Reginald Hudlin | Boomerang

Hi, I'm Reggie Houtland. I'm a filmmaker, right? Comic books, all kinds of things. And you'll hear about it when you watch and listen to me and Sean Stockman on that note. I don't know. There may be something better you can do, but I don't think so. I think this is the best thing you can do right now. Just just tune in. Welcome everybody to another episode of on that note. This is the place where we speak in language. We all understand. And that is music. My guest today is a mid-winter West native. East St. Louis to be exact. And one of the most successful and influential directors, screenwriters and producers in cinematic history. He's the man behind the cult classic house party. The movie that helps spark the on screen careers of Kid and Play, Robin Harris, Martin Lawrence, and Tisha Campbell, as well as the blockbuster rom com Boomerang, starring Eddie Murphy, Halle Berry, Robin Givens, and Chris Rock. That movie also featured the musical scoring prowess of legendary bases and friend of the show, Mr. Marcus Miller. Link to that episode will be at the end of this one. So make sure you guys watch this. And it featured one of the greatest movie sound tracks of all time, executive produced by LA Read and Kenny Babyface Edmonds under their legendary label imprint LaFace Records, which included a history making record breaking song performed by some vocal group from Philadelphia. Hey. You don't look it up. Boys to men. Look it up. Look it up. He's also produced or directed for other works like the Boondocks. It relaxes going to be a long one. I'm grateful. Okay. All right. The Boondocks, Black Panther, the BET animated series, Modern Family, the Bernie Mac show, are we there yet? And the proud family, louder and prouder, just to name a few because I didn't list everything. We'd be here all day. He also served as president of entertainment at BET. He was also a major figure in Marvel Comics from 2005 to 2008 as the chief writer for the Black Panther comic book series. We're going to talk a lot about that. His run at Marvel is considered one of the most influential since Dan Lee and Jack Kirby. In 2015, he was elected to the board of governors of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the producer's branch. He has been instrumental in diversifying the Academy's membership. His creative work is known for elevated portrayals of black success, romance and culture, clean, stylish, visual tone, strong character driven storytelling, blending comedy with social commentary, championing black talent in front of and behind the camera. He's considered one of the key architects of modern black Hollywood. I really could go on and on, but then we wouldn't be able to hear from the man himself. He is a brother, a husband, a father, and one of the most brilliant minds ever to be behind a camera or to put pen to paper. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up Reginald Allen Huddland, aka Reginald Huddland. Yeah, I did the whole government. You did, I am grateful man. I don't know. Yeah, I did do all that. You did a lot. You did a whole lot. I'm still working through, you know, you have a list of things you want to do. So I'm almost done with my 12 year old list. And then I'm going to go to the 25 year old list. Oh, you have that already. You have it. It's not written down, but in your head of my head, I want to do that. I want to do that. And when it got really clear to me, about midway through my career, I looked at what I'd done. I worked at what worked, what didn't work so well. What didn't work so well? You know, I made some movies that didn't really hit, and hit doesn't just mean box office. It means to impact the culture, right? Okay. And I said, okay, what's the pattern? What's the pattern of success? What's the pattern of, of didn't really resonate? And the ones that hit were absolutely driven by passion. Like, I've got to do that. I will die if I don't do this, right? And if you have that added to, that gives you the 110% it takes to succeed. Right. The other stuff, those are the smart moves. If you don't have the passion, it ain't going to hit right. Right. So I said, oh, then this is a very simple filter. Yeah. Only do what you are passionate about. Right. If you do that, it's going to work. Okay. And I have found that to be true when I first started moving into television. Yeah. Right. People were like, but wait, you're this bit successful filmmaker. Where are you doing in TV? Yeah. TV is important. TV is, and they were like, I don't get it. And then everybody moved in the television. They were like, oh, wait, oh Netflix is the new movie. Right. If you don't like, if you don't, I'm saying like 1000. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, television is the dominant artistic medium, I would say right now. More than movies, more than music, more than anything. Yeah. And then us, you're writing combos. They were like, oh my god, you're a comic book guy now. I'm like, I love comic books. I always have. That's why I do all these other things. Right. From growing up reading comics. And then after, right, I, you know, I had this meeting with Marvel and I came back to us. I said, I'm writing Black Panther. And I go, that's great. Who was that? Are you serious? None of my friends knew who he was. Except for the other heads of the company. Right. So then the book comes out. And then the movie comes out. And everyone's like, how did you know? I said, I knew because I love this. I love this medium. I love these characters. So I'm just doing, I'm just taking action out of love. Yeah. So when everyone goes, oh, wow, now we get it. I'm like, yeah, because I got it. Yeah. And I expressed my vision of this character and everyone resonated with it. And it just create this ripple effect that led to a billion six. Wait, wow. But wait, we're going to, we're going to get ahead of ourselves. Because we're going to get into that because I want to get into some black characters that I think you would be amazing at bringing to light and creating an actual platform for them to be seen. Because Marvel had a lot of black superheroes. Yeah, well, yes. That didn't get as just due for obvious reasons. Right. But I think the world is a little more, I guess, primed to, I guess, accept it and possibly ingest the idea of a superhero being melanated. You know, saying like, you know, I, you know, it took this long, but I think the world could be ready. Well, thanks to T'Challa. Here's the one. It's the world's been ready. That's not the issue, right? The issue is people, again, pattern recognition, right? The challenge and it could be movies, it can be television, it'd be coming books. People go, wow, isn't that surprising? And I go, no, it's not surprising. Well, why aren't you surprised? Because this thing, this type of thing that you're shocked by has been successful every time it's been done. Right. But I get it. It's not a thing you're checking for. But I am, you know, because I have an investment in this. Yes. And I, like, the whole first half of my career was people saying, well, you know, there's, you know, we don't know how much this idea of yours is going to succeed. We don't know who the audience is. We don't know how to spend, how much to spend on making it. How do we market it? I don't get when executives say that. Don't you have R&D? Like, don't you have an actual group of humans that you pay that once you invest in a particular product or some level of entity, you do that's that's standard, right? You would think that's part of the, the, the protocol of acquiring, you know, an asset. Like, you, you do the R&D. You do the research. Okay, we have this thing. How are we going to make money off of it? Well, a couple of things. I mean, the beauty of music or comic books is that the level of investment is pretty low. Okay. Right. So even better. Right. So which is why those two artistic mediums have had a lot of progressive movement, depending on whether the creators and the executives would say, yes, we can brace that. So Stan Lee would just have progressive guy period. Right. So, you know, and they would just checking out trends. So if you look at those early, oh, I know you have, you know, the first appearance of Black Panther in Fantastic Four, right. You look at how Jack Kirby drew to Chattano. He looks like Sydney, party eight. Interesting. And if you've never been met, Sydney, party eight in person, like when I first came to Hollywood and I was at this party, and Sydney party eight was there. And unfortunately, my dad was visiting. So I introduced my dad to Sydney, party eight. Sydney party is like eight feet tall, right? Is he that, was he that tall? I've never met. He's and his posture is perfect. And then he has the voice and he has the look. So you go, whoa, you're literally a king, right? I mean, you know, it's not even like, wow, he's a, you're like, oh, you are everything you appear to be on. There was a regalness about him. It, yes, it was regal is the only phrase. And so I introduced him to my dad. And then he looks at my father goes, these are your sons, because it was me and my brother goes, I said, he says, yes, he goes, I hate you. Look at you. You're more handsome than me. You're richer than me. You have these sons. And my father was so flattering. He floated away. Like, what? That's how you do it. That's how to be a star for real. That generosity, that elegance, outtell that story for the rest of my life. That's amazing. Right. So, and because like, that's the gold standard. Yeah. It's classy. It's moral. It's elegance. It's giving. Yeah. And so, yeah, that's the black panther. Yes, that is. Right. So, so they took what was happening in movies in 1967. Sydney party A was the biggest box office star in the world. He has three number one movies in the same year. Wow. I didn't know that. That I didn't know. I didn't know that black man was the biggest box office star. When you got in the heat of the night. Right. Right. Uh, guess who's coming to dinner? Yeah. Guess who's coming to dinner and um, to start with love. You're right. Okay. So, you hit three times that hard. You're the number one box office star on the planet. That's 1967. Now, this is after he's already won an Oscar, the first black man to win an Oscar in 62. Right. So, he's bigger than a movie star. Right. He's literally changing the impression of black people on a global basis. Yes. Andrew Young said this great line is uh, he said, yeah, he won an Oscar, but he should have won a Nobel Peace Prize. How about that? Because anyone who changes the global perspective of a group of oppressed people. That's a seismic cultural event. 100%. That is crazy. Well, you know what? Let's, let's, let's, let's not get off of track here because there's a lot to cover. Yes. But let's go back first. I like to do a segment called we gonna go back way back back in the time. Right. All right. Uh, um, yeah, who did that original? No, no, no, um, Jimmy Kaster. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. I did go. So I have to play the bass line. You play pretty good. That sounded good. No, you play great finger bass. Let me tell you something. I'm crushing you by an air guitar. I got wind to hold it. Yeah. Just don't put an actual instrument in my hands. That was pretty good though. Every time I'm in the studio with Marcus and we're working on a score, I'll grab one of his bases. And now it's just, but he just knows it. He is. And let me just put this one out here. Right. Right. Because I'm plugging. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, we don't want to hear what I'm doing. Right. Right. Right. It's just like, I'm close to this much greatness. Can I just, well, well, that's the thing, right? I think this is what, this is why I'm going to ask because you went the route of being, you know, a screenwriter in in a director, but you had to be inspired musically by something or someone. So let's go back to when you're about 10 years old. Yes. That's like 1971. What was the music that was being played around your house? Like, you know, what did you and Warren to listen to? Like what, what were the songs that inspired you? Right. Well, I'm the youngest of three boys. Okay. Right. So, and I always feel like being the youngest is an incredible advantage. 100%. I'm the youngest too. Yeah. So you're peeping your parents game. It's iffy. It's iffy. I'm going to, I'm going to make this case and I defy you to challenge. Okay. I will. I will. And I will. I will. Please. I'm not just saying. Yeah. I might be with him on it. Well, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So you peep your parents game and you peep the game of your older siblings. Right. So and you're getting whatever you're getting from your peers. Yeah. So musically, my dad was very hardcore big band. Okay. Like for him, it was like, okay, I'm good up to Duke Ellington. And there was an asterisk for Stevie Wonder. Like, I don't know. There's other stuff you're listening to, but Stevie's good. Okay. Okay. I see. And I'm hearing it all the time because that's when he's playing, but it's not until I'm in college, right? Where the penny drops. And I go home and I go, Dad, where's all that music I hate? Where's that Nancy Wilson? Where's where's that Duke Ellington? I get it. My ears weren't grown enough to get it early, but it was played against my will. And then out of a sudden, you go, that's genius. Right. So I get that. My mom, who up until she was into her mid 60s, rose skated every week. Oh, right. Right. That was the thing. So she's keeping up with the Marvin Gaye and the earth went afire and all that. Right. So her ears are a little more contemporary. Right. So she's rocking what we're rocking. Right. And to finally, we got to the other place because I mean, I love, loved and still love every genre of music. I have the biggest ears I could possibly develop. Yeah. But for me, Paul, I'm in front of Delic and Earth went afire. Got you. That's my Beatles Rolling Stone. Okay. Right. And it's just not bad at all. Right. And it's just like, oh my god, this is everything. Yeah. And so those were giant pivotal artists. And the thing is I was such a funk snob. Yeah. That like when first, when cameo first came out, I was like, you're okay. Oh, what? I was that dude. You know how in hip hop, you have to like super snobbs. Yeah. I was that 20 years before then. But did you like cameo when they were doing songs like sparkle and here's what here's when it flipped for me. Okay. Right. Was when they dropped, I just want to be okay. Because if that old nothing to pee funk, it was like, and it was the summer. Yeah. And I was spending the summer in New York with my brother and went to the West Indian, they pray and every pair of giant speakers was like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. And then candy came out. Yeah. And candy's not even fair. You had to acquiesce after that. Oh, candy is like, that's a, that's a easy top 10 funk record. Yeah. And to say think about to be a top 10 funk record, means you're competing with James Brown, prolement funk, a deli. I mean, there's so many beasts in the category. Yeah. But candy is, is beyond. It's a nuclear bomb. It's a nuclear bomb. That's a forever classic. Right. So you got all that. But I'm also because I've older brothers. I'm hearing the last poets. I'm hearing Gil Scott here. I'm hearing Roberta Flack. I'm hearing all the great music of that era. Yeah. And they were bringing home like blood, sweat, and tears. Right. And you're hearing and blood, sweat, and tears in Chicago. Yeah. All those super soulful white acts. Right. Yeah. I mean, Chicago was next level. It's best. Before they went pop. Right. Yeah. But, but that like Chicago transit authority. Yeah. That out alone. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Does anybody know what time it is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pete Chicago for us. Yeah. Yeah. It's early Chicago. Yeah. I mean, here's what I, I'm never going to hate on a group that figures out like how to win, win, in terms of just making the big ass pop records. Like dude, I know your life has been. You just been on the road doing the damn thing. Right. You see people who are half of your talent and they're eating good. So like, so when you hit, what's that bullshit? I don't know. Hey, hey, yeah. Relax. Yeah. Right. Knock it off. I'm here. Here's the thing. George Benson is a brilliant guitarist. Right. Yes. And then somebody convinced him to sing. Yeah. And he dropped this mask array. Yeah. Who's man? Anybody man? How about this? A lot of people were. Because, because, people that knew George as the brilliant jazz virtuoso got mad because he got mad because he crossed over. He went pop. So a lot of people the same thing with Miles Davis. Miles Dave. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when Miles started playing more progressive jazz and stuff like that, the the purist hated. What are the purists never want the artists to get to the bad? Bro, why do they hate that so much? Because if they hate, here's the, there are too many people who somehow say, well, if you, I'd like you when you were my little secret. Mm-hmm. Right. But wait, the masses like you? Well, I'm not down with the masses. So if you are now having broad appeal, then I don't like you. It's a hip thing. Because taboo talked about the little bit with like, joints and jams, like IPs, and then they did wears the love in this massive global hit and people hated the the the the the the the haters. Yeah. I was the viewer massive hit. A lot of people who love you. And I'm just like, well, you're the purist. Well, obviously, I haven't issues with that. Right. Exactly. But that's okay. I mean, that's a thank-out for the purists when you, you know, first, you know, whatever that phase is. And for me, I mean, look, since we talking Miles Davis now, from me, St. Louis. Yeah. His his mother cut third grade at our school. That's crazy. Are you serious? Yeah. And was she your teacher? No, because my school got destroyed before I got to third grade. Which made it got destroyed. Well, East St. Louis is where all the train tracks cross, like literally, if you want to get north, south, east, west, it's a crisscross, right? So one early one morning, two trains with liquid fuel collided. Are you kidding? And every window in the city blew out. And people's walls were falling. All this stuff. Wow. And the roof of my 100 year old school fell in. Right. So all those kids were displaced. Yeah, all the kids were displaced. My mother was like, great. Because the schools in our town are horrible. Oh, wow. And now we're going to send Reggie to a private school. Would turned out to be the right call. Yeah. So yeah, I'd never got Miss Davis. Who everybody said was mean. This is how working out right, right? Well, if she was anything like her son or her son, was anything like her mother? Like, you know, miles had a reputation. We had a reputation. But here's the thing. But miles has so many great quotables. But one of them is jazz is the music that fits the day. Right? Meaning it's like, well, what does today call for musically? That's what you play. How about that? Right. So don't be stuck in the moment. Be stay in the now. So miles' attitude was, hey, it's time to keep changing. And one of the, you know, miles change the direction of music five times. That's what yes. That's people know. No, I don't know that because I'm not that. Yeah, sophisticated. I just know what I like. Yes. That's right. He's changed jazz multiple times. Right. So the thing is he's like, no, look, I've taken acoustic jazz as far as I can take it. Right. Intumate said that. Right. After fact. And he was like, look, we had nowhere else to go except electronically. Yes. True. Right. So now we have to, we got to go to a new place. And yes, people like, no, but I like that sound. It's like, yes, I respected you like that sound. I like it too. But he has to go in a new direction because he hears it and wants to go there. That's right. And you can stay in the same place. And maybe you can maintain or maybe you just get stale in corny. And maybe in reaching for a new sound, you fail. Yeah. And that's the risk of a great artist. So when Marvin Gaye, who's, you know, Mr. Loveman at Motown does what's going on, which Barry Gordie hated. Right. He was like, this ain't a hit. What are you doing? And they had to sneak the record and they played it in New York, right? On the DL, the phone lines lit up. There was, oh, okay, it's a hit. Let's go for it. Right. Look, Barry Gordie made a million decisions. And the vast majority of them were right. If you make that many decisions, yeah, yeah. You could be wrong. Some family like, come on. Yeah. But, uh, but the, but the point is Marvin stretched and could have failed. And he didn't. Yeah. And whenever people do that, I really respect that they had the ambition and they actually executed. Yes. It is, is not for those, not for the weak hearted. No, it's not. It's definitely not because you really put your neck out then and you could get it chopped off. In the movie business, they really, I mean, the safest thing is to be a brand. Yeah. Right. If you're Alfred Hitchcock, oh, I know what an Alfred Hitchcock movie he's gonna scare us. Right. I'm in. Good evening. Exactly. And Spielberg was spectacle. Right. A lot of my inspirations go further back than that. Yeah. Like there was a director Howard Hawks. Okay. Right. Howard Hawks would just switch it up. Like if you're into Westerns, then you know Red River is one of the greatest westerns ever made. But then he would switch up and do his go Friday. Which is to me one of the funniest movies ever made. Wow. And you just go, oh my god. Wait a minute. You got you that, that kind of slip. Yeah. Yeah. Or you look at Rob Reiner in a more modern way. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So I was like, wow, that's what I want to do. Because it's like, there's all these different. I didn't want to just do one style. Right. So I did House Party, right. Which is a teen comedy. Yeah. That was fun. And they were like, well, let's do a sequel. That was like, okay. I see how I could make six movies like House Party. Yeah. But I don't want that to be my next movie. Sure. So then when Eddie Murphy called and said, hey, I got this romantic comedy, I'm like, first of all, I was like, Eddie Murphy called me, right. Which I couldn't even imagine it. Don't wait for mine. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Right. Because here's the thing. I was like, wait, Eddie Murphy was on surname live. But I had a bedtime. Right. Right. But we're the same age. Right. But I'm like, so how, how is this a thing? Right. Yeah. And he was one of the biggest stars in the world. Yes. And he's calling me like, let's you know, we'll talk about that. So he just out of the blue calls, the office or like, what is this call? Yeah. I get this call. Eddie Murphy's calling. What? And then like, and he goes, hey, man, I like what you're doing. Like, you know how to go for the joke. And that was, that's the gold standard for him. Right. Do you know how to go for the joke as a director, as an actor? What does he mean by that specifically? Yeah. Break that down. Yes. I mean, there's Aussie a lot of parts to making a movie, depending on what kind of movie you're making. Yeah. Right. If you're doing a horror film, do you know how to deliver a jump scare? Right. You know, if you're making a, a, a mystery or a spy movie, you need, do you know how to deliver suspense? Yes. And if you're making a comedy, do you know how to go for the joke? Can you actually make people laugh? Do does the way you direct the movie? Does that support the actor who's delivering the laugh? Or can you shoot it in the way that delivers a laugh? Yeah. You know, like the Corn Brothers, like a movie I saw that I shamelessly stole from was raising Arizona. Okay. Right. Because I was like, this has so much style. Yeah. And all that beautiful style is in service of incredible comedy. And I'm like, right. Sure. Got it. So, so directors do that. Like they, they see, they see and steal. Yeah. Yeah. Who don't? I mean, like, I mean, as they say, you know, um, you know, you can phrase it or, oh, you're inspired by whatever the language is, it is, it is, it was just a music thing. No, no, no, no, no, but that's forms. Painters, yeah, every medium, we just talked about Kobe and Michael Jordan. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Oh my god. I had got to switch for once I grew that. When my son was little, right? Of course, you know, they ask questions like, who's the greatest basketball player? Oh, Lord. So I say, I said, Jordan. So he sits on my lap. We pull up YouTube. And I'm sure all these, uh, Jordan clips. And then they have those clips with Jordan and Kobe or side by side. And they're literally, you know, the mood exactly like. So he watches that. Then I said, okay, we got to go to the barber shop, right? So we're in the barber shop and we have a spectacular barber shop, right? Uh, so, and it's a classic barber shop. Right. So they're having this gigantic Kobe versus Jordan debate. And the, now my son is literally on the on the booster seat, right? That's how little he is. So they're baked debate and debate. And then he goes, but, right, isn't Kobe just a Xerox of Jordan? And my barber goes, say it again. And he says he goes, for the mouth of the beans. And from that point on, my son was in the cipher at the barber shop. It was, he was welcome to the show. When we going back, no, and here's the thing. And like, we still go, right? Every Saturday, we go to the barber shop. So one day we were leaving the barber shop and he said, that the barber shop is the most consistent part of the week. Like there's never a bad hour at the barber shop. Never. Never. That is, that is really the tribunal for all black men. We go there and get our information. We get our news. We got a bougie. I got the barber to come to the house now. So I got to go, I got to go back to the barber shop. Right. Sometimes you got to know that's the true. It's funny to Sean. You got to barber that. But you know what? It's funny when I go to Philly. Like my barber, when he's not cutting out here, he works at the barber shop. Yeah. So I'll go there. Yeah, I didn't get found out for a while. I would just go in ear jack. I wouldn't talk. Right. I'm just listening, listening, listening for inspiration. Yeah. Just to see what what what's the temperature? What's the buzz? What's happening? Where where are where is everybody? It's one of the epicenters of culture. Right. So I got found out I had been offered the job at BT. And the whole negotiation period, I didn't even leave the house because everybody was talking about it. Everybody was like, oh, I got the job. I got the job. I didn't want to I didn't want to have a conversation about it. Right. Until the deal was done, it was a lot. I just stayed in the house. Right. So finally, the deal was done. And we were getting ready to do it. A big announcement. So I had to get a haircut because I looked like the wolf man, right. So I go to the barber shop and there's someone sitting in the chair. You know, and I have an appointment. I'm like, who is that? They spin the chair around. It's Tracy Morgan. Are you serious? It goes, right. I heard you run a beach. Red, I heard you was going to be on BT. Right. And I'm out. I'm out. And the whole barber shop for real. Right. So now they're just asking questions. Yeah. What's your going to do? And there's asking me, are you going to do what are you going to do about this? What are you going to do about that? And I'm just like listening because they're telling me what they I'm not answering anything. Right. Right. Right. But they're basically telling me what they want. That's dope. No, I mean, so I did what they told me to do. That's crazy. And I'll go to the barber shop in a strange town. If I'm shooting in Savannah, Georgia or Buffalo, New York, I will find that barber shop, you know, that's that's it. And it's risky because it's a different barber cutting your hair. Right. And nobody wants that. Right. Right. But I'm like, it's worth it. But you're not there just for the haircut. No. Yeah. You know what? You mentioned Miles Davis's mother being a teacher in your neighborhood. Yeah. And I've always been interested since I've been doing his podcast, how close proximity to greatness, my guests have been around. Like I've had guests that had was neighbors that were legendary big band directors and all kinds of us. Well, I lived around the corner from this guy. Yeah. Kwame grew around grew up around everybody. For example, and I just wanted to ask because speaking of, you know, family and pedigree, is it true that you're descend, you're a descendant of Peter Huddlin and his wife Nancy. Yes. Okay. Who are part of the Underground Railroad? Correct. That was a great, great, great grandparents. Yeah. I mean, it was, they were, right. They were the first, they were one of the first stops once you get past the Mason Dixon line. It was more, but I'm, I'm, I'm gonna let you tell the story. He was black. She was Cherokee. And, you know, they were, they were, I mean, Aussie, that is as dangerous. How's about to say a thing as anything? Have you heard any stories about what your great grandfather did and, and how he, he basically executed whatever he needed to do to free those particular slaves? I don't have any details about that, but here's the other thing I knew, but I had to talk to a historian, Henry Lewis Gates, who helped me find out more. He was also in this group called The Knights of Tabour. And I was like, what's that? Yeah. What's that? So I told it to Henry Lewis Gates and he says, let's look it up. And in 10 minutes, he said that was a revolutionary group that was going to enslave me by overthowing the government. And the Civil War broke out, so they were like, oh, it's, it's a handle. We're okay. We're okay. We're good. But I was just like, and there, and we started researching The Knights of Tabour. And you're like, wow. So yeah, that's, I never heard of this either. Right. Well, and we shouldn't. If you're a secret organization, the government, you're not supposed to hear about it. Yeah. Right. But yeah. So that's that's very far back. Yeah. Right. Then his Richard Huttland did a lot of things. He was a newspaper reporter for the white paper for the for the St. Louis Globe Democrat. And he was what I've been told is that he was sending the articles in so they didn't know his black. Right. He also wrote for a German language paper because he grew up near German town in St. Louis. So he spoke German. Yes. Your greatness makes sense now. No, that's what I'm saying. Like, I'm telling you, it's it's pedigree, man. Like, it's something about and this is just what I've discovered. Like a lot of people that are of an exceptional level of whether it's intellect or, you know, they have lineage. Right. Like, I mean, even that I want to ask is it true that your great uncle Richard A. Huttland was mentor and tennis instructor for Arthur Ash and out there Gibson. Yeah. Because there weren't that many black players on that level. Yeah. So when you got to that level, they sit you to St. Louis. Right. Because he taught at some of their high school. And there's this thing. There's there's this era where they started building high schools and cities that were the black high schools. But they were the equivalent of an HBCU today. Wow. Right. The teachers were excellent. Yeah. They raised great students. For example, they're good Marshall went to one of those schools in Baltimore. And everyone talks about, you know, Cass and Detroit. You know, there's certain, you know, black high schools you hear about. Yeah. Because they raised champions. You touched on Theragood Marshall. Yeah. You did a movie. Yes. Called Marshall. Yes, sir. Starring Chad with Boseman. And yeah. T'Challa. And that was before he was T'Challa. Exactly. Well, a couple of things. One for me. And Rest in Peace. And Rest in Peace. Theragood for me was one of my three great heroes. Right. Everybody loves Martin Luther King. Everybody loves Malcolm X. Right. But Theragood was the third leg of the stool. Right. Martin Luther King forced change from the outside. Martin Luther King, I mean, Malcolm X built a sense of self-work. Yes. Right. Theragood made it law. He was the infrastructure. If you don't make it a law, what do you do with nothing? Right. So you need all three. Yes. To really enact the change that we need. Yes. And I, you know, I'd always felt that even though Theragood respected and revered, I thought he needed more shine. Sure. But I never thought I could get a movie layman made. So a producer, friend of mine, came to me and said, hey, I got this Theragood Marshall script. And I read the script and I flipped because the movie wasn't about Brown versus Board of Education. Which I thought would be not as interesting to audiences because we know the outcome. Right. This was him before he became a Supreme Court justice and all that. This was a very little known case. But it was a great case because there was this guy in Connecticut who was the chauffeur for the very wealthy white family. He was being accused of rape. And Theragood had to prove the case. But the judge in Connecticut wouldn't let him speak in the courtroom. So he found this Jewish attorney. He says, look, let's do the case together. You speak and I'll figure out the strategy. Right. So they came together to win this case. But he had to win it essentially with both hands, type of hands back. One of the greatest orators, but he can't talk. Right. And it was also I liked it because it was that's crazy. There's so many certain stories that sound like fake. They sound like a baby should core representing herself when she was facing like 400 years in prison. Yeah. For, you know, the conspiracy and all the stuff. And she beat the case. It's just a test to make right. And that's that brilliance. So yeah. And the thing is that brilliance. But what I love about what I also loved about the movie, it was in Connecticut. Because we know Southern racism. Yeah. He right. But don't act like, oh, right. It was all good. It's all good. Absolutely not. It was just worse. Yeah. Right. It's just like they put a veneer on it. Right. Right. You know, there's no draw. Yeah. I lived in Philadelphia. So trust me. Right. So exactly. So I've so for all those reasons, I loved it. Right. Yeah. So I'm looking at this. I'm like, who can play Theragood Marsh? Yeah. It was Chadwick your first choice? Yeah. Because I mean, here's the thing. Obviously, it done 42. You know, um, you know, James Brown, I mean, he's brilliant. I mean, and his thing about Chadwick, he was such an extraordinary human being on every level. Yeah. Right. His intelligence, his morality, his integrity. Yeah. Honestly, if you want to say who was the closest to Sydney Portier, Chadwick Boltzmann, I can see that. Really? Right. Because people always say, uh, Denzel and Denzel's a genius, but Denzel's Denzel. He's his own category, his own life. Yes, he is. And he was very had a great personal relationship, um, to Sydney. And you know, when I interviewed him, when I did, I did a Sydney Portier documentary because I'm just trying to document all my heroes, right? And like, you know, this is an option for everybody. You know, you can be this, right? And, you know, he would just drive down because they were on the same block, I guess. And Denzel would just go for his house. Wow. And they'd be sitting around, you know, and you know, Sydney's in his pajamas. They'd just be talking. Yeah. He'd just go. That was a fly on that one. To be a fly. Oh, come on. I'm still waiting for Denzel to call me to him. And I'm waiting for a minute, I think. So, so the thing is, so, um, so yeah, it's so Chadwick, we met just like an amazing dude. Yeah. And we're talking and it's him the script. And he's like, man, I just, I just, you know, I just played these two historical characters. And you know, you want me to play another one? I say, I totally get that man. I get that. Well, let me ask you something. Do you think there should be a movie about their good martial? He goes, yeah, well, of course, you know, goes one of you say, yes, there will be. And if you say no, there won't. How about that? And then he was like, why you got to go there? Yeah. Yeah. You just jumped the whole brick on the bed. I say, look, I'm not, I'm not gaming you. This is just the fact. I just want you to buy them sat there. These are what it is. Wow. You know, what a way to get a movie made, though. Right. And no, it was just hard facts. And so he was like, okay, right? Because we met actually when we first really kicked it, we were at this big of the ball for, you know, for the art museum. Yeah. And we saw each other across the room, right? And he had just got the part of Black Panther. Yeah. So we're looking at each other. We're looking at it. And he comes over and goes, I know you want to talk about it. I guess I'd been writing Black Panther for three years. Right? Right. So that was the rest of the night. Yeah. It was just us. And someone smart put our seats together. So we just said, yeah. And that was it. And he's just like, you know, okay, martial arts style. I said, well, you look, you know, this capillaries, Afro-Buzzi, you know, you got to take that mix it with some males. Yeah. And I said, you know, this is how the government of Wakanda works as a structure. Right. And, you know, I'm just ridiculous because it's like he has to win. Yes. He has this movie has to work. Yeah. Right? Because one of the reasons I started writing the comic book was I knew for Black cinema to break to the next level. Yeah. The most likely way to be the game-changer is to do a science fiction oriented movie. Yeah. Because those aren't necessarily star driven. Yeah. You can put anyone in it. And it would appeal globally because the scale would be so fantastic. So I knew Black Panther would be a great vehicle to not just be a hit film, but take Black cinema to the next level. Right. I, I, I appreciated that movie so much. And, and shout out to Ryan Kugler and, and, and Marvel and all those guys. They did a fantastic. And, and one thing I, I love the most about it is what a lot of people, and I hope they put a little more emphasis on the next one is how really intelligent to child was. Yes, he was a warrior and he was a king and all his other things, but he was one of the most brilliant minds in Marvel. It rivaled stark and read Richards and all those guys. Right. He was truly, truly an intelligent, super smart. Like, absolutely. Super smart and moral and moral. Which is to me, you go, okay, if you are literally this African superpower, right? Yeah. You have technology. No one else has no one else has on the point. You have minerals. No one else has. Yeah. But you're not colonizers. Yes. You could have taken out all of America. Yes. I mean, all of Africa and nobody would have been able to fight you. Right. Right. Yes. Right. And they were like, no, we're not trying to do that. We're just going to focus on our culture being healthy. Yes. Right. And having that moral guidance that says we're not out to conquer people. Yeah. I get a question for you. Mm-hmm. It's Ron, the film, and we're talking about Chadwick and he's not here. What's one thing that you learned about him working with him that maybe the public doesn't know about Chadwick? Again, the morality. Everyone who knew him knew what a good human being he was. In a way that was striking and inspiring and lifted you up. He was always lifting people up. And also, I remember we were doing press, right? And we finished doing this interview for CNN, and as we're leaving, one of the crew guys, this black guy, he said, hey, man, I just wrote this book about the black people who built the White House, and he gave us copies, and we were excited. And I'm like, look at these two blurred, these two black guys excited about get in the book. You know how he would just like, oh, this is a good book. And it's like, and we looked at I mean, I was like, wow, yeah, you know, when you find your people, that's right, you're tribe, right? Yeah. And I mean, I was just so excited to light man. Can we just work together every four or five years? You know, can he be great for this? He'd be great for that? He just someone you want to be around. Yeah. When he passed, everybody's called each other. Everybody's calling each other. Did you know? Yeah. Because no one knew. Yeah. Which again, speaks to the loyalty that he engendered from his team. Yes. Right. They kept it a secret, right? Right. That's a level of respect. That the fact that his team kept it secret, they honored his want. That's the hardest part. As you know, loyalty is yes, there's always one snake in the group that has to say something. Yeah, always let me get some hype about it, limited and they still haven't talked. Yeah. So I mean, that speaks to the man. That's that speaks to the man. And here's the thing, you know, people are so disrespectful now when someone dies, they can't wait to put whatever messiness or dirt out there. Yeah. No one has ever said a bad word about this man, because there's no bad words to say. That's about to say it is it's it's nothing to save. If you can't say it, that means it's nothing to say nothing to say. So, yeah, mean for me, I just walk around. And you know, you just think about it, you feel hurt. Yeah. Like it just happened. And then you shake it off. Yeah. There's nothing you can do. But you can't you just he's just too impactful of a person. The power that he exuded, it resonated when everybody, like people that didn't know him. Yeah. When everyone heard the news, it was more like my God, like, like, you felt like you lost a relative, a very close one because of just just how he he carried himself. Yeah. So it's one of those, I mean, you know, we have a section in another documentary, I did called number one, the call sheet, where, you know, cause I'm profiling everybody, you know, from Morgan Freeman, Denzel, you know, Kevin Jamie, and I had to do a chat with section. Yeah. You know, even though he's not here, it's like, no, no, no, he's too important to the history of cinema to be ignored. Absolutely. When you watch that and you hear Kevin Hart, yeah, talk about everybody, your heart just rips out. Yeah. Yeah. No, he was, he was an amazing human being. And there's one incident I had with him. We're at the comedy store. I think we're just with who? With Chadwick, okay, that we, my wife and I went to go see Martin. This was years ago, and he was working out, you know, just work on some some jokes and stuff. He was there. And it's, it's a very small thing that he did, but it, I always remembered it. He just took a picture of my wife. My wife walked up to him. We were on sunset. And he was about to leave. And my wife was like, Hey, can I take a picture with you? And I took the photo. I only have a picture, Chad. I just took it for her. Right. Right. And he was just as gracious, just as nice. He said, was he that me? That was up. I love your stuff. You know what I mean? And, and he jettin' and that left an impression. That one interaction. That one interaction. Because it was just like the energy. You can't explain it. But like, there's just some people that just impressed you without saying much. And he was one of those guys. So rest in peace, Chadwick Boseman, we miss you, bro. And we're going to try to hold it down. We can do. You know, but I mean, it's a devastating loss. It's a devastating loss. Now listen, I have, listen, we're going to have to have a part too. Because we, we, I asked you two questions. Right? That I have on my list. And, and like, but I enjoyed the conversation. I can listen, we can talk all day. And I've been wanting to do that actually, you know, even off the record, I've been wanting to have dinner with you and, and just chop it up. I love your show so much. And the Marcus Miller episode, I was like, oh, yeah, you got the good stuff out of here. We haven't even tapped into that. That's probably got to have a part too. Because I, you know, there's a time constraint, but like, yeah, yeah, or house party. Now, I do have to ask this about house party. Yes. You made that movie, because you were inspired by Luther Vandro song. Yes. Yes. And what song was that bad boy having a party? We just, yeah, guess here's the thing. I was, I was between my junior and senior year in college, right? That's when you did that film. The short film. Oh, the short film. Yeah, he had a short film of first. Yeah, yeah, it was a beautiful first. Yeah. And, you know, so I was working all summer to make it a money to afford to make the movie, right? Because you got to buy your own film. You got to, yeah, and I've been working on summer writing a script, which I'd finished and I felt pretty good about it. So it was the last day I'm packing up to go back to college. And I had the radio on as some packing. And bad boy having a party comes on. Now, back then, black music videos weren't really a thing. So as an exercise in my head, I would make music videos. So I'm doing the video for bad boy having a party in my head. I'm like, that's a pretty good music video. I'm like, wait, that's a movie. So I wrote the script for house party that night, just banged out, banged out 30 pages. Because there's a cause I have been working like work. No, no, no, the key is I have been writing all summer on another script. You got to do your reps. I did my reps on the other script. So then when the lightning boat idea came, yeah, shut out the world and just pour it out, pour it out. Don't stop. You ain't doing nothing. Do that. That's right. Right. So then the lightning boat comes out and you go, oh, and all the things you learn writing the other one makes the other one easy. And he just easily made a cult classic. So then I take it to my cause professor and they're like, we really don't do script it. I got to do this. So I talk him into backing this is my thesis. And I found some local kids at Cambridge, Ringer Latin, you know, and I just, you, I got no money. So I beg for everything. I go and say, can I shoot at your club, you know, which was like a brownstone, right? Yeah. And I let you do. You know, and you just, you just beg it. I would go by generic bread and generic peanut butter. And then finally one day they were like, we can't eat that no more. We're working for free. He's talking to arteries up. Right. So I, I, I said, okay, I got to go all out. So I went to church of chicken. Nice. Right? Gormay. Gormay churches chicken. Come on. Gormay. Cause I gotta turn this around. I gotta turn this around. So I got him churches. I'm like, I don't know, that money came from, but I made it happen. So I made the movie. And it was crazy for some reason near graduation time. Denise Nicholas came to visit Harvard. Okay. Right. So I showed her my film. And she was like, Oh, this is pretty good. I'm like, she's a professional actress and she thought my mother was pretty good. So I'm encouraged. And then there is a grant for $5,000 that you could apply for it to make a movie. So I apply, I, I, I did not go home for Thanksgiving. I stayed on campus. It was like, anybody there. Right. And I just finished editing my movie. Right. And I submitted this to get money to make another movie. And I got the grant $5,000. That's big money. That's big money. That's church or chicken plus. That's right. So extra biscuits. And then my professor said, I plat for that grant. And I didn't get it. He said, you're a professional now. Someone just gave you money to make a movie. That is true. Woo. That was a powerful, classy thing to say. That is. And I was like, okay. And true. Right. And then and my brother warranted in half this organization in New York called the Black Film Micro Foundation. And every summer, they would show a little black and independent films. And they would take them to where the people were. So they show them in a nightclub. They you know, throw up a sheet, show it against the wall outside. You know, this is wherever because this again, before Spike Lee, before what we think of, we just say black people make movies to write. So we showed it as a double feature. It was my movie and spikes. Um, shows Barbara shot. We could heads. Okay. And they both played together. Great. And I like that. That's a good double feature. Yeah. And I learned then they pay you $40 for a rental. But if you spoke, you got another $30. Mm hmm. You go, that's more money. Right. So you do that. Yeah. And you go, you learn how to talk. Wow. You better talk to be interesting. Right. You want that extra. That's right. What that actually, you're trying to get a cap rat home and trying to cast a train. That's it. What you're trying to do. Yeah. So that was that was that's amazing. That's amazing. He's just wrote it in a night. Now again, we got to have a part too. Okay. But I do have to lease. Get your top five opinions on things. All right. First, your top five favorite films. That's not a thing. I mean, the best thing I can do is you can say, top five, you know, musicals or top five, you know, superhero movies. But they just take top five period. The whole of cinema, I can't do that. Okay. All right. That's easy for him. Sean. No, let no, you can only walk out of your house with five films. The house is burning down. What are you getting, Reg? What are you taking with you? What do you what do you grab? I'm carrying my burning house. I'm going to criteria and I'm going to buy a new set of DVDs. It's not going to matter. I'm the whole new set of you. Fair enough. Fair enough. All right. Okay. Damn you read. You're okay. You're top five favorite directors. Woo. Is that a little easier? No. I mean, here's the thing. Because it's like, look, we should be fair about it. I mean, but here's the I will name, I'm going to name, I don't know. I'll just go name him. Just name so I'll name some look. It's funny. Cause when you say Spielberg is Scorsese, that's Beatles Rolling Stones. That's that, you know, Earthwinter fire, Pete Falk, two different flavors, but you can't live without the exactly. You got to have them both. Exactly. Right. Must coexist. They must coexist. Yeah. And they're brilliant. Yes. Right. So that. Okay. Right. And it's funny because my son's 18 now. And over the last couple of years, he's become a movie head. Okay. Right on his own. Right. Because I would try to show him movies. He'd be like, right, right. And then he's found the stack top 100 list. Because dad, there's a list top 100 movies. I'm not going to watch them all. I'm not going to watch the black and white ones. And I said, nothing. Because that's bait. Right. You go really made me defend black and white movies. Right. But on his own, he started rocking. Okay. He said, dad, you know, the greatest movie I made is I said, no, what is it? He goes, city of God. I said, the Brazilian film, he goes, yeah, I say, son, that's a defensible position. That is a, if you want to say, that's the greatest movie of your mate, I respect that. Okay. And then he came up the next week, he goes, dad, you know, writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing writing That's a real hot take. That's a real hot take, because that's one like a thousand Oscars of a man who's digging that. So then he comes up like the next week, he goes, dead. What should I watch next? I said, why don't you and I watch the Revenant together? He's rocked and I'm stopping his starting, right? I go, I start like a wibbit. Look at this scene. He's shooting 366 degrees, all the way around him up into the trees and down. It's a continuous take. Where's the equipment? Where's the lighting? How is he shooting this? Right, how is he shooting? And it's crazy. Oh, I say continue. So we just rock in the home over that way. Or when he gets to Godfather, specifically Godfather too. One of my favorite movies. And he's like, stop, hold that. I said, okay, say what's happening right now? I said, this is the Cuban Revolution. And all these capillaries, and as you see, they're putting AT&T and gangsters on the same level. Right. And they're slicing up the cake. But the main gangster says, I want a smaller slice. That's not he ain't just talking about cake. Right. And we go crazy. And he goes, okay. So that's crazy. But he, I mean, that we didn't fall far. Right, right, right. It never really does. But it's the re-broll part. Right. But he has to look on their own terms. Yeah, this is when it clicks. It clicks. Yeah. But he's in every, I mean, he's an amazing photographer. He's DJing now. Nope. Which makes sense though. All of that makes sense. Yeah. And he's like, I didn't know that. I didn't know that. Shout out to D. Nice, because he does the same thing. Just right. Right. And the thing is, I'm like, I didn't know that. I mean, I'm like, right. But you do it. And then he was like, well, you could, I'm like, no, and that looks hard. Yeah. But he's not, because I didn't even, he said, I'm going to learn how to DJ. And I go, okay. And then six months later, we're at some friends barbecue. And I'm like, yo, who's? You son? Yo, he's kind of killing it. Right. Right. Right. All the adults are like, right, right, right. And it's like, yeah, it's an art. It's, but I just love like here, take the baton. Yeah. It's beautiful. With my daughter, like she got old enough. I said, okay, I got a rough cut of my movie. I'm going to have a little screening. Why don't you come to your old enough? So she goes. And then when the movie's over, she goes, can I go first? Because I got a thing tonight. I'm like, well, appreciate you making. I appreciate your dad. But yes, I want to hear your thoughts. He goes, that, well, you know, in the first act, you know, that scene and that scene, I said, yeah, those are great. But just cut everything else out. Just lose the rest of the story. Just keep those two scenes. That's all you need. That's all you need. I was like, okay, what things? I got to go now. So I'm talking with my editing crew and they're like, what are we going to do about what your daughter said? I said, we're doing it. She's right. Yeah. You got to take, take the winning L. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You take the winning L. That's a gem. That is a. That's a bar. Yeah. Take the winning L's people. What? Sounds like an oxymoron, but it's not. No, it's not. It's not. It's the way to win. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. Look, either you win or you learn. Yes. And like, so my daughter walked up, punch me in my face and was like, thanks, you're exactly right. That's it. Like, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. That's last, that's last top five. Yes. Your top five superheroes. I don't do superheroes. I do creators. Okay. Right. Because the creator can take a character and make it fire. And then the next writer or art, it comes along and you're like, you just killed the whole vibe. Okay. True. But there is a, there is a basis that every superhero has like Superman will always be Superman. Mm-hmm. Right. Batman will always be Batman. Yeah. Because in 1939, 1940, right, basically what happened when we moved from the pulp era of the, the shadow and Doc Savage and stuff like that and into comic books, they're basically creating a new set of gods. Right. Sure. Right. And these are just fundamental ideas, right? When you have Superman who is just like ideal human being. Yeah. Right. You know, Quentin Tarantino broke down, you know, he's Superman who's, you know, pretending to be Clark Kent. That's true. Because Clark Kent stops him from being a monster. Right. I'm going to pretend to be this very flawed human, you know, I'm going to shrink myself. I'm going to shrink myself so that I maintain the moral guidance that my parents gave me raising me on the farm. Mm-hmm. Right. And that's a great idea. But then you go to Batman who's like, I'm a human, I have no powers. Right. But with my wealth and my bitterness over my parents being killed by crime, like I will, you know, I would become the peak human to get revenge. Now you might say, Hey man, how about therapy? Or are you, are you might say, you know, if you spent that money on the bat cave in like reforming, got some city and have some, you know, improved the school system. There's a lot of, yeah, you know, maybe. Yeah. You could chill. Right. Right. I mean, you did pretty good with those kids you were raising. Right. You could spread that to a bigger program. Right. He's always going to a charity ball. Right. But that ain't really up. But I'm just really living to go beat up some. Bruce Bruce has shown that he is psychologically scarred. Like he's, he's extremely damaged goods. And I guess that's his catharsis of dressing up like a bat and beating the shit out of people. And it's, and it's a profound critique of our culture that Superman used to be people's favorite hero, but now is Batman. Yes. So people to say, no, I don't relate to this really moral guy. I relate to this bitter rich guy. What does that say about America? Yeah. It's society, the whole thing. Yeah. It's scary. It's very scary. Yes. Okay. Last question. What's your favorite restaurant? I'm always happy to eat at chow's. My man. Give me some. That's my guy right there. All right. Cool. So, all right. So you're at chow's. That's perfect. Yes. Which are lettuce wraps and your chicken saute. And you know, I know the menu well. I know the menu well. Okay. You're sitting, you know, we sit and you can look towards the door, the bar. And in walks, a younger version of yourself. He's been looking for you. He's been trying to glean just some information, some jewels on what he can expect. In his future. So he sits down next to you. He grabs one of those chicken chattays. He orders some wine. Well, he's might be a little too young. So he orders some water. And he's waiting for you to give him some jewels. What would the older Reggie Reginald say to the little Reggie? Yes. Well, the first thing is, you know, because I, you know, I speak at schools or whatever. Or I get stopped, like you just say. That this device I didn't have. And everything is on this device, meaning you can watch movies and around the world. You can read scripts. You can shoot a film, cut a film and release it across the planet, all on this device. And that's crazy. So like, film school is great because you'll, it will force you to do things you wouldn't normally do. And if you're fortunate enough to have a bunch of interesting classmates working together, it's that still sharpening still vibe. Right. So I endorse that. But you don't have to wait to get to film school to completely immerse yourself. And you know, read scripts, right? Read scripts of movies you've seen and see the difference between what's on the page and what's on the screen. Watch every category of movie, right? You know, you know, just go, oh, okay, that's, you know, because you'll learn from every category. Yeah. Right. In all mediums because writing a TV, making a TV commercial from all the process, writing, shooting, all of it, TV commercial is different from the music video, which is different from a half hour sitcom, which is different from an hour long drama, which is different from a feature film. And a documentary is different than inscripted. And the more you do all those things and you learn the strengths and weaknesses of each thing, like when I write a comic book, I don't have sound effects. No. I don't have music. And I can't do something like this. Hmm. Now you and I know, right. Means a lot. That's off the table. Yeah. And when you write a comic book, the same way when you watch, when you write a TV show, right, you got to make it so when the commercials come on, you stay in there until the commercials are over. Right. So with a comic book, every time I got to get you to turn the page, how do you hold the audience's attention? Whatever medium you're doing in, how do you get people locked in? And whatever thing, if you say, oh, it's only a five minute video, I don't have a lot of time. So you better get your message across in five minutes or less. If you have two hours, you got to keep people's attention for two hours. Yeah. That's a very ambitious thing. So in each of those things, you got to learn from the obstacles of each medium and get better. But just really educate yourself and watch things that are out of your comfort zone. Oh, I don't want to read that with subtitles. Well, you better learn to read something with subtitles. Right. Because this is a literate medium. Right. You know, so if you're not reading scripts, if you're not reading, if you're not seeing movies from around the world, you got to get over that. Yeah. I mean, some of the most inspiring movies I've seen are from Italy and from Japan. Right. Right. So you go, I mean, I just see all that. And some people who really don't want to watch things that are in black and white. Yeah. My son is not over that. Right. You know, he thought he saw psycho. You know, he was like the first one. Right. He's just like, Oh, oh, you know, and you and you get it. Yeah. So you just have to keep and it's an if you're if you're making movies, you're part of a global conversation. Yeah. Because again, the stealing doesn't just start in your local theater on your TV. You know, it's like I'm checking out what people are doing all over the world and they're checking me out. And you know, and you don't know who's seeing you. You know, I know people in Japan who buy bootlegs of black exploitation movies because they can't get the flavor through traditional means of distribution. Right. So they'll do whatever it takes to get flavor. Yeah. So know that you are part of the conversation. We're going to have a part two, a three and maybe a four, which is giving you your own show. Yeah. I'm telling you like amazing. Again, I can listen to this man talk all day and I planned on it. Chalges on me. Thank you, sir. But wait, I got one more thing I have to say back. Okay. I've been looking forward to this for so, so long. For multiple reasons, one is your contribution to boomerang by doing into the road. And so profoundly grateful for. And I literally can't. It was an honor. I literally can't thank you enough. It was an honor. It was our honor. Well, it was a crazy experience because, you know, every couple of days, Ellie and Face would just send a little pouch and you'd put the cassette in and you'd be like, Woo! You're right. And I would just say stuff like I'm like, like with into the road, I was like, you know, we need one of them talking songs. You know, it was like you'd be seeing a big ballot and then, you know, in the middle, you mean it, hey, baby, you just be talking. And then the vocals come back cow. Yeah, yeah. So I say, you know what I mean, right? Yeah. I think you get a cassette and you're like, yeah, because as Tim, we're pinning some of the greatest music in the history of the world. Okay, you got to, you got it. Okay, this is an Isle of Brothers record. You got to beat that. You got to beat or beat that. You got to meet or beat all these brilliant pieces of music and that's just, they just did it like, what else you want? Like, it was crazy. They are two of the greatest to ever do it. To ever. And then, but when you all just put both feet in the pot, Jesus Christ. This is ridiculous, y'all, destroyed it. And when you beat Elvis's record, I mean, you didn't just beat the record. You beat Elvis's record. So, triply satisfied. Hey, thank you. Hey, listen, again, we're going to talk again. Oh, yeah. I swear if I couldn't go to dinner, I was taking you to Charles a day, but, Rachel, I love you. Love you, brother. And, again, ladies and gentlemen, please give it up. Mr. Rachel, I love you. Hey, y'all. And that was on that note. 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