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It mixes easily with water or smoothies, making it simple, enjoyable routine that you can stick to every single day. Right now get 15% off the super elixir at wellco.com and use Kate Casey 15 at checkout. Try it for yourself and feel a difference within weeks. That's W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com code Kate Casey 15 at checkout for 15% off the super elixir. 15% off at W-E-L-L-E-C-O.com promo code Kate Casey 15. First time orders only. Welcome back for another episode of Reality Life with Kate Casey. Today I have a great sports documentary for you, but it's about a sport that you might not immediately think of as a sport. Chess doesn't look athletic in the traditional sense. There's no running, no cheering crowds, no sweat soaked jerseys. But at the highest levels it functions exactly like one. It's governed by an international federation recognized by the Olympic Committee, and played in high stakes competitions where endurance, preparation, nerves, and strategy decide who wins. Elite players train their bodies as well as their minds, spending hours locked in matches that demand extreme focus and stamina. And so sport where the physical effort happens quietly, inside the brain, and once you understand that, the story you're about to hear plays less like an intellectual curiosity and more like an all-time athletic achievement. Chess is one of the oldest games in the world. It is quiet, cerebral, and unforgiving. Two players sit across from each other with the same exact pieces, the same exact rules, and no luck involved. There's no referee you can charm, no weather to blame, no team to hide behind, you win or lose entirely on your own thinking. And for most of modern history, the people who win at the very highest levels of chess have been men, almost exclusively men, usually adults, and have spent decades studying thousands of games, memorizing patterns and learning to think 10, 20 moves ahead. Chess has long been held up as a pure test of intelligence, and for centuries the unspoken assumption was that men were simply better at it. Enter Judith Polgar. Judith was born in Budapest in 1976, the youngest of three sisters, into a family running what many people thought was a radical experiment. Her father believed geniuses are made, not born, and he decided chess would be the language through which his daughters would prove it. Judith learned the game almost as soon as she could read, and by the time most kids were learning multiplication tables, she was studying grandmaster games. And then something extraordinary happened. Judith didn't just become good at chess. She became better than almost everybody. As a child, she began defeating adult male grandmasters. Men would spend their entire lives playing this game, often in humiliating fashion. She became the youngest person ever to earn the title of grandmaster, breaking a record previously held by Bobby Fisher. She didn't compete in women's tournaments. She played in the open field against the best players in the world, period. And she beat them. World champions, legends, icons, and what made this so shocking wasn't just her gender, although that alone rattled the chess establishment. It was her age. Chess greatness is supposed to come with time and with maturity, with experience, but she rewrote that narrative entirely. She was fearless, aggressive, creative, and utterly uninterested in playing the way that she was supposed to. Her success forced the chess world to confront something deeply uncomfortable. Maybe the barriers that had kept women out of the top ranks weren't about ability at all, but access, encouragement, and belief. Rory Kennedy's documentary, Queen of chess, explores not just Judith's brilliance, but what are life and career reveal about gender power and who we decide belongs to the table? It's a story about a girl who shattered assumptions simply by being better than anyone thought possible and doing it younger than anyone ever had. And that's where we begin. Here is my interview with Rory Kennedy. Rory, it's so good to see you. This one came out of nowhere. I didn't expect it. I didn't know anything about chess, really. And I got totally sucked into the story. So first of all, welcome to the show. Thank you. It's great to be here with you. So first question, other gate is, how does this project come to you? Yeah. So I was approached along with my husband by a fellow producer who asked us if we would be interested in doing a documentary about Judith Polgar. And my first question was who was Judith Polgar. And then as I learned more about her and came to understand and appreciate that she was the number one female chess player in the world for 26 years. And then she was the only woman to ever have broken through the top 10 of all chess players that she had broken Bobby Fisher's record as becoming the youngest grandmaster at that point ever. And I was just kind of stunned that I had never heard of her. And then as I did more research about her kind of backstory and growing up in communist hungry and the challenges that she faced there in that country, as well as, you know, entering at a very young age into the chess world, which was very male dominated. And the difficulty she had in that and all the things she had to overcome. I was hooked basically. And I really felt like I wanted to tell this story. Well, I think the first thing that jumped out at me was the role of her father in her life. And he had read about, I think you said, like 40 different books on geniuses. And it come up with this pattern. And it was that geniuses typically begin whatever they end up in beginning at the age of five and do about eight to nine hours of work each day on that specific thing. And then I started to run through all the people in history that we've seen like the William sisters, for example, and their own talent. What struck you most in chasing that part of the early part of her origin story? Yeah, well, you're exactly right. She grew up with this father who, you know, they had very little limited resources. They grew up in pretty stark poverty in hungry during a communist regime. And they, you know, they were kind of really challenged, challenged in these circumstances. And this the father had done all of this research and concluded that geniuses were made. They weren't born. And they just had to focus on one activity. And Judith was the youngest of three sisters. And when the oldest sister was five years old, she was quite good at math and she was good at chess. So the dad looked at her and said, okay, which one of these do you want to do for the rest of your life? And she said, well, chess sounds fun. You know, let's do chess. And so the oldest sister started doing chess. And then the younger two sisters followed. And they played chess nine hours a day, every day at least and seven days a week. And they didn't celebrate birthdays. And they just focused on this one activity. And they were all three of these girls were incredible. And very accomplished chess players. And the oldest sister was also the number one chess player in the world for many years. And then Judith broke her records. But, you know, so it's sort of this fascinating origin story, which also I think shows sort of the challenges and all of the barriers that Judith had to overcome. The parents wanted to homeschool the kids to make sure that they were really focused on chess, right? And so the communist government didn't like that. They tried to throw the father and mother into jail. They tried to throw them in a mental hospital because they thought this was so crazy. You know, it was like it was very dire, difficult circumstances. And yet they endured. chess is such an internal and quiet sport. Did you have any fear translating that then on to screen? Well, yeah, I mean, it's ultimately, as we all know, as 64 squares with 32 pieces. But my experience in doing the research on the project and the film, the idea of a film, I was kind of at the edge of my seat, like both in terms of what's going to happen to Judith. And is she going to get out of these circumstances? And then also in these very specific games that she was playing where the stakes were so high and coming to appreciate, because I'm also not a chess player, but that everything can change with one move. And kind of understanding and appreciating and trying to then translate what those stakes are was both exciting to me. And also, I think, Ned Flix, who we partnered with early on and ourselves were on the same page that this could have the potential to be kind of a like edge of your seats. What's going to happen next kind of film? Really exciting and kind of a sports film. And so we really leaned into that and tried to translate it for audiences like myself in ways that would make it exciting and thrilling. Well, there's that one moment where Gary's playing against Ernie who lifts his hand. And you get this understanding of like this big moment in the history of chess. Was it hard for you to get access to some of that archival footage? I would say that one of the more challenging things about this film was the archive. It was, you know, to so much of the story unfolds behind the Iron Curtain in the 1980s and to some degree the late 70s, but mostly the 80s. And to track down the footage to figure out who the source was, to get that in-house and all the rest was very, very difficult. Thankfully, Judith's father and family had documented a lot of what had happened to the family. And so we were able to also share this archive that's never been shown before, which was kind of exciting, but it was a challenge. And, you know, I didn't want to make a film that just kind of was a march through time and just said, you know, and then this happened to Judith. And then this happened to Judith, but to make people feel like they are really on the journey with Judith and right beside her. And so to do that, I really needed to bring in the footage of those times and these moments that we were capturing. But thankfully, we had an incredible archive team. And I think we're able to get a huge amount of very rich material that I hope will make people feel like, you know, they're right beside her as these events unfold. Well, I absolutely felt that, but I also felt like the music added a lot to it. And some of the music I thought, I haven't even heard that song, where is that from? So did you have a team of people that are just scouring for songs? Yeah, well, we, I mean, as I appreciate you pointing out the music and as you probably noted, we used to go to a amount of kind of punk rock and a lot of girl band punk rock. And I really like that both because I think it creates like some natural energy to the film, but also because sort of like Judith, these female punk rockers kind of parallel her life in that it's kind of the same time zone, but also it's it's unexpected. It's like these, you know, punk rock is so associated with kind of male attributes and and male bands. And then these girl bands kind of come in with such a force and confidence and moxie and are kind of unexpected in the scene of that. And it's kind of nicely parallels Judith's stories. So I combine that with a more kind of classical almost kind of a waltz-y, yeah, feel with our composers who were from bleeding fingers and were really fantastic. And I think somehow these two different styles of music mesh together and they I don't know how they work. Yeah, but they sort of they I feel like they just kind of work strongly, but we worked with Randy poster and Megan Carrier who were our music supervisors and then our edit team also had really strong kind of music backgrounds and so everybody contributed. So when we talk about Gary, he's almost this mythical figure. How did you approach filming or referencing him and then not letting his lendjid kind of overwhelm the story? Yeah, well, you know, first of all, Judith, as we talked about in the beginning of the conversation has all of these extraordinary accomplishments, right? These benchmarks that she met, that very few or actually really no other female has ever met. And so she was so kind of extra extraordinary in these ways, but I think for her and what I came to really appreciate when I interviewed her and the people around her is that kind of what motivated her like she's a fighter, you know, and she wants to get in the ring with the very best like she wants to go take on Muhammad Ali like she doesn't want to just walk away with a trophy. She's like she wants to get in the ring and that's kind of her nature and so I wanted to make a film that kind of was in the ring with her and the person who you know, who she admired more than anybody and who she looked at up to when she was five, six, seven years old and watched every game they ever played was Gary Cass Roth and you know, and then she had these opportunities to kind of engage with him in the ring and those were some of the more thrilling matches. So part of the reason that, you know, I narratively set the film up to be more focused on that storyline is both because it's kind of narratively more of a draw and a focus and makes it more exciting but also I think actually reflects who she is, who she is and who her character is and was able to tease that out. Also they have as you saw from the film kind of this fascinating unexpected storyline that intersects in all of these like super interesting ways that range from this first interaction which was very dramatic and sort of one of the bigger more controversial moments in the history of chess and then also involves some like, you know, being on a banana boat together. Right, I mean, it's just it's it's an unexpected kind of twist in turns that was also drew me to the story. Well, it's also just kind of emblematic of like just the unique nature of the sport. I mean, it's just what I love so much about documentary filmmaking is it really just takes you and gives you a window into someone's life that's totally dissimilar to yours. It's just you're getting to walk through their shoes and it does feel like throughout this film that she's just looking around all the time like, can you believe this? Like, what is going on? Like, what is happening to me? Yeah, no, she's on she's just on this wild ride but she leans into it and she's fantastic and we just went to Sundance together where the film premiered up in the mountains of Utah and she was such a great sport and just, you know, soaked in all of it and just just loved it all and people were so digging, meeting her and we had this really wonderful kind of last minute thing that we pulled together with Judith playing Alec Baldwin in a real-life chess match at Sundance and Judith Polger was blindfolded and Alec was not and it was a very entertaining experience, I think, for everybody involved. I wondered when you're filming someone who's training borders, you know, on obsession, how do you decide when it's character building versus potentially self-destructive? Well, you know, I think it's a good question for Judith, honestly, but of course it's something I've explored with her. I think that she, I mean, I think for Judith and if you look back at what the opportunities were for her in the circumstances that she grew up and like, I don't know any other path out of communism in Hungary during the 1980s than the path that she pursued. Like, you know, at age 12 she was traveling around the world, she was going to New York, she was going to Australia, she was going to Greece, she was going, you know, in ways and places that she could, there's no way she could have afforded it and also there was just such restrictions in terms of where people could go and how you could, how you could, how you could do that. I mean, you know, there were two different passwords and you could get a passport to go to communist countries much easier. If you, you know, and you were only given $50, you couldn't spend more than $50 if you left the country. I mean, there were these like extreme restrictions that just made it very hard. So I think for her looking back at her life, she feels like this was an extraordinary gift. And then I think she also feels like she was so lucky to be able to have that time with her father where it was just the two of them and they would play this game together that she felt was so magical and he was so excited about it and kind of shared that enthusiasm. So she was excited about it. So she doesn't talk about it like it was a burden or and also, you know, anytime if they, the kids wanted to stop doing it, they could. Like it was, they weren't being forced to do it, but they really, I think, came to love it. And then at different times, they, you know, decided to sort of move away from it. But so I think for her, it was a great opportunity that said, like her, she and her sisters, all of kids and none of them have been raised in the same way. Yeah. It feels to me. And I think for many people that we're living through pretty dark times right now. And there's a lot of challenges that individuals were facing and the world is facing right now. And I do think that there's something about this story that I find both, you know, enormously heartening and uplifting in this, in this moment in history and then also inspiring. And I think that, you know, Judith says something in the film about, you know, even when things feel like it's a losing battle, one move can change everything, you know, and can change it all from just looking so grim to looking so hopeful, right? And to kind of, and that idea of like, okay, I feel a little challenging or tough right now, but there may be one move that we can all make and it could all shift and change. And then as individuals who are facing our own challenges, that that could be true for them as well. So, um, and for each of us. So in it, I don't know, I think there's there's a good amount of inspiration. And then of course, you know, I do hope this film appeals to women and men, of course, I do think there is something in it that women can particularly relate to in terms of the challenges that that women have and breaking through and being treated on equal grounds. And I think that, um, with Judith's story, again, there's real inspiration there. Especially for younger women, I mean, this, you've just opened maybe young chess players to a whole new world. And that may not have happened if they had not seen this documentary. So I hope that you go back and let your team know that those of us that get the pleasure of watching this are very appreciative of the work that they did and how much it's meaningful to the people that get to watch it. Thank you for saying that. I will be sure to relay it. Well, Queen of chess is on Netflix. I think you did an outstanding job. And I'm grateful as always for the work that you do. Thank you. Thanks for having me on. I really enjoy talking to you. And I appreciate the work you do. Thank you. Okay. I want to thank my wonderful guest, Marie Kennedy, and remind you to make sure that you click subscribe. Please leave a five star review, join the Facebook group reality life with K K C. You can get bonus episodes on Apple podcast and on Patreon at PATREON.com. Backslash K K C. Do not miss out on those. And my weekly What to Watch list is available at K K C dot subs, stack dot com. I'm going to tell you what to watch each week. And finally, follow me on social media. I'm on Instagram at K K C C Tick Tock. It's K K C and Twitter threads in blue sky at K K C. Check back tomorrow for an all new episode.
