Tony Dixon

This is an I Heart Podcast. Guaranteed Human. I'm being money! We are Take Take a round of chat We are The authorities On all things I'm being Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Tank. I'm Jay Valentine. And this Come on! It's the Army Money Podcast. Ah! The authority On all things Are in there. Get out now. Get out of the chopper. Get out and go get to the chopper. My friend is here now. We've done a lot of work together. A lot, a lot of work. A lot of good times. What? Studio outside of studio. Hey, boss. People living. Yeah. Lifting way. Hey, yo. Hey, yo. Hey, yo. Ladies and gentlemen. It's a family member. I'm trying to do a really cool introduction. But this is my nigga. Hey, listen. We thought all that out the way. Ladies and gentlemen, my friend and your friend, y'all. Mr. Tony Jackson. Yeah! My dog. My dog. Yes, sir. This is, yeah. Yeah, this is me, you know. Nick is no with this, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you feeling brother? Yeah, I'm great, man. You know, I love being with y'all, man. I mean, we always talk off the microphone. You know, we always work and party. You know, outside of the camera work. Yes, sir. We thought it was important that the people, you know, the people got to see it and feel it. And know what it is. Thank you, Stan, what it is. You know what I'm saying? Thank you. You don't do a whole lot of talking. You know, you don't do a whole lot of, uh, uh, propagating. I don't match. I like that word. I like that word. What? Propagate. It works. So well. Uh-huh. It's, it's, it's, it's, not getting it. No, I can't get it. No, no, no, you can't get it. Propagate it. And it's a lot more than one. Propagate it. Propagate it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, as you reason off the problem. I don't know. You don't do none of that. No, no, no, no. No. You just get to the chicken. What the work itself, the work. What they say to work, Sally, so. That's it. And Tony Dixon, you are a product of work selling it self. Yeah. You have to say, you didn't have to say nothing to be in these rooms. Yeah. In these sessions. Yeah. In these places. They say, well, why don't we get Tony Dixon? Yeah. Thank you, bro. Yeah. Thank you. Because he can do X, Y, Z, and X, X, T, U, V, W. You know, he can't spell these things. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell them. I can't spell the words I need. M-O-N-E-Y. Sandwich. Sandwich. Which. Which. Which. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever. I know. 25 plus years. Yeah, man. Of getting that phone call. Yes, sir. That's her, man. Congratulations. Thank you, bro. Thank you, man. I make a conscious effort to always do my best to get it. I make a conscious effort to always do my best to give God credit where it's to grow. And I know people more talented than me, more gifted than me, people that I assumed would be doing this longer and all those things. And I always make sure that I get from credit for everything that he's, the rooms he's put me and the friends he's giving me. Yeah. You know, because some of the things I've gotten to do, you can't script this stuff, bro. Like, you couldn't, I couldn't have imagined in my wildest dreams that I get to work with some of the people I've worked with and built the friendships and relationships that I've gotten because of this thing called music, bro. Yeah. But we're going to talk about all that today on today on today on today. Yeah. We're going to talk about it, bro, because you have been instrumental in our lives and our careers. Thank you. Me and this man, bro, like you, we can't tell our story without Tony Dexter. Thank you, man. It does, it does not happen without you know, I'm saying like, nigga, I'm a kid. Yeah. That's it. She worked the trouble. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shit, that run up on me about all the time. When a young nigga ran up on me and said, man, my man, going, believe it, man, you, she worked the trouble. Yeah, sir, you know, I'm saying, you are, you are, you are, you are, I don't know how that even makes it up, man. It does, though, but, yeah, but, bro, like, the things that you have been a part of in our lives, man, are really special and I just want to get, I want to start there, we're going to get back to there. Okay. But let's, let's get, let's start this thing off in Denver. Yes, sir, because one you want the only niggas. I know from Denver. Yeah, you and big John. Yeah, I like to Okay, I know from Denver. There's more like I don't know. Chelsea. Johnson. I know chance. I know chance. I know yeah, yeah, chances my dog. We've been friends since we were 14 years old. No way. Yeah, I know Chelsea most of my life. That's why okay. Okay. Yeah, so I have so do all the black people in Denver know each other? No, there's way more than you think that's the problem like no, no, no, I went to Denver one cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering Yeah, it's, it's, it's that blend. Yeah, man, it's Denver actually was really important. Actually, too, there's so many people in Denver that actually were important to me even getting here and getting, there was it's your million, my career even happening. A lot of people don't know that I'd love to kind of shout out as we're even. Absolutely. Yeah, but like big John was, he's my first publisher, but I know big John since I was 14. Back in the day, people from Denver when I used to dance back then. So, wait, wait, what? Yeah, hold on, hold on. Here we go with this shit. Here we go. Yeah, yeah. Because I was always trying to step into my world. I'm here turning this evening. I'm here by trying to infringe on my, you know what I'm saying? My foot works. Yeah. I was a problem. Whatever. I was a problem. You know, it's whatever. But, okay. But yeah. I said, you know what? Three niggas. Damien Smith. Yeah. Smaller niggas. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, sir. Yeah, I go for getting my niggas for different man. Yeah, sir. Niggas, I know he could say, too. Yeah. He was an R&B group. Yeah. I was a problem. This, this, this. My mom has a footage locked up in her crib. But yeah, mama, we need that footage. We need it, mama. We definitely need to refer to this footage. Yeah, man. Yeah, I used to. In the pod. Yeah, I used to dance quite a bit and I've done stuff where I got to do stuff with hammer and all kinds of stuff back then. No shit, no hammer. Okay. Tony Dixon and MC Hammer. Okay, cut it out. Yeah. What'd you do with hammer? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you do with hammer? A, a dance. For what? Bro. Like we opened for his tour. It was, bro. It, it goes deep, bro. We did some stuff back then. What's the name of the dance crew? Is it a dance crew name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Was it my best friend William at the time? It was Romeo and Exorcist. See? Proper gave me. He didn't want to tell us that. Hey, he didn't want to tell us about Romeo and Exorcist. Bro, Romeo. Whoa. That was me. And I had it written in the back of my head. Like, it's a whole thing. Yeah. I'm at the fight. I'm going to find out this man was a stripper. You should go low. Jiggle. Little types of ho. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So yeah, I used to dance. And we don't get past the dancing. No, no, we don't. No, you brought it up. No, we should get past the dancing. No, you brought it up. Yeah. So I danced. And that was kind of my intro to music. But it was, I didn't know that producing was something that you could do with it. As a career. And, you know, I just thought it was a cool hobby. Fast forward. I kind of, I really got into the music side of it or creating music off of something that was considered really a tragedy. I lost my father. But my father passed in a car accident. And I didn't. For me, it was that blurry part of life where you don't know what you want to do and you become the man of the house and all these things. And it just so happened that my uncle had some keyboards that he would bring to the house because he ended up moving. And with us and help him take care of me and my brother. And I, once I found that in Sonic, EPS 16 plus, you couldn't. Yeah, bro, you could not tear me away from that thing. So I did it all the time all day. It was times where I'd get up in the morning and I'd start creating and I'd look up and it was dark. And you just, you know, and anybody that does me, you know, you've been through that stage. It's like, you just do it and you lose all sense of time and everything. And you know, you know, you're going to be like, you're going to be like, you're going to be like, you know, every time and every thing going, so I did it all the time and I got really good, really fast only because that's all I did. There were days I wouldn't eat. Yeah, same. I didn't know it. It didn't miss it. Yeah, like, my mom would come back, I guess come back from work. I guess, yeah, same, same, I didn't know, I don't know, yeah, I'm up so early, yeah, in my headphones, yeah, and, and making these beats and, and my mom would come, come in, in the evening, like, yeah, you eat? Like, yeah, I'm gonna eat in a minute. Yeah, I don't know what time I'm gonna say. Yeah, eight o'clock. Yeah. Same. You don't say. I was like, wow. I was like 150 pounds. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just making beats. Yep. Same. Same. Constantly creativity. I had to have it. Yeah, that's it, dude. I'd wake up because I'm, I sleep next to my, my keyboard. Same. So I would hear something in the middle of the night, but. Yep. Let me go ahead. Yeah. That's wow. Same. And I did it all the time, bro. It didn't get. Yeah. Didn't care. And did not care. That's all we do. And you get to, it was just addictive, man. And the fact that any emotion you was feeling, if you couldn't communicate it, you could create it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, if it was frustration, you could take it out on the keyboard. If it was love, Timberland drums. Let me bring on my timelapse for this frustration feeling. Yeah. Let me take it out on whatever the end. And so I just, I did it all the time. And same thing with like learning chords and stuff, because I started on drums in church. So that wasn't even my keyboard was in my first instrument. But I, once, when I did it all the time, I'd pull out my chords and I learned chord note by note. And then you realized that, especially in commercial music, one chord kind of leads to another. And then you start realizing that a bunch of songs kind of have similar chords and chord progressions. And, and you just start building your own thing. But I think you have to kind of start with music. You have to start with imitation first. 100%. And then you go into creation. So who were you in the beginning? Oh, I was Janilois and L.A. and Face all day. So that's a great, yeah. Yeah. That's how I learned. I would just learn how to start. I would take any of their records. And I would just, and it was great for me as a producer, because it taught me how to dissect the music. And you know, you create the music or whatever. And it's one thing to learn the chords, but it's another thing to like pick up the nuances of the music. Like, what does that sound underneath there that I don't quite understand what that is? Or that lead sound? Oh, that's what that is. And so I, I'd learn it to, I just learned how to dissect music like that, man. And so I did it again, like I said, I did it all the time. And it just became the thing that I just fell in love with. And you couldn't pull me away from it. And it was like the woman that was just going to stick with me the rest of my life. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's what I did, bro. When you said you said, but in sound like you could sample. Yeah. That's how I got samples. So on mine, I couldn't sample. So I had to like, I had to try to doctor the sounds that were in it to try and fit, you know, kind of fit into the space, sonically that I needed it to. I wanted it because my first was the Vante. Okay. Yeah. And then his baby face and then his template. Yeah. Yeah. Got it. So it's like, I wasn't saying, I didn't think of it. Yeah. But what I could do is I knew just how to manipulate the drums, just a little bit and tweak them frequencies, just to make the snare sound like. And I, and I only had nine tracks. Mm-hmm. Do you have some of those beats? I'm sure he does. I have the keyboard sitting at the house. I still have my keyboard. With the sounds and the whole, everything and everything. Yeah. And I already knew you. Yeah. He still has. Yeah. iPod. I sure did. Yes he does. Yes sir. You own the other hand. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, I know you got about 100 storages that you never went back to. I want from a sentimental standpoint. You know, I'm not like super sentimental in terms of holding things, right? But only thing I kept was that keyboard. Wow. That's the first one. Yeah. First one. Yep. I have my first keyboard in my first PC. It's like, it's like, yeah, my mom was paying a note for me because sometimes my church gigs wouldn't, yep, wouldn't cover the note. Yeah. So how much were those keyboards back then? Oh, it was like 13. Yeah. I mean, no. You had a teenager. Yeah. I got it. Yeah. In church too. I get the church. It was like, it was a PVDPM4 while everybody else was playing Corg, you know, saying it was on next level. And I was out. And it was like, what's that? Yeah. I was like, you're PV. And you carrying that around church. We sure are. I got a PV was my other keyboard. Um, XP80, yep. I remember the XP80, yep. And a double tier stand. Oh, you was one of them. And I'm in an amp. That's what it was. Okay. And an amp. Oh. And I was carrying a PVF, big 300. Oh, man. And I'm carrying an all of it in one, one, one rock. Have you seen the viral video of him? Yes, of course. I said it too. I was like, is this? One keys. Yeah. He's having the time of his life. Yeah. No worries in the world. No idea I'm being stelted. Oh. Oh. At all. Whoa. It didn't even matter. It's that idea. It's for the Lord. It's for the Lord. It's for the Lord. It's for the Lord. That's what I thought. Right. Oh, man. Cut to win. I got a deal. I got a deal. I got a deal. I really got a deal. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. You perfecting your craft. Yes, sir. You obviously is playing in church. In your mind, when does it click for you that says, oh, I can make this a career for myself in Denver? Does that start in Denver? No, it actually starts when I got to college. So I went to Hampton, shout out to H.I.U. My dog, yeah. Come on, man, my brother graduated too, man. You've done so much. Yeah. That I haven't done. You're so much better than me. I didn't know you were this good. Oh, my God. Hey, where's the phone? I'm going to call the police. I knew it was good, man. Move, move, move. Move, move. Oh, man. Oh, my God. But yeah, so fast forward. I get to buy the grace of God. I get to Hampton. And I take all my gear with me. And that's when I realized this could be a real thing. And the reason is because, at that time, especially, Teddy was it. So Teddy Riley was the guy. He was God. Everybody wanted to be around him. And so for me, I got to meet him first. He was my first real big intro to the industry because Black Street and Guy and them used to rehearse at our musical. And so I got word that he was around. And he'd be there at night and be rehearsing. So I stuck it out one night and came again the whole way. Great place to rehearse. Man, when you're Teddy Riley. When you're Teddy Riley. And his collar. Right. And you know what I mean? And see the roughshaker. Right. You know what I mean? So yeah, it was that. So yeah, so that's when I realized it's like, OK, me watching him made me see like this could actually be a viable career. Because my mindset at the time was really, when I was in Hampton was, I'm going to do everything I have to do to please my mom. My mother was really adamant about me going to a HBCU. And because of all she had been through it, I was my whole thing was if I got a graduate to make her happy. So let me do it. That's all I'm going to do. And so I'm not that way to this day. My mother, I do whatever I have to to make sure she's happy. So that's how I was thinking at the time. And so my degree, I was actually going to school for business management and then to do a music. But while I was in school, I started seeing Teddy and those guys around. And that, you know, through him, I got to meet who ended up being the Neptune's and Devonté and Timberland, all those guys were out there. Because everybody was in Virginia at the time. And everybody was pretty much centered around Teddy. And me and Rodney Jerkins back then too, because he was 16. And they were calling him like the 16 year old. Yeah. Blah blah blah. So. But that's when I realized that this could be a serious career. And so I was like, OK, now I got to figure out a way to make sure that I can do this for real for real. And I took it a lot more seriously. And so it went from just creating demos and, you know, just working on beats, whatever. And I was like, I got to learn how to really write songs and create songs. And not just shopping beats to people, because I started to realize even then, my whole thing was, I never wanted to have to be the type of creative that had to rely on somebody else to get stuff done. Yeah. You know, that was a worse thing to me. Like, I know I'm not a singer and all those other things. But it was like, OK, if I want a guitar player, and I can't afford a guitar player, I can't find one that does what I hear in my head. Well, let me figure it out on a keyboard. Kind of like what you were doing. You know, if I needed to figure out how to, I wanted a bass line, let me figure this thing out. If I want to chord, let me figure it out. And then I would want to write songs. And nobody around me was writing what I heard in my head. So it's like, let me figure that out. And just dissect it and create it myself. And so God and His wisdom decided that this was the path I needed to make sure that I could do everything and create my longevity that I wanted anyway. Because you know that, like, the reality is, in this industry, you have to be able to pivot where you need it. No, we know. Boy. No, we know. You know, you know, you better figure it out. And so it's like, if whatever, when you get to that moment where you feel like you're doing isn't hot, you better figure out how to make it work. So you can continue to work. And so that's what I did. I learned a little bit of everything. If it was engineering, if it was mixing, if it was musicianship, if it was vocal producing, if it was writing, I want to make sure I could do everything. So I could pull it out of my tool belt whenever I needed it. And that's kind of how I just developed my career that way. It's just, let me do everything. So were you still dancing? No. I gave that up. Definitely gave it up. Definitely gave it up. That's all you run before. Wow. And it definitely didn't look like... Wow. Wow. Wow. It didn't look like I could do it. It didn't look like you. Oh, wow. Wow. Okay. That took a twist. I'm going to get back to the music. Right now. Because I have to... What I realized when you said Hampton, too, is that so many times that people, I personally know that went to Hampton. Chris Henderson. Yeah. And we were at school at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. We went to the same time. Yeah. I know that they went to Hampton as well. So you guys were all there at the same time. Same time. That's correct. And we kind of became the campus producers. You know, because anybody that can sing on campus would come to us. Yo, you're under spitten. Yeah. Can you do a truck ride? No, I do the female voice. Because you're doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Come on, man. Don't do it. Yeah. Come on, man. Don't do it. Yeah. Don't do it. Don't do this. Don't do this. That's so nice. That is so nice. Let's say, don't do it. That's so nice. Can you count how many EPs you've done? Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. I'm so glad you're here today. I did this thing called the quiet. So you know who a D-Moo Kalan is? Of course. It's my guy. So he went to Hampton, too. Okay. Yeah. Okay. And so I did his music drop for his radio show at Hampton back in the day. Oh, wow. Okay. It's called Quiet Star. Yeah. Yeah, D-Moo had the voice. Yeah. Now I know what you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. Yeah. So I have the music. I did his music for his show, Quiet Storm on 103. And all of that. It did. Of course it led to... Oh, that's so nice. Of course it did. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah. So yeah, it was great. Hampton was great, man. It was nothing like that. Because you think it's just like the cheat code, too. Like, you think it's like a play? Yeah. Because there's always a young lady who wants to sit next to you. You play the piano. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? I said. I watched you, Dick. It's my nervous. Yeah. Listen, that's just what the Lord of Law said this up. I didn't do it. It's not my fault. Nope. The Lord told my fingers. No. I can't ever believe you. But I didn't want it. Right. This is what you're just saying. So I was like, you know, bro, like... You can't have it all, Jack. No. No. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not cheering for that. I cheering for that. I'm not going to be a pro. When did it become our discovery on a pro level? So again, like shortly after that, after getting out of school, I moved back to Denver because you're trying to figure life out and don't know what to do or whatever. But I knew my goal was to get out here, to get it LA because I just knew you had to be here in order to get access to it. I ended up basically taking a slight turn or I ended up going and moving to Chicago. And so I lived in Chicago for a couple years. I was newly married at the time. And so I wanted to, you know, my goal was to get into the industry and I met a guy by name a Percy Beatty who a lot of people in the music industry know as a gospel legend. I believe I could fly, right? Yeah, you sure did. And a lot of stuff for the times of community choir. And that's why I know him from a nation. Yeah, that was him. Yeah, Percy's, he's like my big bro, man. So I met him literally out here at the NAMM show one year. I came out for one of the, you know, the NAMM show. I've never been. Yeah, you fired. I would be in there lost, but I'm a go. Yeah, you should go. I'm a go though. Yeah, it's fire. It's fire. So this particular one, I met him and I sang, played him some records and he was like, I'm thinking about putting this team together. You want to move Chicago? I was like, absolutely, let's go. You want conversation? Yeah, because you know, that's the thing like, especially coming from Denver, nobody does what I didn't have a blueprint. Nobody I knew did what I was trying to do. And there was anybody that I felt like had access to getting me closer to this industry. I was like, you're right. Yeah, there was no question. I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to get there was no doubt. So Percy was like, yo, why don't you, you know, consider moving to Chicago? We're going to put this team together. I would love to work with you and develop. I was like, absolutely. And I knew that he had worked with our Kelly and that stuff at the time. So I was like, anything again to get closer to the industry out there to do this on a professional level. I wanted to do it. So, end up moving out there. And then again, by by God's divine timing, end up meeting Smoky Norfolk. That's how we met. Just end up meeting Smoky because Smoky was also being courted by Percy. Okay. Same with Kevin Randolph, who you guys know. Yes. I'm. Yes. I met all of them at the same time. He was basically putting a team of producers and writers together in Chicago. And so turns out Smoky just got married at the same time that I did. And so and we randomly moved out like way out to the outskirts of Chicago. We both run the suburbs. Kind of like that money. Yeah. Yeah. That money last. I stretched it out. And so we ended up, but he became my brother, man. And we did everything together. And like when it came to creating music. And he was an assistant pastor at the time with this other church. And so I started going to his church. Percy was the music director there. Oh, wow. The whole thing. Yeah. So we got access to everything and production-wise and music. And same with, you know, meeting our Kellyanne, working with him and that whole thing. And so it was amazing, bro. But that's when I was like, okay, I actually can do this for real. And I'm getting paid to do it. Yeah. This is going to be. I was going from the church to the church to the church. To the church. Yeah. What was the first place? Oh, God. It might have been Marvin Sapp. Yeah. It's something about Marvin Sapp. I can't even name that song. Won't let go. I think is what it was called. Yeah. Yeah. And you did that when you were in Chicago. I'll do that in Chicago. Okay. I'll do that in Chicago. And so. And going from there. I started working. You know, I find out that smokey's like this incredible singer. Because I didn't know. He didn't sing around me like that. I was just like, this dude's cool. And he's like, you know, family to me. And so coming to find out this dude is incredible. I'm like, who's saying like this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had no clue. And so. And I heard him one Sunday and he's tearing the roof off the church. Yeah. This before record deal and before people knew him and all that other stuff. And I'm like, bro, you didn't ever tell me. He was like, he's what I do. And so. Long story short, we, we both kind of were going through our frustrations with the industry and things not kind of working out the way we wanted to. And he came to me and he was like, bro, let's, let's just start creating some music. Let's see where it goes. You know, I'm, we're both frustrated and trying to figure it out. And that's what we did. So literally the beginnings of what ended up being I need you now for that whole album. We started in my apartment in Chicago. And so we even, even recording that. He didn't have a record deal at the time. So we flew back to Denver to a friend of mine's crib on a buddy pass to record that stuff. Which I, that I do have the footage too. But so we recorded that. We record one of the songs I ended up doing the song called it's all about you. We recorded that in my friends studio in Denver. Again, we flew on a buddy pass to go and record it. And the same would still got to say thank you. That's like my, my family singing the, they're acquiring that song. So I called my cousins and literally anybody I knew in Denver that sang. I was like, yo, I got this kid smoking or food. And it's, let's work. So that's, that, and it's still with on the album. All those same people on that album. That's great. That's when I realized like, okay, I can do this for real. But my mindset was also the frustration I had with Chicago was it had the most incredible musicians. But I didn't want to be limited to the church culture. I kind of feel like for me, where, what I heard and where, because coming from Denver, you, you're, you're fed all kinds of music. Denver doesn't have a sound or anything like that. You got everything. Right. But I also knew that because that's what I wanted to do. All I wanted to do was all kinds of music. And I didn't want to be limited to just doing gospel or limited to doing R&B or limited to doing anything. I was like, I just wanted to do good music or what was good to me. And so that's really what stem me, steered me to move to LA. It was like, okay, well, now that you've gotten through placements, you've gotten a little bit of where you got access. Let's just try to figure out a way to take it up. So how long do you stay in Chicago? Only about two years. I was only there about two years. And so from there, while we're like after we recorded, Smokey goes and gets a record deal. So I find out after I leave, I need you now does what it does. The album takes off. He's incredible and all the other things. But to tie back to what we were talking about at Denver, so Silas White, who's a great friend of mine. Wait, Silas from Denver? He's from Denver too. Yeah. No Silas is from Denver. Yeah, I didn't either. Yeah, I was going to name him for you. Help you out. We're going to have Denver education today. Man, they got no alcohol. Yeah, man. Yeah, man. Yeah. So I talked to Silas and Damien, who again, I've known Damien since I was a teenager. And he was in a group, but he had another good friend of mine, a guy named Anthony Nance, who was an incredible producer and so on. Producer, yeah. Yeah. So all of those were guys that I grew up around and watching and, you know, studying because they were the ones who were really tied to the closest I had seen tied to the industry. The industry. Yeah. But when I met with, I was talking with Silas about my frustrations with Chicago and he was like, man, you should just come out to LA, see what you can do. And at the time, he was managing, he was handling road man with a brining. Right. Yeah. And so he was like, you should just come out here. I'll connect to a Brian. You guys can work and let's just see what can happen. Same thing. Same mentality I had with Chicago was to move to LA. I was like, absolutely. Immediate. I'm out. I'm out. For me, I had to, I was now married. So I had to deal with the commitment of making sure I had a responsibility for my wife and then also wanted to make sure I was still doing this career that I love. Yeah. So I took a, I was working a temp job in Westwood. What were you doing? I was an account manager for this insurance company. Nice. Yeah. It was, it was a means to an end, bro. It was the worst. It was the worst. But it paid to bills. Yeah. And so what I would do is, even before she moved out to LA, I was making sure that I would do my job and then sometimes at night, I was sleeping in my car to save money to make sure that I could, you know, we had the deposit for an apartment and all things. I was doing it all. He's grinding. I was grinding, bro. And so, and even when I would get a hotel or whatever, I would go stay at the motel right by the airport, spend $30 a night just to change and clean and go back to work. And then I would go from work where I'd get up at like three o'clock and then I'd drive from like Westwood all the way to Glendale where Brian Studio was at the time. And I would do that five days a week and I'd work with Brian, I'd get to work with Anthony, I'd work with whoever. Just again, get me in this industry. Let me figure it out. Let me figure it out. Right. Because at this point, you didn't, you're early 20s. Yeah, I'm early 20s. About 25, 26. Yeah. So it was like, let me figure it out and let me send it money home. Literally. Wow. Yeah. I was like, I wanted to make sure that I could, you know, I wanted to make sure I handled my responsibility, but I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that I was going to do this. No matter what. And so. That's what I did, man. I did it all the time and that's when I kind of really got introduced to the idea of publishing. It's like, okay, well, let me figure out a way to get out of this job first. And the intro, the idea is gospel not pay, you know, what? Let me, you know, I'm just going. I'm a mama secular business man. See? Because I'm going to run down on you by my publishing. It does. It does. Okay. It's all right. Okay. It does. Yeah. It just didn't for me at the time. Okay. But, but he had definitely can. But that was my thing, man. I just wanted to make sure I could do this thing all the time. And so, again, big John at the time when I was growing up was a DJ in Denver. A lot of people don't know that. Yeah. He was like the kid, Capriot Denver. Every party he threw, I was dancing. You can check, you can credit check that one. Okay. But I would show up and perform, you know, are you the performer? I get to be at his parties and stuff like that. And so by then I find out big John is this big publishing guy. And I'm like, he's what? But yeah, he, I find out, you know, all these important things he's doing in the industry. And so I reconnect with him and I'm. Have the whole field like this is what I want to do. Same thing. Play me some music. I played him some stuff. He ends up getting my first publishing deal. And my goal at the time was like, okay, let me get a publishing deal that's equivalent to what I'm making as a salad. Yeah. Yeah. If I can do that, I quit. I quit. I quit. I quit. Literally. And that's where my first publishing deal was $50,000. I was like, and that first check came, look, I don't need a letter of reference. I won't see y'all ever again. I'm out. Peace. And so I knew it the day and back then they used to give you half up front. Of course. And then the month, the rest and a monthly stipend. So you get, yes. Yes. I didn't get my monthly stipend either. I never got to get one. What's my MDR? The C was met. Oh, that's when you got your, then you got your rest. Yeah. But once the MDR, C was met for that first term. You got the back and the front of the man. Of the new. You got the ooey. Yeah. Yeah. You got that ooey. I was killing it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think John just knew how irresponsible I was back then. So he made sure that my, yeah, he looked out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think John was part of my first one. See? He am I right? That was my first. See? And so they, they had to change the rules. Hmm. He was a real changer for me and our Kelly. Why? Because you get to run and do those deals. Because we could get it all off and one album. Got it. Wow. And so that's where the thresholds start. Oh. You got to sell the other rules on this dude. You got to sell this many for this many to count. And you sell this many and then this many will count. Got it. I was running. They said, look here, champ. We're going to. Hey, what are you used to be? You got to. Oh my God. I was going to say you got us. Oh, so do you go when you do your, when do your publishing deal, you're already writing and producing with rhyming night at this point. So are you, so just so for people that understand how this business works and how it used to work, especially when you first come on though, are you just, are you a session musician? Yeah. A drum programmer. All the above. You're not a producer. I'm not a producer. I'll tease the producer. Yeah. He's a producer. And honestly, I did not care. Right. At that time, my whole thing was I'm in the room. And I also knew that I knew that my time was going to come and eventually the gift I had would showcase when it was necessary. But I also knew I was also, I was always self aware. So I, I understood if a major artist came in and there was decisions to be made and I wouldn't know what to do, then I'm not ready. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. And at that time, that's production. That's production. Yeah. Decision making. That's all it is. It's decision making. It's about you choosing. You have infinite choices and let's narrow this thing down and let me go ahead and commit to a decision that works for this record. And at the time I didn't know that, I was just like, you know, I just knew whoever came in the room and I was excited that they got in the room or that I'm in the room with them. And it came time for those game time decisions. It's like, I want to make sure I'm making the right one and I want to make sure that I'm okay with my decisions and, you know, if there's changes that have to made, am I really cool with that? And I'm okay with things not working out. Yeah. Or we have to go back and do it again. Right. I really wasn't ready. I thought I was, but I really wasn't, you know? Yeah. So, that's what that era taught me was like, this is how you get ready for real. Like you have access to all the celebrities and all that stuff, but make sure when you're in the room that you can deliver on the dime because that's what you have to do, you know, you got to be able to come in and show improve right on the spot. So, when you do your, your in my deal with big John, you don't have any pipeline. No. He did a one song deal for me. My deal was for one song. My MDRC was one song. Oh, yeah. He loved you. Yeah. One song. Yeah, he was a thousand dollars. And again, it's a God thing. You can't, I can't script that. I wouldn't have known that at the time, you know what I mean? But it was, it was, that was what I needed. It was, this is how I can quickly get through my deal. It's not going to overwhelm me. It's not going to be in a, I'm not going to be a situation where I'm in debt to them forever. Right. All things he could have done if he really wanted. For sure. You know, to your point, he looked out, man, and he made sure he got me right where I was and helped mentor me through that phase. And that's how I met Harold Lillie, who was literally my second session in LA after signing with him. Me and Harold became close friends right after that and Warren Campbell and Rodney and all the things. Yeah, it all happened right then. Because the publishing deal solidified you. It's solidified me. And I was like, this is my new writer at EMI. Yeah. Other than, oh, this is this guy who just came from Denver. Right. Or just got it just, he even used out Chicago. Right. Yeah. And I think people don't understand, especially those sessions were not easy to get into. No. Bro, like major sessions that are literally for major recording artists. Mm-hmm. That is just not an easy feat. No. And having a publishing deal solidifies you. They did. People be like, oh, okay. Oh, big jobs like that. Yeah. All right. At least got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how it goes. Yeah. And I was like, I'm sorry for John was, again, I knew how important he had become and might go with to make sure I made him proud. Make sure I wanted to make sure that he looked like his decision wasn't even a gamble. Right. It was just like he just happened to see it ahead of time. He knew it. And that's why I told him that. I was like, I just want to make sure you know that. That's real vision. Yeah. Because I would give you 50,000. Yeah. If I knew what she's going to turn his to. Damn. I gave you that. No. Shit. It worked out. Yeah. And that's what I wanted to take that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that I know what that is. Yeah, you know that in sync out with us. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He got his plaque though. I don't have mine. Yeah, whatever. But whatever. I told my man's and them to eat and eat your dead in your pee pee. Yeah, I hooked up. My bro was with him, you know, justified tour. And that's when I met Justin. This is fair. That makes sense. He was like, I love your music. You're dope. And so I got that. Did that simplify you? I think so. I did. I did. Oh, man. Yeah, so that's, you know, work with Brian because, you know, back then he was. Oh, yeah, he was a standard. Everybody wanted a briming night. Yeah, literally. So I got, you know, I end up getting access to working with Justin. We did a lot of stuff that ultimately, again, to your point, I really wasn't ready as a producer. But that's what led to the justified project. Yeah. Because he came to me after we did the in-sync stuff and he and I created a cool bond. And he was like, you know, with me, him and Anthony at the time, Anthony and Nancy was like, why don't we all get together and let's create some stuff and see where this goes. And I was like, absolutely. So we started creating records for him. And at the time, he was dating Brittany. So I got access to Brittany. Yeah. So that's how that worked. And then he was like, okay, I got this session coming up with these guys called the underdogs that I've heard about. You come to the session with me. Same thing. Absolutely. Let's go. So go and, you know, ultimately they ended up with a record called Still on My Brain on that project. Yeah. Yeah. I was at that session. So I got to meet them and that's how we built the relationship and so on and so forth. Everything was just like, you know, just connecting. Just connecting. So from that introduction, it comes back around and, yeah, I do shit that could have would have for Brian. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's how really, so I was your first underdog record. Yeah. That's not the first underdog record. So I'm working with, you know, with Damon and Harvey and everything's going really well. I'm starting to get activated how they work and so on and so forth. And Silas is still working with Brian. And I still have a relationship with Brian. Yeah. It's like, yo, let's bring this back over here and get this particular sound and let's work on Brian's stuff. And so that's what happened. We ended up doing shit that could have would have. And a lot of the records at the time. But that's really what started to build my relationship with them and my confidence too in regarding to in regards to, okay, I now understand how to make the right decisions and how to, you know, make sure that my stuff signically is up to par with the radio and yeah, all of those, those things. And so that was really that was that part of school for me. Yeah. Just like, okay, I can do this and I'm not just, I'm not just a writer. I'm not just big John's writer. And now it's like, okay, I can actually produce a record. Let me finish some stuff out. So I just built my confidence that way. And, you know, and it's not just gospel or whatever. You know, it's like, no, I'm not going to do it. I'm having some commercial success. I figured this thing out. Pop, arm, everything. I feel like during this journey or getting up to this point, you know, we got it, we should talk equipment. Yeah. Because, you know, there were there were progressions. And there were changes in terms of what you were starting to use to produce. Can you just kind of take me through those progressions as you are en sonic and then when you finally get to get to LA and you work with Brian, what are you using there? And then when you finally get to the underdogs, what are you using there? Can you take me through those progressions? Yeah, absolutely. So when I started, like you said, I had the EPS 16 plus and I had a TS 12. From my first two keyboards and then fast forward, I ended up saving enough money to get an MPC 3000 and the core Trinity, core Tram and the Nordally Nordally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a problem in the streets. Yeah. So it went to it went from that to, you know, now I say thing, I got my double tiers and my whole thing and I got my little setup. And so that's really what I carried all the way up through meeting with Damon Harvey. So I brought it in PC over there. They had that they were on the same thing. And I was like, okay, this is works, this works whatever, but I was like, I ended up building a relationship with the guys at Ensonic. I mean, at, um, you imagine you imagine you just made a logic from them from them from them from them. Yeah. So I built a relationship with the guys from, uh, you magic at the time and they had this program called logic college. College, yeah. And pretty sure you got me my logic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I already knew how to work pro tools because of those sessions I had already been doing because that's kind of like the industry standard for studios. But once they showed me and gave me access to logic, I was like, okay, I'm going to figure this thing. Same thing. I'm going to figure it out. And so I spent all my time just learning how it works and realizing that, okay, I can actually create everything I want quickly, quickly, very quickly and instant recall, which is the problem you have with having the equipment because with the equipment, if you have hardware, if you, if I, if like you came to steal and say, I need you to pull that record back up. Well, now I got to go back and remember what sounds we use and the MIDI and, yeah. And so you lose a lot of time just trying to remember if you didn't chart it out or write it out, you're, you're, you know, dealing with a lot. And if you've tweaked the sound and didn't save it, you know, so for me, that was all, that was my logical side saying, no pun intended, but that was me saying up there like, this is how I can, I can be more efficient in what I do, especially now because we're starting to do a lot of records back to back. And I wanted to make sure that I understood. I don't have, that's not the part I want to have to focus on, I want to focus on creating. And so that's what made me get into logic was like, okay, again, when you came into the studio, it was like, if we're going to work with Tank, I got to make sure if he likes a particular idea, I can pull it up right away because I know him, I know how quickly you wrote, I know how quickly ideas came to you. I don't have time to be doing this to sort it out while you're trying to create it. If you already got the idea in your head, I want to be able to go and I want you to be able to go. So that's what it, to me, what the equipment thing was, is like figure out a way to get out of the way so that the creative people can be able to get out of the way. Yeah. So the creative can do what you do, man, like, I don't know if y'all have gotten to see this guy work, but like, it's unreal to watch Tank do what he does in the studio because he doesn't write stuff down. Right. There's only a couple of people I know to do. You and Arkely didn't do the same, but like, there's only a few, but like they would get in and have the idea in the head and just go into booth and knock it out. And when I realized that level of skill, I was like, yo, the only rat can keep up with you is to make sure that I'm giving you what you need when you need it as quickly as you need it. Yeah. Again, let me get out of the way. If he's got the idea in his head, let him record so that, you know, by the time you get in the booth, if the equipment gets in the way of the creation process, then you could lose the idea or it could go, you know, you could lose the energy, something else could happen, whatever. And I just never wanted to be that. So how long? So once you get into this logic thing, how long does it take or, you know, what spawns the Damon Harvey saying, yeah, we got to do what he does, whatever he does. We got to do it. Exactly what I just said. I don't remember artists or whatever, but I remember a particular, I do remember artists coming in and exactly what I said would happen. An artist would come in and I'd have three or four ideas and I could pull up right away. Yeah. Just need to lay this. Right. Yeah. How'd you, yeah. And I'm like, yeah, cool. You can do this. And I'm like, okay. And they never like, well, but the, that was the whole thing at the time. Well, the drums don't slap his heart. Is that it? And I'm like, okay, fine. Let me sample those drums. Give me that stuff that you have in the NPC. Just make some kits out of it and watch how it worked. And that's what I would do. So I made kits for the stuff that we had and I was like, now pull it up and see how quickly you can work. And it just became, then it clicked for them. It's like, oh, you can, everything you want to do in hardware, you can do in DAW if you just take the time to learn it. To learn it and execute it. And it's just gotten better and better. Now, there's no line between hardware and unless you just have to be a tactile learner and you like to turn knobs and all that other stuff, then that's fine. But no artist, and nobody on the radio, there's nobody can tell what you used to create anything now. It can literally be done on the laptop. Absolutely. And I'm just grateful I stuck with it because to me, it made sense because it's like, again, I got to get out of the way. And I got to see what you do and what you, you know, do what you, and I got to participate. So I'm not spending my time learning chords or figuring stuff out. Like, no, I get to sit with Tank and we can vibe and talk and create and write and so on and so forth. They're sitting with you saying, like, we just sitting right and create. Like the one thing we could all say that when we got to create them, we never had technical difficulty getting in the way. Period. Yeah. You think we could think of, we could do it. We could get it done really fast. Really? It was, it was really cool for me, man. Like, I had met you actually before I met Tank. I met you. I come by the studio one day. I forgot where I was. Yeah, I think it was, I forgot where it was, but by this time, it was after I had left the first time and, but you know, there was still my guys and I'm holding up on them and I was like, yeah, that nigga talented. Yeah. The quiet nigga is really talented over here. And I'm listening to the music and this is around, you know, those, you know, that justified and the in sync and all that had happened for you. And I'm just paying attention and I'm just like, the Tony nigga talented. Thank you. And I would, you know, drop by, you know, I mean, just cool, listen to music. Damien, I'm like, man, come back here. I work with it. She got work with it. Yeah, I work with it again. I'm like, I want to add on that. And then my decision, like when it was fully like, okay, I'm rocking. It was when it was over on Coinga at the admins towers. And at this point, he was there. Yes. And Eric was there. Yes. And Lil' Steve was there. And now it was like, it was a problem. These niggas, it's co on top of what already we had established with Damon Harvey. It was like, for lack of a better time, it was Votron. No question. No question. It was literally R&B Votron at this point. It was really what I considered to be at that time was the R&B version of the Hitman. Yeah. Right, which the Hitman did R&B? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But we focused on R&B. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I just know, like everyone in here can write and produce. Yeah. And most niggas can sing. Yeah. Most niggas can play. Yeah. There were no holes. You know what I'm saying? Like, there were just, and let me tell you the part to me that was more important than that. There was no eagles either. No. Because all of us, we like each other. We like each other. Yeah. It was whoever had the best idea of the day. It was never like I had to have, if Tane showed up at the record or if you showed up, it was like, yo, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. lead singer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty to row. Yeah. It was like you ain't lead no room for loose. Yeah. He hurt to that person. No room for a little Steve. So true bro like. Oh my god. Yes. But yeah, that was that was it man. We because yes everybody was talented. But everybody also came in as a team player. Yeah. And so it was not about try. It was about all of us winning. And to me, there's nothing like that's what I enjoyed most about that experience is that it was to me, it would have been no good for a record from me to shine and not be able to share it with him. Yeah. And or to go to an award show and not be able to yell, what are we wearing? Or you know what I mean, because we all participating. I look at that as like I look at Damon is like a general manager. Mm hmm. He knew how to put the right people in the room. No questions, right? Yeah. And then Harvey was a great coach. No question, right? So looking at it in that structure, I'm like, oh, the niggas that were put in that room. Because there were a lot of people who came. Yeah. Who came by. Right. Is what I'll say. Right. But the guys who who like the core team of guys who worked for years together just really loved each other and really knew how to get the best out of each other musically. Like, you know, no question. I already knew when I would get there. Like, okay, if I got a certain idea, I'm a go in Tony room. I'm going to go on Eric. I'm going to go find tank. All right. You know what? I'm going to start this guys game on the pool table. And you know what I mean? Like it was just certain. It was just certain. It was just certain things were just where musically you could you couldn't go wrong in any room. No, you couldn't go wrong in any room. Yeah. Yeah, you couldn't man. And it was it was like it was such a we think it was like. Yes, very much. Yes. When something would start it would be like, it would be like this. What y'all doing? Yeah. What y'all doing? Get in here. Yeah. And then now you got seven niggas in a little room. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was like that was it was welcomed. It no question. It was do you y'all hear something? You hear something on this? What you think? What you think? Every time. Every time. Every time. And I think that was the that was the like you said, that was the gift. We can we can all say like historically speaking. That's why nice. I'm glad I'm grateful I kind of get to share this part of my story. But like what most of what I intended to happen in every particular place I went was not why God had me go. Hmm. Give what I'm saying. Okay. And so maybe what from from Chicago to Hampton to Denver being born and raised in Denver to being with Damon and Harvey to working with y'all like my intention may have been, okay, well, I'm going to go ahead and be this producer that gets to you know finally get to stand on my own this and the other. But I built brotherhood. I got to build relationships. I've we created some incredible music. And it became therapy. It became yeah. You know, because all of us was going through stuff. But we would all get to sit and talk about it or write songs about it. I wasn't really going through. No, I was. I was. I was older and white T's and Air Force one. Everybody. Hey, hey, hey, put your. Hey, put your order in. I got somebody that's going to cover get the money. They bring us back 500 white T's man. Don't worry about it. Yeah, man. Well, that's I get it. Yeah, you were. Yeah, well, I was. Yeah, you know, you feel me back here. Don't play Jay and base. No, you don't do it. Don't do it. You go walk away smiling. Just like this is what you do. Now I take them telling you I'm where you like that. All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's a gift. Yeah. I was again for the foolishness. You go loose. You go with a smile. Yeah. We just having a good time. Yeah. Yeah. You look because the other thing that I realized and at this point, right, I'm not even a manager at this point. I had never managed before at this point, but I realized time needed to be managed around there. Yeah. Because I will walk in the studio and I'm like, oh, it's three or four maybe artists waiting, waiting impatiently. Yeah. So yeah, Niggas might want to play video games a little bit. But we had to like start finding some shit for Niggas to do. Yeah. Yeah. Because to get in that main room, oh, yeah. Yeah. Could take three, four days for an artist. Sure. Sure could. So we have to find some activities. And I just knew some activities. Ta-da-da. It's happening ahead of time. It's something that I'm not. I'm not a bag on a man. I got the bridge. It's like just have a good time. I can slip on the 24 hours and get some hoop in. All of that, bro. All of it, bro. And I think when I look back at the time, man, it just it really, it really did build a brotherhood. No question. It built a brotherhood. But let's let's talk about the records though. Yeah. Let's do it. We talked about the brotherhood. Yes, sir. The records though, bro. We spoke about it earlier, man, for me, which was a later time. Actually, after the second time I left, when I go do my deal, and they asked me who I want to work with. And you know, me and Larry went through all, you know, the producers and I said, listen, I'm going back to the other dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I'm going, listen. Yeah. Yeah. Give me two weeks. Give me a week. Give me a, whatever it is. But my budget, support that's allocated toward going back to the underdogs and fucking with my partners. Yes, sir. And, um, and it felt good for me to go back and work with y'all. Yeah. You know what I mean? It really did. Yeah. Cause I want to say this was even before you do the sex loving pain album. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My deal was, my deal was before that. Yeah. And I was like, I just got to go work with my guys. Yeah. And the records that we came up with, man, like incredible. I was, I was really excited. Cause I had worked with everybody on that album, too. But I was just like, I'm going to end it with my guys. Yeah. And coming up with she worked with trouble, bro. And, uh, and should have been with you, which, me and Larry argued to this day about which record is better. Yeah. That both really good. I listen to should have been with you. The other day, I'm like, God. Yeah. Yeah. And this nigga Harvey got me singing with a angel. I'm like, Hey, no, man, I get a headache trying to hit those notes right now. Yeah, man. But I was just like, man, it's the music that we were able to create together, bro, was, was really special. Like, I mean, oh, Mariah. Oh, come on, man. Well, come on, take a, well, what we got, bro. I remember a weekend. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'll start weekend. Mm-hmm. And, and, and three people met up at the field. We're in each other like this. Get her done. To get her done. Let's get a head start. I'm sure they did. Yeah. And there came, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm trying to. I'm trying to. Yes, sir. Did. Yeah. I was like, listen, that was therapy for me. Me too. That session right there. Yeah. Got got my, my mental, mm-hmm. And my spiritual, mm-hmm back into the game. Wow. Wow. I didn't know that was cooked. I, bro, I get it. I get it. I was, I couldn't, I couldn't land nothing. Nothing felt right. Nothing sounded right. It was because of everything I was going through personally. Everything that I was going to personally had knocked me completely off my track. And that weekend, those two songs. Wow. That's good. Got me back in. Got me back in. Bro. Back. That makes me. Oh, back. Bro. I felt like myself. I felt, I felt better than myself. Yeah. Yeah. You know, me because then that's during the transition of coming, coming, getting to the underdogs, and to work with you guys. Mm-hmm. But now starting to learn so many new things. Yeah. You know, I mean, so, oh, the, oh, the old track is the last track I did on the NPC with my equipment. Yeah. And transferring all of that stuff into logic and having Harvey and Tony, looking maybe is, you got to cut it out, bro. Yeah. Yeah. You got, you got to get on. You got to get on. Just a little more second. I'm a good. Let me turn this now. Tony's like nah, nah, you got to, we got your sounds. I got everything for you. You got to move. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, I'm like, okay. Okay. So now I'm, I'm, now I'm really, I'm on a new learning curve. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Now I'm starting to, I'm starting to grow in a different way. Because I'm in a completely different space. I've never been in. Yeah. I've been around guys who worked on computers, made music in the computer, but I've never done it myself. Right. Right. So now I'm starting to, I'm starting to really need to be in his room. Yeah. Yeah. So we, what are you doing right there? Yeah. How did you drag that? Was supposed to come in for that? Yeah. What's, what's this? What's that? How do you set up your power ball to make sure? Oh, shit. That's crazy. Okay. Like I'm running from room to room. Like, like a kid in the candy store trying to learn all of these things. Yeah. But the way you, I remember very specifically, you came in with that tank smile. Like, I got one. You came with that. You was like, I got what? We got to sit down. That's what we did. We sat down. You, I remember you playing us the chorus to Oh, and I was like, yeah, he's got the single. Let's get to it. Yeah. He got to sing. I told, oh, I had a single. Yeah. He did before anybody heard it. I said, I got, I said, I got you, I got your record. No question. We'll take you from a boy to a man. Yeah. And that's the thing when you can write a record that is personal. Yeah. Yeah. For an artist. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause he and I clicked me for short. Yeah. Yeah. For short. Yeah. It was like, I met, met my long lost little brother. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just like, it was, he, he hope. Yeah. He super cool. He sing. He looked like me. He dance. He dance like you. He dance like me and Tony. Hopefully not like. He's wrong. Yeah. Yeah. You're gonna stop messing me in my knees. That's what I'm saying. He's the knees of God. So. They're correct. So it was all of that. Yeah. I'm looking at it and I'm watching them and I'm just listening. I'm listening to them sing. I'm like, I'm like, nah. Yeah. You're first year in a wrong key. You're right. I said, let's get you out of. Yeah. The stratosphere. Yeah. Yeah. And put you in man zone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Put you right here. Yeah. Your song needs to be called Oh. Yeah. Your Mario. Yeah. Mario. Yeah. Your word play on that. You make the girl say, Oh, yeah. But you say, he's like, dude, tank. I do. I do. I do. He goes sad. Then we can, bro. Yeah. You can't say it enough that we can change everything for me. Life changing weekend. Remember. That's what I said today. And then my first track track. Yeah. On on logic. Mm-hmm. That like real placement from logic. Mm-hmm. Nicky. Yeah. Wow. See? I'm telling you. I was like, I'm. Yeah. I'm him. Logic guy. Yeah. Yeah. I am logic. Yeah. But again, it's just like every other instrument or anything you've learned. Once you got through the muscle memory part and the technical side of it and you were able to get out of the way. Yes. And get back to creating. Then you're unstoppable. And it's not. It had nothing to do with your gift. It was just let me go ahead and get out of the way. So I created music. Yeah. He did. Swore by the NPC. That's how it goes. When you fall in love with something, especially something that's been good to you. Yeah. Yeah. You've had success with it. Yeah. Yeah. We have to keep talking about it because it keeps coming up. Yeah. This AI thing. Yeah. Right. Like we have to figure out how to utilize it. I'm sure it's not going anywhere. Right. You know, listen, I'm really a old nigga in music years. Right. I'm about a thousand years old when it comes to music. Yeah. And so I remember two inch days. I remember. You know what I mean? Yeah. The machine. The machines, bro. Yeah. Yeah. Like so you couldn't have told the producers of yesterday year. Right. What this was going to become? No. Are the writers in it? You know, I mean, so it's like it was the same argument back then. I mean, it was going over to pro tools. I was just, well, where's my master? Right. So certain guys were like, well, I'm a steal, run my pro tools through the board. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. I remember that. Right. I get it. That was my right. That was lie. Right. And now it's like you got world renowned mix engineers, sound crafters that are completely in the box. Yeah. In the box. Yeah. The one thing I've learned about especially surviving in today's industry is our goal has to be able to make better music faster. Period. We don't have a choice now whether you choose to use AI as a tool or not. That's up to you. But the reality is is the consumption is so quick that we have to create music that again, we have to make great music faster. And to me, you got to figure out the tool that get you out of the way the quickest so that you can do the music that you want to do. And if you're a hyper creative like me and like both of us are, it's like all three of us are. It's like you have to figure out ways to get out of the way. And for some people, this is my only issue with AI has to do with the verbiage. I think the reality is is that we have to stop saying that I wrote something when you didn't write it. Right. 100%. I'm saying I'm agree. Yeah. If you can't say, you can't say you wrote something that you prompted. But there have been pretenders since the beginning of time. Very true. Very true. There's that. That's very true. There's that. There's people taking credit. There's names on projects that should not be there. Very true. Very very. And this right here is no different. Very true. Very true. It's just not an actual person. That's very true. Right. And I still think that nothing can replace human ingenuity and creativity. So if you choose to want to use that as your thing, fine. But I guarantee there's nothing like getting us in the room together to create music. Absolutely. The AI will ever touch. In my artist standpoint, like when I walk up, walk up on you and sing in your face. Yeah. You be walking up on people singing. They say, they think it's high breath in these titties on you. Oh my gosh. Yeah. She knows. No, no, no. She know them. She's impressed me. Man. What? Get out of there, man. You saw five heartbeats 100,000 times. Yeah. Put that body on her. Got up on her. You know how I got that? And now I do that. And welcome on her. That's my eyes. Scrammin. That's taking nice. That was so nice. Another record I have to bring up is if I don't why you hear I do. They'll crucify me. Yeah. How could you? Yeah. How could you? How could you? What a great record man. I got that couple days. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was hanging out and ran chill. Kukumaga. Yeah. That was also the problem with having that level of talent in a small space at a small amount of time. You never knew the day an incredible life changing. You had to go everything. You had to be there. You had to be there. Yeah. Okay. I say what my schedule. Oh, actually, you know what, before we get to discuss that record though. I never forget us. We all in there. Right. Everybody's, you know. And I had this moment where I thought of what babyface had told me years ago. He was like every song has to have something that makes you remember it. Right. Something it could be ridiculous. It could be, you know what I mean? And I learned that from him from him writing Drew Hill when he says swallow you like Reese's pieces. Got it. Come on girl. You know, I need it. Yeah. And I thought it was the worst ever. Right. But you said that and I realized like, no, it's actually the greatest. Yeah. Because it's it's so relatable. He's comparing her. A woman loves to be compared to something. Something. Yeah. I mean, especially something sweet. Was that his verse? Drew Hill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm Reese's pieces. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. Jazz is a single one. Fuck it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, blood. But I remembered that. And while we're in there, right? I'm like, and I tell the story before you know, you know, the at that time, that was a thing. Like Commissusia was the thing everybody was talking about. Yeah. I think the last 12. I'm gonna sit in the style. In it for 12. And it was like all the conversations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I just put the ghetto. Yeah. And you nailed it. And how he was like, man, what is that? What is that? What is that, buddy? That buddy. The ghetto. It would be a never. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, comma. Yeah. Yeah. It's my reason. Oh, yeah. For a little cool. Light on the man. Yeah. No, we got to do. But yeah. Record, bro. It was and it was the song that floated around the floor. Yeah. Where niggas was like, nigga, you heard how could you? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just get played for everyone who walked up in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nagan once Mario got a hold of it. It was over. It was another record that becoming a man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the crazy thing about even doing how could you and naked and own all that other stuff. I feel sorry for those artists because they had like you demoed O. Eric demo. How could you? Like, if I'm an artist and I can't step up, like that had to be intimidating. Like, yeah. Well, you know, they killed it though. Yeah. They did. They did. They make sense. And the beauty in that was you had a guy like Harvey. Yeah. Who could get you there? He could get you there to that love. Great. You get your picture. I used to love when he said this. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. I ain't got to sing it another. No. Cool. I trust you. Yeah. I trust you. And he would get it. No, we got to take people. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I told him this repeatedly. I think he's an amazing finisher of a record. Yes. That's how I learned to. So I knew how to produce. Right. Right. I knew how to produce. Yeah. That wasn't a problem. Yeah. But the extra gloss at the end. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That finish. Well, the buff. Yeah. The buff at the end. Yeah. Yeah. That man and you. Thank you. That's in your room. I like what are you doing? Yeah. Oh, I took the vocals from the game and I brought them here and now they're not in the logic. I was going to go through and just find more pieces that will add to it. I can certainly probably like it. Yeah. I run to my room. Dope. I need the vocals. Yeah. Like, yeah. I learned that. I learned from them. The how to edit the breaths. Yeah. Oh, in your in your in your pro tools. Yeah. Yeah. Got you. Because I'm like, okay, I get it. We can clean it up. But now it feels computerized. Yeah. Okay. So now I just got to I got to I got to I got to figure out where the breath almost feels like almost like an inflection or feels like an ad live in a sense. I use that. And yes. Yes. Right. And it was just little intricate things like that. Yeah. That a lot of people didn't understand about production, especially in logic and pro tools and really learning how to also learning from not just producers, but engineers. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Like I remember certain things like when we cut a record and it ended with a S. And then making sure that the all harmonies didn't have a S on it because then you'd hear all that little stuff. Okay. No, we got the S. Yeah. We got the S on the one. We don't need that. Everybody. And little stuff like that or you know, the T's and the P's and all that stuff that would pop. But that's that's all a part of producing that you start to learn that takes your stuff from here to again, commercially ready and yeah. And getting out again, getting out of the way, man. Like is this song? It would make the the sheen matter. But it's in the details. And to me, that's the biggest issue that a lot of producers now have to learn in order to elevate their music. To me is really start to dive back into the details of the record. Not just the fact that you got a great loop or you got a great, you know, a great hook or whatever. Like start to look into the details as to why these songs stick. Yeah. So what happens with the dogs is that you can get lazy because you do it so fast and it sounds so good. And AI and AI. So you think you're done. Right. Right. When when there's all there's always just a little more to do. Always. So that was the thing I learned also about from from from from Kenny from Babyface was I learned the difference between a great song and a copyright. And a copyright for those who don't know a copyright is that record that pays you the rest of your life. That's that thing becomes your signature song signature sound that you know, you've got of course a bunch of them. You've got your so anytime you get a caller demanded to to perform somewhere, there's these particular songs that are used. And that's what a copyright is. Now we we we have one and I'm glad you're here. Yeah. Because we can jump in now. We had one. It was a record called the Injury Reserve. The IR. The IR. Right. Take another song now. You know, I was like, listen, I'm going to write this for tank. Sure did. I don't know. Hey, you know what? I know all the rest you niggas is trying to cut it. Y'all want to sing it. No. You know what guys? No. Yeah. Because I'm going to be on this new tank out. Me and Tony Dixon. Sure. We're going to be on this album. We're going to kill it. And tank like y'all are going to be on this album. Kill it. And then we were on the album. Kill it. So I just want to bring it up because you hear it. It wasn't my fault. I get it. I get it. We don't send the industry now. I get it. I'm the only nigger from the underdogs that was not all sex. Eleven. I love the record. I get it. The powers that beat. Okay. Okay. At that time. I'm trying to get back. Y'all don't want to find it. Right. I didn't have a position. It's fine. It's a book. The system. It hurt a little bit. Just so you know. Just but we okay. Barry, you don't like it to reserve. Yeah. It's cool. It don't. It almost with the the rest of the shit you got. But what about Jay? What about Jay? What about my friends? They made me around. Oh shit. I was like, you sure? Yeah. Yeah. I'm flays. Yeah. I will. I will need that. Oh. And then he just never went on to nobody. No. No. No. That record is crazy. Yeah. I love that record to this day. To this day. We might have to look at that one again. We just might have to just yeah. Just because. I can't see. You know what I'm saying? Go out there with a court blow hamstrings. Joe, he's a go. Oh, that record me to this that that's one of favorite records. Personally that, you know, everybody has every it takes me back to a time that record has a a time stamp on it. Yeah. And when I hit that record, when I hear those chords, I'm like, yeah, that was a time. Yes, it was such a time. Yeah, oh, it'd be young man. It means it's crazy So just like you said, the old weekend was therapy for you. Heartbreaker was a therapy for me. Because that was my story. No, no, no. Yeah. Heartbreaker was our story. It was our story. That's right. That's right. We yes. Oh, you niggas was going. Boy, oh my gosh. And that's all we've done like a few minutes. Our breaker was our story. And wedding song was our story. Down, down, down. I cried when they played wedding song. Yeah. I mean, you tell me that. Yeah. Oh shoot. Allergy's is crazy. Oh. Yeah. You know me so well. Yeah. I was cooked. Yeah. And then our heartbreak, I was like this. Yeah. Nika, y'all in my business. I don't even know you niggas like you. Yeah. Yeah. I was y'all killed. Y'all killed me. And Eric singing it. I said Jesus Christ. Yeah. That was one of my vocal mentors. I'm like, oh, you eat. Yeah. Okay. All right. Here we go. Yeah. And you did. Here we go. Yeah. You did. I used to do heartbreak and concert. Well, I could slow that thing down and then freefall it. Boy. Yeah. Yeah. That's. Sheesh. That's right. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. but you know, that they weren't promoting whatever. And he goes, I'm sick of this. You got four minutes to tell a story. You got four minutes. You got four minutes to tell a good story. And I've done this time and time with you guys again. So he's going off and cussing this program director out. And that stuck with me. And I was like, you got four minutes to tell a story. So I remember writing that concept down. That's one of the things I always did because my vocal prowess wouldn't want you guys to do. So the way I would usually deliver would be concepts. I usually start with a concept or a title or something. And so what I would do is I'd be like, OK, I remember I had that as a list of one of my titles. And I remember, OK, as a producer and as a writer, how can I make this song interesting? I want to obviously, I want to make this exactly four minutes. I'm going to take a second hand and make that the metronome. And I told, I remember when I told the vine, I was like, look, I was like, you got four minutes to win your girl back. What are you going to say? That's how we started this song. I was like, you got four minutes to win your girl back. What do you do? I was like, you walk in the door, you see her packing. I created the whole scene for him. I was like, you see your girl packing? You see your girl packing? You don't know why she's packing. You also know you ain't clean. So what are you going to do? We don't know what she knows, what she doesn't know, but what are you going to do? And so when he starts his song, part of me on his own, it's something that I don't remember where. It's exactly how it starts is, let's make this scene of you got four minutes to win her back. How do you win her back? And so that's the whole concept for that song. And then again, at the end, I'm out of time, but you don't know whether he won her back or not. Because yeah, that's when that song came out, I was like, I actually, and that's truly the joy of songwriting. Yes. Yes. Being able to fully paint a picture. Yeah. Being able to fully paint a picture and tell a story where someone can close their eyes and see what you're saying. Right, right. That's when you know that you're doing the right thing as a songwriter. Am I opinion when someone goes, bro, I was there. I'm like, you what? Right. No, Nigger, when I heard that song, I was there. Yeah. I was with you, Nigger. We was, I'm like, I was shit, we did something right. Yeah, we really did something right. So speaking of doing things right, bro. Your next steps too, right? Because being a part of something that we were all a part of, like the underdogs, which was such a force in the business, sometimes, it's tough. Yeah. After, yeah. Sometimes it's tough to really transition into what you're going to do on your own, right? Or with someone else. Right. You know what I mean? Because the other thing that I've noticed about you is that you are the epitome of the collaborative effort. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you embrace that. Yeah. You've never had an issue with that. I've never had a conversation with you where you were having a Mimi, Mimi, I, I, I, I, I, I never, I'm on never. You just always like, yeah, when we did this and then we did that and and and and I helped in this. You know what I mean? But it was for you, it was you and better, a better way to put it, bro. Like if anybody was an underdog, you are an underdog because you always worked with someone or sometimes under somebody else's, they were doing their thing in the background. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why personally me, and I know tankers, well, we've always screamed your name so loud. Yeah. And I appreciate that more than you know, because you've never screamed your name. No. And then other people didn't. Yeah. In my opinion, I should be real about it. Like, and I'm that if the shoe fit where? Right. But to me, you've always been a part of so much dope music, so many dope situations, man. Like after the underdogs, like you and Eric, mm-hmm. Yeah, I decide we're going to do our thing together. Yeah. You know what I mean? And the success that you all have, can you start leading us to like, you know, just, you and Eric, baby face. You know what I'm saying? Like just give us some history in that, because this is your time as tank was saying. Thank you. Talk your shit. So that's why you hear that. Like my dogs, but man, I appreciate that. But yeah, I, so toward the end of the underdog error for me personally, I feel like there are areas I want it to go to creatively that weren't necessarily everybody's collective idea at the time, which is fine. Yeah. But also, I wanted to make sure that like, like you said, that the business was always handled fairly and that relationships were maintained and all of these things. And so the only way I can have any sort of control over that was to make sure that I went and demounted. Pretty sure. And you know, because no matter what situation you're in, if you haven't officially partnered with somebody, then you have to deal with the fact that this is under their rules and this is what they choose to do. And it's okay. You know, you decide whether or not you want to play by their rules or not. And so for me, that was just how, that was my decision. It was like, okay, well, we, let's, let's figure out a way to do this thing on our own. And Eric and I had already built a great relationship anyway. So it was like, well, let's just go ahead and do it. And so we did. And we created some music together. That was great. We did. I want to be for Chris. Yes, you did. Yeah. And called you back in on that. Yeah, you called me for that. Yeah, I said, I'm absolutely honest. You put a little state. He sure did. What? He sure did. Tony was like, I mean, we need a bridge. Good. Good. He went so quick. He's so quick and killed it too, man. Like, yeah. So we did. I want to be here at the breezy, but I'm like, yeah, yeah. You know, that's my. Yeah, I'm on it. I'm on it. That's me. That's what he was like. I'm on that. Right. Yeah, man. And, you know, from that and getting to work with our Kelly again and doing religious and got to work with Mary Mary and did some stuff on the Christmas project and then work with Eric and his brother. That's a co-transition. Kelly, religious to you know what? Yeah. Yeah. But it goes back to what I wanted to do. I want to do more. Okay. When was. When was. Remember finally. Yes. Finally for Tony. Yes. Yeah. On the leave. That was a leave album. Yeah. I did finally supposed to be and hate you. Yeah. Yeah. I could. Yeah. I was me and Carrie, Carrie Hilton and Jay. That's how I met. JQ and Carrie. Mm-hmm. Got that. They worked on that record as well. So. Cooking. Yeah, man. That was. Again, that was how I even have been my relationship with Tony was making sure I had some stuff that I felt fit her. Finally was one of those records where I started thinking conceptually. What can she do? So like all the verses have old titles or other songs in it. And I think Kimberly Johnson is singing the demo of that and she co-wrote it with us as well. And so. But I wanted to make sure my whole thing was always. Do what it is that my gift is. Okay. I'm not going to be the singer. I got to make sure that I give them some sort of direction. Yeah. Give an artist or a writer direction or whatever so that you know they have some sort of different perspective on the song. To me, we all write the same five songs, right? But the way you look at it can be interpreted completely different by where your creative space is and where you're headed. So for example, if we walk in this room, I mean, you could look around this room and say, okay, this is a, you know, it's a fly room. It's got this on the other. But me as a creative, I may go and say, okay, well, let's look at the detail of that seat or look at the pictures and the frame in that wall or let me check out the lighting or whatever. And that's what we do is creative as writers. Okay, we're going to tell that story of heartbreak. But how do you tell that story in a way that maybe has them in tow? Let's get into the nuances of it that are a little different than someone else. Or, you know, oh, you're pleased don't go or whatever. She's worth the trouble. All these records is like, let's try to figure out a way to come up with a different perspective and a different detailed point of view that makes people go, oh, crap. Yeah, it is heartbreak, but maybe I don't have to look at it that way. Or, you know, why he worth the trouble. Oh, I still ain't figured it hard. You know what? I don't know. I don't know what. No, I ain't no edits. I ain't no edits. So how do you get to baby face? So, so yeah, so Kenny, we have to rewind back to the underman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, baby face. I'm Kenny. Yeah, but so it started during the underdog era. So we did an entire album with him that was actually unreleased. And so we were in the Edmunds Towers, which was his building at the time. And so we got to work on an entire project for him that, and that's how I really built my relationship with him. This had to maybe be 2006, something like that. And just sitting with him, obviously I knew who he was. And again, I told you he was one of my blueprints. So it was that. But then fast forward, we had been working, we had a group that we had gotten signed to Innesco. I square. I square, yeah. And y'all called us. Yeah, same thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm talking about about relationship. I'm talking about relationship. Yeah, that's, it's about relationship again. So, but we were also at that particular time back in his studio at Brandon's way. And so his other studio. His other studio. Yeah, like five. Yeah, that's going to get a few. Yeah, don't get it twisted. But being around him or him getting to see me work again, he got to see how, you know, high operating. And we just happened to be down the same musical street if you want to call it that. He also knew that I was a type of person that I would work until it got done. You know, whatever, however long it took, whatever we had to do to figure it out, it was going to get done. And so he pulls me aside after watching how things were going and how, how I worked. And he was just like, what do you think about us working together? And I was like, absolutely. You know, but, but to be fair, I also was concerned about that in the beginning because he was already who he was. Right. And at this point, to what you were saying before, I wanted to make sure I could establish my name, but I also wanted to make sure I had the community and the relationship. So I was, I asked him, I was like, how do we figure out a way to balance this? Because I don't want it to be where every record we do is going to say, produced by baby face. And I had, you know, I had everything to do with that. But I, yeah, you know, and I, so I just, and he was very accommodating and welcoming and all that. But I also told him to like, I'm not going to be that person that's a moocher. I'm not going to be, I want to make sure that any environment I'm in, I'm going to bring value. Yeah. So whatever it is that I need to do to make your job easier, again, to get out of the way. You tell me what that is. I'm going to do that. And in return, all I ask is that you make sure that I have the freedom to do what I need to do to establish my name. Yeah. And that's really what we did. So from that point on, it was, he was of course, okay with it. But the very first thing we did together was Beyonce. Very the first thing we did, we got to call a week later to go to New York. He's just, he's flat. He's flat. I mean, like that. I'm just the very first thing that I do with Kenny. With Kenny. Yeah. With Kenny. Is a young lady named Beyonce. Have you heard of her? Yeah. You know, you might have. I might have. Yeah. So it's whatever. I've seen the big horse and all the things crazy. But yeah, so we got to call not even a week after he and I had solidified our partnership and go to New York. And at this particular time, the first person that I thought, because Kenny asked me, like, who do you want to bring in as a writer? It's a top liner to know, bring, bring it home or whatever. And so I hit JQ. And I was like, so I hit Q and I told him and I was like, no, I got this opportunity. I can't tell you what it is. You have to cut the top on a plane and cut. We got you just cut. And so he did. And we got to New York. And she was, it was an amazing session that we had with her. We got to spend a couple of weeks with her. And the way she did it was she ran out quality, the entire studio, quality studios. And so she had one room where she cut vocals, one room where we could create the demos. And then she had another one more dream was that. And writing on whatever other records she had for him. And so she came in and talked with us and she was like, she was telling us at the time what her goal was for this project. I think the only record she played us at the time that stuck was Girls Run the World. And so at that time I remember her telling us that she was really into Fey La Couté and like African rhythms and that kind of thing and that was bopping or whatever. But the reason we got to work with her was because she was like, I want to make sure we get a classic R&B song or some songs for this project. And so I was like, you called the right people. We do that, right? And so we sat and created for her and she heard the song and so we're writing it, Kenny demos the record. Same thing. So he's demoing the record and and then she comes back in and she's bopping and doing her thing and she calls Tata in and she's like, yo, and he comes in and they're bopping and so we're like excited to see the reaction. And so again, just like any team, you still got to build chemistry and learn how people work and all those things. And so Kenny and I were just learning each other really in that space. But it was again proof that we're in the right place and this is the right time for us to be doing what we're doing together. And so she loves the record, takes the file, goes in the room, goes to cut it. We start writing something else and we're writing another record. She comes in and loves it, cuts it. So we're like, oh, shoot, we're, you know, we're on to something. And so that's literally what happened from that was getting to work with her and dealing with that whole experience and and what came of it was best thing I never had. And we had another record that went on her international record called Dream It. And but yeah, best thing I never had was the original version of that was a completely different production initially where we were kind of looking at like it was more of a mid tempo. It was kind of 90s driven. Okay. It was like the drums from like the show from Dougie Francis the show and it was it was more of a mid tempo. Yeah. Well, I'm glad y'all chose this one. That's one of my favorite Beyonce records. Yeah. Thank you. That record is I can't hear it in all the way. Thank you, man. And but that goes and even with that one, it goes back to me bringing what I could bring to the table at the time. I remember having that title of that song in my notes as a as a concept for a song. We just sat down one day and it's like and I thought out there, what do you think of this title? What do you mean by that? And I remember sitting we were sitting with her and we were joking like I think I made a joke like the guy that she dated in high school's got to be laughing or bragging everybody about. Yeah, I did Beyonce and everybody's like, you're right. You know what I mean? And she literally was like, I doused that bullet and we were like, hold on. There it is. There it is. There it is. So we go in and we write the song and we took some of the things that our conversation as you as you all know, you take the conversation, you write the song. Absolutely. And that's what happened. So we wrote that song and it was where she was actually love the story and we cut that one and yeah. And so that kind of started to solidify he and I's relationship when it came to the workspace. Like it was if you want to say advanced class, right? And then I got to say that's what it was, man. I didn't know that the smallest word change in a verse could completely change the meaning of what you said. Just by changing maybe one word. And that's what I learned from him. Like it's literally one word that you could be like, oh wow, I didn't think about it that way. But again, it's the details. He would do that. Sometimes we would do three, four, five, and six rewrites of a record just to get to that right one. But it was because of the detail that he would and his time that he would put into it. And and then you forget like who to me, he's again, he's Kenny because he's my friend. But then then he get behind that booth and you're like, oh yeah, no, he's baby face. He's baby face. We grabbed that guitar. It's like, oh no, he's baby face. He's yeah, he flipped that guitar the wrong way. He flipped that that way or it's like, wait, so you not not Kenny at all. Okay, you hold new nigga. Yeah, he really is Superman. Yeah, you really Superman. He really is. And I wanted to learn the other thing I wanted to learn from him was about he and L.A.s processing regards to artist selection and song selection for artists because to me, LaFace is the last big Motown we've ever had. Yeah. And it was really important for me to understand their thought processes to why they would pick, you know, Tony versus her entire, you know, with her and her sisters or pick pink out of a group or whoever it is that they signed. Right. And then all of these people still have careers that have lasted until today. They have. And so that's what I would ask him. And he would always tell me like, you know, we're looking to three albums down the road. And, you know, we're looking for growth and this, that and the other and all the things. And so I was like, he's very gracious with his information. No question. If you know him and you can have a real conversation with him, he is not, he's not a gatekeeper of information. He's going to tell you something. Yeah, he is. I mean, to help you. Yeah. And he's even just and seeing you guys pay it forward. Yeah. Right. With something that is now people are really truly finding out about is a Leon Thomas and a Chris Ridic time. Most people don't know. Yeah. Yeah. How that, you know, how that transpired and how you guys were very instrumental. Yeah. With the whole Ariana Grande. Yeah. And that whole thing and now of them being the faces of where we're at in in R&B music and question, no question. It if there's anything I would hope people that are interested in the business would get out of this is how important relationship is. Yeah. Relationship will take you places your talent won't. Yeah. It will keep you in places that your talent won't. And so for me, the one thing that I always did my best to do was make sure that when my name got out there, you couldn't say anything negative about me. You couldn't say that I did you dirty. You couldn't say that I handled things sideways. You couldn't say anything. You couldn't say anything about my integrity. And that's how my relationship with Chris came, you know, with Chris and Leon. I met Chris at 16 years old and Neil Pogue is the one who actually introduced him to him. And Neil is a Grammy award winning engineer, friend, whole thing. But he called me and was like, yo, I got this kid. He's, you know, he's a little rough round the edges, but I told him there was nobody else in LA. I wanted him to meet other than you. And how would you feel about being interested in mentoring him? And so I met with Chris and he brings me some beats and, you know, the whole thing. And I remember telling him what I felt he needed to improve on. And literally six months later, he came back and everything I asked him to do, he had done. And I was like, you got the attitude I had. Yeah. Let's do it. And so brought him in and he brought Leon in. And again, Leon had a relationship with Ariana from the show. So he's like, yo, they're trying to figure out this Ariana thing. What do you, what should we do about it? Bring her here. And that's her debut album. That's her debut album. Yeah. So she came over. And actually the song we did, baby, I was one of the things we did in the Beyonce session. So that was a carryover. Yeah, that's a carryover. She didn't take. And so we had a record that we felt fit, Ari. And she cut that record. And then it turned into why don't you guys do the whole thing. And so that's how we did it. We took one song turned into six and all of that. But it also gave Chris the confidence, he gave Leon the confidence. Because that was the other thing. We gave them the space to grow. Right. And we just became guard real. Yeah, y'all could easily big boy decision. Yeah. And took they tags off the song. Yeah. Like their tags are on the song. Yeah. But experience taught me that that's not the right way to handle. Right. To handle producers. And let me just rock. Let him rock. You know, let me just rock, man. Yeah. And then we gave them the space to be able to create. And I knew it was going to be paid forward. I didn't know how. But I also knew that them having the freedom to get confident. And again, they had Kenyans as guardrails. So we were going to make sure that nothing was going to get out too far and too let, you know. But and the business was fair. So it's not like they had to worry about that. They could just create. Right. You know what I mean? And so when we sat and created the music, they again, they got their tag in the record. And all that. And it doesn't make what I got to do any less credible or any less important. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they got to shine the way that they needed to shine and create the confidence that they needed. And so fast forward, look at where they are now. It's, you know, I'm nothing but proud of them. Yeah. And have nothing but great things to say about them both. Yeah. Chris is still, and Liam, they both are like my little brothers, man. And it has, our relationship has now spanned like it is with you guys. It's outside of music. If we never did music, we could hang out. Right. And do music, the byproduct is there's going to be some good music coming out. You know what I mean? Speaking of that. Yeah. It's a really great song. As they would say back in the day, it's burning up the airways. It's burning up. Yeah. I'm an old music business. Right. It's burning up the airways. Yeah, man. That you've done with Chris Ridic time. Yes. Yeah. It's called out the wind. Yeah. Yeah. By the fabulous K-liney. K-liney. It's not K-liney. Not K-liney. K-liney. It's K-liney. It's K-liney. Yes. Respect it. Yeah. Again, it's relationship. You know, Chris brought K-liney to Kenny and I when she was 14, 15. And he knew even back then what to do with her. Yeah. We weren't in a space where we had any sort of leverage to actually do anything for her. And that's the other thing that's great about Kenny. Kenny's not, when ego's not in the way, if there's a better place for them or better home, yeah. Fine. We'll figure out a way for us to work together. But it doesn't have to be. We gotta sign them and lock them down and all that others know. And so that's how our relationship with K-liney was built. Was way back when she was 14. But Chris has always known how to deal with her, how to understand what she wanted to do musically. He always was a go-getter. And what he did was he took this place and he's actually elevated her to a place of, you know, she's always been this talented. She's always been good. But now the music is like, now she's just coming into her plateau moment where it's like she's peaking. And out the window was a byproduct of that. She literally said, I want to do the album that I grew up on. And so she gave us a lot of points of references to what that was. And to me, I give her nothing but the utmost respect and kudos because I've heard that a lot of times before. But then artists get a lot of artists have gotten scared to follow through. They say, yeah, they don't follow through. Whether it be because they feel like it's too dated or whatever their mindset is, you never know, but whatever. But she decided I'm committed to this and I'm going to go ham at it and I'm going to do my best job to do that. And she's winning. And she's winning. And I think this is going to be, my opinion is going to be where music is coming back to, especially our genre of R&B is coming back to. It's not just about the classic sense of the music, but it's about the vulnerability. Yeah. It's about the honesty. It's about, again, giving some interesting details to walking into the room again, like out the windows an interesting concept, folded to the interesting concept. Yeah. It's, you know, and so now we're just creating new soundtracks with those saying five love song stories, but it all is centered around relationship and the relationships have done nothing but been paid forward and come back to me 100 fold. So. Yeah. Now you, you, you, you are an example, bro. Thank you, man, that you can be a good guy and great things can happen for you. Thank you, man. You know what I mean? I met a lot of people in this business. I work for a lot of people and you are someone that, that when I, when I just think of like all the good people in this business and which for me, like I don't have those all, it's all the businesses, nasty, the business is the business. Right. But the people that are really good people and they stand out to me. And I've been blessed enough to meet a lot of people that, that of that and you were at the top of that list, bro. Yeah. Thank you, man. Thank you all, both, man. I say the same thing about both of y'all too. Like there's the great thing about you guys is what said when you're not around, you know what I mean? And to me, that is the test, the, the true testament of our relationship and our friendship and our brotherhood. Like I can go out and nobody can say anything bad about y'all. Yeah. They choose to get ready to, they got to look at me because they know it's not going to fly with me, you know what I mean? And I know you feel the same. Absolutely. But then they can't say, even if they want to do, they, what are they going to hate on? Right. They're going to hate on the truth. Right. You know what I mean? Or they just hate them because they want to hate, but they can't hate on how you guys operate, how you guys treat people, the type of music you, and your talent. Like, and to me, that's what built our bond. Like it's just like, yeah, the music matters, but the music is only as good as the people that make it. Yeah. Period. You know, and so when people look at what we've gotten to do and, you know, even the endeavors you guys have created and the platform you've created and all the other things that you guys are getting to do, it's all based on your relationships, but everybody has to go back and say, well, they some good dudes. Yeah. You know what I mean? I mean, a lot, bro. It's everything. It's everything. Like, there's nothing you guys, that's why there's nothing you can't do. It's not just that you're that talented, but your name is good in the streets. Like, your credit is good. You know what I mean? Like, I don't have good credit. You got to have great credit anywhere. Get along. Bro, like, because you're going to need it. You're going to do this thing. That's why you're going to need it. Especially in this business. Facts. Facts. So I want to touch on one thing before we get to. Yes, sir. To get to my piano. Way before. Way before guys were figuring out the camera had value. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I know a lot of guys who used their cameras for evil. Yeah, I take pictures of you, girl. Come over. Wow. You're so nice. Never 30 p. You turn the camera on and the clothes come off. Get some good photos of you about 1 a.m. Trainers and photographers. Trainers and photographers. Yeah, train you about 2.30 a.m. So when your muscles are really prime. You went into photography for real. A real man. Like, we hired you. Yeah, you weren't. It was an Instagram model photography. You were photography. Yeah. Yeah. It became an, it was another passion that I found, man. It was one of those laws in the industry where you get frustrated and life happens and you're just trying to figure out some other way to feed that creative bug that I had. And I always enjoyed going to like galleries and stuff like that and looking at cool pictures and all that. But the thing that really triggered it for me was I went to Rafael Sadiq Studio one time. And he had this book that he had gotten from Paris. And if you know Rafael, he has like the rarest of everything. Yeah, very rare. Yeah. That's just what he does. And so he's rare. Yeah, he just, he just, he just, he just, he, he, but that's what he does. And so he had this book. And it was this Motown book and it had like some of the most incredible Candids and pictures that I've ever seen of that era that I'm, you rarely see anywhere. And I was like, man, nobody's done that in our era. Like we don't have that kind of stuff as memoir anymore of like, you know, studio sessions and the writing and Michael being in the room with Stevie and so on and so forth. And so I was like, that was the first thing for me was like, maybe I'll start with that. Let me just go ahead and start creating my own coffee table book, not even to sell it. Just for me, you know, because the thing that has happened with my career is you got, I got so engulfed in it that some of it became a blur because you start moving so much. You always think about the next thing. Yeah. I mean, you start, you start reflecting and start looking at the memories and the things that we've gotten to accomplish. And so I said, maybe that's what I wanted to do. Let me go ahead and make a coffee table book. And so it started there. And then it went from that to I dove into it the way I dove into music. I just did it all the time. Like I almost took a year off of music where I studied lighting, I studied retouching. I went and I went to classes. I did portfolio building. I did the whole thing. And I purposely didn't tell anybody in that world that I did music because I wanted to make sure that it was respected for what it was, not for who I knew or who I could bring or any of that stuff. It needed to be that if it was going to be validated, it was going to be because it was actually just good work. And so that's what I did. I dove into it and I did it all the time and I spent a bunch of money on a bunch of a gear and a whole thing. And then I started getting calls and getting hired and you guys hired me and so many others. And it was like it turned into a whole another medium of a whole another business that I've created now that I still do and I still love it. I think what's the issue? What did you do for me? You did a, what's the magazine? It was rolling out rolling out magazine. Yeah. Yeah. Tony. Yeah. Yeah. They told me he was coming to, I was like, don't tell him. I was like, don't tell him. I was like, don't tell him. Don't go. Yeah. Yeah. Tony. Okay. Yeah. I'm not worried. Yeah. You guys are a renaissance man. If you got the camera, I know you know everything about that motherfucker. Exactly. Exactly. Very researched. Exactly. And that's what I did, man. I learned it. I fell in love with it and I wanted to, I'm sure it goes into a much deeper psychological thing for me, but it was like, again, so much of my life from losing my father up to the day makes you go like, wow, like so many great things have happened and we don't document this stuff. We don't have memories a lot of times anymore. And everybody's so quick to put it on social media and all this other stuff. But to me, it's like, I remember all the great sessions we had that we don't have pictures of. Yeah. Yeah. Some incredible things. I remember us going to paintball on the stage at your house and don't have pictures from those camera. We gave them a photographer too late. I sure did. Fuck. Yeah. I'm sad. The pictures, I got a boot, I lay it. Yeah. It's blurry. Yeah. Ashy. It's like a picture like all of us with money like this doing the little money thing and you can barely make a day. They go tank. They go tank. Yeah. Yeah. So that was, that's that's how the photography part came in, man. And I just. I thought that was really good. Now it was. And it is. Thank you. Absolutely, bro. Thank you. Oh, shit. Oh. I feel like we've been connected for a long time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Oh right there Bloody fire, a validity like that Tony nerds, you're Top five Yeah, your top five Come on now Top five Your top five Are it beacons? Yeah, it's all in these halls We've got to do Before you go Here on this show Everybody wants to know How you're top five Yeah Top five Top five Your top five Oh It's niggas get closer to Randy Watson everywhere Second chocolate Man, thank you for joining us, Piano bro I'm gonna try to hate on this little piano too I'm gonna try to hate Humble begin Yeah, they don't know Your top five R&B singer Yeah, all right I'm gonna start with Michael Yeah, come on Michael I'm Michael Jackson, you're Michael And then I'm gonna go with Stevie I like to to Stevie Yeah, then I'm gonna go dance a little Okay, now you dribbling Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, that's cool Yeah, that's cool Yeah, deal, deal, deal, deal Then I'm gonna go try to be Wilson Oh, longevity man Still sounds Exactly the same Prestine It's still cool, I have them on a record right now It's just He just cold It's amazing Uncle Charlie Then my last one was kind of tough, but I'm gonna go ahead and commit to, I'm gonna say Whitney Houston. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great commitment. Yeah. The voice. Yeah, the voice. She just, the voice. She's just a monster man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know the Kenny record. She might be the crispiest vocal of all time. Yeah. I agree. I'm more crispy than Luther. Luther, Luther was clean. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. You got it. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I understand. Krispy goes to Whitney. Yeah. Yeah. To me, the pit of me of a great singer is not just your technical ability, but do I believe you when you sing? Yes. And yeah, I gotta believe everything you say. And all of them, when you, when they sang it, you believe it. And I got the honor of being a singer. I got the brand in there. I'm sorry. Yeah, why not? Because she's the lineage of Whitney. So, brandy just called. Yeah. She just, you know, she nasty. Yeah. Okay. Your top five R&B songs. Okay. Yeah. And they got a lot of songs in your head, right? Yeah. I've got a lot of songs too. I'm gonna go way back and then bring it back. So bring it up. Join inside my tears, Stevie Wonder. These are the crazy. Yeah. That's an album cut right after it's she lovely. But those weren't heard it. You are crazy. That song, for whatever reason, when he sings it, I believe it. He, that's, that's my favorite Stevie Wonder song. Then I'm gonna go tell me if you still care. That's what's bad. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Every time that song comes on, still. Yeah. You stop. That's what I'm saying. You stop. Don't, don't. Broom. Yeah. We gotta, we gotta make that record. No question. I just so recently, I just got to work with Jamel Lewis. Ta. That's what we'll go to that later. But anyway, yes. Yes. And I got to ask them, I asked them about that song in the whole process because again, I nerded out from that point. I was like, yo, y'all did my, I'm not gonna do the track. Yes. To that. Got it. For right now. Done. And bring it to me. Done. Bring it to me. Done. Yeah, I'm just you done. But yeah, tell me if you still care. Cause it was one of my, I'm a singer verse on there. As you said, Jay is gonna sing a verse on that. As you should. I'm on that. And he has no special. Shout out to little Steve Russell. Here's my name. And let's bring little Steve Russell in the help right. Yeah. Here we go. Here we go. Problem solved. Problem solved. Need that tomorrow. Done. Done. Done. Then I'm gonna go, this is kind of a slash because it's the same artist. Untitled, how does it feel? And Lady, D'Angelo, both of those. Why not? Yeah. Why not? Why not? Cold. I don't think there's, how does it feel? I don't think there's a sexier record. I don't, anybody. I don't think there's a better song ever in the six, eight times signature. Period. Then how does it feel? Completely agree. Untitled changed my life. Me too. Well, Lady was the start. Lady Brown Sugar was the start of the change of life. Yeah. Because I got the cassette. Right. I got the cassette. I was, I was all-in. Yeah. Yeah. D'Angelo. Yeah. Same. Then it's a hydrochema. Yeah. Gone. That shit wasn't fair. Untitled is this respectful. Respectful. Bro. That's. That song is so cold. Right. No, off the top. Brrr. Let me just sit here for a minute. I said, what are y'all doing in there? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I think, I think, I think that's what can get lost in, in just the new age process of making music. Uh-huh. It's the cats. Yeah. Yeah, forget about the cats. Cats. That's what tears marons say. Don't forget about the cats. Yeah. Pigs. Pigs. Yeah. And this guy. And this guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because that do something different to America. It does. Think about what it did for us. Usually. That's my point. It's why we are. That's why we are. Right. For sure. It's not that I couldn't do it myself or you couldn't do it by yourself. But when we all got together. All the cats. Yeah. Period. I didn't even know I was a cat. Oh, you a cat, bro. I didn't even know. I was like, I'm a brother. I think I'm a cat, bro. I'm a slick ass. Slick ass. Slick ass. You're definitely a cat, bro. Okay. Was that two and one or two? Yeah, two and one. Okay. Okay. When you touched me, Brandy. Disrespectful. Disrespectful. Yeah. That's only a disrespectful. Mm-hmm. You can't be. You can't be anyone. Within the community of what we do. And that song, not be a standout. Period. Period. Period. It's on every level, every production, writing, vocals. It's one of those perfect songs. Period. No, hold it, you call it. None. Yeah. Song is incredible. You talk about execution, she killed it. Do I believe her? I'm still listening to the track like yeah, yeah, it can stand up today. Who is this yeah? Yeah, yeah song is cold Rodney's master monster Yeah, that's another one for me. It's just like oh Then I got to go another jam and Lewis. Can you stand a rain? Again architects architects like you look at If you to me a great song has the three elements so you got the lyric You got the melody and you got the music right and if you can separate all three of those and still have something memorable Are you still got an incredible body of work to me? You've got the best song that you can have So if you read the lyrics to can you stand a rain to somebody it's still gonna affect them. Yes, if you hum it Everybody's gonna remember a perfect day. I know I can count on you know that I can count on you Like you can literally just say that's not possible Tell me can you weather the storm? Mm-hmm Stand by me. I don't know about you. I know about you when it's tough. She won't run. She will always be right there for me he Sunny mother fucking days Everybody loves them, but huh, but tell me baby. Huh can you? Stand the Rain Sorry Sorry South of it. That's stripper. Why not? Why not? That's a great fire. Yeah, I'm in half Yeah, I'm in a half Jimmy Jamm and Terry those are architects man. Yeah, yeah builders of worlds and the greatest guys Yeah, so nice. Yeah, the builders of the world. They are true cats. Bro man Yeah true cats. Yeah They're lions I'm a cat. Yeah, those lines Different type of cat Big cats big cat big cat records big cat records and get rid of flight times Let's make your vote for my brother. Yes, they're a perfect super R&B artist where you can get the vocal The performance style styling the passion of the artists who's producing and writing for this artist artists and who's gonna shoot the cover Here we go. Here we go the vocal Michael Michael Jackson performance style James Brown Yeah, you got a James Without James everybody else is white Styling Janet Janet Jacken the reason I say Jail fly super fly super fly. She's every era of Janet We have a style that is attached to that Yeah, and to me that's what a lot of artists don't have anymore. Yeah, we can the red hair is velvet rope Yeah, yeah, the black and white is 1840. I said it's kept that going there you go. She's kept that girl She has she has talk about it, but I got to go with Janet. Yeah, I got to go with Janet on the style. I like the explanation The passion of the artist Chris Brown To do what he's done as much as long as he's done it as go as hard as he does You can't tell me he's not passionate. I don't know who he does it. I don't either. Yeah, it's amazing to watch less passionate people would have folded no question Folding a crystal of Christopher that Give me Passionate He got the blackest name Maurice Don't let me call Maurice yeah Hey, mo bral come through this year mo from proud More brown center right outside the liquor so come on You know more brown you know more brown need it That's a passion. Yeah, I got Chris man. Who's writing and producing for this artist baby face Because he's gonna figure it out absolutely. He's gonna figure it out. Yeah, he's gonna figure it out You gotta let him do what he does. I would say all of us work with him, but yes, baby. Thank you But baby face is writing it I'm shooting Yeah, my name is on that bad boy We love you John But you We He then party Don't Oh He bit so I'm weak we got here man. Okay, we got to this we got to this point man. Um Very important part of the show. Okay, okay, you tell us a story. Okay, funny or fucked up? Uh-huh, a funny air fucked up. Okay, but the only rule to the game You can say no name Okay All right, so I was in the studios particular day and There were this particular person and came to the studio and brought a crew of some other celebrities with him to the studio and The goal was to show How great they were in the studio this particular person and So he decides you know what let's go out to eat So he pulls out all the stops for all of us to go out to eat And we go to this expensive Chinese restaurant or whatever and he you know, he's didn't the bill He's taking care of everybody. He's showing this is the life, you know the meaning is we go and have a great time and Eating and all this other stuff and everybody goes to plot the money. No, you know, you money's no good here. No, no, no I got it. I got it. Yeah, yeah, you know, it's good. We good we get boss. So we you know, I'm like, okay, this is cool. This cool We we get back to the studio. He goes watch this calls his credit card company I did not I see a charge on my credit card for 900 some of my dollars and It was not me Thank you And I sat there like this Yeah, you know, this how you get them You get I got a feeling I know this mega But I ain't saying no name Oh, it's great. So I don't be giving niggas shit Welcome to the music business. Oh man. That's great. That's great. Yeah, that's great. Yeah Yeah This was not my charge He made him an accomplished Watch what don't tell me what's this stand with me. Why is this Guys, this has been great bro. We appreciate you brother. We appreciate you allowing us to get you know To just get some of our conversations and our and our interaction as brothers Yeah On tape thank you and on the channel for all the world to see me because I feel like if anybody deserves it you deserve it Thank you. Thank you To know and understand who and what you are. Yes, sir. Thank you. I really appreciate you. I love y'all Y'all know that love you too, brother. Yeah, so we are we are appreciative that first for the brotherhood that we That we have something that we've created that we can Yeah, throw something back your way. Thank you. I don't know many things. I'll way. Thank you, man And I more important than all of this The thing that I value more than anything I can call both y'all my brothers and my friends. Yes, sir That's it. Yes, sir. I appreciate all that. That's I'd be that niggas be at my house in my kitchen and she Sinner rolls was jamming Sorry, sorry man, he made me an impossible burger I'm still thinking about that thing My name is tank I'm Jay Valentine and this is the RV money podcast the authority on all things R&B yeah, and this has been our brother. I love one. Yeah, the awesome Mr. Tom Dixon Thank you This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human