Keith Edwards on Hip Hop Embracing Trump, Candace Owens Losing It, Charlie Kirk Memes & More

Oh? Kitty! A great story, like Monsters Inc., stays with you forever. And Disney Plus is where you'll find your next great story. From the return of the award-winning hit series, Rivals. Welcome to the naughtiest show on television. To the unmissable crime drama, High Potential. Gotta dead body, gotta go. A lifetime of great stories awaits. This spring on Disney Plus, 18 Plus, subscription required. T's and C's apply. Keith! Hey. Keith Edwards, how you doing, man? Good, how are you? Nice to have you on here. How you doing this fine day? Pretty good. Pretty good. How are you? Do you seem a little on edge? Am I? No, I'm not on edge. I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just swaying. Taking it all in. Okay, okay, I was just wondering what that was. This is just me, I'm relaxed. No, no, it's good, yeah, hell yeah. No, it's great to have you on here. I've been watching YouTube content for a while and I was very surprised when they said that you were down to come on the podcast. Why? Why surprised? I mean, okay, unbelievably easy to get all of the seediest right wing personalities on any podcast. But then, meanwhile, anybody from the left, it's like, seems a little bit more difficult. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, I'm a big believer in Democrats should talk to anyone anywhere, anytime. So, I feel like I can't believe that and then I'll not also do it. Right. Yeah, no, I think that that's like one of the biggest hurdles that the left has to get over is they have to just seem a little bit more... It's gonna hang out. Yeah. You gotta hang out. Yeah. I mean, that's like a thing that, you know, okay, like the Joe Rogan podcast obviously has become like a haven for all of the worst, most conspiratorial right wing ideas, but people forget that it started out as a bunch of comedians hanging out and built an audience that was like largely apolitical. So, it's kind of easy to like guide that sort of audience into a particular political view. Whereas like, if you look at it from the left perspective, it's like, yes, you do have a bunch of like very, very big leftist content creators, but doesn't feel like they're necessarily like sculpting their audience into leftists. Like they built their podcast around that. Right. That's the initial audience. Yeah. Like my audience is very left leaning obviously, but I think there are independence and there are some Republicans who watch even if they're just hate watching. So, but yeah, I think that is kind of one of the benefits of someone like Rogan is that he does speak to people who might not be reached by any other means. So, yeah. Yeah. And I think Democrats really should go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I mean, like what did you feel like it feels like a really pivotal moment in retrospect, but when the Bernie Sanders campaign put out a little video on social media that at least partially celebrated the fact that Rogan had said positive things about him. And then quickly Bernie Sanders was like derided by the left for being willing to you know, use Rogan as a spokesperson for him. And that just really seemed like kind of a nail in the coffin in terms of. Well, it was the beginning of it was like a sign of things to come. Yeah. Honestly. But I briefly talked to Bernie Sanders about that because Hassan Piker is experiencing the same thing that has happened repeatedly with people on the left who aren't 100 percent aligned with the orthodoxy. And Bernie Sanders, you know, very simply said that, you know, but Democrats should talk to people they disagree with and they should tell them why. Yeah. You know, doesn't have to, you know, you're not endorsing someone just because you're sitting across from them. Right. I think I think Joe Rogan at that time was much more, you know, that's the thing about Joe Rogan. He really just he he listens to people. And he locks in on someone, despite what their brand is and stuff like that. So I think it was like really important that Bernie Sanders was speaking to people who might not otherwise hear his message. To this credit, I don't think they took down that endorsement. No, they shouldn't have. Yeah, they shouldn't have. I mean, like my thing is like, I don't have to agree with you on everything. Right. In fact, I think it'd be kind of boring. Yes. If we agree on everything. Yeah. But if we're close, 70%, 80%, I think a lot of us all kind of want the same stuff. We might have different ways of getting there. Right. But, you know, you're not a bad person just because you see things differently than me. And I think part of the problem what's going on in this country, Donald Trump's a big has has contributed contributed a lot to this is the fact is like making us feel like we're so different. Right. When we're not. Yeah. We're not. Yes. At least I don't believe we are. I mean, he benefits massively from that when they asked him in that recent interview about political violence, you almost immediately pivots to I think it happens in larger numbers coming from the left than the right, which is not true. Right. But that's like everything has to be politicized. We can't say like political violence is bad and none of this should be taking place, which is really what like almost every president for all of history would have said. Bare minimum. Yeah. But the thing is, is I and I guess we'll find out. I feel like the country is thirsty for that again. I think I think we do want leaders who are more responsible. Yeah. With their positions and how they treat us when disasters happen. Definitely. Would you go on Nick Fuentes's podcast or his stream? Yeah. Yeah. Would there be considerations? I feel like I would have to be super prepped because you don't want to show up. You don't want to show up without any ammo. Yeah. He's pretty good at what he does. Yeah. He's very good at what he does. And I'm not really, I'm not a debater. I'm not, I'm not like one of these like debating bros. Especially in modern times, like if you want to really debate, it's like this is clearly a very specific skill set that if you come in unprepared, you're probably in trouble. But for the right reason and for the right conversation, sure. Right. But I think I would have to go in there with a strategy. And I, I, I don't feel like I have enough practice right now to do it. But I would, I would, I would never say no. Just it's my year of yes. It's my year of yes. I interviewed Adam Mockler a few months ago. I saw us. I saw us. Oh, nice. Yeah. And he, he had like frequently made the trip to Tim Poole's podcast, which I understand was not terribly easy to make it to out in Virginia or something like that. But yeah, I mean, like watching his appearances on there really made me kind of question like how much value there really was to be had from being a liberal going on that sort of show. Why, why do you say that? Ah, it just feels like it like, you know, probably doesn't work out terribly well. I kind of doubt the ROI is too significant. Like, I mean, hopping on Discord to talk to somebody is one thing, but like putting on all these hours to go out there. But to the credit, like destiny, when I found out about him, it was largely just because he was willing to go on all these right leaning podcasts and argue with him. And I just became a fan of him from that. So, uh, yeah, I mean, I guess there's, there's definitely some value. It's just kind of like, if you're going to be in a room full of like Tim Poole and all his cohorts, and they're going to just basically be doing everything possible to make you seem stupid. I mean, if you're really, really good, then it's one thing. Yeah, it's a good, that's a good, that's a good thought. Maybe I shouldn't do Tim Poole. I mean, there's just like something about what you're sitting there across with somebody and they just start dumping every conspiracy theory that you've ever heard in your life and a whole bunch of stuff. I feel like I'm just talking to my mom though. Yeah. He's talking to my mom. But typically like your parents just aren't like, uh... She's loaded with, with alternate facts. Yeah. Loaded with them. Yeah. And it's, it's people will shit on you for being willing to do any sort of, uh, research while you're live. So I'm like on my phone, like the, did the Jews really build the slave ships? And it's like, you know, it's like, you're kind of like way past the initial claim by the time you get any kind of answer that might be useful in that moment. Yeah. Definitely. So, okay. Uh, tell us about how you ended up becoming, uh, one of the larger, uh, liberal YouTube voices out now. Like, what was your journey to get here? Well, um, I was a democratic strategist for a long time. I worked on campaigns. Um, for Bloomberg. For Bloomberg. Well, okay. We're not going to drag it for. No, no, no. And you should. It was the only person that would hire you. Can I tell you? Yes. Yes. Well, I know many things. That's why. Yeah. And people don't know this, but the Elizabeth Warren campaign said to me that they wanted to hire me, but they couldn't because they had too many white guys. So then I had to go to Bloomberg, which by the way, feels like not okay to say. Yeah. Like even if that's the case, don't say that. Yeah. Very weird. Yeah. So I was on the Bloomberg campaign and that was my first national, um, campaign, but I worked with John Ossoff, who was, um, uh, Senator out of Georgia. I helped elect him. Um, I worked with a Republican group, funny enough called the Lincoln project where there's a communications director and I oversaw a lot of content. But, um, I was a strategist for a few years and then, uh, I've always had like a Twitter following, but I, right. There was no intention, no intention. I just started a YouTube channel. You can go to my channel. Look at the oldest video. It's a terrible first video shot on my phone. Um, but I had a feeling that I wanted to be on YouTube and I kind of, uh, thought to myself, you know, I didn't go to college and I think that has been a great benefit in some respects because when you don't go to college, there's a moment you're like, Oh, I could have just won. It's four years later. I could have my degree. Yeah. And so with, uh, with YouTube, it was, it was like that feeling of like, you know, I, I can start it today. Yeah. I don't want to wait because in four years I could have started my channel and, and, and I will have nothing to show for it. So I just decided to do it knowing that time passes anyways. Did not expect it would get as big as it's gotten. Um, but that was the initial journey is it was literally just like, I just feel like I should be on YouTube. Let's see where it can go. Was it just like making video as your video and it just sort of incrementally grew or were there like giant, uh, viral hits that sort of propelled the channel? Uh, there, there was like a moment where I gained a hundred thousand subscribers in a month. And you're at what total right now? I'm at 1.3 almost. Okay. Um, 1.3 million. And, uh, but there wasn't like any specific moment. It's been pretty steady. If you look at it, there's been, there's been videos that pop where you get 20,000 subscribers or that sort of thing. But it's pretty, it's been a fairly steady rise. Right. Um, and fast. What would you say is like the biggest factor that makes a politically themed video do well for your audience as opposed to whatever you were doing in the beginning? Uh, I think I realized it just needs a hook. There needs to be a hook. You can do a lot with a video and you can talk about a lot of different topics. That aren't related to the initial subject of why someone clicks in, but you have to give them a reason to click in and then you have to give them a reason to stay. And so I think I'm constant. I still feel like I'm constantly trying to figure out what that looks like for my audience and how it works. Um, but I think I have a better sense of it now than I used to, but, but certainly like the hook is the most important thing. Right. And I mean, do you feel like you're kind of audience captured to a certain extent where it's like, obviously the clickbait, at least from me looking at your channel, it's like, if the clickbait makes Trump sound as if he's done something that is like an existential threat to his existence, that's probably going to be the stuff that makes your video do well. Like it has to be like catastrophe scenario for Donald Trump, ideally, and it could be other people from the rep, the Republican party as well, but probably it should come back to Trump. I've been trying to do more satellite characters because Trump's not going to be around forever. You have to build up these other. And so I would say clickbait. I mean, a clickbait is a part of it. You got to get people to click. You've got to. I say clickbait is short, short for him for like title and thumbnail. Yes. Uh, but I am trying to lean away from like it's like everything is falling down for Trump. Um, I don't succeed all the time because it does work. Yeah. But, um, I try to respect my audience more than that. And I've been trying to do more like vague titling too. Where it's like, I can't believe this. Yeah. Or like, holy fucking shit, like holy fucking shit always slaps. People always click in. Yeah. But I'm trying to just do more titling like that. And I'm, but it's, it's, as you know, it's like these things like ebb and flow and the audience is really receptive to one thing for a little while. And then they want something else. And so it's about, it is audience capture to some degree in terms of like, I'm trying to figure out what they want to click on. Right. But in terms of like what I talk about and my opinions, um, I really try to give them exactly how I feel and what I think rather than what, what they want to hear. Right. If Trump does something really good, does that work? Just click bait. Like Trump did one thing right this week and this is it. No. No. That video would not do well. Unsubscribe. You would think that it would like have some value because somebody might be curious. I'm like, Oh, he's going to acknowledge. I'm trying to think like what, what would that even be? Yeah, I don't really, I don't know. I mean, it was kind of hard to come up with that. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, uh, I mean, like obviously you see everybody on the right sucked into this, like just as much perhaps even more whenever you're skimming. They have audience capture to an insane degree, to an insane degree. Um, but I don't know. The smart ones have already started to go away from him. Like Candace Owens. Right. Nick Fuentes, Margie Taylor-Grain. Those are, those to me are the canaries and the coal mine. Like the fact that they're turning because they're like me. Right. They're close to the audience. Yeah. Donald Trump is not reading comments. Right. And if he, if he is there on true and they're just bots, replying with memes that support him, but Candace Owens is reading the comments and she knows whether or not what she's saying is being supported, whether they like it, whether they want less of it. And so if her Fuentes, Alex Jones are starting to turn. Yeah. That's a really big sign that, um, that there's something really afoot. Right. Like I was reading something saying that like Trump's, um, real like North Star is not how his party fares in the midterms. It's more like setting himself up to have this legacy post presidency. And then that kind of explains a lot of the things that he's doing. Like you would think that if you really cared about doing well in the midterms, they probably wouldn't have started this war. Right. Probably wouldn't be going into war with all the most popular right wing podcasters at a time like this, which realistically people were predicting that he was going to just get destroyed in the midterms regardless. But that does kind of make sense of it in a sense. Yes. Or not to get too conspiratorial, but I'm afraid of midterm shenanigans. So it could also be perhaps it's that Donald Trump doesn't feel like he has to worry about voters like he used to. Right. So, uh, we don't know, but I'll just, I'll just recall that like in the 2024 election, there are all that on election day, there are all these bomb threats in, uh, in majority democratic voting areas in swing states. Never looked into that. Who did it? Why did they do it? What was the, what was the outcome of that? Did it change? Did it perhaps change the outcome of the election? Cause people are afraid to vote, go vote because we don't know. So yes, perhaps we will lose or he will lose the midterms, but I wouldn't pass, put it past him or whoever else did that to try to do something again. So I'm not like overly confident about what's going to happen in November. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because like if Candace Owens has a North Star, I would just say it's conspiracies in general. And it doesn't seem like her audience is super concerned with all of these conspiracies working in lockstep together. So let's say that like Trump does try to, try to steal the election. It feels like they're going to be kind of at the front of the charge in terms of exposing this and as much as it might be bad for the Republican party, it feels like, you know, she cares more about views and having a new conspiracy to talk about for a few weeks more than anything. So it's like she could be the person driving the most attention to that, at least on the right. Yeah. I mean, I think she's a valuable, like, like useful idiot for the left right now. Right. So I'm glad she's throwing bombs. Yeah. So yes, she could help expose. She has helped expose or at least she, I think she's been really like she has a way of expressing things that like really spread. Like I think she called Donald Trump a slave. You know, and it was like a fascinating way to describe him that I'm sure really pissed him off. You know, like she said, he was a slave to Israel or something that we can all see like the shackles on you. Yeah. And of course, Donald Trump has ever since been extremely antagonistic towards her. Right. And like pretty racist, frankly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you watch her content, does it stand out to you that she might just be this like mentally unstable person who really believes these things? Or do you feel like she's just like a very talented orator who's able to read the tea leaves and realize that there's a big audience for this kind of stuff? Because I don't feel like anybody could have predicted that her, you know, accusing Erica Kirk and turning point of being in on Charlie Kirk's murder. I don't think anybody could have really called it that that would have been a winning strategy. I, I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to assume that she's a smart lady who's making money. Right. And she's grifting. That's what I'm going to assume. Because if she actually believed this shit, I think it would probably look a little different. Marjorie Taylor Greene is a crazy person. But I really do think she believes in America first, you know, and I do. And I do think she really wanted to get the Epstein files out. Right. And I really do think it was a wake up call for her. Yeah. That the president was for some reason really behind Israel and preventing the Epstein files from being fully released. Right. Like so much crazy shit that she's done throughout her the last few years. But then when you look at how she behaved with the Epstein files and the fact that that was the impetus for her and Trump to fall out, that all seemed pretty coherent. It seemed genuine to me. Yeah. It seemed. But with Candace Owens, I kind of I don't follow her as closely, but it seems to me that she's really just going where like we're not like where the story leads her, but we're the audience. Right. I allow her to. Which if you really think about it, you know, I mean, like Alex Jones is kind of the template for what she's doing now in terms of like really forming a business off conspiracies and it's like that that kind of audience is the last audience that's going to really accuse you of being inconsistent. It's like, right? You're not making a whole lot of definitive claims. You're just kind of allowing people to ponder. But I will say, I think that's I think this is something the left could be better at. And it's something I try to I'm trying to work on. But left leaning content creators are really good at the what and how, but they're not really good at the why. Right. They're not we're not like they're not really storytellers. And Candace Owens and Alex Jones are not based in fact. So it's easy to tell a story that you make up on the spot. But they are really good storytellers. And that's the thing not not to get to whatever, but that's the thing human beings been doing for a long time. Yeah, we love a story. And especially right wing radio throughout our childhood, whereas you didn't really see a whole lot. So I think left wing content creators could could at least at least look at what they're doing and say, right, well, how can we instead of just saying, well, actually, well, actually, it's 28 percent is the going. Blah, blah, blah. And well, actually, actually, inflation's four point, you know, but talk more about the why. Right. Why is this matter? Why is Trump doing this? Why is Erica Kirk endorsing J.D. You know, like there's a lot of questions to be to be thought about and to assert the reason for why it's happening. And if you take like an Adam Mockler, Dean Withers or whatever, it's like their value proposition is more formed around them being like really fast talking debate style. Yes. Commentators. Which is great. Yeah. But Charlie Kirk was that. In a sane world, that would be like the primary thing that we would be acknowledging as having value, but it feels like that does kind of fall outside of what maybe Alex Jones or Candice Owens is doing that makes them so popular with their side. I don't think you're ever going to change someone's mind with with just a fact. I don't think facts alone can change people. If that were there, if that was the case, Donald Trump wouldn't be present. So it can't just be facts. Yeah. We have to be storytellers. Definitely. So, OK, would you say that in general? I like who do you look to on the left that you think is doing stuff that is good enough that it that it moves the needle in terms of bringing people towards the left? Like who are the most important figures to stand out to? I know you did this interview with Gavin Newsom. Do you feel like he is sort of like new approach towards social media and everything? Is that getting sort of closer to what the party needs? Well, we're in a we're in an attention economy. So I think what he's doing has been somewhat. I think it's been a net good to show because basically what he was doing was he was pointing out the hypocrisy of how the president literally posts the way that he does. But it becomes news because no one expects Gavin Newsom to post like an insane person. Right. But he's like, he's just basically, well, actually, this is literally what the president's doing. The guy with the nuclear codes. So I think that's been a net benefit. I don't know if the podcast is changing hearts and minds. Perhaps I'm not sure I haven't seen any research on that. But when it comes to like left-winning, I actually think. I think we have all this stuff sort of backwards because I think there are a lot of left-leaning creators who are not talking strictly politics. Right. Yeah. That are super important. You know, I went on a podcast for this drag queen called Delta Work. OK. And she is not political at all. But there's a lot of policy. There's a lot of there's there's a lot of left-leaning ideas in what she's talking about. And like she has this whole thing where she's always pissed off at some corporation about how they're f**king us. Right. Now, that's not overtly like vote for Democrats. But it's still like it's still, I think, doing a really important job of waking people up that like, hey, this isn't normal. Yeah. Like we're all we're all kind of getting screwed over. So I think that to me is like the thing is like we don't have to have like not everyone has to be like vote blue, vote blue. You know, but I do think that it's important to have liberal ideas in that. But but I do think a lot of content creators, most content creators, most people are inherently liberal. It's just that the right has done a really good job of flooding the zone with their ideas. And a lot of those people who are clearly on the right, clearly they voted for Trump, but they don't really identify as Republicans. Like that that part of it, because that that group in particular is like really anti being labeled. Yeah, I think most people are feel that way now. Yeah, they don't want to be like, I think both sides suck for different reasons. Like I like I am a Democrat, but I don't feel particularly proud to say that. Like I don't think either party is really representing people very well. Yeah, you know, I think most people feel like we're getting ripped off. Yeah. And I don't think you'd even have to explain why I think most people understand that this system is severely rigged against most people. It's not rigged against everyone. It's working for a very small few. But that's a message that truly is not. It's like nonpartisan. And that should be the most populist messaging. Yes, doesn't feel like I feel like people are coming around towards that where that could be the biggest issue. But instead we end up with like trans sports and bathrooms and these things are like the most salacious people. But that's all by design. Yeah. Like there are people getting paid a lot of money from billionaires for us to talk about that. Right. Rather than the fact that, hey, why like flying's getting worse. College is becoming more and more unaffordable. Yeah. We don't like health care. The health care system here is awful. Another thing that's like unbelievably relevant to the average person's life that just doesn't feel like the media cycle has enough room for. Right. So it's just like they would much rather us talk about trans people, which by the way, I don't know about you. Trans person's never affected my life. No, no, no. Ever. But I couldn't afford to go to college. Right. So it's by design. Yeah. And it's very smart and it's insidious. Right. But that's why that's why I'm a little like, like I'm a Democrat because I think they're slightly I think they're slightly less worse than the Republicans because they believe in democracy. And that's that's kind of important to me. That's important to me. Definitely. I think every person should be able to vote no matter what. Right. And we should make it as easy as possible. And I think I don't know the president shouldn't decide who wins and loses an election. I think the vote the people should. Right. That's why I'm a Democrat mainly. And then there's all the, you know, there's policy stuff too. But Democrats also fall into this trap of debating those stupid ass issues rather than, and this is why Bernie Sanders, I think, is great because he doesn't even go there. He's like, that's not a thing. Like, let's talk about what really matters. Right. You know, he went on a whole tour, like an anti-Oligarcher tour to talk to just get up the idea that there's a small few amount of, there's a small few people who are controlling all of this. Right. And, and for right now, there's one thing they can't control is that we all get a chance to vote. You know, there's more of us than them, but it is, it is in, it is in their best interest to have us talk about the things that don't matter, that rile us up and make us feel different, make us feel apart from so that we vote against our interests. Yeah, definitely. I mean, it kind of stands out to me a lot that as much as the right figured out at some point that they were able to easily weaponize the trans conversation in order to make Democrats look bad, that then when Gavin Newsom starts his podcast, one of the first viral clips to come out from it was basically him having the gall to say that he doesn't believe that trans women should be competing in women's sports. And he took a lot of blowback from that. But at the same time, I feel like that's probably something that the next president, the next Democratic president is probably going to have to be willing to say, because it just seems like such a losing issue for the left. I mean, I don't, I don't know. I actually feel like if a Democrat just talks about issues, talks about a populist message and Graham Plattner is polling insanely well. He's running for Senate in Maine against slippery snake Susan Collins, who's been in office for so long. And he talks about this very bluntly. He's like, I don't, he's like the trans stuff is just a distraction from us talking about the real issues. And I really think that's all you got to do. We don't have to throw anyone under the bus in order to win elections. I don't believe that. And so like the reason why the reason why they want us to talk about the trans stuff is so that we don't talk about the things that actually matter. Right. And I don't, I truly don't believe in attacking marginalized communities just to win elections. And like, so, so you won, but at what cost, you know, I don't believe that at all. Right. I just think that it's one issue that is so useful to the right. Isn't there like 14 trans athletes? Right. OK. And as, but as hypothetical as it may be, I just feel like it is such a loser for the left that they are unwilling to talk about this. And there's a lot of other like good examples, like the one that they should talk about it, but they should just talk about it. I think as bluntly as I like, I really feel like those, those like whoever they're competing, they can figure it out. They can figure it out. Right. The government doesn't have to step in with that shit. Right. At all. Yeah. In my opinion, like communities, communities, sports organizations, schools can figure it out and how it works for them. Right. That's that's that would be my that my take on it for the 14 people. Right. Who it matters, who actually matters. I guess like my thing is that I end up having a lot of conversations with pretty like low information voters, not that I'm the most informed, but it just feels like that's just something that we come back to so quickly. And I almost prefer that I would rather them bring up that than like COVID or like lockdowns. Sure. It just feels like that's one that I'm really not going to be able to push you into understanding where I'm coming from on that. But yeah, I just I feel like the trans thing, as much as what you're saying is true, which is like, yes, this is being weaponized. And this is such a fringe issue that's affecting such a tiny amount of people is that as soon as a Democrat is unwilling to take a stand against like trans women and women's sports, that it just becomes like such a clear cut example of like, look at how these people are unwilling to acknowledge basic reality and to be willing to take any sort of like hard stance to it always comes out like protecting children. It's like why we have this conversation about like high school instead of grown adults more often than not. And then they're just really, really good at sort of weaponizing that. Yeah. And if they actually wanted to protect children, there's a lot more they could be doing when talking about trans athletes. Yeah. To be completely fair. Definitely true. But I mean, would you be happy to vote for somebody who took a stance when it came to trans sports that like maybe wasn't reflective of what you would prefer your ideal candidate to be saying, but a stance that was validable enough that everybody that you felt like he was a stronger candidate because I am a gay man. Okay. Obama in 2008 was like marriage is between a man and a woman. Yeah. My brother had to say that to get elected. Right. Okay. I understood what he was doing. I did not think he was a homophobe. Okay. I also feel like we got to be a little smart, you know, and if like, if the majority of people are somewhere and you got it, we got to, we got to, we got to bring them into our side. Okay. We can't, we can't attack someone, make them feel less than or make them feel stupid just because they don't see it the way that I do, which by the way is the right way. Right. But, but that's my persuasion. Like I feel like we've lost the art of persuasion. The gay rights movement was a long ass movement that started with like gay people literally being ostracized from society to like the Supreme Court ruling that marriage is for everybody. Right. That didn't happen in a day, but it also didn't happen by like yelling at people and saying, you're a bigot. Why won't you see things the way I do? Right. And so I think there has to be some nuance with this stuff. And I just always go back to the Obama example that he was not like on the side of gay marriage at first. Right. And then he was in 2012. Right. I would say that at that time, I feel like almost the majority of Democrats would have, if press said, yeah, Obama is saying that because right now it's not politically palatable to say that you're in favor of gay marriage. I feel like we all secretly knew that there was no way that he was stupid enough to not actually think that gay marriage was fine. But, but that's politics. Yeah. But that's also me like, choosing to like, plant my ideas inside of him and say, like, of course, he must think that because he's a logical person. Yeah. But like, I don't know, Trump in 2017, 2018 was like, Katelyn Jenner can go wherever she wants to go to the bathroom. You know, this issue has really just been weaponized by billionaires to keep us because they're like, oh, this, this is a good one. We got a good one here. That's going to really divide people. Right. So I don't know, to the 14 people who this affects in this country, who are trans athletes and want to compete, you know, I, I, I want them to be able to just do what's best for them in their communities and in their, you know, whatever league they, they compete in. Sometimes it's like bowling, you know, it's like, OK, it's a trans woman bowling. We're like going to. The male bowlers do like destroy female bowlers on average. Okay. All right. All right. I don't know. I don't know. I'm pretty sure. I don't know. It seems pretty similar to me. Yeah. Or like, I don't, I truly don't know. Like a trans pool player. I don't know. Like I have like looked up some, there's a lot of like random sports that you would think would be very equal where there's just little things that I feel like a lot of it too is just that men have like the bizarre ability to like really hone in and focus on things and kind of take their actual ordinary life. Like I was at like a parent dinner the other day, like from my kid's school and I was kind of like seated in such a way that I could hear what the women were talking about and what the men were talking about. And the women were talking about their kids the whole time and the men were talking about AI the whole time. And that just really stood out to me as like, this is the difference between men and women. Yeah, there's there's definitely a difference. Probably all these women really wish that we weren't talking about AI and that we were talking about like what soccer program put our kids in. Yeah. But that's my thing is like, I feel like the differences should be celebrated. You know, there are differences and they should be celebrated. And it's the same thing with trans people. Like there's a difference and that's okay. Like it should be but it should be celebrated. But there is a difference, you know, for sure. Okay, I'm glad I get a chance to ask a gay man this question. But do you feel like is there any truth to the narrative that gay people had essentially like won all of the major concessions that they would have asked for in society? And then at that moment, the movement was kind of like hijacked by non binary people and trans people and people who really like wanted rights and acceptance and ability to like move around the way that they wanted to move. But in such a way that was like really debilitating to the larger LGBTQ movement. So I don't know. I don't know. Do you have any sympathy for that argument? Does it feel like there's any truth to that? I don't. I don't. Okay. I think there are like the groups. Right. There's the groups. And there it has been said that they needed like the next thing because they got a they got a fundraise. They got a for sure. How are we? But that's what I've that's that's what I've read before. Right. I don't know if there's any validity to that. But I mean, people people are like discriminated against in this country. Right. Okay. Just because they happen to see things differently, because they might want to live their life slightly differently than outside the norm. That's not a new thing. And so I don't I don't think it was like, all right, let's okay. LGBTQ. All right. Time to focus on. I don't think it was like that. No, I don't know. I mean, that's like really conspiratorial. Yeah. You know, I think like, I think with all these things, it's like the simplest explanation. Like I imagine that, like, I don't know, like probably more and more trans people were like, getting attacked and killed. And so it became a bigger issue to defend. Yeah. So definitely. I mean, it also stands out that like, a lot of the weirdest, you know, trans non-binary adjacent things are things that no human being would ever encounter in the real world. It's just that they're like, you know, the libs of TikTok style accounts, like have really figured out how they could make content. Which by the way is awful. Yeah. It's awful. Right. But they like, there was a moment where I like sort of realized as that kind of was becoming popular, like, oh, like all they have to do is like mine the social media content of the people that they most disagree with and they have just like an infinite supply of content for better or for worse. For worse. Yeah. Yeah. That's weird when you go like, because you're from, where you from? I'm from Warren, Michigan. Right. Just outside Detroit. There's been times where I go down south, I'm like Nashville, and it's just like, oh, shit, like I'm really in the culture war out here where you have like a lot of different businesses blatantly have signs like describing their bathroom policy because it's actually controversial out there and you've got all these right wing companies like buying billboards. I noticed you have an all gender bathroom here. Very progressive. I mean, honestly, we had this building for like three years and that sign was there. Okay. All right. Woke. No, but literally like sometimes the rappers will look at that sign to be like, oh no, you all want some weird shit. And I'll be like, but it's just a one person bathroom. It's all gender and it is one style, which means that a man or a woman or whatever could use this bathroom. And it's just amazing that like the gender thing, they just see the word gender and they're like, yeah, yeah. It's like when people are getting upset that there was an all gender bathroom on the plane. It's like, well, what do you expect? Yeah. It's for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Every airport bathroom you have ever used has been an all gender bathroom. Yeah. Um, okay. So when it comes to your YouTube content, is there a, is there a weighing in your head that takes place of like speed versus accuracy? Like how important do you consider it to be to have the story 100% authenticated before you're willing to make a video about something and like, how much does it matter that you get this video out about something that Trump did right now versus eight hours from now? Well, I don't know. It's like some of them is like if Trump farts and you can hear it, right, you don't really got to, there's no fart as a fart. Yeah. You don't got to fact check that. Right. But sometimes it could be like, you know, it's a noise and we don't really know where it came from. Sure. But you can assert. Yeah. You can assert that was a fart. Right. I will assert that. I think it's a fart. Yeah. Uh, so I don't, I think, I think I try to not be fast. I don't try to be first. I try to be, I just try to be, um, I just try to make sure that I'm not, I just try to make sure that I'm finding the best stories for my audience. And so if that happens to be something that's breaking right now, it won't matter because in three hours, I'll have more information about what's happening with the White House correspondence dinner stuff. You know, the, uh, you know, there was a shooting. Yeah. There was almost a shooting there, which you were sort of adjacent to. I was adjacent to. I was stuck at the sub-sac party. Um, wow. But, uh, but I rushed home to make a video about it. Not because like all the facts had been uncovered. I mean, we, we, we had that point where you knew the shooter was and all that sort of stuff. Um, but it's just, I think, important to get some facts out there. Uh, and a lot of my audience thought it was a false flag. And so I, I don't know either way. You know, I, I'm going to assume the simplest explanation is the right one, which is Donald Trump hires people who are idiots, idiots attract idiots. And so he's got maybe not the best people trying to keep him safe. But it's like the secret service, right? Yeah. It's a secret service, but like, like, I don't, like it just feels like that to me is a simpler explanation. Then it was, yeah. Then like, then like we, then Donald Trump, who like, I don't know, can't string five words together as a master manipulator that can construct this, this drama and theater of this guy running. It doesn't make sense to me. I mean, that clip of the guy running through the lobby, passed all the security guards and everything was pretty astounding because it really made you feel like, oh, shit, like, I guess that's what this would look like. If somebody was going to be able to assassinate the president in the scenario. I mean, if you could run past 20 security guards, then maybe that's all you need to do. Yeah. And people act weird when weird things happen. So it makes sense to me too, that people are like standing around being like, what do we do? You know, like, I just think. I that, but, but I will say, I do not trust anything coming out of this government. Like at all. I don't think I ever should have, you know, I think we, I think there should be a healthy skepticism of what the government tells us, what our leaders tell us, what the media tells us, but especially with this administration, who is they're just not trustworthy. I don't, I just, I just don't know what to believe. For sure. And then, you know, that shooting takes place. And then almost immediately you just see like every right wing personality that you follow, putting out the same messaging about how clearly this. That was weird. Yeah. Wasn't that weird? It's weird, but it makes so much sense because just a few weeks ago, I think Ashley Sinclair is her name, the one that Elon put a baby in. But she had kind of like aired out all this shit and said, like, oh, this is how it works is that there's these, there's like a White House led group chat that's basically like telling everybody what messaging they should put out there. And when you see it like that, where like, you know, everybody bringing up like, oh, this is the justification for why Trump should be able to build his ballroom or whatever, that like, that makes so much sense. That's not just like an obvious talking point that comes to mind after you see an assassination attempt on the president is like, well, this is why they should have let him build his. I know there was a viral treat that was like, of course, the false flag is for a ballroom to remain in power indefinitely. Yeah. I mean, that just like made so much sense to me right there. And I've kind of like heard over the years of like, oh, there's all this like sort of dark money that's going to right wing commentators and everything. But like right there, when I saw everybody latch onto that ballroom thing, I was like, oh, okay, clear as day. There's nobody could ever tell me that this wasn't coordinated. Well, the messaging was. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that, but a lot of people see that messaging and they're like, oh, the shooter was part of this plan as well. And it's like, no, this is them being opportunistic. Yes. Something bad happened. Let's use it to our advantage. Let's leverage this so we can. Well, it's funny though, then the next day the courts were like, no, you can't do the ballroom. Yeah. Yeah. That's hilarious. But is there any equivalent to that on the left? Are there signal chats in which? I'm not in those. I, people ask me to join them. I always say no, I don't want to be in those. But you've heard about it. Okay. Yeah. There's, yeah. And they're not paid things. It's just group chats. If they're paid, I don't know about that. Okay. But, but there are like, yeah, there's a lot of signal chats. I'm in some chats with content creators that I like, but it's not like organized by anyone. Right. You know, and so when the Eric Swalwell stuff started happening for your audience, maybe they don't know, but like a candidate who was running for governor. Right. Was accused of rape and the, and sexually harassing his staff. And it's something that I had slightly heard about a couple of years ago. I knew someone that he had DM'd and like sent dick pics to. And so when he was getting polling very high, I was in a group chat with a couple of other content creators and we were like, how are you going to like expose this piece of shit? Okay. So like we were coordinated in that way. And like REL who was in that group chat was one of the main people who was able to organize taking him down. But we all decided on March 22nd to push out like some blind items about Eric Swalwell, just to like blow up, at least let reporters know that there's something going on. And when we did that, that actually did make a big difference and reporters started to look into it into a, in a more serious way. So there's the, like coordination can be really useful. Um, that's why they pay for it. But from what I know, Democrats have not found a way to be useful, coordinating with money. I mean, if you want to take what the Ashley St. Clair girl was saying at face value, I mean, she was very much saying that like there's just billionaires who have all these pet causes and they're willing to dump money into it. And the money's like pretty inconsequential to them. Good money too. Yeah. Like there were some creator on TikTok who said that a Republican aligned organization was going to give her 30,000 for like a post and the Democrat aligned one was going to give her like 2000. Yeah. So that's the, that's like what we're up against. Yeah. Or if you want to take it back to like what Tim Poole was allegedly paid to post all this sort of Russia friendly propaganda, 400 K a month or something like this outrageous amount, like more than any content creator is realistically probably making off of AdSense or whatever their main business models are. Mm hmm. Yeah. And so that just doesn't exist on the left because there's not, there aren't a lot of billionaires on the left who want to help destroy the system that created their ability to have as much power as they do. Right. So that's, that's like the imbalance here is that there's a lot of money in politics. Um, but a lot of it does go towards the conservative side because they want to remain in power. They want to make sure they have as much money as possible. And there's only like, like really left wing creators, only ones that are like really against that. I actually said that's not true because I think Steve Bannon is kind of, he's like really much so against like oligarchy and corporate control. And he's a populist. So I think that does exist on the right. But he seems like he would be the one facilitating the billionaires spending all this money. He would, but not about that about, about like immigration or some shit, you know, but, but there are populists on the right too, who are against corporations and, and greed. Right. No, definitely. Um, I was just listening to the new, uh, Sam Harris and Ben Shapiro, uh, podcast that they put out, which I found really fascinating with them to speak to each other. But like there's one dynamic that keeps coming up, which is like Sam keeps basically like listing off all of these terrible things that Trump has done. And Ben, to his credit, really has this mastered in terms of like how to justify anything that Trump has ever done, which is to basically say, listen, is it fucked up that he, you know, basically danced on Rob Reiner's grave, like the day that he passed away? Yes. But ultimately I'm willing to choose somebody who is advancing the policies that I believe are important. And if he says mean things on Twitter, if he goes on shitty rants and says unkind things about women, et cetera, you know, I'm just perfectly willing to accept that when in comparison, you know, if I were to go and vote for Kamala Harris or support Kamala Harris, it's like all of her policies are working against what I believe in. This is from Ben Shapiro's voice. And it is kind of hard to think of the opposite example of that where there would be like a left wing candidate that we were all willing to support despite thinking that they were a horrible person. Um, but like from your perspective, is that an acceptable justification? Of Trump from somebody like Ben Shapiro, or do you feel like that's a cop out to not be willing to, and to his credit, Ben does say that Trump does bad things. He'll say that. Whereas like a lot of people on the right are jumping through hoops to try to justify literally anything that he does. I guess, I mean, but if he does bad things and you still support him, then what's the like so, so it doesn't bother you that then are they truly bad? So I don't know. I mean, I expect I, I missed the time when we expected the most out of our leaders that we actually held them to a higher standard. Remember that? No, no. When like the president was like supposed to be the example, right? Doesn't mean that didn't fall short. But there is like this expectation that the people that we put in front of us to lead us had to actually like be maybe a little bit better versions of who we are. Right. So I don't know. I think what Ben Shapiro is doing is really insidious. I think it actually helps to grade democracies because part of like part of electing someone to represent us isn't about the policies. It's about representing like who we think we are, you know, like who are better selves can be. Maybe that's a little too naive. But but I think to just like justify it because it's like, well, he he likes the policies I like, which by the way is not even true. Right. Like Donald Trump doesn't believe in anything. Right. You know, like I don't like what has he advanced that has helped Republicans or even this country? I mean, some of the examples Ben Shapiro was given was like, you know, dismantling DEI on a federal. Oh, OK. Oh, wow. That's really helped me. That's important to Ben Shapiro. OK, that really helped our lives, right? Right. Well, OK, that DEI is gone. So, you know, life's great. Yeah. But I mean, if he believes that I could, I guess I could. I do have some sympathy for this viewpoint just because I could like hypothetically imagine that the perfect Democratic presidential candidate that we would both agree would be like, this is the guy. But then once in a while, he'll just, you know, tell a female reporter that she's just a disgusting piece of shit or whatever. Like these things that Trump does, you know, like. But it's not once in a while. That's a thing. It's like we're like we're like battered. Right. We can't even remember what normalcy was like. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And there's like a whole generation of people coming of age who are going to be voters that only know politics with Donald Trump involved, you know. Yeah. So don't even know what like like a more relaxed version of this can look like. Yeah. So I think it's a cop out. I mean, would you vote for someone that acts like Donald like did you vote for Donald? I don't even know. No. No. But so you wouldn't. So like, but why do you think like, why do you think it's okay for Ben Shapiro to support someone like Trump just because his policies like shouldn't? I want to say I think it's okay. But I get, I think that's probably the best just to fate justification that he could possibly land on. And it's, it's hard to. It feels like a cop. The opposite example. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he obviously really has no choice in this matter. Like he's already in enough of a bad situation in terms of. Well, my girlfriend beats me, but the sex is good. It's like, okay. I guess I've guys in that situation. So you're right. One person gave really to mind for both of us right there. Yeah. No, yeah. But I mean, like Ben Shapiro is already in a tough space because the right is so fractured and him being the guy who's really just Israel guy. He's the pro-Israel Republican. And that just seems like the least palatable stance on the right at this point and the right being so split. It's like he is already in a little bit of a weird position and he's got people like Candice Owens who's an avowed enemy of his. And yeah, I mean, he does seem like he's been kind of really marginalized over the last couple of years. I think what Ben Shapiro doesn't realize is that he thinks he's fighting for his party, but the party's already left him. Like he's no long, like he is like whatever he thinks he believes is not going to win the next election. Cause you know, there's all these anecdotes about how all of the younger staffers on Republican campaigns, et cetera, are all Nick Fuentes fans. Yes. They're all racist. They all say terrible things about women. And Ben Shapiro really does a lot to like try to negate that on that particular episode in terms of him saying that like it's a extremely fringe phenomenon and that it's, you know, just really not indicative of like the average Republican at this point. But I don't know. I mean, most of the people who are right-leaning that I know definitely have some time for some Nick Fuentes, you know, it's pretty popular. Yeah. He's entertaining. Yes. It's, it's scary. But I mean, you've watched him. I interviewed him over Zoom at one point. He's funny. Yeah. He's funny. He's an entertaining guy. I don't actually know, like, I don't, like, I don't know what his impact is writ large on the party. We'll see because he's, he's saying like in the midterms, don't vote for Republicans. Right. You know, he, I think he's going to go after JD Vance if JD Vance decides to run for president. So I don't, I don't know how much political power he has. You know, I know that he has a really large megaphone. Yeah. But I don't, I think it remains to be seen how powerful he is other than just getting attention, you know, like, can he actually get people off the couch to vote? We don't know. Right. Cause I mean, I remember when I interviewed him and when it came out that I was just astonished at the rate at which the comments were coming in. And then years later, I read the study that's basically like, you know, a huge percentage of his Twitter is engagement is all astroturfed. And like, they're just, just huge armies of bots that are basically like filling in to make his content look a lot more popular than it is. And I feel stupid because in retrospect, when I was reading those comments, those comments were just like clearly there was just this big, either they're bots or they've just got like a big discord and like every single thing that Nick does on a public level, people are just like, Hey, like you got to get in there. Every single person in this discord has to go leave a positive comment within, you know, two seconds of the interview going up. So I mean, it does stand out to me a lot that like the right gets the power of optics, perhaps more than people on the left. And they're willing to like invest into that because a lot of that, you know, people just don't have a lot of time. And when you see that this person averages 50,000 likes on their tweets, it just goes a long way in the average person's mind. Yeah, it does. It has, it has a way of making people feel like, Oh, this person's saying must be meaningful. Yeah. I don't know how to, I don't know how to fix that problem. But, um, but yeah, you're right. Like the left really just doesn't understand optics at all. We don't understand storytelling. We don't understand optics. I don't know what, I don't know what it is about people on the left, um, especially people on the left who are consultant strategists or elected officials. They, they just don't have that thing where they understand that like, you know, advertising works because it appeals to something beyond like our rational thought, you know, like they're trying to get you to buy something right, you don't need. Yeah. How does that work? You know, so like that's, that's, that's, that's the thing that I think Democrats just don't fully get is that like this isn't, this isn't about like giving someone an idea. It's about selling it. And like, how do you sell something? There's been times where I've been like in Miami and a room full of like mannisfir type creators and someone just like said, like you're voting for Trump, right? And I was like, no. And like, you know, I might as well have said I was a fucking axe murderer. Oh, really? It's the way that like that was received. And they're like, you're voting for Kamala. And I'm like, yes. And it's just like the craziest vibe switch in that room. But, but, but, but they'll still fuck with you, right? They'll still fuck with me in some way, but it's clearly a line is drawn in the sand at that moment. Interesting, because I feel like on the left, if it was a group of left wing creators and someone said I'm voting for Trump, it would be like, what are you doing? Get out of here. Yeah. You have to leave. Yeah. So I think, I think that's also an interesting, but, but if you're saying that there was like a vibe shift, that's interesting to me. Definitely a vibe. I'm talking about like some of the guys who are in that like Netflix mannisfir documentary where it's like, that could still accept me as a dude because it's not like me saying that really like affects what our conversation is like while we're all hanging out. It doesn't mean that I can't trust me, but it's just it like negates my manhood in such a serious way to them. Interesting. Yeah. Like I'm not a real man because I'm a Democrat. Like you're very, you get kind of used to that in those circles that that's the vibe that they'll leave you with. When did that shift? With Trump. Yeah. For sure. Because I even think I remember back to like 2016 and stuff. YG puts out fuck Donald Trump, which was this big hit record at that time and no controversy. Every person in hip hop was like on board with that song. Donald Trump sucks. And then you fast forward to like, you know, 2024 and that song just feels way different because if you're at like a sort of hip hop concert or whatever, it just feels like the brand of masculinity is just so in lockstep with Trump at this point that just something fundamental has really, really changed. That's interesting. I wonder, but, but I guess like the one thing is if it shifted that quickly, it can shift again. It definitely can. And I think, I think Trump's like, it's just so crazy to me to think about how many people sat on this podcast and told me that they were Trump supporters and especially when it's coming from black dudes, like they're aware of the fact that this is a kind of classic viewpoint to take on. And they like that. You know, they like saying that they're a rebel. And like, of course, I am not falling in line with the Democratic Party who thinks that they own the black vote. And none of those people are bringing up any conversation about Trump at this point or even throughout like the last six months, you know, it's just doesn't, there's no follow up. It's just like they, they're happy to support him. And now that he's doing a bunch of shit that they don't agree with, it's just but yeah, yeah. I mean, that's the frustrating thing. Yeah. It's the frustrating thing. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how to solve that problem. But, but I think that is the thing is like Democrats used to be the counterculture party. We used to be the people who would get folks pissed off. Yeah. And now it's kind of the opposite, you know, and it is fun to be like, you know, the rebels. Yeah. You know, definitely. So I get it. For sure. Um, do you think that a clavicular is being funded by Peter Teal? And one I understand. No, I don't think he is. Okay. So that's, I mean, I see people like gossiping about it constantly. When I was around him, I didn't want to. I feel like I've heard pretty definitively. He's not. Okay. Yeah. So no, it's hard. It feels weird that Peter Teal would want to invest his time and energy into someone who is so, for the most part, not political. And has really made that like extremely clearly. He's walking out of interviews. Like a drug addict. Yes. Like he's, you know, you got to show up to work. Right. So I don't think. I mean, the idea of this like billionaire gay man wanting to fund clavicular, who's like constantly hounded by rumors of him being gay, despite the fact that he's like seemingly having sex with a different woman every night on stream. Well, he reads kind of effeminate. Yeah. To me. For sure. Like I can see like he seems gay. And I heard so many gay people say that, that I'm forced to believe it, even though I know he's not yet, but he seems gay. Yeah. I mean, the extreme interest in how you look. The way he talks, I think he talks gayer than me. Really? Yeah. He's got like a really effeminate way of. Existing. Interesting. I didn't really get that from him, but I could see it for sure. Like there's certain clips, the clip of him wearing the glasses where he's surrounded by girls. I mean, I still see that quote tweeted like daily of people just saying that this is somehow like definitive proof that he's gay. Yeah. Well, he's not. Yeah. But it's okay. You know, you can be straight and sound gay. It's okay. Definitely. But the best quote tweet I've seen in recent memory or no, it was just like a tweet. It was somebody saying like, oh, you support gay businesses, but you won't support Palantir or gay owned businesses or something. That's true. That's pretty good. That's good. Yeah. That's like, that's like signing up for OnlyFans saying I love supporting small businesses. Hmm. Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, a lot of, a lot of girls on OnlyFans really are the smallest business you could ever imagine. So support small business. Does make sense. Um, okay. So, um, I guess, uh, I wanted to ask about, uh, your dating life. I heard you were attached to a Jake Shane at some point. No, uh, no, well, we want to, we want an eight, we want an eight date. Okay. We want an eight date. Okay. I think I messed it up. Really? I messed it up. How would you do? Well, I, I went on, we got connected to a friend because I put on my close friend story, like, I think this guy's cute. And then someone that I know knew him. He was like, do you want me to connect to you? I was like, sure. And then we went on a date and I thought it went pretty well, but, uh, we were supposed to hang out the following day and I didn't like, I didn't confirm that until like six o'clock when we were supposed to hang out at nine. Okay. And so then I, he had already made other plans. Okay. And then that was it. That was it. Yeah. But we like made out on the street. You made out on the street. Well, it sounds romantic. Is it? I don't know. It seems kind of like, it feels not romantic, but, but it happened. Were you sprung at that time? Did you think like, Oh, this might, this might be the one. I was really interested. Really? Yeah. I was like, yeah, I caught a feeling. So, but, you know, whatever that happens. And I tried texting him while I was here and no response. Do you feel at all ostracized in Washington as a gay man or is that kind of old school at this point? No, I don't even think about it. Okay. Yeah. No, don't think about it at all. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that kind of says a lot, but. It's almost like an absurd question, right? I guess. I mean, but that's just me. Yeah. You know, it might not be the case for everyone. Right. I, I'm constantly coming out. So I'm not, I'm not as worried again getting clocked as they say, you know, because you don't really like read gay. I don't, that's what I've been told, you know, whenever I'm, I, you know, my audience is always growing. So I'll say occasionally I'm gay and a lot of people will be like, what? You know, they don't care, but they're like, I had no idea. Right. I was like, well, yeah, well, I'd never mentioned it. So, but that maybe that's part of the reason why, but I, but I don't know. Like I don't know what it's like to be like a gay black man, you know, trying to work in politics, for instance. Who's like effeminate. Maybe that's harder. Do you, do you have any aspirations to actually run for office at some point or be involved in that? I'll just say like never say never, but I, I enjoy what I do right now. Hmm. But does it stand out to you that you probably enjoy your life a lot less if you were to go into politics in that way? Well, I think that's like the, one of the best ways you can make a difference is by being in the rooms where big decisions are made. Right. So I don't know. I don't, I don't, I, but I do believe like if God wanted me to do that, then it'll happen, you know. It would be fascinating to see someone who was like really in office and really maintaining like a consistent YouTube presence. Can you imagine if I'm like breaking news, Donald Trump just farted. And the next day I'm like voting on a procedural bill in the Senate. I mean, do you think that that would be hard to pull off? I mean, like what you do does take a lot of time. Those would probably be the biggest issue. I think it had, I think, yeah, if you, if you're a politician and you have a YouTube channel, I think it just has to change. The type of content you're doing is it changes. Like you're not doing breaking news content, but certainly there's a way to do it. When you read a tweet from somebody who works in politics, for the most part, do you just assume that it wasn't written by them? I was listening to you with the Gavin Newsom conversation and you were kind of acknowledging that at a certain point, you just like went to work basically writing tweets for organizations. But quite frequently, I'm just like, does this guy seriously have time to just sit down and write this tweet in the middle of the day? It just seems kind of unlikely. Who are like Gavin? Just certain politicians. But Gavin, sure, yeah, like, I mean, he's got a lot going on. It's not like it's 20. Yeah, I mean, how long does it take a great tweet? Yeah. Right. But the perfect tweet that like, you know, well, that's the problem. There's no perfect tweet. Right. You should really just be writing your own stuff. Right. That's how I feel. I mean, I know popular musicians that have people that like work for them that just write tweets about whatever. Well, I guess that were, I mean, it just depends the type of politician you are, the type of artist you are. I write my own tweets still, even though I could have a social media person do it, just because I just think it's really just it's like another way of talking to people. And I do think that as we keep going, like it really, really should be the politicians who are who are like, it's basically like giving a speech. It's like a small, short snippet of like. But most politicians don't really write their own speeches, too. So I know, it's a problem. Yeah, it's a problem. And but that's that's kind of how we got here, because it's all so fake. It's also theatrical. It's also made up that Donald Trump kind of just like broke through the fourth wall and said this is all theater. It also just stands out so much that like politicians are some of the last like big public figures who are still tweeting consistently. Like it's just not like celebrities don't tweet ever anymore. No, I mean, there was a study that showed that that was because Elon Musk bought Twitter and completely changed it. Hellscape. Yeah. Yeah, but it used to be celebrities treated the most. Yeah, I was actually and that is somewhat true of all social networks, I think, in the sense that people just don't really see as much value to be deprived from to derive from creating content on social media. But like I was watching this YouTube video that a guy I know made about Jonah Hill yesterday and at one point, Jonah Hill had a public controversy because Don Lemon attempted to say hi to him in a hotel lobby. And I guess Jonah Hill was kind of rude to him and didn't really acknowledge him. And Don Lemon just hopped on Twitter and tweeted about how rude Jonah Hill was in this moment and just reading those tweets. It just felt so quaint of like, Holy fuck. I remember when celebrities thought that it was appropriate to use Twitter to call out other celebrities and like, like Rihanna. Yeah. Rihanna was so good at Twitter. Right. She was so good at it. But you can't imagine Jonah Hill ever hopping on Twitter anymore. Yeah. No. I don't know if Don Lemon's actually like off that, but even with him, like he's just not going to take some petty personal grievance like that to Twitter. It just feels totally inappropriate. Maybe your Instagram story, even that. Instagram stories is where a lot of the action happens now. Yeah. And I think TikTok, I think TikTok has taken a lot of the like Twitter used to be really cool because you'd like, you'd have a sense of what's happening. Like what's the biggest thing happening in the country and sometimes in the world. And that's really what we've lost now is I don't really feel like you have a, it used to be that Twitter was like, it was just like this ongoing narrative of like funny things happening, interesting things you're being brought into. Doesn't exist like that anymore. But I think TikTok is kind of that. I'm not really on TikTok though, are you? I, my wife was telling me the other day that she's trying to read X amount of books this year. And I told her I want to look at TikTok for an hour a day. She looked pretty disgusted by that. But I really feel like I need to pay closer attention to TikTok because just given what I do, you know, like I see Logan Paul interviewing some guy who's super viral on TikTok and I have no fucking clue he is. I've realized like, oh, this guy has millions of followers on TikTok from doing whatever kind of content. Like that's where a lot of the stars are born these days on social media. It actually really stands out to me that what you do is way harder in modern times because of TikTok. Like doing your exact content but making, you know, one or two minute versions of it for TikTok would probably be so much easier. Having a YouTube audience for that kind of content I think is more difficult now because the content is less bite-sized. You know, getting people to watch 10 minute videos is way harder than getting them to watch a one minute video. Well, yeah, I mean, well, they're watching on their TV. Yeah. They're not watching on their phone. And that alone means that this is like a replacement for them watching Netflix, which is, you're competing with Netflix as opposed to a bunch of other talking heads on TikTok. Yeah, I'm competing with Warner Brothers. Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. But, but, you know, people watch me and then they're also scrolling on their phone. You know, yeah, a lot of that. But it's not, it's, no, it's, I wish I made vertical videos. It sounds easy. I mean, you could probably get somebody to take your YouTube content. I tried. It doesn't work. It doesn't really. It really doesn't seem like a translate? It doesn't do as well. No, I mean, I don't, I don't, maybe it's maybe it's like a skill issue. Maybe it's a me problem. But they do want you to make content in-app. Like if you're using TikTok to film it. Does that make a difference? I don't think it matters. Does it really matter? It makes a difference. Clearly, it's not like a complete difference. It's not like a one-to-one thing, but for sure it makes some sort of difference. Or when you watch somebody and they're clearly recording the video, like sentence by sentence, and they have to reach over and press stop every time they say a sentence, which just really stands out to me. It's like, how the f*** are you not cutting that out? But yeah, it's part of the language they have going on over there, I guess. How do you feel when you see your peers? Sorry, I guess maybe it's not your peers, but like just the internet. In general, using Charlie Kirk's death as a punchline. And even after all these months still, like a lot of people making memes out of this. I don't like it. I don't like that. My sister died, you know, my sister was murdered. And so I don't like that. I do f*** with making fun of Erica Kirk. Because I think the way she's acted has been bizarre. I know that everyone grieves differently. But I don't think grieving, I don't think what she's doing has been helpful for her, honestly. And I do think she has weaponized his death in a way that's kind of disgusting. And she's also capitalized off it to make money. So I don't like making fun of his death. I think it was, you know, I don't think Charlie Kirk was a good guy. You know, I don't think he deserved to be murdered in front of, you know, the entire world. Right. Definitely. But it does, it feels like the joy that a lot of people on the left get out of making memes out of Charlie Kirk is very much like a response to the unabashed cruelty of the right of like, we're doing this because we need to call attention to how hypocritical you guys are when you'll let Trump like literally do anything. I don't know. Maybe I just think people are shit posters. I just think that's a lot of shit posters. Who even knows? Like what prominent Democrat or political content creator on the left has made fun of Charlie Kirk's death? Yeah, almost nobody who's really well known at all. Somebody like Destiny who's like a streamer, but like, okay, like he's like an admittedly like mega edgy. He's like a provocateur too. But like Donald Trump literally has celebrated someone's death. Yeah. He's over and over. He's a president. So I don't know. I just think we're kind of maybe putting too much emphasis on random people on the internet. Yeah. And not enough on the actual leader of the free world. I also just when I see somebody making a meme where they take Charlie Kirk's head and put it on a picture of Chief Key from 2011, I just don't think that that's really like getting to the right. Like I don't know how much of that they're seeing or if they get it. You don't think that's changing hearts and minds? I don't think that they on average have the understanding of the world to know what those memes represent. And it's just like, I doubt it's like ending up in a lot of their feeds. No, I mean, I don't, yeah, no, I don't think, I think you're right. Yeah. And I don't think it's helpful. Yeah. But I don't know, there's always going to be shit posters and I don't know, there's always going to be like memes. But I don't, but there has not been many people on the left who are like prominent, who have like celebrated his death. But from what you see Elon Tweet, you would think that every Democrat in Congress was posing memes about Charlie Kirk's death. Like they love to lean into this. I know, but that's the thing. Doesn't that bother you? It's like that they're just, I just think they think we're so stupid. Yeah. Like they have no respect for us. The amount of lies. Yeah. I've seen Elon Tweet 10 times about how the guy that was attempting to murder Trump is like, Oh, the Democrats want you dead and like look at what they will do. Yeah. Like that guy represents the average Democrat. And I'm sorry, but. Your average Democrat's like a 50 year old wine mom. Right. I just feel like that, it feels like that messaging doesn't go anywhere. Much as Elon has the biggest account on the biggest, well, not the biggest social network, but a very, very big social network that is very important. It feels like he says these things that should be mocked and at least discussed. And then nobody cares or talks about them at all, which it feels like that's important. I mean, I know, but that's, I don't know. I don't know how to solve for that, but you're right. Like I just think we're so used to the lies. Yeah. We're just used to them just lying all the time. It doesn't impact, I don't think the broader electorate, but I do think it like revs up Republicans, you know, and it does create that feeling of division, like that they think that people like me want them dead. Yeah. Like I think there's probably a, I don't know if it's a majority, but I imagine there's a lot of Republicans who think that Democrats just want Republicans dead, which is just not true. Yeah. It's, it's, it's insane. It's an insane thing to say. It's an insane thing to say when you can't find a example of anybody who's in a, you know, in government, like the best example, like if we asked chat right now is going to be such a stretch. Yeah. It's, it's just insane people. It's just, we have a problem with guns and access to guns and we have an insane people shouldn't be allowed to get access to them. That's kind of the problem. What do you feel when like I was watching the Sam Harris, Ben Shapiro conversation that Ben Shapiro, you know, he mentions Hassan at least once or twice and it feels like they're kind of leaning on him to paint this picture of the Democrats as being very, very extreme and all the most fringe things that he's ever said on stream will now be recontextualized to like, I don't know, maybe actually affect the next presidential election. Like, is that surprising? Do you think that that should change how Hassan communicates? Like, even if he doesn't want to, because he's just such a big voice at this point. What is he, I don't, I truly don't know what he said that is like so extreme, but when you stream 10 hours a day each day, seven days a week, you're going to not say everything perfectly. Right. So I don't know, like the, I don't think, like Donald Trump had dinner with Nick Fuentes. Although he was kind of duped into it by Kanye, just dragon. Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. Poor Donald Trump. Well, I mean, I just, I don't think we have like a reason to believe that Trump actually knew that he was going to be there or had any idea who he was. But that to me is even worse, that they're letting such an important person just have dinner with whoever. It's not, it's not a good answer either. So I don't know. I mean, I think Hassan Piker is not a bad person. I think he has views that are antagonistic of some people who are center left, some people on the right, but I don't think that he is someone that we should not engage with because we, because some folks disagree with him. Right. You know, but I also don't think he speaks for Democrats at all. Well, he admittedly like is not a Democrat. No. Encourage people not to vote for Kamala. I don't think he did that. I think what he had the very least said, like either candidate that you vote for, you're going to get the same outcome, which that seems kind of laughable at this time. You did say that. Yeah. But I mean, like, you know, there's a lot less pressure on Republicans to divorce the more extreme right wing people from their party. Laura Lumer is a crazy person. She literally calls the president. Yeah. She's a crazy, she has literally her family. Like what is it called when you put someone in the mental like they like 51 50. Yeah. They did that to her. Really? Yes. So I don't know. I think we're focused on the wrong stuff. Yeah. You know, I don't know why, why, why more liberal leaning people have such a hard time controlling the narrative because Laura Lumer literally who is like texting and calling the president, but she's like not useful to the left. Whereas it would appear that Hasan is pretty useful to the right. Their audience is just going to eat the shit up. In terms of like the most extreme things he ever said are going to be like recontextualized to basically be viewed as like the average Democrat. Yeah. But I mean, Laura Lumer said 9 11 didn't happen or it was like a false flag or something. Yeah. Right. So I don't know. And even as you say it, we both know that they won't care. No, they won't care. That's a crazy world. Okay. So what do you have going on besides just the YouTube channel and what's the future of the YouTube channel like things that you haven't done that you'd like to start working on going forward? I don't know. That just stressed me out. I don't know. I don't know. You're in the constant race to keep the YouTube channel relevant. That makes it hard to think about other things outside. We're talking about a podcast, which technically I have a podcast. It's like the number 150th most watched podcast on Spotify, even though it's not technically a podcast, but like something long form. I think there's going to be a long form moment. I think we're talking about a book at some point. So there's like that sort of stuff. But I truly, I truly believe that it's just going to like this is like a child. You know, do you have children? One five year old daughter. Yeah. Okay. I don't have children. But I imagine being a good parent is just being like, you try to expose the child to as many things as possible. And then the child figures out who they are. I kind of feel like that's like the same thing with this is like, I don't know what it's going to be, but it's my job just to try as many things as possible. And the path will reveal itself. Does the book thing feel weird? Because probably, you know, you could write the most explosively popular video and it's not going to be seen as by as many people as view like your worst performing video this month, probably, right? What do you mean? If you do a book, it's like, you know, you're probably not going to sell 100,000 copies, whereas you probably look at a YouTube video with 100,000 views as not particularly successful. Yeah, but it allows you to talk about a subject. In a really in depth way. And then you also get to promote the book where you get to talk about the ideas. True. There's a lot of different types of people. Right. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. But my goal is to not make a book that's like Trump bad. Trump bad by my book. There's enough of those. There's a lot of those. I want to create something that hopefully will be useful and can help people. Definitely. Okay, Keith, very nice getting to know you. Yeah, thanks for having me. Everybody out there. Definitely tune into his channel. He's got a lot of good content out there. No, my camera is a bit holla. Yeah, it could be any camera at any given moment. Yeah. Thanks for sharing, man. Yo, I appreciate your time. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. Keith Edwards, No Jumper, Coolest Podcasts in the World. Check us out on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, etc. Like, comment, subscribe and shout out to our members. Thanks, man. Thanks.