Coco w. Héctor González

Hello, you. Welcome to You Are Good at Feelings Podcasts about movies today. You're talking about Coco. We're talking about it with my great friend, Hector Gonzalez. I am your host today, Alex Steed. We're going to talk about death and dying and our cultures and our ancestors relationship with things that make us squeamish and our relationship with things that bring us closer together. I am stoked to do this with you. This is, of course, You Are Good at Feelings Podcasts about movies. You are good at Feelings Podcasts about movies. This is exactly what it sounds like. We are here to talk about how movies make us feel and think about who and how we are in the world. We are not film critics. We talk about movies and we talk about the feelings they unlock within us. Hector's been on the show a number of times before. We love Hector. Most recently, in a bonus episode about Guillermo de Torres Frankenstein, Hector's been on for a bunch of other episodes in the past. Love Hector. We will have Hector on again, no doubt. And speaking of bonus episodes, we have a new bonus episode that just dropped about reality bites with Courtney Kossack. Anyway, thanks so much to everyone who supports us on Patreon and Apple Podcasts subscriptions. We could not do it without you. Anyway, Coco is a 2017 American animated fantasy comedy drama film. It follows a 12-year-old boy in Mexico named Miguel, who is accidentally transported to the land of the dead, where he seeks the help of his deceased musician great, great grandfather to return him to his family and reverse their ban on music. How are you doing? What's going on in your world? How are you feeling? How's it going out there? I know it's a weird time. But you know what we do? To stave off that dread, we show up. We get involved. We get organized. We find opportunities to go do the thing. We do not stay isolated, which is sometimes my tendency when I'm feeling stressed and freaked out. We're not going to stay isolated. We're going to find each other and we're going to show up. It's been a minute since you did so. This is your reminder to engage again if you have been doing what you can and then you're like, I can probably do a little bit more. This is a reminder to do a little bit more. And I'm proud of anything you end up doing. And I appreciate it because we are in this together. However you end up showing up, whenever you end up doing, however you end up staving off that dread, don't forget that you, my friend, are good. How am I doing? How am I showing up? Well, thanks for asking. I was in Vancouver recently and a couple of things. One, I was there when the No Kings protests were happening in the States. And I was reminded of that because I saw an American couple walking around with a, you know, anti-tyranny sign. And I stopped them and said, Hey, thanks for doing this. I'm glad that you're doing it. Love to see you up here. Love to see you doing this. And then the other thing is I went to go see a burlesque show in Vancouver. Vancouver has got a killer burlesque seat, turns out. And I went to go see a show put on by come, sin with me. And I cannot recommend this group of folks enough if you can check out one of their events. No one is asking me to say this. I'm just saying this because I was so moved by the performance I saw. And my, my favorite part of this performance, well, there were many favorite parts of the performance, every bit of the performance was incredible. While organized, amazing vibe, great crowd, just cool, cool, cool, cool. Could not recommend this enough. But, you know, there was a, there was this part in the show when the host, Miss Kiss, asked for people to make bids to an organization that is, let's say, organizing action against the brown shirts in this country, the extra cold brown shirts in this country. And, you know, people did their bids and did their bids, blah, blah, blah. And then I, I was like, oh, I, but when I finally realized what we were bidding on, not that we were bidding to put money behind this action, this local action, I was like, oh yeah, I raised my hand and bid some money. And they're like, oh, you win. And I was like, cool, I don't even know what we're doing. I'm just here. I'm just here to, uh, I'm just here to put some money behind the good thing, especially potent and nice to see as an American, of course, you know, as an American with, um, I think decent ideological insights. And so I, um, you know, then I was brought up on stage by again, the host Miss Kiss, and it was announced to me that here's what we're going to do. You, Alex, in this case, me, we're going to check in on your values and ask you if you support, you know, bodily autonomy across the board and you support sex workers. And of course, you know, I couldn't ask for a better series of questions to be aimed to me and what my life and advocacy work is about. So enthusiastic yeses all around. And then I was asked to sign a book in some, you know, fun theatrical, uh, occult allegiance, which I did, of course, enthusiastically again. And then, uh, some fake blood was smeared on my forehead and I was asked whether or not I wanted, you know, actual spirits or imitation spirits. I really loved that they checked in on that considering, you know, some people are trying to avoid the actual spirits, but I took the actual spirits. And then again, in an extra theatrical way, uh, Miss Kiss then spit tequila in my mouth. And I was like, you know what, I like this place. I like this routine. I like all these people. I'm glad that we're doing it for this cause. This is fun. So anyway, yeah, it, there's a great lesson to be learned from all of our friends in the queer and sex work communities, uh, that, you know, resistance can be fun and funny and, uh, titillating and transgressive. And, uh, it really should be. And any opportunity, uh, that it's possible to do so. I can't say enough good if you are in Vancouver or ever going to be in Vancouver, check out, it comes in with me, the burlesque shows. Uh, I think that the event is, is produced by someone named Jules, uh, really big fan of what they are doing there. Very cool, very cool stuff. Anyway, that's enough about me. You are good at feelings podcast, about movies and made possible with them by your support. Thanks to everyone who supports us on Patreon and Apple podcast subscriptions. We could not do it without you. Last month, we had an episode on Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein. And this month we have an episode on, uh, reality bites. Check it out. We can't do this without you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Please join me in supporting our friends in Gaza and Palestine, more broadly, Palestine Children's Relief Fund is a great place to start. There's a link in the show notes. Check it out. You can find other campaigns all over the place, various GoFundMe's and crowd funds, et cetera, et cetera, but, uh, you know, just do something because all of our struggles are interlinked. Um, and I think that's it for the intro. That was a lot of information about, um, me having tequila spit in my mouth at an event in, uh, Vancouver, but I really just wanted to highlight, uh, again, that resistance, uh, can be fun. And I'm grateful for all my friends in both the queer and sex work communities who remind us of that, uh, all the time. All right, let's dive into this episode. Let's go to the other side. Let's visit Coco, uh, with my great friend, Hector Gonzalez. Hello Hector Gonzalez. Hola, Senor Steve. Welcome to the realm of the dead. Love your shirt, man. Thank you very much. I have to say something about the band, Craftworks. They act like the best old man person band. They say they start at eight, start exactly that time, and they say, we finish at 10, done. Well, did you just see them at Southpaw? No, I saw them last year. They were touring and I went there with one of my best. Did you see the Mexico City show? No, I haven't seen that yet. I want to watch that. Oh, they, they were, when they were touring last time I saw them, they were playing Mexico City, which I wanted to make happen, but it didn't happen. But you were there, not Mexico City, but with Craftworks. Yeah, at the Austin show and it was beautiful. What I wanted. I can't wait for the journey that we're about to go on for many reasons. One is that you refer to yourself as I will eat a actor. Yeah. And this is a real journey down that road. Oh, I mean, if we wanted a movie that covers a lot of quadrants, so for me, the abuelita part, the love for music, that one of the main characters named Hector, I mean, did they write it for me? I am not saying that, but so, so perfect. I can see why this was a choice of yours. Yes, definitely. What was the other, when we were talking about movies to potentially cover? Do you remember what else you had recommended? So the other one that we have been chatting a lot and I hope that it happens soon too, Itumama Tambien. It's formative. It is just amazing. And at the same time, I think that nobody expected that it for Mexican cinema. So it is beautiful. Yeah, I got, I saw that. I think I think I've said this to you. I saw that in the theater with my English teacher at the time. And this maybe strikes as inappropriate and probably wouldn't fly these days, but it made total sense then. Yeah. But yeah, it's one of those movies that you know that is going to change you. Yeah, and it sure did. And so instead, we're really keeping the actor theme going. We're talking about Mexico. We're talking about the culture. We're talking about death. Yes. Because what is more Mexican coded than loving death? Loving that's loving family, having complicated relationships with the preceding generations, having lovely relationships with the preceding generations, Yes. having dramatic reveals about the preceding generations. Love this. If we also want to see something, it's what you want to see in a movie about generational trauma, how sometimes it takes more than one jump from the generation to another to figure itself out. Yeah. And also that like understanding the trauma and understanding how you arrived through the lineage is often like uncovering a mystery, like a true crime mystery. Like this movie for children proposes, which is we're talking not only about death, we're trying to understand who these people were and in some ways like kill our idols as a means of like understanding the actual humans that came before us. What I think a lot, and I mean, I experienced that when I moved to the United States, you live through family myths. You do not know exactly a lot of the situations that happen around the family. And sometimes you need to have a conversation with somebody that you never expected. And they just tell you, yeah, this is my reality. This is how it happened. And you're like, oh, shit. I did not expect that. But it makes everything make more sense. So what are we talking about? And why is it a movie that you feel strongly about? So we're talking about Coco, the Disney movie that became a whole phenomenon. It's one of those where we have a character that wants to realize their dream. It's that first part that you hear on all those stories that, okay, where does this person have a need? And the need immediately manifests on being against everything that the family hates. And by now we should know every time that your parents say something is forbidden, you turn to it and you try to do it twice as hard. So it is one of those stories, but at the same time, and so pretty much connecting with a lot of the family histories that someone didn't know exactly what happened. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about it that makes it so emotional. And how something that you at some point conceptualize in some way completely changes when you know the truth. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I feel like for many people that journey is not always a straightforward one. And often it is like an actual adventure as it plays out here. Oh, completely. And when I think a lot about this movie, it is how it has this kind of symmetry that how you see certain things on the land of the living, and then certain things on the land of the dead, and how these two parts of the family, even if the living one doesn't have such much such prominence at the start, it becomes reflective on the past of all these deceased relatives that are there waiting for the next the rest of the family to come by and celebrate and everything. It is a very peculiar movie. It also, it was something that I noticed something in this viewing that, of course, they completely try to avoid because it's kind of a bummer. And if you think about it, there are no children in that afterlife. Yeah. And all of these are adults. And just by that, the kid and to remember Miguel should have been obvious to spot because, hey, there is the only child that is here. You know, I'd never seen Coco. Oh, this is my first time. And I'm really glad to have done this. I mean, I think like it's one of those. It's a movie that was so celebrated when it came out that it can be easy to sometimes with everything else going on be like, well, how good can it possibly be? Like, are they are they just blowing smoke? And no, this movie is this movie is fantastic. Yes. I'll be honest, Disney, they know when to at that point with that they make you cry. This was just so beautiful. And at the same time, such a way that your emotions are just overflowing because you know, the stakes, you know, how what would be what would happen if everything fails. But it is cathartic that cry that you call you get out of that moment. It's so beautiful. But I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. And if you're only crying one time in this movie, oh, yeah, then geez, get your ducks checked. Yes, we might be getting ahead of ourselves. You're right. Let's get into it. Shall we? Shall we talk about what Coco is ultimately about? Of course. Would you like me to take you on a journey or would you like to be? I would. Hector, you have no idea how much I would like you to take me on a journey. Let's do it. Well, imagine a place that you have never seen that is called Mexico. Well, it's a fake town called Santa Cecilia. And we started with a flashback, especially with the artwork that it is all in this thing called papel picado, that it is used this artisan beautiful way to just depict different kind of scenarios and things in Mexican life. But they tell the story through paper and how a family, a woman emailed Marisa guy and they have a daughter called Coco. But the guy says, oh, I want to continue my musical career, but he never returns. And because of that, email that he says to say no music ever here. And like many women in Mexico, when the man disappears, they start to do their own thing. So she learned how to make shoes. And she becomes a shoemaker. And the next generation becomes also shoemakers. When somebody gets into the family, guess what? You will become a shoemaker. And that's it. Continuing, continuing and continuing. And now we are on current times. And the youngest of the kids, Miguel, he doesn't seem to be into being a shoemaker. He wants to be a musician because he has it in his heart. And everybody who ever wanted to be a musician understand that, that how many times have we heard the story that, oh, you will starve. No, this won't work for you. Or no, this is, this will be horrible. No, it's the more that we try to gatekeep or just keep someone out of that, the more they will want to get into that. Can you tell me about who, I mean, I know you're going to get here plot-wise, but I'm already just looking for sort of unwrapping some stuff. Who is the musician that he likes in the universe and the movie? And what kind of music is that? And what space does that occupy? Because it's like in movies, and it's like, he's both a musician and like a classic movie star. Like, what is this? So the music that he is a fan of, it's what is called a music ranchera or traditional rancho music. And some ways can be defined that way. And the star that he adores that completely idolizes, it's Ernesto de la Cruz. And the guy, I mean, when they did their research, there were musicians that are also were stars in Mexico that they made movies and they completely defined generations. I mean, it is what a lot of moms listen to, and it is music that gets to the heart. And we're talking about José Alfredo Jimenez, we're talking about Jorge Negrete, we're talking about Pedro Infante, that it is the one that it is the most similar to de la Cruz. And the kind of music that they have, it is specifically about healing heartbroken, being at one moment going to the bar and crying for that woman that they are suffering for. And in many cases, the songs are about the economic disparity that, oh, you are in love with somebody that has money, and they don't even pay attention to you or their family doesn't want you even to approach them. It's that kind of drama. And again, the characters that they portray, of course, you have at one moment, somebody that portrayed a priest that also sang. And even if he had due to the Catholic Church, the prohibition to pretty much have a partner or anything like that, every woman was just melting for that boys, because if you listen to just one song from them, it all makes sense. And if you want me to, I'll be happy to just provide a playlist with some examples of Monsi Carrancheira. I would absolutely love it. And you know what I find fascinating, Hector, is that walking around in, I mean, you know, much of Los Angeles, like if not the majority of Los Angeles has folks walking around with Latino, Latino, straight from Mexico, like this was Mexico. There's like that heritage all over. And I've always found fascinating that you can find, I saw it two days ago, I was walking the dog, like you can find a young kid walking down the street on an open speaker listening to this style of music. Where like, you just don't see that with like a white American kid listening to like Frankie Valley. You know what I mean? Like it's like it is from what sounds like it's from another time, but still like extremely extraordinarily present in the land, the current landscape here. And continuous defining generations. I mean, these kind of generate, I think that it is part of our folklore that it has such a grasp on the way that we're defined. That's the part that it is so fascinating, at least for me, that not gonna lie, if I hear some of those songs, immediately just get back into that feeling and get that into that experience of sometimes listening that as a child at the party or use with friends that we hear a mariachi nearby and we start singing it. And in this case, it doesn't matter if you're good or not, you just sing it, you just belt it. And that's one of the essences of that kind of communal element of singing together, that it is not about good quality. It's not like, oh, everybody needs to be into, no, it is just let it rip out of your heart and cry. Thank you for taking me on that side quest. I'm sure there'll be a couple more side quests. So Miguel wants to play music. The family are shoe people. Yeah, we're bound to have a clash, a coming of age clash. Completely. And there is a moment when the family finds out like, oh, you are into music and Miguel inspired by some of the people and especially for by the theme that Miguel de la Cruz has a slogan, just do whatever it takes to pretty much succeed. And he takes it too hard. The family finds out and the grandma decides to break the guitar that it's heartbreaking for him because he fashioned that guitar as the one of his idol. And one element that we figured we didn't put in there. So a lot of the stories also told about the time of the year that this is happening. So this is close to Dia de Muertos. Also, some people will call it Dia de los Muertos, but it's the day of the death in Mexico that it is a celebration of three days where we honor the departed. And it is a mix of some Aztec delives, but also a lot of the Catholic influence. So much that a couple of those days it's dedicated especially for the children that is the children that have died because as innocent souls, they do not have the same place to go as some of the adults. So it is a very unique way of remembrance for the families. And growing up, you put photos of the people that you care about that you want to remember and you put some of their food in there that as a way to say, I hope that you like this. And you adorn everything with sempasuchil that are marigolds, those beautiful jello flowers that not gonna lie after a couple of days, they start to stink. Marigolds do go. Yes. So if you think that initially you're like, oh, I'm gonna put marigolds everywhere, be aware, they stink. You know what? We don't just come to feel, we come with practical advice here. And that's important. So ofrenda 101, those flowers will stink. So paper flowers, also a good idea. Keep that in mind. So that's what happens that because of an accident, the dog that he has called Dante, for some foreshadowing there, the dog by accident just pretty much destroys the ofrenda. And there is a secret reveal that the photo that shows Mama Imelda and Coco, that initially it's ripped, Miguel opens it and says, oh, it has a guitar. So this, I mean, I can see it. And he says, oh, it's the same guitar that Ernesto de la Cruz had. So immediately thinks that's my grandfather. That's part of my relative. So this is even more important that I need to be a musician because it's in my blood. I want to continue with this heritage. And surprise, surprise, there is a music competition, the center of the town. And unfortunately, he doesn't have a guitar. He goes everywhere looking for a guitar, ask everyone if they somebody can lend him a guitar, nothing happens. And he I have to say, he goes for the first resource of every desperate musician, grave robbing. And he decides to break into the la Cruz, I think the mausoleum where his guitar is hanging there. And because we're going with magic, because it is a special time of the of the year when he plays the first chord, the marigolds that are around just pretty much flutter. And he even notices like, oh, something's happening. And people here notice outside that somebody took the guitar and he starts panicking things. Oh, I'm going to get cut. This is going to get all bad. Surprise. When he somebody comes in, nobody noticed him. And now he's a ghost. What was your relationship with the afterlife as a kid? It's peculiar. I was not going to lie. I was very privileged because the death and the passings that were happening around me were sometimes kept away from me. I think the first person that I remember that died around me, it was my grandfather, David. And all that I heard, it was that somebody killed him. But I never understood why. And it was part of those meeting that mythology that you never understand when you're a kid. And only when you're later in life, you talk to some other people, they give you the real stories behind that. As a kid, not so much death. We respected the death. And we had a friend as I remember, especially mostly for some of other aunts and other relatives that sometimes didn't even have the privilege of knowing. So it stayed almost like very far away from me. And I recognized that I was very fortunate in that case that nobody close to me passed away. And there is also this other part that I knew that some other friends had these experiences and relatives, uncles died. And I understood the grief or journey that they had. And I knew that it was hard to at one moment, not have that presence next to you, someone that you depended upon. And you cannot interact with that entity again. And how difficult it is. When I think a lot about death currently, I think that when my grandmother passed away, that was one of the first times when I was struck by grief on a dramatic way. And it was mostly because so I mentioned my grandfather, David, my grandfather, grandmother Elena, at one moment she moved to the United States when she was 30 years old. And I never understood why she did it. And when I moved to the United States, we came to help her because she had a medical necessity of somebody to take care of her. I asked, why did you move to the United States? And her answer was to purchase my kids back. My grandfather put a price to the kids and said, if you don't pay me this amount of money, you won't see them ever again. And at that time, when I managed to know her, to understand her and to get to identify it so much with her grief, I think that was what made her passing so dramatic because I honestly admired her medal, admired her dedication and the strength that she showed to at one moment. She raised enough money, she managed to bring her kids to the United States and give them a better life. I think that's when death became very, very real for me. Yeah, and it ties in so well to what we're talking about here because so much of what is being portrayed with regard to the import of honoring those who came before us and honoring memory and honoring afterlife is as much about honoring where they have been as it is a reminder for us to keep our character at the fore. I think that there's often a struggle about what can or should I do to uphold family tradition and get caught up in the tradition element. And that's very understood. That's a struggle that many people have. But in Miguel's story here and just even in the story that you're talking about with regard to your own family history, part of the important thing is honoring where you came from for sure, but also being able to dig into that with regard to assessing how you want to show up. Exactly. And I'll be honest, when I came to the United States, I was a little bit directionless. And hearing her story gave me a lot of appreciation for what she did, made me very grateful of her strength and made me understand that the kind of sacrifices that she went through used to make things happen. And it was kind of a reality check for me because I needed it. And I think that whenever we hear some family histories, there is a moment when we can identify through them, when we get to see something different. And to me, it was the realization that she came to the United States at 30 years old to try to recover her family and do everything that it was necessary to do it. And I was at the same time. It was I was also 30 years old when I arrived. And I didn't know what I was doing. And that helped me kind of figure myself out like, well, what do you want to actually do? Yeah. All right. So Miguel finds himself in the afterlife. Yeah. And for some surprise, he stumbles upon some of his relatives and immediately recognizes them. And I have to admit that making them physiologically similar to the skulls to their face in life, it was a perfect detail. It is cartoonish, but at the same time, I don't know why, but it filled me with so much joy because that's another part of the Mexican traditions that we tend to depict a lot of people as skeletons as calaveras. And that comes from a long tradition, thanks to an artist called Oh, I just remembered the name. It will come back eventually. But he was the one that created these images that everybody associates with the death in Mexico. La Catrina, that woman that is so elegant, but at the same time, it's just a skull. It is just a skeleton, but at the same time, it is dressed up to the nines and, you know, she has a style. She's fantastic. So that kind of representation, that's another element that they did well, that it was show this part of the culture as how we imagine ourselves. And these artists, I'm sure it will come back in a moment. What he does, he created these scenes of common life and how the world was seen for the death. Like they were still, let's say, falling in love with other people. They were still talking to their friends. They still got drunk like any other living person. And it was kind of reassuring in some way that, oh, even in death, you can still have all these other joys that you are so accustomed to. But you keep seeing this kind of motif that everything is decorated that same way. Oh, the name of the artist, it's Jose Guadalupe Posada. And he completely changed how a lot of people in Mexico viewed death, because in some way it was demestified. And that has been for a long time for us that I cannot say that everybody in Mexico is not afraid of death, but we kind of see it almost like a game. In fact, one of the traditions, especially around the day of the death, so we create these kind of satirical poems about each other called calaveras, where we pretty much tell each other, hey, so you're gonna die this way. I mean, you try to do that currently in the United States, and I don't think that it's gonna sit so well. Not ideal. Not ideal, but in Mexico, it is kind of like what we do. It is another way of joking about our mortality. And they joke about the kind of characteristics that you have that if you are fat, they will say something that, oh, you ate yourself to death. Or if you were too tall by accident, you just pretty much hit a bridge, and that's how you bite the dust. That kind of things and everything in crime. That's the important thing that you keep it as a game. And seeing death as a game as something that it is not as scary. I think that not everybody sees it that way. Yeah, I would agree. Yeah, I think the way in the United States at least is more of a being motivated by shame and fear of death situation. So I don't, you know, other people do things differently. Completely. I mean, I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong, but our country is very sick. So I don't know. And at the same time, I mean, when you think about the kind of costumes that a lot of people around Halloween adopt, tends to go around that kind of theme that they dress as calaveras, they dress as skulls. And there is that charm that completely, I don't know, maybe for one night, they are not so afraid of their mortality. And I think that in some ways, healthy. And so at this point in the story, this is where he finds that he is, I love a afterlife bureaucracy movie. We've talked about that in the show before. I can't believe we haven't covered a life less ordinary yet, which is one of my very favorite afterlife bureaucracy movies. But we have afterlife bureaucracy. We have like there's also some of the incoming, outgoing stuff is treated like border crossing, which is amazing. And like there's like a bit of like an airline air travel bus travel motif going on. I really love how death is conceived as a mirror of the whatever the modern time is, which feels really important, because like also there's this conceit where it's like, if your photo is not displayed, you are not going to be on the friend of you're not going to be remembered accordingly. And that sort of has impact on how you exist in the afterlife. And I can only imagine that that is a tradition as old as photos, you know, and make you think, how do you tend to remember ours in life? I mean, again, going with my theme of being an abuelita, I think a lot that whenever I'm cooking certain things that my grandmother made or the way that she did certain things, I knew that was that stays with me. When I think about my mom and how she cooked certain items. I mean, I have a molcajete that it is older than me. I have a comal also that it is so oddly shaped that I don't think anybody else has had something like that. And makes me feel special makes me feel that some of those flavors, some of that past it's infused on those instruments and those recipes, or just thinking about how you enjoy their presence in certain matters. That's how we remember a lot or through the teachings that they gave us in life. Yeah, absolutely. The teaching such as you can never enjoy music for the rest of your life. I mean, if you use that as a motivation, I mean, you can be as petty as you want to. Sorry, my TV, the dog just sat on the remote and turned the TV on. Hold on one second. Judy, what did you do? So appropriate. So now we have Alex Steve negotiating with the dog who wants to watch Coco again. I mean, no notes. Good dog. She turned Coco on, which is very funny. I mean, maybe she wanted to cry again. Yeah, maybe I mean, maybe it wasn't her. Maybe it was my family. Hey, if we think a lot about it, I think that whenever we have a memory of them, they kind of appear next to us and tell us, Hey, yes, this is how you see things going. So where do we go from the afterlife? So we go with the afterlife with the problems of, okay, how do you cross on the to the land of the living to visit them? And more importantly, to see that you're being remembered. As you mentioned, you need to have a photo. And if you don't have a photo, I mean, it was kind of scary when you try to make a run. And that marigold bridge starts to swallow you, doesn't let you continue. And it is kind of scary. And that's an important element also on some of the mythology that we have in Mexico about the lands of the death. The traditional mythology in Mexico, if you wanted to go to the land of the death as a living person, you needed to pass different lands and survive different kind of challenges. So having to do the same if you are dead and having you want to go to the land of the living, it's very on theme. So I enjoy that. And we end up meeting the other the other protagonists here, Hector, somebody that doesn't have somebody that doesn't have a photo. But it's trying to get to the land of the living mostly because he wants to see someone that is dear to him. Don't worry, Miguel asks no follow up questions. Exactly. Because Miguel's on his journey and understatedly actors on his journey. So they're both focused. Yes. But yeah, conveniently Miguel asks no questions. So Miguel has a can return to the land of the living if the family gives him his blessing that it is just a marigold pedal that it is imbued by the family. And he receives one from the grandmother, but lo and behold, he grabs again the guitar, plays it and it gets thrust back into land of the death. Right, because her stipulation is I great you to go back but you can never play music. Exactly. And he says no, that's not who I want to be and decides to escape. And by surprise listens to ends of hearing Hector saying, Hey, I know Ernesto de la Cruz, I can get your tickets and everything. And Miguel convinced that that's a relative that will give the blessing decides to do the next important thing. Oh, I need to go with this person that is also famous in the land of the death, because he will give me his blessing, and I will be able to go back. That's the next part of the quest. The first quest was I want to be a musician. Part of the quest I want to play on the festival. Oh, I don't have a guitar. Now I have a guitar. Oh, now I'm dead. Well, that makes it a little bit harder. Now I need to return. So that's the next part of the travel that how they get together to try to return. The first he needs to get a guitar because again, there is another contest that it's around music. And if you win the contest, you get invited to the party of Ernesto de la Cruz. So his goal is to hopefully win that contest, but they need a guitar. And that's when we see a little bit like the sad underbelly of the after world. What happens when somebody starts to forget you? And you see that when somebody forgets you when nobody puts an offering that remembering you, then you completely disappear from that land of the death. And it was interesting to see on the one side you had the whole society that it is living on these beautiful houses adorned with different colors, these trains moving around everywhere. And it has almost like turn of the century, Mexico City on the early 1900s vibe. But also you see the slums and you see the people living there that forgotten. And I mean, it's also a very valid analogy of how a lot of the people that live on those kind of conditions in Mexico, the people that are not cared for or simply ignored. I really love the part where we find out that the folks who have not been remembered in the afterlife all ultimately sort of treat each other as family. Exactly. It was a very touching, not in a side, but you know, this movie is so packed with just things that are going on within it that it's something that's kind of mentioned in passing. But I found it beautiful. And I think that one of the beautiful things about the movie is that it creates this world. It feels very well crafted to really reflect a lot of the Mexican idiosyncracies. That's one of the things that I identify a lot because when they got to that land of the death, it felt very Mexico. It felt very, very us and not going to lie. They hired the right people to do this. I met so many maters and designers that work on this and they got pushed to be as Mexican as they could. And that's one of the things that I found very interesting that they got reminded, okay, you're doing this. How can you give it a little bit more umph? How can you make it even that it looks more like we wanted to be? And that was the result. Something that even it was made in the United States, it represents Mexican in a way that I think we haven't had the chance to do it in many cases through some animation before. Well, and it's also a fascinating approach that I mean, I really can't speak to Disney's history in this arena. There are other people who can and obviously Disney as a behemoth has a fascinating and often difficult history with regard to anywhere that requires sort of being character forward. But you know, I think that like a thing that a lot of for years, for decades really that a lot of companies got wrong with regard to like quote representation was being like one of the characters should be brown or like one of the characters should be black or whatever. But there's no, there's nothing about that identity within the character and it's not necessarily sort of created by folks who have the same. It's just like there should be a person who is visually different than who is predominantly being represented in the movie. And I do find this like such a refreshing alternative to that approach, which is like from top to bottom, you know, left to right, the entire universe of the movie should be different from the universes that we typically occupy. And that is accomplished just by going to another country and like drawing sort of richly from the culture. And it's part, I think, the Disney method these days that when they decide, oh, we're going to make a movie about this, I want every part of the production chain to know about these as much or even more than some of the people that are there. And instead of trying to say, oh, let's all train American animators to know about Mexico, they mostly look for Mexican animators. They help them getting trained and they flourished with that kind of support. And that's that's something that I have to say it's admirable, because instead of just hiring people that they thought, oh, they know the technology and they will be able to get the vibe. No, we need the people that has this vibe in their veins and are able to pretty much translate it into the animation that we want to see represented. So we get to meet a friend of Hector that sadly disappears because he gets forgotten and they managed to get a guitar. And they are also trying to evade the family that they are trying to look for them. And they show something that I thought that he was also very cute and that they represented that way. They show a big animal. I think it's a panther or a jaguar. I think it's a jaguar that has wings. And it is called like the spirit animal or the guardian of the of the other world from Mama Imelda. And that kind of art, Alebriges, it is one of those things that when somebody looks at them, it is just paper machéved with such beautiful, such vibrant colors and patterns and everything. It completely makes you fall in love with that kind of things that you can do with that. I had the fortune of going to a place where a whole family dedicates themselves to that, like this family that dedicates to make shoes. Every element of every part of the family, it is an artist and it is creating these designs. And each one of these is individually different. And some of them take six months to just create. And I was curious to see, okay, how long does it take to a family member to actually get into the production line? And I was told they need to prove that they are good making figures for three years to us. After three years of being good enough for the family, that's when you are able to join the main group. But when you see the kind of things that they make, the amount of beauty that this entail, I mean, I'm still fascinated by that. And it's a form of art that we have in Mexico. It's traditional. And I can also provide some links to Alebriges for people to review and see. When you find one that you fall in love, you immediately say, oh, I want that. I want that with all my heart. What's ironic is one of those family members pulled you off to the side and was like, I just want to make shoes. Yes. Help liberate me from the family of artists and find the shoemakers. That's how it happens. That's how it happens. So the family is looking for him and the afterlife. The family and the land of the living, we do not know what's happening and they do not matter now. At some point, Miguel manages to participate in the music contest and he completely kills. That's one of the things that I love about it because that's another part of the ranchera music that it could be about heartbreak. But when it is about just the joy about expressing how you feel or trying to win someone. I mean, the song, it's about how when you fall in love with a person, you get kind of crazy. And that's what it is about, that it tells you, oh, I just go a little bit crazy whenever I think about you. And who has an experience that when somebody is just completely in love? And they do not mention if he won or not, but he ends up escaping. He also has some kind of, he has a breakup with Hector because Hector finds out, oh, so you had family here and you lied to me. And then also Miguel says, oh, you also lied to me. It seems that you don't know this famous person that you said that you did. So it is at that moment when both of them take their separate ways and Miguel just by luck or just using his skills, manages to sneak into the party and taking again the same advice, like seize your moment, do what you need to succeed, decides to impress the La Cruz singing at the event where he is. And it is kind of fascinating because it is a party with who's who you need to know of the afterlife in Mexico. And for a lot of people in Mexico, of Mexico, they said, or at least they recognize some of the famous people that were in there, from comedians, from singers, all of them were represented as also as the undead. And I think that was one of the reasons also that so many Mexicans love the movie because it was just, oh, they knew about this. Oh, they see this. I mean, Frida Kahlo was an easy one to pretty much add there because everybody knew, but some of the other ones that are mostly known by us culturally, can team flasks that was a comedian that had, I think, at least 40 movies in Mexico or more and made the jump in the United States at some point on the first version of Around the World in 80 Days. He was the double A of I'm trying to remember the main character of that book, but he that's how it was he was represented there. And he's iconic because of the way that he expressed himself. So it was beautiful to see all of them together with this partying and the afterlife with this other person. It was representative. And then we get to the point when everything goes to I love I do want to say I like I died with the Frida bit. Oh, yeah. She says it's so fucking funny where she's like describing sort of this like surreal scene ultimately that she's creating. And then she says like at the end, she's like, is it too obvious? She's like, no, I think it's just obvious enough. I think that's good enough. I loved that interplay so much just her and this this like intense her and this like little kid. And it was a breaking the tension that you needed. You needed that comedy bit. And honestly, it was just perfect. The line is so funny. It is the dancers will emerge from the papaya and all the dancers are me and crawl home to their cactus mother. That is also me. And then it starts sucking up the teeth. It's so funny. Yeah, I honestly, when I went to art school in Mexico, it was for graphic design, but oh, the kind of things that some people did just I used think that it is in Mexico, we have this almost innate surrealism in the way that we perceive certain things that oh, do you want to make this absurd? Let's do it. And it almost comes natural to us. That's what I have to say that I don't know if it's an approach in life. I don't know if it's genetic. But man, where did that shit came from? But we get to the point when we start finding some realities. First, Ernesto de la Cruz is not related to them. And then we find out that Hector used to be a musician with Ernesto. And then we find out that Ernesto ended up poisoning Hector, mostly because he wanted his songs. Right, because because Hector was threatening to leave or he was going to leave to go back to do some family stuff. Exactly. And Ernesto is like, you can't leave. You're the you're my songs. This is like a real like film noir thing. And then he poisons him, according to which like doesn't get him. I mean, did he get a songbook? Was that the significance? Yeah, he gets us on the hook. And also he stole the his guitar. Right. That's where everything came from. So the lack of rules decides, Nope, I do not need you. I do not need this mess out of sight and decides to throw them into a cenote just pretty much to leave them. I don't know what was the plan after that. But he just leaves them there. And then comes a realization that Hector was actually my email, this husband, that was the lost relative. That part of the photo that was ripped. That was him. And first they have the realization that oh, we're so I'm so happy that you are my relative. I'm happy that I have met you. But then there's think, oh, how we get out of here. Well, in the break in the family, right, like the wound in the family comes from them thinking that they were intentionally left. Exactly. Abandoned. Right. Abandoned. And he and the reality is he's trying to come back, but he is murdered, you know, for greed, ultimately. And so, you know, this works on a number of levels. One is that it gives Miguel a member of the family who he can relate to, because otherwise he's feeling like very alienated. And on the other, like helps repair the family's story about itself, which, you know, I mean, I think also that what's very relatable is I think a lot of just from a almost to not on the nose, but it's like a very on the nose illustration of what happens with grief within a family where faced with the grief they overcorrect to the part where they're like, I'm going to save myself by not enjoying art. And it's like, that's not going to save you. That's going to actually hurt you further. And one element that it is interesting that happens before all this revelation occurs, it's when my email starts to sing and it starts to sing the song La Llorona, the weeping woman, that it is not only a myth. It's also a beautiful song that when she just goes like, it is almost a derch. It is such a so filled with grief. And it tells you that it speaks to somebody that is called La Llorona, that it is somebody that it's a weeping woman. But it almost infects you with that same sadness. And my email explains, I also love song, but when he left me, the grief so was so terrible that singing, it was painful to me. And it happens a lot with this kind of history is that you don't know exactly what happens. I love when all comes together at the big concert of the La Cruz, the family rallies to pretty much recover the photo that got lost that especially hopefully will save Hector from being forgotten and all get together. And especially, you know, the classic that they end up also exposing that he's a fraud. And especially showing that it's almost sometimes very obvious that, oh, I did all this and you're not going to stop me. The villain speech that at the same time incriminates them completely. Surprise, surprise. At the end, when everything ends, he also ends up pretty much on the same way that he died in the first time. A big bell ends up falling on him. That I mean, if you're thinking about comedy, it is a comedy bit completely. If they did it three times, they will have been comedy role. But for sure, they did well. Again, I do love that this is a movie for kids and we have, you know, knocking people off in the afterlife. Yes. It's great. I mean, it's very interesting that it is ultimately it's a it's a classic story of traveling to another world and understanding the rules of that world and how you end up pretty much changed by it. In this case, that change is that he ends up finding out what was the real family history, what happened to the husband, what are the true feelings of Mama Imelda, what are where everything happens. And at the end, Miguel manages to get his blessing back. He manages to travel and Mama Imelda decides to not put any kind of restriction. And I think that everybody feels at this point like, oh, everything got resolved and everything, everything is great. And this is when Disney decided, oh, I haven't made you cry yet enough. So let me double down on this one. Miguel goes back to the to the family and tries to make Mama Coco to remember. And unfortunately, she's unresponsive. And what Miguel decides to do, it's to sing the song that his dad decided to sing for her that initially became a whole hit. But it was something that only sang for her mostly to ask her, hey, remember me. So I really did me an actor. Yeah, that's when pretty much the water works to start because it is that heartbreak of hearing how he's so trying to get a reaction out of her. And then when she starts singing, oh, that hits you like a ton of breaks because it's makes you think a lot about the people that you love, the people that you think that they do not remember who you are. And we see that at the start that maybe it's dementia or as hymors, but she doesn't recognize her daughter. And it is a very hard thing to do that dealing with a parent that you're caring for them. And they do not see who you are. It happened to me with my mom. And it's still something that that I think a lot about. So when Coco ends up pretty much remember kind of having a moment of clarity, and also recognizes that the other and the daughter is just crying. And Coco asked, Miha, what's happening? What is something wrong? And she's like, no, everything's perfect. Oh, God. And the daughter up to this point is on behalf of the family carrying the psychic wound. Yes. She's the one who is smashing the guitar, you know, to preserve the household. She's feeling she's like at the center of all of the pain. Yes. And I think these were also healing for everyone else because she believed the myth so much that she needed to be the next part of the whole thing. And I think that happens a lot on the generations that somebody creates the wound and the next generation reinforces it. And everybody else continues with that same path until somebody decides to, I mean, this was true supernatural methods, but I'm sure that therapy or some other things ends up pretty much also trying to help people that are going to that kind of journey that there is a lot of pain that has been going through the generation. And somebody decides to put a stop or finding a new way to understand the past and then reframe it and say, we do not need to continue through suffering under that. Right. But at the end, Mama Coco saved the piece of the photo that got ripped from the ofrenda. Hector gets remembered again and they tell you one year later, Mama Coco passes away. And she has also her own photo on the ofrenda for the family. And now everybody's embracing music. Now it is part of the, I mean, you can make shoes and at the same time, like music, who would have thought? And you see them again, the family visiting them, they're leaving. And more importantly, kind of also having the time to be part of the festivities. I love the moment when Hector grabs the guitar almost like creates a ghost guitar to also continue playing for the family and the family also by my mail that now that she found out that, oh, you didn't abandon me, you were murdered. And I should be very angry with this person. And they start healing also even the afterlife, even or nearly departed can heal if we think about it. And that healing affects us. Yes. I talk, I talk a lot about it. I feel like I've probably even brought it up on episodes with you, but I talk a lot about this thing that I mentioned to others pretty often where I have, I have a pretty vivid, very quick, like not a long thing, but a very vivid minute, two minute long conversation with my 15 year old self. It's just like a report. I'm like, here's what happened today. It's great. Like things are great. Or they're not or whatever. But it's a sort of dialogue. And in the like, showing up for this like past version of myself, I'm also showing up for myself now. And I think that there is that sort of illustrated here in the afterlife is that it's like, if we are healed, they are healed. If they are healed, we are healed because we are part of a continuum. And what you're mentioning, that kind of mirroring and chatting with you in the past, I think that sometime to time I have a conversation, not with my 15 year old, but with my 25 year old, that at some point he thought he was at the top of the world. And I just think that I chat with him and say, oh, this is not it. But at the same time, I just want to tell him, you know, things that are kind of right now are way better than you thought you would. Maybe you thought that money was the path to success. And nope, that was not it. Yeah, it's good to check in with those people. Yeah. And I hold a lot of tenderness towards Mexico, as I call her. It's just, it's a part of me. And when I ended up coming to the United States to help my grandma, it was a reset. And at 30, I became again a teenager in some way. It may have been a little bit tricky. It may be a little bit difficult at times, but I'm very glad that I did that. Yeah. I think, you know, we do the thing at the beginning where I tell people that they are good. And I hear from people that that can be helpful to hear. And I think the other thing that we need to do that is a little harder to fit into an intro is I think we should have grace with ourselves from the past. Yes. Because that person in our life needs grace more than, more than fast. Because we're very hard on them often. Yeah. I think that we sometimes end up making so many miracles out of the little things that we have. And that's our past. Even the things that we consider as mistakes. Yeah, they were heartbreaking. But ultimately, I think that ended up causing us to try to be better. Especially when we think about them, not as failures, but as a way to try to do better for us. So, Mr. Steve, I'm about to ask you a very peculiar question. What is it? We have multiple parents here. Yes. However, who was the daddy of Coco? Who is the daddy of Coco? I mean, great question. I, you know, I think like the answer to this one is extremely, is to me, very evident. You know, it's kind of rare that we often have to fashion a daddy out of nowhere or pick parts, you know, make a franken daddy as a means of sort of understanding who the daddy is. But to me, this is a movie that like constructed itself around the answer. So I think like maybe the most evident one is Hector, who, you know, was from the get go. Even before we come to know him was just trying to get home and do the right thing. And things intervened. He found himself in a valley of despair, which I think many people would, all things considered, forgot his identity, had to be reminded of the identity, welcome to the challenge, eventually, and was able to show back up with love for the family. And, you know, to pass on a message through Miguel, who was a sort of, you know, down the line of his own family. I really love the story that's being offered here with regard to him. He's not a hero from the beginning. He was a hero, got sidetracked and then sort of fell for a while and then had to be reminded, but he shows up beautifully, shows up beautifully at the end. I love that there was a situation where it was a mystery for both sides. For Emelda, she thought that she was abandoned. For Hector, he thought he failed because at some point he just fell ill and died. He lived with that regret of never being able to see his family again. And it is healed so beautifully how at the end, Mamacoco is there also. And it is the joy that they have just pretty much seeing embracing each other. And imagine that you had a daughter and never had the chance to see there. And in the afterlife, you have the chance again to show her all the love that you always had for her. Yeah, he just wants to get home to his kid. It's so sweet. It's so sweet. Hector, who in your view is the daddy of Coco? Not gonna lie. I have to say that the daddy here to me was Miguel because he ended up inadvertently with his desire to be a musician, ended up healing his family, ended up also correcting an injustice from the past, ended up giving his family the recognition of being the authors of all these hits. Yeah, the singer was great, but who actually created all this? If somebody had the daddy energy of, oh, let me start this like an adventure to the afterlife and on the way back fix all these other things that were affecting my family, I'm gonna lie. That's daddy material. Hector, it's always just a massive pleasure to spend this time with you. It's always my pleasure to be here. And you know, sometimes you just say, hey, do you have chance to do something this week? And I'm just like, let me clear my schedule. Where do we want to go? I appreciate it. I can't wait to continue our cinematic journey together. I would love that. And besides it's my time being remember, Marco Rosso, Mija Saki. Perfect. All right, everybody, that's it for this week's episode of You Are Good at Feeling Twangkast about Movies. Thanks, Miranda Zickler for producing and editing this episode. Thanks to Hector for joining us on this episode. Thanks to Coco for existing. Thanks to y'all, of course, for being here. Thanks for supporting us on Patreon and Apple podcast subscriptions. Thanks to you for being good. You, my friend, are good and we appreciate you. Thanks again to Come Sin with me, the burlesque show in Vancouver. Be sure to check that out if you're ever in town up there. And I don't know, I think that's enough for me, isn't it? We've talked about enough things here. We've talked about death and dying. We've talked about coming to the other side. We've talked about our ancestors. We've talked about our legacies. Pretty good. We did good. All right, y'all, I hope that this finds you well, as we say in a professional email land. And I look forward to talking with y'all again soon.