends would belt out in your senior year of high school? Well, I interest my favorite song. I don't know if it was my friend. Well, the Bee Gees were probably those songs. However, one of my favorite songs is a pure prairie league song, Amy. Oh, yeah. And I love that song. And we named our daughter Amy. So I think that he had some factor in that, which I don't know if I've even actually ever made that connection before right now. That's awesome. I love that. Very cool. Anyway, anyway, there was a connection there. And I like that. Did your musical taste change after high school when you were in college? Uh, I, you know, if I give a general answer to that, because I like dancing so much, it's songs that are fun to dance to. So like, I think this was after college, but like love shack, just something that feels fun to dance to, which love it. Yeah. And that's something that I'm realizing in the last few years that I want to bring back more of, because I mean, now we're starting to go to friends, kids, weddings and things. But I don't have that many opportunities to dance like I used to. So that's a goal of mine is to do more dancing because I really, it, alivens me. It just makes me happy. That's so cool. I'll tell you a B 52s, you know, they do also do Rock Lobster, that song, right? So I had a patented move. I actually had a few of them when it came to the B 52 songs. I would do like the shovel and start the bow and arrow. And then I mean, you know, the sprinkler and yeah, that was, but it's true. Sadly, it's true where, you know, you're a dancer and it didn't matter to, that was one of those instances where it didn't really matter. Bunch of my friends and I would just do that and just laugh and have a good time. So it's awesome. I like that. Now, do you have any songs that really get the energy flowing, those positive juices flowing so that you can go out and crush the day? No, I have realized, especially because the news is, I don't like to have the news on, but sometimes I feel like I need to know what's going on in the world. And the other day it was just down in the morning and my husband and I weren't in a great mood. And I ended up turning on some Motown, Motown songs that are fun. I also love like Bruno Mars or anything that is, that you feel like you want to get up and dance. Dance, right, right. And I do realize how it's such a great energy shifter. And I don't think I've been conscious of that until more recently. That's great. Yeah, it's that whole frequency changes with its vibration. So you have your frequency and your tempo and everything makes a big difference with, I'll give you a great example as far as that's concerned. So Dave Grohl, the Foo Fighters lead singer, Nirvana drummer, he was talking about, they realized what was going to be a hit song and what wasn't based on the bounce of people in the crowd. So he said, if it was boom, boom, boom, it wasn't going to happen. It had to be boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So they were just popping up and down and damned if he wasn't right. But that's all about frequency and it's about the rhythm and everything else. And how impactful that is on us. So the fact that you said that is 100% accurate. So I have some guilty pleasure songs on my playlist. Do you have a guilty pleasure song, like something that you wouldn't want anybody else to know was on your playlist? I don't know if it's guilty pleasure, but I think about my running playlist, although I haven't been running in a while, I'm going to start again. I have some new hardware in my body that'll help me run a little bit more. But even things like the Rocky song or YMCA or just something that is, has that kind of beat that can help me feel like I'm running and like dancing while I'm running. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. I have, so I put together workout playlists, right? And it all depends because there's some that I do for, I put a playlist together for weight training, then I'll put a playlist together for aerobic activity on the elliptical, right? And I can't run. I've got two fake hips and a fake knee. So it's like out of the question. I don't even know that I could get out of the way of a speeding car. Certainly I'd be in trouble if a bear was chasing me, but everybody else around me would be safe. Just let me take care of that for everyone. But I do that too. I'll put together that playlist, and it's usually so I can get the tempo of where I want the elliptical to be. And then I'll figure out how long I'm going to be working out, and then I'll have that cool down period where I'll bring it down and almost force myself to slow it down and recover. So yeah, I totally get that. Is there a song that you believe could positively change the way people think or feel about the world around them if they just listen to it? There's so many songs, but the one that's popping to my mind is for all Williams happy. Oh, yeah. Like imagine if all of us had our happy songs playing in our mind all the time. Like that would be a really good antidote to all the sadness and stress and discord and separation that's happening in the world. Yeah. That's, and as soon as you said that the song is just going through my head, I had it immediately. That's that's one of those songs though, you know, it's that really is one of those songs that just gets you going. Now, sometimes there are songs that you hear that hit so close to home that they can really stop you in your tracks. Like it could be the lyrics of the song as if they were written specifically for you or by you. Do you have a song like that? Well, interestingly, and I didn't realize this about me till it was almost an issue with my husband because he sent me a song. He goes, I want to listen to this with you and I'm listening and I'm like, yeah. And then I like my mind left. I have to really try hard to hear the words of a song. I tend to hear the beat or want to dance to it, but I don't, I think it must be a way my brain is wired like I don't typically do that. So I don't even think I can answer your question, Jim. And that's totally fine. And I'm not surprised by that listening to what really lights you up is the beat and the tempo of music. So you can have body movement and that body movement is really what ignites everything for you from what I'm hearing. So that's, it's really kind of cool. Do you have an all time favorite song? Like it's like your number one song? Well, now I'm going back to my all time favorite artist, which is not your question. No, that's fine. But it's Madonna. And I think it's because I'll tell you why it's Madonna. So a, a lot of great songs. Be great dancer. See, I saw, I don't remember the movie, um, desperately seeking Susan. Yes. But I was, when I saw it, I was in public accounting with this, um, feeling like, oh my gosh, I have this boring, uh, occupation, but I don't feel like that. So she was an alter ego for me. I think if I look through my duster here, I still have a postcard of Madonna in that kind of 80s, whatever that look was. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And I think it's because I, she was bucking up against that image. And I also love the way that she, and there's lots of artists that are doing this now, but she really kept reinventing herself. Oh yeah. And, uh, so that would probably be, yeah, my all time favorite artist and concert. Wow. So the image that popped into my mind were those lace fingerless gloves and the little, so yeah, I know, I know what you're, you're talking about. And that was that material girl crazy for you, um, time frame that that was going on. And she really has, gosh, she's been around for so long. Now that you, you mentioned that, holy cow. She's been around and she has reinvented herself. I don't know how many times with Vogue and everything else. She's, she's quite interesting. That's, that's really kind of neat. Well, it's just about time to cue the music for today's episode, but don't forget to like, comment and subscribe to the drop the needle podcast to stay up to date on our latest episodes. I'd also like to take a moment to thank everyone again for tuning in today. And I hope you enjoyed this episode of the drop the needle podcast. I'd also like to thank our very special guest, Ellen Rogan. And you can reach out to Ellen through her website, which is www.ellenrogin.com. Ellen, do you have anything coming up that you'd like people to be aware of? I don't have any programs that are up. If people want to learn more about my cards, they can go to Ellen Rogan.com forward slash money talks or messages from money.com. If that's interesting for them. And yeah, I tend to hang out on social on LinkedIn because I'm still in the more professional realm of things. So, and that's where I'm kind of most comfortable so they can find me there as well. And your podcast, by the way, I was listening the other day. You had a young lady on, I believe she was from Australia. The accent was an Aussie accent. And she, it was very interesting because my seeing you, and I know we're a little off topic here as we're closing out, but my experience with you was much different than that. Even though in the background, your books are right there, messages from money and everything else. And I'm like going, this is just like straight, there was financial talk. There wasn't that spiritual component that you and I met through. And it was, I found it interesting. And I have to say, I listened to the whole thing. So it was obviously interesting enough for somebody who is not a financial professional to stay tuned. I thought it was awesome. And I highly recommend that too. Yeah. So that's a live stream, which usually you can find on my LinkedIn profile. I work a lot with people in financial services. So I try to bring in guests that expand how they typically think about their businesses. And I think that was Lisa Greenfield talking about branding. Yes, yes, yes. It was. Who's awesome. And I met her through doing messages from money kind of work. She was referred by a friend of mine in Australia. I have a lot of Aussie and New Zealand clients. They're very open to this type of thing there, but she is fabulous at branding work and having people get clear on their uniqueness. But yeah. So I used to have both parts of my life be very bifurcated. Here's my financial stuff. Here's my spiritual stuff. And now I think it's just, I'm trying to just be Ellen. And there's both sides of me. And I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I agree with that, by the way. And not that it matters, but I do agree with that. And I love listening to you talk. As a matter of fact, you talked about wanting that, throwing it out there to the universe that you wanted to go to Australia. And one of your talks that I was able to see. And that was really a neat thing too. And so it's no wonder that you have that connection, that deep connection with the folks over there. So that's pretty cool. And that was to do a financial talk. So there we go. And I'm anxious to go back. If any of you listeners are planning conferences in Australia and want to bring me over as a speaker, that'd be awesome. Perfect. Just throw that out. Yeah. You can throw it out there all you want. That'd be great. All right. So I invite everyone to head over to our show notes where there's going to be a link for the playlist from today's episode, as well as Ellen's bio and her website. All right, my drop the needle posse like Billy Joel says from the highs to the lows to the end of the show. This is the end of our show. Until next time, this is Jim. I'll stop wishing you infinite health and happiness and the perfect playlist for your life. Thank you again for being the best part of us. Catch you next time. Hi, this is Alex Kanshawits. I'm the host of Big Technology podcast, a long time reporter and an on air contributor to CNBC. 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