Ina Garten

Whether you're off to the big match, getting! Enjoying a trip to the coast to catch up with friends. Or exploring some incredible history with your family. With up to a third of most rail travel, a rail card can help you save on train journeys all around Great Britain. Find the one for you at railcar.co.uk. Decent C Supply. Well, hello everyone. I'm very excited for this episode of Good Hang. I'm Amy Pohler and joining me today is Ina Garten. Ina is just a delight. And we are going to talk about so many fun things. We're going to talk about her TV show podcast, Be My Guest. We're going to talk about the best way to cook carrots. We're going to talk about enriched uranium. And she arrives with the best gift I've received yet. And the first gift I've received. So I can't wait to show you that. But before we get started, we always like to talk to somebody who knows our guest and has a question for them. And we have a real humdinger on this one. I mean, just a comedic genius, everybody's fave. What? Hasn't she done? Amy's TV, movies, just a social activist. She's in her garden. She's protecting herself from the sun. She's wearing a giant hat. Her name is Julia Louis-Dreyfus. JLD. This episode is presented to you by Walmart. I'd like to say that I'm a pretty good gift giver. It's about making the extra effort to find the perfect gift. Walmart has the top brands we all love in one place. Nespresso, Nintendo, Apple, you name it. That's why it has to be Walmart for all my gifts this year. Guest Best Gift Giver Award goes to yours truly. Get the brands everyone loves at prices. You'll love it Walmart. Who knew? Go to Walmart.com or download the app to get all your gifts this season. Get your hat out of your way. Get your hat out of your way. Get your hat out of your way. Get your hat out of your way. Get your hat out of your way. Your hat looks great. Whoa. You know what I want us to do. I mean, look, at this point, we should hats, whatever, scarves, whatever. Yeah, scarves hats. Oh my God, you're the best for getting on and doing this. Hi, friend. Hi, my friend. I'm so happy to see you. I'm so happy to see you too. And I was just thinking about the last time we saw each other, which was getting our hair colored. Yeah, at the salon. At the salon. Where all the ladies go to meet. Are you in California or? I'm in California. I'm in Santa Barbara, California. And this hat. It is a very California hat. It is actually. But I do, in fact, this isn't bullshit. I actually do wear this hat all the time because I'm conscious of getting too much sun. You know what? I was just saying, I was just telling someone that my dermatologist told me like, no more sun. Like you're done with sun, the end period. Yeah. And are you listening to your dermatologist? I'm finally, I'm sadly, I've known this for many years, but I need to talk to you about. And all the women listening about full sun shirts. I know everything. I can't wait. I knew you would. I knew you would. I have so much information for you. First of all, get this hat. Number one. I knew you would. And I so appreciate it because first of all, baby, you look incredible. Well, nobody looks better than you. Thank you, all the filters that are on this computer. Thank you as well. At one point, you should do that Zoom thing where you just get sun, you put sunglasses on yourself, and then you turn into a cat. And then the background turns into a beach. I wish I knew how to do that. Well, we're talking to Ina Garten today. Lucky you. And you know what? Before I even get into that, congratulations on your podcast. And congratulations on your podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Just two ladies having a podcast. Welcome to Showbiz. Where did you first meet Ina? On the podcast. Wow. You became friends after the pod? Correct. Like real proper friends. Oh, cool. How did that happen? I don't know. I just feel like she's... Have you ever met her? No. Never met her. Oh, well, you're going to just have the best conversation because she's as... She's exactly what you think. She's completely authentic. She's very kind. She's obviously very intelligent. She's hilarious. She's just got a great attitude. She's incredibly cheerful. FYI, that's a question you need to ask her. Okay. Why are you so cheerful? And say it that aggressively. I mean, I actually mean that. I don't mean it sarcastically. Although it's counted it. But I mean, like, seriously, why are you so cheerful? And also, what puts you in a bad mood? I'd like to know what really puts on in a bad mood. It's so interesting to say that because like in doing research on her and, you know, like, she has this... You know, she talks about it in her book. Like, a decision she makes to decide to enjoy life. She's just like kind of, you know, a lot of it is meeting Jeffrey. A lot. Yeah. And him saying, you know, I'm going to give you a safe container in which to decide, you know, what kind of life you want to live in. We're going to find joy in our lives. But she really seems like she's a kind of person in a made a decision and makes a decision every day. Yeah. I think she does. She's very intentional that way. And she's a hard worker. I mean, she's... I don't know if she'd call herself a workaholic, but she works hard. She likes to work. And that's reflected in the work that she does. And speaking of which, this is... I have another question for her that I'd like you to ask her. Please meet afterwards about some protection. No, no. Yes. Some protection, for sure. Definitely call me again. At the wedding, they long you're sleeping in. But I'm in my kitchen and the reason I'm in my kitchen is because it's a cooking question. I know. So I just want to point out for people who are listening but not watching a gorgeous bowl of lemons behind you. Oh, just a gorgeous bowl. What an extraordinary segue any polar because the dish that I created was a lemon dish. Ooh, yes. And I made a lemon sorbet, which I'm going to show you. Bragg. Yeah. Or going into Julia's refrigerator right now. She made a sorbet in a lemon. Okay, so listeners, this is a gorgeous sorbet that is in a lemon. In a lemon. Rind? Is it peel? The lemon does. It's in the... Shall we say the casing? The lemon cup. The lemon. She took... The casing of a lemon. Okay, she made the sorbet and then she scooped out the lemon and she put it back in. So now the lemon serves as a dish. Correct. And so the sorbet is delicious. Looks incredible. I made it with lemon, water and sugar and lemon zest. Okay. But here's the issue. It's very icy. And it's not creamy. Ah, I see. So the question, I don't know if you cook Amy. I do. I do. I love to cook and I want to talk to Ina about it because I was late to cooking very late. Well, by the way, all of her books are good for you because they're so easy. It's not crazy complicated and delicious, delicious recipes. But anyway, I need to know what to add to this. I'm guessing it's some sort of a binder of some sort that I can add to this to give it more of a... a creamier sorbet texture versus what I've got. Which, by the way, is totally delicious. But you can see it's sort of... It sort of breaks off. I find ice cream and sorbet to be very hard to make. Very hard to make well. I got news for you. This is delicious. Maybe don't ask her anything. Yeah, maybe it's perfect. It's just people. But I would like... No, I really would. Okay, so I'm going to ask her about the sorbet. I'm going to ask her about her positive attitude. And I will just say, and this is obvious question, but now that you are friends and you hang out... Have you and Brad gone to dinner with Ina and Jeffrey? Yes. Oh, great. And two, very successful, long marriages. Both of you. You know how I feel about you and your husband, Brad Hall, truly couple goals both of you. Just... Oh, that's so nice. You know, you know there's not always a lot of couples that you want to hang with. That's true. That's true. It's usually one or the other. Yeah, it's true. We have dinner plans tonight with a couple. And let's just say I'm thinking of a way right now to get out of it. Yeah. Yeah, you could just say you were wearing a hat and... I was wearing a hat. I got a headache. I got too tight. I hate too much sorbet. I'm sick. That'll work. Okay, so I'm going to ask Ina about her attitude, sorbet, and what puts her in a bad mood. I really like to know what puts her in a bad mood. I hope she'll answer on us. I know, I wonder. I mean, truly, what is so interesting about her is her success came late in life. Yeah. And FYI, she worked in the White House in nuclear energy as I recall. Dang. What do life indeed? So I... And for talking to her, and tell her I said hi. I will. Call me later and I'll give you a bunch of sunscreen tips, including clothing. I know. And products for your face. I got to get the whole thing. Do the sunscreen. I've got good sunscreen that doesn't turn your face white too. Okay, I always use sunscreen, but I think I'm at a point now where I have to wear the full shirt, which... I know, God. You know, it's just like...it feels like everything fun is taken away. That's the attitude, Amy. Except for sorbet. No, I'm sorry. Wait, how I know that. How are that? How can I get out of this funk if you can? Do you ever feel like everything fun is taken away? Anyway, Julie is having some trouble with her sorbet and the creaminess of it. So let's get to that. All right, thank you for jumping on. I really appreciate it. Will you come do this someday when you're not doing yours? I know you're so busy, but come... I would love to. Absolutely. You are in fact a good hang. Thank you. So are you, friend? And I think about our times together a lot and always want more of them, so let's make it happen. Done and done. So I brought you a little present. I shopped all over the world for it. I went to Air Maze. I went to all the fabulous stores. And I chose something I thought you might like. I know. Listeners, Ina's giving me a beautiful green bag. There's some ASMR, some crinkle ASMR. Oh my goodness. Did I guess right? I'm getting chills. Okay. No, it's not a diamond necklace. Oh, it's so incredible. Jenna, do you know what this is? It's... I'm a pro at fake roast chicken. Just to add to your collection. Actually, my heart is pounding. My heart is pounding. First of all, there's so many things I love about this. Thank you. I love this. I really... I was going to cry. I liked it. It is the same size as a roast chicken. It's not a fake fake. It's a real fake. I like the glistening. There's some kind of fake... I like that this little legs are tied together. This is actually how you would... Because I make your roast chicken with fennel. Oh, do? Yes. That's my favorite recipe. And you talk about talking the wings and tying here and putting the lemons inside. And the weight of it. You can't listen or you can't feel it, but it's got a good weight, but not... I'll give you a drop on your toe. You can break it. I know. That is the night as you heard. I love fake food. I've gotten that idea here. And I know I should probably put it in the back, but I also want to keep it close. Oh, I love it. Okay. I'll put it in the back. Thank you so much. I'm lovely. And now, everyone who sees it will know that it came from here. I mean, you're a roast chicken. We have a lot to talk about today. Okay. But I'm sure you've heard this from many people, but what... You are like a translator. So, you take what you've learned and what you know and you make people understand it. And it's a rare skill. Oh, thank you. That's wonderful. I just... This roast chicken... Even though it's fake, is making me think about the fact that you taught me how to make a roast chicken, which... And what is bigger than that? And deeper than that is... It's not about the chicken. It's about when you cook everybody shows up. And then you create a community around yourself. And I didn't know that until I started writing cookbooks. But it's just a really important thing that we all need to feel like we're part of something and that we take care of people and they take care of us. And a roast chicken is the most basic thing. I don't think there's a culture in the world that doesn't have some kind of roast chicken. So, people start podcasts sometimes to check mics and they say, what do you eat for breakfast? Like, what did you eat for breakfast? Is the question that a lot of people ask when they're starting a podcast. I know what did you have for breakfast this morning? I have the same thing I always have. And I go for years with one breakfast. And then I switch and I go for years with another breakfast. So, I always have whole grain toast with really good butter. I love French butter and coffee. And that's breakfast. Coffee drinker. How do you take your coffee with milk? And tea drinker at all? I start drinking tea around 10.30. Like, not at 10.29. Not at 10.31, but at 10.30 my brain goes tea. And no more coffee the rest of the day. I probably not. That's my good French tea. I love good French tea. I have a lot of young friends who talk about how they can't sleep. And when you check out their coffee intake. It's like crazy. It's crazy. But I have, I brought something else with me too. While we're on that subject of breakfast. I brought something else. And I think Jenna might have it right here. If we play our cards right. I mean, I know it's giving me more things. It's overwhelmed. Well, I thought we have to put party here. I didn't have to do it on a drug party. We love a good party. Oh my gosh. Okay. So they have fabulous strawberries at Edelay downstairs. Mine is polyamphus. They're from Harry's berries. And I think it's in the Northwest. Yeah. Harry's berries is really big in California too. It's just just the best. And I thought we have to have something to drink with. Oh my gosh. So we're going to a nice chill tourseco. This could be breakfast. I want you to know I, I barely drink anymore. So I'm a real lightweight. I'm worse. I'm totally worse. I always say I spent so much more time talking about drinking than I do actually drinking. If I have to have a glass of that, I'm going to really start. Oh, it's a secret. There's going to be some tears. I think I might have to fill your glass. First getting it open is not so easy. I used to be in the food service industry. Oh, we were so on. I'd be happy to open it for you because I think you're going to be the one to do this. Okay, because I used to open a lot of, um, wait, why are you flinching Jenna? I know how to open. Um, so here's the key. She turned the bottle not the cork, right? Exactly. And also you want to, you want to do the, um, the thing where you are talk about something else while you're doing it. So nobody's strapped. Oh, so you could say like, you know, when you're opening your, um, champagne, you're just saying, so just a couple of things about the specials tonight. Um, we have a gorgeous, um, fake roast chicken. That is really delicious. And we have, um, we have, um, well done, like a pro. Whoa. Oh, my God. May I? Okay. Yes, please. Thank you so much. Okay. We're pouring champagne. Very little for me. I've ever. Podcasts are great, guys. All you do is you get presents and then you have champagne with I9 and strawberries. This is a, this is a, isn't this very pretty woman? So champagne and strawberries. Cheers. How we imagined our life. Cheers. Cut to me immediately crying. Okay. Wow. And these strawberries look amazing to you know, I'm going to say something a little controversial. There's going to be a lot of controversy in this podcast. Fruit. Fruit. You don't like fruit? I like it. But I'll take a vegetable over fruit. I'll take vegetables over fruit. But fruit that is picked before you eat it, that's, that tastes like fruit. The problem is a lot of things here have been picked like six months ago. Yeah. And they're shipped somewhere. They're not, it's not like going to a farm stand and buying. When, when you go to France, there are stores that sell fruit. That's when you go to pick out a pair, they say, no, you want these pairs. And do you want to eat it today or tomorrow? And they're choosing it by how ripe it is. So it's going to be perfect today or perfect tomorrow. The problem is we're eating fruit out of season. Yeah. I mean, the strawberries are in season. Yeah. We're eating fruit that's not ripe and done the vine. Yeah. It's been ripe and by sitting around which doesn't ripen it. Yeah. It just ages it. Yeah. So the thing about good, like good strawberries, it tastes like strawberry jam. You don't need to do anything with it. And I know this is kind of a Sophie's choice. But if you had to go between sweet and salty, what would be your choice? Are you a savory or you are a sweet person? Um, I'm a savory. I'm a savory. That's what I'm saying. So fruit, sometimes is a little like, I'd rather have a cheese than a fruit. Oh, I'm with you there. Okay. Cheese and bread. I mean, I forget it. Cheese and bread, Dessert Island, you went out good. What you grew up in Brooklyn, what did you eat growing up? Your mother was a dietitian. Yeah. Did you have, did that, what were you eating at home and what did you eat? She was, she was very extreme in what she served. And she believed that you should only protein and vegetables and nothing else. I mean, there were no, there wasn't bread. There wasn't french fries. There wasn't, um, there wasn't, I mean, literally no carbs. Wow. So I was like starving when I was again. I don't know cookies and milk when you got home from school. If I asked her for something for, um, at one, if I got home and I was hungry, she'd go, oh, just eat an apple. I mean, nobody wants an apple after school. No, especially since they've just given one to a teacher. Yeah. And they're associated with teachers. But it's, it's interesting because, you know, um, in, uh, when you grew up and, and after, there was a, I mean, there still is, of course, this crazy diet culture. But there was this like weird fear about food, like, and the fear shifts all the time. Sometimes we're afraid of carbs. Then we're afraid of fats. Then we're afraid of like, and you've witnessed this, the trends that were people come and go and they decide what we're supposed to be afraid of. Mm-hmm. And I remember growing up, gripping the seventies. There was just a lot of, um, misinformation about food. It was just, we just didn't know what we didn't know, I guess. I mean, at the end of the day, I think, the more you cook, um, and choose simple things to cook. And the less you eat processed foods, that's really all you need to know. And if you eat a balanced diet, you feel better. I know. And it doesn't mean you're, you know, you're living on carbs or you're, there are no carbs. It's balanced. And if you want to be healthier, then eat a little more vegetables and a little less protein in carbs. But I mean, that's, I know it's not that complicated. I know it's not that complicated. But real food was not something discussed in the seventies. The seventies was about gadgets and shortcuts, right? Because women were going back to work and it was very much like, hey, you don't have to make the meal make, you know, make stuff in your microwave instead. And there was, I remember, I'll speak on behalf of my mom, like a freedom in things being faster and easier. And kids being able to do it and all that kind of stuff. But we did. Did you cook when you were a kid? No. Because you didn't start cooking into you like 40, right? Right. So what changed? So I, I really believed up and kind of what I, what I was saying to you earlier, I really believed that it just was the kind of person that, I was like, I just, I just don't think I'm the kind of person that cooks. I was saying myself, you don't, you're not the kind of person who can cook or wants to cook. I think a little bit of both. I think it was like, I don't really know enough dishes and maybe it's something I'm not interested in. But what motivates me sometimes, Ina, is watching really dumb people do things. Because I'm like, wait a minute, there's a lot of, wait, look at Ina interviewing me by the way, I haven't even so much talking. Wait a minute, hold on, I gotta pause. You are good. You're interviewing me. No, we're having a conversation. No, we're having a conversation. All right, I have one sip of my tea. One sip. One sip. I'm like, you know what the thing is, I know. The 70s, no. But you were a big part of me feeling like, wait a minute, I've seen some dumb person cooking. No, we have to back up here. No, I guess I mean that like, I was motivated by, I watched people learn how to cook and I thought, hold on, I know how to learn new things. Yeah, I can learn new things. One of my favorite things that Jennifer Groner ever said was she said, as you get older, you're not willing to try new things because you're afraid of failing. Of course. When you're a kid, you try everything and you fail, you get up, you do it again. But as we get older, we're not willing to do that. And I think it really got me to think about the things that I was enduring because I thought I wouldn't be able to do them well. That's a pattern in your life over and over again for you is you decide to kind of evaluate where you are and choose a joyful next path. Like it's, you've done that over and over again. So you grew up in Brooklyn, we, we got to bring Jeffrey in right away. I mean, I don't know, we just got to bring him in. I'd like to bring him in here right now. I mean, Jeffrey and you meet first when you're 16 and then I was like 17 when he saw me and I was 16 when he saw me and I met him when I was 17. And you were married at 20. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. The smartest thing I ever did. No, I have to say against everybody's advice. If your mother tells you not to marry somebody, listen to yourself, not your mother. And what, what a Jeffrey's parents think, did he, did they want it? They were just wonderful to me. They were wonderful. Yeah. Jeffrey's grandmother, they met me when I met them when some family bar myths or something. And Jeffrey's his button fell off his coat. And I said, oh, just give it to me. I'll sew it back on again. And his grandmother's were taking their wedding rings and going, marry her now before somebody else. She knows how to sew a button on. I think what people, I know what people respond to about your relationship with Jeffrey. And it is that you kind of can't fake mutual respect. Yeah. You just see it or you don't. And you two have a lot of respect for each other. Yeah. And we do, we keep it very simple. We have a very different kind of life than we expected to. I mean, we don't have kids. We don't have cats and dogs. So we don't have gerables. We're just, it's just the two of us. And if we try to figure out what to do, we figure out what he wants to do and what I want to do. And this is what Jeffrey taught me is, is let's figure out how we can both do what we want to do. It's not about whether we get to do what you want to do or I want to do. And big things like careers and small things like what movie would go see? I just, I love that about him. He's so respectful. And it's pretty hard not to, you know, to return that. Yeah. It's just in a long marriage and a long relationship. It's like one of the things you have to be vigilant about is just trying to stay respectful with someone that you, that you know so well. Because we just get very familiar with people. And we forget that part where we have to be kind of tender with them. And you're both a very tender with each other. Yeah. I don't take it for granted ever. What do people say to you about your relationship with Jeffrey? Because I bet people project a lot on it. I know the internet does a lot of people say, oh, I have a Jeffrey too. And I think to myself now. You're like bring it to me and in your dreams. And you're like stay away from my Jeffrey. Does the women ever hit on your Jeffrey? No, I hope not. Oh my God, I would be. I would be like, I'm not going to be a woman. But yeah, people say, oh, I have a real, and what do you think they're saying when they say that? That I have somebody that I have a really good time with. That I just adore and he adores me back, which is all you really want, right? But you know, that's what you want. And I relate to that too. But I think sometimes people forget the fun part in relationship. It's so important. Why is it important? I mean, what's the first thing you look for in a friend or a spouse? They have a sense of humor. Because otherwise, I mean, every this such crazy stuff going on. I think you don't have a sense of humor about it. You're just too serious. You're too serious to live with. I know. I know it's very simple, but it's sometimes hard to learn. And I do think that the other thing that people see in your relationship is a man who is very in love with his partner. And you are choosing someone who loves you. I guess it's the simplest way to say it. And that's, it seems so easy and simple, but it's not always what people do. I knew somebody who would fix people up with, you know, together. Yeah. And Jeffrey said to her, what do you look for in somebody that you're fixing up with a friend of yours? And she said three things. Are they a good person? Do they want to take care of you? And that doesn't mean financially. That means everything. Like do you want to, do they want to take care of you? And the third one really shocked me because it was so simple. Does he want to be with you? Mm. So many people want a wife, but they want to go play golf. But that's the thing about Jeffrey. There's nothing. And it just follows me around the house. And everyone's wrong. I turn around and go, does he want to be with you? Yes. Do you want to be any children's company? Do you want to be together? Yes. You're just looking for that to fill in that blank. Yeah. That is so deep. It really is. It's so simple. And yet it's so important. Yeah. And I know that you, you know, you, I, anyone who's been married, how many years have you been married? Fifty-seven. So you have this, you know, ever-changing story, right? This song that keeps changing and growing. How have you grown? How have you both changed from when you were married to 20? Like how are you different? I think when we were married at 20, we each had like roles. You know, he was the husband. I was the wife. I'd go, you know, we both had jobs and, you know, we, he would go to the state department. I worked in the White House and it was assumed that I would come home and make dinner until I found it just incredibly annoying. I just didn't want to have the girl role and him have the boy role. And so we just threw the whole thing away and started all over again. So he just took the checkbook and he said, here, you do it. He said to me, he said to me, I, what's he doing that Bill saying goes, I, what's this Bill from Bloomingdale's? And I thought, I'm not about to justify to you what my Bill from Bloomingdale's is. And he picks up the checkbook and he hands it to me and goes, okay, you do it. And I said, fine. And that was that. So I have such memories of my parents sitting at the kitchen table with their checkbook. Do we get together? Yeah, that's interesting. And it being a big deal about who was doing it. You're right. I think a lot of women during that time just didn't, weren't even aware of their financial situation, let alone knew how to do it. Exactly. And recently actually Jeffery said to me, so how much do we spend on the garden? And you're like, Jeffery, don't ask questions. Like, that doesn't matter. We have strawberries. We're fine. I just want, I don't think so. Okay, I get it. Okay, we cannot blow past the White House. We just said so casually. I was at the White House. I was at the State Department, like an episode of the Americans or something. But that was awesome. You didn't know that. That's the untold story. I mean, could you argue that you and Jeffery worked for the CIA? Well, I think a few people, you know, you don't know this about Jeffery, but he was a power trooper and a green beret. And then his first job was in the White House and then he worked for the Secretary of State. So everybody I know thinks he's in the CIA. And everyone's well, I go, are you, are you an official number one? And he always says, you know, the wives of the last to know. That would be an amazing show. I would watch that where he reveals at age 90. And I'm a Russian agent. But you worked in the White House and you were working during the Ford administration, the Carter administration, like during the those four. I've started when Ford came in and then stayed on through Carter. And what were you doing there? I worked on nuclear energy policy. And nuclear energy policy. So it's the part of the federal budget that I worked at Office of Management and Budget which rights the person's budget. And I oversaw the budget for nuclear power plants and interesting that it's come up now in rich tyranny. Yes, it's very, a uranium is in the news. It's in the news back in the news. And how did you get that job? How did you get a job? I just, I think Jeffrey knew somebody in the White House who was looking for somebody. And I applied for the job and got it. And you talked about how it was pretty, it was tough for you. There was things moved slowly. Slowly? Yeah. Oh my God. Every year we would take something out of the budget. Something big. I mean, at the time it was, there was one, nuclear project that was $20 billion, which was a lot at that time in the 70s. And it would go up to the hill. And the Congress person, I think it was Strom Thurman, was from the district that this plant was in. And then we were trying to get it, get rid of it or give it to private industry. He would have no control over it. So he would put it back in. Wow. And then the next year I'd write the same papers to the president to take it out. And the next year Thurman would put it back in again. And after four years of that, I was like, okay, I'm done. So done. So done. I'm not writing this paper one more time. So you're writing budgets and you decide, I need something where there's, I really need to do something that make where I can make something do something and I can see the results of it fast. And so can you just tell me, how do you go from, I mean, I've read about it and I've watched you talk about it. But still the leap from working in that very corporate job to running a store is such interesting leap. What made you, what gave you the courage to make the leap? How do you make that career change? I know I was done with working in the government. Yeah. And I was, when I lived in Washington, I taught myself how to cook. I used to just for fun by old houses, renovate them and sell them and actually I was going to business school at the same time. I don't know, I did any of that. And I knew I was either going to go into real estate or the food business and I just didn't know which one. And then this ad showed up in the New York Times and I came home that night and Jeffrey, I said to Jeffrey, I really need to find something else to do. And he said, just pick something fun. Pick something that you think you'd love doing and if you love it, you'll be really good at it. And I was like, funny, you should mention it. I saw an ad for the business for sale in a place I'd never been. It was a specialty food store. And he said, let's go look at it. Wow. I mean, what an incredible guy. He was, it was in a place that he didn't live. He was working for the secretary of state. It would basically blow up our lives. And he said, just go, go look at it. You have now a business employees and you have to learn very quickly how to be a boss. Yeah. Right? And so what, you know, how would you describe yourself as a boss? I always wanted to be the boss that I wanted to have myself. And so I'm very collaborative. I think in the beginning, I was probably too collaborative. Like, what do you think we should do here? What should we do there? And as I got better at it, somebody actually gave me, a friend gave me the advice, your employees need two things from you. They need you to be clear. And they need you to be happy. And from then on, I would say, I need these candies bagged and I need them wrapped up like this. And if I was having a bad day, I would just disturb the energy in the room. I mean, sometimes I have 50 or 100 employees and they'd all be like, what did I do wrong? But it had nothing to do with them. So I would just walk out of the store, I'd walk around the block, come myself down and come back happy. And it was, I think that was the best lesson I ever had for business. Do you, how do you give feedback or criticism? I'm very clear about two things. If I'm criticizing you, I'll take you out of the room and discuss what you can do better. If I'm complimenting you, I'll do it with everybody around. But I never come. Who do you think you need? Don't you? I think compliments with everyone around is a huge thing that people forget to do. Yeah. I think they actually do the opposite quite a bit. They criticize with everyone around and they compliment privately. Yeah. And if I have to fire somebody, I'm always worried. What are their, what are their colleagues going to say? And, you know, I usually give them a lot of warnings, find what they have to do better. And at the end of the day, it doesn't work. I fire them usually in a way that makes them say, thank you and kiss me when they, like, this isn't the right job for you. But that could be the right job for you. And then I call everybody together and that works for me. And I say, I need to explain to you what happened. Why this didn't work out with that person? Because I'm so worried that their colleagues are going to be mad, mad that their friend is gone. And 100% of the time they're like, oh, such a pain in the neck. We hated working with them. I'm so glad you fired them. Right. So it turns, it always, but you need, need that communication. It's, it's, it's, and it's a kind of on the job learned skill because to your point, I think we're going to make a huge generalization here. But sometimes a lot of women are good collaborators. So we figure out like, I think the best way to be in charge here is to make sure everybody's voices are heard and I'm constantly collaborating until you realize that people are looking for direction, for direction. And I start with the assumption, everybody wants to do a good job. I just have to give them the tools to do it. I have to, I have to tell you one story though, the first, probably a month in when I bought Barefoot Contessa and there was, I think there was a cook and three people working in the store. And one of them was just dreadful. And they were all like 16 years old. And she was just, I mean, she had no vision. Like if I tell her to, you know, clean the counter, if there were 20 customers waiting, she'd be cleaning the counter. Right. I'd be like, she was just very sweet, but not very good. So I took her out in the back and I explained that, you know, I'm sure there are other jobs that are good at this isn't the one. And it was so gentle because I was so worried about hurting her feelings. Yeah. That the next day she showed up for work again. She didn't know she'd fired. She didn't know she'd fired. And the worst part is I couldn't do it again. So she stayed for the whole summer. I've gotten better than that. I could see that happening too. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for the feedback. I'll see you tomorrow and I'll know what have I done. Barefoot Contessa, when you opened the store, what was the stuff that you were trying to sell there that spoke to people who were wanting real food? Well, you know, I had to learn it. Yeah. I thought this is an expensive store. It's very expensive to make specialty foods. I'm in the Hamptons. I'd never been there before. So I had an image of it being fancy. And so if I made, I mean, while we're talking about roast chicken, if I made roast chicken in the store, I take a huge white platter and I fill it with fresh herbs and then I put the roast chickens on it and then put them out. And nobody bought them. And I was like, okay, what am I doing wrong? I took the chicken back in the kitchen and I put all the chickens in little red and white paper cups like you would put French fries in and put them on the counter and they all sold. And I thought, oh, that's so interesting. People want really accessible food. They don't want fancy food because they're eating it at home. It's different. When you go to a restaurant, you want something that's interesting that you've never had before or takes a long time. At home, you want simple food. You want roast chicken, roast carrots and brownies. And what do you say? Really good ones, but really good ones. And they taste good when you make them. Then they're really good ones. But that is I think that I think it's just, it's like that thing that you capture with the cookbooks, your show, your podcast, this idea that you have everything you need. Like you've got it within you. It's very like, you know, Wizard of Oz or something, which is like, you've, it's been in you all along. You just don't know what they are. You just have to unleash it. Yeah. That's one of the things that I really wasn't prepared for when I started writing cookbooks is people sending me gifts. They kept sending me things. I'm like, why are they doing what? I mean, people were like making huge pots and that they threw themselves and sending them. Why are people being so nice to me? And I realized that it was, I wasn't giving them something like a cookbook. I was giving them the tools to make something for themselves and they would put it out and people would say, you made that chocolate cake yourself and they felt good about themselves. And that's, I think they wanted to thank me, which was so lovely. It was such a realization that it was, that it was, it just felt very generous. It was really nice that we're giving, giving people the tools to do something for themselves. People really attached to you, I know. That's really, it's really sweet. I mean, I think you remind them of someone in their family, I think. They feel exactly what you've taught them something. It's like teacher and mommy and, you know, Jedi master and like relationship goals and all that stuff. How does it feel to get all that love and attention from people? I mean, who wouldn't like it? I mean, sounds great. That's really, when they start throwing things we'll talk about. Yeah, sounds great. Dumbest question I've ever asked. Okay, I have a question for you. Okay, here we go. What's your favorite New Yorker cartoon? Oh my God. I heard you love New Yorker cartoons. I love New Yorker cartoons. I don't remember any of them. I really love them. But they're so good. Oh, no, I do remember. I knew you would. Okay, thank you for asking. And for anyone under the age of 55, the New Yorker is a magazine. And you can read it in person and you flip through it like it's like a book with skinnier and flatter. And for those who forget, a book is a... It is a piece of rigatoni on the phone, calling somebody and saying, Fuseilli, you crazy bastard. I love that you were a food one because all of mine are food. My favorite one is a little pig sitting on the examining table on a doctor's office. And the doctor comes in with his clipboard and he goes, I have very bad news. It's your ribs. They're delicious. Do you ever enter those contests? No, I wouldn't have as clue how. It amazes me if people can write those things. Me too. No, and I mean, I write jokes for a living one could argue. And oftentimes I'll just be staring at the picture like stumped like, what do I say here? And it's so funny. It's just like, I guess, hey guys, what's going on? I actually just saw a card. It wasn't the New Yorker, but I just saw a card tune. It was two dogs coming up to the front door and there were two dogs answering the door. And one of the dogs, the ones arriving, said, you know, Cheryl said, life is short. We really have to smell the roses. And you saw that there was a mailbox and it said rose. So the dogs inside were the roses. Life is short. We really have to smell the roses. Just started laughing. I couldn't stop. What do you like about the emergency? What do you like about the emergency? Play on words, the play on words. The intelligence behind it. Just like, what kind of a mind thought of that card tune? Life is short. We really have to go smell the roses. And they said, and here we are. Well, you know, I usually ask this question at the end, but I want to ask it now, which is what makes you laugh? What are you reading, watching? I can tell that you like to laugh. I do. My friends. I just, I don't tend to watch humorous movies or shows or things like that. I just, I love my friends have great sense of humor. And they just make me laugh all the time. Well, how important, you know, in being in your 70s, what are, what are female friendships mean to you? What are your friendships mean to you? Well, it's everything. Yeah. It's everything. I mean, I, I mean, Jeffrey's clearly my best friend, but women bring something totally different. And it's really connection. And actually, that's what I always thought that I was so pleased that I was in the food business because I could really work out the issues from my childhood and it was just wonderful. But when I started doing, be my guest, I realized when I was missing, really, is connection. And it's, that's been just extraordinary. I've made, well, your dear Frontina, I've made, made, I'm so jealous. You guys went out to eat. Oh, it was so much fun. And your friends with Julia Louis Dryfish. Julia, exactly. Congratulations. She's the best. Well, she not only is she the best, but she spoke to us before this podcast. She did. We got a question. Oh, she was the best. She was the best. Oh, yes. We talked to Julia because, oh, great. Yep. And so smart. Oh, my God. And she said the same thing about you. She said, you're really smart. Yep. Thank you. Smarties all around. And Tina, smart people. Smart, wonderful, talented women. But smart people, have a sense of humor, have the best senses of humor. Well, Tina has said this, which you can tell a lot about somebody by what they laugh at. Yeah. Although, that doesn't say much about me because I laugh at everything. But I'm just like to laugh. That's all. That's good. But you're right. Sense of humor is a sign of intelligence. And also, it's the way we just tell each other what we care about. So Julia, we spoke to Julia. She says hello. Well, she was wearing a giant sun hat and going through her refrigerator when we talked to her. And she had a question for you. She said, how are you so cheerful? And then she said, and what puts you in a bad mood. Has to aggressive people who tell you what you want to hear and do exactly as they please makes me crazy. And I can chew on them for years. I mean, say more about that. What do you mean? So like someone who plays kids, you know, well, we all know people that if we're if you're doing something with someone, you want to be collaborative. Let's just all figure out what the issues are, what we need to do. And then together, we'll make a decision unless, you know, unless it's my business. But, you know, just moving forward. And I don't like people that withhold information so that they control the situation because then I'm making a decision without the real information. I just find passive aggressive makes me crazy. Oh, I just, I mean, crazy. And you also asked what, how I keep my having my joy. I think that it needs to be nurtured. I think we're either born with a positive or negative energy. And I think about when I do yoga and my instructor says, what does she say? And you're inner smile. I think you either walk around with an inner smile or you don't. And if you don't, I think you need to just nurture it. And I feel like I was just born this way. My parents just said, I came out like playing with my toes and giggling. And it's, I think it's an important thing to do. I think it makes life easier. Yeah. It's really, I think it's really important. And yes, we've had extraordinary lives. But we also had difficult times. You have a, you talk a lot about it in your memoir. We've all had difficult times. And how you deal with it is, it's up to you. You know, if, if I may, you spoke about your late in life, would you say reconciliation with your dad? Like, how did that? Yes. Do you want to talk about it about it? You know, my dad was not a great dad. He was really tough and critical. But later on, he just, we were together at a, they were giving a party for me for my second book. So it was 2000. He was sitting with me and he said, said to me one sentence that made all the difference in the world. He looked at me and he said, I don't know what I was thinking. And it makes me cry just now. And that changed our whole relationship because he felt bad day about it. And he basically said, I'm sorry in that sentence. And then we went on, but my dad, I have to say, he was a tough dad, but he also gave me something when I was a child, all that was really important. He loved to talk through, he was a doctor, but he loved to buy real estate. So he would always talk through real estate deals and he'd say, come, come in my, in my study and talk through this deal with me. And so he taught me how to, you know, borrow money, go to the bank, borrow money. I credit him with a lot of, a lot of things that I've done that don't scare me because I'm used to talking about it that way. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's also such an example of like you have to be open to the idea of forgiveness so the early idea of letting things go basically, like it shows up in all different ways. It shows up in the way you are in relationship with your husband, which is like we just kind of don't sweat the small stuff. We just have to kind of like, you know, like love love each other through hard times. It's, it shows up in the way that you cook, which is when there's like a mistake or an accident or like an oopsie, it's like funny. It's fun. Yeah. It's not the end of the world. Yeah. Yeah. But then it becomes of course much deeper when it has to do with your family of origin and deciding like how much you're going to hold on to. And it doesn't mean you always forget. I mean, everyone wants to all have lunch with them and I go, can't believe I'm having lunch with this monster. But he wasn't them. He really had come around and, you know, but it's, you have to push that away. That's, that was then this is now. And you know, there's all, we fetishize, well, we fetishize as marriage, especially, you know, you know, cis, straight marriage. But we also fetishize children and people who have them and you don't have children. What is the best thing about not having children? Not be responsible for them. Not having teenagers. No. You don't want somebody who says, hey, you and not so much as the car and you try to lease yours out. Well, I mean, I don't think people, you know, there's all these studies buried people without children or the happiest people. Like, like, there's all these studies and everyone keeps going, well, they just haven't met my children yet, you know? But, I mean, it's amazing to me that I made that decision so young and that thank God, Jeffrey, it was okay with it. But I just can't imagine my life any other way. I've done it. Done what I wanted to do. I've had one, you know, just a wonderful time. I made very counter-cultural decisions for a woman of your generation. You really did. But maybe I'm just projecting, but I feel like, you know, when you were working and doing all these choices and making these big leaps and big swings, you didn't have as many women doing the same thing at the same time. I didn't have any. I really didn't have any. I didn't think of anybody that I know at that time who made the same choices. I really can't. And right now as a woman running an empire, that's not an empire. That's an empire. Okay. I want to call more women geniuses and I want to call more female business owners. I want to call more female run businesses empires. Empires are not just for men. Well, I just, I think the empire is having a thousand employees. I have two. You only have two employees. Actually, and a part-time office manager, I want to talk to you about this. This is incredible. Because you scaled down. I just, I want to walk across the lawn to the barn where I have people that I love and I want to cook all day. Did Tina ever tell you how she interviewed me at the Brooklyn Academy music? No, tell me about that. So she started and she said, you know, my friends think you have this perfect life. You get up in the morning, you walk across the lawn. You cook all day. Your friends come to come by to visit you. You go out for dinner. Your husband leaves on Monday. He comes back on Friday. And then she said, and I told, told my husband, I was, I told my husband, I was going to say this and he said, you know, I'm going to be in the audience when you say that, right? And she was kind of right. That's really what my life is like. It's just been great. So are you looking at it? Like you were hustling so much in the, you know, I did work. I did work really hard. Writing the memoir may be realized I worked really hard. What did you learn from your memoir? Well, well, I didn't know about your stuff. Well, my relationship to work. Like I think about it all the time. I'm always like troubling it because I get such a steam from work. Like I get a ton of self-esteem from work and I don't want to give that up. I also get a lot of self-esteem from parenting and being a parent to my kids. And like you, I feel like I desperately need connection with people in my friends. So all of those things and a lot of connection comes from work. But I don't know about you, but as I look ahead, it's just an interesting like what is our relationship to work to what is enough to, you know, what do we want to, how do we want to shape the third act of our life? And you are a life shaper. So what do you see the last? I don't think that far ahead. You don't. I just think, what do I want to do? If I know what I want to do today, and by the end of the day, I'm going to decide when I'm going to do tomorrow, it's all I need to know. It's kind of like my first book. I thought, my God, how am I going to write a book? Yeah. And I thought, okay, I don't need to know how to write a whole book. All I need to know is what recipe I'm going to test today. And then tomorrow I'll test another recipe. And somewhere along the line at the end of the line, I'm going to have a book. But I don't give myself overwhelming projects. I give myself manageable bites. Yes, I relate to that. It's just taking, I like to call it like, you know, like this season, you know, like I think about it in terms of seasons, because the idea of like, the next year is going to be filling the blank. That's overwhelming. It's overwhelming. When's your season? We're going to work on this. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? There's this great expression. I'm embarrassed to say I can't remember the name of who said it. It's from that top. I can look it up. JP Morgan, I think, I think it's JP Morgan is, go as far as you can see. And when you get there, you'll be able to see farther. But if you, if you map it from here to there, you're going to limit yourself. You need, you, you map it as far as you can see. And then when you get there, there may be other options you wouldn't have even thought of when you get there. So just, I just like to leave myself open to what things come along that was like, no, not interested. No, lose my number. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That's kind of interesting. Actually, come back here. Yeah. I mean, I think that's success. Success is being able to, I believe it. To work on. Well, I think it's a surprise. I mean, I don't want to do the same thing over and over again. Yeah. And when you were writing your memoir, how did you, how do you like to write? Never. No kidding. Is it writing the worst? It's the worst. I'm, people are always like, what are you doing? I'm like anything but writing. I'm organizing my closets. I'm, I'm, I'm making amends to all my friends, whatever it takes to not write. Okay. So fast, fast round. I know. Are you ready? Okay. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Best way to cook carrots. Roasted with olive oil, salt and pepper. And do you enjoy a feta on there? Yeah. I enjoy feta on anything. I put, sometimes I put feta and honey on my carrots, which probably, probably. Or balsamic vinegar, syrupy balsamic vinegar. So good. Because the sweet carrots and the vinegar are good. I like things that have an edge. Yeah. Vinegars too. I love a vinegar. Me too. Oh, Julia would want me to ask you this. How do you make, she's been making some sorbet. And she, it was very fancy. She's speaking of fancy. She had, she had made sorbet and then she scooped out a lemon and put it back in the lemon. Oh yeah. Yeah. And then she found her sorbet wasn't as creamy. It was icy more than creamy, any tips? She said she made it with sugar, water. Did she make it in an ice cream maker? Great question. Yeah, I don't know. Some recipes have you just freeze it and like a, almost like a granita. Yeah. And that's, that would be grainy. Yes. But if you make it in an ice cream, I, I, I'm not an expert on. I know. I don't really love desserts. I'm not making them. It's like a whole other world. Okay. A favor New Yorker cartoon. We got that. Was that on your list? Yes, but on my list, cause I heard you love New Yorker cartoons, but you bring it up. Oh my god. Oh my god. Okay. Can I tell you my other favorite ones? Yes, please. Dog sitting at the bar and the bartender walks over and he said, what can I get you? He said, I'll take a scotch and toilet water. Do you cook on Thanksgiving? Yes. I love Thanksgiving. Me too. It's just, it's like the best holiday. Because it's traditional things. You can make them better. And yeah. I love Thanksgiving. What's your new, like, what's something you make on Thanksgiving that people would be surprised is that you're table. Like, is there like, you know, a, like, huh? That on Thanksgiving? Well, you know, a couple of years ago, the New York Times asked me to do a store bought Thanksgiving. And I thought, who could ever do that? So I said, I don't think so. And then I started thinking about it. And I realized that if you could take a store bought an ingredient from the store and make it easier, wouldn't that be fabulous? So I went and got peppered fond stuffing mix and I made a bread pudding out of it, which was so good. It was crazy. So I have a lot of Thanksgiving things now, like, to get, like, you can actually get good mashed potatoes. But then I add sour cream and parmesan cheese and garlic. And it's just delicious and you have no idea that there's a store bought ingredient in there. Okay. Young chefs or food writers that you're into. I mean, I have a few people like Aaron French from Lost Kitchen. I love her. So, you know, like the other day she sent out a recipe. I'm like, oh, making that. But I don't really spend, she said nothing. It was something that was great. No, I can't move on to us. Do you ever watch TikTok or Instagram Reels or any of the young people that are cooking on there? No, Instagram, I love. And I just think, you know, if you're interested in gardens, you know, you see a lot of stuff on gardens, you have to be careful about not watching cute puppy things because that's all you ever get. Do you ever see all those, like, this, like, version of the macho guy who's like in the woods and cuts the meat and puts it on the grill? What are you watching? Come on over to my FYP, I know. Okay. I'm proud of files different from mine. I'm proud of those. I don't know how Jeffrey I know. I don't know how Jeffrey. Secret ingredient that makes things better. No, it's always something with an edge, like the Osamic vinegar or Parmesan cheese or Dijon mustard. Things that a splash of red wine and a big pot of lentils, it just changes everything. Yes. Anything. Lemon zest. Yes. When you, that's the other thing is it's really, I learned when I started cooking later, two things. One is, you know, sometimes my anxiety needed to go somewhere. You know, sometimes it just needs to land. Like, in your day, right, you have to, you're making a list of what you have to do for your kids or do for your work or whatever. And I found like, thinking about what I was going to make was a really nice way to put my anxiety in it. To sleep for a while. Yeah. The thing about Jeffrey was, he says, it was about me. Cooking is hard. And if it weren't hard, I wouldn't be interested in it. It's the challenge. Yes. And if you're doing something that's really hard, you just put everything else out of your mind. And I think that's one of the things I love about cooking. I mean, when I start, when I invite people over, I'm like, oh, this is going to be so much fun. And they're like, and then I'm like, what did I invite you? Oh my God. Everybody relates to that. Everybody relates to that. Exactly. Oh, shit. Oh, feeling. And I just want to say you brought up a lemon zest. And I will say that for people who are learning how to cook, I would say reward yourself with a tool. A zester. Because when I got a zester, I was like, look at me. Yeah. Look at me with the best. It's not the best. I was like, and I would just take it out. And you're just like, look at this. Because you know, sometimes we need a little treat at the end of our learning. And get yourself a zester. And don't keep it forever. Oh, really? Yeah. You can't sharpen it like a knife. It gets chapter a couple of years. Get a new one. Throw it right in the ocean. Okay. Okay. Anything you refuse to cook? Like anything you're like, no. It's so funny. We were just talking about this the other day. Really? I was with a friend. And we were talking about what our mother's used to make. It was like Monday. It was one thing. Two say it was something else. That's a tough one. Tongue was on her list and liver and onion was on her list. Oh, never. Never. Never need to cook either one of them. But also things that are really complicated like, you know, I don't know, this, I mean, like weabass, a really good weabass takes forever. And so I don't know what a bouillabase actually is. It's a fish stew. Okay. Which I never, Jeffrey doesn't like. No, no, no. I made, I made a fish stew. It was the only thing I ever made that he didn't like. Okay. It was terrible. But that's not considered a bouillabase. It wasn't a bouillabase. A good bouillabase literally cooks for days. Got it. Yeah. And it's good bones and the heads and the stock and all that stuff. I mean, the idea of like making your own stock to me is, I mean, that's just like a level of, there's just certain levels where you think like, maybe someday I'll, I'll do that. You're going to come, come visit me. Oh, yeah. And we're going to make chicken stock and you won't believe how easy it is. And what an incredible difference it makes. You take a big pot and you put like 10 things in it and you cook it for four hours. I love something that you can cook forever and forget it. Forget it. Just think of it. I leave the house. I come back. It's fine. That was the thing about why everyone got into sourdough during the COVID is because everyone was like, it takes three days. Anyone was like, I need something. That's exactly what I don't want. Do bay leaves do anything or is this some kind of conspiracy? It was so funny. David Remnick that the New Yorker and I had a long conversation about this. That's me. You're not ready to, my guess is that fresh bay leaves can make a difference. There's like an undertone that you can taste. Bay leaves that have been in your spice drawer for 40 years. I don't think so. And also fresh bay leaves. Like that's one needs to plan ahead. Like when you see a thing that says fresh bay leaves, it's like, I'm out. I mean, actually, it's true. Like sometimes in recipes, you're all be chugging along and then you see something. You're like, you know what, I'm out. Yeah. I just can't get fresh bay leaves. That's why when I'm writing a recipe, I always say to myself, um, as somebody when I'm doing a book, as somebody going to look at the photograph and go, that looks delicious. Look at the recipe and go, I actually can find all those ingredients in the grocery store and it's simple in us for me to make. Yes. And that was like from my first book to the one I'm working on now. It has to be all those things. It has to be. If you see, you know, like you see, um, an ingredient you've never heard of before, is that like an alcohol or is that like a spice? I have no idea. Absolutely. And then you also have that ingredient in your, in your cupboard for years to come and it mocks you. You're like, why did I buy Zatar? I'm never going to use this again. I'm full of the spice. I was thinking of it. Wow. I was like, oh, I'm never going to use this again. And I see it every time I open the thing. Okay. And then the last question is, um, and apologies for my language. But, um, have you heard, did you want to the white lotus? I'm not all that sorry. Well, there's this term that's happening right now like where she has a country bob. And you're sorry. I'm sorry. I apologize. But, um, you've had a bob for a very long time. You've rate hair. Thank you. And, um, you have a very sharp, it's gone different lengths, of course, in life. A little bit. But what do you enjoy about having a bob? Do you, are you aware that you're very untrained? Very untrained. Untrained? Oh, no, I have no idea. Everyone's getting a bob. Do you know when I first got that haircut? I was 25 years old. I lived in Washington. I had hair all the way down my back. And I had heard a friend of mine went to a salon at the Watergate. And it was run by a man, Savamaloo, who had just come to the United States. And she had a bob. And I went right to him and I had him cut my hair like that. And he never changed it. It's been the same haircut since I was 25. I've tried it every once in a while to try something else and I'm going, no. I'm going right back to where it started. It's a perfect bob. But now, I mean, everyone is going for it. It's so funny. Every, every, every Gen Zier is cutting their hair. And also, you know, it's like feeling very brave while they do it. Well, you have a bob, right? Which is great. I mean, I kind of, I'm at the point where my hair just kind of cuts itself. Like it just doesn't really. It doesn't really grow that long. Oh, that's really interesting. Yeah. The French always say that if your hair is short, it shows your ensemble better. That if your hair is long, it's not the right profile. How much time do you spend in France as much as possible? Yes. And do you speak French? Mm-hmm, badly. Mm-hmm. Enough to deal with the green grocer. Oh, you do. Yeah. And they'll speak it back to you. Yeah. Did you take lessons? No. You just from being there. I mean, from high school. From high school French. Yeah, yeah. Do you, I dream that someday I'm going to live there and full time and go to Berlin, but it hasn't happened yet. Well, you never know. You never know, because I know the one thing I've learned is like, there's just the sky's the limit. Mm-hmm. I mean, and I feel like that is really like the theme of a lot of what we talked about today is just that there is, there, there's no reason. Why, there's no, there's no timeline as to when things are supposed to happen in your life. You get married really early, you start your business later, you're writing a memoir at this age. There's all these different ways in which you're just deciding what you want to do next. And like, you're the architect of your own life, basically. Yeah. Yeah. And do it now. Don't wait. Yeah. I think a lot of people say, well, you know, first I'm going to do this and then I'm going to do what I really want to do. Do what you really want to do now. And thank you so much for the presents for the strawberries, for the Prosecco, for the fake chicken. I feel like, Bowser with gifts. Someday I'll make you a real chicken. I can't wait. Okay. Thank you so much for coming. It was so much fun. It was really fun. Thank you. Thank you so much, Ina. That was so great. What a great conversation. And I loved talking to you. And, you know, I hope that this episode gets you hungry. I know it did me and it made me think about all the stuff I want to go home and cook. And so for this polar plunge, I just wanted to share something that I like to cook. My recipe, kind of a go-to recipe that I do a lot, which is just a very kind of simple chicken curry. I get chicken breasts with bone and chicken breasts. And I put it in a pot with some rice, chicken stock, a bunch of curry. Coconut milk. Sometimes I'll throw in some chickpeas, throw in some parsley, make it look green, put it in the oven, slow cook it, and that shit's amazing. Okay. You look like a million dollars. You can, you know, you want to brown the chicken first, right? You want to brown it in a pan first. Then you put it in with the uncooked rice. You put whatever it is to two cups of rice, so whatever it is, three cups of chicken stock. Put some coconut milk in, put it in tons of curry, put it in the oven. Three 75 for like an hour. Keep checking it, stirring the rice if you need to. You take it out, you put it on the table, people think you're a genius. You can serve it from the pot. You can serve the rice, take the chicken, and Bob's your uncle. So that's my chicken curry. You can tell how I don't have a cooking shell because I'm not great at explaining it, but you get it. You get it. You can do it. I believe in you. Alright, thanks for listening. Bye.