Hardy: Life, Fatherhood, and Figuring It Out as You Go

Take us back to that day if you would. I just remember the hardest force I've ever felt in my life. Boom! I just saw him was dead. Bones poking out of him, it was horrible. How do you survive that? It screwed me up. I got to a point where I hated touring. I respect the grind as much as I respect break, but the break is hard to do, especially when you've got momentum. Does my mental health matter more than creating generational wealth? When it comes to legacy relationships, outweigh a trust all day, every day, bar none. But man, what better of a platform than to be able to stand in front of thousands of people and be like, if y'all are dealing with this, like, hey, I suffer from crap like this every single day. It all starts with the courage to share your story with another human being. I don't know if I've ever told this story, I feel alive. Some cowboy shit, dude. We've been taught everything except how to be human. I'm Miles Adcox, and this podcast turns a raw experience into practical wisdom. So if you're ready to stop performing your life and start participating in it, you're in the right place. This is human school. If you've turned on country radio in the last five years, you've likely heard today's guests through the speakers. Michael Hardy grew up a small town boy from Philadelphia, Mississippi, and is now one of the most respected people on Music Row. While songwriting will always be his foundation, Hardy has grown into an artist in his own right. He's known for marrying his love of rock and roll with the honest storytelling country music is known for. His words are beyond Morgan Wall and Florida Georgia line Ella Langley and Blake Shelton's biggest hits, pinning 18 number ones. That's crazy. His craft is a rare gift, but it's the way he's handled the weight of all of it that really stands out to me. Through it all, he's stayed human enough to never forget where he came from and even admit when he struggles to. He's become a rare voice and advocate of transparency in the industry that usually demands a mask, proving that you can be one of the loudest guys in the room while still being the most vulnerable. He's a hard worker, a husband, a father, to a baby girl, a hell of a songwriter and continues to set the example of how to chase big dreams and stay true to yourself. I'm so excited to learn more about the human behind the songs. Please welcome the wildly successful singer songwriter and just a heck of a dude, my buddy Michael Hardy. Damn, Dave, that's awesome, man. That's really good. That's incredible. That's the best intro I've ever had. A hot take. That's good. Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you. Well, it's one of those things that you've got such a cool bio, and I know I could have gone through that a lot more, but I just think there's more to you. It's one of my favorite things about you that I'm excited to get into today is, since I've known you, you just strike me as a guy that kind of stands on congruence and tries to maintain integrity with what you do. You figured out how to, I think, navigate this industry, but doesn't seem like you've lost who you are. If you do, you chase it back. I'm hiding it well. Chase it back pretty quick. But how are you showing up this morning, man? What have you been up to? I'm good, man. Just got back from my hometown yesterday, actually. I went down there for a couple of days to see a little bit of family and check on some hunting land and stuff like that. And yeah, just came back to whining, crying one-year-old baby, and back to real life. So it's good. Getting you to sleep. We are. We really are. She sleeps, I think, from the time she was two months old. She slept through the night. Everybody jokes that our next one is going to be like a hellion, because she up to this point has been a really, really great baby. I mean, she's been 12 hours a night for six months since her last little sleep regression or whatever. Y'all hit the jackpot there. Did y'all do sleep? We're lucky. Do you sleep train? We did. Did you? Yes. Every penny. Did you have to make kind of guide your coach you through it? Yeah, we had a girl come for a week and do an intensive. So at 8 p.m., we turned her over and she was like, turn your phones off. Don't listen to the, you know, the Nannett app is what everybody has now. And that's the thing. Yeah. She's like, turn it off. I got it. And I mean, it was like, he reminded me of like, Caesar Malone with the dog. You know, what was that show? Oh, what was Caesar's show? I remember reading his book when it first came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, all I remember about him is it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he's, when he cracks it, I still do that. Like sometimes when I kid. Well, she was doing that to our kid for a week solid. And then after that. Really? That was what she used. No kidding. No, I don't know. But, um, yeah, after that, she slept to the night and, and that got us on like a, more importantly, like a bed time schedule because you know, we didn't know what we were, we were just like, you know, it's 10 p.m. She must be tired. And the girl's like, no, 7.30, 8 p.m. Put her in there, you know, let her go. So, um, yeah, she's been sleeping through the night. It's been awesome. I hate to be one of the, because I'm just a few years ahead of you in the dad department. And I never wanted to be one of those dads that was just given advice to people because I remember when everybody told me what to expect, I wanted to hear. Oh, well, yeah. I mean, what to expect is like, you can't, but I'll take any advice you got. Well, I just, this is just from my mistake or our mistake, but, um, ours are six and eight now. And we did the same thing. We had somebody come in and kind of do a little coaching thing for us on how to do it. We saw the value in it. I, you know, I'm a research nerd, so I got into the data and the science. And there's, there's a little, there's a crowd that contrasted, but for the most part, it's pretty sound. It's a good way to do it. And, um, I'm sure we might kick up a debate with people that hear this, but I, uh, we did it until the first sleep regression. And then you trained. Yeah, we trained. Okay. And then we had a sleep regression and then we, we didn't follow through anymore. And buddy, I'm telling you, I don't feel like I've slept the day of yours. They, it really, so those that can stay, if you can stay with it, I would encourage you to stay with it. Obviously it's got to work for y'all, but I wish we just stayed with it and it's okay. It's adaptable, but we, we're just now at this age trying to repeat some of what we could have said as a foundation at one and two years old. Yeah. Because we kind of just like, you know, got the best of. Yeah. I mean, you know, the thing, the main thing is that we are very fortunate that we, um, we can afford to like, because it's really expensive and, but we can have somebody just do it for us. And that's like, we're just extremely lucky for that. But yeah, so I mean, thankfully we've, we just sort of, we were just able to be like, can you please help us? Help us. So not, not just the training, but the execution. And it was literally five days. And I swear, I mean, I don't know what went on in that room. I'm sure that girl, I mean, she is a saint because I'm sure, because I mean, Rosie was waking up all throughout the night and just, you know, we're kind of, we, we got to a point where we let her sleep in our bed kind of in the wee hours of the morning until like the regular morning. And I think Cali and I both were just like, we can't, we're not going to be, we can't do this. We're not going to start our first kids not going to sleep in the bed with us every night just as though, you know, stop crying. So we did it. Isn't it a, an interesting world that I, you don't know anything about until you get there, but there's a whole new set of professions. I say new, they've been around forever, I'm sure, in different variations, but it was new to me to learn about doulas and sleep trainers and nannies and all that. Especially for a man. Yeah. Yeah. And you're right. It is a privileged thing to be able to have access to some of those things because I know a lot of people don't, but I want to say to all the, I'll miss some of the titles, but doulas, sleep trainers, nannies in the world, I think you are doing God's work. I mean, seriously, it's amazing what I've seen the health and happiness they can bring to a home just by bringing experience to a very unknown situation. Cause like, I don't, I don't know how dating has been for you, but it's been incredible for me every turn, every year, every minute, I'm learning something new, not just about them, but about myself. I thought I knew me because I've been studying humans forever and myself forever. And I was like, I didn't know a damn thing until I had a baby. And now I got two little mirrors staring at me every day, but those that, that know how to, that have studied and spent their lives and the development of kids at a crucial age, I don't think you get near enough credit. You do that behind the scene, I think angelic work. So from one dad reminiscing back to the days that you're in, I'm saying thank you to all the people out there that help us get things like that. Yeah, no doubt. Tell me about dad and let's start there. What's that? What did it turn your world upside down? It, it did, but you know, I, I felt like I spent the first, the, the pregnant nine months like mentally over preparing. Um, just because I wanted, I want to be a good parents and, and husband, you know, like with a kid, husband, husband of all, of all, you know, across the spectrum, but I just wanted to be there for my wife and be there for my, my kid. So I really, really over prepared, um, mentally. And, uh, I think that helped me. I mean, it definitely rocked my world, but it's, there are so many parts of it that are like more than what I expected. And there's so many that were like, again, we have like, we had like a perfect child for like an entire year, but, uh, there was a lot that I was like, man, this is, we can, this is doable. You know, it's not as crazy. Thankfully my life, my career kind of revolves around sleep deprivation. And, and, uh, so, you know, uh, that part was fine. Like taking night shifts and stuff. I was like, I got this, you know, um, and you're applying like touring prepped you for that. Right. Just living on a bus, especially the early, you know, especially when you're like the band days, the band days, where you're leaving a venue after you play and driving four hours down the road and then getting up at six a.m. to drive the other four and stuff like that. I'm, that's kind of the, that's a cake wall compared to just kind of sitting in a recliner with a baby watching the office or something. You know, right. Right. Um, so that part was really easy, but, um, I tend to be a not very patient person. I really, uh, I try to work on that. Ironically, patience with people is where I struggle the most. Hmm. Um, I can be, I can, I can fish, I can do all the things for hours and hours and hours and hours. But anyway, so that, that has been the hardest part for me. There's been moments where, uh, the, the very few, but the moment like the fits or whatever that she's kind of had in the past year that I've had to like pass her off and walk away for a second and just take a breather. There's just a, it's a, it's a patience thing for me. And, and I'm, so that's my biggest thing that I have worked on a ton in this past year. But now, you know, I mean, those first few months when, uh, when there were moments where I was like, this is really hard. And of course, so was my wife, but she's a saint also. And she's, women and mothers are just born with like an infinite amount of patience. I swear. Isn't it? It's crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. But, um, that's the one thing that I've worked on the most for sure. And now, you know, she can be, she can be crying in the back seat and Callie and I are just having a full ball in conversation like this and, you know, it gets, it gets better. But, um, that's the only, that's the only thing. Everything else has been wonderful. And like now it's so weird to like make a face at her or make a noise and she does it back and she's walking now and she'll point, you know, when you go in the room and say who you are. And it's, it's, it's getting to where we're like, it's more than just one line of communication. You know, it's, it's back. There's some back and forth and dude, that's, I know it only gets better and better from there, but I just, I'm a beam when I think about it. Cause it's just to have your kid know who you are. It's like the first six months it's like, uh, a musician in town, Alex told me, uh, he was like, man, do not feel weird if for the first six months you're just sort of keeping this like sack of potatoes alive. And, uh, and you know, he was kind of right. And that was like really the best advice that I got because, uh, he was like, there will be a moment where she starts to look at you and know who you are and like smile. And then she'll start saying dad, dad, or pointing at you or something. And, and he's like, man, that's like when he, for him personally, he was like, that's when my like the real just love, and that's how I felt too. I mean, I loved her from the moment she was here, but there's this, it's different now, man. When they know who you are and you can kind of tell they like need you and depend on you. And when they reach for you and it's, it's the best thing in the world. I had a, um, I had a, but you talk about the responsibility of it. And, and that was where I was going to get next was just how does it change your worldview or your perception. And I think you were starting to talk about the underpinnings of that because it is the ultimate mirror moment. And I, I'm, I'm giddy excited when I talk to people who are this excited about the stage you're in because I'm in a stage and I don't know what'll come next. You know, a lot of, most of the time people give you warning signs or like, I'll wait till they're teenagers. It's going to be hell on wheels. But for the most part, when they, when you can start having conversations, which is where I am, everything gets magnified. It's like I've been living my whole life in black and white and now I see everything in color and every day I'm just like, I'm more and more live. I thought, I thought I had a good relationship. And I've chased it off and on over the years from discarding it to rebuilding it with my faith. But I've never felt closer to God than looking through the, looking at the world through the eyes of my kids. I mean, it is incredibly special. And you talked about the patients thing. My, I'm glad I had an opportunity to meet my wife's grandfather before he passed both his grandmother and grandfather have now passed, but I met him and I want to say he was pushing 90 when he passed. But I got to know him for about three years and the year before he died, I think he had like a 70 year run, 70 years of marriage or something crazy. And I just asked him at a Christmas party. He, he and I were both sitting over in the corner. He was kind of a man of a few words and I leaned over and I said, I said, 70 years, man, what's, you know, here I am a few in, I was a man get 70 years of marriage. I would say it's a pretty good success. And he sat there and contemplated for a minute and he looked back at me and he said two words, patience and tolerance. And at first I laughed because I thought, but then I thought, oh, he's right. He's like, you thought he was kind of making a joke. I thought he was making a little bit of a joke. He's got a lot of patience. Like I got to put up with this. Yeah. Yeah. And that part was not wrong. But now that I'm five years from that advice, I was like, he was spot on. He wasn't just talking about the marriage. He was also talking about everything that comes with it. The kids. And I remember a buddy told me when I, in rehab 20 something years ago when I was there. And I think it came out of a movie called 28 days that Sandra Bullock was in. Have you ever seen that movie? I feel like I have with my wife and I've forgotten about it. It's an old movie that kind of, it's a fun playful kind of poke fun at the rehab process. And she was patient rehab. Yes. I'd seen it in years. You'd think me being a rehab guy would watch that again, but I hadn't seen it in years. But I remember, I think, I think the origin of it came from here, but I got it out of my own rehab experience, which was I was contemplating where I should be with this girl I was interested in back home, you know, two weeks and trying to figure out my life story, which would just been shattered. And I was already making these future plans as I tend to do. I was like, well, when I get out, I could do this, this and this. And he said, all right, let's slow it down a little bit. He said, first things first. He said, when you get out of here, get a plan. You can keep that plan alive for a year. He said, you can think about getting a girlfriend. And he said, after that year, if you get a girlfriend, if two years later, if she's, if you are both still alive and you're doing good, five years from then, you can have your first baby. And I was like, wow, a lot of confidence. And you got him. Oh boy. But, but it is, it is one of those. I'll ask you, for me, I guess, my worldview, bringing kids into the world, it just illuminated everything. And, and what I get to do now is be a beginner every day, which I really like to do. I'm more of a student of life. That's one of the reasons I did this. Yeah. So I think I get to talk to a lot of subject matter experts in my space and psychology. And I crisscross with your space all the time. So a lot of brilliant creatives too. And I get to kind of cherry pick and learn from people who've hacked parts of life to where they're optimizing their relationships or, you know, chasing the right things fulfillment and meaning. And then I get to distill those and kind of rip them off and try to integrate them into my own life. But often some of those conversations, unfortunately, some of the deepest and most richest conversations are reserved for the basement of a church where they're having a recovery meeting or a counseling session or, or I'm sure for you over the years, the back of a bus somewhere. And I wanted to highlight some of them and not make it a therapy thing, but just everyday conversations where we learn from each other, like what's working for you, what's working for me. And if anything, what continues to happen to me is I get to wake up and learn and learn every day about how to screw up as a dad and how to repair that. And that's carried over into my life. I've become a better leader. I've become a better husband. I think I'm becoming a better friend. What I do as an advisor and a mentor to a lot of people in your world and in mind, I become better at that all through becoming a dad. And I just wonder if you've put thought into how becoming a dad so far has enriched your life in other ways. That's a great question. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I've thought about it like that. It's definitely one thing for sure is it's made me just conscious of the relationship I have with my parents. And it's just, I'll just say that I'm aware of that now. Like I'm just aware a little bit more of maybe even my parents' perspective. I'm just aware of, yeah, I'll leave it at that for now. But that's the biggest thing right now. It's definitely, it's opened my eyes to my parents, just my relationship with my parents in general. Would you say it enhanced it, improved it, or just opened the relationship up in some kind of way? I don't think that she's old enough. Quite, I don't think she's quite old enough to say that it's improved it yet. I don't know why, but there's like, it's like when I started remembering things, when I was like three or four years old, I feel like that will kind of be a time where I'm like, okay, Rosie is going to remember things that I'm like doing and the way I just, whatever it is. I feel like that'll be a time where, I don't know, maybe I'll think about that more. But it just, right now, I'm only like, it's funny. It's like before I had kids, I never really, I never had a perspective from a father of any kind. So, yeah, I don't know. I'm just, I'm only just like aware of it for whatever reason. And also, I was a sick kid for my first year. So, it definitely makes me, I definitely thought a lot about how lucky Cali and I are compared to my parents because I was in and out of the hospital a lot, like before I was a year old. Wow. And kind of had some just pretty gnarly stuff. So, yeah, just all that. It's been, it's that's a lot of that kind of stuff has sort of been coagulating or floating around in my head. But nothing too, nothing too deep yet, to be honest with you. But yeah, I don't know. I don't think that is pretty deep. I think it's kind of cool that it does reverse engineer your relationship. Because again, what could it do other than shift your perception of the world and reverse engineer it back towards your parents? Because I would say my relationship with my parents at my age and their age is the best it's ever been. And I'm halfway through life at this point. I think they're doing their best parenting they've ever done. And I never thought I'd need it like I need it now. And it's subtle. It's quiet. It's just, it's just an energy that they hold at this point. But I didn't know that about that first year of your life. What were you up against health wise? I had a hernia, which is fairly normal. But then I had surgery and I got a staff infection that as far as I know, it was really, really bad. Those are gnarly in general. I can't imagine for like one year older under one. So yeah, I just it was they found my hernia when I was, I want to say either two weeks or two months. I know the number was two. I could remember which one. And then got the surgery and then it was like a week later or something just sort of breaking out or something. Anyway, so I spent weeks in the hospital the second time after the surgery. The surgery itself was like somewhat minor. I mean, you know, it was like stitching a net to the inside of my guts kind of thing to keep my, you know, but it was so small and it really wasn't that big of a deal. But yeah, the staff infection apparently was really bad. I don't obviously don't remember any of it, but that that's funny. We when I went to on site and I did my intensive, I did, you know, can I say my therapist's name on here? Of course. Yeah. So Laura was my she was my she worked with me. She was awesome. And we did a lot of really heavy like EMDR stuff. And man, this was it. This was like crazy. But I so she so I went because of trauma from the bus accident. And so we're going through all this stuff and somehow through like EMDR, we led to she I went back to like when I was an infant kid and I was like sick or I had this stuff going on. And I just like started like weeping. It was it was so crazy because I like that's a part of me that I that's the only part of me through that session that I don't remember. And it affected me the most. Wow. And I like I just I could feel it like I had held I don't know how but like I had held on to that. And I just felt so bad for myself. But in the best way, like I didn't feel sorry for myself, but I had like I had empathy for that infant, you know, version of me that was afraid and and even at that age probably develop some sort of something, you know, mentally, just from going through something like that early on. But man, I just remember how powerful it was because we would do this thing where like through EMDR, it's like now getting OK. Now go back to this 12 year old version of yourself and I go back to this thing that you didn't like, you know, as five years old. OK, now go back to like your infant self and you basically extract them out of the situation and bring them to like a safe space. And it kind of helps you process. I know you know all about this, but for the people listening. But man, yeah, for some reason, man, when she was like if you could just pull that kid out of the hospital bed or the baby. And and and bring him with you. And I just lost it. It's crazy. It's crazy how much more empathy I felt for that version of me than any other any of the ones that I have actual vivid memories of. It screwed me up. And it was in the best way. I just I couldn't believe it. It was cool. I'm glad you shared that. And I'm glad you shared your description of kind of what I think is a fascinating, well researched therapeutic modality. MDR, you guys have heard us talk about it on here before and we'll put some footnotes and describe what it is and give you some resources. Mdry, I think is a website where you can read about it, understand the science behind it. And there's a lot of therapists and counselors that are trained in it now. It's one of the more evidence based tools we have for trauma therapy. And I say trauma therapy. A lot of a lot of people be like you might not be able to relate with the idea of trauma. But even if you have just anxiety, often that can be rooted in and stacked or compound stress, which can be called psychological trauma. And I tell you, once you start learning about that stuff and how it codes in your brain, it's fascinating because you're describing what we call preverbal trauma. And often, well, here's an example. And that's one of the one of the more effective ways to walk people back in their timeline. Some of you might be hearing this and be like, there's no way I'm going to turn over all those old rocks if you're kind of sticking. And let me hear you. Let me say this upfront. It's that's not all trauma counseling or on sites all about. So it doesn't have to be on site wherever you might go unpack your story. And I will get into that a little bit. I'm glad you brought it up so quickly. So I think it'd be important to tell. I think people be encouraged by today that it's it's not really about going and turn over ever rock. It's not really about going and hyper focus and fixating on the past. It's just discovering themes and moments that locked something into our subconscious that continues to be a catalyst to activate our nervous system today. I bring anxiety into our lives or stress or depression or however it shows up. And something cool. I really learned this, it cemented in for me. And there's even pre genetic conditions to trauma to like, like we now know that what happens with our ancestors. Yeah, I've heard that. Like potato famine, people like people that come from crazy famines and stuff. Isn't that wild? Crazy sucks. Sucks kind of, you know, it's like, I can't really help it. But it's yeah, that's that's wild. It also makes you want to kind of get to know your, you know, do one of those online deals. What happened? What did they go through? Figure out where your ancestors came from? Where'd they go? What in and help piece together and make sense of your own story? And it will also really get your attention about the way you're navigating or the way I'm navigating life now. Because I thought this is not just me and my kids era. This is their kids era, their kids era, their kids era, depending on how I navigate this stuff. And then to me, that's what makes chasing and reconciling the parts of our story and trying to live a pretty integrated life is wildly important because it has 100 years behind you and 100 years in front of you impact, which is wild. But one of the things that submit this, see, that's what I'm trying to say. I'm very southern as you guys know, but cemented, cemented. I got you, dude. All right, cool. That scratched that scene, put an S on it to say that, right? Um, is we, I've done quite a bit of work with combat vets over the years. And before Charlie Daniels died, he was super kind to fund a combat veterans program out at onsite that we did for several years. And his manager, David, um, it's also a veteran, uh, and a great guy. And he was a big advocate for that program. But we, I remember the first one we did, we brought together 60 combat veterans and, uh, we were taking them through. We're taking them through. We built a program, curated a program, some of the top trauma practitioners in the country, brought them all together and we had six days with them. And I think even though I knew quite a bit about trauma then I was still pretty green, but I knew quite a bit. Uh, I assume that we'd be working a lot on combat. A lot of these guys were in Iraq and Afghanistan. We had some that were in Vietnam. And what fascinated me was that we very rarely touched the combat trauma. It was always preexisting trauma. That was the doorway to alleviate their pain. And often we didn't even have to talk about the combat trauma. In that wild. And so it was what happened prior to them getting into combat, uh, that was the predetermining factor to how they would deal with trauma in combat. And it really stuck with me because you could take two different guys that were in the same Foxhole and let's say Foxhole was an old term. Let's say they were in the same Humvee that got blown up. And one of them takes that experience, you know, moves on into life and copes with it. Okay, that's fine. The other one develops a severe PTSD. You know, how do you explain that? Well, there's only one way you got to look what happened prior to that. Did this one, and usually you always, you can point to this one had some adverse, uh, circumstance or experience. I like yours, preverbal or they miss some type of secure attachment in their early developmental years. Because I make up what was happening for you as a, as a baby then is it really over activated your stress response. Preverbally, because you know what to do with that. You were just in pain, I would imagine. Parents couldn't do anything other than try to love you through it. And then all these years later, um, just by creating some bilateral stimulation and kind of waking up certain parts of your brain where that was coded, it provokes emotion. It's just wild to think about. It's funny that you, uh, talk about the, the Humby thing, the, uh, which I figured that we would talk about this anyway, but the, uh, my photographer content guy, Tanner, was the other, um, I was with him during the bus accident. And the way that he handled it afterwards versus how I did are completely different. Um, his more positive than mine. Uh, he just, he kind of hit a moment of like, well, I pretty much experienced death without dying. So like, you know, and he, he's, he's, he's just kind of live it now. You know what I mean? He's, he's got a new thirst for life. And I kind of just went into a hole for a couple of years. So it's interesting to see the perspective on two people that, you know, how they process the same thing. Well, and, and, and I want, I want to get into that story. We should now, since we're already here. I thought, yeah, I thought we might talk about it a little later because I think it's pretty important for people to hear. And you've told me the story a little bit. Tanner got hurt pretty bad physically, didn't he? Like really, didn't he break a lot of stuff? Yeah, his neck, uh, he brought, well, he had a, um, he had a, uh, compound fracture in his foot and, uh, broke his back and ribs. He broke, he broke, he broke his whole body. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much except for, except for his like, his big bones in his legs. That's the only thing he didn't break. Y'all are all pinballs in there. Just bouncing. Yeah. But if I, I know you've told the story probably more than, I don't, hopefully not more than you want to, but I'd love for our people to hear it just for context, just if you could take us back to that day. And I, I've gotten so much more perspective because when you and I got connected around this particular thing, we'd overlapped in some social circles prior to, and I heard that story, it was years since I had really been on a, spent time on a bus. I mean, I'm always on and off buses because of my work, but, but the last two years I was actively touring again and I'd not done that in a long time. And so I had those experiences of actually living, all spending hours and hours and hours on a bus. And I thought about you several times because it was not one time on that metal box that I was ever buckled up, sleeping, sitting anywhere. And you don't think about it until you know about somebody that's gone through the, I said, well, man, if this thing turned over, how do you survive that? Yeah. But take us back to that day if you would. Yeah. We played in Bristol, Tennessee, country thunder, Bristol, Tennessee. Morgan was headlining. I was direct support. I would always do a song with Morgan during his set. So the second that, second I got off stage, I got back on my bus and I, and we were like, let's get to Nashville so that we can kind of get back at a decent hour and sleep in our own bed tonight. We were, so at the time, my old tour manager, he immediately went to sleep. His tour manager did a good one, does the only smart ones. Yeah. He immediately goes to bed. Ricky is driving me and Tanner sitting in the front lounge listening to music hanging out, whatever. And so we, so Ricky, my bus driver, we're about 20 miles outside of town and he pulls over, which was very, really weird. Tanner and I had been drinking. We're not, we're not, you know, blackout, but we had been drinking. So we're not really thinking about it that way. But he gets up, walks to the bathroom, stays in the bathroom for like three or four minutes, which is like a long time for a bus driver to just pull over and, you know. Did he get off the interstate or? He pulled, he did. He pulled off on like an exit, like a really empty exit and we kind of sat on like the exit ramp. And he had his Bluetooth in his ear, which he always did. And eventually Tanner and I were kind of like, he's been in the bathroom a long time. Comes out and said, Ricky, you good? He didn't say a word. Sits back in the driver's seat, starts going. And I put my head up there. He's like, you good? And he just said, yeah. And I was, and I turned around and I was like, I guess he's good. So probably two or three minutes later, Morgan FaceTimed, me, me or Tanner won. Just to say, hey, or, you know, we were just late night, just hanging out talking. And sure enough, we hit the rumble strips with the right side of the bus. And then we hit him with the left side of the bus. And Tanner, while Morgan was on actually on FaceTimed for this whole thing, he witnessed the entire thing. He thought it was a prank. And I mean, it was just after that, I mean, it was like, we're wrecking. There's, you know, something's going on. Did you feel, I mean, I guess you heard the audible sound of the rumble strips, but did that had to feel, it had to be a big swerve. Yeah, it was like, I don't really, I mean, it's all kind of still blurry, but like, I just, the actual wrecking part was, I can't remember if he jerked back or whatever, but I just remember there was like, when I knew something really bad was happening is when the, it was shaking really bad. And then whatever happened, we flipped. And I just remember Tanner and I both, it was like, the hardest force I've ever felt in my life. It was just like, there's nothing I could have held on to. You know what I mean? Like the second it was going. No time and you wouldn't be able to. No, I mean, he and I just boom, and we both were immediately knocked unconscious. And then, and then it rolled. Did you know if it was like hitting the ceiling of the bus or where you got knocked unconscious? I guess you would. It was, it was against the, so we're sitting on this side. This side, there's a big window. It had to have been that because I had glass like, like not even, it didn't even like cut my head. It was like imprinted into my head. If that makes sense. Like I knew that's where I hit my head. You nailed the side of it. Uh-huh. And so we flipped over. We didn't do three full turns, but it like flipped on its side, flipped on the top, and then flipped on the other side. And then we kind of slid a long way. And to this day, I don't know how long we were knocked out for, but I was, I woke up, I was the first one to wake up. Noah, my tour manager, he had to have been knocked out because I didn't hear him. And he, he ended up not really being injured. So like he had to have been, uh, or at least I don't, I don't even know, unless he's a really hard sleeper. But um, I woke up and I just, I'd never been in shock before. And I was just immediately, uh, I, my, I just was like, I'm dreaming. This is not real. Like this is not, there's no way I was just in a bus accident. Like there's just no way. And, uh, but I mean, yeah, that was my main thought the whole time, but I, but I still was just like, I've got to do something. Tanner's right here. He, to me, I was like, he's dead. I mean, he was just, he was completely out, bones poking out of him. He was just, it was hard. It was horrible. You saw, you saw the bones. Yeah. Well, he had a big one in his foot, like this long, just sticking out of his foot. His, I could, his, I could, I mean, I could just look at him and tell he was white as a ghost. I thought he was, I thought he was dead. I mean, I just assumed he was dead. I crawled through the front. Ricky was laying in the, whatever there was the floor. Same deal. I'd bled all over him, but he, his foot was moving a little bit. Anyway, so I run. So we, this was like around, it was like inside of Lebanon, but in between like Lebanon and Mount Juliet, it was like Mount Juliet area. Yeah. We're almost home. Yeah. Super close. And we had, we were down a pretty significant hill. So I run up to the hill. Of course I have an all black hoodie on that has one little white circle in the middle of the hoodie. So I'm, it's 345, four in the morning. So I'm like in the middle of the interstate, like waving this black hoodie. We're so far down the hill that nobody driving by can see it. So I just, I was like, I don't know what to do. Like I literally have no idea what to do. And on top of that, I knew I was bleeding, but I didn't know. I was, I was just afraid. I knew I had hit my head really hard. So I was just kind of like, I was freaking out because I'm like, am I going to, you know, am I going to bleed out? Am I going to pass out? And then we're all going to be stuck down here for hours or we're all going to die. Like I didn't, I had no idea. But long story short, I went back in four, three or four times because I would, I lost my glasses and I'm blind. So I would, I would try to like dig through all the rubble to try to find a phone. I couldn't find one. So I would go back out to the freeway and try to wave somebody down. I couldn't get anybody stopped. And that, that went on for 20 minutes or so. And then, um, and then Noah, my tour manager at the time, I heard him like, you scream, you kind of yell and so I ran back down there. And I also remember there was briars everywhere and I was barefoot. So my, every time I was running back and forth, these briars are sticking to my feet. But anyway, and I looked at Noah, I climbed back in there and we're just looking at each other like, what the fuck just happened? Like, this is crazy. And I was like, we need a phone like right now. And the second I said that his cell phone, which had through the flipping had gone from the, the bunk lounge to the front lounge, which was crazy on its own, lit up underneath all like this pile of stuff and grabbed it called 911. And they were there within like five minutes and maybe 10, maybe less. I don't even know. But so yeah, I mean, that was, and then we got to the hospital. They put you in an ambulance. Mm hmm. They put me in an ambulance. They put Ricky in an ambulance and took him to Vanderbilt because they knew that he was, I actually was not concussed and neither was Tanner. But they, Ricky was kind of talking out of his head or whatever. So they, they sent him to Vanderbilt because they're like, he's, he's got some sort of head thing going on. I, the only thing I had was I broke, I fractured my back and I had a bunch of staples right here where I hit my head, but that was it. And then just obviously sore for two weeks or whatever. Tanner, Tanner had, yeah, all the stuff that I said and they had to do that thing where they stick a straw in his ribs to, to drain his lungs and man, that was to me, aside from that initial like waking up and maybe thinking I was going to, oh, this is the worst part. My wife was on the last night of her bachelorette party in New Orleans. And thank God they, it was the last night and that they had just gotten back to the hotel. But I Face-Timed her because like before I got, on the way to the hospital or? Yeah, like right before I got in the ambulance and then dude, I look like a man going like a blood running down and my, I had like a piece of my head was just like, you could just peel it back and like, it was, it was crazy. But, and I was like, hey, I don't know what's, I don't know what's going to happen. I've always had like a weird fear of like a brain injury. You know what I mean? That's kind of always freaked me out. So I was just like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I love you and I'm so sorry. We were in a really bad bus accident. I think everybody's alive, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it was really, that was like really horrible and hard to do and just to see it, her and all her friends kind of scared for us. Anyway, the hospital, I got cleared, went home. And you know, the main, the other, the, you always kind of wonder why that happens. And I think there's a lot of reasons, but one is that they found out that Ricky had a brain tumor, which caused him to have either an aneurysm or seizure while he was driving. And you know, I think things, especially something to that magnitude, probably happens for a lot of different reasons, you know, whether that be a wake up call, whatever it may be for whoever was involved. But I, you know, one of my, one of the more, I wouldn't say serendipitous, but just one of the more profound reasons I think was that Ricky's daughter was getting married in two weeks. And I truly believe that had they not found that then, I just feel like he would have had another one and he driving down the road or doing something and it could have killed him. And the fact that he survived, they found it and he was able to walk his daughter down the aisle like two weeks later. It was pretty, I don't know. That always stuck out to me a lot. He chills. Yeah. And he passed around a year to the day because of that brain tumor. It was the same kind that it's the one that a few people have gotten. Did you know Busby at all? It was the same exact one that Busby had. Wow. Just kind of happened fast and yeah. But anyway, so yeah. And then after the bus accident, I was to be married, did get married. That sounded like it was arranged or something. I was to be married three weeks after that. Right after you get knighted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got knighted and then I was to be married. And so I had like a week of recuperation, I guess, and then Callie's family came to town and all the wedding stuff started and then we got married and then the week after that was CMA week and then the week after that was our two week honeymoon and then it was the holidays. And so like, and then I went back on the road. So I just sort of like drank and just like sort of had a good time through all of the time that I should have been sort of processing what happened to me and kind of how terrifying it was. And so a year later to the day is when I had in the course over the course of three or four days, like a series of which I had never had before, but like panic attacks. And it was just like the weather was getting cool and it was like, it was just all the triggers of how it felt when we had that bus accident. And yeah, so I mean, I just I knew something was wrong and I knew it had something to do with that, but I do I think just after the after the wreck it like I never I didn't handle that the right way. And not that the the drinking had everything to do with it, but it just it was really bad timing for me to to process, you know, what was going on because I just had so much life stuff. And that CMA week was a really busy one for me because I had a lot of really great stuff going on, but just stuff. And anyway, so it was just it took a while to dig that back up and get it worked on. Well, I know even this time that you've shared the story with me and I've heard it a couple of times, but it's even more vivid. There's more details. There's things I didn't know. I'm sure that as you recall it and tell it, there's probably other things you're putting together because it seems like it was fragmenting because you were unconscious for quite a bit of it. I didn't realize there was that much of a time gap between when you got help. I knew I remember you telling me around the road and got help, but I didn't realize you were back and forth all those times. That was a part of the story that didn't have, which is just wild. And I'm sure if you're out there. And you've been in an experience like that, where you've had some type of traumatic experience. And what we would call an event trauma, which I'll talk about more in a minute, whether it be a car accident or whatever, it could even be activating to hear some of those stories. Once you think it's happening, it can either be activating, it might bring you back into your own experience, or it can be relieving because it's relatable to hear somebody else talk about their experience. But either way, I think it's really important to note that processing and talking about this stuff, even the hard parts to hear like the graphic parts that you kind of clench up a little bit like the meat hanging off your head when you're talking about that. It's really important, I think, to process this stuff and find a right way to do it. And I wouldn't say I'm curious about the mental health impact other than the onset of the panic attacks. Before I conclude my thought, was there any other symptoms that happened before then? Or did you feel like you were just medicating your nervous system so much with work and alcohol that you didn't quite feel? Do you have any flashbacks? Within that calendar year? Yeah. I would have some pretty mild anxiety, obviously getting back on the bus for that following year. Do you remember the first time you walked back on the bus? I did. It was till we were going to play some shows in Georgia. And the venue was like six hours away. And I just wanted to do it in the daytime. So we got on the bus at like 6 a.m. Obviously it was a different bus. And it was loud and like the air shocks or whatever on it were not good. So if we hit the smallest bump, it was just like bang bang, you know. And I guess it was a good way to break me back into it. But yeah, I remember and it was and it was fine. It wasn't really that big of a deal. And the guy that started driving for me Chad is my driver now. And he is like the most careful, you know, diligent, just he's a perfect bus driver. But but yeah, I definitely remember the first time. Scary. The one thing that helped me more than anything was that it wasn't a drunk driver and it wasn't a deer. It was a freak accident that happened because someone else had a medical condition. And that the odds of that are way lower than or excuse me way lower. Yeah, then like, so like had it been a drunk driver or a deer or something like that, I feel like I would worry about it more that it was going to happen again. Although it doesn't really make sense because it could still happen with those things. But it just for some reason, I was always comforting even just getting back on the bus for the first time to be like this was a very freak one in a million thing that happened and you're good now. So yeah, it's um, it our our brain has a way of doing that in circumstances like that. I had a an accident in 2010, I think it was 2009 2010. And I'm a big equestrian guy, big horseback guy. I've been doing it my whole life. But at this particular reason, I had gotten into cult starting, starting young horses and what they used to call breaking the more modern term for that is starting now. Okay. And I had gotten to work with a couple of my heroes, you know, Buck Branham and and a couple others on cult starting. If you know anything about that world, then you know that those those guys are kind of some of the godfathers of it. Ray Hunt, I got to do a clink with him before he passed away for any horsemen out there. You'll know what I'm talking about. So I felt pretty equipped. You know, I was like, and I'd had some good experience. And I was starting a young cult that was two years old. And it was the first time I had him out of the round pin. And I was in the parking lot of the barn area, which was a gravel parking lot. And I again, I was on a green young horse the first time he had a person on his back outside of a contained environment. But I felt pretty good about the situation where I was. I didn't know what was going to happen next was a couple of things. There were this was a working cattle ranch with two other cowboys that worked full time. They were buddies of mine. After work, I would go run cows and work cows with them. And they had not seen me because I've been on the road for a month. And cowboys will do cowboy things. And they thought we're going to have some fun. And so they kind of wanted to run up on me and surprise me. Didn't know what horse I was on. If I'd been on a seasoned or an experienced horse, it wouldn't have been a big deal. He probably got a little startled on that might have got a little started when you laughed it off, you know. But by the time they came flying up on us, they didn't they saw us on a green, you know, green horse. And and he took off and I still didn't pay in it because I've been, you know, if you ride your whole life, you've been thrown off a lot of horses. But as we were headed towards kind of a grassy area, I was considering an emergency exit. So in my mind, rationally, I was thinking, I know I need to get off this thing pretty quick because he wouldn't, he wouldn't buck in per se, but he was kicking out. There's a difference in bucking and kicking out. He wouldn't bend in his back, but he was kicking his back legs, making it hard to stay on. And I didn't even have a bit in rains. I just had a lead rope on him. So I was looking at where I was going. I was getting ready to pull this, you know, ideally you take one rain and you pull his head all the way around you, which forces him to slow down and then you would kind of roll off of and hit the ground, but way more peaceful than what ended up happening. As I did that, or when I was preparing to do that, he shot left out of nowhere. And when he did, I got out of balance on the right. So I was kind of hanging off the right side of him and he ran me into a telephone pole. Oh, no, full run. And I didn't tell the story. I don't know if I've ever told this story. You know, live, but I just thought about it because you were so gracious to walk me through yours. It reminded me of an event trauma of mine. And I hit the telephone pole with the left side of my face. It flipped me off the back of the horse. The only reason I remember that I didn't go unconscious surprisingly, but I was very star. I saw stars, you know, I blacked out for a minute, but I was still conscious. But I evidently right before the contact, I grabbed the horse's mane. And I pulled out the force was so hard, I pulled a big chunk of his mane that was holding it in my hand when I hit the ground. First, I knew I was screwed up. My jaw was hanging. And I had a what they call it what they call an impact wound, which was this my lower jaw went one way the top jaw went the other way. And so I just popped open where you could touch my jaw right here. Fractured 11 teeth. I'll never forget that. And talk about trauma trauma so weird, because I remember playing basketball on a short little goal with my best friend in middle school. And he jumped up for a dunk and we were playing on this, you know, whatever a five foot goal. And he got caught in the net and it yanked his tooth out. And I never will forget we were by ourselves at home didn't know what to do. So we called in a way I grew up in a town of 5000 people. So you know the dentist, you know, of course, yeah. So we didn't even call it parents or call the dentist. Yeah. Hey, what do we do? And he said, Hey, if the tooth is intact, which it was the root was in all that. It was an adult tooth or whatever. He said, put it in, put it in. Yeah, I can't even remember the exact age. We said put it in a glass of milk, put it in a refrigerator. I don't know. Total country doctor or maybe brilliant. I don't know. I never looked into it since it. I can't remember why the reason it was, but evidently that was going to preserve it. But I remember thinking keep the teeth because I that's the first thing I did when I landed. I broke my arm. I broke three ribs. I shattered my jaw, but I spit 11 teeth out into my hand. And I remember looking down at my teeth and I thought I better hang on to these things. Going back to that. That's crazy. In that moment, you actually thought about putting the back then going back to your. Yeah, I was in shock. And so you start calculating your risk and where am I, what do I do next? And so I put I remember putting them in my pocket. Now, of course, unfortunately, mine were all broken half really. And so I didn't have anything I could do with them. But I had enough in me to I was an hour from Nashville. I was close to Hickman County. There's a little hospital in center of Tennessee that was just the town near where I grew up. And one of the guys, they were freaked out because I must have looked like probably like you did, you know, just dead, you know, like I was dying. And he said, it's probably happened to that hospital. Well, we did make it there. So here's what here's what they say. He said, we got to get you hospital now. And cowboy thought is you don't call an ambulance. You throw somebody in the back of the truck and go, you know, and yeah. But I had enough sense of me to know that like my head is messed up and my face is definitely messed up. And I'm not going to that hospital. I need to go to Vanderbilt. I got to go to a hospital or trauma center, you know, and and I was I was pissed off too about how that happened, you know, because I even though it I don't look back now and I'm still good friends with one of the two, wasn't necessarily intentional, but it was still stupid knowing what I know about horses now. But we do stupid stuff. But I was pissed off. I didn't really want their help. I actually walked my horse and put him away. And then I got my truck and I drove myself to Vanderbilt. And I never forget coming up by 40 West coming to Vanderbilt. I could barely talk because my jaw was hanging over here and I just looked mangled and then I'm sorry to interrupt. Did you have so much adrenaline? Were you in pain? I had I was in adrenaline and shock. So I remember being in pain, but not really. Oddly enough, it was like I was in overdrive trying to get to where I was going. Yeah, I was kind of the same way. I never never thought about it hurting at all. Yeah, I was surprised when you said you remember and but your brains will continue to remember based on what I know about neurobiology now the the briars that you were stepping on. Yeah. Isn't that interesting how that memory pops up. Yeah. But yeah, I remember that first hour to I should have been in a lot more pain than I was because dental pain and your it can some of the most sensitive nerves are worse. It'd be horrible. But I didn't but I was driving and I remember I first I lived in a little condo that I rented in Green Hills right there at 440 and at the interstate. Wait, was it Hillsborough Place? Hillsborough Place. I lived there. Did you really? Yeah. That's crazy. That was my first place in Nashville. What? Or no second place in Nashville. That was my first place in Nashville. Yeah. Did you buy one of those little condos? My parents actually did years and years ago as an investment. So I rented it from my parents. Okay. Yeah. Well, actually we were Hillsborough Station. So it was the one pool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I had a pool. That's crazy. So I lived on the lower corner ride the only pool of you. I lived on that lower because we used to that was back right when you those right when you got there, like on the lower corner or was it? It's well, it seems like you pass a few of the units right before you get to Hillsborough, the other one where you lived and the last unit looks at the pool. Yeah. I'm trying to remember the address. Small world. I would have never guessed that. Crazy. And that was way prior to me getting my life worked out and pivoting and getting into the psychology where all the things getting what year was that? By the way, gosh, I'm horrible with timeline. You said like 2010 was around when this was happening. Yes, that would have been the tail end of when I lived there. I guess crazy. I'm when I moved to Nashville, I moved into that spot in 2010. We were probably there at the same time. That's why that's why I'll do dang. All right. So I so what I did instead of go to the hospital, I drove home because I thought I bet I'm gonna be there for a while. I better pack a bag. Yeah, I just I wasn't thinking, you know, some cowboy shit. So I so I didn't hit me until I pulled into the parking spot. You remember you got two parking spots, one covered one and covered you. At least you did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I pulled into that parking spot. And then I thought, man, I have messed up. I've got to get to the hospital. What am I thinking? It kind of registered that I don't need to go in there and pack a bag. And I remember calling. I called my girlfriend at the time first, or even call my mom. Usually my mom's the first call. I called my girlfriend said I've had a pretty bad accident. And you know, I need to and so I drove myself to Bandy ER. I didn't go in. I strobe my turn around. Of course, it's pretty close, you know, drove myself to Bandy ER. And I never will forget I valed the car, I valed the truck. And the guy was like, Oh, the guy immediately he looked at me and he called the head and they had a stretcher out there. And because I figured when I walked in, I was just gonna go sit in the yard, wait on my turn. And they're like, No, right, you get the you get the all access pass. Yeah. So I went through, you know, to two, you know, about two years of rehabilitation where they they wire they had to wire me shut for 90 days. Unfortunately, when they took me apart, they left me malaligned. So it was a misfire on the first surgery. So they go in and have to re break your jaw. And then why are you shut again? And so and then and then getting all the new that's funny. Yeah, what happened to your teeth? Well, I got eight and eight, you know, fake ones, I got veneers. So the did you the ones that you did you did you when you got to the doctor? Did you say here you go like no, at that time, I had I was seeing I went right into, you know, surgery and all the stuff that they were doing. And I it hit me then that they were all broken up. And I did say that I kept them. And he said, Why are they whole and he could tell because you could see it. I mean, it just looked like snaggle tooth when I opened my mouth. And and they threw those away with the jeans. I never did get to keep out. I did get to keep the main the horseman I still got that's cool. Yeah, I found it. But I mean, I don't know why I walked through that whole story, I guess so I guess I just said this ironically, I said, If you're at home listening to this and you've been through a similar experience, that's the power story to me. I think if somebody's sitting across from you and they're willing to be vulnerable about their story and something hard that they went through, it does nothing but opens the door and invites you into a hard moment in your life. And I think that's the if you strip everything back, counseling, therapy, you know, I'm an advocate coaching, I don't strip it all the way back to having a mentor, have a buddy that can speak into your life and you can share with them without any agenda. It's just good for the human soul. And I think it's the way we were always intended, always intended to be as human beings. But here's a natural way it plays out. I normally wouldn't have taken this much of my time on my story on your interview. But it's like I could not tell that story because you told your yeah, I don't know why I needed to tell it. I was getting ready to get into the heady side of event and situational trauma and try to tell people what to know about that. But in some ways, I think sharing story to story might even be what I needed more. Maybe what other people needed to hear. Man, that was one of my favorite parts of on site was you know, after the last event that that they would have, I was intensive. So I was kind of like, I was and at the time I was like the only intensive there. And so it was like a big group. That's right. We brought you in kind of off cycle. Yeah. And I was and I was the only, I was like the loner. But but so after, you know, after they the groups did their last, you know, whatever it may be that night, everybody was just hanging out. And it was really and I felt like it was like what you just talked about was was there's just something there's a closeness when when everybody around is just talking about their, you know, their fucked up situations or stories that they've been through. And that's, I agree with you, man. I think that that does more for somebody, man, like I left with, I mean, what with so many takeaways, but a big one was just like, you know, part of my like anxiety was like nobody else is like I've gone through this horrible thing and now I'm like alone in the world or something like that. And to go and just know how many people are going through something crazy or drug addiction or whatever it may be or had their own version of like a horrible accident. That was just as healing for me. Well, I won't say just as healing. It was a huge part of the healing as it was doing like the 12 hours of therapy, you know, I mean, it was to relate to these people was special. Well, and I a very example, it happened yesterday. It was actually the same cabin you were in. And I had a client come in that came from a friend of a friend. And so I was in they'd been through something really, really terrible, you know, a couple months ago, just unthinkable. And having obviously still in the shock of that and having a very difficult time even talking about it, couldn't even see a photo of what had happened. And had a tough first day with the clinician I had with them because they just weren't quite ready for that stage to get into the idea of unpacking it therapeutically with tools. So I cleared my schedule went out there yesterday, which I rarely get to do any more these days. And I just sat on a porch for six hours. And we just we had a port front porch conversation. And you could say it was therapy, but it sure didn't feel like it. I just watched her slowly ease into the environment and feel safe enough to start to crack the door open to start to tell this story for the first time since it happened. And I watched, I can physically see it now because I've sat in front of thousands of people I watched the weight kind of dissipate off her shoulders. And she dropped her shoulders a little bit and she started to breathe a little deeper for the first time, realized that I think I can survive this. And it all starts with the courage to share your story with another human being and the reason I want y'all to hear that maybe the reason it happened the way that it has this morning, probably would have been it may be way more effective than me trying to teach you about the brain science around this stuff. I mean, that is what it is. But not everybody's going to have the opportunity, resources, time, whatever it may be, to go to a place and get sophisticated therapeutic opportunities. I hope everybody gets that opportunity, but not everybody will. But you can have an opportunity like this, find one other person that's willing to hold your story. You might find that they can relate to it and have the courage to share it. And you might be surprised at how much that does for your mental health and your well being. I had just quickly and I want to hear about yours, but I had about a year, you know, before me getting back or going back on the bus for the first time was for me getting back on a horse for the first time. Really tough, you know, and about a year went by when I was in recovery, there was a whole lot more to that story. I learned so much then about taking this probably when first on my life, I started to realize I need to take care of myself and my body a little bit better. But I remember I was sitting at an Asheville Sounds game and I was sitting and there was a metal rail in front of me because we were right on the front row of the outfield watching the game. And I was trying to watch the game, but I kept having visions of the metal rail crashing into my face. And that was the first time I remember having a little flashback. And then I didn't get, I've had panic attacks, but not around that particular event. Thankfully for me that happened early on and I learned how to navigate those. But I started to have unique traumatic experiences around that accident. And I jumped in and the MDR was really, really impactful and helpful for me. And I did a protocol through about six weeks and walked back into that story. I too tied it back to an old story, but it dissipated the symptoms. And I really, I mean, I still have natural things happen when I'm on horseback, but as far as having some of the more predictable things happen, I haven't had those since. And so it's been pretty much miracle. I'm curious if, for you, if you've had anything, you know, panic related or anxiety related since? No, I'm not on the bus or really not at all, but nothing related to that. It helped me tremendously. Like it took some time. I mean, it took, I bet it took two years probably. But I cannot tell you the last time that like we hit a bump or like the bus crank, for the longest time, I mean, the second the bus crank, you know, I'm just like, all right, here we go. You know, like we're rolling down the road. But I haven't thought about it in two years. It's been, well, let's see, it's that happened in 2022. So yeah, probably two years now since I've even thought about it on the bike. I just it's such a faint thing for me now, which I owe all of that to EMDR for sure. But my anxiety, all that stuff didn't even come from being on the the bus. One day I was so funny how your brain, it's your the brain, your brain is so it can can convince you of like anything, which is like oddly like a superpower, but it's, you know, but like when it comes to anxiety, it's like, you know, you can convince yourself that you're dying, you can convince yourself that you're blind on if you have like bad enough anxiety. I was playing golf and I at the time was working out a lot. I did a really heavy chest day. I got a I hope this lady hears this because this is I never told her this, but I got a like an IV or something. It was really, really, I was like really, really healthy at the time. And she was like, we checked your, I got my blood drawn that morning. And she called me and she was like, your potassium levels are really high. So if you have chest pains, just go to the docker. And I was like, okay, what does that even mean? And come to find out she just did my tourniquet too tight. And apparently that's like, it won't read it the right way. Anyway, long story short, I'd ironically done like a heavy chest day, played golf that afternoon. And my chest started hurting. And again, this is right around like a calendar year later. And I just got in my head about it. And I was like, am I having a heart? Am I going to have a heart attack? Like is this lady? And I just said that the snowball and the snowball and the snowball and I had never, ever, ever had that ever. And sure enough, I left the golf course, dropped my golf cart, ran to my truck, drove to an urgent care. And at that point, it had escalated so bad that like my heart rate was at like 170. My hands were numb. Like I was having all this like actual symptoms. My arm was hurting like the whole thing. I had completely convinced myself that I was having a heart attack. And I pulled up to this urgent care. They couldn't, they didn't have an EKG for some reason. So this freaking ambulance and fire truck had to pull up in this parking lot. And at this point, I'm like, what? Damn it, like what is going on? And they were like, no, dude, have you ever had a panic attack? And I was like, no, I don't even know what it feels like. And they're like, that's you're having a panic attack right now. And then like a week later, my wife had to have a minor outpatient surgery. And so I was at the house all day waiting for her doctor to call me to say she was ready because it was right down the street. And I was like, I'll, you know, there could be three hours, could be five hours, we don't know. So I'm just hanging out at the house. And when I went in, they finally called me. And when I went into the recovery room, it just that hospital scene, which I had not been in in a year, it got me. And the same thing, I just went into a, I didn't, I didn't technically have the same type of panic attack where I froze or whatever. But it was just a different kind of anxiety. Like it was really, really wild. But anyway, after that, I called it was really two main events. And then I was like, I'm not, I'm not going to suffer through this. Like I need to fix this now. So that's I think the next day is when I maybe two days later is when I called you and started working on it. But yeah, but my panic stuff, I guess the hospital was one, but I never got it from the bus for whatever reason. It never triggered me as bad as the hospital did. I think mostly because the hospital is just where it like became real for me, you know, and that it seems like the hospital was more vivid and, and just laying in there alone in that freaking room with those bright lights. Like hospital rooms ought to be like this, man. It's like, it's just a horror. I don't know. It was a horrible vibe. And but yeah, it, it, it, I kind of forget where I was going with that. But it, oh, my, my thing, my anxiety, it all stemmed from like, I'm not safe. Like I'm going to be, I'm going to die. And so for, and I had had a few like mild cases of it coming up to my fake heart attack and then the other Cali hospital thing. But that's what I worked on the most. And I, and I have not had that kind of thought in years that I was like unsafe or, you know, I would just, it would, I would have like a random shooting pain through my head and be like, this is it. I'm having an aneurysm. Like I'm, this is, I'm about to, I mean, just, you know how that stuff works. It's just you can convince yourself of like the craziest things. But through all that work, I mean, it really, I have, I, that's just something I don't, I don't have that thought anymore. It's amazing. Yeah. Well done. Thanks for sharing that too. I think it's encouraging for a lot of people out there that may be carrying something new or carrying something old, that there is a way through it. There's always a way through it. And an example, you probably have heard me talk about positive psychology on the show before. If you're, if you're a listener that's hung with us, and that basically removes the D at the end of PTSD and puts a G post-traumatic growth. And there is a growth element to this. I experienced it last week. My wife, she just come home from a girl stripped of Arizona. Some of the school moms and her good friends, they went out to Sedona. I've never been, I was jealous. I've always wanted to get out there. Me too. That's very cool. But she, she's not necessarily the adventurous type. And I'm like an adventure junkie. So it's interesting we were together. She plays a little more safe, but she really wants to be more active because our kids now want to do more things and she wants to be a little more brave. And so she came home from this trip having done some super hard hikes. And she was so proud. She wanted to show me the videos and look what I did. I went up here. I went up here and it was really fun. Three hours later, I'm at work and I get a call and she'd fracture her foot in the backyard. Just standing on basically a shoe, a high shoe. Man, the irony in that is crazy. Yeah. Throwing her football with my son. She stepped off of it sideways. She was so discouraged because she was like, I just literally put my life at risk hiking on mountains and I'm in my backyard and broke my foot. Anyway, off to Vanderbilt we go. I got the kids in tow. It's about seven at night because we just had everybody keep them. So Vanderbilt took great care of us as they do. But the growth element to me having spent quite a bit of time in hospitals around that particular event I described was now years later and having done a lot of the reconciliation work, I go in there and it's not like they're not activating, but I just go in there with so much empathy for everybody that's in that place. A, you're right. The aesthetic in the environment just sucks. The reason we don't redesign hospitals just baffles me. Same reason on site looks like on site. I never wanted any type of clinic where you go get support to feel like anything other than a good vibe and a good home. But I know hospitals have their own challenges that way. But I was there and I wasn't just thinking about my wife. I just looked around and I thought about the families that were sitting with uncertainty in the waiting room and the person next door that maybe just got some bad news. Even more importantly was the nurses that were working the graveyard shift and what they must consume vicariously and secondarily by working with people. And I just had so much empathy for them to the point where I made eye contact with everybody and thanked them for what they're doing. They don't get a lot of that. And that's the growth edge is coming through something like this. If you put the pieces back together, collect dots and then connect them, it actually makes you a more present, more viable and a more compassionate human being, I think on other people. And I've seen that with you. A lot of people have experiences like you did on the mental health side. Choose to tuck those away, move on about life and nobody ever knows about it. And you've kind of done the opposite. You've been outspoken and shared your story over and over again to the point where I probably call you as an artist and a creative somewhat of an advocate for mental health. Yeah, I'm happy to call myself that. It's pretty cool. What made you want to do that? Man, I just think that it's... We're at a point in our life like in society where it's like sweeping that stuff under the rug or being embarrassed of it is ridiculous, I think. I mean, it happens. It's real. People go through stuff and we're just at a point in life, in the world where I think it's completely okay to talk about it. The biggest advocate is not that... To me, it's like don't be embarrassed of it. Give it a name and it's just astounding. I'll tell the story and this guy still has a flip phone, so he's not even going to hear me tell the story. To kind of speak to what I'm getting at, I have a great... Well, actually, he's a cousin, but my grandfather was one of like 11 kids. My grandfather's youngest brother and his oldest nephew are like the same age kind of thing. But he's like an older version of Hank Hill, if that makes sense. I only see him at the deer camp, but I see him a lot during deer season. And that year, 2023, I was coming out of the woods and he was waiting on me and he's just an old Southern... He's just an old... He's a Hank Hill. I mean, he's literally a Hank Hill. And before I got in the truck, he said... And he said, man, I want you to know I'm really sorry about what all you just went through. I was dealing with a lot of family stuff about 20 years ago and I was at a dinner and I felt like out of nowhere, the walls in our house were just closing in on me. And he said he got... I can't remember if he got medicated or went and got some help, whatever it was, but he said I'm a lot better now and I just want you to know that I've been through what you've been through and basically it sucks and I'm here for you if need anything. And he is just... Quite literally, if you gave me a list, like name 10 people that you would think would bury that deep on down and never ever tell anybody or talk about it again, he would be one of them. And so that... Even that small of a moment, I mean, I don't know how big of a moment that was for him, but it was... Or small for him, but it was huge for me because I was like, man, you have no... People have no idea, truly, what people are going through and what people, I think, maybe are either embarrassed to talk about or just don't want to. And I have such a great support system in my life between my wife, my family, my wife's family that I don't... If there's somebody in the... A fan or with me being a public figure that wants to poke fun or call me this or call me that for talking about having anxiety, that's completely fine. I've got the people that I love that have all had my back and that's all that I need. And so I want to speak out about it. And I just think it's important. And I think, you know, I have people that have panic attacks at my shows all the time. I can watch it happen. Because our shows are loud and they're kind of rowdy and stuff, but I've seen... I've seen poor people get pulled over the front of the rail, you know, and they're just shook up and you can tell that they're having some sort of anxiety or panic attack. But man, what better of a platform than to be able to stand in front of thousands of people and be like, if y'all are dealing with this, like, hey, and I've said this and I mean this in the most... I mean this like in the... To make just a point, but I'm like, I'm the coolest guy in the room right now. And I suffer from crap like this every single day. So like, we're all the same here. Like, it's, you know, and just to know that people can relate. Nobody's larger than life. We're all human. We all deal with stuff. And, and yeah, it just makes me feel good. And I feel like once a year, I'll also see maybe more than that. An artist, especially it's all... They're always around the same. It's like the same trajectory. And there's like a... There's like a depressed or anxious or overwhelmed checkpoint, like right in the middle of the rocket ship ride. And even if I don't know, I might always reach out. I mean, you know, I don't know what it means to them. It might not mean anything, but it's... I just am like, you know, just to know, just to have a community within this world, because it's such an acute, not many people understand it world, you know, and so just to have any sort of system of like you do with the gang thing, you know, just like any of that stuff. I just, I'm a huge advocate for it. So I love that you're choosing to do it. I remember after we had an opportunity to work together a little bit, and you had an experience, experience you described at on site. And I don't even remember what publication it was at the moment. I wish I did and we'll maybe put it in the show notes and give it credit later. But you were on the cover of some music magazine publication, and you were telling this story. And of course, they called me and wanted me to add to the interview a little bit. And I said, would you be okay? Because you'd done the pre interview. And I said, would you be okay letting me read his part first, and then I'd be glad to contribute mine. And it was interesting what I wrote before I read your interview to what I sent them went from like here to here. And the reason it did, it wasn't that I wasn't proud to be a part of it, that interview, it was just your story, the way you were sharing it, the way you answered the questions was so vulnerable and so compelling, that I thought, if the goal of us telling this story together in this publication is to ripple out and help give people hope, you've already done it. I need to be a footnote, because you're the one that obviously people because of your success creatively, you've been platformed and platforms mean kind of weird things to some people. They feel like they know you for what that small part of what they see. And you're choosing to take a path to let them see the whole version of you. And I really think it humanizes people, because whether we like it or not, I'd love you know, I think I've got some cool things to offer the world. I've got some good life experience. I've studied a lot of neat tools. I'm proud of a lot of the life that I live. I'm still a mess sometimes to with a message. But I'd like to think I might have some kind of influence on the next generation. But at the end of the day, you're the guy that's influencing my kids more than I am. You whoever they're listening to is who they're going to look to and be like, Whoa, hardy. And then here's hardy being like, Yeah, I'm a human too. I struggle with the same things you do. Just I admire that you do that. It's why I spend so much time trying to put a little wind behind all y'all sales is because I feel like that's the ripple that I'll never be able to measure for a guy that cares about humankind the way that I do. And I think that we've got some kinship there. You have you do have this. If there were a mayor of music row, you seem to be one of the most loved guys. I'll take that. They may have music, right? Yeah, yeah, go write that. The, uh, and I think I heard you say in another interview is because you just sit deep down. It's like, what's your philosophy and how to move about these rooms and these relationships. And I love that you were like, Nannis, be kind. Just lead with kindness. Be kind to the people in front of you. And this world can create stress and high capacity and jaded and competitive and all the stuff. And how do you maintain a sense of that? And just you have a humble disposition and you feel like a guy that you got a good vibe. Easy to talk. I was excited about this interview. I did no prep. So like, this will be easy. You'll be easy to talk to. And we know each other. So I was cheating a little. But I would imagine that kind of energy in a creative room. I've never, I've been in lots of rooms with and seeing the songwriting process take place. I don't think I've ever been one with you. I don't think I can. But I would, I know you're highly sought after one of the top guys in town. And I know a lot of it's because of your, your skill to be able to, I like the way you said it early when we were talking about it out of context, when you said it's fascinating how the brain can, can make up stories and create perceptions about what's around us. And I've so, so can story and you write them every day to create perceptions and to move people energetically. And you seem to be a Jedi ninja at it. Obviously, every time you, every time you pick up a pen, something crazy happens, including, I want to get into this before we finish talking about this newest album of your own work, but everybody's working town seems like it's being touched by you in some way. But I got to think, man, you're a guy that even with all those credentials, I bet you'd be great in a room because of your disposition. You're a good hang. But how, how do you maintain that in the pace of, of the music industry? You mean, just in general, like as a whole, man, I don't know. I don't have like a, I don't really have like a mean bone in my body. And, and I don't know where it comes from, but I just, that's the main thing is just making, I always want to make people feel comfortable and, and I've always had the disposition that I'm extremely lucky to be here. I moved to Nashville on a complete whim. I didn't move here with stars in my eyes. I wrote two songs and I said, you know what, I'm going to try the songwriting thing out. And I, I moved up here and I, you know, I learned how to write songs and I got a publishing deal because this guy that I'm related to was like trying to just sign a young writer and then I just fell into a record deal. I just, I feel like I'm so lucky all the time. And, and I don't know, I don't know why, how that translates into how I treat people, but I just, I feel like I'm just so lucky to be here and that I don't deserve any of this. And I'm certainly not owed any of this. And, and I don't know, it just makes me, I don't know, just makes me want to pay that forward in some weird way. But I don't know, I just think that being a good hang and being good to people is the most important thing in the industry, in the world also. But it's, it's just, I don't know, it's in my nature. I just like being nice to people. Well, I don't know how else to put it. Well, the science backs it up and you're keeping an open stance of gratitude about where you are and, and feeling lucky to be at the table over and over again. I feel like that's a tool I try to deploy and it's super attractive and it, and it helps us maintain a sense of well-being as we go. I just remembered that I think, I think you were there because I remember you playing this song. So maybe I was in kind of a creative environment with you early on, maybe before you even knew each other, but I don't know why I just thought about this memory, but it was when FGL had played a show in Jacksonville, Florida. It was after Route 91, because I remember there was an incident that night, you know, the Big Vegas incident. That was their first show after that. Oh, and so I pulled the fire alarm. Yes. I was there. I remember and afterwards we were on the bus, we were on the Tree Vibes bus with Nelly and you played, I remember when you played up down. Oh, no way. Isn't that crazy? That is crazy. Yeah. I remember all that. You were there. Yeah, that was, we had totally not actually met yet. Right. Yeah. That was a wild bus that night. It was, oh yeah. Back in the old school Tree Vibes days where it was, it was, that was a party bus. Man, yeah, I remember the fire alarm thing. That was crazy. Yep. And yeah, wow. That was, I mean, that's 10 years ago, dude. Yeah, I guess it would have been 10 years ago. It was because 2016 or 17, because 18 was like when I started my own thing. So, wow, that's crazy. I was, I was at front of house and ironically standing by standing with BK's parents that were there and none of us knew what to do, but we all kind of freaked out when that moment happened because the fire alarm got pulled and I remember they looked at each other. They looked at each other. They were like, what do we do? And then just took off stage and then I grabbed his parents and we all shot outside. And of course it ended up being okay. But yeah, wild to take us back there. But I want to, you mentioned Dear Camp and I drove in this morning listening to Bottomland. That song to me, you talk about something, well really the album. I mean, I grew up on this kind of music. You know, it was, for me, it was Outlaw Country. My parents introduced me to the, which I think it's ironically, you guys are kind of that modern version of that in some ways, you and the crew you hang with, but the highwaymen, you know, Cash and Wayland and Merle. And if you, if we were to swap stories, music stories and say what's your greatest all-time music story, it would be a Merle story that I got lucky to be a part of one time. But that music and then Hank Jr. was a big influence. You know, I remember going to Starwood and seeing him three or four times back when that was a thing. And then I listened to Country, Country, Country and I've been all the way through it and I'm kind of making my way back through it. Again, obviously I had a jump on some of it because I've seen you play Bottomland before. My dad for Christmas this year just gave me the gift I got from him for Christmas was my granddad shotgun. And so I was tearing up, listen to Bottomland this morning, bury me in Bottomland with my grandpa's rifle in my hand, take me just the way that I am. And so I grew up riding back, you know, dirt. I mean, I lived a lot of that. Everything you were writing through those songs, I lived a lot of that. But here's what you did that's really cool. And that's just who you are and what you do. And I got a community for it is if you go back and listen to any of those old records outside of cash, you know, I think Cash and some others don't want to get too into everybody's catalog. But Hank Jr., there's depth, but it was really kind of party songs. It was kind of party songs. It was a lifestyle and a culture that was representing, but it was more you that's what I party to growing up. 100%. Yeah. And yours has an element in a flare of that. It's like accentuating a culture that not many people know unless you grew up in it. We grew up in a small town in the South, in the country. But it's got depth and meaning. And it's got lyrics that'll grab your heart in the middle of it. And you'll be like, it'll take me back to when I'm riding on a dirt road at 17 years old thinking I'm on top of the world in a truck that I probably didn't deserve to have. And then all of a sudden it yanks a memory back out of the closet. And I'm like, it's actually really well written. I would think, when you hear a lot of people describe the culture we grew up in, you don't think about it as sophisticated. Think about it as kind of simple times. And it gives you that relaxed vibe. But there's a lot of weight and meaning in those lyrics. What inspired it? Why'd you want to write country, country, country and get back to your roots in that way? I just think that there's a lot of people. First of all, I just, I miss my hometown every day. I mean, Nashville is my home, but I, very, very different than a lot of people that I've, a lot of people from Philadelphia, Mississippi for whatever reason, but I had an excellent childhood and teenage era. And I owe all of that to just not the people, but the place and like, I miss it. So I try writing kind of gets to take me back there and relive a lot of that. But also just there's the, you know, the small towns are not getting any bigger. None of them are. And I just think that there's like a gap. There's like a, you know, there's so many people, there's so many small towns, especially in the Midwest and the Southeast. And there, it's a group of people that should be represented. And I've always thought that way. And there's so many kids that are currently and have also grown up just the same way I did. I mean, you're older than me, but you, you even said like there's memories that you can relate to. And I just think that there's, there's patterns of that lifestyle that, that just repeat itself and repeat itself. And, and I just, I don't know, I want to speak, I represent those people and speak to those people. I think it's, it's what I would have wanted to hear when I was growing up. But when I, when I was growing up, that type of country music didn't really exist. Eric Church was like the first guy that, you know, it was like guys like me drink too many beer on Friday after work, all that kind of stuff. And, and he was the first guy that I was like, I am, I am this guy, like I resonate with this guy. And that's who I want to be for, for other people. Well, but it also, it feels, you know, in today's climate, there's so much polarity in people have, people, unfortunately, when stressful times are out in culture, and this is not new to culture, if you study sociology and people going all the way back, there's always been times when we got divided on stuff. But it's not hard to find the divide right now, just flip the news on, you can hear the loudest 10% on either side have big strong opinions about whatever. But I also felt a sense of welcome and, and I know this word can be loaded, but it's just like you were trying to include everybody into it. It wasn't you weren't shying away from the pride that you have to talk about our roots, which sometimes I found myself because I'm well traveled, I work in a field with people from all types of types, from all over the world, almost apologetic for some of it. You know, I like time to minimize it. And there was something about the way you did it. And it's not, you know what, this is who I am. I grew up in this environment. And I need to people should know that I need to share more of that part of my world, not just with the people I grew up with, but all the people that I love and know now that grew up in different cultures. And I think that's a law start that we can, because we got so high, we get so hyper fixated on the negative things that came from our cultures. And we certainly have some of those in our history. In every culture has a way that we, that's all we talk about is what didn't go well, historically or currently, what's wrong with us. And I felt like country, country, country, country kind of celebrates what's right with us. Sure, man. About the culture is this really well written. Thank you. Yeah, I know I 100% agree with that. I mean, it's, I feel like that's a little more unintentional. Only, but it just, it's my like innate, like, I'm just so proud of where I come from that it just kind of comes out, you know, that way. I don't even feel like I'm like, yeah, come on down. I swear, it's like, it's a good time. But I just, I loved it so much and still do that. It just comes out. But it is true. I mean, I, you know, I'm also very careful with what I say about like when it comes to that kind of stuff. Like I really nitpicky, you know, I mean, there can be, there are some artists that go there and, but I don't and I, you know, whatever that may be. And I'm just really careful, whoever I'm writing with, they're like, what if it was like, yeah, but you know, I'm like, no, no, no, no, that's not what it's about. That's not, that's not, you know, that's not the vibe. So, but no, I appreciate that, man. Well, I liked it too. I was trying to figure you out because I keep a tab on what's happening in town because I'm so tied to your world that, you know, I couldn't figure out. I was like, who is this cat? You know, because I remember one time I saw you cover a kid rock song early on for somewhere, maybe somebody's bar. And, and I was like, I think he just did that better than kid rock. I think it was karaoke. I think kid rock was like standing there. So I had to do it in front of kid rock, which was terrifying. Yeah. Was it it? It was a cat. It was like, it was her grand opening. Yeah. Yep. And, and you go from a really cool rock album and then flip it to a super country country album. It seems like you're just following your creative flow and sees where it takes you, which I think is kind of cool. I would imagine you've probably had the business side of the world try to guide you into or have you have you had them try to guide you into a box and say, this is your lane stick to it? Or have you been like, I'm going to do my thing? The answer is no. No, I have not. I mean, my, my label and my management has have both like just always let me do my own thing. I'll be very candid with you though. I felt more pressure not from any person, but just in general after. So I put out what was my like favorite record two records ago, which was called quit. And it was a full on, it was just a hearty record, but it was, we marketed it as a rock record. And we did a quit tour, which ironically was the biggest tour I've had so far. But the album did not do well. And I was so proud of that record. And I thought every song on there was badass. The only, we singled a couple of songs to rock radio. They both went like top five, which was for me a success being not like a full on rock artist. Then we sing on one of the country and it peaked at like 70. But, but only, only did I feel pressure to make country country country because of quit, not doing what it did. And I think I put that pressure on myself more than anybody else, but still extremely proud of country country. But that's the only time that I was like, approached a record with like intention of like this, I want it needs to sound like this. Like, I need to kind of reintroduce myself to the format. But from now on, I kind of had a, you know, I was really proud of that record too. But from now on, I already, I already have my concept for the next record, and it's going to be crazier than anything else I've ever done. But, you know, I'm getting back to just, it's going to be extremely unpredictable. And I just, that's where I'm the most comfortable. And I think that's what my fans love the most. And it's like, okay, I did a rock record, and I said it was a rock record. And now I did a country record. And I said it was a country record. And I'm not doing that anymore. I'm just going to do this. I hate doing this, but it's like, Hardy Records is just what it's going to be from now on. And you might have a singer songwriter song that butts up to a metal song that butts up to like an obnoxious, you know, I'm country or the new kind of song. And that's just who I am. And that's where I'm, I feel like I'm the most in my own skin there. And so that's what it's going to be from now on. Oh, fantastic. Good. Well, I think the idea is what's intriguing, I think, is just not knowing what's coming. You're pretty tight too with release. You don't, you don't talk about, I definitely, if I have like, like when I had Mark and Martin the Crow in my head or like, kind of working on that, I was like, lip sealed, because I just, I get really, I like the explosion of like, when, you know what I mean? When it finally comes out. And I don't like teasing it too much. I don't want, I like the unexpected, I think, is what gets the best reaction, you know, obviously. And so I do, I like to be pretty tight knit about that kind of stuff. I know you were contemplating, you know, this has been, I can't remember, time a couple years, maybe you were contemplating how much do I like and want to tour versus how much do I want to be home? And how can I adjust my schedule to prioritize my lifestyle in my relationships versus necessarily how fast can I monetize this thing? Because we all know touring is where a lot of money is. Yeah, I mean, where the money is for sure. But how we haven't talked about that in some time. But I know you were looking to making some adaptations then. Where do you sit with all that now? Do you, I know you, you really sit on that precipice of could totally be a great songwriter forever and stay here in Nashville or being artists that put your, but you know, touring promotes music and gets, you know, it's so funny that that was one of my oddly enough, one of my biggest takeaways to from on site was that I wanted to come off the road. I felt like that was putting a lot of stress on me. And I felt like I was being swallowed. So shortly after that, I had a meeting with my manager, my booking agent and my business manager. And I wrote a letter because I do better that way. Because I, you know, having all my thoughts, you know, on a page. So I read read the letter, sit in the room. The next year I played 34 shows that was a quit tour. Last year was Jim Bob. And that was around 30. I think we might have gotten over 40. But I was playing 80 or like 90 a year. And this year it's, it's a little more around like 50. I'm kind of, I needed to like, fall in love with it again and get just miss it and want to do it. And I hated it. I got, I got to a point where I hated touring. I just, I wanted to be home. I was, I'm a hobby guy. And I love, I mean, obviously I hunt and I fish, but I do all, I do all kinds of stuff. Airheads. I like finding mushrooms. The kind, you know, the kind you can give your family and stuff. But I mean, all that stuff, man, I just, and I just was, you know, I would look up and summer would be going and I'm like, okay, well, there goes another summer of me not spending time with my wife or my family, not my kid. But man, that I quit tour was awesome. Last year was awesome. And I finally am to a point where like, I'm excited to go on the road every weekend. But now, so we have a meeting. We have a big meeting before the end of the year and I go through every weekend. And like, I will look at things even as crazy as like, okay, well, this is Labor Day. I don't want to be flying in from Portland, you know, at eight, nine PM and be exhausted and want to sleep all day on Labor Day, even just attention to detail is like a huge part of that now for me and, and just make it. It's the small things that kind of make you feel better about it as a whole. But man, that that's taken up. I wouldn't even call it a break, but cutting way back on touring was huge for me. And, and now I miss it. Now we're back to like 50 shows. This is kind of where I want to live though. I'm not I'm definitely not going to go back to 70 or 80. And I don't know what would happen for me to want to do that. But I have a very healthy relationship with touring now and it's fun. And we have a structure out there. I have an amazing, amazing team. I have guys, my band, my crew, I look forward to hanging out with them like they are truly my band and my crew are like my best friends. I have a few really good friends in Nashville, but I also call my best friends. But I genuinely cannot wait to go. I told my band the other day, one of my favorite things to do on the road is to just go sit on the band bus and we just cut up for like two hours, just whatever, just laugh and just cut up for two hours. And it's like my favorite thing in the world. So anyway, all that being said, I have a great relationship with touring now. So really excited about that. Dude, I'm so glad to hear that. I've been wanting to ask you that even offline, because it's one of the hardest things to do. Yeah. And I'm even struggling with it on a whole different scale, obviously, but it's opportunity overload. It's when you get some traction and you've got some good things to offer and it supports your vocation. And you know that helps your family, but also being away from your family. It's just such a stretch. And it's hard to say no in those seasons because there's a lot of such cool yeses to get to go do. And I stretched it a little too far to last couple years. I had my hand in too many different things. It was going too fast. And I learned a lot, but I'm recalibrating this year. I'm resetting the deck and prioritizing the things that really matter the most. And thankfully, I've got a team to both socially friends and my work team that encourages that because it impacts them. You know, if I slow down, it slows down some of their stuff, but they were like, we care about you before we care about what you're getting ready to go do. Let's do this together. Yeah, who knows two years from now, I'm about bounce back and do more of it. But I just want to acknowledge you because it's one of the hardest decisions I've seen artists wrestle with is when they're on the J curve and they've got the momentum, not riding that wave, but surfing it at your own pace, I think is one is really important for long term sustainability. Yeah, I think so, man. And it's it's dude money talks, dude. And like, it's hard to look at the type of money that you could make. And not even like, like, it's like money like senior kids to college money, you know what I mean? It's like, you're walking away from it's not just like, you know, can I get, you know, a cool car that I've always wanted money like it's this is like generational money that you could potentially be walking away from. And when you think of it like that, it's it's hard. It's like, how does my happiness, does my mental health matter more than, you know, cinema, you know, or like having generational wealth, creating generational wealth to be I mean, I know that's very kind of cut and dry, but it's just the truth. And that's like, that's the hardest that was the hardest part was like, how much money am I walking away from here? But to me, it just if you're if you're going crazy, who it doesn't doesn't matter at all, how much money you have, you know, if you're if you don't want to get out of bed every day, or whatever it is, it just to me, it just taking care of yourself is the most important and having I'm so so thankful for my wife because she don't she don't care about money at all. And never have when I was I met her when I was I was broke and which is my favorite one of my favorite things about us. But yeah, I'm just very thankful for her because she don't she she would never ever ever put that kind of pressure on me ever. She she cares about me before anything else. So well, if it if it confirms your decision and I know everybody's in different circumstances, so zero judgment from our side on where you are, there's certain people that are in a trajectory of where they are with their income where they can't do anything but go out and work. And I respect that too. I respect the grind as much as I expect the break, but the break is hard to do, especially when you got momentum. But it can be important to do because I have had an opportunity to work with a lot of people who have done really well, vocationally and financially and in all kinds of industries. And I can I can tell you what the advantage they have when they see somebody like on site or us is that they hate have the means to do it. But beyond that, mental health doesn't discriminate based on socioeconomic position. Yeah, people get screwed up. Very do you know, but but the access is one one certainly one advantage that I wish was a little bit better across the board. However, I'm learning a lot about legacy. And I'm at the age now where I'm doing succession planning and setting up trying to get things out of my name, putting into a kid's name, setting up trust, all that stuff. And I've seen people do that at such a massive scale, where they spent most of their life building wealth and building trust. And they feel like their legacy is the opportunity that they'll give their kids based on their their financial position. And I don't doubt that that's true because they're practical things like college education and certain things, seed money to start something, whatever it might be. But at the end of the day, I will tell you when it comes to legacy relationships outweigh a trust all day, every day bar none, I've got 50,000 pieces of evidence through people I've seen navigated that I've never seen anybody regret investing more time in their relationships at any point in their career. I've seen a whole lot of people regret man, I wish I'd spent more time at home. It's like the death bed. You never nobody on the death bed ever said that they they wish they made a little more money. Right? Yeah. So hats off and hats off to your team too. I happen to know your team and the fact that they would support you. You know, I could see my because I you know, knowing all these relationships and sometimes when somebody comes through, there's a lot of eyes on it from a lot of stakeholders like I've had people come out want to quit before they're like, I'm done and their teams like what'd you guys do? But in your case, when you're like, I haven't got talked to my team, I was like, you got the right team to talk about because the way they have done it. You always say all those guys is they care as much about the human behind the art as they do about the commodity. And I think that's probably why y'all made such a splash, you know. Yeah, absolutely, man. And I'd say about friendships. I know we need to lay in the plane here. You've been super generous with your time. But one of the things I love from a guy who grew up on outlaw country from the 70s and 80s, the, you know, the guys I mentioned the highway man, but also George Jones and all those guys. And but you've got this new class, which you know, it's you and earn and Morgan and I jelly all these guys that are just a little left to center, you know, have a little bit outlawing you. And now I'm starting to see you all of you use your influence, you know, for good. And you hadn't lost your edge creatively. You hadn't lost the outlaw edge, which I think there's that's pretty cool because I grew up on that and I like it currently. Which I thought that nod you guys did to broke country and there was hilarious. But I think we're lucky to have y'all and to be able to watch guys like you and Morgan and all these guys kind of grow together, not not as art. You know, I know you all set the world on fire. It's what Morgan's done. It's absolutely crazy. And but to watch the human grow and to watch how you are staying friends through it all when each of you go through ups and downs and you're doing it out loud. I think there's a lot of people paying attention. And at the end of the day, I think you'll look back all y'all will look back and all the the records and the resources that come with it. It's the influence in the lives you're changing. I think that'll matter the most when the eight people hopefully get to stand around our bed when we call it quits. Dude, it's been a speaking to Morgan and I was thinking about this recently. They will never be anybody other than the guys that I met 10 years ago. And I feel the same that I will be that way to them. And it's just, I don't know, we just we all it's crazy, though. Yeah, I mean, Morgan and earn have kids in like kindergarten. Now, it's like, think of the time foolery we were up to, you know, five, six, seven years ago, compared to now, but it's it's been really cool. And Morgan is in such an awesome place. I'm so proud of him, dude. It's so great. And so is our never ever. We're just we're all we're all growing up, man. But it's it's really cool. And I appreciate you saying that it's I do. We're part of something really special. And we kind of caught the we came at a cool time in country where they they were they I think country needed a few, you know, kind of redneck kids to switch some stuff up. And and we just came at the right time. And it's just been really cool to be a part of one of the many, many turning points in country music, but to even be a small part in it is very cool. Well, like our buddy, Jelly got inducted into the opera unit was his that was his big, biggest dream he'd ever had since he was a kid. And I got to be there with him and help him celebrate that earned came in to do to honor him to was really cool. But he John Carter cashed the story that I pulled from that whole night was he came and he brought his dad's favorite necklace, the gold cross. And he said, I think my dad would have wanted you to wear this on stage tonight. And I'm a huge cash nut. I mean, that was my guy's my all time favorite. And so just see I was just in awe. I mean, I was having a moment. But he he's in in in Jelly's half the stage, he said, I still feel like when he was given tribute to Johnny and what he influenced him around, he said, I still feel like I'm somewhere between two middle fingers and living in the grace of Jesus Christ. And he's and and we forget because those what you remember about those guys at that era was some of the mess they made and some of the stuff they you know, they were just the outlaw guys. But cash was a deeply convicted guy who moved mountains and did a tremendous amount of charitable work influenced a whole lot of people. And you don't remember some of those stories. And it was neat to hear john his son recite some of those and I feel like you guys are headed in that same direction. So that's awesome, man. Well, dude, this was fun. Yeah, I enjoyed it. Yeah, I feel like it flew by, man. I know, I know. I looked at the clock over there and I think no, our time's already up by some other things I want to talk about, but we'll do those some other times. Anything else you want to share before we finish up? I don't know anything I'm supposed to. Yeah, just anxiety passes. Give it give it 20 minutes. It'll pass. There's what I always say, man. There's our sound by there's our sizzle right there. You guys can get through anything. Thanks, buddy. Great. I appreciate your brother. Yeah, thanks. Appreciate you too. That's human school. Keep showing up. Keep getting honest. If you like this episode, and if it was beneficial, if you don't mind leaving us a review that would really help us get more eyes and ears on our episodes so we can encourage more people. I'm Miles Ed Cox and I'll see you next time.