Meredith Marks & Joey Zauzig: Pontificating & Integrity

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Lock in your holiday with a £75 per person deposit, book in store over the phone or online at Virgin Atlantic holidays. I wrapped up in Seattle on Sunday night and we've got a couple more weeks to go where you know it's in and out because I've got Sundance and some other things going on. So I have a little time off, I come back, then a little time off, and we do the last... I do have to highly recommend the Naughty and Ice Tour. Annie and I went last time you were here in town. We had so much fun. It was so cute. You had Brooks and Chloe on stage dancing with you the whole time. It was so cute. We had the best time. Thank you. I'm so glad. We have the best time. I have the best time. I mean, it's just fun. It's like throwing a party and everyone's having a great time. For the people that don't know, you are a jewelry entrepreneur, turned caviar entrepreneur, turned housewife, turned DJ. Correct. Now, when you first got your first DJ gig, well, first of all, how did that happen? So I was asked last June to DJ for Pride. And I thought it would be like a fun kind of one and done, but it just kind of spiraled from there. I had the best time. Everyone had the best time. It was incredible. And then we started getting requests and I was like, well, yes, let's do it. And so, you know, I just keep plowing forward. And then it turned into a tour, an actual tour. And I show that you're going to be in Dallas on January 29th, Denver on the 30th, Austin, Texas on the 31st, February 18th, you're in Atlanta, February 19th, you're in Charleston, February 20th, you're in Ashbury Park, New Jersey. I mean, this is really grown. It's amazing. I believe we're sold out everywhere except for Dallas and Charleston. So anyone in Dallas and Charleston who's listening, please buy tickets. I love it. Where do people go to buy tickets? They can go on my Instagram. There's a link where they can get it or they honestly can just even Google it, but it's through Outlaw Music Festival. They put the tour together, so it's on their site as well. And is this lucrative? I mean, you know, it's worth my time. It is definitely worth my time and I'm having an incredible time. So now we have dates through February. Are you going to be adding more dates this year? Not until probably like I have some festivals coming up. I have Bottle Rock coming up in May and also Mighty Hoopla coming up in May. That's our major. Yeah, let's talk about it. Really major. This is a real thing. No, Bottle Rock Music Festival is huge and you're headlining with Ludacris, that's with Lord, with Foo Fighters, the Backstreet Boys. I mean, this is like, I mean, it's crazy. It's actually insane. I mean, it's almost as insane as like if you had told me I was doing this 20 years ago, it would have been just as insane as if you had told me I would ever live in Utah. Like my life has been a million and one twists and turns that I never expected. And this one's a good one. And so do you just close your eyes and jump and be like, okay, this is an opp... You obviously don't talk yourself out of opportunities. You just...what? I seize everything. It's the nature of who I am. I'm a very restless human being. I can't sit still. I mean, I can barely stand one city for more than like a week or two. I like to be creating and building and doing things. And so it's...my biggest difficulty is saying no to things because I like to do things. I like to be around people and I'm just...I'm very active and involved. So you're kind of like this nomad, right? You're always traveling. You haven't really settled anywhere. So you do live in Salt Lake City, certain many months out of the year. You live in New York, certain many months out of the year. If you were to settle, which I don't see you doing, is there a particular city where you would see yourself like, oh, Seth and I would buy a house here maybe? Yeah, there's a ton of places we would buy homes, but settle is another story. Okay. I think about this every day because I would like sometimes to be a little more chill than I am. Yes. But it's just not on the cards for me right now. What's your happy place? Where is your happy place? Probably New York. Because your kids are there? Yeah, but the thing is my kids also really love LA and they're talking about spending more time here. So now I'm talking about spending more time here. Basically, I chase my children. Right. No, I understand that. I get it. You have a very, we talked about this, you have not only a very lovely family, but they're gorgeous. Those kids are gorgeous. You and Seth make good looking kids. Thank you. Thank you. And is Seth still in Ohio? No, he actually, the incredible thing that happened for us over the last year is he's working fully remote for the first time. So we are together the large majority of the time. I mean, obviously when I'm going to three different cities in three days, he's not coming to every city because it's too much, but he'll come to one or two of them and work in between. I mean, he's always working. Where's your home base right now? Is it New York? Kind of. Kind of. It has been New York. We actually just gave up our apartment in New York until the spring because we're debating if we want to move uptown or we want to make a couple changes. So in theory, it's usually New York until right about now and then it's Utah from here until like mid-May to June somewhere in there. Your flagship store is in Salt Lake City, correct? In Park City. Park City. So you have obviously people that are running that store. Yes. So we actually have just made quite a few changes. Last year I took the other side of my store. We had another boutique in there. I took over their space because I thought we would add a caviar lounge into the space. But because everything on Main Street or at least the building we're in is very old, landmarked, landlocked with all the utilities coming in through the year. It was extraordinarily difficult to put food and beverage in the space. I see. So we now have found another space that's triple the size down the street, which is good because it was very tight anyway. And we're going to put the lounge down there and up in my space. I condensed into just a small jewelry store, which is really what I wanted to begin with. I didn't want to be running a full crazy boutique that all started ahead of operating partner that, you know, fell out during COVID. And so I'm pairing it back to what I really want, which is just the jewelry store and we have an art gallery in there operating. So it's way easier on me now, like a million times easier on me. I'm really happy about that. And then we'll have the lounge down the street and like the merch and stuff like that will be at the lounge. All right. So one of the reasons why I wanted to kind of set up all your businesses, right? And I wanted people to understand I am starting to question why you continue doing Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Now, what season are you on now? Is it six, seven? Six is airing right now. It's reunion tonight. And you've done, second part of the reunion is tonight. I saw the first part. You know, this was not a great season for you and it's not necessarily your behavior. It's the girls coming for you repeatedly. And I just, you know, I was thinking about this, like, why is she still doing this? She has her jewelry business, her caviar business. She has the DJ business. But I understand that this platform is important to promote all of those businesses and it's a tradeoff. And I just thought to myself, well, Jeff, why are you doing this? You know, and it is true. It's, you know, it's the, it's the additional paycheck, which is nice. But it's also the platform to promote our businesses. But there is quite a tradeoff. And the way those girls have, I mean, come for you this season is so uncomfortable. And I don't know how you keep your composure because, I mean, you really, really control yourself. I mean, the way they just repeatedly come at you and the way you handle yourself is, I have an enormous amount of respect because I don't think I'd have the self-control not to lose my shit. Well, thank you for recognizing that because what they try to make me look like is that I'm this very highly reactive person who's, you know, just losing their mind over every little thing. And the reality of it is they are poking and prodding relentlessly, trying so hard to get that reaction. And that's why I don't think I gave much of a reaction to them this, you know, at the end of the season. Very little, which frustrated them. Exactly. It's like they want their supply. They feed off that. It's really very sick. And I'm like, you're not winning this time. I see you the same way that when I saw what they were trying to do with me and Lisa, that's why they can't break us now. Once I'm aware of what you're doing, you're never going to win. I thought it was very telling in the finale throughout the play. They're all drinking glasses of wine. At the end, Heather is slurring with her glass of wine, accusing you of having a drinking problem. And you're just standing there like, I'm OK. What are you guys talking about? And then Whitney just came off BravoCon where she embarrassed herself, got way too drunk, had to apologize to Andy. But then they're pointing fingers at you saying that you have some sort of drinking problem, which that became the whole theme of the season. I just don't know how they get away with slandering people, defaming people. See, the difference with a show like me, mine, is that I'm in control, right? So if somebody comes after me, slanders me, defames me, I'll remove them. But you don't have the power to do that. No, I don't have the power to do that. And, you know, I think that a lot of what goes on is kind of insane. I mean, Joey knows he's out with me. He's finishing my drinks. I'm not a big drinker. He's finishing everyone else's drinks too, man. It's not just you. We have fun together though. Mary, that takes care of me. We go out, but it is true. But then it's like, even at the reunion, Whitney like brushes off the fact that she also was so drunk and made it full of herself. It's like, yeah, for four days in a row at a time, she was fall down drunk, but she wants to talk about me. And then I just someone sent me a video yesterday from TikTok, I guess on Sunday, like in the middle of the day, she did some meet and greet and she's got the microphone in one hand and clutching her glass of wine in the other and is pontificating that I had all these lawyers shutting down some video that exists. Well, let me be clear. I had zero lawyers involved in that situation, zero. I did not ever see a video. If there is one, I am unaware of it. And there is no video. I can tell you with 100% certainty, there is no video of me pouring wine or pulling hair or doing anything of that sort because it didn't happen. Are you talking about the plane? Yes. I mean, she's clutching her wine, pontificating about legal things that she doesn't know. What is pontificating? Like pondering and telling her... Pontificating. Got it. Just making sure. Just watching the wine glasses for the audience. For the audience. And I'm like, okay. You know what? Whitney's a pontificator. Yeah, no, she's just... She's a pontificator. Well, that's kind. I would just say liar, but okay. Well, she's a liar. Right. I always have your back, so, Mary. And let's not forget Heather threw up her martini in the sprinter last season or whatever. Look, I could go through all of it. The day where Whitney's pointing at me screaming alcoholic pill popper, I was drinking tea. Okay. We see them all pull up. This is 10 in the morning. They're taking a flask of liquor out at 10 a.m. And I saw Whitney drink at least seven glasses of wine before she grabbed the bottle and brought it to her seat. And I'm stone cold sober drinking tea. Do you get worried? You and Lisa... Well, first of all, Lisa is a very easy target because she reacts. Yes. Which she hasn't learned her lesson. I love Lisa. She's been on the show. I've hung out with her socially. I consider her a friend. She makes it very easy for them. Yes. However, I think that she was very calm at reunion for Lisa. I know the first episode doesn't let me... You'll see. Wait for that talk. She really did. She did do a pretty good job keeping her cool. And you'll see. Like, they don't like it. Not an episode one. Episode one was... That was definitely... Very hard to watch. It was just an hour of screaming. And then I get worried about these franchises. I'm very invested in all of these, but I get worried when the girls really... When they divide into teams and they really start their behavior, it becomes... It's almost like you can't walk back from it, right? There's so much damage. And I'm thinking, where are we going to go from here? Because I love the cast. But when the cast doesn't get along ever, you have to make changes. And I also can... I don't know about you, but I worry about the people with nothing to lose. And the second that somebody's husband loses their job or their business goes under, or all of a sudden this paycheck becomes vital to their survival. That's so true. And then at that point, they're now going to do whatever they can do to stay on that show. And Brittany is extremely thirsty. I've been very forthright with how I feel about her. I do not respect the decisions that she's made in her life. I have zero respect for her. I think she's very thirsty. And I frankly think she's an easy target. And I think it's funny when people go after her, because in my opinion, she deserves it. But I was so upset for you, and I mentioned this to Lisa. I was so upset for you on that ship when she brought up these nasty, unfounded, unsubstantiated gossip about your husband. And when you put that out there, it all of a sudden, it puts you and your husband and your entire family on the defense. Because it doesn't matter what you say now. There's a certain percentage of the audience that is going to believe her bullshit. Of course. Of course. I mean, we see it all the time. You'll see people commenting on social media, because some random TikTok that clearly she has nothing better to do because it was like after five minutes of gossip at the end of some thing, she's watching this whole TikTok to get through nonsensical gossip. I couldn't even find the TikTok. That's how obscure it was. And it was finally sent to me. And literally the day that it aired, I said, oh, I'm going to pull it up. And I did. And it had 25 likes. It was very obscure. She worked hard. She probably planted it herself. I have no idea. I don't really care about that one way or the other. If that's how you want to spend your time, that's on you. She has to secure her position, Meredith. Yeah, but... So it's very important that she continues on that show, right? So she has to secure her position. What really bothered me is that regardless of where you were at that time with the cast members, any one of them would have killed her. Angie Kay would have thrown her overboard if she had said something about her husband. I felt like no one had your back. That's correct. And I think if any one of those girls were in that position, they would have killed her. Yes. And so I said to Shane, I said, you know, if you got on that plane and if I had gone through that and the person in front of me who had just come from me and my family, you could be damn sure I would talk about shit for eight hours. For eight hours straight. 100%. Well, first of all, let's clarify it. The flight was five hours long. It was from Barbados to New York. So when they're like, oh, she was going on for two hours, for four hours, for six hours. Well, we weren't even on the plane for six hours. Let's start there. You know, it's like one thing after another. And there were other factors. I was not just upset about the Brittany thing. There were some other things that went on that I was also agitated about. So I did vent to Lisa for a little bit at the beginning, a little bit at the end. Justified to do so. Absolutely. I 100% did. And the things I was saying, I had said to Brittany's face, so I don't know why she would be so devastated all of a sudden, like I've said them to her face. Why did she care that I was saying them to Lisa? And why are we making up these other things that I did rather than just telling the truth? It's maybe because she doesn't want the whole world to know what I really said about her. So the way to show that was, oh, let's make it look like Meredith did these crazy things so the audience can understand how crazy it really was. But it wasn't. From what I know of you, you're not a violent person. You're not kicking someone's seat. You're not pouring drinks. I kind of springed out, too. You're not pouring drinks on someone's head. And by the way, if this behavior was as outrageous as what these girls are stating, why did nobody pick up a camera and video it? Exactly. Better yet, why didn't any of these women do something about it? Say, oh my gosh, Meredith, stop it or Brittany, let me switch seats with you or anything about it. And now all of a sudden the story is changing again because this came up. It makes them look really bad. It makes my producers look really bad. Anyone who was on that plane who is confirming what Brittany is saying and did nothing about it, that is on them, not on me. And now that that is what's coming up. Now it's suddenly, oh, it was only during the descent and everyone was buckled in. Okay, Brittany, if everyone was buckled in and it was only during the descent, how was I kicking your seat when I couldn't reach your seat from where I was sitting and had a sprained toe? How was I dumping wine on your head and pulling your hair? I wasn't behind her. I was the next seat over. Well, I believe. So nothing adds up here. It's a lot of lies. It's very frustrating. I've also spent a lot of time with you. We've had a lot of, we've gone out a lot. We've done, like I've, we've talked about show stuff. I've seen you get, you know, talking talk, but you don't get out of control ever. You don't kick, you don't scream, you don't yell. You're always getting a little revved. An expressive, yes. You can get expressive and riled up, but you're not kicking anyone's seat. You're not screaming and yelling. You're not pouring wine on anyone. And also going back to like, I spent a lot of time with you and Seth too. It's like, if the fact that none of those girls had your back and have spent time with both of you and no one wants to speak up to talk about your guys' relationship and how great, like that for me was the issue. I'm like, this is all being planted because Brittany needs a secure spot, like Jeff said. And I know that. So watching it and knowing you so well, I'm like, it's all coming from that. And that's why Brittany went along with this, but it's more the disappointment than the other girls. And look, the whole thing was Seth that did upset me because I was just like, why are you bringing up this obscure thing? To just defame my husband who has done nothing but show up and stand up and support this show and everything else. But above and beyond that, there were other issues, some of which will come out, I believe tonight at reunion. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm pretty sure some of it comes out. There are other aspects that I were briefly touched on that I don't think will come out. We'll see. But there were, there were some other factors that went into it. Where do you go from here with your cast? I mean, you know, obviously Real House of the Salt Lake City will get picked up. I mean, it has to. And when they start, you know, when, when you get your offer to come back, I mean, what goes through your head? I mean, you, it's, it's, it's unsafe for you at this point. Yeah. Um, it's complicated because, you know, it's like we started, you started the whole show basically with like, why, why would you go back? And it's hard for me because the last thing I want to ever happen is somebody to win because they bullied me out. And so that's a problem for me, you know, that's letting them win. That's what they want. They want to isolate me and isolate Lisa so that they can take each of us down. They don't like us. That's it. I mean, it's just that simple. They either don't like me or they don't like Lisa or they just don't like the two of us, but either way, we're seen as a package. We're seen that if we can get rid of one, we have the other one isolated and we can decimate them. Or they're jealous or intimidated by your friendship and your connection because a lot of them don't have that kind of ally with the other girls. And to see a true genuine sisterhood, I think that they, they are jealous that they don't have that. No one has their back like you have each other. You know, and they don't have the social standing. They don't maybe don't have the resources, you know, and there's, there's a lot of obviously reasons why people would be jealous of you too. I thought about this. If I was a producer, how do I fix it? I think that maybe two people should be reduced. The roles should be friend, friend roles. And I think that they should bring in one or two brand new women, preferably allies for you and Lisa, because it feels very, it doesn't feel very balanced at this point because you've got like five girls against two. Yeah. No, I happen to agree with you. I mean, I think it would be great to have a little bit of a cast shake up. I don't know what that means for who or what, but I do think it would be a positive. I think you're, they're getting to a point where it's so clearly divided now. I think they need to get in and start doing some repairing before it turns into a New Jersey situation, because then you get to a place of no return. That would be because it is by far my one of my favorite shows on the entire network. So, and I think it's great. I think it has really been great casting and big personalities. And I happen to like watching all of you. I don't personally like all of the girls, but I actually like watching the show. I agree. I completely agree. I don't personally like everybody. But you need a villain. It's good entertainment. Yes, I do. You need the train wrecks. You need all of that. Do you ever feel abandoned by production or the network when these girls are allowed to say whatever they want about your character, about, I mean, they're attacking your reputation. They're attacking your marriage. They're attacking your family. And it doesn't seem like there's much editing in the show. And if I were you, I'd feel very let down by the production company. Yeah, I mean, it is a bit disheartening when you say to yourself, okay, you know, we see these circumstances like what Monica referenced, you know, about the ambulance and whatever that's completely, we don't hear a word about that ever. But yet you can come after me relentlessly and say these horrible, highly defamatory things that I am willing to prove. I will pee in a cup anytime, anywhere. So anyone listening, feel free to hand me the cup as long as I privacy. I'm not going to do it on the street. But I mean, I don't do drugs. I drink within, you know, a very healthy limitation as Joey can attest to. You really do. You taught me the ice trick for the martini. So and I said from the beginning of this, I said, I am willing to take a drug test every single day of my life until you deem it that I don't do drugs. If you're willing to cut this because it's highly, highly damaging. It is. Did you find it hypocritical that Bronwyn spread gossip about your marriage, Seth specifically saying that he was so Seth was apparently allegedly having dinner with a woman that was not you in New York, which as far as I know, that happens all the time. People have dinners, drinks, coffees, meetings with people of opposite sex that aren't their wives. Did you find it very hypocritical that she it was kind of these veiled, well, not very veiled really, she was very, very clear, very clear that she felt he was having some sort of affair. And then, you know, coincidentally, at the exact same time her husband is on a plane watching porn. Yeah. I think it's beyond hypocritical, actually, because the if what you were saying was the whole story, yes, I would agree that it's hypocritical. But there's more to that story. And I have text messages from Todd confirming that there were four men at the dinner with Seth and that it was very clearly a business dinner. So why she would try to spin it into something else is the bigger issue. It's not even the hypocrisy. There's always hypocrisy with me. It's not OK to talk about your marriage, but let's talk about myrtle. It's not OK to call me names, but let's call myrtle them. The hypocrisy runs rampant on the show. This goes beyond hypocrisy. This goes beyond I am intentionally leaving out information to spin this in a very different narrative. And I have the receipts on it. I have receipts on it. So your husband was at a business dinner with several people. Correct. Okay, because on the show, she made it sound like it was set. A date. And another woman. Correct. Failed to mention the other people sitting at the table. Yes. So that's a direct attack. It's a direct attack. And I also know the owner of the restaurant who confirmed the same thing. But do you find yourself now on the defensive and now you're calling your husband, you're having to ask your husband these questions. Now he feels defensive. I mean, it's it's it's a very toxic situation. Well, the irony of all of this is it this it's funny because this business dinner was actually a very important dinner that had an impact on me as well. And so I knew about it before he even went to the dinner and he got home then I told me I saw Bram and Todd tonight. I ran into them at the restaurant. I was like, Oh, did you say hello blah blah blah. Like it was a very simple like conversation. So when this comes up, I know exactly what night she's talking about. I know exactly who he was with. And, you know, that's why I was like, Oh, whatever again, really, this is what we're doing now. It's enough. There was a few times on flipping out where I would wake up and I felt like I sold my soul to the devil. I think we sold our souls. We really did. I mean, because again, we go through these toxic negative environments, but then we sign right back up for those paychecks. You know, it's it's it's true. It's the problem is like I said, I, I feel like if I back down, I'm letting them win. And I also don't want to give up this platform that I have to like, and it's not just about my businesses. It's about all of the things that I can do that are positive, whether it's, you know, bringing awareness to some different causes that I care about or whatever it may be. It's meaning of life kind of stuff. Do you ever feel like like for me, I have a plan, right? I have a very clear plan of what I want. I want to use them like they use me. Do you feel the same way? I never really thought about it exactly in those terms, but yeah, I guess it's true. We all have our own goals and objectives. It's like a parasitic relationship. Still got that tab open from six months ago. Virgin Atlantic holidays can help. This is your sign to duck into a basement jazz bar in New York or rain forest trek to hidden waterfalls in a Caribbean or high five a superhero before breakfast in Florida. The only thing standing between you and this booking it booking store over the phone or online at Virgin Atlantic holidays. Select routes for teas and seas visit VirginAtlantic.com at all protected. Thank you all so much for being here at our wedding. I can't believe I get to spend the rest of my life with the woman of my dreams. Speaking of dreams, have you ever dreamed of tasting all the colours of the rainbow because that is exactly what you get with skittles. Five bold fruit flavours in every pack. Lemon, orange, lime, strawberry and blackcurrant. 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Immerse yourself in the filmmaking magic at Warner Brothers Studio Tour London. The making of Harry Potter. Tickets must be booked in advance. WBstudiotour.co.uk Let's take line one, Fern in Dallas. Hi Fern. Hi, shout out, Sean. Shout out first. Hey, Meredith. Hi. How are you? Hi Meredith. I'm great. How are you? I am great. Well, I wanted to first compliment and say that you looked really good on the reunion couch. Some people over spray. They just over, you know, tan spray. So you looked great. Thank you. But you're welcome. But I wanted to ask you a question. So, Lisa had said that she did not go on that RV road trip because she had an important event to attend. And she was name dropping Ben and Blake Lively. But then Ben comes back and says he hasn't been to Utah in years. Can you defend that on her part or what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, the event they were at was not in Utah. And I don't think Lisa was trying to say like, oh, I'm besties with him. I think it was more like I'm going to this event that he's, you know, for him. I think it was for a movie. And, you know, I know that like if I'm hosting an event, I meet a million and one people at it and I don't necessarily remember every single person, which is what he was kind of saying. He was like, I don't want to throw any under the bus. Like we meet a million and one people. So I don't, I think it was kind of like taken to a level that she didn't intend it to go to. That's my interpretation. I think it was just sort of like, yeah, I'm going to this event with, you know, Ben and Blake will be there. But, you know, whatever, but not like, oh, we're besties and I'm spending the whole night with them, you know. Thank you. Lisa's not the best arguer in the world. And she does get very emotional and she gets defensive. And what I would say to her as her friend, I think when you are successful, when you reach a certain level, I don't think she needs to be constantly defending herself. Because I think that she doesn't need to say a word, right? I think that the proof is what she and John have accomplished together. I don't think she has to constantly remind these women of what she's accomplished. She doesn't need to do that. I agree with you. And I think that at this point, she probably agrees with you too. I think it's a difficult position for her because they are coming after her over all of these things. And I know what it's like too. Like when someone's telling you, you are this, you are that, you do this, you do that. And none of it's true. Of course you're going to defend yourself and then it's like, oh, you're defensive. So now it's all true. You know, it's a game and it's a really shitty game. That's the bottom line. Like, Are you just shocked by some of your cast members lack of integrity that they will just make shit up that they will lie that I mean that they've been doing this. That they purposely are, you know, I don't know if they really are truly thinking about the long term damage of what they do to people's careers and businesses and reputations and families and relationships. And I mean, I'm curious, this has to put some sort of strain on your marriage has to when you're constantly defending yourself. Actually, weirdly, the show has for my marriage has made it better. I think because of all of this nonsense, Seth and I are just like, oh gosh, here we go, you know, and it almost makes us closer because we're fighting this together. But the lack of integrity. Yeah, that's a major issue. I mean, it's like completely incredulous to me. I don't understand that I could never do some of those things like they want to spread lies about lies about me. I could tell the truths about a lot of things that I just keep hold back. It's survival. I think it's not right. It's survival. They don't want to go back to whatever lives they had beforehand. And then when someone gets divorced. Well, I think they also want to deflect from some of their own wrongdoings or in some cases project as we've seen. So now that I saw, you know, now that we've heard that, you know, Bronwyn has separated from Todd, I'm like, here we go. Here's another one that needs a paycheck. So they're going to be all in. She's going to ramp it up. All in. Yeah, she's ramped. We got a lot of women that, you know, are clawing here and it's going to be interesting. We'll see how it unfolds. So the, were you surprised to hear that Todd and Bronwyn have separated? I mean, yes and no. It was clear from even just the things Bronwyn herself was saying that there were some issues there. So from that standpoint, I guess not, but from the standpoint that I don't really judge other people's relationships because everybody has their own dynamics. And if they're working for you, great. Like there are a lot of relationships. You think I was working for them, Meredith? Did you watch the show? Well, yes, but my point is like what everyone's expectations are from a relationship are different and maybe Bronwyn was happy with that. I don't know. And maybe Todd was happy with that. I can't speak to you. They didn't seem happy to me. He ate the cherry off the Sunday with a face that he was so happy. Like I think it seems like, and like you're right, you don't know, but I feel like the show can put for them specifically. You could see like he did not want to be there. She was so excited to be there and like that's where they clash. But sometimes I think in my opinion, I feel like girls will go on the show because they want to get out of their marriage. This is my platform. This is my time. It's the end promise. It's ramping up. But you can't rely on it to be like the forever. But when the like the Whitney's of the world, like when you start relying on it, you get start to get crazy and start to, you know, it gets, it gets bad. In some ways, when I, you know, when I was watching and I thought this poor woman is trapped in this marriage and it, you know, the marriage was exposed. I mean, let's be honest. It didn't, it didn't look like the healthiest relationship. And, you know, we could say we don't judge. I judge. I judge. And I was judging and it didn't look like a very happy relationship. It wouldn't be something that I would want in my life. And so in a way, I thought this show maybe will be her freedom to getting out of a unhappy, loveless marriage. And for that, I'm happy for Bronwyn. But I think what I don't like is that, you know, obviously the need to stay on the show now and to make up lies and, you know, and to go after the castmates to secure that position. I don't, I don't condone that part. But I mean, I hope it creates opportunities for her to be self-sufficient and independent and not have to ever be in a like a loveless relationship. Of course, you don't want anybody to be in a loveless relationship. I mean, that's not good, but I don't know that I would say the relationship was loveless. That's not how I would describe it necessarily. I didn't see any love. I'm sorry. Okay, but I didn't seem to have a lot of respect for her. I mean, like, I've actually been with them in person. Oh, you have. Maybe it's a little bit different than just watching them on TV. I would not have just, look, is it the relationship I would personally want? No, but I would never, I don't, I would not have described it as a loveless relationship. Okay. I would not. I would not. Now, Jen Shaw, you were always had a nice relationship with her, correct? Not exactly. We had a lot of ups and downs. A lot of ups and downs. I mean, we had some big problems, you know, regarding Brooks. And we had a rocky run, but we had some great times too, you know. Did you actually spoke to her when she was incarcerated? Is that correct? Yes, she called, I'd say about a year and a half ago, maybe. And it was like a 10 minute reported call. And it was, you know, very basic, you know, it's not, it was just how is your family and... Do you believe in second chances? 100%. Well, you, do you think you'll have any sort of relationship with her now? Well, she called me two days ago. Oh, she did? Yes. And I spoke to her. You know, I'm rooting for her. Like, I hope that she can do her best to right the wrongs that she did. And I mean, she has served her time. That's step one. Yes. She is paying restitution. I don't know how much she has or has not paid, but she's in the process. That to me is step two. Hopefully she can get all these people paid back and show that she's, you know, putting a positive foot forward. And I would love to see that for her. I think everyone would. Like, why wouldn't you want someone to be accountable, do their best to right the wrongs they did and then move forward? That's life. Speaking of being accountable and righting the wrongs moving forward, Joey, you had, over the last week, you had said that you have become Joey 2.0. Is that correct? And that you're going to be working on righting some of the wrongs you've done in the last few months. The journey to Joey 2.0. The journey to Joey is starting, but yeah, I mean, Let's play a little game today then. It's called Joey 2.0. Games don't go well with our group. Or oh, hell no. Joey, the last time you were here, you promised we'd be getting a brand new Joey. I'm going to give you a scenario and you tell us if it's something the new Joey would do, Joey 2.0, or behavior you're leaving in the past. Here we go. Oh, hell no. Number one, texting a toxic ex. Oh, hell no. Isn't that Joey 2.0? No, he's going to leave that behind. I'm leaving that behind. I am working on myself. Oh, hell no. Buying things you can't afford to treat yourself. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Getting too drunk at paid work events. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. That doesn't sound very convincing. That was a slight pause. Now, a day is that was. Hooking up with a stranger on an airplane. Whoa. Probably Joey 2.0. Okay, at least you're being honest. I could bring that with you. Having a threesome with a girl not pulling out and needing to purchase a plan B. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Over-inflating how much money you make. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Taking someone else's drink after finishing your own. Joey 2.0. Absolutely. I'm bringing that with me. I'm so sad if you don't do that for me. Yeah, I have to bring that back, of course. Licking the serving spoons clean after enjoying table side guacamole with friends. I'm going to say Joey 2.0. We're bitch. We're bitch. Telling a friend that you own your apartment when you rent it, then offering to buy their condo. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Making out with a coworker in the green room. Oh, hell no. Oh, hell no. Especially that situation. I don't believe that one. Sending nudes at the drop of a hat. Joey 2.0. Joey 2.0. If someone's going to ask for it. Bad idea. And the last one, not taking other people's advice. Oh, hell no. Do you have any Salt Lake City questions for Meredith? How's the relationship with Mary? And have you guys been watching the documentary? So, I have not watched the documentary. I was in Mexico when it came out and on vacation and that just didn't really appeal to me. But, you know, Mary and I have, our relationship's been very up and down over these last couple of years. I'm confused in all honesty. I'm just, I'm very confused by her, you know, and I just have to see how things unfold, you know. She's been very inconsistent. Yes. That's the thing. She'll tell me how much she loves me and then like, she'll say all these other things. And, and like the stuff that I feel like her being worried and concerned about me, that's fine. Like that, I appreciate somebody being concerned if it's, you know, genuine. And do I think she had a lot of other things going on in her life that skewed her view on it? Yes, I do. Do I think she had a lot of people in her ear relentlessly trying to convince her of something? Yeah, I do. We saw how she talked about the plane when she was on the red carpet at Bravo Con. It was kind of a little bit of a different vibe than what we saw in the show. So I think there was a lot going on there and maybe that's all that it is, but it's just, it's a little confusing. And I just have to watch and see how things unfold there. That's a good point because both her and Whitney have been affected by alcoholism and addiction. So they consider themselves experts on some case of it, but also they might just be so hypersensitive and speaking so far out of turn because they think that they. Can identify something that they can't. Look, do I think Mary was genuinely concerned? Yes, I do. Do I think it was warranted? No, I don't. But I think she was being told a lot of things. And at the end of the day, if she was really that concerned, I think she would have gone to my family and she didn't. So she was talking and expressing something that I think was real, but I don't think it was at the level that it gets interpreted at. I think it's interesting that they in the season finale where they, one of their reasoning, part of the reasoning is that you have some sort of issue is that you're so shut down and you're not being vulnerable with them and you're not opening up. And you said something that very much resonated with me and it said, why would I be vulnerable people that are trying to hurt me? Correct. You shut down. Of course, that's what you do. You protect yourself. You can't trust any of them. And in, except for Lisa. And I do want to ask you of the girl gang, right? So there's Brittany, Heather, Mary, Angie, Whitney, the girl gang. What who, who were you most hurt by? Who did the most damage this season? In your opinion? Um, I'm not really sure that she did the most damage by was the most hurt by Heather. Yeah. You know, that was definitely the most hurtful situation because I did think she was my, my friend. Like, Whitney's always played these games with me. I've never really thought that Whitney wanted to be my friend. Um, and Brittany clearly just hates me and has from the beginning, not necessarily the way beginning, but yeah, I mean, and Angie didn't do that much. And Mary, I think was had a lot going on and was concerned. And I don't, I don't think it was out of ill will with Mary. Heather can be aggressive. I think she's, look, I think she's a great character on the show. But she can be very aggressive and off putting. Yeah. And then it does become a no win scenario because you're like, okay, I will put on my swimsuit. I'll come out and I'll have a good time. And then you're out there smiling and they're like, see, there she is. She's on drugs because she having fun at the pool. I mean, if I'm happy, I'm in trouble. If I'm sad, I'm in trouble. If I talk, I'm in trouble. If I don't talk, I'm in trouble. Like, it's exactly a no one forget it. Like, I really hope they do a little bit of restructuring to make it a little bit easier for you. I hope so. I hope so. You know, we'll see. This is, this is not the first year that it's been like this. I mean, when we go back to like Bermuda, it was a very similar kind of situation. And I really didn't get many apologies after the good news is, is that, you know, Justin Sylvester and I were talking about this, there's always this kind of sacrificial lamb. You were season six, then it'll be someone else in season seven. You're probably good in season seven. I kind of was saying the same thing. I think the odd number of seasons are always a little easier for me. I think you're fine. They'll probably just go back to Lisa. Thanks for listening. If you want more of this, listen to Jeff Lewis live every weekday on SiriusXM, as well as the Jeff Lewis channel, exclusively on the SiriusXM app. Still got that tab open from six months ago. Virgin Atlantic holidays can help. 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