Documentary: Trust Me: The False Prophet (Netflix, 2026)

Hey, it's Angela and Vicki from the podcast Get A Grip and we are currently brought to you by Cancer Research UK. One constant battle that we all face is the piles of clutter around the place that we don't actually need. Well, this is why donating your things to Cancer Research UK is the way to go. Nearly one in two people will get cancer in their lifetime and all of us can support the research that will beat it. Our purchases and donations help to raise vital funds for life-saving cancer research. Donate your good quality pre-loved or brand new items to your local Cancer Research UK shop. For more information visit cruk.org forward slash pre-loved. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand. Marketing tools that get your products out there. Integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time from startups to scale-ups online, in-person and on-the-go. Shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup. There once was a woman who lived in a shoe. A size too snug but what could she do? But that's not where her story ends. Thanks to a little help from her experience friends, she got her score into much better shape and relocated to a box fresh new place with room to grow and a mortgage to suit. Now she lives in a spacious four bedroom cowboy boot. Better your experience credit score to help get mortgage ready. Experience. Better your score. Better your story. Little Mystery Cap contains adult language and is intended for entertainment purposes only. Hi everyone, welcome to Little Mystery Cap. My name is Amy Archer. I'm your host and today I am joined by BDF Ashley, which is how we refer to you in our group. It is my marker. I would like that on my headstone as well. Yes. Hello Ashley. Good morning. How are you? I'm doing so good. It's been a crazy morning. Yeah. And you know, happy to be here. I had a really bad dream last night that my husband cheated on me and it has just controlled my morning. I think it's impacting the way I'm like problem solving this morning because I'm just like so mad. That is so relatable. There's so many times I'll have a dream like Timmy's moving out, divorcing me or I'm being thrown out and I just, I don't know. I don't know what's going on and that's a conscious of mine. Who knows? Yeah. And until he apologizes, I'm in a reach. So it's fine. So can you do me a huge favor? I know we do this every time we have you on the show, but just give it one minute synopsis of your background, your qualifications and you know, why this is the right fit here. Why I brought you on to tell this story. Why I was chosen. So my name is Ashley. I live in Utah. I'm an ex-morman. I've been married for 12 years. My husband and I have both left Mormonism. And I am a therapist mainly. I focus on trauma, but also faith deconstruction with the other mental health related things. I also recently just got my L, which has been months of work. So I'm officially in L. So after you graduate from graduate school, you have an associate of clinical mental health counseling. And then you have to get 3,000 hours of client work under direct supervision and then you get to apply for licensure. Take a very difficult exam and once you do all of that, you have to literally sell your soul. And it's, and I just got my license from the state of Utah two days ago. And I'm so excited. I'm behind on like every podcast. All of my fun things aside. And so watching this is like my little treat at the end of the, all of this, because I watched this on Saturday and I finished everything Friday. So okay. Well, congratulations. Congratulations because, you know, we should say that you're doing all this and you're also a mom. Yeah. And I have three daughters. So it's a lot, but it's so little daughters, you have little, little kids. Yeah. Yes. They're two, five and seven on the state. So it's a full house over here. So that also contributed. We are going to get together and do a real talk about raising daughters because I think we need to talk about that. This episode also really fueled that for me of raising strong daughters. So I, it's all just fueling the fire for that episode. So can I ask you, did you know of Christine Marie outside of the sister wives episode that she is in? No. No. I didn't know much about her either. Yeah. I feel like she, I, when I went into it, I was like, oh, it is her kind of like a, not to downplay it or anything, but just because sister wives really has a negative light on her. Almost like discrediting her point of view. And so I kind of wish I didn't have that connection, but obviously there, there's much more to the story that we got to hear in this. So there's been some discussion about what really happened to Christine Marie, right? This false profit or whatever. Here's my take on it. And you could tell me if you agree or not. I don't give a fuck what her background is because the work she did here is so incredible that I don't care. Well, like I think whatever happened to her, she perceived it as horrific and brainwashing and being groomed. And I believe, I believe women, I believe every feeling that she has about that. So we can sit here and split hairs and say, was he profit? Was he not? What? I don't care. This woman is amazing. Well, especially in Mormonism, they kind of treat every husband like they're the prophet. So I kind of looked at it through that lens because it's very much like follow the counsel of your husband. He's the end all be all. If he tells you something, you do it. So, which let me be very clear. I never was that in that deep. But so when she was kind of describing it, I was like, and that sounds very similar to how they want you to view your husband. When she got into some of the more like challenges and stuff he would do, that was extreme. So, but yes, I agree. I believe her and it gave her a purpose to do something even greater than what she went through. That was just like a little I want to be her when I go up. I mean her aesthetic everything. She is righteous. So, in the 80s, we used to have this, you know, where you would have a clock or something. You'd put a glass dome over it similar to the rose and beauty and the beast. Yes. I want to put a little glass dome over Christine Marie and Tolga and just protect them. I do too. And I think of like they like set aside their life for this for years. Yes. How amazing. And Tolga's right in it with her. Like I can get Timmy to go along with a lot of things. I don't know if I said, can we move to Utah? Can we move to the Crick? And you know, can we do this for like two years? I think he'd be like, you know what? You've had some ideas. This might be a little out there. I don't know if I could go. Yeah, he's like, I'm going to let that be a you adventure. I'll see you at dinner. But Tolga's like ride or die. Like he's in it. Yes. And it sounds like he was very successful like doing music videos. So the fact that he was like, let's go. Like he obviously had to set his, I mean, until he had the great music video, which we'll get to. But he had to put his career aside for this too. I'm also going to say, and I don't want to talk a lot about it. I'm just going to say it. Let it lay out there. Let it rest out there with the audience. The similarities between Trump and Samuel Bateman are staggering. Oh my gosh. How I just saying things and just saying bizarre things. And you're like, what? What does that queen of England? What music video? When he's like, watch me, Brandon, jumping stuff. I'm like, I can't. I can't say this wouldn't be in a Trump documentary. All right, girl. I have 10 pages and notes to get through. So here I felt like episodes one and two again, guys, we're talking about trust me, the false prophet. I apologize if I didn't introduce it properly. I took, I felt like I had to take more extensive notes in episode one to kind of lay the ground work for what was happening. And then we can lighten up by episodes two, three and four, which are kind of, you know, the sting operation. Yeah. So my first, do you want to do a trigger warning? Yes. That's my first note here. My first note is we talk a lot about coercion, coercive control, high control religion, sexual assault, sexual assault of children, all of the things. It's dark. I promise you that there is a happier ending, but it's a dark journey to get there. So if you don't want to listen to it, I totally understand. Go listen to us, you know, talk about the Browns or something. That's fine. Totally. My question to you that I ask everybody when I do these documentaries, did it need to be four episodes? Cause I felt it kind of did. I felt like it could be longer. That's my note. It could have been a series. Yes. I feel like they could have done an after all of this and like I would want to go further, which we're not going to spill yet. Like the afterlife, but I want to go into these people's homes. I want to know what it's like. This could have been a 10 episode series. Yes. Yes. 1000%. I also want to tell everybody, if you're interested on more background on Christine Marie, somebody on Reddit said that she was on a show called dangerous persuasion on the ID network and she's in season one, episode three. So if anybody wants to look at her story independent of this, you can find her over there. All right, girl. Let's go. Ready? Let's go. All right. In 2016, Christine Marine, her husband, Tolga Kattis, a record producer moved to Short Creek on the Utah Arizona border. It's the FDLS version of Mecca, FLDS. I always screw this up. I always say FDLS, FLDS. And she felt drawn to come and help people after Warren Jeffs left. So she was worried about false profits, which was her own experience. So we see her as a young woman. She says she met a man who said he was a prophet and she obeyed him completely. She lost her critical thinking skills and she was so broken down, she didn't know who she was. She began reading about cults. She earned a PhD in psychology from fielding, which, you know, I always dig into these institutions. Fielding is, some people are like, it's super legit and it's great. And I think it is in many ways, but other people are like, yeah, it's not a great school. So I don't know the controversy around that. And she says she specialized in cult psychology and she believed FDLS or FLDS members needed to be rescued from abuse and brainwashing, but she also felt really connected to them from her experience. Yeah. When they moved there, Tolga wanted to immediately start documenting everything. And I loved the aesthetics of this series, like the colors, the pink saturation, like everything was so beautifully shot, I thought. Yes, I thought so too. I'm like, I want to, I would follow more documentaries that they would do because absolutely. Well, they did Keep Sweet No Bay, which keeps sweet. Oh, I didn't know that they're the ones that did that. Pray No Bay. Yeah. And I cannot believe I'm about to say this, but I have not covered that on LoMis Recap. I'm stunned. I thought for sure I did. Yeah. So when they arrived, the FLDS were floundering. And Mike Watkus, who's a reporter, he's been covering this for decades. And he's like, Warren Jeffs was in prison, but he still, oh, Warren Jeffs, every time I see him, I just want to throw up in my mouth. The fact that people had him just like hanging in their home casually on it in a picture. I'm like, Yeah. Yeah. He's still issuing edicts at this point when he first gets into prison. And basically his edict is no marriages, no banging people, because I can't do it. You can't do it. Yeah, that sounds like a healthy way to end a religion. So you can't even hug your husband. No, no intimate touch because he can't have that. Yeah. So then around 2015, I don't know what's going on with Warren Jeffs. I'm going to have to do a little deep dive, see like what is happening with him right now. But they're saying like he just stopped communicating and started going downhill. I don't know what's happening. That was news to me. I had no idea because Keepsweet never got to that point. And so I was shocked. I was like, he just like fell off the face of the earth. Like who knows? Right. And in his silence, this creates a power vacuum, right? And somebody's going to fill it. So the outside government comes in and I didn't understand the statement, but this is according to Mike Wackes, the outside government, does he mean the federal government comes and takes control of these border towns? Okay. So the FLDS start getting evicted. That was really hard to watch because a lot of these women and children, I mean, they have nowhere to go. They're completely innocent in all of this. And they're just being thrown out of their homes because it sounds like they need to sign something that they don't get into what it is specifically, but it like goes against their beliefs. What are they signing? I don't know. I was wondering if it's because they like weren't part of the hat, like they weren't an owner of the house or something. And then if this person's going to federal prison, does the house become like owned by the state? I was trying to wonder if there was more like with, with having all of these families in there, if there's more like legality of like, you can't be here, you have no right to this place. The person who does is in prison. So I don't know. I was literally, I thought it was like sign this, sign this paperwork that says Warren Jeffs is a dick back. Cross out his picture. But can we just say what a time for Christine Marie to be there? I know, I know. Perfect. And I love how everybody's like, like they interview all these women who are, you know, in the garb and everything with the traditional hair. And they're all just like, she comes along and she is like an adorable little pixie Barbie, like she shops at thrift shops. She, she is adorable and eccentric and they just all like immediately, the way that she won their trust was incredible, incredible. Yes. Yes. And the little shop she created, which she might be getting to that. Mm hmm. So we get into her background a little bit. She is a ventriloquist. She's a certified life coach. She was Miss Michigan. And my favorite, she was an escape artist. The picture. She has the chains on her. I was like, what a resume, you know? Yeah. What a resume. Here I am doing nothing. And this woman has achieved several, several amazing. It makes my resume look like trash. So she had a TV show called Gingerbread House. She was teaching kindergarten. And when they started making this documentary, she also launched a nonprofit called Voices for Dignity, which brought supplies into the community. And she set up a store called Short Creek Cottage for women to sell items in and to be able to make money. I mean, she's incredible. I can't say enough about that. That was amazing. But I could see how she is like slowly microdosing them with a little bit of freedom and autonomy. Yes. Yes. That's what she's doing. I'm giving you a voice. I'm giving you an income. I'm helping where I can, like just giving them a little bit of autonomy from this culture. Yeah. Great point. Her edict is if people leave or don't, I don't care. I just want them to be okay. And she also swore that she would never say anything negative about their profit because she didn't want to alienate them. And she is the unique opportunity to help people. She just wanted to be their friend. So they start filming and that's how they meet Samuel Bateman. Oh, this guy. This guy. Oh, my gosh. How she introduces him. It is like, it sets the tone very well. Yep. Yep. She says he is not a man of status. And in 2017, he got an eviction notice and Christine helped him. He and his wife were getting divorced. He said he was a broken man. And she says people thought of him as a schlub. Like he just wasn't very important or successful. You could see it in his eyes. He always stayed there. Oh, yeah. And all of a sudden, two years later, he reappears with a young wife. She makes sure to say over 18, but barely. Barely. Barely. Maybe a few days. She's so young. This is confusing, she says, because people aren't supposed to be getting married. So what's going on? Then he reappears with another wife. And this one is that wife's younger sister. So if the older wife is 19, this one's 18. Like that's what we're dealing with here. So Norma, one of the older women says one day, Sam rolls up to the cottage with a short bed trailer full of women. This is similar to Mitt Romney's binders full of women. Short bed trailers full of women and babies. Singing creepy, creepy church songs. Yeah. Okay. Now we have to talk about the biggest thing in this documentary. What did you think? And I realized now I never shared my notes with you. I apologize. I have a note here for you. It's okay. What did you think about their decision to digitally replace all minors' faces? Kind of creepy. But also, I would have a drop in my stomach the moment I saw the face shift that I was like, oh no, that's a baby. Like, I know. It was kind of creepy, but I see how they wanted to personalize it more than just a blurred face. So I get the artistic intention, but it was really sad to see the young AI-generated face. Yeah, it just freaked me out. I'm like, do we prefer the blur or do we like, like the blur will take you out of it, right? A little bit. So a lot of women are like, okay, this is gross. We're just avoiding this whole situation. In the mean, in the meantime, Sam's going rogue and the community shuns him. And Christine Marie did not shun him because she was afraid that she couldn't help his wives if she shunned him. So she's like, I'm going in there. And we see she spends hours at this house with these people, like trying to get information. It's kind of amazing. She goes over to the house and there are legit children there, and rumors are that Sam is married to these children. So after dinner, Christine Marie runs out of the house and she calls the Colorado City Hilldale City Police. I'm mad at them. Sergeant David Wilkinson explains, our department police is both sides of the border, and this is a sanctuary town for polygamists and they call it the Crick. And he must be from Scranton because that's what we call things around here, like it's Crick. Yeah. And he says, they have been called before about Sam Bateman, but he's like, yeah, you know, we can't go busting in there until we have some evidence. This was so frustrating throughout the entire documentary. Me too. Yeah. Because he's like, we have to have unreasonable doubt. And I'm like, but they're children. Like, could there not be like continuous well checks? Could there not be like where you are a frequent visitor where someone like you're checking in, but it almost seemed like they're like, come back with more, come back with more, come back with more. It's almost like like nothing was enough. This might be a hyperbolic comparison, but it's almost like if there were like an active shooter, right, in a place. Well, we can't go in there until they actually shoot somebody. Like, no, this is a life threatening situation for these young girls, children, babies. Yes. Yes. Little Miss Recap will return in a moment. For ad free episodes, visit littlemissrecap.com slash support. New sponsor alert. Today's show is sponsored by bi-optimizers. Do you ever feel a little off at night? Like you're waking up more tired than when you went to bed. It's not always just stress. Sometimes our bodies have trouble navigating the hormonal changes that come with age. 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Nearly one in two people will get cancer in their lifetime and all of us can support the research that will beat it. Our purchases and donations help to raise vital funds for life saving cancer research. Donate your good quality pre-loved or brand new items to your local Cancer Research UK shop. For more information, visit cruk.org forward slash pre-loved. Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs. Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run, and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand. Marketing tools that get your products out there. Integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time from startups to scale ups online in person and on the go. Shopify is made for entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup. There once was a woman who lived in a shoe. A size two snug butt, what could she do? But that's not where her story ends. Thanks to a little help from her experience friends, she got her score into much better shape and relocated to a box fresh new place with room to grow and a mortgage to suit. Now she lives in a spacious four bedroom cowboy boot. Better your experience credit score to help get mortgage ready experience. Better your score, better your story. All right, so the group that Sam is leading is called the Samuelite group. And they all live together in this house and the group is very small. There's three main families Torrance, Bisline, Liddell, who they call Ludd, Bisline and Moroni, Johnson. And all of these men had like more standing in the community than Sam had, which blows my mind to how he was able to get them then and more money. But what Sam does is he decides to start telling everybody, Oh, I'm now the mouthpiece for Warren Jeffs. Which I think he did like a, I'm going to gain your trust. Tell me, tell me your, your, like, what do they call it, conflictions? Yeah, what you did wrong. And then I'm going to use that against you so that you give me whatever you want. Like I think that's especially how he got Moroni, because Moroni was feeling guilty about things that he had done. And so I think he did that with each of them of like, I'm working through brother Warren. And tell me what you've done and I can communicate with him to like, right your wrongs, but he's also just using that as a fuel to get what he needs. Oh, absolutely. And he starts and you know, this is, this sounds familiar. He starts with, this is all fake news, the media is lying to you. Warren is actually dead. And I'm, I'm his mouthpiece from the other side. This is insane because somebody points out, like, that's exactly what Warren did when his father died. He said, Oh, I'm taking control now from my father who's on the other side. I'm taking direction. Can you even imagine getting away with that? Like, ask someone with a dead dad, if I were to go to my brother and be like, I am now your father, he is taken over. Like, but when you're in this isolated community, they were like, probably, Oh, because that's what happened with brother Warren and brother Rulan. So what we will do is, so that makes sense because that's what happens when someone takes over. But also, I'm surprised more men weren't trying to pull this card. I'm shocked too. I'm really surprised. So Moroni is really buying into this because he had kind of broken away and started like marrying people and having a baby and stuff. And so like, he felt guilty that he was committing this great sin and he was kind of shunned and Sam offered him like a path back into the community. And this is why Moroni is so in debt to Sam. And this leads Sam to say, You know what, you want to pay me back brother, give me all your daughters. And he hands over all his daughters to Samuel. Wow. And then give me your wives. Yeah. And he does that too. These men, go ahead. I'm sorry. I was just going to say Moroni, I, he had way too much intelligence to be scot-free from all of this. Like, I feel like I, with everything he had done for himself and you could just see he's, he's competent. So the choices that he made are very intentional. And I think that I just want to set that tone for what, what's going to come. I agree. These men are also pretty successful business men, like they're working businesses and they're giving Sam all their money. There is this priceless shot of Tolga filming Sam's motorcade of Bentley's. So there's a, how much is a Bentley? Bentley's are like, what, a hundred grand? That is so out of my price range. I don't think it's ever even entered my Google. Oh no, I'm wrong. Everybody's laughing. Okay. New Bentley's typically cost between 200 and 400,000 dollars. Okay. No way. So there is this priceless shot of all these Bentley's coming, rolling out of like a $200,000 buy level home with like scrap metal and shit all over the heart and a broken down fence. And here comes this motorcade of Bentley's. Oh my God, it's ridiculous. How he would do this like parade of like, let me show everybody how great I am. It's disgusting. And then like 15 women and children would get out the back. Like, I don't know how they were cramming in there. And he's wearing this stupid fucking white jacket that I just want to punch off his body at all. I hate him so much. That's a size or two, too small. Yeah. Yeah. And Christine Marie says, this in Sam's mind was like a fuck you to all the men. Like this is a little guy who got power and is now like exacting revenge against everybody. So now Samuel starts talking about how he's given the girls quote trainings. And now he just sort of takes over the documentary. And he starts calling Christine and Marie and Christine Marie and Tolga like you come and film me. I need to do this. I need to do that. And he's doing like you said, like, watch me, run up this rock. It's like you're dealing with a 12 year old. Oh, they reminded me about my kids when they're like, Mom, watch, mom, watch, mom, watch. He was literally doing that with Christine Marie and Tolga. It's crazy. So all through this, Christine starts to realize now our mission is to get evidence that this that they're like, she had already talked to the police and they were like, we don't that's not enough. So she's like, we're going to get more. And so now there's this scene where they get an audio recording of him. So they're like all in a car with him. And Tolga's in the front seat, Christine's in the back. And there's also like some underage girls in the car with them. And he admits on audio that he's essentially pimping out these young women, these young, I'm sorry, these young girls. He is pimping out these children to Moroni and Torrance and Ludd. And he wants to be there watching and he's saying it. He's saying their names, they're believing their names. But he's saying the names of the girls. And the three of the girls are in the car. And you can hear Christine Marie kind of saying to them like, how do you guys feel about this? And the one is like, you know, I was really scared. And one was 13 years old, 13, actually. And I think it's important to note that these these girls, one of their dads were one of these men. Yes. So the dads are watching their buddy do this to their own daughter. And their daughters and the daughters are watching their dads do this to one of the other young girls. And what is so disgusting about this is when Sam is like, and tell them that it was of God. Tell them. Yeah. Yeah. Testify that this was good. Yes. Yes. But you know who this is really hardest on Ashley? Poor boo boo Sam. This is it's so hard for him. He has to just watch another man quote screwing my girls. The amount of punching I would do if I ever met this man, like I would have ripped by Sam's because I would just be if I would not see Marie, I would have just lit off my belt and just like, oh, oh, that's a good one from behind. Yes. Yep. Yep. I would have like the fact that he was talking about this, like, let me tell you about my hardships while the actual victims are in the back and how he's just saying like, God told me to do this when really you just have a voyeurism, pedophilia kink. And it's disgusting. Yes. Yes. So episode one ends with Christine being like, I gotta get out of here. This is I'm going to throw up and two, I'm calling the police and now I have him on audio admitting that he is not only having sex with underage girls, but he's, you know, kind of trafficking them around. So she thinks the police are going to be like, okay, we're in there with guns and we're, you know, but episode two opens up and she's like, they haven't I haven't heard from them. The police have been dead silent on this. Because Sam could deny it. Well, yeah, he could deny it, but also it's his voice. Like, it what is crazy to me is the fact that they will hear this and be like, not yet. Like, Oh, well, hold on, save your rage until this part. Detective Wilkinson, Ashley says that there's not enough evidence and he only listened to it once because, you know, there's a lot of information in this case that just can hurt his gentle heart. Two freaking bad. This is your job. These are children. It's hurting your heart. It's hurting these children. Like, I'm like, Oh, you're hurt. I, I'm interested in the fallout of this with this police department. I thought it was the same thing because I want to call in rage, but I can see him not having a job after this. The fact that he even agreed to interview shows that he believes he did nothing wrong and it is going to be his funeral because in the end, as always, it takes a woman to get it done. Preach. Yes. So he says, you know, we had a tape and yes, Christine Marie was the creator of the tape, but we still didn't have enough for warrant. You know, we need to be able to prove this at one point. I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but at one point, Tolga says, what do they want? Do they want us to be in the bedroom with this happening? And like, and then he, he brings up another good point Tolga does later. He's like, so in any case of abuse, you need a full documentary crew to like document it in order for charges to be, this is insane. It's insane. Right after this, it said suggested documentary. I watched the Ruby Frankie one, which we should talk about, but I was watching that and they could go in there and bust down the doors and find the children and take them to safety and then interview them. There's no reason. It just seems like laziness, or I wonder if there's some coercion or like, there's, there's, there's some money switching hands of let me, let me do my business. The ignorance he needed to sleep at night is disgusting. Yeah. We get a lot of creepy scenes with these women just draped all over Sam. Like, there's a lot of that and they're just giggling. And what I see when I see that, I understand to some people it could appear as like, wow, they're really into this guy. What I see is these girls are terrified and they are playing the part that they know they are, they're being asked to play. And they're doing it because A, they think that their souls need this for salvation. And also they're terrified that they're not going to have anywhere to live. They're not going to, like, these are children, children. So like, those scenes were. It reminded me of the fight, flight or fawn or freeze. And they're definitely like in the fawn of like, I'm gonna, everything's okay. I'm going to pretend like nothing's going on. But what I thought was interesting is when you looked at him, he has these shifty creepy eyes that's like, he's like, almost like hyper vigilant, like making sure everybody's on their best behavior. Like nothing, he's not truly buying what the girls are doing. It's all performance, but he's also like, I don't know, the shiftiness of his eyes just. Yeah. One showed insecurity, but also showed like the production level that he was directing. Sam is talking about, you know, power just linking him to the whole universe and speaking through him. There's a lot of gobbledygook. There's a lot of Garrick Merrifield gobbledygook in this. A lot of Keith Reneary gobbledygook. Yeah, they'd be BFFs. And he really wants Christine to get the testimonies from these girls. And I just wrote the fact that the ego on this man is his downfall is just chef's kiss. I love it. Like, and they captured it. You don't have enough. Come on over and watch my crimes and get them on camera. Some of the girls that Christine Marie is interviewing, like one is 12, 12 years old. And that one was one of Maronite's daughters. Yeah. So now we meet Julia. She's the mother of five of these girls. And she is Maronite's wife. And she's kind of quietly watching. She's always in the room. And she's just quietly watching. And I didn't even clock her until like we met her. Do you know what I mean? But like, she just has this tight smile on her face that like she either wants to take out a gun and shoot Sam Bateman, or run away and throw up outside. Like you don't know what it's going to happen. But she is in like this paralyzed state. I noticed her when they were all sitting in that room and there was probably five of them. And she was sitting kind of across from Christine Marie, at least in the camera shot. And you can just see her like smiling and listening. And to me, I was like, that's like a protective mother who can't say or do anything. Like I just thought that's how I interpreted her in that moment. Yeah. You're right. So Julia explains that she was married to Maronite for 25 years. She was scared. She was confused because they just had this leadership vacuum once Warren was gone. And she says, you know, we were taught to submit to men as the father, as the ruler of the family. And Maronite said, you know, if we go, if Maronite said we go to Sam, we go to Sam. Like that's how it works. But she said there was always this nagging voice inside of me. And I wasn't sure that we were doing the right thing. So one of the complications I have around Julia is I sometimes wonder, and I don't even know if this is relevant, but I sometimes wonder, is she feeling like, in other words, does she do this? Does she turn on them and work with the FBI and save these girls for her daughters? Would she have done that if she believed Sam was the prophet? I don't think she would. Like does that make sense? It's not about the underage sex and the girls. It's more about, because she keeps saying it like he's a false prophet. So we're being led into sin. And that scares me because I'm like, okay, if Brother Warren did it. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's a valid point. That's really kind of had me on the fence about Julia this whole time. I mean, she did the right thing. But did she do it for the right reason? It's my question. Yeah, is the under underage bride thing an issue in her value system? So Maronite had a son named Sam Levi, and he meets with Christine Marie Tolgun. He's like, since 2019, Sam has been married to seven of my sisters from age 20-ish to like nine years old. And he says saying being married is just a way of saying he can do whatever he wants with them. He's not married to them. He owns them. But Sam Levi is the one who kind of breaks the the help me like the wall here. Do you know what I mean? And he's like, none of my sisters are doing this willingly. Like they all went against their will. And Christine Marie's like, okay, this gives her hope that maybe she can get one of the girls to turn. And she even asks, have you seen him kiss them? And he says, yes, like this is her first confirmation of like, what I think is going on is going on. It's so disgusting. Mm, I'm not even gonna go there. All right, Tolgun. Meanwhile, infiltrating Sam's male followers doing a great job. We, you know, we talk about what I heard what I said earlier about Maronite being shunned and say enter Sam, who gives him a path back to salvation. And that is where the loyalty comes from. So February 2022, it's three months after Sam's confession. So every time we get those timelines, think about that is three months, these girls are having to endure this rape. Because that's what it is. Yep. Yep. So Nettie, an FLDS member, meets Christine Marie and tells her Sam is a false prophet. He's leaving these girls down the wrong path. So we're starting to see some people in the community coming forward. And Sam has this wife who sort of is always near him and clinging to him. Her name is Naomi. They call her gnomes. She kind of is throughout the rest of the documentary. She is wife number 13, and she is 23 years old. And Nettie kind of singles her out when she's talking to Christine Marie, because she's like that wife of his Naomi gnomes, she did not want to go and they just broke her down over time until she agreed to it. And now she's completely brainwashed. And having like her uncle use his position in her life of like, Hey, you know how I've done so much for you. You owe me go with my buddy over here. So can you talk to me about that a little bit? Because Carol, who is Naomi's aunt, you know, she starts explaining how LUD was the family's caretaker for 10 years. Like, what does that mean? Do you know what that means? So every family needs a patriarch. Every family needs a patriarch. So if you do not have a patriarch in your home, what is kind of a sign for you? So if that's not a family member, it'll be someone else within the church. So if you ever need like a blessing or you need like priesthood guidance, then you have an assigned priesthood holder to guide your home. So does that mean that gnomes doesn't have a father or he's just not present? It could mean that she doesn't have one or that he's not worthy. So he could be like not be a priesthood holder. So then a true man has to step into guidance. Oh, God. Okay. Wow. Okay. Carol says, we groom our girls for this. They are not taught to be critical thinkers or to ask questions. It is strict obedience and that's it. And that is what Sam is counting on. So one of the goals, okay, he does these trainings and one of the trainings is that they have these cool cards and they have to write their goals on it. Sam's goals are ready, quote, to be the most influential person on earth and to govern North and South America and probably England. What? This is also a strong comparison that I think Trump's gold card would look similar continue. Yeah, I'm going to buy Greenland. Yeah. Yes. He's also real hot on Queen Elizabeth II who at this point is what 90? Dude, he wants her alone. Jesus. So he very, very Cody Brown adjacent. He designs a biggy housey and he wants it kind of looks like the White House, but definitely with the new ballroom on it. Like it's weird and he's going to move Queen Elizabeth in there. He's like, you know, I can't and part of me was like, I'm shocked he didn't build it because these idiot men are just giving him all this money. I mean, if you have three or four Bentley's, you have money. You have money and the Queen of the Queen, Queen Elizabeth would rather live in Short Creek, Utah, South Arizona than, you know, in her own castle because yeah, yeah. Buckingham is trash compared to the Crick. Yes. Yes. Christine Marie so good at playing along and Sam even has guys his own YouTube channel. I looked at it. It's wild. It's under Fierce and Consulting. So Fierce with an N on it, Consulting. Look it up guys. She is earning their trust little by little. The girls are confiding in her, but they're getting frustrated because she's like, I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking for here. So I'm just recording the crime in right out in public care. That's all I can do. Tolga is also very distraught. Sam is very clever in that he married some of the child bride's mothers so that if a child in protective services got called, which they did a few times, he could say, well, their mothers are right here. What are you talking about? And the mothers of course would vouch. And now children also had wedding rings on that also needs to die. Wow. Okay. June 2022, seven months after Sam's confession, four more months of raping for the children. Let me just put it there. Still nothing from the cops. Christine Marie wants the FBI to be involved and Sergeant Wilkinson is like, nah, we need interstate activity for that. And she's like, well, I have it because she has recorded interviews of the girls talking about going across state lines. They went to Nebraska. They went to a few states. So now she is hooked up with the FBI agent named Dawn Martin out of Flagstaff who looks exactly like Janelle Brown. They are cousins. I'm so glad you thought the same thing. I was like Janelle energy for sure. And she comes out of Flagstaff. I'm like, this is Janelle. Moonlight is. Yes. Yes. Wild. And I used to live in Flagstaff. So as someone, when they are telling that she's from there and it's saying, we're going to the FBI, we're doing all of this in Flagstaff, I'm pinpointing where all this stuff is. I had no idea there was so much FBI. There's a hub in Flagstaff. But no, she's, I could sing her praises. She's great. She's great. So there are 23 wives, nine of them are underage and Dawn is just, she's appalled. FBI Dawn is appalled. She wants this guy brought down. But what she needs, like the first step, and she's at least able to give Christine Marie like a goal. Here's what I need. I need one of his wives to come forward. She doesn't say underage. She's like, I just need one of them to come forward on the record. Say that they're going to be willing to testify. So as frustrated as I am with all of this, I do understand that they've got to make this stick to build this case against him. But I do think they could have built it circumstantially without all of this. And she even says, why have they, why is it taken this long to contact me? Yeah. Yeah. She's like, I should have been contacted right away. Yes. So the best, so the best part is Christine Marie now starts being a little loose-lipped, right? Because she's getting more and more frustrated. So she's with Sam and the girls and she says to the girls right in front of Sam, you know, I want to tell you guys about this book, The Gift of Fear. I really think that you should read it because it talks about predators and what you should, how you should listen to your body and everything to avoid being, you know, and Sam is like, yeah, yeah, you guys need to prevent predators from getting at you. I'm like, you fucking idiot. She's talking about you. But he was definitely in like teacher mode of like, I'm going to teach you guys how to, like, he definitely put on a life coach hat. And he was wearing that when she brought that up, which I think was perfect because he was like, yeah, yeah, no, we're trying to improve our lives and become the smartest, best people in the universe. So two weeks later, Julia, the mom, starts coming around unsolicited and she's like tinkering around the yard and Christine Marie's like, ah, I think I have an in here. So she throws on her little pink raincoat. She's so cute and she runs across the yard and we see her talking to Julia. Julia tells us, I realized Christine Marie was safe. And Christine Marie, to earn Julia's trust, brings her in the house and says, I'm going to share my entire story with you. She shows her documents, pictures, everything. And I thought this was wonderful and amazing because she, she earned her trust and she connected with her. And it gave her credibility in Julia's eyes. It was perfect. Totally. And I think that she did that in a good way of did that in a good way of like, I'm going to show you some vulnerability and then you can choose to show me vulnerability and return where it was more of an exchange, not not a power dynamic or even just like even, even, even in the playing field of like, whatever you want to tell me, I get it. Yeah. Yep. Episode three opens with this beautiful metaphor from Julia and I would like to include it here. She says, it's very difficult to explain to people how all of this happened. A slide of snow, go to alliteration there, a slide of snow coming down the mountain and it begins to roll like a snowball, compromise by compromise. How does something as small as a snowflake build up to an avalanche over our heads? I thought that was really well put. So well put because you see, especially in a culture where she has little say where she's like, okay, you can go meet with Sam Bateman. Okay. She wants to marry some of our daughters. Oh, he wants to take all of it. Like, I could see how it's slowly created into this mess. Yeah. We get so many shots of Julia just sitting there watching Sam with her daughters and she was just in such a dark place and she tells us that she really thought about going to the police, but she was worried that they wouldn't just listen to one woman and she realized that Christine Marie was safe and that maybe the voices of two women could be heard. So now it's go ahead. I'm sorry. I wanted to hear your thoughts of how old you thought Julia is. Oh, I think she's probably a lot younger than she looks. She might be like 45. And she has a toddler. I know she does. It's crazy. She could be 40. Yes. Yes. I couldn't pin it because of how like their dress and their hair. Like I couldn't pin how old she is, but I was like, man. One of the things that Julia tells Christine Marie is how cruel Sam was behind the scenes. Like he would be all nice on camera and then they would leave and he turned into a monster, like calling them whores and using the F word and like just crazy. And he'd be sitting home on the computer and everyone, including the girls, pregnant, sick, whatever, everyone is out working, giving him money. And he said, what's he doing on that computer? What do you think he's doing on that? I could also see, I could see him like playing Sims, like something like a 10 year old boy would do. Like, okay, he's also doing creepy gross disgusting things. You're right. He's got the Sims. He's got the Sims and in the Sims, like he is the guy and he's got 10 wives and he's got the big house, but he doesn't know the cheat code. So he's like sending all the wives out on the career paths to earn the money. He's doing the live version and he's arguing with 12 year olds in Michigan. Like he, yes. Yes. Yep. You got it. Either that or he's a part of an MLM or try and start one. So he, Julia has a one year old son and Sam, because here's the thing, Sam starts now to, to not suspect that Julia's talking to Christine Marie about him, but he starts to suspect that she's not buying his bullshit with enough like oomph. So he threatens to take away her one year old son. If she does not, you know, get on track here. Christine Marie convinces Julia to talk with FBI Dawn. Julia tells Dawn that Sam was having sex with the minor girls and being careful not to get them pregnant. He wanted to watch and to be watched and he wanted the fathers to have sex with other women and their daughters in the same way. Like it's, it's gross. It's gross. Zooming people in to watch. Julia has, this is, this is some Epstein shit. This is why, like the tentacles of this, I think go a lot further than what we're seeing on the surface. Julia has a treasure trove of information for the FBI. She has the group communications on signal. She has birth certificates for all the girls, pictures. She gave it all over and like over the next few weeks, they're meeting in the middle of the night, exchanging evidence. Like it's crazy. It is like a full scale secret op. Yep. Switching cars, like meeting in town. Yeah. Yeah. So Sam meanwhile is growing more and more paranoid and we don't really know why. He's just getting crazy. And so he takes 22 of his girls over to the greenhouse with just him and he's got like a Nick Davis seeking sister wife bed situation. He's got two King beds put together. They all sleep together and he doesn't allow any of the men or Julia in the house. And he tells Tolga the reason he's spiraling is because his male followers, Moroni, Ludd and Terrence are trying to have sex with these girls, but also like, Ashley, they're using big fancy words in front of him. Yeah. Trying to make him look. Yep. Trying to make him look dumb. The insecurity could not be any louder. No. FBI Dawn says the US attorney for Arizona, here we go again, wanted a statement now from an underage victim in order to rest Sam. And I just wrote, this is wild. Children are being raped. Yes. This is insane to me. But here we go. Christine Marie has to play along and she and Tolga have to create a music video. Can we talk about this music? Oh my gosh, for the Queen of England, for the Queen of England. So it will seduce her to Short Creek. He is in this stupid fucking white leather jacket still. He is dancing around with these women. It's it's bizarre. I need my hands on that. Like it's a horror film. I really don't want it because there's underage girls in it. But like, I just need to live in his over humiliation for as long as possible because I hate him so much. And they were reenacting the story of a young polygamist girl. Yeah, which was like, I forget what it was. There were like stages or something, right? That they talked about. Yeah. Where she's like baptized. And then she probably is married before she's baptized because baptism is at eight. And then yeah, you know, wow. So all of a sudden, there's movement. And we learned that Sam is getting passports for the girls. And then we just inexplicably, inexplicably see him starting to flee. And Highway Patrol in Arizona is called because the girls are sticking their fingers out the top of the trailer. So you're driving down the highway. There is a enclosed trailer in front of you and you see fingers sticking out the top. Yeah, do the right thing called the police. That's what all these motorists did. But did they ever kind of see where they were going? I was wondering if they were going to Phoenix Airport because if they were going from Short Creek through Flagstaff, you can go that way because you go through Page, Flagstaff to Phoenix. Okay, okay, maybe. Well, here's the thing though. I thought the girls were sticking their fingers out of there in hopes that somebody would call the police. But what they were doing was holding the trailer doors closed because they came unlatched, which is horrifying because Julia says it later and she's right, they could have been dead on the highway. Like this could have been dead. Them and the children and the babies could be flung out into the road. Yep. Yep. So basically they pull him over and Sam will not give his name. What an idiot. He's standing there with his arms crossed and the officer's like, what's your name? He's like, Samuel. Samuel what? And he doesn't say, he's just looking at him. And then like this big tough guy behind him, this cop is like, you know, you have to give us your name and he immediately like, yeah, my name is Samuel Bateman. Like he just breaks immediately. He is such a fucking tool. He is. So that's the DPS and my husband's uncle is the sergeant of the Flagstaff area. I wanted so badly to call him and ask him about this, but I was like, I will respect your profession. But the fact of like, you see Sam being placed with men that he presumes of power, which most people do with, you know, officers, but and he's like shaking in his boots. Like the fact, like his insecurity is so loud, but he just, it's ridiculous. Like the fact that he can't even say the last name. It was like the only sense of power he was trying to hold on to. And they were like, be more of a red flag, dude. Yeah. Well, it's very Cody Brown coded too. Like Cody's like this too. Like he melts amongst big strong men. It's insane. It's insane. So the underage girls are pulled out. Their mothers are called. They call Julia. Now, Julia's in a fucked up position because she knows the FBI is building this case. And this could screw that up. So she has to say, oh yeah, officer, I know my daughters are there. They have permission to be there. It's fine. Can we stop? Listen, I understand. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't can we stop? Listen, I understand we have to respect the authority of parents in a kid's life, but like, can we stop just assuming all parents have their children's best interests out? Yeah, that's not the good standard anymore. Unfortunately. Julia is smart enough in this interaction though with the officer to get his name and number. And she passes it on to FBI Dawn so that they can coordinate this without tipping off Sam that the FBI are coming. She's very smart. I was thinking, I don't know if I would have thought ahead of being like, of course I don't condone this, but also needing to be a pawn in this. Right. Because I think for many of us, right, we think, okay, we're safe. The police are involved now. And I could just tell them everything and they'll put this guy away forever. But like, if they had done that, I don't know if he would have been put away for long enough. So he's charged with three felonies and the girls go to Target and they get Gentile clothes to wear to the courthouse. And it was so interesting seeing them just in this regular, would you say regular clothing? Yeah. Pedestrian clothing. Gentile clothing. Gentile clothing. And they post $150,000 cash bail to get this asshole out of prison. Yep. Yep. They release him on bail, but they take his phone. And the minute that Christine Marie, this was his downfall, which is so wild to me, raping girls. But this is what they are able to arrest him on is that when he gets in the car with Christine and Tolga, he's immediately like Christine Marie and Tolga, he's immediately like, can I factory reset my phone remotely? Can I wipe it somehow? And that's how they are able to get him under obstruction of justice. And Tolga asks him, is there anything bad on there? And he says, not really. It's not a no. It's not a no. And one of the girls keeps saying over and over, your whole life is on there. Your whole life is on there. So two days later, Sam is suddenly like, is someone sharing info with the police? Like, you could feel the walls are closing in. You're worried for Julia. You're worried for Christine Marie and Tolga. Very worried. So I'm mostly worried for Julia because I'm like, what is going to happen to her daughters if he finds this out? So FBI Don says, interestingly, his phone was not the treasure trove we'd hoped for, but because he tried to erase it, we were able to press obstruction charges and go get him. Now we get to sit down with gnomes and she's in Gentile clothing. What did you think I scream literally out loud when she because it it was beautiful. They had the empty chair, someone walking to it, sitting down. That was that was so great. And when she sits down and she's in regular clothing and I was like, you did it. You did it. I was so happy. I was so thrilled. I was so thrilled. And I don't know if it's her artwork that we see. I think it is, but it's amazing. She's an amazing artist too. She really is. I had no idea. So now we get to sit down with her. And like I said, she's in sweater and as my grandma would say, slacks. And she says, I believed that Sam was my salvation, my path back to God. So I was submissive and I was obedient. So episode four, gnomes says she was suspicious of Christine Marie and Tolga and she actually brought her concerns to Sam, but he chastised her and told her to trust Christine Marie. Because again, his ego is being fed off of all of the attention that he is getting from this documentary. He's never going to shut that down. His fucking ego is his downfall and I love it. Yeah, he's like, do not ruin my documentary. Like that is literally this is my shining moment. I'm going to get a star in Hollywood over this. Yeah. Little Miss Recap will return in a moment. For ad free episodes, visit littlemissrecap.com slash support. Hey, it's Angela and Vicki from the podcast Get A Grip and we are currently brought to you by Cancer Research UK. 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Better your score, better your story. They begin to craft a plan to get Sam away. They're two days away from the arrest to get Sam separated from the girls because they don't want like something crazy to go down. Him to take a girl hostage or hurt someone. You know what I mean? They got to do this in the best way they do. So they serve the search warrant. They're 50 law enforcement officials and it was interesting to hear Tolga tell it because Tolga was with him and filming and he's like, I got up and he's like, I don't know what he was doing like getting coffee or something. And he's like, I looked out not an officer in sight. I sat back down. 50 law enforcement officials just swarmed the place. It was crazy. I love that it was on camera too. The boom, boom, boom. And yeah, let's do this. He just always has this stupid Yerik Mirfield like, who's at the door? Is it Jesus? Like just an idiot. Brother Warren. Yeah, totally. So it's an intense scene to watch because the girls are just sobbing and some of them are really cursing at the officers. The children are. Yeah, I'm like, oh my God, we're allowed to use the F word this one time. Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. I was like, whoa. Yes. And Julie even says like, we were not supposed to talk this way. Like how do they know these words? Because that's when everyone would leave. He's yelling at them. So yep. And at one point, Christine Marie is like, look, I'll walk these girls out one by one. They trust me. Let's do this. And you see Tolga, he's so sweet. Tolga's like, it'll be okay girls. Let's just get in the car. And they're like, we don't trust anybody. Like it's, it's, it's intense to watch, but you know, you just have to stay centered on the fact that they're being brought to safety. For sure. For sure. It's the discomfort of safety because they're so used to this. 100%. And he, he was so gentle and like non aggressive. And it just, I love Tolga. I have a spot in my heart for him because he was like, you don't have to trust me. It's okay. It's okay. Same. Yep. Yep. So DC, now what they didn't expect and they did not plan is that DCS shows up. The Department of Children Services, is that what it is? They show up and they take the nine underage girls and nobody had expected this. So this is, the girls are seeing this obviously is a huge betrayal and they're scared and they don't want to go. And then some of them are screaming and cursing, but they're also like holding one another and sobbing. It's just very emotional. The adult lives are at Christie Marie's and they're just all crying. And one girl tells Tolga, I threw some of Sam's personal stuff out the windows. Is that okay? Are they going to find it? And Tolga's like, you're okay. You're okay. But what window was that that you threw that off? I know. He did that very good. And he's like, and she's like, do you think they're going to find it? He's like, no, you're good. And I think that was Noam's who did. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. FBI Dawn says, we had a truckload of evidence. We had seized all of the electronic stuff, calendars, et cetera, but we still needed an underage victim to talk about the sex. Like they wanted to get him on the sex crimes charge. I was so angry that they still needed somebody to talk about this. Yeah. So Julia says, immediately after this raid, I started, I left and I started my setting up my own place so I could get custody of my children back. And during this time, someone at the DCS house accidentally doxes Christine Marie, Tolga, and Julia as the informants. And Noam's is pissed. And we see some of the text and she's like, fuck off. Like it's intense. And Christine Marie is just, you really go on a journey with Christine Marie because she's so torn about her role in this. Like she knows it's the right thing. And Tolga, God bless his heart. Like he is there to say to her constantly, remember, we are saving them. We are saving them. They will be safe because she's so torn because she has to betray them to save them. It's hard. And when she says that and she like points it out, like I have to betray them in order to do this, it was like, it just showed her humanity. And like she truly loved these girls. Like one of them had even named their baby after her. Like that shows the intimate connection she had with this family for years that it was beyond. Like I truly believe she did not want any recognition for what she was doing as long as everyone was safe. And did you catch that every time she hung up with them or left the room with them, she was always like, I love you. They're like, I love you too. Like it was, it was like they were a family. Yes, it was crazy. So Julia also has to worry about Moroni. And he comes over to talk and she says, that night I talked to my husband, like I had never talked to him before in my life. I told him, we are adults, we are parents, we are following a false prophet, and he's leading us right into hell. And I'm not doing it anymore. If you want to, if you want to sit with Sam in prison, you can, but I'm not. I thought that was really good. I thought it was good too, because I think at that point, he was blinded by power and by like all the things he was benefiting from this broken dynamic. And when she points out, if you're going to do this, you will be in prison right next to him. I think that was the moment his shelf broke of like, this is, this is legit. Yeah, what I'm doing is bad. This he is not a prophet. I truly think Moroni did not even put anything together until that point. And I think maybe her saying to him, like, we are their parents, we have to look out for them. I think maybe that reached him on some level. And for her to say, I spoke to him like I never had before. I'm like, sounds like my voice on a Tuesday. Like, it just shows the dynamic that she was so silenced for her to even say, we're their parents, I can just stand up to him for that to be so bold in their culture shows how silent she is. I know. And I think for outsiders to the religion and to the culture like me, it's hard for us to understand the gravity of the silencing, like that it is drilled in their heads from day one, if you are a woman, that you have to keep sweet. Like I can't even, yeah, I don't know what to do with that. Oh, for sure. Like I think about as early as primary, so starting three, four, five, if they ask, you're taught, if anyone asks you to do anything, you are not allowed to say no. Like if they ask you to pray in church, if they ask you to speak in church, take a calling, go help somebody take someone food, you are taught at that young to never say no. Like I firsthand had that teaching and so to know that like people get into adulthood and keep that. Yeah. Because I was always viewed as defiant, which now I'm like, good thing. But like for them to keep that long term and as like women to be like, I can't tell my husband no, like I can't even imagine that world. It's so sad. It's so sad. So we do get an interview with Marona and he ends up contacting the FBI and talks to them and he tells them, Sam has raped my little girls, my adult wives and me. Does he mean that literally? I was shocked. Yeah, like do you think he means that literally? I think so too, maybe. I think it was like a power thing. Yeah. He accepts a plea agreement for, I wrote for his crimes against his daughters. He gets a plea agreement. Sam is still making video calls to the older girls and he wants them to go get the little girls at the DCS home where they're being held, the group home. And Gnomes is like, I asked what would happen if we got caught and he said, don't worry about it. They've already done the worst thing to you, which is they took me away from you. So what else could happen? And Gnomes is like, okay, so they go and kidnap these little girls. And that's a felony kidnapping. And at one point, no, so now they're looking for them. And at one point, Gnomes goes to the greenhouse to pick up food and Marona saw the lights on. And Christine Marie and Tolga called the police or did Tolga see the lights on? I think Tolga did. Yeah, I think it was Tolga. And they show up but Gnomes manages to escape by running and hiding and she like hides under a truck overnight. And the next morning she's like, I went and turned myself in. Like she outran five officers. Yeah. Yeah. In a dress, probably. She's probably in a dress. So the FBI eventually tracked them down by they went through like Airbnb and found that Torrance Bisline had rented a house and that's where they were. Loretta had them. And since Loretta was the only one who was over 18, she's arrested for felony kidnapping. You can't kidnap children, guys. That's a hard now. Julia is devastated because Loretta is her daughter. And she's like, when I went into this, I fully expected that I would be in a jail cell and that my daughters would be safe. And now here my daughter is in jail and she's just she's devastated. Gnomes starts to deconstruct a little bit while she's in jail and she realizes, wait a minute, I'm in prison for my perfect obedience. That's not making sense to me. And they accidentally put her in a cell next to Sam and he starts with his gobbledygook and he's lying to her because he says like, oh, he says, I haven't had anybody to talk to in a year. And she's like, you weren't in here for a year. You weren't here for like, you know, a month. What are you talking about? So I have a question to you. Do you think Sam knew it was her? Or do you think he just thought it was a young girl and he was just talking and spreading his lies? Like he had to know if it was gnomes that she would know he wasn't in there for a year. Yeah, I don't know. Part of me wonders if he started to get paranoid and that started messing with like his sense of time and he was getting just a little bit like, like delusional if he was in isolation, stuff like that. I don't know because if he was in isolation, it makes sense why he had no concept of time. And if it was her, then he's like, I don't know, for him to talk for four hours, four hours, I imagine he knew it was her. Wow. So how did you feel about this? Gnomes starts to realize like, I've been lied to, but it's not even my parents fault because I was born into lies and they were born into lies. And she said, once I started questioning, it was a tsunami. And when I look back, it's almost like I don't even know that person. Like it's almost like I see that girl in third person. I thought that was fascinating. Is that kind of like in your experience with deconstructing, is that kind of like the moment it happens? Oh, for sure. Like, so my family, I come from polygamy. So three generations back is like the last of polygamy. I am a product of the fifth wife. And so when I like started deconstructing and I looked back on that, and then I was like, let's go a little bit further than that of the fifth wife. I want to understand her life. And her family had a homestead in Italy, and missionaries came and taught her parents. And they left their, their homestead to come to America to follow Joseph Smith. So when I started looking at this lineage of delusion, brainwashing, intense religious following, we'll call it that. Because again, I don't think everyone who follows this is bad, but I do think that there is bad within the following because it is a high, it's a high control religion. And you can't, there's no way around that. And so with a high control religion, if you're willing to leave everything you have for a person, that's kind of when I like was able to pinpoint the destruction. And that, that really shifted a lot for me because I was just like, my ancestors abandoned everything they knew, they got here, they gave their daughter to an old man to have children. He was like, I want to say in his 50s, and she was like 19 or 20. Oh my God. And she was the fifth wife. And so when I started like looking at it through a generational lens, I was like, I really can't blame anyone, but it can end with me. Yeah. And that's very well said. And that's kind of where Noam's is. She doesn't blame her parents, right? She's like, everybody in my lineage was born into lies, but like, I'm stopping. All of the underage girls go to foster homes. And once they're away from Sam and away from each other, the dam starts to break. And one of them comes forward. They're also talking to Julia at the time a lot. I was surprised. I'm so glad that they were though. And she's kind of helping them. And one of the things she says to them is, could you have told Sam? No. And that seems to take root in some of them. So now they start to go forward to FBI Dawn. And this was huge because now they had the evidence for the sex crimes. So they're able to charge him with that. So they arrest Torrance now. They arrest Lud and five of the adult wives. And FBI Dawn, like she tears up and she says, this was my last case. I worked harder on it than I've worked ever. And she says it validated my entire career. She was gave me goosebumps, goosebumps. I mean, again, the women in this story, women helping and saving other women. Yes. Yes. And how it like gave her whole career purpose where she's been, it sounded like from how she described it. She's been in sex crimes for a long time. And for her to be able to bring this down and save like such a collective group. Just you could just see her heart in this. It was so, so touching. And I think too, like one of the things that she did right is she recognized what a treasure she had in Christine Marie. And instead of shutting her down, worked with her to tell her what she needed to help. You know what I mean? Like they worked together. And I can't say that would have happened if that was like a dude. You know what I mean? Like we saw what Wilkinson was doing, nothing. And for her to even give like a to-do list, we need this, this, this, and this. And so Christine Marie knew what to pry for and the questions to ask to get that. And she even used what her suggestions were. And she divided Sam with the women and was doing a lot more independent interviews or let me take pictures with the, with Sam and all of his wives. And then he's like, that's what took down Warren. Yeah. This moron is like, no, I don't want to get it on, on photo. I don't want to get photos of me with the children I'm raping because that's how they brought down Warren Jeffs. But take out your video camera and I'll tell you all about it. What if you want to watch them down? Yeah. December 9, 2024, Sam is sentenced to 50 years, the max sentence for his plea deal. Cause of course he took a plea deal. Yes. Fucking asshole. Nomes was incarcerated for 21 months. And when she got out, she said she was free. She felt reborn. She is learning new things every day. We see her riding a dirt bike. She eventually wants to get out of the crick. She's taking online classes. We see her in a class of Christine Marie. I love this for her. This is what you're talking about. We need a whole episode showing us what she's doing now. Yes. And it just showed she's living with her aunt who had left the FLDS. Carol. It didn't say, it didn't say when she left, but I don't think, but she was living with her. And I'm like, I bet that was so foundational to have somebody that's like, you understand what I went through or, Hey, what do you think about this? Like she seemed like a person that was a very safe place for the rebuilding. That's a good point. That's a good point. She also like is really close with Christine Marie now. And she understands why she did what she did. And that's really important. I'm sure that's very healing for Christine Marie. So now we see Julia picking up Moreta out of prison and Moreta says, prison set me free. And she also started deconstructing while she is this what we need to do. Actually, do we need to take these people and just put them in jail cells for like 12 months? We'll give them really good food. They'll be, you know, they'll have access to all the amenities they need. Well, you know what? Let's not make it gross. And let's make it hotel rooms instead of jail cells. I agree. Let's just rent out a day's in, put them all in, take the TVs out. We don't want any weight and take the phones out. We don't want any weight. Just get a journal. Yep. You get a journal, you're in a hotel room. That's it. Yes. Well, I was really thinking about that of like how the independence, forced independence caused independent thinking. And something that I've, I've recognized just living in Utah is the impact COVID had on high control religion, because when people could not attend church anymore, me included, like once I like stepped away and was like, I don't have to go to church every Sunday, I don't have to listen to people talking at me. Like I don't have to do any of these things. I don't need it. Like I think, Damn starts to break. Yeah. I think COVID had a huge impact on people because, and if you ask any, like, like my mother in law, it would be, everyone got lazy. And it's like, no, it just started to people realize that the organization was optional. And I think that's what these women got. That's interesting. That's really interesting. There's got to be studies on that by now. I wonder if there are studies about like, did the numbers drop after COVID? That's really interesting. So Julia says that she has learned that she should be able to ask questions as a woman. She and Moroni do not live together. She says, how can I teach my daughters to truly walk away if I don't, I'm sorry, I just had to point out you sneezed and your head flew off. Yes. I was like, I don't know. What was the last thing you said? Julia and Moroni do not live together. And she says, how could I teach my daughters to truly walk away if I don't? So she left the religion. Was it because he was in jail? No, because he was on house arrest. He was on house arrest for three years, which why I don't know. And then he went to jail. Now, on April 1st, 2024, Bateman pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit transportation of a minor for criminal sexual activity and conspiracy to commit kidnapping. He was sentenced to 50 years. Like I said, Moroni pled guilty to conspiracy to commit trafficking of a minor for sexual purposes, served three years house arrest and then began his 25 year sentence. And of course, I just want to point out RIP to Moroni's Bluetooth because he can't wear it anymore. And he had it on the entire thing. He definitely had a suntan line from said Bluetooth. 100%. Yeah. 100%. Eight of Sam's adult wives received prison sentences for their roles in this case. Torrance and Lud were found guilty. They're serving 35 years in life respectively. All of Sam's nine underage wives were key witnesses against him. I love that for him. Hell yeah. I love that for him. Julia has been reunited with her daughters. Thankfully, many of Sam's adult wives still believe he's the prophet. Got to work on that. It's probably the ones who weren't in jail. Well, so the way that a lot of like the Mormon lore is is like the more right you are, the more persecuted you will be. So if so, since Joseph Smith was so right, that's why he was tart and feathered. That's why he was thrown in jail when like stepping away from religion and reading just like historical documents like who would have thought. And it's like he was also having sex with underage girls. And that's why he was thrown in jail. And the people that tart and feathered him were these children's parents. Yeah. And so once you start, so like when you look at the truth versus what is taught, it makes sense why they are also following him. They're like, because he's in jail because he is right. Gotcha. We're literally taught that our whole lives. Wow. Uh, Christine Marie and Tolga still vow to work with the community. And that's it. We end with, you know, if you've been or you know, someone who's been the victim of sexual assault, you can go to www.wanttotalkaboutit.com. That's where we end. It's Dr. Paul Wilkerson, but yes. Do not call Detective Wilkinson because you'll get nothing will happen. No. This was, this was an amazing story. It restored my faith in humanity a little bit to know that there's people like Christine Marie and Tolga and Julia out there doing the work and FBI Dawn. Yes. Yes. Where it's like, it showed the good. I think I've had so much heartache and set with clients with so much heartache with all the obscene stuff that, um, watching this just restored that there is some good within the system. I hate that she retired when she said that this is her last case. It really did make me sad, but it did restore a little bit of my humanity of like there are people that just want good and want to protect children. And that, that meant a lot to me. Yeah. And I think it's important to just mention once again that Christine Marie and Tolga did not go into this to make a documentary. Like the documentary didn't come to a little bit later. They were just Tolga's a videographer and he was like just kind of filming things. And then they realized, Oh, we got to bring this down. Like it was just the device used to bring it down. It wasn't for, they didn't go in there as documentarians, I guess is what I'm saying. They went in, there's humans. Yep. Just trying to help. Just trying to help. Yeah. I have so much respect for them. I think this documentary was so well done. I would love for them to do more of like this or even a follow-up or even like a bonus episode. Like I would be so down for it. It was so well done. I agree. All right. I think we've said it all and now we're in 22 minutes. I knew it was going to be a long one. Hey, you told me to set aside two hours. So we're doing good. I did. And I want to thank you for joining me. Your experience as always and your expertise is so valued. So thank you very much. Anytime, anytime. Just let me know. Yeah. Guys, if you want to hear more about the FLDS and stuff like that, we've covered a bunch of these documentaries on, like we did Daughters of the Cult. We did a bunch of things on Patreon of Lo-Mis-Ricap. And currently we're doing the Vow, which is another high-control situation. So wait, it's kind of our thing here. We kind of are interested in these kinds of things. And just seeing people get free of them is a great story in itself. For sure. For our Pollyanna hearts. Definitely. Yeah. It's just, it's really, really hard to think about what these girls went through. But like I told all of you when we started, there is a happy ending. A lot of them have freedom and are safe. And that's what counts. And, you know, there's hope that they break, like you were talking about, that generational cycle, right? Because if they're deprogrammed, then they're not going to bring their children into this. So it ends. Totally. And then maybe they can even be a supportive person like Christine Marie to someone else. Like it's just the more independent women we can have within these cultures, the stronger it can become, like the healthier it can become. Absolutely. Guys, BDF Ashley is in our Facebook group, Backdoor Friends. If you want to reach out and tell her, hey, good hearing you. She's in there. I will tag her in the post with this. And in the meantime, if you can, if you'd like to support the show and get bonus content, you could sign up for Patreon. But also, if you don't want to do that, you can just leave us a five star review or share this episode with a friend. Either way, it all helps. And Ashley, I will tell you today, as we've record Wednesday, April 8th, it is three years ago today that I started Little Mystery Cap. Yay. What a journey it's been. I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. I certainly didn't do it alone. I have a bunch of wonderful calls, including you, and an entire community of amazing, amazing listeners. So thank you, everybody. All right, guys. That's it for us. We'll see you next time. Bye, guys. There once was a woman who lived in a shoe, a size two snug butt. What could she do? But that's not where her story ends. Thanks to a little help from her experience friends, she got her score into much better shape and relocated to a box fresh new place with room to grow and a mortgage to suit. Now she lives in a spacious four bedroom cowboy boot. Better your experience credit score to help get mortgage ready, experience, better your score, better your story. Whatever you're into, reading takes it to a whole new level because you might be into football. Stepping up to take the penalty. Imagine stepping into their boots. 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