EP.269 - JAMIE HEWLETT & DAMON ALBARN AKA GORILLAZ
Adam Buxton interviews Gorillaz creators Damon Albarn and Jamie Hewlett about their latest album 'The Mountain', which explores themes of mortality and death following the loss of both their fathers. The conversation covers their creative process, experiences in India, and wide-ranging topics from cycling safety to AI's impact on creativity.
- Creative partnerships can be strengthened through shared personal experiences, as Albarn and Hewlett's fathers died within 10 days of each other, informing their album's themes
- India's cultural approach to death and reincarnation provided a healthier perspective on mortality for Western artists dealing with loss
- Physical music formats like CDs are experiencing a resurgence as younger listeners seek better audio quality than streaming platforms provide
- Established artists feel less threatened by AI in creative industries, believing audiences will ultimately prefer human-made content
- The fictional band concept of Gorillaz provides complete creative freedom, allowing collaboration with any artist without genre constraints
"I don't subscribe to modern life is rubbish. You know, it's just an old kind of sort of saying of mine."
"If I was 20 years old, wanting to make a career as an artist, I would be stressing a little bit right now."
"They're the reason we can experiment and do whatever we want. Because they're the band. So behind them we can literally do anything."
"I have worked at my musical ability almost daily for nearly 40 years."
"People will want to see stuff made here and listen and see stuff made by people."
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I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin. Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening. I took my microphone and found some human folk. Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke. My name is Adam Buxton.
1:09
I'm a man.
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I want you to enjoy this.
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Hey, how you doing? Podcats, it's Adam Buxton here. I'm with my best dog friend, Rosie. Bless you. We're out for a walk in the Norfolk countryside on this quite cold but bright blustery day in the latter half of April 2026. It's looking very beautiful out here. Spring is definitely sprung. Is it? Well, it's springing and the blossom is out. Everything's looking very lush and beautiful like you, if you don't mind me saying. Sorry, it's been a while since the last podcast, but I've been working unusually hard, I would say, on a new six part comedy series for Audible. It's called Success Pod and it's now nearly finished and will hopefully be available sometime in May, I think. I'll let you know when we have an exact date. It's a mixture of new nuggets of conversation with some of my favourite previous guests from this podcast as well as some conversations with Rosie. Right, Rosie? Oh, yes, most certainly. As well as sketches all around the theme of what success looks like for a middle aged guy who listens to a lot of podcasts but isn't on social media and is occasionally concerned that he is becoming totally irrelevant. Not based on me, obviously. I've also been dusting off my Bug David Bowie special as it is the 10th anniversary of his death and in June and July this year I'll be performing it in a special enhanced form like with some added visual elements to take advantage of the technology at the amazing Light Room Immersive Projection based exhibition space in King's Cross. And those shows are going to be taking place as part of the Lightroom's Bowie Nights season, which runs from May to September this year and includes a series of events celebrating Bowie's life and work, with the centrepiece being a new film made specially for the Lightroom called you'd Are Not Alone. The Blurb says with 11 meter tall projected visuals and newly mastered immersive audio, you Are Not Alone features iconic performance footage, rarely heard interviews and never before seen material celebrating the creative mind and soul of David Bowie. I'm going to see a preview this week. Very excited. I'm only doing four performances of the Bug Bowie Special, one in June and three in early July, so book now. There's a link in the description. And of course don't forget I'll be playing music shows with the Adam Buxton Band in May, just a couple of weeks away, so if you haven't already, get your tickets now. It's going to be a fun time. I'm really looking forward to those shows. Links also in the description Busy description today okay, Gorillaz. This was a good waffle session with musician Damon Albarn and artist and illustrator Jamie Hewlett, which took place shortly before the release of the Gorillaz album the mountain, the band's ninth since their debut Demon Days in 2001. Gorillaz were then and continue to be a project conceived as a way to bring together artists who might not otherwise ever meet to make music, with Damon unified behind Jamie Hewlett's illustrations and animations of the four fictional band members of Gorillaz, I.e. lead vocalist and keyboardist 2D, guitarist Noodle, bassist Murdoch and drummer Russell Hobbs. The Gorillaz Mountain tour kicked off on March 20th in Manchester and it wraps up at London's Tottenham Hotspur Stadium on June 20th. I'm going to try and get along to that one. There will be support there from Argentine rapper and singer Trueno and Sparks no less. They are two of the guest artists who appear on the new album alongside idols Johnny Marr, Black Thought Indian music legend Asher Bosley, Anoushka, Shankar, Gruff Reese, and in posthumous vocal form, using hitherto unheard recordings from previous Gorillaz sessions, Dennis Hopper, Mark E. Smith of the Fall, Bobby Womack and other non living legends to chime with the album's theme of making peace with mortality. My conversation with Damon and Jamie, neither of whom I had properly met before, was recorded in the downstairs control room of Damon's Studio 13 recording complex in West London towards the end of January this year, 2026. And as you'll hear, it was a conversational fun house at times. Thoughtful and deep, delivered in the lovely smoky vocal tones of Albarn and Hewlett. But it was also occasionally quite childish and even chippy, albeit in an enjoyable way, I hope you'll agree. When we'd finished recording, I was treated to a short tour of the studios, a little of which you'll hear as a short bonus at the end of the main conversation. And Damon correctly assumed that I would be impressed by various items of gear he had amassed that once belonged to Florian Schneider, one of the founders of German electronic music pioneers Kraftwerk. All in all, I was made to feel thoroughly welcome for a good old fashioned, no holds barred, indiscreet ramble fest. And it began with me setting up my mics, wondering what to expect while my backup recorder was running, and telling Damon and Jamie about my cycle ride from East London that day, during which I had listened, not for the first time, to the new Gorillaz album and had been, in every sense transported. It's a really lovely record. Back at the end for a bit more of a catch up. But right now with Jamie Hewlett and Damon Albarn, here we go,
1:40
ramble chat.
8:14
Let's have a ramble chat. We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that. Come on, let's chew the bat and
8:16
have a ramble chat.
8:25
Put on your conversation coat and write your talking hat. La.
8:27
Here. You cycled?
8:53
I cycled from Brick Lane and it's the exact length of your new record.
8:54
Oh, okay.
9:00
50 something minutes. Really?
9:02
And how was it? Listening to the mountain while dodging it was perfect London traffic.
9:04
It was good, actually. It centered me because it's very stressful rush hour traffic on a bike, especially as biking now is totally lawless.
9:09
Well, and also when it's wet.
9:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Although I got lucky with the weather. It didn't actually rain on me.
9:22
No, but it's the leaves, right?
9:26
Okay. And also, people don't seem to know on the toe part, left or right. Yeah.
9:28
Oh.
9:33
Drives me mad. If I see. If I see a tourist coming to me in the wrong side to say, I'm going to keep on the left hand side. I'm not going to. I'm going to run you down. You don't move.
9:33
Do you use your bell?
9:46
I've got bill.
9:47
Ah, you need a bell. I've got a very piercing.
9:48
I don't have a. I don't have a helmet, a bell or lights.
9:50
Fucking hell.
9:54
I never have that, ever.
9:55
Is that an ethical choice?
9:57
Why?
9:58
Because I don't subscribe to. I don't like. I don't clean my yoga mat after yoga. Why is that? Because I just think it's fucking. That's part of. Modern life is rubbish. You know, it's just an old kind of sort of saying of mine.
10:00
Yeah, sure.
10:25
It's just no one cleaned their mats before. Before COVID And now it's just sort of arbitrary detergent everywhere. Great for detergent producers, but also just systematically devaluing our immune system.
10:28
But I would argue that helmets are a different. Are doing a different job.
10:49
Should I tell you the problem with helmets?
10:53
We're on helmets on bikes, Jamie, you're
10:55
really, really, really aware.
10:57
Aware.
11:00
If you don't wear a helmet, you're really aware.
11:00
Way more aware. Your spatial balance is better. No headphones. I mean, you were doing the worst things, listening to music on them.
11:03
Well, you see, I argue exactly what you argue with the helmets. I argue that listening to music at not too loud a volume so you can still hear if people yell at you or beep at you or whatever. But I do find that it sort of blocks things out in a useful way. I don't get to do. I get more centered and I can concentrate. And also it's like the most enjoyable.
11:10
No, it's great. I love it.
11:34
Saying it's not sure from a safety
11:37
point of view, if you're wearing a helmet and you're listening to music, you're psych.
11:39
You may as well just ride straight into the traffic, is what you're saying.
11:44
Well, yeah, it's like. It's like. Yeah, it's.
11:47
Yeah.
11:50
I don't know.
11:51
I don't know.
11:52
I just.
11:53
No, look, I'm on shaky ground. I know that it's frowned upon to have headphones in while you're cycling.
11:54
Well, no, everyone does.
11:58
I mean, yeah, but I do stop at the lights.
12:00
I'm.
12:02
I try.
12:02
It's.
12:03
I'm not saying I stop at every single one.
12:03
I never stop.
12:06
Do you?
12:07
Not forever.
12:07
Can you ever Lock your bike up either, do you?
12:08
Not so much, no. I park wherever I like.
12:11
Yeah.
12:14
In my car.
12:15
Hell man, you're living the dream.
12:16
Yeah, I don't care.
12:18
I don't have a telephone,
12:19
I have no social media. You know, I, sometimes I don't even really wipe my bum properly.
12:23
Yeah.
12:30
Oh God, here we go. Gone from helmets to your shitty bum.
12:31
No, it's not all the time, but I'm saying, you know what I mean? I'm never letting, I'm never letting someone
12:35
will do it for you.
12:40
I, I, I, I, I, I just don't allow many of the conventions that slow the, the day down to get in my way. Ever.
12:43
And you've constructed a life that accommodates that way of living.
12:55
Yes. Within certain parameters I can do what the. I like, I, I have the sort of taste and interest of, of someone like maybe in their early 20s who has a penchant for second hand things. So with my fiscal position I'm equivalent to a kind of student billionaire. So you know, I've never wanted fancy cars or anything and you know, but we are like that. Both of us really are.
12:59
Quite a fancy car though.
13:29
Yeah.
13:31
I mean I'm not saying that anyway.
13:31
No, we don't have, we don't take.
13:33
I have one, I, I've got a G wagon. That's not a fancy car.
13:34
And jewelry and have our purple.
13:39
I live in Devon so I have to travel a lot. I can't cycle down to Devon. They didn't recorded that of you, all that stuff.
13:40
Yeah. That's going in.
13:47
Yeah.
13:48
The stuff about you not wiping your bum and doing what you want, that's gold.
13:48
Okay.
13:53
This is what the fans want to know.
13:54
That's what you want from a rock star. I don't say.
13:56
I don't, I, it's, it's more of the principle of the thing. If I'm in a hurry.
13:59
Yeah.
14:03
I won't waste extra time doing something that not necessary to do at that moment.
14:03
Sure. And also it should be noted that while you're not stopping at lights, you are not menacing pedestrians.
14:09
Oh no, not at all. Oh no, no, no, I'm not. I, if there's people, I'm not going to run someone over. Yeah, no, no, no, I'm not like that. I'm not aggressive at all. I just get on with it.
14:15
Yeah. You know, Jamie's got a, a patient knowing expression on his face. Is that fair to say?
14:24
Yeah, patient all knowing expression on his face. Well, especially where you're concerned.
14:31
You got up on an Interesting side of the bed this morning.
14:38
Same side as my beds against the wall.
14:42
I've been googling traits of Aries people.
14:45
Ah, you're not Aries, are you?
14:49
I don't really subscribe to all that stuff.
14:52
I don't either.
14:54
I'm a Gemini.
14:54
You're a Gemini?
14:57
Yeah.
14:58
That's classic Gemini.
14:58
What's that?
15:00
You're not subscribing to it if you can't make your mind up, can you?
15:00
That's true, actually. Yeah.
15:04
There you go.
15:05
See, I mean, the thing is that they do have the ring of truth. A lot of the traits that are ascribed to different star signs.
15:06
We're not reading that. But there are similarities in people determined by the year they're born and the time of year they're born. Similarities enough that you can to discover the tiniest amount.
15:13
It's very, very simple for someone who wants it presented to them in a purely empiric way. The universe is comprised of atoms, and because of our relationships to other masses of atoms, like planets and stars, there's movement all the time. So depending on what time of the year and the position of everything within the cosmos, there's a difference. Subtle, but there. So it's irrefutable that the time of year you're born has some effects on the outcome, I think.
15:23
Have you always been cosmic like that?
16:01
Yes.
16:03
I've never really appreciated that He's a pagan. It comes through a lot more in Gorillaz stuff than it did in Blur songs, for example. Although there was a cosmic element, obviously, to songs like Universal and there was sort of cosmic references.
16:03
Strange news from another.
16:18
Exactly. Anyway, Damon, you've chosen to eat grapes.
16:20
Is that. Is that.
16:27
That is something that I get so much for.
16:28
Not a podcast listeners.
16:30
Yeah, but apples, they go absolutely nuts. Like, if I say something incredibly racist, that's fine.
16:32
But if people.
16:38
If you do this, though,
16:38
I'll just finish this one. It's the sloshing and the juicy chewing.
16:43
They're not particularly good grapes.
16:47
If people eat on podcasts, you get immediately cancelled in the podcast.
16:49
What about if people smoke on podcasts?
16:53
Smoke away. Smoke it up.
16:55
Great.
16:57
I intend to.
16:57
Would you?
16:58
Are you gonna smoke in this room?
16:58
Yeah. This is his studio. We can do what the fuck we want here.
17:00
Yes. No bum wiping, no helmets.
17:03
I wish I hadn't meant smoking.
17:07
Great.
17:11
I really wish I hadn't meant.
17:12
I believe you said that out loud, isn't it?
17:13
I was just having a laugh.
17:15
That's the inner circle of trust thing.
17:16
That is Yoga mat covered in A
17:18
thick layer of grime.
17:21
I can't believe all of that stuff. That's not. Next time I go to a yoga class, everyone's going to look at me because they've listened to your podcast and they know that I don't do that, and I'm going to be exiled from the yoga community.
17:22
You do sweat a lot when you do yoga.
17:37
Not that much.
17:39
I'm just kind of, you know, creating an even more vulgar picture of you.
17:41
It's nice. It's very earthy and sexy.
17:45
Yeah. All of these things need to be clarified.
17:47
Yeah.
17:49
Before COVID Yes. People did not clean their yoga mats.
17:49
Okay.
17:54
Okay. So why do they clean them now?
17:55
I agree with you. Everyone's got to make room.
18:00
Yoga.
18:02
Exactly. That's all I'm saying. It's like, you know, I think I did clean.
18:02
No, no. I mean, I cleaned mats, exercise mats. Like, periodically. If they start periodically, it's different.
18:07
But like.
18:15
No, not every day is ridiculous. It is ridiculous.
18:15
I think it leans the other way. Then I think things become over sterile, and I think it's not good for people to have all that detergent on their hands all the time, you know?
18:18
Well, you know, we were raised in the 70s when, you know, we were kids in the 70s, when you'd eat.
18:28
How old are you?
18:33
Or eat mud or fall out of a tree or.
18:33
I'm one year younger than you guys. I was born in June 69.
18:35
Oh, okay. So you're a 60s kid.
18:39
Yeah, yeah, Just got in there.
18:41
Best decades ever, right? Kid in the 70s, teenager in the 80s.
18:43
Yeah, yeah.
18:48
Young person. I mean, we in the 90s.
18:48
It's a very privileged upbringing that I had in lots of ways, but, yeah, very privileged to be a carefree kid in the 80s, especially nowadays. I look back and it just seems
18:51
like a dream out on your bike
19:01
all day that you were just.
19:03
Well, I was out on my bike in the 70s in east London.
19:04
Right.
19:07
Like 76, summer of 76, which we all remember.
19:08
Queen pulled down her Knicks in the summer of 76. She licked her bum and said, yum, yum. That was all 1976.
19:13
This is the kind of thing I was doing and still do, as we've heard.
19:21
Did you suffocate the ants as well?
19:26
No, no, no, no. What do you do if you want to go a poo in English country?
19:28
Garden. Pull down your pants that suffocate. Suffocate the ants in an English country. Oh, good old days.
19:33
Yeah. So you were painting a picture, though, of cycling around on your No, I
19:40
didn't have a chop. I had nothing. Nothing. So kind of mainstream as that?
19:46
Yeah, the penny farthing a hand me down.
19:51
Were you cycling around, Jamie?
19:55
Oh, my God. All I did was like on my grifter. I had a grifter.
19:56
Yeah.
19:59
My brother had a chopper.
19:59
His family were more middle class than mine, I think, because I never had anything like that.
20:01
Being class shamed very early on.
20:04
Not middle class at all.
20:07
Allowed to have da.
20:08
My family were butchers.
20:09
Yeah, but probably butchers earned more than art teachers.
20:10
Possibly high end butchers. But they were violent, Damon.
20:15
They were.
20:19
They were notorious.
20:19
They were violent people. I mean, I got the slipper, ruler and cane.
20:21
Like from your parents or teachers?
20:27
No, not from my parents, no, no.
20:28
Which teacher gave you the slipper? The home economics?
20:30
No, it was actually I got the wet lettuce. I got my. Yeah, I got the slipper at primary school. And the cane.
20:35
I got the cane. I got the cane on my hand.
20:40
What did you get the cane for?
20:43
The ruler was on the hand and bunking off school. Cane for smoking and playing truant. Going down to the graveyard all day and hanging out and sniffing Tippex Thinner in the graveyard.
20:45
Yeah.
20:57
And I got the cane twice on my hand and one on the back of my legs.
20:58
Damon, what did you get beaten for?
21:02
Firstly, I used to put my hand up to every question, whether I knew it or not.
21:06
Huh. Just to be a dick.
21:11
I mean, just to be a dick.
21:14
That was the reasoning in his head at the time.
21:16
No, it wasn't the reasoning in my head at the time, but with hindsight,
21:19
that's what was happening.
21:23
That probably was what was happening. But, you know, to be fair, I did know at least half.
21:25
All right, so you got the questions right most of the time?
21:29
No, about half.
21:32
Half.
21:33
But that, that was enough for it not to be kind of considered idiot behavior. And I don't know, just wasn't very popular at school. In fact, I was popular. I was actually really popular at school in Leytonstone. And then my parents moved to rural Essex and from that point onwards I was considered a complete outsider. I suppose it didn't really help that the first week I went to a new primary school because I moved there when I was 10, so I had one more year of primary school. For some reason, I got everyone in my year to come and watch me eat ladybirds.
21:34
Oh, what made you do that?
22:13
Stayed with me for the whole of my secondary education.
22:15
Did that make you more or less popular?
22:18
Less, yeah. Yeah. Really?
22:20
They just ladybird Boy.
22:22
And I played the violin.
22:24
Oh, dear. Arts and crafts.
22:26
Yeah, exactly.
22:28
That explains your lovely red lips.
22:29
Essex in the early 80s was not
22:31
don't eat ladybirds and don't play the violin. Ladybirds are so bitter in essence.
22:34
Have you tried the ladybird?
22:39
No, I don't want to eat them because. Just picking them up.
22:40
No, I would never do that now. And I won't even kill a fly or a mosquito. I'm actually quite militant about that.
22:43
Yes. We were talking about the fact that you're both Aries. The typical traits of the Aries, direct, sometimes blunt. Values honesty, over tact, protective of friends and loved ones. Prefers passion and intensity to subtlety. Are all these ringing bells?
22:54
I mean, it depends on the context.
23:17
Yeah, yeah.
23:19
Does it say really, really, really, really great as well?
23:20
Does it says really cool, fun, interesting, creative? It does say bold and energetic, confident and assertive, independent, courageous, enthusiastic.
23:23
It, I mean, what's there not to like about Aries?
23:32
Those are the core strengths. Common challenges faced by your people. Impulsive, impatient, hot tempered, competitive.
23:35
Yeah.
23:45
Restless.
23:46
Yep.
23:46
So you said no to hot tempered.
23:48
I'm not hot tempered. No, no, I, I, I keep my cool unless I'm really pushed.
23:50
When was the last time you lost it?
23:54
Well, I guess that would be if somebody was messing with family members or people I loved or intruding on my personal space. But I don't. My father was very angry. He spent his whole life being angry. So I grew up with a lot of shouting in the house, so I don't really like the sound of raised voices.
23:56
Why was he angry?
24:15
Well, because his mother was angry. It's kind of passed down into the next generation. And I don't think he ever really thought about why or how to sort that out. So I was a little bit like him to begin with. And I got it out of my system really early because I just didn't want to repeat that.
24:17
You know, I think looking back on our fathers, I think you have to really take into account the fact that they were born either in the middle or at the end of the Second World War. And I think people in this country have any understanding of the devastation of the Second World War and how that formed people, you know, very different. And, you know, this country is unrecognizable to that country now. I mean, in some, many very positive ways. But also, you know, I think a sense of entitlement. People have now. It's kind of people back then looked and they just go, you are, you've lost your mind. You know, what people expect as opposed to what they expected. And I think, you know, the dissonance of those 60, 70 years is hard really, to overstate. Overstate? Yeah.
24:32
We, us three, grew up at a time in the late 60s where there were many parallels to things that are going on now. Lots of tumultuous things happening.
25:28
But I mean, in East London there were still bomb sites that hadn't been fixed. When I went in the early 70s,
25:39
I think when we were at school, we were taught duck and covered nuclear war.
25:44
Yeah.
25:48
Then we became teenagers and the AIDS virus appeared and we were told lots of. About that.
25:48
Did that scare you?
25:53
Well, until I realized that it was over exaggerated and the information we were getting wasn't true.
25:54
Well, I don't know if it was over exaggerated.
26:00
No. The whole thing about. If you even go in a room with somebody.
26:01
Oh, yeah, all of that. All of that.
26:04
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:05
The scaremongering aspect.
26:06
Of course, then it was in IRA bombings. Then it was. Then it was.
26:08
I think the IRA bombings came before aids.
26:13
I'm just saying that from an early age, up until probably in my 30s, we lived in fear of something. There was always something we were supposed to be afraid of.
26:16
I mean, every generation does, but it
26:25
was, it was bombings, nuclear aids, that nuclear war.
26:26
When you're 10 years old at school, being taught in assembly, Duck and cover is terrifying.
26:31
My mum used to say it's not going to happen. That was her answer to that. She would deflect.
26:36
She was right. Up until a point.
26:44
So far she's been right.
26:45
So far so good. Touch with.
26:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:48
You got on with enjoying racing around on your bicycle in the park without the fear of that hanging over you like a dark cloud, you know, so that was good. She said that to you.
26:49
I think comparatively, that anxiety has been magnified so acutely since social media.
26:58
Oh, God, yeah.
27:06
I don't think, I don't think we.
27:06
Time get me started, Diamond.
27:08
No, but I honestly don't think we even understand how difficult it is for kids now. The amount of things that they're having to carry and assimilate.
27:10
It's. Do you guys have kids?
27:19
Yes. Well, our kids have grown up. Right.
27:21
I have three.
27:24
Are you aware of what their anxieties are in that way?
27:25
Absolutely.
27:29
Do they worry about war and things like that? I don't get the impression that mine do that much. They have other anxieties.
27:30
They don't worry about war, they worry about other things. Yeah, they're all creative and they worry about how they're supposed to fit in, find their place. I think when we were younger, there were gaps for us to slot ourselves into. You know, I could see where I should be and what I could do. But they're all very creative, our kids. But they're like, where do we start? What do we do? How do we get into this? You know, we don't want to follow the same rules as, you know, we have a designer, a photographer, a documentary maker, and a musician amongst our kids. But they're like. They don't know how to get off the starting blocks.
27:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do they like being with you guys? Do they like being with their family?
28:12
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
28:18
I just asked because much as I loved my parents, I didn't really want to hang out.
28:19
Oh, yeah, no, they hang out with us. Yeah, yeah. No.
28:23
And I think a lot of people of our generation when we were growing up in the 80s. You want to get out of the house, right?
28:26
Yeah. We all got out very early. Yeah. It's not quite the same now.
28:32
No, it's not. I mean, we had the.
28:35
But that's also to do with the fact that, you know, when I came back to London when I was 18, there were squats.
28:38
Yeah.
28:44
I lived in squats for years.
28:45
Did you?
28:46
Yeah, Everyone lived in squats. It was brilliant.
28:47
I certainly didn't live in squats, Damon. I lived in a nice cozy room.
28:50
My point is, young people could live in London.
28:55
Sure. In a way that they can't.
28:57
They can't now. Exactly.
29:00
Yeah.
29:01
Yeah.
29:02
It's extremely expensive city, London. So that's why, you know, I live in France, but I have my apartment in London, which I kept, because once you get a place in London, you don't get rid of it.
29:02
Yeah.
29:13
Both my sons were there for years. One's moved on, but the other one's still there because where else is he going to live? It's impossible to afford the rent.
29:13
Yes. And, you know, we are, I hope, all parents that love our kids. We want to protect them. We want them to be okay. But at the same time, what you were saying before, Damon, about the grime and not avoiding the grime too much because you cut an important part of what it is to be alive out if you do that. How do you navigate that with your own children? How do you tread the line between protecting them from the worst and just exposing them to things? The knocks, the things that they.
29:23
You mean making it too easy for them?
29:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:53
I'm. I'm.
29:54
Do you worry about.
29:55
Might be a Bit guilty of that.
29:55
I. I probably am a bit guilty of that in some ways. But I also have very hard on my daughter as far as kind of culture and education and stop listening to that terrible album.
30:00
Is that the kind of.
30:14
No, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. But, like, family holidays in North Korea.
30:15
Okay, right.
30:20
That kind of thing.
30:21
Did you really go for a family
30:22
holiday in North Korea with my daughter? Yeah.
30:23
Really?
30:25
I did.
30:26
Really?
30:26
I've always traveled with him. So maybe my daughter's a bit more politically aware than a lot of people of her generation. I know that for a fact because she's always telling me how frustrated she is when she says no one seems to care what's happening.
30:27
Yeah, yeah.
30:40
It's definitely one thing we've done with our kids is they've traveled with us, so they've seen a lot of the world from an early age, and now they go off and travel themselves. And my son just got back from Chicago. He's making a documentary there. My other son's just been to Japan. They like to go and travel. They have that bug, which I think is one of the best educations.
30:41
Yeah, that's a massive privilege. That's amazing.
31:02
Well, it wasn't. It wasn't a prison. They're not flying first class. I mean, they're just. They're getting on a plane like anybody else can. But the fact they have the bug to go and discover and. And see something new and get out of.
31:04
They are privileged, so there's no getting around it.
31:14
But also, I don't know how travel itself is gonna change.
31:18
Well, yeah.
31:24
In the years coming with the climate crisis and how that has to change.
31:24
Yeah. I mean, I. I grapple with that, but I. I also know that I spent 30 years just cycling. I. I only got my license in my mid-50s because I was live. Started living down in Devon, and I'm just impossible. You can't. You can't live in the middle of nowhere in Devon if you don't drive. And it's so hilly where I live that my. You know, I mean, literally going to get a pint of milk is an hour and a half on the bike.
31:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:03
But what a workout.
32:04
Damon's a bit like the Forrest Gump of the music scene.
32:05
I don't see anything in what I just said that would bring that.
32:08
It's the cycling for 30 years.
32:11
Oh, yeah. But not in this one direction.
32:13
The walking for four years, or.
32:15
No, no.
32:18
It was a weak comparison, but I felt we needed a joke at this Point.
32:19
Yeah.
32:22
I mean, this is a very long, interesting philosophic position that cannot be explained within an hour.
32:23
Cars are terrible. I think we agree that cars.
32:32
I prefer trains by far.
32:35
I prefer trains.
32:37
Sleeper trains as well. Good.
32:38
Not so much in this country. Yes, but the principle of the train.
32:40
Yeah, absolutely.
32:45
I mean, you know, trains and bikes.
32:46
Let us mourn for a minute. The old rolling stock of British Rail where they had windows that you could pull down. The buffet car.
32:49
Buffet car.
32:59
The, the fabric that's slightly rose tinted spectacles, though. I mean, British Rail back in the day was the butt of every single joke.
33:00
Oh, as opposed to.
33:06
Because, yeah, of course it's not better now and it's different.
33:08
We just can't be bothered to make the joke anymore because it's so ridiculous.
33:11
But the trains never ran on time.
33:14
I always thought, I always thought what an extraordinary admission of failure. Mind the gap is. Yeah, exactly. And it is like a mantra every morning, the whole of the workforce in Britain. Mind the gap. Yes, I mind the gap. But what is the gap? It is the gap of failure altogether. Now,
33:16
the platform is badly designed. The platform is badly designed.
33:49
As opposed to China, where trains speed through stations with a millimeter gap.
33:54
Here's some of the things that were happening when you guys were born in March and April 68. Damon, you were March. Jamie, you were April.
34:35
April 3rd.
34:43
Yeah. So this is the time at the end of the 60s that really marked the end of the kind of peace and love part of the 60s. Hippie dream. My Lai massacre happened in March 68. Grosvenor Square, anti Vietnam student protest outside the embassy.
34:44
You had the Paris student protest, didn't you as well?
35:02
Paris protests, that's a big one. Student protests in Germany and the us they're protesting about all the same things that people are protesting about today. That capitalism, about war, about wealth inequality. Enoch Powell, rivers of blood speech. April 68. Assassination of Martin Luther King. Yeah, April 68. I mean, can you imagine how scary the world looked at that point and how out of control everything was?
35:05
Then we go into the Cuba crisis culturally.
35:35
Van Morrison was recording Astral Weeks. So that's good, isn't it?
35:38
That's good.
35:42
Damon's not fast.
35:44
I mean, hasn't Van Morrison just sang the Same song for 15? Come on,
35:45
That is not a good Van Morrison impression.
35:56
I'm glad he didn't sing that song over and over.
35:58
What is that? That's not Van Morrison.
36:04
I, I think Morris Van Morrison has got some wonderful songs, got some growling. Well, they've got some Wonderful songs, but the limpest handshake of anyone I have ever met. Ever.
36:06
Oh, really? Yeah.
36:18
Just so non committal.
36:19
I know. Aries comment as well. If you give a limp handshake, the areas. Oh, pathetic. It's going to be a strong handshake.
36:21
The magnitude of his disinterest.
36:28
Yeah, he's not known for his personal charm.
36:31
No, no.
36:34
Our ex manager used to manage Van.
36:35
No, he didn't, Chris. No, he didn't.
36:38
Yes, he did. Yes, he did.
36:40
No, he did.
36:42
Yes, he did.
36:43
I think you're right, he did.
36:44
I think he told me he did. So was he lying?
36:45
He managed John Kyle and. And then Lizzie Finn, Lizzie Ultravolks.
36:48
I thought he did.
36:55
Dead or Alive.
36:56
Dead or. Okay, I'm pretty sure he told me he did. Van. And he told me he's not the nicest person in the world to look after because he's very, very grumpy.
36:57
Yeah, everyone knows that about Van. No, but Astral Weeks.
37:05
Yeah. One.
37:08
Come on, there's more than one. Anyway, let's not get hung up. I'm sorry. Name you another good Van Morrison album. Are you joking? Moondance? Yeah.
37:10
That's a song?
37:19
No, it's an album. Is it? Yeah, it's a brilliant album.
37:21
What other songs have got on it?
37:25
It's got Brand New Day.
37:26
Clearly you're a Van Morrison fan.
37:29
I love him.
37:30
I'm a Van. I love Van Morrison, too.
37:31
We're both Van Morrison fans.
37:33
Feed and fleece and he's never shook his hand.
37:34
Yeah, I think. Okay. Living within music every day.
37:37
Yep.
37:42
And understanding the mechanics of music to
37:43
a degree, I'll give you that.
37:48
I find it quite rudimentary. And consistently rudimentary.
37:49
Are you bashing Van again?
37:54
No. You brought him up. I'd never. I would never have mentioned Van Morrison, ever.
37:56
You find Astral Weeks rudimentary?
38:01
Somewhat, yeah.
38:05
Don't get into a conversation.
38:07
Doesn't mean that it's complicated.
38:10
There's free jazz all over that thing.
38:12
Jazz is not complicated. Do you know how? Have you ever played free jazz?
38:14
No.
38:18
Right, then. So you don't know. What? You're impressed by free jazz, aren't you?
38:19
I'm impressed by that free jazz.
38:22
Clearly. Clearly you're impressed by the word jazz.
38:23
I'm not unimpressed by it.
38:26
No.
38:28
I love jazz. I love jazz. But you know Felonious Monk, now that's impressive.
38:28
That is good jazz.
38:33
Yeah. I do love some of Van Morrison songs. I just. I just. I'm not as big a fan as you are. And it's pro.
38:34
It is.
38:42
Clearly. Clearly.
38:42
Because he gave you a limp handshake.
38:44
Yes, I think so.
38:46
Later with Jaws or something.
38:47
Was it.
38:49
Where was it? Where did you meet him?
38:50
No, it wasn't later. At Jules.
38:52
Well, that's where people.
38:54
Well, that's you.
38:55
How would he know where it was?
38:56
Where was it?
38:57
The fact that you. That you think that is everything I need to know. Come on.
38:59
That's the most likely place you're gonna meet someone.
39:05
Like the most likely place.
39:07
Because they. That's the genius of Jules. He gets them all together, all the great.
39:09
I love Jules Holland. He's a lovely person. I love him.
39:13
Who was it? Oh, it was the fall that stipulated that if they went on later with Jules, part of their contract was Jules Holland was not allowed to play boogie woogie piano anywhere near them.
39:18
That sounds very Marky Smith.
39:28
But also, Marky Smith always used to send me a Christmas card.
39:30
Did he?
39:34
Yeah, yeah. In fact, the only people I get Christmas cards from who I've worked with are Elton John and the late Mark E. Smith. Actually, to be fair, Paul Cinnamon sent me a few over the years.
39:34
Yeah. What were you going to say?
39:45
I was just saying that we worked with Markey Smith and yeah, we had a pretty good relationship with him. I mean, for all of the sort of stories of irascibility.
39:46
Speaking of.
39:56
We got on really well. We had a great time with him and he was really cool. We had a lot of fun. But. Yeah.
39:57
Which album Was that one?
40:02
2010.
40:03
Plastic beach, wasn't it?
40:04
We only worked with him once.
40:05
He was sitting right here in the studio.
40:07
Yeah.
40:10
Yeah.
40:10
I mean, like the hardest person to convince to do something was Lou Reed.
40:10
We went off Union Square in New York in a studio, and it was me, Damon and Remy, Remy Kabaka, who's the kind of the other third member of Gorillas. And Lou arrived and Damon said, hey, Lou, nice to meet you. This is when to introduce me. And Lou said, you can off and then Jeremy. And you can fuck off too.
40:15
Literally.
40:32
Yeah.
40:33
So we off to go. And we left Damon alone with Lou. We off do some shopping, you know, and by the time.
40:34
My little face in the window of
40:41
the door and by the time we got back, they'd done this song. But he was. He was still a little bit. Would never speak to me. Then I drew an image of him. And then suddenly he started to be nicer to me next time I met him. And then he wanted to meet the whole band. So he kind of. He went from being ice cold to Being very warm.
40:42
Yeah.
41:00
He's like a stone.
41:00
In a nice way.
41:03
He's a stone cold. When you pick it up, you hold it close to you. Warms up.
41:04
That's lovely, Damon.
41:10
Were you going to tell me the rest of the information about the stone as soon as you said it?
41:12
No, I was looking to see if you understood that.
41:16
No, I didn't.
41:18
Basic metaphor.
41:19
No, I didn't. All I was getting was that that's
41:20
why you like Astral Wheat. Because it's like, you know, because I'm not. Lacks metaphor.
41:22
Oh, my God.
41:27
I feel a bit of Aries Gemini competition building here.
41:28
But he's saying this because he clearly is such a fan.
41:32
It's so perverse.
41:35
I am.
41:36
Don't let him get under your skin.
41:39
I can't believe that I've seen a weakness.
41:42
This is the hill that I'm dying on Is defending Van Morrison. That's not something I expected.
41:45
I'm, I, I, I'm. I'm only. I'm just being silly.
41:54
Of course.
41:56
Honestly.
41:57
Marky Smith has been resurrected on this record.
41:57
Yeah. Really, Like, I mean, truly. I mean, he's kind of sort of. And his words. Shrunken china head and peg leg slave traders and all these crazy visions that have been stored for 15 years and they've. On the mountain, they've just been in a delirious outpouring. Yeah, They've. They've reemerged. Which shows you that his mind and his visions acute.
42:00
Those kind of lyrics give birth to incredible illustrations. You get lyrics like that, you can't really go wrong, can you?
42:27
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
42:34
no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
42:38
no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
42:40
Oh, and you see that lamp over there?
42:54
And, And I just got.
42:57
You've got some Florian stuff in here.
42:58
Yeah, yeah.
42:59
In the upper room there. There's.
43:00
You got craft work gear.
43:03
Yeah. What's a craft work synthesizer and a typewriter with.
43:04
Covered in DNA?
43:08
I've got Florian's typewriter.
43:09
Yeah.
43:12
Is it.
43:13
You've got a craft work synthesizer?
43:14
Yeah, I just got it. Yeah.
43:16
There was a big auction of his stuff.
43:18
I'll show you it later.
43:20
I'd love to see it.
43:21
Yeah.
43:22
And when you play it, can you hear what songs they would have recorded with it?
43:23
He's programmed stuff into it. It's bespoke.
43:27
Wow. I suppose for some people, they consider it to be a museum piece, but I really want to just play it and, you know, use it.
43:30
Yeah.
43:37
There's one button you press and it goes.
43:39
If only, if only. That was the first single I ever bought.
43:44
Dusting those keys to get some Florian Dn.
43:49
But you know. Do you remember the Casio Vlton?
43:52
Of course I do.
43:55
So that was the. That was the first time. It was a. Like a kid like me who's obsessed with synthesizers, could for Christmas get a Casio Vl tone, switch it on and press a button. Just the. The preset that they'd used on. On that song by Trio, wasn't it? Yeah, a German combo, you know, that happened again with a Suzuki Omnicord, which I switched on and I got the beat for Clint Eastwood immediately. You know, it doesn't happen very often.
43:56
Yeah.
44:30
I mean, maybe amongst the Kraftwerk symphsizers I have acquired that. There's. There's that moment again. But maybe not.
44:30
Do you think that there's a song in every single new bit of gear?
44:38
Yes.
44:41
Yeah.
44:42
That's why I've got so many symphonizers. I've got a lot now. Not as many as Jean Michel Jar, but I think by the time I'm Jean Michel's age, I will.
44:42
We. We went to Jean Michelle's studio just outside of Paris on the Seine to record with him. And he has a huge. Kind of. Almost like a warehouse room next to the studio filled with keyboards. Damon's face when he walked in there is. Oh, my God. You're like a child in a sweet shop.
44:54
I mean, I've got two buildings now full of keyboards.
45:12
But you don't have as many as. You can't compete on keyboards with Jean Michel Jarre.
45:15
No one has as many as Jean Michelle.
45:20
Yeah.
45:22
I think I will have eventually. His keyboard collection is extraordinary. It's jj, you know, and. Who is a lovely.
45:22
Yeah.
45:30
Human being.
45:31
Is he?
45:31
John Michelle. How's he doing these days?
45:32
Firm handshake. Good.
45:34
Firm.
45:36
Looks very young. Yeah. And he's still very busy. Very prolific man.
45:36
Not enough free jazz on his records. That's the only thing I. That's what I would say about Jean Michel's yard. It's all good. Yeah, that's fine.
45:41
But no, no, I think. I think free jazz is not the.
45:50
It's gonna be your next album.
45:54
I would say. 12 bar blues.
45:56
Yeah, yeah.
45:58
Was more what the. What I was alluding to.
46:00
We're halfway through the podcast. I think it's going really great. The conversation's flowing like it would between a geezer and his mate. Alright, mate.
46:03
Hello, geezer.
46:16
I'm pleased to see you. There's so much chemistry. It's like a science lab of talking.
46:17
I'm interested in what you said. Thank you.
46:23
There's fun chat and there's deep chat. It's like Chris Evans is meeting Stephen Hawking. It's the AI question. Oh, how do you. How are you guys accommodating that into your lives if you are?
46:25
We're not using it in our work at all. And in terms of does it worry us? I think we're in a lucky position that we're established enough that people want to hear our version of gorillas and AI version of gorillas. But if I was 20 years old, wanting to make a career as an artist, I would be stressing a little bit right now. But I think we were talking the other day that we're doing CDs for this album, which we haven't done for years because no one was buying CDs and now they're very much back.
46:42
Are they?
47:14
Because kids are demanding a better sounding version of a record because streaming platforms condense music. So they've made that decision. They want to have CDs. So I think like anything, you know, AI in terms of the entertainment industry, from music to art, will have a moment and then it will die off because people will want to see stuff made here and listen and see stuff made by people. And then maybe it'll be used for something more important like medicine or the stuff that maybe it should be used for. But in terms of creativity, I'm hoping
47:15
I'm concerned about it with medicine as much as I am within the world of creativity, to be honest with you. I've just bought myself a 300 CD random selector because I've got a lot of CDs and I haven't really listened to them for many, many years. In fact, I don't really feel like I've listened to music in that kind of way for over a decade because I just have. Because I've never really embraced the digital world. I've never streamed anything.
47:47
Oh, really?
48:14
No. Apart from kind of Netflix.
48:15
Yeah. But you're not on Spotify.
48:17
No.
48:19
Okay.
48:20
No, I've never been on that. I wouldn't know how to do that. And I'm not on Instagram, I'm not on X. Yeah. On Facebook. I'm not on anything.
48:20
So how do you listen to music then? Before you got your 300 CD changer?
48:30
I just listened to it, you know, I mean, I've got. I've got an old jukebox.
48:36
Okay.
48:40
Got a record Player. Yes, in that way.
48:41
Very retro.
48:43
Not really. Just. I mean, it's not retro if you never stop doing it.
48:45
I mean, it is if everyone else stops doing it.
48:49
Yeah, but I as you.
48:52
Oh, here we go. Come on, enough.
48:54
I'm not. I'm not. I'm not necessarily someone who, you know, is a slave to sort of fashionable behavior.
48:56
Yeah. I was going to ask you how the symbiosis of visual art and musical art works. Is it a process that's changed a lot over the years with Gorillaz?
49:04
It's quite. It's quite a relaxed process. We just hang out together.
49:19
So talk me through how this album came together then. For example, what's the first thing that happens with a project like this?
49:22
This one's got quite a specific tale to it. It starts on November 28th in Belgrade.
49:29
We were shooting the live action parts for the Silent Running video from the last album. And my wife was in Jaipur with her mother. They'd been there for a month and they were about to jump in taxis to the airport and come home when my mother in law, Ammo is her name, had a massive stroke and was rushed to hospital and went into a coma. So four days later I was on a plane to Jaipur. I was there from the 4th of December until, I don't know, 15th of January, dealing with that, trying to get a home in a coma, which was not easy. Should have been having the most traumatic experience of my entire life, which I was. But at the same time, I kind of really fell in love with Jaipur and the people and there was a lot of warmth and kindness and support and I just. We would go off and have adventures in Jaipur and it was just incredible. So when we finally got back to England, I saw Damon and said, we have to go to India to do something because it's incredible. And then a year later we were in India having our first trip, which we traveled around and we explored and we worked with musicians and had a fantastic experience. And then in between trips, Damon's father died, and then my father died 10 days later, which is the distance between when we were born. So by that point we were like, okay, well, we know what this is about. And where better place to deal with that kind of a subject than. Than India and their take on death and, and reincarnation as opposed to the way we see it over here, which
49:37
is some hope in a hopeless situation. Yeah, you know, India is a very open book for that. You know, many of the kind of ideas about reincarnation and the cosmos of find Their origins in ancient Indian culture. And you use the word Indian, it's a very broad church that it's. I always find that stuff because I say Africa, you know, India, it's the same thing. There's so much particular Varanasi, though. I mean, it's like nothing can prepare you for Varanasi.
51:16
Whereabouts is Varanasi?
51:49
It's on the Ganges Central.
51:50
It's like the spiritual epicenter, isn't it? It's where they have the funeral pyres.
51:53
There's been some kind of community there for 5,000 years, and they've been cremating bodies there for that long. So if you're there, you have a whole different feeling about death and rebirth. It just sort of seems to be so obvious.
51:58
My experience of being in this hospital for this time was that people were. Were crying and sad about the fact that that person was. They weren't going to see that person anymore in that form. But also there was a celebration of the fact that they were coming back, but they won't see each other again. So it was a very different sort of attitude towards death. And it kind of gave me a little bit of hope or made me feel a little bit better about the whole thing that you are coming back, but the possibility, the chances of me bumping into you are a million to one. But good luck in your new life and sorry not to see you like this again.
52:19
Was that part of your kind of spiritual sense before that time?
52:55
I've been interested in Indian culture through my parents since I was super young. Really. I mean, and I'm not exaggerating here. I listened to Ravi Shankar before I listened to the Beatles.
52:59
Because your parents were playing him.
53:11
Yeah.
53:12
Yeah. Have you seen the Monterey Pop film?
53:13
Yeah.
53:16
Da Pennebaker. Yeah. That ends with that extraordinary Ravi Shankar.
53:17
Yeah.
53:21
Performance.
53:22
Yeah. I mean, you know, and then the opportunity to work with Anoushka.
53:22
Who is Anushka?
53:27
Anushka Shankar. Right. His daughter, who's on this album, who's on this record and is obviously in that lineage and grew up playing with her father, felt very special to me. So these weird connections that weren't manufactured just sort of fell into place. And so this record ended up having this element to it about what happens when you die and how is that something we can believe in, what makes that possible in our imagination and our heart.
53:28
Did you respond in similar ways after your dads died?
54:05
We had different relationships with our dads.
54:08
Right. Okay. What was your dad like, Jamie?
54:10
Pretty tough. I didn't have a great relationship with him growing up at all. I think it got better later in life when he chilled out, but I still felt like I had to give some kind of tribute to him in some way, which is kind of within this album. But I'm kind of thinking beyond that now. I'm thinking about me, what's going to happen to me? Yeah, well, that's the freedom other family members and friends.
54:14
Sure.
54:42
You know, that's this. It's in the past now and it's a moment, but it's that thing when, as a man, losing your father, you kind of. You move up to that position, you become the patriarch and you don't have that. Well, I say safety net. I didn't really have the safety net, but you know what I mean by the father figures gone. So I guess the trip to India helped me with all of that to, you know, to. I'm not afraid anymore.
54:43
Yeah.
55:12
Do you feel that?
55:13
Yeah, I'm kind of living in the moment and enjoying each day as it comes and making the most out of every day and not really concerning myself with what's to come.
55:13
So did you feel literally fearful before, though? Did you feel like that was part of.
55:23
No, it's just that thing you learn when you're young and then, you know, as you get older, that little voice in the back of your head that reminds you of that thing gets louder and louder of death. Yeah. But I'm not worrying about it at the moment. That voice has gone quiet again for a while.
55:27
So what was your dad like, Damon?
55:44
Complex. I mean, I was hugely kind of influenced by my dad's ideas. My dad was a very interesting thinker.
55:47
Was he a teacher?
56:00
He was a teacher. He was a writer. He was artist. An artist. A kind of strange abstract mathematician. But I was very lucky. Both my parents were super creative and gave me an irrepressible creative itch and confidence. And confidence, I suppose. But, I mean, confidence is fantastic, but hard work is golden.
56:01
I thought you were going to slip into a line from blur, then.
56:30
Confidence is a preference, actually, for the habitual voyeur of what is known as.
56:33
You have a confidence that comes. This is my interpretation of what someone like you is like. You have a confidence that comes from your abilities, your musical abilities, and that is a incredibly valuable bedrock that then informs the way you look at the world.
56:40
I have.
56:55
I have worked at my musical ability almost daily for nearly 40 years.
56:56
Sure.
57:01
So it's not. It's not something that you're honing it. Honing it, yeah. No, no. But But. But you see, I see it more of why have I wanted to do that every day? Because I must love it, you know, And I do have the capacity to work hard at it. I'm very single minded when it comes to that. I, you know, I.
57:01
Well, you're evidently incredibly industrious and you can hear the work in a good way that. I'm not saying that it's over wrought your stuff, but listening to the mountain, there's so much care and detail and.
57:19
Yeah, I mean, I can do other stuff. Much more loose.
57:33
Yeah, sure.
57:36
It's just Gorillas in particular because it is a kind of soundtrack to an ongoing cartoon. It's a different mindset, you know what I mean? I mean, I'm playing, playing, playing, playing, playing, which I love doing as well. But it's not necessarily turns into records.
57:37
Yes. You use an effect on your voice on a lot of gorillaz tracks.
57:53
The 2D effect.
57:57
Yeah, but, yeah, that's something I kind of. It's a bit of a albatross, that one for me because once I. Once I take that off, it's no longer 2D, it's some. It's me again. You know what I mean?
57:58
Yeah, yeah.
58:11
So, yeah, but it sounds nice though.
58:12
Yeah, no, it's a thing. It's a thing and I'm within the world of the cartoon. I accept that that's how I sound.
58:14
Could you not take it off?
58:20
Because, I mean.
58:21
Take it off.
58:22
Yeah, yeah.
58:22
Do anything really.
58:23
But I think some musicians stay away from any vocal effect because they feel it puts a barrier between them and the listener in some way.
58:24
It's a world. 2D is a cartoon character.
58:32
So you're staying faithful to him in that respect. Even though when you're writing the songs, are you thinking about the characters.
58:36
It's your. It's your musical male blank, isn't it?
58:43
Right, yeah.
58:46
So you become the character.
58:47
Yeah, I mean, I don't worry about that too much. It's like, what would 2D say here?
58:49
Yeah, yeah, no, it's a much looser.
58:54
Very, very, very turgid. Very quickly. If I was worrying about that, you know, I'm not a script writer.
58:57
They're the reason we can experiment and do whatever we want. Because they're the band. So behind them we can literally do anything. There's nothing we can't experiment with and nobody he can't collaborate with or know where we can't travel to find ideas and inspiration. So it's total creative freedom, which is quite amazing to have that. And it has an audience who want more.
59:03
So even Van Moses.
59:28
Get.
59:30
Van Get.
59:30
Get him on the album.
59:31
That would be a great collaboration.
59:32
You two bouncing off each other. Weak high fives.
59:34
There's been a lot of stuff, guru stuff made in this studio over the years.
59:56
Yeah.
1:00:00
Many, many sessions. Yes.
1:00:01
Many, many, many sessions. Although this isn't the original carpet, when I left, they changed the carpet because
1:00:03
of the blood stains.
1:00:09
Blood stains? Every stain. Every stain imaginable was on that floor.
1:00:10
The grime from your yoga sessions. Who have you had in here, then?
1:00:14
Who haven't we had?
1:00:19
Who haven't we had? Marky Smith's been in here. Did you do Sean Ryder in here?
1:00:20
No, that was in there.
1:00:24
That was in the last studio. The one with Sean Ryder.
1:00:25
Yeah.
1:00:28
People like Grace Jones.
1:00:28
Grace Jones. Has she been in here?
1:00:29
Being initiated? A handstand just there.
1:00:31
Aged what, like.
1:00:35
Yeah.
1:00:36
100.
1:00:36
Yeah.
1:00:37
What's she like?
1:00:39
Still looking amazing.
1:00:40
She was in her mid to late 60s. She's incredible.
1:00:41
What do you chat to Grace Jones about?
1:00:45
Just anything.
1:00:48
It started in Jamaica, that, didn't it? Then she came here.
1:00:48
So, yeah, she had quite a lot to actually say about Donald Trump, who she'd known socially in New York. Right back in Studio 54.
1:00:51
Yes.
1:00:59
Yes. What was she saying about Trumplestiltskin? Did she think that he was unfairly maligned?
1:01:00
Is that one of yours? Trompelstiltskid.
1:01:06
She wasn't necessarily the biggest fan.
1:01:12
No.
1:01:16
Let's just leave it at that, shall we?
1:01:17
He gets too much publicity.
1:01:18
Yeah. Let's not talk about it.
1:01:20
I had a really.
1:01:21
We're just off to America soon, you know.
1:01:22
I had quite an involved dream about Trump.
1:01:24
People do dream about. My wife dreamt about him the other day.
1:01:27
Yeah. And he was really nice guy. I liked him in my dream.
1:01:29
He's everywhere, even in our dreams.
1:01:33
Yes.
1:01:35
You got along well with him in your dream. Really did.
1:01:35
Now, honestly, it's weird.
1:01:38
It's not like you.
1:01:39
I actually found myself really going. I quite like this guy.
1:01:40
People every. Everybody meets him. Not everybody, but people who meet him often say he's. He's good fun, he's nice to hang out with. That's the problem with the guy is that he's. He's got some sort of affability.
1:01:43
Yeah.
1:01:55
Oh, yeah.
1:01:55
That really combined with power. Does a number on people. But anyway, yeah. David Bowie died 10 years ago.
1:01:56
Yeah.
1:02:04
Did you spend much time with him?
1:02:05
A bit, yeah.
1:02:07
Did you ever work on anything with him?
1:02:08
We were going to make a record together. That was his Idea which I got obviously somewhat excited about, but it never happened. He started. It was supposed to start, and then he was on a tour and it was doing very well. And he said, well, I'm not going to stop until the tour. People don't want to come and see me. I don't know.
1:02:10
Is this Bowie we're talking about?
1:02:30
Yeah, yeah.
1:02:31
Do you remember when we lived together, we had an answering machine.
1:02:32
Yes.
1:02:36
And we had a lot of messages from. We had one from Pete Townsend. Hello, Damon, it's Pete. We had one from Chrissy Hine and we had one from David Bowie. Do you remember?
1:02:36
Yeah.
1:02:46
Hello, Damon, It's David Bowie here. And we never kept that tape, did we?
1:02:46
I always remember an episode of the Ozone. Do you remember the Ozone? Yes, With Jane Middle Miss and Jamie Theakston.
1:02:51
Yeah. Amy Thakston.
1:02:59
Well, I mean, we've got stories about any. Anyway, anyone who was like, in light Entertainment in the 90s.
1:03:02
Did you go nuts with Jamie Theakston and.
1:03:07
Yeah, and the Spice Girls.
1:03:14
I think you made one of them cry, didn't you? Huh? You were so mean to them. We went out with this idea that. I mean, the true story is we had an idea we wanted to do like a.
1:03:15
Why do you say that? But I made someone cry because I
1:03:25
was pleased I was there. We had an idea of remaking Derek and Clive with Ant and Deck. And we went to have dinner with them. We said, get you in the studio. Get a few drinks down you. And they said, beloved, the idea. But we're off to Australia tomorrow because we have a new TV program called I'm a Celebrity. Get me out of here. And we had a bit of a night with them. We ended up getting quite trashed, I seem to remember. But maybe it was somebody else. Maybe. But I remember a heated debate where somebody burst into tears. Maybe it wasn't one of the boys.
1:03:28
Dec is the smaller one, isn't he?
1:04:00
Yes.
1:04:02
Yes. Well, Dec was much more together than Anthony. An ant stayed and hung out with us. And I think Dick was a bit upset. The state and arrived and blamed it on us, which obviously is not fair.
1:04:03
Got on the plane to Australia with quite a hangover.
1:04:15
I don't know.
1:04:19
The story should get into a studio and record in the same way that
1:04:20
Derek and Clive did.
1:04:25
The same impulse that made us sing a cartoon bank would be a good idea, probably. I don't know. We were just. We were trying to be subversive and they were kind of into the idea, but they said, look, we're busy for A while. We'll get back to this. Maybe. And of course, we never did, because that program's been going for, I don't know, 25 years.
1:04:27
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's something I would like to hear. I'd like to hear Ant and Deck doing.
1:04:44
No, because we have. They were fun to hang out with, you know, that's like the rest of us. They have a few drinks and it was fun. We had a fun night.
1:04:49
Then there was the occasion where we ask the Spice Girls if they would like to participate in a new rendition of Stockhausen's Contact.
1:04:55
I just want to hear what Contact by Stockhausen sounds like.
1:05:05
Love it.
1:05:20
What would the Spice Girls do, though? Those noises.
1:05:22
Exactly. What would they do? It's. It's intriguing, right?
1:05:25
Yeah. To bring it back to David, you were quite rude about him in the ozone in 1995. I felt very indignant on his behalf.
1:05:29
Was I having a go at Tin Machine?
1:05:39
I did an impression of what you said. This is exactly what you said. But it's me doing an impression of you saying.
1:05:42
Hang on. I want to hear your impression of Damon.
1:05:48
To be honest with you, I don't think what he's doing now is particularly important. People who watch the Ozone don't even know who he is.
1:05:52
That's very good impersonation of David. You've even got that little whistle at the end.
1:06:00
I did work on it.
1:06:06
I love the way you prepared that.
1:06:09
That was in my audiobook.
1:06:12
Yeah.
1:06:15
I. I mean, there was something about the Tin Machine that was just particularly. Rubbish.
1:06:16
Yeah.
1:06:21
You know, I don't know what it was, but, you know, God compared the mountain of genius, I think, you know. But it's true. The Ozone was for kids. They didn't know who David Bowie was at that point. You know, the world of the Internet didn't exist then. You couldn't just saw something, you know, so. But everyone knows who David Bowie is now. I'm quite rightly, because. And, you know, massive. Massive, massive influence on me, you know, So I don't feel it bad about saying that. But thanks for bringing it up. Okay.
1:06:21
Reenacting it so superbly.
1:06:56
Yeah.
1:06:58
And of course, Bowie's last statement.
1:06:58
Yeah. It was heartbreaking. Yeah.
1:07:01
Bit of free jazz.
1:07:04
That's not free, Jeff. What does it. Do you actually know what free jazz is? No, because it's not that.
1:07:06
Is it not. Does Donny McCaslan not play any free jazz?
1:07:11
Free jazz is free jazz. It's where there's no chord structure. There's no destination. It's Just totally and utterly free. Everything else is not strictly free jazz. It's considered and, you know, charted. And to me, free jazz is just skronking, like, atonal. Yeah. I mean, you could put free jazz is the same as free pop. Free classical, it's the same thing.
1:07:15
What's free pop? I'd like to hear some free pop.
1:07:41
I can show you some later if you want. Participate in it.
1:07:44
Let's do some free pop. We've created a new genre.
1:07:48
Hey, welcome back. So that was the main conversation there. Hope you enjoyed that. We had to vacate the control room where we were recording. We ran out of time. Someone else was booked in there after us. By the way, I've posted a couple of pictures from that day on my website, in case you're interested in seeing some gnarly old guys. I bought a hat for Damon with the word cool written on the front. He very gamely posed with it, which I was happy about. And by this point at the end of that main conversation, I was beginning to relax. I had been quite nervous. I didn't know what to expect. Damon's reputation precedes him, and I wasn't sure how the thing was going to go. And it's always difficult when you're interviewing two people at the same time, especially if they have the kind of rapport that Damon and Jamie do. Talking over each other a little bit and having digs at each other every now and again. It's hard to navigate in the moment when you're recording. Also not that easy to mix when you're editing. But I felt like it was a really fun chat that we had had, and I was really pleased because I've got a huge amount of admiration for both Damon and Jamie. Yeah, Jamie was very nice about the podcast, and he was talking to me about some of his favorite episodes. And that's where you join us here. As I was packing up my stuff, and once again, I had my Dictaphone running to capture our conversation. And then I took it along with me for a short tour of the studios with Damon. Here we go.
1:07:59
I listened to the one you did with Louis.
1:09:45
Oh, I've done lots with Louis.
1:09:48
Yeah, I listened to one of them, which were very funny.
1:09:49
He's always funny.
1:09:52
Louis came to see us at Copperbox, and he came backstage and we were very excited to meet him. We had a nice chat, and then he announced that tomorrow I'm going to see Coldplay. And we were like, get out of the dressing room, Coldplay.
1:09:53
I feel like I stand up for Coldplay. I was so impressed. I was so impressed by him at Glastonbury and his crowd work and his thing where he improvises songs. You don't look convinced. Have you seen him doing that?
1:10:06
What do you mean, improvises songs?
1:10:23
He gets the cameraman to focus on someone in the audience.
1:10:25
Yeah.
1:10:29
And their face goes up on the jumbotron.
1:10:29
Oh, you're having an affair.
1:10:32
And then he.
1:10:33
Well, he did that. Yeah.
1:10:34
But he serenades the person. Or he makes up a song based on what they're wearing. Obviously the cameraman can do that.
1:10:35
Do it, then sing a song about you. Oh, Adam, by the way, you've dropped your zip to the bottom. I can see that within you are truly rotten.
1:10:45
This is not as good as the
1:11:01
stuff Chris Martin was doing. He was doing like properly formed songs.
1:11:02
And you think that that hadn't been pre prepared?
1:11:09
Yes. I think you're a fool, Simon.
1:11:13
Naive fool.
1:11:18
Simon Pegg is a friend of mine and a friend of Chris Martin's and he was there at that Glastonbury show. And I said to Simon, does he prep the songs beforehand? And Simon says, no, he doesn't.
1:11:19
Well, if Simon says
1:11:31
what, that he doesn't have chord sequences?
1:11:35
Yeah, he might have chord sequences. Sure, sure. Have you seen Marty Supreme?
1:11:37
Not yet.
1:11:43
Not yet. But I mean, I'm a massive table
1:11:44
tennis person because I know you boasted about beating Donald Glover at table tennis.
1:11:45
Donald Glover? I've never played Donald Glover. Who Earth. Did you get that?
1:11:50
You told me that story. Charlie's Gambino.
1:11:54
Oh, yeah.
1:11:56
Danny Glover.
1:11:57
Yes.
1:11:59
Anyone can beat Danny glover.
1:11:59
He's like 80.
1:12:00
I thrashed him. I frashed him with tape tennis.
1:12:01
I'm not answering that.
1:12:04
I would like to pay tip. I would like to play at the door.
1:12:06
You would like to play Timothy Chalamet? Yeah.
1:12:10
And I almost had a chance. Well, he was going to come here and there are a couple of occasions I've very nearly played Drake, who claims he's really good as well. I like. I like that. I mean, Les. No, Rio for. Not Les Ferdinand. Rio Ferdinand. Thrash me. But he's like. He was playing. Still playing for Man U then he was like a top athlete. They beat me on fitness.
1:12:12
Yeah, but who is the best hip hop artist, table tennis player?
1:12:35
Well, it was Kano, but I can beat him.
1:12:41
Kano.
1:12:43
Yeah, but he's pretty good.
1:12:44
And you're really good, are you?
1:12:46
I'm very street in my style. I'm, you know, unorthodox.
1:12:48
What does that mean?
1:12:53
Are you like jumping up and down and going way back like they do in.
1:12:54
Yeah, I mean, I. But, you know, all of those really good shots and they were all choreographed. They're not from open play. I did used to go to a club, Table Towns Club in New York, where there were a few kind of ex pros there who would humiliate Susan Sarandon. Yeah, yeah. We played like with a spoon or something, you know. Thrash you. It's so humiliating. Do you like Table Tense?
1:12:58
I can't play it. My sons like it.
1:13:26
Right?
1:13:28
Yeah, yeah, they're good.
1:13:28
They really competitive. I mean, you can't not be if you like it.
1:13:29
They've had big rows. They're table tennis. Rouse. My sons are like my monopoly. Rouse used to be with my sister.
1:13:32
Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
1:13:40
Really quite bitter. Okay. Will you show me some of your gear?
1:13:42
Yeah, sure.
1:13:47
Walking down the red corridors. What are these studios called?
1:13:49
It's called Studio 13.
1:13:55
What about your bells?
1:13:56
My bells?
1:13:58
Brass bells, yeah.
1:13:59
I had three bells made for the notes of the keyboard hook on Melancholy Hill, because there's only three notes. And I had them made. They're like £6,000 each. To get a. I was born in London Hospital in the sound of Bow Bells. So I went to the Bow Bell Foundry, which had started in 1630 or something like that, and they still got all the old, old tools. So I had these three amazing bells made, but I don't think one of them's here.
1:14:01
So you are an actual Cockney?
1:14:38
I'm a cockney, yeah.
1:14:40
So when people were accusing you of being a Mockney in the 90s, that must have.
1:14:42
I mean, really, People accused me going to public school, which is ridiculous. I went to Stoneway Comprehensive, which, believe me, was a very average state school.
1:14:45
Should I be following you?
1:15:02
Yeah, please. So the. So when you come here to work, you get to look in all of these cupboards, which are just packed full of keyboards. Oh, wow.
1:15:03
Beautifully labeled.
1:15:18
Beautifully labeled. There's a bit of Russian stuff left here, but I've got a lot of Russian synthesizers, but most of them are in Devon at the moment working on this score that I'm. You know.
1:15:20
Hello.
1:15:31
So I take different periods and different kind of sounds.
1:15:31
The Moog.
1:15:36
Little Fatty.
1:15:37
Yes.
1:15:38
The Chroma Polaris.
1:15:38
Yeah.
1:15:40
The Ensonic ASR10.
1:15:41
Number one. Yeah.
1:15:43
The Tess. No, it's not Tesco, it's teisco.
1:15:44
The rhythm six mark 700. The Casiotone. Oh, I love Casio. God, I love.
1:15:48
And each of these you have recorded with. Yeah.
1:15:54
And they're all different. They've all got a different story. And look at that. One of two. This is where when I'm in London, I work up here. Hi, guys.
1:15:57
Hello.
1:16:11
Adam Buxton is doing a Polaroid with us.
1:16:11
Sorry to interrupt.
1:16:14
Nice to meet you.
1:16:17
Now this is a keyboard from the Kraftwerks. Oh, really? Yeah.
1:16:19
Holy Moses.
1:16:24
This thing?
1:16:25
Yeah.
1:16:26
Wow.
1:16:27
Do you want to hear it?
1:16:27
Yes, please.
1:16:28
Okay, let me stick it in a nut.
1:16:29
This is just rendering. Oh. Oh my God.
1:16:31
That sounds amazing.
1:16:40
It's cool. Is it sexy?
1:16:44
So that's a base keyboard?
1:16:54
Yes, please touch it.
1:16:56
Whoa.
1:17:01
That guy. I like that guy.
1:17:01
Yeah.
1:17:03
Amazing.
1:17:06
Anyway, fantastic.
1:17:08
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
1:17:10
Wait, this is an advert for Squarespace.
1:17:21
My name is Yandry, author of the well selling book the Secret of Succeeding at Success. Many times people will say to me, Andrew. And I say yes. Then they say, your book was so well selling and yet it was not available in street shops or advertised in mainstream media. What was the secret of the success? Of the secret of succeeding at success? And I say, Squarespace. And they say, how do you mean? What Squarespace? Then I say, squarespace is a website where you can build your own great looking website using easy to use templates and tools in a matter of minutes. My Squarespace site made it easy for me to create an email campaign to tell everybody about the secret of succeeding at success. And with Squarespace's ecommerce capability, I was able to sell around the book until it became well selling. And they say, yandre, how can this happen to me? And I say, head to squarespace.com buxton now and start a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use the offer code Buxton to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Then we laugh and break dance together because thanks to Squarespace, we have become friends with success.
1:17:24
Continue.
1:18:31
Mind the gap. Yes, I mind the gap, but what is the gap? It is the gap of failure. All together now.
1:18:32
Hey, welcome back. That was Damon Albon and Jamie Hewlett of Gorillaz. A reminder that their tour details are in the description. I think there's still some tickets left for that London show in June. At the time of recording, I've got a note here from fact checking Santa that says Gorilla's ex manager did not manage Van Morrison. Perhaps because his name is Chris Morrison. Jamie was thinking that perhaps he had managed Van. He used to manage Blur, Elastica, Morchiba, Mid Year and John Cale, but not Van Van, if you're listening, hope you appreciate how hard I fought for you and you're welcome on the podcast anytime you can sing some Astral Weeks, I'll do some free jazz and you can slag off Damon. Thank you so much to Damon and Jamie for their hospitality and waffle skills. Speaking of live music, I do hope I get to see some of you at a few of the shows that we're doing. Me and the Adam Buxton Band, which includes various members of Metronomy. We kick off in Liverpool on the 1st of May, then we go to Leeds, although I think that is sold out. Exeter, Cardiff, Bath, Brighton, Margate, Buxton, Manchester, Leicester. That's all in May and then in June we play two nights in London 23rd and 24th at Hoxton hall and we have support for every show as far as I'm aware. I'm very pleased to say we're being joined by up and coming musicians Anna B. Savage, Clementine March, Bristol band, the Cindys and Talia Blee, or Talia Blay, who describes herself as a rising north London based dysfunctional rapper and visual artist. They're all great. I've met Talia and Clementine before but I'm looking forward to meeting Anna and the Cindys and just being in the world of live music with of course some great intersong bands from a buckles and I'll be hanging out after the shows, signing things if you want to get things signed, selling a bit of merch, you know, generally behaving like a music guy, which is my. Which has been my dream all my life. Have you been anyway, podcats. Hope you've been doing okay in quite extreme global circumstances. I haven't been too bad, probably looking at the news a little bit too much while I'm at my computer. But I've also been having a lot of fun doing successpod. Rosie is doing very well. Although we had a bit of a wobble earlier this year, didn't we Rosie? I was punished for wanting to get the most out of the day. Well, I mean you started waking up at 5 o' clock every morning and scratching at the bedroom door and then when we'd let you out you didn't want to go for a pee or, or like you didn't seem to want anything. You just hang around outside the bedroom door and then start scratching again if we went to sleep. And so for that terrible crime I was forced to sleep in the kitchen, which is where you used to sleep perfectly happily before things got altogether too lax and you started sharing our bedroom. Well, I no longer wish to sleep in the kitchen. The kitchen's fine for afternoon sleep time on the sofa, but not for nighttime. Yeah, I know. Well, you were yowling every night when we put you down there earlier this year. We were worried about you. So I got some advice from a dog therapist and she said that you would get used to it, but we had to be consistent and not waver from the plan. But it was really tough because you obviously weren't enjoying it it and we felt bad about it. Rosie is straining at the lead because she has spotted some deer action and wants to go for a little run. Hang on a second, Rosie. Well, there's no one around, so I'll let you off. Hang on. Anyway, my wife. My wife reckoned that one of the reasons Rosie was upset down in the kitchen was because she's now quite hard of hearing in her old age, like maybe pretty much deaf. So I think she wants to just make sure that we're around, especially at night. So my wife brilliantly built a special rosy platform over on her side of the bed. Previously she had just been in a nice comfy dog box, but a bit lower over in the corner of the room. Now she has a special my wife built platform over on her side of the bed so that Rosie can lie right there next to her at the same height as us. So my wife can, depending on how she's feeling, she can turn one way and snuggle with Rosie face to face or with the old guy on the other side. But it's done the trick. Rosie is no longer waking up at 5am and scratching at the door. She stays in her bed until we get up now. Anyway, so that's Rosie news. Okay, that's it for this week's episode. Thank you so much once again to Damon and Jamie and the whole Gorillaz team, especially Breed for enabling the conversation to happen. Thank you very much to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support. Thanks to Helen Green, she does the artwork for this podcast. Thanks to everybody at ACAST who helped liaise with my sponsors and keeps the show on the road, but thanks most of all to you. Hey, thank you so much for coming back. I hope you enjoyed that. And if you would like to be kept more or less up to date with what I'm doing with my very occasional newsletters, then visit my website, scroll to the bottom of the front page and sign up. There's a link to my website in the description of today's episode. How about a creepy spring hug? Come here. Oh yeah, Spring Fresh. Until next time we share the same sonic space. Please go carefully and if it's at all helpful, please bear in mind that I love you.
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