Harbaugh(!), Pete Carroll, and Stefanski Fired. Plus, DK's First 2026 Mock Draft.

Okay, before we start the show, just want to note, John Harbaugh got fired by the Ravens while we were recording this episode. So we are going to talk about that, but when we find out about it later in the episode, we'll have in the episode description the timestamp if you want to hear directly about that. But there's a reason that when we're talking about all the coach firings, we're not talking about John Harbaugh. So we will get to that. I promise. Okay, let's start the show. Welcome to the Ringer Fantasy Football Show. My name is Danny Hyphens. And I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlbeck. And we have a lot in the show today. A bunch of coaches got fired. We're going to go over that. And Danny Kelly has his mock draft. Mock. On the way now up on theringer.com. Yeah. Thank you. Got you picked up on that. Hi, if he doesn't get it. He hasn't seen Dumb and Dumber, which is what did you say to this day? The weirdest thing ever. I know. I'm I'm ashamed of it. Watch it and then listen to the rewatchables of Jennifer Lawrence. I live listening to that. Anyway, sorry, what were you saying? Well, you have a mock draft up at the ringer.com. Yeah, we can go and look and it's incredible. You got everything right. So we'll just go over that. I nailed it. Yeah, you're done. You're done. It's January 6th. Celebrate. Hey, hey's in the barn. You don't need to do any more draft work. You figure it's amazing. Yeah. And we're going to go through again, a ton of coaching news. The Raiders fired Pete Carroll, the Browns fired head coach, Kevin Stafanski, the Cardinals fired head coach, Jonathan Gannon, the Falcons fired for He-Mors, that coach and the GM Terry Fontano and their president and CEO of the team got promoted into a relevance. Dallas fired the defensive coordinator. The Giants did not fire Joe Shade, the GM. There's just a lot going on. The Dolphins didn't fire Mike McDaniel. So he gets the higher GM and then Tua was like, I was asked about playing for you. He said it would be dope. A lot happened. Stop allowing him to talk on camera. He hasn't said one normal thing in years. But first, just a quick bit of housekeeping. So starting on Sunday, we are going to be on Netflix. So this show is going to be on Netflix. If you listen to the show. The Big Time. Yeah, here we go. Big Time Fros, coming from this show. Big Time Fros. Big Time shows. Big Time Fros. Big Time Fros. So if you listen to our show as an audio product, you're good. Nothing is going to change. If you watch our show and Spotify, you're good. Nothing's going to change. Great. If you watch our show on YouTube, the show is not going to be on YouTube going forward. So there still will be a version. You can still watch on Spotify video. You can still watch on Spotify, the free version. So you don't have to have Netflix to watch our show going forward. You were able to watch on Spotify. But it'd be a lot cooler. You also could watch it on Netflix. You could watch on Spotify. Cooler if you did. Put it on Netflix too and like watch both at the same time. Double up. Yeah. I'll see Craig's face in 4K. Come on over to Netflix. No one wants to see that. So again, covering the playoffs, covering free agency. The draft, D-Care, DraftX, we're here at the ringer. We're going to be going through the draft, the offseason, the summer. We're going to be able to do that all year. So you can go type in ringer on Netflix. We're there and you can go and hit the little remind me button. And then, yeah, so that's Sunday. But also if it's an audio thing for you, then no changes. Enough plugs. Let's get to the real show here, which we're going to be honest. You know, it's a tough time for fans out there. It's a lot of anger, a lot of resentment, conspiracy theories. You know, was Kevin Stafansky trying to sabotage Shitter Sanders? January 6th. And let's be honest, this is the day, Craig. I think a lot of fans stormed the front offices of their teams. Oh, yeah. I mean, Austin Gale specifically. Austin Gale might have single-handedly gotten Pete Carroll fired. Do we have proof of life of Pete Carroll? Because Austin Gale has his pitchforks out for him. We were talking to him. He's a huge Raider fan before the show started. And he was like, I'm so excited for the show. I love the offseason. The offseason is the best time of the year. He's like, I'm a Raiders fan. And for us, fuck the season. Yeah, this is the show. This is the show. And there is a little bit of that. You know what I mean? It's like I like talking about fantasy football in August more than I do in September, like it's the best when you don't know what's going to happen in anything is possible. It's fantastic. And honestly, it starts today. There's an element. It's similar to roster baiting, Craig. That's right. I mean, which is what Aaron Rodgers does every push push. Just put your hands on your hips and look at your roster for a while. One hand on the hip. Eye contact. Yeah. Pro long. All right. So we're going to run through all the firing. There's been a good amount here. Is black. Do they call it Black Monday? Is that is that what we call it is called Black Monday, but a local colloquial colloquially. That's not right. Colloquially. Yes, that's it. Colloquially. You don't say that. I think you try colloquially. Oh, yeah. Colloquially. It's kind of a tongue twister. There are some words that are not one syllable or two. They're they're one and a half. Right. Colloquially colloquially is like four and a half. Colloquially colloquially colloquially. Hmm. I'm never going to try and say that again. No, we should. That's stuff. I'm putting that. Also, the word colloquially is not colloquially. It's just it's a great. That's a great. Very. That's ironic. It's not colloquially at all. That word's lost all meaning. It's a word fan. Like fancy, like English posh people would go and say, like, that's how they describe it. The normal people say. Well, speaking of Austin Gale being excited for the new chapter of the Las Vegas Raiders, should we start with the firing? Pete Carroll, my pick in the preseason for Coach of the Year. Dude, I mean, after week one, they beat the Patriots. They beat the Patriots. Starting number one, 14 wins. They went one and oh, beating the Patriots and then went what, two and 14 after that. One and 14 in the middle, and then they won again. And we get the inverse Chris Ola-Dokin for the chiefs. Chris Ola-Dokin. So they kept their GM, their new GM, John Spitek, who is a real person. I'm pretty sure Brady kept Spitek. Brady, right. Of course. So, yeah, the Raiders have the number one pick in the draft. They had just about as bad of a year as you could have hoped for. They had they were dead last in points, yards in first downs. Hyphens, what are your I guess do do either of you think this was a bad move? No. I'm probably like the biggest Pete supporter at this point in time left. I still think he's like, I don't know, maybe a good coach is like too far at this point, just because of obviously what happened. I think in the right situation, you still be very good coach, but nothing worked the way that they thought it would work like Pete came in and tried to change the culture. It sounds like there was just too much weird stuff going on in the background. It just didn't catch on. The players didn't buy in. They didn't have enough talent. I think it was the right move. I think they I mean, I was wondering if they would have the money to do this. But I think it was ultimately the right move to fire. I mean, I don't normally endorse firing a coach after one season, but I think they had to fire him. I mean, the whole Pete Carroll's whole thing is competitiveness, right? Right. The Raiders were not competitive. They just were 100 percent under him. And frankly, every decision Pete Carroll made was wrong. I mean, I like one again, I keep saying this. Six of the teams they played had the best game of the entire season against the Raiders, right? And you can try to blame Chip Kelly, the offensive coordinator, who Pete Carroll hired, but every decision Pete Carroll made was wrong. Like they traded for Geno Smith and Geno Smith led the league in interceptions. You're like, well, maybe it's the coach's fault. It's like, well, the quarterback coaches Pete Carroll's son. You're like, well, maybe it's the offensive line. I mean, Geno Smith led the league. It was the offensive line. Yeah. Like, OK, well, the coach is Pete Carroll's other son. And so you're like, well, maybe it's the running game. You're like, well, they drafted Ash and Gentie sixth overall. They were last in yards per carry with a running back taken sixth overall. You're like, well, awesome. He will be. Yeah. And guess what? Who's the run game coordinator? Also Pete Carroll's son. He has that many sons. Good. How many sons do we have? Oh, one in the run game. But you get the point. It's like he traded for the quarterback. His sons were in charge of the quarterback and the blocking and they led the league in sacks and picks and they just weren't a competitive team. Yeah, I agree with DK in that. Like if you just dropped Pete Carroll right now on a talented team, the Steelers, I think he could do a good job. Yeah, I think there are certain coaches like him where it's like if he has the talent and he can create that buy in, if he has kind of the right roster around him. When you have the number one pick in the draft and you're going to be bringing in a new quarterback and the whole idea is like, OK, we are resetting once again, we need to start fresh. It's hard to do that with the oldest coach in the history of the NFL. Yeah, not ideal. I think this is like going to sound like I'm defend, I don't know, like standing for Pete Carroll or whatever. But I do think like if you're looking at the parallels of the way that the Seahawks got started and versus the way that the Raiders got started, like I think number one, the Seahawks had a little bit more talent. I think it helped that Pete Carroll had overall control of everything in the organization where I don't think he had that in Las Vegas. It was more of like a collaborative thing between the GM and the owner and Brady and whoever. And then it did take like the stars lining a little bit of luck. Like if you remember in the Seahawks first their first season under Pete Carroll, it went seven and nine. They managed to make the playoffs. And then they had one of the most magical wins I've ever seen in my life to like ignite this flame. It's like, you know, the first year is kind of like the B's quake to beat the Saints, who are the defending Super Bowl champions in Seattle after they had gone seven and nine and made the playoffs. I was just all mad about this. And then they won. And so I think there was a little bit. There was an element of magic to that. And then after that season, the Seahawks started signing all these big free agents. It became a place where everyone wanted to go. There was excitement. They had an amazing facility in Seattle right on the water. Like I remember the vibe shift in the early part of the peak era. He was like doing things a lot of coaches weren't doing at the time. He's like playing music. You've got the college atmosphere. He's like out there running around. Yeah, he's like playing catch with the players standing up with his skin. Just thinking about it. I think that what I'm getting out here is it's kind of hard to recreate that magic. And he basically like the embers went out before they ever could catch flame here in Las Vegas. It just didn't catch on. It's hard to make two hit shows. You know what I mean? Totally. And say honestly, weirdly, the same thing that I related what I was going to say, which is sometimes I think the more I do this, the more I realize that success is when someone who's been doing your kind of thing for a long time and then the meta, the game within the game moves to where you're going. And like look at like the chiefs, for example, the 80 read, who for like 25 years never really had a great running game. And then the chiefs won three Super Bowls in a weird five year period where teams could kind of win the Super Bowl without really having a running game. Just a weird area of the NFL and they kind of dominated. And Pete Carroll had these beliefs of how you should play defense. And then the Seawalks became one of the best defenses ever and a strange period, a five year period of NFL history, where that was the perfect way to play. And I actually think sometimes it's like the right man at the right moment. It's like Winston Churchill wouldn't have been a good leader in peacetime, but he was great for wartime as he was looking for a fight his whole life. And it's like a lot of life is like that. They kicked him out right after the war. Yeah, right. They're like, we don't need you anymore. You can't stay in charge. And I think that's kind of what this is with Pete. He's trying to do this defense from 15 years ago. And he's like, well, I'm coaching guys up. And I'm like, on something that has not been in vogue for five years. Like, and I know and I harp on that point because they weren't competitive. And he was trying to win. The Raiders lost to the chiefs 31 to nothing. The chiefs had more played. The chiefs had more points than the Raiders had plays. Like the Raiders played the Browns and Shudder Sanders and his first career start for Shudder Sanders. They lost by 14 points in Shudder's first start. Like the Raiders played the Eagles. The Eagles defense had their best game in 70 years, seven zero. Geez. And the worst part about that is Pete Carroll was alive when they did that. But you know, and so I just he was a good coach, but he did not show at all that he wanted to adapt to what's happening in the game. Good coach, great legacy, bad fit, the right move. And going forward, the Raiders are now looking for their sixth coach. In six years, which is really bad. Damn. And how many of them are they still paying? Three? Dude, probably. This is what I was saying. I was like, I think Pete might survive simply because they don't want to pay another coach. But the next guy is going to have at least three seasons just because of that. For sure. Yeah. OK, let's the next firing here, the Browns fired Kevin Stafansky and they kept their GM Andrew Berry. I want to run through a little bit here. What's the fans he did with the Browns? He's been the coach since 2020. So one, two, three, four, eight, six seasons with him. And first, I want to start here, DK. I'm assuming you're kind of know you know where I'm going to go based on this question. But if you just have to blindly guess, like, how old do you think Kevin Stafansky is? How old does he feel to you? Fifty. He's 43. Oh, sorry. Sorry, Kevin. Sorry, Kevin. He this is like being a president. Being the being the coach of the Browns, ages you like really quickly. Before and after. Smoking cigarettes. Just looks like hell. But no, you you fell directly into my trap because I thought as well. He was like, I was being genuine, though, like that. I was like, 50. I don't know. Pete Carroll is seventy three and has the energy of a forty three year old. And Stafansky is like forty three and looks like a seventy three year old. Yeah, so I'm forty three, by the way. Yeah. I mean, not that I look young, but like you don't have much. For Kevin. Yeah. So it's like so Kevin Stafansky is forty three years old. He's one coach of the year twice on the Browns. Which I feel like does not get. We don't really talk about that. Coach of their twice period is like incredible on the Browns. The Browns like recently. They played three playoff games in the last six years, which is a lot more than most teams. I want to run through what Stafansky has done on the Browns. Bear with me here for a minute as I run through. Yeah, yeah. His first season on the Browns, twenty twenty, they went eleven and five. They made the playoffs. He won coach of the year. His quarterback the entire time was Baker Mayfield. They were eleven and five. Was that Baker Mayfield's second year? First year, second year. Third, third, third year. Second, third year. I think it was twenty eighteen. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when they beat the Steelers in the playoffs. Twenty twenty one, they go eight and nine. Mostly Baker Mayfield as the starting quarterback. Twenty twenty two, they go seven and ten with Jacobi Brissette and Deshaun Watson. So so he started his career eleven and five, eight, nine, seven and ten. Then twenty twenty three, he goes eleven and six, wins coach of the year again. And his quarterbacks that season were Joe Flacco for five games, Deshaun Watson for two, P.J. Walker for two, Dorian Thompson Robinson for three and Jeff Driscoll for one. They went eleven and six that year. P.J. Walker. They want they went to the playoffs. They lost to the Texans. Anyone coach of the year with those quarterbacks. The next year, three and fourteen. His quarterbacks are James Winston, Deshaun Watson, Dorian Thompson Robinson and Bailey Zappie. And this year they go five and twelve with Shador, Dylan Gabriel and Joe Flacco. So he's forty five and fifty six. His total record is one and two in the playoffs. To me, if this is like a, you know what, it's stale now. He's been here for too long. We just need we need fresh. We need fresh air. I get it. I think Stefansky is a great coach. And I think he like Hivitz, he's interviewing with the shifter reported today that he's interviewing with the Giants on Wednesday. He got he got job requests like immediately. Giants, I would be so angry if the Giants didn't hire him. I kind of think Giants will hire Kevin Stefansky because of what you just said. They're going to look at that you want made the playoffs with five quarterbacks to me. He is by far the best option out there right now. And it's probably the only guy who I genuinely feel like I know is a good coach. I want to start and end with I will always lean toward the right answer. Is Occam's razor is it was the Browns fault? Because just again, the Browns were reborn as a franchise in 1999. And that's like kind of the modern team. And in those 26 years, the Browns have had 10 GMs, 12 coaches and 42 quarterbacks in 26 years. So like it's probably the Browns fault. But the middle there is weird stuff with Stefansky, because on one hand, objectively, the most successful coach the Browns have had. Again, they have made the playoffs without him one time and with him twice. But also it's weird that the best game they had the entire, frankly, the best game the Browns have had in the modern era, Stefansky at Covid. It was like on his couch. You got television. The Browns have more playoff wins than the Steelers in the in the 2020s. That's crazy. Like because we're more than halfway through. Well, I know we're exactly halfway through. I guess I was Garrett, maybe it was just bitter. But the fact that after the again, Miles Garrett, quite the platform when you've just broken the sack record and they ask him about Stefansky, do you want to back? And he said, I mean, he he said, my experience with Kevin, like anything without ups and downs, unfortunately, more downs than ups. And then he just didn't say any like he kind of just had like a word soup. But didn't take. I mean, when Drake London is out here saying for the Falcons, he's like, I want Rahim Morris back with my entire heart. And then Miles Garrett is saying about Kevin Stefansky. I would have loved to make a little bit more noise in some different years, but it wasn't in the cards like he didn't want to. Jesus Christ, they won 11 games twice. They won eight games once. Like what the hell is he supposed to do? You know why they probably liked Rahim Morris, because it's been two seasons. And Rahim Morris is a great guy and a motivator and all that stuff. Miles Garrett has been with Kevin Stefansky fucking dogging it every year for half a decade. I understand that it's probably like the message is falling on deaf ears at this point. They're they're eight and 26 over their last two seasons. Of course. So Miles Garrett's probably like, yeah, I think this is a run its course. I don't think that means Stefansky's a bad coach. Go and we'll talk. We're going to do D.K.'s mock draft after we go through the coach stuff. But in terms of these coach openings, I don't know what you guys think is the best. I think the Browns one is the worst because there's a weird mix of pressure. Jim Schwartz, the defensive coordinator, if he doesn't get the job, like everyone's going to say he should be the guy that defences elite. But you the quarterback room for the Browns next year is to Sean Watson. Off of multiple Achilles injuries. Still there, by the way, still there. Hang on. The team next year going to be making $46 million off of multiple Achilles tears because he tore it and retore it and Shaddur Sanders. And then I assume also Dylan Gabriel, like that's your quarterback room entering next year for the Browns. We don't talk enough about how to Sean Watson retore his Achilles. He tore it twice. Right. And it saved the Browns from this contract because basically they insured to Sean Watson's contract for injury. And so they're getting reimbursed for game C, Mr. Injuries and cap credits the following season. It's like a tax refund. And so they're getting the $46 million they spent on this year credited to next year's cap, so they're getting it undone. So the Achilles surgery saved them. They're like inviting him to play all these extreme sports in the offseason. Yeah, it's like Jalen Hertz has no golf in his contract. Like to Sean Watson, it's like you have to go wakeboarding. They're like, you should try skateboarding. You guys have seen Tombstone, right? Yeah. You know, there's a scene. Billy Bob Thornton is like this really. He's just swearing he's a card dealer or whatever. And then Whitewater like takes him by the ear and like throws him outside or whatever. And then they see Doc Holiday out there. They start chatting. And then Billy Bob Thornton is just like standing there on the side. And then finally Doc Holiday or whoever is like, oh, I'm sorry. I forgot you were there. You may go now. I'm just like, that's like how I'm picturing like every practice with Sean Watson there. Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot you were here. You can go now. That's the limbs away. Yeah. I think he I would be very excited for you. I want the Giants to hire Kevin Stafansky. I feel like him him with that defensive line and with with Dart and neighbors in Scatiboo is great. We can talk about that. I mean, the Giants, you mentioned the Giants. I mean, they kept you of Shane is GM and I just want to shout out to Dan Duke and at the athletic who wrote, I just got to read this headline that they ran at the athletic. I can't. He went hard. The quote is the headline Giants decision to bring back Joe Shane is GM makes it clear they have no standards anymore. And they said journalism is dead. That is good for him. I mean, this is the best thing. This article by Dan Duke and at the athletic is the best article anyone has written on the Giants in 10 years. It's the best summary of it. I can't shout it out enough, but he points out. I won't go deep that deep into it. The Mera family that owns half the team is entrenched in the personnel department. They're unfireable and this is the problem. And whether Joe Shane is a. Figurehead or maybe he's incredible at his job. The point is like he's kind of cover for John Mera, who owns the team, his brother, Chris Mera, is like running the personnel department. John Mera's nephew also like runs the personnel department. He's like, and they're just entrenched over this. And the idea that they would keep a GM who, again, if you take out the four games, they like half of their last eight wins were in week 17 and 18 to lose the number one pick. Literally, their wits cost them the number one pick. Take those out. They're four and twenty seven the last two seasons. Are there any other parallels outside of Dallas? Because I know like Jerry Jones and his family kind of like run the Cowboys. Are there any other teams in the NFL right now that like the family guys are like involved? It's the Lakers. When also, I guess now the Colts a little bit with. Yeah, she's involved, but she's I think Carly or Sigurd Gordon is doing like the due diligence to work in departments to know how people's jobs work. The when the Lakers just sold to the Walton family or I forget. I've marked Walters, whatever his name is. The first thing they did when that deal closed is they fired all the bus family members from the Scouting Department. They were ousted like like like day one. It's just yeah, it's just asking asking for trouble. If the Giants sold to the Coke, the Coke brothers, the widow of the David Coke who want a minority share because they needed money. You guys know this? The Giants grandfather bought the team in 1925 for five hundred dollars. What's that in today dollars? Do you know? I don't know. Like that. That was the rumor is they was like horse racing money like the Steelers and Giants just like what a fucking they had a good day at the track and they bought a football team that was in debt and they have and they just have this now. Anyway, don't even get me started, but they're everywhere. No, I like getting sold. They'd only fired. I saw there was an interview. I didn't watch the actual interview, but I was kind of seeing the excerpt from it. There was a spot where Joe Shane was asked how he's going to find the next head coach. And there was he mentioned using AI. What? Help. Did you see this part? Did you see this? This was in the article. No, I think this was different. Hold on. Let me pull it up. This is a tweet that I saw. Says Joe Shane on a different approach this time and selecting another Giants head coach mentions the longer runway to do research, blah, blah, blah, watching Thursday coordinator press conference as well as using AI and certain in certain I can do that, too. I'm going to go to chat to you right now. Hey, who should the Giants hire as their next head coach to get right now? I'm like, dude, is there that many resumes? You're like using AI to like hold the resumes. Hold on to get searching the web. Number one, Kevin Stafansky. Done. OK. There we go. Why are you using AI? Your whole fucking job is to make this decision. DK, if you don't get up every morning and ask yourself, how can I leverage AI to do a better job? You're doing the wrong thing. I mean, sure. Just not a red blooded American. You don't ask chat, GPT. What to think? Number two is Mike McCarthy. Maybe these things need a better learning model. Anyway, they just I think, yeah. OK, we can move on here. The next firing we have is the Cardinals fired Jonathan Gannon after three seasons. They went three and 14 this year. Overall, Jonathan Gannon went 15 and 36. Arguably the Cardinals are more obvious firing than the Pete Carroll one. One of the more underrated disasters since this person got the job is Jonathan Gannon. The Cardinals have just been bad for a while now. And specifically with Jonathan Gannon, the defense never really took off as people expected. The Kyler Murray thing continued to be an absolute disaster and they shadow benched him. Austin had a stat the other day. Austin, throw it in the chat if you if you have it. So it was like his his success rates on defense over the three years. He was the coach of the Cardinals is like, I think 30th or worse every year. I can't remember off the top of my head, but the defense just never got better. I mean, this fight was it a firing or was it like a pew, pew, pew? You know what I mean? I don't know. But I think Gannon was fired in a nutshell. Like every team in the NFC West got better while he was the coach, except the Cardinals, who got worse. And like, I well, the technically, hold on, Austin, just send it technically, they did get better. Twenty three, they were thirty second in defensive success rate. Twenty twenty four, they are thirty first. And then this year, twenty twenty five, thirty. All right, give him twenty nine more years. That's like Kyle Pitts had a touchdown. One year to a second year, three, three, four, four, five. He's going to have fifteen. That'd be great. Feel like thirty touchdowns a year, eventually. I what happened to patients in this league? Do you know how many games the Cardinals won in their division this year? Fucking zero, zero. They went on six in the division. Their last four divisional games, the Cardinals are outscored by 90 points. And they in three years, the record inside the division is three and 15. And so like that's it. All the other NFC West teams are legit Super Bowl contenders. The Seahawks are the one seed. The Niners almost were the one seed and the Rams might be better than both those teams. And they're also in the playoffs. And like they're not even close. And the only excuse Jonathan Gannon has is, well, we're really injured. And that's true because the Cardinals actually have more players on I.R. than any team this year. And they probably had the most games lost of starters to injuries this year, like top three running backs and Kyler, Mary and Marvin Harrison, Junior. You know, you have the Niners with the second most injured team. And they literally were almost the one seed in the NSSO. I don't want to hear it like Kevin Stafanski went 11 and six with Joe Flacco and Dorian Thompson Robinson two years ago and still got fired. Like Jonathan Gannon, like it doesn't make the cut. I'm sorry. So do you think 100 percent after I have to. We should pour one out because he. One of the more quotable coaches the whole time we've done the show. The you got fire in your gut. You take the bus to work. Did you take the bus to work today? Because I'm good. Yeah. Unintentional comedy. We should really unintentional comedy coaches. We should. That is great. Because I also liked it. I have to also we saw I was with you, D.K. I saw him when you're outside St. Elmo's in Indianapolis and only talk seeing him in person. And he was having a conversation hearing him. I was like, oh, my God, he's Kendall Roy. Right. And hearing him in person. I was like, oh, like that's exactly who he is in real life. This is this is like one of those things where like Joe Shane, take note, man. A.I. is not going to help you with this. Like you're going to be you're going to be leading a team. You know, during the offseason, it's like 100 plus guys in the season. 53 men on the on the active roster. And those men have to respect you. And these are like the alpha dogs of the fucking alpha dogs in the world. Most of these players are just fucking, you know, you have to earn their respect. It just never felt like he could command a room. And we saw the videos is like so awkward. It's so weird every time he was interacting with a player, we're like, this is like the most cringe worthy thing in the world. I also think it's funny that if you see on Eagles Twitter right now, like everyone is like, oh, God, this was the easiest. Like we we could have told you this like immediately when he was hired. But everyone on Eagles Twitter like, hey, it's Jonathan Gannon, because he was fucking like interviewing. Yeah, he was like interviewing during Super Bowl week and all this shit. I mean, an underrated thing about coaches and interviewing is Jonathan Gannon interviewed and silently accepted the Cardinals job during the Super Bowl. Then the Eagles gave up 38 points and lost the game. And which never gets discussed. But it does get discussed by Eagles fans on Twitter. The rule, you can't do that anymore, right? The interviews. Yeah, but like it's like there's less window now. Yeah, which of these 31 billionaire owners made 20 billion dollars by like following all the rules there. But anyway, it's kind of a bummer because I like having one less team in the NFC West to worry about. So now if they get a good coach, I'm going to have to worry about the freaking Cardinals now. I think the other thing to mention here is the Cardinals over the. I don't know how many years they've been doing. The NFLPA has been doing these reviews of the different. There's like different aspects. They all get they all take a poll of like how the franchise leadership treats them, how the facilities are, how the medical staff is, the food, all that stuff. I think the Cardinals have been either last or second to last the last couple of years. So like from top to bottom, just so the organization is, you know, I think it goes under the radar that they're one of the worst organizations out there. I think everyone kind of like thinks guys, they were taking box lunch to get out of people's paycheck. They're like making people pay for daycare during game days and stuff. It's like, I don't know. The other one, I know we hit the Falcons one, but they fire Rahim Morrison. They fired the GM Terry Fonteno, but they actually also fired the president and CEO of the team, Rich McKay. Hmm. I think that flew into the radar. I don't know if it's a carer, but he's there for 20 years. So it's like, I feel like that's that now I'm actually mad right now from Arthur Blank, because he's in his eighties. Out of the out of these four, well, I guess we should include the Titans and the Giants, right? So we just went through Raiders, Browns, Cardinals and Falcons, fired their coaches after week 18. And then the Giants Titans fired their coaches midseason. That's it, right? Six openings right now. Yeah, I'm I'm the best one. I think I'm biased. I think the Giants are the best. All these teams are flawed, but like organizationally, too. The owners, if you start to think about it, they're all kind of weird. But I think the Giants are the best. You have Jackson Dart is like legit good and you have a left tackle. You have defense line pieces. Like there's more there with the quarterback than I think anywhere. Yeah, I think I would probably go Giants one. I think maybe you could talk stuff into Cam Ward. The Titans, too. And then it's Falcons three just because of the talent on the team. And then you're kind of bottom of the barrel with Browns Raiders. I would say Raiders neck. I would say the Raiders are there solely because you're the first man. You could take for an end. I guess it depends if you think Mendoza is better than Cam Ward. Do you think your name is better than Cam Ward? If Cam Ward was in this draft, we hadn't seen him in the NFL yet. Who would you take first? Hmm, off the top, off the cuff, I would probably still take Cam Ward. But I mean, there's going to be teams, I think, that do like Mendoza more just because of the type of passer he is. He's like a rhythm timing passer. I think I'm sure people are going to love the fact that he like was instrumental in elevating Indiana to a national football like contender. The Indiana thing is actually the most insane thing. India was just a punch line for literally like they were the worst team in college football for 150 years. And I think that's the exact type of player you need. It's not just Fernando Mendoza that's done that. They have a good team, but like, you know, a player that can elevate a program that has done nothing before, like that's exactly what you're looking for. Like it's like the narratives like make a ton of sense for him to go to the to the Raiders right now and kind of like help them, you know, pull that team out of the funk that they're in. But I think, you know, how he's how he's put together in terms of like his personality, his leadership, his the way that he plays football. I think there's going to be teams that love this guy. I think like tools wise, Cam Ward is way more exciting. And I don't know, what do you think of Cam Ward's rookie year? I don't really know what to make of it. I think overall it's promising, but I think it was great. I mean, it doesn't have to be like an amazing rookie year, but like he flashed. I mean, look at the gap between he flashed flashes and to trick me, he's probably going to win MVP this year. Cam Ward, I think he had more flashes than Drake may did. He played over snap. He ended the season in a sling, which is crazy. I think Cam Ward was great and got better. I think you saw it early in the beginning, but there was like, obviously, the Titans were awful. But Cam Ward consistently got better. I think he did the whole reason you draft guys for upside, like the uncoachable, unteachable, I'm going to make something out of nothing right here with Khmer DK just open and like Khmer DK feels like Kirk Lindbrand, Debo Samuel. Like he's unbelievable. And like the fact that you have a quarterback with like, I mean, I think DK is like a legit guy. And I think, you know, and everything else, there's enough of an offensive line there too that I'm very bullish in Cam Ward. Yeah, I think the takeaway is like, I'm willing to see this out. And there were moments if you if you check the stat sheet, Cam Ward looked terrible. If you actually watched Kim Ward, his receivers were terrible and dropped a lot of passes and he made a lot of incredible throws. That was like pretty high stuff. So yeah, I would say it's like a hopeful TBD with Cam Ward. Well, with that said, let's just go into the mock drafts. You have a mock draft up at the ringer.com. And for those who don't know, DK has our draft expert here for. I guess eight years and like you have an amazing nine years and you have an amazing big board that comes out like end of January and just a whole draft guide that comes out and it's awesome and you are the player comp king, which we'll get into later this month. But you have your first mock because now the draft order is set. And for the first whatever it is, the first 18 picks or whatever. Your first and last mock, right? Yeah, we're not doing it again. I got it perfectly. And who cares about the other teams that are doing the first mock of the year for you? It was. It's kind of fun to like sketch it out. I feel like mock drafts get made fun of a lot because there's a million of them and, you know, you get like three right and you're like the like the greatest mock draft. A little bit like talking about your fantasy football team and say, hey, look at my mock draft. It's like, hey, buddy, that that being said, I do think there's a lot you can learn from putting together your own mock drafts. I think you go do a mock draft and in like really think about what the teams need and what direction they might go. Like, you know, and it gives its instructive on what kind of players they have going into free agency, what guys on the team are getting older, what they have starting. It is like one of those things where the exercise of doing a mock draft is a good way of kind of like getting a big picture of the NFL at large. And so that's from that point of view, I think it's fun, even though I'm sure I'll get like zero of these right. Doing my drafts. It's the ultimate bell curve meme of like the dumb guy in the beginning and then there's like all the nerd stuff in the middle and then the wise guy at the end just agrees. Like it's the ultimate. Like I think they're going to take to get back out. He's ripped. And then you do all this and they go, well, you can't actually turn. Kind of turns like a battleship. He actually did that. Get your own this. And it's like, no, the CX took him. He's ripped. That's like me and DK's mock. I do my only mock the day before the draft. And he does 20 all off season. We didn't make a big enough deal about this. There's this competition called the Huttle Report. I forget how I think hundreds, maybe thousands of entries. And we joked about it and we didn't submit it on time because we forgot. We joked. Craig just did a mock the Wednesday morning before the draft with his sources. And there's two ways they grade it. Direct team to player comparisons and then just how many players in the first round. Craig got 31 of the 32 players in the first round, correct? Which would have won the competition. And I did that the year before. I got 31 out of 32. God damn thing. We would have won it two years around. No, as soon as I enter it, I'm going to get the worst grade of everyone in the world. Well, that's why we need to remember, but won't tell you. Yeah. On the flight to where was the draft? Chicago on the flight to Chicago. I did it. I threw headphones in for an hour. Kind of was pulling my sword. Like Dr. Strange. Yeah. A lot of things are coming in and out of my ears. I was like, I was doing a lot. It took about an hour. That's all I need. That's all you really need. You got to mind DK. You're like Tom Cruise and Minority Report, like putting all the different stuff on the screen and moving it around. They always need gloves. All right. Yeah. Do you want to just run through this? Mark, we'll start here with the Raiders first pick on the draft. Austin Carroll. A new beginning. You have the Raiders taking Indiana quarterback Fernando Mendoza. Yeah. And mainly for the memes. That's what I'm looking for. Fernando Mendoza, kind of like a dorky, you know, white bread dude. He speaks in like LinkedIn paragraphs. OK. Well, you know what I mean. He's like in the Kirk Cousins like area as like kind of like a dorky guy. Kirk Cousins look like 50 cent. Yeah. And him going to Vegas is just going to be the memes are going to be out of control. Really enthusiastic Capitol Hill intern. Yeah, totally. It's like real eager beaver. Eager beaver is exactly right. You know, I don't know. I think there's the jokes about like, oh, my God, Fernando Mendoza in Vegas is like the weirdest fit. Maybe it's great. Maybe you need somebody who needs someone who's not going to want to leave the facility. You know, if they start an NBA team in Vegas, you probably don't want James Hardin. Like maybe Fernando Mendoza is the perfect pick for Las Vegas. It's the ultimate like. He's just going to go to like Wizard of Oz at the sphere every night. That's all he'll do. He's going to go to circus circus and, you know. Dude, the fact that he could just talk like that after just absolutely throttling and like at the end of the of the Bama era of college football, and he just like pants is them. And I know it's the whole team in the defense, but like he is. He is really good. And yeah, you don't have to have a final answer here. But who how would you explain who's his comp ish or what is the mix? Like how would you explain for Nato Mendoza? So shout out Nate Tice. His first comp was Matt Ryan. And I can definitely see that. And I've seen the Jared Goff comp thrown out a lot too, because Goff, if you remember, he was the first pick and Goff has he's not mobile. And I don't think Fernando Mendoza, he's like, I think he's more mobile than Goff, but he's not like super mobile. Yeah, I see it. But like he's more of like, you know, he's the he's in that category of a drop back, eat your back foot timing, accuracy, throw with anticipation, distribute the football. He's got he's got a pretty deep ball. He's been good on like the money downs. And so like there's a lot to like there. But I think that's kind of it's like the CJ Strauch, Jared Goff, Matt Ryan, pocket passer sort of archetype, I think is kind of what you're looking at. I'm excited to form my entire opinion of him based on this Oregon game coming up. I do the fact that was going to say the fact that the guy that they're going against in the college football playoff is playing Oregon. And if he enters the draft, which we'll get to. But Dante Moore, Jr. the quarterback from Oregon would be. What do you think you see? The I guess Mendoza, he could be the first pick. Yeah, I think it's like it depends on the team. It depends on what they're looking for. I think Dante Moore is like the classic. The tools are better. It's kind of like exactly the conversation we just had with like Cam. Cam Ward, it's like the tools are better. And I think the upside of whatever that means is probably like higher. But Dante Moore, one year, one year and change as a starter. So there's not as much film out there on him. I think the impression right now I have is that people will go back or that that Dante Moore will go back to school. But who knows? Craig said as an offhand comment that the Jets getting the second pick means Dante Moore will go back to school. And it's been rattling around my head a week. I'm like, that just sounds true. We'll see what happens, obviously. I mean, he's only played one real season in college football. Like as a. So also, Oregon is not short on cash. No, no, no. Phil knows. Six million bucks or more to come back and try to win another national championship if they win this year. And it's like, and you want to go to the Jets. I mean, the caveat there is like that doesn't guarantee the Jets won't be terrible again next year. And you might just end up on the Jets anyway. I know, right? Let me read your email from Nick, because I think that this sums up many people are thinking as they listen. And Nick wrote, I was considering reaching out just because of, you know, Craig having that thing of like, Dante Moore, go back to school to avoid playing for the Jets, which isn't like Peyton Manning did that. He went back to Tennessee, because the Jets are the first pick. Good job. So Nick wrote, what would you do not advise anyone to play for the Jets? However, fifty two million dollars is fifty two million dollars, which is the projected guaranteed money for the number two pick this year. It's very different. Yeah. And so Nick writes something Dante Moore might not get if he waits until next year for a better situation with potentially more depth or potentially getting drafted by another bad team. Seems like a potentially bad business decision with the draft class next year that might be better with quarterbacks overall and overall talent. People like Jeremiah Smith are there. So maybe now is an excellent time to sell that highly drafted quarterbacks drafted by the Jets and Browns like Baker Mayfield and Darnell and Judo Smith have succeeded elsewhere. And Nick says, I've never been offered fifty two million dollars to do anything. But if I had the opportunity to be the number two pick in the draft or go back to Oregon and make good money, I would go to the draft, which I mean, that's yeah. Of course. That's like, that's always the argument is like, you're it's a it's a risk to go back. You could get hurt. Things change. You don't play as well. There's better quarterback competition in the draft. And then before you know it, you're like the twenty eighth pick and you're making half the money, which is totally fair. I put like, I don't know. There's multiple ways to see it. I actually disagree with Nick. I think this is exactly what NIL has changed because you know what sucks ass, which, you know, not in theory, but in reality is being the quarterback for the Jets. You know what's really sick? Being the quarterback for Oregon and getting like six million bucks to do that. The thing he's going to get. He's getting two and a half now, two and a half million dollars, I believe. Now, NIL reporting is weird. He could probably get four. Maybe you might push for five million dollars for Dante Morton State. I think in addition to the money, there are real reasons that he would go back, which is to get more experience at the college level. He's only been a starter for one year and change. So basically he started a couple years or sorry, a couple of games for UCLA, but then sat behind Dylan Gabriel last year. Yeah, he's had five games for UCLA two years ago and then out since then he's played 13 games. The the history of guys that have played that few starts in the in college going to the NFL is like it's littered with guys that just, you know, just never developed. So I think it's like he has it's more than just purely I get more money if I go to the NFL. Like you're thinking about your entire career here. Like I just need the reps. There's a larger conversation we're going to have about quarterbacks and just there always was an apprentice era where guys would and it used to be you'd go to the NFL and you'd sit for a couple of years and that was normal. And now it's like you're going to play college football for a lot of money if you're good. And that's going to be the apprenticeship. And I think that's kind of what we're going to see the guys going back. But if it was any other team, I feel like we would say, well, I don't know, Craig. I mean, I I I feel like we're in that era now. Like it's we're in the post Anthony Richardson era and where the last two years. And then we have one good example of an inexperienced guy reverses it. But I think we're in this for the medium all. I agree. I think the combination I say what you will about NIL and how you think that's affecting college football for this specific example. If this makes quarterbacks stay in college a little longer, develop a little longer because they can get paid. Stay at the same school a little longer because they can get paid and then develop more and come into the league a little bit more prepared and ready. And it makes this whole rookie quarterback drafting a little bit more consistent and predictable. And these guys can step into these teams and actually be productive in year one and two. I think that's kind of just like a floor razor across the board. It's better if you're a fan of Oregon and it's better if you're a fan of whatever team takes Dante more next year. It'll be good and bad because Brady put eloquently because again, Brady, when he's not announcing a game, it's like still the best person talking about football and he was like, you used to learn a program and now you learn a playbook and now guys are going to transfer three or four times and learn to play. You know what I mean? It's like kind of going to stunt development in some ways and teams are going to NFL teams are going to have to adjust. The funny thing about the jet specifically for Dante more is I think if it was any other sign on the door other than the Brown to be like, this is a great situation. Garrett Wilson's a legit number one receiver. Mason Taylor is a highly thought of prospect to tie down to a solid rookie year. The offensive one, they've first run pick a left tackle. They've first run pick a right tackle. They've first run pick a guard. They have like pretty John Simpson. Like they've good offensive line. The problem is they're the jets. They haven't had a good quarterback since Joe Namath. And then this we got an email from his name is Sam Teetz. And Sam Teetz, he he's he covers the chief. So I'll give him this fall. Give him the shout out. Nice. Sam Teetz. Sammy. Yeah. You know, but Sam Teetz sent me that I couldn't believe this. Calvin Johnson's best 17 game span. He had more receiving yards than the jets had passing yards in 17 games this season. And in that span, Calvin Johnson had as many 200 yard receiving games as the jets had 200 yard passing games this season. I know it's not just like, oh, the jets are the jets and you can't go there because it's like the ownership. And there are like actual tactile reasons why you wouldn't want to go to the jets out because I think you made a great point. Like there are pieces. I don't know. Garrett Wilson, the offensive line, breeze hall, whatever. But I love that there is still just like, yeah, but it's the jets. And that like actually factors into decisions that this like hex this cloud that hangs over this team actually is influencing the way players make I think that's hilarious. And it still is like a little bit of, you know, people say that analytics ruin sports and I love that there's still a little bit of like, yeah, but it's the jets, it's the Browns. Yeah. It's like there's a certain teams have a certain DNA that they can't like escape. And I think with the jets in particular, it's like the ownership. It permeates things. The other thing I think that's really applicable here, applicable colloquially colloquially sounded better. That is that it sounds like the jets. I don't know this for sure, but it sounds like the jets are keeping Aaron Glenn as as head good. They definitely are. And I mean, you have that's going to happen. That's going to that's going to go for another year and then they're going to fire them. And so like if you're, you know, a quarterback, any quarterback coming into the NFL and you're like, I might I'm probably going to go number two to the jets and after a year, the head coach is going to get fired. And then we're going to have some other random fucking guy that I don't know come in, maybe he'll like me, maybe he won't. Also Garrett Wilson, probably gone. Yeah. Breece Hall gone after this year. And then it's like, but these are these are like more tangible things. Like, I guess it's not 100 percent certain that they'll fire and Glenn after one more year. But like that's kind of like the writing on the wall here is that not only not only you're going to the jets, but you're going to the jets. They're probably going to have a new coach after one year. Then you're going to have a new fucking playbook, a new system. Maybe you don't get along with the new coach. Maybe you don't get along with like whatever. So like there's legitimate. I think there's legitimate reasons to like not to go back to school. But that being said, I did I did put Dante Moore here to number two to the jets because we don't know if he's coming out or not. I think he there's a chance he might. Here's the truth. None of us possess a fraction of the confidence required to be this good at quarterback. And so they probably like the truth is other people in their life may think about it, but the players don't give a fuck. It's like, you know, they're just like, you need so much confidence to be this good at quarterback that worrying about it is almost a red flag. All right, third pick here, Arizona Cardinals, you gave them Spencer Fano, the tackle out of Utah. I have no thoughts. You didn't like you didn't like his tape, Craig. You don't want to watch Utah tackles all college football season, Craig. Not a lot of youths tape for me. So there's two Utah tackles in this class that are the two youths. The two youths. The two youths. Toots. The toots. I generally have an issue with with somebody taking a line. Then like anytime you're like tackle, I'm like, great, great pick. I think this is going to be another me and potatoes after. I think we talked about this last year where it's going to be like a lot of edge players, a lot of defensive tackles, a lot of offensive tackles. Maybe throw out a few guards. It's just going to be one of those drafts where it's like less sexy and just more just like, I want a guy who's really huge and he can block. Well, the question I have for you here, DK, is, is if Kyler Murray is not on the Cardinals next year, is, is there a quarterback at three that Arizona could take if Dante Mour and Mendoza are gone or a no shot? No. Or a quarterback that Chet's can take if Dante Mour goes back to school. Yeah. Right now, the other guy that's like in the conversation is Ty Simpson, but I don't think he's going to declare based on recent play. Sure. I got benched. Let me. There's other guys in the class, but I think generally speaking, most of them are considered like day two guys at this point. I got a late, late round one. Nussmeyer, Drew Auler. I don't actually, I think some of these guys are going to transfer. And Drew Auler had a bad injury this year, right? Yeah. He missed a lot of years for Penn State. And I believe, I mean, Garrett Nussmeyer was benched at one point this season, right? I mean, that went from like fringe number one pick thoughts. Yeah. Shadow. I liked him a lot last year. Yeah. Nussmeyer and Aler, there was a time when those two were expected to be, you know, top five picks in the draft. The thing with Ty Simpson is just like before and after Halloween, it would almost be better if he was hiding an injury because honestly, a real demerit for loyalty because Ty Simpson went to Bama and waited his turn and waited his turn and got the job. And honestly, if Ty Simpson doesn't declare for the draft, I think he wouldn't start at Bama because they have this six foot six gawky Trevor Lawrence clone. I mean, honestly, the most interesting part of the Bama Indiana game was when the back of quarterback came in and through freaking lasers. And I was like, there's no way Ty Simpson's playing for Bama next year unless he's hiding an injury. So the idea that Ty Simpson would enter almost because he couldn't win back the old Bama job is just like such a red flag where I'm like, how could you possibly pick this guy if he couldn't outdo the five star behind him at Bama? So, you know, maybe he's a back end of the first. But yeah, it's a meat and potatoes draft. It's like there's one quarterback in Mendoza. If Dante Moore comes up, there's two. Frankly, the drama is if Dante Moore comes out, there's no drama. It's Mendoza one and Dante were two. And then Ty Simpson maybe is like a Tyler Shuck back early second round pick or late first. And then other than that, it's freaking lineman, man. Yeah, there's some receivers mixed in like so. Let's just get to the next two picks here. You have the Titans at four and the Giants at five. You have them both taking linebackers for the Titans. You gave them Arvell Reese out of Ohio State. And for the Giants, you gave him David Bailey. Well, Pat, like outside linebacker really pass. Pass rusher's edge. Arvell Reese is kind of like a linebacker slash pass rusher hybrid type of guy. Super explosive, super flexible, like ascending type player, super exciting. Hyphens actually had the Giants having him before the Giants one in week 18. So sorry about that. David Bailey is a good consolation pick, though, because he's just pure speed off the edge, you know, high energy player, tons of pressures, tons of sacks, tons of tackles for loss. He's always in the backfield. These it's going to be very interesting. Kind of like what happens in the top of the draft this year, I think, because some of these guys like Arvell Reese, a little thin framed, but there's they could be. He could be picked apart at like because he's not quite big enough and strong enough. You know, there's there's a bunch of pass rushers this year that are like short armed guys that I think teams are going to be walking about. We're going to be talking about arms so much this pre this off season. It's going to be it's going to drive you crazy. Going on. Yeah, our this is this will be the draft where we have to fall through on the joke that we actually should just get these guys tailored. We want to find out their suit sizes and that that'll get inside track. I mean, I mean, well, the number one, Ruben Bain, the Miami pass Russia, who was considered like maybe a top pick in the draft. And then there was a it's funny to see a rumor about our length. You think that AI could figure that out, but there's a rumor that Ruben Bain's arms are under 31 inches long, which I always laugh saying that out loud. But I think I think Dane Bruehler. I don't know if we're talking about word, but it's like saying that that's what he's hearing. And so like it's. Second percentile in the NFL, like literally at 98 percent of it's like you just don't really see pass rushers in the NFL with the shortest. Right. It's like T-rex out there. Yeah, it's. So there's like there's going to be a lot of that. So it was actually when I was putting together this mock, I was like, I don't know, the top 10 could be anything really. It just depends on what teams have, you know, like these thresholds that they want for certain players in terms of like their arm length or their weight or their body mass or whatever. There's going to be a lot of that kind of conversation, which I look forward to. So it's going to be great. The question I have for you, DK, is less the individual players like get the outside linebacker, our velvety to Tennessee. I'm more curious about why you decided to go with defense for Tennessee versus offense, because, you know, you have Cam Ward and the receiving room, you know, is not great. Yeah. Is there a is there a receiver in this draft? You got like a car and L Tate going deeper beyond him. Like, is there any guy you think could be considered as like a top five pick in this draft or not really from a talent? No, I do. I think the two guys I've seen that people, I think, consider the top two receivers in the draft are Jordan Tyson from Arizona State and Carnal Tate from Ohio State. I personally really like Carnal Tate. He is fucking fun to watch. Craig, I bet you'll like him a lot. He's one of those players that he reminds me a little bit of Devontae Smith, just like a little bit thicker version of Devontae Smith, where he's like really long, really twitchy, smooth, route runner, and he just skies over dudes and catches everything. So he he's going to be to me, I think if I was going to make my list right now, he'd be my number one receiver. I just really liked him when I watched him and I think he's a really, really good player. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if he went number four or even really number three, I guess the Cardinals, although they probably don't they don't go for a highly good Ohio State receiver again. Yeah, the new great, but you know, I think Carnal Tate would be a guy that would not surprise me, go on the top five. I guess Tyson, Jordan Tyson is another one that might go that high. But he's got like injury history that I think some teams might block at. Again, this is like it was actually kind of hard to make the top 10, because I think there's like reasons that you can move every guy down. A lot of variants. I think there's a lot of variants and outside of, frankly, the quarterbacks at the top. And I think there's going to be variants. I agree that Spencer, like Fano, the tackle, and then I even like the other Miami tackle and see if I don't butcher it. But it's it's Maui, Maui, Maui, yoga. No, we go. Francis, Maui, yoga from Miami. I really like him a lot. But he's but he is the classic. Some teams are going to see him as a guard because he's a little he's not quite as tall and lanky and long as like a lot of NFL tackles that you see. So, you know, this is the discussions we're going to have. But I really liked him a lot. I think like hyphens, a lot of people are going to think Arviel Reese is the best player in the draft. But, you know, because of his size and everything, you might go down a little bit. I'll tell you the best player. Same same with what you're going to say here, what Caleb Downs might be one of the best players in the draft, but no one's going to take a safety. Well, I think Caleb Downs is the best player in this draft. And if you want to say quarterback, fine, getting out ahead of it. Take the quarterbacks out of it. Caleb Downs is the best player in the draft. And I am saying this now. And if I future me changes my mind, then I hope that I hope this me punches that one in the face because Caleb Downs is like, you know, Craig, you always joke, like, we could probably do a better job at the draft in January. If we just stopped it right when the games ended and we just watch the games and we're like, no more information, please outside of tell me if their needs are fucked. When I watch Caleb Downs, it's like he when he was at Alabama, it's like, well, he's as good as any Bama defensive back, I can remember. And then he transfers to Ohio State and they win the national championship. And it's like Caleb Downs is obviously the best defender at any position in America. And then it's like all off season, it's going to be, well, you can't take a safety in the top 10 and then in the rookie year, it's going to be like, oh, wow, Caleb Downs is like already the top two safety in the NFL. And I I'm thinking of abandoning positional value altogether. Oh, I think it's going to be a huge conversation this year, because Jeremiah, there's a huge gap between like Jeremiah Love at running back and the next best running back and teams are going to talk themselves into it. And the thing about positional value, I think it's very misunderstood is people will be like, because the the base point of it is like, well, you want to I mean, quarterback, obviously is important, but like, well, a left tackle or, you know, it's a mix of supply and demand, but also well, if the Justin Jefferson is like the best receiver in the NFL and he's worth like, say, $40 million a year and you find a rookie who can be like that at like $8 million a year, then you're getting $32 million a surplus value. The problem when people apply that blindly is you should be factory in. What is the percentage chance you think that will happen? So Caleb Downs, you're like, I think there's a 90 percent chance that Caleb Downs is actually going to be worth the top end of the market. That changes it when you're like, well, let's just take a higher paid position. But like, but the guy's probably going to suck. My confidence in Caleb Downs, you never know. I love Jeff O'Cood out of state. I am as confident in Caleb Downs, honestly, not since Kyle Hamilton. And that's the exact same conversation. Kyle Hamilton fell to the Ravens because he's a safety and he was ran a four or five. How fucking stupid does that seem now? How many people play faster than Kyle Hamilton? Oh, my God, guys, news. John Harbaugh got fired. Get the fuck out. Ian Rapaport, Ravens, a long time decorated head coach, John Harbaugh, parting ways after days of discussion. They're parting ways. This is like Pete Carroll. We're going to not have you be the head coach anymore, but we're parting ways. Mutual separation. Huge. So Harbaugh was the second. I don't know. Harbaugh out. I was the second-year coach in the NFL. So Steelers, Mike Talman with the Steelers was number one. And Harbaugh was hired in 2008. I think this was brimming for a little bit. I'm curious what you think, D.K. The first 18 seasons. Wow. The first thing I think of when I come to this, we were talking about like needing a new voice eventually. I think the truth is sometimes when you get really close multiple times, you can only kind of it kind of breaks teams sometimes. And I think the Ravens, I mean, 2019, they went 14 and two and they don't want to play off game with them. And they had the best team that year. And then. Oh, my God. Yeah. 2023, they had the best team and they should have beat the Chiefs in the FC Championship game. Zay Flowers gets chopped at the goal line and like fumbles the game away. They have the fewest design running back carries in the history of the Baltimore Ravens and they lose on the doorstep. The Super Bowl, they were like the only team that be number one to defense and overall DVOA and not make the Super Bowl. And then they don't. And then next year, they get further and further away. Conference title game and then your divisional round you lose and then you don't make the playoffs. And I think, frankly, about how they got brain drained. And I don't know why it took so long for the NFL to brain drain the Ravens, but Mike McDonald leaves on defense and something Zach Orres and really the same coordinator and like the Joe Ortiz, your freaking doppelganger goes and runs the Chargers and people need to go there. And then suddenly I have like six doppelgangers, I swear. You do. It's just a white bald white guys. He's your no, but he's your evil twin older brother. Yeah, this is so interesting because I've seen so like the last few days. Like, obviously I said on the other show, I think Harvard's going to get fired. And then I kind of walked it back because I was like, Oh, is that not like something people believe? Because I was just kind of like, you know, truthfully, I was just basing it. I was talking to my buddy, Jay, who is a Ravens fan. And he was just like, yeah, I think it's like time. That's kind of like what I was like going off of more or less is like just the general gist that it feels like they need to move on. And so I was like looking at, you know, basically we'll kind of check it out like Ravens Twitter and stuff. And there'd been rumors the last couple of days that they were actually going to fire Todd Monk and Zach or and keep John Harbaugh. And everyone was like, what are we doing? You know, DK, you joke. The worst case you joke about all the analytics for fourth down decisions. The perfect model would just be recreating what all the fans of the opposing team sometimes. Man, yeah, sometimes you just need to like get the, yeah, like the bigger view. Yeah, like other your opponents figure out what they want to the opposite. Craig, you're a Steelers fan. You've rooted against John Harbaugh and the Ravens for 17 or 18 years. Gut check. Do you are you happy? Are you like more or less afraid of the Ravens firing John Harbaugh? Are you relieved by this or scared by this? Probably scared because I I mean, I'd be scared if I were you too. If it's now looking at where Kevin's to fancy is going to fucking land. Oh, oh, oh, no, dude, I mean, I mean, the giants are going to hire John Harbaugh. I'm telling you that right now. You think so? Well, if you're John Harbaugh, do you want to go to the giants and the Titans? The only thing he'd be scared of is the ownership entrenched in the front office. But I don't think that outweighs. I think what about the fans? Ski and the giants are going to want John Harbaugh. Let me tell you something. They're going to talk and pretend for some shit. They'll interview some people that do the Rooney rule and sat there interviewing Stafansky tomorrow, apparently guess what? The giants are going to hire John Harbaugh. They're I'm telling you right now. And that's what mainly because the giants love the idea of bringing in somebody with that like that name tag. That prestige. Maybe let me rephrase. Maybe Harbaugh turns the giants down. Yeah, I promise you the giants prefer candidate will be someone that I mean, after Pat Shermer and Brian Dable and they would love someone who was a head coach. Yeah. I mean, look, the Ravens have been underperforming. You know, we talked about how it's like it grew stale in Cleveland, even if Stafansky was maybe a good coach. It's kind of the same thing in Baltimore where it's like they're just like they were just doing it in the playoffs rather than the regular season failing. But the fact that they never even got to a Super Bowl with Lamar Jackson, it's just one of those things where it's like eventually it has to run its course. Maybe it's similar to Pete Carroll in Seattle, like ending. I think it's very similar in a lot of ways. It's just like your voice. At some point, it's like you you're doing the same speech every year and you're doing the same program every year, the same strategy. It's just like it just gets stale. I mean, think about like if you look at what the Steelers have done in this decade and what the Ravens have done in this decade, the Ravens are basically only averaging one more win per year than the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2020s. And the Steelers have been rolling out Mitch Trubisky and Mason Rudolph and Kenny Pickett. And in the Ravens, I've had Lamar Jackson this entire time, and it's never really materialized to anything. So, yeah, I think you're right. And here's the thing with the Ravens. I think, you know, it's funny. My my mom, who's like late friend, had this saying of like, they wear people who keep the crazy on the inside. You know, I like people who are the crazy on the outside. Sure. The funny thing about the Harbour Brothers is Jim Harbour wears the crazy on the outside. You know, straight up crazy. I think John is very chickens are nervous birds, guys. He walked that back. He then raised chickens. But they taste pretty good. He kept the coop. But I think John. I think John is very nervous. But I think John, even the chickens, though, or is he just raising up, he's raising the eggs. Dude, he told the eggs. This is we should. The fact that we're having this conversation is just more than enough to point out that he's a crazy person. OK, he's great. But my point with John Harbour is like, I think John has just as much of that in him, but it's a little more composed. But the difference, I think, is that the Ravens have had way more sloppiness in certain areas than you would want from someone who's been there so long. And it's like you could start to see the cracks in the fishers. I think, frankly, John Harbour getting there. We're just coaching decisions, certain timeouts, certain end of game situations that I think were just being made up by Lamar. Having said that, I think the judge and I are. I think I would take John Harbour. Like if you just if every coach can't get thrown a hat in the ring, I'm like, give me John Harbour off. Yeah, but now you have to start talking about who's the OC going to be. I don't fucking care. Let him figure it out. I'm like, I mean, it does matter a lot. OK, but like you got a young quarterback. I understand that. But like the most important person in the building, more than John Harbour. On who shows up if Clint Kubiak shows up to the meeting and he's like, oh, well, he's like the most prepared candidate we've ever seen. This is like what Sean McVeigh sounded like. Then like, yeah, you should probably hire him. But the. I don't know. The truth is that when people are doing offensive stuff, offensive coordinators, it's like that's not your job anymore. You have such a larger operation you're running and like John Harbour has done that. But I got it. I actually trust Steve Bishadi, the owner to make the decision. I kind of think he's the only owner that I'm sure is like it seems like a value that I I've always I never really care much about the bios for anyone on their team websites, but I've always been interested that Steve Bishadi's the owner of the Ravens on the Raven site. It starts with Steve Bishadi wants consistency. His goal is to have the Ravens in the playoff hunt every season, avoiding dips that plague some franchises. And a lot of that's a lot of other people's bios are kind of bullshit. But like that's been crazy true. The Ravens went to Baltimore in 96 and they've basically been a Super Bowl contender like two out of every three years. Do you feel like we just talked about right? It's hard to do it twice. If you're the Game of Thrones guys, it's hard to make another one. Three body problem. Yeah. You know, do you feel like? Harbour is like the same way when Jim Harbour came to LA and everyone's like, this is going to work like he's going to win 10 games every year, because that's what the Harbos do. Do you feel that way about John Harbour at 63 coming to the Giants after the Ravens? Do you need a sabbatical in college for a few years? It's crazy that he's not sabbatical, but exactly halfway in age between Mike Tomlin and Pete Carroll. Is there any chance that Harbour takes a year? If he doesn't like the Giants job, yeah, it's for a better opportunity. Well, you know, you know, what's interesting is like we joke. We talk about Andy Reid, you know, getting a little long in the tooth and stuff like that. I mean, I feel like Harbour used to work on the Eagles. They need to read. They're very close. You wonder if they take a year off, Andy Reid calls it and then Harbour steps into the Chiefs. Yeah, but that would imply that Andy Reid's going to see Mahomes tears ACL and hang it up. I think I do think Matt Nagy is going to be the guy waiting in the wings for the Chiefs job. That's a good call. I think in three years, five years, he makes a face, but I'm like, I'm just like, oh, God, that nothing could be less like tantalizing. But any of you is not going to get fired from the Mahomes area. He's going to pass it on. He would leave. He would retire. I think my point is Matt Nagy will probably never take another job and wait and hopefully get that Chiefs job. And I think they would transition it internally. Maybe I. I this is a bigger question here, which I think is really interesting is who is who is going to be the Ravens coach? Because we have a two-time MVP in the March accent. This is still a very talented team. Where are they going to go with this? Do you think they would hire from within like Todd Monkin would be the coach? Because he's getting head coaching interest. No, I think it's fascinating. Offensive horrible. I love Todd Monkin. He's like a football. He's getting head coaching interest is all I'm saying. Like the Browns already gave Joe Flacco to the Bengals. Why don't they just give Kevin Stefansky to the Ravens? D.K. The Monkin thing gets to the other reason I think this happened. I think it's one third. It's been a long time. One third, maybe horrible. I had, you know, there's stuff going on in the scenes we didn't know about. But it's one third. I think this is kind of a little related to when the Titans fired by Grable. And it was Amy Adams, Strunk or Amy Adams, Strunk, the owner of the Titans was fucking pissed that Matt LaFleur was crushing it in Green Bay. And Matt LaFleur like was absolutely had like the best winning percentage since John Mattet, the bell of the ball. Won 13 games every season. She's like, we let this guy go and our quarterbacks suck. And she fired Mike Frable and fired him off. She fired Frable. Good guy. Yeah. But and like, well, I want like an offensive guy like Brian Kellan. I think part of this is that Mike McDonald just got the one seed in the Seahawks. I'm not saying this the entire reason, but the Ravens defensive coordinator, which is interesting. Obviously, the Ravens defense was the quiet engine. The offense with Lamar has peaked in valid MVPs, but also looked untenable for portions, almost in a like an elevator. Letting McDonald out of the building is that's got a sting. Yeah, it's like you want if basically they probably talk to you. You know, I know, I know. I want to promote McDonald's. It's like an impossible decision. But whatever does it. But in retrospect, you wonder if you should. Is a coordinator rises up, becomes a star and they have to leave. Yes, but it bothers you in retrospect. And I think that's the fear of having. But then you make decisions on that later. It does happen. Yeah. So you right now, you'd rather have John Harbaugh than Kevin Stafansky. Twenty years younger. That's crazy to say. Wait, how old is Harbaugh? Sixty three. Wow. I would have guessed like 50. I think I'd rather have Stafansky. Maybe that's an insane thing to say. It's so funny because it's like it gets to the nature of like the truth is. And we talk this whole time is like it's it's hard to know why things succeed. Even look at it like well, there's so many moving parts. And I. The truth. And this is maybe a cop out. You I want to hear their plans like, yeah, John Harbaugh. I'm like, all right, was a connected man. I want to hear his vision for Jackson Dart. And then you'd hear it. And I want to hear Kevin Stafansky's vision for Jackson Dart. I. You know what? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe just want to bring John Harbaugh in because I got to tell you something. I don't like now I'm thinking about it. The mayor of family might be like John Harbaugh. Let me tell you something. It wouldn't be good for Joe Shane. I don't think of John Harbaugh. John, why are you here? What's I got to say about this? Yeah, yeah, that's kind of like go get your shine box. You know what I mean? It's going to be like Joe Shane sits John Harbaugh down. He's like, how are you planning to leverage AI to make the giant? How are your prompts? So, John, have you been? You know, have you seen Boris Johnson, the British politicians? They're just the brakes. He's like, I. He calls it like I. I like he spells. He's reading it. He reads it. I. Yeah. I. But Joe Shane. I. John Harbaugh. Oh, that's good. It feels weird to go back to a mock draft now, but I know. Well, I had I had a point. I wanted to say about the mock draft if we're ready to move on yet. Or do you want to do you want to linger on Harbaugh? I wanted to ask you guys that Joe Shane running the Giants search. Do you remember that scene in Hard Knocks where they were all those different kids were suggesting different quarterbacks? Yeah. Do you think we're going to get another one? It's going to be like one kid's like, I want John Harbaugh. And the other's like, I want Kevin Stafansky. And the other one's like, Mr. Beast, do Mr. Beast. Last. Oh, God. So who should the Ravens hire? Sorry, before we move on. It's funny because this is one of the what I've seen so far is like one of the least inspiring, like coaching carousels in recent memory. Maybe that's just relative to like what we've had like last year was great, obviously, in the year before. But I honestly don't know. I honestly don't know. Like who are the who are the big? Just list off some of the big candidates right now. I mean, Kevin Stafansky, which it's worth mention, I mean, first of all, Bill Barnwell had a great post that said John Harbaugh is obviously the best coach on the market and the Ravens are obviously the best job on the market, which is absolutely true and kind of funny. It's worth noting, if we're talking about Stafansky to the Ravens, the Ravens were the Browns. The Browns moved to Baltimore, 96 and became the Ravens. And then the Browns were reincarnated in 99. So. I'm not saying that they're that connected, like an actual organization, but the Ravens not picking Stafansky would be kind of interesting. If I mean, yeah, like they've coached against him for six years. Like if anyone you think would be in a position to understand, to be able to separate what how what did Stafansky do? What was he responsible for? And like, did he do a great job with what he was given? Or like, is he overrated or whatever? The Ravens pass against the fans. I think would be interesting. Yeah. I mean, DK, to answer your question, based on there's been a lot of reports over the last day or two from like guys like Jeremy Fowler across the honor about like, who are the candidates out there right now? It's not it's not that great. There's the guys who have been coaches before. There's like the Robert Sala, Matt Nagy, Cliff Kingsbury types. Kingsbury. And then it's like a lot of like the hot young coordinators. It's like the Jags defensive coordinator, Anthony Campanile. It's like the Packers defensive coordinator, Jeff Haffley. There's Dayball in the mix. You have the Rams, the Rams, D.C. Chris Shula, the Chargers, D.C. Jesse Minter. Minter is an interesting one because he came up in the Ravens organization. He's a hard. He's like a Jim John disciple. Oh, that would be very interesting. Is there a world would you if you're the Ravens, would you send a? Would you send a first round pick to Miami for Mike McDaniel? Oh, like what if Mike McDaniel could design an offense for fucking Lamar Jackson? I probably wouldn't, but it would be awesome. We would have two years ago. We'd be like, I'd be like hoping he get fired. Yeah, rather than sending a first round pick. I think all these owners have the same conversations about the coaching candidates. And I'm like, I think if we're going to see a coach trade, it doesn't happen a lot. We might see it. Dude, if Stefansky goes to Baltimore, because Stefansky had two more years on his deal. So the Browns are going to would have essentially paid out Kevin Stefansky for him to go to Baltimore and kick the shit out of them. Dude, if the Ravens hires to what's Toddling got to say about this, they must be smarter than me. Andrew Barry must be a lot smarter than me. Can't eat soup with a fork. Oh, my God. Can't go to sleep. Stand it up. I don't know. I'm just imagining shit, he would say. Wow. OK. All right. So I said, and you have the commanders taking Edd rusher and Keldrick full. Well, to get back to what we were talking about, because we got interrupted. Hyphens was talking about positional value and safety and all that. We're talking about Carl Hamilton. Yeah. Carl Hamilton is a good example. I just think I'm thinking because for a long time, I sort of subscribed to the school of thought, like you should actually pay attention to like how much these guys are going to be making, how how much value they bring relative to free agents and all that stuff. But now I think I find myself just going the opposite with it because in recent memory and I've been as guilty as anybody of like kind of like creating down for when teams take like lower positional value players in the draft. You think about like what the Lions did a couple of years ago. And forgive me if I get the order wrong, but it was like Jack Campbell, Brian Branch and Sam LaPorta. And it was like line off ball linebacker safety tight end. And guess what? And Jameer Gibbs, right? So it was running back tight end or sorry, running back linebacker and then safety and tight end. I think those were their first four picks. And I was like, these are all the least valuable positions, blah, blah, blah. Guess what? They're all fucking good and like core foundational pieces of this team. And I'm like, and now I think about it. And like what the Seahawks did in this last draft, Grace Abel guard. Their second pick was Nick Mowry, safety. Low value, quote unquote, low value position groups. But these are two core guys. These two guys in particular helped turn around the Seahawks franchise. You know what I mean? It's like, why do we? Well, I understand why we do this. But what Hyphens was saying where it was like, you have to make that a variable. It's a factor. But also this guy's going to be really fucking good. We're really confident in that. I think is is is not factored in enough. And I think people the response that would be like, no one knows who's going to be good. It's not just about the money. Like it's not just about the money. And the other part of it, like I think the running like positions are different. Running back, like I think we've talked about this, but I think where we've landed with the running back debate thing is now we're at the point where the running backs aren't paid that much money. And the answer seems to be obvious. It's the cherry on top of the Sunday. And if you put the cherry at the bottom, that's stupid. And what the Raiders did to Gentie was probably dumb because taking Gentie before you have an offensive line, you end up lasting yards per carry. And when it works, you the Lions, who then use for first run picks on linemen. All right, well, you take your gear, Gibbs is probably going to be sick. And if you had put Gentie on the Lions, he probably would have been sick and Gibbs on the Raiders, maybe it wouldn't have been great. And so we've learned that. Say one of the Giants doesn't help him win. Christian McCaffrey on the Niners doesn't help him win. You put him in the sorry, McCaffrey in the Panthers doesn't win. You put him on the Niners, you put Stake one of the Eagles, it works. Clearly running back depends on offensive linemen. The difference is a guard is also not paid much money. But a great guard makes other positions better. He makes the center better. It makes the left tackle better. He makes it's a force multiply. He's holding the pocket together. Exactly. The interior. And it matters more, especially when I get back to it. And he's opening up inside runs. Yeah, safety to me with Caleb Downs is the same thing. A good safety in the modern NFL. I mean, there were teams playing three safeties all year. It's like a good safety is making everyone better. Like Kyle Hamilton, the Ravens defense went from like the worst in the league through six weeks, and they traded for a lowy Gilman a safety to move. Kyle Hamilton to a different spot in the defense. And then they just were transformative. The worst defense to like probably a little above average immediately. I mean, the Steelers moving Gil and Ramsey to safety, the Steelers turned into like a completely different defense the second half of the year. It is a like Caleb Downs to me. It's like it is an old, you know, it's kind of like. Frankly, I guess the simplest way to put it is conventional wisdom that a safety is not worth the pick. A smart teams like the Patriots and Eagles are consistently ahead of conventional wisdom. The Eagles paid sake one Barclay when it was conventional wisdom not to the smart teams are ahead of it. The idea that a safety like as special and again, anyone could fail. I think I'm as confident as Caleb Downs will be successful in the NFL as any safety prospect I can remember. Maybe my confidence in him is a sign he's going to suck because that's just we don't know. We never know anything is the problem. Yeah. Yeah. But I the idea that if he's as good as he could be, that that's not valuable. I think that's crazy. He might fail. But if he succeeds, it's unquestionably worth the top done pick to me. A top eight pick, I think outside of the top two tackles, a quarterback. I'd rather have him maybe than some of these pass rushers. Did we discuss or maybe we did and I missed it that that the commanders did fire Cliff Kingsbury today? Did have we discussed that? No, we didn't even get into that. So much stuff has happened. Kingsbury. The Lions also fired their O.C. John Morton, whose name I can barely remember ever. The commanders fired their offensive coordinator and their defensive coordinator and their offensive line coach. So this is let's get. So only only the head coach. So what? Kingsbury, theoretically, is could get fired as a head coach, hired as an offensive coordinator, fired as an offensive coordinator and then hired as a head coach. And that would be the second time that's happened to him because he got fired a little, but he got fired at Texas Tech, hired as a U.S.C. offensive coordinator and then given an NFL head coaching job in like six weeks, getting fired as an offensive coordinator in the NFL and then hired like a month later as a head coach in the NFL. So I believe I believe what happened there and I could be wrong is that Kingsbury clashed with Adam Peters, the GM of the Niners. And the further I get back from that, the more commanders. Oh, sorry. Yeah, the commanders. I keep sorry. Adam Peters came from the 90s. He used to be from the 49ers. I keep thinking about Bill. The the the remember when Ben Johnson, the Lions, that coordinator is now the coach of the Bears turned down the Washington job and there was like the Washington was very nasty about it publicly because they turned the plane around, which they could bitch about. But he was saving them time and they very publicly made fun of him. And Ben Johnson leaked basically that they were basketball guys. And that's why he turned down the Washington job. He thought that Josh Harris is a basketball guy and they had a lot of Magic Johnson, they had a lot of Bob Myers, the Warriors, GM retired. A lot of basketball thoughts. He was like, I don't. The I think Dan Quinn is probably on the fire next year if Washington doesn't make the playoffs. And I think this is like I think Kingsbury wasn't going to allow that in Peters. But I think the Washington resurgence might I'm a little worried about you and Daniels and a little worried about the Washington resurgence. But Cliff also seems to wear out his welcome consistently. I think he's really tall and really, really like has a really sexy voice and a great jaw line and he's great talking to 60 year old billionaires and 18 year old high school recruits. Probably right. Well, you guys just don't know what to do with that one. I don't know what to do with that one. But yeah, I think Craig, your point that he could fail up is very funny. I just love the idea of getting five coordinator and coach in a month. Man, the commanders, the commanders don't think that's going to happen. I don't think he's probably going to go back to college or something. It sounds like they had like they they worded it, at least what I saw is they worded it kind of like this horrible thing where they they met and they decided mutually to part ways or whatever because Clint Kingsbury has like other options that he wants to do. The Jeremy Fowler reported that the the Browns were thinking about firing Stefansky and they said that the Browns wanted Mike McDaniel. Hmm. Mike McDaniel seems like kind of a hot commodity. And he's more popular outside of Miami than inside. Yes. Interesting. I don't know. I think Carlos was happy. Add this to the list of episodes where Carlos is going to be mad. But we said, I think Carlos was thrilled that Chris grew, the GM got fired. And I think that was the right decision. I kept waiting for me to get fired. The defense never, the team didn't quit on him. Carlos just texted us saying he wants Harbaugh in Miami. Oh, well, that's so funny. I think the Ravens did the right thing, but the Ravens could have traded John Harbaugh. I think maybe you don't want to get into a protracted situation. And maybe the rules, the timing doesn't work out. Well, you don't want to wait to do that. But I feel like teams would have traded picks to the Ravens for him. I know that extorted he's been there like almost 20 years. Well, it's funny. It's like how valuable is a coach like Harbaugh? Like as a trade piece when he's not really a play designer, play color. He's like a culture guy to CEO. Yeah, he's literally a special teams coach. That was his background, which one the Ravens special teams. But I run it was so funny. This all happened because a priest blessed the end zone of the Steelers Stadium. And then the kick that's why it happened. A 40 yard, 44 yard field goal in the end zone, the priest blessed. Tyler Loop got Harbaugh fired. That guy doing hard. I think Harbaugh also kind of knew because he was the one to walk loop out. And I think Harbaugh had an inkling. This would happen. I think he was trying to make loopy like I'm going to lose my. Not saying it, but I think he knew I'm going to lose my job. And I don't want this kid to fucking feel mad about it. Also, it appears as though there are videos circulating. I'm trying to get every angle. I'm I'm I'm reaching out to my sources that Boswell's extra point was perhaps tipped. So back to that. There you go. He's on the Steelers Reddit. Check it out. It's a pruder film. Other go hard back into the left. An unback into the right. Yeah, yeah. I hit the wire. Other cordon, the Cowboys fired Matt Abram Fluss, the defensive coordinator, who again was the Bears head coach and then Fluss is loose once again. Fluss is loose. I mean, that never made sense at any point that that makeup with the Cowboys and Fluss. And I don't think he will. I don't think the Cowboys are a winnable situation. I don't think I don't know. What does he have to say about Caleb Williams, though? Yeah, who knows? You know, well, he didn't want to kind of blow through the rest of this mock draft and have DK kind of like pull the bus wire when he wants to talk about a specific pick. I want to pull the bus wire a couple places. Yeah, we can do that. All right. So let's. So I Washington commanders that you give him an edge rusher from Auburn, Keldrick Falk. Any any thing there you want me to move on? Big, strong explosive. Well, pretty fast guy for a size like just a big defensive end. I got to be honest. When big powerful guy and edge rusher going seventh overall in the NFL draft and you tell me big, powerful explosive. I'm like, yeah, people are comparing him to Michael Williams from the 49ers last year for the 49ers. Like that kind of player. OK. It doesn't get you going is what you're saying. I think I think you know, you're going to say really this is the first edge rusher like, you know, one of the top three ed rushers in the NFL draft. I'm like, yeah, of course, he's going to be explosive. You better be. He's yeah, he's like a bit. I think he's still up and coming young player like. OK. He's not a tight end, Craig. We don't know if he's a player. OK. It's not like the dog or secretary. It's picked. This kind of surprised me, DK. You gave the Saints a wide receiver to pair with Chris. A lot of you give him carnell Tate, your guy. Yeah, I think after. I think it's like the way I look at it is like they've got something good going here. And potentially with Tyler Shuck is like the future of their franchise. Kelly Moore, it seems like he did a pretty good job given what given what he was what he like took over in New Orleans. So I'm just kind of like, let's build the offense up. Let's get the offense going. You can see some explosive stuff happening with there. And, you know, two former Ohio State receivers. I don't know. I just kind of like that that pairing. It was like basically to give Tyler Shuck some more help. OK. And then next pick here, we have with this just will never seem normal. The Kansas City Chiefs have the ninth ninth pick. What are we going to how long into the draft season? Will we stop being flabbergasted to see the Chiefs having the ninth pick in the draft? Incredibly bizarre. DK, can you pronounce the name of the person you are giving to the Chiefs? Mansour Delaney. But I'm not 100 percent sure that's right. That was my guess. But yeah, they. I think it's just like they need to get better on defense. They they have a lot of holes, actually, in their offense. I was tempted to go like offensive skill player, but they've done that so much and like completely failed at it. The last few years, I was just like, let's go defense here. I think when we get closer to the draft, I would I strongly think this will be a trench guy. I think they're they're going to replace right tackle to one to the highest paid player on the team that is I thought about offensive line a lot there. Yeah, maybe they took a they took a tackle last year, too. You know, they have just shims at left side, right side. Maybe they could find someone who can line up correctly, like we'll see. But right. I also think they would go defense attack here. Peter Woods at Clemson, I'm probably he didn't have a great. He like did his 2024 was better than 2025, which is always weird, but also kind of don't give a shit. Well, he's like he was the type of player who came. I think a lot of people had him as like the top player in the draft coming into the season and he's fallen a little bit, but he's still, you know, the upside is he's got like freaky twitch as from a big guy. Yeah. And then it's like so he could go higher than I have. I I think the Giants could take about five and I'd be fine. I also this is a conversation what happened to guys over the next few months. It's just like I just think defensive tackles, honestly, I think they're more valuable than past rushers. I think edge rushers are overrated. I think defensive tackles are underrated. I think I mean, super anecdotal, but if you just look at the last like 10 Super Bowl winners, most of the time, the best defensive tackle in the fucking league is on the winning defense as Super Bowl team. Well, the Seahawks like this is again, you know, the CX defense, one of the best defenses we've seen in a really long time, like Byron Murphy quietly has been playing so good. He's amazing. A frickin just brick wall like they teams can't can't move him off the ball, even when they double him. He's so good. And he's like, I think there's so many like fun players on the CX defense. He does he kind of flies under the radar, but he's been so good. And that's the thing. It's like it just we don't have to go into a rant about defensive tackles, but I think the chiefs next season, right now, if you look at the roster, literally all of their defensive tackles in Kansas City, except one guy will be 30 or older in next season. And I think the one guy that is like a practice squad undrafted free agent is the only defensive tackle that happened in the 20s. So I kind of think that's the floor for Peter Wood. Yeah, I like that. I like that. Because Chris Jones is going to be like 31, 32. I mean, you know, but crazy that they get to pick that high. 10th pick Cincinnati Bengals. You're giving them. Jermod McCoy cornerback out of Tennessee. This is kind of like the old thing that they gave up more yards than any other team in the NFL. Maybe we should have some corners. That was kind of like my thinking. McCoy missed the season with the ACL injury that he had off during the off season. But I mean, yeah, if you just look at the Bengals defense, they gave up every every metric that matters. Really, they were like like top or bottom three or four. I mean, is there a team that's considered a good team that needs more things than the Bengals? And the Bengals have made the playoffs in three years and they kept saying they need. They need more trench guys, too. They could use more offensive linemen. They could use more basically every position in the defense. Yeah, I don't know. This one was tough, but I think like I was just looking at the passing stats, the defensive passing stats. I was like, Jesus, speaking of Carlos is Miami Dolphins, the 11th pick. You gave them the Oregon tight annuals. The biggest biceps I've ever seen in my life. This is so cheap. His biceps are crazy. I actually think they're triceps. I think his biceps are his biceps on his biceps. It looks like Craig, it looks like someone who could get into the Salty Spittoon. Yeah, he looks like he has anchor arms like from the you have to blow up from SpongeBob. He is genuinely one of the more jacked people I've seen. Just him sitting. God, there's a there's a shot of him sitting in a press conference. His arms are fucking like I we can't make a big enough deal about this. His arms are the biggest I've ever seen on the tight end. It'll be. Yeah. And he's not super tall, right? He's like six three. Yeah. Yeah. He is. He looks kind of like a move tight end. I my initial sort of reaction to him like first first watch was he kind of reminds me of like Laporta, where he's a little smaller. I think he's like six three, two forty five or something like that. But he's pretty good at blocking and he works really hard at it. And I think he's the type of tight end where despite the fact he's not like six, five, six, six, he could still be pretty instrumental in the run game in terms of like what Mike McDonald wants to do. Sorry, Mike McDaniel wants to do in the run game. Like that's a big part of their their philosophy and identity on offense. But he's also, you know, explosive after the catch. He's really good at the catch point. I just remember two years ago when Johnny Smith was like a huge part of their offense. I'm like, I could picture him having that type of role, but he's probably more effective as a blocker. So that was kind of where I was going with that. I just think they need more weapons on offense. And he is the type of guy who can be a factor in the run game too. So that was kind of my thinking on that. I don't know if he'll go this high. It's always tough to know with tight ends. You know, I think the last few tight ends that have taken have been taken really high have panned out really well for their teams. If you look at like Brock Bowers, Cortons, Colston Loveland this year ended up on a really like high note. Like he's looking like he's going to be a great pick for the Bears. Tyler Warren has been really good. So there's like now a little bit more precedent of taking these, you know, quote unquote, like past catching tight ends early and them having like big impact early on. There's also way more precedent. We're going to have to talk about this in depth due to investigation. Kenyon Steeke is at the cutting edge of these guys are showing more skin during games than ever. He has the tiniest little shoulder pads. Tucks his shoulder. Like David Bailey, Texas Tech does it too. Like David Bailey is dominating the Oregon game. It's like Michael Bennett. Do you guys remember Michael Bennett's shoulder pads? Like the Vince Pappali shoulder pads, like the little bitty ones. Yeah, but also they tuck the jerseys, the shoulders into the pads. They keep the jerseys tucked into the pads like Michael Parsons. It makes it really makes your your arms pop. It does. But then also. Yeah, same. Maybe I'm just old, but I feel like more players than ever are wearing their pants above the knee like exposed. Oh, it's like up to your quad. If you skin your knee on turf, it fucking hurts. But like David Bailey is just dominating this Oregon game. And he looks like that's how guys look in practice or like warm ups, like the jersey, like you see the pads at the bottom. Yeah, like it's cleavage. And then I also seen his knees and I'm like, this guy's like under. They're showing under boob out there. Yeah, it's like under boob. Fucking down the middle version of under boob. It's provocative. It's people going in general when like I see like sometimes I realize like how how little pads NFL players actually wear like just like some receivers who don't wear leg pads. Like no thigh pads at all. They're just no, none of them like compression. How much it hurts. Yeah. None of them wear pads on their lower half. When you high school football, knee pads, no, none of them. No, because speed is the name of the game. It makes you slower and it makes you feel tight. None of them wear knee pads, none of them wear hip pads, none of them wear any of that. Yeah, what is this, the 80s? Like the fact that like waist down, no pads, you can like see their mid-drift. You can like just see their stomach. I'm like, man, they got their pads tucked into their shoulders. There's like not a lot going on in terms of protection. Yeah, yeah. Soon it's just going to be like they're wearing these like giant alien concussion protective helmets and then no pads below. It's like the the the old scuba diver helmet things with the cord. That's just all they're wearing. OK, let's round this out. So you have the Cowboys at 12 taking Kale Downs, Typhus's Boy. Yeah, I he'll probably go higher than this. I don't know. I was like, it's one of those things where the positional value is there. It's like people don't. It's hard to predict where he'll go. But yeah. And then you have one more. Thirteenth pick, you have the Rams who have the Falcons pick taking Avion Terrell the corner out of Clemson. Yeah, no more flat Stanley. Well, no more relying on him. Holy, I think it was like one of the main issues for the Rams. This year has been like some cornerback issues. So that was kind of where I was thinking about that. This is the the younger brother of AJ Terrell. I was did you do that on purpose? I was really fucked up to give the Falcons pick to the Rams. I did not do that on purpose. I didn't do that on purpose, but I like it. AJ Terrell, the best cornerback on the Falcons, and you gave his brother to the Rams with the Falcons. Yeah, I did not actually think that, but that's funny. Yeah. It's pretty cheeky. He's he's a fun player to watch, man. He's like always around the ball, super tenacious, a little bit of like Devin Witherspoon personality to him. He's fun to watch. OK, that does it. That's the case. Check out the rest of the Mockdraft on the ringer.com. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's the website. What's the URL to any other? It's quite long. I have I have never mind. Yeah, we'll put it in the show. We'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, link description. And the discord is in there. Instagram, TikTok, follow us, but most importantly, Netflix, type in ringer. He said the set reminder. I have an email I want to read you guys. But first, anything else on Harbubbing, fired or any of the other than anyone other. Oh, Bengals, Taylor Britt, sentenced to five days in jail, five days. All right. They don't need a quarterback for that. Any other people get fired while we were recording? John Morton. But that's about it, I think. That's like, yeah, still coming in. Still still stuff happening. Any last thoughts on John Harbaugh? No, Carlos is sending us Dolphins propaganda. Yeah, Carlos is already like following the breadcrumbs. Yeah, Jordan Rodriguez reporting that the Dolphins are requesting an interview with the Chargers assistant GM, Chad Alexander, who who DK's doppelganger brought into LA and they spent a lot of time in Baltimore under Harbaugh. And so now, I guess the Dolphins want to bring in this GM formerly of Baltimore, which could then reconnect with John Harbaugh. Ooh. Interesting. And then Scott Hansen weighed in and said, whoa, you don't part ways with the coach to make yourself feel better. You part ways with the coach to make the franchise better. Can you do it in his voice, please? Whoa. You don't part ways with the coach to make yourself feel better, folks. You part ways with the coach to make the franchise better. We'll see which version this is over the next year or two. Coming up next. As always in the off season, this is the firing hour. When winds become losses and losses become wind. Jackie hates the witching hour. 18 weeks in a row, Jackie's like, I don't get it. I don't get it. Oh, boy. Where hirings become firings and firings become hiring. Nice. All right. Couple emails here. We'll get out of here. Emails. People, we did the rewatchables. We did basically like our awards for the season, which I was really fun episode. And I highly recommend listening to that. If you didn't give it a chance, but I would listen to the awards episode from last week and a couple of people emailed in with some things we forgot. We didn't realize. Starting with Sean, very important email from Sean. The subject. There's no text. The subject line is just. Cub Buck is the same name when said forward and back. Cub Buck is the same name when said forward and backwards. Is it really? Cub Buck. Backwards is Cub Buck. Oh my God. Maybe that's why he's named that. Cub Buck. Oh, that's really funny. What's the word for that? Like like like an anagram or a palindrome. Palindrome, like race car. Yeah. Cub Buck. Wow. Steve Holt. Cub Buck. Oh, it's called. Yeah, what is it called? Palindrome is with the spelling. Palindrome, yes. Dimitri Martin also has written the longest palindrome in the world, which is awesome. Oh, you like told the joke that's like a palindrome. Which again, shouldn't palindrome be a palindrome? It's that's good. They're like a list of words. Yeah, they really missed an opportunity there. They should change palindrome to Cub Buck. Cub Buck means palindrome. It's a. What's your favorite palindrome before Cub Buck? Race car comes to mind. And I probably don't have a favorite. It's just which everyone's I could think of. There's like an expret there's I'm trying to remember like famous one that from childhood. There's like sentences put together. Oh, a man, a plan, a canal Panama. Boob is a palindrome. Well done. Yeah, you ever flip the calculator upside down and math class and do that? Boobless. These kids. That's what society's coming apart. This kid. That was that was a big part of my life. Now they're just actually Googling boobs in class and not writing it out on that. Right. They're having AI just make boobs. Look, there's like six. Go. Oh, this is another one. Go hang. Go hang a salami. I'm a lasagna hug. I remember that from childhood. Loves you. He is a little too. Go hang a salami comma. I'm a lasagna hug. I don't think you lost palindrops. I remember like reading these back in the day. Palindromes for DK. I want to read these to DK. You know, all right, I'll stop Googling them then. Yeah. Palindromes are fun. So like a I sentences like I'm looking at one. Cigar toss it in a can. It's so tragic. That doesn't make any sense. Well, it's a pound. Oh, that's like a cat. I mean, those would say. Yeah. Yo, banana boy. Come on. That's good. No lemon, no melon. I very much just remember a man, a plan, a canal, Panama. Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah. Is that the only email that you had? I had more we could get out of here. OK, next episode. Cub Buck blew my mind. Cub Buck is this last name B. You see, though. No, but. It's fucking ruined it. I mean, a good thing going. Sorry. Be cool, man. All right, let's get out of here. Thank you, DK. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Austin. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Kai. Thank you, everyone for listening, watching. Set the reminder in Netflix or fall. Since Spotify or wherever you get your pods, watch, listen, whatever, Instagram, TikTok, Discord to the episode description. Thank you, everyone. Thank you to Steve Bishotti, Raven Zona for doing that while we were recording. That was actually great. Great time. But of course, thank you, Lord. Lord, thank you, Teddy swims. I know one song by him. Oh, I thought that was a palindrome. I just assumed, but it's not. No, what's the song you know? Teddy swims. What's lose insurance? Handle? What? But someone else. A man of pant. I'm a lasagna hog. No, wait, I'm a baloney hog. Ed Sheeran is Teddy's photo. Teddy's photos. I thought that's what Teddy swims is. I'm vaguely familiar with Teddy swims. Not a whole lot. I don't know anything about him. How did his name pop into your head? Just, you know, I know that song. Lose control. Oh, my God. You would recognize. How's it go? That song's great. Wow. Well, let me rephrase that song. Super stuck in my head. How's it go? Uh, no, I'm not going to try it. Oh, I think it's like a harder. Sing. Con. Tra. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. Yeah, it's not like you can just say it, Greg. I don't know how to explain it, but I don't like songs like that. You know, you just can't explain your taste for things. The pop song, but there are certain songs that are like that. And I don't like them. And I don't know how to describe them. And I am trying to think of other songs that are like that. Like, like, like, do you like famous Benson Boone song? Don't like it. You don't like flippy boy. I don't like a little flippy boy. I got it. I'm embarrassed to say the control that it's funny. I called the control song beautiful. Things. You it's I don't like when you lose control. I guess that the I'm embarrassed to say that if that song is on, then like a Starbucks or something and I'm talking to someone, I actually was like in my head. I'm like, I wish you would stop talking so I could listen to this controls. Yeah, I know. I totally know what you're getting at. I don't know. Describe it. Yeah, sheep. Yeah, maybe it's like some cheap design to be earworms. But isn't it? I feel like most pop songs are like it's like an earworm, but I like that song. Yeah, I don't I don't know. But if you saw him do it at the Grammys and I was like, I think this guy he's kind of losing control. Is it like is it is it sort of like songs that are designed to show off how you can sing? Maybe. That's like your range. Because beautiful things screams it. Yeah. Maybe. Maybe that's it. You're like, OK, we get it. Is there a difference for you when men or women do it? Like if there's like a like a Celine Dion song, like I assume Heart Will Go On, like or like songs. No, no, no, because like a range. A Dell. Wicked. I'm not like mad at Adele singing, you know, whatever Park and Park Legend. Hello. So I don't know. I don't know what it is. Email us if you do music and you know what we're talking about. Please. The only other song I can think of right now is Benson Boone's Beautiful Things. That's like kind of the same type of song to me. But I don't know if it's like a ballad or what or what. I don't know. Someone's going to know. Email us if you know why Craig hates lose control by Teddy Swibbs. We're going to like that question. Yeah. All right. Goodbye, everyone.