Have we found Mark’s film of the year already?

Hey Mark, you know I'm really massive techie, right?

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No.

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If you saw me at my local coffee shop in showbiz North London, you'd probably mistake me for Neo from the Matrix. Without the illegal hacking or sunglasses indoors, obviously.

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What are you talking about? You're having some sort of breakdown? Do you actually even own a computer?

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What I'm talking about, I'm on it now. Talking to you is the transformation my web browsing has been through. Now that I've got NORDVPN on all my devices, I use NORDVPN to keep my online activity safe with encryption, threat protection and dark web alerts to guard against hackers and to secure public WI fi.

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And Instagram will continue adding built in

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experiences and learn more about teen accounts and Instagram's ongoing work to protect teens online@instagram.com teenaccounts.

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Before we begin, a quick reminder that you can become a Vanguardista and get

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There's never been a better time to become a Vanguardista. Free offer now available wherever you get your podcasts and if you're already a Vanguardista, we salute you. I don't like technology and I don't like progress. These are the two defining factors for my particular day today.

1:58

Do you want to explain specifically to the listeners what it is about technology in particular and progress in general that has been narking you this morning?

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Those who the paymasters have decided that we have to improve the video content of this podcast is, you know, in general a good thing. You need something to look as crisp and gorgeous.

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Do you? Do you though?

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Not really. No blurry lens, please So I now have a camera installed here next to my laptop, which knows where I am so that I'm looking at you.

2:55

Right. Yeah.

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But if I, if I move off to my right.

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Your camera follows you.

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The camera follows me and I can't escape it. If I, if I go down here, it follows me. It's like it, it knows where I. It's been programmed so that it follows me everywhere. It's like I just need to run away from, from this room. Which obviously wouldn't make a very good podcast. But I.

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It's the camera equivalent of the Mona Lisa whose eyes follow you around. Simon is now putting on a nice wide shut mask.

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Yes. This is how I intend to continue on the show so that no one knows where I am.

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Well, I should point out that we both have the same camera. And Josh came. Yeah. Does all the sort of clever stuff. Came around here and went into the, you know, and disabled my follow mark around the room function. So my camera, I can do this. And it's just, it's staying absolutely still because I've killed it.

3:49

Well, I need to, I need that function. Yeah. Because, you know, if I, if I go over here, you can see all the shelving that's just arrived, which you shouldn't normally, normally be able to see. I can't fool it. It knows where I am and life has become like this, this camp. I need to. Even if I flip it so that it's looking at the ceiling, it'll just track down until it finds me again.

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I'm going to make you a little bit louder in my headphones. Okay. Because I can do that.

4:32

You mean you haven't got a, you haven't got a machine that does that automatically for you?

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No.

4:40

I'm sure you can find that.

4:40

No. So. What.

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Welcome to the podcast.

4:43

Oh, you've. So we finished the technical discussion.

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Now this is the, this is, this is now the bonhomie section. How are you, Mark?

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I'm fine, actually, I'm. Now that I've done the thing in order to make you louder, the only way I can do it on this, this is technology again, is I have to turn me down and then I have to press a button and then I have to bring everything else up.

4:51

Okay.

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Do you remember when you can't even

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see the T shirt that I'm wearing, can you? Because of the, the angle which has been selected by the man.

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Can you stand up? Is it, is it a brand new floozies?

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No, no.

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As you stand up, it follows you up. It Follows your head, right? So literally you stand up. The logo brief comes. So it says.

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It just says minimal.

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Minimal. It says, very good.

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And I thought, mark, I like that. I'll wear it on the podcast. It's very good. And. And because of our computer overlords, it's decided that you're not allowed to see what I'm.

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It's just really hilarious if you're listening to this, not watching it. What happened was Simon, the logo on his chest. So he stood up so that the logo would be in front of the camera. But because the camera is fixated on his face like a dog, it just looked up.

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So I do, you know, I'm going to disable it. I'm going to put a scarf over it. There you go.

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There we go.

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Suck that. Okay, now I can't be seen. Okay. The computer overlord is going to go crazy at this point, isn't it?

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It's like putting a cloth over the birdcage. Okay, all right.

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It's gonna find me in the end. There you go.

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Anyway, you could just sellotape it in place. You could literally just put a bit of sellotape over it. So even if its robot brain wants to move, it can't because it's being sellotaped in place.

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I'm just waiting. Oh, God, it's now looking at the ceiling. Ha. Look at that.

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You've defeated it.

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I have now. It doesn't want to look anywhere else anyway.

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Pointless.

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What's the point of this kind of technology? It's a. It's a. This is radio, isn't it? It's a sound. It's a podcast thing. Who cares what we look like? What's happening on the show? Later when we talk in radio terms about stuff that people can see with their eyes.

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We have some majestic reviews. We have Rose of Nevada, which I've been talking about for a long time, which is the new film by Mark Jenkins. We have Michael, which is the long awaited and much debated Michael Jackson. I don't know if you can actually call it a biopic, but we'll get to that. And Half man, which is the new TV series for which we have our

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very special guest who is actor, writer and comedian Richard Gad, the guy who brought you baby reindeer to much acclaim and lots of attention. He has a new series for the BBC and it's called Half man and we'll be talking about that. Mark has seen the whole thing and I've seen half of it. And you can hear Richard Gad talking to us later.

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Can we just address the elephant in the room, which is that when you said half man, at least half of our audience went half biscuit.

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Yes. And there is a point in the interview where I should have made that point, but I thought Richard might crumble at that point and say, yes, you're right, I should never have made it. And whoever came up with this idea was completely correct.

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Yes.

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By the way, on that. On the Michael subject, there was a review in the Times.

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All right. I haven't seen it.

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Which used more curse words than I've ever seen in a review.

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Oh, really?

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All of them involving excrement? Yes.

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So, wow.

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Films in take two, Mark, Exit eight,

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which is a really kind of interesting psychological horror thriller based on a video game. And back in cinemas, reissued Fight Club is punching its way back onto your screens.

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Also in take two, you'll get even more of the good stuff, including five question Film Club.

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Three questions, you, Majesty.

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Available for you on Patreon are intros to Cold War, the Silence of the Lambs, Heathers and Withnail and I, amongst many others. So head on over to Patreon if. If you'd like to join the club. Plus you get all the other top quality content ad free. I'd say it to the camera there. I'm saying it to the camera ad free. There'll be question semesters in which Mark and I answer top questions, including which film tropes most annoy you or even take you out of the film that you're watching.

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Which is.

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Which is a very good question. Now, I have to say, because of the high quality of. Of our listeners, something that we've discussed many times, there are at least two emails in our takes today that I don't really understand.

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Okay.

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And here, here is the first one.

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Right.

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We have been inundated with existential emails following Mark's review and our discussion of Letranger the Stranger. And while we accept the existence of these emails, we struggle to find meaning in them. For example, Robin Cambridge.

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Okay, I'll show it to you.

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Okay. Wowzer Cambridge. Not a surprise.

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Shall we mark it and send it back to him?

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Dear Sisyphus. And also Sisyphus. So I'm already thinking. Okay, I really enjoyed your thought provoking review of Francois Ozon's Letranger and the wider dialogue surrounding it. However, I did want to put a word in for existentialists, of course, if I may. And that is never going to be a paragraph or even two paragraphs, is it? No, it isn't.

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No.

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Okay, so I might Bail out of this.

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Okay.

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At some stage, depending on your body language.

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Right. Strap in, everyone.

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Though Sartre de Beauvoir, Camus and other contributors to the loosely speaking existentialist tradition grappled with the absurdity and meaninglessness of existence, they didn't actually advocate for the at it for an attitude of callow indifference in light of this, something which is displayed in the film. Rather, Sartre emphasized, in a world without God to give our lives inherent meaning. Our choices shape our nature, and we are solely responsible for them. His political engagement can be seen as an extension of his wider philosophy, informed by his time with the French Resistance members whose willingness to resist suffering and torture for a just cause was a model of a life lived authentically. Meanwhile, Simone.

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Yeah, it was. And I acknowledged that in the review when I talked.

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Meanwhile, Simone de Beauvoir made enormous contributions to 20th century thought with 1949's the Second Sex, milestone in the development of feminism. Camus was also deeply politically engaged and explicitly rejected despair in books like the Myth of Sisyphus, where, spoiler alert, he concluded that even Sisyphus, condemned to point pointlessly roll a rock up a hill for all eternity, might find a measure of contentment in the task. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the image of these thinkers as resembling those nihilists in the Big Lebowski who believe in nothing, come from a historic opposition between the European and Anglophone schools of philosophy. Are you aware of this, Mark?

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Yes.

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Okay. The latter caricatures the former as a gaggle of smug, sharply dressed socialites in sunglasses making vague statements about the nature of being, of being, between puffs on their galois, while Anglophone philosophers are portrayed as aging, tweed jacketed dons arguing about whether tables exist from the comfort of their armchairs. As someone with a little experience of academic philosophy, I have to concede that the bit about debating furniture is true. It comes up so, so much. I don't know why, but the rest is more complicated and worth engaging with. Up with. Accept that. And that's the end. Up with accepting that furniture probably exists, and down with indifference in the face of tyranny and oppression. Well, I get that bit anyway.

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I mean, I thought that was actually.

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Yeah, I know, but of the Anglophone. They all sound like tossers. That's the point.

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You know, the. The.

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The Europeans, smug, sharply dressed socialites in sunglasses talking about the nature of being. Of being or being. Someone discussing whether a table exists. We can do without that.

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Well, anyway, I should say two things. I was at college and in a Band with Andrew Hussey now Andrew Hussey, OBE of the Sorbonne and, you know, great intellectual thought. And Andrew was very, very funny on the.

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On.

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On the. I mean, you know, what he didn't know about any of this stuff wasn't worth knowing. But I remember repeating to him a joke which Alexei Sayle said at the beginning of the comic strip, when the comic strip was at the. Upstairs at the Paul Raymond Review Bar. And the joke went like this. I met that John Paul Sartre. He was so stupid, he didn't know he existed. I proved he existed. I nutted him. I argued empirically. Now, I'd like to be clear that in our review we did say that in terms of such existentialism because we talked about, you know, the. The move towards Marxism and the role of materialist philosophy. The point was in terms of discussing Letranger, the character in Le Tranger that you were talking about as the guy who was disaffected removed. He is that character. That is not existentialism en masse. He is that character and that's what we were talking about. But I have to say I've had a whale of a time going below the line on YouTube with the comments which begin, oh, if I could just. Oh, these people don't understand existential change. So that letter that you just read out was actually very smart and funny. Money and on the money. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Rob.

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But anyone who seriously wants to discuss whether a table exists or not, you know, the world has quite a few issues at the moment. Discussing whether a piece of furniture is in existence or not is not really at the cutting edge. Staying on the. The big question. Ian Hargreaves in Bath. In last week's Take one, Simon was plagued by a wood chipper. Mark asked, how much wood can a wood chipper chip? If a wood chipper could chip wood, which is of course irrelevant, is a reference to the woodchuck song from 1902.

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Correct.

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Which is. And also this Werner Herzog 1976 film with the same title. Mark said there was no answer to this important question. He might have said that because the answer is a challenging tongue twister. Just as much wood as a wood chipper would chip. If a wood chipper could chip wood. Amaze, amaze, amaze.

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That's very good.

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Have you seen How Much Wood would a Woodchuck by Werner Herzog in 1976?

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I don't believe I have. No. No, I don't think I have.

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And a woodchuck is a. Is a groundhog. Which I didn't know until I looked it all up.

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Oh, no, I didn't know that.

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So it's a reference. So it's just a colloquial term for a groundhog.

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There we go.

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Anyway, I'm glad we've sorted both those issues. Yes, correspondence@codemayer.com introduce us to a film of interest, please.

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Or possibly the film of interest, because I've been talking about this since last year.

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Rose, don't give away your movie of the week already because.

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But you know, Simon, I've already.

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Suspense.

15:59

Okay, fine.

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It could. It could be Michael.

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Okay, well, after all those cussing words in the Times, which I haven't seen, but I will check out afterwards. Okay, so this is the new film from Mark Jenkin, you know, Cornish cinematic bard behind Bait and Ennis Main, both of which I loved. Now, I think both of those films were brilliant, although neither of them had mainstream and inverted commas appeal. This Rosa Nevada, I think, does not least because I think it has an emotional, an accessible emotional edge that I think has the potential to prove universal. So the story opens in a now rather desolate Cornish fishing village. George Mackay's character lives there with partner and child. The roof of their porch is leaking. The local businesses are boarded up. There's a food bank on the corner. Clearly the village has declined, died even. Then in the harbor, a boat appears. A boat that disappeared three decades ago, like the Event Horizon returning in Event Horizon. Strange thing is that people don't seem that surprised. They sort of expected the boat to come back. Indeed, they promptly set about crewing it so it can go out fishing. And the crew will include George Mackay's character and new arrival, played by Callum Turner. They are taught the trade, they learn the ropes, literally learning the ropes of fishing. And they head out to sea. But when they come back, they don't come back to the place they left from the place. They do, but the time is completely different. They have gone back to the time that the boat disappeared. The village is thriving. You know, it's buzzing by comparison with the version of it that we just saw. The pub is open and. And full of life. The post offices are going concern. Most importantly, the fishing trade is providing a lifeblood for it. When they arrive at the harbor, everyone comes down to help them unload the fish. And so they're back in the past from which the boat disappeared. The film, as with all of Mark Jenkins work, is made in his distinctive style. So it's shot silent on a clockwork camera with all the sound and dialogue created and post synced afterwards. Here is a clip.

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Yeah. Can't take no more home to mother back to that boozer.

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Can't wait. Can't wait to be home again.

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I can't wait to be back out again. Don't know about that.

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Only one thing worse than being at sea.

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Boy, anyhow. Oh, yeah. Not being a sea.

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I think that clip works because you can hear how much work the sound is doing. I said everything is post sync with him. So everything, all the dialogue, all the sound effects, all the noise of the boat is all constructed after the shoot. And it's such a big part of the film. It's amazing how immersive the experience is. I mean, this. I was on set for one day and, you know, there's Mark holding this handheld clockwork camera and it captures images that put you right there on the boat. And it's thanks in no small part also to that sound. I mean, this is a fishing boat that reminds you that fishing is one of the most dangerous professions that there is. This is a world, a world of pulleys and ropes and engines and cranking chains and creeping, creaking timbers. And, you know, it's. This is a. This is a brutal world, for all its beauty. But the wider drama having sort of brilliantly kind of conjured this fishing milieu, which I think it just does so terrifically. The wider drama is about these two time periods, the past and the near present. Characters who are kind of broken and lost in one time frame, being more connected and vibrant in the other. And the two central characters react very differently. George Mackay's character just wants to get back. Wants to get back to his own time. He's bewildered, he's horrified by what's happening. Indeed, when he first gets on the boat, he finds a message scratched on it which says, get off the boat. Which you suspect that maybe he has written to himself. Callum Turner's character, on the other hand, seems to fit right in.

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He.

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There's a. There's a relationship that he appears to be in. He's.

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He's. It's.

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It's as if he stepped into another man's shoes. And I think the thing that this is. I mean, this is a really great praise for it. I was thinking when I was watching it of the amazing Mr. Blunden, which is. I don't. Have you seen the amazing Mr. Blunden?

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See, I don't think so.

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So really, really wonderful film from the 1970s. It's based on a novel, the Ghost, by Antonia Barber, who incidentally lived down here in Mousel in Cornwall, wrote the Mousel cat. But that's a world in which. That's a story in which two worlds coexist in which there is the present world and there is the world of the past and their characters are ghosts in each other's stories. And it's a story about having to go back into the past to change something, to save the future from itself. And in the case of this, there is a sort of redemptive thing going on about community, about the importance of community, about what it meant when this particular trade was thriving and how a village lived and then became something else. And this somehow this looping back into the past. It's almost as if the sea, the waves, the boat is bringing people back because there's something that needs to be fixed in the past. And now, as with all of Mark Jenkins previous films, you have to pay close attention to detail. You know, it's, it's all. There's no, there's no one sitting around explaining the plot to you. You have to notice, for example, that the time that the ship, the boat has its nameplate, Rose of Nevada on it and the times that it doesn't tells you about which time period you're in. But no one's ever going to explain the plot to you. But I think that where this really, I mean, this. It's a Mark Jenkins film from beginning to end. Nobody makes movies like he does. But I think that what this has is a brilliantly constructed time traveling narrative that has emotional heft. I mean, I think this is eerie. I think it's heartbreaking. I mean, there is a really heartbreaking. Two heartbreaking love stories going on in it that I think will. Will connect with a much wider audience than. I mean, I said, when I was talking about last year, I said, you know, a Cornish modern classic, eerie heartbre. And I stand by that. I think that's on the poster. And it's also buoyed up by great performances, not just from the two leads, but also from regulars like Ed Roe. There's an all but unrecognizable appearance by Mary Woodvine in one of the stories in which I was. I mean, I, you know, I know Marc Jenkin, I know Mary Woodvine. I was on set one day in which she was playing one of the characters and I didn't even recognize that it was her. This is my favorite film of the year so far and I would be really, really surprised if it get surpassed. I've seen it twice now and both Times. It just knocked me for six. I think it's wonderful.

20:55

Is Nevada relevant or is it just the name of.

23:35

It's the name of the boat. It's the name of the boat. But, but, but here's what I would say. There is nothing in any Mark Jenkins film that isn't relevant. And I would make a comparison with David lynch, which is that thing about we must pay close attention when you make films like this. There is nothing that is in there by accident. But it's. But it's also. There is nothing in there to be explained definitively.

23:38

Okay, so the name of the boat is relevant, but it's a film to find.

24:06

But it's. I think. But it's. Yeah, it's up to you.

24:11

So it might not be relevant.

24:14

That's not what I said.

24:16

I said it's up to me. Whether I decide.

24:18

It's up to you. What you, what you read into that.

24:21

Does it actually exist?

24:24

Does the boat exist? Yes. Yes.

24:26

Existentialist.

24:29

Oh, I see. Yes. It's not a piece of. Not a piece of furniture. Yes, it actually exists.

24:30

All right.

24:34

It actually exists.

24:34

Okay. And a big, big release. I mean.

24:35

Yeah, well, you rolled out everywhere, weirdly enough. So I. I got in touch with the bfi, so I got this.

24:38

You're like a producer on this film.

24:45

I thank you. So it said that it's opening in 124 screens, including View and Cineworld. So from. It's a BFI release. So for them, this is. This is a big flagship. This is their Star wars, basically.

24:47

Wow. Okay. Correspondence@codemayor.com Once you've seen Rose of Nevada. Please send us your reviews. Still to come after the break, Mark will be talking about Michael. You'll hear about Half man with our special guest, Richard Gad. Plus the Laughter Lift, where the jokes always reach the top floor.

25:03

Boom, boom.

25:21

Hey, Mark Kermod.

25:27

Yes, Simon Mayo.

25:28

When we first started our journey in Wizardtainment, did you worry that people might not listen or care about what we had to say?

25:29

I did. What if we made fools of ourselves?

25:36

Well, thankfully, it turns out people love it, specifically when we make fools of ourselves. So we needn't have worried.

25:39

That's good, because we're very good at that.

25:45

That said, wouldn't it have been great if there'd been something like Shopify to help us get started? Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, from household names like Heinz and Mattel to brands just getting started.

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It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify Today. Sign up for your one pound per month trial at shopify.co.uk take that's shopify.co.uk take Amazon presents Jeff versus taco truck salsa Whether it's verde roja or the orange one, for Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habanero. More like Habanero. Yes, save the everyday with Amazon. Okay, here comes the box office top 10 at number 15, California scheming, which

26:10

as I said, I think is an interesting dramatic retelling of a story that was told previously in a Jeannie Findlay documentary, the Great Hip Hop Scandal, which I think was great Hip Hop Hoax, pardon me, which I think is the superior work.

27:12

Number 14 is undertone, a really interesting

27:28

horror film, really stripped down, tiny location and all to do with the sound. The tagline for it was the scariest film you'll hear and I think I really enjoyed it.

27:32

It's number 25 in America. Ian McCauley says, Love the show is this is Undertone. The best film about Fergal Sharky that was never made very obviously, and Nick says, well, that was disappointing. After settling into a promising start and strong concept, I spent the majority of Undertones runtime trying not to doze off, leave, or heaven forbid, check my phone. When it picked up in the last five minutes, it was too little too late and all I could think of was aha, they're trying to do a Thai west but without the tension ratcheting Slow Burn bill to pay off effectiveness of that director's work such as X House of the Devil or the Terrifying the Innkeepers. All it all in all, it reminded me of my unfortunate experience with the Blair Witch Project, in that I found the characters, double Dutch, tilting camera work and supposed scary bits equal parts tedious and irritating and the film's lack of clear resolution nothing but immensely frustrating. But then I was in the minority on that classic, so maybe I'll be about this too. Bit of a missed opportunity if you ask me, because the core idea of podcast found footage horror was a great one, says Nick.

27:44

I mean, I, I think the fact that you, that you, you cite Blair Witch, which I think does relate to this and that you didn't like Blair Witch, which some people didn't, I think In a way that's, that's fine. I really did like Blair Witch and I really did like this. And I would just remind people if you weren't there when Blair Witch came out, it's very, very hard to remember just how alarming it was. I have a colleague friend now an actor, but was a film critic who was so traumatized by it when they saw it at Cannes. There is film of them outside the screening room afterwards in a state of almost total collapse, hyperventilating because they were so panicked by what they'd seen.

28:58

Do many critics become actors? I would have thought that's very unusual.

29:41

Yeah, no, I don't, I don't think it's that common of role. Quite a few critics go on to become filmmakers. As we were discussing before when we were talking about the whole Jean Luc Goddard thing and But. And Nouvelle Vogue the film is called. But. But I don't think it's that common. No.

29:45

Number 13, you, Me in Tuscany is number five in America. Joe in Yorkshire. Dear Wetshire, unbuttoned in one scene and missing in the next. Full time emailing. Maybe first time to make it onto the show. There were three people in my screening of you me in Tuscany. The first was my dad who fell asleep for half the film and got up and walked around the corridor outside for the other half. The second was myself who spent the whole film thinking that the endless spreads of gorgeous looking food would make me very ill with my IBS former Conservative lead, obviously. And the third was my 15 year old younger sister who smiled and laughed and was happy throughout. And at the end of the day, does anything else really matter? Kind regards, Joe in Yorkshire, small plastic brick collector and 12 time failee of my year five school swimming certificate.

30:04

Very good.

30:51

How can you fail? Wow. I mean, I suppose, Joe, you're fortunate to be alive. If you failed swimming certificate 12 times.

30:52

Should have got the.

31:01

I think you should have got the message after three or four.

31:03

Is that anyway when you have to do the thing about tying, tying a knot in your pajamas and then making like that, making a balloon out of them. And I always thought, but what happens if you, if you get thrown in the water and you're not in your pajamas?

31:05

Yes, Dan thought of that. Very smart. Anyway, you, me in Tuscany at number 13.

31:17

Yeah, I haven't seen it, so I can't, I can't contribute.

31:22

Okay. Number 10. We're rocking into the top 10.

31:26

Okay. This, I want to do this properly. So go on.

31:30

Number 10. Number nine in America is Booth Bangler.

31:33

No, no, you've jumped over number 12.

31:36

I have. Because that's what it says here. Okay. Number 12 is. Number 12 is Glenn Rothen.

31:39

Right now. Fine. So the last time you and I spoke, you were yet to speak to Brian Cox and you were yet to watch the movie. I.

31:45

Correct.

31:52

But then the interview went out, which I hadn't heard at the time. We did the review and I said,

31:52

and then I had seen the film and then I interviewed Brian Cox.

31:57

Fine. So then I reviewed the film. So now I want to know, now that you've seen the film, what did you think?

32:00

I was. I'd worked out a line. If Brian asked me what I thought of the film, I would say I was surprised how kind it was.

32:08

That's a good line.

32:17

That's.

32:20

That's a good line.

32:20

That's it. Really? Yes, I, you know, it was,

32:21

it

32:27

was lots of beautiful scenes and they're very, you know, watchable performances and a lot of whiskey was drunk and Brian's a very interesting man. That's what I thought.

32:28

And it's a very kind film and surprisingly kind. Yep.

32:44

Anything else to add to that?

32:50

Well, it's creaky, you know, it is creaky as heck, isn't it? It's absolutely schmaltzy, sentimental. You know, I mean, I quite liked it because I really like Brian Cox and I thought that he kind of has the right. It's just. It's not the film that you would expect from him because it's so saccharine.

32:51

Yeah, it's. But there, you know, there is a role for saccharine. Yeah, a lot of people are addicted to saccharine, so.

33:11

Absolutely is. Absolutely is.

33:19

So I'll stick with surprisingly kind.

33:21

Yeah, that's fine.

33:22

Okay. Okay, so there's hoppers at number 11. Yeah.

33:23

Which, you know, I kind of enjoyed. It was fun.

33:27

And number 10, as I mentioned, Booth Bangler.

33:29

So this wasn't screened before we went off. The title translates as Haunted Mansion. It's a Hindu language comedy horror film. If anyone's seen it, please send us a review.

33:32

Number eight is the BTS World Tour. Arirang in Goyang. Live viewing. This is a concert, not a film. BTS on an 85 day world tour. 23 countries celebrating the fact they've done their military service. And to heck with all that, let's carry on being pop stars. So they're doing their Elvis thing. Okay. So that's fine. Number seven is Time Hoppers the Silk Road.

33:44

Now, again, since we've been off for two weeks, there are three films in this section that I have won't have seen. So I haven't seen Time Hoppers the Silk Road. It is an animated story, four gifted children who stumble upon time travel and are thrust into an adventure along the Silk Road to save great scientists from an evil alchemy. I'm just reading the pots. Sorry about that.

34:04

Yep, okay, so if you've seen Time Hoppers, let us know. Magic Faraway Tree at number six.

34:21

I really enjoyed, and I was very surprised by how much I enjoyed it and. But I really thought it was charming, really properly charming.

34:26

James NAYLOR says Dear Sergeant angel and P.C. butterman. My family and I attended a cinema as we do once or twice a month, as there is just something special about seeing a film on the big screen rather than waiting for a streaming site to pick it up. We saw the Magic Faraway Tree. This is an exceptional children's film, full of magic, hope and togetherness.

34:34

Good.

34:53

My wife described it to a tee when leaving the cinema, saying, it's a wholesome family film when the world needs a wholesome family film. And is it interesting how wholesome becomes a kind of almost pejorative, really, but actually, no, it just means you can all go and see it and you can all enjoy it. You don't have to be nervous. It had some great, great actors and actresses in it, but the children stole the film, especially Billy Garson as Fran, whose charm and wit makes the film flow and makes the 110 minutes fly by. Both children and my wife said they hope there was a sequel, as there are four books and that should there be any, they'd be just as magnificent as this film.

34:53

Well, I, you know, I think it's been received well enough that there, there may well be. Like I said, I just, I thought it was really charming. I think you're absolutely right about wholesome. That's not a pejorative. It's absolutely wholesome.

35:29

Akira is at number five.

35:40

We discussed, if you listened to the show last week on take two, the question about why the live action Akira proved to be such a stumbling block. And the reason is, well, just look at the animated Akira and go, okay, do that live. Also, why would you. I mean, Akira is an astonishing piece of work. It's very, very edgy when it first came out, now back in cinemas in IMAX presentation and as mind blowing now as it ever was.

35:42

Number four in the uk, three in America is Lee Cronin's the Mummy.

36:13

Okay, so this is the other one that I haven't. I'm gonna catch up with this. This wasn't actually press screened anyway until really? No, it was Wednesday afternoon and it was gonna, you know, by that point we were well off by that point. It is a re imagining of the Mummy franchise. I did, I have to confess, have a couple of people come up to me and said have you seen it yet? And I said no. They said oh, you need to see it. I said why? They said lots of exorcist refere said in a good way. And they went no. There is a review from one critic that says absurdly watch checkingly overlong, tonally unsure and fatally not scary or the Exorcist with gauze. So I'm going to go and see that now.

36:17

All right, to be reviewed next week. Number three here, Number four over there is the drama Tabitha from Brighton. Yes, says dearest doctors, Tabitha from Brighton here. Long term listener, first time emailer and first time baby carrier writing about an amazing cinema experience I had recently in Glasgow. Having just attended a wedding in the Scottish Highlands, my husband and I were driving back for our late evening flight from Glasgow. My husband had been best man and was feeling more than a little worse for wear. Me being pregnant, on the other hand, was feeling smug and remarkably well rested. We had a few hours to kill before the flight and on a whim searched nearby cinemas. Six minute drive away from the airport we found the Showcase Cinema in Paisley showing the appropriately wedding themed the drama. Settling into what can only be described as fully reclining luxury beds. My husband him indoors, settled back for 40 wings and I got to enjoy 1 hour 45 minutes of this slightly off key unhinged dark comedy before making it back in perfect time for the flight. It was an extremely successful detour. I think Robert Pattinson in particular was perfectly cast as Zendaya's goony but charming English boyfriend. It's a difficult film to discuss without spoilers, particularly as the marketing has been so careful not to give anything away other than a wedding. I had no idea what the film was about when walking in. I wonder if the film will receive a backlash for making a comedy about such a sensitive topic. I thought the concept was fantastic. Couldn't wait to get into it. Intrigued to hear your thoughts, Good doctors. What has been reviewed already? P.S. you might like to know that listening to your pod is part of my birth plan. I'll let you know how it goes.

36:58

Wow.

38:39

Wow. Okay, well, no pressure then. But Tabitha, thank you. Anything to add to the drama?

38:39

Just think gas and air, madam. No, I'll just have kermoda Mayo.

38:47

Yes. That kind of numbs me most times. Puts me to sleep. Project Hail.

38:51

I love the drama. I love the drama. I thought it was fabulous. I'm really, really glad you had a good experience with it.

38:56

Anyway, Project Hail Mary, yeah, is number two everywhere.

38:59

And doing really, really just look, doing really well. And I have had so many people say I went to see it in the cinema. It great cinema experience. How brilliant to be in the cinema with everybody enjoying a movie like that. Anyway, we have some emails.

39:03

Yes, yes, yes. Dr. Nicholas R. Moody, M Chem. MRSC. A lot of emails along these lines. But let's, let's delve into this one. Okay, Simon and Mark. I'm a biochemistry teacher at the University of Nottingham. Very fine university. I would like to comment on the scientific accuracy of Project Hail Mary. I spent the last 10 years in a biochemistry lab, for better or worse, extracting compounds from fungi, evolving bacteria to live in high salt conditions, and assaying enzymes essential for carbon fixation in plants. In fact, my PhD thesis was on the evolution of metabolic enzymes. So I feel I have some grounds to comment. Okay, well, carry on. From a broader strokes point of view, the way the film touches on science is perfect. Never going too deep. The concepts were given just enough detail so the audience could jump to how to solve the problems. Having done a mutagenesis experiment, I can attest it would not make good cinema seeing a person listening to a film podcast in a lab coat while a clear plastic tray sits in an incubator. That said Ryan Gosling's pipetting technique was all over the shop. I'm surprised you didn't pick up on this, Mark. I have many friends who have gone into teaching after their PhD and they have never forgotten how to pipette a viscous substance. His sample was full of air, Mark.

39:17

Was it?

40:42

He should have been using a cut tip or a positive displacement pipette. He got it was the wrong hawk and he swam in the wrong stroke. He got the sample transferred, but he would have got a failing grade on his practical if I was his supervisor. He then does the most egregious thing and does not balance his centrifuge. Centrifuges push liquid in vial to the bottom by spinning at high speeds. A counterweight equal to your sample needs placing on the opposite side of the wheel. Otherwise the system will be unbalanced. Something else, Mark, you did not point out.

40:43

No.

41:16

This would be especially torturous to Rocky as an unbalanced centrifuge would make a horribly horrible high pitched Sound that I imagine for a creature who sees in sound would be like a flashbang. If I had a student who did this, I assume that they were just trying to wind me up.

41:16

Up.

41:31

Otherwise, I really enjoyed the film. P.S. i spoke to people in Elemental Analysis the way you do, and they enjoyed a lot of the shots of some of the more expensive equipment. Down with unsustainable fossil fuel consumption, up with university funding, says Dr. Nick.

41:32

All right, that is a fantastic. That is a fantastic email.

41:46

So it. But it is definitely in the it's the wrong hawk territory that Ryan Gosling's pipetting technique was all over the shop and the centrifuge wasn't balanced for this.

41:51

I'd like to say that's not so much in it's the wrong hawk territory as in it's the wrong breaststroke territory. I mean, that's. That is taking nerdiness to an extreme. And I'm impressed by that dedication.

42:03

Yes, Dr. Nick, we appreciate that. Thank you. Correspondence conemayor.com and number one is the Super Mario Galaxy movie. And number one over there as well.

42:14

Well, that's it. Is that it?

42:24

Okay. So still to come, we have further discussion on films that have been out for a while in the overflow car park that's in take two, which is available ad free on Patreon. In just a moment, we talk to Richard Gad about half man but not half biscuit. What would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation. Another peanut colada?

42:27

Yes, please.

42:55

Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet. Fantastic. Hire 36% more help.

42:55

You're hired and you're hired.

43:02

Shopify has the world's best converting checkout up to 36% better than other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales is up to you. Switch to Shopify today at shopify.com setup and get a $1 trial at shopify.com setup. Susan Galbraith was a housewife in Mayfield, Kentucky. But after a murder in town, Susan took it upon herself to find one witnesses who could point to a killer.

43:04

She thought she was going to be a hero.

43:27

But that's not what happened.

43:29

The lies. A lot of lies.

43:31

What were Susan's real motives? She wasn't in it to help them find the killer. Why then did the cops take her seriously? It was known that she was getting funds from them. Susan's son is wrestling with his mother's legacy to this day. I mean, my mom was. I used the word diabolical. And perhaps the biggest question of all is did she help convict an innocent man?

43:33

I do feel like that they got the wrong people.

43:55

From Sony Music Entertainment and Message Heard, this is My Mother's Lies, available now on the binge. Search for it wherever you get your podcast to start listening today. Subscribers to the binge can listen to all episodes all at once ad free. Okay. Special guest time. Multi award winning screenwriter, playwright and performer Richard Gad is our guest this week. Won the Edinburgh Comedy Award for his show Monkey See, Monkey do in 2016. He's the creator, writer, star and executive producer of the hit Netflix series Baby Reindeer, which you might have heard about. Based on his own real life experience and started out as an Olivier award winning one man show. His latest project is called Half Man. You'll hear my conversation with Richard after this clip.

44:00

Yeah, come here. Look at me. Look at me.

44:54

That's it. Look at me. Hey.

44:58

We may not feel through each other's

45:04

veins, but we flow through each other's brains.

45:06

You get me? I don't think one more time, eh? For all time's sake. I just need to hear it before I lose you forever.

45:09

You're not serious.

45:18

Go on, say it.

45:20

What am I?

45:23

Your brother from.

45:28

Another lover? And that is a clip from Half Man. It was written and created by Richard Gaddaws, who stars in it. Richard, hello. How are you, sir?

45:37

I'm good. Thank you very much for having me.

45:46

Welcome to the show. How would you actually. Do you like doing promotion? Is it the kind of thing that you're naturally at ease doing?

45:47

Oh, it's a good question. I do, I think I like it because my life is sort of exists, you know, sitting in edit suites and being on film sets and it feels like a nice exciting thing because it's kind of like the pre buzz to a show coming out. So. So it feels exciting. It feels, it feels, it feels nice to do.

45:56

And how does, how does promoting Halfman feel as compared with when you were promoting baby reindeer when there was buzz about it but you didn't know presumably quite how big it was going to get. How different does this feel?

46:15

Well, I think with, yeah, Baby Reindeer, I suppose it was the unknown. I was still sort of at that point, I wasn't as well known as I am now. And I suppose it was, there was a lot of what if we. What, what's going to happen about sort of favoring it? Is it going to land? Isn't it going to land? And with this, like I'm just fully Aware that there is expectation there now. And the following the footsteps of baby reindeer is a big thing. And so the. The whole. The feel of the press and doing the press feels the same, you know, meeting people, chatting to people, all that kind of stuff. But I'm very aware that the expectations are very different now.

46:29

Of course.

47:05

Of course. So introduce us to Half man as we start this conversation. What do we need to know, Richard?

47:06

Well, Halfman is essentially the life of Reuben and Niall, the two main characters, and it traverses through the decades in their lives, and it's how they fail to coexist, how they love each other, how they fight and fall out. And essentially the show is about the exploration of, I guess, male repression and male violence and male behavior. I just really wanted to dig deep inside the whole naughty subject and just try to get to grips with it in some way.

47:12

Yeah. So you play Ruben. Jamie Bell plays niall in the 80s scene in the earlier scenes played by Mitchell Robertson and Stuart Campbell, who put in fantastic performances. We realize pretty much straight away that Ruben is dangerous to be around. How would you describe Ruben, your character?

47:38

I think Ruben is, I suppose, the quintessential epitome of repressed male violence, in a way. And I think that he's a man that does not like to be disempowered one iota. And his existence is a sort of reaction without giving away spoilers, but he lives in a very reactive state where any. Anything that's a dent on his masculinity, on his pride, results in very extreme behavior.

47:58

In as much as you can tell us, as people begin this. Begin this series, what. What. What's happened to him? Can you tell us that?

48:26

I don't think I can say that this stage, it's a. It's a. That would be possibly too. Too big a spoiler, but I think that. I would say that. Let's just say that it's an exploration of male violence to show male repression, male damage. And I suppose I would say that there is contextualization or an exploration of where that might come from. Look.

48:35

Yeah, so. So Jamie Bell, I mean, he kind of gets referred to. Well, you call him Bambi, which is sort of like another reindeer. It's like a deer thing going on there anyway. But you call him Bam and he's sort of like a stepbrother.

48:59

What is.

49:13

What is your relationship with Jamie Bell's character, Nile?

49:14

They, for better or for worse, need whatever the other one brings. There's a line in episode two which I think sums it up. Up One needs a head, the other needs a body. I don't think there's too much of a spoiler at this point. And I think that, I think they both have what the other person lacks. One wishes to have the sort of physical dominance of the other, the kind of confidence, the charisma, the machismo. And then the other one probably wants to have the opportunity, the success, the, the ability. I suppose that the other one has the polar opposites in a way, but at the same time, they're inextricably.

49:17

You are, you have physically transformed. Even just sitting there on the sofa in your T shirt. You, you, you're a fine specimen.

49:55

What did, what did you do to

50:05

end up looking the way Reuben looks?

50:06

Well, I've actually lost a lot of Ruben weight since filming. I, I think I, I didn't want to lug all that mass around anymore. And, and then of course, the motivation isn't there and I'm in edit suites all day, so I've lost a bit of weight from Reuben. But I knew in order to, to, for people to buy me as Reuben, this kind of swaggering example of sort of masculine rage and violence, that I needed to change everything about myself. You know, I was rake thin when I did Baby Reindeer and I, I knew I needed to transform. If people were going to buy me as a sort of burly, burly, sort of epitome of masculinity, I, I, I knew I needed to physically transform as well as vocally transform kind of everything about it. And so I went through an intense year of, of intense working out, dieting, all kinds of things. I committed to it to the fullest degree.

50:09

People will have been aware, listening to this conversation, Richard, that you've talked about, essentially, there's a lot of conversation about toxic masculinity, but my understanding of your writing process is that you've been writing this for a long time and that you would have started writing this before the manosphere was part of the conversation, before we'd watched Adolescence, which is also part of this conversation. You've been working on this show. I think about this, right, since, you know, soon after Baby Reindeer.

50:56

Is that right?

51:24

Well, what happened was I, I wrote a script run just before, I think Baby Reindeer was commissioned. I, I was doing the Baby Reindeer live playing at the Bush Theater in Time. I think it was 2019. And they, baby Reindeer, the play was getting shipped about and shopped around and channels were bidding on it and all that. While all that stuff was happening, I was sort of, of pitching this idea out and got interest and. And then a script was commissioned off the back of that. And I, I wrote that script and then Baby Reindeer was commissioned and so I, I put it on pause. So I'd written one script and I put it on pause for all the time I did Baby Reindeer, which was about four years. Then when Baby Reindeer finished, I thought to myself, well, what do I want to do now? I want to go back to that script and pick that project up and do it again. And thankfully the BBC was still interested. So really I had a four year. I wrote one script, had a four year hiatus, then wrote everything else. So I still think the bulk of Halfman, indeed everything, bar that one script, was done in two years since Baby Reindeer came out.

51:25

There's a piece in Hollywood Reporter Richard from 2024, which, which is an interview with you in which you say this show is going to be called Lions and also. And also that you weren't going to be in it. So what happened them?

52:26

Well, Lions was always a kind of. What's it called? Like a bookmark name. It was never, I never really. I think I just thought like two men, two lions. I even explained it shows that it never was really grounded in anything properly artistic or particularly good. And it was always like something that I thought I'd change at a later date. I think I just. I had male pride lines. I pride it. None of it. Even now describing it makes me realize what a kind of weak title it kind of was. And I think that I just knew our hope that a better title would come up. And I thought Halfman really summed up the show perfectly. The second I came up with it, I sort of knew that that was what I wanted to call it. And then I went on a big old campaign of convincing everyone. Luckily, everyone felt the same way. And then what was the other part of the question? It was that.

52:40

Yeah, you said in the interview that you had no intention of being in it.

53:31

Yeah, I didn't. I mean, after Baby Reindeers, it's very like. It's an extra lay of intensity when you're doing a. When you've written the show and you're producing the show and you're always seeing all the kind of creative decisions in a show running capacity to also act in it. And after Baby Ranger, I thought, well, I'll take one thing off my plate and I want to act in it. You almost have to see a show from a sort of internal and external perspective. You're in front of camera, yet you're behind the camera and it, it's really tough and it's intense and you're kind of analyzing as a writer and a showrunner as you're acting and, and it's just a lot going on. It's just a phenomenal pressure. And I thought I wouldn't, I wouldn't do it. I take a load off and I take one job off my plate. But the more conversation emerged around the show and the possibility of me being in it and the fact that that would sell the show better and, and the fact that it was kind of an exciting prospect for Jamie. I remember Jamie Bell really, really wanted me to, to, to be Reuben and, and the fact that he was so behind it and the fact that the channels were too. And it terrified me enough to, to want to do it, which is usually what my doctrine in life.

53:35

Could you have played Jamie Bell's character?

54:34

I. Well, I mean, I'm up for any challenge, I think. Like, I always, like if, if that was. But, but I only really wanted Jamie for that role. I, I sort of. I guess I, I thought in a lot of ways if I was going to be in it, I would maybe be like a bit of a sort of more side character, maybe like comic relief character or I pop in. It's like I'd be like less regularly in it. Like I would be. That was my sort of vague plan. I might make a cameo appearance of some kind. But Jamie, Jamie just felt right to me when I was writing. I never, my mind never goes to actors when I'm writing. But the more and more, like I got into Niall, the more and more I thought of Jamie and I couldn't shake it as an idea and so I thought, well, that has to come for something. So I approached him and he's always been my Nile, ever since he's expressed interest back the other way.

54:38

What did you. Obviously there's aspects of, of baby reindeer which you can't talk about because of court cases and so on, but what did you learn from baby reindeer which you were able to put into good effect here for Half Man?

55:28

I think what I learned mainly from baby reindeer, I guess process wise was that the, you know, hard work yields results. I hope, I hope that's the same would happen. I don't know how it's going to be received. I hope it's received well. One. One can hope and pray. But I think, like, I think that baby reindeer was an astonishing sort of feat of effort, I feel. And I always look back at it and think I worked so, so so hard. And I guess as a result of that, you know, it did go well. And I realized that the more you put into a project, the more likely something is to come off the back of it. And I took all of that sort of hard work and sort of determination and I reapplied it to Hoffman and worked in just as hard away on this. So that was the main thing I took away from baby reindeer. It's like life. You get out of life what you put into it. It's like never true word said, you

55:41

know, you did say that since baby reindeer, it's been like walking around naked. Do you still, do you still feel that?

56:25

I think, yeah. I think that speaks to a sort of maybe like a sort of ex. Feeling of just maybe being exp. Just a bit more exposed. Like, just a bit like people know who you are, people look at you more. Yeah, I mean, what in Baby Ring, you know, in the high when it was the most sort of like zeitgeisty show on the planet Earth. Like, it was, it was way more intense than it is now. Like, things have calmed down like significantly now, but like, I felt like at that time I almost couldn't walk past a single person without them stopping and saying something. And now it happens more regularly. You still get funny looks. You still don't know any given time whether somebody's going to come up and they're just going to start chatting to you. You could be having a meal and it can happen, you know, and, and that's the feeling of being naked. That's the feeling of just not really knowing. Just, just people looking at you all the time. I guess that's, that's the feeling.

56:35

On the plus side, you get invited to do things like soccer.

57:22

No, soccer. It's the best, Honestly, it's the best thing I've ever done in my life. I, I still can't believe it happened. And I, I, I, I, I, I think I'll, I've framed the, the shirt. I've got, I've got it on my wall. I, if I think about it, I always get emotional. I just, what can I say? It was the best thing I've ever done.

57:25

Who, who are you playing with?

57:47

Oh, I played with loads of people. I mean, I could take you through the whole lineup if you wanted. But like, I was sent her. I'll, I'll keep it simple. I was sent it back to with Vidich, which was unbelievable because Fidditch, one of the best center backs of all time, and, and it was me and him at center back together. And that was just a real privilege. And ahead of Van der Sar, who, one of the best keepers Premier League's ever seen and just an absolute gentleman. I could talk and talk and talk about it. Honestly, I could. Yeah. Harry Cure was left back. It was, it was a phenomenal experience.

57:49

Richard, it's very nice to talk to you. Thank you for your time. Do you know what you're doing next is like a holiday? I mean, have you started writing the next thing already?

58:19

I haven't started writing the next thing. I can't say what it is, but I do have an idea up my sleeve that I'm very keen to explore. But, yeah, as you say before, that, it's definitely a holiday. I certainly need a break.

58:28

Richie Gadd, we appreciate your time. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Today.

58:41

Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Really appreciate that. Thank you.

58:45

Would you agree, Mark, that Vidic is one of the best center backs?

58:48

Well, can I just say, on the subject of football, that I'm instructed to say to you, I'm so sorry for your loss.

58:52

I, I've renounced football. I'm not interested in football anymore.

58:58

So I didn't even understand what the relevance of it was. But then everyone went, just, just tell Simon.

59:02

Yeah, I mean, it's slightly premature, but not that much. And I, I, I have separated my life now, so I intend to have as much interest in football as you.

59:07

Very good. Welcome to my world.

59:20

Yeah. So Vidic, one of the best center backs, obviously. I mean, I think you'll probably agree with that.

59:22

Yeah, I, I think he's, he's, he's nippy on his toes. He definitely, he's, he's fast. The thing that he's really good at is helping to set up goal scores.

59:28

Yeah, probably not. Okay, there is one, there is one issue with Half Man, Half Biscuit, which I, which I need to just mention. I, I should have mentioned it to Richard, apart from the half biscuit bit. And that is. There is a, there's a, a disco scene, like a dance, so no one calls it a disco anymore, but there is. They're in a nightclub and they're all a bopping and a moving and a shaking and they're dancing to the Boomtown Rats. And you really don't dance to the Boomtown Rats.

59:43

And they're specifically dancing. They're specifically dancing to Rat Trap, which is, which it's hard to dance to because it's got sections. Yes.

1:00:14

And when you've been caught and then it changes very. And what you can't, you can't do that. So with the exception of the fact that you're not supposed to dance to the Boomtown Rat Chance, let's talk about Half Man.

1:00:24

So great interview, incidentally. And I've watched the. The whole six hours of the. Of the series, although I'm very aware that this, you know, I shouldn't discuss much more than just what you've talked about in the interview because I want to spoil it for anybody. So in that interview, Richard Gad said that it's an exploration of male repression, male violence, male behavior, male damage. Centers on two characters, Reuben and Niall, who describes to each other as brothers from another lover. Chalk and cheese. Again, to quote, one needs a head, the other needs a body. So one is intellectual, reserved, what Molesworth would have described as utterly wet and a weed. We meet him.

1:00:36

Hello, clouds. Hello, sky.

1:01:18

Hello, clouds. Hello, sky. Exactly. Fatherington Thomas. And we meet him at school being bullied, beaten up, because he's got.

1:01:20

Got.

1:01:28

I think they're Indiana Jones trading stickers, aren't they? There's a running Harrison Ford joke. The other comes to live in his room and he is a thug. Loud, strong, dangerous. Maybe not the sharpest knife in the draw. They are polar opposites. But the crucial thing is that they are, in many senses, two halves of a divided soul. The series is called Half Man. There is. There is an element here of Fight Club. We'll talk about, incidentally, in. In Take two. That idea of two characters being two sides of one person, that's not a plot spoiler. It's not literally that, but it's a. And as you mentioned, the original title was Lions. That's lions, plural, not lion and lamb. These are both men who have both been touched in different ways by the anxiety, the toxicity, the weakness of maleness. And it just manifests itself in very different ways. And that duality is also emphasized by the fact that there are two stories that unfold in separate time periods. This relates back partly, I suppose, to Rose and Nevada. We're going back between time frames, and those time frames speak to each other. So this is a movie that travels in time, even if it's not a time travel. Maybe not a movie, a TV series. Gad says that Reuben is the epitome of repressed male violence. Sorry, there's so many great quotes in the interview. A swaggering example of masculine rage and violence who lives in a very reactive state. So if his masculinity or power is questioned or challenged it provokes violence. And you asked what happened to him to get him to that point. And Richard Gad demurs. Well, I think one of the reasons he demures is that very much later on in the series, that question is to some extent answered specifically. But the thing is, that's not the point. The point is, you know, that anyone who has this level of physical violence and rage in them, it's what's. It's the phrase about hurt people, hurt people, isn't it? That, you know, that damaged people damage people. So you know from the beginning that there are demons lurking in his past. Incidentally, in both time periods, the performances are terrific. I mean, obviously, Jamie Bell never puts a foot wrong in anything. I mean, I'm getting to the point of just thinking, I almost want. I want to see Jamie Bell be bad in something just because, you know, he just never puts a foot wrong. But also, the two younger performances, I think it's Stuart Campbell and Mitchell Robertson. They're amazing. I mean, they're amazingly good performances. So here's a weird thing. Because of the way the BBC preview system works, I accidentally watched this out of order. I watched episode three first, thinking. Thinking that it was the start. I then realized my mistake and then went back and did episode one and two. But here's the interesting thing about it. When I watched episode three, thinking it was the first episode, it made perfect sense. And I think that tells you something about the storytelling. There is a sort of labyrinthine tale unfolding here of conflicting loyalties and unexpected allegiances and alliances. But the scenes that I was seeing in episode three told their own backstory, because the piece does add up to a coherent whole. And I think that's because, despite the profound differences of the characters, they all exist in a coherent ecosystem, an ecosystem in which the underlying male rage and weakness manifests in. In different forms. But you can see how they're all feeding into each other. I mean, it was so fascinating. You asked Richard if he could have played the Jamie Bell character. What's interesting isn't what he said in his answer. It was the fact that you asked that question. Because in asking that question, what you were suggesting is exactly one of the things that the program raises, which was that for all their protestations, these two characters are two faces of the same issue. That same kind of, you know, anxiety, shame. Absolutely shame. Repressed rage, and sometimes not repressed rage. I mean, look, I haven't seen the Louis Theroux program, but you mentioned a scene in it in which there's this kind of bombastic alpha male character who's living with his mum. And you know, he says mum, I don't want to do that. And I mean the root of all of this is this kind of, of impotence, impotency posing as exaggerated testosterone. I found that. I, I, I, the fact that I watched all six hours of it I think says something about the quality of it. I found it very hard at times and at times the, the, the way in which the, the drama leaps backwards and forwards. I can imagine some people being perhaps frustrated by. Because the way in which it reveals itself, I mean right up until the last episode, it's revealing things that you, that you, you hadn't seen because the way that the, the deck of the narrative is shuffled. But I, and it, it is dealing with some really, really tough stuff and I found it quite a hard watch. But I think it was really well done. And I think that again, as we were saying last week when we invented the, the, the not the bladder sphere, the dither sphere or the Witter sphere which we want to live in, it says something very, very important about the state of male. Well, you know, as I said to go back and exactly that phrase that he used in, in that, in your interview. An exploration of male repression, male violence, male behavior, male damage. So I, I thought it was very impressive.

1:01:28

The definitive answer as to what sphere we're actually in. It comes up in questions.

1:07:11

Great.

1:07:17

Which we'll sort out in take two. But anyway, Richard Cad, just a very interesting guy with lots of interesting ideas and Halfman will certainly create a lot of waves and a lot of interest along the way, thanks to him. Chorus once you've seen it. Correspondencecodemo.com I think we could do with a laughter lift after that because that's obviously carries some serious subject matter. So it is time to ferociously stab the up button and come to the most loved section of the show, which people always tell me they, they say, you know, the, you're okay, the other guy's okay, but the laughter left is

1:07:17

what we, that's what we want. Yeah.

1:07:56

And in the absence of the self declared comedy genius of the redactor this week the production team panicked and asked for help from our vanguard Easters on, on Patreon, who've had a great time suggesting material. To sum it up a more on Patreon states, some of these are very, very funny. The rest are perfect for the laughter lift. So here we go.

1:07:59

Very good.

1:08:22

Hey Mark, you enjoyed the dogmatic theology joke so much last week that this week we're going to kick off with an existential one to placate the seemingly huge number of existentialists lists in our listenership.

1:08:27

Yeah.

1:08:39

I was so bored on my holiday last week that I went to the local independent cinema to watch Francois Ozon's interpretation of Albert Camus Le Tranger for the second time. I missed the ending though, sadly, because I needed a toilet break. I was full of ennui. So that is actually a joke from the production team.

1:08:39

So good. That's a good joke.

1:08:59

It is French term for boredom. I do prefer the German Lange Weiler, which seems to be.

1:09:02

Seems crosser.

1:09:10

Yeah, it does seem more annoyed, doesn't it? Also, when I was on holiday, I got to spend some time with the younger members of the family and I think their sense of humor may have rubbed off on me. So. Knock, knock.

1:09:11

Who's there?

1:09:23

Europe.

1:09:24

Europe. Europe.

1:09:26

Europe.

1:09:28

Yeah, am.

1:09:29

So thanks to Kathy Dolan on Patreon via her niece. Okay, that works. I have to say that works. Europe. I went to the. The local video shop.

1:09:29

Did you?

1:09:44

Which of course it's just around the corner in Showbiz North London. And I said, could I borrow Batman Forever, please? And he said, no, you're going to have to bring it back tomorrow.

1:09:44

Yes.

1:09:53

Grand hall on Patreon. Patron.

1:09:54

A joke that's a few years old now.

1:09:55

And Steve Hodgson on Patreon. I, I bought my friend in Showbiz London an elephant for his room. He said, thanks. I said, don't mention it.

1:09:58

Hey, that's a well constructed joke.

1:10:07

I like that. I think that's. I think that's very good.

1:10:10

That's good.

1:10:12

So, so the laughter lift. Genuinely funny.

1:10:13

Genuinely funny. Simon, Paul, stay away from him.

1:10:17

Who needs him? Mark. Okay, I'm going to do you know what's coming up? This is the bit where I say, what's.

1:10:21

Michael.

1:10:27

Michael.

1:10:29

Michael's coming up next.

1:10:30

Infamous is the gossip show. That's smart. We talk about Tyra Banks and bringing down Top Model. We talk about Jenna Jameson and how she dominated the 90s.

1:10:39

You know, she's horny and she's in charge.

1:10:48

She just was very smart about marketing herself. We talk about celebrities who maybe shouldn't be celebrities, like the Beckham guy. Brooklyn is their first kid. He's had a little bit of the Nepo baby curse. We investigate orgasm cults.

1:10:51

A woman's erotic power can unlock many other powers in her life.

1:11:05

And of course, we discuss people who have gotten into lots of trouble. My name is Molly McLaughlin. I am one of Jen Shaw's many victims. She was defrauding the elderly and her tagline was, the only thing I'm guilty of is being shamazing. Listen to Infamous, the gossip show. That's smart. The show's called Infamous. Welcome to Crime Scene, the new weekly show from the Binge where we tell you the stories behind the world's most unforgettable crimes. I'm Jonathan Hirsch. You may know me as the host of My Fugitive dad or Dear Franklin Jones watching you. I'm an executive producer of the Binge, the true crime podcast network where we bring you a new series on the first of every month. For Crime Scene, I'm joined by my producer and co host, Cooper Maul, the reporter and voice behind Fatal Beauty and the corporate crimes of Margo Freshwater. We know there are a lot of true crime podcasts out there. I think what makes Crime Scene different is that Cooper and I have boots on the ground. We're investigative storytellers, and so many of the stories that come across our desk we haven't been able to share with you until now. So if you're one of the millions of people who have flocked to the binge for riveting storytelling, deeply investigated true crime series, think of this as all the things that you love about those shows in a single episode. Join us every week in the Crime Scene office wherever you listen to or watch your shows. This is Crime Scene, available now. Okay, so the Michael biopic in just a second. Before we get there, Richie and Hampton.

1:11:10

Yes.

1:12:58

Very good afternoon. To your big bad selves and glory. To the production team. With one thing and another happening in the world, I wanted to share a story of some. Something purely positive, if you'll indulge me. Yesterday I attended a rescreening of Jurassic park at my local Odeon in Kingston, which I name, knowing that they come out very well here. This is one of the films that I consider to be perfect, along with Mary Poppins, Inside Out, Watership down and Terminator 2, if you're interested.

1:12:58

Very good. Very, very good frame of reference.

1:13:24

Yes, because even films you absolutely love, you can acknowledge that they're not perfect.

1:13:28

Yeah, absolutely.

1:13:33

Anyway, so along with my long suffering good lady year six teacher, her indoors, I went along. I arrived shortly before the start of the film and enjoyed several good trailers, particularly the New Masters of the Universe, which looks suitably bonkers. And it was at this point I noted something that had the potential to spoil the experience I'd be looking forward to at the top of the screen. About an eighth of the picture was spilling over into the ceiling. And the same was true at the bottom, thus meaning a quarter of the picture was unwatched. I thought that maybe it was misaligned for the trailers, but when it changes over to the film, it will sort itself out. However, when the opening to one of my favorite films began, this misalignment was still present. Even the opening subtitle, Isla Nubla, was in fact cut in half.

1:13:34

Wow.

1:14:15

Bottom half of the subtitle spilling onto the bottom mask at this point. Yeah, and I think Richie's. You know, that's what he was thinking at this point, I thought, what would Mark do? But having read his very excellent book, the Good, the Bad and the Multiplayer,

1:14:15

I knew exactly what he would do.

1:14:31

I knew exactly what he would do. So I steeled myself to go and inform a manager, deciding I would wait until after John Hammond's scene in the trailer, as I didn't want to miss any of my favorite scenes. It was however, during this excellent piece of acting from the late, great Sir Richard Attenborough that my grin from seeing the film went up a further notch. When I spotted the picture being refocused to only be on the screen. I can confirm no one left the screening and so the cinema must have done this completely on their own, demonstrating that even in giant multiplexes, there are people who still care.

1:14:32

Very good.

1:15:03

I went on to thoroughly enjoy one of the greatest films ever made. Pity about the following six sequels, which I had never seen on the big screen before. Even Hammond's welcome to Jurassic park line, causing me to get totally emotional and finding myself welling up with tears. I would very much like to hear a retro review of both of your thoughts of this film. If you find time in your share schedule. Tickety tongue to you both. And up with good old pictures that allow editors to remain on shot for more than a second. Also up with the Hungarian people who seem to have overwhelmingly voted for love, cooperation and respect over what many countries are dealing with. And I did check this morning whether we have any listeners in Hungary, and we do. This is, according to the Iwitter app, fantastic.

1:15:04

Yeah.

1:15:47

Full of lots of interesting. And the map, of course, is just. Just genuinely fascinating. And we do have listeners in Hungary, so we would love to hear from them. If you want to get in touch correspondence.com but that. That is good to know that someone was watching and refocused and didn't have to be told.

1:15:47

That is. That is really, really, really encouraging. Really encouraging that. That. That. That happened. So what a. What a good. What a Good news story.

1:16:06

That is Rupert Wilson in Hollywood, but county down version.

1:16:13

Okay.

1:16:17

Dear Happa Emirates long term list of first time email. I recently went full Kermode and watched Local Hero for the first time while on a railway journey to deepest darkest Cornwall. How much more Kermode can you get?

1:16:18

And Simon, before you go on, before you go on, what T shirt am I wearing?

1:16:29

Oh, Knox Oil and Gas.

1:16:32

Thanks for calling Knox Oil and Gas.

1:16:33

Explain.

1:16:36

Well, it's Knox Oil and Gas is the oil company from Local Hero. Thank you.

1:16:36

Having finished the film, I went on YouTube and came across a culture show piece of Mark and director Bill Forsyth attending a special 25th anniversary screening to celebrate the reopening of Pen and Village hall, where many of the classic scenes from the film were shot in 2008. So far, so heartwarming. However, imagine my surprise to see several shots in the segment of Mark and Bill casually chatting in not so hushed voices while playing in flagrant violation of the code. Mark claimed to have seen the film hundreds of times times, so presumably knew every line. But poor Bill said he hadn't washed it in 23 years and was probably trying to concentrate, only to have Mark persistently buzzing like an angry wasp in his right ear. Another case of rules for thee, but not for me from these media celebrity types. While not shown in the clip, I presume another patron hailed an usher and had you both removed from the screening.

1:16:40

Keep up the good work.

1:17:33

Yours sticking me, Rupert Wilson in Hollywood.

1:17:34

I'd just like to absolutely clarify this because believe me, it's something that caused me some anxiety. I didn't prod Bill. What happened was, as we were watching the film, Bill turned to me and said, this is a cut version. And I said, no, it's not. He said, it's a cut version. There's scenes missing. And I said, bill, I've seen this film like a hundred times. This is the film. And then Bill went, I think I must be remembering the script. And he, because he hadn't seen the film in a very long time, thought that he was watching a cut version of it and kept saying, there's a bit when this happens. And then he was remembering the script. It was one of the strangest things. One of the strangest things. Believe me, I was really conscious of the talking in the film. We were doing it in as sotto voce as was possible. But in my defense, I was replying to the director, not the other way around.

1:17:37

Had you taken your shoes off?

1:18:37

No.

1:18:39

Okay, that's fine. Rupert, thanks very much indeed for Getting in touch correspondence kerberinabear.com from the sublime to the ridiculous.

1:18:40

Here we go. Michael 12A for moderate threat domestic abuse. Listed on the BBFC website as biopic of US singer Michael Jackson following various events in his life from his childhood to the mid-90s 1980s. So from Gary, Indiana as a child to stardom with the Jackson 5, then breaking away, becoming a solo artist and the Messiah. The film's produced by Graham King, who also produced Bohemian Rhapsody, directed by Antoine Fuqua who made Training Day, for which Denzel Washington won an Oscar. Three Equalizer movies written by John Logan, who's Oscar nominated for Gladiator. Also the Aviator and Hugo. So, you know, very decent pedigree. Cast includes Jafar Jackson, son of Jermaine Jackson as Michael Jackson, a role which, that's in the. In the adult incarnation, a role which he plays extremely convincingly. Miles Teller as lawyer manager John Branca. Lawrence Tate is very gaudy. And most importantly, Coleman Domingo as the Jackson brothers dominating father Joe. Here is clip.

1:18:49

Let me tell you something.

1:19:57

In this life, y' all the winner or your loser. Y' all want to work in a steel mill like me for the rest of your days? No, sir.

1:19:58

Yeah. Cause I sure as hell don't.

1:20:07

Y' all willing to fight for it?

1:20:10

Yes, sir.

1:20:11

I need to hear you a little louder. Y' all willing to fight for it? Yes, sir.

1:20:12

Ready whenever you are, Michael. Woo. Do you know what I'm after?

1:20:17

You want to be the biggest tour in the world.

1:20:27

We need to capitalize on Michael's success

1:20:31

because the Jackson family is the brand.

1:20:34

That's our Coca Cola and we need to start selling. So I'm planning an international tour. This is just the beginning.

1:20:36

It is just the beginning. The film itself feels like just the beginning. And the main question is, where's the rest of it? So the film is super authorized in this story. Michael and to some extent his brother, his brothers, is. Is a victim of his father's ambition. Joe forces them to rehearse, takes them out of school to perform. Savagely beats Michael when as a child he. He isn't up to snuff. He's the band's manager and nemesis. Under his cruel tutelage, they achieve success. But Michael is also trapped. He wants to go solo. His dad won't let him out of his cross grip. So indeed, the primary arc of the story of Michael the movie is how young Michael escapes the strictures of his father's tyranny to become the singular King of Pop. And as I mentioned before, The Messiah. So it is very much a story of triumph over adversity, of a young abused boy becoming an independent adult. Someone who is blessed with an almost preternatural talent, a talent that stuns everyone who meets him. Now it's absolutely undeniable that Michael Jackson had such a talent, you know, an astonishing talent. And the film is very, very celebratory of that. And there's also some of the quirkier stuff about Jackson that we all know, you know, so we get, you know, the Peter Pan of pop thing is there. His love of the, of the original story and Disney cartoons and illustrations here. His childlike behavior as an adult. He goes to a toy store at one point and buys all the toys and signs, toys for kids. And then he brings Twister home and he's upset because his brothers don't want to play Twister. They want to go out and do grown up stuff. His devotion to the growing menagerie of pets, who, he says, they're not pets, they're friends. A rat, then a llama, then a giraffe. And then, of course, bubbles. Infamously bubbles. There's also a very coy interaction with his penchant for plastic surgery. We see him looking at an illustration of Peter Pan's nose and touching it and then, then going to get his own nose changed. Because he says this, it affects the symmetry of his face. The doctor telling him, you're a really good looking guy, you don't need this. But he's going to do it anyway. So a few brief references to Vitiligo, the blotchy pigment condition that was used to explain away the, the gradual lightening of Michael Jackson's skin over the years. I mean, just, you know, look at the images. Although the, the, the whole, whole issue of the overall whitening isn't addressed at all. What is addressed is how Jackson became one of the very first black artists to break mtv, which, as people are now sort of remembering, was horrifyingly white in its early years. We have the still really alarming hair on fire Pepsi commercial incident that leaves him with pain and nerve damage, which will require plot point, a very large amount of pain medication, something which he initially resists. Although it's set up as, you know, we know that this doesn't end well. And we have an awful lot of him being smilingly kind to children in need. From an early scene in which young Michael is on stage and sees a young girl in the audience who particularly, you know, would benefit from him singing to her or to moments in hospital. When he's in hospital and he visits kids on the ward and finds a kinship with them in which he literally, he lights up their lives. I mean, he makes things better because he's got a gift. He's been given a special gift and his special gift has to be shared. He's there to make the world better. And it's during these interactions that he realizes his purpose. That's why he was put here with all this talent to heal the world. He is in essence becoming the second coming. He is the Messiah with a sing song speaking voice, a pitch perfect musical gift, a sense of otherworldliness that suggests that he would indeed have been best friends with ET and in one scene, having watched a news report about gang violence in la, he basically solves gang violence by doing the dance moves for his latest track. All this is fine up to a point because I've seen enough hagiographic pop biopics to, you know, it would be peculiar to take issue with that. The problem is that when you've got all of that stuff and you've got central performances which are very decent, as I said, the central performance of Michael Jackson is convincingly Michael Jackson and Colman Domingo really, you know, let's rip as the abusive father. The songs incidentally are, as you and I have discussed, bangers. The problem is there is a whole other film not happening. There is a whole other story not happening around which this film is not so much doing the hot shoe shuffle as the 500 meter dash. As far away as possible, as fast as possible. As I said, the film starts with his childhood and ends somewhere around the 80s. And one could possibly argue that because of where it ends. Ah, well, chronologically that doesn't allow for any of the darker stuff we know about, but we all know about the darker stuff we all know that, for example, you know, Bad comes out in 87. And one of the high profile accusers of Michael Jackson in that documentary Leaving Neverland dates their interaction back to around that period. I mean, do we remember the Martin Bashir interview in which Michael Jackson said about having slept in a bed with children? Which is just the most wonderful and natural thing, I think. No, it isn't. It absolutely isn't. The point is chronology alone is not an argument enough for leaving out not just some of the difficult stuff, but all of it. Now it's interesting because according to Variety, the film was originally going to open in 1993 with Jackson looking out of the window of his Neverland ranch as the police arrive to, you know, at the beginning of all the legal stuff. Those scenes are gone, as is any reference to any abuse allegations. Some reports say that the last act of it had to be reshot because of a recent court case settlement with one of his accusers, who now is not able to be represented on screen or is forbidden. Anyway. Whether or not what the truth of that is, I have no idea. All I can tell you is what is in the film now. And what I can tell you is that the film ends with a card which says his story continues. Now, there's been a lot of stuff in the press about they're gonna make another one. Because if this turns out to be a hit and with the songs that it has and the performances that it has, it's entirely possible that that will be the case. Bear in mind, the Michael Jackson musical has been running in the West End for as long as I can remember. I mean, you and I both walk past it four times a week. So there's. But if they can, how would they make a second film? I mean, there was talk of this film originally being a four hour film that was then cut down, but at one point they were gonna cut it down into two movies. I don't know, maybe there's enough footage to make another movie. Certainly the studio have been teasing that idea. So how are you going to do it? How are you going to do it? Because the second movie is just going to be all the weird stuff. It's just going to be him dangling a baby over the balcony of a hotel. It's going to be the Earth song debacle stuff. It's going to be Jarvis Cocker making that. You know, that much reported on stage pop protest. It's going to be the weird stuff with Lisa Marie Presley and the marriage or the non marriage, the absence of his face from promotional materials because everything has become so changed and strange that they don't even want it in videos. And the growing welter of allegations that just got grimmer and grimmer and grimmer, how is that going to make a part 2? In the meantime, what you have is a film that for all its nuts and bolts, efficiency, and as I said, it's made by people who know how to make movies, is comedically horrifically hagiographic. I mean, at one point I actually started to wonder if you could play it on a double bill with Melania because it has the same kind of. I'm going to tell this story and I'm not going to do anything else. Now, I am not saying for one minute that if People want just Michael Jackson, the pop tunes, which were great, and a perfectly nuts and bolts pop biopic of that stuff. Fine. The thing is, you can't just have that. You can't simply pretend that a whole other side of the story that has since overshadowed all of this doesn't exist. And as a result of it, there was no moment in watching this movie that I felt comfortable. In fact, what I felt was profoundly uncomfortable because it was literally like the movie was to going, going, don't look over there, don't look over there, don't look over there, don't look over there. And I just, I think it's really remarkable that you could make this movie in the way it's been made and not expect people to go, where's the rest of it?

1:20:47

Because you would imagine that the film, you know, and a Michael Jackson biopic is obviously a great idea. Obviously it's an extraordinary story. But a movie that tells the truth would not get permission to have the music in. So that, so that, that's the problem, isn't it? That if you, if you, if you tell a true, if you tell a story about that second bit, you're not going to get permission to do it so you won't have the music and therefore it'll feel a bit bereft.

1:30:04

Well, Graham King, the producer was quoted as saying that the, that the Bipik was going to humanize but not sanitize Jackson stor story. That is preposterous in terms of what is now on screen. What is now on screen is a second coming narrative. It is, I mean the messianic stuff is absolutely nuts, like laugh out loud funny. It really, it's that level of hagiographic. So it's not just that it's not telling one story, it's that it is actively creating another story that is belonging to.

1:30:35

It'd be very interesting to see what happens to this film because I suspect you're right, Mark. In the same way that the musical is still there in the West End, you know, under very difficult circumstances in all kinds of shows are struggling. That's still there. There are a lot of people who are very happy to just see that bit that you're talking about to, to look the other way, to not be interested in that part of the story and just concentrate on this bit of the story.

1:31:10

Story.

1:31:34

Yeah, yeah. And, and, and that's what it does. I still think, I still think even those people are going to have a problem with, with some of the smile, the smiling pop Jesus stuff. I think. I think you know. But. But hey, what do I know?

1:31:34

Correspondence.com if you see it. We would like to know what you think correspondencecoveramed.com for next week's show. Also what we're after and you can use that email for sending audio and sending videos for assorted Watson bits and pieces. Cinematic or cinematic adjacent is where we've ended up, I think. And here's our first for this week. Hello, we're 1927. We've made a big animated silent film to accompany Olivier Messian's Tarangalila Symphony. It's going to be scored by the Royal Philharmonic, Stephen Osborne on piano, Cecil Arter P. Go on on Martino. One night only. 23rd of April, Royal Festival Hall, 7:30. And just because you're making a video, it doesn't mean that you can ignore the audio. So please make sure that you're actually in front of a microphone and, and not over here.

1:31:49

And as you did that feature, which

1:32:45

is really, really good, you can come and find us a South bank. Not going to work. Did my camera follow me around the room?

1:32:47

It did. It was hilarious. Your camera followed you into all the

1:32:54

nooks and crannies that are not supposed to be seen in the first place. Anyway, thank you very much. Okay, here's our second one this week. Hello, Simon and Mark. This is Joanna Callahan, director of Goodbye Breasts. This documentary tells the story of my two time breast cancer diagnosis and my creative approach to recovery from it. We're on a Q and A tour with Picture House Cinemas in April and May, starting on 14 April in Brighton, followed by London, Norwich, Cambridge, York, Oxford, Bath and back to London. We'd love to see you there. Thank you, Joanna. I mean, better.

1:32:59

That's great. Punchy.

1:33:31

Punchy, yeah. Thank you for sending those. Please do send in your video clips. If you've got something that you want to advertise. Please make sure that you know, as a lot of people, in fact probably the majority of people are still, still listening to this and not seeing the pictures. We would like to have the good video, but please make sure the audio is tip top as well. That's it for this week. This has been a Sony Music Entertainment production. This week's team, Jen, Eric, Josh, Heather and Dom the redactor, even though he's not here because he's on holiday, like forever.

1:33:32

Forever. Forever.

1:34:03

Simon Poole. And if you're not following the pod already, please do so wherever you get your podcasts, come and join us on Patreon, of course, which is a really cool thing. Mark, what is your. I'm not even gonna ask the question. Go on, everybody.

1:34:05

Go and see Rose of Nevada. Let's make this a breakout hit.

1:34:18

We'll be back next week. Steve Coogan will be our guest, talking about his new TV series. I will bestow a year's Ultra membership to our correspondent of the week, who I'm gonna say is Tabitha from Brighton, who's included us in her birthplace plan. She was the one who sent in the views about the drama, but I think if we're part of our birth plan, the, the, you know, the least we can do is to give her a year's ultra membership. So, Tabitha, thank you very much indeed. You can get in touch correspondencecovermeyer.com another another take has added alongside this one.

1:34:22

We'll talk to you shortly.

1:34:58

I want to tell you guys about a podcast that is near and dear

1:35:06

to my heart and I cannot believe

1:35:10

it already came out a year ago. And you can all go listen to

1:35:11

it ad free by subscribing to the binge podcast channel. What podcast, Corinne, tell us.

1:35:15

Oh, it's called Blink Jake Handle Story.

1:35:19

I created it about a man named

1:35:22

Jake who I met who is the only survivor of a terminal brain illness

1:35:24

brought on by heroin use.

1:35:30

But there is a lot of mystery

1:35:32

and medical malpractice and true crime elements that are very shocking and surprising and

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even some supernatural elements.

1:35:40

So this is definitely an amazing story and very unique.

1:35:41

Did such an incredible job telling the story and sharing it with the world. So if you have not listened to

1:35:45

it yet, my goodness, where have you been?

1:35:51

Because Blink is so freaking good. Thank you.

1:35:52

Search for Blink wherever you listen and subscribers to the binge will get the

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entire season ad for free.

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Plus you'll get exclusive access to the

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over 60 other true crime stories on the binge podcast channel.

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Hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts or head to getthebinge.com.

1:36:06