Undercover Warrior: Exposing Corruption

This is Women Road Warriors with Shelly Johnson and Cassie Ticcaro from the corporate office to the cab of a truck. They're here to inspire and empower women in all professions. So gear down, sit back and enjoy. Welcome. We're an award-winning show dedicated to empowering women in every profession through inspiring stories and expert insights. No topics off limits on our show. We Power Women on the Road to Success with expert and celebrity interviews and information you need. I'm Shelly and Kathy's on assignment. Have you ever wondered what it's really like to work undercover and crack some of the biggest criminal cases or even be a bodyguard? Our guest today has been a real-life covert operative you don't usually hear about until the movie comes out. For 15 years, Nina Hopson served on the front lines of UK law enforcement, leading undercover operations into murder, rape, kidnapping and financial crime cases, totaling more than $100 million. She's the only woman with her level of field experience to rise to head of security, protecting public figures and A-list celebrities. But her story goes even deeper. In 2006, Nina risked her career and safety to expose systemic corruption inside the British police force, wearing hidden cameras for nearly a year. Her evidence became the BBC documentary Undercover Copper, which earned a BAFTA nomination. She also became a UK Woman of the Year finalist that year and again in 2014 and 2016. Today she continues to operate at the highest level of executive protection and consults for HBO Max, Netflix and Discovery, on real-world security and investigative storytelling. Beyond that, she's worked in Zimbabwe with anti-poaching units to track down rhino poachers and has conducted missions to recover survivors of sex trafficking. From whistleblower to humanitarian, Nina is a powerful voice on courage, justice and what it truly looks like to protect others. Nina is a true warrior and we have the honor of having her on our show. Welcome Nina, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much, thank you for having me. Oh this is going to be so exciting. You know you're an amazing lady and you've accomplished so much. Did you always envision yourself in this career? I mean how exciting and challenging your career has been at the same time. To be honest, no I didn't. I actually wanted to be a vet. My love of animals obviously started at a very young age but I wasn't clever enough. So it was a kind of what do I do now and actually while watching Kagne and Lacey on a Sunday afternoon in the UK, that was the thing that made me want to be a police officer. Much to my mum's disgust actually at the time and then the rest is history as they say and I am super privileged and honored to be in the position that I'm in. Oh my goodness, yes. So you decided because of a TV show, it's just like this was your aha moment. How old were you when you saw that? Yeah, I was 18. I mean I joined the police, it was crazy. I remember going to my first domestic and it was a relationship that they'd been together for 25 years and the offender, the actual husband said to me, what do you know about marriage? And I was like, I actually don't know anything about marriage but what I do know is that you can't hit your wife. So that's all I need to know at this point but I remember and I look back now and I'm like, it was crazy that I did this so young. Oh yeah, what a great answer. You may not know anything about marriage but you know it's not appropriate to be hitting your wife. I love that. I mean you had moxie. So would you say that that was part of it? I'm sure you had some challenges with your training and working your way up. What would you say the characteristics are that you need to have to go into something like that? Tenacity for sure and I think my ability to stay calm and I can assess a situation and I can read people and I think being able to do that quickly is something that potentially saves mine or somebody else's life and I think that it's a passion to be a police officer and it's a calling for sure. We make lots of sacrifices, family, finances, you know it's not the highest paid job in the world but you know it's just a real privilege to have been part of that. So you really made a fast track from being a police officer to what you became. Could you kind of give us maybe a summary of what you did and how the different jobs you took help you get to where you were to do the job you're doing? I mean you really delved into this and I'm sure you had a lot of challenges along the way. Yeah I mean when I joined the police to be honest which probably feels like a million miles ago you know I wore a dress and heels. My protection was a handbag and we're only talking in the 90s so my handbag was my weapon when I first went to the police which is hilarious but my voice, my mouth is my weapon and it has been throughout my career so I'm and I to be honest being an English female has been beneficial in America but it's because I can diffuse with my mouth. My instant reaction isn't to grab a gun because I've never had one. So I think that's one of the skill sets that I try and teach all of the guys and I say guys because the majority of guys but that's what saves you right here. When you first began you were put in some different roles than the men. As a female police officer I was immediately put into the role of looking after sexual assault victims or children and at the time I didn't like children I mean I love my own now but again didn't know anything about it wasn't the best qualified but my gender made me the best qualified and you know sitting with a rape victim as a young woman myself was challenging and what was I supposed to do at that point and it was that that was one of those moments where I looked into the eyes of a victim that I was sat with who was the most incredible lady I've ever met probably other than my mum and daughter and Margaret Thatcher but you know she looked at me and that made me want to be a detective because I now wanted to capture the people that were doing this so that kind of flipped me from wanting to be a dog handler to wanting to be a detective back to my Cagney and Lacey moment and so that's what I became and I was super privileged I had a great mentor and who believed in me and believed that my gender wasn't an issue and that my age wasn't an issue and that I showed the skills to be a good detective and that's how I kind of became the detective and then I moved sideways into various roles through the career and was always very fortunate to have great leadership and I think that's something that I now in the role I am today I'm also very aware of great leadership and I'm also I work now for a company called Torchstone Global which is I can say the best security company in the world and the reason I say that is because I am surrounded by once again great leadership and the company I work for now they actually care they really care about our clients and that's something that's gone with me from police to private sector and it's something that I believe is very important whether you're at the bottom run of a career or you're someone like me who's older and experienced having the mentors that I now have in the company is also still so important and I don't think I've answered your question at all at that point. Oh I think you gave listeners a really good idea of some of the things you encountered but you actually went I'm trying to think would you say that you were at the federal level head of security I mean you were working with national figures in England you started at what the local level like local police and worked your way up to maybe what would be provincial or state police and how did all of that work out because I kind of want to give some context because we have in the United States obviously local police state police and then of course the federal level like the FBI. Yeah so it's really different in the UK and so we all start I discussed this today we start at the same level and we start in the same kind of environment and we have the same training and then we move into you know I was privileged to move into detective status which I went to detective school to become so I you train at the basic academy and then you go sideways whether that's you want to be a traffic cop which I absolutely never ever wanted to be and then you kind of move that way so it's not even really comparison with how things are working over here but what I did do I became you know I loved my police career and I want to make that really clear because I'm who I am today because of my police career and and and my mom but when I decided that I was going to expose what was happening in the police it was because I wanted the good police to be able to be good police and I wanted this tiny minority of bad police to be exposed because it was the bad police that made it really tough and it took me a long time to make that decision this wasn't something that I woke up one day and went you know what I'm gonna go undercover and expose the police and I'm gonna then go to make a show about it it wasn't like that it was probably a two-year decision and as things changed within the police force and I saw things changing and over that length of time it was then that I made the decision and when I made the decision I was at the time married to a cop and it was a case of I need to do this on my own I don't need to bring anyone into this because if this goes wrong it's then on me and when I say go wrong I mean you know let's let's be realistic police organizations are powerful like any organization and I was what a 15 year service cop and I was taken on quite a big responsibility but I needed to do that alone and so I did it on my own and I didn't tell anyone and it was probably the hardest undercover job I've ever done in my life probably because I knew that the risk was going to prison and actually I did tell someone I told a lawyer I went to see a lawyer and I never forget meeting this lawyer he was wearing he's the only lawyer I've ever met that was wearing a Manchester United football top and I knew that I would get on with him instantly for that and and he said absolutely you are not doing this under any circumstances he said I I have no defense for you so the best is five years in prison and the worst is 25 years in prison and there's nothing I can do to help you if that happens and so you not do this and I said okay thank you for your advice I'm doing it wow now that took some cahoonis I want to get right back into this story with all the details but we do have to go to break so stay tuned stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up Dean Michael the tax doctor here I have one question for you do you want to stop worrying about the IRS if the answer is yes then look no further I've been around for years I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself so now you know where to find good honest help with your tax problems what are you waiting for if you owe more than $10,000 the IRS or haven't filed in years call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back industry movement trucking moves America forward is telling the story of the industry our safety champions the women of trucking independent contractors the next generation of truckers and more help us promote the best of our industry share your story and what you love about trucking share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media learn more at trucking moves america.com welcome back to women road warriors with Shelly Johnson at Kathy Takarov if you're enjoying this informative episode of women road warriors I wanted to mention Kathy and I explore all kinds of topics that will power you on the road to success we feature a lot of expert interviews plus we feature celebrities and women who've been trailblazers please check out our podcast at womenroadwarriors.com and click on our episodes page we're also available wherever you listen to podcasts on all the major podcast channels like Spotify, Apple, YouTube, Amazon music, Audible you name it check us out and bookmark our podcast also don't forget to follow us on social media we're on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Pinterest, LinkedIn, YouTube and other sites and tell others about us we want to help as many women as possible before the break we introduced you to Nina Hobson but what you need to understand is that this isn't just a story it's a life lived under pressure most of us can't even imagine for 15 years Nina was embedded in undercover operations across the UK stepping into cases involving murder rape kidnapping and financial crimes totaling over a hundred million dollars she wasn't watching from the sidelines she was inside these worlds building trust with dangerous individuals while protecting her own identity in her life it was all inspired after she watched the tv show Cagney and Lacey as a teenager she even went undercover to expose bad cops Nina that took some tremendous courage and from what I understand you said you could have gone to prison if everything had gone astray so I knew at the back of my mind that that was the reality but I also knew at the back of my mind that I was so passionate about the cause and about the police force and about the good cops that I knew I had to do it regardless and that's what I did you are a true warrior oh my goodness I mean you took one heck of a risk you said you were 15 years into the police force in your career and you were seeing systemic corruption well certainly you're not going to make friends when you're trying to expose that sort of thing and you're going to have people who are going to work against you and I mean the odds of you going to prison for five to 25 years that's huge I mean what kind of courage that took what kind of systemic corruption were you seeing exactly so it was things from I mean when the documentary came out I think they very much and rightly so focused on the way that sexual assault victims were treated with the disregard and the lack of investigation I suppose then it was you know the taxpayer was paying and the police were sitting on nights not being out proactive but watching porn the police stations were still full of inappropriate pictures in police stations of women with little no clothing on and the sexism the racism the the way that the system was being manipulated for government purposes so it was it was across the board and it was I mean you say you know you're a warrior and courage and I sometimes say was it courage or stupidity I'm not sure but it was across the board and I think that was what made it so interesting was the fact that it wasn't just one thing it was an organization that was corrupt and so therefore it was a harder job for me because I wasn't focused on one particular division or one particular person it was an organization that I was highlighting was corrupt you were taking on a mountain yeah I yeah that takes some serious bravery in your husband was fully behind you I mean so you had he had your back while you're going on this no no no he had no idea oh he had no idea okay when I went alone I made a very conscious decision and I was we're no longer married but it wasn't a result of this and we were married for 25 years so and he's the father of my children but I made a conscious decision not to tell him because yes I knew he would have my back but I also knew as a serving police officer he had great career he loved I was placing him in that impossible position so I made a decision not to tell him so not only was I now cova in the police I was also now having to be a cova and lie to my husband in order to protect what I was doing with the police and to try and best protect my family and that was tough like we we didn't have secrets we weren't that kind of relationship and it here's a cop I'm a cop we we grown up together in the police force and we'd married young and we were that was our lives together and so that was a very difficult decision but one that I had to make very early on not to tell him I was doing this that had to be so tough to do and I'm sure he may have heard rumors and you just had to kind of bite your lip and not say anything right there were no rumors I mean that was the thing it was you know I that couldn't I couldn't afford to be a rumor you know I knew my exit strategy that one day I might have to run or one day I might have to face prison and every day when I left my children I left my children I I think I cried every single drive into work because I actually didn't know whether that was the day I would walk through those doors and be arrested and not see my children again and to live with that pressure because my children on my absolute heartbeat and always have been and to live with that so there was this constant juggle of moral and emotional dilemmas going on in my brain every single day and it would be I wanted to not do it but every single day I continued oh wow yeah there are a lot of people that could not do that at all because you didn't know if you're going to see your family again you never knew what the outcome of each day was going to be or something would be revealed wow did you have some people who were working with you as you were doing this or is this something you did completely solo no this was solo because I it's not that I didn't trust anyone in the police it's I just had I had to do it I didn't know what anyone else's response was going to be so I had to go alone and I had to set my locker up every single day in a in a manner to make sure that when I got back the following day I knew whether anyone had been through my locker because back then the the logistics of it was that I was carrying a recording device in my stab proof vest because we didn't have bullet proof vests there and I couldn't take that out of the police station because that would have drawn attention to me so I had to leave everything in my locker which again meant that I went home in total fear every night so that somebody would go in that locker would pick up my my vest and feel the weight every two hours I had to change the battery so I had to make an excuse to go to the bathroom I had a reason why I was the first at work and why I was always the last to leave and why I didn't take my vest off during breaks and I always had to be 10 steps ahead of the question that might come from an officer to deflect from anything that I was doing wow that's constant stress constant constant stress it was 24 hours and but ultimately my my freedom it depended on it so I kind of I just lived that that life and yeah it was it was a very now even when I'm talking about it I'm like wow that was crazy yeah it was it was crazy and and as you said earlier you know I didn't know what the outcome was going to be I knew there'd be an outcome and I knew that my career was over I was very aware that whatever the outcome my career was over and so I didn't know whether I was going to be hated I didn't know whether I was going to be loved I just didn't know but I just knew I had to do this I had to do it and fortunately for me the outcome was you know I was a voice for a lot of people and uh there were changes made stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up Dean Michael the tax doctor here I have one question for you do you want to stop worrying about the IRS if the answer is yes then look no further I've been around for years I've helped countless people across the country and my success rate speaks for itself so now you know where to find good honest help with your tax problems what are you waiting for if you owe more than $10,000 the IRS or haven't filed in years call me now at 888-557-4020 or go to mytaxhelpmd.com for a free consultation and get your life back welcome back to women road warriors with Shelly Johnson and Kathy Takaro we're back with Nina Hobson her story takes a turn that feels more like a thriller than real life but it's very real in 2006 after years on the front lines Nina made a decision that would change everything she chose to expose systemic corruption within the British police force putting her career and her personal safety on the line for nearly a year she wore hidden cameras documenting what most people would never dare to confront that work became the BBC documentary undercover copper earning a BAFTA nomination and national recognition Nina I know I keep saying this but it took tremendous courage to stand up and do what you did when you saw corruption but you did it for the greater good a lot of people wouldn't have you were an advocate for those who couldn't speak and you brought out the injustice but how long did you actually do all of this I was actually undercover with them for I think it was 11 months in the end so the first month I had to I knew I was going back for legal reasons I had to not carry you know the law advice you know don't go carry a camera straight away go check everything out first because I'd move back into uniform as well so I wasn't a detective but yeah it was 11 months and that's 11 months of pretending to my family and friends and 11 months to pretend into the police and the most important thing for me was that I was still a police officer first and foremost so me recording anything or finding out anything and trust me every day I wanted to not find anything and I was dealing with people I'd worked with for years who were doing the wrong thing and who were friends and knew my kids and it was like I had to have a very high moral level of it doesn't matter who it is if something is being done incorrectly that's what you're there for and again an extra pressure um but yeah it was it was a long time that be so hard these are people that you knew and you knew that essentially this was not going to be a good outcome for them I mean you had to take a much higher like you said moral ground to do the right thing there were going to be some casualties along the way but you knew that there had to be change and that's what it had to take the 11 months had to have felt like five years to you doing all of that going solo how did you present this what authorities did you go to I mean I would imagine you were wondering if anyone would believe you too in terms of your credibility yeah and I think um that's why I went to the media because um I needed a voice I needed what I had done and witnessed to to be able to be heard and no one was going to listen to me I was just a cop um and I went to the media and of course they made the documentary they notified the police force and it was very interesting because the the chief um of the police who is like I think I I'm not sure what I'm assuming it's the same rank here um in America but the chief was very well trained media wise he was a very charismatic chief and um after he was told his basically naturally his response was this is terrible and we will deal with all of these issues however we do wish that Nina had come to us and we would put her undercover to do exactly the same thing but for us and you know no one believed that I absolutely didn't believe that um and we did go on a number of interviews together and he was always super nice um but one interviewer asked him oh so if you think all of this and you're very pleased that this is brought to your attention are you going to give Nina her position back um and clearly that response was uh not no um but back to my point of being a police officer first and foremost because that was who I was and the rest fell into the background but while I was actually working and doing this undercover work within I was actually um awarded police officer of the year or whatever title it was so um that validated again to me you know what you actually are doing a great job as a police officer um and no one could ever turn around and say oh you were trying to make a documentary that was never the case this was a case of I I need to you know I didn't wake up and go I'm going to make a documentary I I woke up and and said I I want to make change and I want to make a difference then you did and I did and you and you did it as a one man show one woman show I mean most people you know I don't think that there are a lot of men that would have that kind of courage to basically take 11 months and they know that they're risking everything and the outcome's not going to be good obviously the police force was not happy with you but you knew this needed to be done in order for the change to be made what changes actually happened after this came out to the public so in the end yes I I didn't think it could have gone either way and the response from the public and the actually the response from the police force was overwhelmingly wonderful and I remember watching the show um the documentary and just being on tender hooks of like what's the response and even my my ex-husband was like wow you know this is incredible and understood exactly what I had done and why and that response around the country I had letters of people obviously I didn't know who were like this was amazing um and because there had been a focus sadly on the way that sexual assault victims were treated by the police there were a lot of changes with regards to that and how the processes were changed with regards to investigations of that nature and um you know sadly the the rape conviction rate at the time was 3 percent I think it's only 1 percent now so I do still have a constant you know was it worth it did it make any difference but at the time the fact that procedures were changed and victims were treated better as they should have been from day one you know um that even if one person was treated differently or one offender was arrested because of the awareness that I had bought to the police that's that's a difference and and I'm happy with that um but I know that training changed and procedures changed and scenes of crime changed and and also I think people were you know the the doing the bad things behind the scenes and watching the porn and and taking pictures down and all of that changed and I mean it it it was hard for me I'd lost my career and I remember the day that I got the nomination through for the for the finalist of the Woman of the Year which is a really big deal but it was UK I mean it's a huge deal and I was sad and I was having a a pity moment I remember it very clearly I was emotional tears you know where am I going to go with my life and this gold envelope came through my letterbox because we had those then and and it just kind I read it and I was like what is this this is crazy and no one knows who nominates you for that award but it has to be somebody of quite substantial standing in in the world or the community and um and I still don't know to this day who that was um which is kind of uh a noam but also kind of cool um and it it blew my mind and it was for services to my country and I'm like I haven't done anything I've just been a cop for a whole of my life I've just been a cop um and that's the thing with cops we think that we're just cops and suddenly I was shortlisted as as the Woman of the Year and yeah even now I mean all these years I'm sat with this big beam on my face because I'm like wow and I went to this awards and it was amazing the the people in that room and then I can say I'm just a cop because the achievements that the people that were surrounding me had had done and made I was like wow and I've been put into this incredible um but yeah it's amazing amazing with the amount of bravery that you exhibited and and the the fact that you yeah you were you would have been perceived as a rebel with a cause for I'm sure by your peers at the time because it was not something that would be done but you championed you were a champion for women you were a champion for the people who couldn't speak for themselves you were a champion for change and you were really exhibiting everything that what you were trained to do you were protecting people by making these changes and you knew that the risks to yourself were great obviously you didn't it sounds like you didn't have a job after this all happened but yet you were being honored as you should be as a UK woman of the year you were nominated for that that's something that had to validate you deserve that kind of validation for what you did and you made changes for the positive which I would imagine are still going on today this is good and it's it takes that kind of risk that kind of tenacity that kind of moxie to make the kind of positive changes did you go on to security being security to high level people after this I mean where did your career head yeah so I went through a phase of basically not really knowing where I was was going with the career and security and protection is all I've ever known and still is you know 30 years on but that was where I ended and we actually as a family made a decision to move to Australia at that point and again was not because I was chased out of England although that's a way better story and we actually moved to Australia and I set up a security company and was quite happy at at home working from the garage you know I this was my security little business and fortunately for me I received a phone call so I had worked very heavily in child protection while I was in the police for many years and became very you know that became my passion as well protecting again protecting but protecting children and one day in Australia right it was midnight and I received a phone call who from a gentleman who I never met and he said hey I have an issue and it's child protection related and I hear you are the person to call for anything to do with that and I was like am I anyway very long story short this gentleman was Australia's wealthiest gentleman a billionaire and I helped him solve an issue with regards to family a family friend of his and I the next thing I was then working for him and I was protecting his family and then his business and my little garage business was no longer just me in a garage and I was suddenly protecting a billionaire and his family and his mining assets and we had a journey at the two of us and I worked undercover for him on various things and then I worked telling his you know his teenage daughter that they would know they were not taking the alcoholic drink at one of their parents parties you know it went from one to the other and and yeah then then again the rest is history that's quite I would say a juxtaposition from what you have been doing I mean you've been all over and it makes it for a very interesting career and being able to work with some high-power people were you intimidated at all I would imagine that you had to prove yourself women in security do they have a different challenge than men oh absolutely they do I mean and I'm the first to to say that but I'm also the first to say you know I I'm good at my job because I'm good at my job not because I'm female or not because I'm male and you know we the dynamic in security is different and sometimes as a female I I can't do the job and I have to not have an ego and I have to say hey I'm not the right person for this you are and it works back both ways you know we have a a standing joke you know how how are we protecting Taylor Swift when she's going in the bathroom because you know as the big guy outside you can't go in the bathroom with them and I don't protect Taylor Swift by the way but if anyone's listening I'd love to but yeah so there's a time and a place for everything for the big the small and I talk about the Hollywood guys you know and the optics for the celebrity but then the optics for a CEO are very different so I'm I'm very much about somebody being good because they're good as opposed to gender however it's you do have to work hard and that's again back to the company that I work for you look at who we are on paper and no government would be able to afford the skill set there you know from X Secret Service to X FBI hostage negotiators it's crazy but we are good at what we do because A we understand the business and the clients and we can leave our egos outside the door and but do I have to fight with the fact I'm female? Absolutely absolutely stay tuned for more of women road warriors coming up industry movement trucking moves America forward is telling the story of the industry our safety champions the women of trucking independent contractors the next generation of truckers and more help us promote the best of our industry share your story and what you love about trucking share images of a moment you're proud of and join us on social media learn more at truckingmovesamerica.com welcome back to women road warriors with Shelly Johnson at Kathy Takarov what's so powerful about Nina Hobson's journey is how it has evolved she single-handedly exposed systemic corruption in the British police force putting her career and her personal safety on the line her work and investigation led to the BBC documentary undercover copper and national recognition her bravery changed how sexual assault victims were handled by the police as well as other systemic corruption victims were treated better after reaching the highest levels in undercover operations and becoming the only woman with her level of field experience to rise to head of security protecting public figures and A-list celebrities she didn't stop there today she's advising major platforms like HBO Max Netflix and Discovery bringing authenticity to investigative storytelling but she's also on the ground doing real-world work from tracking rhino poachers in Zimbabwe to helping recover survivors of sex trafficking Nina has taken everything she's learned and turned it into purpose-driven action she's an amazing lady Nina you've had to go through a lot of training to do what you do pretty rigorous I imagine what kind of training does this take it sounds like you have a combination of all kinds of things and if you're security you also have to maybe even have a background in psychology you have to be able to analyze you have to be able to scope out risks what is that process I mean there's so many things that go into this that I don't think a lot of people think about and I think that's going back to you know how the police has made me who I am today you know I was a super privileged to have the career that I had and be exposed to to the things I was exposed to and obviously it's never nice ever to be exposed to anything to do with crime and children and murder and rape and kidnap but those skills that I have learned along the way and now what makes me where I am in my profession and I think when I just gave the call sheet of the people I work with you know they are all because they've been through their processes and the things that were taught along the way sometimes we're not sat down and taught sometimes it's an exposure sometimes it's a character and my what my thing is I can't teach character I can teach you how to do something training wise and I can teach you you know how to be better at getting through a door and and John I can teach you how to be a firearms expert and Chris can teach you how to do in advance we can teach things like that but we can't teach character and it's such an important aspect of our job and so the training I think has been lifelong and it still is you know as I say I look at the people I'm working with who look at me and we're on the same level but I'm just like I'm so privileged to still be able to learn and still be able to learn off these amazing people that I'm now surrounded with well I imagine you have to think on your feet it's it's not a a static situation you're always assessing security risk all of that when you're working with your clients you have to anticipate and today's got to be so challenging because you never know what the heck is going to be going on and all of the work that you're doing has been just amazing especially you've been an advocate for the prevention of sex trafficking I mean that is a terrible problem across the world so not only are you working for your clients in terms of security and doing all of that sort of thing you're still an advocate you're trying to make change what exactly are you doing in terms of like the prevention of sex trafficking and how bad is it because I know that we've talked about this on our show it's a terrible travesty and a scourge on society and Shelley you know I think there's a whole show right there on that on that topic and and again it's it's across the world and it's let's put it this way it's not getting any better and you know social media and Instagram has also changed the world of sex trafficking access is different but it's it's something that I was involved with as a charity and all of us that work in that area it's because we are passionate about the cause and passionate about making the difference and you know the the one thing that we lack we have the skill set but we do lack funding but it's interesting because when you talk to people who are everybody is horrified by the word sex trafficking as they should be but it's kind of it's I've spoken to people who have the funding to provide but they want to be part of the action and it's not fun under any circumstances it's not cool it's dangerous it's scary it's very real and the people that make a lot of money out of sex trafficking children don't mess around because they don't want us to cut down their money tree so a fight becomes a fight and I've been once again I use the word privileged because it's privileged in order to go and physically remove children from the hands of these evil deprived horrendous I'm not going to even use the word human beings but you know at some of the things I've seen and you know I've had a situation where I've had to leave or the team has had to leave a child because our lives were so in danger and that's the hardest thing ever you know to to know that but you've got to make that decision who we who are we going to save at this point and it's a very difficult decision working in that area made me probably realize that I was human because I I remember I came home one night and I came home to an empty house I'd been gone for I think three days working on an operation and it was four in the morning and I came home and I was just like I have no one here right now and all I need is somebody to give me a hug I don't need to tell them what I've seen I just felt like I needed some human reassurance that the world wasn't all bad and that was a life changing moment for me but yeah it's a privilege but it's a necessity and it's real and it's horrendous and the people I work with are amazing we rescue a child and we say well done for all probably 10 seconds because we know there's another one and there's because it's something we do and we do it as a passion it's not our everyday jobs it's not the thing that's going to pay our mortgage and so you also have a fine ending to it you know I can only work these two weeks or I can only work and that's also super hard because you know that those two weeks are every week and every day and every hour and the police again their resources are caught and tied and so yeah it's a privilege but it's a very very sad fact of life that we even have to talk about it and even more actually do it that it exists at all absolutely the people that do this sort of thing they're barbarians and it's got to be so hard I mean you see this sort of thing it's a moral dilemma and like you said you have to make some tough choices too but the fact that you're advocating and you're making change it takes a village to make those changes and of course create the awareness so that there is maybe more money allocated to stop this kind of trafficking because there's so much money involved in it it's really hard to tear down because money means power and you've got that that you're fighting Nina you do so many different things and you've been such a tremendous champion and an advocate to make the positive changes that are needed as one person I'm really impressed with that how do people reach out to you you're currently doing private security do people just reach out to you to your company or how do they do that yeah I mean obviously we as nature of what we do we we're not like social media etc but yeah I mean now it would be a case of reaching out to Torchstone Global and and it's it's me Nina and and an amazing company and you know we we appreciate anybody reaching out to us in any way but if I can be a voice or I can make a change I don't think I'll ever stop and if that means you know what I want to do I'm getting old now so this this bodyguarding thing it's it's for the younger guys but you know I want to use every single experience I've had in my life the good the bad the ugly to continue to empower people empower women and to raise awareness to the issues that we should not be having to deal with and and however I can do that and thank you again for having me on the show because it that means a lot however I can do it anyone can ask and suggest please do because I never want to stop and I now want other people to be able to use my experiences to to move forward with their own well I would imagine your knowledge could really make some serious changes if people are trying to do some of the things that you did many years ago making changes in the police force any of these things we need people like you to make the positive changes people talk about it all the time but they don't necessarily do something and a lot of times they don't know who to contact so you'd be a good person to ask how do I make changes I saw this what do you think Nina is this something I should be concerned about and where can we make some changes this is going on in our backyard because that's how the changes are done and you're a good resource for people wanting to make that change yeah and I will help anyone wherever I can and a lady said to me yesterday um and I think I might start this as a as a campaign what would Nina do and uh she actually sent me a post-it note and said she was having a moment and what would Nina do and uh that that really resonated with me because um hopefully I'll be able to help people moving forward with whatever changes are whatever they are um if you're passionate about something do it even if you even if you can't make a change try please because you never know for me one person making a difference rescuing one child seeing a rapist go to court for one person because I had raised an issue about how evidence was collected that's that's making a change yes it is and if everybody does it the change is huge it does it takes a village and it takes one person at a time to do it if we all advocate for that it makes all the difference in the world Nina I love what you're doing is there a particular website people could reach out uh no I'm well torched on global um we have a website at um obviously we're we're corporate security but we look after everybody and it's the the most amazing company of people as you would see but um any anything through there um AVG management um actually is is my daughter so she will always pass anything to her mom I drive her crazy I think at this point because she was like okay I'll I'll get I'll pass it you um but yeah I'm available if people want to reach me um they certainly will be able to um or via you obviously so um yeah this has been wonderful talking to you Nina you're a real inspiration and you've made a lot of change you really have made such impact on so many people you know I I hope so um I really really hope so I I'm passionate about everything that I believe is is right and I'm I'm not always right obviously but justice is my is my thing and it was instilled from a very young age by my mom uh who sadly I lost um and uh yeah I I just I used the word earlier and I I kind of feel like I'm a warrior of justice and I actually just a side note that no one knows I actually have a warrior in morse code tattooed on my arm so oh how cool so yeah that's who I feel I am and uh that's who I'm gonna continue to be so it's appropriate you're on the show women road warriors I don't know what morse code warrior I looks like but that's pretty neat thank you Nina this has been terrific my pleasure we hope you've enjoyed this latest episode and if you want to hear more episodes of women road warriors or learn more about our show be sure to check out womenroadwarriors.com and please follow us on social media and don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on our website we also have a selection of podcasts just for women there are a series of podcasts from different podcasters so if you're in the mood for women's podcasts just click the power network tab on womenroadwarriors.com you'll have a variety of shows to listen to anytime you want to podcasts made for women women road warriors is on all the major podcast channels like apple spotify amazon audible youtube and others check us out and please follow us wherever you listen to podcasts thanks for listening you've been listening to women road warriors with shillie johnson and kathy tocaro if you want to be a guest on the show or have a topic or feedback email us at s johnson at womenroadwarriors.com