UAP EP 204 Brazil's Silent History: Three Incredible Close Encounter Stories The World Needs To Hear

Everybody talked about it since I first moved to Oregon. The big one. The earthquake that trashed the whole West Coast. Total destruction. Officially calling it the largest natural disaster in American history. I just didn't know what would help me next. So I took it all. Even the gun. It was time. See why American Afterlife is the number one fiction and drama podcast in America. Presented by Pair of Thieves. Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Available now. Yes, welcome back into UAP. Steve and Dean are back with you here, as always, on the Unidentified Alien Podcast for episode number 204. Well, on our way here. And I'm so happy we finally get to do this. You'll even hear him mention it at the start of the interview that it was something we were trying to do for a while. And that is this conversation with Rony Vernet. Rony is one of a kind. If you don't know his work, he's a UAP researcher in Brazil. And I think, and you'll hear me say this, but I think the work that he does in South America and in Brazil is so vital because we don't get a lot of news about the occurrences down there. whether, you know, and if we do, then some people don't hear about it. And it doesn't really, you know, hit the news cycle as much as other things. So this was something that I was really looking forward to doing because Roni is somebody whose research I follow for a while and it's completely fascinating. And I'm very much looking forward to you hearing this conversation because he goes over three different cases, three different cases that I had never heard of before. And maybe that's on me. Maybe I'm out of the loop. I don't know. Maybe I'm losing my touch. But if you've heard of these, fantastic. If not, then I think you're going to be as kind of flabbergasted as much as I was just in the aspect of why doesn't this get spoken about more? You're going to hear about 1977, Operation Saucer. You're going to hear about an occurrence in 1986, May of 1986, so exactly 40 years ago from now almost. They call it the Night of the UFOs. That's an incredible one. And we start off with the occurrences that took place in 2008 that now Brazilian military officials are actually active ones are coming out and speaking about, hey, this happened. We chased UFOs and we saw beings and we chased the beings. And they have actual military officials coming out and speaking about this publicly. And you really don't see this many places. You don't hear about it a lot of different places. And it's just as amazing as any other stories that I've spoken about here on the show. And that's why I could not wait to bring Roni on here to talk about these in detail so we can learn about them here on this episode of UAP. So get ready for this. These stories, I believe, belong in the pantheon of some of the most incredible, fascinating and compelling UFO stories that I've heard in a while. And I think you're going to feel the same way after you hear it as well. So right now, myself with Roni Vernette to discuss everything we just spoke about and more, actually, even maybe how some rituals, supernatural rituals might play into all of this really incredible stuff. Come back, of course, afterwards for some post-interview thoughts. But for now, myself with Roni Vernette here on UAP. Enjoy. Well, happy to have him join the show here for the first time. Roni Vernette, renowned UAP researcher and founder of UAPBrasil.com. Roni, great to have you on the show. I followed your work for a long time, and I'm really happy to have you on here. So thanks for coming on. Thank you. Sorry to not make it happen before, but I think finally we can meet, and I think it will be a great conversation for your audience. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it because you're covering a lot of things that are happening in South America, specifically Brazil, where you are. And I think this is actually the point I want to start off with here, Roni, is that, and this isn't to knock on anybody because I do it as well, I think we're all guilty of this, we focus a lot on what's happening in the United States. That dominates the news cycle when it comes to the UFO discussion. We focus on Europe. There are things that happen in Europe that we end up talking about, and sometimes there are things we do focus on in Brazil, namely Virginia, which we'll get to later on. But you do, I think, in my opinion, the best job out there as far as a researcher goes in really bringing people what's happening in South America. And it doesn't get enough coverage. And that's why I wanted to bring you on here today because there's some really important things that are very much worth people hearing about. So kind of starting off with something that you've been covering here, Rony, that happened in 2008. Before we get into that real quick, do you agree with that? Do you think that we don't pay attention enough to South America? that there is a lot that happens where you are that people don't hear about enough? Yeah. And people often say, oh, this phenomena only happens in the US because it's right. The US incidents dominate the news. I think the US Congress are doing a pretty good job and bringing more and more attention. This is one of the reasons why these people think about that. we also have the movies, the culture, the pop culture, and all this brings to US to become the center of these conversations. But I think we have great job, for example, from Americans doing coverage of Brazilian incidents like James Fox, for example. James Fox brought the Virginia incident to the US public and worldwide public. And I think we're starting to break these paradigm shifts to start to investigate more and know more about the Brazilian incidents because in Brazil we have a lot of cases of close encounters between militaries and including beings that we'll discuss today. So I think Brazil can contribute a lot. And I'm starting right now is doing this connection. So try to bring some military from Brazil to U.S. Congress and other people in the U.S. that can help us to merge and bring this conversation together, Brazil and U.S.? That's really interesting. I want to hang on to that thought because, you know, you mentioned the things that happened with the military, and that's what I find so compelling with some of these cases out of Brazil, specifically what's been happening over the past few weeks that hasn't really gotten a lot of coverage, like we said, out of Brazil, where you have military officials talking about an event that happened 18 years ago, 2008, where they had over 20 different sightings that were pursued, correct me if I'm wrong, that were pursued by the military. So what did you find out about this and what has been said recently by these military commanders or military officials who are actually coming out to say this happened? Yeah. A few years ago, we had some, obtained some documents. Who obtained was the Brazilian researcher Edson Boaventura together with an entrepreneur named Lauro Miguel. They are from the same state of Varginha incidents. It's not Varginha, but Claudio is the name of the city. And this incident didn't happen in 1996, but very recently, 20 years ago, in 2008. Okay. So a few years ago, maybe four years ago, we obtained documentation official from the military saying, okay, we chase it. Not only anomalous phenomena, but also beings. And in 26 occurrences, not one or two incidents is isolated. 26 occurrences. This is crazy. and not one or two military, but dozens of military, and not only the military police, because in Brazil, it's different from US, the police in Brazil is military. It's a state police, but all state police are directly respond to the Brazilian army. So they respond to the military chain of armored forces commander. So this is different for your audience to understand, what your public understand. So not only with police, military police, but also Air Force was involved, the army was involved, because when the military police encounter something anomalous, they need to respond to the hierarchy superior for them. that's the military, that's the army, that's the Air Force. And these officials from the army, from the Air Force start to inquire the military police and start to get all the photos, get all the materials, and literally steal the material from them. So this is what happened in Brazil. And the phenomena here in these incidents, they like it, they have a curious operational Curio's behavior of stay above the church of the city. It's like it wanted people to look at it. It wanted military to look at it. And maybe you wanted to make some connection between religious things and these UFOs. Maybe they are religious from religious people vision, but maybe they are just pretending to be connected to religion, connected to Catholics, for example, because it was a Catholic church. And after that, the military started to chase this phenomenon. The phenomenon ran away to the rural area for the more isolated area in the city. And at that place, more isolated start to appear beings. how these beings were they were luminous beings it was like grays with black eyes but totally luminous and they didn't have hands or feet they were three feet tall very small indeed and they floated like half head three feet from the ground sometimes six feet from the ground but above the plantations that they had there. They have sugar cane plantations in this place a lot. And they were floating above the sugar plantations. And the military were chasing them in many situations. Now, real quick, just on that point, Ronnie, real quick, this information, where was the, I just want people to understand this. This information that you're telling us about came directly from the military witnesses. Am I right about that? Yeah, the first report was written by the commander there that, and ironically, the name of this commander is Eisenhower, which is the US president that many people say that was connected to beings and a lot of stories about that. Wow. And what I always say is that this phenomena have, it can be good or bad or evil or neutral, whatever. But it has a lot of humor, sense of humor. Because the phenomena could choose many military around the world, many military in Brazil, and choose the commander Eisenhower in Brazil to appear for him. So it's unbelievable. And this military is a grandson of a German. So this is because his name is Eisenhower, which is a German root name. And this report also was written by Eisenhower, this commander. And it was unbelievable because it was the first time that a commander was, at the time, he was a tenant, a first tenant. And he written the report, okay, we chased beings. And not only that, he wrote in the report that the beings also messaged with his mind, his mind and mind of his colleagues. He was not able to carry the gun, to point the gun to the beings. Sometimes the beings were not, didn't appear, simply didn't appear in the camera. They fear, they felt a lot of unbalance, they felt dizziness, they felt a lot of physiological effects when these beings were close to them. And the beings were even able to create things that were not physically there. For example, the military were chasing the beings and the beings created in the mind of the military the illusion that a lake was there, a big lake. Wow. But physically, there was not any lake there. It was only to the military stop the car and not be able to continue chasing the beings. So it is well written in this report. I don't think I've ever heard of that before. Have you, just real quick, on that detail about making the military see something that's not there, so they essentially slow down in their chase. Have you ever, I've never heard of a detail like that before, where they're being shown something, an illusion, that is just simply not there. Yeah. I don't think you've ever heard that. So the beings were able to put in the mind of the military everything they wanted. Wow. And I translated this report to English. I can send you so you can pass also to your audience. And it's the first report where we have directly the military saying we had contact with beings. We had physiological effects emanating not only from the phenomena, but also with the beings. The curator thinks that the phenomena, not the beings, but the phenomena, the lights, were able to turn off all the lights of the city. The lights were also able to stop the car of the military. The car simply didn't work when the light was closed. So we had electromagnetic effects and they also have physiological effects in the body of the military. And it's all written in this report. And this is the first time, as I said, that we have physiological, electromagnetic effects and beings also witnessed and directed by the military and written in a report. have a lot of testimonies, have a lot of conversations, but not official documentation. And this is official military documentation saying that. And I think this never happened in the world in any incident. And this military was very courageous because he was at the beginning of his career in the military police. The military police itself was very courageous to release it. And I think I understand why they released it, because the Air Force made them to do things that they didn't want. They practically humiliated this military police, inquiring them, give me everything you want. No, this is for me, for example, this photo is my particular equipment, no matter what. Give me your equipment, it's mine now. So I think the military police was not happy with all that happening. And maybe this is one of the reasons why the military was able to release this report to the public through the Brazilian Freedom of Information Access and responded to this research, my friend at São Boaventura. So this happened four years ago. It was released. This case from 2008. And right now, all the military decided to speak about it because the report was released. But any military wanted to speak about that, afraid for his careers, afraid to not be promoted, all the things we know. But now all these military decided to come forward, at least seven military, including a lieutenant commander, which is also something unprecedented because the last commander and the only one commander that came forward to talk about close encounters was Wiranji Holanda from the Operation Souser in 1997. and right after that he committed suicide. Until these days, we don't know if it was a suicide. I believe it was, but we have some questions because people are treated when they talk about that. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooklinen, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? 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We're being denied any sort of justice. Listen to Bad Women presents Stolen Sister, wherever you get your podcasts. And right now, we have this testimony from this lieutenant commander, together with all these other military sergeants and master sergeants and privates in all classes of officials that are coming forward with him to say, OK, yes, we chase it. This phenomenon and these beings. And right now we're trying to give voice to this military to to to speak more about it. It's it's I mean, it's an incredible story. It should be this is a story that should be all over the place. I think, I mean, that's why I'm so happy I got to talk to you about it today and bring you on to talk about this because I'm not seeing a lot of coverage on this. And I feel like it should be spoken about everywhere because here we have multiple military officials with, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, everything to lose and nothing to gain by talking about this. you know like you said you know they have to worry about same thing U.S. military members or agency members have to worry about losing their jobs losing pension losing promotions losing their life quite frankly you know threats to family and to themselves these are all things that we see over and over again with these intimidation tactics and I think from what you're saying they're at risk for the same things, but they're coming out to talk about it, about this incredible incident that is almost like Roswell and Rendlesham mixed together. I don't know how else to put it, where you have these sightings. I think you said 26 different sightings, and you have beings coming down with craft, luminous beings that are floating above the ground. Eyewitness testimony of military officials chasing these things. They're stopped. They can't shoot. They have these illusions in front of them. This is something out of a movie, Roni, and these people are talking about it, saying that this really happened. Not only did they have a close encounter with a craft, but they had a close encounter with a being that they were completely and totally powerless against. It was also the first time when this commander, it was happening just one month ago, this commander came in an official event of the police. This lieutenant commander is retiring right now, this year. And this event was a change of command because he was a commander and he was passing the command to another official. So he could retire later this year. So in this official event, he was able to do a speech. And in this speech, he talked about, yes, it was real. Wow. The non-human intelligence is here. We chased them. We were very courageous because the people were calling the police to get help because these beings were affecting these people in small communities. And the people were asking for the police help. These beings are here everywhere. Wow. Not in the downtown city, but in the rural areas, the more far locations of the city. And the military was very courageous. We pursued them. We are not the only intelligent beings here. They were also humanoids. We chased them. And this was in military uniform, in an official military event, in front of his commander, a colonel, in front of all these colleagues. So this is unprecedented in the world. Yeah, wow. And this is why I'm putting a lot of effort to try to contact everything I can to talk about and to bring this military police to the Brazilian Congress, to U.S. Congress, and all people that are interested to interview them. And as you said, this commander mainly, because he is the commander, he's very courageous because when he retires, he continues to receive payments from the government. So the government can make any excuse to remove the payment from him. We know this can happen. It happened with David Grush in Order, for example. So his guy is just saying, I need to tell the truth no matter what can happen with me. Wow. And this is unprecedented. Yeah. And so sorry, I lost your last question. No, no, no, no. That's OK. Because I was I was just thinking about, you know, how should people react to this? How should people take this? Because this is something to paint the picture. The video is out there and I'll try to share it as we put this episode out just on social media to share the video that I know you have on your page as well on on X. And this is an official like you said, this was like an official ceremony. and I think it seems like he didn't tell anybody who was going to do this. Was this just like, hey, here's this ceremony. I'm handing over the reins. Oh, and by the way, all this is real. We chased aliens and I'm telling you all about it. I mean, that's pretty much how it happened. He just like dropped this on everybody without any warning? I think yes. I don't think he made any alerts to people. I'm willing to talk about this in this event. He just came there and did this speech. And I think people were very surprised with this speech. And this is so unbelievable that when I posted it in my Instagram and it gave almost a million of views on Instagram, half of the people said, this is AI. Because it's so unbelievable. Right. And this is not AI, guys. This is real. This is a fact. military coming forward and he is coming forward with many many details that will shock because as i said it was 26 uh occurrence many many profound experiences happening with this military it was like the phenomena wanted them to be the guys to spread the word he wanted this military to to to live the experience i don't think it's not a coincidence that this military was choose because Because I can guarantee you that 99% of the military commanders that passed the fluke experience, it would choose to stay silent about that. Because you know the stigma, you know the problems that they can't pass. And I think the phenomenon choose exactly the right military because I think the phenomenon is intelligent enough to see in the near future and to predict or to know, I don't know. but to know that this military would, 20 years after the event, start to talk about that. And this is incredible because the military is retiring right now in 2026, exactly the year where the President Trump is talking about that, the events and the Congress, and all these timelines are shifting, merging together. And I don't think this is a coincidence. I'm with you. It feels like that convergence is maybe the path that maybe, who knows, maybe it was a path that was set and we don't even know. I know I'm getting a little metaphysical there, but it's worth considering because this topic is incredible enough on its own. And it's just an unbelievable occurrence, Roni, because when we talk about this, am I getting the title right? He was a lieutenant colonel that came out to speak about this? And he will retire as a colonel. Okay. Watch the top rank of the military police. The military army can go to generals, and the military police at the top are the colonists. Okay, so basically he's top of the top. He's like top of the food chain, if you will. And this is a guy that's, again, everything to lose, but he comes out, total shock to everyone, and says, this did happen in 2008, and here's how we experienced it. And so I mention that again because it can't be overstated, really. Like, imagine if we try to analogize that to something that happened in the United States. Think about a top general. Think about maybe the attorney general of the Department of Justice. I don't know. Something like that. Some top government or military official to come out at their retirement party and say, or maybe like Marco Rubio, okay, like Secretary of State, to come out and say, thanks for everything. It's been my pleasure to serve you. Oh, and by the way, this happened. I mean, that's essentially what took place, I guess, what, about a month ago or so or a couple months ago in Brazil with this lieutenant colonel. And now we have this story that is just sitting out there where you have military officials, including a colonel at retirement, who are willing, not only willing, but have spoken about what they have seen. And I guess the question is, what's next? I mean, how do we continue to get the word out there about this story for people to realize just how monumental this is? Four of the military already gave partial testimonies. They didn't talk everything they know because there are some profound details that they think that if they say the complete testimony, people will say that they are completely crazy. So they just gave the testimony about the parts that are more easy for people to digest. This lieutenant colon, as I said, is retired this year. I talked with him and he said for me that we were able to speak more when he retires. Because the same reason, he has many, many profound details that he don't want to speak right now. Because he knows how it is ontological shock. but he'll be able soon to give interviews to the TV for a podcast and so on to the Congress. And I'm trying to talk with everyone to spread this word and because it's very serious and I think we'll be able to do soon a public hearing at least in Brazil maybe also in the US if they want with this military because it will be the first time in Brazil that have a real public hearing with military because the past ones, we only had the researchers and the politicians. But this would be a real one and the first one when they say, I'm a direct witness, first-hand witness of encounters with beings. So this will be unprecedented. Yeah, and I think what makes this different is, you know, at least from, and not to take anything away from the whistleblowers and the witnesses here who have come out. We all know who they are as far as who has testified in front of Congress or otherwise who have come out to say, I worked on programs or I know people who worked on programs. But that's kind of where it ends, right? They talk about maybe what they were told about what was being worked on, whether that's reverse engineering or we have bodies stored away somewhere. But this is the first time, and I think this is what makes this really unique and really important is that this is the first time where you have official military members or police who are coming out to say, not only do we know this happened, but we experienced it, and here's what we saw in this official manner. So this is, you know, maybe I'm forgetting something, and I'm sure there's been other, maybe a couple of other occurrences where we can compare and contrast, but this feels like a really big moment where you have these official military personnel to come out and say, this did happen and we chased these beings and we saw these craft. Hey guys, so before we get back into the conversation, I just want to talk about something that affects all of us. And it's scary starting something new, right? It's hard and it is kind of terrifying because you think about all the work that goes into it. Are you going to be able to succeed? What new challenges am I going to face? It's that uncertainty, but I know how that is because I can think back when I started UAP, I was just hoping for the best. And it's just like that when you're starting your own business. That's why Shopify is so great and why I'm so happy to be able to talk about them. Because despite all the fears and hesitations when starting something new, it certainly helps to have a partner like Shopify on your side to help. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Death Wish Coffee, Brooklinen, and Kylie. But what if people haven't heard about your brand? Well, Shopify helps you find your customers with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns. But what if you hit that wall and you get stuck somewhere? Well, no problem, because Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer support. Tackle all those important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. Everything is all in one place with Shopify, making your life easier and your business operations so much smoother. So it's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash UAP. Go to Shopify.com slash UAP. That's Shopify.com slash UAP. What are the 26, Roni? We say 26 different occurrences or sightings. How do we classify the 26 that you're mentioning? 26 days of operations. 26 calls that the population, in 26 different days, the population asked for the military to act. So it happened from November to December, almost two months in these 26 events of 2008. And they experienced three types of beings. The first one is like a gray being big head with black eyes, but totally luminous, totally luminous and floating. The other one was six feet tall, seven feet tall, like this small one that was three feet, but six feet to seven feet tall, also luminous with black eyes. And the third one, what is also crazy is that the third one was brown with red eyes and three parts of the head, like the Virginia being. Yeah, exactly. And they also encounter one of these beings there. And so maybe we have a connection. We have more data. We can do a connection between Virginia that happened in 1996 and this case in 2008. Yeah, that's really fascinating. I did not know that part where they saw the same type of being that was described in the Virginia incident in 1996. The brown skin, the red eyes, the three kind of parts on the head. That's incredible. And he said that this brown being was four to five feet tall. It was the height that the commander said to me. Yeah, and again, matching the description there of what we heard before in the past. Are we talking about... It sounds like, Rony, we're talking about tall grays and short grays. I mean, just if we're trying to categorize these things, it sounds like we're talking about tall and short grays. They match the descriptions that we've heard from experiencers and abductees and researchers. But the thing that makes it different is the luminous description. Do we have any... I mean, do you have any idea why they would appear as luminous? it was the same effect. It was like the beings were using the same effect these objects, the phenomena, the UFOs do. They become luminous to cloak, to have anti-gravity and so on. So maybe these beings were using the same devices. But this is a materialistic view. I have some non-materialistic view also that maybe this phenomena can appear in any form or any shape that you want. but the patterns are the same. So he can appear like a luminous vehicle or a luminous being, whatever. So maybe the craft itself, it's something alive. It's some hypothesis that we can put. Wow. Wow. I mean, it's... And I don't know. What I'm curious is these are different types of phenomena or the different aspects of manifestations of the same phenomena, different shapes of the same phenomena. Or, for example, multiple factions, these luminous gray beings were here because of the brown ones, and they are not friends. So I'm curious to talk with the commander if he was able to get any data about that. Because, as I said, they had psychic connections with these beings, and maybe they received images in their heads or messages and something like that that can clarify some kind of operation that they were doing there. Did they ever say what they felt like their intentions were? I mean, just kind of with that thought going with that, did they ever say we felt like we were threatened, we felt like it was peaceful? Or, I mean, did they ever say kind of why they felt like they were there and why it was happening to begin with? They only said that they had fear in this report. And also, it's fear mixed with a feeling of, oh, this is fantastic. I never saw something so more fantastic than that. They cannot avoid to see that because it's so unbelievable and so wonderful. So it's a mixing of feelings of fear and something wonderful. Wow. It's really something. I mean, just to – because I do want to get to a couple of other things, but this is just such an incredible story. And when we kind of take it back a little bit too we talk about there so much that happens in South America that isn I think it doesn get the proper attention Another example of that is what happened in 1997 A name that you brought up a little while back here was Colonel Holanda I believe I'm saying it right, where in 1997 he had a similar, actually, event as the lieutenant colonel that we're talking about, where he spoke about how they chased down, had these sightings in the 1970s 70s and chased down these craft and then and you had already mentioned it there um he was found dead he was found hung and you know obviously ruled a suicide other people say was there foul play involved to make it look like a suicide of course that is up for debate but i mean so can we connect these maybe not directly ronnie but can we connect these just as far as the history of the phenomenon in Brazil goes where you have that 1997 event with Colonel Hollanda to now where we're talking about the Lieutenant Colonel what he said happened in 2008 yeah this was the most important event in the historic phenomenon in Brazil it was and again a lot of coincidence the Colonel Hollanda at the time he was captain but when he came forward he was Colonel retired. He spoke 20 years, also 20 years after the incident. So the events happened in 1977. He came forward in 1997. And after that, he unfortunately committed suicide. This was very profound because it was the first time a commander came forward to speak directly that, like this case, he had many incidents with anomalous phenomena, but at that time, the military incidents was not with beings. It was only with different shapes of UFOs. The Colonel Hollander had experience with beings, but after the operation, he said he was abducted, that the beings came and put him an implant on his arm. He had an object inside his arm with any any signal of entrance in his scheme. And he said that he started to see also in his home poltergeist events. Things were floating. His car was turning off and turning on alone. And he had like this hitchhiker experience after the operation. But during the operation, the official documentation, we don't have something like this case where the military, during the military operations, had these experiences. with the beings itself and written reports about the beings like that. This is not happening in the Operation Saucer. This is the difference, but it was a big step to break the stigma about this topic. And it was the biggest, until now, the biggest experience, the biggest thing in history about the phenomenon in Brazil. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned the name, Operation Saucer, 1977. So what did he say about that exactly? just that they were like officially investigating ufos but it had been denied up until that point yeah the phenomena affected uh two states in brazil uh and even in a minor incident a third state so he covered a lot of the area in north of brazil the mayors of the cities was all desperate because the phenomena was sending lights to people in these communities and taking blood from people And this was confirmed by exams that people did in these villages. And so the people were completely in panic. The people were traveling to other cities to avoid the phenomena. Even the priests and the police chiefs were also running away from this phenomena. So this was the time when the Brazilian Air Force needed to go there and to investigate. And this is why Operation Souser happened. They just had so many lights and so many things showing up that they were trying to figure out what was going on, essentially. Yeah. And the main fact is that these people were affected by these light beams and the blood was taken from these people. Many had permanent sequela, permanent injuries about these attacks. And I could visit some of the families that was affected. and they had some type of brain damage together. And this is why this case became so alarming for this military to go there. So we're talking about physical effects in 1977 that Colonel Hollande came out 20 years later in 1997 to speak about before his death to say this is what was going on. We were investigating some type of UAP. I know we weren't using the term 97, but some type of UFO phenomenon in interaction with other beings in 1977. So we had physical effects that were medically documented for people. They were getting physically affected. You're saying they were taking their blood. They have physical effects and everything? Yeah. And they were in a state that the red cells were taken from them. They had a deficiency in red cells. Wow. So they were anemic. I don't think the English word is enemy or something like that. Enemy or something like that. Yeah, you got it. It's a disease when you had the deficiency in red cells. And this was the main problem there. The people being affected, being injured. And as I said, some people had permanent sequelae. At that time, we also had animal mutilations. That's something that people normally don't say about these incidents. and to have a lot of people missing. So I have everything happening in this area in the north of Brazil. I want to play skeptic real quick, Roni, because you do have a lot of people, obviously, who, and this isn't to put anybody down. I've said here for years on the show, always decide for yourself on what's going on as we discuss it. But for the people who aren't entrenched in this, who haven't investigated it like you haven't spoken to the witnesses and spoken to families, what do you say to people who would come back to you and say, well, how do you know they're not just making this all up? Like, how do you know that this isn't just some crazy story to get attention, that these military officials are just making this up to maybe get back at somebody or to maybe get a book deal or a movie deal? The people are just saying it's mass hysteria, so they're imagining it. How do you know this is not just being made up? Yeah, we have the official reports from the military detailing how the people were affected and describing drownings of the craft that they saw. We have many photos that was released. And we have the medical testimony, the doctors that attended the people. We have the people itself coming forward. So we have many, many cross testimonies and documentations that if it was, for example, a murder case, it was completely resolved. But obviously, we don't have the scientific approach because we don't have the data. For example, we have 16 hours of videos that Air Force never released. We have many hundreds of photos that Air Force never released. So we have this lack of some data, part of the most compelling data, showing, for example, a video of a craft emerging and becoming illuminated, emerging from the river, from the water. And it was never released. So we have some skeptics talking about that because we don't have the most compelling material that was never released. So this is why I have this conversation of skeptics between people, their beliefs. But as I said, we have plenty of material in this incident to say something really happened. We don't know what happened, who was responsible to do that. It was something human, very technological advanced, some black budget experiment, or this was non-human phenomena. So this is something that we cannot say, but that was something that very strange that affected people. This is no doubt, no question about it. Yeah, and I think that's one of the main points, too, is that we're talking about people over different cities, different towns, different parts of Brazil, who are not only separated by distance, but also by time. What I mean by that is when we talk about the events of 1977 versus Virginia in 1996 versus what happened in 2008, the 26 straight days of events that were taking place, you're talking about events over 50 years of time. And it would be, to me, it would be pretty hard to get everybody to align over 50 years of testimony on three separate events. So it seems like something is happening, I guess, is what I'm trying to get at. How would you best explain what you've researched here, Rony? How would you best encapsulate this and put this all together for someone who is just hearing about these cases for the first time, whether it's from 1977 or 2008? Because normally we just hear about Virginia. When it comes to Brazil, the first thing we think about is, oh, Virginia. But then we hear about these. So what do we say to people who are just hearing this and they're kind of trying to take it all in like, wait, this stuff happened? Yeah. And including 10 years of the Operation Saucer, we're heading is completing right now 30 years this year in May. The Brazil was completely invaded by UFOs. We call here the official UFO night where all the military air force had to dispatch fighter jets to chase this luminous phenomena. and the commander of the air force at that time he had to do a press conference to say yes we did it we don't know what is and our fighter jets could not afford the superior technology of this phenomena and he also brought this press conference all the pilots the pilots were there to say yes i was there i chased it it was unbelievable i don't know what is so we have in brazil a long history of of military each 10 years we have some case some big incident happening here um and is this unbelievable close encounter so the phenomena is no doubt his interest in brazil i don't know why uh i have a hypothesis that the phenomena itself is controlling its own own disclosure because it's something, something high intelligent that maybe is here for millennials. And I think maybe he's controlling his own disclosure and maybe using this Brazilian context, because in Brazil, we're more transparent. In Brazil, we have many, many religions here that deal with this spiritual world and the metaphysical. So we are more open. We are less materialistic maybe than the other nations. I don't know. And we are more open, the military, are more open, the government to talk about that. And certainly the phenomena being intelligent and maybe more intelligent than us, he knows that. And maybe the phenomena choose Brazil. And I think the phenomena is only happening here because the phenomena wanted to be seen. I don't have any explanation to why the phenomena is appearing to this military to create this type of behavior of press conferences to military needed to coming forward to say what they they they experienced it um so i think the phenomena maybe is controlling it and choose brazil because of the culture because of the openness i think maybe using brazil as a tool to to prepare for something um to guide the humanity for something to to maybe to deviate for for for some plan the phenomena have good or evil i don't know or neutral i don't know what the plan is but probably using brazil as a tool to disclose itself and to guide us in some direction that i don't know what direction is that's fascinating because i think there is a connection i've always thought there's a connection that isn't really brought up a lot when it comes to south america brazil obviously specifically but there's a lot from peru there's a lot from chile um there's there's a lot of different stories, incredible stories like we're talking about here. Of course, I had on Timothy Albarino here a few weeks back and we spoke about, in one instance, we spoke for over two hours, so we spoke about a lot of things. But one of the things that we spoke about was the face peelers coming out, that episode coming out of Peru, that instance, a few years back, I think it was October of 2023. So we hear about these things and now we're We're talking about physical effects from Operation Saucer that was investigated in 1977 where people are low on red blood cells. We have the animal mutilations connected with that. So there seems to be some type of connection or direction or something special. And maybe I'm losing my mind. And maybe I'm digging way too much into this, but there just has always seemed to me that there's something special about South America when it comes to the phenomenon. Do you think I'm way off on that or am I kind of like on the same basis as what you were just saying? Yeah, I started with a very, very nuts and bolts materialistic view. I'm an engineer, a physicist, and so I was always a science guy. But more and more I dig in this phenomena, more and more I go to this non-materialistic view in the sense that, for example, Varginha, I believe, is connected to some rituals, some summoning rituals. because if, and this is in my documentary, I created a documentary, two years of investigation about Varginha, that's the dark side of UFOs in Brazil, power, money, and rituals because I was just uncovered that all this territory where the Varginha beings appear, they were using for black magic and summoning rituals from very, very rich people in Varginha, people that owns almost all the land in Varginha, And he was not alone. He was studying these summoning rituals with other powerful people in the region. And we have also in, for example, not many people know that. I think most of people don't know that. But in São Tomé das Letras, what's the city closer to Virginia? In the 60s, this city was, there was a hip movement there. All these people using psychedelics came to the city. And they start the movement with alternate society with famous Brazilian singers in Brazil. They wanted to create an alternate reality community there using psychedelics and so on. And they also wanted to, they founded the Telema here, the Telema from Alex de Crowley, which is known to try to summon beings and so on. So this is, I think we, and also in Brazil, we have many, many places very isolated, very preserved nature. We have many, many indigenous communities also practicing these rituals. Where we have in this Amazon, for example, where I was in 2024, the orbs were visiting the indigenous inside their houses. And they there practice rituals with ayahuasca and other herbs there. And we have in Brazil a lot of religions that mixed African and European magic rituals to create new Brazilian religions. And this responds at least to 5 to 10 million in Brazil. It's a lot of people practicing rituals there. And you are starting to see in this phenomena, for example, some organizations like Skywatcher and others doing this summoning. these psychic connections to attract the phenomenon. And I think for us in Brazil, this is something together with the Spiritism, with Ubanda and Candomblé and Kimbanda and other religions that we have here, plenty of religions that do this for decades, decades long we do the summoning of these entities. And I think maybe this is one hypothesis that could explain. I don't think it's something alone. I don't think it's only this, But all these contests together with the openness, with the culture and so on, could explain why we have in Brazil all these phenomena happening here with this aggressive connection to people, these close encounters and so on. So this is a very strong hypothesis for me. Yeah, that's fascinating. But it was very difficult to accept because as I said, I was very, very nuts and bolts. And it was really hard to accept, But I don't have any other explanation after these years of investigation. Incredibly fascinating. I mean, do you think, and maybe this isn't the answer to everything, but you mentioned like Aleister Crowley. I mean, you mentioned some of the ancient rituals that are taking place. Do you think some of this is coming from a dark place? I mean, an evil place? Do you think some of this is evil in nature with some of that stuff in mind? And again, just a hypothesis. Yeah for example if you get the mutilations the pattern of the mutilation is very very similar to the mutilations that black magic rituals do The difference is that when you have these anomalous mutilations like people say chupacabra and these other beings, they were completely clean in the way that clear cuts, without blood, the incision was made using a tool. And when a human do that, it will do in a completely dirty way. It will stay blood in the area. You have many, many, many characteristics that you can say, oh, it's a human that did it here. So I think sometimes the phenomena is influencing people to do for example, mutilations, the sacrifices for them, these dark forces. And sometimes the phenomena itself is coming here, materializing here and coming here to do the service. And I think this is one of the hypotheses that I'm considering. And the two ways, different ways, because when the phenomena materialize here, the phenomena is present here, it demands energy, it's physics. And I don't think this is the most economic way for them to come. So the most economic way, the main road for them is to maybe influence people like they did with this military psychic influence put things in the mind putting ideas in the mind so maybe the the humans can do something for them without them to need to interfere here and directly so maybe i think this is happening very very interesting i mean and i think there's a lot of answers to it but you know it seems like maybe that could be one of the reasons why things happen the way that they do because of different summoning rituals it's very possible um before we're done here roni i did want to bring up something two things actually that you mentioned earlier that i wanted to bring back around there was something that really piqued my interest when you said 10 years after operation saucer so i guess sometime in the 80s there was a different incidence where they were chasing the military was chasing ufos did i hear you say that right sorry well the operation saucer you're talking about or uh 10 years after i think you said maybe about somewhere in the 1980s okay Okay, okay. Was it? 1986. Okay. 1986, May, 1986, in May, is the official UFO night. Official UFO night was this incident, completely different from Operation Saucer, where the Brazilian military traffic controller saw this phenomenon invading all the territory of Brazil, and all the military air bases had to dispatch fighter jets to chase the threat. That's incredible. And it's happening in all the territory of Brazil. How is this? I mean, maybe I'm just, you know, not with it, but I like to think that I am. I like to think I keep up on these things, but I don't feel like that really gets spoken about. I mean, we're talking about UFO night in Brazil, May 1986, where it's literally they're seeing what they interpreted as some type of, you know, invasion possibly, where they're now sending out military jets to respond. I mean, this is an all-out effort to respond to something that they're seeing coming in. So, I mean, what happened here in the end? Yeah, in this incident, the phenomenon was staying above oil refinery, energy generators, military bases. It's like the phenomenon was doing some search, some research about our infrastructure. And military, I think, were very afraid. This happened also in US right now. The phenomenon is always in the nuclear bases, in the water reservoirs. And the phenomenon did the same in Brazil in 1986. It's like, I think the military maybe can think they were mapping. And so this could be a threat in the future. So this is why the military dispatched the fighter jets, not only because the phenomenon was there invading, but because of where the phenomena was. Right, right, right. What did they see? I mean, as far as craft are concerned, were these just kind of like bright lights in the sky? Because it almost sounds like the drone incursions over the eastern part of the United States in late 2024. I mean, did they see lights? Did they see actual shape to these things? Did they get low to the ground? I mean, what did witnesses describe them? Yeah. They saw only orbs. Different shapes, different sizes, and different colors. Okay. So a lot of... So luminous bodies, yes. So a lot of different orbs, essentially, that were coming down. And that was just one night after that, those incursions stopped? Yes, it was one day. It happened during one night. It was Raikau, the official UFO night. and the day after that, because all the population in most cities of Brazil was able to witness that, and it was impossible to hide. So this is why they had to do a press conference about that. Right. Are the media more open there when it comes to this, and the military, the government, are they more open to discussing this as, you know, and not to say that we're not here. It's more now than it ever has been, but it's still kind of looked at a little bit with a side eye. It's being taken most seriously it's ever been taken here in the United States, but it still kind of gets that, you know, a little like, you know, I'm not sure how to take this look by some of the national media or by some in the federal government. Is it different there? Is this taken more seriously in Brazil or in South America as a whole? Much more open than U.S., I think, both the military and also the media, more open than US and other parts of the world. They treat it very serious. And there are waves where the commander is more open to release things. There are other times where the commander is not so open to talk about that because he's afraid to open and people question and make more and more questions and they don't want that. They don't want to acknowledge that they can't protect everyone with a phenomenon that can invade here all the time you want. So have these waves of openness between different times. Yeah, and so I'll finish on this, Roni, because this has just been, I mean, educational, I would probably say for sure, fascinating and super compelling. So I appreciate the time that you put into this here with us today for UAP and for everybody listening or watching. But I want to go back to something that you said at the beginning that I think is a really important note for the future. You mentioned that you're trying to work with people to get some of these military officials to work with U.S. officials, whether it be Congress or otherwise. What has that process been like for you? And do you feel like that's something that might be able to work out to get these officials or your colonels or commanders or might be more out into the open in front of more eyes and possibly even United States officials? Is that something that you feel like could take place? Yeah. Senator Eduardo Girão from Brazil was the responsible to organize the last public hearing in Brazil in 2022. and he was last year in the US to talk with Eric Burleson about Varginha. And they did a collaboration to try to do a conversation with the military, to try to share data between the two countries. And I have contact with Senator Gerão, so I'm preparing a memorandum, a document about this incident with this military to send for them. and also to send i have connections to send them for the u.s congress and for u.s people that could help to to make this conversation happen both ways but logically uh when i pass it to senator gerald he also has a disconnection with eric butler so and they can talk about that also very good um just just incredible stuff roni and again i really appreciate you doing this uh Hopefully we can stay in touch because, again, like I said at the beginning, I really appreciate your work, what you've done in the research field on this, and kind of taking that approach, like you said, kind of nuts and bolts, that engineering mind, and kind of taking that approach to this to start with and just trying to get the details. Just try to get as many facts as you can, and I think that's exactly what we need. I know you have a lot of stuff online, whether it's uapbrazil.com, you have your documentary, you spoke about dark side of UFOs in Brazil, money, power and rituals. So how can people find more about what you're doing and follow along? Yeah, people can go to my YouTube channel in the membership area. I have this document because it's a way to finance other explorations of their missions in Brazil. Brazil is a continental place like US. It's very expensive to do these travels and so on. So people can support my work so I can do another investigations and dig more and more. I'm starting a project to do more field explorations in Brazil to get more data with more better equipment. So people want to support my work. Just go there in my YouTube channel, youtube.com slash Rony Verne. and also in X. I think in X, I spoke more in English with people worldwide. It's where I put all the news, what's happening in Brazil. So people want to stay toned about what's happening in Brazil. They can go to X and that is also my first documentary that is open. It's free for all. It's in YouTube. People can search for Phenomena in Amazon, Indigenous Encounters. So people will find this documentary. area. It's not in my membership area. As I said, it's free and you can just start watching. It's awesome. Absolutely. Ronnie Burnett, thank you so much for coming on here. It's my pleasure to bring you on. And like you said, hopefully we can do it all again soon. Appreciate it. Thank you. Well, thank you again to Ronnie for coming on here. You know, you heard us mention at the beginning, just some backstory. And I even mentioned it in some of the other episodes, how schedules didn't align. Some different things happened where we had some clashes on the schedule. And this is actually something that we've been trying to get done for about two or three weeks now, but better late than never, as they say. And so I'm just really happy that it was able to happen and that I could bring it to you here today because, I mean, you heard it, whether it was that case in 2008 that we're talking about that is now just becoming public, the 1977, you know, Operation Saucer there, 1986, the 90 UFOs, where it was public knowledge that these things were being chased. So there's so much more than just Virginia. And I don't mean that in a, you know, dismissive way because Virginia in itself, and I've said this before and I don't go back on it, I believe is one of the most important cases ever in ufology because of just for the sheer fact of the amount of material witnesses and the biologics that go along with it, the medical studies, the medical proof, there is so much that goes along that the military, just like with us, military aspects with Virginia. But these other three stories that we spoke about, absolutely, in my opinion, go along with the lore of Virginia as well. I mean, when we talk about active military members talking about an occurrence that took place in 2008, And they're saying, we chase these things. And it's just the ramifications of this should be felt. And I hope that these stories get more play, that they get noticed more through this interview that I was able to present here today on the show. Because you have that and you have the 1977 case where that was spoken about in 1997 by the Colonel there, Colonel Holanda. You heard us talking about him. and then he winds up dead. I mean, how eerie is that? How familiar does that sound to some things that we've heard here in the United States just recently with the cases, the 13, the 14 missing different scientists or military officials who have either been killed or have gone missing. And then we hear about this colonel in Brazil who speaks about Operation Saucer where they had all these different occurrences that were investigated. He talks about it 20 years later in 1997 and then he just offs himself, he just hangs himself just like that. Listen, there absolutely could be other circumstances there that I need to look into myself that would point to a clear suicide that is absolutely possible. But you can't help, at least on the surface, when you first hear that, to be a little bit suspicious given the story that we're telling. That's my thinking behind that. And then, you know, incredibly, and you probably heard my surprise during it, When he mentioned that 1986 occurrence, the night of the UFOs, as he refers to it, where you actually have military pursuit and what they called an invasion. They had so many different lights coming in, all these orbs, these glowing orbs. They had so many coming in that it was unavoidable to have the public notice it. And it became so bad that they actually had to scramble military jets to go and take care of this. So, I mean, you were, you know, in their eyes, maybe it sounds like hyperbole, but in their eyes and what Rony was saying at least 40 years ago, they were, in their estimation, fighting off an invasion. I mean, think about that. And that doesn't get noticed. That doesn't get spoken about. I mean, that's in 40 years. That's the first time I've heard of that story. Again, maybe that's something that you've come across and if so, fantastic. But if not, then you just learned about it at the same time as I did. So there are just so many things here that I'm so glad that we got to learn about them. Even the supernatural aspect of it, the summoning, having to do with some of that dark magic or dark spirituality that Roni was referring to. Does that have anything to do? Does that play into this at all? fascinating to consider all the details here, but my goodness gracious, absolutely adding these to the list of stories that should be thought about more, spoken about more, and investigated more, and I'm happy we could do that here today. But with all that said, we will move on to the next episode, and if I get to do another month in review, which I would like to do at the end of May, then I can assure you I'll revisit this in a little bit more detail at that point. But As we move on, we'll get to our next episode coming up here with Ron James, Director of Media Relations for MUFON. Very prolific documentarian, award-winning documentarian, of course, within this topic. And he's coming out with a new movie, Accidental Truth Part 2, if you will. And you'll hear about that in detail. Accidental Truth was something that he came out with a few years ago, and that made pretty big waves in the UFO community. and I was happy to bring him on to talk about the next installment of The Accidental Truth and we'll do that coming up on UAP. And then, of course, much more. I mean, we get into a lot of the current topics of the day and get his really, you know, kind of like unique perspective of someone who's in media relations with MUFON. You know, you put kind of both of those together. I was really kind of interested to pick his brain on how he views the current media coverage, the current media frenzy around the UFO topic and how they seem to be taking it more seriously in most aspects. So we get into a lot of that, and it's pretty darn interesting, I think. So I think you'll enjoy that coming up here on UAP. But aside from that, of course, continue to search out the show. Tell everybody about it. Download and subscribe. Just wherever you find a podcast platform, all the major ones, just put in UAP, and you will find the Unidentified Alien podcast as well as on social media, YouTube. just put in UAP Podcast you'll find it there a lot of the videos of what we've been doing here and on social media at UAPodcast850 you'll find what I'm doing there as well and follow along especially on Twitter I spend a lot of time there so make sure to follow along on that front as well to keep up to date on things but with all that said that will do it here for today on this episode of UAP so glad that we can do this very very happy honestly I'm very I'm elated even that I was finally able to get this out here I'm even more happy with how it came out. It was even better. Just in my opinion, in my humble opinion, this turned out even better and more surprising than I even anticipated. So super happy that I could bring this to you here today. But thank you all again for everything, for all the support. I couldn't do it without you, so it means the world to me. So until next time, it is Stephen Diener here saying, be well. He'll talk to you again soon. Thanks so much. Right here on UAP, the Unidentified Alien Podcast. Thank you. you