ICE Shooting in Minneapolis: How Should Christians Respond!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

The number of verses that make it clear that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, quote, apart from works is stacked a mile high. If baptism is a simple one sign that I am beginning the Christian life, it should be for those who have begun the Christian life. If you have already decided who the good guy is and who the bad guy is before you hear anything, you are not interested in justice. You're just an activist for a cause. There seems to be a spirit that basically just rejects all authority and the Bible calls that a spirit of lawlessness. As Christians, we want reformation not lawlessness. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the live free podcast coming to you from Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. My name is Carlos Arraz and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howardson and Pastor Paul Cunningham. We are kicking the pig. Let us kick this pig. Let us say this man is again. It just sounds so much better. Oh, man, man. Welcome. Today we're going to be talking about I am in Italy. I always do that, dude. It's it's the it's the culturally ignorant Kentucky kid. I just became Italian right now. And so if that's probably demeaning, I don't want to talk. It's me. I'm the problem. This is an emoji too, by the way. Oh, yeah. It's just kids. I'll go take it. We'll take it. Wait, wait, wait, tell them we're going to talk. Yeah, hey, we have an episode today. By the way, heads up. Juicy episode. Very much so. We're going to be talking about frequently shouted questions about baptism. Yeah, such as if I was a baby, it was if I was baptized as a baby, do I have to get re-baptized? Does baptism save you? Responding to Father Mike's is his last name, Schmidt? Yeah, I think so. The handsome guy. The handsome guy. We can't be number one on the religion podcasts on iTunes. It's hard to be the handsome Catholic priest. That comment is really hard. And we're going to be talking about is baptism of the Holy Spirit thing. Yes, we are. And we're going to be wrapping up with the ice shooting in Minneapolis conversation. Yes, we are. Pastor Josh. Juicy episode. Before you go anywhere, I want to give a shout out and I have you guys have not seen this video. I have permission to show this video. So if you let me set this up, if we have a podcast, listen to you, send this in. If you ever been to a lake point service, whenever I do an invitation, at the end, I always do the same thing or what makes fun of it. Or I'll be like, hey, on the count of three, if you pray that prayer and for instance, your heart, raise your hand. And you know, can anybody remember the three things I say? I say one. Oh my god. I do remember. What do you read? What is it? One, one. God loves you. Two. Do you remember training? You came here for a reason today. Three. Raise that hand of it. Lock that elbow. Lock, okay. Lock that. Okay. Now, all right. Now check this out. So this is Steve Hardin's niece. I guess I'm going to make it the deal details wrong. Have a bit of a medical issue or something. A little scared of taking her medicine. That kind of thing. So take a picture. They're like, she found a way to get herself to take the medicine. And this is the video she sent. Check this out. Oh, loves you. Two. You are here for a reason. Three. Three. Get locked that elbow. Come on. I love it. I love it. You sent one. You gave me a reason today. Two. God loves you. Three. Lock that elbow. She just throws it back. She did. That's amazing. That's awesome. It's incredible. So shout out. We love you, Steve Hardin's niece. Hey, man. That's amazing. That's great. Did you know that we are now on video on Spotify, by the way? That's anything. Oh my. So fancy. So you know, technology keeps the advantage of a preferred way of watching video. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Spotify. Yeah. I don't know why Apple is so behind. I don't know how they don't have video at this point. I don't know. Yeah. Hey, man. Everything a week we do a hat to give away. Yes, we do. And we got a winner shout out to 9kc row from last week's giveaway to comment on this week's giveaway. We got a hat for you. Oh, comment hat below on YouTube with the little cap emoji. Because, you know, because we can't. Hey, also do this. So by the way, we're moving tons of these things. That's right. By the way, so many comments. I don't keep. I don't get any of the money from the hats. I think some people thought I was like pocketing at money. Wait, we don't get money from the hats. What are you getting? No, I'm not. I know. We're not. That's just helping fund pocket. So anyway, if you get one of these tag me on Instagram, like do an Instagram story and tag me in it or opposed. And I'll reshare it. We can spread live free nation. And by the way, if somebody's like, where do I get a hat online store for live free is available as well. You can get that hat if you text had to 2041 or go to live free.shop. And by the way, you want to hear something exciting? Oh, I would love to. If you are part of the live free nation. I've been waiting all day to hear this exciting. That's why I'm here. If you're part of the live free nation and you come visit us in person to any of our physical locations for the first time. And you tell us that you came because of live free, we got a free gift for you. Oh, so is it a hat? I will not say because, uh, because it might, you need to find out. I'm saying. So they said they go to the, they go to the first time guest tent and just say, hey, I came because of live free. That's right. We give them the gift. We got a good free. It might be a hat. I don't know. Stop by. And if that's you, that's right. It might be a hat. It might be something else, but that's, that's happening. So no cheating. No, not, not like you've been here for 10 years. Don't go to the first time guest. That's right. That's right. Last thing else, you can also participate, um, for, uh, if you're here, one thing you need to know that a lot of people have been asking us about. Man, uh, people want a daily Bible reading plan. And so here's what we did. We basically re-engineered our LP Lake Point app to help our listeners, basically, uh, align their discipleship rhythms. And so when you download the Lake Point app, you can find a daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of the live free podcast and a discipleship guide with discussion questions you can use for your group to help you with your discipleship. So go to download the Lake Point Church app text-to-word app to 20411 or go to Apple or Google Play Store. You can get it now. Good job, Carlos. Thank you, man. I, uh, you know, we're not some people. No, no, no, there's more. Oh, like the podcast is just starting. Uh, I don't know. Hey, best of dries. I have a question for you. Yeah. I will. Allow it. I just want to say I was looking forward to hearing you say that. Uh, what did I make into the sermon? Okay. So this is week two. This is a big week. Obviously, this is a big week. Um, this week two of the bootcamp training for team Jesus series. We're basically, we're walking people six, seven weeks through how we make disciples at Lake Point. This week was a disciple is baptized in, in the water and spirit and water and spirit. So we're going to talk about that. So obviously message was on both water baptism and, um, whatever you want to call it, I'm going to talk about this later in the podcast. Where are you going to call it? I don't care what you call it. You can call it baptism in Holy Spirit. You can call it being filled with the Spirit. You can call it Presbyterians can call it function. I don't care what you call it. But whatever that thing is that happens to a Christian after they are saved where they get a fresh encounter with the Holy Spirit, you need that. So that was the whole sermon this week. Unctions is going to be the coolest way to call it. Those the Presbyterians. These are just, yeah, they got the corner on cool terms. They do. Unction man. Unction. Let's go. He's got the junction. They may not. Ase got the junction. They may not show the junction always, but they have it sometimes. That's right. They don't show it. You walk in their services. It's like, man, if you are happy and you know, I tell you your face. The whole time. Not just these, we love our Presbyteria brothers. We love those sisters. Yeah. All right. So here's what I did make into this sermon. A few things. Number one, obviously preached on Jesus' baptism. I preached from the Gospel, Luke. So I do want to show this. Hey, Trinity, will you go and toss that up there? So I've been here. This is the reported or likely location of Jesus' baptism. The reason that people speculate this is in John 1.28. So this, Jesus' baptism account, this is actually very significant. It is one of only, I think, four or five events that are recorded in all four Gospels, the synoptics and John. It's recorded all four. So it's obviously like, this is a big deal. Okay. And we're going to talk about why here in a second. The Gospel of John only in John 1.28 says that the baptism of Jesus happened at quote, Bethany beyond the Jordan. It's the only gospel that specifies a geographic marker. So this is people's best guess. And I've been here. This is people's best guess. Heads up. If you go there, it's kind of a downer. It's kind of an answer. It's honestly like you get there and you're like, huh, thought it'd be better. I seriously, it's like a glorified puddle. I'll be honest. It's one of those things we're in like four minutes. You're like, all right. Let's find a McDonald's. You know, it's kind of, so and there's a billion Israeli guards all over the place. So anyway, it's called Al-Magh-Tas. That's that spot right there. So I'm going to just kind of cool. Number two, obviously interesting that the Holy Spirit descends as a dove. Dough is obviously a bird that represents peace throughout the scriptures. And as we'll talk about here in a second, that is one thing that the felt experience the Holy Spirit does is he brings a peace in your life that surpasses understanding. This is thing, honestly, man, I almost built a whole sermon around this last year and I may do it at some point. So this is one of two events in the gospels where the audible voice of the Father speaks to the Son. Very interesting. A lot of Christians have missed this. Both times the Father says the exact same thing to the Son. So we only hear him twice and both time the Father says, I love this. The Dad says to his boy, you are my beloved son and with you, I am well pleased. Now, this is, I don't want to do a whole sermon. Let me just say a quick thing on this. What I think one thing the scriptures showing us is that the heart of a good Dad is towards his kids. You are my beloved child and with you, I'm well pleased. So what should our presence like three of us are dads? What should our presence feel like to our kids? It should feel like you are my beloved child and with you, I am well pleased. I will say some, this was like real popular like 10 years ago. Christians, especially in like counseling world, they'll get this mixed up where they'll be like, oh man, I had a bad dad and so I can't understand God as a heavenly Father. I do just want to gently say, hey man, we're not supposed to live earthly Father up. We're supposed to live heavenly Father down. Yeah. And what I mean by that is we shouldn't be looking at our earthly dads who are all flawed and imperfect and then transmuting that up and going, well, God must be like, it's the exact opposite. We should be looking at a perfect, heavenly Father and then transporting that down and going, this is what a good earthly Father should be like. So I will just kind of quickly say that. One last little thing that, you know, one more thing on that please do. It's interesting because you probably heard this before but at this point when Jesus hears this from God, there's no miracles, no ministry, no healing, no cross yet. And yet the Father is basically already telling Jesus, hey, like, I'm your dad, you're my son, I'm pleased with you. And we've heard that before and yet people forget Jesus is 30 at this point. And so he's been living in hidden faithful service to the Lord for 30 years. And so, you know, if you think about what he's been doing, he's been basically practicing faithful, ordinary, not flashy, unseen obedience for 30 years. God sees what you do in secret, quiet, faithful obedience, honor to the Lord. That's exactly right, man. It's the perfect picture of the gospel that in the gospel, the verdict comes before the performance. Let's go. And then before he's done anything good or bad, the Father's like, hey, I love you. I'm pleased with you. Let me keep going on to two quick things here. Little side note, this is kind of a fun one. So only the gospel of John records that I think is in John 1 or 2. Records that whenever John the Baptist looks at Jesus and goes, the whole of the Lamb, we've got to take away his own world. Only the gospel of John, it's sort of mysteriously records. There were two people who became Jesus disciples at that moment. It mentions in verse 40 the Andrew Simon Peter's brother was one of them. And then the other one, it doesn't give a name. Almost all Bible scholars are assuming that's because it was John himself that wrote the gospel, because in the gospel of John, he refuses to say his name. You'll notice that when you read the gospel of John, he'll say the one whom Jesus loved. He'll do the thing where he tells Peter, it'll say that the two of them took off sprinting towards the empty tomb. And then he'll just say, you know, the other one out ran Peter. I don't even need to say my name. I don't need to say my name. The other one out ran Peter, you know, and it's like it's him. Clearly him, but he won't say his name. So it's interesting that John who wrote the gospel, this was probably the moment he saw Jesus for the first time and became a disciple Jesus. That's a little interesting. One last thing that we touched on but didn't deep dive into, that is just crazy cool. So okay, so this is like one of the coolest things in the whole New Testament. So all right, John the Baptist sees Jesus and he goes, behold the Lamb of God that takes away since the world. We've done the whole deep dives on lamb imagery before. There's one thing we have not mentioned that this is explicitly referencing. All right. So if you go back, this is so awesome. If you go back to the day of atonement, the Old Testament, remember the whole day of atonement revolves around two goats, right? And what you got, just get this in your head. This can be really important in about 10 seconds. What you got is you get two identical goats, bookmarked at, two identical goats. They end up having different purposes. They cast lots on the day of atonement. One goat becomes the sacrificial goat where they place the sins of the people on the goat and then slaughter it on behalf of the sins of people. The other goat is called the scape goat. In fact, there's a very mysterious word in the Old Testament. Nobody really knows what it what it kind of meant to find or stand correctly. It just called, it's called the azzazel is what they call it and it's called the scape goat. So one goat gets slaughtered for the sins of the people. This other goat, the priest lays his head, hand on the head of the scape goat and in the scape goat, just is released to go free out into the wilderness. Okay. Sorry. Fast forward to the crucifixion of Jesus. John the Baptist says, behold, the lamb god takes away the sins of the world. Okay. Fast forward to the crucifixion of Jesus. So the guy that was supposed to get crucified was a guy named Barabbas. Some texts, it's really interesting. Go homework assignment. Go in your Bible and go read that account in the gospel of Matthew only. Okay. And some of your Bibles are going to have a little footnote. And if you go to that down to the bottom of the footnote, it says the his name, check this out, was Jesus, Barabbas, Jesus Barabbas. Okay. Now, so what does Barabbas mean? We've briefly hit this for bar. Obviously means son of, Abba means father. So bro, here's what you have. You have Jesus Christ, the son of God the father. And then you have a sinful criminal, whose literal name is Jesus, son of the father. Guess what you got? Two identical lamps. One gets slaughtered and one goes free. It goes back to the day of the tellment. So cool. Wow. Bald lamb god takes away the sins of the world. Now, let's get nuts. Let's get, let's just let's go, baby. So we were going to hit a bunch of few controversial things on this pod. We talked a lot of in a sermon about the necessity of water baptism. And I don't care what you call it, being filled with the spirit. So let's do this. Let's the algebra out for like five, six minutes here. Cheshiree Paul T. Will you please give a quick rundown of the, there's three primary theological positions on baptism. There are, there's the Catholic position, which I'll let you articulate and respond to you in a second. There's what's historically known as the pato baptism position, which is infant baptism. And you can talk about who does that and why they do it. And then there's, there's team like point. There's team correct. There's what's called credo baptism. Now, will you please, four listeners just explain the three primary positions and, and why we are what we are? Yeah, I would love to actually start with what we all have in common with these positions have in common. All, and this would be brief, all of them believe that baptism is a step of obedience. So like, wait, I'm sorry, I'm going to say one more thing. All right, as you're listening, here's what I need you to do while he's talking in the next few minutes. So there's some very emotional questions that people, that's why we called them frequently shouted questions. There's some very emotional questions people will ask about, okay, my parents sprinkle me as a kid, are you saying that I got to be baptized? There's a bunch of questions like that. We're going to answer. Yeah. If you have any of those questions, I need you to have those questions in your head while Paul is explaining the positions, because that's going to help de-emotionalize it and help you break, get a biblical answer to your question. 100%. Go ahead. Not as a few things that they would all hold in common. Number one, they all believe that baptism is a step of obedience. So in the new testament, there's no such thing as an unbaptized Christian. Let's just say one more time. Yeah, say that one more time. That's important. For all the views, what they would all say is that in the new testament, there is no such thing as an unbaptized Christian. Interesting. I'm not sure I agree with that. Except you say the man on the cross. I'll give a couple. I'll give a couple. I'll give a couple. I'll give a couple. I'll give a couple. This is fun. This is fun. Yeah. Number two. I'll say this. I'll say this. There's no such thing as a Christian in the New Testament, who intentionally chooses not to do that. Exactly. That's probably a better way to say it. I was trying to say it way too simply and clearly. That's a bunch better way to say it. Number two, it's a one-time event. All of them would say it's a one-time event. Number three, it demonstrates our union with Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. We all have some things in common, but we do differ on basically three different categories, who it's for, how it's done, and then what it does. Who it's for, how it's done, what it's actually think we have a chart that we're going to put on the screen. It's going to be a great episode today, man. Maybe we've got to bring a table out. Let's chart, baby. It's nothing else just to help keep it simple, especially for those of you who are watching. Yes, the three views, Roman Catholic, although I'm going to say now, Lutherans and Church of Christ also believe some of what Roman Catholics believe, but I won't focus as much on them. Roman Catholic, Protestant, Pedro Baptist, and Protestant, Crito Baptist. I actually just go through each category one time. Who is for? A Roman Catholic would say infants of those who are already in the Catholic church or believers who come to know Jesus, but they weren't a part of the Catholic church as an infant. For Protestant, Pedro Baptist, it would be again. It's up. If you're curious here in a second, we're going to respond to a quick video from Father Mike. Maybe, Schmidt. I can't remember. I think so. Where he articulates why Catholics believe that. Exactly. And we lovingly disagree. We lovingly know they're wrong. Yeah. And maybe even after I go through the three, these three, I'll give kind of three big reasons while we land what we do. Protestant, Pedro Baptist also would baptize infants of those who are parents are already in the church and then believers come to faith outside of the church. Protestant, Crito, Baptist would say, nope, only believers who have themselves personally placed a profession of faith in Jesus Christ. So we would not baptize infants. How it's done. Roman Catholics typically pouring. Protestant, Pedro, Baptist would be typically sprinkling or pouring. Although sometimes immersion, it's not completely universal. There are some exceptions. Protestant Crito, Baptist, almost completely by immersion, except in extreme circumstances. So if you're out in the middle of the use or some place that doesn't have water, you can completely submerge in. There's allowances loud. But the reason we do that is because baptism, the word that baptism comes from, most commonly means to dunk to reverse. Can I ask a question? Oh, go ahead. Man, I know the answer is question. Is the reason that that Pedro Baptist do the sprinkling? I may be answering my question ahead. Do they do that because of old, do they do that because in their minds it's an old covenant, new covenant, continuity thing and in the old covenant, they did that deal where they would sprinkle the blood on the piece. Is that where they get that? I think that's some of it. I can't, I don't know enough of all the details. Give a confidence. That would be one. Others that I've heard that talked about it. This actually referenced in John 3, which Father Mike talks about the some, about the idea of cleaning with baptize. Not sorry, it doesn't say baptize. Basically, you have to be born in my water and spirit. That's actually referencing Ezekiel 36 where it talks about I will sprinkle you with clean water. So that's actually reference to that, not too baptism. But that's why they do it. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. So let's talk about what it does. This is even say the bigger differences really start. Roman Catholics would say it initiates the person into salvation. It removes original sin and confers regeneration and saving grace. Put it shortly. Baptism actually saves you. But I put it initiates the person to salvation because people have to understand Catholics and Protestants have a very different understanding of salvation. For a Catholic, it's more of a state of grace that you can go in and out of. And so you can initiate a person to salvation, but they can fall out of that state by what they would call mortal sins, which you do with by confession and penance kind of a thing. But basically, I believe that baptism saves you and it brings that person into the Catholic church. A Protestant pato baptist would commit differently. Baptism doesn't save a person. It points expectantly to their salvation in the future that must still happen. So a Protestant pato baptist, Presbyterian method of smothers, they would say, this isn't saving this baby. But we are doing this in faith as a family and the expectation that one day they will be saved. Is it true false or neither that what dedicating your child is to a Baptist? Pato baptism is to a Presbyterian. I would argue it's very, very close. Like I've heard them. I've heard pato baptists kind of half jokingly make fun of people like us. Yeah. When actually we don't do baby dedications at like point, we do parent dedications. There's theological reasons for that. But I've heard them sort of half jokingly make fun of Baptists that dedicate their babies and they call them us to drive baptism. Yeah. It's close. There are some slight differences. But that's actually, I'm going to say it now. I forget to say it later. For my fellow credo Baptist out there, for people who had only baptized believers, one of my pet peeves is when those who would agree with me would look at a pato baptist and say, oh, well, that was stupid and didn't mean anything. Like no, no, no, no, no, no. Like, make your parents were dedicating you to the Lord. They were doing that and what they believe is obedience and they are doing it with the expectation and hope and prayer that you're one going to debt, you're one day going to have a faith of your own. So please, if you're a fellow credo Baptist, don't, don't mock it. Don't be a jerk. We can say, hey, and then like we were going to talk about we don't believe it's the biblical model of baptism, but still affirm what the parents were wanting to do for their child. The other big thing it does in the pato baptist tradition is it brings the person into the visible local church. So they are actually a part of what they would consider the new covenant community. So big thing here, they believe that baptism is the new testament equivalent of circumcision. And the same way that circumcision was the entrance into the covenant of the Old Testament people of God, baptism is now the new testament equivalent of that. So again, they're not saved, but they are a part believe that as well, just with the nuance, right? A little bit of a nuance. We would say that they are part of a... We still say it's a covenant symbol. Yeah, we would say, oh, big time. That's why actually what makes this conversation really tough is that there are caricatures and straw men in every direction. And then we lean into those and it's hard. We end up talking past each other instead of actually having meaningful conversations with each other. Okay, a Protestant credo Baptist is different. So whereas a Roman Catholic would say, we're baptizing and therefore saving them of pato baptists, Protestants say, no, no, we're pointing to their future salvation. A credo Baptist say, we're pointing to their salvation. That's already happened. So they're not being saved right now. We're not hoping they're going to be saved. We're doing this because they are already saved. That's the huge difference. I'll tell you why we do that here in just a minute. And then finally, they would... It signifies that a person is part of the invisible universal church. They're already part of the global people of God. You're talking about in credo Baptistism. Yes, in credo Baptistism. We're saying baptism is the public symbol. You are born again in the invisible heavenlies. Yeah, and part of the... Exactly. They're already a part of the universal church when they placed their faith in Jesus. And now they're going into a local church. Good. Yeah. For listeners, Paul's using a little theological distinction. That's really helpful. Theologians will often distinguish between the visible and the invisible church. And the visible church is when you walk into a church, all the people you see. That's a visible church. But all of us know, Jesus said, hey man, I'm going to separate wheat from tears. And you're not going to know who those are until the end of time. So when Paul is talking about the invisible church, he's talking about people who are actually regenerate, born again saved. And really until Christ returns, we're not going to know who among the visible church were also a part of the invisible church. That's what he means there. Sorry. Now it's good. Let me just give a brief reason. Three big reasons why we've landed at like point and we believe credo Baptistism is the right way to go about this. It really three big things. More one, it has the strongest scriptural case. Number two, it preserves the meaning of baptism. And then number three, it protects the gospel. Now let me kind of double click on each of these. It has the strongest scriptural case both in the sense of the clear pattern that is there is that baptism always follows personal faith and repentance. But then also there's a lack of a clear command. So there's the presence of a clear pattern always. Yes, always. Literally every time in the New Testament, baptism is subsequent salvation. Some people would throw out there, well, what about the household baptism? Is that an argument of silence? You said the Philippine jailer. Yeah, that's an argument from silence. It's an argument from silence. What we would say is that good dad went home, shared the gospel with his family and they came to faith. Exactly. And in some places, like in the book of Acts, Cornelius and his household, it says they all spoke in tongues. So if you're saying it in front of them, it was there at that point, you're going to have to believe that. So an infant was speaking in tongues. So that's not every. I mean, I was thinking that I wondered. Just saying it's a stretch. Well, but so to that, maybe so again, what is there is a clear pattern? What is not there is a clear command? So here's if like, let's say I was sitting down with either Roman Catholic or Presbyterian met this, really anyone who's paid a baptism. Here's a conversation of how to go with them with them. Is this okay? So do you think an infant can be baptized or should be baptized? That's good. They're going to say should. They're not going to say that. They should. So I'm like, okay. So what you're telling me is you're binding that just my conscience, but the conscience of every Christian, everywhere that this is something they have to do. And should they say, yes, I'm like, but you're telling me there's no clear command to tell me to do that. Whereas in the Old Testament, there is a clear command to circumcise children, not even by the way, alternate just boys. But now you're saying me that I have to do this, even though there's no clear scriptural command. And by the way, anywhere else that people do this, you would say they're illegitimately binding someone's conscience. If there's no clear command. And they would say yes. And then they would probably fire back at me and say, well Paul, it's because it's so obvious that this is the New Testament version of circumcision. So of course, they don't have to say it because it's not there. My response to that would be, well, if it's so obvious, why do we have no record of infant baptism since the late 100s and early, I'm sorry, the late, yeah, late 100s and early 200s. The first references to infant baptism and even then, totally and at that time, actually wrote a treatise against infant baptism. I didn't know that. So if it's so obvious, why is it that we have no idea? We have no record of infant baptism, clear records for the first 150 years after Jesus in the early apostles. And when we do have records, there's some early church fathers who are actually saying don't baptize your infants. If it's so abundantly clear and obvious. Well, somebody might say to that and we're about to respond to Father Mike Schmitz. But then, but then the church did for like thousands of years, right? Oh, it did for thousands of years. The Catholic church. Sure. It did. But this is actually one of the classic and they also did indulge it. They also had a bunch of artifacts there. One of the classic things that like Ms. Kinsley, oh, Protestantism is new. Well, it is in the sense of it is a re-new movement. When you renew something, you're actually trying to go back and take it back to the way it originally looked. And so I say, yeah, it's long standing. But again, if I don't have a clear practice, let's say it again for the first 150 years after it was done. So like they said, oh, yeah, there's no clear record of us having a Congress or a president or whatever for the first 150 years of a constitution. At that point, it's like, that's a long time. That's a long time. Between the two Protestant groups, what's the majority right now? Well, say that again. Between the two Protestant groups, credo and pito, what's the majority of them? I mean, merically, I would say credo. Credo, not close. Yeah, it's not among Protestants. It's not close. Yeah, I would guess. Yeah. And even for those of us, maybe not familiar with these terms, credo typically would be Baptist or large non-dominational. Really any non-dominational church would be. I should have done this first. Yeah. Can you just explain what those two terms, why it's called pito, Baptist, which is pretty much from any sounding. Pito, baptism, bad actually. Pito, baptism, maybe explain that real quick. We need better words. We pick the worst words sometimes. Okay, these others, whatever. Pito literally comes from the Greek word that means child. In this case, they would say infant, credo, literally, this means the idea of belief, the idea of profession of faith or belief. Kind of a thing that's what that's referring to. So we've got, I think the best script is okay. The other thing, it preserves the meaning of baptism. If baptism is a symbol and sign that I am beginning the Christian life, it should be for those who have begun the Christian life. Like, that's really it. Also, it's a picture of our uneness of this earlier of our, basically our union with Christ and his death, burial and resurrection. That doesn't apply to infants. It doesn't apply to infants. Finally, it protects the gospel. Now we'll be careful here because Roman Catholic, even church of Christ and Lutheran who are also belief in baptism or regeneration, they would say, this isn't a work. Rather, this is the means by which God works to give a salvation. Like, okay, even if that's true, that is such a fine line that is incredibly difficult for this to not basically go to where Paul goes in Galatians. And what I mean about that is in Galatians, there are people who are saying this is a really good point. This is a huge point. They were saying, hey, in addition to having faith in Jesus, you also have to be circumcised. And so now, with these people, say, hey, in addition to having faith in Jesus, you also have to be baptized. I'm not saying that they all should believe that it's just hard not to get there and have it not to slip into that. Whereas you also see, and this is why it's important not to just read isolated verses, but I'm all like Paul and Romans 10 talks about who ever confesses with their mouth that Jesus Lord, and believes in their heart that he is raised from the grave, they will be saved. So he doesn't add, oh, and if you're baptized, we're not saying baptism is important by the way. We believe it's a command that has to be obeyed. We're just saying that it doesn't actually save you. Yeah, and let me just double click on this. And then I'll, let's go to the Father Mike deal. Please do. So to Paul's point, let me just summarize, there's no such thing as a command in the New Testament to baptize your child. There's no such thing. There is a further, there is no example of an infant being baptized that. And then you also have just the nature of what baptism is like, even just think about the symbol. It's okay. It's, you know, dead, buried, raised. It's clearly implying unification with Christ and the cleansing of sins. We all know from about 100 bajillion verses, you are not you, not with Christ, and you're not forgiving of your sins until you place your faith in Jesus. That's the entire gospel. So you stack those three things together, and then I'll just add one thing. So you have, this is why I objected what you said earlier. I think you have at least three examples in the New Testament of unbaptized, saved people. You have teeth on the cross. Is anyone want to, this is a little cheating, but can anybody remember any of the others? I'm, I've been like, googling my brain. I find it. I find it. So people in the cross, when Jesus does the parable of the Pharisee and the tax selector, the tax selector does the prayer. Father, you know, they does his, beats his breast to make the prayer. And then Jesus says, I tell you, this man went home justified. So Jesus in the parable is saying the guy that was penitent and had faith went home and he what was, present tense is justified. No baptism. No baptism. And then the third one, I think is Zacchaeus. So you have Zacchaeus's regeneration. He immediately does this whole, he clearly has faith in Jesus. There's evidence of repentance. You remember what Jesus says? That's it. Salvation comes to his mouth. Today, salvation has come to this house. No baptism. So by the way, let me just say this. What we're not saying is that it's not important. It's real important. We'll talk about it here in a second. Yeah. Let's, uh, let's debunk, uh, Father Mike Schmidt. By the way, man, this is shout out. If Father Mike watches this bro, we're trying, we can't beat you on the, on the podcast rankings. We've, I think didn't we ping up to number two? We were like, we were number two. We got three. We got three. Yeah. Yeah. But we can't get all Father Mike, man. So we're coming for you. And he's got two. He's got like a daily one and another one. So maybe, maybe this will help. I don't know. Well, you know what we need. No, we need, we just, what we need is like, however many trillions of dollars the Catholic church has putting paid ads behind our budget cast and then we'll crush. Take it. Message joke. So this is Paul. I want you to respond to this. This is his explanation of the Catholic position that essentially baptism saves you. And so watch this. Then I want you to respond to this. A lot of times there are some, some non-Catholic Christians who see baptism as merely symbolic. It's, it's not, it's not efficacious. It's the word. It just is an expression of a already pre-existing faith. That's right. The interesting thing about that is that, that was never expressing the Bible. Oops. In fact, the Bible talks about it like this. You know, it acts the, well, how about this in John chapter three? Jesus is talking to the Nikini mess. And he says, unless you're born again of water in the spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Can you respond? Yeah. Can do so oftentimes that is taken by people to mean baptism. But it's actually not referring to baptism. And said that is referring to Ezekiel, Tetra 36 where it says, I will give you a new heart and the new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, which sounds very much like we hear in John three and calls you to walk my statues and obey my rules. And I will sprinkle you with clean water and cleanse you. Then go. And so really what you get there is Jesus is alluding to Ezekiel, which is both about really the idea of the new covenant coming out and the idea of him pouring out his spirit. And it's about the new birth. It's not about baptism. Okay. So then in Ezekiel, what's the water represent there? I think it's just the idea of some kind of a cleansing and cleansing act. And also, what you see sometimes even in the book of John that oftentimes it'll use the spirit and then another metaphor, but it means it'll do the same thing with fire spirit and then wind. Yeah. It's referring to the same. It doesn't have to mean there's a completely different things. Just because it's the spirit and fire that is mean I gotta go hop in my fire place. Exactly. I was here to win. I don't gotta go stand in front of a windmill. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. All right. Let's keep going. So this is pretty powerful. You know, from the very beginning, the church saw those words of Jesus talking to the new forgiveness baptism or unless you're born again of water in the spirit, they saw that as baptism. Now that wasn't well a couple hundred years, a bunch of hundred years. A long time later, people had the thought of like, no, no, no, maybe that means something different. Maybe that's Jesus is saying, unless you're born of water, that means like natural birth. You have to be born first and of the spirit. Like that's some kind of spiritual kind of a thing. Then you can't enter heaven. But for centuries, millennia now, Christians have always understood that to be baptism, the necessity of baptism. In fact, in the Acts of the Apostles, it says, be baptized then for the forgiveness of your sins. The baptism is is talked about as if it actually does something, right? It's efficacious. So it's obviously quoting Acts chapter two, they say, what must we do to be saved? And Peter's response is repent and be baptized. So Paul doesn't that clearly mean that in order to be saved, you have to both repent and be baptized. Exactly. A few things, sir. Number one, this actually helps set up to a huge verse that he'll throw out here in a bit, which is first Peter three, two, one. Yeah, that's the biggie. And I think we need to remember the whole context of scripture and of the gospel is the book of Acts. The last thing that Jesus tells the apostles to do is to go and make disciples baptizing them. And so it's a kind of, it's a couple thing. It is a couple thing. There's not supposed to be this long delay between someone becoming a disciple of Jesus and being baptized. And in fact, if you look through where Peter is involved with people's baptisms, it's always immediate. It's right then. And so you don't have this distance between the two things. So that's one thing is I'd say, hey, part of it is the idea of, hey, you're repenting and being baptized because it is expected. All happen now. Not that baptism is what saved you. Baptism is the act that you take to public identity and why identify with Christ because he has already saved you. And if you don't agree with this, I'd say, okay, so let's just imagine a scenario. I've done this before. I've just some Catholic brothers and sisters. And by the way, I love that he called non-Catholic Christians. I called that briefly and not everyone is that generous generous. That's right. That's probably what my father and my cousin, number two or three, he is. And he's got good hair. My color is so cute. My color is the beginning of Catholic. I mean, give me a joke. I hand some Catholic priests comes onto a podcast. Yeah, I think he was El Salvadorian. I think he might look like that. So here's my question. So, and by the way, I would have brought this up with first Peter. First Peter, three. Three. He called it. He called it otherwise. I've got it. I'll bring this back. I'll bring this back. It's okay. So let's imagine a scenario. Okay. So thousands of people were saved at a Pentecostal price. They get in the line to be baptized. What if one of them dies in line? Hell. Is that exactly what it means? Does that mean he wasn't saved? Does that mean that he wasn't regenerate that he and that moment he didn't have the spirit? He wasn't born again. He was going to go to hell. And they was like, well, no, of course, I'm like, so what you just told me is that it wasn't actually being baptized. That saved him. Because if he was saved, but he had not been baptized, you yourself would admit that that is not what saved you. Another thing I'm going to go do it here and actually I have to do a lot less. Let's get to first Peter three. This is a fancy term, but it's really important. Metanomy. Metanomy. What that word means is metanomy. Metanomy or metanomy or metanomy. Metanomy, metanomy. It's to learn something. It's a metanomy. Oh, the metanomy. Hey. I've got to do something like it's on the top. I have the idea is it is a part of something that can refer to the whole of something. So like, for example, we this is not so much used now, but if your business executives are walking the hall, oh, here come the suits. They're not literally in that moment, just referring to the suits they're wearing. That suit represents the whole of the thing. I'm going to even think about in scripture, do we believe the blood of Christ cleanses us from sin and saves us? Of course we do. Scripture says, well, but does that mean that Jesus could have just gotten a paper cut and blood and that would have covered the deal? Yeah, of course. No, because in that moment, his blood is not just referencing his blood, it's referencing the whole of what's happening, it's like, feeding his death. Great. And so often I believe what is happening is that baptism is used as metanomy, is used as part of it because in their mind, you repent, you believe, and your baptized all the time. So it is a part that represents the whole. Those are few else. It's not merely an expression of belief. It's not merely symbolic. It is actually powerful. It does something. And in fact, St. Peter, when he's writing in the New Testament, he says, baptism saves you now. This is the baptism saves you. That's it. That's first Peter, two ish. Three, three, twenty one. Baptism, quote, which now saves you. That's the biggest. And this is the one, again, this one, whether you are Roman Catholic, Lutheran Church Christ, they would say this is like, all right, that's it. We're not here. Yeah, have any more conversation. Okay, a few things there. First, the verse and passage that those words are in is incredibly complex and convinced. Actually, let me just read them for us. Because if you go back to a few verses to verse 18, it says this, for Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring to God, being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed the spirits in prison, because they formally did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons were brought from, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you. Not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience to the right direction of Jesus Christ. That is one of the most debated passages in the entire New Testament. It's a weird like, what the heck is going on here? It is a what the heck is going on. People usually land in two or three camps, of even what does it mean, what Jesus went and preached to the spirits. It is a very complex verse that you just took a few words from and presented it as very clear when it's actually really confusing. And then let's even talk about the idea of, you know, now, baptism, which isn't a type of this, now saves you. Well, a type of what? It's not referring to actually to the ark. This is what people get wrong with this. It's referring to the water in the Old Testament flood, which is kind of weird when you think about it, because the water in the Old Testament flood was not an instrument of salvation. It was an instrument of judgment. So this verse is saying, baptism, which now is a type of this, saves you. So you're saved by going through judgment, which yes, that's what this is saying. But my point is, is once you actually zoom out from these few words, it shows it is really confusing and a core biblical principle is we don't build major doctrines by what is confusing, but by what is clear and consistently taught through the rest of the Bible. So one of the most important rules of biblical interpretation is, hey, let's interpret unclear passages in light of clear passages. Let's not interpret clear passages in light of unclear passages. Exactly. And guys, the number of verses that make it clear that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone, quote, apart from works, it's stacked in mile high. It literally is as basic as John 3, 16. Exactly. There's nothing. And that's where even just as you run into these, I'm like, does that mean that even like I quoted earlier, Romans 10, does that mean the Bible is contradicting each other? No, what happens is you have these different verses and you got to put them up and teach them, say, okay, how do we make sense of all this? But to say this, it really, I would say, contradicts the rest. If you take these verses in isolation, go ahead. Let's go to a point to make actually read some of this. Just real quickly, I would also have told him, hey, if it let's do, we were just sitting together at this table, say, hey, Father Mike, can we just read the rest of the verse? Because you only just read those few words. I actually read them out loud, but let me repeat them. Baptism, which corresponds to this now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body. So it literally says, not simply because you got in the water and we're baptized. This would have made sense if he was literally just referring to dirt on someone's body. No one would have been expecting him to say this. What this is really saying is like, this isn't about how it somehow magically cleanses your soul. Actually, the board here is not so much sarks that it's your body's refer to as sark. Some people would say is it's more of a moral state. But as an appeal to God for a good conscience, well, let's think about this for a second. They have pinnacles. Other times that Peter baptized it was instant, or nine-centails, it was immediately after they placed faith. Probably what would happen is probably what I've seen happen when other people are baptized right or say believe. And I've seen we do spontaneous baptism that people are called. They're being baptized. And usually in that moment is when they are agusant, Father, forgive me of my sins. Jesus, thank you, friend, that cleanse me of my sin. And so in that moment, this actually just said, what does not save us, not the water and is magically being baptized, is the appeal of a good conscience to God. It is pleading to God. It's just a question of which of which baptism is that expression. And so maybe putting like this briefly, sorry, cause we got to keep moving. When Elisha commanded Naaman to go into the waters to be healed of his leprosy, was it the water that magically healed him? Of course not. No, it was the faith and obeying the command that did that. And you think that's what's going on in the first period of that? Preceded that. Exactly. Is that faith precedes baptism. So again, going back to Pentecost, the people that were in line to be baptized is not like all of a sudden if one doubt for they got some water that they wouldn't have been said. No, they had the faith. They are simply waiting to be able to express the faith they already had. That's great. Let's play that one last minute. And then Pastor Josh, I have a couple questions to just really practical questions. Very holy shout. Three holy shout out questions. That's right. But if there's a baby beginning baptized, how can that baby have faith? It does. Great question, camper. Maybe it's not the baby's faith that's operative in this situation. If you go back to Mark's Gospel, chapter two, there's this story. I know you know this story. It's the story of this paralyzed man, the paralytic. He's on a mat and he has four friends who are carrying him to Jesus. But there's so many people who want to come to Jesus to be healed that they can't get him in the house. So what do the four friends do? They climb up on the roof. They do a little remodeling, make a little skylight there, little chippin' Joanna Gaines kind of situation. And they lower the man down on the mat in front of Jesus. The next line in Mark's Gospel and in Matthew's Gospel is when Jesus saw their faith, meaning the faith of the friends. We don't do it, Mike. He says to the man, your sins are forgiven. No, do it, don't do it. So it's not the man's faith itself. Himself, it's not him. It's not his faith that speaks for him. It's actually the faith of the four friends that speaks for the man. And if that can happen with this man who's paralyzed and his four friends. Don't do it. That also is operative that also can happen in baptism. Because here's parents who profess the faith. In fact, the right of baptism is the parents and God parents profess the faith. And this is the faith in which we want this child to be baptized. Awesome. Yeah. Ah! Oh, three things here. They kind of built into their number one. We have to distinguish between instrumental faith and substitutionary faith. It was their instrumental faith that led them to take the man to Jesus. But their faith was not substituting for his. Because actually with that, why number two, do we assume he didn't have faith? Do we really think if he didn't have faith, like, I don't believe this guy, this Jesus is a fake, do we think Jesus would have really healed him? In fact, some people believe that when it says it's their faith, it's not just referring to the guys, but it's referring to the guy on the mat as well. That's right. That's what I've learned. Oh, it says there, it's just a general plural. And so what's interesting is actually Catholic teaching would hold that once you become of an age of accountability, you have to have faith to be baptized. And so in other words, you can't, parents at that point cut substitute their faith for them. So he used an example where it's a grown man who would have then had to have faith. But now he's saying there's substitute in their faith for him and the Catholic's not believe you can do that. It just kind of goes and circles and goes against you there. Number three, if a guy didn't have faith, which I believe he actually did, but if he didn't have faith, then my question is, so what's the limits here? So why? That's what I thought. That's what I thought. On behalf of the entire nation. Yeah, can I have a behalf of the unviable neighbor? My friend. That's right. Like if you're gonna take this and apply it to a context that as we just showed, doesn't have a one-to-one comparison, then there are no limits. Can I have faith in behalf of someone who actually doesn't believe in Jesus? Of course not. So there's a few points there. Very commonly shout out a question. That's right. So let's get practical. So a pastor, Josh, if somebody says, this is honestly, I hear this a lot. Oh, this huge. If I was baptized as a baby in the Catholic church or whatever, should I be baptized again? Yes, you should. Here's what I'd say that. So first of all, we gotta go back to what is baptism. Baptism is an outward expression of an inward reality of grace. Amen. I have placed my faith in Jesus. By my faith, I've been cleansed of my sins and you're not with Christ. The old me is dead. And I've been raised to newness of life. I don't gotta do the things I used to do because in Christ, I'm not the person I used to be. That was not true of you when you were an infant and you were baptized before you had faith. So just be really honest. Baptism is an expression of your faith. When you are quote, in fact, I would object to using the word baptism. So what I would say is, man, I would just lovingly say, I would just lovingly say that man, when you got water sprinkled on you as an infant, you got wet, I would not call that baptism because that was not an expression of your faith. And by the way, to Paul's point, there's a good thing. That was an expression of your parents' faith. And just heads up, God didn't save last name, he saves first names. So I would say, yes, you absolutely do need to be baptized again. Now, the question that especially Catholics, and I've just said this in Carlos, you can object to this if you'd like, or correct me here, you know, I heard my feelings. Well, I've noticed is especially Hispanic Catholics because they're such, by the way, and this is a good thing that we need to learn from them. There's such a high value on family and Hispanic culture. A lot of Hispanic Catholics that were baptized, that were sprinkled as infants, they honestly have a guilt because they're like, dude, I feel like I'm betraying my mom and my dad by doing this now. What I would say is, no, actually it's the opposite. Is you're ratifying and dignifying what your parents wanted for you? I would just reframe that in your head, no. In fact, when you go talk to your mom and dad about it, what you should say is, is not, mom and dad, you really screwed up as a kid. You know what you should say is, mom and dad, thank you so much for from the time I was an infant pointing me to Jesus. And I have now made my own decision to follow Christ and be baptized. And so I'm ratifying the decision you made when I was an infant. So yes, they do. I was sprinkled as a baby. There you go. By the way, that's my wife's story. Jana was sprinkled in, I think it was Methodist church as an infant. And then when she was converted in senior year of college, baptized again, no shame. There you go. I'm a parent and my seven year old trusted Christ last night should I just baptize him immediately. Yeah, so let me just say this, and this is one where it's like, it's more wisdom than Bible verse. There's not a Bible verse. I can point to it. Here's how you do it. So then I got to use pastoral wisdom. This is a warning I will give to parents. Is I do feel like sometimes at really, really young conversions, it's what you said, my six or seven year old, I prayed with them to believe Jesus before bedtime and then they'll rush him into baptism. And man, honestly, with kids more than adults, and man, we really don't know the why. We need to be discerning about the why of why they prayed with you. Hey man, was it because they saw three of their friends, get baptized at church and they want to, I want to be like my friends, that's how six year olds work. So again, let's go back to what baptism is. It's an outward expression of an inward reality of new birth. So what I would say is what you don't want to do is you have a very young child that expresses faith in some way. I would caution, don't rush them into the water and accidentally, potentially give them a false assurance of something that wasn't genuine conversion yet. What we did with our kids is after they expressed faith, we were watching as parents for age-appropriate signs of genuine conversion in their life. So it's like a couple things I'll tell you to watch out for. Do they keep asking? So hey man, if they're like consistently like, I'm a down really feel like I need to do this. That's a good sign. You got evidence of the Holy Spirit convicting them to do what God wants them to do. Are you seeing age-appropriate remorse for sin? Born again people have remorse for sin, age-appropriate. Are you seeing age-appropriate love for the Lord? We're not talking about like they're acting like John Owen when they're seven. You know, it's like, no, like eight in a seven year old way. Are they showing love for the Lord? And as soon as you see it, I'd say go for it. That's great. So somebody was still wrestling and just trying to bring clarity to everything that was just shared right now. Okay, so Pastor Josh, are you saying that I do not need to be baptized to be saved? I am saying that. I'm saying that again, we're saved by grace apart from works. In fact, I'll go back to this actual passage. So John the Baptist, guys a little baptism line going. And then he looks up and he's like, oh dang, Jesus is in the line. And John the Baptist goes, he essentially has a, you know, who am I? I need to be baptized by you. What the heck are you doing? And Jesus says this is fitting quote to fulfill all righteousness. I think what's going on there is the whole purpose of Jesus living his sinless life, his perfect life, is for him to live a substitutionary life so that every work required for a person to have been perfect, Jesus accomplished with his perfect life. So Jesus was not baptized because he needed a sin's cleanse. He didn't have any sins. I think Jesus, I think Jesus was baptized for the sin. And it is a sin for the sin of saved people who never get baptized. And he did it on their behalf to fulfill all righteousness on their behalf if that makes sense. So again, I'll point back to thief on the cross, not baptized, tax collector that went home justified, not baptized, Zakias salvation has come to your house today, not baptized. So no, we're baptized, you don't got to be baptized in order to be saved. But what I would say is it's real dang important. Yeah, I want to kind of guide something to that. And it's going to start at first like I'm contradicting, but I'm really not. It's like in Christian thought, especially in Protestant thought, it's like our good works necessary for salvation. No, if by that you mean we have to do a certain amount of good and not do a certain amount of it in order to be saved. But yes, if you mean that after you are saved, man, you seek you want to please God and you want to obey Jesus. And so there has to be some kind of an evidence. Like the thief on the cross, an example that you have to do any good works to be saved because he couldn't. But he's also, he died after that. Whereas them, the evidence that Jesus has done and worked in your life is that man, you're going to want to obey him and change. And so I will say for those who are like, it's one thing that maybe people want baptized because I fear the water or whatever. But if you're like, no, I just want to do it. I refuse to. I would have the same level of fears, maybe too hard of order. But like if I met someone who's like, I will not give up this sin in my life. That's not the bad thing about another one. I refuse him. Like, you got to really ask yourself, man, is like, you're not really trying to teach him to obey Jesus? Yeah, I've really been my need to know what you're saying. So it's not that you're not going to be saved. Because it's just, hey, it's probably, if you're just refusing to, it's probably a good to stop and ask, why am I refusing to obey Jesus right now? What made that show the Mike say to my heart? Last one, I was baptized a long time ago. And when I got saved, I was baptized a long time ago. When I got saved when I was younger. But I stride from God. Now I'm receding my life to Jesus. Should I get baptized again? No, you should, man. Baptisms wanted done. We already mentioned that. And a lot of people do this. Let me just say it's a well-meaning mistake. Yes. Let me just honor it's a well-meaning mistake. Nope, nope. If you've been baptized subsequent to your salvation, that matter if you strayed and are come back to the Lord, that's not how you rededicate your life to Christ. Baptism is a visible symbol of salvation, not a visible symbol of rededication. There you go. So, no, man. Just repent. Star following Jesus, you're going to do great. That's great. Amen. So Jesus was baptized with water. He was a model for us. And the Bible says that the Spirit descended upon him. But then John said some verses literally, like right before, he said that Jesus would baptize you and I if you're a Christian. That's you as well with the Holy Spirit and fire. So is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I think? Yeah, let me just talk about some things that didn't make it into the sermon here. I'll try to do this briefly, but I will be honest. Some of this stuff, this is the exact, this why I do this podcast. Because this is the stuff, I would die to fit into sermon. And I just, I never got time. So, quick theology of this. First of all, a ton of unnecessary denominational fights happen over, quote unquote, baptism of the Holy Spirit. And again, I'm going to go back to whatever you're going to call it. You're going to call it baptism of the Spirit. You're going to be filled with the Spirit, I don't care what you call it. Rededicate your line of care what you call it. So let me just say we're penicostle people can get it wrong. And let me talk about where some, especially like my team, I come from a Baptist team where we can get it wrong. So what, here's what's wrong. When you'll hear some penicostle people say things like, well, if you haven't been spirit baptized, you don't even have the Holy Spirit. Wrong, do not pass, go, do not click $200. Romans 8.9 specifically says, if anybody doesn't have the Spirit of Christ, they don't belong to Christ. And in fact, you back to the beginning of the Gospel of John, I'm going to shoot you really straight, man. No one would ever even get saved if the Holy Spirit was not actively at work in and on their life. You would never have chosen to believe in Jesus and you never would have chosen to repent of your sins unless the Holy Spirit had done a renewing work inside of you. So it's simply wrong when a penicostle person is like, oh man, you haven't been spirit baptized. It's a salvation. You don't got to tell the Spirit. Nope. Everyone who belongs to Christ has the Spirit of God at work inside of them. Now, here's where my team can get it wrong. Is some people say, no man, once you're saved, you've got everything. There's nothing else to get. Stop seeking something you've already got. Okay. And dude, I want to point this out. And this does get me in a little hot water because the team, you know, come from. I'll just point this out. That is simply not the pattern of the New Testament. It is simply not. In fact, I'll point this out. I'll give you three examples. You have Jesus breathed. Lot of people with this. Jesus breathes on the disciples in John chapter 20. And essentially, I think the gospel is signifying. This is the moment when it was clear. All of them had saving faith and understood the worship of Jesus. And he breathes on them and he says, receive the Holy Spirit. This is John chapter 20. Just 50ish days later in Acts chapter two, after they have already received the Holy Spirit in Acts chapter two, the Spirit of God descends on them, you know, in the form of you see wind and fire. And the Acts chapter two specifically says they were filled with the Spirit. Question, Paul and Carlos. How did people who already had received the Holy Spirit in John 20, 50 days later, how are they filled with the Spirit? Because there is something that God has for Christians subsequent to their salvation that is a unique encounter with the Holy Spirit. I'll do two others real fast. That in fact, take those same people. Those same people in Acts chapter two are filled with the Spirit. Do your homework later and go read Acts chapter four. The exact same group in Acts four is, quote, filled with the Spirit again in Acts four. So some impartation of the Spirit, they did not have. They received an experience in Acts chapter four. And then the big one that makes it really clear and pop quiz, this is not a trick question class. When Paul writes the book of Ephesians to the church at Ephesus, is he writing to people who are Christians or people who are not Christians? Christians. What is Christians for? What is Christians for? Christians. And yet in Ephesians 5, 18, he says, do not get drunk on wine, but and he says to Christians, be filled with the Spirit. And the verb tense there is an active verb tense. It's continually seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit. And he's talking to people who are already saved. And it's a command. It's a command. You are commanded as a Christian to further rest of your life be seeking a fresh encounter and a fresh feeling of Holy Spirit. I hit this real fast in a sermon, but if you've never noticed this, I cannot emphasize the importance this enough. Jesus in the gospels never does a miracle, never heals a person, never gives a prophetic word, never preaches a sermon until after his baptism, his spirit baptism. Jesus did all of his ministry in the power of being filled with Holy Spirit. If Jesus needed it, heads up, bro, you need it. So kind of do this real quick, and let's move on and talk about Isom. We'll lock her down. So this is what didn't make another sermon that I always wish at a time. Would you mind if I read to you some quick encounters of towering figures throughout church history that most people do not know recorded their filling with the Spirit, subsequent to their salvation, Carlos, would you mind if I read some of these real quick? I will allow it. You jerk. Now keep this in mind. Keep this in mind. What does being filled with the Spirit do in the New Testament? Acts one says it gives you power for witness. Romans eight, the Spirit testifies with our Spirit the wear of children of God. It gives you assurance of salvation, a direct assurance. You are my child. And number three, Ephesians three says, I pray that the Spirit may strengthen your inner beings so that you may be able to grasp how wide and long and high deep is the love of Christ. The third thing is it gives you a unique encounter with the love of the Father. Now, as I read these, the omni is real fast. This is D.O. Moody. One day while walking on Wall Street in New York City, Moody was suddenly overwhelmed by a powerful sense of God's presence and love. And then he wrote, one day in the city of New York, oh, what a day I cannot describe it. I can only say that God revealed Himself to me. Listen, and I had such an experience of His love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand. And then Moody records that after that experience, He was preaching the same sermons He had preached before that experience, but before nobody got saved. And after that experience, the second grade awakening happened. Well, love of the Father, assurance of salvation, power for witness, okay? Let me do another one. Jonathan Edwards. So heads up. If you think the only people talk about spirit baptism are like wild emotional carismatics, this is Jonathan freaking Edwards. He read His sermons. He read His sermons monotone. He was arguably one of the most brilliant periods in minds in history. Jonathan Edwards said this, the spirit of God, this is an experience he had subsequent to salvation. The spirit of God seemed to be poured out upon me with an extraordinary influence. My soul was led away in a kind of vision. And I had a view of the glory of the Son of God. And it was that experience that led him to write religious affections, which is arguably his most famous book on how, essentially, it's how the role of feelings in the life of a Christian, okay? That's Jonathan Edwards. John Wesley, okay? Here's John Wesley, one of a biography about him. About a quarter before nine o'clock, while he, this is the guy he was in a spot where somebody was reading the preface to Martin Luther's commentary in the book of Romans. Like you do. Yeah, as one does. That's one Friday night. That's one doesn't a Friday night. About a quarter before nine, while he was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, listen to this language. I felt my heart strangely warmed. Now remember, what if what a Ephesians 3 says when the spirit fills you? I pray that you may be strengthened in your inward being by the power of the Holy Spirit that you may be able to know how wide and long and high and deep are the love of the Father. Is what Wesley says, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt that I did trust Christ alone for salvation and an assurance was given to me that he had taken away my sins even behind and saved me from the law of sin and death. Love of the Father? Assurance of salvation. Let me do my favorite too. So blaze Pascal, okay. French mathematician, not exactly your wild emotional pentacostal. Okay. French mathematician. This is honestly the most mysterious one of them all to me. So blaze Pascal later in his life had a radical, a radical salvation. And he stopped all of his mathematics work. You learn some things that he postulated when you were in high school. He stopped all of his math. And at the end of his life, he wrote something called the Pences, which is essentially it's like a Christian apologetics book is what it is. I read half of it in college. And nobody really knew like, why did he stop doing math and just start writing about Jesus for the rest of his life? When he died, they found inside of his cloak that he was wearing on his horse, a piece of paper that he had sewed into the inside of his cloak. And on it was his journal entry from Monday, November 25th, 1654, where he had recorded his experience of being filled with Holy Spirit. And no one knew until he died. And this is what he wrote. And bro, this is fascinating. This is what was written. Monday 23rd November from about half past 10 at night, until about half past 10, about half past midnight. And this is what this way says, all caps, fire. God of Abraham, God of Isaac, God of Jacob, not the God of the philosophers and of the learned. Watch, certitude, certitude. Remember what do we say? Baptist and Holy Spirit results in assurance of salvation. The Spirit of God testifies with our Spirit the way our children have got Romans 8. He says, certitude, certitude, feeling, joy, peace, God of Jesus Christ, my God and your God, your God will be my God, forgetfulness of the world and of everything except God. He is the only, he is only found by the ways taught in the gospel, grandeur of the human soul, righteous father. The world has not known you, but I love this, but I now know you. Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy. This is a French mathematician. Joy, joy, joy, tears of joy. I have departed from him. They have forsaken me, the fount of living water. My God, will you leave me? Let me not be separated from him forever. This is eternal life that they know you, the one true God and the one that you sent, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ. Now what he does right here at this last part, is he starts confessing who he was and describing his salvation. I left him, I fled him, renounced, crucified, let me never be separated from him. He is only kept securely by the ways taught in the gospel, renunciation, total and sweet, complete submission to Jesus Christ and to my director, eternally enjoy for a day's exercise on earth. May I not forget your words, amen. And they found that soared into the inside of his cloak after he died. That's a man who was in the words in the New Testament sealed with the Holy Spirit of the living God. Now do one last one, it's much shorter. For our Catholic brothers and sisters, let me throw you a bone. So Thomas Aquinas, who Protestants have a love-hate relationship with, because Thomas Aquinas, he's the, I think basically every Catholic would say Thomas Aquinas is the greatest Catholic theologian church history. He wrote a massive volume, it's called the suma theological. And what he did is he took Aristotle's Aristotelian philosophy and he tried to like make it have a baby with Christian theology is what he tried to do. And basically his whole thing was, man, actually, you can't have a direct experience with God. So you kind of got a reason up to him. So if you've ever heard like the eight proofs of God, Thomas Aquinas came up with the original postulation of the eight proofs of God. Okay, but then, this is really interesting. At the end of his life, something happened to him and he stopped writing the suma theological and never wrote again. And this is what it says in his biography. Then after spending the whole of his life demonstrating how man has no direct contact with immaterial reality, Aquinas shortly before his death had such an overwhelming direct experience of God that he wrote no more. Urged by a friend to complete his great work, the suma theological, he answered, this is really interesting, his way said, I can do no more. Such things have now been revealed to me that all I have written seems as straw and I now await the end of my life. He had a direct encounter through the Holy Spirit with God. Amen. So then I'll just real quick say this. This happened to me. It was now 10 years ago. I read, I'm a show it. I read this book Joy Unspeakable by Martin Luther, who's a Presbyterian. There's our shout out. Oh, Martin Lutherians. Oh, sorry, Martin Luther. Sorry, Martin Luther. Martin Luther. Martin Luther. Joy Unspeakable. It's about power and renewal of the Holy Spirit. And I was few years into my ministry in Nashville. As I read that book, the only way I can describe it, at Janna would say, it was as if an agony overcame me. And I mean an agony. Like I couldn't sleep. All I could do was keep reading. He makes this argument in the book about how being filled with the Spirit is something we should seek. And it was an agony. It was like the pain of childbirth. I was in a, I was in my car driving circles around Cool Springs, Galleria, and Franklin, Tennessee, listening to sermons from two pastors that I won't name about being filled with the Spirit. And all I can say, I don't know how to say it, something happened to me. I don't care what you call it, something happened to me. And I started weeping uncontrollably in my car and shouting out loud for God to fill me with the Spirit from the top of my head of the bottom of my toes. And it was like a presence of God filled my dagum car. And the only way I can describe it is it felt like I was being attacked by love. From the end of the year, honestly, when I read the El Mudi story, I kind of the same. Before that moment, I honestly, I was kind of a failed youth pastor. I shrunk the first youth ministry I had. It grew from 160 students, like 120 students while I let this ministry. I was a few years into my church plan in Nashville. And before that moment, the ministry had grown moderately, few percent per year. After that happened to me, you got, and I'm not going to tell a story here, rehash. You heard me tell the story of the lady getting healed of near total deafness in the middle of my sermon. That happened right after this. If you've ever heard me tell the story of like, sometimes God will give me genuine prophetic words while I'm preparing a sermon. And I'll know I got to say this in the sermon. And there's that story where God told me to say, somebody came in high today and you didn't know that. And sure enough, it's like a kid that stumbled in high. That happened right after that. After that moment, supernatural manifestations of the spirit's power have intermittently, not always intermittently, marked my ministry. And I don't know how to say it. Ever since that moment, I have been unable to lead a ministry that did not explosively grow and see radical amounts of salvation. Why? Acts 1, 8, you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you. And you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in Judea, and Sumeria, and in the Enzer. So what I would say is every Christian asks, seek a knock, your Heavenly Father wants to give you this gift. And I will just put it, put it, put it, put it, put it, that this right here is why would you prayer and worship night at Lake Point. Yeah. The reason we gather tonight is I will lead everyone in praying for a fresh feeling of the Holy Spirit. And every year we see thousands of people have a new encounter. Mm. Holy Spirit teaches how to want you more. Come on, man. Well, hey, Lifer Nation. Let me share something exciting with you. We want to invite you to the most important night of the year for our church. That is our night of prayer and worship. This is a night where we come to the living that God still heals. He still restores and he still moves. And so on January 21st from 7 to 8.30 PM, at Central Standard Time, we'll gather to worship and pray with faith for miracles, for breakthrough, for the next generation, and for the one more God is still reaching. And so this is a night to bring your need, your burden, your unanswered prayer, and trust God to do what only He can do. We are believing as a church for change to break, for hearts to be renewed, and lives to be changed in the presence of God. And so to hear more about this event, text award, events, to 20411, or you can visit LakePoint.church slash events and select night of prayer and worship. If you are in the DFW area, or maybe you live in a different state or city, and you're willing to drive or fly and come visit, join us in person at any of our seven campuses, or you can also worship with us by joining church online via YouTube, Facebook, or LakePoint.live. Hey, come expecting. Come hungry, come believing. Mark your calendar January 21st, and be a part of what God wants to do. We're going to shift gears a little bit here as we... Hard emotional gear shift. Very hard. And we got to click. If you're new to the live free podcast, we want to address practical discipleship issues every single time, such as baptisms like we just did. We call that ground war. But we also want to address things happening in culture and society from a biblical perspective we call that air war. And just recently something happened in Minneapolis that was pretty significant. And a woman was shot and killed by an ice agent. And so some are saying it was murder. And what happened to her was totally unjustified. Other people are saying the woman was using her vehicle as a weapon against law enforcement. And so what the ice agent did was self-defense. And now there are protests and vice president speaking into this right now, Governor Waltz has issued an order to prepare the Minnesota National Guard. Don't pull. Okay. So come on, punch. I want to get into this. Here's the big idea. The big idea is as the... As of the mumble recording this podcast, I'm texting with pastors in that city. The big deal right now is it's getting spun up into like, they're telling me, hey man, it's starting to feel like the beginning of the BLM thing right now, like riots are forming. So I actually... Y'all want to talk... You ready for that? So you're gonna give me a talk about that? How should a Christian respond to make sense of this? So what Christians need to understand is heads up, man. The same dad gun play is getting run on you a million times. And if you don't start to... This is why this is a room important. If you don't start to understand the play that's getting run on you, bros, it's like the football team. It's like the defense is playing against the football team. And hey man, we keep running up the middle every single time and they keep getting eight yards on that run every single time and you're not adjusting your linebacker. Hey man, you need to know the play they're running so that you can adjust your defense. So man, they're trying to run the same dad gun play. So here's all the point out. And some of this stuff is a little... I'm always nervous, I'm gonna say something you guys don't want to be associated with. But I'm just gonna go there and you need to just a valby later. So heads up. Here's the same dad gun play this getting run. All right, so here's what it is. It's manufactured outrage in service of an activist cause. Here's the play that you need to know is getting run over and over and over. Manure factored outrage in service to spin people up in service of an activist cause. So like heads up. If you go back to BLM, all right. So you go back and there was a whole deal. How to BLM start? It's 2014 to 2015. You had the Michael Brown deal where he was killed by a police officer. And then immediately everybody was like, hey man, he said hands up, don't shoot. He, that's what the narrative was. He said hands up, don't shoot the police officer and this police officer just shot this guy down in cold blood. And so all over the nation, you remember this, all over the nation, protests and riots happen here in Dallas. Like we had two or three city blocks that were set on fire and destroyed. I think it was like 13 police officers in Dallas were injured or murdered. And we remember what the battle cry was. The rally on cry was hands up, don't shoot, hands up, don't shoot. Okay, so that's what happens. And everybody just reacts instead of, they just react instead of reflecting. And then it gets spun up, all right. So that happened. Well then, whoopsie daisy. The Obama, remember, I wanna highlight this, the Obama administration, the Obama administration, the DOJ does the investigation of the thing. And guess what they find? Okay, go to that first one. Eventually they find out, this is the Obama administration, the Obama Democratic DOJ. It was all actually, we're really sorry, hands up, don't shoot, didn't happen in Ferguson. They started, they started interviewing all the eyewitnesses. Actually, that's not what happened. It sounds like it actually was, was a justified self-defense thing. I'll behalf of the officer. Officer was not charged. And that's the Obama administration saying that, you saw the same thing, go to the political article, or article, political, same thing. Years later, no, no, yeah, go back to the last one. Yeah, this is actually NPR. Years later, hands up, don't shoot. Movement built on false rumors, columnist says. Go to the political one. Years later, after massive riots, an enormous amounts of damage and murders all over the country, political, hands up, don't shoot, ranked one of the biggest panocchios of 2015. So here's what happens. You get, you get an immediate false claim, this, based on just, we're just reacting instead of reflecting. It's then leveraged to spin people up into a destructive sort of activist thing. And then way after the fact, people like, ah, man, we're really sorry. That's not actually what happened. I'll give you another one. Let me, yeah, yeah, okay. This is from this same incident up in Minneapolis. This is, I think, two days ago. Show the proud socialists. Okay, so this is one. So this post, now, first of all, notice the title, the handle of this ex account is at proud socialist. I don't have time to talk about this. Essentially what they're doing is a play out of a book called Saul Olinsky's Rules for Radicals. At some point, we should do an entire episode on Saul Olinsky's Rules for Radicals. It's the playbook of progressive deconstructive socialists. On here's how we're going to destabilize societies and usher it in. What they're doing, this is a, this is right out of the Saul Olinsky's Rules for Radicals. So this gets, by the way, this tweet has, as of right before this podcast, 14 million views. Wow. So 14 million people, here's all they see. Okay, here's all they see. It reads another horrifying image out of Minneapolis. Look at the terror on this man's face. As a federal agent points a gun at his face and threatens his life. Enough is enough. Our government is committing war crimes abroad and murdering and terrorizing citizens at home. Listen to this last sentence. We need a revolution. Okay, so we're trying to manufacture outrage to spin it up. Why? Because we need a revolution. And it's what's that handle again? Proud socialists, okay? So if, no, no, no, keep it up. So if that's all you saw, you'd be like, bro, that actually does look really bad, man. It looks really bad, okay? Does look really bad until you see what actually happened. Go to that first video. Here's the reality what happened. Watch, this dude is over a line that they had already drawn. The agent is pushing him back, peaceably, he grabs the agent's firearm, he initiates contact with the agent's firearm, and then it just incidentally, because he grabbed it, points at his face for one second, while the agent is trying not to point it at him. But they freeze frame one little moment from the thing and use it to manufacture outrage. Now let's go a layer deeper. Here's what we also note. This tweet says the agent was pointing a quote, firearm at the man's face, implying he's trying to shoot him in the face. Okay, let's see the actual video. It's not even a firearm. Check this out. Boom, his pepper spray. I was wondering. It's pepper spray. So that's it, you can take it down. So here's the point. Somebody will free, go back to the original image, the first one we showed. Somebody will freeze frame a deceptively edited moment for the purpose of manufacturing outrage. Why to destabilize law and order? Why so that we can usher in an activist moment that we want? So I've given you two examples of this. So here, again, bro, if you're a football team and the offense keeps running the same running back at the same gap in the line every single time and they keep getting eight yards every play, move your linebacker. So this is what Christians need to get better at. Having actual discernment, discernment, when stuff happens. So I wanna show you how this exact same thing happened in this whole Minneapolis ice thing. So first of all, what you have, I'll set it up. Again, Christians are a law and order people. Romans 13 and the book of 1 Peter. We are commanded to quote, be subject to governing authorities. That's what we are commanded to do. We can talk about this sometime on a different episode of the podcast. There is such a thing as a Christian theology of civil disobedience that is where Christians disobey laws. Christians have done that all throughout history. But the only time that Christians should do that is when the government either commands something the Bible forbids or when the government forbids something the Bible commands. Otherwise, we should be law and order people who are subject to governing authorities. I'm just gonna tell you how I do with my kids. We teach our kids all the time. I will regularly do this. Actually, I'm gonna get to that later. I'm gonna get to that later. All right, so let's set it up. What you have right here in Minneapolis is you have lawful governing authorities enforcing just laws with lawful warrants for lawful arrests. That's what you have. All right, now, the play that I told you was getting run. It's the exact play they got run this week and it is getting spun up into a mass hysteria deal. So, now heads up, if by the way, if you are a pod watcher, we're gonna show a video right here of the incident. A woman is killed in this video, but you can't see the woman. I don't watch videos of people. I don't like seeing people die. You cannot see it in this video. So, it has a, but if you don't even wanna see a shot fired, you do see a shot fired. I totally get it and you can skip forward. But here's the, so first, this was the first video of this incident that went viral. So, go ahead and play this guy. So, she's the one in the Honda right there and she's blocking ICE agents to try to keep them from doing the job that they have been committed to by government. These guys come up and we're gonna believe out some things. And they're telling her to get the car out of the way. You're impeding law enforcement. Okay, so there it is. So, do it in front and then she, you can stop right there. So, if that's all you see, it's honestly, it's a little unclear. It's like, hey man, it's hard to see the officer in the front. She ends up, the car ends up swerving to the right. And so, it is, it leaves you with a question like, hey man, was that necessary? It left you a question. Now, when you first just see the unclear video, again, remember the play that gets run? Is deceptively edited or unclear image or video weaponized? Let's spin people up into something so that we can activate for an activist cause. And that's exactly what happens. So, unclear video comes out and instead of reflecting, everybody just starts reacting with like anti-law enforcement rhetoric. Show that one from 10, so Tim Walls hops up and he literally is using language that Minnesota is quote, at war with our federal government. Okay, so this is before any investigation. This is before any more footage has come out. They've just seen one thing and just were just firing from the hip and using words like, Minnesota is at war with the federal government. I'm gonna read some quotes from the mayor of Minneapolis. Guys name is Jacob Frey. He said this was an agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying. And again, no investigations taking place. He's seen unclear footage. Another quote, they are already trying to spin this as an act of self-defense. That is bull, I won't read what he said. He gives another message to ICE, get the F out of Minneapolis. He's, you know, he's cursing these guys. And then he encouraged citizens to quote, show up in front of ICE before the shooting. So he was, he was instructing the citizens of his city to impede legal law enforcement before they came and heads up, somebody did it. Somebody did it. You have a million other things. Jimmy Kimmel, you can toss that up. Jimmy Kimmel, again, no investigations taking place. Jimmy Kimmel just hops up and he says, about President Trump, he isn't just about President Trump. He's saying he isn't just killing people overseas, get the bad word out of Minneapolis, get the bad word out of all these cities. And then he holds up a t-shirt on national television that I think it said President Trump will try to kill you too. So again, these are just no reflection, just reaction. A media assumption police officer was obviously wrong. Then just as happened in the other two incidents, just then the next day, a little more clear footage comes out. And this shows you the incident from a different angle that somebody got footage of. Show that slow motion deal and you can kind of see it. So we'll pause it, pause it and go back to the beginning. Now, it's grainy. So watch really closely and you're gonna see, so again, here's the question, whatever I was saying was, oh man, she didn't even hit him with the car. She was trying to avoid him. And there's no way there's a self-defense until you see a different angle. You can play that guy. Boom. I mean, you see it right there. It's a hard smash right in his body. Boom. So you got it. There it is. And but wait, it's too late. The damage is done because everybody took an unclear footage and just spun it up immediately to destabilize, destabilize society and weaponize them against law enforcement. And then I'll go a layer deeper. Then it came out the next day. Again, no investigation is taking place. Then it came out the next day, throw the next thing up. That exact same, if you're wondering like, man, why did that guy act in self-defense? I know he was hit by a car and a car can for sure kill you, but I wonder why he acted in self-defense. Came out the next day, that exact same ice agent that had to defend himself when that car got rammed into his body. That same dude was dragged 300 feet attached to somebody else's vehicle while executing an arrest warrant on an illegal immigrant. Resulting in 33 stitches not six months ago. And this guy they had to arrest was a convicted sex offender. So it's like dude, it's like, dude, this guy literally was just dragged 300 feet on pavement six months ago. Exact same thing starts to happen here. So here's a deal, man. Let me just like as Christians, how do we need to think about this kind of thing? Number one, two things can be true. Two things can be true. Is it a tragedy anytime somebody is killed? Yeah, man, yeah, it is. That's a tragedy. It can also be true that her choices resulted in that tragedy. Those two things can be simultaneously true. So let me just talk about how Christians, because listen man, I have a feeling you're going to see that same play get run over and over and over. And notice this, it is always in service of galvanizing people against God-ordained sources of governing authorities. You're going to notice that. There's a spiritual reason for that. So first of all, let me just say Christians need to people who reflect and not just react. So like we have Bible verses for how this stuff should happen. All right, Proverbs 187. Whoever states his case first seems right until another comes an examin' him. Whoever states his case first seems right until another comes an examin'. If you see a selectively edited video or image, one thing seems really true. But we're supposed to be people who reflect and go, hey, let's pause, let's wait until we understand the situation. And then let's make a judgment. I will say this, just watch this. So watch how this works. So again, we talk about this frequently. What critical theory trains people to do is it trains them to view society through an oppressed oppressor lens. What that does is it trains you to where you already quote unquote know who the bad guy is and who the good guy is before you know any of the details just based on where they stand in the social structure. So I know this is super awkward, but I'm just going to say it. So like for instance, what critical theory does is it's like, hey man, there's oppressed minorities and then there's oppressor white police officers. So then if you start thinking that way, whenever you hear a Michael Brown or whatever the situation is, you predetermine who the good guy is and who the bad guy is not based on any evidence of the case, just based on where they fit in the intersectionality structure. Well, heads up, if you're already, by the way, the same thing happens with a million things. It happens with abuse allegations. If you're the type of person who you have already decided who the good guy is and who the bad guy is before you hear anything just based on their identities and where they fit in intersectionality structure, you are not interested in justice. You're just an activist for a cause. Okay. So like, if there's a shooting, and it involves a white police officer and a black resident, and you're just like, why already know that the good guy is and who the bad guy is, you're not interested in justice at all. You're just an activist for a cause. Same thing, and I'm gonna use a biblical analogy. You have an analogy in the Old Testament, the Book of Genesis, where there was a claimed sexual assault. And Potiphar's wife looks at Joseph and she's like, he tried to rape me. Well, if you're running an intersectionality play and you're like, well, you know, you have a woman and women obviously are oppressed by the patriarchy. You have a woman and a man and she's claiming to be a victim of sexual assault. And you just predetermine who the victim is and who the perpetrator is just based on the identities of the people and where they fit in intersectionality structure, you're not interested in justice. You're just an activist for a cause. That is why you have to, again, whoever states his case first seems right until another comes and examines him. The whole reason we do that is Christians is, here's what people say, is if you, in these emotionally charged situations, if you say, hey, man, actually, let's pause and let's wait until we know all the details to figure out if the officer acted justly, what people say is, oh, well, you're just propping up this oppressive white supremacist, the same thing with the sexual abuse allegation. If you say, okay, there's an allegation, that's really important. We take that very seriously. Now we need to conduct an investigation to make sure that we understand what actually have people say, oh my gosh, you're just re-traumatizing the victim. You're supposed to believe all, well, think about the biblical situation of Joseph and Potiphar's wife. You don't know who the victim is until you do the investigation. Potiphar's wife claimed to be the victim, but Joseph actually was the victim of a false allegation. So this is why Christians need to be people, hey guys, let's de-emotionalize. We need to completely deprogram ourselves from intersectionality instincts that pre-decide who the good guys are and who the bad guys are just based on where they fit in intersectionality structure. And we need to be people who, again, it's, I don't know if people realize this, hold your broadcast. The entire American ideal of innocent until proven guilty guess what I came from. The Old Testament. Yeah. The Old Testament. So we need to be people like we care about justice, we de-emotionalize. We ought to be the people who are like, okay, we're not gonna walk out and riot before we know what actually happened. No, no, we're people of thoughtful reflection, not just emotional reaction. And that's how we need to understand these things. Okay. Further thoughts? Agreed disagree additional comments. You know, hurt my feelings. A couple things. I mean, you said earlier, I mean, multiple things can be true. And I mean, this, as you said, is tragic. I think she was a mother of three. That's right. So that's three kids who lost them all. That's a tragedy. That's a tragedy. That's a tragedy. And I saw another angle of the video that FBI agent was breaking down. And from the other side of the vehicle, it looks like the wheels returned right. So she may have been trying just to get away. And by the way, we'll never know. We don't know her intentions. And so it's very possible that she wasn't trying to hit the guy. She was trying to get away, but she got afraid. She acted impulsively. And the rest was a tragedy. She was an accident. But you also have to remember, as you kind of talked about, there's also the offer search point of view where he acted impulsively. Not even knows the story before you shared that about what had happened to him is put yourself in his shoes. That's exactly right, man. And all of a sudden, a vehicle is coming at you. And she had seemed angry and aggressive. And I just imagined that most, but not just coming at you. I just want to emphasize this. Not just coming at you. We saw that it strikes you forcibly. Yes. And six months earlier, you were just dragged 300 feet on pavement by somebody who tried to do the same thing. Oh, by the way, why? Because progressive governing authorities are calling you things like the Gestapo. Exactly. And if you're at his angle, he doesn't have time to look to see where the wheel is turned. He just knows he's getting hit by a car. And I think if most people were honest, they would have impulsively pulled their guns to. This is not nearly the same. But I've been out hunting or hiking and twice the bears went within 10 feet of me. Or I thought a cougar bear was right behind me. You know what I did both times? I instinctively pulled a weapon straight at him. The second time, there was nothing there. And I felt a little bit of a fool. And luckily, no one was around me to make fun of me. But the first time the bear I was hunting, well, came out and sprinted. It made a right turn and ended up 10 feet away looking at my son of me. I didn't seem to be able to hunt. I grabbed the rifle. Bear. I grabbed the rifle and pointed my run. I just said, just shoot it. No, I was like, run away right now. And my finger was on the other hand. Well, he had not immediately, we were trying to get an elk. If he had not immediately turned away, I'm just saying, I didn't think. I didn't say, oh, was he aggressive to me? I just instinctively wins that mode. And if we are going to empathize and put ourselves in the shoes, the woman we have to do the same with the officer. That's it. We have to do the same. I think to your point, it's been my last thing. Crosby, I'm going to show you what you say. I think we all have to, you said it right. The idea of man reflection, not reaction. I just want to say with that, we have got to train ourselves to be slow. That's right. To take our time. And I'd say especially now on our day, mean, the stuff you mentioned before in 2015 and then further riots in 2020-21, that was before AI. And so I just want to say, Christian, it's fast. This applies, by the way, to accounts that maybe you're putting out stuff that you usually agree with. Don't immediately trust what your eyes see. It's the world we live in now. We always have needed to be sort of reactive. We now need to be almost 10 times slower. Let dude process happen, let the truth come out. And the mean time I just say to people, it's like, don't get me wrong if injustice has been done for sure. There's a place to raise our voices respectfully in a right way. But then also, man, let's just, me and my guy actually has been, can I pray for that woman's family? Can I pray for that officer? Because he may have just been active instinctively. Now he has to live with that. Yeah, those are just a few thoughts. Yeah, I think back to what you're saying, Pastor Josh, I think the situation points to something greater going on. The Bible says we don't wrestle with flesh and blood, but against spirits and principalities. There seems to be, every time you see something like this, just overall in our nation and you see it all over on social media, there seems to be a spirit behind all this that basically it just rejects all authority. It wants to tear down all the systems. It wants to rebel against everything in outrage is very nihilistic. And the Bible calls that a spirit of lawlessness. That's right. And so Jesus talked about this in Matthew chapter 24, when he was talking about the end times. And he says that in the last days, lawlessness will be increased in the love of many rule-girl code. And so again, it's this rage. This one's down everything. It's a reactive rage. It's filled with just anger. And I think back to what you were saying, as Christians, we want to acknowledge that there's a spiritual reality to this. But also, we want to be sober-minded. We want to respond, react. We want to destroy arguments. And we want to love people. And if something is not right, we want reformation, not lawlessness. We don't just want to tear down. We want to point towards solutions. And we also want to submit to our earthly authorities knowing and having the confidence and reminding our earthly authorities that they are also submitted to a higher authority. That's exactly right. And that's God. And so that's why we trust our earthly authorities because we know that there's a higher authority there too. And so I think, yeah, just to remind us, like, man, there's a spiritual reality behind it as well. Let me connect it out for you and then we're done. So you are laying your finger on the issue underneath all the issues. So what does the Bible call Satan? It calls him a spirit of lawlessness. The Bible says in the last days, lawlessness will abound. And then do you remember what the Bible calls the Antichrist? It calls him the man of lawlessness. So think about why did, and I was going to connect this directly to this situation. Why did Satan rebel against God in heaven? Because he refused to be under any authority. What is at the epicenter of the beating heart of the black heart of Satan? I refuse any authority over me. Now, if you watch, you will note that there is a spirit of lawlessness is the undergirding spirit underneath critical theory and everything that it embodies. In fact, if you watch it, what critical theory essentially does is think about this. The Bible says that God has established three. He's instituted three institutions, that's a little bit double there. Two structure society, three authorities. What are they? The family, the church, and the state. Those are three authorities that have been established by God. The Bible commands people to submit to all three authorities, children, obey your parents, honor your father, mother, and the Lord, with a church. Obviously, it's all the Hebrews passages about submitting to your leaders and honoring them. The state, where specifically commanded, 1st Peter, Romans 13, submit to governing authorities. If you watch, very interesting, ask this question, why is it that this entire secular progressive movement? Why is it that it just violently seeks to overthrow all three of the exact institutions that God gave as authorities? If you watch in secular progressivism, bro, what does it teach that instead of honor your father and mother, the whole vibe of secular progressivism is blame your father and mother. Blame your father and mother. Blame your father and mother. What does it do when it comes to the church? Secular progressivism is, this is so obvious. That's where the whole deconstruction movement comes in. It's the whole apostasy thing. The pastors are the bad guys, rebellions, their authorities, overthrow the oppression. And then what does it do when it comes to the state? That's what it does. So listen, it's the spirit underneath the situation is a spirit of lawlessness. It absolutely has a spiritual impetus behind it. And it is the spirit of the enemy that refuses to submit to any authority. And so it's specifically, he specifically targets the exact three authorities that establish by God. Family, church, state, rebellion, period. That's it, man. Pastor Josh, in line of that, would you pray for us? Yeah, I will, man. Father, we do, even right now, we want to be people who are sober-minded, who let all that we do be done in love. And so even right now, we pray for that situation. I pray for the city of Minneapolis and the state of Minnesota and the precious people who are there, that you would protect them from evil and a spirit of lawlessness and anything that would happen because you love those people and you want their good. I pray for that woman and her children and I pray for that officer who's gonna be having a hard week. So father, would you be with him? Lord, more than that, right now, I pray for everybody that's listening that you would make us into patient, peaceful, peacemakers, like your word says, sober-minded disciples of the living God, here, everywhere we go, we are people of wisdom and prudence. And we bring the peace of the Lord Jesus Christ with us wherever we go, solid in light, in society, in our families and our churches. Father, I pray for a lot of people to hear this and take the step of obedience to baptized. And I'm gonna go ahead right now and start praying for mass outpouring of your spirit, at prayer and worship night for us at church. Holy Spirit come, you are welcome here. We pray those things in Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Are they free, brother? They're free. Here we go. Here we go.