Shift Your Mindset & Grow Your Success with Carrolee Drummonds

This is Women Road Warriors with Shelly Johnson and Cassie Ticcaro from the corporate office to the cab of a truck. They're here to inspire and empower women in all professions. So gear down, sit back and enjoy. Welcome. We're an award-winning show dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights. No topics off limits on our show. We Power Women on the Road to Success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need. I'm Shelly. And I'm Cassie. Have you ever had a dream that just seems so distant it can't possibly be real or attainable? Many women, including business owners, often face this. It takes resilience, determination, a belief in yourself and flexibility to achieve what you really want. Carolee Drummondz knows this all too well. She helps people make their dreams and goals tangible and attainable. She talks about things like pivoting to purpose and perseverance. She's the host of the Be More Mindful podcast where she helps new and aspiring entrepreneurs shift their mindset to grow and market their businesses. Carolee is an award-winning speaker, writer and content marketing consultant with over 15 years of experience. As principal consultant at CMCG, she helps experts and consultants become magnets to their ideal clients using the power of Other People's Podcasts, or OPP. Beyond her work as a marketer, she's an active volunteer in her community, serving on several nonprofit boards and founding the Caremore Initiative, an annual award given to a nonprofit that provides them with creative and fundraising services. The initiative is provided over $60,000 in services since 2022. Carolee is the GPS people and businesses need to succeed. That's why we decided to feature her on our show. Welcome, Carolee. Thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much, Shelley, for that fantastic introduction. And I'm super excited to be here. Oh, you're very welcome and it's so deserved. You've done a lot of stuff. No kidding. That's impressive. Like, holy smokes. Yeah. The pivot part. Yeah. Oh, gosh, there's so much pivoting people have to do today. And, you know, you inspire so many ladies, Carolee. We were so excited when you reached out to us to be on our show. I wanted to give our listeners a chance to get to know you first. What's your background and how did you get started in this inspirational journey? Oh, my goodness. So first and foremost, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't say that I was actually born on the sunny island of Jamaica. And I do think being born there, raised there until I was 10 years old, it impacted me tremendously from my love of storytelling to my love of people. And this idea that anything is possible, because I'm from this tiny little island in the mountains, where we herded goats and sheeps and cows and all the things, and got dropped in the middle of one of the biggest cities in the U.S. in Boston, Massachusetts, and had to figure it out. Wow. That's huge change. It was huge. So that was probably the first pivot for sure. But yeah, I fell in love with storytelling because it really was a way for me. It was a window for me to learn this culture. I went from, obviously, one very particular type of culture into a whole new world. And for me, it was movies, books, anything, music, anything that kind of got me to understand Americans a bit more. And of course, you're 10, 11 with a funny accent, you get teased. So you're trying to become more American, so you lessen the teasing bit. But through that, I fell in love with all things media. And so that's what I went to college for. Well, I was an English major for two seconds, switched out of that. I'm telling you, pivot literally, I've been pivoting for my whole life. So storytelling for me, after I finished my undergraduate degree, it was really what I wanted to do. I wanted to go into public relations specifically in the music industry. But I graduated in the middle of a little thing called the recession. Yeah. So not the recent one that was kind of sort of a recession, but like, no, like the real, like, big one where everyone freaked out and there were no jobs and all the things. So I ended up pivoting again from what I thought I was going to do into healthcare, the complete opposite. If there could be anything that was the opposite of the glitz and glamour of entertainment, healthcare and project management would be that. And so I worked in project management for different types of companies for a while and transitioned from project management into corporate relations and doing a lot of that work for higher education institutions. More recently, or the last one I did that for was at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT. And all the while working and doing those things, I was on the side, building out a thriving graphic design and marketing side hustle, if you will. So from like, 2008 until most recently, I was a graphic designer. But folks didn't know that in my day job until they did. And then that kind of shifted what my jobs became because they wanted to, of course, take advantage of someone who could do all the things. I could write, I could do graphic design, I could do some web design, I could do all these different things. And so my last job in corporate was being over partnerships and so connecting people, again, storytelling, helping corporations tell better stories that actually impacted the communities that we lived in and the world at large, and the way that they wanted to. And so once I transitioned out of that world, I pretty much decided I didn't want to go back. And in the middle of that decision was a pandemic. So I got let go two weeks before the pandemic actually happened, like became like worldwide. And then I decided three months after that that I wanted to move from Massachusetts to Texas, a state that I had only been to once. I wanted to move to a specific town that had never been to had no friends, no family, no nothing. And it came here and realized, okay, maybe I should find a job, looked for a few, couldn't find it was still doing things on the side and then decided. After some time being here that I wanted to take this opportunity to bet on myself and build a business on my own. Keep in mind that I knew no one had no connection whatsoever in this new place. And so, you know, the glamorous life of sleeping on an air mattress with an empty apartment that echoed, because there was literally no furniture. Though what that's like. Right. And with a dream of like figuring this thing out and building it out. And after two years, I'll spare all the gory details. After two years of just like white knuckling it, I built a multi six figure business. Wow. Oh, there's a pivot coming again. And I was living my quote unquote dream. I was this graphic designer that now was leading this creative agency with these phenomenally talented people working with small businesses. But I was not eating well. I was not exercising. I was incredibly stressed out. I started having heart palpitations and chest pains. I found out that I was pre-diabetic and I am 130 pounds soaking wet. So those two things don't typically come together. Right. And so I decided in the middle of last year that I was going to shut that entire operation down. It was the hardest decision that I ever had to make in my life because I had to let go of, you know, my entire team, save one. And like even now I'm getting emotional about it. Just saying that and starting over again. And so I am now in the middle of building a new business. The one that you mentioned helping, you know, underrepresented subject matter experts with podcast pitching and content, et cetera. I'm finally, there's no pivoting coming like tomorrow, but given my life, they're more than likely will be. But for now I'm very, very happy, very, very content. And I feel just like I'm in the best place that I've been in a few years. Oh, and I forgot, married the guy that I met at my first networking event in Texas. Oh, wow. So it's kind of like a Hollywood movie in many ways, you know? I love it. So you do know how to pivot. A lot of people don't, you know. Human beings do like their security. They like things the same. The fact that you kind of had to acclimate and get used to pivoting, that kind of gave you an edge, didn't it, Carolee? It absolutely did. And I'll be honest, for whoever it is, because there are definitely a lot of people who are teaching or speaking on pivoting. And they make it sound so sexy and like, ten ways to like, listen, it's painful. It's not fun. And you don't become an expert at this thing. You just learn to deal and make the best out of all situations. You become a forced optimist because that's not my natural go-to. Like everything's going to be okay. No, that's not how I'm like naturally, but I've had to become that in order to survive. So for sure. So with optimism, something that is one of the key elements for not only business, but people in general, when they're trying to accomplish something, I mean, it's hard to be optimistic, especially when you hear, well, if you watch the news, it's like, if it bleeds, it leads. Danger, danger, danger, you know? No, I think for me, when I mentioned in my email to you guys that I believe that resiliency can be taught, I do also believe that optimism can be taught. I think that belief in itself, right, because it doesn't, you don't necessarily have to be optimistic. You don't have to be optimistic to believe, if that makes sense. You don't have to think things are rainbows and butterflies to believe in it, right? Entrepreneurship is messy. Yes, it can be. Building out something from scratch is messy. I see it as almost like agricultural. Like you go and you're in the dirt, it is not pretty. To plant things into, till the soil and to get things ready, you're getting your hands dirty. You're literally, you know, knee deep in dirt. And you're giving it all you've got to plant this thing and to water it and to be back out there. It takes all this work, but then you start to see the little thing that pops out of the soil and you're like, wow, okay, something happened, something is working, right? And it is up to you, and this is the part, the belief part, right? It is up to you to decide what those little pops are, right? Some people need a huge thing to happen for them to believe. I think resiliency is being able to find those pops in the most obscure and sometimes hard to like see places. Meaning you can have a week where your lights are shut off or your car gets re-bowed or whatever the case is, like really bad things, right? Resiliency is saying, well, at least I have my two legs. Do I need to go somewhere that I probably would have to drive before? How else can I figure this out? What else can I do to get to that same place, right? What else can I do to make more money so that I can buy another car or do the things, right? It is not being optimistic to the point of like not seeing the reality, but it's choosing to focus on and seeing those little pops that come into your life. The little light that comes in the middle of the darkness and it's hard. It is not easy, but it can be taught. You can do that. Stay tuned for more of Women Road Warriors coming up. Now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Learn more at truckingmovesamerica.com Please check out our podcast at womenroadwarriors.com and click on our episodes page. We're also available wherever you listen to podcasts on all the major podcast channels like Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon Music, Audible, you name it. Check us out and bookmark our podcast. Also, don't forget to follow us on social media. We're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube and other sites. And tell others about us. We want to help as many women as possible. Have you ever had a dream that felt so far out of reach that it almost seemed impossible? You're not alone. So many women, especially entrepreneurs, wrestle with that feeling. But here's the truth. With resilience, flexibility and a whole lot of belief in yourself, those dreams can become reality. And as the guest knows that firsthand, Carolee Drummond's is a powerhouse when it comes to helping people turn big goals into real, actionable wins. She's all about pivoting to purpose and pressing forward with perseverance. Carolee is the host of the Be More Mindful podcast, where she helps new and aspiring entrepreneurs shift their mindset, grow their brands and market their businesses like pros. She's an award-winning speaker, writer and the brains behind CMCG, where she teaches experts how to attract their dream clients using the power of other people's podcasts. And when she's not helping people shine in business, she's out in the community making a difference through her Care More initiative. Carolee, you really open up a lot of horizons for people in businesses with your strategies. So it's a matter of being able to look at the possibilities through the fog, right? For sure. And some people are stuck in, there's some people who are just playing negative, negative nellies I like to call them. Oh, dear God, I know a few of those at work. Oh, and when you talk to them, you feel like you've been in a thunderstorm. It's like totally drenched. It's like, where's my umbrella? How do people live like that? And you wonder how they evolve. And it's easy to get sucked into that if you're around people who do that. That is a fact. And I realized to, I've gotten a lot, I have had a lot of loss that I thought were losses that ended up actually being for my benefit. And some of those losses were relationships with people. And what I've recognized is this journey, this tilling of the soil journey, right? You need people who are either going to get down in the, you know, the muck and whatever with you to be like, how you got it? I believe in you. I'm going to come in. I'm going to help you or someone who's going to come and give you a shovel or, you know, hey, here you go to make your work easier. Do the thing. Or they'll come in literally just give you seats. I needed to find my village. People who were not only going to believe in me and what I was building, but maybe they're building their own stuff. Right. And so they have a certain level of belief. They have a certain level of optimism. Dogged optimism when things don't necessarily look the best. And I was hurt when I lost those friendships. But what I recognize is when you are in the middle of those challenges, you really do need, like you said, a community of people who are not going to just be thunder and rain on all of your dreams. You need people that are going to be there with you. And that has been, I think, 2024 was that year for me in finding new communities and finding people who were on their own journeys. And it's been life changing, not just my business, but for me as a person to not feel so alone. Where do people find their village? Sometimes it's super difficult, especially if you run into people who are naysayers. And there are a lot of people out there like that. They can say, oh, that's never going to work. And a lot of it may be because they're jealous, because they'd like to be doing that or they don't really want you to succeed. To find somebody who's genuine, who's really going to work with you and be your champion. It's been in a bunch of different places. I started my business and grew it from going outdoors. Texas was never really closed down in the pandemic. They apparently didn't believe in COVID. But we were outside. And so I met a ton of other business owners at the time. And a lot of them were also new entrepreneurs. And so there was a natural bond of like, oh, what are you trying to do? What are you doing to build your business? What are you doing to try and kind of make things happen? And so that was my natural instinct because the internet is not really, I don't know, it's not my favorite place to be. And so that's not where I went to find community first. However, in 2024, I paid into a mastermind. It was my first paid anything as it relates to groups. But that has been another game changer because you're paying for something. It's not just like a free thing that anybody kind of goes to. You're paying for it and you know everyone else is there paying for it. You're taking the building of your business seriously. And so you're finding other people who are doing the exact same thing. They're taking the building of their businesses seriously. And so you're able to connect in a real way. So I would say for anyone who's looking for community, if you're not wanting to pay to have access to folks that are kind of going through the same thing you're going through, think about the things that really let you up. Think about the things that you enjoy and try to find those spaces, whether that is going on event bright and looking for those things. There are plenty of groups on LinkedIn and on Facebook that start online but build in person, which is always my go to of like taking the group chat off the internet and bringing it into real life. So I would say kind of one of the biggest things is finding what actually lights you up and finding other people who find the same joy in the same things because then that's easier to build your community. And that's also you'll probably be more likely to find people who enjoy and are not going to be super negative about the thing that you enjoy. Sure. You know, it's magical when you can find people that are like minded who have information. I mean, there's so much to learn. Social media brings all of that to us and not everybody spends their time doing that. But when you think about it, the wealth of knowledge that we have available and networking with people who are so inspirational, it's powerful. I agree. I agree. And I when I when I shifted my mind. So I am in this weird sandwich generation. And I'm not using that term in the typical way that it's used now sandwich generation technologically is what I'm specifically referring to, meaning my generation like the elder millennials. I was like the car itself. We knew life without social media. We knew connecting in real life in the real world without social media. We also grew to understand how to build community online because Facebook and MySpace and all that came into being when we were in college and like all the things. So I as much as I don't enjoy social media overwhelmed like right now, it's just it's it's a lot. We spend a lot of time online specifically on social media. And I I miss those days when there was a little bit more balance. Right. And so for me, that's how I try to live my life. I have groups that I have an accountability group with women that are not none of them live in my area. They're all mostly on the East Coast. And you know, we're starting a book club with women again that are going to be some here locally and others that are elsewhere on zoom. I have my small group with my church that's local. You just you have to find a balance. And I'm always whenever someone asked me that question, I'm always going to go back to like touch people like go outside. Yeah. And because online is fantastic. It's fantastic to learn. But we are social human beings and we can't forget that. And I think we are. I think you have an advantage because you had a combination. You know how to relate to people in real life, you know, rather than behind a device. I still don't understand people sitting at a restaurant and they're visiting, but they're not. They're eating their meal and they're looking at their device. So they're not interacting or maybe they're even texting the person across from them. There's no sense to me. It's like really how about we just put everybody's phones away. We're losing something here, people. We are. My mom and I yesterday went out for a walk and we decided to stop in for a cup of coffee at this cafe that I've never been to just or as we went for a mocha half hot chocolate half coffee. And there's about, I don't know, maybe eight or 10 tables in this little cafe. And my mom and I honestly were the only ones that did not have their phones that were not looking that were that were actually engaging in a conversation and laughing. Everyone, it was like quiet and they're like, you just said, Shelley, they're also focused on their phones that they're forgetting who's sitting in front of them. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really, I don't know. And maybe I'm, maybe I'm just a weird part like, because I know people my age who are obsessed. Social media and they live their whole lives and they put their whole lives on social media. And I just, I'm so, so passionate about getting people and I do think there's a movement kind of anti the whole kind of social media bubble. Right. I actually created my own concept called anti social content marketing. That's actually why I got obsessive podcast because I feel like as much as it obviously is not in person, mostly. It's not so bite sized and like 30 second real, whatever you're genuinely like this, having real conversations with real people. And I, I miss that, right? It's just, for whatever reason, we've allowed technology that's supposed to be connecting us more to pull us completely apart. And you're seeing the impact of it throughout society. It's isolating and dividing, which is interesting. And with all of the social media that's out there, it's in bite sized content. People are now having the attention span of a net. Yeah. That's not the truth. So accurate. You know what's funny? I'm in the process of and I really, I'm going to send you guys one of the first copies. I'm in the middle of writing a book. Oh, excellent. And the macro part of the book, because it's not, it's going to be about podcast guessing, but I, I wouldn't be a caroly book if it didn't have larger implication of like, okay, society, my comments on society. And yes, it's going to be about podcasting, but here's the thing. When we think about how we relate to people, how we connect to people, how as a business we used to connect to our audience, right? Before we, it wasn't hard for us to think about a face of a customer. There are people who are marketing their business, who if you ask them, like, who are you marketing to, they'll rattle off, whatever. But it's not like a real person, right? We've lost this connection both as society, but even when it comes to how we do business, it's not people centered in like a real way anymore. And a lot of times you see on the internet, it's kind of the fake it till you make it. It's not real. There's a lot of like phony baloney stuff happening. And we have to address that in a real way. And I, I'm passionate about giving women the platforms to do that more, which is why I was like obsessed with your concept and wanted to be on your podcast because I think we're Twin Flames in that way. Like, I, I just want to do that more. So that book is going to be a comment on society and like, hey, so social media is supposed to be bringing us together and making us more connected. But it's actually doing the complete opposite of that. And there is a movement to combat that entire thing because it's not sustainable. Excellent. Where's this movement? We need more of it. I have to be the loudest one. I'm okay with that. There you go. So that is, that is coming. But that's the concept of the book is really connecting expertise to folks who need it. So folks who want to actually make the world a better place and create a real impact. It's going to be a playbook to do that in a world where we are increasingly more separated, divided. And yeah, excellent. Stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up. Dean Michael, the tax doctor here. I have one question for you. Do you want to stop worrying about the IRS? If the answer is yes, then look no further. I've been around for years. I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself. So now you know where to find good, honest help with your tax problems. What are you waiting for? If you owe more than $10,000 of the IRS or haven't filed in years, call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back. Industry movement Trucking Moves America Forward is telling the story of the industry, our safety champions, the women of trucking, independent contractors, the next generation of truckers, and more. Help us promote the best of our industry. Share your story and what you love about trucking. Share images of a moment you're proud of. And join us on social media. Learn more at truckingmovesamerica.com. Welcome back to Women Road Warriors with Shelley Johnson at Cathy Takarov. So many women, especially entrepreneurs, wrestle with chasing a dream that feels just out of reach. But here's the truth. With resilience, flexibility, and a strong belief in yourself, those dreams can absolutely become reality. Our guest today knows that better than anyone else. Carolee Drummond's is a true force. A woman on a mission to help people turn bold goals into real, measurable wins. She's all about pivoting to purpose and powering forward with perseverance. Carolee is the host of the Be More Mindful podcast where she supports new and aspiring entrepreneurs in shifting their mindset, building their brand, and marketing like seasoned pros. One of her signature ingredients? Untiring optimism. The fuel behind real success. Carolee's an award-winning speaker, writer, and founder of CMCJ, where she teaches experts how to grow their audience by tapping into the power of other people's podcasts. And when she's not in business mode, she's giving back through her Care More initiative. Carolee, in our previous segment, you were talking about a book that you're in the process of writing, which is talking about how disconnected we are and how we need to reconnect with our humanity. I think the timing is perfect because AI is growing and it's going to be very hard for humans to determine. Is it live or is it Memorex? That used to be one of the phrases many decades ago. Is this a person or is it AI? Yeah. I actually sent a picture to my daughter about this jello cake that I made last night, and she asked me, is that AI or did you actually make that? I'm like, what? Yeah. What's fascinating too is I feel like, especially because I worked in computer science and artificial intelligence as a layman. And so I saw front seat, front row, what was coming and understood what the folks that were creating some of this tech, what they really wanted, what they envisioned in the world. These are tools. I am not scared of artificial intelligence because they'll never be human. I think what happens is I'm scared of humans with artificial intelligence. Yes, the intent behind it. Exactly. Because learning how to utilize it to make your life more efficient, especially for work, so you can spend more time with real people, I'm all for that. If you can use it in a way that actually helps to move things forward, I'm all for that. I just know, like any other invention in human history, there's a back end, there's a backside to that. And technology, we forget, it's all code. And there was a person who wrote that code. And depending on that person's ethos, you can get to some serious issues. And there are tons of folks who are beating that drum, who are a lot more smarter, they're smarter than I am in that field because they're engineers, they're folks that are in the field and seeing that there isn't a lot of checks being made for. Is this thing potentially harmful to a particular group of people? Is this thing harmful for some, could it be used by a dictator somewhere to do some seriously harmful things in the future? We are not thinking about those things as it relates to tech in a macro level yet. But we need to, there's no doubt. We absolutely need to. I think that's where my concern comes. It's not necessarily the tech itself. I think it's fantastic. All this innovation and how fast technological transformation is happening is incredible. But the checks and balances, there is no checks and there is no balance. Or there are no checks and there is no balance. So, yeah, that makes me nervous. Me too. Technology, the way it's evolved, it really is amazing. And it's exciting. Of course, I've always been kind of a techno freak. But there are things that have to be looked at, no doubt about it. And human beings need to be in control. This needs to serve humans, not dominate them, and certainly not having someone, person who's the programmer, who has nefarious intent. That's a very bad thing. So, your message, Carole, was what you're doing in the book you're going to be writing. It's very appropriate. You're trying to bring the humanity back and give people their power, perseverance and pivoting. You have some great philosophies here. Thank you. It has been an incredibly challenging couple of decades. Oh, yeah. It's been different, that's for sure. Yeah. I think that in retrospect and in looking at it, I can put it into a different perspective and light now, but when I was going through it, in the middle of it, I don't think I had this kind of philosophical, like, oh, yeah, this is all for my goods. This is all for my goods. I was not. When you're living it, it's completely different. I was homeless for seven days, and I didn't call it a pivot, but now that you mentioned it, I guess it was. I stood there and I just, I made a decision. I didn't have a life plan. I didn't have a goal. All I knew was that my purpose in life was a lot bigger than what I was living, and I did not. My destiny, that's all I knew. My destiny did not involve looking at the face of Toothless Joe. That was standing beside me telling me, oh, yeah, this is great. So, and it's funny that you said that because I literally pivoted because I went from looking at this Toothless Joe dude to turning around and walking straight to the hospital to get the help that I needed. And now that you mentioned it, it was a pivot. The most transformational moment of my life came down to that one pivot in my footstep, right? Which direction I was taking. Either I take a step towards Toothless Joe, or I turn the heck away and I turn around and I go the opposite direction, which I did. Thank God. So thank you. Well, that's incredible. I think if we, as human beings, I often hear, because I work with a lot of women, actually all of my clients right now are women, and most of them are women of color, but I hear a lot like, I don't know what I, I don't know that I have anything to say on a podcast for 45 minutes. Like, I don't know if I have, and I'm like, what? Okay. And so I asked the first question, okay, describe to me your experience in graduate school. And they're like, oh my God, you would never, and I'm like, that's a story. Sure. We all have these things in our lives that we've gone through, that we just don't, we don't see it for what it is. Every single one of us, it doesn't matter if you were homeless, or you grew up in a family with two parents and big, you know, big house, white picket fence, but behind closed doors, your mom was alcoholic, or your dad was abusive, or they loved you, but they just didn't pay attention to you. That's still having to be resilient. You have to learn how to love yourself and develop self-love that just wasn't given by a parent. Yes, you had all the trappings, but that's still resiliency. I think a lot of times, again, social media, and just like life, human beings and nature, we like to compare ourselves to other people. And so we all, we often do, you know, what I call, especially being a black woman, the oppression Olympics, is like, well, you know, I, you hurt and I'm hurt. Why does it matter? And why are we like trying to compare hurt right now? That's not really. So like trying to compare yourself to someone else and well, their life seemed a little bit hard or a lot harder than mine. I don't have a reason to complain. No, you had things that happened in your life that you had to overcome. And no, it didn't look like that other person, but do not discount your experiences at all. I think all of our stories are amazing. I honestly thought I was a hot mess for a very long time. It's like, what is wrong with you? I'm jumping from job to job all the, and when I look back at it is just like, I wasn't happy and I have a personality was like, if I'm not fully, fully fulfilled, I don't, I'm not going to sit in that and spend 20 years in an unhappy and uncomfortable situation. I, that's how I'm built, right? That's not everyone's story and that's okay. Like you are still pivoting and finding your way through your story. Nobody's story is less important. Exactly. Absolutely. So people are pivoting to purpose and I love that phrase. It's true. You're finding your purpose. I think that's kind of what we do from day one when we start crawling around on the floor as a toddler. We're trying to find our purpose. First, we have to find a way to get there and then you talk about perseverance. There's nothing more determined like than a toddler crawling around. It's like, I'm going to get there. I'm going to walk being able to still know how to grab that. I think life takes it away from us sometimes or we get lost. Yeah. It's my pastor calls it the comparison trap because like your baby, I don't, baby, you aren't walking around looking like, okay, well, he's walking a little struer than I am. Right. Yeah. It's just like, just happy to be here. Like, good. I can walk from here to there. Awesome. I'm excited. They're not looking around and we just been socialized to do that instead of running our own race. I'm definitely, like I said, it was out of necessity building that muscle. Right. And being so hyper focused online. Okay. What do you need to do? It also helps when you literally are by yourself in a completely new place and you have to depend on you. So looking around other people is not going to help you actually like pay rent, buy food. Comparison at that point is pointless. But yeah, it's, it is for me, my, my goal to have people romanticize their life in the sense that you are the hero in your own life and you have overcome so many things that might not look like someone else's or might not be fit for a quote unquote Hollywood movie or so you think, but it is still very much your story. And I enjoy, and that's what I started with. And that's what I'll end with. I enjoy talking to and hearing about other people's stories and helping them kind of see the value in all those little nuances that we tend to throw away. Like you, Kathy, being homeless for that point and not even realizing like that's a humongous pivot. Like your life could have been drastically different had you made a different decision. Oh yeah, it's built near those things in our lives that we kind of just discount because we forget or we just don't see them being this as big as they are. And I come along like, wait a minute, let's plop that up. Like let's go deeper on that where people are able to kind of just see that it's my life passion and I love doing it through the work I'm doing now, but also coaching and hopefully in the future as a author, etc. You're bringing out people's possibilities and purpose. Sometimes that's all it takes is a whole new perspective because I think people get kind of stuck, don't they? Absolutely. Absolutely. You're stuck in the same like story that you've told yourself. And then there, I feel like I am just starting to scratch the surface of my full potential. And a large part of that is because I had been holding myself back for fear of being found out. The imposter syndrome? Yeah. And the irony is because of that self, that story that I was telling myself, I worked 10 times, 20 times, 30 times harder. And was it incredible? Like the biggest overachiever ever known a man, right? In my childhood college, you know, early 20s. And I crashed and burned on that because there was no fulfillment at the end of it because I still felt like I wasn't enough. And going from all of these places all the time, things didn't start to click and I didn't start to really see all the things that I had accomplished, not just like the accolades and the awards, but like things that I had overcome until I paused and said, hey, you don't have to try to be anything you are, you are. There is no more striving to be you are. And that is the thing that I believe is a difference maker in any, any human life is when we stop trying to strive to be what we think we need to be and just be. That's powerful. It sounds super simple, but it's one of the hardest things to do because of all the messaging that we get thrown our way and what we have been, you know, the older you are, the harder it is to get there. Because you've been programmed to not see yourself as enough, especially as women. You know what I mean? We got clothes, weight, you name all the things until you realize like, man, you know, I came into this world, butt naked with this nose, with this skin, with these feet, like this is how I was made. There must be a reason I am okay. Exactly how I am. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And social media definitely does not tell us that. You know, it's like, why would space aliens want to even come visit the earth? Because especially the females, they're just so imperfect and they must smell bad because they have to use antiperspirant in this and that is like, what's going on here? You know, we're being told all these things we have to do to be perfect and there's no such thing as perfect anyway. So, Carolee, where do people find you? You've got a podcast. I know ladies are going to want to listen to that. Absolutely. We have two seasons of the Be More Mindful podcast. So, especially if you're an entrepreneur, but even if you are not, that podcast is specifically about the being of the entrepreneurship journey and not the doing. So, we don't necessarily talk about marketing strategies and branding and all the things. We literally are helping people through the journey of being a business leader and a business owner. So, that's that one. But CaroleeMore.com is where you'll find all of my stuff. If you are interested at all in podcast guesting as a strategy at all, there is a guide, it's a free guide. You can grab that. But beyond that, please be on a lookout for the book that is coming out. We have a podcast pitching society, Facebook group. And so, pretty much, if you start at CaroleeMore.com, all the things are there and you'll be able to find everything else from that. Excellent. And we carry your podcast, Be More Mindful on women road warriors that's on our network page, our power network page. So, there are a lot of options. People can listen to you and Carolee More, that's spelled C-A-R-R-O-L-E-E-M-O-O-R-E.com. Correct. Yes. Excellent. So, businesses can reach out. Do you also answer questions? Just ladies maybe wanting to reach out and say, hey, what are your thoughts on this? Absolutely. Absolutely. You can follow me at, you know, this is the problem. I got married almost a year ago and I'm changing things over on social media. I'm pretty sure it's still at CaroleeMore. LinkedIn, Facebook, I'm not on Instagram that much, but you can find me. And I am very open to real conversations. I'll hop on a Zoom in a second to like see you, hum and chat. So, if you're interested in even talking about resiliency as like, how do you build that? More than happy to continue that conversation. That's so important. People really need resiliency today. Yes, they do, especially more and more as time goes by. Oh, yeah. I think especially after the pandemic, people really started thinking about it, you know? Yeah, well, I've got different. Oh, life was crazy. It's like, what the heck is going on here? And it's not something anyone had dealt with in the 20th or the 21st century. Well, maybe the early part of the 20th century, but yeah, not in the 21st for sure. Yeah, for sure. So, thank you for what you're doing, Carolee. You're a breath of fresh air. Thank you so much for having me, ladies. Yes, thank you. This has been a great interview and you've got a great message. Keep it up and we can't wait to see your book and maybe bring it back and we could talk about your book. That would be fantastic. I'm going to hold you to that. Sounds good. Absolutely. Sounds good. Yeah. Thank you, Carolee. We hope you've enjoyed this latest episode. And if you want to hear more episodes of Women Road Warriors or learn more about our show, be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com. And please follow us on social media. And don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. On our website, we also have a selection of podcasts just for women. There are a series of podcasts from different podcasters. So if you're in the mood for women's podcasts, just click the Power Network tab on womenroadwarriors.com. You'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to. Podcasts made for women. Women Road Warriors is on all the major podcast channels like Apple, Spotify, Amazon, Audible, YouTube and others. Check us out. And please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.