Why Social Struggles Follow Kids With ADHD-And What Actually Helps

Hi, this is Ryan. In today's episode of the ADHD Parenting Podcast, I'm sitting down with the parents of Kobe, a bright nine-year-old who, like many kids with ADHD, is hitting a wall when it comes to friendships and social motivation. If you've ever wondered whether ADHD meds improve social skills, whether your child is developing anxiety from social setbacks, or how to prepare them for middle school without making drastic school changes, you're going to get a lot from this conversation. Stick around because this is the kind of real talk that gives you practical next steps. Let's get started. Welcome to the ADHD Parenting Podcast with Mike McLeod of Grow Now ADHD and Ryan Wexelblatt of ADHD Dude. Learn about parenting kids with ADHD from a licensed clinical social worker and speech-language pathologist who specializes in ADHD. No fluffy parenting advice, only practical information that will equip you to help your child with ADHD effectively. All right, welcome. I am here with the parents of Kobe, who is nine and in fourth grade. Wherever you guys want to start is fine. I read through everything you wrote. Thank you for being so descriptive. That's incredibly helpful. I was excited to talk to you guys because this is actually one of my favorite topics. A lot of what you shared was my favorite topics to talk about. Start with whatever you guys feel takes precedence. Yeah. Thank you so much for meeting with us, Ryan. We've been following you for a while on YouTube and really, really are thankful for everything that you put out. Thank you. All right. I guess the first point we wanted to touch on was medicine effect on the social aspect of things. What are the expectations around that and what impact should medicine, which we should be looking for for medicine to have on the social challenges that he has? Yeah. It's an excellent question. Here's the difficult answer. There's not a definitive answer for this for a few reasons. Number one, we have to put it in the context of the severity of the ADHD related challenges. For example, medication can certainly help with impulsivity. Medicine can help with emotional regulation. Can medicine help with perspective taking, which a lot of this is based in? No, because no medicine can help you develop greater perspective taking skills. Could it slow you down so you could be a little more self-reflective? Yes. However, if your internal dialogue is not there yet to have a discussion with yourself, to think about how am I coming across to my peers, well, then it's not going to be that helpful. I would say, yeah, we have to look at the medication piece more by symptom rather than the overall social piece. Does that make sense? Yes. Yes. I do have a question about anxiety side of things. We've tested him for anxiety and that's not the case with him, but I wonder if there's something medication can address in regards to maybe his anxious feelings towards, oh, I'm not good at making friends or people think I'm annoying, so I just won't. Yeah. Maybe there's some sort of something in medicine that could help him get past that anxious feeling of like, I guess I'm not good at this. Right. So that he can feel good at it. So let me ask you guys this. Do you think that this initial social anxiety developed out of a result of him struggling with the social piece for a few years now? Yes. It almost comes off as a disinterest. So yeah. So initially, I think it was an issue and then now it's kind of like I'm not going to try. He doesn't ride a bike. So I'm not good at riding a bike. So I'm not good at playing soccer. So I'm not good at handling friendships. So I won't. It kind of feels like that. Okay. So would you guys say is that more anxiety or is that more black and white thinking? Yeah. Maybe black and white thinking. Yeah. And please understand that black and white thinking can be the result of anxiety. What I often see with boys is, boys with ADHD is if they develop some social anxiety around the social piece, it tends to happen later. More 14, 15. I imagine that obviously I think his social struggles have affected his motivation around this, I think. And that certainly could lead to some black or white thinking around this as well. But to get to your question, do I personally think it's worth exploring a medication for this? No, because I don't think that this is anxiety-based. I think this is more what we would call growth mindset-based due to kind of his black or white thinking or all or nothing thinking around this. That's interesting. Yeah. The next question, I guess we had was in, you know, Hang on before we jump to the next thing. So how do we address black and white thinking? I know you probably have videos on that. Am I? You know what? I would. Yeah. No, I think I do actually. You got me thinking. I'm like, do I actually? So what we want to do with black or white thinking is we want to offer a few different perspectives. Right? So we want to say, you know, so right now you're feeling like that, you know, you don't want to, you know, learn to ride a bike because, you know, for whatever reason, well, somebody else might feel this way that, you know, even though it's going to be hard and it might be frustrating that they might want to do it because they realize, well, I'll get to spend more time with other kids then and I'll get to do what they're doing. So that would motivate them to do it, you know, or somebody else might be worried about riding a bike because they're worried that they're going to fall and get hurt and they might, but then they realize, oh, you know what? If I fall, it's not going to be as bad as I thought. Right? So we want to kind of speak out loud and give him an internal dialogue around different perspectives, you know, instead of just, you know, having this all or nothing thing. Does that make sense? Kind of like we want to model what looking at things from different perspectives looks like. Yeah, it sounds like it ultimately comes down to motivation and how do you motivate someone that's not interested in having friendships to want friendships? Well, here's the thing. I don't think he's not motivated to have friendships. I think he just, you know, kind of has taken this attitude again because of the all or nothing thinking this is hard. So I even try, you know, and I think what we can teach him is that, you know, there's, and this is, let me frame with you guys how I would explain to, you know, boys's age. I would say, you know, everyone has things that their brain makes easier to learn and harder to learn. So for me, my brain makes math harder to learn, but, you know, and my brain makes sports harder to learn or to be good at, but my brain makes making friends easier to be good at. Well, for somebody else, their brain makes sports easier to learn or their brain, you know, makes right math easier to learn. So we all have things that our brain makes harder to learn and easier to learn. And if somebody's brain makes it harder to learn, how to, you know, make friends and keep friends, well, that just means that they need to practice it. Right. It just means that, you know, like anything else in life, whether that's riding a bike or math, it just means it requires practice. That's how I would frame it to him. Because we want to, we want to put it in the context of that there is nothing wrong with you, right? It just, it's like any other subject, right? Just certain people think certain people grasp certain things easier than other people. I guess kind of tied to that a little bit is we've been kind of dreading, you know, middle school, you know, coming up in a couple years, kind of knowing where, you know, what his challenges have been the last few years in school. And, you know, we're really trying to think ahead on that because we know that that's, you know, a much more open environment, more ripe for, you know, things like bullying and for, you know, really to kill his confidence, pinpointing the kids who might not be as, as good socially, it becomes way more apparent in middle school. So, so yeah, we wanted, you know, I guess, you know, we started, you know, trying to think ahead and looking at smaller environments, you know, some things such as private school. What are your thoughts on, you know, kind of the environment of middle school, you know, and, and I guess how to prepare our son for that and also, you know, would something like a smaller environment, you know, put him in a better position to kind of grow and foster, you know, his social, social abilities. So let me say it from the perspective of somebody who worked at, you know, an expensive private school for several years for students with learning differences, many of them who struggled socially and who's worked with many more kids whose parents moved them to multiple schools because of their social struggles. Your social struggles will follow you wherever you go. Okay. So do I recommend looking into a smaller environment private school just for that? No, because it will be the same wherever he is. Where I find that the smaller environment can sometimes be helpful is, you know, if, if this persists into high school, but, but it's, it's way too early to make any kind of projections about that. What I would suggest for you guys is not to be thinking about middle school right now, but focus on what can we be doing now? Okay. To, to help build these skills, because the, the big what if here is we don't know what his developmental trajectory is going to be. Okay. So he could mature quickly and we could see a lot of growth in this area, you know, or he may not. And, and I think, you know, I'm just being realistic. Yeah. I think it's, it's a little premature to be thinking about middle school, just knowing that we don't know what the things are going to look like in a year from now. Yeah. You know, now I will be realistic with you guys and tell you, you know, I have a saying that fifth grade, particularly the second half of fifth grade is when things start to go south socially often for, for kids with ADHD, because social expectations go up in, in fifth grade, you know, kids are more oriented towards middle school, being part of a, you know, same gender peer group tends to become more important. So yeah, kids do tend to struggle more, you know, towards the end of fifth grade. But again, no matter what school he's at, that's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I guess my question is, you know, we want to try to, you know, obviously what we want to focus on that today, you know, that's very important to us. But we also want to try to do as much as we can, you know, for, for that kind of support, you know, so, you know, we've, you know, heard about social groups and, you know, we've tried to sign off for activities that accentuate his strengths, you know, environments that are really positive and supportive. He seems to be really malleable right now. My husband introduced the concept of with the social pyramid from, from one of your courses that he soaked it up like, wow. So I, you know, the moments where he has no resistance to input are few and far between sometimes. So, so for some reason I caught him in a, in a, in a very receptive mood and he soaked it up and ran with it. You know, he understood that, you know, having friends over the house really meant that he's closer with them. So, so yeah, so that, that was really successful. But we want to, we want to build off that we want to keep putting him in positions to learn and, you know, not being in school with him is a little difficult, you know, to kind of pinpoint, you know, those cringey moments. And so, so what do you suggest we do, you know, kind of carrying the outside of school stuff and what, what can we do for him to, to help a scaffold better, you know, better, a better social future for him? Oh, it's an excellent question. Here's, here's the first thing. There is no evidence. Well, I mean, let me say it this way. The evidence shows that social skills groups are completely useless for kids with ADHD. If you go to the website, effectivechildtherapy.org and type in ADHD, you'll see it's tier number five. It's has tested and does not work social skills groups. The reason social skills groups are useless is because kids with ADHD need to learn in the moment, right? We need to address things in the moment and do that repeatedly. A social skills group is an artificial environment that in no way resembles what, you know, peer interaction looks like organically, because there's an adult there who's controlling things and prompting, you know, and, and on top of that, if you want me to be really blunt, most social skills groups are a very nice lady teaching, you know, a group of boys how to communicate like middle age women. Okay. They're, they're learning overly formal etiquette and in no way resembles the way boys, you know, you know, communicate with each other or I'm probably girls for that matter as well. Yeah. So, so you don't have to worry about social skills groups. So here are the things I suggest. Number one, tell me, is he involved in any activities right now, you know, either in school, outside of school? Yes, outside of school. Okay. And what's he doing now? He has a theater and he has like a ninja course for perfect athletic children. Great. I love that. Okay. Looky as well. Perfect. I love both of them. Okay, good. And tell me a little more, you know, about right now, you know, if he would reach out to someone to, you know, invite them over to do something with them or other kids tend to be receptive. Do they say no? Like, give me a little more of what it looks like currently in those extra trigger activities? No, no, no, I'm sorry, just in general, like, if he reached out to a classmate or something, like, I just want to get more of a sense of, you know, what his his social interactions outside of school look like right now. So, so they're very video game based. Okay. So he's got a couple of friends who in school, who after I showed him the pyramid, he took the initiative to, you know, create the at home, you know, play date. And the other kid was receptive and they're both really interested in the same video game. So, so that was really the fuel that that has kind of brought that on. And they mostly will play video games or watch a movie together. Okay. And then the things that he's involved with outside of school, he doesn't everybody seems to really love him. He's a, you know, he's a character, but no, he's not he doesn't have any like friendships, like where they'll sit together or they'll come home after the class or. Yeah. And I just want to put in context for you guys, you know, it's harder to make friends when you're at an activity that you go to once a week or so. I do find that theater tends to be better or more conducive to this because, you know, you maybe not at his age, but, you know, with theater kids tend to spend a lot more time together and a lot more on structure time. So I, that's, you know, an activity I recommend a lot, you know, with, and here's, here's the other thing we have to keep in mind is a lot of people are okay with their kids spending all their time on screens. And a lot of people are not pushing their time, their kids to spend time with other kids outside of screens, you know, so I just want to frame this as also a cultural issue, right? Not, not, or a societal issue, I should say, not just, you know, something that's specific, you know, to him, okay, because we're dealing with resistance with this in general. Okay. So in terms of what you can be doing, I'm sorry, let me go back and mention one other thing. One of the things I often find with parents when their kids are struggling socially or the social piece has been difficult for them is they, they want to find what they perceive will be a more nurturing environment where the teachers will be trained in this and be able to guide the kids and teach them. And I have to be honest with you guys, I've really never seen that for the most part. Very, very rare, you know, situations. And there's a few reasons why teachers get no training in this kind of the standard model for when kids struggle socially is still to put them in these social skills groups, despite the fact that the evidence is it contradicts it, but people don't know that. And the other thing is if we think about, you know, when he goes out for recess at school, who is there to help him? Nobody. Right? Why? Because, because we don't have school set up to support kids socially, right? We have school set up to contain kids in a nice little social skills group with, you know, a nice lady prompting them to say, you know, ask him what his hobbies are or compliment him. Right? But, but we're at the point of performance, which is where ADHD kids learn schools are not set up for that. And that in my experience includes special ed schools, like the one I work at. So how can we catch him in the moment, you know, to point out those, you know, cringey things and, you know, like without being, you know, helicoptery and too involved, you know, and for example, like a play date. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, I don't get the sense that you guys are being helicoptery at all. I think what needs to happen is, you know, whether he's at an activity or, you know, if, if somebody's over that you're at least within ear shot and, and if necessary, you pull him aside and help him to understand, you know, the other kids thoughts in that moment. And, and that's really the most effective thing you can do. What would make this even more effective is if you, you know, shared with his teacher or teacher is kind of what you're trying to work on and share the language with them. So what I always tell people is, you know, feel, feel free to kind of say, you know, hey, you know, we're working on, you know, helping him understand how he's coming across the others. So, you know, if you can tell him, you know, both when, when he's doing things that would endear him to other kids, but also point out to him when, when he's not, right? Cause we don't want to just focus on the negative. We want him to understand also what he's doing, you know, a good job with. And the reason why I'm saying you have to discuss this with the teachers is because teachers are very hesitant to do this. One, because teachers tend to be scared of parents. And two, like I mentioned, they just don't have training in this. So the more there is consistent language and they're, the more there is kind of helping him at the point of performance, so to speak, that is inevitably what is going to help him improve with this. And that's really all it comes down to is, is, is those things and, and keeping him involved in activities, you know? Yeah. I want to be a little bit more specific about what, what, what an initiated are wanting to call you is that we want, we had really high hopes to send both our kids to a specific school. And we had no doubt that it would be fun and it was a great change for them for a million reasons. And then they rejected him. And we were really caught off guard. And it kind of felt like we did not realize that he was so bad that he would lose opportunities because of his. So what happened, they had a two kids assigned to him for like a trial day. And he walked away from those two kids. And he did his own thing. And I'm not sure what triggered them to say like, Oh, this kid is not going to be right for this school. But I think we're questioning right now whether to push that and to try to say, Hey, he can do this and, or do we look for a different school? How did we do something to not like, you know, that what's the phrase? Front-loading. Yeah, we didn't front load like you'd need to be friends with these kids in order to get accepted here. Let me, let me reframe this for you. I don't think this is a matter of so bad. And, and if anything, I would say this was a blessing in disguise, because what that tells you guys is the school is saying, look, we don't know how to work with this. And I would rather they do that than say, Oh, yeah, we work with lots of kids with ADHD, because I cannot tell you how many times I've heard schools say that. And then, and then after, you know, a few months, they say, Oh, well, this isn't really working out. Sorry. You know, I've seen that with schools. I've seen that with camps a million times. So, so yes, that was instinct. But when it settled in, I was like, Wait a minute, like he really is awesome. I don't know what you think of him. But I think you would in here. And, and, and, and let me ask you guys this, okay, if I, if I were nine, and I was visiting a school and I, you know, had a, you know, I was shadowing somebody for the day. And then I saw an interesting activity over there, or I was gravitating towards another kid who I seem like I connected with ADHD or not, I'm going to go check out other things, right? Like that, that to me is, is okay. And if they were expecting, you know, 100% compliance with a nine year old to have him next to another kid the whole day, okay, some kids can do that. I wouldn't, you know, so I do not see this as a negative reflection of him whatsoever, what you described. So you're telling us this school sucks. I'm not saying this school sucks. I'm saying the school did you guys a tremendous service by saying, right, this is not within our skill set to deal with this. Should we push it knowing that we don't need them to have this skill set? And this is what we wanted for him? I would take their reaction as very telling. Well, any school that had the opportunity to accept or deny would be like, Oh, your kid is not trying to be friends with the other kids like no, only public schools don't have the luxury of doing that. Well, no, private schools don't have the luxury of doing that when their numbers are down. So one thing you guys have to understand with private schools, a private school is a business first, and it's a school second, okay. And their admission criteria varies every year, depending on what their enrollment is and what they need. Okay. So in a year that maybe their enrollment was way down, they would have been more tolerant of this. Okay. But do I think I don't care what we need. I want what I want for him. Of course, sure. Right. And that's, you know, why you're doing this. But no, I would not go back to them because I think that that was telling, you know, their response to that. And look, I imagine, you know, he's going to do his own thing sometimes because that's hard of having ADHD. Well, you know, and if they're expecting 100% compliance all the time, like, sorry, that's, you know, yeah. All right. So what are we look, I mean, I know we talked about this before, but is it a Waldorf? Is it an outdoors all the time school? Is it, which isn't us? I don't know how I would like not give him any TV at all. And like a school like that, like what? Right. Well, let me ask you guys this. What, what is the ultimate goal here with moving him to a different school? Like what, what are you hoping that he will gain? I'm out of the middle school because from what we understand, it's not a good, it's not a good to school. Okay. So I'm just going to share the experience with other families. This is not a personal opinion. Most families I've spoken with who have gone to a Waldorf model, it's been disastrous. Again, that's, that's just what, what I've heard from other families, you know, it's not, not my opinion. I've never been to a Waldorf school. I, you know, there is one when, you know, there's one in Philadelphia and, you know, when I asked my son psychiatrist about it, she was like, absolutely not, you know, so not something I would recommend on the lack of structure and the self-directed learning tends to not work well for kids with executive function challenges. What are the other options? Like if you can just, but don't say the name, just kind of give me like kind of what you're, you know, what you're drawn to about them. I mean, we put all our eggs into that one basket that we're really disappointed about. Right. And outside of that would be the Waldorf, the public and a few other academically driven schools or special needs schools. Right. Which we're a little concerned about too, because he want to be, you know, kind of the odd man out in a class of five where they're, you know, severely autistic. Well, they, they likely would not take him into a school like that. So here's, here's, here's what I think. I think you guys need to, you know, as, as sounds like you've been doing, go see different schools, get, just get a feel for it from the tour. Okay. And, and then you want to be really transparent with, with them. Okay. And, and just say, you know, look, we just want you to be honest. Is this something that you feel that you can handle or not? And, and, and I think transparency is, is the best policy. But, but you might not even have to get to that point because you might go to a school and you, and you guys might say to each other, you know what, I don't see him here. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. We were very transparent initially. And we're actually questioning who we should have been because if we didn't say that much about Kobe, would he have seemed more mainstream to them? Like, were they looking out for red flags because of the things we said to them? Yeah. I mean, we, we approached it maybe think, I mean, this is, you know, in hindsight, maybe a little too worrisome, but we, we were thinking maybe, you know, academically, he's, he's fine for, you know, is that age, but socially, he's a little behind. Maybe this is an opportunity to change schools and, you know, I mean, keep him in a, in a, in a lower grade. But we've since abandoned that, you know, talking to him, he's not interested in that. And yeah. So, so yeah. So that was our conversation with the school initially, which might have raised some, some flags for them. But, but yeah, I think, I think your, you know, your points are, are taken, you know, that the school really needs to express that they can handle everything, you know, that comes with, with Kobe, right, you know, for us to feel comfortable sending him there. And I don't think you guys did anything wrong with being transparent with, with them. And, you know, and, and, you know, look, who knows if they were looking for things, but again, at the end of the day, you don't want him to be somewhere that is, is not going to set him up for success. And what they were telling you is we can't set him up for success. So thank you for that. Moving on. Yeah. That's, you know, that's my feeling. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I think you guys are going to have to do some, some looking around. Look, I'm sure near you, there are, you know, like, like a school, like I worked at, you know, that focus on kids with learning differences. The question becomes, and here's really the question, okay, does what they offer, or let me say it this way, does what they deliver warrant the price tag? I can tell you, and I could get in trouble for saying this, all right, for the, the schools in my area, it is really hard for me to justify the price tag for any of them for the LD schools. I can justify the price tag for them for kids with an in a 10 of profile of ADHD, or for kids with significant learning differences, it would really be difficult for me to justify the price tag for the things that, you know, that you guys brought up, because I know that this is out of their wheelhouse, even though, you know, they, they market to the ADHD world, even though, you know, they, they do their social thinking curriculum and in school, again, I know their limitations because I've been in this world for so long. So yeah, I would have a hard time justifying the price tag. I hear you also saying that teachers are not equipped for ADHD, and it's going to be at every school then, like, is what there, there will be no school that's equipped to respond to him. So I guess it is on us to say, this is where we want him, and then we're going to have to figure out the social part of it. I will say there are schools that are better equipped, and there are teachers who are better equipped. What, what makes a better, better equipped, like, yeah, okay. Well, what would make a school better equipped is that they're going to be more tolerant, number one. Number two, they, they have more of, and, you know, maybe not perfect, maybe not the level of sophistication I would want, but they're going to have a level of understanding of executive functioning. You know, they're going to know how to, you know, you know, work a little more with, with kids who might struggle socially. So, so yes, there are nuanced differences between them. But, but really, when I think about it at the end of the day, that comes down to the teachers, it doesn't come overall to the school culture really, in my experience. Yeah. Yeah, I guess I know we're, we're wrapping up soon. But my wife, we have a couple of dogs, and we thought that that's a really good opportunity, you know, to kind of teach, you know, reading a little bit of, of, you know, kind of cringey of the way, you know, one of our dogs is very expressive when Kobe, you know, inappropriately grabs her or whatever. Yeah. But have you used that as a tool? Have you seen that as something that can be effective? I like the idea in theory, because I'm a dog person, but no, I don't think it's effective. I mean, he's always asking me like, why doesn't she come when I say come and she comes to you when you say come. And I'm thinking like, okay, I walk her, I feed her. Like, is there behaviors that you could, you know, front load and to the dog? Well, look, you can, you can frame that as reciprocity and relationships, you know, I'm doing things for her. And this is what I get in exchange in every relationship, right? We have to give some and we take some, you know, and if we take more than we give, then somebody might not want to, they're not going to be as motivated to be around us. Right. So there is a learning piece there. But, but in terms of, I mean, yeah, in terms of helping them, you know, develop perspective, taking skills, yeah, it's just not going to be the same. Yeah. Although I love the idea, I wish it could work. And just in regards to resistance to input, when he goes, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, like, what, I know, I know what you're going to say. I know you're going to say, yeah, don't tell me what I would say, what I would say is just stay on message. Don't, don't respond to that. Because even if he's sick of hearing it, he is still internalizing the message. Okay. And again, you, you know, remember, this is how ADHD kids learn, they learn in the moment. And this is why, you know, therapy does not work for kids with ADHD, because you cannot take something that you learned two weeks ago and apply it in the moment, you know, two weeks later, you know. So, and that's why even if he doesn't like it, it's, it's important that you stay on message with that. Do I have time for one more thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. In regards to the social skills group, if there's a scenario where the teacher to understands the concepts of ADHD and an executive functioning and all these things, and he's in a social circle of 10 kids, his peer group, and she gets, you know, she has the right, if we ask the right questions, and she's like, okay, I let them play and I get involved where necessary. Like if she's saying all the right things, could that potentially be a good social group? Here's what I would say. If, if, if the person is really letting them play without hovering over them, and with, without kind of, you know, directing the play, or prompting them to, you know, what, what to say, then I would say yes. So, so basically, I mean, what you're describing is like the model that I do in my groups and my camp, right, which is to hang back, you know, I mean, to teach something and then hang back and only address things, you know, as, as needed. So if you can find somebody who does that, and to be, you know, you might be able to where, where, where you guys are, I mean, because there's a pretty good infrastructure there, but you really have to like do your homework and find that. Yeah. And so, so, yeah, I mean, that could, that could, I'm not going to say it's, it's going to make a significant change like life changing, but it could be helpful. Yeah. Okay. And in looking for school, is there a Google keyword I could use for the right school friend? Like, is that a STEM school? Is it an at ASTRA school? I would type in, you know, school, excuse me, private schools for students with learning differences. I really, I really love how you package everything. We discovered you on YouTube. And I don't think we would have diagnosed him if I hadn't discovered your videos. Well, thank you. Because he's able to sit in the classroom, he's able to learn and he's excelling in school, everything that you talk about from the vortex arguments cycle, you know, to the social stuff. I don't think we would have reached this point where we are now without having discovered your videos. So we really, really are very, very appreciative. And your courses are great and really empowering us. So really, thank you, Ryan. We really appreciate it. Thank you. That means a lot to me. Thank you. My husband's a very big fan. I think he would rather have lunch with you than with the New Yorker. Thank you. Thanks. One last thing I want to ask you guys about, did you ever try Scouts with him? No, that idea did come up, but that's interesting. Yeah. Okay. The reason why I'm asking this is, and I've said this in, you know, videos or in other things, I have seen Scouts do more for kids socially than any social skills group in existence. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And theater also, by the way. Yeah. Both of them. Yeah. So just something to keep in the back of your head. If you guys, you know, if you want to send me anything like to look at, if you're, you know, looking at like some kind of activity or a school or something, I'm always happy to take a look at a website and I can kind of tell you what questions I would ask them. Okay. You know, but, but at the end of the day, you're going to get the best picture of a school by going and visiting. All right. Really good meeting you. Nice. Thank you so much. So much. Thanks. Anytime. Take care. Thanks for listening. To learn more about Mike's practice, Grow Now ADHD, please visit his website, grownowadhd.com. To learn about the services Ryan provides, please visit adhddude.com. You can find Mike on Instagram at grownowadhd and Ryan on the ADHD Dude YouTube channel. We'd love to hear your feedback or questions. So feel free to contact us at the ADHD Parenting Podcast at gmail.com. The ADHD Parenting Podcast and content posted by Grow Now ADHD or ADHD Dude are presented solely for general information and educational purposes. Our goal is to provide valuable insights and knowledge, not to replace professional services. Mike and Ryan cannot provide clinical consultation or free advice through social media or other forms of communication. The information on this podcast is not a substitute for professional advice. If you or your child have any medical or mental health concerns, please consult your healthcare professionals.