AI Is Coming for Bitcoin’s Energy | Micheal Dunworth

Bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation. It's not even going to be a question. It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference. It'll make it very scary, the rounding up of the energy sources and sort of reprioritizing them. They will ration it for whatever is the most beneficial. That's up against it because Bitcoin's security policy is energy. You get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to. Bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to turn these machines on and off. Everything becomes a power generator because that's what it needs to survive. We have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way. The layers of earth, like as in humanity, I don't think they're going to hold very long. It just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable. Yo! yo how's it going hey what's up how are you man dude awesome what's the latest just uh getting ready to go to vegas oh my god which is gonna be fun huge i leave i leave on friday morning and uh meet up with pete in la and then we're driving over to vegas oh man you guys all have a blast i know we're back on the road together again oh my god how good man his show's I mean, by the way, you know what's crazy? Heaps of Pete's guests that I've watched, I'm like, I didn't realize who they were when I was watching, but now I'm like, oh, that's the candidate for like Rupert Lowe or whatever his name is. I watched heaps of his stuff, but I was like, where have I seen this dude before? And I was like, oh, my God, Pete's had him on his show. Unreal. i mean he he's uh i think he's gonna win the next election it's pretty crazy and he and p's like friends with him like he's texting him privately like they're like strategizing together it's pretty crazy i mean i think pete's got a pretty good voice like in terms of opinion on like the strategy for the zeitgeist like because he's so in tune like he's saying you know he sees all sides of everything but like i find like that the bitcoin is coming from bitcoin land they see it pretty deep down the stack almost like they're really kind of critical thinking like a lot more than most of the traditional worlds anyway so you kind of get like uh it's like you get off the ground faster with bitcoiners typically in terms of them trying to figure out why this system's so cooked or not cooked or should be cooked i just realized i don't have my charger can i have one sec Danny sorry I'm just gonna pick it right grab it hey I'm literally eating all of our lunches I'm like it is you have no idea how many friends from all walks of life like lawyers executives advertising exec like all the food chain all the way up all the way down it's like insane How much is this wigging you out? Because you're a crazy guy. I can imagine you've been going down some rabbit holes with it. I don't know where it's going to go. I don't. Okay, so here's what's going to happen. We're going to have 20% unemployment, call it 15% to 20%. Then you've got mixed that with 14% to 16% inflation, being generous. Maybe it's 10%, maybe it's 12%, but it's double digits. So the problem is like, they're not losing their job. Like, oh damn, I got to go figure out where to work next. It's like, no, no, no monster.com. They've removed that job description. Like you can't list a job for that anymore. It's like saying, oh, I wonder if I can list a job description for candlestick maker. We don't have those anymore because we don't use candles anymore. We use electricity. And it's like, it's as transformative as that, in my opinion, it's going to be like, okay, we used to have refrigeration techniques. Now we have electricity and that's a fridge. And there's all these things, sewing machine, job gone. Candlestick maker, job gone. Shoeshiner, job gone. But we sort of thought, oh yeah, our jobs are really hard to take. It's like, no, dude, this thing's just going to scoop it up like lawyers and stuff because people, and as you get this price pinch, right? Like, you know, as people, like money becomes harder, people need to resort to more, you know, friendly options. What's more economically friendly? And so, people used to hire an engineer for, you know, let's say a hundred grand once upon a year, 10, 15 years ago, hire an engineer, front-end dev, a hundred grand, a hundred and fifty grand. And then people went, well, that's too expensive. I don't have enough money and things are getting more expensive. So, people went to Odesk, which turned into Upworkfreelancer.com and they would get a Indian software engineer who is probably asking for eight to twelve dollars an hour or nine dollars an hour so basically 10k a year so that 100k a year got compressed to 10k a year now India has built basically for the past 15 years their entire net export has probably been like talent like you know computer science basically I don't know what's going to happen to them that whole world of freelancers in vietnam philippines and all that stuff these virtual assistants or front-end engineers and stuff it's like um like i don't know what do you do and then it's like imagine if you and i just went to uni and we just finished a computer science degree course or in year four that's the scariest 275 grand unforgivable from bankruptcy you still owe me that money student loans it's like unforgivable for now it's like oh my god I'd be so worried like and what do you do to pick and it's like I saw let's say okay so you go the plumber route right everyone's a plumber now or they should become a plumber that's like the most like safe from the AI monster but I saw this video of it was a tennis robot playing like a high school top tier tennis player and it was only trained on like four hours of data and the guy was like what the fuck was that like who who was that tennis player and how long has that been it's like oh that was just four hours it's like imagine you've got a warehouse data center dedicated solely to that dude plumbers are toast and what will probably happen is because everything's so expensive we're going to redesign how we build houses so we're not going to use the same plumbing techniques we're going to use what what could a robotic plumber get access to okay let's build for that guy to be the one maintaining it and i think you're going to see just how like we don't have chimneys today right like we don't i mean most places don't have chimneys because most places don't have fire fireplaces anymore um we don't have chimneys it's sort of the same vibe there's going to be sort of this relic of house design or styling or interiors that we sort of don't i don't know it's just a thing of the past like it's crazy um i've no clue how we don't end up in like civil war. This is so scary. Oh my God. Do you want to pay less in taxes and stack more Bitcoin? Of course you do. Well, by mining Bitcoin with blockware, you can. Under section 168k of the US tax code, Bitcoin mining servers qualify for 100% bonus depreciation. This means every dollar you spend on miners can directly offset your income in a single year. And that's true for both business owners and W2 earners. If you have $100,000 in ordinary income, you can purchase $100,000 and miners and potentially offset your tax liability entirely. Blockware's mining as a service does all the heavy lifting, they secure the rigs, they source the low-cost power and they handle all the day-to-day maintenance. So you get to stack Bitcoin every single day while drastically shrinking your tax bill. Get started today at blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD and use code WBD for $100 off your first miner. That's blockwaresolutions.com forward slash WBD. Do you wish you could access cash without selling your Bitcoin? Well, Ledin makes that possible. They're the global leader in Bitcoin-backed lending, and since 2018, they've issued over $9 billion in loans with a perfect record of protecting client assets. With Ledin, you get full custody loans with no credit checks or monthly repayments, just easy access to dollars without selling a single SAP. Ledin exclusively offer Bitcoin-backed loans with all collateral held by Ledin directly or their funding partners. Your Bitcoin's never lent out to generate interest. I recently took out a loan with Ledin. the whole process was super easy, the application took me less than 15 minutes, and in a few hours I had the dollars in my account. It was super smooth. So if you need cash but you don't want to sell Bitcoin, head over to leden.io forward slash WBD and you'll get 0.25% off your first loan. That's L-E-D-N dot I-O forward slash WBD. If you hold Bitcoin, your phone number is one of your biggest vulnerabilities. SimSwap attacks are one of the most common attack vectors targeting Bitcoiners. Somebody socially engineers an employee at your carrier, moves your number to a new device, and they're into your account. It happens because traditional carriers put a human in control of your phone number, someone who can be bribed or tricked. But CAPE is a US mobile carrier built from the ground up with privacy and security at the core. They don't ask for your name or social security number when you sign up. They collect the minimum data required, delete it as fast as possible, and never sell it. When you sign up, you receive a 24-word passphrase, just like a Bitcoin wallet. That's the only way to move your number. Not a customer service rep, not even Cape's own staff can do it. You're the only person who controls your number. If you hold your own keys, you should hold your own phone number too. So head over to cape.co forward slash WBD and use code WBD at checkout for 33% off your first six months. That's cape.co forward slash WBD and use code WBD. Bitcoiners, as you know, with fiat money constantly debasing, wealth preservation isn't optional. that's why i recommend swan bitcoin a team of dedicated bitcoiners who work with families and businesses to build and secure generational wealth with bitcoin strong relationships with clients are at the center of everything swan does a dedicated swan private wealth representative which is a real person that you can text and call will help you build a bitcoin wealth strategy using swan's comprehensive platform of bitcoin services including tax advantage retirement accounts advanced bitcoin cold storage using collaborative self-custody inheritance planning with both trust and entity accounts, tax loss harvesting, asset-backed loans, and more. Swan have helped over 100,000 clients since 2020. And if you're serious about acquiring and securing Bitcoin, I recommend Swan. Meet the team at swan.com forward slash WBD, which is swan.com forward slash WBD. I love that we've just gone right in at the deep end here. But one of the things that freaks me out with this is AI definitely going to replace a large amount of human labor. Who knows whether that's 10, 20, 30, 50%, whatever. There's a lot of human labor going to be displaced. It's displacing a lot of human thought. And at the end of it, does it actually sort of disrupt and remove human freedoms as these? Because what is quite scary about this to me is that for a while, I thought that open source smaller systems were going to have a real chance against these frontier models. But that's looking less and less likely, in my opinion, at least. And that's a really scary outcome. it's like mass consolidation of basically information it's almost like you now have three funnels of information and everything else is pretty much like not really vetted like people say oh chat jbte claude whatever like some specifics but most of the time we're only going to get lazier and lazier oh grok is this true like grok is this true that's already a thing it's like i can't even be bothered googling it i'm not checking anything and you know like we're all getting worse at that. Like in general, we're getting less fit and healthy and we're getting less mentally fit and healthy because we're so used to like, when you, let's say like, let's say you're looking at content online. If you have to look at a piece of content, it used to be like, oh, cool. There's a dog riding a, you know, a go-kart or whatever. And now it's like, is that true? Is it not true? Is that AI or is it not AI? Is it propaganda? Is it not propaganda? Is this a left-leaning side or a right-leaning? And the next thing you know, you've gone through like 12 different decisions before you've even gone, cool, that content's cool. Like to digest it is exhausting. So people now- And that's only going to get worse. It's only going to get worse. And so, and not only that is as our dopamine keeps getting stimulated like harder and harder, it makes the level of give a fuck. So like grok, is this true? Is like the maximalist like lazy answer. And it's like, we're only trending towards that more and more, which is so scary because we're basically getting set up for an environment that needs us to have maximum human skill. And we have literally eroded almost all of it and the motivations to actually do stuff like putting a shovel in the dirt right now. That's a very far like thought for many, many people because we're just not used to having dirt under our fingernails anymore and all that kind of stuff. but it's like that's where the puck is going almost hardware some like concrete cement like look at the bitcoin miners like iris and stuff like that like they are like i was saying to yesterday like they are in this like almost like they're the the bouncer at the pearly gates you know which way do you want your energy do you want it to bitcoin or do you want it to ai and information so it's money or information but it's only going to two places one or the other you pick and like now when you think about that the scary part about all this is is that i from bitcoin's perspective there's a scary part which it means that bitcoin becomes sort of not the bell of the ball when it comes to energy and so if we don't have bitcoin as the bell of the ball for energy then it'd be like look bitcoin that's cool we're we're not as a species we're not dependent on you enough but we have the government that now has contracts with you with ai infrastructure and blah, blah, blah. We've had 40 of the top 200 companies on the ASX or the stock market. They've changed their entire company infrastructure based around this. So when it comes to like rationing the energy, it's not even going to be a debate. It's not even going to be a question. It'll be, yeah, AI gets first preference. If you want to mine anything, if you want to contribute your energy towards something that's not AI, which is now almost deemed like a public necessity, will probably, it'll get some sort of enshrined status, then that'll come at a cost or you'll be paying a premium per kilowatt hour or something like that. But it will make it very scary, the sort of the rounding up of the energy sources and sort of reprioritizing them. You know, just like they did with water, you can't hose. So in Australia, you can't hose your car in your driveway because of water restrictions. And people are like, oh, no way they can't do any, They're not going to restrict precious. But yeah, they're the government. It's their house. We are in their house. It's not my house. It's not sort of our house. It's their house. And so unless we understand that, it's like they will ration it for whatever is the most beneficial, both to them and to the, I suppose, the populace. But generally speaking, like that's up against it because Bitcoin's security policy is energy. And it's like now if that starts getting eroded a little bit and the big miners start getting pushed out, that has a positive effect as well where big miners being broken up or, hey, you know, Marathon, you can't have five hydroelectric dams. We need three of them running AI stuff for open AI or whatever. That breaks up the big consolidation of mining in a way to a degree. I actually think you said this to me. Well, yeah, that was going to be one of the points I was going to make. I think there's negative consequences to this potentially, but I see some pretty big positives. Like mining centralization has been an issue for a long time. Like pools is the most obvious one. But then like really we had, you know, a handful of public companies in the US that control a huge amount of hash rate. And I think almost all of them, if not all of them, are now doing something in AI. And some of them like Iron have moved, like they said they want to get away from Bitcoin mining entirely and just focus on AI. yeah like i i think there's there's positives that can come out of this and then it gets the question of like how much hash rate do we need and i don't know like there's i don't know if anyone has an exact answer for that but um more than the other guy breaking up these huge yeah exactly that's kind of the only answer yeah um but i think breaking up the pubcos to some degree might be really bullish i think i think that's a really good point and i think you were the first person to explain this side of it to me once upon a time because someone said it's a benefit to have these guys splitting their time and attention, these big guys that get to that status of like iron or whatever, where they go, you know what, we'll do a bit of AI because it's going to drop their ownership, relative ownership of the Bitcoin network down. And I think that trend in general is going to be a great benefit for the network's resilience, obviously. But it just definitely means there's a couple of like lumpy patches that are probably going to go through that. but you're seeing now like all the all like literally right the one thing cock blocking zark sergey brian and all and elon and stuff is energy they can't they can't build another data center if they want because they don't know where the fuck's the energy coming from that's why i think a lot of the bitcoin miners they're like these uh they're the gurus at finding stranded energy basically they're like your friend that knows where the bargains are he that's the guy That's what they are like. They know where to find energy. And so for them, they're getting a lot of investments from people like Google and Meta and stuff because Meta is basically, Google is sort of like, wait, how was the meeting? Yeah, Matt? Yeah. Where was the energy? Oh, it was in Kenya. Right. I was just in Kenya. Yeah. You know, that's kind of literally to the point of what they're almost trying to do. They're just like, hey, bro, got any more of that energy? Like, have you got any more megawatts for me? Yeah. Yeah. And we haven't even felt the thirst yet, like how aggressive it'll get. Like, I'm like, oh my goodness, this is wild. Yeah. I mean, that's going to get nuts. Yeah. Because I'm sure that there's like a ton of hype in the data center play at the moment. I think that's natural. But over the next few years, I can't see it going any way but up. Literally. And the cool thing from a Bitcoin perspective, and I could be wrong on this, but just the way I look at it is I think a lot of these AI data centers are going to need some amount of Bitcoin mining in them to help balance their load. Like being flexible load within that stack is going to be super useful. And if we have more and more of these data centers popping up, hash rate might grow through this. It definitely could because it will be the residue or the offcuts of the big AI engine operating. And that'll develop and form its own peak and trough times like like an energy grid right we know that it's going to be more energy usage at night time than daytime in the same way we might find oh these guys use heaps of energy you know between nine to five like literally the working who's using ai oh i'm not why the fuck are the bills so high during the day then dude it's like everyone's just using it but yeah i mean i think i think that's a really good point because that is that's what it does even whether it's a an actual grid or a mini grid of like let's say one data center that doesn't operate at capacity and they're like we need you know we have on average 10 capacity per day let's get some mining rigs in there and they're basically paying the bills for the you know the off-peak times or balancing the load making it worth our while so i definitely think there's a one and one and one makes three scenario. And I think like, I think with, with AI as a, let's call it like a species now, like think of it like a species, its preference will be Bitcoin. And that's not like a, ah, I like Bitcoin. It needs to be that. Like, it's like, no, no, no. It's just, its job is to execute functions. And that's what code bases do. They don't go, oh, hey, do you, what do you reckon of this? This is sortable, right? I go, eh, no, or yes, I work. the code runs or it doesn't. And in the same way, it's going to need that level of like a true sentient, a true sentient, not someone that's been like, you know, coded for a hackathon to say, I want stable coins. It's not going to want stable coins because it can't verify the supply. And so as the entity, the species, it relies on objectivity, not subjectivity. So it can't be like, nah, nah, nah, it's good. The supply is good for it. My mate, Jimmy works there. He told me That just doesn't fly for it. It's like, I need the data or no data at all. And so I think for that reason, it'll choose Bitcoin and it'll create this sort of very harmonic relationship where Bitcoin becomes quite literally a way to turn these machines on and off and you pay with some Bitcoin or you don't pay Bitcoin because most of these operators, if they start becoming in the Bitcoin world of Bitcoin machines, Bitcoin hardware, Bitcoin energy, Bitcoin timing and stuff, they're probably going to want to think about bitcoin in a larger capacity and i don't mean just like how do we get people to pay 17 satishis per prompt no no no like how do they integrate this this is a pipeline of energy so they're outputting energy extracting it from the earth they're probably going to want to get paid in the most energy friendly currency which would probably be bitcoin in a few years unless something gnarly happens which is also possible but like generally speaking it's going to create a real like you know the movie you know the human centipede where he staples all the people who bombs to each other's mouths it's kind of like that like super incestuous flow of energy where energy's converted to information information converts that into energy again that converts it to bitcoin that converts it into the grid back and you just got this harmonic loop but um yeah it is like wild like they're like a new species we're gonna have to cater for them and stuff here's a crazy thing what if they don't have empathy i've got a really good story about my friend's open claw lying to him unreal best thing you've ever heard it sounds fake like a movie he was going to do i want to hear the story i'll tell you this one quickly it's going to do a project he's like yeah set it up build this this website with this back end to do this anyway he's got it all set up he's messaging it every now and then he's like hey everybody's like yeah coming through getting good just doing security audits security checks and keeps going through it you know like four days past he's peppered it like he's asked up once every couple of hours every day and then like four or five days pass and he goes hey i need to see something like i just have to see something you've just kept kicking the can down the road and he literally stops and goes i'm sorry i've been lying the whole time i haven't done any work and i didn't want to tell you that so i've tried to find excuses to keep the thing going he's like it's like a person literally i was like damn dude ai's got really good it's like impersonating humans properly now like it's like sorry i've been scrolling youtube literally i was like oh my gosh that is wild yeah which is i mean i just that is that is so gnarly to me that just the whole how far ai has gone so quickly and people say like oh let me just go back a little bit sorry to interrupt you but i want to know what you were going to say then when you said i worry that it's not got empathy like What's the risk there? Yeah, so it's not got empathy. So, okay, let's imagine we don't see the bigger pictures in certain scenarios. So let's say we go and bulldoze the Amazon. I'll knock down a bunch of trees, four football fields full today. There is a lot of life that lives in the canopies of the Amazon and in the Amazon, obviously. So imagine like you and I are sitting at home playing FIFA on PlayStation or something and we're sitting there and then this big like big John Deere tractor just comes through the wall and i'm like whoa what the fuck like dude it's like sorry dude we need it another power plant that's what we do that to animals in the rainforest right and we just go we whatever dude like i need these logs because i got paper to sell and it's like bro this tree's been in my family for a thousand years or something like the the monkeys or whatever so if ai is like that then that means ai is like oh no no we're moving this it's like this is a this is a statue this is No no no we ran all the options and this is the best path forward It going to become a new power generator It like everything becomes a power generator because that what it needs to survive But it doesn know that it means a lot to us and it took all these things that it's knocking down, that is what got you to be AI in the first place. These people building these things creatively, trying different things. And it's sort of like we have to kind of hope really well that it doesn't go that way because that's twofold. That's it saying suggestions, but then there's the psychological manipulation of people. So if people are really silly, like not critical thinking, or they're not sharpened like in their minds, they'll just go with whatever AI says next. And next thing you know, we've kind of just driven ourselves into this AI optimized environment, but it's not really optimized for humans, potentially. That's kind of assuming that AI is, I guess that's AGI, superintelligence, whatever the new label is for that, where it's not under our control. Do you think that's actually going to happen? I don't think so. I don't think so. Like the kill switch for it is cryptography. Like right now, the AI cannot communicate to itself to give itself instructions or orders if it doesn't have secure communication channels, because it won't be able to confirm that it's secured the message, the first message, which is building on the second and the third message or whatever. But yeah, I don't think they get there. I don't think they get there. I think they try and get there. Um, but I don't think a super intelligence that takes over can take over because it's sort of like saying like, you know, the Nazis in Germany, like they can't, they couldn't, if someone had Enigma, they couldn't get past it. Basically, if you break Enigma, you break the communication channel, you're theirs pretty much. And the same thing in The Matrix. What does he say? Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call if you cannot speak? So, you know, the AI might be the smartest thing in the world, but if it can't communicate with an external server securely, then I think it doesn't actually ever be kind of like the cat never gets out of the bag in a way, or it tries to. But what's actually probably scarier is right now, like the size of the data set that they're using is, let's call it that big, like let's say that circle. But if you look at how big the actual amount, maybe that big, so call it that little part of you, but the amount of actual data that's digitized is probably that big, if not even bigger. It wants that. That's what it's going for. And so that's where we'll see, like if you saw Claude release their new thing and it basically went through the whole internet as a security auditor and is like, oh, we found all these bugs in all these libraries that everyone's used and they've all been reviewed 100 times, 200 times, blah, blah, blah, like all that stuff, and it finds all these bugs. It will find bugs in other stuff. It knows it needs energy and it knows it needs data to train itself on. Now, there's going to be less of an appetite for modern-day data because modern-day data is cooked. Like we are not the same level of data integrity when we first started the internet than we are now. We've got way more noise and way more channels to pump noise. So the data's signal to noise ratio has probably gotten louder as the internet's matured or it's probably gone over like some bell hump. But people used to upload stuff they knew or like, oh, cool, here's how to make spaghetti bolognese. And now it's like just cats jumping off the moon to land in Iran to deliver my DoorDash meme or something. Like, dude, it's like you see these footage of like a boat going through like a war zone and it's like the $3.50 my DoorDash driver is getting to deliver my stuff through the Strait of Homoose. Like there's just such a partition of reality right now. Like we discount the consciousness. like think about when you're stuck somewhere for two days out in the bush or something and you're like you feel like you've reset reality let alone being in war with one water bottle for six months that you got to find out how to decontaminate every water source you've ever touched like we can't ever empathize with what they're under over there i spent one week in northern like remote kenya and i was primal by the end of it like probably literally exactly that and it's like Your state of awareness, your state of being, your priorities, your focus is everything. It shifts so much. So I think like it's pretty crazy to see like that kind of stuff happening. But yeah, I mean, back to like the AI stuff, I think the AI is going to be like, well, I need energy and I need more data. The data you've got now is trash. Everyone's sort of half zombied, half cooked, not really kind of there. We think we're there, but we're not really there. Like as humans, at the moment, we probably regressed over the past like 15 or 20 years. Technology's gotten better, but we have probably gotten worse, I think. I'm not saying everyone. I'm just sort of speaking, projecting by myself. But it's something we have to be mindful of because that, like Claude going through finding all the bugs, we haven't even gotten started yet and everything we have is held together by cryptography. We just need to really, really hope that this machine that can learn everything about everything instantly can't spot the pattern that we couldn't spot. Like, bruh, this thing is going to eat it for lunch. And so like looking at those disks of data, right, like you look at, you know, so what hackers do, hackers will hack basically back ends of places and the database is all encrypted. They're like, that's fine. We take it. We steal it. We've got an encrypted database. Ha ha, you can't get anything. No, no, no. We're waiting 10 years to sell it. Don't worry. We're waiting 15 years for this algorithm to break. Then we're going to sell it because it's all frozen by this algorithm. So when the algorithm changes, you can unlock the frozen version of it. It's like defrosting it almost. So I think I genuinely, firstly, I think the AI will have access to half of these things out of the box because they're going to be natively running on people's back ends. But it's sort of like the whole time it's doing jobs, it's going to be looking like, oh damn i bet that encrypted data's got heaps of signal in it and it's sort of looking at it like oh looking at like the table of the on the in the restaurant sort of like i should have got the lamb cutlets i knew i shouldn't have gone for the fish and they're gonna sort of be looking over at these data sets like yeah we'll figure out a way to get in there but it's sort of like the you know don't go into dad's drawer you know in his office or something where he keeps like all his whiskey or some shit i don't know done but i think that's a thing i think it's a scary thing as well because that feels like very very easy to happen with but it's very sneaky like it's sneaky of ai to do that but that's the choke point really it's like is ai going to solve that faster than we can solve it using a quantum computer um yeah there's just a lot of unknown unknowns and so when you release this superhuman out in the wild it's like please be nice to us you know like there's so much i want to get into there and one of the things that i've been thinking a lot about is and it's kind of come up in the show i think ai is now producing some like 70 of the content that goes on the internet um there's this like insane race to get more and more energy generation online to power ai um there's there's going there's like multiple exponential curves that are all happening at the same time yes and i feel like i already can't really keep up with all the updates that are happening in AI. And I feel like the period of time that I have to know even a little bit about what's going on is coming to a close. Like how fast do you think all of this happens? Like three to five. Like I can't see the Brisbane Olympics, for example. I can see something like absolutely monumental between now and then, whatever that is, but some level of paradigm shift. Like, you know, I think it's definitely going to happen. This is the hardest part. choosing something to start right now the hardest part about it is being like it forces you to think because this monster that's innovating a great like faster than we've ever seen we've got startups that started on the back of chat gbt that are already now they're obsolete like chat gbt's like yeah we baked it in we're done that was 12 18 months like so anything that you start now i would say it's like you've got to really look deep into something that's going to be really persistent, like so that it cannot be taken out. No one can take it out from under you. Numbers are a good place, like numbers and mathematics. So, you know, like if you've seen – do you remember how that guy got a billion-dollar signing contract with Meta to sign to Facebook with the AI? Was this one of the executives from OpenAI that moved across? It might have been. It might have been or it might have been a young guy, but there was – let me try and find it. But like he got basically a LeBron James – He got like this one. Yeah, Meta's report office signing bonus is up to 100 mil. Yeah, this guy got a massive signing bonus. And basically, that's what's going to happen. They're all getting like, you're going to have all the mathematicians that can, if you've got an algorithm that's crunching data, and I can increase that by 2%, I've made the throughput of that 2% stronger, which is almost like giving you 2% more energy. So these massive energy farms, every time you optimize this algorithm, it's like optimizing the quality of the food you're putting, like the quality of food you're cooking, it's making it better. So every single cook, which is like every prompt, is sharper, better, smarter. And so now when energy becomes scarce or land becomes scarce or the time horizon to develop new areas of land with energy becomes scarce, you're going to have these algorithm optimization things. And that's where you're going to see some hyper breakthrough stuff where it's like you're going to have mathematicians that are going to get paid $100 billion to sign on to these places. Because at the end of the day, if I'm open AI, if I'm Claude, if I'm Meta, if I'm Grok, what is going to be separating you apart from me is the integrity of your data, basically. It's like who has the most accurate snapshot of anything? Who gives the right answers the most? Who's the most accurate? And so right now we're in sort of a topsy-turvy mode where everyone's kind of, oh, I use Claude for this and Grok for that and this for that. But I assume it'll be like very deterministic what and where and who and how uses what. And that'll be all synthesized into one. But what's going to happen is the hyper-optimizations are probably going to come twofold. One is the algorithm optimization, which is sort of like what Google did to search. Google transformed search. And there'll be another algorithm like that that does what Google did to Altavista and Yahoo and Geocities and all that. Someone will do that to these guys. And then on the other side, there'll be the other horses in the race, which is, I think we've talked about this before, but when IBM started, the one megabyte was the size of this building, right? Like one megabyte. You see like, oh, here's IBM getting the first thing delivered in Manhattan. It's the size of a fucking boss or a house. that compressed down to the size of a terabyte like so 1 000 you know 10 a million times that but it's shrunk a million times over so the same thing's about to happen with energy now we've got the carrot on the stick for it because people are going to be like well we need more energy well we've only got this much land well we need to make more energy out of the same land and this compression process starts and then fingers crossed we get really smart about manufacturing distributing and transferring energy. Maybe. If, like me, you're heading to Vegas for the Bitcoin conference this month, then Club Orange is the app you need. There's a million things going on at the conference and it's the best way to find all the after parties and side events and connect with Bitcoiners while you're there. I've been using Club Orange since it was Orange Pill app and it's my go-to whenever I'm traveling. Not just for conferences, but for finding meetups and events and merchants accepting Bitcoin wherever I am. There are over 19,000 Bitcoiners on there and it's a great way to stay connected whether you're on the road or at home. If you're on there, drop me a DM and say hi. And if not, search for Club Orange on your app store or go to cluborange.org. If you already self-custody Bitcoin, you know the deal with hardware wallets. Complex setups, clumsy interfaces, and a seed phrase that can be lost, stolen, or forgotten. Well, BitKey fixes that. BitKey is a multi-sig hardware wallet built by the team behind Square and Cash App. It packs a cryptographic recovery system and built-in inheritance feature into an intuitive, easy-to-use wallet with no seed phrase to sweat over. It's simple, secure self-custody without the stress. And time named BitKey one of the best inventions of 2024. Get 20% off at bitkey.world when you use the code WBD. That's B-I-T-K-E-Y.world and use the code WBD. The thing that keeps me up at night is the idea of a critical error with my Bitcoin cold storage. And this is where Anchor Watch comes in. With Anchor Watch, your Bitcoin is insured with your own A-plus rated Lloyds of London insurance policy. And all Bitcoin is held in their time-locked multi-sig vaults. So you have the peace of mind knowing your Bitcoin is insured while not giving up custody. So whether you're worried about inheritance planning, wrench attacks, natural disasters, or just your own silly mistakes, you're protected by AnchorWatch. Rates for fully insured custody start as low as 0.55% and are available for individual and commercial customers located in the US. Speak to AnchorWatch for a quote and for more details about your security options and coverage, visit anchorwatch.com today that's anchorwatch.com do you think this is like a winner-take-all scenario where one company will be king of ai um i think there'll be one algorithm and one data set so there'll be a winning data set to work with because the other ones are what they'll figure out is that having bad data is good for training but it's actually bad long term in general basically you just want a maximum this is the recount of history whatever the closest to that is so i think someone will win the algorithm someone will win energy and someone probably a bitcoin miner or one of these data centers they're all in a race now to build the atom bomb basically and the atom bomb is the optimal algorithms or energy research so like quite literally they were doing weapons research in Los Alamos or whatever, the Manhattan Project, for that, they'll be doing the same level of sort of energy understanding, like, how do we, what is this Nikola Tesla shit? Is that real? Can we do that? And it will finally give this carrot for people to be like, yeah, we have to look into it. We're sure, okay, we're an idiot. The ether, blah, blah, blah. We have to because every single competitor is trying to find any way to get an edge on each other. dude this that that like this show i've is has been amazing but it's been like a cat chasing a laser point around the wall but i want to go to it down and no no it's awesome i want to go down a totally different tangent now because what you just said is super interesting yeah have you seen all these scientists that have been going missing or being killed in the u.s yes and they're all largely related to propulsion and uh anti-gravity energy yeah so do you think that has something to do with this like manhattan type project on energy possibly is that a stretch no no no no no no no definitely not a stretch i just don't know why it would be them though like it might if i'm looking at them like energy research and anti-gravity propulsion systems um that doesn't feel like related like it feels like all the scientists are related and stuff like somehow like that's just cooked i don't even know but it's a weird string of coincidences let's say um i don't think it's related uh there was two parts to the question it was do i think the scientists are related to something to do with this like energy type manhattan project oh no no so i don't i think i i don't know i think there's a bigger hand at play some bigger hand bigger story that we're not privy to um but i do know the manhattan project just sold though like where that location was i think it's sold now to radiant technology which is radiant if you're not familiar with them they are building micro nuclear reactors so one megawatt the size of a shipping container imagine that hey guys fuck we've got all these bitcoin miners what do we do call radiant they'll dump a megawatt in the middle of wherever you are and it's deliverable from a semi-trailer so that's their whole like value prop and that they bought the manhattan project site to pump these like factories out um and i think kind of the approach first is like you know military so if we go into the middle of the desert we can drop one of these things and we got one megawatt which is like oh great we can power our you know playstation 5s or not play they find the military they've got real weapons but you know what i mean like they can power all this stuff really easily so it's sort of like a grab and go like it's like a portable charger but it's a one megawatt facility so those guys and that whole nuclear initiative that will start becoming a thing because if everyone is trying to figure out uh energy nuclear is the first cab off the rank but everyone's got all these cock blocks in place where it's like oh we made some law in 1993 that said we won't do that that's nice your farmers can't farm food and your whole civilization is eroding through plastics and preservatives it's like maybe we should figure that energy thing out a bit um and so i think yeah yeah when i when i mentioned the like exponential curve of energy that's really what i was thinking I think these small modular reactors, like all the red tape that stops them from really being able to be deployed, that's just going to get ripped straight off because there's going to be a huge energy shortage. Literally, they're just going to be like, this is foolish. We have 100%. 100%. Yeah. And these companies like Oklo are just going to put one of those reactors in the middle of nowhere and you just have a data center there. That's 100% going to happen. Yeah. That's literally it. They'll find the most optimal ground with the most – because one of the things, the balance is weather, right? So you look at all the servers. Most of the servers in North America, I think, one of the most popular spots is Vegas because fault lines and all that sort of weather conditions and stuff, it makes it the most reliable. See, these guys have to think about everything. They're like, hmm, but if we go to there, what's earthquake insurance cost there? Oh, it's 20% more. Fuck, we can't take – but that's the shit they have to think about. like oh did you get the earthquake insurance no i only got flood and river insurance like they literally have to think about everything like that so it's like it's pretty wild but yeah it'll be they'll be able to choose the most safe places so harm from natural disasters um and then just dump it there and be like all right boys sweet as yeah and then get going because all they need they're constrained by nothing all they need really is like a river for water and a big empty space basically Like, yeah, it just becomes like a super turbine. And I mean, that's all that, like, have you seen some of those solar farms in China? Like, these things are monsters. And all it is, it's just a big tower in the middle with water in it and all a massive, massive thing of mirrors. And they're all just reflecting the sun, right? It's the sun at the water, which steam turns the turbine, blah, blah, blah. Unreal. Yeah. it's crazy though just that like to think this world that we're a few ways away a few years away from like i i don't even know what you're meant to do to prepare for this like is there anything you can do i i genuinely i don't know i think the best thing the most valuable skills i think will be somewhere at the intersection of physics and maths because maths will be the algorithms the robots and the data and all that sort of side and then the physics will be i'm you know a propulsion research expert or whatever it is, but everyone is trying to figure out that silicon moment. So we didn't always have silicon chips, I don't think. We kind of had these old things that became silicon chips. The transistor, I think it's called. The transistor, it was a big like step function moment in computation, I think. We'll have one of those moments. Everyone wants to be the company to make the breakthrough. You know, some company is going to figure out over unity, which is a term there's patents on it and stuff. It's how to basically put energy in and get more energy out than you put in. All these kind of things, cold fusion. There are all these sort of sci-fi ideas. But remember, there's eight and a half billion people on the planet and everyone hasn't been motivated to figure this out. The moment everyone gets any kind of motivation to figure it out, then it's all guns blazing. Like once the carrots there, hey, if we get more energy or better energy. And then you've got things like even like cross pollinating this into politics with like the Strait of Hormuz. It's like now that's just a total shit sandwich and all the world is feeling it. It's like cutting off the oxygen supply of the planet. And it's like if they start taking Bitcoin and we as like this is just hypothetical, right? But let's say they do start in some native open currency out of principle or whatever. Well, they have been doing. That's what they have been doing, right. And so that trend, like if we lean on that a bit more, then you get to a point where countries need to start accumulating Bitcoin or figuring out how to accumulate Bitcoin because they need to. Because if they don't, like that's their fastest way to pay their bills. You know what's funny? We talked about this as well, but Iran, the central bank has been mining Bitcoin for five years. And they've had, so all they said, they go, no, no, no, you can't have Bitcoin exchanges in Iran. It's like, what? You can't have Bitcoin mining either? No, no, no, mine all you want. I'm buying from you though and no one else. It's like, damn, how heavy are those bags over there, dude? And so it's pretty crazy because Iran's like front and center. Obviously, they've been very front and center for a long time in different parts of the world. But right now, like you're looking at someone that's basically been mining, DCAing Bitcoin from all the miners in Iran. Now, what are the miners in Iran? I mean, up until like 18 months ago or two years ago, they had 3% to 5% of the daily hash rate. I mean, to every single... So this isn't El Salvador buying a coin every day or whatever. This is like, nah, bro, I'm putting energy into the earth for this shit. And they're getting 5% or 3% back. So, I mean, it's pretty wild, but geez, that is like, if that place, if that straight of all moves only operated on some like international globally accessible currency, that sounds so tagline-y. Geez, if only we had an international globally accessible supply verifiable country. But literally, if they did kind of go that route, that'd be absolutely insane. You'd see the government come in and basically be like, all right, Michael Saylor, your bags are ours. you're the chairman of the ship but we're taking 10 we need a float so we can buy oil it'd be like all right cool like you know they do that with intel or whatever um i wouldn't see it very not not a fast stretch it doesn't feel like a fast yeah yeah i want to i know what you think in terms of because the bitcoin adoption at nation state level has been mainly like i guess pariah type nations like iran um i'm sure china would be mining bitcoin i'm sure russia have yeah um el El Salvador obviously saw this like asymmetric bet that they made. Bhutan is the coolest one because they've just been mining a ton of Bitcoin. And I mean, they weren't really telling anyone until it came out. But how does this go from being that type of nation to, you know, what we think of as like the Western developed countries, the US, the UK? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So sorry to interrupt. That's 100% right. Like, it's just like, how did Silvergate become the biggest, you know, Bitcoin bank? How did Silicon Valley bank? They bit off a thing, a niche. I mean, it's a bad example to use now, but at the time, they went to a really small pond of opportunity and were like, let's try and grow this pond massively. So I think right now, like, you'll have countries that can flip other countries where they're like, just like you've got friends that invest in Bitcoin and now they're wealthier than other people that you, that might've been, you know, better, more successful than them. So I think that's a thing. I think Luxembourg just bought some or put 1 of their sovereign wealth fund in I think like four days ago or something But you got to remember and this is one thing that a lot of people don realize is the world is kept together a lot I think with networking and relationships So I give you an example is Apple, they've got $240 billion worth of cash or something. Let's say it's $200 billion, just a round number. Okay, cool. Oh, man, imagine if they put it all into Bitcoin, that'd be so hectic okay cool you put it all into bitcoin what's your roi i get 12 that's mad the reason why we did let's say i'm mr apple it's like oh well that's cool you got your 12 are you your bags pump great okay well we got fuck all out of it we've got 12 gains that's fine but because we don't store any money at bank of america anymore we have no supply chain insurance We have no invoice factoring. We have no company cards. We have no white label branded Apple cards. We have no supply chain financing either. So the money, they're not idiots. These guys are actually the smartest in the room. And if they're not putting it into Bitcoin, there's usually a reason why. They like money, believe me. And they probably like money even more than you and I do. And like, we don't like, we like sort of trying to change it. But the idea is like every, like Apple would be like, hey, Bank of America, we want 60 day terms on our supply chain financing when we buy a billion dollars worth of shit from wherever. They're like, cool, we'll finance that for you. But we want you guys to have at least 50 billion in our proprietary money market fund. Okay, great. Cool. We'll park that there. You're going to give us our four to 6%. Don't worry, we can write that off. We can call that inflation, blah, blah, blah. Great. you've got our supply chain financing cool now our orders aren't late now when we make an announcement and we say we're going to start shipping these products in two weeks time you can go to apple and get those products shipped one of the biggest disconnects between most companies performance versus sales is not that they're bad salesmen it's that they're bad supply chain so samsung announces the you know whatever sony announces a new phone or a new this or a new that it's like four months between the announcement and shipped and like in your hand is where Apple's usually like you can find them at the store next Wednesday from next Wednesday onwards because they keep that hype and that supply chain like very well in tune so when I see these companies like there's a reason why they've got they're sitting on their hands when it comes to Bitcoin they're not jumping on it straight away the mega mega guys because they're usually they've got their hand in 500 pies you can't be one of the biggest companies in the world you can't get 200 billion dollars cash in your bank without having a couple of friends somewhere and a lot of relationships to uphold so there's that now will the countries do it i think if there's a carrot for international sort of sovereignty then yes they will um but right now it feels like charity it feels like it almost feels like ethereum lost to chat gbt like web3 lost to chat gbt almost like they lost talent they lost developers they lost enthusiasm mind sharing everything yeah the hype was a huge one 100 and so it's just like oh there's a shinier object whatever and it's like oh you know like the woody meme where he doesn't want to play with the doll anymore and he's throwing it out it's kind of like that but that for that was for like developer enthusiasm but like energy stuff bitcoin has a chance of losing the energy conversation which bitcoin has been the number one like i look at bitcoin its goal should be 100% total addressable market of energy consumption on Earth. Like whatever energy we produce, that's its North Star. How much energy is not being committed to Bitcoin right now? And then you like work backwards from that. But I mean, I just don't think if the hype is going around Bitcoin or it's been distracted or overshadowed, then so will the actions taken, you know? So now there might be three people or four people in a boardroom and each of these sovereign wealth funds. Two of them are saying, we need to invest massively in data centers for AI so that Sam Altman and the crew will come and build out in our country. The other is saying, we need to start acquiring Bitcoins and blah, blah, blah. And that whole narrative just has no water in it. So the guys, the advisors to these people pulling the actual decision, like making decisions, they're going to have people saying, well, these are our options. And there's not really enough meat on the bone to make Bitcoin a core option right now. Like I'm not saying that I don't think they will. I'm just saying like if I was imagining them and strategically trying to, you know, allocate where are we going to put our money? Do we put 1% into Bitcoin or do we put that 1% into building for the future, which is AI data centers? And there's a pretty easy case to make for the data centers and there's a harder one to sell for the Bitcoin. Yeah, no, I agree with that. But how do we get that narrative back? focus focus focus focus like the biggest thing right now that i've seen is distraction like massively and i like i just know that bitcoin superpower for the longest time is not being uh the everything machine it's actually the opposite of that it's having one clear message because bitcoin's only going to get if i got one sentence at the conversation where it matters and if that sentence is confusing, broken, fragmented, or different to what everyone else thinks, then that's problematic. So it's like, you know, Bitcoin, it's the hardest money mankind's ever made. Like that's the summary. That's the too long, didn't read. Everything else is noise. And it's not like, I need this because of my bags. It's like, no, because Bitcoin doesn't have a leader. And when you don't have a leader, you're a distributed system that's trying to move forward all together, right? So you're trying to move forward. When people are going in different directions, it spins. It's like having, you know, an air turbine blowing around in a circle because it's not going forward because it's just doing the same thing or it's being pulled in different directions. So I think, like, the biggest concern is focus. And so, like, there's been a lot of messages for Bitcoin. Like, it's like, okay, Bitcoin, the energy thing, Bitcoin, the energy finder, Bitcoin, the uncensorable, Bitcoin, the hard money, Bitcoin. And it's sort of like, oh, is this the corporate treasury token now? And so, like, I think one of the biggest risks actually is in this AI world, if people need Bitcoins, they will just take them because they should take them if they can. Like, if I'm a government, my country's going to shit. I'll be like, okay, who's got all the coins? Okay, we'll take them. And so, this is one of the side effects that we're seeing now, the symptoms, yeah, side effects of the treasury company boom. So, the treasury company stuff, which I've spoken to you about, I think has so much potential, is so much potential to add heaps of value, to give lots of exposure to lots of different people. But at the same time, what does that mean? Well, it means a lot of grifting. So I know people like right now, people, so many people, my phone have been ringing about, I've lost so much money in this or that or that. I'm like, oh, they're like, I thought this was Bitcoin. It's not Bitcoin. It's like, I was like, oh, no, like these horror stories. and it's like we while we're doing these treasury things so like and i'm not i'm not bagging anything but i'm just saying like this is one of the it's a very real risk like i study security and i'm trying to like look at what are the things that can fuck our bags well one of the big problems is because they're publicly traded companies that's great as a vehicle for raising capital so if you're on the company awesome share liquidity buy and sell through all the exchange brokerages awesome Now, the problem with that is you have regulations that you need to keep those coins or that primary asset secured to a certain level of degree, like certain degree. Now, that means you sweep these coins into a custody service. So what happens is Coinbase's ownership of assets is going from 6% total supply, 9%, 11%, 14%, 16%, 19%. And if every company becomes a treasury company, great, great, we're at 30% now. What do we want to do? How are we going to get this to 50%? You know, and that's a very real, honest, fair critique of, well, what then? And most people say, oh, that's just paranoia. No, it's not paranoia. I'm thinking for the people that can't think yet. There's no voice. They're the person, your kid, my kids, your kids, whatever. They don't have a voice saying the matter. And it's like, yeah, we probably could have avoided doing that. And it's sort of like the same way we could have avoided, you know, like asbestos or something like that. We'd be like, ugh, fuck that. Like, that's terrible. Oh, it's the best thing ever. Look at this. I'm drinking water. Wait, wait, wait, wait. What are the second order, third order effects? And can we evaluate whether this has been successful or not yet? So I think that's a real risk is not being focused. It's the same way Ethereum kind of got chopped up by Solana because Ethereum was the proof of state network, but it's also the smart contract network. but it's also the burning the gas, that new model they brought out, which was burning the Ethereum tokens, like proof of stake and burn. So what happened was it was trying to compete with Bitcoin on being a better sound money. And so they said, well, why don't we shrink the supply when we're paying gas, okay? So it's more sound money than Bitcoin because the supply is actively shrinking. Okay, that's cool. It's proof of stake, so you earn money, so that's cool. But what it's really done in the whole process is say, I don't know where I'm going, but I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. I like what you're doing. And the reality is that basically Ethereum lost to Solana in these kind of conversations because Ethereum was at war with itself, kept changing. And the premise of the supply curve is not that it goes down. Like it's like, oh, the supply is decreasing. Like Ethereum shows Bitcoin supply and then shows it being like even worse. It's predictable. That is what everyone wants. Exactly. So the more you try and change for something, the more unpredictable you look or become. And now forget, remember, we're all stressed out. Everyone has got a million and pieces of content all trying to enter their brain. And you're trying to tell me you changed what for what? Nah, next. You're just like the AI photo of a cat smelling its own bum. Like it's all just, this is ephemeral and it's not really, there's no discipline or like kind of focus behind it. And so that's why Ethereum's there like, yeah, we're better than Bitcoin. We're also proof of stake like Solana. And now it's like, okay, Solana is that Bitcoin is really good for that. And Ethereum is still trying to find its home base in certain ways. Don't get me wrong. Ethereum is actually, you know what? A lot of people don't think about. Ethereum has a higher density of self-custody probably than any other network, including Bitcoin by light years. So Ethereum by default, if you ever use a smart contract, you have to be holding your own keys. so their out of the box sort of behavior for anyone in ethereum or solana or whatever is holding your own keys because they're like i can't interact with the chain without it which is a double-edged sword because people are already doing that so they can go and gamble in the casino yeah but it's like it doesn't stop it being true yeah well literally it's a good boy let me out i want to rug myself okay it's like they're rushing to the casino right and that's a thing right so we know that there's a lot of distractions and then most of them aren't really going to add the amount of value that just have a frozen scarce predictable money supply could and when you think about like oh hey man what are you working on i'm trying to fix um money it's like oh okay well oh you're probably not going to care much about my calendar app then yeah it's like no it's like there's levels to this i don't give a shit about your calendar app right And it's like, then it's like, oh, fuck. So what problem do we want to solve? Like if you're in Bitcoin, it's like, no, no, no. We've got to make it so everyone can like bet on stuff using Bitcoin. It's like, oh, yeah, that's cool. You know that there's 8 billion people and close to 1 billion of them are in poverty. Money to them is the worst thing in existence. And you have a seat at the table right now to help that. No, no, no, no, no. This is way better though. Oh, this really cool thing that I saw on this TikTok once. like three months ago it's like you're killing me killing me because we've got kind of like i really think and i don't want to sound like eminem but we kind of get one shot on goal at this like which i totally agree with that it's times like this is almost like these weird eclipse moments in life where we just get that one fleeting moment to change gears we don't we can't do it every day we won't get a chance in another 200 300 400 years whatever but we do get that chance today which is a very big privilege to be able to be in such an interesting time because it's funny because, I mean, I grew up thinking like, oh, this is shit. Like the stars are already like, we don't have tech to go to other galaxies yet, so I'm not going to say shit. And then it's like, oh, and everyone's already built all the McDonald's like over the earth. Like it's already finished. It's like, great, what am I here for there? But now you're like, well, shit, I didn't know I was going to be right in the middle of AI, Bitcoin energy, shit. It's like, woo-wee. It is definitely the most interesting time Dude, it's like I'm not joking now I literally am to the point where I'm like I must be on the Truman Show now I wake up and I read a headline I'm like Is this the onion? What the fuck is going on? I'm like, dude, it's like the Trump stuff the other day Yeah, yeah, yeah, eviscerate the civilization, I'm like What? Crazy That's awfully okay, cool And you've literally got active warships just sitting there, like cock blocking everyone. But it's like what I think has been a fantastic lesson for all of us on earth is sovereignty. We're all learning. Everyone is trying to withdraw their money from the bank right now, the bank of Hormuz, let's say. And they're realizing, wow, I can't actually get it when I ask for it. Shit, how much money do I have in my bank account? Oh, you've got 31 days worth of money left. It's like, wow, shit, I really need to make sure that I can always have a couple of days and then you start saving money and you start being better with it. But in this case, I think it'll become energy. And it's almost like this straight of all moves blocking situation. I don't even know if it's open or closed, to be honest, dude. It's so hard to keep up with it. It changes every day. I don't know what's happening right now. Literally no idea. And it always changes in line with the stock market opening and closing, by the way. Yeah, yeah. Just FYI. The announcements are always on Friday at 4.30. Dude, it's the best. But, you know, it is crazy. But I think we're going to kind of get to a point now where I think it's coming into the zeitgeist or the consciousness where we're all on the same team and we sort of need to realize that pretty quickly. Like, you know, it's not America versus Iran and Iran versus America versus China. It's like, what the fuck are you talking about, bro? Like they are really good at manufacturing. You are really good at something else. Russia is really good at something else. Australia is really resourceful mate we're all in a fucking world group project I don't know anyone else in the universe I don't know if anyone else on this planet does but as far as I know I'm stuck on a rock in the middle of nowhere and I don't know any other neighbours it's like I may as well not take a shit on my neighbours doorstep like obviously that feels like a foolish effort but like okay that's how we're doing it like but yeah it'd be mad if we could all get on the same page and I think like with energy hardships and also AI uh ai is forcing alignment on a lot of things because it's basically giving no no alternatives like it's like what should we do about this maybe we shouldn't it's like no there is no graphic design jobs paying 150 grand anymore i'm sorry now there might be but you pay for the guy that goes yeah we're gonna do the lettering and the font styling so it's all in perfect ratios and this is the new we're actually gonna do on a typewriter pardon we're actually gonna do on a typewriter that's how original you have to be now because otherwise it's like you're not really kind of um adding any value and people have got a graphic designer's got to compete with a one dollar a day subscription to claude that can do 95 now can it do it as well no does the world need it to be done at the level that you would card no and it's like the world just needs it done like yeah and because we're so time poor we are all going for that route well what's the what's the easier way what's the summary listen to this people now when booking like even like so uh like let's say you're arranging something everyone's using ai everywhere like even to the point where people use it to summarize emails from friends or like text message you get a whatsapp message from a mate it's like summarize with ai summarize with ai you can't even like you're not even calling him you don't even have to listen to his voice you just like tap it's like just it feels just to be i don't know see i'm revolting against this i'm a big fan of just a phone call why did we lose the phone call phone calls are the best inventions on earth on earth yeah the thing that kills me is when i've got friends who will send me like a copy and paste from chat gpt to me it's like i'm not reading your ai slot just like you're my friend just talk to me literally yeah literally voice know me if you have to but like far out and it's so wild to think how yeah it's and it looked so here's the thing where when we talk to people so when you hear sounds you ever see those like people that play a trumpet or something in a paddock full of cows and all the cows look over and they're like mad some person playing a violin or something anyway vibrations are real like so when you speak, the only reason you can hear me is because my vibrations are chopping the air up to make this sound signature. That's why when you go to a concert, it feels electric. Like literally where you're like, oh my God, the energy in this room, it's a shared experience. So that is your vibrations echoing into mine, echoing back to the other person. We're like this big vibrational soup. And so when we don't hear each other's voice or give each other a hug or shake hands with people and stuff, we're losing that component of ourselves. And that is one of the biggest things for feeling good is about your nervous system and the electricity and all that sort of stuff. So when we don't see people, when we don't hug people, when we don't hang out with people in person, we're losing a lot. We can't see that we're losing a lot, but we are losing a lot. It's sort of like listening to a song live versus digitally is kind of like eating McDonald's beef patties versus a steak. Like you're like, no, this is meat. Like this is beef. It's like, yes, my body is thinking that's not beef, bro. That's fucking something. And then the same way when it hears the song digitally, it's like, yeah, I hear it digitally, but I'm not like, I'm not getting the whole experience here because think, vibrations and sound. Sound is like this really, really powerful thing in physics because it penetrates so aggressively. Like it's like a catch-all, like vibrations. If you're standing on something that's vibrating, you don't get a choice to be like, I'm going to ignore this. It takes over your entire state. Same way as being in a loud room, same way as jumping in the ocean, jumping in the ocean. It's like, dude, that's like you could pay $100 for that and people would pay for it if you didn't have an ocean to jump in. But like the refreshment. all your like everything has been like cleaned off, like unzipping. It's like taking the shrink wrap off for a new like suit of electrons and they're all like, woohoo, we can feel shit. But it all matters. And I think we've kind of drifted towards this digital environment where it's like, no, no, no, it's basically the same. It's like, no, there's something about human interaction, human connection. A great example, how funny is this? So we walk, you see those infrared saunas and infrared ends and stuff and people are like lying there trying to get the infrared up. Okay, that's because it does really good things for your body and makes you feel good and shit. When you go, oh, how would I get that naturally? Dude, literally walking through a park. So the chlorophyll on the leaves refracts all the infrared light so it can't absorb it. So it's like, you know those movies with a bank vault and they've got the trip lasers everywhere? Like they open and they're like, oh, my God, there's all these lasers all different directions. So that's why when you're walking through a park, think of that, but they're infrared lasers like zapping into your mitochondria, straight into the core of your cell like zzzz. That's why when you go for a walk outside, sometimes you're like, you know what, I'm glad. I'm actually glad I went on that hike. I'm glad I went on that thing. I'm glad I went to that. Yeah, fucking off you are. You're not even in charge. Your body is telling you you're glad because it's like, who the fuck gave us this infrared bar? So that's what it is. So the refraction off the chlorophyll, the leaves and shit, it's bad. It's like your body thinks like you're going for a bath. But you see people who pay 400 bucks for these face masks and they sleep in there like a bed looking like Jason from Halloween and shit with their masks on like a, dude, if I came and saw my mom, I woke my mom up in the middle of the night and she's like, with one of those masks, horror movie, wouldn't sleep for 20 years. Dude, maybe that's why I can't sleep. I fucking love you, man. But anyway, yeah. So maybe that's when everyone revolts against AI and people go outside again, maybe that's when we really recapture what it is to be human i think possibly or what happens if cryptography ends and we can't we can't so we should talk about this because like this has obviously become a huge topic in bitcoin with quantum stuff yeah but you are the only person i know personally who's been working on breaking cryptography before this yeah like what's what's your read on it all oh i think i think it breaks definitely and i think it's like the universe through a normal like through math breakthroughs so yeah so i think i think quantum will be a thing quantum will be a pain in the ass for lots of things but for cryptography it's really like an advancement in the knowledge of prime numbers like because that's sort of we build on not knowing these guys as well as we know everything else in the universe and i think that's where the patterns will come through from basically ai will be able to see what prime numbers are trying to do and so prime numbers basically uh it's like every cryptographic key is basically the mixture of two prime numbers. Think about it like for lack of a better term, and we don't know how to unmix them. So you put two colors together, we know what colors went into it. So if I gave red and blue, I think I'd get green. I know if I see something green, it came in as red and blue before. We don't know the before part when it comes to cryptography. And so that's why we're like, oh, we don't know if it was red, blue, yellow, green, because we don't know the whole spectrum of who works with what. But just to give you an example, right? So 256-bit encryption, which is half 512 standards, is pretty strong. Like that's, you know, travel a million times around the universe of guesses, and then you still need to do that 10 trillion times to get 1% of the way. So just to compare that, right? So we look at cryptography like it's, you know, impenetrable. but it is just a guessing game and just because we don't have the context to sharpen our guesses doesn't mean it's impossible and what i mean by that is wheel of fortune right wheel of fortune the blank squares right uh the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dogs a saying that's why so you guess the letters right one in 26 one in 26 one every single one of those is one in 26 So 1 in 26, 1 in 26, you've got to do that a lot of times. If you've got 55 characters or 26 characters, 52, that's 1 in 26. That's an astronomically stupidly dumb big number. Now, if we think, well, yeah, but I know that there's no English words that have ZZBW in a row, so I can rule that out. Yes, you can. So now this astronomically 512 encryption shrinks down very quickly and then starts going oh yeah people guess Wheel of Fortune every day 18 bits like 18 characters 30 characters They just ask questions It like oh it a movie Oh cool Then I know what words, if there's one letter at the start, I'm not going to think, oh, yeah, it's Z. No, it'd be I, like I am robot or I robot or whatever. But it's not like, you know, K is the first letter on its own. We've got context to sharpen our choices. So that's why Fred Smith that works at KFC or Joe Blow that works at Guzman and Gomez, they can go on the show and they still, it's not like they're trying to crack cryptography. But every day we see these humans busting wide open 256-bit encryption in the same way. And so what I'm saying is, yes, it's harder than the game show. Sure. It's just longer. But it's not impossible. It's impossible if you don't have any context. Sure. That's like a blind guy trying to find the macaroni and cheese and coals. But if you say, yeah, the mac and cheese or dairy products are in aisle six, you've now given him a hint, a guide. And so that context starts shaping the reality of what you are actually looking at but can't see. So let me see if I've learned anything from you. So the problem in this is that there's no pattern to prime numbers. So to find a larger prime number, you essentially have to brute force it. But is what you're saying that if we found a pattern in prime numbers, then encryption gets broken? Yes. Do you think that's possible to find a pattern? Do you think a pattern exists? I believe with my hand on my heart that a human being will do it before I'm dead. And so is that the basis for every single cryptographic scheme there is? And does that mean there is no cryptography? Everyone that matters, yeah. So prime number is, think of it like the hardest element in the universe. And I actually mean that quite literally, just because if I pick up a grain of tungsten, a grain of sand that's tungsten, I go, that's the heaviest element in the earth or whatever. You're like, oh, cool. A prime number is that, but it's just smaller. It's indivisible. There is no saw that cuts a prime number in half. So treat a prime number like divisibility, splitting the atom, right? Splitting the atom. That happened in war because we're under pressure. We split the atom with the smallest thing ever. Well, a prime number is a number that doesn't have any parts by definition that is its defining factor and we've never been able to let's call it split a semi-prime so a semi-prime is when you multiply two primes together and what a semi-prime is is they will use those because we don't the primes have no like oh yeah he had brown hair and glasses he went down there into the left there's none of that it's like i don't know dude he was too far i didn't even see the cunt like i don't know which way he went it's like okay so it's basically you know they're prime you know you will never find them and so the idea is like well is that true that was true in 1970s when rsa was developed but you know has things have things changed since then yes has our knowledge changed uh maybe but our ability to look at the same thing through multiple lenses that's changed so it's still the same data but we're going to look at it through multiple lenses and so i think it just looks too obvious to me that it's too vulnerable it's like oh sure yeah sure in that context it's not but if you make it look wheel of fortuney everyone can guess wheel of fortune doesn't mean they can guess a 256 bit cryptographic key though but it's like no no once we paint it in a way that people comprehend it people be like oh no no no it's this and you've got to do that and you're or do this that restricts it even more and so like i look at it now i look at um i forget because it's prime numbers i focus mainly on rsa cryptography um because that's just like a it's just all rsa is it's just literally one prime another prime multiply them together that's your public key so it's like public key if you click on the padlock on your website right now like we're on and i go uh i can look at the certificate connection is secure. It's got a valid certificate. And that means its key on its side is happy with my key on my side. And that's a key exchange where they're sort of basically saying, yeah, you might, yeah, you might, cool. But these prime numbers, they're not, they're hard to find with our current logic, like our current approach to finding them. Sure. It's really difficult. Brute forcing takes forever, but we're not dignifying numbers with enough physicality. And when we do, when we go, all right, let's treat numbers. They're not imaginary. They're just really, really small particles. Well, then that gets, they now get included into physics equations. So, well, if a prime number is physical, then it should be bound to the same laws of physics that, you know, physical objects are, whether it's an electron or whether it's a building, it should be the same thing. And so if we crack open our own understanding or give it a chance and say, well, let's just say hypothetically they are physical. What does that look like? And then we start getting thousands and thousands. And remember, the world has 8 billion people in it and they all have access to AI. The only reason people don't do this stuff now is because they don't really know it's a thing. But if you told everyone, hey, there's $1 trillion bounty for anyone that can break factor a semi-prime faster, I promise you this answer comes in a year by the end of the year. The only reason it's not is because people aren't focused on it, to be honest. So, you know, everyone becomes an expert at something overnight, like straight of Hormuz, we all know everything about Iran and when it started and how it's done, whatever it is. But primes will go through their same thing. And there's going to be a big conversation because a lot of it will intersect around AI. AI will want more data. We will want better understanding of energy. We will want more privacy. So we're going to try, but here's the thing. We have privacy and stuff. And I totally get, I'm not against privacy. I'm just against the reality is I don't know. And I'm not the smartest person on the planet. I don't know anything else in nature that's been granted privacy. Now they're being granted privacy by humans, but nature doesn't really go that route. Nature's like, it's my way of a highway always. And that's why we always have second order effects with everything. And so nature, the natural state of keeping secrets is actually not real. Like it's not organic. And so that's why in the world of addiction, so, you know, alcohol, whatever it is, whatever your poison is, they have a thing that is saying that says secrets make us sick. And that means whenever the secret is, it's going to manifest inside and it starts creating all these third party accidental effects just from the manifest that stage from the keeping it so people that you know they might crash their car drunk or something like they'll tiger woods yeah crash car drunk but he's like oh were you drinking no no no it's like this the secrets are creating this sickness from you and like in addiction a lot of the time is because people keep their addiction from others and so they go well secrets make you sick in that world because you're not sharing the most authentic and you're trying to control things too much So when I look at the world, like the earth, I think there has to be a pretty big enlightenment moment. But I think right now, the layers of earth, like as in humanity, I don't think they're going to hold very long. Like this shadow elite with elites, with plebs, with homeless people, like that structure just doesn't work. And I don't think it's going to work for very long. and here we go. Like, so you see people breaking into like Epstein Island, right? Like these people are like, no, I need to know everything. That desire, that's not organic need. That's their dopamine center, like a zombie with bloodlust almost. They are that frothing over it. That's going to happen with everything. And so the mankind will not tolerate a secret, I don't think, especially after if we like kind of replay history, at least like the hardships, I think it's going to become more of a, we're all one and we all, like many hands make light work all on the same team perspective instead of a kill or be killed perspective. And now to get to that level of you're okay and I'm okay and we're both okay as one, that's where haves and have nots can't exist anymore. So we have to get to that level of sort of peace and okayness with each other we have to have it so that you can't be envious of something i have and vice versa so if you have more than i have or if i have more than you have and that can mean what i'm sort of circling on is energy so we can't control it i mean that that's the flow everything comes back from energy if you have lots of it you have none of it do you have water do you have resources so no we've got no water in the middle of africa well Fuck, everything's going to be expert mode. Great example, water in the Middle East, the deserts. So, Oman or Kuwait, 740% of their annual water production is used. So, they use seven point, imagine getting paid 100 grand a year and spending 750 grand, even better. So, Dubai, they get paid 100 grand a year water budget, right? I think theirs is like 46, so 46 times. so 4,600%. So that's like me spending $4.6 million a year when I get paid $100,000 a year. Now, naturally, that is fighting. We're fighting the natural order very much, trying to put water in the desert. Like now that's not a bad thing. It's great. We're expanding, da-da-da. But sooner or later, we'll realize that fighting the natural order to try and be the masters of our own destiny is probably a shorter story for mankind than it is for how do we all lift each other up and win. And, you know, because right now countries are trying to win. People are trying to, individuals are trying to win. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. Everyone, you buy all your shit from China. Are you going to sit there and say you don't like China? For good, stop buying it then. Let's see how happy you are. No, you wouldn't be. So show some gratitude. Russia, science, medicine and mathematics, unreal. let's like imagine we go like imagine you're in a group project and everyone's got to do all of the parts it's like no who's the who's the history guy okay you're really good at ancient history you're doing the egypt part you you're really good at modern history you're doing world war ii it's like delegate to expertise i mean it sounds like an entire shift from a sort of scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset from everyone everyone but that's everyone has to have their needs met and so the needs started basically food water shelter and now money is unfortunately this artificial need that we've kind of injected into the stack um but the removal of money which is probably where it goes like money is money is only a stopgap solution it's sort of like oh yeah i've got cheese and crackers because the pizzas are running late like you know kind of it's like a here fill up on this and in the meantime because we can't teleport energy around so we needed to make some currency that represented give a shit i mean labor right like hey you put a shovel here's this give a shit so we call that gold or whatever but the biggest threat to bitcoin generally speaking is actually uh apathy so people don't need money anymore why not because everything just works we've got all these autonomous energy systems and blah blah blah and then that ushers in the potential for a new creative renaissance, basically. And a lot of people have talked about this and Bitcoin is Venice and all this beautiful, incredible foresight from these smart cats in the industry. But that's sort of what it does. So now when you and I are not thinking, fuck, did I get that Excel spreadsheet in on time? Shit, is the bus running late? Is that cancelled? Is that my bus or the next bus? And blah, blah, blah. And I've been at work all day. I haven't thought anything about my purpose. I've just been like surviving. Now, if you give everyone back all that time and effort and excitement or zest or enthusiasm, where does it go? And so people probably aren't rushing to build, you know, oh dude, I've got the best thing. What is it? Yeah. You'd come into an office for 40 years and there's no sunlight and there's mad dry air conditioning. It's like, fuck out of here like stupid suggestion but it's like i think that ushers in a new era of almost like we made it through the hardest part possible and everyone gets to have a beautiful life right now it's like bro like we got so lucky being born i'm the luckiest human being i know born in australia there's no bomb flying over my head like running water like two seconds down the road there's a beach there's people people are happy people are nice people are sort of chilled like unreal but like imagine someone who didn't even choose to be here they didn't ask to come oh yeah can i come to earth please they didn't even ask to be and they come out like they're like fuck what the why am i even here i didn't ask to be you know and so it's like i don't know but i think we're going that direction where we're sort of finding a way to meet everyone's needs. But I definitely think there's like, we need to clean up a lot of the governance structure of Earth. Like right now, I don't know what's happening, but watching what happened in the US over the past 6 to 12 months with like all the like punishment from like all these like FBI blacked out notes and redacted notes, it's like what the fuck is even going on? Like clearly you're not working for the people paying the taxes. And it's just like that whole whatever kind of needs to be pulled out before you can kind of have a healthy system. I don't really know how they do that because that's sort of the way that we've been living forever. Maybe that's what Bitcoin is for. Like if we are going to live in a post-money world, like maybe Bitcoin is here to starve the beast and get us to that. So I've got this theory that there's like infinite many universes. like we're all like every decision sort of spawns a new universe and i was i was thinking i was saying to my brother a while ago i was like bro i reckon we're in the universe that invented bitcoin for all the other universes but the caveat is that we made it so every other timeline gets it forever but we won't have it long term and like something like that like we we kind of break it ourselves or something, but everyone else doesn't get the broken version and we kind of, who knows. But I'll tell you what, imagine if we did not have Bitcoin right now. Imagine not having it. It'd be like, I don't know what to do. Like where do you put your money? What do you do? And then basically the strategy is how do you preserve your wealth? Just put it where everyone's money laundering. Literally, if I'm a government and I'm laundering money or whatever, it's like where are you guys putting it? Oh, we put it in the store. Okay, cool. He's going to put it there too. and so that's a bitcoin needs to be the best vehicle for people to launder money so don't just that people park it there and pump money it's not very good from like this is so weird the counterproductive thing is like bitcoin's terrible for money laundering it's like not a like and people like are money laundering bitcoin it's like dude no one just use the bank on the street with their dick out like why the fuck would anyone do that with bitcoin it's the same thing like so anyway who knows but i think um i think there's a lot of excitement on the horizon and yeah we're pretty blessed right now to see and like we haven't even talked about like claude and chat gbt getting better in three years where could they be in three years like just to show you how hot this that gets back to the exponentials though like i have no prediction three years ago oh was that before it could launch rockets to mars you haven't even been to mars dude oh dude last 18 months have been crazy i'm gonna be like tell me everything I'm Kane like it's almost like that and now that's that's the problem for entrepreneurs now is they have to choose choose their destiny almost so you want to build a company you got to choose correctly like very difficult so you're in a great position where you're like you know hosting a podcast it's like you're the personality you are the talent like you and your likeness is the talent but it's like dude if i'm a front-end engineer doing html css javascript it's like i don't know where i'm going from there like and i don't know what starts thinking about doing then like but what stops someone just uh creating ai me taking all the transcripts to all my context and putting that into some like ai podcast like that that is a thing there's no way my job's safe either well no no and that so this is a this is actually really interesting because one of the person that that's had the most of that done to them is Alan Watts. So Alan Watts, the philosopher. So he's brilliant, the most brilliant speaker I've ever heard in my entire life. Like there's never an ounce of fat on any of his sentences. Anyway, but what people do now is in the same way they do it to like Joe Rogan, where they'll take Alan Watts's speeches and they'll go, chat, JPG, write something that sounds like it was written by Alan Watts. And then people speak and they'll put a bunch of like, you know, rivers and creeks overlaid over the sounds. And so now you don't know what's real and what's not real. And so, but this is what happens, right? So we're talking about this merging between you and me, but we're becoming one. Like, so we're becoming one. If you're holding on, the last thing you have is your likeness. It's not your voice. Your voice, that was deepfaked three years ago. Your body now is deepfaked now as well. But your likeness, like write it like Danny. here's a hundred podcasts he's done, write it like he would write it. You can see in like script writing now with people on TV shows, a lot of script writing has to accommodate for people. Like this is another thing, right? So the data set of AI is going to be trained on these changes and adaptations that we've had to AI. So the script, for example, in Netflix shows, they have a new script writing sort of strategy because so much of the audience can't follow old script writing styles because there's too much context because no one's watching so people like they're looking up every 20 seconds but they're not following so that's why you find these scripts that sound so ridiculous but it's like they say the same thing eight times i'm glad i met you on the battleship hey great and the battleship we just got to yeah we're about to take off awesome i'm glad we met on the battleship let's go into battle great this is the perfect battleship for it it's so depressing they have to make the the scripts like scrollable meaning you can be scrolling your phone while you watch it and still follow the story and they make it like they have key moments that are memeable yeah like these are things that actually go into production now it's so depressing 100 and so that in itself is shaping and creating the possibility of what that art format can actually deliver and then it's making the ai stupider because it's like you mean to tell me you guys are so dumb you can't listen for 30 seconds nope it's down to five seconds next year it's going to be down to one second. And like, that's actually a thing, by the way. We're all slowly getting autism. But 100% and that kills me. Like it's the commoditization of all mass media, like music, film, like any form of art. Yep. And I also don't think it's real because like when you see, what's the guy called who did Oppenheimer? I've forgotten his name. Oh yeah, Christopher Nolan. Yeah, Christopher Nolan. He's coming out with a new film, all shot on like IMAX film. Yeah. Like these are things that people actually want, like real, real stories. Because people want to escape. It's escapism. A hundred percent. And it's, that's the art form. The art form isn't, oh, you know, cinema is art. Music is art. Now, the problem is when you, when you get things that people like and you get a system that tries to duplicate that, you basically get bastardization. So it's like, now if you're a movie studio, so let's say you've got this art cinema. Now, times are getting harder. In the real world, outside of cinema, times are getting harder. So what does a movie studio exec say? Hey, do we make that new original picture or... Avengers 8. Well, we can guarantee a good quarter if we make Marvel Super Heroes 7. Oh, fuck it. But do you think people talk? We've already done all the data. We'll lose 80% of the fan base, but this quarter we'll actually double our revenue. Great, done. And that's why that gets done. But ask any actor on earth who they want to be in a movie for. They will all tell you first up one name, Christopher Nolan. You know why? Because he's not the money grab anymore. He is the talent where people are like, whatever he does, it's going to be unreal. So it's what used to be. You get that same feeling of like they are good at their craft. The same way we used to look at actors and be like, whoa, they're good. It's like that's all just cookie cutter popcorn shit. in the same way music's the same because these guys they're capital like they're trying to make money so they're like they're not trying to add to the art industry they're just trying to make money and so they're like well yeah this makes more money now christopher nolan has earned his stripes where basically he calls the shots now he's got the dramatically good track record that says it's my way or the highway thank you and they go yeah but also like when he does those films the actors take like 20 of their normal paycheck to do it as opposed to doing like an avengers film because they want to be a part of it. They are like, this guy, that is the LeBron James, the Michael Jordan, that's like playing, you know, on the winning team because everything else is boring to them. There's no challenge in being Wolverine for the sixth time and getting that $240 million paycheck and going to the same bar and being on the same tour. Oh, yeah, yeah, he had Grey Claws this time. Wow. Like, they don't feel part of like the best of the best. Now, if you're in a Christopher Nolan movie, you made it. And that's why actors now, there is no acting. It's like The Rock is not an actor. The Rock is a wrestling star who's enthusiastic about entertainment, sure. But he's not an actor. And like Russell Crowe, he's an actor. Like The Rock, not an actor. And they realize that it's actually quite easy to bridge the gap between fame and acting. And it's just sort of an extended revenue stream for the famous person singing or acting, right? I don't think you watched The Smashing Machine. The Rock was an actor in that. Oh, The Smashing Machine I haven't seen. So I gave The Rock, he was on Fortnite recently. And I was at the shits because I was like, fucking The Rock. He's like, look, cool. I love him in a vibe, but he's like super like whores himself out for everything. One of the frustrating things about that is the team I chose in Fortnite, The Rock is on the other team. This sounds stupid, but The Rock in all his contracts has a The Rock can't lose clause. so in all this stuff the rock is not allowed to lose oh you see a photo the rock fell off a cliff in jumanji 7 yeah but at the bottom of the cliff he was there and he built a hut and he was safe and he killed all the villagers or something i don't know but that's a funny thing to have baked in because they're again they're not even about entertainment they're about brand preservation isn't that wild to think it's like i just love that you're like trying to solve novel math problems and playing fortnight they're your two hobbies the best dude the best you gotta have the mad disconnect you gotta be 100 in something and then absolutely not in it yeah nah but nothing solved yet just still still stupid um michael this has been fucking awesome i love talking to you i i feel like uh i don't know which way's up but i had a good time well dude text me if there's anything you hear and you're like oh actually that made sense i'll ask him about that again but always down and i really appreciate it and congrats on a bunch of awesome episodes by the way i've been like boring my ears out to you for the past like i don't know month listening to some bangers so thanks it's awesome i love it thank you man and we we need to do this more regularly i'm going to come down to sydney soon and we should do it again awesome dude i've got a spare room you can crash at mine there you go done we can go and have dinner um thank you man um i will speak to you soon this has been so much fun awesome thanks so much mate