What's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of Nobody Asked Us with Desi and Kara presented by Brooks Running. We are on a roll! Oh my gosh. Um, I, you're probably confused. Desi's running in Morocco. How could she be recording as well? We're wearing the same outfits as last week. Who knows how this is happening? Magic. Uh, we've pre-recorded, spoiler, but we're gonna dig in to some Boston fun. Well, I'm out, hopefully still alive, trekking through Morocco and we're gonna keep it short, sweet, punchy, hit the highlights before we head into a big Boston week while we'll go in depth into all of this, among other things. But hey, this is exciting because we have podiums, top five finishes, champions, Boston marathon runners who know a thing or two about what it takes to be successful in Boston. So, Kara Goucher, let's dig in and see who's gonna have a good day in Boston this year. Let's do it. I mean, nobody knows it better than you, babe, but we'll all pretend like I know as well as you. Should we start with men or women? Let's start with the men because I think the women on the US side are far more interesting. Well, that's not true. Let's just start with the men anyways. Get them out of the way. Get them out. Okay. Do you wanna start with the men's division? Defending champ coming back, just like high level John Carere coming back. John Carere. Really good. Looking really good. I'm in 202.24 in Valencia this past year. Yeah. Wancho Chicago? Two years ago? Yeah. Swinging for the fences last year, right? Yeah. DNF. Yeah, DNF. But I mean, super good. That's what happened. And he, his brother, Wesley Carere, won it back when we were both still running. Right. Which for you, was until last year, but for me, was a while ago. So they're the first brothers, I believe, to both win Boston titles, which is actually really cool. And he just looked so good last year. So he's back 202 guy pretty fast. Yeah. Two men under 203. Been some Kiprudos in there. Knows a thing or two about Boston, obviously. And then just a ton of guys under 205. Yes. I mean, this is such a loaded field. Like you have Benzin Kiprudo, who's won there before. Negai, who's an Olympic medalist who won New York a couple of years ago. I mean, just, I mean, I don't even know what to say. Do you look at this top of this list, and it's like 10 guys under 205 are around there. But it's like Chicago, Chicago, Valencia, Dubai, Berlin, Valencia, Tokyo. Do you look at those times and go like, oh, the winner's coming from there? Or do you go like, hey, it's Boston? I don't know. I'm not sure those stack up. And I think that there's like a pre super shoe and a post super shoe, not to get into all that. But like, how does the Boston course factor into this? And does the shoe thing matter in Boston? Do you get the same like benefits gains from that on a course like Boston? What are your thoughts on that? Well, I've never run Boston in a super shoe. So actually, I want to know your thought on that. I think that it has made Boston faster. I just think it has. But I don't know that it's your, I'll be shocked. I mean, what did Conor Manson run there last year, 204 or 205? Just over 205. I can't remember. Okay, so I do think like, it's made Boston faster. But I also don't think it's the one thing that I love about Boston is I think it is really technical and you have to really know it and you have to be smart when you make your moves. And so the super shoes don't allow you to not, I don't know what the right word is, not cheap, but like not be so like, oh, I'm just going to go for it and whatever happens happens. And like, I'll still be able to like keep it together. I feel like you can still kind of have that blow up. But I'm actually curious with you because you had career pre and post super shoe at Boston. Do you think the super shoes work really well at Boston? Um, I think they matter. I think they make a difference. You're seeing that with the course records. Obviously the women's side just got smashed last year. I think I wouldn't be surprised it happens again. So I think people are running faster. I think the course does still take some something out of you. Like obviously we just went through this and there's not a Boston on here for a PR in the top 10, 15. I mean, you got to scroll down a ways to find the guy who's run the fast time on the Boston course. Not to say it can't be done. It's just there are other courses that are more favorable. I think the weather is probably the bigger factor. And so like all the challenges you just mentioned, plus you put in like a headwind or, you know, rain or maybe it's a hot day, like it just can be so many different things about there out there. And so I think that the weather is like the factor that matters almost more than the shoes is my take. So Oh, for sure. I mean, I think one of the reasons last year it was really fast on the men's and women's side. Obviously the women broke the record, but there was a tailwind last year. So I think the weather can be such a massive factor at Boston. But I mean, I like Roy Linkletter. I feel like he's been running really well and kind of just like I feel like Boston was a big breakthrough for him last year. And now he's kind of has a little swagger he's got going on. He does. He's become like a personality. He's like, I got a mullet in a denim jacket. I'm Rory fucking Linkletter. Canada. Canada. Canada. I kind of love it. He's like a moulson. He's like a walking moulson. He is. Yes. And I like I just feel like he has confidence right now. Yeah, he had some swag coming into Boston last year and then he lived up to it. And then it's like he's only taken that and gotten faster. And like he he ran even faster in Chicago. And I just feel like I think he's going to do really well. He's riding that high. Yes. Yeah. Well, look at this. Clayton Young's PR is from Boston. That's right. That's very true. I mean, I think he went he's been fitter. I think he went and ran the World Championships last year. Obviously, a hot championship style racing. But I think he was pro. I don't know. Maybe he was maybe he wasn't fitter than that last year. I'm not really sure. It's tough to say. But yeah, took advantage of a fast day for sure. I mean, I think Clayton Young can run well under 207 on a flat course. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. Well, let's dig into the American side. I think go ahead. Sorry. Oh, I was going to say, I like this American field on the men's side this year. I think it's really promising. I think obviously Conor Mans was fourth last year, learned so much kind of. I thought he was going to get third kind of just ran away from him at the very end. It was so close. How do you feel about Conor Mans right now in terms of it's gone a little bit quiet? Like if you follow his Strava, it's been offline abruptly. And this is again, we're doing this pre-recording and there might be some shifts. So I'm just trying to anticipate like, okay, is there going to be a drop? Or do you think he's shutting off the Strava, just putting his head down, being serious, staying out of the video content, and he's going to be ready to rip a face off? Like how do you feel about that? What do you think? What are you thinking right now? Not ripping a face off to pass it for that? I think that he's not going to rip a face off. He's too nice. Plus he's expecting a baby. So he's in a different headspace. No, no face ripping. But I do think that he gets in shape really quick. I think that's like a blessing and a curse. And I think one of the things that I, him and Clayton, I would say, is they're both probably not where they want to be. And they're in that time where like, you can overdo it, trying to catch up to some fitness that you wish you had, or you can kind of accept like, I'm just going to be a little undercooked. And sometimes I think even at Boston, that can be a little bit better. So I don't know, it'll be interesting to see what happens with Connor Manse. Like, is he trying to stuff in too much and too short of a time to, you know, get himself in a position to win this thing or be on the podium? Or is he going to be like, okay, well, it's not as great as I want it to be, but I'm still in really great shape. Yeah. Do you think he's a guy who lines up if he's not ready to go? Like, you see, like, and I don't mean not ready to line up. Yeah. Like, hey, I'm not going to be on the podium top five. I actually might not even be top American. Do I just not start and save it for the fall? I mean, I could see that. Like, yeah, let's try. He doesn't seem like a kind of guy that's like, well, just see what happens. Yeah. Like, that's not his personality. His personality is like, I'm all in and I'm here to like be great and show true greatness. I'm trying to even think of a race that he entered like not totally ready. And the only race I can think of is pre-Fontaine 10,000 last year. Yeah. He just looked a little out of place, but it's also like he was prepping for his American record attempt, which he got in the fall. Right. That feeds into it, but it's like, obviously his focus at this point in his career is not, let me be great at the 10. It's like, okay. Yeah, I wonder if it was either like a contract. Yeah, I wonder if it was like a contractual thing even almost, you know. Go around for a bit. Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a marathon since he started marathoning that he wasn't totally ready. And I can't come up with anything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it'll be interesting to kind of follow the next couple of weeks. The drops ads will come out. There'll be some changes. Health, fitness, travel, all of those things will factor. And so I think if he makes it through that, if he gets to the start line, the expectations for a guy like him are just, they're super high because that's what we're used to, whether that's fair or not, doesn't matter. Yep. I know. All right. Beyond man. How do we, yeah. How do we feel about Clayton Young? Well, I mean, I think he's in a similar situation, but I also think we cannot skip or sleep on the Zohar Talbi, who I think is a great shot to be the top American, even with a quick return bounce back from Houston. I think the course you can recover from pretty quickly. But yeah, I mean, I think Clayton, depending on health and how things have come around the last few weeks, he's in that similar position as Mans, where it's like he's fighting time. I think he's a guy who'd be better served undercooked. You know? Yes. Like just don't go crazy and head in dinged up. Just give yourself a chance to be fresh, and then you can use this as a stepping zone for the next one. But in that process, you might find that being a little bit fresher is actually what you need to have a really good day. I kind of like him because it feels like his fitness trajectory is kind of going like this. And I kind of like that into Boston. Like, maybe you wanted to be here and you're not going to quite get there, but you're still doing this instead of hitting it and then overdoing it a little bit and then you're hanging on. Yeah. So I actually feel like he could have a great day. But I think Talby is going to be a big storyline. And have we seen him run on a course like this before? He's run Boston before, I believe. I think he's run, I want to say he's run in New York as well. I don't know how he did in Boston. I think it was two years ago that he ran it. But yeah, I don't see why he can't be a factor. I think he's just a good racer. And whether it's marathons or other distances, he's kind of mixed it up on different terrains. So we'll see. Let's see. We'll look up his results. I mean, 205, 45 in Houston is really good. Yeah. I mean, you got the win. So he's pulling away. And he was racing late. But yeah, I mean, Houston's fast, though, also. It is. And then we have Ryan Ford, who looks like he's coming around. He does look good. He had a great New York and Talby was fifth at Boston in 2023, 208, 35. It's a great finish. Okay. Ryan Ford has been, he had a great New York half, great Houston half, along with Joe Klecker, their training partners now. So I think that's super helpful and beneficial. I think it's actually going to benefit Klecker more than Ford, just to have a guy who's run well on that course that he can kind of latch on to, just learn from and shadow for a little while. And then maybe that kind of keeps him in the right pace and race. If he were out there kind of without a training partner or sort of a barometer for his fitness, I think, I think that's beneficial. Bias and Boss is in there, 206, 53 guy. It's stacked. It is stacked. And I'm interested too in seeing Alex Mayerback out there. Yeah, I was looking for that one. He ran 208, 33 last year. I just feel like he's in that Puma League group that's been just running so well and they're going to be dialed. So I'm excited to see what he does out there too. And then there's a bunch of other awesome regular guys like Holland Benny and CJ Albertson, Sam Chalanga, there's a bunch of other really great American. We sleep on a little bit that I think will do well is Charles Hicks. He was a British athlete and then transferred like last year, I think, ran the 10 mile American record, I believe, or I think he ran. I think it was a cherry blossom, perhaps, and has taken to the longer distances really well. Ran his debut in New York last year. And I think he just seems super hungry and like he wants to learn as much as he can. He's doing as much as he can. He's sharing a ton of content about it. And he's a fun guy to watch. So I think definitely someone to keep your eye on. Good one. Yeah. Anybody else you're seeing there? Galen Rupp, what do you think? No. What time? Can we give him a time? Yeah, your name? What do you run in New York, 63 something? I think he'll be, it depends on how aggressive the lead pack is and where he positions himself. I don't know. I don't know if he can break 210 there at this point in his career. It's not like a diss. It's just like... That's reality. It's just a harder course. He just ran 63 in New York. It's kind of like you double it and add a couple of minutes. So now we're getting close to that 210 point. So... Yeah, I think under 210 would be a solid day. Like that would be a great day. Yeah, I think so too. I don't think that puts him in the mix. I think we have too many guys right now that are on their way up, I guess. Right. Does that make sense? Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think like, listen, he was, he won two Olympic medals and he won Chicago. So like, but all careers, there's a crest. It just is what it is. And I feel like he has crested that at this point. It doesn't mean that there's not still value in him going out there and doing what he wants to do. I just think that his days of being in the mix are probably past him. Fair. Okay, anyone else you're itching to talk about? Wesley Kiptie. Not really. Renegade Chicago. American Now. C.J. Albertson led the race in 22, I believe, for a long time. Yeah, he did. 21. He won 22. But in 21 was the big one where it was like, what? Because I didn't know he was still then. All right. I think we should talk about the women. Let's do it. I think that's a good idea. Let me scroll, scroll, scroll. Okay, so here is my observation of not being in the race, but watching it and calling it since 2021. The women's race has really changed the way it's run. It used to be kind of like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, throw halfway, work the hills a little bit, and then attack the final 10k. And they have started attacking earlier and earlier and earlier. In fact, they're attacking maybe the first two miles is relaxed, maybe. And then it's attack, attack, attack, and they are attacking up the hills. And then you can see them regroup a little bit at the end. But it's just way more aggressive throughout than it was in the past, in my opinion. I think that's a big reason why we've been seeing some fast times and also just a big difference between first and fourth as far as time. Because I think it's like, you have to decide really early that you are going to be super aggressive. And they are crazy aggressive. I remember thinking last year, they're blowing themselves up. They're going to suffer. And even though there was a few athletes that suffered, and like four or five of them still, I mean, Sharon LeCaddy ran 217. 217-22, of course, record, right? By a ton. And like you look at the list and it's again, Chicago, London, Chandler, Dubai, Hamburg, you know, Berlin, Chicago, Orlando. So yeah, the next Boston PB on there, you got to roll down to Jess McClain, which was last year. So yeah, what's up? Is this Sharon LeCaddy's to lose? If you look at the two, all the, she's the fastest entrant. And she's the only one with a sub 220 that was done on a hard course. Is she the overwhelming favorite? I think she is. I mean, I think when you have the course record and she beat O'Berry last year, who is obviously not here, I think it seems like they're in a different kind of category. But we haven't seen some of these women on the Boston course. Maybe they'll just take to it. Maybe, you know, they're actually better on this type of course, who knows? But I just think on paper, it's hers to lose. And she looked great at New York half. Like it really matched what she did last year. She just didn't win. I think it'll be interesting because the last couple of years, she's been chasing O'Berry, like very aware of each other, both being aggressive, a couple other women in that with them. O'Berry is not there this year. Does the whole dynamic of the race shift? I mean, I remember watching New York last year and they were working together to absolutely destroy Saphon's time. And like once they finally dropped her, it was like, okay, now we're racing each other. Yeah, no way. What are you gonna do? We're done being friends. We did what we needed to do. So like O'Berry's not here now. Do these other women try to work to try to break L'Occetti? I just think it's gonna be interesting. O'Berry's been such a fixture there for the last three years. And now she's not there. Yeah, I mean, that'll be just fascinating to see how the race kind of plays out. You're right. I don't, I think O'Berry dictated the race, even though she wasn't at the front. It was like, how do we beat her? What do we need to do? It was always thinking about O'Berry and she's, her absence will be felt, which makes you wonder, will it be aggressive? And I'll say yes, because Susanna Sullivan's in the field and she loves to go to the front and push it. Will that push be aggressive to L'Occetti? I don't know. Like, is that a pace? Is she gonna push it at a pace that feels like she's pushing it to 2.17.22 on the Boston course? L'Occetti, I don't know. Yeah, fair. But I do think you'll see, I wouldn't be shocked to see Americans leading and being the aggressors for a lot of the early part of the race. I think I could see Susanna Sullivan. I could see Dakota's been running. I mean, if you look, your long runs are crazy right now. I could see her wanting to go and make the most out of that fitness. Yeah, I'm trying to think of other front runners that we usually see out there. I'm wondering if L'Occetti would be fine to just sit back for a while. I bet she would love it. Because her thing was always like, we know O'Berry's such a good kicker, but the only other person that could even potentially kick with her is L'Occetti. But she always had to keep something in her back pocket and she couldn't let her run away. But maybe she feels so superior in her finishing speed with these other women. So maybe she'd be happy to be like, I don't care what pace we run today. I'll wait. I think she's probably got a point picked. This is where I want to go. And I can break everyone from here out in knowing the course is going to help. But I don't know. I guess I don't know track credentials of these other sub-220, I guess really sub-218 runners. What's their speed like? What's their background? What's their half marathon time? But I'm sure she's got to feel pretty comfortable with her closing speed. Yeah. Well, Emily Sissons in there, the American record holder, and she looked good at the New York half. She did. I think she was pretty happy with it too. I think that she was feeling good about where fitness was. She said she didn't particularly feel fast, which makes some sense. But she felt like she did that on strength alone and she was going to sharpen up obviously and had more work to do. So I think that that was a really solid run for her. Amanda Vestrie was right on, not right on Emily's heels, but she finished up right behind her along with, must have been Frisbee and, oh, Susanna Sullivan. So yeah, that crew ran very well in New York and was closing hard behind Emily. So I think they'll be a good pack, being able to work together. Yeah. I like, there's a lot of Americans in this field and I like that. It kind of reminds me of 2018. There was a lot of really good Americans in that year and sometimes that's like what it takes to get someone on that podium is just like having everyone there. And yeah, the pressure of like, hey, someone's going to be on there. I am super excited to see, not to put a ton of pressure on her or anything, but I am super excited to see Fiona O'Keefe race. She just ran so well in New York. There were questions like, how fit is she? She's been injured. She had a pretty significant injury and then she came and got fourth there and just ran so awesome. Yeah, I think she set the American course record there. I'm pretty sure she ran really fast too. And so she's shown she can do these tougher courses. So I guess she was out there training, but it was in the middle of a snowstorm. Gives us no information. Yeah, I mean, she reminds me of Mance a little bit where she's not going to line up at these now. If it's not, you know, I mean, obviously the Olympics was what it was and she's done that and she's done the experience side and she knows what that is. She's got the accolade yada yada, but it's now it's if I'm not here to have a monster day, I'm not lining up. It's got to be right. And I think, yeah, I think we've seen it in New York. Even in Orlando, you talk about tough conditions. Like, okay, if it's a hot day, she's not going to be phased. And so a lot of things going in her favor. And obviously Alistair and Amy both have experience on the Boston course. Sure, like you said, they've been out there. They've been on it. She's learning all the details of it and how to attack it just right. So I'm excited to see her as well. I think she's always going to be a factor when she lines up for these things. Yeah. Jess McLean has the confidence from last year. She was top American last year, ran her PR there, ran just so well in the like, the outer stages of the race. It was awesome. Yeah, I think here's a question with Jess. I think she's definitely going to be a factor. I think she has experience now. She knows what she's getting into. I think she felt the passion of the event and just sort of that energy. So she'll be super pumped to have another day like that, if not a little bit better, of course. Do you think her race in Atlanta at that half, like let's, she on like 208 pace, I don't know, was projected if she doesn't get taken off course? Is that performance ahead of what she's done last year? Do you think it's on par with what Emily did in New York? Or do you think she might be a step ahead of that group that raced in New York half? That's a good question. I mean, she also just ran a 10,000 this weekend too, which was a really solid performance. It wasn't quite as fast, I think as last year maybe, but she also was running completely solo, like completely solo and was racing with people last year more. I mean, I think she's probably in really good shape and she ran the course so well last year. Is she in better shape than Emily? That's like, I don't know, you know, but I think that they're all in the mix. And I think that's what's important is it's like, we need these American women to face each other and to get in these races because that's when the podium moments happen. But it's hard to tell, like she's just had a different plan. She's gone more with that the half marathon in Atlanta and then running at 10,000 and she's gone a little bit more speed oriented when she races, where I feel like Emily decided to go a little bit more strength when she raced to prepare. So they're kind of coming at it from different directions. Do you think that there's like a, if Coach Cara, what direction would you have your athlete prepare? I mean, obviously, there's not a right or wrong answer. Just like what you know in the course, having been on the podium, been in the hunt on Boylston, are you being more speed focused or do you think that the strength is something that really helps someone through Boston? I mean, I think you have to know your athlete. I would lean towards the strength stuff because it's like, if you have all the speed in the world, but you don't have the proper strength to survive all the hills and the downhills, like it doesn't really matter. I think that that hit me a little bit in no nine. It was like, I stayed super, super sharp, but I didn't respect necessarily how much the, like I didn't respect the fact that I wasn't going to feel super sharp when I hit Boylston. You know, and that righted that wrong as much as I could in 2011, but it was just a totally different situation. But I also think like you have to give your athlete what gives them confidence. So maybe Jess gets confidence from like shorter, faster stuff. I just think like, and it worked last year, it worked great last year. I just think you have to really, at Boston, speed is great. But unless you have the strength to back it up, it doesn't matter because you'll get there and you won't have any pop left. But that doesn't mean that her training isn't strength based, right? And she's just racing flat to have fun. So I don't know. Coach Cara is like, I need to know the exact athlete and what they love and what they get confidence from. Right. And also like what is the weakness that you're trying to work on and what did the schedule look like into the build up? Like, I mean, I think Emily's spent so many years just being a speedster and she like knows that. And I think that's probably muscle memory to a degree where it's like, I have to work on the strength stuff to get ready for a tough course. Because I think that probably between the years, Emily is like, I don't know if I've got, I haven't proven myself on a tough course. So let's get this strength side down where I know I'm good at the speed stuff where, you know, Jess is, she's coming off a couple of marathons in a row and it's just like what she needs at this phase of her career might be just different. And I think that's what's interesting to see is like build to build to build like where people move pieces. And some people just kind of, this is what I do when I stay the same, but it's fun to watch like, I know Jess and Amanda Vestrie have the same coach. And it's like, okay, Amanda's doing this, this and this, but that doesn't make sense for Jess in her career and where she's at and her age and the speed stuff she needs to work on to stay in touch with. And so it's just fun to see the different approaches and there's no right or wrong, but it will be fun to watch on race day and then also like put the commentary afterwards of like, oh, I wish I had or at this point I felt right. And it's like, I see like, you start to see the picture come together. Yeah. I think it'll be exciting to see Susanna Sullivan with her confidence after being fourth at Worlds, right? Yep. And Erica Kemp, I feel like Erica Kemp, she's on the roll. She's like the queen of the comeback. Like when she has this moment that really challenges her like her debut in Boston, such a frustrating experience for her, obviously had higher expectations and then she knocks out of the park in Houston. I think obviously Tokyo, she wanted it to go differently and she now has like, I know Boston, I've done it, I respect it. I know the spots that I need to change. So I think she'll kind of write that experience to rewrite it and have a good one. Yeah, it's just she's fun to root for. Yeah. I just love everybody in this field. Annie Frisbee broke kind of broke through in Boston last year. Natasha Rogers has been running really well. Dakota Popain's always good there. Gabby Rooker has been working through some mental stuff. I think she's super talented and if it all hits, it's going to be great. Like I just think this is a exciting American field. It gives me a little feeling of, oh, Sarah Hall's in here too. It gives me like a little bit of the feeling of 2018 where like everyone showed up. Yeah. And yeah. Well, there's, yeah, it's like, I don't want to say there's not a lot of depth because there is, but I think when you look at a field like this in terms of the international athletes, you expect three to have a little bit of a rocky build, right? Like they're not going to be themselves on race day. They're going to be just a little bit out of it from the beginning. And then, you know, there's going to be two people who don't even make it to the start. They'll probably be a couple drops. There'll be a couple ads that might filter in here. But like you look at this kind of list where Sysin is, and I feel like there's a bunch of people have proven their right around Sysin's ability. And like it seems like a top five to a podium to maybe a win is like right, it's achievable, right? Like if you say, Hey, if I have a Sysin type day, like, or if Sysin has an A plus day, there's no reason that somebody, one of these Americans can't, you know, break through and have that podium or win moment, right? It just has that feeling. I totally agree. A couple people are going to shut banged up. A couple of people are going to make some massive mistakes on the course because they haven't run there before or they're going to be overly confident that they think they're ready. I mean, I'm not trying to be mean, but remember, Kipcho gay. And so all of a sudden it goes from looking, not that it's a weak field, but it goes from looking like, Oh, those top five women are so fast. So like, well, really only one or two of them is probably going to actually hit. And so if someone else is ready to capitalize, they're going to. Right. Yep. And I think, I think we're due for an American breakthrough. When it was the last American women's podium in Boston, I was trying to think, was it you and 18? I want to say Hase was third in 19. Oh, you're right. She was third. Okay. Yeah. It's been a while though. We need another American up there. Yeah. It's been a time. Yeah. I think that was the last big, big American performance. Okay. Okay. Well, let's not do a top five. This is a short show. No, this is a short show. It's filling in because you're running across Morocco. Right. And we'll come back with the normal stuff, the top five, the sponsor plugs that we didn't get to you. That's right. In our next show. What was that? Sounds good. All right.
