E1126 - Justin Sylvester's HOT Summer House And Housewives Takes & Divorce Attorney Breaks Down Dorit & PK

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Try for free at LinkedIn.com slash all in one. You're crazy. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another electric exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host Nick Joyn, right? By my side is my gorgeous, very tiny, very skinny, very, very just sexy pregnant wife. Very belly heavy up in here. So. I think you look gorgeous with your belly. We are up at the lake. And I've also realized I should have eaten breakfast this morning because. You should have fed me breakfast too. The fact that you didn't is crazy. And we're running on fumes. We had a travel day yesterday. I know. I know what you're thinking. It was like the worst travel day we've ever had. It was just one of those like delay, delay, delayed, misconnection. Delayed, delayed, delayed. I do want to say shout out to the people on this, the customer service people in the field. Saints, I don't know how you do. One of the hardest jobs in the world because the way. Yeah. The weight of the way just the miracle flight goes wrong sometimes and then delays will happen. And then the customer service on the phone sets up the people streets on the ground for like they. They put streets on the ground. Nothing, you know, in the field like behind the desk. Boots on the ground. Boots on the ground. Boots on the ground. Sorry. Boots on the ground. Boots on the ground. And it's always a lot of like, listen, I am not mad at you, but in my body. It was a tough long day. And but we're here. How many can I ask how many hours was the travel day? Woke up at about 530. PST. Yep. Yep. Got to LAX. Got to. At about 7. Got to the lake house at 2 a.m. Central time. Oh, man. And it did include, if you know, the Midwest. And I made every bad decision. You know. You did? Well, I, you know, like, yeah, just like when you had options, you that's like, you know, you have two decisions. They're both bad decisions, but you pick one. Our flight was delayed. We had a tight connection. I'm on customer service. Anyways, I just, I make, you know, they're like, you know, door A, door B, I would pick door B. And turns out definitely should have picked door A. Like in planes, trains and automobiles. Oh my God. Yeah. And it typically like, you know, it would just be one of those things. And honestly, everyone at Chicago Airport that was sitting around us seemed like they also had had the longest day. Yeah. With Chicago Airport. Oh, here. Like everyone around us seemed like they were like, canceled, canceled. I'm not getting home till midnight. I'm not getting home till this time. Tough day. So it's tough day. But the flights are being canceled. There was lots of tears for me and River. But Nick handled the champ. I cried on the inside. You know, I didn't go cold, you know, but I cried on the inside. We have a fantastic episode lined up for you today. Jake O'Cain is a divorce lawyer who is going to be joining us. We're very excited to talk about him. I, well, we, but particularly me, are following. We're getting a divorce. We need some advice. But I am following the PK and to read divorce with great interest. And I just kind of, we have some, you know, we talk so much about this shit, but like when we have Emily Baker on, and I'm sure she could give us great insight, but she doesn't practice in divorce law. And I think divorce lawyers are very interesting because like, obviously there's a legal aspect of it, but they're seeing relationships at their worst, but they've probably all, they've heard every story in the book. And I'm sure they have great insight to how these things go wrong. Anyways, excited to talk with Jake. And he's got some very interesting like perspectives on the Dreaton PK divorce of all, obviously we have the summer house episode. Like, man, this, it gets crazier and crazier, but like this, what it just show is this like the way, if you love an Easter egg, man, this season, like people enjoy this, enjoy, enjoy just watching this season. And in the sense that like, if you're a reality TV fan and you love just the, oh my God moments of like, I can't believe I'm watching that with like the hidden layers behind it. You just, you can't get this level of authenticity that easily. And I just like, you know, a lot of these shows, you know, and I know we watched a lot of these shows to like kind of like check out or, you know, watch casually, but like, you can't do that this season as well. We'll get into it. We have Justin Sylvester, the very hilarious, very talented friend of show, also big, obviously housewives and Bravo fan to join us and help us break that all down as well. So it's going to be a fun, fun, interesting episode. All right. Well, I think Jake's here. So I think let's dive right into the whole Dorit and PK of it all and see what we can learn. And then up next after Jake, we got Justin Sylvester to get into all your summer house drama. And then we'll talk a little housewives of Atlanta and, you know, maybe some more more wives. We'll see what happens. Anyways, Jake is up next before we get into this jam packed episode. Don't forget the vile files plus episodes are now available at free on vile files plus plus in addition to ad free episodes, you get your reality recap deep dives where we dive deep into all your favorite reality TV shows. Obviously we cover a lot of content, but we don't get deep sometimes just because we're covering so much and vile files plus is the place you can find it. Got some summer house we're going to get into, obviously with perfect match around the corner, we're going to really get into that. So many episodes to cover, whether it's Dorit's divorce or Beverly Hills housewives or just kind of just general, that is where we get into the weeds. Plus we have your pop extra episodes where we dive into those trendy pop culture topics where reality TV and pop culture intersect and your update specials, your favorite updates from your favorite ass naked episodes, which comes out this week. So be sure to sign up, check it out. You'll be glad that you did. Speaking of perfect match, I think it dropped last night. It's a great season. If you haven't checked it out already, we have a full lineup of perfect match interviews coming up starting next week. Allie Luber, you know her from Banderpump rules. She's the X of James, the DJ, new father out there. Anyways, she's an absolute star. She's fantastic. She's so funny. She's so great. It's so good. Great to have her back on TV. And I don't think, I feel like none of the men really understand her humor, which is just like, makes it even better because you do as an audience member understand her humor and you're just like, I love her so much. Marissa and Jimmy from Love is Blind. Jimmy's Sporting the New Hair. A great cast of Netflix characters and addition, Allie Luber. So be sure to check it out. Again, we have a great lineup of interviews coming your way starting next week. So be sure to check it out is streaming now on Netflix. All right. Jake, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me, man. We're excited to be here. So much to, I mean, we even got some breaking news, but we'll get into that in a moment. But I'm really excited to have you. Really excited to get into all things divorce law. Obviously, as people know, we have covered the divorce of PK and Derrit with great interest. Certainly I have. Before we get into that, Jake, I'm realizing now that because when I was like, we need to get divorced later on, I was online and we're looking. I'm seeing ESQ next to your name. And I've now noticed that is like, like, first of all, I didn't realize that Esquire, like Jake, OK, Esquire, like sounds so cool. And I didn't realize that was like, I didn't know that was a lawyer thing. Maybe I didn't know. I don't know. I'm stupid. But is that like, what is the what is that? I don't like, what does that mean? You know what? I couldn't even tell you. I just think it adds credibility. You know, I'm told by the bar here that I'm allowed to do it now. And I don't know a little, a little ending to the name. I feel like spruces it up a little bit. So really, it's just like a vanity plate, like for lawyers, like lawyers. Million percent. That's awesome. Million percent. And it works. It sounds so cool. I feel like there's a little more trust built as well. You know, it's like, oh, there's an extra thing there. Like you're a knight. It's great. I'll take that. That's fascinating. Well, doctors get to be like doctor. I'm doctor. Yeah. MD. Anyways, I digress. Jake, really excited to have you on. Before we get into things, can you give a little bit about your background as a lawyer so that our audiences like, oh, this, we should listen to this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I've worked in family law for about five years now. I also have experience doing criminal defense, different kinds of restraining orders. I am a trial attorney. I've tried family law cases before. So, you know, anytime I take in a case, I'm planning on it to go to trial. Not that many of them do, but you always got to be planning for it ready to go if you need to utilize that. That's awesome. Well, Jake is a good friend of Zach, friend of household who's peaked on on plus a couple. Well, yeah, we was actually on Tuesdays. Yeah, he was broke down our love island. You broke down our love line. I did just try to shout out. Anyways, obviously, the Doriton PK divorce we follow with great interest. It is something that's getting really, really messy. You know, these are two kind of interesting characters, obviously, on the show. But like as a divorce lawyer, I'm just really curious. I just feel like one, I imagine a lot of divorce lawyers or lawyers who work in family practice, like you must hear just the craziest relationship stories. And on some end, well, I'm sure, like, I don't know, maybe there's some lawyers who are therapists out there. You probably have an interesting POV about like what causes a relationship to end. You know, who's right? Like I wonder if like you're taking sides, even if you're like, regardless of who you represent in your mind. So I am just curious, like if looking at everything that's going out there, we have text release and things like that. What is your just like 30,000 foot view of this divorce and how does it compare to maybe other things you've seen that you've worked on? Yeah, you know, I think it's a lot of these issues are very prevalent. Like, right? Like there's some issues with overspending. There's some alcohol issues that have been alleged. And, you know, I've also read that there's some issues of, you know, the parents communicating through the children. Those are all issues that take place in normal divorces all the time. The difference is the level of income and the amount of public exposure. I mean, looking at these guys, you have to evaluate how they're going to come across a court and how they're going to come across in a trial, which I think is really interesting when you mix in the fact that their reality TV personalities in, you know, I mean, especially part of DeRito, maybe a little more than PKS. I mean, her brand is, you know, her attitude, her spending, her personality. And that's going to come up and the court's going to evaluate that. Judges are going to make judgment calls on, you know, do I find DeRito credible? Do do I like DeRito? Do I like PK? Do I find PK credible? It's going to go both ways for them. But these guys definitely have a lot of problems. So when you're when you guys are litigating this, is it almost like I suppose so much about the law outside of the facts of the case, which you think would be the most important, it is almost like a pageant, almost like a reality TV show in itself that you're trying to like connect with the audience than being the jury or judge. And it's almost like a popularity contest. Yeah, absolutely. So on family court, there's no jury. So you're just doing a popularity contest in front of this judge. I think that's a great way to put it, Nick. Anytime you have a family court case, it's all about posturing, all about how you come across, you know, let's say you run into an OUI, you know, you go in front of a jury, you just have to hit, you know, three points. Did I did I prove an OUI under whatever state you reside in here? There's so many factors in family court. Judges are given so much leeway to side with either side, just based on I call it vibes court, because that's honestly what it is. So you better come in ready to present yourself well. No, it's what is it? OUI, all I know is I OU. Operating under the influence. Do you want different states call it different things? Oh, gotcha, gotcha. You know, it's so ironic when I think about this, is that, you know, thinking about the popularity contest aspect of it, is that like, I would say the number one excuse of a reality TV star, if the perception of them isn't what they feel the reality is, is to blame reality TV to lean into like, hey, Mason, and again, not to discount that. There's a huge amount of truth to like, yeah, I lean the fuck in, man. I was making TV, right? Like it's not an excuse for like, to eliminate any bad behavior, but there's a lot of truth to that. And I imagine most, if not all judges, even if they are reality TV fans, that that excuse probably doesn't land in family court. Yeah, I don't think it's going to land too well. I mean, especially, I think one of the major cases, especially when you see the revealed text messages that have been reported on this week, talking about DeRiette spending, her entire brand has been extravagance. You know, buying so much things in so much expensive outfits and living a life of luxury. So then when PK comes into court and his attorneys make the argument that DeRiette has been overspending, that's going to make it really difficult for her to escape that narrative. But based on the text messages, it does sound like there's some agreement floating around that they're ironing out. So hopefully they're close to the end, but you know, things could fall apart at any moment. Not too long ago, PK did a podcast and really just spoke his truth. I am curious, if you had a chance to listen to that, what was your just general take? And I guess as a lawyer, whether you're his lawyer, I wonder if you would probably have advised him not to do that. But regardless, on both sides, they always say whatever you say can be used against you in the court of law. I imagine doing an hour-long confessional is a lot of tea that, depending on who you are, is like a lot of information. Yeah. I mean, they're exposing themselves, right? If I'm PK's attorney or if I'm DeRiette's attorney, I'm going to be watching everything they've put out, everything that discussed about the case, everything they've talked about, even in their day-to-day lives. You know, hey, you've gone to this very expensive restaurant or this, you've taken this trip as you talked about on this podcast here. I mean, with DeRiette, part of her, she has to be on Housewives. That's part of her income. She has to subject herself to that kind of revealing situation. PK, I'm kind of surprised that he made that decision. I would be very surprised to hear if his attorneys told him to do that or not, because I did listen to the whole PK interview and I think he's going to hold himself up a lot better in court if this case were to go to trial than DeRiette. But I would have said a lot less. I would have said a lot less. I wouldn't have talked about the divorce at all on a podcast. I don't think that's a smile whatsoever. I love the accent. To that end, like even if I, without even like, if I don't even watch the interview, if I'm a judge, I'm like, you couldn't help yourself, man. You couldn't help yourself. And then it's like, then you have to ask yourself, like, what else can you help yourself with? You know what I'm saying? Like it just shows a lack of probably, I'm guessing, restraint. And I imagine like a judge is going to like weigh that in his like, you know, it's just like, no matter what he says, it's like, because any, you know, a judge is a former lawyer in most cases and they must know, like you probably did this at the, against the advice of your counsel. And, and I wonder if judges like take that kind of things into consideration. Well, they have to, they have to. I mean, you see it on small scales all the time, like moms go on soccer, moms go on Facebook groups complaining about their divorce. You know, judges don't like to see people airing their dirty laundry. And, you know, they'll say, hey, this could impact the kids. Like the kids could read this. I'm pretty sure their kids are like preteens. So they're going to have access to this information. And the fact that they're airing all this dirty laundry, like maybe they get made fun of in school or whatever, it's not going to be healthy for them. And I think that was very short-sighted on his part, especially because it's not a source of income for him. Well, in tandem with the podcast, do you think that we're talking about reality TV, their presence and their storyline on this last season of Beverly Hills and their separation? Like, is that something that like they're going to bring up in court? I would. If I was either one, if I was PK's attorney, I mean, I know the alcohol issue involving PK has been brought up. I don't know how serious that alcohol issue is. I feel like if it was super serious, we would have heard more about it rather than just things that to read is saying. But yeah, because the kids are going to see that and that impacts the children. You know, they really want you to shut it down. And, you know, they're at a, I mean, both of them are, they're against each other. So it's not a distinct disadvantage for either one of them. But the more material you put out there, the more myself as a divorce attorney or any divorce attorney could use against you. And it's just not smart. With the whole like him not paying the mortgage or whatever and like her house then being foreclosed on and her saying, I, you know, I wasn't aware that he wasn't paying anything. I mean, that's got to look terrible on PK. You know, it may look terrible on PK if he'd been doing it historically and he has, but another issue as well is that she's living in the house right now. I don't believe there's any order of who needs to. So anytime you get divorced, temporary restraining order, you know, and you want to try to keep the status quo as much as possible, but anytime people are separating, you're going to get new property and, you know, naturally the status quo of the financial situation is going to change just based on people being separated, buying new houses, having, you know, pay for utilities by themselves versus together. I mean, with PK, yeah, it could come to hammer him, but, you know, I think the spending issue with DeRite is probably more pressing there in terms of their financial issues. So you think a judge would focus on like, well, you are obviously spending all this money. Why weren't you like making sure your bills were paid type of thing? I think that could be an issue. Yeah, I do think that could be an issue. And also too, it was brought up at their reunion that was filmed, I think back in March, but there's a difference between financial abuse and outsourcing your financial responsibility. Advice for anyone out there, know what's going on with your finances. If you're in a relationship or anything like that, you know, at least check the tax returns every year, you know, every couple of months, just, Hey, are we good? Or we let me look at a statement or something. But, you know, it looks like DeRite kind of gave that all over to PK and, you know, her not being aware of her finances is not an excuse to blow so much money. Yeah, because there's like, on PK side, he could be like, I would have loved to have paid our mortgage, but we had no money, you know, like, you know, she bought a person. I mean, I don't know if that's accurate or true, but Justin, go ahead. Yeah, I guess my question is what's, what is the ultimate purpose of these documents? Cause I know it's family law and I know like PK is asking the court to force the sale of the house. And a lot of this is trying to like show what their expenses are. So is this a separation of assets? Is this mediation for the kids? Like what is the full scope of what these documents are trying to accomplish? So they're trying to edge themselves closer and closer to a divorce, right? These things take time. Um, and so slowly you're, you have so many things to debate. You have the, the custody of the children, you have the financial assets, which is probably the most talked about issues we're talking about now. So yeah, it's just edging closer to when they get to their final agreement. And it seems to be based on the text messages going through all of them within the past month or two. It looks like the only major decision left is the house based on what they're saying in these text messages. In terms of like, if they're separating assets and they're trying to prove like what was a necessity for, I guess, their lifestyle, I know one of the things that came up was the amount that PK would spend on groceries, which I think, or Dery, but I think the amount came up to like $6,402 for groceries per month. Now eggs are expensive guys. But would the court look at that and be like, that was a necessary expense for their lifestyle? Or will they look at that and be like, well, that was excessive. You could have been shopping for like $1,000 worth of groceries. I mean, absolutely. That's something that could come up. But I think what's really important here is, you know, a lot of Dery's expenses and, you know, PK's expenses have been talked about for the last year. I'd be really interested to see and what happened the year prior. Is this going in line with what they spent on groceries in 2024, you know, prior to Dery going to file? Yeah, when they were together, is this along the lines of what they were doing? Or are these major jumps? Because even like the critique of Dery, like I think she's getting a lot of crap for like $69,000 like bags and things like that. Was she spending this when they were together? Like, is this a normal expense for her? Or has she amped it up? You know, if it's something that she's amped up, she is going to she's going to feel the burn on that a lot more. We always talk about how like reality TV is it can often be the demise of a relationship, certainly a marriage. But I'm curious as a relationship, just, you know, anyone listening to this, like, I how often do you see, you know, a couple that like part of their story is like someone or both parties, things change. Maybe they got this huge promotion, you know, maybe, you know, they got a huge, maybe inheritance or whatever it is, like something in that relationship drastically changed where the couples like what for whatever reason, that was maybe like the starting point of like the rift. Is that a fair, a pretty common occurrence or like argue or is it divorced more? Like, I don't know, there's like 50,000 different stories all unique. You know, there are a million stories that are all unique, but there definitely are trends and like one of those trends is you pointed out, Nick, you know, any kind of change in a person's life. And I think, you know, reality TV and getting that kind of exposure is absolutely a huge change. And that's, you know, going to put a significant amount of stress. I mean, I, I know from survivor, my experience on there, which was very limited, that was a significant amount of stress on my life, you know, but the thing with these people is that they've been doing it for a long time. The she's been on, they've been on Real Housewives since 2016. I can only imagine that being under the public eye, you know, has put an even greater pressure on them, you know, and when you're going into divorce, it's very difficult to have your dirty laundry aired to the public. And, you know, you will see that when there are prominent people, maybe it's not as big as national, national media, but people who are prominent in their community, you know, they get, you know, board of select men or some kind of, you know, political thing or, you know, like you said, a promotion that any kind of change, if a couple can't last through change, you kind of wind up coming to me or someone who does what I do, you know, That's fascinating. So to wrap things up on a Doriton PK, I am curious, like, do you, you kind of alluded to it, says you feel like PK will come across better in court. And it sounds like at the end of the day, that's really what it's all about. If that, if you're right in that is the case, like what, what could that mean in terms of a final determination? Like, I guess my question is like, what's the delta? You know, because it's my understanding, like California is like a 50 50 state in like, Wisconsin, which is like two places I'm from. But like, so I guess my question is, is like, what, you know, at the end of the day, how much does the either party have to lose in terms of what they would be made responsible for by the term, the term, the determination of the judge. So here with the money being split, it's a 50 50 state. The problem is here is their final issue. Likely is her amount of spending. If he can prove that she overspent it, she was a shopaholic. You see it a lot of people with, with a lot of people who have like an alcohol problem or a drug problem. Hey, they spent marital assets on their drug alcohol or in Dorit's case, a spending problem. If, you know, I think if PK can come across better and show him that he's been responsible where Dorit hasn't, and he's going to have to compare prior years of spending to this current past year. I think he's going to be able to hold himself and he might get a little bit over the edge and get a little bit more than 50 50 because she has dissipated assets through her spending problem. Interesting. That's something she could be looking at. So 50 50 state, like, isn't like a black and white thing. It's almost like a starting point. And then it's argued from there. So that's typically how it works in mass in my experience. But, you know, yeah, so things will go back and forth. I've seen people blow assets before where the judges say, Hey, half of that money you blew on dumb stuff is your spouses. So I'm going to take the half that you spent on that dumb stuff and immediately off the top, give that half of dumb stuff to the person who didn't spend that money. But I'm guessing gifts for your wife doesn't count. Right. You can't. If I think I would never have bought this for myself and she asked for it. I can't go back and be like, I didn't want to buy it for. Yeah, probably not. I mean, anytime, you know, you'll see people do the money thing where there's cheating involved. It's always a lot easier to catch when a dude is cheating versus when a woman's cheating because a woman like, you know, they'll go to Sears, they'll get some guys set of tools. Men will wind up at Victoria's Secret getting them something like that. And, you know, that sets up a red flag when I start looking at bank accounts. Interesting. I don't know if anyone has had any more questions. My last question, I am curious, you know, obviously we, we, we operate in the court of public opinion, especially in reality TV, which predominantly for us is a woman audience. And I think, you know, when we are obviously discussing these things, there's a, you know, it's a little weighted in one direction. You know, I also, by the way, and that's fine because like, you know what, you know, it's a fact, guys, I say this is the household that Justin, Justin Marin, I have talked about this, that still to this day blows my mind that women weren't allowed to get their own credit card as, as, as recent as the 1970s. Did you know that? Yeah, that's insane. That's crazy. Anyway, I'm curious and I imagine, I guess my point to bring that up is I imagine over, you know, not too recently courts were probably heavily weighted towards men and men always got the benefit of the doubt and men were judges. And probably up until recently, I, you know, I feel like things didn't really go probably pretty middle, but like, I'm curious, as society has evolved, have you as a lawyer seen a difference in decision making when it comes to how these divorces are, are litigated? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, from what I see now, I think the biggest change over time. And you can even think about like when you were growing up, if you had friends whose parents they got divorced, you know, the kids are going to dad's house every other weekend and maybe they're getting dinner on Wednesdays with them. Now, at least in my experience, I'm seeing more and more judges bend towards, you know, 5050 parenting time from what I've seen. And so, you know, a lot of people say, you know, family court, there's a little more women sided, I think it's becoming more 5050 as time moves on. But it really comes down to the end of the day. What judge do you get? What experiences have they had in life? Do they like you? Maybe your personality just doesn't click with your judge and that can make it a tougher time for you. So you're saying even historically, you feel like family courts have been more prone to side with women. I understand with the parenting and obviously childcare, that obviously makes that's the case. But even financially, do you feel like you've historically, that was always a case? Financially, no, that's been more stagnant, in my opinion. You know, typically when you look at the finances, it comes down to a math problem. Right. You know, you see, you know, you see Alamone going to men and women now, you know, I've had more cases where, you know, women are receiving Alamone than men, or, you know, called spouses support as well. But yeah, I would say, I would say financially, it's similar. Yeah, Rachel Lindsay's ex-husband is sucking off the... Anyway, anyone have any more questions for Jay, before we go? I have another question. So in regards to speaking about like the potential of overspending and debt on Dereed's side, I know that they experienced a robbery a couple of years ago and that had like a psychological impact on Dereed, as it would. And I think is there a world where like if PK is trying to take the angle of she's overspending, that there can be an argument of that's her coping from having experienced that, and that's just a result of like, I don't know, some kind of psychological defense approach. Yeah, so I you can definitely make that argument. And if I was her attorney, I would make that argument. But I think this is a lot of like the when people are looking at these situations and they don't have experience in family court, a lot, they'll see actions of someone that they may like on TV. And they come up with a psychological reason for that makes sense for why they did what they did, you know, but at the end of the day, the impact of what she did, you know, while maybe more understandable, he may still be able to prove that she overspent given the automatic restraining order that was put in place once she filed. I mean, you saw a lot of people bring up mental health issues and, you know, the effects of like abuse with like that whole Taylor Frankie Paul situation. And, you know, at the end of the day, they're going to look at the law and, you know, did she make an unsafe environment for those kids? You know, not really why she did or did not. And it's the same thing here with Dereed and P.K. It's not why Dereed did or didn't overspend. It's did she. Interesting. Jake, really appreciate you taking the time. A lot of interesting stuff. I could ask you a million more questions, but I know we have to get going, but we'd love to have you back. We appreciate you taking the time. Thank you. Jake O'Cain Esquire, everybody. Have you ever introduced yourself as Esquire? You know, I would feel like an asshole if I did that. I can't do that. You know, I, I'll put it on every zoom though. Every zoom. No, it's cool, man. I appreciate your time, Jake. Thank you. All right. Talk soon. Have a good one. Thank you guys. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. He like sleep talking about my favorite mattress of all time. We are up at the lake and you know what? Know what makes a house feel like a home? Your mattress that you sleep on. And when we come to the lake, we're still on the same moonlight mattress that we have back in LA. And boy, are we thankful for it. Also, we got River, as we call it, Big Girl Bed. Boom. Moonlight mattress. Sleep is important people. It helps you recharge, refresh and you can get the best sleep you ever had on the Helix mattress. 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It's convenient. It tastes great. You bring it to the gym, whatever you want. Ingredients include plant based naturally cleaning chlorophyll, no sugar, artificial sweetener colors or fillers, which is something I really love. With over 16,000 five star reviews, you know, it's good. Get a daily detox with chlorophyll stick packs. Nature Sunshine is offering 20% off your first order plus free shipping. Go to naturesunshine.com and use promo code V I a L L at checkout. That's code V I a L L at naturesunshine.com. I mean, not an interesting stuff. It sounds like he's sounds like PK is going to win. Although I do think it was really stupid. Listen, I appreciate him doing that interview. We would love to interview him, but I wonder if it's like it's in his best interest. But outside of that. Yeah, I feel like if you're Doreet's lawyers and they're be like, honestly, that reunion was not good for us. No, it was not. I mean, if the judge is a fan of Beverly Hills, for sure. Like, they're annoyed with Doreet. It's not a fan. But if you're if you're PK's lawyers, like you're she just and again, for all we know, maybe fucking Doreet was like, you know what? I'm going to show up. Well, that's why she's so mad at Kyle for saying the whole like manic and erratic thing, because she's like, you know, PK is going to use that against me. You said it on national television that I'm acting erratic and manic. And like, you've been my friends for 10 years and now like that's going to be used against me. Only and that's fair. And if you're Doreet, I get why you're mad at Kyle. The only issue is at some point when you keep acting mad in her, whatever the two words were, an erratic. But like she didn't like Kyle's criticism had nothing to do with the fact that Doreet showed up to that reunion like how she did. And Kyle pointing it out wasn't like the big like reveal. It wasn't like we didn't see it until Kyle brought it up. Yeah, Natalie is right, though, because the whole the whole season has been Kyle kind of disproving everything that Doreet's trying to say, which then could be used in court to be like, oh, well, he actually doesn't have a drink. You know, to that end, though, when you say it like that, I don't feel like I fully appreciated like it. Well, two things. One, I get why Doreet's pissed. Two, at the same time, it's also it does tell me that the end of the day, Kyle doesn't really like Doreet. She has better friends with P.K. And right or wrong. Yeah, her doing it has way. Kyle certainly knows I'm not even faulting. It's just like I think that's. Well, I don't think Kyle was thinking about lawyers listening, watching Girl Housewives of Beverly Hills when she's FaceTiming Bose and being like, listen, Doreet's spinning a bunch of money. She's kind of giving her had it. And I'm not I'm not. This is not a critique of Kyle. I mean, honestly, like after this reunion of I'm Kyle, I I empathize with her plight. I am just saying I don't think no, I actually, yeah, I mean, Doreet brought it up too many times for it to not be like something if you're if you're best friends with Doreet and maybe you made the mistake of just like and she's like, yo, like just remember, like we're everything it can be said or can be used against the court of law. You might be like, oh, shit, my bad, I would never do that again. But Kyle like is like her through line all season has to be, you know, po coals and Doreet's behavior. Yeah, I think it's so messy. I think my take about all this as a child of divorce is like both of them are going to go into survival mode and they're both going to use their tactics of like character assassination and like we're seeing the results of that on camera and in the courts. And like it's just going to like because they're both they're all they're all trying to survive and like it's going to look messy. But you know that makes a great point, Justin, that I honestly would have liked to have asked Jake. But maybe I'll admit your perspective right now we're in this kind of very like now we're we're growing our family. You know, I mean, I like to think we're still in the honeymoon phase. But I guess what I'm saying is this like these couples that had children together are now getting divorced. Everyone outside looking in is always like but the kids and sometimes expect like this is a perfect example. Their kids are teenagers. They're consuming this content. I don't think they're teenagers. I think they're like. No, I don't know. You have four year olds learning how to like open iPads. I'm just saying like they're not they're old enough to to hear this stuff, to you know, to be teased at school anyways. But like why do you think Justin is someone who's lived this experience? Why do you feel like despite like this, you know, because right now that's what I'm bringing like our our relationship is like I couldn't imagine to to want to even if I hated Natalie disrespect her in a way that would impact my child's point of view because regardless of how I feel about Natalie, I know how important that relationship is to my daughter, you know. And I'm just like, how do you at what point, Justin, do you feel like people lose sight of that? I have a vivid memory and I know yes, Justin, but I do have a vivid memory of my parents divorced when I was three of being like maybe maybe eight or nine and my older sister and my mom, I remember would just like say like, you know, just like bash my dad would just be like he was never there for us. He was, you know, a bad dad. And at this point, I was seeing my dad every other weekend. He was like coaching my basketball team. And so I'm obviously not seeing the version that they're talking about. And I remember specifically going to them and crying and being like stop talking bad about my dad, like he's my Superman. I remember saying and they were like, oh, shit, sorry. Like, yeah, you're right. Someday. And of course, I grew up. I listened to all the stories. I hurt, you know, I saw what had happened and I like made my own conclusions of what type of father he was. But it was definitely I had that memory of being like stop talking bad about him. Yeah. Yeah. I always say that like my take is that everybody's a victim in the divorce, like your friends, your family, the children, the wife, the spouse, whoever. Because like in order to separate your assets, it's so expensive. And like you end up feeling like you're owed something or they did you wrong or like to prove or to do custody, establish that like that's so hard. Yeah. Like even long term on the kids and the parents, like to be like, I'm not having that full time with your kids. So I just think like it it forces everybody in the situation to what I said. Go into survival mode and like protect each other. And like, I think there's so much collateral damage across the way. Yeah. I think about like the Valley last season compared to this season with just like Jesse and Michelle, like obviously they still have stuff going on. But they're actually able they're like out of it enough now that they can like communicate with each other like people. And it's like you just watch with P.K. and Dury. Like they just cannot because of all of this assets and all of the lawyers. When you just it's just like sad when you get to that point in a relationship. And that's why I would like can't communicate with that. So I would like Kyle and like Marisa and Mansky, like them not divorcing. I don't see that as an issue because I know like I see what they're doing and how that is protecting their peace and their children's peace. And like, I think that's like an approach that like everybody's like, well, if you're not together, divorce. And it's like, well, maybe it's not that simpler. And also maybe the path to like peace is like not. Yeah. And again, it was so much we don't know about Kyle and Marisa's relationship. But I don't think we can assume that they just fell out of love and there wasn't ever hurt on either side. Like, I guess what I you know, I think you should we need to give them credit because they clearly have gone out of their way to protect whatever relationship that still exists and whatever respect they still have for the sake of their family and their kids, which is paramount. And that's not easy to do. And like, are you guys watching Friends and Neighbors at all? No, I want to. Anyway, it reminds me of that because like the main John Hamm's character and the main family is like kind of honestly, like gives like the Amanskis a little bit were like very successful. They they they got divorced, but they're still very close. And and that the show starts with he finds out his wife cheated on him and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like he still take, you know, there's a lot of respect and love. Because and again, like there's a backstory and they both have their stories. And you know, this is all to say there in that in that show, there's a lot of hurt on both sides, but they've chose to look past that hurt for the sake of whatever it is they're trying to preserve. And I think that's again, like I think it's really awesome and cool. I'm sad that the relationship didn't fail. But I have so what, however they did it, you said that the relationship didn't work. Yeah. But I still have so much respect for how they have chosen to move forward because I no doubt I imagine very difficult. And I think sometimes the other day, people will choose themselves in a break up. Yeah. Yeah. I also think like just to wrap it up, like I think like when there's divorces where there isn't really like a big bad reason for the divorce, like it kind of like pressures you to like make it seem like there is, you know what I mean? Maybe like with Kyle Mariso, there might have not been that. But I also think or maybe there was flip side or maybe there was on the flip side. There's divorces where like something bad did happen and it was good that that divorce happened. Yeah. And someone did actually wrong someone. Yeah. But I guess my point is I think I think at the end of the day, a divorce, everyone has their story. And I think sometimes. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think sometimes there's degrees of severity, right? But my point is, is like, you know, just because there could be a relationship that ended and it could could have been really painful for one of both parties and they could still choose to not burn it all down. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And and there are people who all that happened to your point is there was a divorce. You know, someone asked for a divorce and that that alone made someone want to burn it all down. Yeah, but you point out Jesse and Michelle, which is fascinating, because obviously we had Michelle on and it was basically like married to a monster type of interview. And it's crazy to see them get along so well this season. It was like, wait, I thought, huh? Well, it's like so well in quotation marks, too. So well, yeah. But obviously it's like what the like. Listen, both my parents like were married and divorced before they got together. And like all my siblings are half siblings and stuff from that. So like I'm no stranger to the dynamics of this. And I've watched my parents' relationships with their like ex spouses like evolve over the years, especially with my siblings and stuff. And it's like even like I lived with that my whole life. And it's like you watch it and you watch people just like time. Like it's just literally just like it takes time to it takes time and space to just like, I don't know, evolve your opinion on something like not saying they're great. Sometimes these relationships are always bad, but you learn how to like deal with it for the sake of your children and your family. It's also like to play devil's advocate for Dorit on the show. Like Rachel's though said it where she's like sometimes in the moment, you literally just need to scream loud and like have your friends hear it. Yeah, which is the burning it all down. You know, like just in the moment, you just need to do that because that's the only way for you to survive. And people process that in like different ways. Well, speaking of needing to talk to your friends, we're going to break down the summer house episode. A lot of more Easter eggs, just kind of just a lot of crazy moments that hug as someone who's not a hugger. And my wife reminds me you need a good 20 second hug to feel the love. That that was those two are connecting. They were. Yeah, connection of great love and respect. Anyways, we have Justin's a Vester with us to help us break it all down. And he's up next. Well, you guys know, we got some twins on the way and that changes our calculus for our cars, because now we need three car seats in a car, not every car does that. So we are in the car market and thank God we have car gurus because they make car shopping how it's meant to be simple, painless and making a great purchase that you feel great about. 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And actually I let's start with a little Atlanta because there's so much to unpack with, with the summer house. But like I, I, I haven't been keeping up with this season, but I just started watching, I always like to start where I am. And then I'll go back and watch the last line. What was that last line of the most recent episode when they were like, oh my God, you're hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, chili, chili, cheese, Frito Pussy. I'm not going to scissor that. Can you believe that? Awesome. Awesome. You believe that? Amazing. Amazing. I rewinded. But if you go back in history, Atlanta has given you some of the greatest memes, reads and minds of your lifetime. Like OG Atlanta before memes were even a thing. The shit Nini and those girls would say back in the cut. OK, we still, OK, we, we still talk about it. We still use them today. Atlanta is kind of a factory of memes and line. And that's why they did good bringing back Phaedra and Portia and Cynthia because you're bringing the OGs back to feel it. Yeah, no, 100 percent. Although these new girls are kind of scary. Oh, they're good. Yeah. I say this with caution because like a lot of people hate my fucking guts from watching TV, but I feel like I can read a person's energy through the screen. And and Pinky just like they're people who I want to be friends with. There are people who will be like, I don't need to be friends with them. And I would like to be friends with her. I would. And I would not want to get on her bad side on her bad side. I really respect from like a little bit I saw. I'm like, she's on a game. I'm scared to K. Michelle. It's a quiet vacation. It's the quiet bitches. I love her who I'm scared of. And also, have you seen Love and Hip Hop? No, I've not seen Love and Hip Hop. K. Michelle was on Love and Hip Hop for a long time. And when she goes off, she goes off. She knows how to do it. She knows how to do it. She does give trained professional. Yes. Yeah. No, she gives I'm trying to suppress my anger because once it comes out, everybody can watch out. You know what I mean? Also her with the makeup when she's like, I'm not going to go to the dinner. I don't have my glam. By the way, boom. Yeah. Also, like that's reality. Like a lot of times people don't realize like your reality is if I don't feel like I want to go somewhere, I'm going to sit my ass in this room and chill the fuck out. You don't have to go sit with six women at a dinner party if you're not feeling it. Yeah. Call boundaries. Just go with it. No. Yeah. Put up your boundaries. Put up your goddamn boundaries. Sometimes you're like, I will not be a pleasure to have in class. Therefore, I should not be there. You know. Exactly. Yeah. On the flip side, though, as I always say, they may be your boundaries, but they're other people's inconveniences and they don't have to like your boundaries. So while it might be reality, the other ladies might be like, I'm not so happy about this. Yeah. We saw that on Beverly Hills this evening. I always tell Kyle, get the fuck up and go. Just by the way, what would they do if you just were like, you know what? I got a booty call. I got to go. To Kyle or nothing. Yeah. They wouldn't do anything. Just get up and go. Also, yeah. Wait, going to Beverly Hills when they were like, you left and you were gone for two hours and you're such an important part of what were they saying? Like this show and this, like we need you to be involved. You know, what's interesting is when your storyline is the A storyline of the season, that's what they were saying. Like, Dorit is the A story. Her divorce, her thing with Amanda, her thing with Kyle, her thing with Sutton. She is kind of, she and Bosa's relationship, she and Rachel's relationship. She is the ligament this season. So when they say we need you, we needed you to be there because you're the story. They really meant it. Yeah. You know what I mean? They really meant it. That bonus check is really going to hit. I wonder how much PK is going to get of it though. By the way, I mean, I mean, it's crazy. It's crazy. The divorce stuff. All of it going on a reality show and going through a divorce while you're on a reality show is probably the hardest thing. I'd rather get a colonoscopy after going to Chili's. OK. OK. It's like, it's a way. Pollock, pollock, pollock. All of it. No, it's literally like getting absolutely smashed the night before major surgery. One thousand percent. And a lot of times, like if you know a friend who's ever been through the divorce, you guys are a little too young for this. They don't think straight. My parents. We don't think they don't think straight at that moment. So to put a camera in your face and then you're thinking about what the audience is going to think, but also you're angry and you're mad like survival mode. Sure. And you're in survival. No, you're spinning. You're in the spin cycle at that point. So I kind of give. I'm going to give a break to the read on that because she is in the spin cycle right now and she doesn't know how to get out of it. When you say a break, do you mean her conduct throughout the reunion? I mean, her conduct throughout the year. But she was throughout the year, like there are moments where I was like, I love, I love she doesn't give a fuck. And I, you know, but like, I just felt there's something about that reunion, the way that she showed up really kind of condensed what it must be like to try to communicate to with Dary and in a point of contention. And it seems very exhausting and frustrating and almost like you could lose your goddamn mind. Well, Andy Cohen lost his mind on the stage. He was like, oh, yeah, yeah. But we all have that friend. You know what I mean? We all have that friend that's like, girl, don't even waste your goddamn breath. She is about to annoy the shit out of you because she's not going to take accountability. And it's like going in circles. We all have that friend. Does it mean that we don't love our friend? No, it just means that we're not trying to have an adult conversation with that person at that moment. You just got to take it. You just got to take it. Yeah, it's also at a certain point. It's like, if you know someone for so long and you decide you want to be friends with them, you just have to meet them where they're at and see who they are and like accept them for that because if you don't like it, don't be friends with them or deal with it. Yeah, you know, isn't that the truth, though? Like, you know what they always say is you get older, your circle gets smaller. And part of that is you're just like, you know what, you're not fucking worth it anymore. You know, like when you're in your 20s, as long as they're willing to have fun with you, you know, if you like the same bar, you know, you're good. I got a lot of friends like that. If they can get you into somewhere that you couldn't get yourself into, you're good. When you're 40 and you both have kids and you got problems, you know, you and you need people to like to show up for you in meaningful moments. You get that calculus is very different. It really is. And I have to say, like, you know, I, Kyle is my closest friend. She and I are like siblings. And I tell people all the time, we forget that housewives is a 10 month job, right? Like you start filming in August, you're filming August, September, October, you're doing pickups November, December, the show comes out in January. You're watching it and doing press January, February, March. Then you're doing the reunion in April. And then it concludes in May, you get a break in June. And then you're doing pre-production in July. So there's not that much time for you to get over shit. So a lot of times you're bringing in all the old shit from the last season. That you haven't gotten over and you're bringing it in with the audience's opinions about you. So now you're going into the show and you're like, oh, no, I need to change these people's opinions because they think I'm this, this and this. And then they think Kyle is this, this and this. So I'm going to go heavy on that. And they don't even realize that they're doing it. Justin, what is pre-production look like? Is it just like cast members meeting with various producer producers to like in an update on lives and potential storylines? That's exactly what it is. It's exactly that. And by the way, it's it just starts, it ramps it up. You know what I mean? It gets you back into that gameplay. So my suggestion is give these ladies maybe four more months off, maybe six more months off. Let them go live a little bit of life. Yeah. Let's let somebody go have some sex out here. Let like you go find this. Let them get their storylines. Let them get their storylines. Yeah, it is hard to once you start thinking about how much they're filming and you realize it's like, what is reality TV if not talking about your actual life, but when your actual life is just working on the show, it just becomes like it's a lot. You know, it's like, where does this stuff come from? And that's, I feel like what you get with Beverly Hills sometime where like the plot of the season is basically just like the subtext of all of them being on the show together. Yeah. And by the way, I don't mind that. Mm hmm. Look, if we're going to break the fourth wall, let's break the motherfucking fourth wall. That's not put a window in it. Let's not open a door. Let's break that bitch down and let us see what's going on because we do live in Hollywood. This is the entertainment capital of the world. We have actresses. We have singers. We have all these, you know, people on the show. If the show is their life, let's say like Dari was two hours late to motherfucking filming, let's show the crew sitting in the back. Yeah. And let's go with that. Yes. Holding the fan. It also makes sense like tonally. Yeah, it makes sense tonally for Beverly Hills, too, because you are in Hollywood and it is so much of the narrative of their lives. 100 percent. I don't know why they wouldn't just. It's old school, new school. It's old school, new school. Yeah, it's it's kind of like they're still they've been around so long. I think this is a challenge with any show that's been around for a while. They're not as nimble. And like it's it's again, I kind of compared it to like, you know, I've always said, like, you know, WWE wrestling is really a reality TV show. It's like one of the OG reality TV shows. They used to be like, no, it's real. Like, you know, they used to pretend it was real. And then at some point, I get I'm not a huge fan, but at some point, the decision makers stopped pretending and just kind of like accepted that like everyone was fine with the fact that this is, you know, realish and there's storylines, you know, and you can still root for characters and you can still find yourself in the, you know, and it didn't take anything away from the show. In fact, it gave them to your point, Justin, a lot more creative freedom. 100%. Yeah. I watched people come back from the dead on WWE. Like I literally saw a bitch come out of a coffin and into that ring and I'm cool with it. I thought he died last month, but I am. Okay. Like I grew up with the rest. Resurrected. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Got that resurrection stone from Harry Potter on USA. The only challenge with that would be segue to summer house is when you get an authentic storyline that we're getting from summer house. And I said this on the top of the show that for whatever, however you feel, wherever you land on this, however you are triggered, do not forget to appreciate what we are witnessing an experience of a fan of reality TV, because this level of authenticity and to watch this back and every fucking moment, every fucking scene is like locked in, put your phone down television. Like you just like do not. Don't forget that. Right. Because like, yeah. When I tell you that editor, that bump a coke, that pack of sick. The PA that went out for that pack of cigarettes for that fucking editor, because what that woman had to do to go back into that film and find those small moments where things were awkward or we saw some tension between Amanda and Wes, like you're seeing that that hug from last night. I like lingering that lingering hug or that Mike pack that you tried to cover. What a sock. And he's having these conversations like that editor, that bitch better win a Nobel Peace Prize. When she's trying to stop her husband from screaming and he comes up and grabs her waist and whispers in her ear and kisses her head right in front of Kyle. Right. Like, right. No, it's it's all wild. It's wild. I can't imagine. I don't know why Kyle is not doing this, but he has to throw somebody under the bus so quick because I know for a fact that Kyle does not realize that the reason why he is acting out like this is because subconsciously he probably knew something was happening. Oh, he would have had to. He would. If that's happening in the house. Yeah. If that's happening in the house. Yeah. I have been more on the side of like not hyperbolic take things like that and more like we we don't need a physical affair to there still could have just like I think Lindsay Hubbard said as much like there was clearly an emotional that's what I'm talking about. But either way, I am getting it's getting honestly at this point, I'm like, I think they'd be fucking it is it is really I don't know that like who knows, but it's it's. Whole quarter of the episode, I think they'd be fucking. I mean, that's again. That forehead kiss. It's I don't think they were fucking probably not. Um, I think they were. I think they were gearing up. Yeah. I think they were certainly they both knew. They were both new. Yeah, it was simmering. Yeah. Things were wet. Things were hard. Slow burn. Slow burn, which makes the betrayal of Sierra just like so just evil. I mean, it's crazy. Let me ask you a question. How would you have felt if it was Bailey that had hooked up with Wes? I probably wouldn't have felt anything. I think she would have. I would have I would have almost been like, girl, you. That was stupid. What a rookie mistake. Yeah, but there's no friendship. There's no connection. There's no loyalty. There's no like lying in a bedroom talking about your divorce. One of the most intimate things, not getting relationship advice, you know, from Sierra, who then she's the middle. She's the messenger in this relationship. It's just. Mm hmm. Let me tell you something. Yeah, go please, Justin, tell us something. Unless that man has a G550 that I don't know about and a credit score of 1275, which is not even possible and a home in Amaganza that connects to a home somewhere else. I do not get this whole thing. OK. And this is what I mean with sometimes when you're in a reality show, you're in a bubble because that was the hottest man in proximity to you. Same thing with Tom Sandoval. You have many a bitches sending you blurry photos in your DMS. Just go for one of the other blurry photos that don't work in the same restaurant as you. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean? I mean, you're right. But like you, you, I mean, you do get though, right? I get less of West because like West, again, he's like having sex with half of America, you know? Yeah. And it's like, yeah, I know like Amanda, I can at least connect the dots between like getting out of divorce and being scared to date. And here's this guy for the first time in 10 years is nice to her. He's always been there for her. You know, and I can't I can't grapple with what's really fucked up. Is this like there then there's some level of Sierra's attraction to West obviously was something that like consciously subconsciously like with like soul to Amanda. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, I don't ever say, you know, like. But I think that guy is like Voldemort. Like I'm watching him talk to the women and he's like a snake. Like he's like a snake charmer because that tongue is so good. Like, like, oh, you don't deserve that. And like the way he speaks, he's playing. He's playing the Bimbo card, which is like attractive to people. Yeah, the Himbo like he's such a Himbo. He understands emotion. He understands emotion. Yeah, he doesn't know. Yeah, therapy literate. Did y'all hear what he said to Dara at the party? This is the hottest outfit I have seen in this house in a really long time. A girl you used to hook up with. Yes. Who is now saying, I love you to your boy. Yeah. Is the hottest outfit you've seen in a long time. And let me tell you something. And Sierra dressed up as the Lorax. And no. And by the way, that wasn't in the original final cut. After this all happened, I bet that editor who did the bump a coke, had the red bull in a pack of cigarettes. That bitch added it back in. Yeah. She was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. And I remember seeing something that definitely sounded a little weird. Let me go back and find that crazy. Just like another layer of disrespect. Like if I'm KJ, I'm like, dude, what the fuck? Like, no, why would you say that to my girl? No, he's really wild. He's kind of it's kind of give him. Take me in a way he needs to be. He needs to know he can. I also want to know what they're going to do next season because, you know, when they announced this Love Island thing, they said, no, Sierra was going to be back. They honestly, they sold the house that Tom Sandoval and her. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. They sold the house that summer house. Oh, yes. That's right. I think Bravo should put them in two separate houses across the street from one another. I think give Sierra, Mia and their friends a house, give Kyle and because he seems to be fine with it, Amanda and Wes and Jesse, their own house. And obviously it's the Hamptons. They're going to run into each other at parties and at clubs and at events and stuff. And maybe at the end of the season, make them cross the street and go to one per one house and have the final showdown or the first showdown. But I think they should separate them because the summer house share is about being with friends and these fucking people hate each other. Yeah. It is interesting that they're not filming in the same house. Or we don't know that yet. We don't know that yet. It was put up for an Airbnb or they were like renting it out. So we know that Bravo doesn't have it for the summer. But yeah. Yeah. But for example, like the bachelor house, like a person owns it and he leases it at the production company. So just because it went up for sale doesn't mean it depends on who buys it, I guess. Yeah. I mean, there's other houses in the Hamptons. You know what I mean? Like they could put them anywhere. I just think they should separate them for this season. It would be interesting. And then maybe bring them back the season after. I mean, because we saw how much it just didn't work with the final season of Vanderpump when Ariana was like, I'm not filming with him. Like I'm not going to be in the same room with him. I'm not going to talk to him. I don't want to do this. And I feel like Sierra is going to be the exact same way with West and Amanda. As she should. As she should. Yeah. It's like how. Sourcing her boundaries. Yeah. So it's like how would this work? She has no incentive not to. I mean, it's wild. Wild. This, the fact that we're going through this again. I know. Is beyond my measurement. It's just like how do you think you're going to get away with it? That's just, you know, I clearly didn't think I don't. But it's like, why not? You hosted the Met Gala Carpet with Sierra. Yeah. Did you guys talk about anything behind? You know, I had a few questions that I wanted to ask. It can be a spiel. Of course, you know, I had to do my thing. I'm a nosy ass black man. So I want to know, you know, the gays, you know, want to know. I'd be asking. I was asking everything. Did you get anything for her? I didn't get much. I got a feeling and a sense, you know, and I also wanted to. This is a whole new ball game for her. So I wanted to respect that boundary for her. Yeah. Wonderful. And we're friendly. So I'm like, I'm going to let you focus. But trust once that reunion's over. Where do you land on Sierra's outing? Jen Fessler on that whole alleged affair. I was more like, I don't know if it's sure or not, but like, Sierra might end up like someday when she heals like being like, I kind of didn't need to do that. All is fair. Oh, OK, burn the house down. Burn the house down. If you see my man's dick, I'm pointing it out. I don't even care if you're his urologist. I feel like something shady went on there. If you had a chubby in the urologist's office, I'm putting your fucking chin on blast. OK, you get a two star on my motherfucking Yelp review. OK, when a girl's in heat like that, like when she's on fire, watch the fuck out. By the way, and by the way, you didn't have to walk in the house, Jim Fessler, you could have said no comment. I hope they figure it out. Oh, poor them. I feel bad for everybody involved. Nope, you took a side. You got burned. Take a lick. But go ahead. But I think Jim Fessler is loving it, too. I don't think she is. I don't think she is. You don't think? No, I think she's living for it. She's on Jeff Lewis today. She's doing something else tomorrow. I think she's living for it. She is back in the press. I don't think anyone would have heard what Jen. This is what I said on Tuesday. It would have heard what Jen Fessler said, and it would have changed anyone's mind. I think we all would have continued to roll our eyes and be like, bitch, Jen, come on. Exactly. I mean, of course, she didn't need to say it, but like she's on a red carpet. She gets asked a question. She thought she was like defending someone like she's a friend of, you know, or maybe more. I don't know. I mean, I just don't know if the punishment I don't know if the punishment meets the crime. But hey, what do I know? I mean, she probably said it because she like she knows everything about summer houses getting picked up. She's like going to say it because it'll hit like she's messy. Fessy. Yeah, she's trying to be messy. I think you're I don't know. I think you guys are overthinking reality TV stars and like their intention when they do red carpets. I mean, I love it. I don't think everyone is like some incredibly thirsty person. And some people are loyal and some people will defend a friend. And sometimes people in reality TV get a little exhausted with like say like standing culture and the overreaction. And when they see someone, they know. I don't know. I have to disagree with that because I think they're on a red carpet. These interviewers on the red carpet know what is going to get picked up. They know what's trending right now. They know asking about summer house is going to get a response and it's going to get clipped and it's going to get a headline. So when they ask that question, these professionals who's been doing this, Jim Fessler for years and years and years knows that her response. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a middle ground. Like I was at the same event, did a couple interviews. I was, you know, I think to myself, I'm always like mindful of it, careful. I'm like, if I really want to say something of note or meaning, I'll say it on my own show anyways. And, you know, I was asked about the Batch Rat and the Batch Rat and Taylor Frankie Paul, and it wasn't like that crazy. But I was like, it's 100 percent going to get aired. And as soon as I fucking said it, I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I probably didn't need to or say, you know, but like it was this. I was feeling fun and like, you know, just trying to have like a media training. Yeah. But you know, like sometimes it's yeah, like you also followed it up with. And I don't know that for sure. I don't have an insider scoop. That's just me guessing, but I do think it's 100 percent. But I don't know. It's like the same as I love Sierra, but listen, like West is a golden tree. I don't know. I just don't know if. I don't I don't know. It's not. Yeah. Listen, you walk in the ring. If you get punched, you get punched. You know what I mean? You want to play with the big kids? You're playing with the big kids. I mean, she might be back on Jersey. I don't know about to be sure. She might be back at the summer house. Yeah. Also, like I don't agree. I don't agree with people dying on the vine for things like this. Like the way and I think that West is going to survive this. I don't think it's going to be this Tom Sandoval moment. I think that West is actually going to survive this because he is not running and hiding. He's on his podcast. He's showing up every day. He's talking. I think that West is going to get out of this better than Tom did. Interesting. But do you think Amanda will? I don't because I think Amanda is the Tom Sandoval. I think that Amanda is honestly going through an emotional time. I always tell celebrities this, the more you put yourself out there when you're going through a scandal, the older the story is going to get quicker. If you do something in January and you hide until August, the first thing that they're going to say at your August premiere is, remember, in January, first time spotted since caught cheating with X, Y, and Z. But if you go out in January, February, March, April, major by the time your movie premiere comes in August, no one is going to care about the fact that you did something despicable in January. Yeah. Honestly, just keep it moving. So it's not a good advice. I literally tell people when I was on Daily Pop, I would tell people all the time, like if you're ever in a bind and you want to know what the media will say or think about you doing X, Y, and Z, please call me free of charge. I want to help you guys out. And what would happen is this big celebrity would call and be like, hey, I'm getting this, you know, from my publicist. Do you agree? A lot of the times I did. But a lot of the times, too, I was like, I think that's trash advice. Like, I think that you should do X, Y, and Z. So I always would offer that to people, especially in reality TV. And I I'm going to, by the way, I'm going to send a proposal to Lauren Sanchez, because I think that she and Jeff Bezos need a little help with how to deal with the media. What's your pitch for Lauren Sanchez? No, Matt Gala. My pitch for Lauren Sanchez would be. Dress better. No, not. But by the way, not even not even. I would just I would be like, I know that you have the 30 million, but you guys are doing too much, too fast, and it's too furious. And when people are on a kick like this, you got to diversify because given like a hundred million dollars to all celebrity charities is great because it goes to charity. But you need to get that money somewhere else. You need to go to quieter places. Grassroots, grassroots. You might also need to serve the potatoes. You got to serve the potatoes. Yes. Also, like you don't have to show up to everything. Like I don't need you at Paris Fashion Week, Milan Fashion Week, Met Gala Academy Awards. Like you got to space. They're inviting people like us to that shit now. You know what? You got it like you have to chill. You say home. Speaking of so Ariana and Ariana Maddox and Carl Racky were on Watch What Happens Live last night got very, very interesting information that came out of it. But like as a side note, no, it's so fat. My my brain that was half paying attention. And honestly, like I love the trajectory of Carl right now. He's got his soft bar. I was talking to him at the Vulture Party and I was like, you know, good for you, man. Like everyone was kind of mocking this idea a couple of years ago. And then like, you know, like culture shifted less and less people are drinking. More and more people are looking for literally what you made and like props to you, man. Like you're really crushing it. Carl is doing a lot of great things. And I say that with a little about to say is this like Ariana has really risen above like the reality TV name. And I say this because like, you know, as you guys know, Watch What Happens Live, you know, they have two types of like guests, right? Major celebrity, Lucie Kudrow, or like a one of the Bravo celebrity, right? Right. Yeah. And I remember when when they when they announced the casting in my brain without thinking about them, I saw it as Carl Racky, the reality TV star casting in Ariana Man X, the major celebrity. And I was like, wait, and I'm watching and I'm like, wait, Ariana's from Bandar Pump. And it was this like, good for you, Ariana. Like like my subconscious brain didn't see her as associated with Carl, which is crazy. Crazy. Isn't that cool? It's cool. No, it's so cool. And I want the same energy. America, Sierra, Miller needs the same energy we gave Ariana. She's on her way. She's on her way. It's not happening fast enough for me. OK, put some gas in that. But she's she's at the Met Gala. She's she's hosting After Sun. She's dancing with the stars. She still has eight hundred thousand followers on Instagram, the internet community. Yeah. And also, it's like she's gorgeous and does magazine cover. She has a great Instagram for you to follow. Yeah, she should definitely have a million. That is crazy. She should have like ten million. Follow culture is like not a thing, though, anymore. No, I just think that we need to get this girl to a million followers. Like there is no reason why she should not. Where everyone is talking about her right now. Like there is nothing that people are talking about more than this woman. Why does she not have a million followers on Instagram? Because we all know once you get to that million, the door is open for you. The opportunity is open for you. The money gets bigger. Like she needs. Let's give it to her. Yeah, that one. And it's so much more aesthetically pleasing. It really is. Meanwhile, I'm still stuck on 285. Fuck the internet. Everyone go follow Sierra and follow Justin. Please. Please. Oh, my God. A lot of people were saying that Ariana like defended Amanda and watch what happens live. I didn't see it that way. I just felt like she was empathizing with the situation, which is, you know, when I was in like an unhealthy relationship, I would go to my girls and vent to them about how in ways that my man didn't show up for me. Like like this literally all she said. And then you have like some people being like, I can't believe Arianna is defending Amanda. Like it's I don't know. And it's by the way, it's interesting because a few years back, if anyone said anything remotely nice about Tom or that Tom was maybe going through a hard time, you know, she was also one that would finish in moral combat. And I didn't blame her. I didn't blame her. She's greater. It's not about blame. It's just more about being like you might feel differently someday. I haven't some empathy to and going through something like that changes people. You know what I mean? Like if you went through that publicly, you're not the same person you are. How do you think West and Amanda are going to announce their inevitable break up? Joined statement on. I had a friend who went through something similar. And when her husband told her that fiance told her that he was leaving her for her best friend. Not and not best friend, good friend. It's our good friend. She took a week and then she came back. She met with both of them and she was like, I don't care what you two do, but you motherfuckers better make it to the end. You better marry each other. You better have that point because at this point, if you're blowing up two relationships for a fling, like you better marry. I think West and Amanda are probably going to be in the same situation. They have to write this out. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But I think that's what I've been saying. I've been saying they better be in love. They better be like head over heels to make it worse. My person. But then to hear from the audio to hear Amanda be like, you can't help who you like or who you're attracted to. I was like, no, the saying is you can't help who you love. That's the saying. So this is already off to a rocky start. And that Yankees that. Oh, that Yankees game video. I was like, no, this is exactly how it's going to go down some version. And again, very reality TV almost reminds me of bachelor relationships where like you are just aware of the social pressure of the relationship. And that is no matter how sincere you even want to be. And no matter how sincere it is, that does play a role. And at some point, West is just going to emotionally move on. But he is he's going to fake it for a period of time because he knows that like even the part of him that cares about Amanda. Knows that he's going to be screwing her over and leaving her out to dry and leaving her truly alone. Amanda is going to fight tooth and nail and try to salvage this relationship because like she really is going to be alone, which makes this episode. And hearing Kyle like, you know, listen, Kyle is a bad maybe a bad husband and he has to watch his words. But that was an emotional episode in the way that like nothing will tear him out apart than that showing that vulnerability and have his partner who like when it comes to emotional connection, I think for both men and women, like what makes an emotional connection is to know that like that person is your person who like bring, you know, like that you open up to and they give a shit about you being emotionally down bad. And when you are opening up that way and that person is a stonewalling you regardless of whether it's justified or not, like those were some real tears. He was the doing the blubbering. The it was no, no, no. He went through. We saw him have a breakthrough and down. Yeah. At the same damn time. The thing with Kyle is fuck what you know. And I'm I always say this when you are married to somebody and you are in a tense moment like that, I don't care if I disagree with my husband wholeheartedly. But in front of people, I'm going to have your back. Yes. OK. Whether it's telling people to back up or keep it under wraps, like keep it under wraps. And then when I get home, I'm going to say, you know, actually, I kind of agree with a little bit with the say, but I don't want to say it in front of everybody. That's the first thing. She wants people to get on the television. That's not. Yeah. But no, no, it's not it's not good television, but it also is Amanda and Kyle are at the brink of what is left of their marriage. There is no meat left on that bone. That shit is dry. It's a shank. And they are looking for reasons to get out of it. If Kyle had cheated on Amanda in a very public way, she would have left him three years ago, but he hadn't done that yet. You know what I mean? Like she couldn't get out of the relationship because she was stuck in it. I don't know what they were bonded over, but they are literally at the fucking brink. I definitely believe Kyle when he's like, you know, I get home from this stuff and she doesn't get up to kiss me. She doesn't say like, how was it? How are you? Nothing. She fucking hates him. Yeah. She hates him. They haven't had sex in seven years, right? Yeah. And she said what a couple of episodes ago that was never even love in the relationship. It was like, I don't get it. Maybe that's just like projecting. Maybe that's like revisionist history. Who knows? I just thought it was really interesting when Kyle like literally under his breath and it didn't seem like he was doing it from the cameras was like kind of just being like she can't do anything by herself. And I've heard I think he's referenced in the past. I've heard it on the streets outside of a TV show. It's just really interesting when you think about again, West and Amanda. And just again, her decision tree was like, maybe she maybe Kyle's right. You know, hold on. Let me play the opposite. Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. Please. If you have been married to somebody who stays out all night, gets lich. Sure. Yeah. You have been telling him that he can't party like that. He picks a career that literally has him doing the things that you have told him for a very long time. And you feel like he has not shown up as a partner and listened to you. You know what? Skewer his ass. Yeah, you tell him because I've been telling him this for the last fucking nine years. Like you're talking about somebody like she's literally in a bed by herself and he goes to the club and then realizes that, oh, I shouldn't have gone out. So I'm coming back here. How many times does that happen in the city to her and that we don't know about? That's someone other's house. That is true. That's not. You know what I mean? And him leaving in the last night's episode after that fight, leaving her at the house alone was also nuts. It's awesome. You know what? And I, by the way, I'm giving them equal blame because as an adult in your life and I get it, you were on a reality show. You got the master bedroom. You were the married couple. You had the wedding. People were fangirling over you guys. So you felt the pressure to stay together. I totally understand it. But at some point you got to look at each other and be like, I have not slept at Koochee in six years. You have not kissed me in four. Should we call this? Right. Yeah. At least now we are equal blame because it is honestly just more fun and refreshing. Now that like, you know, it's like safe to like to pile on Amanda, right? And now and now we're at least open to the possibility of being like not excusing any of Kyle's behavior, but like we're at least open to being like he fucked up too. Yeah, maybe she wasn't the best partner either. Yeah, just emphasizing with the fact that like maybe, you know, I'm not doing the blame. I'm not doing the thing that we do at society. We're going to go ham on the woman. Like and I'm not saying that everybody's that you guys are doing it. I'm saying that everybody is doing this thing right now. And I'm just not. I'm like, fuck that. Like, yes, she fucked up. Yes, she totally did. But I'm not going to let her take the blame for Kyle's shit, too. Yeah, or more importantly, West, because like I've been saying this past couple of weeks that like I think after watching this episode, I don't think maybe West is is emotionally mature. Like part of me is this like, you know, he's one of those like kind of new new aged men that kind of like relates to the pack. He listens to the pack. Therapy speak and all these things. But like the way the way he was just like, yeah, I don't know. Like I just like Sarah is kind of like I thought she just hated me for two years and turns out she kind of like deeply loved me. And it's all very confusing. Like, honestly, I don't know if that's an act or he's just like that emotionally stupid. It's both. You think it's both? I think it's both. But the thing is, like, you know, again, he's getting out in front of it. He's not backing down. He's not hiding in the in the wings. Well, to your point, he's gaining the followers while everybody's turning on Amanda. Exactly. Which is crazy. Well, because West is giving you a reason to follow in Amanda's. But by the way, Amanda can't give you that right now because. Baby girl is going through a motherfucking divorce. Yeah. And every woman in the world hates her. Yeah. So didn't she post like a mirror picture the other day and like it just got flamed for it. It was her first time posting. Yeah, everyone was like, what the fuck? No, bitch. Yeah, take a photo of you walking into rehab being like, you guys, I need to I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. And I'm going to deal with my shit. Like I give me that. Yeah. Give me that. I can work with that. I don't even think people would have sympathy for that. It's really crazy. Do the internet. The internet. It's such a it's such an interesting thing because you just watch. It's like, have you guys ever seen that tweet where it's like, I don't support all women. Some of y'all bitches are very dumb. Yeah, it's like that with a man. Like that is how I feel about Amanda. But then at the same time, it's so frustrating to watch like misogyny also do its thing in this because it's like, I want to be able to be a hater in the way that you should be a hater with this is just like you're a person and you fucked up with people who care about you. But now I got to be like, OK, let's not send her death threats just because she's a woman. Amen. I don't want to have to defend you. But it's like, if we're going to like be nicer to West about this than Amanda, what the fuck are we doing here? Honest question. Maybe this is the forty four of year old guy to me. How how is people reacting to Amanda in the gross way and the women hitting women? Why is that misogyny is fault? Why is women hitting women misogyny is fault? Yeah. Oh, I think him. Well, OK, so I think what happens a lot of the time is you have this thing called internalized misogyny where women grow up like being told that other women are the issue in relation to getting attention from them. There's no food at home. The house is not clean. Like it's just society saying like it's her fault. Yeah, it's her fault. So then it's like when you see something happen with Amanda and she made this decision, she's the one that did it. She's the one that was more emotionally mature and should have known better than West because West is this puppy dog as Jen Bessler. He didn't know better. He's a golden retriever. Yeah. So it's like all of this narrative of like, oh, well, West is just this something like stupid guy that doesn't have any sort of like capacity to take accountability for his own actions. Amanda, however, you are the issue. Like you're the one that ruined all of this. So let's completely eviscerate you and it's disgusting to see what you did. And like that is the rage it brings up in women specifically because it's like we should know better. You should know better versus just like treating her the same you would as a person, which is like people are fucking stupid. And also when it first broke, the images that they were using of Amanda are sexualized images of her. But just like, why are we using these images when like West is just fully closed in a hat? Yeah, it's like an evil cheating woman is like a great story to sell because it gets people invested. It gets, oh my God, how could you do the worst thing that you've ever done that anyone could ever do? Which it's like people like die. Like there are people who kill other people, but like in bra, like there are bravo liberties who like have literally gone to jail, but we still support them. But then it's like as soon as you cheat on someone, you're like, oh, get fucked. Let him die. But I also question what is the definition of misogyny? And by the way, Mary, thank you for that very articulate and very passionate explanation. Mary, that was like the white lady version of what you will know is that your baby daddy had to jaculate into a cup so that he could buy a medium pizza so that you could have a baby. Now check that. That's basically what that was. Thank you very much. The definition of misogyny refers to the fear or dislike of certain behaviors exhibited by women. Generally misogynists hate how women behave, particularly when they exhibit their strength, independence and ambition. So it is derived from the Greek language and means hatred of women. Yeah. Okay. All right. That makes sense. People do be hating women. From the beautiful Greek language, hatred of women. So yeah, we should definitely blame misogyny. I'm doing it. I'm blaming it. Case closed. I think that wraps it up, right? I mean, did we talk about the preview of Sierra kissing Wes or did I? Well, the fact that you could, from last night's episode, you have screenshots. There's like a photo. Now they shared it. You got Wes kissing Amanda, holding Amanda, kissing Sierra, all in the same episode. It's like just, first of all, cigarette editor. Yeah. Bravo. I feel like we should give her name. By the way, you know what her name is? Sally. Sally. Doing the fucking Lord's work, Sal. She is. A round of applause for Sally and her drug addiction. That makes her a great adult. But literally. The kiss. But truly diabolical. Diabolical. But I'm also, again, I'm sticking with, I don't think they were bumping uglies back then, that summer. I agree. I think this started early year and got blown up late last year. Do you think? Sierra, they kiss. Sierra goes to Amanda and they have like a whole discussion about the kiss. And Amanda's like super, like Amanda's reaction to that is going to be very telling, I think. Y'all, it's going to be wild. This is going to be the wildest next three weeks until we get that first episode. Yeah. You know what I mean? Until we get that first episode, we are going to be. But no, but then we roll right into in the city. Oh my God. So true. And then being like, we're picking up cameras like we're in the city for following West and Amanda. It's like Nora Ephron's The Valley. It's going to be crazy. Addiction. It really is. It's wild. Also, how the fuck did Michelle end up with Dr. Drake? Can someone answer that question for me? Oh, I don't know. And that's crazy. Apparently we were told he has very scary lawyers. Oh, shit. I mean, no, no, I love it. I'm trying to figure out how they figure it out. Like I'm just trying to. How do they meet? Is that a thing? Is it an ongoing thing? Or do they have lunch? I think they were just friends holding hands to make sure he got to the car safely. Baby girl. Sometimes you just want to connect. How old is Dr. Drake? If you're going to Nobu or Ebaldy, you want to be seen because that's a craigs. 61. That is your. That's true. You're right. You look like if you're if you're a professional celebrity, you know where you are and are not getting caught. Wasn't Justin's like, are you not clocking it at Nobu? Was it? I feel like it was. I feel like it was in Palm Springs. I think it was like Coachella, no, or something. No. I know West played football, but now I'm thinking about it. Like he was definitely a high school quarterback. He had to have been just the way he moves. The energy. Just the way he moves where he's just like he's like he has to flirt with everyone. He just has to know he can. And that it's not an excuse, but like that's what blows my mind. It's this cavalierness. Again, like how does he move on like the comet towards Dara? And then like, you know, like you have one episode where he's just like laying it on thick with a bunch of women, two thirds of which are in relationships. And that's coming from a former fuckboy here. OK, so he knows the rhetoric, but I'm going to ask you guys a scientific question and this is purely for research purposes. OK. OK. Do you think it's the sex is good between West and a man? No, just the West of it all. Oh, I think so. Not necessarily. I feel like it has to be. He has to. I don't think it is. I don't think it is. Mary saying no. He has so much Riz, like it has to reflect in the body. Riz has nothing to do with that. Amen. I think it's fine. I think it's fine. I think it's a lot. A lot of the time it's like really nasty drunk sex. I bet it's really selfish, honestly. Oh, my God, you took the words out of my mouth. I bet he claims to be an eater and like. And doesn't do it. It doesn't do it. Or just like, no, that's like a thing he says. You know what I mean? Even if he doesn't or not. No, it's the classic takes it. No, it's the classic. Did you come right after he knows he didn't and he did. No, no. Oh, my God. He wants to do 69 and be on the bottom. No, let me tell you. Let me tell you. Let me tell you what it says. I think this text is meh. And but I think the before and after is what the girls are really attracted to. I think let me make you a cocktail. Oh, yeah, I'm going to come over. We're going to sit by the fire. We're going to have a conversation. Yeah, then we're going to have this sex. And then I'm going to stick around and we're going to cuddle. He kind of has to be by no effort. On. Yes. And it's like that. So we OK. Yes. Man, I think the reasons what you're saying, I think it's the experience is what I was getting. Yeah, it's an overall positive experience. But like the that is probably very selfish, very clunky. I don't even know if it's clunky. I think it's a selfish. I think it's confident in like, he knows what he's doing, but it's like, I don't think there's not much care in it. I don't think he's really trying super hard to be honest, because like, I think he's just there. Damn, Mary is reading everybody today. Mary, what happened to you? Mary is on one today. Thank you, Justin. I'm here for export it. Thank you. Justin, it's something we love you. Thanks for coming by. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Justin, for the Vestor, thanks so much for coming. We love you. Where can everyone find you? I know all of the Internet. Get him to a million. Oh my God. Give me 10 million followers. Justin, a Sylvester and my podcast, Yestergaze comes out every Tuesday morning. Love it. So much fun with Lakelith Orton. You guys would really like it. You're honestly your social media has been so good recently. So like, everyone needs to be following you. It is really good. Thank you. And can a bitch get an ad? Can a motherfucker sell some flat tummy tea? Really looking forward to the invite on your podcast, Justin. Yeah, me too. Done. We're in. Justin Sylvester, everybody. We love them. Thank you to all our guests, Justin Sylvester and Jake O'Kane Esquire. We appreciate them and appreciate you all for listening. We have a big, big week lined up for you next week. Be sure to watch Perfect Match over the weekend if you haven't already. It's a great season. You're going to enjoy it. Allie Luber, Bravo of Bravo Law is an absolute star. If you are a star, she's so good in it. It's a really good show. So make sure you check it out and we will see you on Monday. Bye. Bye.