How Will the Nuggets Survive Without Nikola Jokic?

All right, coming up on the Zach Lowe show right after this. It's 2026. Happy New year, everybody. We got a lot to talk about. We got Adam Morris from DNVR sports in the All City podcast with our guy Tim Leckler. He's a nuggets expert. A lot of stuff going out with the nuggets. A lot of people are hurt. How do they survive without Yokecatch? Where are they going to be in the sandings when he comes back? What do we think of the 65 game rule? What if he doesn't make it? What does that do to the MVP race? All of the MVP race all NBA, all that stuff. We're going to talk about that. We hit tanking again and the jazz situation all star. Isla Braun not going to make the all start team and then Moe to Kiel and I bounce around everything else going on in the NBA. The Palo Bancare issue when B suffering what we hope is a tiny little injury and how he's fitting in the Spurs offense that was worrying around those guards while he was out and coming off the bench. The state of the east. Does anyone is anyone afraid of the nicks? Should they be? Are the calves back? What's going on with Palo Bancare and the magic Boston Toronto Philly. We talked trade stuff. What's going on with training? Anthony Davis. We get into everything that's going around the NBA with Moe to Kiel. That's all coming up on the Zacklow show. I hope you guys enjoy it. Welcome to the Zacklow show. Happy 2026. The New Year is here. We're almost at mid season and there's a lot going on specifically with the Denver Nuggets at Amaris DNVR sports all city podcast with Tim Legler. You are the guy I go to for all things nuggets. How were you? How did you ring in the New Year? Well, ring it in. I would say uneventfully just kind of hanging out at the house, which is the way I prefer it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it with the DENFER Nuggets. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it with the DENFER Nuggets. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it with the DENFER Nuggets. The way I prefer it. That way when it's over. You just walk right up stairs and go to bed. But no, it's I'm enjoying the NBA season. I'm excited to be on here. I feel like it's been a very entertaining one. And I'm kind of curious if you feel the same way. I just think there's a lot of good players, a lot of good teams. And I don't always feel this way on January 1. It definitely got Okay, so the thunder bleed blood and the spurs might be here already. What's going on? Like the West is this good and there's been some Cleveland stuff. Philly's getting healthy. There's a lot of stuff going on here, right? It's fun. But I rang in the new year, well, pre-new year at the, I'm not calling it the Scotia Bank Center. Screw you, Scotia Bank. I don't care. You'll never sponsor the Zackelo show now. It's the air candidate center. Yes, I realize air candidate is also a corporation. But still watching your Denver Nuggets win a gritty, ugly, fun game against the Raptors, the first game since Nicole Yoka, Chyper extended his knee. He will be out a month. And David Adelman, I ran into him a little bit after the game. He was buzzing from that win. A little worried about Valentinus. He went out with the calf strain. That's the last thing that nuggets need is like another center to get injured. But this is going to be, this is unprecedented territory for the nuggets. You'll get you never get started. You never miss his games. Obviously, they're also down Christian Brown, Aaron Gordon, Cam Johnson. I think Brown and Gordon are getting closer from what I've heard. Maybe in the next two weeks, Max, hopefully. But Adam, I'm sure you've dove into this. Like, the schedule is not hard, but it is very crowded. They play 15 games in the next 25 days. They've got Brooklyn, Washington a couple of times, the Mavs, the Pelicans, the Bucks, the Hornets. So it's not like our murderers, but it's just a lot of games down a critical mass of starters. And when Yoka first got hurt, I looked at the schedule. I looked at the standings. And my first thought was, well, they're going to drop in the standings. Are they at risk of actually falling to seventh? And falling into the plan. And does that even matter? Last nights, when doesn't necessarily change my feelings that they are going to slide in the standings, does it change your feelings at all? I think in a weird way, that first game is the easiest because the other teams don't quite know who you are either. So you almost have an element of surprise. I mean, Denver started Jalen Pickett last night, which I doubt Toronto was prepared for. And there's just some weirdness that happens whenever a team loses a key piece, like Yokich and like all the starters that they've lost. So it doesn't change my perspective at all. Other than I know why David Adelman was buzzing, every win is going to feel like that. For the next four weeks, every win is going to feel like, my God, we avoided a disaster. And last night, by the way, literally, the avoided a disaster by 0.1 seconds, almost getting that game sent to overtime. So so no, it doesn't change my perspective, but you just said they fall to seventh. Absolutely. I think there are only four games in the lost column up. That is not, you know, that's one bad week, two bad weeks away from falling there. And in the West right now, teams just don't seem to go on extended losing streaks. So first of all, the Ingram shot to end the game was absolutely incredible. I was at the game. My family was at the game. My daughter and her cousin were at the end. They got to meet the Raptor before the game. No Yokich, but we got to meet the Raptor against some photos with the Raptor. And it was one of the only buzzer beaters of that ilk where I don't know how you were watching it or where you're watching I assume at home or something. It was one of the only buzzer beaters of that ilk where me and all the people I was sitting with and there were some NBA people I was sitting with too. It did not cross our minds that it came after the buzzer. It didn't feel like that. It was everybody went crazy. It was like, all right, we're going to overtime on New Year's Eve, I guess. And then Zarbak comes up. I was like, oh, I didn't, it looked good to me in real time. I did to the point that I didn't even think that it was no good. And like, there weren't even a lot of Denver people waving no good, no good, no good. It was a crazy shot. Yeah, I was the same for me. I didn't, I didn't think that until they were going to the review and they're like, what are they reviewing? What is that that's going on? Like, oh, maybe he didn't get it off in time. But to set the stage for this, just so people know, Bruce Brown was in Toronto. I don't think it went well. You know, he does. We were joking at the game. That was the, those two Miss free throws are the biggest contributions Bruce Brown is made to the Toronto Raptors. So it is career. I don't think it went well. I don't think he has fond memories of that time. I don't think it's anything personal with anyone guy or anything like that. But I don't think he thinks fondly of that. So to miss two free throws, one of which would have sealed the game to miss both of them and then having him hit that shot. I have to imagine that was the lowest feeling he's had in quite a while. And the most relief he's felt in a while when he saw that the shot was late. How has there not been some NBA content creator who has capitalized on the hype around Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey? How has no one made a video of Bruce Brown's The Odyssey coming back to Denver with YoKitch's The Spouse waiting for him? And you could just make up up, make up all the characters, the sons David Adelman could be somebody. It's it's sitting right there for people. Anyway, enough. To your point, if Denver goes five and 10 in their next 15 games, and I think that's like not implausible. If you told me they went eight and seven, I would say I'm pretty surprised. They managed eight and seven given all these dudes that are out. If they go five and 10 Phoenix goes nine and six, they have the same record. Minnesota only has to go 500. They have the same record as Denver. So falling to seventh or sixth is totally in play. And yet I actually don't care because I don't I think five is five and 10 optimist, secret pessimistic to you. It's I think a little pessimistic five five is on the low end of what I would hope for I think, but I mean, to your point, they're down four starters. They'll get a couple of these guys back soon. The entry to Big Val that you kind of referenced just a second ago is a big deal because we were joking about this the other day at DNBR who starts when they play tomorrow night. Is it your own homes who just played his first NBA game, his real NBA game last night? He might be the best option to start at center tomorrow. That's how depleted they are. So five is on the low end, but it's certainly in play. Yeah, I would agree. If you if you I would say I wonder what Vegas would send it over on drive like six and a half. Maybe it feels like a good one. Seven and a half. I don't know. But I don't care because even if they do go five and 10 and all those other teams tie them, catch them, whatever. When your catch comes back, they're going to start winning at their normal pace again and they're going to pass some of those other teams. By the way, the Lakers are in just a morass of suckage right now and I don't have a huge amount of faith in them to pile up like a 10 and five record of the next 15 games. And I actually don't think that nuggets care much about seating. I don't get the sense that they care much about seating having talked to a bunch of their people in the last couple of days here. And in fact, if they somehow ended up in six at the end of the season, which I think is wildly pessimistic, but just say it's worst case scenario. They end up in six being on the opposite side of the bracket from Oklahoma City is not a bad consolation prize for them. I think the four or five thing is a little bit more interesting and having to play them in the second round. But I don't think they care about any of this because I do get the sense that I'm sure you guys you do two being around them much more than I am. I think they're an inner circle title contender. They think they're an inner circle title contender when they get healthy. And I think they're really excited about what this team could be when they get brown, Gordon, Yoke, Johnson, back. I think they were excited about what Cam Johnson was developing into within their system in the last couple of weeks before it got hurt. And I think they're hopeful. They're going to learn something about picket, homes, you know, Watson is going to be able to stretch himself. He took a lot of tough twos last night, made a lot of them too, tried to dunk on the world a couple times. And hope that something sort of can be brought out of this stretch into the healthy stretch. Like I think this team, they were the biggest threat to Oklahoma City before the season. And despite what disperged as the local city, I think Denver is the second best team in the NBA and really not that far from Oklahoma City when they're all healthy because they have the ultimate trump card. And it's a big fellow. I 100% agree. And we this is the thing about the nugget season. As we saw enough, we before the injury started to pile up, we saw enough of them to say it just looks different. The game was easier to them. They were getting up by double figures in every single game. The real challenge was focus, you know, they would they would allow a team back into it in a third quarter before putting them away and winning. But they just looked like the best version of themselves. I know that 2023 team, they won the title. So they're always going to get that mark, but they looked every bit as good and better as a regular season team until the wheels started to come off. And even when they lost Aaron Gordon, who's a huge piece in Christian Brown, who's a big piece, even when they lost them, they didn't skip a beat. So I think Denver has to feel great about themselves. The difficulty of this season of the 82 game season is that you lose guys and then you go these long stretches really half the year where you don't have your team and you're just trying to survive. Denver's unfortunately going to have to play, you know, maybe a third of their season here coming up where the games don't matter except for win just win and maybe like you said, figure something out about some of these end of bench guys. I like homes. I mean, homes is going to make shots. They're very confident in that. Is is Zekinaji like where is Zekinaji? Yeah, he was he was a DMP last night, which was interesting. Eight man or a few. Yeah, if he can't get into these games, it's really and truly over for for the Zekman. Yeah, I mean, look, the optimism I think has justified the one nagging thing is you always worry about you don't want to burn Jamal Murray out in this stretch because the burden of shot creation is going to fall real heavy on him and also Tim Hardaway Jr. who's probably like super psyched about all the burden being shoved onto him. And just, you know, you hope that Aaron Gordon when he comes back is as over the leg issues, cafes was the calf or hamstring. I can't remember. Well, it's well, yeah, maybe related, right? And you always have in the back of your mind like recurrence could always happen and without him, I mean, he's just one of the skeleton keys of the NBA for their team, but I love this team. It's going to be a rough stretch. It's such a bummer that Yoke just hurt. But I don't really worry about where they are in the standings at the end of this because I think they'll be fun. The West is going to be hard for everybody. I do think if you're a one seed there, I'm just looking at who might be an eight seed and you might get a golden state if they get it together. You might get a little bit of a weaker team there, but one through seven is just tough. And so you're going to get a tough matchup. I will say Jamal Burnout is probably my number one concern over this next month, but even more so than dropping in the standings. It's just how much does he have to empty the tank right here to lead up to Yoke's return. And then, you know, Aaron Gordon has been in and out of the lineup for a year and a half now. It's not just that he got injured this year. It was all of last year. And so for me, it could just be a fluke thing, but it is something I look at and say how long can he even last four playoff rounds? I think he can. You want to give a guy a benefit of the doubt, but I'm not sure that his body can hold up for two and a half months of intense basketball just because we haven't seen it now for two years. Yeah, the playoffs are, it's just impossible to overstate what a grind they are. When you start playing every other day, highest intensity, best opponents, heaviest minute loads, all of the national attention on you. You know, it's why LeBron being 41 years old is like almost just qualifier for the Lakers setting aside all their issues now, being a legit contender in the West because he's not going to make it through a season and four playoff rounds at anything close to intact. Let's talk about the 65 game rule, which is going to be under the microscope because Yoke chit played every game. And if he misses the exact four weeks, he'll be right at 65 games. And four weeks is the re-evaluation period. Now, you also never know, right? Like Janice came back a bunch earlier than he then it was the timetable was from this recent cap injury. And by the way, after the game last night, I will say being around all the nuggets people, there was not a, there, JV will get tested and do all the MRI stuff when they get to Cleveland. I mean, Cleveland are they fine to Cleveland today? But there did not seem to be a huge amount of concern that this was going to be like a major long-term cap injury. There seem to be optimistic. But again, you never know what timetables, but 65 games on the dot seems optimistic if the re-evaluation date is a month out. And so that would one more game missed. And he's out for all the honors, notably most valuable player and first team all NBA. I have never been a big fan of the 65 game rule. I wasn't super passionate like anti the rule. I understand why they did it. Part of the reason I wasn't super, super passionate about it was it's just, it's going to be hard to win the MVP if you only play 63 games, 64 games, regardless of whether there's a rule or not. However, all NBA is and has always been different to me, which is why one of my complaints about the rule was, can you at least like for, I've said this repeat it like for third team all NBA, can you at least lift the rule because I don't want to sit here and be like, well, Kevin Durant and Nicole Eokitch played 59 in 63 games. So I guess, hey, Julius Randall, here's your third charity all NBA appearance of your NBA career. Like we all know these guys are better. Can I just like once you get to 50 or some requisite minimum, can you just give me the freedom to do that? But I like if he plays 64 games, there's no question he should be first team all NBA. I will say 64 games, let's say SGA plays 81, he's missed only one game so far plays 80. I do think it's going to be hard to even rationally argue that Eokitch and 64 games put up more quote unquote value than SGA in 80 games. But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm ready to just abolish the rule. I'm ready to get rid of it. I never loved it to begin with. I always wanted more freedom for 13 all NBA. But like there's no question 64 games of Eokitch is the first team all NBA player like zero question. I mean, I think that part of is very true. I mean, I'll start by just saying that if you make a change to this rule, it has to be done in the off season. And I say that because I have, I do, I can already hear all of the people that are on the other side of all of these debates on the Eokitch MVP debates that say, well, now that it's him, you want to change the rules midstream. And I think that is unfair. But well, no, there's, no, there's no way you can do it in the season zero chance. So I just wanted to set the table there. So it's, you know, because I, this isn't something I've thought about a lot. And obviously now that it's happening with Eokitch, you do, you kind of, you, you feel it a little bit more. The all NBA thing is just how you remember the NBA. It's how you tell the story of the NBA season. And to your point, if you start eliminating your derandes and your Eokitches and everybody else and you elevate guys that are like, that's not the story of the NBA. He just with the last guy standing that qualified, then I do think we lose something. So I think it's something, certainly something to revisit. It was the rule was made in place because guys were not playing. But guys now, I think the problem with the injury with the NBA right now is almost less load management. And more guys just getting injured and missing a long periods of time. And I don't know how you fix that. Well, it also had the reverse thing where, you know, Haliburton two seasons ago played through an injury, clearly trying to get to 65 games because there's also money involved. That's the other thing. Money's attached to the all NBA stuff. And he was just, remember, whatever I think it's 20 minutes, there were a bunch of games where he played like 20 and 25 minutes. And it was like very transparently. Well, actually not transparently because the Pacers denied it, but it was like very obvious what was happening. I was never a big fan of it. I understand why they did it. And my point was always as a voter now a former voter, maybe a future voter. I'm able to make educated decisions when there are varying levels of games played. Like it's my job as an observer of the NBA to decide whether 63 games of Yokech is more or less additive in value than 74 games of Yannis or whatever. Like I'm capable of doing that. Just just let me do it. And certainly don't make it so that I can't put 64 games of Yokech on an all NBA team. And I've mentioned 13 a bunch of times. They're like the heatbie first team. Like he's just so much better than everyone else except for Shay and he's even better than Shay. Anyway, I want to make one point about awards voting. I think the mistake that, that especially MVP voters get wrong is they think they can see the future. You know, because we followed this for the last five years and so many of the arguments are, well, we can't do that because in five years, what will we think that we did this? You don't know what you're going to think in five years. These guys might be like, Shay, Gil to sell Alexander wins it last year. He might be an all-time great player. He might be a guy that ends up winning six or seven because he deserves it. I think a lot of the votes that people make have to do with, oh, I know how we're going to think about this in years to come. And you always end up getting yourself into trouble for it. That's the big mistake I see with it with the MVP voters and awards voters is people trying to imagine what this will mean 10 years from now. What other before we move on, what other Nugget thoughts should we should we get into? Like, who's had an interesting season or what what player or players are you really curious about how they handle this non-Yokit and non a bunch of other guys' stretch? Well, I think one thing that'll be interesting is when Christian Brown returns, Peyton Watson is such an interesting, Peyton Watson and Christian Brown come into the league together. Christian Brown's more polished, probably a lower upside, less athletic, but he's a guy that immediately understood what the task was. What his job was executed it, one the trust of everyone, and just got paid. Peyton Watson has been phenomenal in that same exact role with more athleticism, which I think is the sneaky missing ingredient that you have to surround Yokit with athleticism, especially you see this in the playoffs when you go up against some of these super athletic teams. Peyton Watson brings them this unique dynamic and Denver kind of has to make a decision about when everybody is back, who plays the most minutes? Do you try to find minutes for Peyton Watson alongside Yokit? And I'm just kind of curious to see how that unfolds and how Denver handles Peyton Watson's futures and is a free agent next year, a restricted free agent. I don't think they can afford him. And so they have the Peyton Watson dynamic of all this, I think is really interesting, especially when Christian Brown comes back. Yeah, they made a decision about which one to prioritize an extension talks. I really like Peyton Watson and it is interesting because on a team with Aaron Gordon, who is now a plus shooter, but teams don't treat him that way quite yet. Christian Brown's an okay shooter. Peyton Watson is shooting 37.5% from three, but it's a juggling act with two of those or three of those guys on the floor all at once. Three would be pretty rare. But I do like I like the aggression that he played with last night. I like him saying someone's got to do it is me or Tim Hardaway right now because Jamal's on the bench like I'm going to see what I can do. And you know, Yokit is is such sort of a big picture thinker that almost more than any player on the team. I feel like sometimes Yokit is kicking the ball to Watson and the unspoken messages man, we're going to need you to take these shots. I trust you to take these shots, take these shots. I'm kicking it to you. Take them. I don't care if you miss. Keep shooting. I think I love that you brought this up because I had the thought it just have watching Yokit all these years when he passed it the other the other day. I can't even remember what the game was off the top of my head where he had a shot at the rim would have been contested. He probably would have made it and he kicked it to Peyton Watson. I thought I'll bet you there's a little thought in the back of his mind of I just want to see what Peyton Watson does in this moment. I want to see if he's a make guy. How he handles it if he misses. And so I'm with you on that. I think that there's a little method to the madness of Yokit and all things. All right, let's talk about the other voting related controversy that is at hand right now is LeBron James is at risk of not making the all-star game for the first time in a thousand years. He is ninth in the fan vote and the way they calculate the starters, which all of this is beginning to break my brain. So we're picking five Western conference starters and five Eastern conference starters, even though those players in a lot of cases will not be teammates because the game is US versus the world and not West versus East. And every all-star discussion has to begin with these fucking five-minute primers about how the game works. Can we just go back to East versus West? Like why is this so fucking hard? They're not going to try either way. Like just like what are we doing? So the Western conference starters who will not be teammates LeBron's ninth in the fan vote and that's 50% weighted for who gets to start. The remaining is 25% media and 25% players. I don't think LeBron is going to make up enough ground in the media vote. Personally, it does deserve to be at all-star this year, just like objectively. That's just true. I'm sorry. So I don't think the media will vote him high enough or the players will be interesting. But I don't think he's going to net out of that as one of the top five Western conference players. Then the coaches picked the next seven players. And it's just you wonder is there going to be sort of a discussion amongst the coaches, who by the way it's always the assistant coaches who are actually filling out these ballots of, hey, are we all the thing that games in LA? He were not like a thousand percent sure he's coming back next year. Are we all should we all put him in or are we all like tired of him? He did sit out the all-star game last year at the semi last minute, which did not earn a lot of good will at NBA League offices. Let's say they don't vote him in because again, he's objectively not one of the 12 most deserving Western conference players this season having missed as much time as he's missed with the sciatica. Then it falls to Adam Silver who has carte blanche to do whatever he wants both replacing injured players of which one might be Nicole Yokech we'll see or he should be healthy by then but who knows or adding like US players if there are not enough of US players versus international players. Traditionally he's gone down the coaches vote and picked like the next guy on the list but he doesn't have to do that. And they have the precedent of him adding Dirk Niewitski in Dwayne Wade in what turned out to be the last year of both of their careers for like a swan song career achievement all-star. Dirk that year had not officially announced his retirement yet. Everyone kind of knew who's coming. Wait, we knew. I don't like I'll bet like I just I'm going to come out saying Adam I'm going to say Adam Silver names LeBron James to the all-star team one way or another. That's my prediction but it is it could be Dicey. It's certainly Dicey as you set the stage for it and then I mean just to be clear he's not one of the 12 best players this year in the Western Conference so I think that that that part is is what makes this so interesting but here's how I look at it and I this might be controversial. This year and this season part of what I am enjoying about it is it feels like the first official it starts with the Thunder winning the championship but it feels like a true changing of the guards. Steph's team has been down. He hasn't had as many great nights as we you know we're accustomed to the warriors are down LeBron is down Kevin deraise with the rockets but you know that team is as much about the young players it is him. He's it's a it's a nice merging of it and we have all these young players that are emerging and into into focus here as guys that we are starting to learn storylines to and and those storylines are going to grow and grow LeBron to me feels like this it's it's it's it's weird to say because he's an all-time great player but he's hanging on in a way that I almost feel is like okay there's other storylines here step beside and the all-star game maybe is the perfect opportunity to say you know what Webin Yama's enough Shaco just out of the standards enough these guys are enough we don't need the LeBron story anymore. It's it's going to be interesting I I would be very surprised if they don't if the league does not find a way to involve him and unless he says unless he says look man I'm old I didn't play last year I don't really want to play right um even though it's in my hometown not in my home arena but in my hometown um we'll see uh but yeah I don't I don't go back next year if he comes back next year maybe he's on a different team maybe he goes to the east do we do this whole thing again and then next year is also the LeBron farewell to her in the all-star game. I'll tell you what I'll tell you up here in Toronto people are fired up about Scotty Barnes and I'd even get into the top 20 of the Eastern Conference uh fan voting results and there's like the Raptors people like is there some sort of glitch and they're like our Canadian votes not being counted right and uh he should be an all-star Scotty Barnes should be an all-star. Okay the last question I wanted to hit with you because you you tackle the whole league on the all-city pod with um with legs is the tanking stuff and I wanted to elaborate on Monday's show I talked about how Utah has the sneaky most interesting subplot in the NBA which is this top eight protected pick that they owe uh the Oklahoma City Thunder which I think is from a Derek favor salary dump if I'm not if I'm not mistaken um and how this is the exact kind of scenario that at least one of the leagues not leagues one of the anti-tanking proposals floating around things like the competition committee is to eliminate these pick protections between top four and top 14 because Utah right now is in the ninth spot in the lottery standings in which they would have an overwhelming chance of losing uh this pick to Oklahoma City um and I talked about how Utah has been kind of frisky particularly when George and Mark and in are both on the floor like almost sniffing a top 10 offense it just beat the spurs and the pistons um then they lost to the Celtics they rested Svima Halu because God knows Sv's been really overworked the last five six years the NBA just huge like three thousand minutes every year they rested Kevin Love um and they rested somebody else in Kerry member and you know I sort of tongue in cheek was like man I kind of wish some of these teams would just let it ride in me the chips forward they may knowing that Utah is almost certainly not going to do that um and I think the most likely path for them is now now to get really comfortable with the top eight protected pick you've got to get all the way to sixth in the lottery standings when you get to the sixth worst record you then have a 97 percent chance if you're Utah of keeping your pick if you're even seventh it's still an 87 percent chance that's really nice if you told me there's a 13 percent chance I'm getting struck by lightning if I leave the house say I'm not leaving the house after that it gets a little easier so can they fall the six yes they can and I think the way they will try to do it is any veteran that any veteran who's not part of their team going forward that they can trade for second round picks or whatever so loves Sv I think Nerkich has been really serviceable for them and the with Kessler already out the drop off from Nerk to like Philip Houskey and just Baron center rotation would be pretty big I think they'll probably try to chip away at the edges couple strategic rests here and there trying to avoid the league the Eier of the league the all encompassing Saur and like I of Sam Presti who you know this is a team that also sat SGA and wharfered strategically for their own tanking purposes years ago um I just think it's interesting it it would be fun to see them go for it I don't know what what is your take on all this because this is going to be all the people are going to be watching the jazz the rest of the year and I think I'm outlining what I think they will do I can't blame them for it as much as I want to sit here and say go for it what's the worst thing you lose the eleventh pick in the draft that's the average return of the eleventh pick in the draft is like maybe a good backup player but if you keep the sixth pick in the draft or whatever it is you got to have faith in your front office the draft a real guy there and they need some guys I get it I get it well here's a couple thoughts I have because I think there's a lot here first of all I think you saw has been tanking all year they're just they're one of my favorite bad teams to watch they're especially early in the year when they had Walker Kessler Kyle Filipowski Larry Markin and Svima Kylo they were playing this enormous lineup that was so wacky and weird and it was fun and they would get up 40 to 20 after one quarter on these teams and then ended up blowing it and losing the game anyway which makes me think they were tanking but my thought on them is I they'll probably lose naturally there's tanking where you're trying to lose games and there's tanking where you're trying to develop young players they have guys like Walter Clayton you know they they have guys they can throw out there who are probably going to lower their odds but in the in the service of beaking those guys better for the years to come and then the big thing for me outside of just wanting to avoid giving Oklahoma City as many lottery picks as you can the other thing is you want a top pick and I know here this draft you know top three guys really strong couple guys after that really strong but I think we're finding value into the first round late first round second round undrafted players at a rate we've never seen in the NBA and I'm not really sure why but if you look around the league there are a lot of guys contributing right out of the package as rookies as role players some that we've always had the Carmelo's and the bronze guys the stars who came in and were ready for it but role players guys who just seem to understand the modern NBA at a really high level there's a lot of AJ Mitchell give me give me some names let's go through some names. Let me just see if I can go through obviously you just look at anybody on the Oklahoma City Thunder they seem to be able to bring in these young guys and then the thing is they have high IQ it's that they're they're coming in understanding the texture of the spacing of the modern NBA and the skill sets Denver has a guy Spencer Jones right now starting for them is a two way player undrafted guy but it's you watch him and you say yeah but that he knows what he's supposed to do he's not particularly skilled but he understands the modern NBA and I think you can go up and down the NBA right now and every team has one guy that is some late first or early second or undrafted player that is contributing Minnesota has a handful of those types of players that are contributing so I just wonder is it worth tanking you know you want to get the there's years where you have to get a number one pick number two pick but all these other years you could find value at the 18th pick is it worth it to not develop your guys just so that you can get the third pick instead of the sixth pick I just don't think it is anymore interesting and to your point about to judge there are a lot of young guys there that they can easily throw him in it's to I've always been a big Taylor Hendrix fan he had that devastating leg injury last year said some flashes this year shot it decently from three I like to see more him Cody Williams at least looks playable now like a little bit more like like he has some idea of what he wants to do when he gets the ball and it's not just like sheer panic and confusion not great but like you drafted him high you're gonna have to throw a minute at some point Clayton you mentioned he dunked who did he dunk on the other day was like oh my god somebody else I think Derek White I think it was Derek White who by the way Derek White's gonna be my pet like Fringe y'all star case I just love what that guy plays so hard and does so many things so well I love that dude it'd be a seven block shots yesterday or was earlier this week at seven he plays so freaking hard and does everything for that team that they need him to do huge huge fan yeah and to your point about watching Utah's rotations just every time I watch them I'm flagging the the minutes when both Kianta George and Lowry Markinan are on the bench those are just a complete sinkhole of points they definitely know it's a complete sinkhole of points and look maybe it's not anything other than we want to maximize the minutes they play together we don't necessarily think like Kianta George by himself is gonna keep our offensive float but you know you know I mean you have lived this with Murray and Yokech like anytime David Adelman right before Yokech's injury was like kind of sitting leaning back into lineups featuring neither of them and they were getting run off the court and those now those minutes are just gonna have to be part of Denver's rotation but I by the way they're your division mates I mean I assume you've seen a lot of Kianta George I that guy's a real guy he's really really good he's got he's got and it's natural too he's got a quickness to him of the attacks naturally the game seems like it's easy for him when he's getting downhill he's got great footwork great handle yeah he's and here's the other thing about tanking for Utah they already have Bailey and they have George that might be your cornerstone if you bring it another third guy and look they would love to do it if you told him they they could take in you know Booser to bans or one of those guys that's a problem they'd gladly have but at that point you have three stars all who are sort of ball in your hand in the hand kind of guys at some point you start to cannibalize your own roster not everybody can be okay see where you get a chat home gran who's happy to kind of play around the periphery and so I even wonder about that with them of some teams have what they need and they have to start moving forward and actually what you need are the eleventh picks and your 15th picks and those guys that are gonna solve fill out your roster so you don't have three max contracts that are all 22 years old well you talk can't get that but picking that range this year so they have to aim for the top eight and I expect them to do so theoretically it's worth mentioning that theoretically the jazz could go the other way and try to add an impact player to their team something they sniffed around I think in the offseason with some some big-ish names I don't sense that's going to happen in the middle of this season and by completely agree on Kianta George the craftiness is the change of pace and he has this like this almost like a throw ahead dribble where he looks like he's gonna pick up his dribble in the paint like when he arrives at the ball and go up for a floater and and defense his bite on it and assuming he's gonna shoot and then he bounces it again and hits like a crazy pocket pass he's just really catching shoot threes way better he's coming off flare screens and all that he has good chemistry with marketing I think this is exactly what it looks like they're gonna get a top eight pick they're gonna bring marketing back keep marketing rather and try to be competitive next year Adam Morris buckle up man this could be a fun month in the mile high city you're ready for a lot of Doron homes you're ready for Tim Hardaway junior getting all the shots he wants who who else we got paid in Watson breaking out there's straw their straights man it's it's dire here out here on the straw their straights he's not getting in these games I've always been a little skeptical of him but he will get his chance here and you know J. Le Pickett it's my guy I love weird players I love I love some booty ball that's what they call it is he backs you down ever so slowly and then finds the open guy so so it'll be weird out here and then refer that I would like more of that because when he was coming into the draft all my scout friends like you're gonna love this guy he's like Andre Miller 2.0 with like this weird old school post game and I feel like I haven't seen enough Andre Miller 2.0 I want to see the full Andre Miller professor Andre Miller PhD experience he played scared I think that I honestly think that city so afraid of may messing up that it's so conservative it's hey hey man get get some booty ball go ahead just be aggressive it's only way you're going in the NBA Adam Morris DNVR sports in all city with our buddy legs is a must thank you for your time but thank you so much happy new year all right let's go around the league with the great mode to kill apparently checking in from the set of forgetting ceremonial mode what's what's happening are you at a tee keep what's happened are you at a bar on the beach where are you not yet I'm it's it's really early here right cuz of the right time right so it's it's still morning time for me yet to to be able to hit the tee key bars but I'm you know visiting the in-laws in Hawaii this is one of the perks of when you marry somebody from Hawaii every time she says we have to go see you know my parents I get to go to Hawaii so I'm never gonna complain about that we're gonna hit a lot of topics but we gotta start with your old one of your old NBA employers the San Antonio Spurs great win over the next last night at home in a game where Julian Champeni went absolutely crazy what a year for the Champeni brothers Justin has been rebounding the hell out of it Washington I think how about two on two Champeni's versus Spencer's at all star weekend how about that how about we lean into the NBA journeyman brothers I love that I love that idea look you know is there can we bring a Lopez can we bring Robin Lopez out of retirement and do just kind of a three-way tournament and have the Lopez brothers go crazy anything is better than watching the Taco Bell skills challenge presented by Poolyan Wheat eater or whatever and sprite all right if the Spurs had been kind of just so so since the Oklahoma City Blitz and I was prepared to talk about like what's going on with the Spurs where we a little premature and crowning the Spurs as contenders and we'll get there but then they pull out that game against the Knicks last night and I think the most interesting thing well first of all when be got injured didn't appear to be serious he was on the bench he was apparently telling people it was all right and he'll be fine and so that's optimistic by a time a seven five giant goes down you worry a little bit and he is he's like falling over a lot and so that's just maybe just life is a seven five guy who has to run and jump for a living but I was the interesting sub plot to me and I want to get you your take on it is you know they start this run with him injured and continue with him coming off the bench and Fox is having probably a career season shooting wise and the young guards are coming into their own castle and Harper and I was interested in sort of like how does Wembee I'm offensively fit in to this like three guard two guard blitzing driving kicking attack and there's been a little hiccups here in there but then last night it looks so pure 31 points before he gets injured what do you think of that whole you know all the Spurs offense was really great without Wembee defensively we know like yeah they're completely different animal with that dude on the floor but what if you thought of him sort of reintegrating now as a starter before it's injury into the offense I think it's really kind of challenging for him to find his spot right and I mean like you know where where is the Wembee is going to operate from out of here in this lineup with where we're going beyond just pick and roll rolling down you know he's cut down on his threes he's he's playing more inside the arc which I think is something everybody was hoping for more of you know from him over the past few seasons we're beginning to see all that stuff I felt like leaning up to the NBA Cup final like it felt like his spot was going to be the free throw line the dark spot kind of area where it felt like that's where he's going to be operating a lot more out of and then it's a little more difficult because that also clogs the driving lanes for the guards right like that kind of like that that makes it a bit harder for you know fox to get downhill makes it a little harder for castle and Harper as well and I think that's that's where you're sort of in that challenging spot I think they're still trying to integrate how to kind of incorporate Wembee spots and I think I think eventually he he is going to operate out of the dark spot we're beginning to see it they kind of want away from it but I think we'll see it come back it's I they got to figure out how to work into that you know and I think that's really the challenge from it and it's it's not sometimes it's off to pick and roll and he gets to that spot but a lot of times when he gets into that high spout high post area it's him coming off of a rim brim right runs down doesn't get anything uh in transition early post up or or anything like that and then he works his way back up to that spot instead of just coming out of a short roll into that spot and I think that's where it's going to be interesting to see how they sort of navigate it it's a it's a fun problem to have when you have these three guards who have been absolutely electric together and I think it's it's it's a great uh issue that they'll have to figure out but this is the problem you want to have if you're this first versus anything else yeah to be clear not a problem and his jump shot looks his three looks good like I it looks smooth it looks good I like expected to go in when he's open um but you know I do think when be depending on who's guarding him and what the context is when be getting the ball in a stagnant situation at the nail is probably not as efficient and offense as I think fans would expect it to be or just like at disguise an apex superstar in the NBA he's he's good at that kind of stuff and he's a great passer and that's one of the skills you want to leverage but as a I think teams should be sort of more okay with him like after the thunder games I talked about how should the thunder just stop screwing around with matchups and put shit on him and see what he can do in that matchup like I'm actually kind of okay with when be going one on one from 18 feet away like show me you can do it in a super efficient way that's more efficient than this other style that you fit into but to your point about the pick and roll castle especially has figured out how just to lob the ball at the rim and any particular picking rolls like NAS dribble under the basket lob it over his head to the rim when he's going to be their empty side pick and roll just get into the middle lob it back to the side I came from when he's going to be there Fox is getting there too um and then he's such a great offensive rebounder because he's so goddamn big all he has to do is like barely bounce off his toes in his second in his third jump but I do think I do think it is an interesting question but there's there's no question that he's going to be in a lead offense player and the defense is much more than worth it I mean he is everybody knows what he is defensively so let me ask you like after the spur swap the thunder I said there they're now a contender they're an official championship contender and Kirk Gold's very asked me what's the ceiling for this team and I straight up said the ceiling is they can win the championship no I'm not picking them to win the championship I'm not picking them to win the West but I'm officially on the spurs kid win the championship train is what I told him then they lose a couple games in a row not great fashion and you start to remember they are very young they are very untested you know they haven't had the playoff growing pains yet I still I'm like if you could beat the thunder three times in a row like that I know it's only the regular season like I'm not I'm not to squalfin you from contender status based on two losses where are you on this so I think first to just kind of go back to like the little malaise they had after beating the the thunder in that three three game run I think some of that was more just like like a letdown of just like they kind of I feel like they amp themselves up so much especially when it was basically a home in home you know for for the the Christmas day game they they got so weempt up for that I think just naturally it kind of drained them a little bit in a way and that's something a young team would do right in in that way and get so high up off of that and that that's going to be the excuse I will give them for the malaise in the way that it and then that was a big win against the nicks yesterday in the way that they came back in that game and and and battle through like that was incredibly impressive with that I think they have a championship ceiling I don't expect it though because it's still there's a whole lot more come playoff time right and it's it's for the majority of this roster it's going to be their first real taste of the playoffs look I know they have Harrison Barnes I know uh cornette you know they've won a championship they've known that you know Kelly Olinix been around Fox has like limited playoff experience he doesn't have a ton of playoff experience as well so I feel like I'm you they they are contenders in the pure fact of life like you said look they've been not just the thunder three times they had a winning endeavor you know during the NBA Cup which is part of it and they pants the thunder twice like two of the three wins were not close yeah and so it's like there's a level of like like that's that's it's there the DNA the the chemistry all that stuff's there it's kind of a line right and perfectly for them once they get to the playoffs you know house castle gonna respond to the intensity of the playoffs you know Harper who's been phenomenal rookie how's he gonna how's when be gonna respond to the intensity of the playoffs I have my theories obviously he's been through Olympics and all that stuff and and it's different when you get to the playoffs in the NBA where it's you know the the defense gets to sit down you know especially in the first round three four days before hit hand and literally pick apart your offense in the spots you want to get to can they you know it comes down to more execution and what do you have figured out and it's also gonna be Mitch Johnson's first time as a head coach in the playoffs like all of this stuff kind of comes you know takes time to sort of develop and you know we have seen examples of teams hey first going in the playoffs and kill it you know I think we always talk about the Phoenix Suns in that regard but we also forget Chris Paul was on that Chris Paul yeah like DNA playoff scars scars scars like on him and understanding kind of that stuff like I don't feel like they necessarily have that's what I'm gonna be curious about and that's a long ways away but like right now you have to look at them and say they're a contender I just don't necessarily think I'm maybe a little bit more of a maybe they're like just a tear below the the contenders for me of like okay see Denver um and and and where they're at but like they're knocking on the door it's funny how you didn't go anywhere beyond Denver because at the very least you've got to give disperse this the list of teams you'd pick over them to win the title is getting shorter and shorter and I would pick both of those teams at full health I just talked about the nuggets with Adam Mars for quite a bit over the spurs if in my like to win the West odds I do think it's a small sample you don't want to overreact to it they've got something against Oklahoma City that nobody else has that matchup looks difficult for the thunder in a way that looked real to me um timing wise the um go ahead just to go just to go to the matchup it's the guards it's the athleticism of the guards that they're able to kind of match the thunder's scars athleticism and almost I think in some cases full on win those battles like in one of the games there was a a play where it was Isaiah Joe on Castle and Castle just bullied him into on his way to the rim and I you know it's just kind of eye opening and like the thunder don't have the athleticism advantage that they have in a lot of matchups with their deaths of guards because the spurs have that as well with a lot of their guards like in the way this team is built I feel like they're on par if not even higher in terms of athleticism strength even and and and and speed in the way what when I'm watching this team and I think that's kind of been the the matchup issue for the thunder that's causing this sort of be a become a real problem for them just as a theoretical discussion only the timing of when B I think Shams described as a slight hyper extension of his knee not expected to be serious not going with maybe you won't even miss a game who knows is is interesting for me personally because I've been at all these games in Toronto and their scouts coming through from all around the NBA and there's you know everyone's exchanging trade talk and trade gossip and all of this and you know Yannis naturally comes up a lot and you will find people smart people who will say regarding the spurs in Wembee you know this school of thought that maybe like the time should be now like you can't necessarily assume this guy of unprecedented size skill mobility is going to be healthy for 10 12 years whatever 15 years whatever it is I don't like to engage in such pessimism I'm just telling you that it is out there in NBA circles and you will find a lot of those people will say I don't really understand why the spurs wouldn't trade Dylan Harper and a bunch of picks and veteran salary filler for Yannis right now we pick one of castle who I've and Harper whoever the spurs think is most valuable make that person to centerpiece get Yannis really go for it now it's just it you you will find people who say that the spurs maybe even the thunder are being too risk of verse when it comes to to the Yannis stuff now I think the thunder parked over here they won the championship they're at the best record whatever I do think that's interesting because the assumption around the league is the spurs are just they're not going to trade any of these guys for Yannis and I think that's probably true and will remain true but it just is interesting that you hear in light of when these sort of I don't even think their health concerns it's just nobody knows what to assume about his longevity that you hear this out there it's it's an interesting sort of thought experiment at least worth engaging in yeah I'm kind of the other way in a way where I don't think they need as big of a piece as as Yannis to be on the championship contender level like I think they have the advantage with the three guards like I'm on the train of keep this as long as possible I'm ready to be clear I'm on that train too I'm generally risk averse when it comes to trading up 10 years in age even when you're also trading way up the NBA hierarchy of talent in Yannis is probably the third best player in the NBA I will also I and what at my my retort to some of these people sometimes is you know he's out with a calf injury now obviously he just came back the less to the fucking wizards less than again we'll talk about that but he has been injured in the playoffs several times in the last five years it's not as if he is a a guarantee of health I just I don't just worth just interesting to me it's also it's also I think it's a tough match with him and when B I think in terms of fear listen defensively nobody scoring so I guess you win every game because you keep everybody at 30 points like I get and that's what that's what the proges be aggressive school will default to is how are you going to score on this team if they're both on the floor if if which is also the one which you alluded to with with the Yannis injuries and stuff but again I just think we just before we got to this part of the the topic we just talked about the more they contenders they're already very very close it's not going to take much for them to really get to that stage we're talking about them in the same breath of okc Denver or maybe just a touch below but in the same breath as Houston started the season where like in like we think well I was high on them I know you were high on them I remember we talked about it even in Vegas we thought they were a top 16 I didn't have them second in the west or or even third in the west like I still felt like they had some growing like they're right there now I don't think you need to just make the massive a single will do right now for them and we'll put can put them in a position another wing like just I'm just throwing out a name I'm not I don't it but like a train Murphy a herb Jones a winged another long-lanky wing defender in that in that image and I think they're right on the you're looking at it going like damn now they're really contenders and I think they're just they don't need necessarily have to go run for Yannis and tear most of their roster to get to that yeah it's it's so it should have these theoretical discussions with NBA peoples because they will say they will accept everything you just said it's true like they are are close now they're retored to that the aggressive school of thought torque retort that would be the hardest and most valuable jump to make is from in the conversation to favorites and if you can make that jump what while costing yourself only one of your three centerpiece young players you should and I always just like you do say well it's not just either or there's a third path of there for sure going to try to turn sohan plus a pick plus a swap plus maybe another salary old linik or something into another viable rotation player to take some minutes from whoever deserves to play less I don't know anyway it's just interesting let's talk about the east since we talked about the next and we just talked about the box losing again to the wizards and the yannis trade stuff I just think the east it's it's just so interesting to talk to people around the east because who did you pick do who did you pick to make the finals out of the east did you pick New York like I did I picked I picked the next I think they'd be the closest thing to a consensus pick with apologies to the pistons I I don't say this in a tongue in cheekway I don't really think anyone I don't hear a lot of people from other eastern conference teams express a lot of fear of the nicks and I say that if someone who picked the next to win the title and I don't quite know why that is well I do know why that is their offense is unassailably really good it's their defense and it's the the sort of just lack of general faith and cat to make smart decisions in high leverage moments I actually think he's made more progress in that in particularly on the playoff stage he's got credit for starting with the series Minnesota lost to Denver I thought was sort of a landmark series for him the last three or four games of it but last night I don't know if you watched that nicks spurs game but last night was I think an example of why you talk to people on all these other eastern conference teams of like yeah we're not like we don't view the nicks as this juggernaut that we can't compete with because the spurs down the stretch with Wembee out which is like Rand pick and roll a cat and Brunson every single time down the floor cat sat back at a drop I've talked about it a million times I don't think cat in a drop is an obstacle at all and I don't know what the answer is there are a bunch of different answers that you've got to use they didn't use any of them and I think it matters it's a regular season game but the spurs lick them up down the stretch in the paint because cat in a drop is just not doing anything yeah I mean I feel like I understand where teams are coming from in terms of like not being afraid necessarily of the nicks because that's been the biggest problem for them you know with their defense it's how do you build a defense centered around and you're right cat has improved but it's still not and no Mitchell Robinson last night which is the end no Josh Hart huge deal huge deal big pieces for them but it's you know but it doesn't matter with even if those guys on the floor teams in the playoffs are going to go after Brunson and cat over and over again and then particularly Brunson so I feel like they need to kind of figure out that answer and how are they going to deal with that and it's it's in that vein where I think teams are like okay we can we can we know their challenge we know they're tough but it's not like they're they're unstoppable it's not like we have to play our perfect perfect perfect game to beat this team I feel like there's a lot of confidence within the east in the sense of it feeling wide open and when they look at the next who I think you're right it consensus to come out it's almost by default the calves haven't been very good the the the bucks obviously with the honest injury fillies obviously fill like there's a level of like almost default and nobody really wants to feel uh ballsy enough to say the pistons and I think it's it's in that area where when you're looking at the nicks it's just you always feel like something's going to happen and and and it's going to be a disaster for them I don't I don't I believe in curses or anything like that but you almost just feel like so Haloper and the shot goes way up and then comes straight down and it like there's always some weird sort of jinx around them in in that sense and it's a almost somewhat of a tortured franchise to a degree so you're almost kind of are waiting for that I know that from nicks fans that are like like yeah like we're hyped but at the same time like once the other shoe gonna drop but building a defense where you got to focus on Brunson and Kat as you know like that's hard if you could survive with one guy but with two it gets really difficult because once you put both of them in the pick and roll and you're in a challenging situation now even fully healthy now O.G.s got to find a way to rotate bridges has got to rotate heart or or or Robinson or are are there those three guys are in a scramble mode situation and it's four on three after that and and so it becomes a bit challenging for them so they got to kind of see that area is got to lift up a little bit more for them to inspire more fear in the east where everybody's like all right yeah like this is going to be a genuine problem um I mean look I'm still getting to make the finals but I just I it's just what I hear and you know let's pivot to another team that we all were high on before the season the calves um I'm officially downgrading the calves con scale we're back at calves con three uh they beat the spurs pretty handily and they beat the sons pretty handily at home uh last night I think the spurs game was in San Antonio so like that's a very very good win um and I think the biggest change it's very simple um Derrius Garland looks like Derrius Garland and it's not just that he's driving to the rim and he looks fast he's got he's got his snappiness back like every he's he's an incredible change of pace hesitation keep the defense off balance kind of player and he's really good at it because when he changes pace from slow to fast he does it really really fast when he's healthy it's like a jolt it's jarring and he's got that kind of force that that speed in tight spaces he's got it back now the skeptic would say can we see it for a month can we see it for six weeks because we never see it for a month in six weeks and I get that and then Jared Allen has showed a pulse in the last two games you combine that with their starting Dean Wade over Deandre Hunter I think that's the correct starting five until Max Shruse comes back I just think having the lower usage he's not a roving shooter like Shruse or Sam Merrill but a guy who's basically going to be a 3&D guy I think that's the correct fit mobile he's back he's starting but Garland and Allen just haven't been anything like the version like you if you told somebody who just started following in be it this year that both of those guys have made all star teams in the past to be like really is the east that bad I know you're telling me the east is that bad well they look like themselves and I do think it's that simple and where it calves con three and if the calves keep playing like this I'll put it this way Mo I had a discussion last night at air candidate center just pull a question one of these fun NBA person pull questions pick pick the four conference semi-finalists in the east right now the four teams that win a first round playoff series in the east who do you think it's going to be do you want to do you want to answer that question you want me to tell you what I said oh let me let me answer it and then let's see where where you end up because I think it was just it was just snap take right now January 1 2026 is starting we flash forward to the second round not who's playing who just who are the four teams right now I would just go next pistons are locks to me I just like part of me doesn't want to do it but I think Orlando and then I'm going to go calves well I think that's the four for me that would I right now January 1st would be my snap judgment we had the same exact four teams uh New York in Detroit just you know Detroit even if you're a skeptic and I'm not they're going to have an easy first round playoff series unless something crazy happens with the calves I think the calves in a magic uh would get right and we'll talk about them uh you know I just you know it's been a rough season for the calves and I don't know that they're going to be able to really alter their roster because of the second apron restrictions that they're facing um I've talked before about this idea that Garland and Allen could somehow net you Yannis and you'd have to involve a third team and like how that is just gone now and the mobility Yannis trade conversation that Bill has I think Bill was really the first one to be on this not that there's been any conversation to be clear just like the general theory of it I think that's interesting um but if they keep playing well I think their default stance is going to be conservative with mobility and but I look it looks they're a really good team when they're humming and they look like they're humming again and it's just to me it's just as simple as like when Garland is Garland they're just a completely different team they're the I'm I'm with you on it I think first off like I listen to the pod after Christmas day when you were talking goldberry and you kind of we're we're a little bit positive about that loss against the nicks I was down on and and and my view of it was more like here we go again this is they get killed on the boards it's it's the same stuff over and over like what are they going to change but what I'll say is what I've seen in the last few games is it helps with Garland and Allen playing much better and at their level but I think ultimately too is just as it offenses a hole the ball is flying all over the place it's snappy it's going all over the court in that win against the spurs you know they had a lot of cuts there was a lot of movement there a mobility gets doubled gets the ball out Mitchell cuts right off the lane and gets a bucket it's it's all the other things that they're kind of creating they're they're getting more more of that offense we saw last year where the ball was flying cutting and and and smart actions behind everything I was beginning to see again and I've seen in the last few games where I'm beginning to feel better about the calves where I'm like all right calendar change maybe that's going to be the upswing for them and now they'll start to kind of whatever the first two months of the season is is out uh there four guys are back to being normal and and and Roland and I think we'll start to see them climb so I'm a little bit more positive about them right now in the after having seen them play the last few games whereas after Christmas day I was like man I'm done I think the most interesting team that was not in our top four our four conference semi-finalists in theory picks is Boston at 2012 sniffing the best point differential in the east they're almost even with New York and Detroit with the Tatum possibility maybe or maybe not looming you know we'll see um I think they're very interesting we didn't talk about Philly um you know and be he tried to self-all you the other day I'm just telling him I almost fell out of my chair they finally won a game with him and PG and Maxi all together they're they're solid it's hard for me to believe Miami has been wildly up and down and then Milwaukee they lose to Washington again by one with Yannis they're 14 and 20 and all the noise continues to be that the bucks want to buy for all the reasons that we're talking about right now because they're not if we can get one other guy around Yannis one better player one better number two guy um you know we we're not really scared of anybody I just the team plainly is not good enough but if they if they can hover if they can hover if they can crack first step one is get in the plan pass it land up pass Chicago start getting up towards like eighth and start getting up towards sixth maybe even extricate yourself from the plan although they're they're what six games out in the lost home that's that's not nothing um I do think they would like to unless Yannis ever just makes it black and white for them and asks out explicitly which he does not appear to have really done um I do expect them to try to buy and if they continue that stance for another month to me they're just like I went when Dallas fire Diko Harrison I went through all the fake Anthony Davis trades I said right away you've got to look at teams that are desperate to win and underperforming and can bundle some expiring salary and I said like I'd look at the bucks I'd look at the clippers for Anthony Davis and I and I still would um for those reasons but to me if the bucks continue on this stance of buy buy buy they're just a lock to end up with one of these sort of distressed high leverage high high salary players like a Levine Michael Porter Jr. I mentioned AD I mean hard and I had mentioned in the passes of theoretical fit I think that's probably gone um I but but because they're they're just not if you can't beat the Wizards just you're just not not good enough but twice you know yeah this is why I keep telling Bill I do agree with him that I think and and I've always said this is the most likely resolution of this is in the summer when teams have a little bit more flexibility to the trade when Yannis has a clear yes or no line of demarcation with the extension that they can put in front of him in the offseason um but I'm not closing the door on an in season trade especially if the bucks just continue to make up no ground in the standings now with Yannis even back earlier than um earlier than expected I don't know who the team is um we've gone through all the teams a million times uh I but but I'm not going to close the door completely on an in season trade you can and and and here's the honest reason why after last season when Luca gets traded out of nowhere everything's on the table the door is always a little bit of jar I'm just gonna even it whatever said in the meat I will always be until the trade deadline there's a possibility that that something comes together like you said a team gets desperate turns around and or you know the bucks don't move up or anything like that but when you just look at this team with Milwaukee like for me what I'm worried about with them saying we're just we're gonna be buyers now and I think you know I feel like Jeremy Grant's been at it you know been he never plays when does last time Jeremy Grant played like he's out again for this extended period of time but like it's every time like there's a name that they mentioned I'm not like okay now you get him and that's you're gonna win the East like there's not like there hasn't been anything that's moved me to the point where like okay I'm gonna dig myself a deeper hole hoping that this will be like this is a Hail Mary play and I feel like it's not gonna work out like that's where I'm kind of just pessimistic with the team in in in any move that they can make right now I just don't see anything that goes yeah all right now now the nicks should be worried right now the piston should be worried that you guys are you got this and now you're gonna be coming and you might be a first ground matchup in the plane like it's I I don't feel like the bucks are there to that point and I feel like now they're just throwing good money after bad money in the situation so like that's where I'm really kind of worried about them when we get to the trade deadline and they become the noise of them being more of a buyer grows I think it's bad money after bad money after worse money at this point with Damon their books for a thousand years and Miles Turner also on their books for a thousand years I just want to say I did I mentioned Michael Porter Jr. and I talked about earlier this week about I sort of made the case for why I wouldn't be urgently trying to trade Michael Porter Jr. if I were the nets A he's been awesome thank you deserves to be it at least in the all-star conversations tough to make it when your team is 10 and 20 but he's been very good and you you do run into people around the league who are like who will poo at bailing mobile someone's got a score on a bad team I don't watch the nets and think he's just a pure good stats bad team guy he's been efficient he's playing team basketball yeah he's getting him up but they this is not a case of just you know random guy on a bad team piling up empty numbers not to me anyway and he's only 27 and I don't think his next contract is going to break the bank because everybody knows the medical concerns on him and he's a good fit with the nets young guys all of that said I do think if they can sell high on him I I would predict they would that's all I want to say about Michael Porter because I just think you know they got a pick for taking them in I think in flippin for another pick a good value I think then that's probably would do that but that's just me it's and it's a good and it's a good pick though it's not like 28 20s you know like late late first round I think it's like a good pick that they feel confident will translate and be like at least mid first round or just or just a pick that's far enough into the future that it has this sort of sheet like the I think they got a 2032 from Denver which is like who the hell knows if Yokech is still if he's a jockey by that point or whatever whatever you call the guy who sits in the in the card for hardest racing and the other thing I will say is I mentioned at the end of last pod that my last pod that I had a scorching heat take that I was just not mentally prepared to put out there and this was the take I do watch the heat sometimes surprising things happen in the NBA all the time though I do watch the heat sometimes trying to figure out this bam where fit I think where has a chance to be really good now he's been in the absolute perfect developmental place for him and is he going to continue along this path no one is quite certain about that I it just burrowed into my head of would they ever put bam in a package would they ever just do it to sort of clarify their books clarify their roster sort of pivot to a younger direction I've never thought they would because I having written a gigantic profile of bam I know exactly what he is to that franchise he is the standard bear he's the culture bearer I don't think there's not one part of them that would want to do it other teams I know have for sure asked about bam had been told hell no and the wild card that you also have to consider is as they sniff around at yonness and other star players all of those star players are going to want to play with bam so I think I have to nix my own hot take and I do think the heat will more than sniff around the honest situation by the way my favorite I also I think the warriors will sniff around the honest situation I don't think they have enough I don't think they have enough to get it but their argument would be it would be well if we gave you four three first round picks in a piece of the other pick we all the wizards so four first round picks let's call world our picks may be super valuable take our picks plus kuminka like blah blah I don't I don't see it but my other favorite fake yonness trade that I made up and then bill was angry that I took credit that I made it up before him jokingly angry and then I realized that it's not really possible was bancaro for yonness so let's talk about palo bancaro there's been a lot of noise about the magic being better with bancaro off the floor for four second fierce time hapershaw just wrote another piece on it the the bancaro fron's vognor fit has been ultra scrutinized including by me the magic surging on offense when bancaro was injured and fron's was healthy this year three guards plus fron's being a pretty zippy better spacing more movement kind of model and then bancaro comes back fron's gets hurt almost right away and bancaro's kind of been feeling out these games like a guy who watched the team develop a different identity without him and is trying to figure out how to assert himself as a dominant scorer within that identity in some games he's been pretty deferential even with fron's injured then he's been more assertive a little bit of lady to buzzer beat a last second game winning shot against the Pacers last night i i liked the idea of bancaro for yonness because if i am going to try to get off bancaro before the league is really onto the fact that he hasn't been that efficient and i'm i've been a little bit more bullish than that bancaro mostly because of what he's done in the playoffs but if i am going to do that if i'm more lando it needs to be a deal that gets me talent that can win right now and if i'm milwaki i have to ask myself is there a single better young player that i can get then palo bancaro at a yonest deal now a couple of things have happened the bucks are telling everyone we're buying not selling and i i learned right away bancaro's poison pill because he just signed his extension he's very hard to trade but i am interested in having the discussion with you about what are you seeing with palo bancaro where are you with the bancaro fron's vognor fit and and like what's what's what's your just take on this general situation i think the first thing to start out and i watched that game yesterday and then i went back and watched some of his stuff against terrano the other night and i the one thing i say with him it frustrates me with actually it's more scheme and and coaching issue they don't do him any favors with the the the situations they put him i find him a lot of time in iso in that indiana game against pascal siakum and iso in the terrano game a lot of times it's iso against scottie barns it's not like they they don't really put in anything that creates opportunities for him to go at mismatches and even when these guys set screens like they're terrible screens like this is this is you know like when do carto junior doesn't hold the screen long enough it doesn't create a switch opportunity i i'm not seeing a lot of that stuff and then i kind of dove in a little bit into the numbers kind of last year and this year and the one thing that one number that one shot in particular that stood out to me he shot from 10 to 14 feet right mid range everybody you know we analytics guys are probably super upset that i'm even bringing it up that like but he shot 44% it last year he shooting 30% on those this year and i think that's like a um i mean that's the drop right like that's where you're like the flow doesn't look right doesn't look rhythm i think he's in a very he's i think very confused about where he fits in the offense you know the way it looks because i think you're right he saw everything that happened when he was out and wanted it to continue when he came back and i don't think he fully understands how to where to do that i'm not off the fronds hollow uh duo i think that can really work i think with bane i think it adds a nice element but i just want to see it more them play off of each other and with each other more instead of just kind of like hey we're gonna just give palo a few iso possessions and it almost feels like grenade sometimes this is like he gets it against he's top you know the prime defender and it's like seven seconds left on the shot clock like now you're at a disadvantage as the offensive player right off the bat like i feel like there's still room for him his three point shooting is not something i i'm ever really gonna buy i mean it's really the percentages terrible right now but i think like it's where we're at with him i think we need a little bit more patience but i i want to see a little bit more work within the offense an offensive system put in that will actually help him you know and create more mismatches for him because i don't think they do him any favors when it gets to that yeah i saw his recent comments i think it was in the athletic about how he has seen the narrative everybody's favorite word narrative about you know how he and fronts can't fit and how he thinks it's bs and this and that and i know people with the magic are sensitive to this idea and sort of defensive of palo and my reaction in conversations with with people around league has been to palo's comments etc has been like hey look man i'm sorry the numbers are what they are and um a couple of things are true true thing number one is you take too many jump shots and you don't make enough of them to justify how many you take i don't know what the solution to that is because make more make more threes does not necessarily appear to be in the cards i think he is under performing on on mid-range shots and that's always going to be a part of this game and that's okay because he can draw help into the post and facilitate from there he's taking fewer threes this year by a lot and not making them and it just feels like that is um stalled out at this point and thing number two that's true is the magic indisputably discovered something with antenna black who is breaking out as a two way player plus desmond bane plus jalen sugs three guards and fronts they leaned on that hard when palo got hurt and the offense just looked fast the floor looked open decisions were being made faster because fronts although he's also not a great three point shooter he's a little better than palo more willing to take them than palo and a quicker decision maker and ball mover than palo is and how does palo fit into that well we don't really know because he came back right fronts got hurt and why i and the one thing i will grant the one the one the one thing i will grant the palo defenders and i'm in between is palo has barely gotten to share the floor this season with sugs in particular and those three guards plus palo in very limited minutes so no fronts has been really really good for the magic too they're starting lineup with sugs palo uh bank of fronts uh when del cardor junior and bane has been lights out and so i'm withholding all judgment on like this is this can't work or this doesn't work very well until i see all the best players together and particularly sugs ban caro vognor now i do wish there was a world in which you could play palo at center and so you can play those three guards plus fronts plus palo i think a good dabble in that but defensively i just don't not sure that that holds up but i do think that's an interesting card i would play if i were jimal mostly but you know when they all play together again i don't really know what the best solution is because palo is a spacer 10% more of the time is not really going to be uh functional palo as taking as many jump shots as taking now is not really working i guess to your point the solution has got to be everybody plays within this sort of fast moving quick hitting point five system and you find eight seconds into the possession where to leverage palo's size speed screening ability more ball screens all that because i he is like you'll find analytics focus front office people who will just be like oh palo is just not good and i'll be like with respect he's clearly very good at basketball like you don't score 25 points a game in the playoffs against elite defenses and draw double teams if you're like not good he's clearly good and i do think there's a world on which this can work but they got to find it soon because i i think this team could could make a run could could i think this team could make the finals if they figured everything out and black black sweep has been one of the big under discussed stories in the league in the last three weeks yeah i mean there's some stuff i forget if it was indiana or or or toronto the game but he had a black had a little like given go action with palo that led to it really athletic dunk like just uh uh from when he took off but there's a lot of stuff there this team has a lot of the talent like that that we look at and we go like this team can compete in the playoffs they've been through the playoffs to past few years have gone to game sevens have have gone through it like they're ready to take that leap it's just they gotta find that system zack it's this is a team to me that screams more than anything else like this needs to be a system team and everybody needs to buy into the system we need to see everybody needs to be moving more cutting more screening and and and and playing into that stuff and i just want to see that stuff come together because they have the offense of talent and i queue with a lot of these guys that i think you'll be able to get some great stuff out of it but you got to get something in place because right now it just feels i feel like it's really unfair to palo when they just give him something in in a stagnant set and then he's got it and then it's again it's Pascal it's Scottie Barnes it's you know when they play the nixel b o g and an obi will be like he's got to go up against these top level defenders which sure he might win those matchups sometimes but he's going to lose those also and that's something the defense will take and i think that's a system where i want to see them find more opportunities for him in movement in flow in a in a system i'm just going to keep screaming system at the the magic and if you're throwing the on-off numbers in palo's face you you should acknowledge that you know the the sugs variable and the best players not playing together variable very often and this year their offense is actually a tick better with palo on the floor it's the defense that has taken a step a step back with him on the floor has been better with him off the floor and i'm not sure there's enough information to include like that's because of his limitation i do you actually think he's a pretty good defensive player they've had a weird up and down defensive system but i trust them i then did the for all this to say i do think there is an issue here part of it is fronzen palo our similar size so any two man actually between them teams will try to switch you got it's your job as an offense to make that switch more difficult to make by moving fast slipping screens being unpredictable and although fronzen shooting 36% from three this year which is good he's not going to be treated like a three point shooter at noris palo and so that's just you know you got to get creative but um i he's shown me too much in the playoffs for me to be that concerned about it i just want to see the best players together um you mentioned one del card junior who is fine like he's a perfectly serviceable center you know i mentioned them is like a not like theoretically could they make a play for an entity davis kind of team when niko heres and got fired and just concluded it's just to make the money work is too difficult unless you include sucks and you don't want to include sucks because sucks is really good and really valuable when available um it did it did make me think again if someone suggested that that deal to me the other day and it made me you know a d's been all over the news um he's coming back i think tonight for the maves from uh his latest injuries latest groin injury earlier than i thought you would which is great um i don't know man i again i'd keep an eye on the bucks and the clippers just for the desperation factor the hawks have been mentioned i don't think the hawks are trading are putting resuscity in an entity davis deal i talked already about the hawks earlier this week i gave i made my maya kopa on the hawks i don't really see what the point of them trading for an entity davis is if they're giving up a real piece of their feature like that i'm not like to what end um right i i don't i don't get it um i think the warriors have been linked to them i think there's i think there'd be some tepid interest there but again getting to the money requires draymond or butler and i'm i'm not sure that that's something that they're really game for and they've won five out of six by the way that Toronto lost that i was at was super dispearing but they've been winning they've been winning enough games to stay afloat it's the most miserable five out of six so in the way it feels right like it doesn't like i was that's true it's it's it's it's because like you said it's when you look at it like yeah damn they've won five out of six but it feels like they've lost five out of six in the way everything you see in the vibe with that team it's they're frustrating in that sense of just trying to kind of pinpoint where they're at um and then we'll just see what these other teams in anti-divis i don't know i know i just i said it it was obvious at the time i said it again when you go got fired just get ready the delta between what you gave up for anti-divis and what you're going to get back for him in a trade is going to shatter the world record for biggest trade delta gap in the history of the NBA and maybe professional sports it's not going to be it's not going to be great uh for the match i don't really know what they should i don't feel passionately one way they're like what they should do um they're sort of similar to the jazz and and how aggressively do they want to go for a high pick uh and then you know can you have a traiong team uh can you can you solve the traiong riddle for me? Zach i've tried for years like i haven't felt like there's a place for him before the luca trade i thought maybe the lakers like that was an area where i thought that there'd be i haven't found a team where like you you're a traiong away and you take a level up like that's the one of the hardest things in terms of watching his game and it's it's frustrating to kind of watch because like you you mentioned it when you talked about it i think last spot it's you know like really the most outstanding skills to passing you know when you look at the numbers is the media he's a little bit of a mediocre shooter he's not um offense the offense has to be tilted and played his way and it's not even good enough in that sense and i think that's kind of the challenge i don't know if there's a traiong team that makes sense where you just go like cool i see it they get lifted up this team's gonna be rolling um you know that now they have their their guy we're gonna see the path forward i i'm i would be frustrated for him in that sense because like i just don't know where it is and it's a riddle that's it's gone beyond this year it's been the past few years i've never felt like there was a place that made sense people talk san antonio while back i didn't like that match with him and uh when i think i think i think that was real ish i think i think before the fox thing fell into their lap that they they talk they had some talks internal talks at the very least about it and yeah and then like orlando was a place that i think was talked about for a while like i don't know where he fits and in what system you can kind of plug him in and just feel like okay we're gonna get lifted up and and and get moving i think the traiong conundrum is is a tough one there yeah bill we've talked about the desperation teams like clippers but i mean harden has been is there point guard i don't see at the point of a swap between those two and i think the clippers are gonna i do think the clippers are gonna now that they've righted the ship in one five and a row they're gonna chase the play and they're gonna try to like let's get back into the play and uh milwaki i've mentioned i mean sack sack is is the wild card of these times if i were the grizzly's like joss had a couple good games in a row i would be calling the i'd be calling the veck i'm skipping scop hairy i'm going right to the way you see jok electric right oh absolutely electric i think i think now might be the time for you i mean we love him but now might be the time for you guys to strike by the way i jaren jackson jr i'm just monitoring that situation that's all say uh you tall is mentioned for trai points but can't they george's become so i don't know we'll see i i will see the floor to you on this um you wanted to talk about the lakers and you wanted to talk about their offense because all the focus has been on how bad they've been defensively how bad their numbers are with lebron and luke on the floor defensively but you want to hit their offense go yeah so like when we focused on their defense the funny part about it to me was i just kind of looked at everybody going like we knew this going into the season we knew this was going to be a bad defensive team i didn't there to me there was no viable way in which they can defend it was their offense has to outscore you they're going to win games based on their offense being great and that's really kind of how it started in november right when you look at this uh look at the split from november to december offensive rating was fifth they were rolling and looked good they had listened i know lebron wasn't playing for a lot of it and their you know reese was cooking all that stuff but the thing that looks different because when you go from november to december the offensive rating goes from fifth at around like 120 so 114 and that's about 18 for the month of december the offense just stopped moving right like when they were playing in november there was a system there was luca was working off ball and going on on ball and then you know getting off early and then there was opportunities for reeds to find stuff they had lurevius set in the back screen and then slipping and then there was all these things that everybody was moving and then when lebron came back he kind of took some of the stuff that lurevi was doing and was doing the same thing set in that that pin down and slipping and getting dunks all those things they had a three man action going at the elbows and all that stuff all that's been gone in december and part of it for me is i feel like if you can get your offense back on track you can at least create a little more motivation defensive right like i feel like the defense will get and again i will it will always they will always be a bad defense to me with the way this team is set up but like i their defensive effort will improve if you can get their offense on track and when you go back and watch their playing slower i think their uh uh taste went from like a hundred something to 98 and for november to december just looking at those splits like it's it's staggering to me like the offense has been we're highlighting the defense but the offense is a massive problem and that has become very stagnant again very slow and that's not the ways this team needs to play when they were rolling early in the season they had a lot of movement in that stuff they had a lot of stuff in there where i was going like jay jay's coaching his ass off with this offense and now it's back to just bring the ball up slowly let's run some pick and roll and and hope we get a match up and and hope either luca lebron fails us out it's that that's the disaster for me because that i expected to be better and it's been a bit uh frustrated and reaves has been hurt and rewee's missing games and those are two plus offensive players for what their rules are reads especially but yeah i look i mean the lakers are twenty and eleven with a negative point differential i don't remember the last time i've seen a team this far into the season that far were five hundred with a negative point differential um they just look not good enough right now and uh took a pee with these other teams in the west and i don't know what the remedy for that really is people are going to throw fake austin reaves trades into the trade machine until february fifth i my bet would be the lakers keep him i think like here's my awesome reus bet they keep him they reassign him over the summer all you would be more specific than that i bet he takes slightly less than the max to stay in la even though i think he could get the max other places uh that's that this is just my sort of the like six months out prediction for how this could resolve itself and then i think you make a decision once that contract is signed once you see what this team looks like with luke up plus reaves plus whoever uh and and you've got potential cap flexibility in a summer or two by the way that's the clippers are also aiming for that same timetables everybody knows it by the way everyone's like the clippers can't take on this money in twenty twenty seven because they want to if they if they if they were to package like the collins boke donnavich for this sort of desperation swing at ad or whoever this theoretical player is why can't they they have nothing on the books they have like zoo bots on the books in twenty twenty seven and that's it they can take somebody on if they want to but anyway um then you make a decision for the lakers does reaves plus luke plus whatever else is here is that the path in the luke here or do we then look to flip reaves when he has a bigger salary can let us more stuff i think ultimately that's the sort of timetable that i'm on and i will see where the brondis but yeah i don't they just don't look good enough man i don't know what else to tell you about it and it would be a mistake i think the trade reaves right now i think your your path is the route to take i think it's you know that it's not going to he's not going to bring back something that's again going to put you on the level of even the the rocket spurs uh tier like they're they're they're they're pretty far behind in that sense i don't know what you do i think just build upon with this this was always kind of a gap year for me with the lakers right in in terms of they didn't do much in the obseason they got the Andre and i have to do a little bit of a mea copa there because i was very deferential to you about like yeah like i'm not a nate and guy i don't think he's he's he drives me insane as a player this is mainly my friends he yelling at me in my group chat uh after listening to me talk about it with you if like he just has to be okay i don't think he's good enough i don't think he's good enough as a roller i don't think he's good enough as a rebounder all that stuff we're seeing it now i they didn't do anything this offseason really to the point where it made me go like okay this is a gap year for them figure it out new ownership coming in what they're going to kind of do their their own calculus and change things up i i'm not surprised but they got to keep reaves at the end of the day they got to keep reaves to at least have that trade ship in the future because even now looking forward in the future they don't have one they don't have a piece they don't have a move to make at that point they weren't not going to trade luca in the future lebron's 41 no trade clause we don't even know if he's going to be back next year like they they need at least keep him extend him or resign a big number all that stuff so that they have a move to make down the road Mo can you surf do you know how to surf i'm taking a surfing lesson this week that's uh that's going to be my uh journey into surfing one of the all-time great random characters the Paul Rudd surf instructor from forgetting ceremony who just makes no no sense do less no no do less well see it did something there no well you have to do something i don't i don't know how you write that scene anyway mo to kill uh to promote promote tell us where we can find all your stuff first check out the podcast with me and jerry duven the double dribble podcast then this Saturday i will be on mba tv a bunch of half times uh they have a bunch of games we're going to be doing half time and and post game shows it's going to be me Alexis Morgan and Zach Harper uh we'll we'll take you through all that's a fun stuff and and enjoy that stuff and make sure you're checking out offside we're going to have the app up soon that's where i'm putting a bunch of videos i just dropped the power rankings yesterday and that that's where i drop a little uh some some more fun stuff in in in terms of uh what i think's going on in the mba mo to keel thank you for your time happy twenty twenty six my friend same to you all right that's it for this week on the zack low show we're going to be back Monday thank you to adamaris and mo to keel for their time and for their insight coming on thank you to mike billy and johnathan on production thanks to you all for listening to and or watching this at low show we'll be back next week the mba rolls on happy new year must be twenty one or over in president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or eighteen and over in president dc can tuck you or while mgamblin problem called one eight hundred gambler visit rg dash help dot com call one eight eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven of visit ccpg dot org slash chat in canadicate orgs is it md gambling help dot org in marlin hope is here visit gambling help line m a dot org or call eight hundred three two seven five oh five oh four twenty four seven support in Massachusetts or call one eight seven seven eight hope n y or text hope and lie in new york at that way casino kelly broke his arcacino ambassador and for all new customers state twenty pounds and get a 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