Did Mark Fall for Wuthering Heights — or Run Screaming Across the Moors? With Emerald Fennell

Earmark. What do the films Die My Love, I'm still here and it was just an accident all have in common.

0:00

This is a setup for another of those terrible laughter lift jokes, isn't it? Which I thought we'd done with for another week.

0:06

No, this is no laughing matter.

0:11

Okay, go on.

0:13

Well, not only are they some of your favorite film recommendations from last year, but they're also all films you'll be able to stream anywhere in the world when you travel abroad, even in geo locked territories.

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How's that then?

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And it only applies to those three films you named. That seems odd.

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Episode is brought to you by mubi, the global film company that champions great cinema. From iconic directors to emerging auteurs, there's always something new to discover with mubi. Each and every film is hand selected so you can explore the best of cinema streaming anytime, anywhere.

1:01

When we say the best, we mean the best because now streaming on MUBI from January 23rd in the UK is the film that I said was my favorite film of last year, which is Die My Love, the new film by Lynne Ramsey. It has an extraordinary central performance by Jennifer Lawrence, but also I think Robert Pattinson is brilliant in it. I love all of Lynne Ramsey's films, but I think that Die My Love is just a further example of what a brilliant poet of cinema she is. And that is available streaming on MUBI from January 23rd in the UK and it is wonderful. It was my favorite film of last year.

1:18

To stream the best of cinema, you can try mubi free for 30 days@mubi.com kermodanmayo that's m u b I.com kermodemeo for a whole month of great cinema for free. Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get an extra episode every Thursday, including bonus reviews, extra viewing suggestions, viewing recommendations at.

1:47

Home and in cinemas, plus your film.

2:11

And non film questions answered as best we can in questions, you can get.

2:13

All that extra stuff via Apple Podcasts or head to extratakes.com for non fruit related devices.

2:17

There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're already of Vanguardista, we salute you. Where are you, Mark? I can't really see.

2:24

I'm at Ali's. I'm at Ali's because I can't get. I can't. I. Right now I can't be in Cornwall because I'm about to go to Berlin. And so I'm at Ali's house because Ali's got the super fast Internet. His Internet speed is mad. So, like where, you know, mine is usually, I think I'm doing really well. If I get like, you know, 60 or 70. Ali's Internet speed is 504.

2:48

504 what?

3:09

Mega bits, bytes. Mega things.

3:12

Mega things.

3:16

Yeah, yeah. You know, like when we were. That time, 504 hours out of. What.

3:17

What would be the top. What would be the most you can experience all at once?

3:21

If you remember, there was once when I was in the offices of Weyland Yutani and I hardwired the computer into, you know, you know, an eth. Is it called an Ethernet and a cable. Right. And the computer, which my computer was, you know, goes. You know, if you put it on fast.com, it goes, you know, 820. Oh, I've got 100. Right? It went 8201-002005-00600, 800. And then it went one and it was like, what happened? And Josh said, yeah, no, that's one terabyte.

3:25

Who's Josh?

3:56

The engineer.

3:56

I know you need to explain that.

3:57

Because obviously Josh has been referred to before. Josh, who I met. Well, I mean, I've known Josh for a long time, but Josh is all also in Cornwall. And we met at the most pagan ceremony in the streets of Penzance, when people were waving fiery demons in the air and there was a person in front of me with ginger hair and I thought, it can't possibly be Josh. And lo and behold, it was right. Okay, just.

3:58

If you refer to random people, I just need to.

4:20

No, I think that. I think all the listeners are tuned in with Josh.

4:23

I think it appears to be 504 gigabits.

4:26

Gigabits.

4:31

Gigabits.

4:32

Not terabytes. Okay, gigabytes.

4:33

But what would be the maximum amount of gigabit?

4:35

I think it's gigabit. You know, I think isn't it infinite or is it like the speed of light? That there is an ultimate? There must be. I don't know. I don't know. Because basically, when I was in the New Forest, I was getting between 8 and 11. And then in Cornwall, I get between 50 and 70. But at Ali's house, I get 504 gigabitage. No, 504 megabytes. Josh says the fastest Internet speed ever recorded was 319 terabits per second. So that's an answer to your question. Thank you, Josh. See, the answer came from Cornwall.

4:38

What's a terabit? When you look.

5:13

When.

5:15

What's it look like? A terabit.

5:15

Josh, you have to answer this. What's a terabit look like?

5:17

If was on. On the desk in front of you in a Petri dish, what would it look like? Ter. I'm just interested.

5:21

So I think you're fully grasping the nature of electricity. Is that right?

5:28

It just sounds like it's a Jurassic Park.

5:32

Yeah.

5:34

Future movie.

5:35

Clever girl.

5:36

Pardon?

5:38

Jurassic Park. It's the bit when the. When the little velociraptor figures out how to undo the thing and he goes, clever girl. All right. And then gets demised.

5:39

Apparently, there's at least a trillion of them.

5:50

But what. Wow.

5:52

If there are a trillion terabits, why is the fastest ever recorded? 319?

5:54

Because that's as fast as they have got.

5:59

But in theory, possible to have a trillion, apparently.

6:01

So, I mean, we're asking Josh, you know, so do you think.

6:05

Do you think this sounds like a coherent and informed conversation?

6:08

No, I'm sure it'll hit the cutting room floor. I'm sure nobody will actually hear this.

6:11

Bit of the project, which is a shame because we need to welcome all our new subscribers who may have found the show, and then they've already tuned away due to the. The fun and games of the Melanie film last week.

6:15

Yeah.

6:26

If you are a new subscriber, you're very welcome. Thanks very much. And if you can explain how there's a trillion of them, but you can only have 319 at once, that would also be quite helpful.

6:27

Yeah.

6:38

Anyway, if you enjoyed the. The Melania stuff, hang around, because there's lots more where that came from. Though probably not exactly in that vein.

6:39

No, no. This week we're gonna be talking about some films as opposed to some bribes. So films. In take one, we have crime 101, which is a heist thriller. We have Whistle, which is a horror movie. We have Little Amelie, which is an animation and we have Wuthering Heights with our very special guest.

6:48

It's director Emerald Fennell. She's gonna be with us shortly. Reviews in Take 2.

7:06

Mark Stitch Head Again, an animation and Looney Tunes the Day the Earth Blew up, which is my favorite title of a film this year.

7:10

What happens in that film?

7:17

Take a wild guess.

7:19

Oh, okay. Plus all the other stuff including five Question Film Club. Each week we pick a film that's on free view or streaming and Mark tackles our five essential questions about it before you watch Build up a weekly film watching habit around the show. Sign up@patreon.com where all the fun and groovy people hang out. Plus we'll have further discussion on the best Bronte adaptations on TV or film for one frame back. Plus questions in which we answer this question. Well, we try what is the film that offers so much for most of the running time and then completely falls flat on its face at the end? Details coming up later. Stephen Blair has been in touch. Age 49. Hello, dear video and nasty. I am the Stephen who in a recent Wednesday lunchtime live treatment horrified both of you good selves. As I stated, my parents allowed me to watch Cannibal Holocaust before I was 13. I don't recall how old I actually was, but it was certainly before that age, which is, yeah, unwise. My recollection is my parents, along with other friends, parents at the time, took BBFC ratings very lightly. VHS along with the Advent of Clyde Cablevision, a very early cable service in the city of Glasgow.

7:20

Men.

8:42

The films such as Ch as no one ever called it and Basket Case were seen by friends of me at a young age. I saw Halloween 3, season of the Witch before I actually saw the first Halloween. My parents of course, also showed me normal films. My first cinema trip was to see Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Although let's be honest, that Queen is very scary. The 80s were indeed a different time. I was lucky to get a small black and white portable TV for my bedroom with the hope of seeing more scary movies. I found the BBC's movie Drome with Alex Cox and subsequently Mark Cousins. This along with a fantastic local video shop owner in the 90s who would steer me towards 60s and 70s classics. I would therefore say it has turned out okay in the end. Down with. Well, you know, end up with parents who give the love of cinema to the children even if they didn't know it. Except that could easily have gone so wrong, couldn't it?

8:42

Yeah, I mean the interesting thing about this is. So how old do we think Stephen is.

9:33

He's 49. Because he says so.

9:39

He's 49. So he would have been 11 in what year? Do the maths on that. You do it. No, I can't because I'm actually very, very numerically illiterate. As you know, I've got some kind of numerical dysphasia or whatever. It's like numbers jump around on a. On a, you know, on a. On a page. For me, 49 is 50. Okay, so it's 20. 20 towards. Let's say it's 2025. Take 25 years. 50 years. So he would have seen it in 90. No, that can't be right. 1975. No, he. No, so he was born in 1975. So he will have seen it in 1986. It didn't have a BBFC certificate then. So it's not that your parents took the 18 certificate lightly. It didn't have a certificate then.

9:41

I think the clue is the title, isn't it? I mean, what else do you need to know?

10:30

No, I know. No, but it's interesting because it's like it was passed by the BBFC with severe cuts around about 2001 after the BBFC changeover. But the version that your parents allowed you to see, I presume, was an old VIP co version, which was pretty much the unedited, uncut, unrated version. And I mean, I wouldn't advise most people to watch that when they were grown ups. All right.

10:32

Well, it seems, though, Stephen Blair's turned out okay.

10:55

Turned out fine. Yeah, exactly. He's done him well. We've only got his word for it. And as we've always pointed out, Julia Decorno, who made Titan, which you absolutely love, say the thing you usually say.

10:56

She's having sex with a car.

11:06

Watched Texas Chainsaw Massacre when she was under 10 because her parents left her in a room with cable television and the remote control.

11:08

Well, there you go. Case proven, my lad.

11:15

Case proven. Yeah.

11:17

Correspondence@kermanbear.com if you know Stephen Blair and you know, concluded that he's a wrong. And yes, get in touch, obviously, because he's claiming he's perfectly fine, but, you know, we've only got his word for it. What's out there, what's. What's new?

11:18

Okay. Crime 101. This is. This is a heist movie. It's Adapted from a 2020 novella by Don Winslow, and it's written and directed by Bart Layton. Bart Layton's name. You'll know he has a background in documentaries, but he made a Splash with that film American Animals. Now I did a Secrets of Cinema, BBC Secrets of Cinema on heist movies and I'm a big fan of heist movies. And Bart Layton is a big fan of of a lot of things that I like, like the films of William Friedkin, who incidentally was a big fan of American Animals. So the story basically plays out along the 101 Freeway. Chris Hemsworth is Mike Davis, who is this mustang owning thief who has conducted a number of super efficient jewel heists. He seems to work with insider information because he knows exactly where to hit, when to hit, and he leaves no trace. Here's a clip from the trailer. He hits jewels, cash and high value items.

11:31

He knows exactly what to transport him when there's no DNA.

12:27

He's in and out in seconds.

12:31

Your guy's untraceable. I need that.

12:34

I need that.

12:36

I came here to make you a business proposition. Worked at the Same company for 11 years.

12:37

You're a VP when you should be a partner.

12:41

Those high value items your company insures might make them disappear.

12:44

Start by handing me your phone.

12:49

So you're a thief.

12:51

Guys you work for, you think you're squeaky clean.

12:53

I need to start considering myself and maybe my clients. Don't threaten me. Life's too short to drive boring cars, right?

12:57

So what you heard in that. Mark Ruffalo is a detective who makes it his business to track down Mike Davis. Halle Berry is the insurance broker who after being snobbed at work, is approached by him with an offer to be in on a job that will make them both rich. The Fly in the Ointment.

13:08

Good cast.

13:23

Very terrific cast. Fly in the Ointment is Orman, who is this mercurial biker, Live Wire, who's also on Mike's trail and who is played in typically firecracker fashion by Barry Keoghan, who is also in American Animals and whose appearance in the drama is like someone throws a hand grenade into the plot to see what happens. Starrycast also includes Nick Nolte, Jennifer Jason Lee, Monica Rubaro, Curry Hawkins, Tate Donovan. I mean, quite the roster. And apparently Pedro Pascal was almost inevitably at one point considered for one of the major roles. Because I think there's now a rule which is that if you're making any film, you have to find out first whether it's possible to get Pedro Pascal in it. So look, I really enjoyed this. There is a scene in it in which Chris Hemsworth is in a car with Mark Ruffalo, who's hiding his real identity from him. Okay. And they have this discussion in which Chris Hemsworth says that when he was a kid, he dreamt of owning a mustang like Steve McQueen. And Mark Ruffalo says, well, that's interesting because most people your age wouldn't know Steve McQueen. What's your favorite Steve McQueen film? And he says, bullet. And Mark Ruffalo says, I'm really. Because mine is the Thomas Crown Affair. And what I loved about that scene is a number of things. Firstly, because it's nodding to all the references of the film. I mean, obviously Bullet and Bullet then connects us to French Connection in terms of car chases. But also it's about. They're having a conversation about one thing, but they're actually having it about another thing. It's. So it's partly it's about, I know who you are and I know what you're doing. Partly it's about you all watching this, know what genre we're in. Partly it's about the kind of, you know, the generational gap between the two characters, but it's also about this thing about ownership, about dreaming about owning a Mustang. And it's very playful and it's very sort of, you know, it knows what it's doing and it knows that the audience is smart enough to keep up. And incidentally, whilst this is all happening, they're driving through LA and there's like homelessness and poverty on the streets just beyond the car window. And I did an interview with Bart Layton on stage at the. At the BFI south bank. And I asked him about the. The. About the scene. And he said, look, the thing is, if you're making a heist movie, what you want is a ripping yarn that gives you a kind of skeleton upon which to hang other things that, you know, the. The things that the film is really about. And he said, so for him, what the film is really about is partly it's about his love hate relationship with la, because he's obviously spent time in la, but he, you know, but he's not an la. An American native. And partly it's about that kind of thing, about defining your. Defining who you are by what you own, but also defining who you are by the anxiety about what other people think of you, which is kind of to do with what. That. What's happening with the Halle Berry character. So it is on one level, this kind of sly critique of materialism and goals that you give yourself. I've got a number in my head that I have to attain this amount. I have to get this amount of finance. I have to get this amount of stuff, I have to get these things that will make me the person I am. But it's all. It's all built around this kind of really ripping crime thrill. And whilst I was watching it, I was thinking at one point, this is reminding me slightly of Michael Mann and Heat. The same sort of sense of location and the story being intertwined. And I know you loved Heat. I think you'd really like Crime 101. It's also got a brilliant score by Blank Mass, aka Benjamin John Power, who's this electro pioneer who did the score for things like Calm with Horses, which I absolutely love with Barry Keoghan. And here it's. What they're doing is they're blending stuff by the London Contemporary Orchestra with. With synthesizers to make, you know, synthesized sound to make this kind of really sort of pulsating, throbbing score that gives you a sense of action, but also gives you a sense of. Of depth and something else going on underneath it. This kind of, you know, sadness and melancholy. I really enjoyed it, and it was. It's one of the. You know, every now and then, you in the cinema, I think this is. This is just a great film. It's just a really good cinematic experience because it's a heist movie. It knows how to do the heist movie stuff. It's got exactly, as you said, a terrific cast, but underneath that propulsive surface, there is something else going on. I just. I just enjoyed myself enormously when the.

13:24

When I saw the posters for the first time. I did kind of hope that Mark Ruffalo would be around because he hasn't been on the show for a number of years. And he's one of those people, I don't know, like Saoirse Ronan. You go, oh, okay, they're in it.

17:36

You're gonna watch it.

17:49

Because he always is quality. He is.

17:50

I mean, but the whole cast is like that. And, you know, Barry Keoghan is real. He's real kind of, you know, like light, the blue, touch paper stuff, isn't it? You know, you know, whenever he's in something, there's gonna be stuff happening and. But I'm, as I said, I'm a fan of Bart Layton because I, you know, I've enjoyed his previous work, and I like the fact that he's got the. You know, he likes genre in the same way that I do, and I do like a great heist movie. I love that thing about you've got a great plan and then something starts to make it unravel in this Case the thing that starts to make it unravel is Barry Keoghan's character.

17:53

An email from Richard in Sheffield.

18:25

Yeah.

18:26

Dear teaser and trailer, I write following the recent question from Donna regarding trailers and whether it met the code to talk at normal volume whilst they're on in the cinema. Yes, my family and I have developed a 100% code compliance system for reacting to and assessing the trailers during any cinema trip. After each trailer has shown, we place our hands down in front of us, displaying a number of fingers, to individually score each one out of ten.

18:27

That's very good.

18:55

The system is simply that based on the Trailer out of 10, how much would we like to see the film later on? These scores are average out and alongside Mark's reviews, of course, that helps us to determine options for future cinema trips. This is a system which works well, causes no disruption to other cinema goers and adds an extra element of interest to the trailers which could otherwise largely pass you by in quite a bland fashion. I thoroughly recommend it to you all.

18:56

If you.

19:24

If you're going with other people, that makes perfect sense. I suppose it's not very helpful if you're on your own, but anyway, there you go. So, Richard in Sheffield. Thank you. Is that the kind of thing you might do at a screening if you've got a couple of critics? I know you wouldn't get trailers, would you? So.

19:25

No, no, we don't get trailers because critics get cross about trailers. I mean, actually, I say we don't get trailers. When you have this big multimedia screenings you do and you can hear the groan. There used to be a great. The doyenne of film critics, London film critics, certainly. It was Alexander Walker, who wrote for the London Evening Standard, who, if they started playing a trailer, would get up, walk out of the room and remonstrate with the pr, explaining to them that it was not his job to watch trailers.

19:39

Okay, that sounds like a bit of a novish thing to do, really, because it's not the person outside's fault, is it, that they're showing a trailer?

20:05

No, he would do it very politely, though. He was. He. Yeah, he was. He was a strange. I mean, I disagreed with almost everything he said in print, but I have to say he was. He, you know, he was a. He was an absolute icon of film criticism.

20:12

Correspondence@kerman amer.com what are you doing next, Mark? Well, I'll tell you, Mark is doing Whistle Little Emily and Wuthering Heights, directed by our special guest, Emerald Fennel. Plus we'll have the UK and US box office top 10, featuring recaps of everything that's out in the UK cinema, and of course, the Laughter Lift. Both are delighted at the prospect. How delighted are you, Mark, at the prospect?

20:27

What I'm delighted at is the prospect of just saying to the production team, okay, since Simon has now taken over these functions, don't bother putting them in my name in the script because as Simon knows, I'm off script at this point.

20:47

Yes, that's very true. Yeah, Mark, Now, I've been thinking about the early days of our show just a little bit recently.

20:58

Okay, go on.

21:09

When we first started out, we didn't have our truly wonderful top production team, did we?

21:10

No, we didn't. How on earth did we manage?

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21:52

Go to shopify.co.uk ktermode.

22:02

How old were you when you realized you were the.

22:09

Son of a president?

22:11

I don't think anyone's ever asked me that before. FX's love story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette. I didn't think I could love someone like this until you. From executive producer Ryan Murphy.

22:11

It's not a question of if I.

22:23

Want to spend the rest of my.

22:24

Life with you, it's if I'm cut out to be Mrs. JFK Jr. FX's.

22:25

Love story, John F. Kennedy Jr. And Carolyn Bessette premieres tonight on FX. Hulu and Hulu on Disney plus for bundle subscribers. Okay, box office time and I'm just checking, Mark. Yes, it looks so. The Melanie film is nowhere, really. And it's a shock. It's dropped 67, 67% to number 10 in America.

22:30

Oh, really?

23:04

Yeah.

23:06

So it didn't have legs, Thomas. Melanie doesn't have legs.

23:06

Thomas Bicker Dyke says. I love the part where Sigourney Weaver picked her up in a forklift and threw her out of the airlock.

23:11

Yeah, no, that was great. That was really good.

23:19

SkSm9. I mean, bunch of letters says the film will sweep up the FIFA Oscars. OB CS2. Shame that the title Despicable Me was already taken. And Alyssa has also uncovered an interesting. What looks like a booking anomaly.

23:23

Oh, yeah.

23:45

Yes. There's more in questions, actually. But anyway, so that's. That's the Melanie film, which is just sort of nowhere, but I just thought I'd mention it. And hello to everyone around the world who might be listening to this because they were sent your review, which has been viewed by how many people? Half a million people or something?

23:46

Just shy of half a million at the moment. Yeah.

24:06

All right, so if you missed it, check it out, because it is a tour de force, obviously, as far as the numbers are concerned. Number 11 is the Strangers chapter three.

24:08

Okay, so this wasn't press screen. This is the fifth Strangers film and the last of the Rennie Harlin trilogy. Not press screen because the previous one was rubbish. And if you remember. So if you remember, when we were. I was talking about that, I couldn't believe that Renny Harlan had got himself into this. But the official thing is, following the release of Strangers Chapter One and Strangers Chapter Two, Strangers Chapter three. No Strangers Chapter one. Strangers Chapter Two and three underwent a month of additional photography to rework the film with audience feedback from the first film. Three weeks of the reshoots were devoted to Chapter Three. So unsurprisingly, they haven't shown it to us.

24:19

Okay. Actually, I should have said before we get to number 11 that hamlet there is Armid film.

24:58

Yes.

25:03

Is not in the. Is not in the 10. But.

25:04

But it was a fairly limited theatrical release, wasn't it? That's. I think that's the case.

25:07

That's Hamlet.

25:11

Hamlet.

25:12

Happiness is a cigar called Hamlet.

25:15

The mild cigar found under benches and.

25:18

The benches and edges. Dear Yorick. And alas, says Robin Moss, I saw Rizamid's Hamlet yesterday in a very much not packed screening. Five other people in North Finchley.

25:21

That's a shame.

25:30

Three of them left after 10 minutes as well, which I assume means that they had mistaken the film for Hamnet.

25:31

Hamnet.

25:36

A film with obviously a very different tone, style and emotional range. Overall, I felt this was a really good adaptation of Hamlet with superb acting, strong camera work, and some incredible sequences. The To Be or Not to Be Seen, which we talked about with Riz.

25:36

Yes, great.

25:51

Particularly memorable. As well as the Asian wedding take on. On A Play Within a Play, I would also make two points. Firstly, for Shakespeare's longest and wordiest play, the film is surprisingly light on its dialogue. Most of the emotional heavy lifting is done by the acting, which is uniformly excellent.

25:52

It is.

26:07

And the film could almost be seen with the sound off and it would still hang together. Secondly, this really is Riz Ahmed's Hamlet. He is on camera, indeed, right in the middle of the shot for basically the entire film. He is, thankfully, he is a magnetic screen presence.

26:08

I thought it was a really smart movie and I thought, I thought he did brilliantly with it. Yeah.

26:23

And I think, as I mentioned in the interview to him, that it'll be a movie, you know, who knows if it's going to make the. The top 10 at any stage, but will be shown and watched and admired and studied for a long time.

26:28

I agree.

26:42

Long tail number 10, number 17 over there. 28 years later. Bone temple.

26:43

I did a. An on stage thing at the bfi. I think it's because. Was it with. With Jack o' Connell and, and he said to say hello.

26:49

Were you slightly scared by him? No.

26:57

He would know because it was, you know, I mean, I. I'd already heard the interview that you did with him and he. In which he was, you know, he was very nice and forthcoming and not scary. So that I kind of take. I mean, I know he's played a bunch of very, very scary characters, but I'd already heard him be nice to you. So that was all fine.

27:00

Number nine here. Number four over there is Iron Lung.

27:14

So this came up last week and this is the kind of, you know, homemade surprise hit. And my friend Van Connor sent me a whole bunch of information about it and said, do try and check it out because it's, you know, it is, it's interesting at least. So I'm going to go and see it tomorrow afternoon.

27:18

Craig Mather says it was a struggle, even with a latte. I zoned out a quarter in. Sam is an almost silent protagonist, which theoretically lets viewers project themselves into the role. But the lack of characterization leaves the stakes unclear. The flashbacks hint at a wider universe, but we only get fragments. It keeps us in darkness. Stylistically deliberate, but often at the expense of being engaging. Now, the praise, the Lovecraftian atmosphere, the Cronenberg esque sinew and gore, the tactile, sweaty, grungy future dripping with blood. The stunt work impresses, and for such a tiny team and budget, it's a genuine cinematic statement. Now, I don't know if you pronounce his name. Markiplier. Markiplier. That's how it's written. His real name is Mark Fishback, but okay. Marketplie, possibly. Anyway, proves he can make a film. I left feeling this could end up culturally significant. I hope it sparks a wave of indie cinema. Time and money well spent. And then Craig says 5 out of 10. So that sounds like a low score, bearing in mind what you said in the last paragraph.

27:37

No, but. So what I have heard is that it's not great, but it. The fact that. The fact that it's kind of got. Been created and managed to attract the audience that it has, and it is largely an audience which is outside of, I suspect, the. The standard audience for this film. So it's. It's. It is interesting and I'm going to go and see it on that basis. I'm not expecting it to be any masterpiece at all, but the fact is it's. It is a bit of DIY filmmaking that is perhaps indicative of the way things might proceed in the future.

28:41

Number eight in the uk. Number five in the States. Avatar Fire and Ash. I think we probably dealt with that. Number seven, here is Marty Supreme.

29:12

Probably dealt with that as well.

29:18

Number six is Shelter, which I enjoyed.

29:20

You know, it's Jason. Jason and. And as I said, apparently the Lighthouse at the beginning.

29:22

That's.

29:29

That's all a set. That is a. Yes, it is. Which is remarkable.

29:29

Number five in the UK. Three in the States. Zootropolis 2.

29:34

This is now its 11th week of release and it is in the UK top five. And that is really doing well.

29:38

That's at number five. Hamnet is at number four.

29:49

Yeah. So because we're now in awards season, obviously that thing about somebody going to see Hamlet thinking that they were seeing Ham Nut is not entirely surprising. I mean, it is. It is particularly unfortunate that you have two films in cinemas with such similar titles. I was trying to think of another example in which you had two films in cinemas in which one letter separated the titles. I think Jessie Buckley is going to win Best Actress because her performance in it is astonishing. And I also think that the sound and production design is terrific. I have reservations about the film itself.

29:51

The Housemaid is in number three again.

30:29

Seventh week. Seventh week in the top ten. And at number three. And when I reviewed it, I said, you know, it's ripe and camp, but kind of fun, but completely silly. Seven weeks in the top 10. And bear this in mind when we get to talking about Wuthering Heights.

30:30

Yes. Starring Amanda Seyfried. Who's gonna be on the show?

30:45

Is it Seyfried?

30:49

Not Seyfried, no, it's Seyfried.

30:50

Is It. So I've been saying that wrong my whole life.

30:53

In fact, in the interview, which I've done, I start off by apologizing to her for having got her name wrong all her life. But she's very clear. It's Amanda Seyfried. It just sounds wrong, but that's what she says. And then she says, my sister says it different.

30:55

Okay.

31:11

And I say, sad, as your sister say it. Seyfried.

31:12

Seyfried.

31:14

But Amanda Seifred.

31:15

Cy Fred. Okay, have you introduced her to Charlize Thron?

31:17

But it just sounds like right said Fred and so therefore just sound weird and wrong.

31:20

No, but listen, thank you for. Thank you. So did she correct you or had you found out just before?

31:25

Look, I looked up on Wikipedia and it said Seifered. In fact, I heard a journalist on the radio say Seifred. And I thought, well, that's wrong.

31:30

Wow.

31:38

And looked it up on Wikipedia and it said Seifered. And then I went. I watched a whole interview with her. And then right at the end, the interviewer says, how wrong do people get your name? And then she goes through all the list and he says, so how do I say it? Cypher. So it's very clear. That's what she says.

31:38

Okay, so it is right, Cy Fred.

31:53

Correctly.

31:56

Yes. Very good.

31:57

So anyway, House made it number 314 in America. Number 2 here is stray Kids, the dominate experience.

31:58

Now, this wasn't shown to me. This is a K pop concert film. Dominate A T E. Because they. Stray Kids have an eight branding album and so dominant eight. It makes sense if you. If you know the band. It is apparently more than a concert film. It takes you right into the world of Stray Kids because there's interviews.

32:04

Is it. Are they like the Stray Cats meets the.

32:29

They are. Yeah, they are. They've got a double bass and there's only three of them.

32:31

Okay, that's a number two. Anyway, when you see any of these films, please let us know what you think. And number one here and number one over there is Send Help.

32:36

And this is. It's. That's. I'm so glad about that. Sam Raimi's got a number one hit. Good for him.

32:45

Nick in Leeds. Dear survivalist and naturist, what glorious, thought provoking fun. Send Help works as cathartic wish fulfillment for every bullied or overlooked office worker, especially women trapped in those still thriving gecko style patriarchal workplaces. And as a sharp meditation on 21st century misplaced priorities. McAdams is note. Is note. Perfect. Finally taking center stage as she transforms from meek, downtrodden plain Jane into a gleeful Amazonian blend of Bear Grylls and Annie Wilkes. The rat emasculation scene is a standout. Before seeing it, I heard Sam Raimi claim he'd restrained his more excessive instincts this time. Happily, not a bit of it. The camera work and glorious set pieces, the plane crash, the boar fight, and the spectacularly foul vomit sequences are as Raimi as Drag Me to Hell and even at times, Evil Dead. The shifting sympathies between McAdam's Linda Little and Dylan O' Brien' Nepo boss Baby Bradley Preston are balanced on a conveniently found knife edge. It's such an effective two hander, the script could almost be staged more than once. Right up to the final shot, I wondered whose side I was meant to be on. Driving home, the fun, enigmatic ending kept unfolding in my mind. In a world that feels increasingly ruthlessly survival of the fittest, the film's message no help is coming, so save yourself is darkly, deliciously prescient. Because was this the message or was it in fact the opposite? Marvelous. Love the show, Steve says.

32:50

That's a very sharp email. That's very good. May I say one thing about that particular scene, the rat emasculation scene? It hadn't occurred to me until a few days afterwards, but that scene owes a huge debt to a film from 2005 called Hard Candy, which was directed by David Slade, who we interviewed when he did one of the Twilight movies, and it starred Elliot Page. And it is a really, really brilliant film. And as I was when I was watching Send Help, I thought, what does that remind me of? Oh yes, there is a scene exactly like that in Hard Candy. And I bet you, I bet you, bet you, bet you that Sam Raimi's seen hard candy.

34:23

Correspondence@KevinAmaye.com, we're gonna be back very shortly with Mark reviewing Whistle Little Amelie and Wuthering Heights with our special guest who is the director of said movie, Emerald Fennell.

35:05

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35:21

All right, it's guest time. And today we're going to be talking to Emerald Fennell, an Academy Award winner, of course. Best Original Screenplay for promising young woman. Saltburn was her second film starring Barry Keegan. And her brand new film is Wuthering Heights.

35:57

What should you do, Heathcliff, if you were rich?

36:19

Suppose I do. All rich men do. Live in a big house. Cruel to my servant. Take a wife.

36:28

A wife?

36:45

What wife?

36:46

Heathcliff? You're not enough.

36:49

Not for her.

36:54

And that is a clip from Wuthering Heights. Emerald Fennell, welcome to the show.

36:58

Thank you for having me.

37:03

Nice to see you again. How are you? Are you.

37:04

Have you been looking forward to talking.

37:06

About this movie for a lot? Well, you know, like, a few decades.

37:08

Yes, I have. I mean, it's just a joy to talk about something that you. Yeah. Something that you love so much.

37:11

So people will have read a few.

37:18

Things about the movie, but I think we need to hear it from you. A book you read at 14, I believe. Do you remember the impact that it had on you? Do you remember actually where you were and what you were doing when you read it for the first time?

37:19

Absolutely. Cause it was on the curriculum. And I think before this book, everything I'd read, I loved reading. And everything I'd read had been, you know, I'd sort of enjoyed it. But I'd never had the kind of feeling that this book gave me. And I think what it did was give me a physical reaction. It was really visceral. And I think for the first time ever, I kind of understood what it. How important the connective part of making something is. And that somebody, nearly two centuries ago can feel like they're sitting in a room with you, that you can understand. You can kind of profoundly, like, connect with someone out of time. And so I think it just blew me apart a little bit. And it's really interesting when I go to, you know, when I speak to anyone from the Bronte society, or I go to the old parsonage, or I speak to anyone who loves this story and this book. And Emily is. I think it's for the people that love it. That's a very. It's a very specific response and feeling that almost nothing else has.

37:34

Did you always know or hope that you were gonna make this film?

38:42

I mean, I don't think at 14, I could ever have imagined that I'd be able to make things like this. I mean, in my wildest dreams, maybe, but certainly after making Saltburn. The thing that I wanted to make most was something that would have a physical and emotional reaction in people, that would be a sort of communal experience. And I kept going back to that first thing that had done that for me, and that is Wuthering Heights.

38:47

So explain your casting. When you finally get, you know, when, after the success that you've had and you know that this is gonna be your next film, was the casting the first thing that you got sorted? Obviously, the script has to be there as well, but Margot Robbie and Jacob Aldi are so central to this story. Were they always your number one choices?

39:17

I mean, I think they'd be anyone's number one choice. They're so amazing. When I work, I kind of live in a dream world, so I visit imaginary spaces, usually four or five at a time. And one of them is, and has always been really Wuthering Heights. And so it's more of a feeling. It's more of a kind of emotional landscape. And so once I. I started thinking about it seriously, I knew that I wanted to find people. I wanted it to be not just a tribute to the book, but a tribute to movies and a tribute to, you know, the feeling that you get from a movie. And so I was looking at sort of Rhett Butler and Scarlett o'. Hara. I was looking at Burton Taylor. I was looking at those combustible, huge, sort of that huge charisma, that huge ability and beauty. And so it always felt to me like Wuthering Heights is a kind of. It's both extremely real and extremely vivid and extremely rooted in reality. And it's also very surreal and strange. And so it needed to feel otherworldly. It needed to have people in it who I think have this sort of gargantuan. They're able to take up space in a way that, you know, somebody like, I couldn't hope to. You know, they leave an imprint. They're indelible. And that's how I feel so much about Margot and Jacob in this movie.

39:38

So you'd worked with Margot before. She'd been a producer on two previous films. What did she say when you sent her the script? Or maybe it's been an ongoing conversation for a long time. I don't know.

41:10

No, I don't tell anyone what I'm working on until the script is finished, and then I just send them a script. And so when I sent it to luckychap to her and Josie, who I've worked with on all of my films, I think I was really lucky that she threw her hat in the ring. Not only as a producer, but as an actor. Because I think after working together in such a different capacity for so long, we were both a bit shy. I would have been too shy, I think, to ask her because I wouldn't have wanted her to feel obliged, you know. And so luckily she made the first move and I was thrilled.

41:21

You've described Jacob as, I'm quoting here, a very surprising actor. What did you mean by that?

41:55

Well, I think he does both him and Margot actually, and everyone in this movie I'm interested in. I'm interested in being provoked and surprised in my everyday life and when I'm watching movies. And so I think the thing that is about the people that I work with is what we do, the process is always we do the boring stuff first, so we do the good acting first in the same way as when we're building a set or we're looking at costumes. You know, we look at all of the kind of straight faced things first. And I always call it like the audition take. Let's do the audition take. Let's do the one that we know is gonna work. And then let's do something different. Let's do something more interesting. Let's see what happens if you do it with a rigid smile the whole way. Let's see what happens if you never physically let go of each other. Let's see what happens if you. You don't have any power. Let's see what happens if you don't mean what you say. You know, it's. And a lot of actors, even extremely talented and experienced ones, will hold onto that first feeling they had and they won't want to let that go. And the thing is about everyone who I like to work with, and Jacob, you know, having worked with him already, I knew that this would be the case. He wants to do something more interesting than the straightforward. And it's not that you often necessarily use those. Takes a lot of the time. It's just a sort of exercise and it's just for. But sometimes you need it and you need somebody who's not embarrassed, they're not worried about failure. You know, at every stage I think you need to be brushing. You need to kind of feel the edge of a cliff with your toes.

42:02

And you mentioned the set and you talked about the edge of the cliff. Explain what this film looks like because the set design is extraordinary. Just give us a few lines on what you wanted this to look like.

43:40

I wanted it to look like an emotional landscape. I wanted it to be the kind of absolute physical embodiment of pathetic fallacy. So it's not just the weather that reflects the emotions, but it's every single thing, every bit of food, every texture of every curtain. And that's what working with Susie Davis and Jacqueline and Linus and all of the amazing people I work with, is that there's an emotional reason for everything, and so it can be expressive.

43:54

Whose idea was the Room based on the Flesh of Kathy?

44:21

That was in the script. So I'm afraid to say that was.

44:25

Mine, which is astonishing. Does it rain more in this. The film? Rain in film I associate particularly with the piano. You know, welcome to New Zealand, where it's raining always. And I think your film tops it. I think there's so much rain in your. Is it all the way through? I think it is, pretty much.

44:27

I mean, you know, so it's raining a lot. It's raining a lot. I think also partly because I think there's. I like to feel. And I think you can feel rain more than you can feel wind. So, of course, the moors are windy, but it's not the same stickiness. It doesn't do the same thing. I like people to be a little undone. As much as you want things to be kind of beautiful, there's something lovely about ruining something beautiful, whether it's kind of hair or costume. But also, it only rains at Wuthering Heights until the end. You know, it only rains at Wuthering Heights. And then we're in this kind of nebulous, sort of always spring summer at Thrushcross. You know, it's almost like we go from one to the other and we go from freezing cold to this sort of lovely, lovely, warm, golden hour. And, you know, that's. And that's how one feels sometimes.

44:48

Obviously, Margot and Jacob are gonna be taking most of the headlines, but I just wanted to mention Martin Clunes having such a great time.

45:39

Thank you. Thank you.

45:47

He's great. What a star that man is.

45:49

Martin is a star. And I have been obsessed with him my whole life. And, you know, look, what a deeply, deeply talented actor and what an extraordinary man. And I think the thing is about this character, the character in the movie is a sort of combination of two characters in the book. And so what he needed to be. I sort of described him to Martin as a comedian without an audience. What happens to a comedian without an audience? What happens to. And it's. And up to a point, that's sort of what Cathy is, too. She's a movie star without an audience. And so it's that person who has this lethal charisma, and if they don't get what they want, they are the most frightening person you've ever met in your life. And it needed somebody like Martin, who has this innate warmth and this innate kind of charm that you would still love him in spite of how. How frightening and vile he is. I mean, I could literally talk about. I'm the number one fan in the Marshington Clunes Club.

45:52

Yeah, he is fantastic. And I also just wanted to mention Owen Cooper, because we've discussed adolescence on the show, as indeed has every show. I haven't seen him in a movie before. Tell us about the chronology of adolescence. Wuthering Heights. At what stage did you get him? At what stage did you realize he was going to be such a great kid?

46:49

Well, adolescence hadn't come out. We didn't know anything about it, actually. I mean, it's all down to Carmel Cochrane, the casting director, who's brilliant and who's. She suggested him and he auditioned and it was the most. Well, as you can see in the film, it was just the most devastatingly brilliant audition. Him and Charlotte, actually, who plays young Kathy, and they read together and it just was. It just was Heathcliff and Cathy and so. And then, you know, near death. It was towards the end of filming, actually, when adolescence came out and was this, you know, explosion. But, I mean, I'm not at all surprised because he's unbelievably special, but everyone is. And I would say also Alison Oliver and Shahzade Latif, you know, they're playing characters that I think have been sort of, in many ways. And Hong Chao, actually, you know, they're playing characters.

47:09

She's great. She's great.

48:00

She's unbelievable. And these characters, it is an ensemble, this film, for all that it is the love story between Kathy and Heathcliff. That love story sucks everything into its orbit. It's a black hole, and it brings everyone down with it. And so you need to understand. You need to understand who Shahzade is, you know, who Edgar is. And we looked a lot at the husband in Brief Encounter and the fact that Brief Encounter is, to me, and has always been a love story between a man and his wife and what real love looks like and real forgiveness and tenderness looks like. And it needs. So it needed. It needed an actor with the charisma that Shahzade has and the kind of kindness and the tenderness and the. You know, you believe him, you love him. Same with Nelly. You know, Hong makes an extremely difficult Character. So understandable. I always feel like I was always the Nelly reading the book, kind of looking in and thinking, these people are deranged.

48:02

There will be a lot of headlines made by the Outdoor Pursuits, which are followed throughout the film. Was there anything that you took out? Was there anything that you thought, no, that's too much?

48:59

Not really. I mean, you know, look, the thing is, for me is that this is, like, at the center of Wuthering Heights. It's about constraining nature. And so there's a reason for the dog collars and the bridles and the corsets. You know, of course, there's something titillating about it, but the truth of it is that it's about what happens when you try and put something behind glass. When you. You, you know, talk about a lot of taxidermy, hair work. It's dangerous. It's a really dangerous thing to do. And. And I'm really careful about how I show things like this, and I'm really careful about what gets put in. So usually it's way before script stage that I take out.

49:12

The.

49:54

More it's only ever if it makes sense to me.

49:54

Right.

49:57

I have to say, I. I haven't read the book, and my wife was. When I told her last night that she loves the book as well, I have not read it. I had.

49:58

Far from the Madding Crowd.

50:08

That was the book that I was studying. I feel as though I've missed out, though. Would it help if I read the book before coming to see your film?

50:09

I think it would help to read the book at any time in anyone's life. If you love reading and you love stories and you love feelings, then there's really nothing like it. And I think the thing is about it is it's deceptive because it's on the syllabus. Because, you know, often the COVID feels, you know, the writing is small, I always say. And as somebody who understands that feeling of groaning when you open up a book and the writing's too small and the footnotes are too long. It is a difficult book, but it is so transcendently good. It is as good. She is as good as Shakespeare. She is as good as Milton. She is out of. She's out of her time. And so anyone should read this book. And if the least that happens with this film is it means a few more people read the book, then I'll be delighted with that outcome.

50:17

Emeril Fennell, thank you so much for your time. Nice to talk to you again.

51:08

So lovely to talk to you.

51:11

Thank you, Emeril Fennell. Nice to have her on the program again. And as ever, I'm aware of the things that we didn't talk about, but maybe we can, can go to some of those once you've actually talked about, talked about the film Wuthering Heights. Inadverted commas.

51:12

Yes. Which I still don't fully understand, but so look, a lot to talk about in a great interview. Fennell said in that interview that she wanted this to be not just a tribute to the book, but to movies. Of course. Wuthering Heights has been filmed umpteen times. There's a. There's a version from 1920, an A.V. bramble version, apparently largely filmed how. Which is now believed lost. There is famously the Lawrence Olivier Oberon version for which the tagline I am torn with desire, tortured by hate, and then leaping forward. There was a Nigel Neal script for the BBC that was done in the 50s and 60s. There's a Timothy Dalton version from the 70s which I haven't seen, but is apparently not bad. In the 90s there's the Peter Kozminski version with Ralph Fiennes and Juliette Binoch. I think that was the first time I actually saw Ralph Fiennes in anything. And of course there is, you know, early on there's the dreamy encounter with Catherine's ghost scratching at the window. And a large part of the book takes place after Catherine's I'm sorry with plot spoilers and all this, but after.

51:28

Catherine I think we can.

52:28

It's fine. Large part of the book takes place after Catherine's death and it's, you know, next generational. And there is Heathcliff consumed with rage and grief and there's the whole thing about Kathy and blah, blah. Anyway, most of that. So in the book they're really only together in death when they're buried side by side. In this version, the ghostly encounter that's recounted in Kate Bush's, you know, let me in at the window thing isn't here because the, this film concentrates on the. On their life together, as I have to say almost all film adaptations previously have done. So this is the story of their life together and their earthly and as you pointed out, earthy relationship. There's also things in this. She actually names him Heathcliff and then says therefore that she owns him. So Emerald Fennell has said that her response to this is largely driven by the response of a 14 year old girl encountering the book and feeling all these things. And it's the feeling and the tactility that she's trying to get to. So we see young Catherine and Heathcliff Mountain and Owen Cooper, as you just pointed out, rolling and falling in green, to quote Kate Bush. They stay out in the rain too long. He takes a beating for her in order to, you know, to save her because he's devoted to her. And then we go in on the newly beaten wounds and then we come out when they're scars. Now they're grown up, now they're Margot Robbie and Jacob Elordi, clearly destined to be together. But I know everyone knows this. He overhears her saying that she can't possibly marry him, him. So he goes off. She ends up marrying Edgar because they need money because the family is sort of destitute. But she continues to pine for Heathcliff. Then Heathcliff comes back, now basically in charge of Wuthering Heights and exacting his revenge. And in the book it is absolutely, you know, driven by revenge and then brutally wooing Isabella. And it is particularly sort of brutal in the film. So as far as the film's concerned, the first thing to say is the whole thing, it is preposterous. I mean, it is a preposterous adaptation. But I don't say that meaning therefore it's bad. Emerald Fennell said in that interview, you like to have the feeling of your toes on the edge of the cliff. Was that the phrase she used, which I thought was really lovely. You know, you need to feel the edge of the cliff there and you need to be not worried about being embarrassing or being ridiculous or being silly and. And, you know, one could say that the Baz Luhrmann Romeo plus Juliet, Romeo and Juliet, which struck such a sweet spot with that target audience, was also preposterous. It just happened to be something that was received very, very well. Emerald Fennell talks in that interview about, you know, the physical visceral reaction and how what she wants to do is to create something that will create a physical, physical visceral reaction. She also wants to make it, it absolutely accessible to that, you know, the, to the 14 year old in her so anti Wilson scored Charlie XX songs. The set and costume design which you talked about in the interview is a cross between Hammer Gothic, you know, like blood reds, ominous dark blacks, lightning skies, landscapes drenched in, well, I suppose it's mist, but it kind of looks like it's come out of a mole fogger. There's also, weirdly enough, quite a lot of Derek Jarman sets for the devils in the set of Wuthering Heights. You know, the Tiles, you know, the tiled arch is really, really Derek Jarman. She calls the whole thing an emotional landscape. The absolute physical embodiment of a pathetic fallacy. And it does have all of that about all looks like a set, even the bits that aren't a set. Because the whole thing is kind of like an imaginary emotional landscape which is designed to within an inch of its life. The script has got that same kind of tongue in cheek sensibility that certainly had in her previous films. I mean, you know, the bawdiness of Saltburn, you know, the sticky egg yolks dripping from sheets, the fleshy dough being exotically kneaded. You're pulling a face, Simon Mayer.

52:29

There's a dead fish. Can I stick my fingers into its mouth?

56:39

I wonder what that means. There's a lot of licking, there's a fair amount of drooling, there is an abundance of bodice ripping, rumpling and scrumpling, some of it involving mouthfuls of grass. And as she pointed out, there is a. There's a touch of horse's bit. S M. I was thinking at one point they should have called it 50 Shades of Green. But she says that at heart the story is about constraining nature. Hence the bridles, hence the corsets, hence the dog collars, which I'm thinking. Yeah, but also, you know, you conceded that, you know, maybe that's a bit titillating. Maybe, yeah. The main issue is the casting. Now she talked in that interview about Rhett Butler and Scarlett o', Hara, Burton and Taylor, and actually both of those are certainly evoked by the poster for Wuthering Heights, which looks like the poster for Gone with the Wind. And she talks about stars who have combustible huge charisma. So it is certainly true that her stars have that, but it's also an indication that what she's doing is old fashioned casting. And when I say old fashioned casting, I mean the kind of casting that you could have got away with in the past but is now somewhat frowned upon. So, you know, if this was an old Hollywood version of it, then absolutely fine. You know, Margot Robbie is a superstar. She's also playing a character who in the novel dies pretty much half her age. But that's fine because she's a superstar. As for Elordi, he's in his, what is he, late twenties or something. Something. But he is nothing like Bronte's description of Heathcliff, who of course in the novel is described as being like dark skinned gypsy in aspect and a little lascar which is a sailor. From India or Southeast Asia. And none of those descriptions fit Jacob Elordi. And so there's been the issue of whitewashing Heathcliff, although that is really nothing new, because you have to remember that Andrea Arnold's version of Wuthering Heights, which I think is 2010, was hailed at the time as being the first screen adaptation to cast a black actor as Heathcliff. And that's like nearly a century after the very first version. And so the idea that the whitewashing of Heathcliff is an issue, I mean, that has been all the way through the history of doing screen adaptations of Wuthering Heights. And Andre Arnold was the person who then got flack for going the other way. The real surprise in the casting, as you said in the interview, is Martin Clunes. And I think he steals the show. Yes, I agree, because he's playing a combination of two characters. You know, he is playing the father and then he's playing the son. The brutality of him sort of drives so much of the plot, but he's playing it as one character who's been compressed. And actually it's quite an interesting act of compression. But the thing that he gets right is, and I mean, I like Martin Clunes, but I never, I never had on my scorecard that he was going to be this good in a. In a dramatic role because he's got the combination of buffoonery and threat, you know, the pathos and the rage. And I don't think I've ever been alarmed by him before on screen because he's such a likable presence. You know, that's his kind of. That's his wheelhouse. He's like, I think he's really, really good. Plaudit's tutor, Hong Chow's Nelly, who know sort of effectively as the narrator of the story. So I think overall I. Okay, it's ridiculous. Although so have so many adaptations of it been. It's preposterous and at times it sort of feels hollow because it's surfacey and it's a lot of design and it's a lot of upfront stuff and everything's in your face. And of course it's not the novel, but I mean, really, the Andrea Arnold is the one that gets closest to the novel and that still actually does a huge amount of editing and changing and abandoning. And I kept asking myself all the way through it if I was a 14 year old girl, which of course, as Sherry Lansing pointed out to me so spectacularly when I said I don't understand Titanic and she said that's because you're not a 14 year old girl. I kept thinking, you know, what would you get from this? And I can imagine it being, you know, a really fun cinema outing. I mean, don't get me wrong, it is ridiculous and it is silly and there are bits of it that are like, oh, really? But I, I also don't get people getting off their bike and going, well, it's, it's outrageous. It's not. That's not what the novel is. Yeah, no, it's not the novel. And maybe that's what the putting the Wuthering Heights title.

56:43

It absolutely is. That's why it's in a virtual commerce. It's her version of that.

1:01:16

Fine, okay. Well, in that case, that makes. But so as in inverted commas. Wuthering Heights as, as recounted by a, by a filmmaker remembering what they thought about when they were a 14 year old girl. Fine.

1:01:20

You know, Yeah. I think that the first, first thing to say is it's a big hit, I think.

1:01:34

But you're predicting that it will be.

1:01:42

I think, I think it will be. And I, I'm speaking as a 14 year old girl now. I think, I think I'll enjoy going to see it. So I, you know, I do think Emerald Fennell know, you know, knows that. I was clearly just listening back to the interview when we started talking about casting. I should have gone further on precisely the fact that, well, it's hard to say, isn't Margot Robbie too old and isn't Jacob Elordi too white? But I do think that, I know Emerald Fennell is, is amazing. But if you're a white director, you have to, to. You have to have a very, very good excuse to ignore the direction of a novel which clearly says they're not white. So.

1:01:43

Although, although, although it has to be said that for the best part of a century, filmmakers did ignore that. And as I said, that's why the Andrea Arnold version was considered to be so groundbreaking.

1:02:24

So. But it's 2026 and.

1:02:35

I know, I know. I'm not sure you can do that anymore. No, I do agree with that and I do think, think the casting is a problem.

1:02:37

So I, I would just under. I agree with what you said. I think Hong Chow's Nelly is fantastic. Yeah. Alison Oliver as Isabella and Martin Clunes. I thought they were captivating, you know, and I, I thought they were the heart of it. Even though Jacob and Margot get to kind of thrash each other and snog and stuff.

1:02:44

Snog is a polite word.

1:03:07

Yes. Yes, that's true. But it's very. It's funny how it manages to be completely out there in terms of here we go, eggs, fish, bread, all that again. And everyone keeps their clothes on for the whole film.

1:03:09

Yeah, yeah.

1:03:24

Because that's the way of things these days.

1:03:25

But, but do you agree with me that people get. People getting off their bike about it and giving it one star are being said silly.

1:03:27

Oh, well, one step, one star is, is, you know, is clearly ridiculous. Yeah, I understand why. Because I did. At the end of the film, you think, okay, you know, that was, that was fun. And Charlie XCX music works anyway. Yes, it's fine. We've touched all the bases. I just think we, we go from Margot and Heathcliff and Jacob being like 10 years old to skipping a quarter of a century to where Margot is 35.

1:03:33

Although, although actually the characters are skipping eight years.

1:04:05

Yeah, but it doesn't look like that.

1:04:09

But how. Well, you know, Merle Oberon was like, you know, approaching 30 when she played. I mean, again, again, that's what, that's what I meant when I said it's very old fashioned casting. It's the kind of casting that you would have got away with in Hollywood when no one cared how old you were as long as you were famous. Yeah.

1:04:11

Anyway, so I think, I think Emerald will have a, a big hit on our hands there. And it's the ads. In a minute, Mark. But just before we get there, I know you've been looking forward to this because it's a particularly thrilling edition, even if it is free of crushed eggs, dead fish and needy bread. It's the laughter. I'm suffering from insomnia at the moment and I barely have the energy to read these jokes, but I will. I'm going to give it everything I've got.

1:04:31

Mark, go ahead.

1:05:08

I'm going to put everything into this.

1:05:09

Okay.

1:05:11

Hey, Mark, I heard Nick Robinson on the Today program, which I don't listen to this morning. Say the eggs we were talking about, those eggs are going back and forth up, which is going to surprise some chickens.

1:05:11

Hey, well done, Monk.

1:05:21

Did I ever tell you I used to. I used to court a communist girl from Tunisia.

1:05:23

Where, where is this going?

1:05:31

Who used to live in Morocco, had Kazakhstani parents, studied Chinese and supported Liverpool. I had to break up with her. There were far too many red flags.

1:05:32

Hey.

1:05:42

Did he hear about you?

1:05:46

Are you editing on the hoof? Are you jumping over jokes?

1:05:48

Okay. Did you hear about Captain Nibbles, my three stone parrot? No, he sadly passed away Last week. Always upsetting to lose a pet, but it was a huge weight off my shoulders.

1:05:51

Yeah, yeah, I did actually see that coming. Yeah.

1:06:01

But thank you for respectfully not holding your tongue. In the next bit of the show, Mark is going to be talking about with Whistle and Little Amelie. Little Amelie. And we're gonna be back after this.

1:06:03

This time of year, everyone talks about going dry, but at Athletic Brewing Co. We're skipping that because we prefer going.

1:06:18

Athletic, which isn't dry at all.

1:06:25

From crisp goldens to hoppy IPAs and limited releases in between, you'll find something that fits your style. Every single non alcoholic brew is packed with flavor and the same craft experience you love. So, yeah, you could call it dry, but there's really nothing dry about it. Find your new favorite near beer@athleticalbrewing.com Athletic Brewing Co. Fit for all times.

1:06:27

Here's an email from John Armstrong. MSc in dementia studies, ballroom dancing. Medals as well. Hi, I'm from Barcelona. No, dear, I'm from. And Barcelona. Very confusing. My memory is not what it was. Me neither. But I recall some time ago Mark being surprised by Simon using the phrase, put a bat up your nightdress and ask him where that came from. Well, I remember. I know very well. Anyway, a phrase I remember him using fairly regularly on his breakfast show back in the day. I am sure he knows the source, but just in case he's having a senior moment. I'm not. I'm just back from the opening night of the Edinburgh leg of the Fawlty Towers play. And I heard the phrase then it's from the episode communication Problems when Basil says to the deaf Mrs. Jenkins, who doesn't put a hearing aid on because it wears out the batteries, that if she doesn't stop bothering them, he's going to visit her in the small house and stick a bat up her nightdress. As I said, Simon probably remembers, but if. If not, us old guys need to help each other out. No, I do remember that we had the. Our family had the vinyl. A vinyl copy of Fawlty Towers with the whole episode on one side and another. We had the Mrs. Richards episode on one side and the hotel inspectors on the other. And so putting a bat up unite dress was a family thing.

1:06:54

So that's.

1:08:05

That's where it came from. But, John, thank you very much and a very brief email. It takes longer to set up than it does to read it out.

1:08:06

Okay, go on.

1:08:13

But we were talking about Van Morrison.

1:08:14

Yes.

1:08:16

Recently. And you said.

1:08:16

I said there are two kinds of people in the world. People who like Van Morrison and people who've met Van Morrison.

1:08:18

Stuart Eckley emails. I've met Van Morrison. Right. Leglamily is out. Take it away.

1:08:23

Little Amelie, festival favorite French Belgian animation, which is up for best Animated Feature at the Baftas and oscars. Up against Zootropolis 2 Elio and Oscar's K Pop Demon Hunters. It is adapted from Emily Northam's the Character of Rain. I think it's actually called Little Emily or the character of Rain. Follows the childhood of Emily, who is diagnosed at birth by a callous doctor as being a vegetable. Although the voiceover tells us that actually she's God, she is supremely unbothered by everything, with no need to respond to anything. Her parents are Belgian living in Japan. They love her unconditionally. Then there is an earthquake, at which point she has a sort of two year old awakening and suddenly starts reacting to everything, becomes a terrible two, screaming, responsive only to the white Belgian chocolate brought to her by her grandmother. Her parents are distraught, but their landlady Kashima San suggests Nishio San as help and she bonds with Amelie. Now, I saw this in a subtitled version, but I believe we have an English language clip from the trailer.

1:08:31

When you are three, you see everything and understand nothing.

1:09:41

Open up.

1:09:48

I finally endowed with gaze and a body too.

1:09:50

What could I do now?

1:09:55

My body was a prison. But then. A miracle trace transpired.

1:09:59

This is Nishio Son. She's going to help us out around here.

1:10:14

You were the only one who could see the real me.

1:10:18

Yeah, Terrible threes in that case, rather than terrible twos. Anyway, so look, the film is basically a metaphysical journey from isolation to integration, from someone who sees themsel as the center of the world to someone who, during the course of the drama, learns to have an acceptance of being part of a wider world. I mean, that is really what the story's about. And it's a. It's a kind of perfect example of the way that animation can do that thing about talking to the, you know, the child in all of us. And the way that animation now fulfills the role that folktales and fairy tales once did, which is to discuss really complicated ideas, really universal but complicated ideas, but doing them in a way that is completely accessible both to the very young, but also to adults. Because, as you know, if you've read your children fairy tales or you've sat with your children watching sort of classic animation, particularly for example of the work of Studio Ghibli, you and your child can have a profound emotional response to the same material. Because there is something about that kind of Fantasia, that sort of fantasy that works really well. The film is rated PG for mild threat and upsetting scene. So it's not for the very youngest viewers, but like all the best studio Ghibli works. And also, I mean, I was thinking about this in relation to the Red Turtle, which is, you know, I absolutely love. It's got exactly the right amount of light and shade for a broad range of ages. The animation has got the kind of simplicity of 2D anime, but it's created with a kind of contemporary magic that will dazzle open minded audiences. It's got a great score by Mary Fukuhara, which really kind of gets that central fish out of water thing because that's what it's about. It's about, you know, a young girl growing up in Japan who then realizes that she's not Japanese, that her family is from Belgian. Also that she thinks at the beginning that she is God, and then she comes to realize later on that she's part of a world. I mean, I found it very moving and engrossing and rather beautiful to watch. As I said, it's not for very young audiences, but if your children are up to speed with Ghibli, then they're in the right ballpark for this.

1:10:23

Excellent. So, correspondenceobenabe.com that's how you communicate with us. And that, if you have a voice note, is how you can send us some what's ons. And we have a couple for you.

1:12:20

Here is the first. Hello, Mark and Simon, It's Peter Blunden here and I want to tell the listeners all about the Romford Horror Festival.

1:12:31

Which runs from the 19th to the.

1:12:37

22Nd of February at the Lumiere Cinema in Romford.

1:12:39

We're going to have special guests, horror classics, indie shorts and features from around the world. And a very special preview of Cold Storage the day before its nationwide release.

1:12:43

For passes and full information, go to.

1:12:53

Romfordhorrorfestival.Com and that's the 19th to the 22nd of February.

1:12:55

Very well done.

1:13:02

Cinema in Romford.

1:13:03

Yeah, nicely recorded, Nicely recorded.

1:13:04

A warm acoustic. Yeah. Sitting nice and close to the microphone. Some. A lot of thought went into that. So clearly the Romford Horror Festival is going to be a big thing. Okay, here's our next one.

1:13:06

Hi, Simon and Mark. This is Laura from Femme Films, a Guildford based community cinema that screens exclusively female written and dramatic directed films. We put on monthly screenings with this month, our fourth ever screening being 1999's Camp Queer Cult Classic. But I'm a cheerleader at St. Catherine's Village Hall. And next month's is Agnes Varda's hugely influential French New wave film Cleo from 5 to 7 at Newhouse Art Space as we celebrate International Women's Month.

1:13:17

Both of those, both of those are terrific movies and nicely.

1:13:45

And nicely recorded.

1:13:49

Yeah, very much.

1:13:50

St. Catherine's Hall, I think she said. Yes, is where the first one is. All right, so if they. If there is something in your life that is like that cinema or cinema adjacent, then do let us know. Send us a voice note correspondenceodemayer.com have we got time for another film?

1:13:51

Yes. Whistle, which is Canadian Irish co production horror film written by Owen Edgerton, directed by Corin Hardy, who started out as a special effects monster maker, used to make monsters in his bike shed. Made Super 8 films with school friends, went on to make features like the Hallow and the Nun, which you remember. I didn't. A listener wrote in and said, I can't believe you didn't call it the Nunjuring. Anyway, so Whistle is kind of like, you know, middle of the road post Talk to Me. Teen horror romp with Daphne Keen, Sophie and Elise Sky, a whole bunch of people. And Nick Frost. Now the. And Nick Frost. We always had the thing about ask for the. And it usually means that you're a small part in a movie that you're too big to be in. So. And Nick Frost is in this briefly at the beginning. So it starts with a. With a scene in which there's a. There's a high school basketball player. He scores the winning. What do they score? Is it a net? What do you call it? The winning basket, I suppose. But he's then pursued into the showers by a ghostly apparition which causes him to spontaneously combust, as someone later says. Yeah, it never quite added up. He was in the shower, but he burned to death. And you go, yeah, right. Fast forward a few weeks. New girl Chris arrives at school amid stories of drug dependency and the terrible deaths of a member of her family, for which she's responsible. She is assigned the locker of the spontaneous combustion in the. In the. In the shower basketball player. And she finds in it a jar which has got an Aztec Death whistle, which of course you're very familiar with, which is promptly confiscated by and Nick Frost.

1:14:07

Wasn't that one of the bands you were with? With.

1:15:42

It was. I was in Aztec Death Whistle just.

1:15:44

Before I. Yeah, because you were in so many bands. It does sound like one of yours.

1:15:46

Yeah, Roddy Frame played with us very briefly, but. But only briefly. Anyway, so. And Nick Frost blows the whistle with terrible consequences. Next thing, the whistle is in the hands of a group of school friends at a pool party, all of whom hear its piercing sound and then find themselves haunted by the specters of their own future deaths. Here's a clip from the trail trailer.

1:15:51

The day you are born, so is your death. If you hear the whistle scream. Dying is not a choice. Hello. We were told the markings said summon the dead. The markings read summon your death. Our future death is hunting us. We need to find a way to stop it. Death is unstoppable.

1:16:14

To be honest, if you blow the something called the Aztec death whistle, you deserve everything coming your way, really. Yeah.

1:16:55

And also I just, I love the thing about something never added up about the fact that the. He caught fire in a shower. Anyway, so look, it's a bit Final Destination, it's a bit post talk to me. It's a little bit. I suppose if we're going to go back into the history of all this, a bit oh, whistle and I'll come to you and. And then it's got, you know, all the tropes of every post scream High School Fright festival, albeit with an added LGBTQ twist. Actually, I have to say something that is becoming increasingly prevalent in the horror genre is how much horror is now wearing on the. On its sleeve, the fact that it's always been. Been, you know, kind of very open about that because, you know, we saw, we had reviewed a documentary a few years ago about the fact that, you know, that I think the documentary was. I think it was called Queer for Fear. It was something like that. But because of the way in which horror works, its embrace of outsiders has always meant that it is a place that you can go if you don't feel that you fit with. With the mainstream. On the upside, there are some entertainingly splattery demises. Although I still hold that CG splatter will never really replace the good scrunchiness of physical, you know, latex. Back in the day, you know, back in the days of Evil Dead, this kind of thing would have been. It would have been on the Director of Public Prosecutions list. But obviously time has moved on and now this is absolutely middle of the road. What certificate is it? I think it is 15 for strong horror injury detail, language, violence and drug misuse. So, you know, very kind of middle of the road stuff.

1:17:03

The.

1:18:30

The thing about your idea of middle of the road. Yeah, no, I mean for you know, middle of the road horror. The thing is the central conceit of being prematurely confronted by how you would have died in the future had you not blown or heard blown the Aztec death whistle doesn't quite have the immediacy, doesn't quite have the kind of, oh yeah, I get that hook of, for example, talk to Me, you know, which you just hold the hand for a bit and you commune with the spirit. And it definitely doesn't have any of the subtextual stuff which made a film like Talk to Me interesting because that was really a film about addiction. This is all surface. It relies on some very basic jump scares. It's old school shocks with new tech. But it was fun while it lasted. And at 100 minutes it didn't outstay its welcome. And you know, we're at Valentine's Day, aren't we? Which is obviously why Wuthering Heights is out now. But anyone feeling a bit Halloweeny rather than a bit Valentine, you look. It does exactly what it says on the team. You won't remember it 10 minutes after you've left, but whilst you're watching it, it's fine.

1:18:30

That is the end of take one. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, he and Dom. The redactor was Pooley McPool face. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so. Wherever you get your podcasts, come and join us on Patreon because it's where all the cool kids are. Mark, what is your film of the week?

1:19:29

Well, because as Sherry Lansing pointed out, I am not a 14 year old girl. My film of the week is Crime 101.

1:19:48

Back next week, head to Patreon for all the good stuff. I think we should bestow a year's Ultra membership. Our correspondent of the week week will be Richard in Sheffield, who is the guy who came up with the silent coding of trailers. Okay, that's.

1:19:54

Yeah, that's very good, very good.

1:20:08

So he gets the Ultra membership. Thank you very much indeed for listening. There'll be another take with you exceedingly shortly. Well, in fact, one's already landed, so go join the fun.

1:20:10