Part One: The Orgasm Cult

Courser media. Behind the bastards. That's the podcast you're listening to right right now. Worst people in all of history. We tell you all about them and you know about them. This has been a rough year for a lot of us here behind the bastards. We've talked about a lot of pedophiles and I'm tired of talking about pedophiles. There are pedophiles in this episode, but they're not the primary focus of the episode. Jamie Loftus. How are you doing today? I'm sorry for saying pedophiles right before introducing you. That was so close to pedophiles there. That didn't want to work in well. Personal. And today we're talking to the biggest one of them all. And we landed the white whale. I just was like, oh, I wanted to go right into the title, but then I hadn't introduced you. And I was like, I should introduce Jamie before the title. But I also, part of me was like, should I introduce the title and then bring in Jamie? I don't know. I did it the wrong way. I'm sure about that. I have one complaint at the start here. Robert, why are you not wearing a hat? I don't like hats. It's true. Where's your statement hat? So I don't have a statement hat, but Jamie, you are wearing a Theranos hat right now, which I am a well worn one. A well worn one. Yeah. Theranos hat that's been around the block. Yeah. Looks like fucking Liz Holmes sweat through that thing. Well, she was waiting to hear she was getting his diet. I, yeah, I actually contributed to her bail fund and she mailed this to me. Iconic. I'm wearing a hat that fit those very appropriate for today's episode. It says disappointment awaits. Yeah. Yeah. You're both going to get what you want today because we are Jamie talking about a Silicon Valley colt led by a female grifter and best of all, it's an orgasm colt. It's an orgasm colt everybody. Beautiful times. And then the crowd burst into applause. They're like, you muscled through six weeks of pedophiles to get to the orgasm. Colt, we did it, folks. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank God. It's like washing your face in a stream only. Actually, this is very abusive and a lot of people get hurt. Well, it is behind the shasters, buddy. Disappointment awaits. But we get to laugh at like Silicon Valley starter fucking shit getting mixed in with like traditional cult abuse techniques. It's very fun. And we love to see women in a leadership role. Exactly. A woman who is who is really, really hurting and taking advantage of a lot of men in a way that does even the scales on this show somewhat. Like if you're just sort of it'll it starts the process after she goes through a lot of guys after Spector and Savile. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, Savile abused a lot of boys too. Sophie. That's fair. But I want to hear about a woman. Let's hear it. Yes. So we're going to talk for a second. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to guess you there's a good chance you haven't heard her name. She's Nicole D'Donne like like D A E D O N E. How many times is the word clitoris in the script? I see it in the lot. Sophie. It's impossible. Can we get a control off on this? Yeah. I just got really excited. I avoided it, but I used a couple of synonyms. So here's the thing. Well, times. How many times is vagina in the script? Only six. Only. Wow. The cult is based around this lady comes up with a, it has an idea that like if you get a bunch of women in a room and you have a partner masturbate them in a room, sometimes with hundreds of people watching, it creates this sort of like magical energy effect that has a bunch of health benefits. It's like an operating theater approach to coming. Yeah. That's exactly what they do. That's exactly the heart of the grift, Jamie. Okay. Okay. I'm listening. I'm listening. It's going to be really fun. So what's also really fun about this is that this practice getting all these people in a room, I mean, sometimes it was one person at a time, but masturbating people in public totally detached from sex. Right. Number one, it is only vaginas and clitoris is being like manipulated. Right. Like that's the, this is not like a multi-organ kind of deal. And number two is this not supposed to be erotic by the end of it by like the Silicon Valley stage of the grift. We're treating this like you're taking like a bulletproof coffee. And by the way, the bulletproof coffee guys endorsed this business. So so many beautiful crossovers. Oh God. Yeah. Anytime you have a Silicon Valley grift, you have some incredible side players. There's always a great series of tears. The first shows up. It's awesome. Yeah, we get Tim Ferriss. We don't get a Navy seal. I was bummed about that, Jamie. I was hoping one of those Navy seals who sells like energy bars would be in this picture, but no, tragically not. Oh, this is okay. So the it's sex, but it's not sex. So it's more than sex. Yeah. It's way worse than sex and it's not supposed to be sexy by the end. This does start with a bunch of dudes in like the seventies who very much is about sex for, but before we get to the dudes in the seventies, we're going to have to have a little talk because it's very relevant about the patterns that these this group that's supposed to be kind of like breaking the mold and making this like women's centric and not abusive fall into. We're going to have to talk about the history of the female orgasm and popular awareness and medical conception. Right. Okay. There was a part of me that thought you were going to say we have to talk about the clitoris. Where is it? How do we find it? What is it? Just a picture. Let's all be on the same page. It's got like a laser pointer. So it's like right thing. Just mining. You got no excuse. So let's talk about it, ladies. Yeah. I think I my sex ed was so bad growing up in Texas. I'm fairly certain I learned about the clitoris from the South Park movie. Like I think that was my first encounter with it when I was like nine or 10, something like that. My son said I took it over summer school and they just showed us multiple horrific birthing scenes. Oh, great. Yeah. We did see one of those. Just one. I did watch one of those. Not one. Not two. Maybe four. God. Well, at least they put in the hours. I didn't. I saw one birth video, but no, I didn't even get like period information. And it was like a running joke in my town. How the fact that they did not invest in sex ed, but I went to this massive high school where there was a daycare at the high school. And you just have to think one perhaps led to the other. My connected. Yeah. I remember, I don't think they even told us orgasms at all existed. They told us that like, you know, how the active intercourse happens physically and that it feels good. And I don't even think I think they were supposed to tell us about like semen, but I think the gym coach that was giving the lesson was way too awkward. So he just kind of breezed right past it. We didn't hear anything about that. It's a part of the great American tradition to be full of visceral fear and think you're dying the first time you come. It's really crucial stuff. This is an I heart podcast guaranteed human. So for as long as there have been people, we've understood that sex at least could potentially be very enjoyable for both participants, right? Like that people have been aware that it can be fun, even if they've hated the idea of that. But there's also been this understanding that people with penises and people with vaginas experience these pleasures somewhat differently. At first, so far as I can tell, I don't think there was a lot of controversy about this idea. An ancient Greek mythology, Hera and Zeus are said to have argued over whether or not men enjoyed sex more than women. And Zeus, who is a prolific rapist, argued that women seem to take more pleasure in the act and Hera was like, yeah, I'm not surprised you said that. But then she was like, obviously guys enjoy it more. That's why you're doing all the shit you're doing Zeus. The wide-staged heresias was brought in to give like an answer to kind of adjudicate this. And he was like women feel nine or 10 times as much pleasure as men. So he agreed with Zeus and Hera did some really mean things to him. She did not like that. I gotta be honest, didn't know Zeus slender was on the calendar for today. Zeus slender is always on the calendar. I love it. Zeus slender is absolutely always on the calendar. And we do talk about him like he is a guy that was just a dude. Yeah. Like we met him at a cinemad. My only compliment to Zeus is that story about when Zeus birthed somebody from his forehead, like a pimple. And that's how I think I got Anderson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there you go. Yeah. I like the one where he turns into like a swan to have sex with a swan because he just sees a swan that's so hot. But he's like, I can't do this as a guy. Like I gotta be a swan. First of all, swans not nice. Second of all, beautiful. Sure. That's what Zeus said. So because because the United States is a culture that was heavily influenced by periodism and generations in which women were shamed and ostracized for even sexual contact that they had no choice in. It's easy to see that like, oh, the Greeks were like way more sex positive than like their Western descendants were thousands of years later, right? That like, well, that seems like at least a more sex positive view. Even though that's still kind of messed up. And there are some ways in which that's true, but assistant professor of classics and editor for the journal, Eidolon, Terran Mulder makes an important point about what this myth was really saying. And this is relevant to everything that winds up happening in the silicon valid days of this fucking sex cult. If the ancient Greeks were supposed to take a message or learn a lesson from this myth, it was that women were the lucky ones when it came to sex. Women could be assumed to always want sex and when they got it to enjoy it substantially more than men, giving rise to the need for men to control sexual interactions and the sexuality of women. The companion to the ancient Greek and Roman idea that women enjoy sex more than men is the ancient idea that women are sexually ravenous and insatiable. Their sexual appetites couldn't be trusted and had to be reigned in by male guardians. So that's going to actually be relevant to every, every modern day orgasm cult. All of which are again wrapped in like, this is all about the women and all of which are going to wind up recreating that like ancient Greek and Roman shit. Like it's crazy. How it's nothing changes. Okay. Okay. So we already have this is maybe a record for you, Robert, of like, we can't talk about this before we talk about ancient Greek mythology. And we got a, I fully believe it. I fully believe it. So is this, I'm guessing this is like, Oh, this is actually about like women and women's pleasure. Um, and women are obsessed with being controlled and need to be controlled. And that's actually hot and liberating. It's, it's a little more complicated and honestly dumb than that, Jamie. Um, but I don't want to spoil how dumb it is. Um, sex cult is going to be better. This is, this is, uh, instructive. This is critical to understand before you start a sex cult. And there's a couple more things that we need to understand before we get into this, because there's a lot of patterns, the Greek setup that we just never get free of here in the West at least. Um, so the sage Ovid advised his readers that women had an asti tendency to say no when they meant yes. Like he's kind of the first guy in the Western Canon to be like, a no is not a no, bro. Like that's, that's Ovid, right? Like he's that guy. Um, and this is endemic all over ancient culture, just as it is like today. Uh, Hippocrates, the father of Western medicine weighed in on the pleasure debate and essentially agreed with Tyreseus and through his descendants, medieval Europe inherited the belief that female pleasure aided in conception. The term orgasm didn't exist, but they knew what one was and they thought it made pregnancy more likely that like if she enjoys it, you're likely to conceive a child. That was like a widespread understanding in medieval Europe, which breaks a pretty important misconception about medieval life, right? That like they were frightened and ignorant of sex because they weren't nearly as ignorant as a lot of people who would come later. For one thing, everyone lives in the same room. So you like, no, where kids come from, right? Like there's no missing that. You see them being created constantly. You're, you're aware of how things work. There's no like telling a, there's no getting kids to like think that sex is not normal. Like if you're growing up in that environment, um, several Catholic scholars in fact, discussed prostitution positively. There's, there was an idea around like Catholic, um, theology in this time that like you kind of need prostitutes for society to work that if they don't exist, things go crazy. Like that was like a fairly widespread idea among some circles. And there were even monks and nuns who published work that was explicitly about sex. One example was Constantine the African, a 12th century figure who wrote a book about sex, Dekwitu on sexual intercourse. He was actually translating the work of a Muslim scholar. This is often the case with stuff like this. It'd been all josser, uh, but he filed that guy's name off of the paper for obvious reasons. He was just like, I'm just going to cut this right off. Put this out under my name. My fuck book. Don't worry about it. This is my book about sex. Don't, don't think about it. Uh, per a blog called Constantine's Africanus by Monica H. Green, it opens very clearly stating that sexual function was established by the creator himself to ensure the propagation of all species. For if animals disliked intercourse, all the species of animals would certainly have perished. Pretty hard to argue with. Many of the same frank attitudes towards sexuality can be found in others of Constantine's works. In fact, we find in later manuscripts of the Constantine Corpus a short work on the potential harms and benefits of sexual intercourse called again, the Libra Minor Decoitu, the little book of intercourse. That's, that's all kind of fun. Right. That is all interesting. Yeah. Um, okay. People are like, what pad goes way back? Everyone's always been writing their little things forever. Especially off it is like spouting the game. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The first pickup artist. He's like, no, no, they love it, dude. They love it. Yeah. Huge fans. So, um, Jazzer wrote about sex, but he wrote about it purely from the male standpoint and to the extent that Constantine was interested in gathering research about sexual or stealing research about sexual pleasure. It was only stuff from the male perspective, but they weren't the only intellectuals weighing in on the subject at the same time. You're going to love this, this lady. To both of you are. She's awesome. One of my sources for these episodes is the history of women medium page by Mary DeVry and she wrote a really good article on a contemporary of Constantine's a 12th century Benedictine nun named Hildegard of Bingen. Um, I'm already sold. I'm like, there's awesome. She's so cool. A lot of my buzzwords today. Yeah. She's just, you can. Is the nun fucking cool? We've got a horny nun. She's, she's a horny nun, but more than that, she's every now and then you like read about someone in history and they're from long enough to go that you don't get a ton of granular detail, but you can just tell like, oh, you were smart as fuck. Like you were a genius and that's Hildegard. So she, she comes into life. She's born into a rich family, but she had, that doesn't mean she has any choice or agency in her life. It actually means the opposite, right? Because during this time, her family's very religious and at this period of time, if you're super religious, it's normal to tie the 10th of what you have to the church and that's not just money in this age. That means like, if you have 10 kids, you're given one of them to the priesthood or to be a monk or to be a nun, right? Like that's a normal idea. So that extended to flesh. That's not for the very religious, right? I'm not going to say every family's doing that, but a number of them are. That's why there's so many people in the church, right? Yeah, you can get to 10. Yeah, we get to 10. We'll give one to God. And her parents were also may have been motivated. She started seeing visions at age three. So that may have been part of why they're like, well, she's probably in the church. I don't know if I want to deal with this. So I don't know what was going on there. I actually don't know. Part of me wonders was she seeing visions or did she realize that if she had visions and talked about them, she could manipulate her circumstances to improve them. And I kind of think that may have been what's going on because the visions are always very conveniently articulated to get her what she wants. My interpretation of her story is that the latter is more likely. But yeah, I'm an atheist in a scallowag and I like to see like a clever underdog find a way to win in a religion that's stacked against them. Like I think that's fun. That feels like so, you know, that's like the history of women in religion is like, oh, actually, a guy we made up told me. So you actually, it's like the only, it's like when I am trying to get someone to listen to me and I just respond and like from a separate email and be like, hi, I'm Kevin, Jamie's representative. Kevin is such a great fake guy name. Yeah. Kevin's a perfect fake guy name. Kevin could be a guy. He's a great negotiator, Kevin. If you ever get an email from Kevin, look out, you're about to get lowballed. You're gonna get fucking. Yeah. So I anyway, so she gets put up in this. I mean, it's a nunnery that's attached to a benedicting monastery. I don't know if benedicting nun is actually the proper term, but she's like a nun and the nunnery is attached to this benedicting monastery and she's put under the care of an anchoress named Jutta. And an anchoress that that whole thing means that like Jutta is supposed to be anchored to a place. She and her nuns are not ever supposed to leave the monastery. Like the world can come to them, but they're not supposed to go out, right? And, you know, as opposed to like there are there, I guess like the some nuns are loose. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're able to move around, be in the world. They can move to different nunneries or different churches or sure. Like, cause, you know, the church starts a new church. You got to be able to send some nuns over. It's got to be one that's not anchored to a place, right? I'm not an expert on this. This is just what the reading says. And it seems that makes sense. I know I've heard of anchoresses before. Your anchor nuns, your loose nuns. Yeah. Your anchor nuns and your loose nuns. Your pocket nuns, so to speak. And by the time Hildegard's a young adult, Jutta's died and it says a lot about how good Hildegard is at the social game that Hildegard gets made anchorous when she dies. Like Jutta passes the title onto her. So she's in charge now and she does not like this deal. She does not want to be stuck in one place. As Mary DeVry writes, she wasn't happy being attached to a monastery and asked for permission for the nuns to move away and start their own place. No, absolutely not, said the abbot. Hildegard wasn't having that, so she went over his head to the Archbishop. Sure, whatever was his reply, but the abbot was not thrilled with the end run or losing this community of women handily attached to his monastery or the challenge to his authority or some other reason we can only speculate about. He didn't let the women leave. You could say Hildegard wasn't going to take that lying down, except that's exactly what happened. Hildegard was stricken ill by God, paralyzed and unable to get up. It was God's unhappiness about the nuns not being allowed to move. Hildegard told the abbot. I love her. Fucking awesome. She's so cool. I was like, love her. I was like, oh. Hey, you know this guy you're telling me exists and talks to us? He's talking to me right now and oh. I can't come to work if I'm not a loose nun. Sorry. Right. Oh, that's genius. It's so cool. She's awesome. So the nuns get to leave and they set off Hildegard back. It's a banger. Hildegard whips. Yeah. I love it. Sorry. She finds. When you're talking about a cool nun, that just really just gets me going. She's rad. I'm really coming alive right now. She's only just begun. So she gets to leave with some of her other nuns and they get to found a new nunnery or whatever you call them, you know. And along the way, while they're doing this journey, Hildegard decides that God had made her sick and she's like around 40 when that happens, because he wanted her to do something that she hadn't been doing. He'd been giving her visions all these years totally. She'd been having, but she just had kept them to herself. She never like told them to anybody until now, but they'd always been there. And she writes this, Cry out therefore and write thus. Basically God's saying you need to go out into the world and write books. And Hildegard's like, that's what God wants me to do. And she reached. God wants me to pivot. God wants me to pivot. Pivoting the books. I love this. It's like, it's the same like religious narrative we hear, but it's like only being used to liberate her specifically. Yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. So she. It's cool in the sense of like, but the same thing happens in like the FLDS for like a new guy's like, I'm a prophet now. The big guy told me I need 75 wives. It worked. It can do it. Unfortunately. This is that strategy being used in the right way. In the very coolest of ways. So Hildegard reaches out to the Pope and she's like, this is what God said. She sends what I just read basically to the Pope. And the Pope is like, which hell yeah, God wants you to write like here's some fucking money. Why don't you pick out a team of like helpers and they'll like transcribe and write out and like publish, you know, all of all of your visions from God and books. And so she starts putting out books that are supposedly inspired by God. I don't, I don't know. I don't, I didn't look that up. This isn't a story about a man. So anytime there's like a Pope that does like a slight, a slight cool thing. I'm like noted. I should have looked into the Pope. You're right. But she is few and far between. Yeah. Yeah. Especially in this period, 12th century. Yes, whatever. Say. She publishes a bunch of books and one of them is called cause at Curie and it contains what is generally agreed to be the oldest description of a woman having an orgasm written by a woman. Right. She writes is this told by her or is this God telling her what an orgasm might feel like. She says it's God. She, because she couldn't know obviously God. Yeah. She has an experienced one. God's like you're in none. So this is so like I'll let you know. Let you in. You're missing out on something crazy. It is fucked up. If you think about it that way. I love it. It's like God is taunting her. Yeah. Yeah. He's being a real dick here. Um, so here's how Hildegard writes about the orgasm. She definitely never experienced when a woman is making love with a man, a sense of heat in her brain, which brings with it. A sensual delight communicates the taste of that delight during the act and summons forth the emission of the man's seed. And when the seed has fallen into its place, that the humid heat descending from her brain draws the seed to itself and holds it. And soon the woman's sexual organs contract and all the parts that are ready to open up during the time of menstruation now close. And the same way a strong man can hold something enclosed in his fist. So, okay, you know, very Catholic, you know, very 12th century, but okay. Okay. I honestly, I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. I wanted something. I wanted something sexier. Something sexier. She's a nun. She's simply a nun. Yes. But if she was alive now, she would have loved that song Pussy Palace by Lillian. She would have been huge about that one. Yeah. Um, that, yeah. I mean, describing, uh, being horny for a guy as a result of a brain fever is kind of potent. It's super funny. Yeah. Kind of relatable. Hildegard lives a great life. The church center, she gets to do all the things she'd always dreamed about. The church, church sensor on four long speaking tours where she like travels around like Europe and gets to talk about her work to learn it audiences of learned men. She's super widely respected. Her books are fairly widely distributed. And in addition to that bit about the orgasm, she also wrote out descriptions of the four kinds of men. And this doesn't really directly talk impact our episode, but I couldn't read these and not include them. Cause some of them are pretty spot on today. Um, what, what do men be like? What do men be like? Hildegard. What do men be like? So you got to know first, her writing on this is somewhat influenced by the Greek belief that the body is governed by four humors, earth, wind, air and fire, as well as something called bile, right? That like the mix of these, the ratio of them determines and like alters behavior and mood and personality. They miss that nation. They miss that nation in last year. Yeah. The vile nation. So the first kind of the first kind of men Hildegard said are all fire. As soon as they get sight of a woman here of one or simply fancy one in thought, their blood is burning with a blaze. Their eyes are kept fixed on the object of their love like arrows as soon as they catch sight of it. And these men are terrible people to be in relationships with, uh, because all they can do is fuck unless they're balanced by wind, which cools down their fiery genitals and lets them have honorable and fruitful relationships with women. And the second type of man is a man who is a man of fire and of wind and quote, the eyes of such men can meet squarely with those of the women, much in contrast to those other men's eyes that were fixed on them like arrows, which is really interesting. Like thing to note is like, can I just like see you as a person is kind of what she's saying here, I think. Right. This is like just describing a man who could be a friend, possibly. It is also sounding like vaguely kind of astrological the way that she's categorizing them. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Um, she's and yeah, she also includes an incisive description of toxic men who she describes as being full of bile. The bile men. It's really fun. They are incapable of having a genuine loving relationship with any being. Through that, they become bitter, avaricious and full of foolishness and abundant passion and intercourse with women. They know no moderation and act like donkeys. Definitely. She never had sex. Definitely. She never had sex. Her ex was fuming when he read that. That was, oh, I do appreciate that. That is like a very subtle but important distinction of like a man who is just like wildly horny and a man who is both horny and really into mind games that are like ruinous. Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's the bile man retire fuck boy and bring it back. You're full of bile. Yeah. Yeah. You're full of bile. That's that's we got to do that. Yeah. You know who's not full of bile though. Robert. That's right. That's right. So if I was just about to do it myself. Yeah, but I did it first. You did it first. You did it first and the sponsors of our podcast have no bile at all. Honey, bile lists. And we're back. They might have had some bile in them. I don't know who knows what you people listen to. Who the fuck knows who our sponsors are not me. Yeah. And so here's my favorite thing and this is something Mary DeVry points out in her article on this is that Hildegard might be the first writer to describe incels in the 12th century. It's fucking amazing. Is this the fourth kind of guy? This is she kind of branches out from that to discuss the different ways different kinds of men respond to celibacy. So she lays out the kinds of men and she talks about here's how they respond to like not having sex. And one of these types of men is obviously a gay guy, but she does not understand that. So she's just like some men are fine with it. And it's like, well, you're missing a piece of the story Hildegard. That's fine. But she writes here about men who stay celibate not out of religious obligation, but because they hate women. Quote, they neither receive any love from their fellow men nor have any inclination to a social life of their own. All the more since they exhaust themselves with continuous figments of their imagination. Then when they meet people, they are already full of hate, malevolence and the wrong attitudes. They can't enjoy company anymore. It's amazing how spot on that shit is. She's talking about clavicular. That's the 12th century. She wrote that shit 800 years ago. 900 years ago. Man, we always think that like this jet like whatever generation has really reached the final stage of misogyny and like being socially horrible. But no. Hildegard is describing the manosphere all the way back then. You could have told me that was in the cut last week. That's nuts. Yep. That's fucking crazy. Now, unfortunately, this is where we got to leave our friend Hildegard, who's awesome, but never did anything wrong. But we are not the show our friend, Margaret, killed Joy does. So we're not going to talk about Hildegard anymore. Margaret dropped the Hildegard episode. Yeah. Margaret, I love you. Just as this episode is going to be kind of downhill after Hildegard, the way women's sexuality was discussed in like, like medical literature in the Western world went kind of downhill after Hildegard, unfortunately. There's one bright spot in the word 1660. The word orgasm gets coined for the first time. There's a doctor named Nathaniel Heimor who used the term to describe what happens during a pelvic massage. Even that early medical professionals were experimenting with the idea that orgasms could treat certain women's diseases. And, you know, this is this is just like any time anything to do with like the vagina is women's in this era. Like that's just the way like all of the writing is in this period of time. Right. Sounds like a fucking Red Bull commercial. It sounds like they're just saying, and torfans give you wings. Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, that's basically the idea. Yeah. Through the 1800s in Western Europe and elsewhere, including the United States, it became more and more common to diagnose women with hysteria. This meant that they're like, they're not happy with like wearing restrictive clothing and hiding from society and like never seeing anybody until they're married. Not being allowed to read or not being allowed to read, go to school, vote, having to have 11 children. Oh, these these broads, when are they going to, it isn't because like the this hysteria stuff is so well worn, but it's like even framing it as like a cure of like, like an orgasm for us. This woman has to be productive in some way. Got to get, got to make some shit happen. Yeah. Cannot to this day, cannot just be for fun. No, absolutely not. So doctors in the Victorian era did eventually hit upon the orgasm as a cure for hysteria and some of the first electronic medical devices were invented to aid them. These are the first vibrators, right? And before these first gadgets, doctors had to use their hands to do this job. In 1891, Directs invented a steam powered manipulator. That's like the earliest vibrator. It was so loud, you could not talk. The steam punk vibrator is a steam punk vibrator. Yeah, it's like a horny thing executed in the least sexy way possible. Yeah, there's actually, there's a there's a sex store in San Francisco, good vibrations. That is a part of this story because this coat winds up and briefly involved there. That has a vibrator museum. You can see a lot of these old vibrators if you go there. I was like, were the Victorian vibrators also in inextricably had 40 settings that you have to click through every single one to turn it off? Cool. Absolutely. Cool. So that's that's a feature. That goes back. Yeah. Cool. So the the vibrator was the fifth common household appliance to become electrified. It beat the vacuum by about 100 years. So that's pretty cool. I think that's priorities. That's priorities. In 1948, Alfred Kinsey conducted his first major sexual survey and people started talking about orgasms of all types in manners much more familiar to the modern sentiment. Men and women's sexual desire gradually became a more approachable topic of discussion. The APA continued to diagnose hysteria and prescribe orgasms as a treatment until 1952. But things changed rapidly after this point. In the 1960s, Masters and Johnson started conducting groundbreaking studies on why women orgasmed. As Sarah Mansell writes, they discovered that women could have multiple orgasms from both vaginal or clitoral stimulation and also realized it took women about 10 or 20 minutes of sex play to reach orgasm compared to just four minutes for men. In the decade since, we've learned a lot more about the vagina and the clitoris, which is the only organ that exists solely for pleasure. But we've learned even more about the physiological benefits of orgasms about 60% of people with migraines experience reduction or into symptoms after one. And there's a bunch of other stuff about like it has an impact on you, right? Including just like, you know, if you have a penis in terms of like your urogenital health doing it regularly reduces the odds of certain diseases. There's a bunch of that that we understand. So I just want to make sure I be clear after the eight, nine years of this podcast existed, we're coming and saying clearly coming is good. Coming is great. Coming is great. Never been an anti-coming podcast. Okay. This is just a usually you don't want to think about coming when you're hearing about Hitler podcast. Like that's more why we don't talk about it on the show. Coming is medically good. Yes. Coming is medically good outside of the context that people usually come in behind the bastards. Consensual coming is good. Yeah. Yeah. So this actually gets to another really important point about orgasm and sexual desire that we've come to understand more fully in the modern age. In 2015, sex educator Emily Ngozki published an op-ed in the New York Times during fallout over the failure of the FDA to approve Fibran scren, I think is the name, which is a drug that was supposed to increase female desire. That's like the description of what the drug does. I think it's basically a drug that increases like vaginal lubrication, I think is kind of the idea. And Ngozki had an issue with this. She wrote that the biggest problem with the drug and with the FDA's consideration of it is that its backers are attempting to treat something that isn't a disease. Her argument was that modern research suggests there are multiple perfectly normal forms of sexual desire. Some people experience more spontaneous sexual desire, which is like somebody with a dick getting hard, right? Like that's what generally society sees as male sexual desire. That's not the only thing that spontaneous sexual desire is. But it's the kind of thing you can treat with a pill sometimes, right? Like that or at least you can imitate it with a pill. A lot of people are way more into and feel way more responsive sexual desire. And you can't just drug someone into that because it's responsive to a situation and a relationship, right? Yeah, I think we would sooner drug someone than try to have an interesting conversation with them. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, okay. And that's kind of Ngozki's point. She writes, I can't count the number of women I've talked to who assume that because their desire is responsive rather than spontaneous, they have low desire, that their ability to enjoy sex with their partner is meaningless if they don't also feel a persistent urge for it. In short, that they are broken because their desire isn't what it's supposed to be. So the road for Masters and Johnson to what I just read you has not been a smoother and even one. Once people started to accept that sexual desire was normal and even good for both men and women, our culture experienced a sexual awakening that took on many forms, a lot of them problematic, right? Some of what you get is like the free lug movement of the 60s and the 70s and of course the backlash to that movement too. Now our subject for these episodes, Nicole D'odone, was born on August 24th, 1964, right in the smack in the middle of this massive period of evolution and how we talk about and understand sex. She had a difficult upbringing. Her father Joseph separated from her mother Beverly when Nicole was like seven. And her earliest memories are of her desperate desire to have more of a relationship with her father than she was going to have. In the book Empire of Orgasm, Ellen Hewitt writes, He only visited sporadically and Nicole adored him. When he was away, she stood for hours under a street lamp on her house's cul-de-sac trying to stummon him. She invented bargains with the universe, certain that if she sang out loud the songs of Al Green, her dad's favorites, and crossed the street with her eyes shut, spun three times to the left, her dad's car would roll into view from around the latest street. And that's bleak. That's heartbreaking. And also how many, I'd be really curious, how many young girls were regularly singing weirdly romantic songs to their dad? It's a right of passage. Probably not zero. Yeah. In a way. Yeah. Honestly, that fucked me up a little bit just because weirdly enough to Cole and I, there's a lot of points where we have like very similar beats in our lives. Like, I was very adjacent to this community and some of these coldest. I'm sure it was at the same parties as some of them, just because of the places my life took me and the communities I was in. But when I was like six, my dad had to leave us for like two years. Like we were in Oklahoma on the family farm and we had no money and he got a job in New York City and he lived on his friend's couch and he mailed us back money. And I did the same thing. Like I can remember doing the same thing. Like being like, if I do this and this, he won't leave again, right? Like it's a very normal little kid thing to do. It's a very sad story. My dad came back. Hers never did. Because it turns and it's good. Well, it's good that he didn't because Joseph was a creep and a pedophile in 1976. He was arrested and charged with child molestation. Sorry. 41 minutes. 41 minutes. 41 minutes. Pedophile free. That's a new record. 37 on mine. Yeah. Okay. That's a behind the bastard. It's a new shirt. 41 minutes. Pedophile free in 2026. Most aren't so lucky. Not going to sell that shirt, but I see it. Yeah. So he does not like shirts that have pedophile on them. I don't understand it. I just don't want to sell anything. Thank you. Yeah. Well, so he gets arrested in 76 and charged with child molestation, including oral copulation with a child under 14. We don't know who that was, but Nicole would have been around nine at the time. And much later, she would tell a lot of people like when she's a young adult, she tells people that her dad did sexually assault her when she was a child. We don't know more than that. She's going to change that story dramatically several times. She comes up with a different version of it for every major period of her life. And I just have no more to say than that. Right. I also don't know was her abuse connected to what her dad got arrested for, or was it something nobody ever knew until she was an adult? Whatever the case, as a little kid, she acts out in some weird but understandable ways. She has a thing for like, she likes biting knees. Like she will obsessively try to bite the back of women's knees. She's like crawling around and like bite her like aunt or whatever in the back of the knees. It's like a thing she's obsessed with. Right. And, you know, she gets yelled at. I liked Pokemon cards, but okay. It's weird. It's a little weird. And her she kind of does have like an OCD kind of like, ritualizing. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Compositions. She says it feels like there's an animal inside her trying to get out. Right. Like that's that's how she would later describe it. As Nicole grew up, she seems to have had fairly minimal oversight from her mother and a deep hunger for self exploration and discovery. She dated boys and girls and she had a sugar daddy at age 16. That's all we get about that. But she's she's not very heavily watched right years later when she led an organization often described as a cult. She was described in the UK Times as having grown up quote a natural leader who says she didn't want to be followed. But that's not really accurate and it leaves out a pretty important detail, which is that when Nicole turned 18, she cut off her father, right, who is now at a jail completely. She has no more contact with him after this point. She starts telling people like whenever she gets to know someone that like, yeah, my dad did this to me when I was a kid and this is like a story that she tells a lot of she's like processing it right. She goes to college, a couple of different colleges, but they don't work out. And so she finally winds up back in the Bay Area attending San Francisco State University. The Guardian says she graduated but Hewitt, her biographer denies this either way. Nicole spent her 20s in the Bay during the early 1990s, which was both dealing and reeling from the AIDS crisis still and also experiencing the birth of the Silicon Valley Tech set, right. A lot of things are happening at once and also Burning Man starting in the early 90s. And that is actually a really relevant part of the show because it's like a hot trick of unfortunate. It's in the background like a lot of things here. Like a lot of people, a lot of people in this story meet at or like even if they don't meet there, they get into like experimenting with alternate medicine and all that stuff because they like take mushrooms at Burning Man. Like that's a really common story for the men in this tale, but like particularly. Every time I talk shit about Burning Man, I get like it turns out someone beloved in the room is like it changed my life. And then I have to like backpedal in an embarrassing way, even though I meant it. I mean, like I went to the like the small ones in Texas definitely had a huge impact on me, but I never wanted to go to the big one because there's fucking cops there. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to create my own little city in the woods to take drugs in if there's police officers. That sounds awful. Remember that time they got stuck, mudded in and all that shit. I know that's fine. I got we all we did. We had a flood one year that nearly killed a bunch of people. It was fucking crazy. Somebody died. It's people die. Yeah. I think it's like my inner like New Englander. But when I see pictures of Burning Man, I'm like, get a job. Like what are you doing out there? Not having a job and taking a lot of drugs. Or in this case, I'm assuming taking a break from your job and Silicon Valley. Taking a break from my job. I mean, we're like everyone I knew there. Like half the people I took drugs with were like fucking ER doctors and shit. Like a lot of people with jobs were like, I have a very high stress job and I need a week to take drugs with my friends. Otherwise, I'm going to go crazy. I have to wear some really bad outfits this week to blow off some steam. Yeah, I'm going to dress ridiculously. Good Lord. So Nicole in her early 20 starts experimenting with drugs, namely methamphetamine, which she would do. She would take by dropping. She's a parachuter. She puts it in like tissue paper and eats it, like, which is a crazy way to do meth in particular. But you do you, honey, I guess. She experiments with psychedelics too. She's taken a lot of acid and she's partying with people who are like involved in the first internet boom. And also like, and this is Burning Man before, by the way, it was like a famous thing that the tech set attended. This is when there's like guns, like people are bringing a full on machine guns. And it's like largely insane libertarians and wizards. So it's a slightly different period of time. What a weird, yeah, like transitional time in the Bay. I feel like I don't hear about it very often. Well, the Bay used to be a lot cooler and a lot less governed by all of the people who are billionaires live here. Like it was it was always weird and maniacs lived there, but they were often very cool maniacs who gradually got priced out of the Bay. So again, I had a very similar like 18 to 22 year old time. Like I'm going to a lot of parties and doing drugs with people in weird places. And I also feel like Nicole that I was very let down by higher education, which I had been told it was fun and there were a lot of parties, but it was mostly just like high school part two. Nicole's also let down by working in retail and food service jobs, which you know, same like it sucks. You're young adult realizing this shit is not as fun as you thought it was. But periodically you have, you know, these encounters and parties with people where you're like spending like two days on acid and time stops existing. And you're like, boy, I wish I could just escape regular life. I feel like there's got to be a way to do that. And some of us write for the internet to get that and some of us do what Nicole does. She could. She didn't need to start an orgasm empire. She could have just started a podcast. That's right. She could have started writing for Cracked magazine, you know, there were a lot of options. Yes. Liberated many, many lost souls. Cracked.com. So the big difference between like kind of where our paths diverge here is that Nicole starts like she decides that the kind of work that's going to take me out of this like rat race that I hate at first is like sex work, right? And she's a high highly paid escort, apparently. There's some evidence for that. She's fairly successful. And she realizes she feels really powerful because all of these men with a lot of money who have been much more career successful than her aren't just paying her. But they're often like crying in front of her and like breaking down. And so she realizes like she's this very important relation, which is that like, oh, it doesn't matter how like rich they are or like how what title they have like men are dumb and I can control them. Right. Like that's the thing she likes. That's an important day. It's an important lesson. I mean, that's a very common thing. I have several friends who are sex workers and that is a very, very common thread that men often just like don't know how to go to a therapist. And so they go and seek out therapy from a sex worker. Yeah. And there's a lot of crying. Yeah. Yeah. No, I had a friend who was an escort and one of her regular clients was this like big Russian mob dude who would come in like twice a year and didn't even want to have sex with her. And didn't even want to have sex would just lay on top of her and cry for like four hours. And like that was that was what this guy was willing to pay for. Yeah. Just like, okay, that implies some dark things about your day job. But like, you know what, no follow up questions. No follow up questions for me. So she's, she's, she's doing this for a couple of years and Hewitt writes with each client she practiced her cold reading trying to deduce what the man secretly wanted. She quickly learned that her sexual insights held significant economic value. So by the time she's 27, you know, this is kind of where she's at. And she gets a call from her mom that her dad is sick and dying in a prison hospital. She's not been in contact. So she didn't know he'd gone back to prison. But her mom tells you it tells her like, yeah, he's back in prison. And that's how Nicole learns that her dad had been arrested for child molestation again. This time for abusing two preteen girls, including his 12 year old granddaughter who was living with him. Nicole, this hits very hard. She's shocked by this development. She travels to visit her dad. And as he dies, she tells him that she forgives him. And again, we know this because she tells the story a lot. I don't know. Again, I actually don't know how true it is, but this is like an important when she becomes a guru. This is a story she will repeat a lot in the early years of being a guru, right? And the way she tells it, his death kind of convinces her to fully unmoor herself from mainstream society. So like many of us did, she moved into a warehouse while hers was in San Francisco, where a group of theosophists live and operated a sort of magical commune and largely took a lot of LSD, right? Many of us have had experiences like this. I mean, perfectly fine way to deal with things. Who among us? Who among us? I mean, even it is interesting hearing that like she was developing cold reading too, because it just like you hear so many points where she could have like, you're like, she could have been a fake medium. She could have done all sorts of shit. So many other jobs. Yeah. She's got so many skills. Yeah. She's got so many skills. And now she's living with wizards in a warehouse and taking acid every day. Now, this may not have been as fun because she would later. And again, she's always saying this as she's like giving parables to her followers to portray a message. So who knows what's true. But a story she would later relate while lecturing her followers is that she moves into this with like a girl. Friend of hers at the time and her girlfriend is like very abusive and is basically plying her with drugs until she would burn out and then she would hand her off to someone else to recover and then take Nicole back and feed her more drugs. And, you know, Nicole would say quote, until I was insane looking for Jesus in the streets adding up all the numbers on every house I passed right that like this. This is a very abusive relationship. And this woman like uses psychedelics to kind of like shatter Nicole's psyche. You know, make sure you know someone for a while before you start taking drugs with them kids. If you're going to take drugs with a with a romantic partner, don't take ecstasy on the first date. That'll fuck you up way more than acid. Well, boy, what you don't need when you're starting a relationship is a massive oxytocin dump artificially induced. And let me guess all the men calling themselves wizards she lived with weren't helpful. I don't think they helped. I don't think the wizards helped. I'm fucking kidding. The wizard theosophist didn't help. Fucking hell. Oh, man. So in Nicole's case, it led her to remain dropped out of society once she leaves the warehouse. She's around 30 now and she decides I'm going to become a Buddhist nun at a Zen monastery. Like Hilda Gard. Kind of. There is this kind of this mad libs approach to her life that I appreciate. It's it's very Bay Area in the 90s. Yeah. I feel like my equivalent of it is like when you find out you're like Los Angeles therapist was in three episodes of SVU 20 years ago. Yeah. You're like, right, this is the pivot. Yeah. This is this was coming. Yeah. When you live up in the mountains of Northern California and the 20 teens and everyone over 40 that you know in the cannabis business had previously lived in a warehouse in San Francisco. They could drugs with wizards. Or they were cartel. Yeah. Anyway, so Nicole found aspects of the nun life appealing, but she was also really anxious about the fact that she was going to have to give up sex. So she decides like, well, before I do this, I'm going to just go wild for like a week and have a week of just like crazy sex before becoming a nun and don't have anymore. Right. So that's her plan. A Buddhist rum springer. In a 20 25 article for the New York Times, Korean Rami describes what happened next. She met a man at a party. There is a practice you might want to try. Nicole recalls him telling her before they headed down to his place, a yoga ashram. Take off your pants and lie down. He told her, I'm going to take my clothes off. I'm going to stroke you for 15 minutes. It seemed insane at first, she says, but she did as she was told. The experience was eye opening. She says, I was walking home at night and just felt so clear. And first off, that's, that's interesting. Like it really says a lot about kind of where her life has led her that this guy says this and she's like, yeah, sure. I'll give it a shot. That said, I've also done stuff like that because I met a stranger at a party. So I get it. Who am I? I mean, for, I feel like it just, it's really a luck of the draw of what kind of parties you have access to. What kind of parties you have access to. And who offers to take you back to what ashram. Yeah. And like that man could have been very scary. Very scary. Apparently he wasn't. I mean, it's some light yoga culting. You know, I think the worst that ever happened to me at a party of that nature was that I briefly pretended to be really into WWE. You just never know. Yeah. I lived at a house in Houston with some very strange people for like a week and a half as a result of something like that. It didn't last. Thank God. Long party. That ended badly. No kidding. You're going to have, buddy. So yeah, in other accounts that she's given of this encounter, Nicole emphasizes that before this guy got her started, he just like looked at her genitals and described them to her and told her that they were beautiful. And she like cried, realizing that no one had ever said anything like that to her before. And this has become like will become an important part of like the the her theory on orgasmic meditation, which she's going to invent based on all of this later on, right? This is like one of the steps that you have to go through in this, which makes being in a room full of like 20 people doing this really strange. So she finds this guy again. His turns out he's a dude named Erwan Davin, right? And he's a student of a practice called deliberate orgasm. And the idea had come from a Bay Area commune started in 1968, the Morehouse community, which had been founded by a guy named Victor Baranco or Vic, who was himself a product of the free love and the self improvement movement. He was also used to play at salesman. Okay, that's his name is Vic. Context is great here. That's fine. Just like a neighborhood rumor, like you won't have any idea who you just bought a wrench from. Yeah, where his hands have been. So when I was writing these episodes, I was planning for this to just be a quick two episodes. I think it's going to be at least three because I had to go into the whole history of the different orgasm cults that have existed in the Bay Area solely in California. Well, they spread, but they start in California. You damn sure about that. Yeah. So here's how here's how Ellen Hewitt describes Vic's journey. Vic claimed to have learned the meditative clitoral stroking technique deliberate orgasm in his 30s from a self proclaimed witch when he and his wife were seeking help with their sex life. The actual origin of the practice is hard to pin down, but Vic realized the value of the idea quickly. In 1968, he started a commune in Lafayette, California. He picked the name Morehouse because it was the place dedicated to living with more. Here's how one of Vic's lieutenants put it. We at Morehouse believe that every day is Sunday. We believe that we are on earth to have a good time to devote our lives to pleasure. We call it responsible hedonism. I can't. This is it's so silly. It's so silly that this is it sounds like a man who realized he never made his wife come in their 30s. And then instead of just making her come was like, I have to start a business. I'm just gonna bring a witch into this. There's money in this. Baby, baby, did you know you could do that? And she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. You could have done it at any time. Yeah, Marion Man in his 30s discovers orgasms and decides there's money in it. Monetizing women's orgasms. It's really funny. Let's go, Vic. Oh man. This is all occurring as part of an explosion of intentional and utopian communities around the time. And of those, Morehouse is not among the most toxic. This is like on the low end of bad for what things you might call cults in this period of time. Although it's still pretty bad. It's bad and it's also corny. It's corny makes it worse. Colts always are in religion always is folks. And that doesn't mean it can't be an important part of your life. Part of becoming a real adult is an understanding that to be happy, you have to do embarrassing things. Right? That's it folks. Sorry, you can't be cool once you're no longer like 19. Yeah. So give up. So Morehouse sells introductory courses. And these are all called the courses they sell. Like if you sign up and pay, it's called the mark group. And people are told they're called marks. You're being told that. They're jokingly saying like you are marks and we are like hustling you. Right? Like that's very open and they're open about them. Like we're hustling you, but you'll get something out of it. Right? Like we'll get your money and you'll learn how to have more better sex. Right? So that's that's the way they're kind of advertising themselves. KQED. There's an article in the sorry, I found an article on KQED news's website. Quote, one notorious Morehouse event was a public demonstration in 1976 of what the group claimed was a woman having a three hour orgasm. And Barranco took advantage of California's loose post-secondary education standards to turn the Lafayette commune into More University, which offered PhDs in the humanities and sensuality and conducted what the organization said was sexual research. In 1992, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the courses cost as much as $16,800. Oh my God. So this is that KQED article came out after like some lawsuits around this group. And there's a lot of negative reporting that hits like come like the 80s and 90s and stuff. Barranco's over the years, sue several newspapers for libel. Those lawsuits all fail, but they make public some fascinating details about how the group works during discovery. Like that, there are more universities advanced sexuality class conducted research on quote, engorgement, lubrication, seminal secretion, and that one purpose of the class was to make friends with another crotch. So they're also gross and corny. It's starting to sound like a disgusting prison experiment. It is. It is pretty gross. Like they're pretty gross about the wording. But also they're hitting like a bomb in a culture of like men who have don't know that you can like actually please your partner. But like, like that's something that sex can have. So the fact that a guy is being like, no, actually in a very clinical setting, you can just learn how to like manipulate a clitoris. Right. Like you can just take that class and there are dudes who are willing to pay money for that. It's a business, right? And part because people can't talk about sex and they can't be educated about it really in this period of time very well. Right. So there's a hunger for this kind of thing. And, you know, what's going on kind of within the cult's internal messaging is that the increasing scientific consensus on sex and pleasure is being twisted to argue kind of the same thing the Greeks had argued, right? This is set up as very, we're trying to, you know, make men better and make you all have better sex and have make men, women, make sure women have a better time. But a big part of the scientific theories they come up with about sex and orgasms is that women don't just enjoy sex more than men. They're insatiable. And so there's nothing wrong with treating them like sexual beings, whether or not they want that. Right. It's the same conclusion. Right. 2000 something years later. It's pretty wild when you lay it out like that. Yeah. And now they're like printing money doing it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they buy a big commune. Very curious about who's teaching these classes and what the gender split is there. It's so true because it's like that on its face, you know, maybe there's elements to it that are positive and like are speaking to like how puritanical the Greek language is. And what the US was and is about sex and wanting, you know, their partners to have pleasure, but there is this element of like the profit, like profiting off of it is one thing. And it's also just like, it just feels like a stealing of narrative too of like, not only do I want to be able to like manipulate a clitoris and make someone come, I want to be able to like brag about it and have a graduate degree in it. Yeah. It's so yucky and just feels like still asserting yourself. Yeah. Like, you know. I'm imagining like a fucking 70s dude with a huge mustache and like a bed, but behind it is like it's like the wall of a doctor's office with his degrees and sex. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Vic's whole thing was in fact, aping some really lazy interpretations of like feminism and like kind of modern sex science and twisting those to his own ends. For one, he agreed that women shouldn't be expected to wear makeup or shave their body hair. So he banned them from doing those things when they lived in the Morehouse Colt compound. Oh, so close Vic. So close. Yeah. So he traveled his properties, usually in a golf cart, because he hated walking. He was weighted on by men and women and the women were made to wear French made uniforms. This service was called mating. When asked why he did this, he answered sexual liberation. People had very different experiences with the Morehouses. Again, most folks are not joining the Colt. They're taking some classes, right? But there are people who like live there and over the years they start, they build separate Morehouses, right? They're all over the country and they're selling courses and people are living there and having like compulsory sex, right? Because they're kind of told you have to constantly be having sex. There's like quotas and stuff. And Vic keeps a strict in and out list of his followers and he'll encourage them to exchange sex with each other in order to improve their standings. Per Hewitt's book. How quickly does this like escalate? That's ten years or so, I think. Something like that. You know, I mean, it lasts longer than that, but it's over like the first decade. I think that like all this is slotting into place. As Hewitt writes, people were assigned job shifts as technicians and their only duty was to fill a certain weekly quota of tricks or sexual service encounters. The technicians would look within the community for customers to have sex with that day and they would take payment using the group's internal paper currency. Residents were screened for STDs and forbidden from sex outside the group. Vic was criticized during his life, but the grift never exploded. And some form of this community exists today. As one former teacher later said, The Institute is a good scam. We call ourselves hustlers and other people marks. Victor hustles their asses and their souls. He takes their dough to feed himself, but he sees to it that they win too. Right? Now, whether or not that's true, it's something different people have very different takes on. I wouldn't say, certainly not everyone is winning this. Not everybody. No. But the Morehouse Institute is mostly relevant to our story because if you know, like in 1992, that's when they had like the Morehouse Institute has one of their big legal spats and they get a bunch of bad press. And one of Vic's students, a guy named RJ Testerman, leaves the group to found his own orgasm cult, the Welcome to Consensus, which our friend Nicole is going to join in 19, I think 97 in the late 90s. Okay. So. Welcome to Consensus. The Welcome to Consensus. What an upsetting name. I don't like that at all. I don't like it, honey. That's nice. I don't like that at all. Yeah. If you have any problems, it's actually answered by the name of the organization. Yeah. So go back to the sign. Just tapping the sign. Yeah. Tap in the sign. Jamie, you got anything to plug before we write out for a day before we get back to orgasm cults? Before, yeah. Before we cool off. You can listen to the Bechtel cast. We're having our 10-year anniversary soon, which is nuts. You can listen to We The Unhoused. I have a book that'll be available for pre-sale sometime in the summer. I'll let you know. Check Instagram, JamieCris Superstar. Rock on. Yep. All right, everybody. This has been the episode. We'll be back with more of us having to say uncomfortable phrases to read in a broadcast, like clitoral stimulation that nobody wants to sit and read off a script. That's not anybody's ideal day. I don't know. I think we all had a nice time. Part one is always the fun one. Part one is the fun one. It's because I've always been a pretty sex-positive guy. And by the end of the research for this, I was like, stop fucking. Stop fucking. You people are doing it wrong. Stop. And stop doing drugs. You're doing that wrong too. Get a job. All right, we're done. Behind the Bastards is a production of CoolZone Media. For more from CoolZone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Full video episodes of Behind the Bastards are now streaming on Netflix, dropping every Tuesday and Thursday. Hit remind me on Netflix so you don't miss an episode. For clips in our older episode catalog, continue to subscribe to our YouTube channel, youtube.com, slash at behind the bastards. We love about 40% of you, statistically speaking.