Timberwolves Assistant Micah Nori On What Makes Anthony Edwards and Kobe Special, Coaching Rookie Jokic and His Coaching Journey

The game plan was, you know what? We're going to force it to be tough on Kobe, make him score. Well, he did. I don't care if he scores 80. Make it tough. Well, okay. I was also on the bench with Sacramento when play got 37 in the third on like seven dribbles. So thank God. You don't want to hire me as your damn defense. all right everybody another episode of throwbacks if i sound a little sad it's because football's over but don't worry we're gonna turn it around we are gonna talk hoops i get to talk hoops later there we go this is the time this is the time of the year where jerry all of a sudden lights up like a christmas tree we get to talk mba for the next yes and we have a cool uh we have a cool mba guest uh we'll talk about him in a second uh because he needs his own proper intro but mad you were out there i unfortunately did not make it it was a combination of baby being born my two older kids went down with the flu i ended up watching the super bowl with the flu on my cell phone under covers while sweating out a fever i mean listen man excuses are like holes everybody has one that's what they say i didn't have my flu game in me but uh how was all in all before that you get to the game how are the vibes in san france you know what the vibes well first of all hot take uh super bowl should always be in las vegas super super bowl should always be in las vegas i don't get it i just i don't understand what we're doing trying to bounce around and i and i get it for the city itself but like super bowl should be in las vegas nevada it is the epicenter it is built to host it is it is it is the best i i will say this san francisco the energy was good because San Francisco is a really unique, cool city. If those of you have been there, you know, if those of you haven't, obviously you've seen pictures like it's a really cool city on the water and all this up, the history, the architecture, all that. Obviously, the city has taken it over the last handful of years, to say it loosely. But I will say this, the vibes are good. I enjoyed it. You know, we walked around, the parties were fun. I saw a lot of old friends um you know how super bowl weekend is man it's like event to event to event and you do this and you do that and then by the time the game rolls around you want to go home i actually went home saturday night but um we did the throwbacks triple option pod which was yeah it was great saw the guys out there so uh all in all it was it was great um i always enjoyed that weekend it should be in vegas it's actually in la next year which is great but it should be in vegas every year and then just the game you know like obviously happy for sam darnold and the seahawks you know a lot of the narrative was his journey and you know how everybody wrote him off and and the path of quarterbacks and we talk a lot about it on the show it's pretty it's pretty remarkable the redemption story if you really think about in the history of the sport um like what five teams in eight years been thrown to the wolves all these things and then he ends up winning a super bowl and by the way just as bald like he didn't have to do much in this game obviously but over the last two years but he did what he needed to do yeah he did i mean and he did what he needed to do in the playoffs too so um shout out to the seahawks your super bowl champs that was a dominant defense sam did great kenneth walker um was outstanding good story about uh and uh and and and and drake may keep your head up man drake may's a star uh patriots probably overachieved this year but um nfl is the best it was a great season uh culmination with the seahawks being your Super Bowl champs so before I ask you a few questions about the game that I have for you give me your your favorite party and then your favorite run-in could and it doesn't have to be necessarily a famous person yeah favorite party your favorite run-in that good question favorite party um favorite party and it could be because the food was good like it could be a random yeah I mean I didn't really eat too much at the parties uh the favorite I would say probably um um my draft kings party friday night was pretty pretty legit and um i hung out with portnoy a little bit um run-ins i mean run-ins actually you know what the best running i had that night i ran into two run-ins uh larry fitzgerald i ran into friday night draft receiver your wide receiver won the night before he got inducted into the hall of fame so he made the hall of fame which is awesome so i hadn't we text but i hadn't seen him in a while so we caught up for like 10 15 minutes that was pretty cool so i got to run into him and then honestly dude my favorite run-in was anquan bolden i had both my receivers i hadn't seen anquan or talk to him in 15 years for whatever reason you know he's quiet kind of does no thing i'm in the lobby and he's talking to tj hushman zada and i just get in and i know tj he's out i know i know tj i i talk to him all the time because of flag football and all this kind of stuff and i i go up to tj what up and And then Q goes, Matt. I go, shit, Q, what up? It was like the coolest thing, man. We caught up for a couple minutes. It was just good to see him because I always talk about it. I said it's like one of my favorite teammates of all time and one of the best pure football players I've ever seen. I hope he gets in the Hall of Fame. I don't know if he will, but, man. And then, dude, just, you know, obviously I saw Jameis. I saw Jameis on the red carpet at EA. That was fun. You know how it is. You just run into everybody and you kind of say what up, and then you kind of go about your way. But tons of great run ins. But seeing my old teammates was the best, I think. And you you would be a far better judge. But as a fan of the game watching football for almost 40 years, I think Anquan Bolden is one of the toughest I've ever seen. Because I think it is one play when someone on the Jets in the end zone speared him in the face. I was I was on my team. I was on and he broke his face, essentially. so what happened yeah i dude it's it's the craziest thing ever next week or two weeks later we're playing we're playing it was when brett farve was on the jet on the jets yes we're playing in new york and kurt throws a it was like it was uh you know four vertical or three by one seams and he throws a seam and i think it was jim leonard that yeah i'm almost positive anquan goes up and just boom and just lays lifeless honestly i'm getting chills think about it because we were like oh shit like that's bad because then you start to think the worst i walk up to a man and he's like eyes back of his head we're all kind of there we kind of gather around long story short i he breaks like his orbital bone he breaks his jaw and other fractures we i think he was supposed to miss like six weeks or so i think his his jaw was wired shut he played he played two or three weeks later we had a bye stunned yeah he played three weeks later when like this this dude i always say this this is like one of the few guys in the league that now it's different right now all these kids a lot of these guys could probably play both ways um but like back then like i was like anquan is a great receiver he could probably play outside linebacker or safety like you know he was just he was just such a great football player but yeah man we dude one of the toughest dudes i've ever met. It would have been cool to get a video of the three of you all together. Someone did send me a video of Jameis and Scadaboo lining up. They were on the red carpet for the EA party. Jameis was doing stuff with Kay Adams and Scadaboo and Jackson Dart were together. I didn't get a chance to see them, but I saw Mendoza. I mean, gosh, you know, man, you just see everybody. I talked to Mendoza for a while. He's so funny, man. Catch up with, gosh, who else? You can catch up with a lot of guys, man. So I'm going to give the audience my fever dream slash one of the greatest bets I've ever made in my life. Now stick with me for a second and try and follow this. So I bet a lot of basketball, right? We have a great basketball guest coming up. We're going to talk about that in a second. We're going to talk hoops for the rest of the show after we talk Super Bowl. So I like to throw in these like eight or nine leg parlays on props, usually involving the Knicks, but very safe, like not long shots like Jalen Brunson, one, three cat six rebounds. So the odds aren't insane at all. So I put in the 10 I put in the 10 leg last week and I saw I was like plus 400. I bet I took 60 bucks to win like 300 and it hits. Right. I hit all 10. but then i don't get paid so i'm looking in the app and i'm like why didn't i get paid as i'm scrolling i see 60 to win 3 000 i'm like wait what i from a day before had a bet slip with a super bowl mvp pick that i was toying with that i guess i didn't delete and somehow this nicks 10 leg parlay attached to that so i have this 10 leg hit and the super bowl mvp pick matt i shit you not who's kenneth walker at plus 800 so the whole bet in its entirety plus 60 bucks to win 3 000 how excited were you i well not at first i was mad because i'm like oh i had i had this 10 leg nice little 300 victory which is hard to win bets so i just thought it was a dead ticket so then the game starts now i'm sick all week and i'm in bed with the flu i'm watching on my phone I see Kenneth Walker with the big first half. I doze off somewhere in the third quarter, wake up, and I start seeing, oh, Myers is kicking all these field goals. Yeah. So now I'm like in hedge mode. I'm thinking I should throw – because his odds were still like plus 1,200 or something. I should throw 100 bucks on Myers to win. These are going to be the two guys. So this is my hedge. And then I thought – I put a bet slip, and I swear, Matt, I thought I placed bet. I fell asleep again for like 10 minutes because it was fever. And then I woke up midway through the fourth quarter, never put the bed in, and Kenneth Walker hit. So I literally won a $60 parlay to win three G's on Kenneth Walker to win Super Bowl MVP. Why are you falling asleep at 5.30 in the afternoon? Because I had the flu, bro. I had 102 fever. Man. And also that game was terrible anyway. Yeah, it wasn't real. Well, that's why I want to – first of all, it's like Drake May you had to think was still hurt. I'm not trying to excuse his play, but I will say, Matt, I don't know how closely you were like if you were on the couch for the first quarter. Those first few Darnold passes were shaky as shit. Like the Pats jumped routes. Well, the first pass of the game almost was a pick. They ran like that little out. They ran like a little stick route to the tight end and he caught it. But yeah, I was worried for him because they were on him and he was still but he kept throwing it. and then like i don't know i just felt like rabel was waiting for the darnold mistake that just never happened like the pats are playing for the seahawks to make a mistake listen i i think this was one of those games where i just for me personally i was telling people and again i didn't know what the outcome was going to be but i was telling people i'm like don't overthink this game if you're betting seattle is a much better team they just are like it like and and again you have a dominant either number one defense in all of football going up against the patriots offense that's like i don't even want to say it's smoke and mirrors but like like drake may is a star you know but but they don't really have like they didn't scare you you know what i mean like they didn't they didn't really have like stefan diggs isn't the player and they haven't played a good game in like yeah so it's like you know they were kind of coming in like like like seattle's like i guarantee in those meetings that defense staff's like dude we're they're not going to score a point on us like i just guarantee that and then on top of that you combine that with one the patriots defense i know it's playing pretty well but still not like not an elite elite defense and you had jsn you have kenneth walker you had sam who's playing really well so it was awesome yeah it just it was one of those things where it was fairly lopsided if you really dive into it i thought that's why a lot of people were on seattle and the spread and the number but like yeah so like i thought sam played well i mean he had a great you know great pass to cooper cup early on the sideline He just did what he had to do, and they leaned on the run game, and that's all they had to do in that game. And Drake May, I would just say whether he was hurt or not, their offensive line got beat up. He kind of knew that was going to happen. He's young, man. They just need to – and Frable is outstanding, but they just need to get some guys around him. They need to get a number one. Travion Henderson is a good young running back, but get that guy on the outside. you know because again the whole narrative after is like well they'll be it's like it's like dude it's hard to get back i mean you still got buffalo in there you know these teams are going to get better um and and the schedule obviously was you know it was the easiest schedule in the nfl this year so um but yeah man sam sam did his thing and and again and that seattle defense was suffocating i mean and i just saw them and the rams are the what the highest odds to win it next year i mean think about that the rams think about that it's like that was the super bowl matt yeah that was We knew it. And you can just see the difference between Stafford and the coaching of an offense and the playmakers they have as opposed to like what Drake Bay and all that. You know, because, I mean, Stafford lit up that Seattle defense multiple times this year. Did you see any of the Julian Love wired up stuff? Yeah. So he was coming off. Yeah, he was coming off just going, man, these young boys, like they plant that back foot, but they wait that one second. He's like Stafford was planting that back foot. And he wasn't even looking. yeah it's just yeah it's just yeah but that's that's the experience man i mean that's like dreg mays is as a young star man yeah he's going to be a great player for a long time he just that just that happens with with reps experience yeah stafford played 18 years dude the dude's been doing no look passes for a decade when dreg may was still in middle school you know well i thought it was an a plus football season even though the super bowl game wasn't the greatest game it was still was entertaining in spots i think all in all the season was an a plus and now obviously we get to reset things i'm hopeful for my giants but i'm really looking to we talked a little bit off the air of you know sam's one of the best redemption stories in the nfl we'll ever see right super bowl champion i like that he was at disneyland with kenneth walker people giving him shit they invited say would you want to be kenneth walker going alone or like he's not like sam like yeah it's not like sam went on his own yeah like come on like i would love if i got invited to Disneyland, I'd be like, hey, Matt, want to come? Like, I would invite my boy. So, but I am trying to figure out who's the next kind of comeback guy. It might take a few years for it to happen, you know, because I don't think we're not going to get one of these a year. Baker sort of rebooted his stuff. Basically, a lot of guys who went through the Panthers system. But I mean, there's some interesting names out there of guys who definitely need redemption. Daniel Jones certainly seemed like he was on his way like is it kyle murray you know what's an interesting one and i'm just thinking about this now is like they made the playoffs this year is bryce young yeah he's now i don't think i don't think carolina is like this super bowl contender but they did make the playoffs but you look at kind of like he got benched this year i mean he got benched for andy dalton right this year right yeah like and then came back and led them to and like he's been kind of this up and down for three or four years and a majority of it surrounding him has been sort of negative you know like and like like there just isn't a lot of positive like that's one that could be interesting yeah i mean it's i mean then you look at the big guys like i mean josh allen still hasn't won bro hasn't won in a long time lamar like the big name guys who are always there herbert like now i think surrounding with some new staff and all this like it's going to be interesting man that's why the nfl is the best because the parody is so great this year was was just so weird going to the playoff because you had like you could have picked any of these teams to win it really right i mean at the end of the day the number one defense prevailed i mean that that's what happened and a good running attack which is typically what happens jerry in the in the playoffs awesome year uh and i'll be sad till it comes back but i i'm starting to get into like basketball mode masters coming up in april Sticking with hoops. And again, I don't know how you pulled this off, Matt. I know you don't want to be a guest booker by day, but some of these guests... I mean, I should be getting paid for guest booking. I would be down for you to get some extra money because I don't know how you got our guest today, an NBA-centric coach. He is an active coach who is currently on his way, probably as we're recording this now, to go coach somewhere, and he's scouting for someone. Do you want to take the table here? Because you know him. This is your friend. I'm curious how you guys know each other. The lead assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves is Micah Norrie. Micah Norrie is joining our throwback show today. I met Micah kind of long. The long story short, Finchie, who's the head coach, is great. Micah is great. There's a connection there with A-Rod, who is an owner of the T-Wolves. Fox, our producer. Bardia. shout out to Barty and my guy, um, who got to know these guys through a rod, you know, being around basketball and all these kinds of things. Finch and Micah have come to big noon kickoff a handful of times over the years. Um, whether they're on the road playing in Cleveland or whether it's Michigan, Ohio state, like Micah came, I believe last year, the year before it brought his family out to Michigan, Ohio state. Um, so like, I just got to know these guys and I got to know Micah really well. We text on, he's just an awesome guy and he's a hell of a basketball coach um so you know with the nba going on football over we got all-star kind of coming up we hit him up and just say hey come on let's talk some ball let's talk let's talk let's talk nba now where they sit obviously they're always a perennial playoff team over the last couple years uh the gauntlet of the west and how you defend some of these players and and and most that he's got the he's been coaching over 20 years coach vince and tracy mcgrady he was with toronto the guys he's coached charles oakley in toronto vince and t-mac he coached yokich for a couple years yes he's coached anthony edwards obviously over the last handful of years um he is he is he was he was on the raptor staff when kobe went for 81 and he tells that story um he's been around he's gonna be an nba head coach yeah the knicks interviewed him uh before they hired mike brown and um famously too for those of you still want like he remember when Finch got hit on the sideline and messed up his knee We talked about that because Micah then was next man up He was on the front line while Finch went to the second row. And then the best part about Micah Norrie, besides his basketball acumen, is, I don't know, you know, he's the assistant coach. He comes out after halftime and has to do those interviews. And he works in what these funny, did they come up with these funny things to say beforehand is that well i think it's big i think and because you know they get they're so boring and so like oh like yeah we need to we need to box out better away we need to be better on the fast break so i i know this for a fact because he and i have i've done this on big noon he gets together with his staff and they come up with some funny phrase to say that he has to get into a pregame or a halftime interview and that's what makes it even better when you listen to it well there's a great cut up on twitter of of mike and Nori's best ones. So let's play this clip so you know what we're talking about. And the first one for me is my favorite thing of all time. Let's play it. Mike and Nori, sideline interviews. Nothing fast, break points, boom goes the dynamite, there goes our lead. We got to treat Bane like you do the elf on a shelf on Christmas morning. You got to find him. He makes everybody comfortable. He's like popcorn during Saturday night movies. Our paint defense was like 7-11, open 24 hours. Realize they had hits on like Donkey Kong the way they started out. First time all year that we're kind of on almost like a hot mess express it's just stellar the best the best part is he keeps a straight face knowing that he's just being an idiot doing that with his coaches he's asked you to work something in on big noon yeah i've gotten i've gotten stuff in on big noon during a live show or even like a taped and our and our producer bardi will be in our ear hey hey remember get in boom boom goes the dynamite boom goes the dynamite like this year like i got in like the whole six, seven craze. Right. So I got in a six, seven reference deadpan talking about whatever, six, seven yards per game. And I, and I was just like, yeah, he's at, you know, he's averaging about six, seven yards per game. And I did the hand gesture, but dead serious into the camera and the boys, Mark and Brady next to me, look at me and they just start laughing. They're like, you gotta be kidding me, dude. The elf on the shelf was great. Yeah. So yeah, Micah, Micah is fantastic, man. And again, like I said, he's a future NBA head coach, whether it's this cycle or the next he's going to be he's going to be a head coach here sooner than later i agree well we're kicking we're kicking the mic in a second it is all-star weekend coming up and we thought for our wendy's fresh take it's only fitting to stick with basketball and we're going to do that right now so it's our fresh take of the week presented by wendy's get yourself a four dollar biggie bites six dollar biggie bag or eight dollar biggie bundle now at wendy's so matt i thought we should just talk dunk contest because i think it's the only part of all-star weekend that i still understand what's happening and that you actually what's happening in the game yeah and that you actually tune into to at least see if it's any good yeah and i think we should name a few we could do three or just whatever calls to you not favorite dunk contests favorite dunks from any dunk contest well well first i want to say when i was growing up there were like at this time of the year, there were two things that you would almost schedule things around, right? One was like March Madness. When you grew up, you were like, man, I got it. If you got to miss school for March Madness, I think I missed school. Like, or you got, you're home sick. Like I just loved watching like Thursday March Madness or you would come home and watch it. Right. And that still exists today for the most part. The other one was the dunk contest, dude. Cause you and I about the same age i mean you grew up in you know like like the the late 80s 90s dunk contest when it was jordan and it was dominique and it was spud webb sean kemp came around sean kemp in the 90s like jason richardson in the night like kobe in the 90s and the slam dunk contest was just a can't miss whether it was saturday night you didn't go you were glued to the tv to watch the freaking slam slam dunk contest so i i do want i say that because like i'm not going to really say any jordan dunk like jordan there's a there's probably a hundred better dunks than what jordan did when you actually look at it but like he was the trendsetter it was the aura of jordan it was the it was the flying in the air it was the gold chain it was the tongue out like he is icon there's no question he's an icon um so i guess i'll give i'll just i'll just give my top three and then are my three favorite ones and then you go if that works 2003 jason richardson dunk the lob between the legs baseline and then he kind of threw yeah it kind of throw in there like yeah it was just yeah just it was just ridiculous the zach levine which i'm sure we're both going to have zach levine and he rivals vince carter's maybe the greatest dunker of all time the 2016 free throw line for me through the legs and just like i mean just like with ease and then the favorite one uh 2000 nba dunk contest with t max d francis was vince carter and for me it was the 360 windmill dunk just and it's just like the cupping like he's flying in the air he's still going up as he's already doing turning the opposite way though it was crazy i got i mean i got goosebumps you just watch it you're like and vince carter is like six six like he's i mean i know he's listed six seven but he's not that much taller than me he's like six six six six and a half kind of like mj so it just looks like they're flying through the air man i mean gosh i don't know i could name i mean i left out a million of them but i can name a hundred of them but those to me are kind of three that i remember like god damn how did he do that we gotta remember to ask Mike and Norrie because he coached both Vince Carter and T-Mac up there what those practices oh yeah like because I'm sure he saw some shit no those are all those are all undeniably great yeah for sure before we get to your guy yeah your dunks who would you pay money to see to be in the dunk contest I imagine Anthony Edwards is one but if you could get three or four guys in today's NBA right now that you want to see square off in the dunk contest who are they ant for sure because i do think if he did it he's so competitive like he would he was going to win he's not going there to like i think if it's like healthy jaw like i don't know how healthy jaw is these days if you give me a job from like two years ago where he still has his legs and he's healthy i'm like all in on that dude um vj edgecomb give me vj edgecomb on the sixers that dude is looks electric and then like i do want like just a pure dunker like it not necessarily mac mcclung but i mean i don't know who's like the best like i loved all right so one of my guys here's what i would put in as just like i mean zion williamson could we i mean could we i mean even zion now i just don't think like i would worry about his safety i would worry about yeah but that aside Like you had a dunk contest with Zion, Ja, Anthony Edwards. Are you kidding me? And Vijay Edgecoe. Trust me, Vijay Edgecoe. You could throw Vijay in there. I mean he's a young buck, but I'm just saying like I'm glued. Like I don't even know who's in the dunk contest this weekend. Well, you know who I used to love watching? He's not a big name, but he's a great dunker, and he's on my list for Derek Jones Jr. Yeah. Because he on Miami had that dunk where he basically caught it, went through his legs, dunk. And it led us to the Dwayne Wade meme. Like he's in that outfit in Miami with the glasses. It's one of the best NBA memes of all time that was off of the Derek dunk. So that one's up there for me. My number two, Aaron Gordon over the mascot, but under his legs. Yeah, that's ridiculous. And I know we give six, ten dudes a hard time. like oh you're in the dunk on you're 6 10 how hard is it try being 6 10 and lifting your legs well his ability to float and like hang at 6 10 is ridiculous like he he looks the same as someone like zach levine and 6 6 like flying through the air like his his dunk i'm telling you that dunk contest was unbelievable and for me i it's vince carter it's the when he did the elbow in the hoop thing you could say now that that's not okay i get it probably 90 if not 99 the nba could do that right but we just didn't even know you could do that back then it's not even like it's not even creative when you look at it but it's just you're just it's just like wait it's one of those where you're like wait wait wait what happened oh he put his elbow crease right like that generation not seeing that people would have lost their mind and i think that is it's not the greatest dunk but as far as iconic and also never saw that before and that's the problem the dunk contest now we've seen everything we've seen so much it's so hard for these guys so i will say i will say jor mj's where he like he rolled the ball like this and he did his little you know windmill like that yeah that shit i mean well there's that's the first time we really did where he jumps up with the ball high right and he goes like reverses under the hoop and he brings it back down but But then when he stuffs it in, his elbow is like – he almost did the elbow thing while wrapping underneath the hoop. It didn't really get as much hype as it should have. I mean Dominique was a great dunker too, man. Well, that's just like power. You want to talk about like – Just the power, two hands, just cock back all the way. If they had like – you know those punch machines that tell you how hard you punch? If they had that with like how hard you would dunk, Dominique Wilkins would have the high score on that for sure. So we agree Vince Carter is the greatest dunker of all time, right? I think so, but it's hard to ignore Levine and Gordon, though. But I think Carter in that generation, I think, would have been toe-to-toe with Levine and Gordon. Oh, for sure. And that's the greatest matchup you could have had. So shout-outs to Wendy's. We're going to ask Coach Mike Anori about some of these guys because he coached a lot of these people that we just talked about. So let's get into it. I can't believe you got an active coach during the year, Matt. Shout-outs to you. You're getting extra Wendy's money this week. this one gets me fired up boys our guest was once the captain of the indiana hoosiers baseball team where he also did a stint as a hitting coach a former statistician for the middletown high junior varsity basketball team he's partially responsible for kobe bryant's 81 point game we're going to get into that a little bit later he is known maybe more importantly for his strategic basketball insight and colorful and memorable sideline interviews. He currently serves as the lead assistant coach for the Minnesota Timberwolves and a buddy of mine, Coach Micah Norrie. Coach, what's up, man? How you doing? Thank you for having me. Excited. Dude, I don't know who's more excited, me or Jerry, because Jerry is the basketball nut on this pod. But you know I love you, man. I always love seeing you during the fall. And to get you on throwbacks is a real treat for us. No, thank you for having me. I'm excited as well. no this was good because like and that's always down the talk hoops he's a little bit more of a playoff guy like he really locks in around the playoffs but he enjoys watching me sweat i'm excited because for years i've been watching you and the the sideline quotes right and in-game quotes that we get with the minute you said we played the mashup that i'm sure you've seen floating around twitter we played it in our a block for our audience the minute you went boom goes to dynamite you stole my heart with that one because to me that's one of the best moments in sports media is boom goes to dynamite yeah for sure i think it was uh what's he doing i think it was a kid from ball state or something and yeah and there was the pacer clip with reggie miller and all that and uh yeah that was a good one and again all that stuff started because those halftime interviews to me like okay you have a coach out there and you're sitting there like what do you think oh we need to box out more we need to rebound more and they just seem so very mundane very monotonous and very boring for lack of a better term. So kind of came across that we were joking around one time, coach Malone in Denver was like, you know, we used to try to get things into pregame speakers for personnel, just to try to keep guys as you know, keep them in tune and all that. And so then I was like, well, why don't we try this? And then it came to a thing where guys started saying things. We, I bet you can't say this, but you won't say this. I bet you won't meow. I bet you won't do that. And it was like, all right, so what? So we just tried to figure it out. No, you know, have fun with it jerry my micah and i have texted when i'm on big noon and i'll say hey i'm gonna get this line in on live tv and and i've done it and we've sent you the clips man it's freaking hilarious it's just you know what it keeps it it keeps it fun and entertaining obviously oh yeah you got tom and jerry in remember i got tom that's it that was tom and jerry i was thinking i was like was it wiley coyote it was tom and jerry and we don't need to go into the history of tom and Jerry. But, um, yeah, I mean, listen, a lot of news, uh, this week for the T-Wolves, a little, a little, uh, little scrummage, uh, happened in the game. Well, what, what, what, what goes through a coach's mind when you see the players just out there throwing haymakers? It's funny. I've evolved. I think, you know, when I first started the NBA 28 years ago, I'd be one of those ones thinking run out there and try to break this up and all that. Now I'm the first one to turn to the bench and say, Hey guys, don't go on the floor. But it's a lot safer there. Let's hear it. You know, we have and now the staffs are so big and there's a lot of young guys that are all gung ho to run out there and try to break it up and all that. So but the first thing is, obviously, you hope that nobody throws a punch because then you're talking, number one, break a hand, all that type of thing. Not later, but just you don't want to deal with suspensions and all that type of thing. But and I will say the ones that have been of late and, you know, Nas has been in a couple of them. But the ones we had with Detroit, you look at Detroit's last night, these things are getting a little more serious. Usually you think of the basketball fight for nobody wanting to hit anybody. They're just looking for someone to stop. Yeah. Now, these things are getting a lot more serious. So, no, you will not see me in the middle of those scrums breaking those things up for sure. Well, I remember, you know, I'm a Knicks fan, grew up in New York in the 90s. And I remember watching that playoff series with the Heat in the 90s. And it was a hotly contested battle. And it was a big brawl. And Knicks players left the bench. And I don't think I knew that rule. and that rule wasn't really enforced in a long time. And for Game 7, or maybe it was Game 5 back then, I think the Knicks were down three starters. So I do remember every coach after that fight breaks out, and literally the job was to hold every player on the bench. So that's why it was interesting to see Stuart escape the coaching staff onto the floor in that Detroit brawl, yeah. Yeah, I think that one you're talking about, Jerry, was the one when Van Gundy was hanging on Alonzo's leg. Remember that? And then he caught him with it anyway. So, yeah, there were some. Are you a hang on the leg guy? I feel like you would get in there if you had to. Oh, Mike would be throwing some blows in there if you could. And then the one I got to tell on myself, we did. The one year I ran out and I still was holding my clipboard, which was an awful look. And guys were like, Mike, you can't be running out there holding your clipboard in the left hand. And so it's just, yeah, so at the end of the day. But, again, there's usually a lot more jawing and that type of stuff and guys acting like they're going to do things. But who knows? Well, we got All-Star Weekend coming up. You guys get a little bit of a break and you guys are sitting right now currently at the thick spot right behind my Lakers. Thought I'd get that in there. But how would you assess the squad so far this year, man? And kind of just the temperature of of the team and getting ready for the rest of the home stretch here? Yeah, it's been up and down. I think, you know, we started off kind of hovering right around 500 and then went on a five game win streak and then lost five games here recently before winning, I think, four in a row right after that. So it's been up and down for sure. Been relatively healthy, which has been good. I think the biggest thing for us, the biggest difference this year was Nikhil Alexander Walker. He went down to Atlanta, signed down there as a free agent. And, you know, just because we're up against the cap and money wise and all that really couldn't add a whole lot and was relying on some young kids. And so our bench last year, I think we were fourth in the NBA in scoring. And this year at one point we were right around 26 or 27th. Had a nice pickup with the IO, just came over from Chicago. He had 20 plus points last night. So up and down. I think the biggest thing is trying to secure and make sure that our bench is solid, because last year we go to a bench of basically with Nikhil Alexander Walker, Dante DiVincenzo, obviously former Nick. and Nas Reed, sixth man of the year. You didn't lose a whole lot. And so this year, Bench had struggled a little bit with Dante now starting and still just relying kind of on Nas. So hopefully we get that shored up with the addition of Io, get him incorporated and everything. Got a few days, almost a week. So some practices to get him caught up as far as what we're trying to do offensively and like that. So been up and down, but the West is, I tell you, it's right there. I think we were fourth. we were half a game behind uh san antonio when we played them recently they beat us and then next thing you know we were seventh so i mean it's like every day you either wake up we're either looking at fourth or seventh or eighth you know it really makes such a interesting debate amongst my friends because we always kind of debate the the play in turn of it right because on one level in the east you know it is exciting it spices things up in the east let's just say that you're taking some teams that maybe don't necessarily belong in the playoffs and you're spicing up and Maybe they get hot at the right time. But then when you go to the West, making the eighth seed in the West before the play-in is a legitimate accomplishment. And I also think it's very scary for a one seed to play. If you, for some reason, and I don't think that would happen, but to have to face Minnesota as a seven or eight seed seems like a punishment for being a one or two seed in the West. Yeah, it's a great take by you. And the reason being is it's all matchups in the West. Like there's teams that, you know, we match up pretty well. Let's say Houston. Over the years, we've matched up well with Denver. But then there's certain teams that have our number like OKC, obviously, or whatnot. And so but to your point, Jerry, it's all about matchups, whether it's I mean, yeah, home court is obviously nice. You'd like to have home court. But the thing is, too, you start home court. You got the first two and you lose one of those first two. It's gone. And so sometimes coming in as a as a visitor, like we did last year in L.A., you steal game one. and you're like, oh, shoot, now we're playing with house money, you know, on game two or whatnot. But at the end of the day you absolutely right The West is crazy A lot of it has to do with matchups And the other thing is you see I think that regardless of sport health is such a big deal You know when you have guys that are that are healthy and that I mean you look at it I think no team been affected more by their star player Like you look at what Philadelphia has had to deal with Embiid and George, just those two guys being hurt and out. We look across over there. But yeah, it's a great take. I think the West playoffs one through eight is going to be very, very should be some exciting basketball. You talk about star player. You guys have one in Anthony Edwards. I feel like you and I have talked about him before. But what what is what is it about this kid that you get to see every day? What makes him so unique? I think the fact Matt that he I mean what you see is what you get he doesn't change for anybody he is a he's a great kid anymore basically he's a great guy uh you know his great personality teammates obviously love him he's he's a lot of fun he's not going to change for anybody there's nothing fake he's not worried about social medias he's not worried about the clicks whatever um he just is who he is and sometimes to a fault but uh I tell you what and I know you that probably gets overused, but he's about as real as it gets. Doesn't have a whole lot of, I would say, hobbies. Yeah, you see the stuff with the ping pong, that type of thing. But at the end of the day, he's a hooper. He is literally a throwback that just loves to compete. I think that's his one hobby is just competing, whatever it is. I mean, we'll be at the end of practice. Some young guys will start a one-on-one that we're trying, and he'll jump in. Some guys are doing a shooting competition. He'll jump in. He literally just loves to compete, loves to play. And I think the one thing that we talk about health, that availability, I think across all sports is a skill essentially now. And it's there. I think at one time we've been here, this is our fifth season and we were looking at it. We had played 320 some odd games and he was available for 310 of them. So he's there all the time. And he's one of those guys. And there's there's a few of them in the league where on any given night, he's going to do something that you either haven't seen before. you're just gonna go wow that was pretty you know especially at the level that matt you played at obviously professional levels where you see guys do things you're just like man so i was at um the nicks wolves game when you guys were in new york uh i was seated fortunately not that far from a rod on the sideline by your bench uh tough game nicks won that game but some of the crowd where i was sitting was kind of chirping and during the game and i just feel like listen there's some players maybe you can chirp and he's one you don't want to but there's like some like i'm like why on earth would you not that he needed to be woken up he was playing well but like why would you give him even one percent more of let me just break your hearts right now i was already telling people i didn't know to sit down and shut up and stop talking to ant during the game because we were close enough that he could hear and i don't want that dude having even one percent more fire in his heart uh jerry it just happened in toronto uh it was a one possession game he shoots an air ball and uh with about a minute and a half to go and they start jeering him or you know booing and this and that he gave it the old all right keep coming keep coming next possession honest to goodness next possession uh rj barrett comes down the floor he just strips him goes in and dunks puts us up one and then he starts doing the same thing but he's one of those guys it reminds me of uh what um People used to say, you know, Kobe, you know, we can talk about the 81, but he beat us one time in Toronto. Excuse me, in L.A. It was a, you know, he had a turnaround jumper last second shot. And Alvin Williams, who, you know, coached him 28 years ago, had a great comment. I said, hey, you know, we forced him into a tough shot. And very good point. He said, listen, everybody's tough shots, not the same. Meaning Kobe's got 3,000 times. And to that point, Ant's like that. Like all these guys, some guys aren't built for moments. They're not built for, you know, and then you look at the playoffs. And that's the thing. I think the biggest thing with with Anthony that Coach Finch always is on him about and that we have to fight and push is that, you know, he's ready for the playoffs right now. But you can't just breeze through 80 games and just kind of just play and compete and and just pick and shoot. Not that he picks and chooses, but, you know, he's going to get up for the Oklahoma cities and all this. But on any given night when we're playing teams that are struggling, just bringing it. And but, you know, the playoffs and you look the first playoff series we ever had with him in Memphis. I think he had 40 as a second year guy. So you're like, OK, these these moments are obviously not too big for him at all. And you know what else personally got me a little annoyed at him because he went into my turf for a second. He was good in hustle. He was like a good he had a good performance. He was good. He acted. He performed well. I'm like, God, now you're even like good at that. That like, come on, man. What happened to lanes? is he not supposed to go into that lane exactly good in the movie exactly coach you you've i mean it's it's pretty cool when you look at your career you've coached you mentioned kobe you want to get into that because i believe you were on the raptors uh coaching staff um when you went up against kobe in his 81 point game but i want to ask you this because there's so much there's so much like basketball players are fascinating to me because there's so much shit talking between guys now that have a microphone you know like kd is always chirping with guys online like it's just funny to me and a lot of it now has become is between these eras right you have the older guys who talk about the new era of basketball and saying they're soft and this and that and then you have the new guys that say well these old guys can't play in this era i mean you've coached in different eras you've been around the game a long time like what do you make of all that and what do you think the biggest difference is between you know 90s early 2000s to the game that we watch today okay good um i think the very first thing let's talk about the game itself the biggest difference to me is there's two things number one the three-point shot so when i first got in the league in the late 90s teams were taking 10 to 12 threes a game now on any given night I think the leading NBA team is at right around 40. And the fewest teams, we just played the Clippers, I think they're 27th in the league and they're taking 28. I think the Warriors took 55 the other night. I think I saw that. It's crazy. But you're right. And so the three-point shot has really changed the game. And the other thing that's changed is the positionless basketball, if you will. But anymore, there used to always be a four and a five. To go back to Jerry's Knicks, we had Charles Oakley in Toronto. But, you know, Oak was a is your prototypical four man. And then even you look at back in the days of the Spurs and there when they were rolling, they had Tim Duncan and David Robinson. Now it's kind of like there is no more four man. It's you know, it's the stretch fours and all this type of thing. I think it reminds me a little bit, man, I'm probably wrong, but like football to put it in your world a little bit is like, Remember when they just took everybody and they moved linebackers to defensive ends, free safeties. Everybody got faster, and it's just a faster game now. And the other thing is, too, because back in the 90s when we first started, or I first started, excuse me, there wasn't a whole lot of offense. I mean, playoff games, like if you can remember even the chase down block that Prince had against the Pacers or whatever, the score was like 84 to 82. and so those are some halftime scores now. So the league wanted more offense. The league wanted more action, and so they've changed the rules to really benefit the offense, but their three-point shot has really changed that. If you ask me, were guys tougher then? Yeah, I think it was just naturally so because, again, there wasn't the freedom of movement that they forced you to have now, but when you're talking Anthony Masons and Charles Oakleys and all those guys down at the four fives and setting screens. And it was like everybody was in the paint. Now no one's in the paint. It's all a game, it feels like. So those to me are the biggest differences. And comparing the eras, I think it'd be very, very difficult because just the way the games were played and they're totally different. It'd be like saying, okay, is Jim Brown the best running back or is, you know, whomever that's going now. So I think it's tough. I think basketball is obviously more fun to watch now, but you do miss some of those things now. just essentially feels like it's a three-point shooting contest and a free throw contest. I just miss Shaq on the block, dude. The game used to be an inside-out game. Now it's not even outside in. It's just all outside with a lot of guys moving. Shaq, we were in Phoenix, and this was late in his career. And my two favorite Shaq stories playing against him. He was posting up on the block in Phoenix right from our bench, and I'm screaming. It looked like he was by himself. And I'm like, get Shaq. And Chris Bosh, who's, you know, he leans out. He's like, I got him. I'm like, okay, see him. I mean, Shaq is just obviously a huge human being. And then we had, and rest in peace, God bless him. He's since passed. But we had a guy come over from Europe and playing with us. And Shaq called a play or Phil called a play and wanted something. And Shaq Nuts said, no, solo, solo, which means post up him. He catches on the block. He turns, he dunks, he runs back by our bench, and he's like, who the F is that? You know, just typical Shaq. And, I mean, you talk about a guy that you could do nothing with, and especially when early in his career is athletic and when he wanted to play. I mean, my goodness. Unreal. He has the most disrespectful dunk, I think, on Chris Dudley. Yeah. Throws him under the hoop. Like, all Dudley could do is just throw the ball at him. and even being a Knick fan, I was like, ah, I feel bad. That was just sad to watch. That was hard to watch. No. And, you know, you see these guys nowadays. I mean, you know, they're all huge. I mean, Wemby is, I guess, the one thing where, like, is big and he is. You're like, holy cow, but Shaq is the one human being. When you see Shaq, just, you know, the first time I ever saw Shaq in person, like, right there, you're like, my God. And then just see the way he moved and was athletic as he was. It was scary. But what was it like for you in, like, the first moment? is like okay i'm gonna get a look at wendy tonight like in person with an nba jersey on you gotta be like how the fuck is someone that tall shack physically you're right like strength but then he the guy just keeps going like it doesn't end it's crazy especially like when you see um and again you're used to these guys these seven footers but when your guy is seven six as long as he is and does the things and and i mean we all know that i mean he's going to be a problem for a long time in the West as he continues to get better and continues to fill out a little bit. And I mean, you just you can't do anything with it. I mean, I remember like on a smaller scale, obviously, but like you look at Durant, like when Durant first got in the league and the way he would shoot and and Dwayne Casey, who I worked with in Toronto, always had the best. He just said that the rim is always open to him, meaning so there is no tough shot for KD because you're not going to block his shot. He's 6'11". You know, he gets it. He shoots it. So but those guys, when they're that long, that big and that skilled and then and Wimby's pretty much all of those. I mean, I tell you, when we just beat them at our place, you know, our guys didn't. He just he just takes up the whole paint. You can't see. So they're not you know, you're like, go to the bucket. He's like, where do you want me to go? Down there. He just covers up everything. And it's kind of then you watch like, oh, yeah, I mean, it's just it's crazy. How do you with I mean, obviously, you got a long ways to go and stuff and you're probably going to be matched up against one of these guys. And SGA is another one who's I got a little bit of a throwback, I think, because of his mid range and the way he can play. But how do you how do you defend guys like that? Like like you just bodies at them or what do you do? Yeah, I think the probably the the one we've played the most and the one that we've probably thrown the most at defensively is Jokic. And you kind of can go one of two ways. and I think and he's proven to do both it's like how do you want to lose you know I mean if that makes sense like you sit there and so like all right right yeah you want to play him one-on-one make him shoot twos and make him you know try to make him shoot tough shots and not fouling or do you want to double him every time he touches it which when you do double him he's going to make the right play and then you're at the mercy of those guys making threes behind it or whatever so So you basically say, all right, so for bigs, it's kind of like, do you want to double him or let him go? With like an SGA, it's more so do you want to trap him, get it out of his hands? But also you try to get guys, we throw different looks at him. And that's why we had success the last couple of years because Anthony Edwards can guard him as well as anybody. Jay Daniels can guard him as well as anybody. Nikhil, who's his cousin, did a good job and competed against him. So we could throw different people in different bodies at him. But also it's just so much now is tendencies. And I think that's where analytics is really impacted. Obviously, the three point shot, the numbers. Yes. But the other thing that you can look at now analytically is guys always go back to what they're good at. Meaning if a guy wants to go left, that's where he's going to go. If a guy, you know, if a guy is going to cross over whatever their moves may be and you just try and just keep on showing personnel, like try to take this away and make them have to do something else that they may not. is not a strength of theirs or I mean they're all pretty much strengths but they're not as good at if you will so it's always trying to change it up the other thing I think Chris Paul was the other one that you know thinking back that you would have to change like if you just played the same coverage against Chris Paul for the whole game he's gonna he's gonna beat you so you'd have to switch things up whether it be coming out of timeouts all right we're gonna blitz them here we'll play drop we'll switch we'll early double just trying to keep them off balance especially the great ones that's what you kind of have to obviously when kobe had 81 none of it worked well what do you i mean you were what do you remember about that game i mean you were on the raptors staff yes i can say it now because it's been you know almost 20 years but uh and the reason i say that is deep down like and it was a regular season game i mean you're almost like the game starts it's kind of like uh remember rocky five when he was fighting the russian and everybody was hating on rocky and at the end everybody was a crowd turn yeah you're just you You were just a fan watching Kobe. So exactly. So it was in L.A. They obviously cheering. But by the like, when it got to 80, you were kind of like, oh, maybe he's going to get 100. It's kind of, you know, and I know I know Jalen Rose and those guys that were defending him and Mo Peet. They probably want to know part of it. But the game plan was kind of like what we talked about. What do you want to do? Do you want to make somebody else beat you? You know what? We're going to force it to be tough on Kobe. Make him score. Well, he did. I don't care if he scores 80. Make it tough. Well, OK. And you know what? I shouldn't say this because this is another bad reflection. Not only was I a part of when Kobe got 81, I was also on the bench with Sacramento when Klay got 37 in the third on like seven dribbles. So thank God. You don't want to hire me as your damn guru. Yeah, but you're not the defensive guru. No, and damn sure. You're just bringing good offense out for both sides. You're just elevating the offense on both sides. yeah that game i my former co-star and good buddy kevin connelly on entourage i'll never forget that day he got invited for like hey you got courtside at the lakers like oh are they playing the raptors he passed on the game and went to go see some three-hour movie at the beverly theater or something and he literally skipped courtsides for the kobe 81 and he's a massive laker guy I don't think I could ever live that down if I knew I could have been in the building for that well and it's going to live forever too because I think on the one of the Kobe statues outside of uh you know crypto whatever they've got the they got the score sheet the literally the score sheet on the side of the uh the statue there I mean he just he's my all-time favorite athlete I got his jersey right here he signed for me rest in peace man he's he's my favorite athlete of all time I I mean, just, Scott, what a treat to be able to watch him put up 80 on your team, though. You know what's funny, Matt? You're absolutely right. And what you love about Kobe, I mean, there's many things, but Kobe wasn't imposingly big. You know what I mean? It's not like, I mean, Shaq, and not take anything away from those guys. I mean, Shaq is 7' whatever. LeBron is literally 6'8". When he was in his prime, he was 260. So those guys, and again, they're very, very skilled. But Kobe, you just look and Kobe was like a normal dude, but just unreal, unbelievable competitor. And, you know, just one of those guys that like you talk about, and there's very few of them that have it. I do believe Anthony's one of those guys and there's a couple of them. But at any given moment, they're going to they can take over a game. They're going to make a shot. You know, big moments and all this year. You're never too far ahead against them. And it's it's he was impressive. Where do you I don't want to get into lists because you're coaching all this stuff, but where do you rank him all time as far as because because I put him to behind MJ. People have LeBron, all that. Is he up there for you? You've seen a lot of great players. Yeah, Kobe. Yeah, I mean, Kobe's Kobe would be two or three. I mean, Michael, I mean, because I was young, would be one for me. And I think the reason why not to get into it a whole lot, but I think Michael, too, is just the greatest competitor we've that's ever been around. and just, you know, in his record of finals, this and that. But and then Kobe and LeBron to me are two and three. And I mean, yeah. And again, I think a lot of it is just like the way Kobe was. Like, you know, I think nowadays, I think we're all throwbacks a little bit in the sense that he didn't he was never buddies with guys. You know what I'm saying? He wasn't worried about being buddies or friends. I love that about him. Yeah. Like the Olympic Games when he ran through his teammate Gasol. That gave me chills in the doc. like pat riley back in the day like you would get fined if you were on the knicks team and help another opposing player up you know like that type of stuff or dapping guys up before the game and still smiling and you know and i understand it a little bit more but just i mean that's the ultimate competitor and and uh and the work ethic obviously that you know is unprecedented if you will is uh chris bosh talks about that he said that um he was on that first olympic team and you know they talk about kobe obviously coming back and he's already worked out twice but kevin durant said the one thing and jay triano was a former head coach of the raptors was an assistant with them and he said he'll never forget they went on a they were having a night shooting in vegas and two guys were there uh kd and kobe were on the bus and kd was shooting at one end and kobe at the other and i think kd to that point was like i looked down and i saw the work that he was putting in and i was just you know and kd was still doing extra work like getting his shots and all this but watch the workout and the effort and the things that kobe was doing and kind of changed his whole mindset of this explains a lot so pretty cool so really quick when you talking about oakley on the raptors was that all was that vince carter team that was right so you were you were there during that time period because those are also now they have a podcast cousins for lack of a better word because that's they're on our very own amp network that we're a part of yeah that must have been a seeing those two guys at the same time coming in being that young you almost wish those are two guys you wish could have stayed together i don't know if it would have worked because they were both big stars in their own right but that was always a what if for me like what if vincent tmack found a way to like play together for 10 years i'd probably still be in toronto jerry well i feel like tmack is like one of the biggest what ifs because he's one of the greatest skilled players we've ever seen in the history of the game absolutely he's another one of those guys six eight six nine skilled to handle could defend you know do a lot of a lot of things but um yeah so my first uh i'm in toronto i'm an intern 28 years ago vince's rookie year and uh we trade uh marcus canby for oak and um oak is coming to toronto of all places you know obviously the last place we wanted to be and so our heads up to time butch carter's like hey oak's pulling up um you know and this was a lockout too so it was the middle of winter i can remember in toronto so there's snow there's this and i have to go down to meet him and oak gets out he's got a full length fur on he's got his fedora on and i'm like hi mr oakley we're here you know pissed off because he's in toronto but um oak was unbelievable obviously for that team and changing the culture there but uh oak had some great one-liners man and just some great things like i remember we were talking the team and so he was like uh you know t-mac and vince you guys are the lead singers but you know we're the band and all that type of thing but at the end of the day you still got to feed us help us do this do that and um oak was great when i talk about culture so i'll give you i mean there's a thousand of them but so oak said this was before headphones nowadays you know and everybody on their phone so the music was in the locker room and so oak had a rule no no music 45 minutes before the game and so oak was one of those guys that would shoot last on the floor. Then he'd come back in. And 45 minutes, he walks in, comes back in from the floor, it's down to 44, music's still on. He goes over and unplugs it, turns it off. Said, I'm just telling y'all right now, 45 minutes, shut the music off, I'm not going to say it again. So I don't know if it, maybe not the next home game, but maybe a week later he comes in, the music is still on. He goes over, he flips the whole old tuner amplifier out of the wall throws it down doesn't say a word and then just goes and sits down and guess what no more music but i'm one of those guys that i mean he was just yeah you weren't messing with him though no yeah just no nonsense but like what i love about oak i mean many things and it's like like things that you don't hear about like um so i'll i remember the uh equipment guy the ball boy what the lead uh you know clubhouse guy comes in and he asked he asked me he says hey do you have I have a hundred dollar bill. Do you have five twenties? And I was like, I don't, whatever. So he asked Oak and then Oak was like, well, what's it for? And he said, well, I want to pay the, um, you know, all the help, like the other ball boys and all that, just tip them. And again, this was 25 years ago. So 20 bucks for that, maybe whatever. But, and I'll never forget Oak was like, what's it for? And he's like, it's for the ball boys. And it goes, well here. And he peeled off $400 bills says here, give each guy a hundred bucks, but don't tell him it's for me. and then so and then the other thing oak was great about we got to the playoffs and he just said all right listen here's what we're doing playoff share wise we're going to take care of all these guys from the interns this and that and as you can know matt when you're talking about splitting that stuff up when you got guys like that always looking out for other people yes it's really cool and so he oak is uh an all-time favorite for sure that's awesome you so when vince carter you coached Vince's rookie year, was that the same year he did the dunk contest, the famous dunk contest of the first couple of years? Yeah. So that's great. The second it was the second year. And you guys remember the dunk he did when he when he caught himself? Yeah, he hung on. Yeah. Mind blowing in the moment. Never saw anything like that in the moment. So this is I still believe this is where this came from, because, oh, to your point, like practices with T-Mac and Vince. so butch carter who i i've known forever loved dearly um these guys it's just like um they're run up and down all they're trying to do is dunk everything butch puts in a no dunking rule in practice because that's all they were trying to do so he's like all right no more dunking well then they get vince would get breakaway and he would go and what he would do is he would put his whole arm in and then he would let go and then pull his arm out not a dunk wow yeah so then And that's why he would that's why he kind of came into he's like, you know what? I can do this. I'll just hang on the rim. And but Mugsy Bogues was the greatest hype man ever. And he was on that team and he was trying to tell those guys what to do. And it was like really like watching a video game saying, all right, do this. Try that. Don't do this. And Vince to this day is still. I mean, some he's the best dunker there is. He's the greatest dunker of all time. It's not even close. No, it's not close. And what was awesome, too, is because Oak loved to throw lobs. And and Oak would lob sometimes to get away from him. But those would be the best dunks because he would literally throw one to the corner of the backboard and Vince would jump, reach back, catch it. Dunk. I mean, unbelievable. Yeah, I got it. Yeah. Go ahead. No, go ahead. You should run the first play of every game for Charles Oakley. All right. And Butch Carter would run it. And sometimes he'd make it. It was always a jump shot. And we had one assistant coach go, why do we always run the first play for Oak? Because, you know, we could be nothing, nothing. And I'll never forget. And, you know, we're on air. But he was like, let me tell you something. I don't give it if he catches it and punts it into the upper deck because he's going to get every rebound. He's going to set every screen. He's going to guard every single action. And so and that's all Oak wanted. Give me one play. He just wanted one play. So you just got it out the way at the beginning. Yes. And then we would make him the passer and he just loved to throw lobs and dunks to T-Mac and Vince and all them. And it was it was it was a fun but short lived two years with those two guys for sure. Well, that's what I was going to say, Matt. It's probably like having a receiver like Julio Jones or Larry, just a guy you can't overthrow. Like no matter where you put this thing, I just going to get it. I just saw Larry who just got in the Hall of Fame. I just saw him at the Super Bowl and we were just catching up. And I always tell the story like there were a couple of times when I was in Arizona and he was one of them. He's a perfect example. He's like, Matt, just throw it. Just throw it up and I will go get it because he was so good. And he and Larry's six for life. But he was so big. His body control. Calvin Johnson is probably the great. Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson are probably two that were like, you just throw within 10 yards. And, you know, it didn't matter how many guys were around them. But coach, there's no doubt in my mind that you're going to be a head coach in the NBA soon. And you you interviewed in the last couple of years and all of that stuff. I just be curious of what you've learned about maybe yourself as a coach and what you've learned about that process, because I think I mean, it's right around the corner. It's going to happen. No, I appreciate that. But I think the biggest thing, I think I've had four or five interviews for head coaching jobs now. Probably the one that was the most involved was the Knicks. And I think what you learn throughout all this time in the NBA is I used to think it was about X's and O's. How can I, can we get this guy a shot? How can we get this guy a bucket? And then you think, okay, how can we mess up that end of game as far as defensively different types of things? And it really is about being a leader as far as, you know, of and getting guys to play. Not only that, but then inhaling the locker room. So it's not X's and O's. It's more about personalities. And I think when you look back at the guys that have done it at a high, high level, and yes, they've had very, very good players, but like the Phil Jacksons and those type of guys that that have. And even Steve Kerr, you know, Steve came right out of the the TV booth and, you know, and he had the skill with the players that he had. But just it's more about managing egos, getting guys to play and different than football, because football, I think, you know, 16, 17 regular season games. If you lose one football game, that's a five game losing streak in the NBA. So so guys are usually, I would assume, ready to go, ready to play. Same thing in college now. It's almost like every game is a playoff game. But and that's what we fight even now, like how in NBA basketball, when you know that you're going to be a playoff team, as you know, we assume that we would be. But how do you get guys to play for 82 straight games and play hard to compete? And then the other thing that you find as a head coach and the way that everything is now, it's probably a lot like college as well. But it's just you're almost like a CEO of all of it. And you're just so much of it is managing people and guys have lives outside of basketball. And that affects them and just everything there and keeping guys rested, keeping guys healthy. So there's so much more when I was naive enough to think that, oh, it's just X's and O's. You know, I'm just going to play call or try to outmaneuver people from that side of the ball. And that's and that's not it. So I think a lot of it is that and combinations is the biggest thing. Combinations of players on the floor, like rotations and how do you get guys to work together? And I think that that's really helped me in Minnesota because, you know, the first year we had Carl Anthony Towns and and then Nas Reed. You know, and then the next year we had Rudy, who was, you know, more of a low block pick and roll guy with Carl. And then all of a sudden you add Julius Randle. So how do you make all these different people and players mesh together with their talents and, you know, with the group that you have and keep everybody? I'll never say happy because no one's ever fully happy. But how do you keep them engaged and playing hard? So it's been a great process. Hopefully, like you say, one of these, you know, you break through. Like I told Joe Ingles, who's one of my favorite people. if I sound like Australia, I can get on the podium. I just can't get the gold medal, right? No, you're going to get that opportunity, man. There's no doubt. Engels is hilarious, man. Oh, he's great. Yeah, I was like, what must have been going through your mind? I still, like I said, I've been watching basketball since 19. The Trent Tucker game was like my first game I watched where I kind of knew what was going on. I was almost a Bulls fan because I'm like looking at Jordan going, this guy's great, but I should root for the Knicks because I'm from New York. And then Trent Tucker hits that shot. And I'm like, I'm a Knicks fan. But I've never seen the the in the finish injury situation like I've never seen a coach get hurt during a game at such an important, crucial time in the season. Yes. I mean, I'm sure I don't think you've probably seen that in all your coaching time. So you're what goes through your head when that happens? No, the first thing is funny. Like it happened. Not funny, obviously. No, but it's crazy. He goes down and we're like, oh, crap, is he all right? And then you're worried about Mike Conley who ran him his heel playoff game. And then you're like, all right. And the next thing you know, he's like – he feels down. I'll never forget because he said he knew he did something because when he put his hand on his knee where he thought his kneecap should be, it was gone. It wasn't even like, oh, I sprained my knee. Yeah, he whipped his patella. I think his kneecap had floated all the – and so – and then you're like, obviously, I mean, not only is he my boss, but he's a good friend of mine. And then you're worried about – the next thing you know, he's leaving like, okay. And then people are like, oh, shit. I got a spotlight. Yeah. And so but it was crazy. I think, in all honesty, it worked out well because that was the closeout game against Phoenix. Right. And so then we had about four or five days before we went and played Denver. I think it would have been more difficult if if that would have been, let's say, game two or three in the middle of that. And then the games are coming that much quicker. So we had a chance to to catch our breath, if you will. And I had a chance to catch my breath and really say, OK, this is what, you know, this is kind of what this is and that type of thing. So it was very, very strange. And yeah, not that. Wasn't he sitting? He was sitting. Was he sitting second row on like a high chair or something? I remember watching. Yeah, he was sitting. He's sitting second row and had his leg out. And then I always joke with him like if he was saying I just stand closer to midcourt. I tell him it couldn't get to you. Act like I hear him. But it was no, it was it was great. It was kind of like head coaching with training wheels, you know, because he was great. He said, I don't want it to be clunky. So coach the game like you're the head coach. If there's something I see or want or whatever, then, you know, I will make sure that you get that in. So he was still very, very involved, obviously. And but it was just very, very strange. And with the and like he said, he's like, what more do I got to do to get you a head job? My God. i faked an injury for you i faked it my knee is fine this was all for you i'll tell you what he's he's gonna be sad when you leave him though that's for sure at one point he's gonna be he'll be sad but i think yeah but he but uh you know he's he's always giving me shit because he's like you know my god i mean there's always something he's like mike that you know i guess overbearing probably a little bit too much at times, but that's all right. It's all good. You know, cause we're all close. I told Jerry, just as I've gotten to know you guys over the last couple of years with football and, you know, just seeing you guys on the road, I was like, man, Micah and Finch, you're awesome, man. Just two great dudes, but two great coaches. Coach, we're going to wrap, man. We appreciate you. I know you're mid season taking the time. Good luck to good luck to your squad the rest of the year. And I know, I know we gained a fan of the T-Wolves with Jerry here even though he's a diehard Knicks fan no no that's my west coast team yeah 80 games a year 80 games a year cheer for the Timberwolves the two we play New York you cheer for the listen I I could have told you you're not going to be able to keep DiVincenzo on the bench he always ends up a starter that's my scouting report from the and I love Randall like Randall came to the Knicks at a time where no one wanted to come to New York and he dragged him to a four seed in his first year with not the most skilled team so i love those dudes what they did for this so i root hard for them and also i will say that season with the injury like the the the most impressed i think i've been in the last 10 years when i've seen a team lock in was i think one of the games versus the nuggets when i felt like the nuggets couldn't even get the ball across half court against you it was like an ass kicking that i have not seen so like from that moment i'm like this team is must watch because if they go to that level they they could do anything so i've always enjoyed watching the wolves and um i'm going to continue as literally my six-year-old son i hear is out there shooting and he's still trying to understand why the knicks traded yabba seldy for alvarado i have a basketball nerd coach i got a basketball nerd i love it i just wish that last year we could have got the matchup for you jerry of new york and minnesota in the finals instead of indiana OKC you'd have been you know you wouldn't have been torn but it would be he would have been he would have been courtside at the garden that's for sure Jerry's got those courtside seats I will I will always have tons of love every Knicks fan I think has massive love and respect for D. Vincenzo and Randall massive like that goes on for and and they've showed up in Minnesota too those guys have been great oh they've been they've been phenomenal yeah for sure matt buddy i gotta thank you for that one you know how great is he man he's awesome and you know how much i love talking hoops because now i'll be fully locked in and i still can't believe you got a current active coach who took a break to talk to us it's basketball season man we just we just transitioned here at throwbacks from football to hoops you know we talked a lot of dunk contests so we're on the way out here but the three-point contest is still a lot of fun still gives us a lot of joy i'm looking here at the contestants and the odds should we make some some picks here do you need the names or you got them in front of you i got the names you just tell me the odds i mean i'm already going with my boy so we got con knipple and damian lillard as of right now plus 400 jamal murray plus 450 norman powell plus 500 donovan mitchell plus 600 tyrese Maxey plus 650 Devin Booker plus 750 and Bobby Portis folks he's been all over the place I've seen plus 850 I've seen plus 1700 so he is the clear long shot if you are venturing a bet who you betting on well I'm looking right now Bobby Portis is hitting 46 percent from three this year I mean doesn't take a whole lot of them but he's hitting threes he's hitting threes I mean I'm probably listen i'm not gonna over what's uh con canibbles at what plus 400 plus 400 that's the favorite the donovan mitchell at plus 600 650 is pretty enticing to me because he's i'm gonna i'm just going i'm not gonna overthink it i'm gonna go with great white hype con canibble at plus 400 to win this as a rookie and to set the stage for years to come i do think it could be his time i I mean, he's shooting 43%. He's a dog. I mean, Luke Kennard, my Laker now, is at almost 50% from three, dude. Fuck. Give it time. That's like me on a Tuesday night at the Bay Club. You know, as much as I would love to sprinkle some dough on Devin Booker plus 750, and maybe he could win it. He's just a scorer. I don't know. Not just. I mean, he's a great scorer. I guess for my money, I'd go Jamal Murray plus 450. Get a little better odds. He's like right outside the top. He's hitting 43%. I think I'd go Jamal Murray if he catches fire. All right, so I got Conk Nipple plus 400. I got Jamal Murray. Put that bet in for me, buddy. And we'll get back to you on the dunk contest. Matt loves Jackson Hayes in the dunk contest. I mean, what are we doing here, dude? What are we doing? Protest the dunk contest until we get our stars back in it. Hey, I know what we're doing. We're taking a week off, and we're coming right back to you. So we will see you guys next week. Love you, football.