Can Democrats Unite To Beat Republicans in November?

hey everybody welcome back to the find out podcast everyone's laughing because that people were making jokes right up until we hit record uh but we figured uh so first of all thank you for all the comments on the video on the uh episode that we dropped on tuesday with uh economic professor uh justin wolfers like the the responses were just amazing and incredible he was awesome thank you and he was he was so he was so good and i've never seen an economist actually be able to laugh at a joke or make one of his own so it was uh ball sacks and stuff yeah he did do that and And he laughed at my Dick Cheney transition joke, which I thought was pretty good. But anyways, we have someone equally as funny and equally as smart with us today. If you're listening, he is scrunching his face, but he is. We have Nathan June with us today, who is a, I don't even know how to describe, well, how would you describe yourself? Content creator, marketing expert, like, you know, tax the rich guy. Like, what's, how do you, how would I describe myself? Um, you know, I would say political and economic analyst, but by profession, I'm a data analyst focused in consumer insights. Um, I am not an economist, despite the fact that I have several economist friends who say that I could easily replace half of their staff. Um, but I, I basically, you know, I position myself as somebody who enjoys researching, enjoys looking into things with great detail enjoys fact-checking things and enjoys clarifying I think clarifying because fundamentally I believe that a more educated voter is a better voter so you're trying to make everybody MAGA then right I actually found I did a poll I actually sent out a poll a couple days ago where I asked what people's my followers, what their intended presidential candidate was if the primary was tomorrow on the on the Democratic side. And it was interesting because I actually just for shits and giggles, funny, ha ha. I included I am a never Trumper conservative. And I just included that as like one of the demographic builds. Yeah, I have like 48 people who selected that. And I was like, I have Republican followers. Wow. I was like, wow, that's cool. yeah i mean i mean they like to you know they like so you are an influencer i it's the worst term will not ever identify as that which is funny because if you're like you go you look at like ted talks you know they are trying to influence you i i always joke that like you know walter cronkite and like edward r murrow you could have called them influencers just like we can all call ourselves journalists because like breaking news, there's no certification or like you don't have to do anything to call yourself a journalist, as Barry Weiss has pointed out. So if we want to just call ourselves journalists, like I used to think, you know, coming from journalism, I used to think that you, you know, you had to have a degree and you had to do hard news or have like 10 years of experience doing hard news where you're interviewing expert sources and you're publishing, like you're, you're breaking net new stories to the world. And that was the only way to be a real journalist and now i have like fully deconstructed my entire idea of what it is that we all do um maybe just because i don't want to feel like an imposter but i think you know what's interesting though and analysts like they've always been called journalists so why aren't we nobody has ever like i've never been called out because i don't position myself as a journalist the funniest thing though is that i wrote for i actually was a senior staff writer for the central Florida Future, which was a regional newspaper in East Orlando, I actually was part of the staff that won a college pacemaker award, which was like the college Pulitzers. So I always sit there and I'm like, I'm not a journalist, but I think out of a lot of creators, I actually do have a background in journalism where I was writing feature articles. Like I literally wrote an article uncovering the fact that professors were angry at the university of central florida which by the way is the largest college or public college in the country at 68 000 i think undergrads right now um like i wrote a story basically about how how professors were upset about possibly moving to grading on a curve policies. And yeah, it's like, so yeah, again, I don't self identify as a journalist, but I always sit there and I'm like, I think one of the reasons why I actually might be good at this is just because I do actually have a journalistic background where I try to pursue facts. And I always if you notice in my videos, I always cite my sources where I include little pop ups that say, here's the headline. Here's the chart. Here is this. Yeah, the sourcing is really important right because there are some people out there that are that are just you know regurgitating news without putting sources and i'm not talking about anyone in particular i think a lot of people do it um you know which has its importance what's that which has its place yeah it does just amplifying things that need to be known amplifying true information is a role in the journalism space 100 i mean they used to have the the little wire i mean that was the whole point of like Reuters and AP was they were wire news services so that little towns could just get amplified shit that was created elsewhere. Like that was the whole fucking point. And then, you know, they, they became much bigger than that, but a hundred percent. But Tim, you were going to say something. Oh, I, it's just an interesting, uh, we weren't even planning on going down this road, but it's interesting because like for, from the find out media perspective, like I don't actually want people to think we're journalists because we have a very, you know, we are very partisan. At least I am like. part of the reason to do this is to bring people more to our side by part of it's just by existing right seeing that there are white that there are guys that are doing this this is the street white guys there's an asian guy on this one like you know we we have all you know wait you're asian yeah i don't know i don't see race yeah i don't know you're gonna do that stephen colbert but my point is like i but my point is it's an interesting distinction because like I don't want to be held to the journalistic standards of multi-source. But I also don't want to say things that aren't true either. I just want to take a story and then give my perspective on it. Frankly, I'm also lazy as shit. I don't want to do the work that a journalist. Journalism is hard if you do it right. If you do it shitty, it's not hard. And so that's the biggest difference with news journalists is you're not supposed to editorialize. even if you know something or if you really feel something based on, and it could be based on all the facts and science. If it's not the thing that your source is saying in that story, then you don't say it. You are only report, or if you do say something, you source it to that, to that, you know, to that specific source or you pull in that data. And that's what makes good investigative journalism. But I've always believed, and this was something that was, even 20 years ago when I was in journalism, journalism school was, was kind of coming around, was like pretending you don't have a bias is, is more, cruel to your reader than just owning your bias and just saying it. I've been a progressive my entire life. I've been an environmentalist my entire life. I love animals. I honestly like animals more than people most of the time. I like trees more than people most of the time. And so I think if people know that about me, then they also know how to read what I'm writing or consume what I'm putting out there. And they can choose if they want to read it or not. But when they do i find myself like reading through my comments and i have a real connection and i know we all do like we have a real connection with our with the people in our comment sections because we're creating authentic content on behalf of ourselves and then to the rest of it tim like being a journalist is really like the principles that you commit to are you trying to mislead people or are you trying to inform them and if you're trying to inform them you're fact checking yourself you're not putting out that's like half true or that's that's half of the story so that that you can guide them in a direction that's maybe disingenuous. Like if you just commit to not doing those things, frankly, I think all four of us should call ourselves journalists in some capacity. And every entertainer out there, Bill O'Reilly's out there and Sean Hannity call themselves journalists. We can absolutely call ourselves. Actually they call themselves entertainers for legal purposes. Legally because they didn't journalist very well for so long. I mean, I know we have topics rich, but this is so timely for me just because I yesterday went through hell on earth to get to harrisburg pennsylvania it was seven hours of train rides to go have an interview with governor shapiro and the a lot of people when i posted basically just a selfie with government with governor shapiro who by the way has a 62 approval rating in a purple state that voted for trump in 2024 he also is one of two governors that has a split legislative branch which is phenomenal that he has a 62% approval rating just in that in itself. Like Republicans actually like him there. There are MAGA voters in Pennsylvania that like Josh Shapiro, which I found to be a really fascinating conversation. And especially because he's been getting a lot of slack right now about data centers, about the ICE detention center, blah, blah, blah. And I posted this thing and a lot of people were upset with me. It's, you know, just for various reasons, most of them uninformed. And, and it's so funny because Rich, when you said like, we have to constantly remind people, I had to post something where I had said a reminder, you know, even though I self identify as a democratic socialist, I am not a red line progressive. It's like, so if you believe in red line politics, you will be thoroughly disappointed in following. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like, and also a reminder, if you think I'm going to turn down an opportunity to go interview somebody who is potentially a 2028 presidential candidate, then you are going to be thoroughly disappointed in following it. And I have to constantly remind people like I do not believe in purity politics at this stage of the game. I believe in building coalitions. I aggressively campaign for Zoran Mamdani in the most recent primary and in the general election. And yes, I might actually, if Gavin Newsom becomes the presidential nominee, aggressively campaign for him. And people might not like that. But at this point, you know, to me, we don't have a choice. So I have to constantly remind people that I believe in building small coalitions. I believe in backing candidates in local elections who are very closely aligned with you. I believe in being able to back a handful of new progressives, you know, the new Democrats and getting as many of the aocs and the talibs and all of those people getting cory bush re-elected back in in missouri one like all of those things i believe in but like we have to stop screaming at each other that's the biggest weakness of the left is it comes from a strength like the strength is that we're moral and empathetic right but when you have a group of moral empathetic people you also get a large fragment of them who go i can't do certain things because of my morals and they just want that line they won't cross and And that's like the most difficult thing to emotionally get people to really understand. But I think the majority of them tend to once the moment actually comes and it's like two days before you got a vote, they'll go and vote for Newsom. They will. Most of them. But then they'll post afterwards how angry they were that they had to do. Yes. Yes. There's a lot of regret. It's so interesting. And it scares me, to be honest, that like especially I think Threads is where a lot of this happens is that everybody has like or not everybody, But a lot of people are like picking their like horse and like they want to tear down everybody else in order to keep that person up. I mean, we see it with Newsom. We see it with Shapiro. We see it in Texas, too. The primary Texas right now. Texas is actually the worst mess right now. Yeah. So so for those who don't know, there are there are two very good candidates in the Texas primary Democratic. James Tallarico, who is a state senator and Jasmine Crockett, who is a member of Congress and has been five to four or five terms, something like that. and you know it's mostly people outside of texas to be perfectly honest yeah and i will say i i can't say it definitively but like i think some of them are being paid to do this i i don't know and and this is a problem in the influencer slash creator space too about disclosures but but anyways it's like all of these people who don't live in texas screaming about jasmine crockett taking apac money and then it's like well james talarico has said positive things about israel and it's like no fuck you fuck you both and then it's like they're tearing each other apart in a race that is going to need every single democrat plus indies and some republicans to get them over the finish line and all they're doing is ripping each other up not the candidates themselves but the camps are just killing each other and meanwhile the two of them went on a debate stage and had probably the most civil yes right debate in a primary that i have seen since like obama mccain where people actually respected each other on a stage and we're even we're i know people who are not young enough to remember this it's like we we use people from different political spectrums used to actually be respectful of each other believe it or not but like they go on stage and they're actually not even they're not even just respectful they're actually complimentary of each other yeah and meanwhile their most rabid camps are like going to battle about it and all it does is create this narrative where if your person that you are battling for loses you are less likely inclined to actually want to rally behind the candidate who actually wins yes it's i mean it's yeah it's really rough and you know i don't know i feel like there is a clear-cut advantage for one of them in this but i'll get eviscerated just for saying hello like i think don't shut your mouth exact exact do not go there i really like it's just it's so hard for me to look at it people in our comment section i know i have so tough both would be great whenever i'm asking i'm sticking to it i i mean it's it's texas it's fucking texas like we we just hired somebody to be a podcast producer here and she's a black female and she came to me and she's like i don't know how anybody is behind crockett in this like it has to be teller rica i'm like thank you holy shit look but it's in i i don't necessarily disagree i mean i think like they both have it's interesting because they both have different perspectives on how to build the biggest coalition that's actually probably the biggest difference between the two of them policy wise i don't think there's a lot of there isn't any like they're pretty but like i think jasmine thinks that um you know galvanizing voters who have or people who haven't voted for a very long time doing the sort of the Bernie. It's sort of a bit like the Bernie approach, right? Like I'm going to excite a bunch of people that are tuned out of the process. Yeah. And that will be enough. Plus the democratic coalition to move forward. Tallarico's is probably more closely to like what Zach you're saying is that we actually need independence and some Republicans in the coalition. Talk about the corruption, talk about ice invading our communities and murdering people. Conservatives don't like that. Or the fact that like Trump all of a sudden is like, you can't bring a gun to a protest, which I'm sorry. But in Texas, I mean, I would like that to be true. But in Texas, you can open carry and you can conceal carry. So like, so it's interesting. But then they're not. But I think my problem with the camps, though, is that they're not arguing on that. They're like, Crockett's a shill of APAC. And it's like, well, like. And the comments from Tallarico. Not really. And then Tallarico made some. Yeah What the hotel a real hotel a real thing about Colin all read I i watched that and and i basically said there is no other end goal for this except to try to take talarico down yes yeah there is no like and whenever i see those i'm just sitting there and i'm like i understand that you are aggressively wanting your chosen candidate to win but we have to stop cannibalizing each other yes yeah so my i watched donald trump get millions of people i thought like didn't exist or they lived in basements and they would never come out from under the earth um i watched him rally those people and some of them are in my comments trolling me calling me a beta cock soy boy and they voted for trump for the first time in their lives and they're like 60 there's one guy kept trolling me on tiktok for like a full year he was like 65 and he lives in florida and he's super racist he was like defending uh defending um uh matt gates god for a second i forgot matt i haven't heard that in a while i know right he he was defending matt gates because 16 and 17 year olds if they're going to dress like whores then like then they should be treated like it so this guy had never voted in because i was like tell me more about yourself so this guy um because i'm like you exist you're a thing um he isn't it so disappointing when you find out they're not bots the worst the worst part is when you look at somebody who comments and you're like oh you're a bot and then you look at them and oh fuck you're real yeah motivating a 60 year old to vote for the first time never voted in a presidential election before and he voted for the first time so i watched trump do this and and so when i and then like mom donnie like if people said mom donnie you know a democratic socialist like a muslim democratic socialist is gonna is gonna run for you know new york city mayor i'd have been like well it's new york city maybe um but against like a kuomo i would have been like yeah that sounds tough because in the old days you come in with the big name and you're and you're and like you get the votes and then the the little the the passionate people they may be making noise in the primary race and then they flame out um that has changed enough now where i'm kind of coming around to the idea of like maybe we need to just say shit that we believe is true even if the strategists and the pollsters tell us like this doesn't play well in pennsylvania and but you just fucking say it because you believe it has to be true and and you it's what makes you want to fight instead of what makes you want to go and like win a debate and crockett has that and so i'm not going to count that approach out because there are millions there are millions and millions of democrats in texas and and a lot of them don't vote more than how many big cities are in texas republicans it looks like a blue state if you look at houston dallas austin like there are huge huge urban areas that are big enough that in any other state, I mean, Chicago carries all of Illinois. There are other states where when they have urban areas like that, they're just solidly blue forever. So is it like maybe Crockett is the fire that Texans need to come out and vote? Maybe we do the old fashioned approach of Tallarico being like a white male Christian who can bring together a coalition and like sort of like tap down the temperature and all that. i'm i'm keeping a very open mind this time around and i don't live in texas so i don't have to i don't have to choose but i'm keeping a very open mind um and i'm glad that texans have a choice between two phenomenal candidates because they need to just go and pick it so so for me it is about let's not tear them down let's not tear down one or the other did we not not learn anything about gatekeeping with bernie versus hillary yeah and with fucking genocide versus kamala harris which was like this whole manufactured thing and where's jill stein by the way i'm still waiting for her to come back out um oh yeah where is she she in moscow we killed ourselves with gatekeeping in the past but tribalism is sort of like an innately human thing and so like we're going to drift back in that direction if we don't say every day no fucking purity testing no gatekeeping like everyone is welcome try to be better right and just like be somewhere on the progressive spectrum and try to be better and and like you're welcome in my party i think that's fair i mean my reason for supporting talarico is really weird i've had nobody's had it before and i think you'll probably all look at me like i'm a little crazy but to me he's got great hair he's no he's very much like the next obama in my head where like he the way he carries himself the way he approaches regular people and explains things the gravitas of how he approaches stuff it feels very akin to obama coming out of nowhere and coming out and just absolutely taking over the party like i literally if he wins this senate seat not just the primary but actually wins in texas he to me becomes a front runner for 28 like and and i think he is potentially the best i think that because obama had a very similar ascension he was a what a senator for two years i think before he because it is it's very akin yeah but in the same realm of like here's it because right now let's be honest we look at the field of democratic candidates not awesome like so 28 looks like nobody really stands out as like this could really galvanize everybody he feels like a guy who could win the south because a guy could win the swing states because he communicates better than anybody so to me i'm rooting for the 28th yeah can i can i say something that's a little depressing just as a gay man nathan talarico is pete buddhij if pete buddhij wasn't gay that's fair that's a good comparison it's a good he's a little and i love pete buddhij like i think that pete buddhij is a little drier i think like they're both dry but i think talarico does an exceptional job at like connecting emotionally with people whereas buddha just does a very good job of like explaining his perspective i don't feel like he connects with the person in front of him as well as talarico does because he's like that natural preacher well talarico's best advantage is in in the state of texas is that if you watch him when he does town halls or when he speaks to constituents he's able to quote the bible like the back of his hand of course it's it's really really hard to argue with somebody when they're basically using the foundational aspect of what you base your entire morality and politics on right no it's very true it these are all assets that like i think the average liberal would be like i don't love that this is what we're relying on but at the same time like he does i love both of them yeah they're great they're both great that's the great ticket actually talariko buddha judge i'd be all about that that'd be very cool even if it's flipped it's buddha judge and he's the vp like i just think the two like they're so good at communicating and they're what's missing from our side. Like there's so many people who are front riders who just aren't good at like connecting with people we haven't been able to connect to. And I think that they both are very capable. Well, here's an interesting question for the group is, is the best way to success through explaining or is the best way through by displaying strength and confidence? Because what I would argue with a lot of the Donald Trump stuff, the words that are coming out of his mouth are nonsense. Right. Right. This guy, he couldn't describe what the three branches of government do. He couldn't tell you what's in the big bullshit bill. But he stands up there and he never flinches and he sells it to his base. Is there a model? And that is where I would argue like Jasmine would be stronger. Yeah. Is being, she'd basically be like, well, fuck you. This is the way we're going to do it. And essentially like, I don't care what you think. We're doing it. And like, there is a thing I think where Americans really like strength. Yeah, they like to be they want to feel protected. Now, Trump's version of strength does not jive with my version of strength. But I do think people see him as the guy who says it like it is. And if he says he's going to do it, he's going to do it. So like, is it the explainer, which Tony gets to the Democrat, like is almost like in Hillary world or, you know, somebody that connected. right but she was but she was an explainer right like she had like her site had like a billion policy papers and everything i think what's sad tim is is reading between the lines it's not so much strength it's pandering to the fact that a larger majority of americans than otherwise lack basic civics knowledge and so it should should the democratic party pander to people who may not actually fundamentally understand how a bill gets passed that don't know what a continuing resolution versus an appropriation bill is right should should we be pandering to that i also think it's basically the question is should we be lying should we actually just blatantly be lying that's like the mega like i think that that's the message that works for like mega folks and like republicans in general i think like we're gonna do it that strong man shit works for them but i don't think we need to focus on flipping them it's the people in the middle who are sort of like i just want i just want to feel comfortable and i just want like to keep my fucking money like that's the group where i think like there is the opportunity to explain shit to them and they'll go oh all right sweet like they're less influenced by the strong man bullshit zach to answer your question you have to have the strong leadership traits you can also have the explainer traits barack obama was an explainer who also could get up there and say you deserve health care and i'm you know, this is not good enough. And like, you knew what he was trying to do. He was a good leader in that sense. We haven't always had that. You can't just be the explainer, you get like Dukakis, Mondale type elections, where it's like, yeah, no, they're good leaders, but or they're like, they're good policy writers, or they know what needs to be done. But you have to be able to meet people where they're at. And if they're sort of detached from politics, that's when you just do the action movie thing. And you say you need you deserve lower prices, you deserve a thriving family we're going to deliver on that fuck everything else and they're like fuck yeah and they you know and then they like go to the bar or whatever like they go do something else yeah um for the explainers the the nerds especially a lot of journalists you know who want that detail and they're the ones that are like well how are you gonna pay for it you know you need to have the the place for that content for that approach but honestly like trump has proven he's proven me way more wrong in that I used to think that that was like, if you knew your shit inside and out, and you knew what you wanted to do, and you knew how you were going to do it, and you explained it to people, then they would rise to that occasion, they would understand it, and they would vote for you because you were a careful, cautious, you know, pragmatic person. I think maybe that used to be true. But like JFK into Reagan, we sort of transitioned to charismatic visual leaders, action movie stars and and the the ratio of like how smart are you and how well can you do things has versus your just like bravado um has gone like it's basically 99 to 1 now um in favor of just those strong leadership traits like the visual leadership traits like we see in movies well it's actually probably because of the invention of mass media right because the The first televised debate in U.S. history was in 1960 between John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon. And Richard Nixon was by far more experienced. He had a, I think probably, he was a garbage person, don't get me wrong, but like, I mean, he was vice president. He wanted universal health care. He wanted, yeah, he created the EPA and everything. But he partially lost the debate because he has a thick beard, like some of us, and he He had a five o'clock shadow and the way the lights were set, it made him look sort of nefarious. And they said that had a big impact. So we've had communicators since then. But when I go back to that strength thing, there was an interesting study that Cato Institute put out yesterday about immigration, both legal and illegal. And they looked at it over 30 years and they saw that both legal and illegal immigration helps reduce the deficit. And they have these charts and they show how much the deficit was and how much immigration has helped to shrink it. So like if they – what's that? I just screamed in the background. They pay taxes. They do. Right. They pay taxes and then they don't get the benefits. They don't get any benefits. The most expensive services. They get no Medicaid. They get no Social Security. They don't get anything, but they pay taxes through iTunes. But I did a video on this last night at 830, so it was the right time to do it. and it got like nothing on either side it just died and then today this morning i did a video about the guy who went and attacked the girl uh at the high school who was protesting ice i don't know if you've seen this this was in texas as well this mega guy comes out and literally starts attacking this girl and then all the kids jump on him and beat the shit out of him that video's killing it yeah and it's like this is where i come in like the this is such an emotional decision for so many people that i do worry like if i'm like oh mega look at this like graph they're gonna go fuck off liar right it's why i use visual aids tim a lot because it's why like that video i made about the ai bubble bursting with all the cups of water in case you didn't see it like if i just explain that without the water nobody will pay attention to it right yeah it's it's we are in a visual media it's like i have kind of you know i'm a big history youtube nerd where like i spend copious amounts of hours watching youtube videos just about you know specifically when when the when the genocide was happening in the early stages i was looking at the fall of the ottoman empire like just for background and context but like one of the big things that i you know have have studied about american history is that like based off of media and visual identity like there's no way in hell that america elects fdr as president if they know that he's in a wheelchair nope yeah it's like it just doesn't happen in in that time period because of this show of strength there's like the reason why it's going to be so hard for a woman to be president and i firmly believe it will happen one day for us is is because there's just this fundamental rooted belief that women are not strong enough to be president it's why you know maga have constantly used stretching back to and people don't remember this but like trump and this administration and MAGA has very, very acutely been able to realize that they can suppress women in so many different ways, stretching all the way back to 2016, when he told Megyn Kelly, who I nobody likes, but like, except for a certain number of people, but he told Megyn Kelly, after she moderated the debate that she might have been on her period while she was giving it, which is why she was so angry. So you have basically even people who would normally be your allies, you have this overall suppression of woman it's like so that's why i think it will be so hard you know for us to be able to move past this and that's why this show of strength mentality is really important on this note like i don't necessarily love the gavin newsom memes all the time because i don't know if it's showing strength but i think it is an effective way right now to trying to fight fire with fire i guess because if the president of the united states can go on truth social and post a like 1800 character like like post on can somebody put limitations on truth social my god i know it's like in all caps like crazy and and it's just full of like i think one of them i read last week i sat there and i'm like there are 18 lies in this that that do not actually exist i actually counted them out it's like so we're in this day and age where where you position yourself as a strong candidate who is like making authoritative decisions and people love his strength because like case in point yesterday he and marco rubio passed they bypassed congress and they are sending another weapons package to israel without congressional approval and without um you know any sort of like we're going to go through the normal process of this. I'm not using that as like, I'm using that as an isolated example, but like we can see all the executive orders he passes. So like, they love this. He has managed to convince his base to be excited about the fact that we no longer actually have three branches of government that are actually trying to keep it together. And that is, how do you fight that if you are a progressive candidate? How do you fight a scenario in this country where millions and millions of voters are excited about shitting on the Constitution every day it crazy i mean you imagine going back 10 years and going the republicans are going to turn to the party that's actually anti-constitution when they were like all constitutionalists it's fucking crazy but that's what they are now i mean like i see these jubilee debates and every single fucking maga shield that goes up there all they're doing jubilee i cannot say constitution sucks jubilee's trash but i get those clips all the time on my feed and they're all just ripping what's wrong with christian nationalism is a christian xenophobia i love yeah i saw this jubilee video where a guy was like was like he sits down he's like tell me what's wrong with believing that that i as a white person am better than you i'm sitting there and i'm like i don't want to why why it's like watching like a murder happen and you're like i can't look away yes it's true i mean it's that's the thing i hate to like that has become the standard of what we get on our fucking feet is just like a bunch of fringe people fighting each other and like we forget that the overwhelming majority of people don't want this they just don't want it and i feel like it's just the loudest people yes but like that's that's what to me like that's where i get thrown off of this strong man is going to win argument to a certain degree because i think there's a lot of people in the middle desperate for something that is not happening right now. And I think if you can tap into that in some way, shape, or form where it's like, hey, I'm just going to be like a civil person and understand where you're coming from and here's some ideas. I think that actually has a lot more strength than people think, but they get blinded because all they see in media is just fury and people wanting to get that inflamed because that's what gets attention. But here's the trick of that, right? Because I think you are right about the moderates, but if you do that, then the left that is like out for blood is not going to be excited. Yeah. You got to balance it. And then you've got to balance. So you've, it's a, it's a, we have a much harder job because we tell the truth. Right. And I think when Trump can go out and be like, gas is a dollar 99. And you know, we had to grab the greatest economy ever. And the, the surplus or the, the, the tariffs are like reducing the deficit and like everything is awesome. And then we're like, well, actually, and then everybody goes, right. We push our glasses and it's hard. So that's why I, 11% reduction. Right. Here's my chart, which is what I did in the video last night. Look at my chart. It shows I'm right. I want to know who at the White House has to make those charts. Yeah. Like, I really want to know, like, who, like, when you sit there, are you, are you actually asking in your head? This is so fun. I get to do an art project today where I just completely make shit up. Manipulate the sheer purpose of trying to manipulate like 78 million Americans. Well, there was one. I don't know if you saw this and I'm going to probably screw it up, but there was one that there's like a slight growth in something but they they stretch the x and y axis so like the numbers looks like from like 80 to 81 percent was like 80.1 80.2 so like it makes it look like there's this like huge increase but it's nothing essentially it's flat but they've just stretched it so like i want to hear that conversation it's like zoom in that's so my favorite is my favorite is when he holds up a chart during a white house press briefing and you can't see it right but like all the answers are here look at this and he just holds it up and then he puts it away really quickly and you'll have reporters who are being like what was that and he'll just be like you should smile more right i can't even while talking about epstein victims um a couple of like i don't know it's like a month ago i think it was when the last jobs report came out um trump went on like a posting binge you know 20 photos in a row or 20 images in a row and i started looking at them And they were from like the economic presidential economic advisory committee, some dumbass name. But it's a bunch of like just White House employees who put together reports for Trump. These things weren't published anywhere. And so it's like I was because I was trying to find the images. And then I realized the images were kind of wobbly. And I could tell that he was taking pictures of like a pull down projector screen from within the White House or like some within some room. And so then I realized, like, these weren't published to that same agency or that same group of economists. They were not publishing them on their own Twitter feed. These were slides created just to show Donald Trump how good he is. And he was watching them on a projector screen in some room in the White House and taking pictures of them with a phone or probably telling an assistant, take a picture of that screen and post it on my true social because this is fact. and everything was written i looked at the language in these slides everything was written at like a sixth grade reading level it was like very good and very bad and and super strong and moron and it was like oh my god like this is it's not 3d chess you guys not for it's a toddler with nuclear weapons i i do want to say this though just because um you know for for your listeners because you guys have a great audience if you on the topic of the economy um on the topic of the economy we love you all it's like uh a lot of people are a lot of people i think who are maybe just below surface level like like people who are really engaged in politics like you're like one level down if you want to go a little bit deeper on the economy i encourage everybody to read the mar-a-lago accords by steven moran who is the head of trump's economic advisory board it's very boring But it actually details out a lot of things. It details out tariffs. It details out why they are intentionally crashing the U.S. dollar right now to be able to make our exports cheaper. It details out in if you read between the lines, it details out that the easiest solution to actually reducing our reliance on government subsidy programs is to actually reduce the number of Americans that we actually have to provide them to. you can take that with it with whatever level of like disparity that you want to whether or not it's saying let people die if we kick them off health care or whether it is saying get rid of millions and millions of undocumented immigrants take it from there but like really really read that thing just because it's all in there like like everything that's happening the tariff policy like all of these things where you know there is no intent for us to actually become a domestic manufacturing powerhouse again, like we were in the in the early 1900s. There is zero intent. The intent is to be able to compete directly with China to be able to be a tech hub and invest heavily in AI and data centers. It's like so like really, really read it if you want to. You're never going to be able to have that conversation with somebody who has red pilled so far that they don't really understand that we pay for the tariffs. But like you will actually walk away from like with your eyes a little bit more open and you will kind of stare at it and just say like oh shit at least i understand why he's doing this and not him why he's not doing it yeah he's like stupid like we can go through all the corruption aspects of of what my trump derangement syndrome is my trump derangement syndrome is basically like cool so kevin warsh who is the new like you know nominee for like you know chairman of the federal reserve is married to the billionaire daughter of the heir to the sd lauder foundation who happened to also be on on take trips to jeffrey epstein's island like that's just par for the course like cool what else is new you know i mean it's the same thing where it's like cool like our ambassador to the uk which is probably our most important relationship you know i mean with with the eu is a billionaire donor who basically helped him build his ballroom like normal it's like but like put it on my time remove the reason i'm saying this is you have to remove yourself from the daily like distraction of like horrible, awful stupidity and lunacy. And if you actually look and read between the lines, that is actually what almost sometimes does not make me be in a constant state of manic panic, just because you sit there and you're like, I get what's happening. I understand what they're trying to do. I understand like the intent it's not good right at least there's something it grounds you yes it's not like oh my god this is the most unhinged shit i've ever seen in my life why is this happening it actually gives you a little bit of sense of like all right at least there's a plan the plan is fucking terrible and but i mean like that's the thing i think for a lot of us like we all know too it's not trump himself making the fucking no he's the idiots around him like steven miller and shit you know being the architects of this stuff but like that's the dangerous part is like the people that are actually building this are highly motivated to execute this plan like trump himself is sort of the interesting puppet they dangle in front of everybody and make it you get he's the host right exactly i call him basically it's like i don't call him the puppet i call him he is the host of the reality show yes you're right he's like like because i think he fully i think he actually does understand what his purpose is he does his purpose is yeah to distract it's like and to do all these things that get all of us up in arms and then he'll just silently kill something he'll just silently like close the kennedy center you know i mean he'll just silently like shutter the department of education underneath everybody's eyes like there are massive things happening that don't make big news because it is not really really fucked up things like american citizens executing their constitutional rights getting shot in the streets right but there are massive things happening behind the scenes and that's why he runs away from those things because like people were like well he's going to invoke the insurrection act and cancel elections after minneapolis he doesn't want a headline grabbing visual bloodbath in the united states because that makes him look like a failed loser it distracts like it it sucks all of the oxygen out of the room that he the second all that stuff was happening he was like posting about iran and Venezuela. He just in posting about tariffs in the Supreme Court, like, pay no attention to the to the really, truly motivating domestic trauma, because that actually gets people to go and change their behavior. And so it's like, I don't know, I don't, I don't think this is not the fight he actually wants. He wants to make people look bad. He wants to win versus Governor Walz. It's, it's honestly why rich, like, on the topic of ice, it's why a lot of Republicans will say the reason why you don't see any of this uproar in Florida and Texas is because local municipalities are actually assisting ICE. That's not why. You can't have this happen in red states. Because if people are actually getting shot in red states, it will start to create community uproar. It's like, especially if they're executing their constitutional rights. So I am fully convinced at this point that ICE in blue states is given completely different instructions for how they are supposed to handle themselves rather than in red shades because here's the deal like again texas and florida have the second and third highest number of undocumented immigrants registered in this country okay and like new york is number one actually california is number one i think right one of the two of them is number one but like yeah but like there is a reason why ice is not in new york city right now which is where i live in my opinion and that's because you need people who physically look like Renee Good and look like Alex Preddy and look like people who are your Republicans stereotypical viewpoint of what a liberal looks like. You don't need woman in polka dot dress leaving work, flipping off an ICE vehicle, like getting blasted around because the idea that New Yorkers dressed in business wear are like getting in fights with ICE and potentially getting shot that is horrible reality show for trump yep that's a spectacle that he doesn't i mean it's a spectacle he does not want they went to maine yeah right main where they all everyone knows that's where i'm from yes and i could tell you maine is the whitest state in the country five percent uh i think there were maybe four or five people of color in my entire senior class uh i mean portland has changed a lot since i was there there's a lot of people moving from New York and Boston for, you know, Portland's a great city, yada, yada, yada. But like, there are not that many undocumented people there. And mostly what I heard was that they were rounding up people who, like at one point they rounded up a hundred people, six of them had a criminal record, right? Six. And all the people in that area, they're all going, what, what is happening here? Also Maine is a state that is so old. There are not enough workers to do jobs. So like they're like we talked to Dan Kleban, who runs Maine Beer Company and was running for Senate before Janet Mills jumped in. And he was like, I'm having to tell some of my staff to stay home, which means I can't produce as much, which means I can't sell as much, which, you know, has the trickle down effect. Or people in Lewiston, where there is a Somali population, very similar to Minneapolis. All of the Somali immigrants are staying at home instead of going to the going to work. It's going to stores, going to work. It's killing the economy in Maine. But they're there because Janet Mills stood up to Donald Trump and went in the White House about the trans stuff. They went to court. She won. So he wants to like shit all over her. He wanted to go after Tim Walls because he was a vice presidential candidate running against him a year and a half ago. It's very obvious, right? Like, you know, I mean, Minnesota thing that like it again, everybody who's listening. I apologize for hijacking this conversation, but this is something I'm very, very passionate about. this is what i hear from us enough the the minnesota thing take a step back and look at the timeline of everything that's happened over the course of the past four months okay the somali daycare story was something that happened in 2021 yeah okay the person who was responsible for it was already prosecuted by the fbi and sentenced and charged it is an old story OK. It was the pretext to be able to support what is happening in Minneapolis right now. OK. And it is so disturbing that that is the rationality, which is. Fabricate something, make it a big deal, get a base that has the media literacy of my left ass cheek. it's like to try and like process information because they won't google shit like like you could literally google somalia daycare controversy and it will tell you the timeline it will tell you it's like that this is not something that is that this is something that's like five years old they won't care it's like they will just still see now you have confirmation bias which is right people are stealing your tax dollars that is the foundation you have people are stealing your tax dollars it's like that even though if you even did more further research you received that a majority that was state funded it's like but they're stealing your tax dollars so then you open yourself up to illegal immigrants are the reason why your life fucking sucks yes and then you can just go on a barrage because they now believe that when they see u.s citizens who are progressive democrat liberals whatever you want to call them protesting what they believe is the reason why their life financially sucks, that is how you actually build a strong base and a coalition. Yes. You need the danger layer. That's what I usually call it because it's got to be something where you are in trouble if you don't listen to this point. And that's how they always get them in there. And the other element of it too, though, that I think people don't look at, and especially people on the left because they aren't exposed to the information very much from what do they get in their media diet, the border numbers was really the big justification for ICE in general, not now, but when Trump was running, it was like, look at the border. It's a mess. If you look at the border numbers, I mean, Trump accomplished his goal. The number of crossings is dramatic, like 95% lower than it's ever, you know, in a very long time. I forget the number, but I read it recently. I was like, Jesus, in the end, that's how he keeps Republicans from giving the shit the way we do about what ICE is doing now, because it goes, look, the ends justify the means I did what I said I was going to do Nobody coming here because they too afraid to So So even in the end it not so much just about what going on on the ground It about Trump being able to justify going well I got the result you voted for And they go yeah I guess you did And they look past it But they don't ever ask the follow up question to that, which is how did this help you? Right. Well, that's yeah. They're going to realize it didn't. That's the big thing. But also, just so people are clear, the border crossing numbers at the end of Joe Biden's term were lower than they were at the end of Donald Trump's first. term yes so like there was already some of this happening yeah but like you can't say that to that because there's just like oh that guy who like couldn't even like stay awake and i'm like wait isn't your guy sleeping in cabinet meetings yeah they don't care about it it's the same as the inflation argument well it was nine percent so it's like oh my god right but it was like double that in europe right like we actually you can't you just can't you could tell somebody like japan's inflation rate was like 16.5 yeah it's like they don't care yeah they don't it's like we you could tell people we recovered faster than any other modern country in the world in terms of being able to like rear in it's like they won't care it's like apparently joe biden was responsible for a global pandemic yes it's they look at it like he cheated on them and then that's it forever like anything he does like nope you cheated though was like but he didn't even do it it's just so i can't also the the things that he did that did have some inflationary effect we needed to do yes because people couldn't eat yes they couldn't pay their rent we would have there was what were we supposed to do nothing which is what the republicans always do and then like i mean you go look at the depression there you could see like when republicans were in charge and they wouldn't do things it was bad democrats come in push stuff in and they're like oh let's back it off it's bad again like it it's but like and i think you can't explain that to people one of the saddest parts about all of this is i have at least four friends who are in new york and la who are part of the gig economy and the narrative of what the government should and should not do is so insane where my four friends, they have basically just decided they cannot pay the premium spikes on their healthcare coverage. I have four friends who are in their mid to late thirties who are currently walking around New York city and Los Angeles with no healthcare because it jumped from 600 to 1200 to $1,500 a month for them. And they have just accepted this. And I sit there and I wonder about Republican voters who are in this, who are like, you cannot actually blame Obama for this. You physically have to stop doing this. And I think if there is one thing that makes me want to run my face through a concrete wall on a weekly basis, It is simply this. And this is actually how I got my dad to finally leave MAGA. He's still a Republican, but I finally got him to leave MAGA because I basically said, how can you possibly support something as a fiscally conservative Republican where our government spending is out of control right now? How can you possibly support this? And we have removed certain aspects of the social protections that you actually benefit from the minute that my dad found out that some of his medication was going to get more expensive he lost his fucking mind yep and and that was that was my opening to go for to explain to him exactly what was happening with the aca subsidies with the medicaid subsidies with the agreements where when he says that he reduced the price of medication by 90 that was exclusively for ozempic right yes it's true and that's the thing it's like i've been saying that all along is that nothing will change until the people who voted for him actually feel the detriment of voting for him like that's just that you can make any argument you want when people wake up and the day feels the same as it did before it's not going to matter all that much but when they wake up and go holy shit the budget of my house is not what i want it to be and it's gotten worse then you got something or like the president saying last week on an interview that he want that like his goal is to increase the price of housing yes holy shit How can you watch that and hear him say, I want housing, I want the, I want the value of your houses to go through the moon. And I'm sitting there and I'm like, does nobody hear this and hear to themselves? He's, he wants it to be unaffordable to be able to afford a home. it's actually one of the dumbest things i've ever heard him say it it kind of got swept under because there's just too much shit but the other thing you were saying and i'm sitting there i'm like uh hello it's like it's like we like people like like we're and we're simultaneously trying to convince people to take a 50-year mortgage oh my god i can't even start with that didn't he also say like i want you guys to be rich basically homeowners should be rich but we're also going to create affordable housing and it's like you fucking idiot like how how unless you're going to build them yourself and nobody nobody talked about this because again we can't keep up he gave 20 billion dollars to fannie mae and freddie mack like like like his solution for housing was to give money to the loan sharks yep that's the world it'll trickle down right yeah exactly it'll all where will it trickle yeah nowhere well i think we have we talked to justin wolfers about this on on tuesday i think we have finally the myth of trickle down economics can be put in the grave like we have tried it like five times since the 80s and it never works well here's the thing tim it it works if you're a moron right it's like i almost like god you guys i have to be completely honest and i apologize if i upset voters i have become so close to just retaking the r word because i am so fed up with people calling me it i get called that every single day it's like in social media i am so fed up that i've almost reclaimed it okay but i will use moron okay like the moronic aspect of that entire narrative okay again is i forgot what my trail of thought was because i almost used the r word but were we talking about you all worked up about the housing stuff trickle down economics politically the crazy thing about trickle economics is is that like people are pointing to the to like what was the 3.4 or the 5.7 gdp okay and they're like look how amazing we are god bless you donald trump 5.7 gdp growth best and i'm sitting there and i'm like did you read the rest of the fucking report because the fucking report says that this is driven by the amount of money we're spending on defense contracts it's driven by increased health care costs and it's driven by rich people buying shit and going on international trips That is literally what the last report said. Does nobody read past the headline? The answer is no. If that's not you, then you're not in these numbers. They also have, right, they have a vast right-wing media ecosystem that is pumping them full of this bullshit 24-7. Whether it's Facebook, whether it's Ben Shapiro, whether it's any of these people, and they're just like, that's great, that's great. And then the people are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. And they're going to do it. Well, yeah. And some of them were paid by Russia. Yeah. I'm just saying this. It's like, if anybody wants to pay me to fight, like, please pay me. Like, I'm not above it. Absolutely not. I'll say anything. Same. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's all frustrating. But we're almost at time. But we got to end on a positive note. Yeah. I don't know what that is as I'm saying it out loud. It's like, where are you going to go with this? And I'm going to filibuster for a second. I know for a second. to give people something to think about um i have a question for nathan i have a question for nathan okay um because he's our guest and i don't know what you're gonna say here um we've had this conversation i think we all have our own opinions on this but once you know you you painted a picture earlier of like you know you've got the stephen millers and the stephen bannons and all the non stephen nazis um all trying to create you know use trump like he's the host is there another host once trump has gone or do all of these people fall back into the swamp i'm gonna be no i i think the scary thing is that the person who was probably positionally the most qualified to be able to fill that host seat got his neck shot out last year yeah it's like um and i also weirdly my most unpopular opinion i think in this space is i think there's a tiny aspect of jd where he's not like a red pill mag a person and he's just doing it for like his own monetary gain yeah like i actually like i read hillbilly elegy it's like and so that's why i sat there and i'm just like i don't understand what happened it's like like and i think it's just you want to become famous and you want to become known it's like you know but there's also a chance he could be worse because there's no deals money and selling out yeah the worst thing then and completely incoherent like dementia like induced is dying before our eyes 80 something year old person is like a 43 year old who actually can speak in coherent sentences so that could actually be worse um i don't know i am kind of ready for maga to burn their hats and and you know move on from this i don't think they have an heir apparent i actually know from my family members who are maga they're not really they're not really excited about jd vance to be really honest with you snake oil salesman he's not he's just not well but so is yeah no no no but trump's got a charm to him but he's not it could easily be one of his kids it really that's what i was gonna say Donald Trump Jr. or Tucker Carlson. Those are the two where I'm like, I can see those. I swear to God, you guys, I have told this to my husband because he is a dual citizen of Canada and the U.S. I basically said, this is my nightmare scenario. My nightmare scenario is actually that Ivanka Trump becomes our first woman president. And I said, if that happens, we are moving to Canada because I actually cannot deal with the stupidity in this country. I mean, if that were to happen, I might have to pick up and leave. Yeah. I'm already ready to go. This, guys, this was not the happy ending that I was asking for. oh i mean i heard no there's no heir apparent um no you heard ivanka trump is going to be the next president he said that that is not good he didn't say that it was gonna happen no i so what was the optimism or the good news in that i think we have a shot i think there's no is that right now maga is not excited about who their options are for 2028 i think there i think that there is a lot of optimism in that i think that's right nailed it and i don't think that they are i don't think they're excited about voting in the midterms no like they're not you can see that if you look at that texas special election republicans are not enthusiastic about eight percent turnout in that election right i think like eight percent of republicans it was like 12 but it was a 32 point swing yeah nuts because trump but trump did an ad trump did it or he endorsed he endorsed her several times she had a weird she went she had spent uh lambs lambs lambs uh no wabs camp not gonna work here anymore that's like a succession right that's a good news this is the good news to leave with that special election in texas in my opinion is actually way more indicative than any of the results in november and that is because that is a heavy red district where people were not enthusiastic to vote he's giving them no reason one of the best chances that democrats have in the midterms is the fact that that republicans who are are not loud on social media are hypothetically looking at what's happening in this country and saying, well, I didn't vote for this, but I'm not ready to say that to my neighbors and my friends. Right. Yeah. No, it's, well, there was, there was the, uh, uh, I think it was last week, the, the SNL skit about this where the mom, the MAGA mom is sitting with her very liberal kids. And And it's this whole thing where she's like, you know, after all these 10 years, I think that I think maybe Donald Trump doesn't tell the truth all the time. And then the kids go, what the fuck, mom? And they're like, she's like, I'll go back. She's like, you yell at me. I'm going back. I'm going right back. And then she goes, I don't. It's possible that Donald Trump might not be the best businessman. And they're like, mom, like, are you kidding? You know, this whole thing. it's sort of that well who was who was who was that huge conservative like bro creator last week who said who didn't specify but he said he said it was all a lie it's like he posted on social marjorie taylor green said that no no no it was there was the guy ryan or mark but there was a guy who was heavy on the trump train for eight years who came out and everybody knew what he was talking about but he basically said he's like it was all a lie it's like and and i think that and everybody knew what he was saying and then he doubled down and basically explained and his way of explaining it was all government fails us it was all a lie yeah it's like so like people are like you you know joe rogan's changed his tune you know i mean it's like changes to sean what's his face too right yeah you have oh was he the one that said it was a lie sean um sean ryan ryan that is the positive right now is that the worst fucking people in this country imaginable which is what i and i apologize to the three of you because i'm about to say this but if you saw this in my video i said the the worst pandemic in this country is straight white men with a microphone in front of their face but that was not directed towards you it was it was directed towards the conservative own media landscape which is a bunch of got of dudes with microphones right it's like and they are all changing their tune of course okay so it's sean ryan former navy seal yeah sean ryan show vocal critic of the muse and the ai summary on google but yeah so calling out the official narrative around the Epstein files got a feud with Dan Crenshaw oh damn well here's the I think to oh Dan to piggyback on uh on Nathan's comment that like MAGA only wins when they're all they all vote right like and that happens that happened in 16 it didn't happen in 2020 because there was so much chaos and there was also a surge of people who didn't vote and then in 2024 all MAGA voted and then in 2025 most of mega didn't and we swept all of those races and he's not going to be on ballot again and there's the and i think there are enough fissures on the edges that like they just they're not going to come out in the numbers that they need to but that doesn't mean democrats don't need to do the work no they do they do they need to do the work but i mean i have like i have multiple friends of mine who are you know multiple time trump voters and they all are like this is bad like he's doing a bad job i'm not happy with him at all and they're not like mega they're just like regular republicans those regular republicans hate what he's doing yeah and they have permission to just not do that yeah they can just if they want to i want everyone to vote for democrats but if they choose to not vote for his agenda especially in the midterms when it's like okay we have a lot of those so like if they can just republicans can they get some of that purity going uh no i think it's true though i think i i think they're i think they're in trouble so that's the good news alright we're going to end it on that thank you very much we've all been friends for a while now and I'm glad we could finally do this I mean I'm sure everybody listening you know where you can find me I am the lone gay Asian political commentator it's like in this space it is not hard to find me I've seen you on MS Now and CNN too do you know CNN? no um i am not on cnn but um i was on ms now it's like and um which was i had an out-of-body experience yeah i could imagine i yeah but i didn't sound stupid which is all i cared about i didn't see the whole thing but i saw the screenshots you looked very composed and very smart and you were very confident so i'm sure you did a good job um so everybody you already follow him so i don't you don't need to go in but anyways keep following with that thank you I'm just going to do my real fast buy our merch. It's great. It's American made. I'm just, just doing it at the end and go get a subscription on sub. You know, maybe if I do it faster, we'll get more. I don't know. We'll see. Anyways. Thank you everybody. Have a great weekend and we will be back on Tuesday.