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Vance, who was going to release a book about converting to Catholicism in two months, taking his turn in the ring against Pope Leo after Donald Trump managed to anger religious leaders inside his own political coalition. Vance lobbed shut up and dribble like insults at the pope by suggesting the pope stick to the moral stuff. I certainly think that in some cases it would be best for the Vatican to stick to matters of morality, to stick to matters of what's going on in the Catholic Church and let the President of the United States stick to dictating American public policy. But when they're in conflict, they're in conflict. I don't worry about it too much, Brett. I think it's a natural thing. I'm sure it'll happen in the future and it's not that big of a deal that it happened in the past. Really? Because that's the same JD Vance who said this six months ago. I think the most important principle that we have got to remember is you do not, you do not have to completely kick God out of the public square, which is what we've done in modern America. It's not what the founders wanted. It's not good for the United States of America. And anybody who tells you it's required by the Constitution is lying to you. It would be insane and crazy and a dramatic about face, but we do always have to remember that that is the person who now works for a guy he once called, quote, America's Hitler and quote, cultural heroine. New York Times reports this. Pope Leo quote has a native fluency in American politics and culture and his leadership is supported across broad swaths of the American church. Pope Leo has growing support from conservative Catholics and pews across the United States. As the anniversary of his election approaches next month, he has so significantly rebuilt the Vatican's relationship with the American Catholic right that many in Donald Trump's own camp rushed to the Pope's defense on Monday. And if the attacks against the Pope are not enough, Donald Trump's posting of an AI image of himself as Jesus Christ was indeed the straw that broke the camel's back for some Christian leaders. One conservative writer who attended JD Vance's Catholic baptism offered this blistering criticism in the Wall Street Journal, quote, not saying Trump is the anti-Christ, but he's radiating the spirit of anti-Christ. No question. And even a founder of Pete Hegsess Protestant denomination called Trump's image, quote, blasphemous. The outrage is also widespread among rank and file American voters. Watch. What do you make of this? Personally, it's disgusting. I talked with my wife about it earlier. I mean, Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. And that right there is, I mean, that's, I don't really have words for that. That's disgusting. As a Christian, how do you feel when you see this image? Offended. Yeah, I'm ashamed. I'm ashamed that he would actually do that. A man I voted for and trust. What do you make of this as a Christian? I don't agree with it, to be honest with you personally. If he truthfully boasted this, I don't really agree with it, honestly. Politics are one thing, but stepping into that area is a little bit different. You know, a little bit stings for me a little bit. Donald Trump failing to contain the outrage from some of his most important coalition members and some of his own voters is where we start today. With Media Matters for America, President Angelo Carasone also joining us, Democratic Pulsar and political analyst, Cornell Belcher. And then see a Butler's back with us. She is the chair of the religious studies department at the University of Pennsylvania. She's the author of the book, White Evangelical Racism. And the I start with you. This is one of those rare political stories that that isn't political at all. Right. Those three voters were Trump voters describing themselves as quote disgusted, quote, ashamed and and jolted. That third voter said, if this really was Donald Trump, this was Donald Trump. He owned up to it. He tried to tell those three people and all of his voters that he thought it was a picture of a doctor, which is frankly on the insanity metric, just as crazy, but also not not not credible even to his own voters. What do you make of the fact that this story is still sort of picking up Steve and picking up heat and breaking through to the American people? Thanks, Nicole. The story is breaking through because it's blasphemy. And, you know, you know it when you see it, right? And this is it. And I think that what Trump has done is basically, you know, it's worse than jumping the shark. He basically shot himself in the foot because you don't depict yourself as Jesus. But I also think that this is something that has been brewing for a long time. If you recall, he depicted himself a few months back as the pope. Right. He has a real problem with people who are authority figures who are also moral figures. And so the pope is probably the highest you can get on a figure of authority who also is a figure of morality. Right. So this is bothersome for him. But I think that the disdain and the disgust that people are feeling right now is that they're fed up with the trolling. This is like basically like a teenage boy doing stuff just to get your attention. But it's quite worse because it's the president of the United States who claims to be a Christian, who claims to have such Christian support. And he's completely eroded that support with these kind of antics. And I think yesterday when he took everything down, was somebody had to pull him aside and basically say, you know, you stepped in a big pile this time and you need to fix this. I mean, I will say one thing. When Bishop Barron, who is someone who has been very much a Trump supporter, says you need to apologize to Pope Leo. I think that's a moment where you have to take pause and say, even if your conservative Catholic clerics are saying you are wrong, then you are wrong. And moreover, you are absolutely out of pocket. Let me show you. Let me let let this speak for itself. This is from a 60 minutes piece over the weekend. And yeah. We're the three American cardinals that are actively serving dioceses right now. So we listen to a lot of people. It's part of the job description. And I think we're aware of the anxieties of people about the threats to peace at all different levels. This is a war of choice that we went to. And I think it's embedded in a wider moment in the United States, this worry, which is this. We're seeing before us the possibility of war after war after war. We're dehumanizing the victims of war by turning the suffering of people and the killing of children and our own soldiers into entertainment. Cynthia, that was specifically about the war with Iran. But what they're able to speak to, I think, so with so much authority and precision is that that we're seeing before us the possibility of war after war is coming from Donald Trump and Lindsey Graham. They're talking about doing Cuban necks like wars or things you do. And then they're also taking on this, the dehumanizing of victims of war by turning the suffering of people and the killing of children and our own soldiers into entertainment. Those are done in our name as the American people. U.S. taxpayers fund the propaganda videos made to inter-splice video game footage with war footage, which we now know in the conduct of the war. We bombed a girl's school in Iran. If not directly rebuking Donald Trump, I mean, what is this moment? You know, what is it leading to in your view? Well, I can tell you what it's leading to and Trump won't like it. It's leading to the closing of the ranks of the Catholic Church. That's number one. I think these three cardinals, Cardinal Shoupish, Cardinal McEmeroy, Cardinal Tobin, they are three very powerful cardinals in this country over New Jersey, actually also D.C., also Chicago. So there's a lot of things going on here. And I want to unpack this very quickly. One thing is, is that Cardinal Shoupish had already said back in March that this use of AI to make these kinds of images was terrible. And so if you think about all the imagery that's come from the war and then this imagery of Trump as Jesus, this is just going back to exactly what Cardinal Shoupish said, which is this gamification of suffering and the gamification of suffering is not correct. It is not right. First of all, second, what what they've inadvertently done is get everybody together and understand what just war theory is as opposed to these endless wars. You just war theory very plainly says you don't engage in war unless it's for the betterment of people. And you also have to protect the women and the children and innocent people in the midst of war. You go to war sometimes because you have to, but you don't do it for sport. What the Trump administration is trying to do is go to war for sport. And if we think about this in relationship to poly market and all of these things where people are betting on whether somebody is going to die or whether you pull somebody out of the desert or anything like that. This is so against Catholic teaching right now that this is bringing together the Catholic bishops in a way that nothing else has bought them together before. Before it was all about abortion. This time they're even coming together about this war where we couldn't get them all together about immigration. So I think that this is a very interesting moment that people are not really paying attention to because it's not just Leo. It's not just Pope Leo that he is having to fight himself against. He's having to fight against the Catholic bishops. And once you bring together these two groups, which have kind of been at odds with each other, basically back from Pope Francis. And now you're bringing them together. I think he's going to find a formidable opponent in terms of speaking out against the war, speaking out about against immigration and speaking out about this kind of gamification of war in every way. And the, let me let me read one more development to you. And then I want to bring Cornelangelo into this. This is Pope Leo's message today. Quote, God's heart is torn apart by wars, violence, injustice and lies. But our father's heart is not with the wicked, the arrogant or the proud. God's heart is with the little ones and the humble. And with them, he builds up his kingdom of love and peace day by day. Wherever there is love and service, God is there. It would be difficult not to wonder if the wicked, arrogant and proud include Donald Trump. Well, you know, as they say, a hit dog always hollers. And so I got to say it in the Texas way and just say basically, you know, what Pope Leo was quoting is basically the gospel of Jesus Christ. It's not anything any different than any Christian would know, Protestant or Catholic or Orthodox, for that matter. OK, so that's number one. What we're seeing here is this. And I want to state this as plainly as I possibly can. Whenever Pope Leo says something like this and doesn't say any name, it's a tendency for everybody to want to read this as about Trump or about the administration or about Vance or somebody else. He's not even addressing them directly. He is just addressing the truths of the gospel in a time that is very violent and virulent for many people. And I think that for the people that he's speaking to in Algeria and later on in this week in Angola and other places that he's going to in Africa, this is a really important message. But if that message is hurting President Trump and JD Vance and the Secretary of War and everybody else, then I would say that maybe they should search their hearts and understand what kind of Christianity they've been promoting vis-a-vis what the gospel says. Angelo, less people think this is just a conversation happening among the world's Catholics or here in this country, among American Catholics. This has broken through in a big way in media and politics. This is Jimmy Kimmel. This little detour into Messiah status did not get Trump the reaction he was hoping for from the Christian community. Overall, they're not on board with the whole false idols thing. And a lot of people were upset. So Trump or his team deleted the post, which is notable because his count almost never deletes his crazy post. Last week when he threatened to kill a civilization, that's still up. The Jesus post is down. So you know this one was trouble. I went and checked. It is true. The threat that may actually just the words of the threat alone, that threat may actually constitute a war crime that is still up. This one came down. Yeah. And I think that should tell you exactly where the winds are blowing here, right, because it was so significant for him to take action. And sort of it's very rare that he'd been backed into a corner. I mean, he never explains something, right? He always immediately goes on attack, attacks the people for not understanding his point. And I think that that is a real reflection of this larger thing that's taking place underneath it, because as you noted, it's not just Catholics. I mean, this happened and we shouldn't ignore the cumulative effect of a string of events that took place. Trump activated. They were already pretty active, but he activated a lot of Christian nationalists and evangelicals in this country in order to help support him with the Iran war by saying, look at this, this is the prophecy. I'm doing this for, you know, this is a holy war. God's on our side. So he was already trying to drag them into this and pull them into this. And they were going along a little, maybe some of the more enthusiastically. And a couple of weeks ago, we posted that video where that sort of, you know, reinforced that somehow he was that this was, you know, he was a prophet acting on behalf of God, this is a prophecy come to life. So he was taking parts of the evangelical community and they were willing to go along because it fit the story that they were pushing. But then he did something last week, as you noted, that post, it's more than just the theoretical war crime. It actually traumatized a lot of Americans. It was a very upsetting. It was scary. And then the president went out there and basically threatened to destroy civilization. He did explicitly to use nukes or something like it, to indiscriminately kill massive amounts of people in our name and were all sort of stuck, not just with the threat and hanging over heads, but the idea that there's this ticking clock around it and there's nothing we can do and our leaders aren't doing anything to stop it. And we have to sort of grapple with the anxieties of that. Everyone sort of dealt with that. And then, you know, and this had happened on the tail end of Easter, right, where he makes that comment about all I sort of deriding religion. You know, people are upset already because there's something very unsettling there. So part of this takes place in this cumulative effect where he gets up there and does this one to punch. He sees the CBS segment he doesn't like. He then attacks the Pope. And then he goes one step further by by sort of doing this thing that his own people now are describing as blasphemous and some are even going further. You know, it's worth noting, and I'll put a bow on all this, that, you know, as times as JD Vance is out there, front loading Catholicism, one of the things that has also been happening in this larger space is a real grappling with good and evil. And one of the mechanisms for that is a discussion of demons. You know, I've been doing this work a long time. There's a lot of discussion in major circles about demons. Tucker Cawson did a 90 minute show all about actual demons that did the Friday before Easter, that they're among us and they're here. JD Vance, the vice president of the United States, while he is simultaneously front loading Catholics, says that demons are probably the ones responsible for the UFOs. That's what he thinks they are, the vice president. And then Trump gets out there and does this thing. And what are they saying today? They're not just saying that it's blasphemous. You have others like Candace Owens and other prominent figures saying that there is something demonic happening here, that Trump isn't just doing something bad, that it's evil. And I think that that is, you know, more than just a fracture within Moga Media and his own people, they are trying to get closer to being able to call out something that is not just bad politics, but actually evil or wrong. And I think that's the one big significant long tail, aside from all the organizing that the pope's going to do in this fight that Trump picked that he probably can't win, is that his own people are trying to grapple with what they're now beginning to feel internally about him. You know, Cornel Belcher, Tucker Carlson described Donald Trump as a quote, demonic force in emails that were revealed to the course of the Dominion Loading Systems lawsuit. But it is fascinating how quickly Donald Trump has inspired intense animosity toward himself from his own coalition. No, it is amazing, but it's also such a fantastic story. And, you know, we've been around politics a long time. I've never seen such a story. By the way, just personal note, I could listen to you and Professor Butler talk about the gospel and religiosity all day long. I was completely fascinated by that conversation. It's absolutely so smart. And I learned and I'm learning so much. But now I got to talk about politics. Sorry, I got to dumb it down now. You know, part of the part of the thing is, you know what, what, what no Republican on the ballot in 2026 wants to have continuation as a story? It's this one, right? Because it's even harder to combat. Look, you're in a violent right now where from a policy standpoint, you know, what the president is doing and what Republicans in Congress have gone along with is is is really, really unpopular. But now you have that same thing. But now you have that this added dimension of a of a values of much more deeper and values and meaning sort of aspect of this that is also breaking away from them. Look, if you go back to the early 2000s, to the, you know, actually, the late 19th, the late 90s to the mid 2000s, at least when when I started doing polling, Republicans always had this really important advantage. And that was when you ask, you know, independent moderate voters in the battleground states, which party more representative values, Republicans had double digit leads on that, right? It was a bedrock for Republicans. And so many of our progressive, so many of my progressive friends is something that we miss is that so many of Americans make sense of their lives and they organize their lives and they group themselves around values and beliefs and attitudes, not more so than a set of five policy proposals, which my God, I mean, you know, so many Democrats think that, you know, you put out these five policy proposals that people like and they they'll group themselves around it. And they make so much sense of their lives through the the prism of the religiosity and their and their beliefs. And that holds them together. And part of what has been a key and baffling for me, component of Trump's coalition is so many of these so so called Christian voters and these values, these value first voters who have organized themselves around because they see in him some shared values, at least at least the parroting of shared values. I think this, Nicole, undermines the president and the and his coalition, this position is coalition more so than any of the tax stuff, more so than any of the economic policies could ever do. Because quite frankly, we kind of know, we don't want to admit it, but we kind of know they weren't voting for economic policies in the first place. They're voting for something a lot more group and tribal. Yeah, I mean, I also wonder if it's like Epstein, where they realized that he was lying the whole time and they asked the next question. What else was he lying to me about? No one's going anywhere. We're just getting started. I too could listen to Professor Valerio the whole time ahead for us. We'll do more of that. We'll also tell you about Donald Trump's plan B. After those peace talks with Iran failed, a blockade of Iranian ports is right now looking shaky. A key ally of the United States is pushing the Trump administration to drop the blockade altogether. As Iran's so called shadow fleet of oil tankers is managing to make its way past the US Navy. Plus six weeks into the war and even Trump leaning voters are right now wondering why the candidate who promised an end to forever wars launched a war in the Middle East in the first place. There's some brand new reporting on that question and how Trump's political coalition is fraying fast and furious as he fails to come up with the justification or story for his war. And later in the program, the MAGA right is licking its wounds after their bestie on the world stage, Hungarian leader Victor Orban, one of its heroes, frankly, is decisively swept out of power in a landslide. And you have Trump's buddies wondering if a similar fate awaits them here in our country. We have all those stories and much more. And doesn't White House continues after a quick break. Don't go anywhere today. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Busy work weeks can leave you feeling drained. 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I hear this is a major theme right here, but two Corinthians, right? Two Corinthians three 17. That's the whole ball game. When we go in church and, and when I drink my little wine, which is about the only wine I drink and have my little cracker, I guess that's a form of asking for forgiveness. We're back with Angelo Cornell and in the, uh, I think Cornell does the best job explaining it to, to my brain. But what, what in your view has kept this part of Trump's coalition from sort of seeing what's before their own eyes that he does not share their faith system and their, and their, their moral values? Um, basically access to power. Um, one of the things I think that I try to explain in my book is that morality is a shield. In other words, we used to have evangelicals who would say back in the eighties and nineties, you know, we didn't want anybody to be sexually immorality. We didn't want to see people who were divorced or whatever. And by the time you get to Donald Trump in the first, um, election, they are ready for him because they're tired of losing and they want to see some things happen. And then, you know, he gets a row versus weight is defeated. They get what they want from the court. And they have enjoyed a certain amount of prestige because of him. And now what has happened is that they've found out that their, you know, quote unquote little G God is not the God that they thought they were. I mean, you have to remember back in the first, um, first term that he had, they basically called him King Cyrus. They had all sorts of names for him. It was very interesting to watch how they were sort of deifying him in one sort of way, not as has he's put himself, Jesus, but to give him almost supernatural power in a way. And now, you know, I think that what they are finding is that he doesn't share their faith values. He doesn't share their values at all. They've had to think about this through various means and not just the war, you know, not just him protecting himself as Jesus, but also the Epstein files. I mean, sexuality is a big important part of morality. For evangelicals, even though sometimes it doesn't seem like it is. So I think that what is happening now is that you're seeing an erosion of a part of his base, their cracks there and that that basis crack. And I think that what is now happened is that a very big piece of his base, which had been capped, you know, conservative Catholics are now questioning themselves as well as questioning what he's really doing. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, the Times writes it like this, Angelo, white Catholics who support help propel Trump to a second term, remain one of the country's largest swing voting groups, small shifts in their voting could have an outsize impact on competitive house and Senate races in Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin, where they make up a significant portion of the electorate. And the Catholic vote could be important in parts of Arizona and South Texas, or heavy concentration of Latino Catholics could influence contests. Thinking about Telerico there, we're actually going to look at Texas. Hugely consequential to sort of build on your last point. Look at this as another sort of sort of brick in the resistance to Trump to include a portion, even if it's not a majority of American Catholics. Yeah. I think the through line there too is that the Pope is when the Pope is American. And so there is a connection to the Pope, right? And the other part that is significant to your question is that he's also willing to push. You know, it is, you know, post make pronouncements, but he is activating American Catholics and Catholics more broadly in this way. And that means that it doesn't, this is not the, we're not at the peak here. This is actually the beginning that ramps up. So that's where you start to then, you know, it affects their behavior as not just individuals in society, but as political players where they then go and vote based off of these things here. And then on the flip side, outside of the Catholic space, and this sort of ties in as well, because you have one people that could be voting against him. Right. You have another that may just decide to stay home entirely because that's what they deem as the moral thing. And, you know, it started with the Episthean stuff, when you ask yourself questions and you say, okay, this is going to make me, and I may not acknowledge it, but I may hear, I may think it. Right. And so for a lot of these evangelicals, they've ignored a lot of this stuff. You know, they've made, they've made offsets. They haven't really pressed this question for themselves. You know, I've seen things circulating now that didn't break through the first time around. You know, there was, Trump didn't put his hand on the Bible when he, when he swore in a second time, you know, and that didn't penetrate evangelicals. But now they're saying, wait a minute. Hey, why didn't he do that? Does he not respect us? Does he not care? And so that's the same process that happened with the Episthean stuff that you're going to see play out. And that means that they may not show up. So it's a, it's a double hit, I think, in the political context. All right. We'll keep watching. Angela Carousel and Anthea Butler, thank you so much for starting us off today. Cornell sticks around for the hour after the break for us. Brand new reporting today on the diplomatic impasse between Iran and the US. And how a defiant Iranian regime made this same offer to the Trump administration that it made before the war. Stay with us for that reporting next. And I'm Charlotte Flynn. Play Lucky Land Casino today to see if you can take the throne. No purchase necessary. BGW Group. Avoid work prohibited by law. C-turns to conditions for details. 21 plus sponsored by Lucky Land Casino. Avoiding your unfinished home projects because you're not sure where to start. Thumbtack knows homes, so you don't have to. Don't know the difference between matte paint finish and satin or what that clunking sound from your dryer is. With Thumbtack, you don't have to be a home pro. You just have to hire one. You can hire top rated pros, see price estimates and read reviews all on the app. Download today. Donald Trump decided to gamble that a US blockade of the Strait of Hormuz would be worth all of its economic and military diplomatic and security risk. To try to put some pressure on Iran. But already there are signs of trouble. According to the Wall Street Journal, Arab officials say Saudi Arabia is pressing the United States to drop its blockade and return to the negotiating table fearing Trump's move to close it off could lead Iran to escalate and disrupt other important shipping routes. Meanwhile, the blockade isn't even working to prevent Iran from crossing the Strait of Hormuz because again, as a Wall Street Journalist reporting, quote, Iran is using a shadow fleet of ships that employ various methods to avoid detection. Meanwhile, our colleague Jackie Alamany has some brand new reporting on negotiations over the weekend and how little the needle has budged seven weeks into the war. A senior administration official telling us that Iran rejected the 20 year proposal put forth by the United States to suspend all nuclear activity and countered with a three year proposal similar to what Iranian negotiators proposed in Geneva in February before Donald Trump decided to go to war with Iran in the first place. I want to bring in former deputy secretary of state Wendy Sherman. She led the United States negotiating team that successfully reached an agreement on the Iran nuclear deal in 2015. Thank you so much for being here. Good to be with you, Nicole. What if you could just sort of tell me what worries you most? What keeps you up at night right now? My goodness, the list is pretty long, but I would say I would say two things. One, that the Trump administration doesn't realize they could get a deal, but it means actually digging in, bringing experts, putting in the time, putting in the work. It's really quite crucial. The second thing, maybe there are three things, the second thing in terms of the blockade is exactly what the Saudis ostensibly are worried about, which is if this goes on for a while, Iran will feel it has to take some action rather than just suffering more economic harm, which was Trump's intention here was to create an economic cost for Iran. And if Iran feels like it's getting too tough, they will attack our allies and partners, they will get the Houthis to close down the port in the Red Sea. That's what the Saudis are worried about. And the shadow fleet, as you point out, is really getting around all of this anyway. And then the third thing, and probably in some ways, perhaps the most profound, is the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps is now in full control in Iran. The people I call the hard, hard liners now really control everything. And as a result, at some point, they may decide that they must have a nuclear weapon to deter us and others from attacking them again. And if they decide to get a nuclear weapon, then so will several other countries. I won't name them, but you can probably guess who they are. Several other countries will want to get a nuclear weapon and will be in a real bad place. And what impact of any does Donald Trump's publicly stated threat to annihilate their civilization have on their grip on power? I think it probably astonished even those that really hate the regime. This all began because the president said he would have the back of the protesters who were being slaughtered in the streets. That sort of has gone by the wayside. Everybody's forgotten about Iranians who are looking for freedom. And to say we're going to wipe out their civilization for those protesters, they are Iranian. They believe in the many, many, many, many hundreds of years of their civilization and of their theology. And even though they hate this regime, they still love. That they are Iranian and they want to preserve that. So it did not help. And of course, it said to the rest of the world that the president of the United States, even by saying it was committing a war crime. What is the world see right now when it looks to America? I think the world is not sure what they're supposed to do. The president has did not consult any of the allies and partners. And then he castigated them for not helping them out, but saying he didn't need to help them. So it's a little whack-a-mole going on in terms of where you land, where you are. I think what it means is our European allies are trying to plot their own course. It means China is certainly plotting its own course. And it'll be very interesting to see what happens here because the president is due to go to China in May, as we all know. But if this blockade prevents China from getting the oil it needs, it may help Iran out even more. Now, I read a report today that UAE has gone to China to try to get China to put pressure on Iran to end this nightmare. But they didn't choose this war. The United States of America chose this war. And that puts us in a very strange position with the rest of the world. We've tanked the global economy. The price of oil is not decided by how much oil the United States has. We have a lot. It's determined by the world oil market. And therefore, American taxpayers pay the price as well as the rest of the world. It's so amazing. I mean, we, you know, we sort of got to this at the end. It seems to be the only indicator, you know, not threatening war crimes, not alienating our allies, not suggesting an effective or impotent measures to, you know, put off our adversaries. It's the last point you just made. It's the instability in the global markets and its impact on the U.S. economy. Seems to be the only measure that even registers with Donald Trump. What does that mean to the world? Well, many people have said that this is really about munitions, markets and midterms. And munitions in terms of what's this doing to our defense capability, to the weapons we may need if there is another conflict, to the cost, to our taxpayers, to the lives of 13 soldiers who have died, and what it means to everyday Americans in terms of costs to our farmers who can't get fertilizer accepted at a high price. Markets, the president certainly pays attention to what happens to the stock market and how he's doing. I'm not sure he cares about polls, because as you've pointed out, they're pretty bad. And midterms, which certainly are having an impact as more and more races are seeing to sort of trend toward Democrats. And once the House is controlled by Democrats, that's going to create some accountability for President Trump. He operates in a totally different world than the last 50 years of the international rules-based order. And the world is trying to figure out whether they can survive in the world in which he operates. The good news is, Hungarians just decided that that kind of an autocratic approach that Viktor Orban demonstrated is not what they want to hold onto their democracy. And as your last panel discussed, that's what we all have to decide. Yeah, Ambassador Wendy Sherman, thank you so much. Colonel Belcher and I are going to turn to your third to have the midterms on the other side of a very short break. Stay with us. Yeah. Colonel Belcher is back with me. Colonel, Wendy perfectly set up this conversation about the midterms. All of this is just a huge political loser. New York Times has a great story today about how in our country, Trump has done everything wrong, basically, in terms of garnering support, not just from self-politically, but for the war itself. No, I think he is making it already. He is making an already very difficult environment for congressional Republicans, even tougher to navigate. And look, and you look inside, I think CNN's last poll had this war, you know, seventy seven percent of independent voters disapprove of the Iran war and a group of voters that I think if you're a Republican sitting in a swing district and relying on Trump's base and support to come back and help you out. The other numbers that I think is interesting in the polling right now is his overall approval is going under water with non-college white voters. This is a group that he carried massively in the last election and had been key for the hold on to power. And then the CNN poll, the Iran war is even under water with non-college white voters. Do you think that's, do you think that overall approval with that group is tied directly to the war or do you think that's accumulative? I think I don't think it's the one thing I think I think it is a dismal tie. I think it's everything from Epstein to the gas prices to the economy. And now, again, you know, and Nicole, you know this well, so much of that sort of working class, middle Americans, and they make so much sense of their lives, to the prism of their religiosity and their faith. And when he's behaving this way, that is that is so abhorrent to the gospel. It does give them pause. And I'll go back to a point that I think Angela was making, is that like, look, I don't suspect that a lot of conservative Christians are going to pull a ballot for Democrats in the midterms. But you and I both know that for midterm elections, turnout is one of the most important things. And the turnout between the off year and on year can be anything from 10 to 12 points difference and overall turnout numbers. And and I have any look at turnout by Democrats lately, it's been energized. And I think a lot of these places where Democrats have won in red areas is not simply that that that Republican voters are en masse, moving towards Democrats. I think it's also a real hindrance to their enthusiasm to turn out. So how are you feeling as you look ahead to not just the primaries, but the midterms in the fall? Well, Nicole, you want the truth? The truth is I'm I'm I'm I'm afraid as hell because you know, they're looking at the same numbers that all of us are looking at. And they're only going to increase their their attempts to interfere with the elections. And somehow, some way, he's already called every election rigged. Somehow, some way, I think when they look at these numbers and we get close to the election, I think they're going to be looking for ways to stop the voice of the American people. So I I'm I don't take that for granted. I'm very quite afraid about what's going to happen. Yeah, I mean, you're one of the most conservative political analysts, just are we like talking to you because usually the voters exceed not usually, but sometimes. But I feel the way you do after watching the Orban defeat, because I think Trump's like, I'm not even as autocratic as he is. And if he can lose in a landslide and be humiliated, one, I don't know whether they're going to stuff JD Vance for the next five months. And two, it's anyone's guess what they do to try to make sure the playing field is is anything but even and fair. Cornell, it's a pleasure to have you for the whole hour. Thank you so much for spending with me. Quick break for us. We'll be right back. One day after Congressman Eric Swalwell announced his resignation from Congress, a new accuser has stepped forward with allegations that he drugged and raped her in 2018. At a press conference today, the woman said she would be filing a formal police report shortly. An attorney for Swalwell has called the allegations false and fabricated. Shortly after Swalwell's announcement that he is leaving Congress last night, Republican Congressman Tony Gonzalez announced he would also be resigning from Congress. Gonzalez has admitted to having an extramarital affair with a staffer who later died by suicide in September. Both Swalwell and Gonzalez faced bipartisan calls to resign and the threat of congressional ethics probes. And according to reports, a deal to expel both members have been in the works over the last few days. We'll stay on top of these developments. Up next for us, the political downfall of a MAGA kindred spirit in Europe is setting off political alarm bells here in this country. That story is after a quick break, so don't go anywhere.
