Dave Grohl

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human. Hey, I'm Nora Jones. And today I'm reliving playing alone with Dave Grohl. I'm just playing along with you. I'm just playing along with you. Hi, I'm Nora. And with me is Sarah. Hi, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I am good. Today we're revisiting one of our favorite episodes from the archive, our episode with the one and only Dave Grohl. Of course, he's been a legend in rock history from his time with Nirvana to Foo Fighters. And I love this episode because I feel like you just see a different side of him. Yes, this was a fun one to record. I love playing with Dave, have known him for a long time. And it's a good time to revisit this episode because Foo Fighters have a new album coming out. That's right. It's coming out April 24th. It's called Your Favorite Toy and the title track is out now. So be sure to check that out. Yay. So if you missed it the first time or if you just want to hear it again, here's our episode with Dave Grohl. Hope you enjoy this episode. The funniest part of that whole Kennedy Center experience was hanging out with Stephen Tyler. Oh, he was a hoot. He was amazing, but I got stuck behind him at a metal detector. Oh, no. And it was like a good 20 minutes of my life. Why is he made out of metal? Ring, ring, ring, ring, necklace, necklace, necklace, necklace. It was just like, I know. I felt like I was at Tiffany's. It was completely insane. But yeah, what a crazy experience. You know, one of the coolest things about that that weekend was there was that rehearsal stage that was off to the side. First of all, I grew up in D.C. I grew up outside of D.C. That's right. In what town? In Alexandria, Virginia, just outside. And so, as a kid, we would go to the Kennedy Center on field trips or sometimes there'd be a show and the family would go. I saw Beatlemania there when I was a kid. And so the Kennedy Center was always this really, really special place. Even just to go, it seemed like one of the museums, almost like a museum of music. You had the Smithsonian. But then to go to the Kennedy Center was such a huge deal. And then to be invited to it to play. And so I was I was freaking out. I'm like, oh, my God, this is the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. That was the first time you'd been invited to do something there? No. OK. I went once when they were honoring the who. Ah. And it was during you guys can come in. It was during the George W. Bush administration. So you felt conflicts? Well, yes, I didn't necessarily agree with a lot of the politics at the time. But one of the things that was really cool about those Kennedy Center. Events. Was that people could kind of put aside their differences and just be there for the music. Yeah. And. You know, you go to those receptions and you would meet people from both sides of the aisle. And having grown up outside of D.C., the reason why my family moved to D.C. was because my father was a journalist. He was a writer and he was a conservative Republican. My mother was a public school teacher and she was much more liberal Democrat. So I kind of grew up in this world where both of those things can coexist. They divorced, but whatever. I was kind of in the middle of those two things. They found a common thing. So, you know, I could hang out with my father's friends on the weekend when I was a kid and we'd go to Georgetown and, you know, they'd sit at this bar and have cocktails and talk politics and not really everybody agreed on everything. But they could at least like sit and have a cocktail and talk politics without like a brawl. That's kind of what we're missing these days. Totally. That old environment, that fun, like all the president's men, like VW Bugs and Corduroy's and cigarettes in the elevator and Scotch on the weekends or whatever. That's how I remember Washington, D.C. much different than it is now. But anyway, but being at those events. Getting to really sit and talk to. Different people at that one with George Bush W. You know, they do the metal ceremony in the East Room of the White House. And afterwards. It was around Christmas and afterwards they said, Hey, do you want to get your picture taken with the president? And there was that part of me that was like really. Kind of politically conflicted. But then I decided, well, we're here and we're here to be a part of this event and you're here to honor the musicians or whatever. So I. My wife and I walked into the room next to the Christmas tree to get our picture taken and I greeted the first lady and then I said hello to him. And I mean, I look like this, right? I don't look like a Marine or a Republican or a politician or anything. And he looks at me and he goes really loud. He goes, where are you from? And I was like, just right over the bridge over there. We're facing like the South Lawn. I'm like, well, just over in Virginia. He's like, oh, what are you doing here? I said, I'm doing a song with the for the who. He's like, oh, cool. And we get a picture taken and then I go downstairs at the time. Jordan, my wife was pregnant and we, she had left her coat in the coat room and I was going to try to find it before we went down to the Kennedy Center. So I was downstairs looking for the coat room and was lost in the White House. And all of a sudden these secret service people come through the hallway and they're like, they're like, everybody step aside. The president's coming through. And I kind of like hugged the wall and here he comes and he's walking and he looks me down the eyes and he goes, I'll see you down there, dude. And I was like, oh my God, I want to get wasted with this guy. Like I want to totally hang and have cocktails and stuff. That was the thing, right? That was the thing. Oh, but the one, the one for Paul that was so cool. There was that rehearsal space that was sort of on the side of the main stage. And I was sitting there waiting. I think Stephen Tyler was performing, rehearsing his thing. And I looked and I saw there's a house band and I saw one of the horn players was Blue Lou Morene from the Blues Brothers band. Wow. And when I was a kid, I was obsessed, fucking obsessed with. I had Beatles records, Steve Martin records and the Blues Brothers record. And that was like, that's my musical foundation. Like Steve Martin and the Beatles. That's it. That's perfect. But then to see Blue Lou and he was kind of sitting by himself in the corner and I walked up, I starfucked him so hard. I was just like, Mr. Marine, he's like, yeah, I'm like, oh my God, I freaked out so bad on him. That's so fun. Yeah. I mean, yeah, meeting people like that. You probably made his day, too. He was probably stoked. I just, I still honestly feel like that. Um. First of all, like meeting those heroes, like it's never a lost on me. Yeah. I never go, hey, what's up? It doesn't seem like it is. Yeah, it doesn't feel like that at all. It's that first moment of feeling like, oh my God, that person's real. This is like 3D. This is actually happening right now. Yes. But then he's over time, he's started to realize like, oh, it's kind of just like this community of people that like to play music. Yeah, it is. Like it's it can be as simple as that. Or you could flip out and, you know, meet one of your big heroes and lose your mind. But I do that, you know, there's there are also times where I get more nervous to meet people who are relatively unknown, like punk rock heroes. Yeah. Then there was once when we played a music cares thing and we were doing a song for Neil Diamond. I didn't grow up listening to Neil Diamond. I did it for this friend of mine who passed away. His mom was a huge Neil Diamond fan. So I flew her out from Virginia because I thought, oh, shit, if we do this, she'll get to meet Neil Diamond. This will be huge after losing her son. Like this will be huge. But I never listened to Neil Diamond. So when I met him, it was just like, oh, yeah, he's like this cool dude. Like I didn't freak out at all. But then like the first time I met the singer of like the Jesus lizard or the dead Kennedy's, I'm just like, you know, completely lose my mind. When I met you, I felt really. Like a stone, like I don't know what your memory of it is, but when I came in to sing Virginia Moon, yeah, I was like. So excited to meet you, but I don't know how to show it sometimes. And it gets inward and then I look like I'm a stone. There's something I do that's weird like that because I grew up air drumming to you. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, shit. I I have this vivid memory of listening to Nevermind in my aunt and uncle's bedroom, spare room and just like air drumming the shit out of it. Are you a drummer? I'm a I'm a I'm a drummer on the inside waiting to come out. What are you waiting for? No, but I would just like go nuts and I don't know. So I was excited to meet you. Wow, that's so weird. But well, I was nervous to meet you because you're an actual musician and there's not too many of those around here. Yeah, well, in our world, it's just a bunch of people that like. I feel like we all are, though. I mean, you know. Actual musicians, we are all actual musicians. That makes me feel so much you're an actual musician. I'm an actual musician. You are an actual musician. Sometimes I don't feel like it doing this. I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? How do I play this song? Really? And usually when I get in the room with the person and then we're doing it together, it's like, oh, yeah, I do know how to do this, but I don't know. Sometimes it's like you go in a room with someone and you overthink the moment. And then the moment is just an easy moment. And then if you overthink it, it becomes difficult. Well, there's also like I'm sure at this point you feel like with your voice. Your voice sounds so beautiful and so natural that I can't imagine you have to think much about singing. And that's kind of the way I am with drums. Yeah. Like I don't really have to think about what I'm going to do next. And there's sort of this and not that I'm the best drummer in the world, but it's like there's this. You're kind of out there. There's this there's this disconnect from like. Or maybe it's a connection from my head to my hands. Yeah. And my body will just do the thing that fits with the music, you know. So whenever I sit down and play the drums, it's like I feel totally at home. I feel totally comfortable and just like, good, OK, well, this is like it's relaxing to me. Even if it's like beating the fucking shit out of the drums, to me, it makes me feel really, really happy because I just get to let loose and not think about stuff. But that's the best. It's the best. Whereas everything else I do, like in the Foo Fighters, you've made it hard on yourself. Totally. Why? I mean, I honestly think like. After Nirvana ended, I had the opportunity to go keep playing the drums for other people. But I kind of knew that I could do it. And then there was this other weird thing that I had just experimented with in the studio where I was playing guitar and I was singing and stuff. I was unsure if I could do that. And that was really a big part, like, OK, I did that. I know I can do that. So I'm going to try doing this other thing. And the intention really was like basically just to keep playing music, but also to do something that I didn't really know. That I could do it. And that was sort of the excitement of doing it. I think the challenge is exciting. Right. Without question. It's it's and then once you do it, it's like, yes. Yeah, like if you really nail something. Yeah. I was explaining this to someone recently that we were talking about my daughter Violet, who has this fucking beautiful voice. She's amazing. She's got this great voice. And she's just like intrinsically musical and can figure out instruments really quickly. And she's got amazing pitch and this really soulful voice and she's has it. She's the real deal. And she sings with this confidence, which is kind of beyond her years. It's almost like she's been doing it her whole life, which she has. But when she gets out to play live and someone said, God, she's so confident. Did she get nervous? I'm like, oh, absolutely. But we were talking about those like 30 steps from the side of the stage to the microphone and the courage that it takes just to go from here to there and then go to it. That those 30 steps, that's 99% of it, just to like run out there and have the courage to bury your soul to a bunch of people or, you know, what she does. She's such a sensitive, beautiful, brilliant person. But like most artists, she has this real vulnerability for her to like just stand out there and do it and then to do it the way she does it is like, wow. Yeah, it's a thing. She's got a beautiful voice. I agree. She's got a great voice. OK, let me try. You want to try statues? Yeah, let me see what this guitar does. This is you on piano on the recording. It is. Oh, my God, this is so dumb. It sounds great. OK, so. This is a long time ago. This is, I don't know, 15 years ago or something, 14 years ago. My birthday was coming up. And my dream car was like an old Dodge Hemi. I think the car from Blue Velvet. I can't remember if it's a Challenger or a Charger, but like a really bad ass, like 70s, like muscle car. And I've been talking about it a lot with my wife. Kind of hinting, but not obnoxiously. And my birthday was coming up and she's like. She's like, wait, do you see what I got for your birthday? And I'm like, OK, she goes, you need to be here on Tuesday. It's arriving. And I'm like, she got me the fucking car. I was so fucking psyched. And. We have this long driveway that comes up to the house. And she's like, OK, it's here. And we were standing at the front door. I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to hear a muscle car coming up the driveway. It's going to be fucking amazing. And I'm sitting there waiting, waiting. And all of a sudden I look and there's two guys pushing a fucking piano of my driveway. I had never played piano before. Never. No, ever. And I was like, oh. Thank you. And so. So eventually I started sitting down at it and just figuring it out. And, you know, it was really cool because having done this my whole life, this is guitars, my first instrument. And having done that, just like having this new like template or palette and the notes are kind of funny. And then your hands are doing these weird things. It was really like I felt like a kid. I felt like I was just starting over with this thing. And I started writing a bunch of piano songs. And yeah, this is maybe like 16 years ago. And and this is one of the songs. And one of the things that I loved about about the piano was that it kind of opened up my love of AM Gold Radio in the 70s. That's the shit I grew up on, like Jerry Rafferty and Andrew Gold and Phoebe Snow and Helen Reddy and Carly Simon, shit like that. That's the kind of stuff I listened to when I was a little kid driving around in the car with my mom. So I still have this love of kind of really gentle, melancholy, pretty melody and harmony. And the guitar line in this is totally Baker Street by Jerry Rafferty. OK, it's exactly what it is. Actually, if I really remember. I'm totally just trying to remember. OK, I think that's cool, though, because I think when I started playing guitar, I wrote a bunch of songs that were totally different from anything I would have ever written on the piano because I was limited to certain chords that were just different than what I would normally play. And I think that's the best. Well, also, and I'll explain it and maybe some of the other songs that we do. I really only took a couple of guitar lessons when I was young and then I just started to kind of figure it out. But I kind of look at the. Guitar as a drum set in a weird way. So a lot of the stuff that I do is sort of percussive and they're all kind of syncopated drum patterns like. A song like Everlong like that. And so I'll use like the lower strings as as like kicks and snares. And then I'll use the higher strings as symbols. And so when a chorus comes around, I'll do more like. And let those sort of those notes hang out like I was washing on a symbol. But yes, it was cool to figure out songs on the piano. That's cool, the way you think about it. OK, let's see. Wait. I like you use all these two chords. I use what? Two chords. What's that? Is that what that is? Yeah. Oh my God, am I going to learn about music today? No, I'm not going to teach you anything. Oh, you know what's funny? Actually, there was once when there was this. We decided to take Violet, my daughter, when she was little, she was like four or five to. To this class called piano play and the there was just these little kids. And the first thing they do is they try to teach you sound recognition. And you don't have a flight or something you have to get to. I talk a lot. I can't help it. So I have a book called The Storyteller. It's available on Day Street Books. Yeah, where they sit down. The first thing they do is they do sound recognition and they're like they teach them the sound of like a saxophone and then the sound of like, you know, a cello and things like that, just to attune their ear to whatever. And I would take her and we'd sit on the floor and it was really fun. They would do this thing with puppets where there was like, there was like, I think the lion and the mouse and the lion was like the low notes and the mouse. I know it's whatever. And then one day she comes in and she puts a white board down like a dry erase board and she goes, OK, and she drives a circle and she goes, this is a whole note. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to learn how to fucking read music right now. You finally will. Yes. It's hysterical. Amazing. All right, let's see if we can do this. One, two, three, four. You and I were too old and tortured souls repaired by love. Broken things in a life just some bodies growing old. No fear of the end of anything. We're just ordinary people. You and me. Time will turn us into statues eventually. We got by the we never needed much. Sliver of hope. Diamond rings. We got high. It was and it was hell. Fly over them. Broken wings. We're just ordinary people. You and me. Time will turn us into statues eventually. Just ordinary people. You and me. Time will turn us into statues. Eventually. Our bones forever in stone. Mine you've been survived. To dust, everything must be fading away in time. We're just ordinary people. You and me. We're just ordinary people. You and me. Time will turn us into statues eventually. Just ordinary people. You and me. Time will turn us into statues eventually. That's nice. Wow, I've done that. I got choked up while I was singing that. It's a heavy song. It's really beautiful. That was so pretty. Holy moly. Thanks for letting me play piano. You should have played it. Are you fucking kidding me? There's no way I would have been able to pull that off. That was beautiful. I don't even know the chords. Well, there's a C sus. There's a B flat. It's got all these extensions. It's got a major 7 and a 9. I noticed learning these... What is that? It's numbers to say what note you're playing. Cal, okay. DERP. It's pretty... You do a lot of those... Oh my God, I'm going to learn how to read music right now. You do a lot of major 7 chords in these songs. Play a major 7 chord. Wait, what was that? It's the A. Is that it? Yeah. I mean, it's funny because I literally don't know the names. I know the cowboy chords, but I don't know. Which is kind of awesome because I don't ever know if something's right or not. I don't know what the name is. I don't know what the name is. I don't know what the name is. I don't know what the name is. I don't know what the name is. I don't know if something's right or wrong. I don't have any version of right or wrong. There is no right or wrong. Well, yeah, but sometimes... I would never encourage someone to not take lessons because I think it's great to know your hands and the thing and where you're going or whatever. But I do like the mystery of really not knowing... You know, when I was writing the... I can't not play Virginia Moon. I totally forgot it, but... Yeah, I know. We got to do it. I mean, it's a... It's like a jazz song. Shit. What are those chords? I don't know. Honestly, I had a hard time figuring them out. Right. But I feel like you're going chromatic. Is that how you wrote it? You just kind of went chromatic and then used your ears. But that's the way you have to do it, right? Okay, well, let's move on before we get to that because who knows? I'm sure you'll find out. I'm sure you'll find out. Okay, well, let's move on before we get to that because who knows? Anyway, so... Music's so rad. Music's so rad. I want to ask you... I was at the Gordon show yesterday and I got to meet like Billy Eilish for a second. Yeah. And I was still in cold sober, like nothing... I'm a fan. Like, I love her. I think she's amazing. Yeah, for sure. I just said the stupidest thing, you know? Like, when you get to meet somebody that you like and you want them to think you're cool but you also want them to know that you think they're cool. And... What do you think I've been doing this whole time, Nora? Okay, so this is my question for you. How do you do what you do? I feel like everybody, as I've learned, everybody is just awkward and nervous all the time. I used to think it was just me, but it's everybody. But you don't seem like that. Ugh. You don't seem like that stuff inside, because you just seem like one of the least... I'm a mess. You seem the least like that of everyone I've ever met. Well, I think maybe... I definitely get nervous when I meet people that I really admire or people that I've wanted to meet. But, you know, I think that it might be that both of my parents were very... social. So my dad, working on Capitol Hill or working in politics, it's like he dealt with people, right? And he could work a room. Like, he could hang with the jazz musicians and talk jazz. He was a classically trained flattice and a super jazz nerd. He could hang with the jazz musicians or like Alan Ginsberg and then go like party with Bob Dole or whatever. That's you. He could really... He could do that. And my mother is a public school teacher. Both of them also were like in communications. I know that sounds so nerdy, but my father was really good at public speaking. He could write speeches. He wrote speeches. He was like a PR guy. And then my mother, she taught public speaking and she dealt with fucking teenagers. It's one of the reasons why I think I had such a great childhood. I really did because being raised by a public school teacher, it's like she understood the mind of a child in all of its phases and could really sympathize or empathize or whatever it is. Like the shit I was going through as a teenager is like a rebellious punk rocker. It's like she dealt with that. Bullshit all day long. But I was her kid. There was real love. But I don't know. I mean, I always think like imagine... You imagine a backstage like you're hosting your friends at a barbecue or something. And I like to make sure everyone's got a drink and everyone's happy. You're hosting. But then also when you go out in front of a bunch of people to play music, I used to get really fucking nervous. Like nervous, nervous. I had an anxiety attack once on stage at an Irvana gig. And this set off like a good 10 years of anxiety before every show. Where it was before the record, Nevermind came out and we were opening... Or no, maybe it was our own show. I can't remember. We might have been opening for Down to Sword Junior, but it was at the Warfield and the curtain was closed. We were opening the set with the song Polly, which is just Kurt on guitar and me just sitting there singing backups. And then like hitting one symbol. So no way to like exercise any weird nerves or anxiety. It's like your hands are tied down a little bit. It's terrible. And so you're like strapped into this ride. It's not moving. And so the stagehand guy who was probably like wired on blow or whatever, he kept coming over like two minutes, are you ready? Two minutes. Oh my God. I'm like, no, I'm totally fine. Never been nervous before in my life. And then he's like one minute, you got one minute. Oh my God. And I'm just like, okay, Jesus fuck Christ. And I wanted to make sure that my kick drum was in place. So I go, douche and hit it. And the PA was on it was like boom. And the audience goes, wow. Right as the curtains open and the Warfield, it's like a wall of people. You know, it's really tall with a balcony. And I was just like, and I started having this. I almost fainted. Whoa. God, it was terrible. And every show from then on, I was fucking terrified. Every show. For 10, food fighters. Whatever show. Festivals. That's crazy. It just set it off. Dude, I couldn't get, I couldn't get rid of it. It was terrible. Who was that guy? And then I don't remember why I changed. But now when I walk out on stage, it's like, I see people that I've seen for like 30 years almost. And like that, the kid in the front row, who was always in the front row, is now an adult with a mustache and his kid is on his shoulders. You remember these people in the front row? I remember faces like, I swear. But that's the thing, because I also like engage with the audience. And I like to say like, hey, what's up? We're here. You know, hi. Yeah. I know for the next three hours or whatever, but to be able to like really, to feel comfortable in that sort of connection or communication where you're just like, you can really see the people in the nosebleeds. Yeah. And I got way off track with that fucking question, but. But no, it relates to everything. I mean, it's interesting because, you know, you seem so good at being around people is basically the question. I do, but I also like getting stuck in traffic sometimes. You like getting stuck in traffic? By myself. So that you can like look at people next to you and. I'm like here in my car. I'm like, yeah. Like I just get to go like. Because you are you exhausted by being yourself? I'm so tired of being myself. No, but like, yeah, I mean, it's hard to be alone. I mean, you also have a big family. You have. I'd, yes. A big band. And it's really rare to be alone. Right. Well, this is one of the reasons, but like, I'll wake up before the sun. Like I wake up at fucking 430 or five in the morning. Oh, wow. Just so I get a good two hours of like. Quiet. And then it's like, wow. Yeah. But no, I mean, you know, I also love, I like to meet people. Yeah. Well, no, it seems like that. It is fucking cool. You get to meet so many people doing this thing where it's like, I really do like meeting people and talking with them. And it's great. You know, in Virginia, growing up in Virginia, people talk to each other in Virginia. That's true. It's a different thing. You kind of like, you're at like, you're at the subway sandwich place or whatever, and you wind up having a conversation for like seven minutes. Maybe this is why I talk too much. I talk a lot sometimes. Like if somebody asked me directions in New York City, I'll go above and beyond. And they're like walking away like, okay, dude, I'm sorry. Yeah, we're done. You know, like, no, but you got to go left. But then there's that store. Oh, and there's a coffee shop. I'll talk to strangers like that, but I won't, you know, I don't know how to talk to people that I'm meeting always. Hey, I want to play drums. I want you to play drums so bad is my favorite thing. Really? In my mind, I wanted, I was like, I just want him to play drums and play something and maybe everything. Do you want to do this song? I'm so stoked you wanted to do this song because this is a good this is a good drummer song. I am a runner. You are the chaser. My twin in flames. Do we meet again? I am the lost. You can't be found. My twin in flames. Let me run the ground. You are the hider. I am the sucker. My twin in flames. I'm running by. I have a name. You call me by my twin. I'm on fire. Come put me out. I'm on fire. This guy is my weakness. I try to be strong. But my twin I'm on fire. Don't strain me. I'll wake you from slumber. You fall so high. My twin in flames. We want to fly. My pockets are empty. Your heart is stripped. My twin in flames. When I even live. Can't see past the border. I smoke my twin in flames. Oh, I'm sorry. I won't. The sucker continues. His plane is getting weak. My love, let me go. I should let you be. You are the runner. I am the chaser. My twin in flames. Till we meet again. Yes! You just made my heart sing. Give me a balloon. Oh my God. I just died. I just died inside. My sixth grade self just died. That's the best way to end that song ever. That was great. Thanks for that. Now I need a cigarette. I know. When did you start singing? It's like church choir age 5. But I always sing, I think. I'm not a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I'm a singer. I always sing, I think. I think singing is just the net. When did you start writing? When I was 20. Really? I wrote a song in high school. I went to a performing arts high school. It was pretty great. We had this synthesis group. Synth ensemble. I know. Nerd alert. It was incredible. It was incredible. I was like, I'm going to write my idols. It was awesome. The teacher, Ken Ellingson, had us write a song. We all played. Somebody would take the Mug bass. All these guys played drums too. They grew up in the church playing everything. I was so scared. I had never written a song before. I wrote this. My teacher at the time had told me how to outline chords on the piano. It was like... It was very smooth. Right out of the gate. I don't know. It was not... I don't know. The teacher had us put all these synth strings on it. He was like, let's build it up. The production will be like Super Yanni. That just deflated everything for me. I was like, I came home crying. Yanni? I didn't think Yanni was cool then. Now I come into it. I'm going to be honest. It's incredible. At the time, that was not what I was going for. I came home crying. Mommy said I sounded like Yanni. I clammed up after that. I didn't write another song. I moved to New York. I was playing jazz gigs. I was singing all these songs that were 80 years old. I went to the songwriter club and got hooked up with all these songwriters. I picked up a guitar. I learned four chords. I wrote Come Away With Me. Amazing. It's kind of a country song. It was that simplified thing where it's just like, okay, now I'm inspired. That's kind of this. When I was a kid, I took a couple guitar lessons. Then... It was like Mary had a little lamb shit. Then my mother bought me the complete Beatles anthology that just had the chord charts. Right? And the Silver Tone guitar with the amp in the case. I had the Beatles record, so I would just sit around and look at the chords and play along with the record and look at the chords. That's basically how I learned to play guitar, but also the idea of composition and arrangement and harmony and... you know, melody and whatever. Then I was listening to Rush and things like that and starting to get interested in the drums, but I didn't have a drum set. So I had this weird captain's bed. It was this bed that had drawers under it or whatever. I would put on records. My mother would bring home... We didn't have a record player, so my mother would bring home the record players. You take the lid off and it has a tiny speaker. And I would listen to records on that and I would set up... I had this chair that I would use as a hi-hat and then I put a pillow between my legs as a snare and then my bed would be the toms and the cymbals and stuff. You had a pillow drum. Yeah, that's how I learned how to play. Holy crap. And then I would do that all day long. And it didn't bother anybody. No, because it was only quiet. I'm so lucky. But I didn't have a normal drum set. My room was so tiny too, but I didn't learn to play on a drum set. So, but I was listening to rock songs and trying to figure out guitar leads, but I wasn't really good and listening to Zeppelin and I wasn't any good. And then I saw a punk rock band the first time I ever saw a band on stage. It was a punk rock band in Chicago and they were called Naked Reagan and they had it was at this tiny little bar there were maybe 40 or 50 people there, but they had four dudes in the band. There was a bass player, guitar player, singer and drummer and they like, you know, they were an amazing band, but it was so simple and that's what inspired me the most. Where I was just like, oh shit, that song is three chords. It doesn't have to be, oh my god, you started playing trying to play Rush. I know, I was like, I'll never be a good drummer. I was like, I was like, I was like, oh my god, I could do that. I could totally do that. Totally. That makes sense. You start simple and just do it. That's the best. Yeah. And I think for kids too, it's important to to recognize the simplicity and the relatability and that it's attainable. You know, like it's one of the things when you see stuff on TV where you're seeing these singers with these amazing voices, these really soulful established voices and then this huge production and you kind of forget that it's really as simple as like your dad's old guitar that's in the garage that he hasn't touched in 20 years. And I prefer it sometimes. Yeah, pick it up and just start doing stuff and don't be, you know, don't be worried about sounding like that or something else. Just like just kind of suck, you know, and then keep sucking and then like get better and then have your friends come over. Like I do also think that it's important for when you're young to play with people that you can relate to, that your age, your little tribe, you find your weird friends and you start doing weird shit and before you know it, you know, you have a band. So it's like the thrillingest thing, the most thrilling thing. Yeah. Also, I think when kids or even adults, even me now, like taking a pottery class, you know, when you do something simple and you succeed at it, it makes you want to keep doing it. And when you do something hard and you suck at it, you don't want, you put it down. Like me, it's me at the wheel, basically. Yeah. I put that shit down and I make masks instead, you know. Yeah. Weird creepy masks. You make creepy masks? I do. Really? Yeah. Cool. Is it? Yeah. So the new album, you just announced it this week and I'm very, very excited and I loved the songs I've heard. Thank you. Because you sent me a couple. I did. And they're really, really great. They're beautiful and I love that one that your daughter Violet sings on. Oh, geez. Show me how. Yeah. Wow. She does have a super haunting voice, which is She has an amazing voice. It's just, it's great. And the cool thing, we've recorded some things together. She has amazing taste in music, by the way. Of course. Like she, I mean, she's she's just as much about Joni Mitchell as she is like the misfits or the garden or that's cool. Young punk rock shit or like crazy electronica or Billie Holiday and you know, she goes deepest stuff. So when she sings she she really sings with this beautiful with soul, you know, but one of her favorite punk rock bands is the band X, which she loves so much. And years ago we recorded an X song together, this song called Najia and and we did a duet and it was really cool because she when we sing together, we totally lock in together. Like we're so I mean, I taught her how to talk. You know, so it's weird with family. It's a real thing. Yeah. It was really amazing. But yeah, that that song in particular, I mean the new record is really heavy. It is. There's a lot of emotional stuff on it. And so my mother passed away last year. Wow. I know God, it was so hard. Sorry. But while I was with her towards the end I was I would just sit and play guitar for her every day all day long. And I came up, I came up with this melody and it was really pretty and I remember at one point I'd been working on it for a while and I said to her, I was like, hey, I've got this thing I've been working on. What do you think? And she kind of went, yeah. But that's why I turned it into the song show me how, which is basically about my mother and her passing and Violet and I thought it would be very cool because in the song you know, I'm basically saying like, don't worry I'll take care of everything and towards the end of the song you have my daughter singing the same thing so it's kind of this cycle of life trip. I know it's so heavy. Ugh, it's terrible. No, it's beautiful though. It's really beautiful. It is the most beautiful song on the entire record. It's so beautiful in the way she sings the melody. Yeah. Yeah, it's really special and I mean, yeah, it's heavy, but that's life. That's the shit that everybody you know, deals with and it's so you know, it's so raw and yeah, and I think people feel the same, you know. I know, I wish I remembered it. Oh, I know one thing that's kind of cool that I was thinking could be sort of Nido I was talking about like how I played the guitar like the drums. So at some point I started getting really into this sort of like finger picky pull off sort of thing and and just messing around with with patterns of just like things that I guess sound kind of like I don't know blue grassy or country. I don't even know what it's called, but like there was once where there was once years ago where someone from my record company called and they said they said, have you heard about this mind collapse in Australia, a place called Beaconsfield they're like there's there's this mind collapse and there were two minors, I think there were three and maybe one didn't make it, but there were two minors that were stuck in this mind shaft for days and so the rescuer has drilled down I guess next to the mind shaft and contacted them. Two of them were still alive and they asked them if they needed anything before they could like get them out of there and they said they wanted water and I pod with Foo Fighters music on it and so the people from our record companies are you aware of what's going on and said no and so they told me and so I sent them a message like hey fellas I hope you're doing okay we're all thinking about you and when you come out like beer's on me like let's go let's do this. So so the next time we went down to Australia we were actually doing a show at the Sydney Opera House we were doing this acoustic thing and I heard that Brant Webb was his name one of the minors he was going to come to the show and so the night before I thought I would write him a song and perform this song just for him at the Sydney Opera House thing and I sat in bed and I kind of did that thing where it was like sort of like a drum riff thing I called it the ballad of the Beacon sealed minors because of this so so so you're going fast so oh my god that was awesome it was pretty cool and then afterwards we had beers that was an incredible bar at the hotel and he was like we were about to make the same record that Virginia Moon is on that one and he said he was going to put it on the record right and I'm like yeah totally totally forgot about it never thought of it until the last day of recording the record I'm like oh fuck I promise that minor dude hahahaha so was it on the record yeah yeah it's called the ballad of the Beacon sealed minors I love it and you said razor was hard that looks much harder razor is a weird one razor is hard though but that looks harder to me as a layman it's sort of the same idea I wrote it to I wrote it for a gig really there's a benefit gig here in Los Angeles and it was acoustic and I had to go up I'm like oh god I'm gonna do the same shit over and over again I thought maybe I'll just write something cool that's always fun when it happens it's a great song cause it's kinda it's kinda indiany yeah you mentioned that it really is and I don't know if it was in my head because you sent me that story about going to the George fest and seeing my dad and my sister and stuff but something about it just it's very droney and it's got like the sharp four what is that Nora you do it a lot as a kid listening to a lot of Beatles and a lot of Zeppelin both of them really sort of did blend eastern influence into a lot of their music whether it's you know Zeppelin and Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones you know John Paul Jones is really like such an unsung hero I got to play in that band them crooked vultures with them and I never for one second eased into the idea that John Paul Jones is a normal human being I never, not once whenever we jammed whenever we hung out is just such a phenomenal musician and such a huge part of Led Zeppelin I really think that he's instrumental in making John Bonham sound even bigger which is kind of this it's hard to imagine but the way that John Paul Jones glues to and enhances the groove of whoever he's playing with oh my god also did you ever hear that Diamanda Gallas record do you know about her? I think I got Wicked Crazy Amazing sort of goth legend who made a record called the Sporting Life with John Paul Jones playing bass Pete Thomas from the Attractions playing drums and her singing I have to play it for you you'll lose your mind it's one of the coolest things in the world but it also has sort of that sort of influence god this is going to be hard we don't have to do it I tried it this morning it's just a good song okay let's see if we can figure it out can I sing some harmonies on it? go do whatever you want to do it's seriously been so long I can't even this is going to be so good I haven't done this in a really long time I'm sweating I'm sweating I've been sweating all day what are you talking about alright ready music playing wake up it's time music playing music playing music playing music playing music playing music playing music playing music playing music playing whoa laughing isn't it pretty? wow I haven't done that in 20 years really? yeah we did it a bunch it was for that record actually we went on tour where we played a bunch of rock shows and then we did this acoustic tour thing yeah because wasn't it a double was it a double album? it was a double album I remember we made a double album someone from the record company came to listen to it the first thing they said was I think maybe before even hearing it they're like so why'd you make a double record? don't you love that? I don't know no that was really that was really fun to be able to do that I honestly think that the acoustic side of that album was better than the rock side well it seems like you wanted maybe you wanted to make an acoustic album but you didn't feel like you couldn't rock was that? maybe that's what it was that's the hindsight thing we don't know what we're doing ever I know I remember on the rock record one of the best of yous on that record and we recorded it and we're like that sucks, fuck that and we played it for John Silva our manager and then a long time later he was like we played him a bunch of other stuff and he's like what about that song that says best of you a hundred times I was like oh yeah what happened to that? I guess it's kind of cool I don't know how your perceptions of things don't you do the same thing? I mean I don't have hits in the same way that you do yeah but you know when a song is a good song I think I do but then sometimes I'll do stuff that I don't think is good I feel like I get fed by if other people end up it's one of their favorites I get fed by that and my brain thinks it's good then yeah is that a needy part of me maybe? well I think maybe as a performer you want people to appreciate what you do yeah it's maybe not first priority if you're a musician or but if you're performing it's nice to play songs that people enjoy hearing he definitely is because then they have fun and they come back rather than just go I get it there have been times where we'll record things that are very inward or self-indulgent and things that might please us greatly but won't necessarily translate to when we go out I really love going out and playing songs that if it's a song they don't know it has to be fucking amazing yeah I've learned that over the years it can't just be like so weak yeah it's more fun oh you know what we were talking about the new record thing yeah let's do a song from the new record I mean rescued is so screamy you don't want to be fucking screaming rescue that you you can you can come over next door and hear us rehearse it in a couple of minutes you can do whatever you want but I love rescued and I could hear you doing it you know kind of the way you do oh like times like these you know I've heard you do it in so many different incarnations and then I went back to the record version and I was like oh yeah it's like crazy crazy different each time well you know what's crazy it's this guitar that I've basically written all of our music for the last 30 years on this acoustic what is it I don't know it's an old Gibson it's a Gibson country western model nothing about gear drums or guitar but yeah pretty much everything from the first record to the learned flies and the Everlongs and all of that stuff was this thing and that's what happens is I'll write a song and I'll come up with a melody before the lyrics or anything and and I'll sit on the couch and I'll be like I'll be like yeah and I'll sing it sort of falsetto and I'll get in the studio and I'll be like and it just doesn't sound the same at all and and then I realize like oh shit I have to scream that yeah like I don't sit around the house otherwise it sounds too like yeah and then the first the first time I sing any of our songs is always in front of the mic to record you don't play it for them before I'll play them sort of demos and even in the demos I'm like you save it for the moment I save it for the moment and then in that moment I'm like oh fuck god damn I have to scream on this one so I'm like yeah this and then to fucking sing that scream that every night that's a lot you're up for it you're the man for the job I remember the reason why we first started doing acoustic versions of our songs was because we went on the Howard Stern show oh boy and it was like 7 in the morning and he's like hey bring a guitar they might want you to play a song and I don't know if we'd ever done an acoustic song or an acoustic version of a song and the night before I was in the hotel room I'm just like oh my god what are we gonna like what can we play at the time I think we were only on our second record but that song had that record had like my hero and Everlong and stuff like that and I thought wow Everlong is probably the easiest to sing at 7 in the morning with an acoustic guitar and we did it and it kind of opened up this whole new dynamic and this whole new world for us to try some of our songs on acoustic guitars it felt exciting what's that? it felt fun and like exciting yeah it was just nice to be we actually we did it on the radio on his radio show and then they kept playing it and Silva was like oh my god we need to record a version of it and then that wound up on the radio and since then at least once or twice a year people will come up to me and be like that was our song in our wedding the acoustic version yeah but that's also I feel like when you strip a song back from whatever it becomes production wise or full band wise and it still works I mean it's just a great song so it's it's if it didn't sound good acoustic you'd be exposed but because they're great songs they work you know I know so lucky you we're gonna do Everlong right now I don't know that one as well Nora we're gonna do it what's this chord? you know what let's go to music school let's go to music school it's a D major 7 with a major 7 okay then this is a B minor with a minor 7 and a 9 then back up to the yeah it goes okay I get it I mean I know the song too just so you know just ask me what the chords are I need you to know that I do know the song tell me this chord one more time what's this D major 7 B minor 7 with a 9 B minor 7 9 G2 omit the 3 shut the fuck up right now I'm sorry but this is I am serious okay ready let's try it hello hello I've waited here for you Everlong to bring your face out of the red out of the head she sang do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do come down and waste away with me down with me slow out you wanted it to be because of my out of my head yeah cause the bridge and I wonder when I sing along with you if everything could ever feel this real forever if anything could ever be this good again the only thing I'll ever ask of you got a promise I'm torturing you do breathe out so I can breathe you in hold you in and now I know you've always been out of your head out of my head I sang and I when I sing along with you if everything could ever feel this real forever anything could ever be this good again the only thing I'll ever ask of you got a promise not to stop when I sing when she sang this is all you heard now and I wonder when I sing along with you if everything could ever feel this real forever if anything could ever feel this real forever if anything could ever feel this real forever if anything could ever be this good again the only thing I'll ever ask of you got a promise not to stop when I sing when she sang when I sing fuck yes I feel like I'm not wearing any pants that's a lot to ask you to play a song that you've never played before and you just did it I loved it me too I was slightly unprepared but I enjoyed every second great that's a great one it also does that droney thing you do that I love it the Indian in me loves it what is that I don't know but I like it I write songs like that too sometimes there's something about the pedal and the drone it not changing keys almost never going to the five I know it went to the five chord a couple times in that bridgey bit there's something circular about it that gets sort of like haunting I feel like songs like that you know a lot of the droney it comes from two different people Zeppelin there's this one song called in the light of a physical graffiti there's this one like that hangs out over the whole riff and it just lends to this beautiful sort of spacey trippy drone thing but then there's this punk rock called who's Purdue who I loved so much when I was young and the guitar player singer Bob Mould the way that he played guitar he always had these like these notes that would ring out over the riff or chord structure that just sort of sustained notes I don't even know what I'm talking about how would you call them but it's always cool just to have that weird sort of droney thing but then also that whatever that is major 7 is it? so I'm still on the D yeah you're playing it you're doing it and it's got the dissonance yeah yeah yeah I love that I feel like I just went to fucking music school this is the learner episode I feel like when I came in to sing Virginia Moon you guys thought I was a nerd that day too I don't know if you remember coming in and me showing you the song and you were like oh I kind of was hoping we were going to do a rock song do you remember that? you did say that you had already sent me the song though right? didn't I already know? no I feel like you fucking figured it out oh yeah because when I got the call to do it I was so excited and confused why you would call me also because you're fucking rock band you know and so I get there and it's a bossa nova and it's beautiful and I was like I thought I was going to get to rock well whenever you want to make a rock record I do actually wait didn't you have another you had a band didn't you were in like a rock band thing weren't you? yeah I had this band called El Madmo and it was kind of a rock band was it back then? it was around then and I started playing guitar that's how I was learning how to play guitar on that that was pretty fun but I came in to do Virginia Moon did I deflate the moment by saying that? no you just scared me as if I weren't nervous enough then I'm like oh great I'm disappointed in her I was so young and confused by everything at that time I was like who am I god damn that was like 20 years ago that was 20 years ago and I had just become successful and I was just like what the fuck is happening and you had me come in and do this song and I loved it it was beautiful I just was so confused because you're so full of fucking shit right now no it was amazing and then I loved that song forever and we've never sang it together after that no and we never will because now I know how much you didn't want to do it no I did want to do it I just didn't know what I was doing stop it are we in a fight? we just did why did you call me because you thought it would be nice? well you know one of the things that we were doing on that record is we were asking people to come and we were having a guest with us John Paul Jones is on that record that's right he was John Paul Jones you Kaki King do you remember Kaki King? yeah she played on the song Razor with me either Razor or Beaconsfield Miners it's actually how we got Rami our keyboard player to join the band he came and played all over it okay god I don't remember who else but yeah we were having a bunch of people come and I came up with that melody and having heard your voice I'm like oh my god this will be beautiful this will be perfect I totally agree it makes sense yeah like I get I got why you called me after I heard the song whatever dude I thought I was going to get to like Air Drum with you no I knew it I know you can Air Drum but can you play drums? I can play backbeat but I'm not great I mean I play in this band put some boots I play some drums on a few songs I fill too much I get too excited like I try to do fills because I'm so excited to be behind the drums and then I lose everything the best drum lesson I ever I only took two drum lessons one from this crazy jazz drummer in DC my mom his name is Lenny Robinson he might be in New York now but my mom used to take me to this jazz club on Sundays outside of Georgetown in DC it's called One Step Down fun and on Sundays they'd had this jazz workshop where the house band it was a student named Lawrence Wheatley and then Lenny played drums and I don't know Maurice played sax I think I can't remember anyway but seeing him play the drums and seeing a jazz drummer it was just like I was so used to punk rock drummers I was like I need to learn how to do that and I think I was like 15 or 16 I went up to him and he was like excuse me Mr. Robinson do you give lessons he was like yeah sure it was like 30 bucks an hour for him to come in and tell me like you're holding your sticks backwards I was like what? I was just on a pad going like bap bap bap bap for $30 I had a mo like six lawns and I wanted to get the money but then and then I just kind of learned on the pillows but then the best lesson I ever got was I joined this local punk rock band in DC called Scream and they were all older than me I was 18 and they like toured and stuff they toured Europe and toward America and that was my dream to like get in the van with a bunch of dudes and play punk rock shows and so but I was such an incredibly busy hyperactive over the top drummer the same where I was just throwing stuff in everywhere too much and there was once where I went over to the bass player's house or he said like once I joined the band he's like let's jam and he's like we're gonna smoke a huge joint and we're gonna sit down and play and we're gonna play the same riff for half an hour and you're not gonna do a drum roll and I was like okay and so we smoked a huge spliff and I sat down and as it was Skeeter and he was really like a groovy laid back bass player and so I don't even remember what we played it was like and probably like something like the song that I just played with you and like 30 seconds go by and I'm like and he would look at me and he broke me like a horse yeah oh my god and where it worked was the best lesson I ever had in my entire life that is interesting and I just wish I had a video of it yeah it was in a bedroom okay there's a drum set in there it's gross oh my god that's true it's the best lesson yeah maybe I'll do that well should we try Virginia Moon oh too much uh yeah let's try it okay I mean if we can't get it it's fine my god these lyrics I'm trying to be all fucking romantic they are romantic honestly this is really sweet these lyrics are um I don't even feel like the romantic I almost feel like it's a like a prayer like a morning you know what I mean constant damn Sam it's hard it's so hard I wonder we haven't done it in 20 years did you ever play this live would you do that tour? never I would never do this without you oh violet would sound pretty on this actually alright alright ready we've got this we totally have it we have it it's in us it's happening ready one two three four Virginia Moon I'll wait for you tonight sweetest invitation breaking the day in two feeling like I do Virginia Moon I'll wait for you tonight and now our shades become shadows in your life in the morning when we're through and tomorrow we'll refuse you I will say good night secret fascination whisper quiet tune heal me calling you Virginia Moon I'll wait for you tonight and now our shades become shadows in your life in the morning when we're through and tomorrow we'll refuse you I will say good night Virginia Moon I'll wait for you tonight and now our shades become shadows in your life in the morning when we're through and tomorrow we'll refuse you I will say good night tomorrow I'll refuse you I will say good night I will say good night I will say good night music we did it oh my gosh it was pretty I know I know I know we did it we did it we did it remember that feeling you were talking about when you do something you don't know if you can do and then you do it and then the reward is like yeah it's great thank you thanks for doing this with me we did several of the 20 songs we talked about doing I know no I just want to say something you I love you so much and this was so fun for me thanks for doing music with me you're welcome do you want to hear what I said to Billie Eilish I said I'm just I'm so happy that I'm so happy that you're the people love you because I love you it was hysterical that's a nice thing to say it was super awkward though and I don't think it came out I'm trying to say in the right words but it was funny and I feel the same about you Dave that's what I'm trying to say that's weird damn Sam that was fun hey will you do a rock song with me one day yeah fuck yeah oh that was so fun thanks for listening everyone that was great I'm so impressed by his unjadedness in conversation but also musically it's like he's achieved so much in his career and yet it's like he's nervous every time and still he can get as excited as ever afterwards like wow we did it I love that he's definitely got a child wonder with music in a way that I hope he never loses I hope I never lose I don't always have it but it's the best when you do yeah please never change I hope you enjoyed the episode if you want to know what songs we played the first song was statues from Echo's Silence, Patience and Grace the 2007 Foo Fighters album the second song we played was Flame Twin which was one of mine from Pick Me Up Off the Floor in 2020 the acoustic guitar number was ballad of the Beaconsfield Miners and it's on the album Echo's Silence, Patience and Grace also we did Razor from In Your Honor the 2005 Foo Fighters album Ever Long from The Color and the Shape 1997 album from the Foo Fighters and Virginia Moon from In Your Honor in 2005 thanks again to Date Girl for joining us and letting us rerun him we'll be back next week with Lady Ray today's episode was recorded at Studio 607 in Los Angeles, California recorded by Oliver Roman assisted by Jared Pulacci, studio manager Ali Christie, mixed by Jamie Landry edited by Sarah Oda audio post-production and mastering by Greg Tobler, additional engineering by Pete Rem artwork by Eliza Frye, photography by Shervin Lenez, coordinating producer Rachel Ward, executive producers Aaron Wong-Coffman and Jordan Runtog and marketing lead Allison Cantor Graver produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda ahhhhhhh yay this is an I Heart podcast guaranteed human