Michelle Obama Reveals All! Life-Changing Lessons on Intuition, Trusting Yourself & Loving Who You Are!

Jamie, you are going so deep. I have never had this in-depth conversation. I've never heard you share things like this before. That time was a blessing. You know, it really was. And that brought us closer, you know. You're killing me. Yeah, I do. Yeah. If I'm at a loss for any feeling, she comes through. Swine-o-people are good. You know. This is the worldwide premiere of the first lady, Michelle Obama, on the Jamie Carlin Michelle. In her new book, The Look, Michelle reveals for the first time ever how she and her team transformed the scrutiny of her public image into a celebration of self-expression, inclusion, and impact. Everything was being picked apart. And I say this not just because it's me, I think that happens to women in the world. We get reduced to how we look. And when somebody wants to go after us, they take that away from us. Over 80% of girls and women will literally opt out of meaningful activities if they don't like how they look. Over 90% of girls and women don't like their bodies. And when they think about what has this cost us, heels. I mean, you think about what we are tiptoeing around life, looking a certain way. There's nothing practical about working in a pair of heels in Nile Enns. There's no one on this planet that can say that that's what I would wake up and choose. If I'm really going to focus on the job, if we spend 20 minutes a day on something and live to be over 70, that's one year of our life we give it. If we're scrolling Instagram for 20 minutes a day or if we're figuring out what we're wearing or 20 minutes extra on our hair, whatever it might be, a year of our life and for a lot of us, it's way more than 20 minutes a day. I do not want corporate America. I don't want men or politicians in our business. You know, setting standards for us by how we should look and feel when they have no idea what it means for us. How much time we're wasting, how much time we could be using working on an issue, we're finishing a project or getting something done. Men aren't held to that standard. A handsome man could be fat tall, pot belly, six pack, bolding, gray, you know, a bearded knot. There's so many options for how men can look. But there's one definition and it's just so sad to see so many young girls altering their appearance, trying to fit into these narrow definitions, nose jobs and Botox and lip fillers and all. It's slowly but surely we are all trying to look like just one or five people. Yes. And the work that it takes to take yourself out of your natural state of being and to become something totally different. It is psychologically damaging, it is physically exhausting and it is financially ruining for so many of us. But we as women are sometimes the most judgmental of one another and of ourselves. We are hard on ourselves. Our mothers are hard on their daughters. Yes. And sometimes it's done in all good nature. They just want the best for us. I want you to have opportunity. I want you to find love. I want you to be accepted all the while. We are crushing the true spirit of girls and women. Yes. Do you now ever feel unworthy? We are all dealing with some level of insecurity. Right now in this moment do you feel beautiful? When you make big decisions, even the very first decision ever for Brocktoine for Presidency, he deferred to you. Is prayer involved? Is it you get still and meditate? And do you typically just know instantly? Do you ever second-guess yourself? Fear was really at the core of me wanting to say no. And I had to ask myself then and there, did I want to live my life running from something? Is there anything you fear now? I fear for our country. I fear for what division and mistrust can lead to. I fear that we aren't seeing each other anymore, that we aren't operating with sufficient empathy towards one another. I just fear that we don't give one another the benefit of the doubt. And I've seen what that kind of fear can do. My platform is to reach as many people as possible and to get us back in a conversation about us as people and ourselves and to remember our humanity and to work on our own forgiveness. I know there is power in that. This work that you're doing, these conversations, Jamie, there's power in that. And I remember the moment at John McCain's funeral where George W. Bush hands you whatever one thought was candy as a contract. And I feel like there's just this collected beside of hope and relief. I think for decades we've all understood, maybe our politicians aren't like minded but they're like-hearted. We see them go grab a coffee together after even though they may have voted different. They all believe in this country. I got to see all of America. Yes. In an intimate way. And rarely was I disappointed. I mean bad things happen. But people are good. Yes. Welcome to the Jamie Kernelema Show. I am so happy you're here. I'm so excited for this conversation we're having together today with First Lady Michelle Obama. The intention of the show is to be a force for good and a force for love. I have guests on that might vote differently, love differently, or pray differently from you and me because I believe to heal humanity through love. We must first understand the humans who make it up. I am so happy you are here and no matter how you vote or you love or you pray, you belong here. And whether today you're listening for yourself or because someone shared this episode with you, welcome to the J.K.L. Show podcast family. I'd be so grateful if you could take two seconds and hit the subscribe button on the app you're listening or watching on. That way you'll be the very first to get every inspirational episode. Plus you can get weekly inspiration right into your inbox from me for free. Just join my newsletter at jemykernelema.com and thank you so much for sharing this with every single person who you know who might need some inspiration today. Or perhaps a boost in hope and self-belief. Because we are all in this life together. Welcome to the J.K.L.K.L.M.E. Show. Oprah, how have you defied the odds? Her show is unlike any I've ever done. A revelation. When you listen, it feels like a hug, but your brain and your spirit and your heart is like, wow, Melinda, Fred, you gate. When I look into Jamie's eyes, I feel like I am on some other cosmic level with her. I could see the light around her. She's infused with light. Imagine overcoming self-doubt, learning to believe in yourself and trust yourself and know you are enough. Welcome to the J.K.L.K.L.M.E. Show. Jamie Kern Lima is her name. Everybody needs Jamie Kern Lima in their life. Jamie Kern Lima. Jamie, you're so inspiring. Jamie Kern Lima. She's one of the most requested guests of all time and she flew here today to join you and me in person. I am so excited to say first lady, Michelle Obama. Welcome to the Jamie Kern Lima show. Jamie, wow, I'm honored to say hi. I'm here. You're here. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much. I am so excited right off the top. Isn't a question is something I'm going to show you. Okay. I want to thank you for leveling up the look of my Christmas tree this year. Oh my goodness. You're going to be times 30. Imagine my tree. Okay. There's going to be 30 of these under my tree. And when everyone opens their gift, this is what they're getting. This is what they're getting. Because I initially, I was so excited to read it and I thought, oh great, I'm going to look at all the amazing photos. What I did not realize is I started the book, you know, rooting for you with your journey. I finished the book and I was like rooting for myself. Oh yeah. And I feel like every girl, every woman, every person who reads this and goes through this journey with you. Right? Because it's a journey of using our voice and expressing who we are, of dealing with pressure and expectations and how to handle them. And there's a lot of people that maybe don't even know how to actually use their voice voice. They can use their voice in other ways. And you just take us through this journey. And it's everyone's journey. I mean, yes, I was the first lady for eight years. That's kind of an odd position. Yeah. But I hope that the journey that I lay out from my south side, little Michelle Robinson days to now, reminds people of just the challenges and triumphs that we all have as women in the world, just trying to be ourselves and fight against all of the arrows and rocks that come our way as we're just trying to become more. Yes. You know, I mean, is that this line up? Thank you for that. Great gift. The best gift. The best gift. Merry Christmas, everyone. Not to mention like how good my tree is going to look. How good my tree is going to look. And it's a story for everyone. I think every person is going to see themselves in the book and think about their own journey when they go through it. Such a big journey we're all on is actually feeling our own intuition. Like trusting our first, like going what does this feel like when I meet this person? What does it feel like when I walk in this room? What does it feel like when I leave that conversation for you? How do you hear your own intuition? Oh, that's such a good question. God, that's a good question. How do I hear? I can tell you the story. I don't know if I know the how do I hear it. But after the campaign, right? And I got, I got dinged. I got raked over the coals. I realized that my intuition about how I have to show up in the world was right and true. And then I couldn't count on anyone else, not campaign staffers, not West Wing team. There's no way that somebody else could understand my journey better than me. And I think that was the time when I realized I cannot wait to be taught this. That I have to, I knew very clearly how I had to show up as first lady in a, you know, it was just an un, there was an uncanny clarity for me after the campaign of who I was going to be. And that was the first time in something really big where I just said, you know, I'm not listening to the advisors, to the media, to the press. I am going, I, I'm going to forge my path in the way that I see fit and let me live her die on that mountain. And that's probably the first time when I was sure of my tuition, in my intuition. I wasn't sure of how it would turn out, but I was, I was so clear, Jamie. And I can't tell you what that felt like, but maybe it was the, the whip of, of, of, of being criticized for something that I didn't completely control. And maybe that feeling made me think, let these choices be mine. When you make big decisions, even the very first decision ever for Brockton and for Presidency, he deferred to you. And said, this is a big decision for our family. Yeah. I'm going to let you make it. And that's a huge decision you taught. I know, it's like, thanks. Thanks so, Bama. You talk about like not wanting the regret of looking back and having not done it. And, and you know, of course, we all know you changed the course of history in that decision in so many ways. But making a decision like that, or even today, any decision that you make right now, how do you make those decisions, is prayer involved? Is if you get still and meditate and just try to tune in, do you typically just know instantly, do you ever second-guess yourself? Yes, to all of it. It's all there. It's all their prayer, intuition, meditation, quiet, second-guessing. It's all been a part of it. And I think that, I'm talking a lot about wisdom. Yeah. And I, you know, I just think in decision making, you get better at it over time because wisdom is earned. Yeah. You know, it's just the process of trying and failing and trying and failing. I mean, that's why, you know, in these kind of conversations, it's important to talk about the failures and the doubts. Yeah. Because that's all there. I talk about fear a lot because a lot of times fear is that the, it plays too big a role in my opinion at times and how we do make decisions. Yeah. And I've had to become very conscious. I think Baroque's run was the beginning of that. I write about the fact that fear was really at the core of me wanting to say no. And I had to ask myself, then, and there, did I want to live my life running from something? Did I want to teach my children, my daughters, to look at hard things and take the easy road? Is that where growth happens? And the answer often times is no. Yeah. But at that time in life, I understood the power of fear, to keep you stuck in a way that I just didn't want to be stuck not by fear, not by fear alone. But that's, that's a wisdom that I learned over time. That fear is that feeling that you have to push through. And that if you do, and, you know, again, there's fear that you don't want to push through. There's the gut that tells you, uh-uh, don't go down that alley. Don't trust that guy. You know, don't get in the car. Yes. Now that's a different kind of fear. Yeah. You know, I'm talking about the fear of living and the fear of avoiding failure all the time. Yes. The fear of not having anything bad or any hurt or any risk. That's the fear I've known and I learned through wisdom that I don't want to be stuck with. So I have to, I learned how to dissect that to know which fear was talking to me. Um, that's something I just learned over time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there anything you fear now? Oh, I fear for our country. Uh, you know, I fear for what, what division and mistrust can, can lead to. Um, I fear that we aren't seeing each other anymore that, that we aren't operating with sufficient empathy, um, towards one another. You know, I mean, they're just, I just fear that we don't give one another the benefit of the doubt. Um, and I've seen what that kind of fear can do. Um, it's, it's, the fears for me are not personal. Yeah. They aren't, you know, um, I, I think I've lived long enough. You know, I, I want my girls to be safe. I want the people I love to be safe. I want them to have, be grounded in faith and, and, and, and goodness and purpose. All of that is, is important, but the fears that I have are big. If for us as a people, us as humanity. Yeah. Um, but I'm, I'm hopeful. But no, I still have fears. Yeah. I know you've said a million times you'll never run. So I will not ask you that. Um, I will not ask you that. Thanks. Do you have any regrets in the past few years? Would you change any decision you've made in the past couple years? Wow. In the past couple of years. Let's say the past two years. The past two years. No. Okay. No. Yeah. But, you know, if you gave me, you know, this is the time when, you know, I'm out in their lights and I'm, you know, give me a minute by myself alone in my office and I might come up with a few. Yeah. Um, that is a good feeling though to know that you, you know, that you feel at peace with your decisions. Because so many, probably one of the most common questions I get asked from, from viewers, from listeners is like, how do I, how do I trust myself? How do I hear my intuition? How do I hear God? Yeah. How do I know? Is it fear speaking? Is it my intuition? And, and how do I, how do I truly trust myself? And so, um, and I think, you know, for you being an iconic woman in history who's impacted and inspired so many people who gives life changing history, making speeches who, I mean, you look at 30 plus countries, I think visited us first, like all the things that, that you've done. How do you trust your knowing when you have so many people that are like, but you could have what? How do you reconcile that? And I ask with the intention of everyone listening who's scared to trust their own knowing. Yeah. Well, in that instance, the, the first knowing is who I am. Yeah. And what I want. Right. Um, and that's a hard thing when everybody has an opinion or a, of you. Right. And we grow up with that. You should be a, this and you should go to this school and you know, you would really be, really be good at this and that. And look, I spent my 20s, 30s and 40s doing the things that based on what other people thought and what I saw over there and maybe that workout. And I've just learned that I got to start with who am I? No. Well, being, I unlike the vast majority of people on this planet, I actually know what it means to be president. I saw it up close and personal. I understand what the job means. This is just as an example. I know what the job means. I know what it means for one's family. I know the, the possibilities. I, I, I understand that sometimes you can't lead if people aren't ready for you to, to lead. I know what I am confident in as I know more about the job than the vast majority of people who think somebody should want it. Yeah. And I also know that most people have no idea what the job is. It is the one job where everybody is a backseat driver and only 40, 47, 6 people have done it ever in the history of our nation. There's no job like that. Right. People won't tell somebody how to dribble a ball, you know. They'll trust a pro to shoot a basket. Everybody thinks they, you know, can second guess the president of the United States. I don't care what party they're in. It's a hard job and it is, and it is taxing on everyone who is in their orbit. I know that for sure. And I know what I want for my family. I know the stage that I want for them. I know I got to be a little bit more than anything else. So I guess that's a long way of saying that's the certainty I have at 61. That makes what everybody else think I should want meaningless. Because I know that they don't know what they're asking. Yes. They have just no idea it's out of goodness. And there are a lot of people who operate well, but if you can win, then you should do it. And it's a view of power. Right? It's really interesting that, you know, people see a position. It's the most powerful position. Right now, I think the most powerful position for me is having a platform where the largest number of people feel like they can connect with me. You know, and once you put on a party hat, yeah, you lose half of those people. They forget that you were the human you were before you said you were going to do it. And right now, I'd like to think there are people of all parties who've come to know my voice in a way that isn't political. And it isn't partisan. I definitely have views. I definitely have beliefs and opinions. And I've supported certain people. But I think right now, I think my platform is to reach as many of those people as possible. And to get us back in a conversation about us as people and ourselves. And to, you know, remember our humanity and to work on our own forgiveness. I know there is power in that. It's not the hard power. It's not the glamorous in the big fancy car, you know, with all the security. But it is a power that I know is real and important. Yes. I think this work, this work that you're doing, these conversations, Jamie, there's power. Yes. In that. Because it's through these long conversations that people open up. Yes. And they, you know, their hearts open in a different way. They're just more ways to skin a cat. Yeah. We need it now. I feel like more than ever. I think like everyone in their own way, in their own platform can be a force for good and a force for love. Yes. Do what we can to help heal humanity through love. Yes. As you're sharing that, I'm thinking about a moment that's, you know, my family's, so I have five families, long story. I'm adopted. It's a whole thing. They all vote different. Love different, believe different, all the things. And I remember the moment at John McCain's funeral and then a second moment at HW Bush's funeral, where George W. Bush hands you, whatever one thought was candy as a contract. And I feel like there's this collected sigh of hope and relief. I think for decades we've all understood, okay, maybe our politicians aren't like minded, but they're like-hearted. We see them go grab a coffee together after even though they may have voted different. They all believe in this country. And it's the country that we are. That was the best thing about being first lady. We got to see all of America in an intimate way. Yeah. And rarely was I disappointed. I mean, and I do mean rarely. I mean bad things happen, but people are good. Yes. And just sometimes we just need to be leadership is about reminding us of that good. Yes. Because it's so easy to tap into our fear. We need to pause for a super brief break and while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going. To remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy. In life, you don't soar to the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy. How to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and its simple steps that bring life-changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you were born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at Worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. 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And now more of this incredible conversation together. Can you talk about how for every person listening and also for you that in a fashion and makeup and beauty can be an outward expression of our inner voice? Oh my goodness. You know, I think we, there comes a point in our lives, hopefully, not everybody is this way where what we put on how we wear our hair. I mean, I, I, I go back to all of our bedrooms as little girls. I don't know about you, but I don't know a little girl that didn't play dress up. I know that there are little girls out there that have different interests, but I was one of those. I had my Barbie dolls and I had my Chrissy dolls and, you know, I, I was a girly girl in that way. And just being able to play in those spaces, you know, it just felt special. That comes from something, right? There's just something in the fun of putting on a beautiful dress or a lovely shoe that just makes us, or at least makes me feel more like myself. You know, we all have to put on some kind of armor to get up and get ready in the day. I mean, we, maybe we don't think about it in those terms, whether it's as I write in the look, a business suit for your first day at the office or your wedding dress, what you choose to walk down the island or the gown, if you ever get to wear something beautiful like that for a black tie. And every single decision is a reflection of who you're trying to be at that moment in that time. So fashion, like it or not, is it, we are slowly sending a message about our values, about how we feel about ourselves and any given point in time. So I think that this book is a fun exploration into how that all unfolded for me. It was not just getting dressed. It was getting dressed to represent the world in those eight years to represent this nation. And there had to be a strategy behind it. And we talk a lot about that in the book. Yeah, hearing the intention. I've never heard you share things like this before, where you're sharing the behind the scenes of the intention of every outfit. And you're having, sometimes the pressure or what's going on. And we're there, we're there moments where Michelle from Euclid Avenue, maybe would have used her voice in a certain way, but in this particular role or in this particular time and history, where you chose to, I guess, express how you felt through what you wore. Or how you did your hair. I didn't really think about fashion as choice and voice early on in the course of the campaign. I mean, things were such a blur for us. I had never campaigned in that intense way. I mean, yes, Barack was a state senator. He was a U.S. senator. I only participated peripherally in those campaigns, but the run for the presidency was different. And I was overnight thrust out into the country relatively on my own. I had a small staff. I had a chief of staff, Melissa Winter. I had one communications person. It was the three of us. And I was still working full time. At the time I was the vice president for community affairs at the University of Chicago hospitals. It wasn't a small job. So I went from that life of a working mother. You know, the girls were pre-school and kindergarten. And I was that person. I was just trying to get to soccer and to drop off the kids at school. And I was thinking about the birthday present. And then I had to run to the office. So my wardrobe reflected that life. And then all of a sudden, I'm in people's backyards in Iowa talking about values and introducing myself at high school gymnasiums and in VA centers. And a rally with, you know, an event would go from 20 people in someone's backyard to eventually hundreds of people and then thousands of people. All of that happened over the course of months. So for me, dressing was just, it was a survival approach. Yeah. It was like, I would get, I would start the day on a campaign day at 5 a.m. I'd have to go and get my hair done at my salon. Get on the first Southwest flight out of Midway Airport in Chicago, which was usually a six, seven a.m. flight. Land somewhere in Iowa at the time. I would do anywhere from five to six events back to back to back with photo lines and rope lines. And, and some of the events were in schools and some were fancy events. And so it was like drinking from firehide. Did you, were you ready for, and I know this happens to every single woman I know who is public in any way, were you ready for so much attention on what you wore? I think you said, a brak could often wear the same suit every day. I know what notice is. But whatever, typically a woman wears, especially in the public eye, like, were you ready for that? Did you know that? I would, I know I was not ready for it because my focus was on the message. It was really I was trying to introduce our family to the country and help people understand who we were as the first black, potentially first family, traveling in mostly rural areas. I can't, I knew maybe people don't think they have anything in common with us. You know, so my approach was, let me tell you about us. Yeah. Now, let me tell you about how we grew up. Let me tell you about our parents and what we ate around the kitchen table and the lessons that we learned. I mean, I was so Jamie focused on that because I really felt like we're all alike. You know, we may have different skin colors. We may have different political views, but in the end, we all want the same thing. Yeah. And let me tell you, my message was really focused on that. I didn't, I wasn't thinking about how I looked. I was really, I was looking people in the eye and trying to connect. And then all of a sudden an article would be written and it would start no matter how passionate a speech would be, it would start with and she was wearing a fuchsia this and her arms were that and it was a shock actually to say, like for all that I said in that event, the first thing they noticed was what I had on. And it's written in here and the crowd was mesmerized. Some people were crying that that was sort of an afterthought. And Jamie, I have to tell you it was, it was a shock because that that wasn't going on with my husband. That wasn't going on with any of the other male candidates or speakers out there. It was happening to the women in a way. And it wasn't just comments about what we were wearing, but the size of my hips and my arms and I say that in a political situation, people are trying to win. Yeah. Which means they're trying to make you lose. Yes. And losing by making us lose, they had to make us feel like other. So everything was kind of, I learned everything was fair game. Even my personhood, my very being, the tone of my voice, I was accused of being angry. And it was shocking to me because there was nothing angry about me. You know, my, I was the same person that America has come to know. Funny, passionate, concerned, welcoming. Yeah. I was never any different. I have not changed a bit. But in a political climate, when the wrong statement could be turned on its head, I was stunned. And so I knew, wow, I cannot. I have to be mindful of everything I say, every word I utter, every hymn of my skirt, because everything was being picked apart. And I say this not just because it's me, I think that happens to women in the world. So it's, you know, our whole relationship with fashion isn't just accidental. You know, our value as women, we get reduced to how we look. And when somebody wants to go after us, they take that away from us. Yes. I think Michelle, you know, I started a beauty company, right? And one of my biggest goals was how can, you know, I do my full face in five minutes. And one of the reasons why the amount of time in my life, when I look back and I think about the amount of time where I didn't maybe want to leave the house because I was like, oh, this doesn't fit in this weight or whatever. It was something to do with appearance, something to do with appearance. And it's, you know, I was thinking about this because, you know, Dove released a study that over 80% of girls and women will literally opt out of meaningful activities. Like sometimes, you mean of time with loved ones, joining clubs or groups, they'll opt out of meaningful activities if they don't like how they look. Right? And over 90% of girls and women don't like their bodies. Yeah. And when I think about what has this cost us, what has this cost us? And to your point, every person, and especially every girl and woman can, I know certainly can relate to this. But I think about what it's cost us. I think about for me, I actually didn't wear swimsuit for a couple of decades until one day, I was like, what am I showing my daughter? Like, okay, I'm going to shake my cellulite with joy because I'm done. I'm done with what it's cost me. But when you think about that, do you think in a way it almost holds, and there's certainly, I think of subsets of culture where appearances even celebrated even more. There's more pressure to look so good, right? Whether it's hair, makeup, what we're wearing. Do you think that all of it, as it's aimed at women, has almost been another form of holding us back? Absolutely. I mean, you know, my aversion to pantyhose. That's one of those kind of who invented nylon? It feels like a trap for us. It's an expensive style invention that is completely impractical. They are uncomfortable, they rip, they, you know, and just wearing a dress to work, heels. I mean, you think about what we are tiptoeing around life, looking a certain way. I mean, the height of the heel, I wore a pair of heels over. These are, these boots are a little bit better because at least they're square-heeled. But you think of when, just putting on a heel to make the line of your leg look better, to make the hemline work. I mean, this is all the external stuff. There's nothing practical about working in a pair of heels and nylon. Yes. There's no one on this planet that can say that that's what I would wake up and choose. If I have, if I'm really going to focus on the job and the message that I want to be tiptoeing around in heels and worrying about whether I put a run in my stockings. But those are the standards that we're all trying to live up to. And, you know, part of my exploration into this journey is the first lady role, it just really heightened it. Yeah. Right. And I say this that the job of first lady is an interesting job, non-job. It doesn't come with a real salary or a job description. No one technically elected the first spouse, I'll say. We've only had first ladies. You're supposed to be aspirational, but representational, reachable, approachable. You're supposed to be feminine, but not too sexy. You have to be authentic, but like everyone else, the light of pressure. It's a lot of pressure on top of the unreasonable structures that we're in. You know, Barack wears the same suit, changes his tie, buttons up, you know, his decision or man's decision is, do I go with a stripe shirt or a plain white shirt? Yes. Do I go with a red tie or blue tie? If the day is long and there are a lot of events which was always a challenge for me with Barack, if we'd go from Air Force One to a hike to a fundraiser, what do I wear? Yeah, to that, that would work. A man takes off his jacket, rolls up his sleeves, he's casually takes off his tie, puts the tie back on, puts the same jacket back on. Doesn't have to worry about shoes or as women, do you wear a dress to somebody's home that's a nice fundraiser, but then are you really going to go on a hike? I had that dilemma. Am I going to go for a hike in the Grand Canyon in a cocktail dress with flats? What message does that send? Is that normal? Yes. That's what I'm doing in Air Force One, is trying to figure out whether I actually put on shorts to do a hike and how am I going to change to do the next event that we have to do? And how do I do it without interrupting the presidential motorcade? Yes. That's the extra work that women are doing. Yes. When I hear that, I just heard time, like time, capacity, energy. There is a thing that came out recently that said if we spend 20 minutes a day on something and live to be over 70, that's one year of our life we give it. So we're scrolling Instagram for 20 minutes a day or if we're figuring out what we're wearing or 20 minutes extra on our hair, whatever it might be, a year of our life. And for a lot of us, it's way more than 20 minutes a day. And one of the things in the look that I love so much is we need to pause for a super brief break. And while we do, take a moment to share this episode with every single person that you know who this could inspire. Because this conversation can truly be the words and inspiration they need to hear today to keep going. To remember that they matter and to feel less alone and more enough, more connected and more worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I love to hang out with you even more, especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox each and every Tuesday morning from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week, just go to jameycurnleema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one on one with Jamie Weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jameycurnleema.com or in the link in the show notes. I am so excited for this book. You know why? Because it's going to save so many people. It's going to save you. WERE THE! Your new beautiful book, you're the... Get this book. This book? I'm telling you. It's a book that can change anybody's life. We've picked it up. Anybody who's ever felt that they were not good enough didn't measure up. Something's missing in your life. I have to tell you, it's powerful. It's happening. It's worthy. Imagine what would you do if you fully believed in you? I went from struggling waitress facing non-stop rejection to founder of It Cosmetics, a billion dollar company by learning how to overcome self-doubt and believe I'm worthy of my hopes and dreams and I'm sharing how you can too and my new book worthy, how to believe you are enough and transform your life. If you're ready to truly trust yourself and break through that barrier of self-doubt and know that where you come from or even where you are right now doesn't determine where you're going, then worthy is for you. It's time to go from doubting your enough to knowing your enough. It's time to step into all of who you are and into the person you were born to be. And it's time to believe that you are worthy of it because in life we don't become what we want. We become what we believe we're worthy of. Join the worthy movement today by grabbing your copy of worthy anywhere books are sold and head to worthybook.com now for free gifts including my five part course on becoming unstoppable and my 95 page worthy workbook action plan. That teaches you how to implement the tools from the book into your real life right now. worthy is groundbreaking. Y'all, my God! worthy you are worthy. It's book to change lives. This book literally will teach you how to actually for worthy so that you can have the strength, you can have the confidence. The lessons in this book and the strategies will change your life. You will never be the same again after you read this book. Jamie's book worthy is a must read. It is going to inspire you, empower you, give you the hope that you need and the kick in the rear end that you deserve. Jamie's book worthy is incredible. The gifts are going away but they're off-reate right now on worthybook.com. And now more of this incredible conversation together. One of the things in the look that I love so much is you take us on your journey also of time and of what you trade for and you talk about, you talk about wearing braids in your hair and the time that you save and just how much more freeing that can be. And just sort of when we start to think, because I think always about the person that's going to get this home which includes 30 of my family members and Christmas under the tree. But when you go on this journey with you, you start to think about your own which is so, you know, I remember, you know, when I started a company in my living room and ended up working 100 hours for a decade. Michelle, I ended up doing the whole like Steve Jobs thing where I had the same black pants, I had 20 of them. Oh, Jamie, I was like, I have dreamt of the black error. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't even think you just have like I couldn't make one with the same. The same. I used to threaten with Meredith. I said, you know, I'm just going to go black. We're just going to be black and white. And that's all we're going to have the same, you know, yeah, it's a luxury. And, you know, I know I've I've dreamt about just ridding myself of all of the details and the worries. But do you in your off time, by the way, it can be so fun to you like when you walked in, I was like, oh, that's so good. And just like I get you know, because fashion can be fun. It's like how do we I think what's what's so exciting is the the the journey you're on. But I think so many women are on, which is like, okay, what am I willing to trade time for? What brings me joy? Does it bring me joy to like put on something special that's and then does it bring me even more joy? That's six days a week. I am in my sweats and all the things, right? Yeah. Well, I didn't I didn't really have that choices firstly. Of course. Yeah. Every day, every time I was up as we called it, you know, I was up for the public. Yes. And the days were were long. So as you mentioned, to save time. Yes. You know, I know having a glam team, I try to affect it. It feels like a luxury, but it was a time and time necessity. Yes. There's absolutely no way that I would be able to do my hair and make up and have clothes ready. And that fit, you know, because where is the woman that can live off the rack? Yes. You know, because it's not just finding the right outfit, but my arms are long. My legs are long. There's nothing on the rack that I could wear. So everything has to be altered. Everything has to fit just so. If you're bending over to hug a child, your shirt can't raise up because that could be the story. If they see a role on your side and the goal was always never make fashion the story. You know, always make the work the story, but it took a lot of work to make sure that that happened. Having a team of people, Meredith, Coobe, Carl Ray, Yenae and Jerry, that structuring it so that we spent X amount of time each month. Just thinking, okay, here's the calendar. What do we have to do? I'd set aside a few hours for fitting maybe once a month, once every couple of months to do all that. Just to lay it all out, to fit the clothes, to have them ready, so that when it was time to work, I could get up really pick something off of the rack and know that it fit. It was comfortable. It was appropriate. It was thoughtful. Every woman who is trying to get around in the world needs something like that, but we don't. We don't have it. Right. So now we've got to do what I did before I had my trifecta, which is to find the time in the middle of a busy day to go to a department store and park your car and go up the escalator, or to get online and order a bunch of clothes and have them sent. Then you've got to try them on and hope that they fit and then return them and on and on and on. You talk about hair. When you mentioned that you didn't wear a swimsuit for a while, for a lot of black women who are trying to fit into the one beauty standard of straight bouncy hair, swimming, being in the rain, you know, I find so many young girls that stay away from water. They're not in sports because they don't want to sweat because if your hair gets wet, just like any curly hair, you know, it goes from straight back to what it was. That's time. That's opportunity. That's our health. And that's why I say that, you know, I do not want corporate America. I don't want men or politicians in our business. You know, setting standards for us by how we should look and feel when they have no idea what it means for us. How much time we're wasting, how much time we could be using, working on an issue, or finishing a project, or getting something done. Instead, they, because we have Jamie such a narrow definition of beauty in the world, which is based on I don't even understand that you've got all these wonderful women all over the world trying to fit into this narrow definition of what is acceptable in terms of size and hair color and hair texture and flow. Men aren't held to that standard. You know, a handsome man could be fat tall, pot belly, six pack, bolding gray, you know, bearded not. There's so many options for how men can look. Yes. But there's one definition and it's just so sad to see so many young girls altering their appearance, trying to fit into these narrow definitions, and nose jobs, and Botox, and lip fillers, and all slowly but surely we are all trying to look like just one or five people. Yes. And the work that it takes to take yourself out of your natural state of being, and to become something totally different. It is psychologically damaging, it is physically exhausting, and it is financially ruining for so many of us. And I think, you know, I hope that the look helps to start this conversation among us, because it has to start with us, you know, sort of fighting against trying to fit into these narrow definitions of what beauty is, regardless of what the rest of the world says, because you know that, you know, the men can be hard, they can be judgmental, but we as women are sometimes the most judgmental of one another. Yes. And of ourselves. Yeah. We are hard on ourselves. Our mothers are hard on their daughters. Yes. And sometimes it's done in all good nature. They just want the best for us. I want you to have opportunity. I want you to find love. I want you. I want you to be accepted all the while. We are crushing the true spirit of girls and women. Yes. So powerful. And I think, you know, for me again, and I think going through the journey on this, when you warbraid, it was like, I was like jumping out of my seat. It was like, you know what I mean? Because it's such a deal. Me too. You too. And it was just, you know, you're all on this journey. And I feel like it's, I feel like one of the big things is this conversation, this book, us talking about these things, but also setting the example. Right. How many people felt just like, sad at taller when you walked out there, you know, with braids. And it's like, it's, I think also when we think about, and everyone listening and watching us right now can do this right now in their own life. What has it cost you the things we say to ourselves? Because you're exactly right. Yes. I have found often that most the judgment can come from other women or each other or even without knowing or well-intended family members or friends or, but I have said the hardest things to myself. Things I would never say to anyone else ever about, you know, body, face, whatever it might be hair, whatever it might be. And, and again, when you look at the numbers that over 90% of girls and women don't love their bodies, do you now ever feel not confident or unworthy? At this stage in life, it's rare. But I am 61. Yeah. And I have done a lot of work and reflection. I've lived a long life. And I think I fought off a lot of those insecurities and doubt, and doubts. So I would say no, but it took a lot of work. A lot of work. And time. And I think, and wisdom, you know, I mean, you live life and you, you, you, you slowly realize what really matters. And let me, as we said, fashion clothes, I love to feel good. I love to have my hair done. I love getting my makeup done. And I'm learning that that's me too. Yeah. That I love the cut of a dress. I love this body suit. I put it on and it just, it makes me happy. Dealown them to friends just. Oh, no. That's the, that's the, for a friend. That's the beauty of being 5-11. It's like, oh, I won't fit you. Well, I'll fit anybody. And my daughter's like, they, they, they try to sneak in my closet, but we have a deal. And I see them moving towards my closet direction. I'm like, where are you going? Yeah. What are you doing? You know, it's happening. I need to see what's happening. But it's taken some time for me to truly be comfortable in my own skin. And look, I understand why it takes so long to say, oh my gosh. I don't, there's not a magic page. I think it's just, for me, it was gradual over time. But I also try to remind myself, look, I wasn't set up in this world to feel any differently. I was a tall black girl from a working class family in America, where there were few images or role models for me to watch. I mean, I grew up watching Martian, Jan Brady. You know, I talk about those influences and why representation is so important, because if young girls don't see themselves on the covers of magazines and starring in shows, even though there are millions of beautiful young black and Latino girls out there, if they don't get the opportunities to star in shows or to be something that represents the standard of beauty, then you grow up. Not really sure whether little girls like you are actually beautiful and sought after. As I got older, I realized that's not me. That's messaging. That's socialization. And once I, you know, probably as I got out into the world and saw all types of women and people, and I saw women that were white and blonde and wealthy, and I saw, and I saw all the varying degrees of goodness. And beauty doesn't, or a certain standard of beauty doesn't guarantee that you're a good person, that you operate well in the world, that you uphold a certain set of values. You know, values, compassion, empathy doesn't have a, have a dress size. Or that you're even confident. Or have any self-worth. Yeah. And so, no correlation. So you slowly meet people and live in the world and you realize, wow, we're all dealing with some level of insecurity. We are all dealing with the messaging that's driven into our heads and it hurts us all in different ways. And we're all walking around with those scars. And then you get old enough to, and then you become a mother. Yes. And you start thinking about messaging to your daughters in my case, right? And you have to get yourself in check. You have to brush off your insecurities so that you don't pass them on to these beautiful girls. Yes. So in delivering a different set of messages to my daughter, I had to take them in myself. And there was a, that was a stage of growth that happened for me, right? And then fighting to be seen in the world as yourself, you know, the fight as first lady to define who I was and not let myself be defined. Fighting for that. Yes. In order to do it well, you have to love yourself. You have to really start appreciating the you that is there and using your voice. That's all this journey to now. And it didn't happen overnight and it doesn't happen for anybody overnight. And I don't think that any of us as women are free of it. You know, we're all struggling in this way. Struggling to grab hold of the thing in us that is true and embrace it and nurture it. And some of us succeed and some of us never succeed. And I just want more young girls to think differently about themselves in the world and what beauty is and to focus more on what they do. Yeah. Then what they look like, even though that part of it is fun. Yes. You know, right now in this moment, do you feel beautiful? Absolutely. I do. I feel the most beautiful that I've ever felt. Yeah. And as you know, that's not what's on the outside. That's health has always been, as you know, and many people know, it's critical. Yeah. It's been critical to my journey of acceptance because how I feel, you know, my health, my muscle tone, my stamina, my, my posture, you know, my flexibility, my, you know, because the older you get, the more aches and pains come. So you're, I know I'm constantly figuring out my body and doing that work and having the time now that I'm not showing up for the world. Yes. I'm able to show up. I'm still alive. Myself. He's still alive. Still aren't away. But I do feel the best that I've ever felt. And I would have never thought that 60 would feel like this because 60 nowadays is very different. I mean, I spend my time thinking about how my grandparents were when I thought they were old. Yes. Yes. You know, when I really thought they were old and they were my age. My grandparents who were gray-haired and retired and, you know, there was just a different notion of what being 60 and 70 was. And now it's totally different. You know, and, you know, I push health for people, you know, not just how you look, but how do you feel? Because as women, the best times in our lives are now. Yes. And if we're not healthy enough to enjoy this time, to get up and take that trip and walk through an airport for miles to climb a pyramid to, you know, to walk on cobblestones. When we have the time, we have the money, we have the wisdom. What a waste. Yeah. That would be. So I'm living to be healthy enough to live the life. At least I think I've earned. Yes. This conversation with First Lady Michelle Obama is so incredible. We made it into more than one part. So get ready to dive deeper into how to trust yourself. Use your voice and love who you truly are. You are not going to want to miss this incredible part two of our conversation with Michelle Obama. That's coming up in the next episode of the Jamie Kernley Michelle. Remember this episode is not just for you and me. Please share this with every single person that you know because it can impact and change their life too. And if you love today's episode, please click the follow or subscribe button for the show on the app. You're listening to it on or watching it on. And if it added value to your life, if you could give it a rating or review, I would be so grateful. Five stars. If you can. And again, just share it with every person you believe and share it with another person in your life who could benefit from it. Maybe you know someone needs to step into their authentic self or love who they truly are. Please post the episode and share it with others online or in your community who just might need the words and tools and lessons in this episode today. You never know whose life you're meant to change today by sharing this episode. And thank you so much for joining me today before you go. I want to share some words with you that couldn't be more true. You right now exactly as you are are enough and fully worthy. You're worthy of your greatest hopes, your wildest dreams, and all the unconditional love in the world. And it's an honor to welcome you to each and every episode of the Jamie Kernley Michelle here. I hope you'll come as you are. Heal where you need blossom what you choose journey toward your calling and stay as long as you'd like because you belong here. You are worthy. You are love. You are loved. And I love you. And I cannot wait to join you on the next episode of the Jamie Kernley Michelle. In life, you don't sort the level of your hopes and dreams. You stay stuck at the level of your self-worth. When you build your self-worth, you change your entire life. And that's exactly why I wrote my new book, Worthy. How to believe you are enough and transform your life for you. If you have some self-doubt to destroy and a destiny to fulfill, Worthy is for you. In Worthy, you'll learn proven tools and its simple steps that bring life-changing results. Like how to get unstuck from the things holding you back. Build unshakable self-love. Unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt and embrace the truths that wake up worthiness. Overcome limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome. Achieve your hopes and dreams by believing you are worthy of them and so much more. Are you ready to unleash your greatness and step into the person you are born to be? Imagine a life with zero self-doubt and unshakable self-worth. Get your copy of Worthy plus some amazing thank you bonus gifts for you at Worthybook.com or the link in the show notes below. Imagine what you do if you fully believed in you. It's time to find out with Worthy. Who you spend time around is so important as energy is contagious and so is self-belief. And I'd love to hang out with you even more especially if you could use an extra dose of inspiration. Which is exactly why I've created my free weekly newsletter that's also a love letter to you delivered straight to your inbox from me. If you haven't signed up to make sure that you get it each week just go to jameycurnleema.com to make sure you're on the list and you'll get your one-on-one with Jamie Weekly newsletter and get ready to believe in you. If you're tired of hearing the bad news every single day and need some inspiration, some tips, tools, joy and love hitting your inbox, I'm your girl. Subscribe at jameycurnleema.com or in the link in the show notes. And please note I'm not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professionals. 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