Celtics Most Consequential Win Of Year? + Adam Silver Takes a Major Stand

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Well you were talking about like what time it is in various places. It's like permanently 1pm in this location that I am. Zero mile per hour wind. You won't see any movement behind me. But yes that's you can decide am I in my backyard or am I in a fake version of it. When he got his new studio set up and they had this beautiful screen behind them people were upset that we didn't have the backyard anymore. We sort of tracked the year by the growth in the backyard. So the backyard is back that's all I can say. You know I thought it was a screen the whole time. Really? Like even it would have been an impressive screen. There was like some December hits where I was talking about like Clay Thompson's like foggy and a little rainy out. I could like you know control the weather. This one I can't control the weather on. We just need to get a series of photos for the mood of the situation. I will say prior to taking this photo about an hour ago I mowed the lawn before taking the photo. You dressed the same. Don't have to mow it again though. That's right you'll never have to mow it again glorious. Alright Vince you were at what I think ended up being one of the most consequential games in the NBA so far this year on Wednesday night. It will be a little bit dated by the time the pod comes out but I still think that we need to pay attention to it. You were up in Boston. Thunder in town was a 12 game win streak. Yeah. 12 game win streak. Celtics both teams really had full strength right. I think there everybody was playing. Only Vlusevich for the Celtics. That's right. That's right. Nicola Vlusevich was out. What we saw was a very consequential game with the Celtics winning and what I thought was I don't like the idea of a statement game from a champion and finals MVP Jaylen Brown but I think he felt a certain way about the way this game went down. Yeah he looked like he was playing the game on a mission especially early in the game when the Celtics it seemed I don't know if it seemed like this to you Wendy and Slater from watching from afar. It seemed like the Thunder were just on the verge of blowing Boston out in the first and second quarter and you just look up and you're thinking it down down 15 and it would down like seven and Boston just kept hitting a shot or two to keep themselves close and then Jaylen Brown went and did the things that Shay Gilles just Alexander does like the step back the pump fake the lean in and I'm going to get filed by you on your shot and hit a three point play. Like there was an extra degree of force from Jaylen Brown last night. I think it's so easy. Wendy and Slater to focus on the MVP candidate so to speak you know Shay and Jaylen Brown was stuck out to me was that J Dubb Jaylen Williams was playing his second game back after missing 26 of 28 games with that hamstring injury and Jason Tatum was playing I think his ninth game and I think the conferences respectively might be determined by those players more than the stars. Like Jaylen Williams has to get it going so that teams don't load up on Shay and ask Alex Caruso and Kason Wallace and Lou Dort to make shots like there is a book defensively out on the Thunder. Not many teams can actually execute it but there is a book so to speak and it's going to be to load up and make somebody else make shots and J Dubb has to be able to alleviate some of that pressure and for the Celtics up until last night. Jason Tatum was shooting the most shots for 36 minutes in his career and I know people thinking like what does that mean to me that shows he's trying very hard to become the Jay Jason Tatum that he's always been and I don't know if he can actually achieve that this year and it might not even matter because the Celtics might just be that good they can use a diminished version of Jason Tatum and still get through the Eastern Conference playoffs. It depends on how the match goes up. So right I mean you know but he. I would say the two things you know the J. LeBron lean in one with like that was one of my favorite kind of moments of the season right the way he giggled because when did they play Oklahoma City in Oklahoma City. It was like two weeks ago. OK and he had the post game. What was the post game comedy had like I don't foul bait or like we shouldn't be rewarded. Right. Right. Yeah. And then he shot like 21 free throws a couple of games later. It's almost like he left that game after making that comment. I was like let's see if I try a few of these states and it's been working right. And I I've never seen Jaylen Brown so satisfied after a make that he was on that pump fake leaning on Shay and one. But you know to to Vinny's point and even Brian the way you framed it is like kind of a statement game for Boston. I think in a lot of ways it is is they're like coalescing and Tatum I think is has this usage rate because I think he's trying to as quick as possible get himself to a level you know the highest level he can by playoff time because it's such a shortened season for him. But on the Thunder side while yes they were whole for the first time in a while. It's such a like fresh wide rotation version of themselves. Jaylen Williams what he played 24 minutes maybe I saw him. Yeah. Yeah. Tendon the first half. He's so fresh off this injury and I think they did play like an 11 man rotation. Everybody was playing like 21 22 minutes. They're trying to play McCain and Isaiah Joe and I you know I saw you were on NBA today today Wendy with Jeremy Lynn. Yes I was. Yeah he broke it down. The last two days Jeremy Lynn I must say that yeah as a quick aside Jeremy Lynn is in for the week guys and you know we have occasionally some you know relatively major names that come through that studio. There was a bunch of folks who wanted to like drop by the studio to say hi to Jeremy Lynn. And the guy is a especially for a certain you know group is a gigantic star. So it was interesting to watch watch people like who are used to being you know they don't care about Kendrick Perkins. They were very very excited to see Jeremy Lynn. About the level of when they see Brian Wintourst. I know. No. That's some people. So but I mentioned him because he did like a little like breakdown of the way Boston attacked you know Oklahoma City and did it did seem like almost playoff game planning from Missoula and he's like trying you know they're trying to get McCain as you know the bottom man is like basically the help side guy and Isaiah Joe is being targeted and all that. And I just don't think the Thunder and Mark Dagonal especially in Jay the Williams second game back where at all attacking it as a playoff game. I think you could shorten the rotation if if you're smalls are getting exploited like that we know what type of rotation that Thunder have if they shorten it to eight or nine and just went defensive hounds out there. So so very impressive from the Boston side. But I wasn't like ringing any alarm bells on the Oklahoma City side. Yeah. It's a quick aside. I have talked to some people about the concept of whether you game plan. Will you want to show your cards in a regular season game. In fact I was talking to another one of my studio mates right now Michael Malone about it. And he said that you know he you know you may not he said it was more like that you didn't necessarily want to show you know after time out plays that you may use you know later on the season because that's one of the things I remember earlier this year. This is an aside to an aside earlier this year. I had a dinner with a with an advanced scout and his team was playing that we were sitting there watching the end of the game. His team was playing and you know he had prepared the he had just prepared the the scouting report for the for that game you know the day before two days before. And we got into a situation where his team was going to be having to defend a side out of bounds play and he goes OK I think I think his team was playing Boston actually. He's like OK Missoula is either going to go with a B or C. I'll be able to tell you as soon as they lined up what they're going to do. And as soon as they lined up he goes OK they're going with with with play B. And of course he was exactly right. He goes all Missoula Missoula goes to this all the time in this late game situation. He was right. And I'm fairly sure I don't remember how the play turned out but his team won. And so those are some of the things that you know if you have special plays that you may run you know late game situations you know after ATO stands for after time out ATO. And maybe you may not show those things but Malone's like you know you definitely could somewhat you know show a game plan that you may use like you know there's not many surprises in the NBA. He gives the what happens in the in the postseason is more individualized game plans you know for individual players what I mean like you know they may do something to an individual player that they wouldn't do in the regular season just because for prep reasons but certainly Slater is right then I do think that Missoula treated that game more like a game of consequence than the Thunder did. Yeah I think he kind of had to. I think for one when you're the champion and I said this to someone with the Thunder and he kind of nodded his head when you're the Thunder and you're the defending champion there's no more big games in the regular season like there are big games but there are no more big games to some degree you are everybody's big game. You are everybody's champion so to speak where you're used to you know playing 82 playoff games in a sense like that's why San Antonio gets up for them all the time and maybe a playoff series is a lot different with game planning and intensity and everything else. So I think for Boston especially considering they're trying to get to a certain level like they were going to take this game way more seriously they lost the game two weeks ago in Oklahoma City they didn't feel great coming out of that they felt great about the effort they didn't feel great about the result you know and add to the fact that look they're trying to fight off the New York Knicks for second seed in the Eastern Conference like home court advantage in both conferences I think is going to mean a lot in second round series we conference final series so I just think especially with the Tatum factor and trying to get him involved and figuring out where he fits with him I think he was like 11 for 31 and the two games previously going into that the Celtics needed that they needed some some positive reinforcement in a game way more in Oklahoma City this was the getaway game for OKC this is the last game of what a five or six game road trip. Five yeah. You know they're going home. A 12 game win streak too right. Yeah. More hoop collective podcast after this. But it did creak the door open for the Spurs which to me this is more of an MVP conversation than like you know top seed home court in a game seven of a West finals although you know that could be pretty critical too but isn't creaking the door open for the one seed creaking the door open a little bit for this Wemby campaign that is just rushing into your TV screens lately. Boy I tell you what I got I haven't talked to anybody in Oklahoma City so I'm speculating and I don't even mean with the organization it doesn't you know that's not even really relevant. If you're a thunder fan guy on the ground just Oklahoma's Bricktown he wants to walk around Bricktown and pull people that's like everybody else from Nebraska last week. Oh man. I gotta imagine I gotta imagine that they were that if you're a Shea fan you're pretty annoyed with the concept that he's somehow getting caught by Victor even though Victor is doing some amazing stuff like Shea is he is not slowed down like he's had a slump or something like that and his team's just won 12 they did they just lost for the first time in a month and like it's very out there amongst people who are voters like us people saying I don't know like maybe Victor and like I can just imagine that the Shea fans are not happy. Number one I was there the game that Shea hit the step back on the the nuggets to you know the game winner which felt like the clincher for the MVP. I have all the answers I just gotta wait for the question. Yeah yeah yeah that felt like okay I'm and Vegas kind of agreed right didn't he go to like minus 1000 or something that night and I'm not sure how much he But you know that I I knew it wasn't over you know why yeah there's always time. Yeah and like honestly like if it's a good move by Wumbiyama to like really vocalize it like you know and again it's it's part of why I asked Draymond last night in his press conference and he gave that four minute 40 second answer about it. I always appreciate Draymond's being loquacious but he was being ridiculous. Well the defensive part there's two sides of the of his answer and I think you're gonna get to the ridiculousness of the defensive part which is fine you can go ahead but the part I actually asked him about it's the second half of his answer which is interesting is like I believe and I think he believes that when you do vocalize as he has done in the past as he did last year and vaulted himself in the defensive player of the year campaign if you start a conversation as he did it it makes it more likely you win the award so I do think Wumbiyama doing what he did made him more likely to win MVP you can get to Draymond's other part of his argument. Well that's what Jaylen Brown did too was it like a month or six weeks ago Vince like where he was like I'm the best two-way player in the league regardless of whether it's true or not it started a lot of people talking about how great of a two-way player he is. It's amazing thing the amazing thing and I said this on a get up it's almost like he told someone hey ask me about MVP and then someone asked him and he says it's funny you should say that about MVP here's what I think about I have a three point powerpoint plan on why I believe I am MVP I have zero problem with a player advocating for himself the funniest part to me was he said there's a bit of a debate going on I didn't know there was a debate going on but he created one yeah well he's not dumb. Through the power of his own conversation and the next day it was is Victor Wimbanyamati MVP and you're forced to actually ask and consider the question I thought matters had been kind of adjudicated a little bit. Yeah well I think that we're gonna we're headed for one of you know Bon Temps is gonna do his poll here pretty soon it's gonna be one of the most consequential Bon Temps polls we've ever seen because that last poll that Bon Temps has done not only has it predicted a bunch in a row I think it's like four or five and I don't know I don't want to put on the spot but not only has he been nailing the winner but he's been nailing the percentages like in the last couple of years he got within like one or two percent of the right vote. He does a really smart thing which is he literally just asked the people that are gonna be voting he asked me every you know every time I vote every year. Are you saying that Wendy is giving Bon Temps too much credit? No I'm saying he's giving him the proper credit but the reason he gets it right is because he does the smart thing and he goes and he asks the people that are actually voting. Well you know what it's not really a poll I mean it is because he's you know the NBA doesn't publish the list of 100 voters and they haven't and they haven't even selected them yet so he can't for sure know the hundred. Yeah he's not going 100 for 100 but he's going this really smart subsection. Likely. I think what it's called in the political world likely voters. And he's not doing 10 voters he's doing 100 so he and he's doing them in all the markets like every time he does one I feel like I've got to tell everybody because I don't think you know people probably are annoyed but like he goes to you know the bone BA voters there's one in every there's two in every market I think right Vince two in every market so that's 60. Yeah. And then the other 40 are made up of international and national media in all the phases broadcast writing team media national media etc. Hey buddy. Yeah. And he makes you give you all five like give me your ballot just like who's gonna give you your asses you get your belt and you know it's funny Wendy there was one year out of the last 16 that I've not had an MVP or a postseason award and I'm still pissed at both teams for the reason why I was transitioning. We say that sounds like a bad word. I was going from Detroit to Chicago from covering the pistons to covering the bulls. I covered the pistons for maybe like 47 games or somewhere around there and what happens is the teams tell the league oh here are the beat guys these are the guys who have been coming for all year. That's right. The bulls thought the pistons were putting my name down the pistons thought the bulls were putting my name down neither side put my name down even though I covered like a grand total of like 85 regular season games all told so I did not have an MVP vote MVP vote in 2014 15 where step one is first MVP and all that and I was I was despondent who would you have voted for no stuff would have got my vote that year. Okay well they won't they won't like 65 games or whatever 67 67 there you go six first Steve Kerr season um okay so the bond temps poll will be interesting when it comes out by the way like there's doubt like as any player will tell you there's downsides to dealing with the media and you know annoyances and things that you know infuriate them whether it's fair or not so you might as well use the entire spectrum of it you know so when you have an opportunity I mean that's what I'm saying Victor smart as for what Dreymon said what was annoying about what Dreymon said was that he talked about a basically straw man argument which is you know you know why does he why does anybody have to say that you know that you the defense what did he say exactly Slater that he felt that Wimby saying defense is 50% of basketball was taken by like you know the shows that you guys are on every morning as like a profound statement of like wow we just learned today that defense is 50% of basketball obviously it was kind of in a lot of ways the self-serving side of his yeah he was burnishing his own resume yeah well welcome to the world of Dreymon green I know and by the way he took the question gobbled it up through his lens and then definitely had motives within his answers delivered it very animatedly and and entertainingly ticked off Brian Windhorse always a great checkpoint uh but yeah I mean that was him saying hey we need to pay more attention to defense as a viewing public well let me just say two things and we'll move on one Dreymond while he's had difficult days and weeks in his career he is going to go into the Hall of Fame he has four championship rings he has gold medal he is made hundreds of millions of dollars and he's regarded as one of the best defensive players of his generation he's doing okay that that's number one number two is the defense has always been a part of the MV of the MVP vote yes there are years when like Nikolay Yoko twins where a defense matters less but I won't even spend the time to go back and list all of the players who were honored for their defense the same year they won the MVP all four years for example LeBron won MVP he was all defense which did not happen every year of his career I think out of 23 years LeBron made all defense six or seven times he won MVP four times it wasn't like he made it 19 times Jordan won he was on the all defensive team four of the six times he won MVP obviously a couple years ago Yanis won defensive player of the year and um MVP I can go on and on and on I mean Kareem Abdul-Jabbar made like 12 all defensive teams and he won all those MVPs I didn't look it up but I'm sure that many of those years he was all defense I will say that I will say this to some degree you could make the case that Victor's a more impactful defensive player than offensive player and very rare very rarely there's a case I think that's absolutely true right and what my point is only with maybe Elisha Wan when Elisha Wan won it in 94 and maybe David Robinson in 95 but I think he's a better offensive player could you make the argument that the MVP was a more impactful player on defense than offense I don't think Draymond meant that what I'm saying that this is this would be a rarity in the in that in that instance if he won the award if his greatest value is on defense in a league now well let's be honest we don't say Jack boldedly about defense like the league has tilted the axis far more towards offense than it has well that was the point that Steve and A made today when I was on first take he's like if Draymond has a beef it's the league doing this I mean this Shay armbar and I don't even know if he pioneered it but he uses it most effectively which by the way Jaylin used against Shay last night and there was in that in that Minnesota Houston game which was one of the crazy games of the year there was one key play where Julius Randall basically threw a punch he he shoved I can't remember if it was Shengun he shoved that arm so hard that it almost registered on the radar gun at target field that's how much he threw that arm and it was like referee was like yeah no problem so yeah you're making a good point can I can I do a Vince Goodwill trivia question I don't know the answer to this but oh by the way right because he did it again did he did it again yes okay well I have a trivia question for him right here and again I don't know the answer maybe Jackson can look it up what was the I'm sorry I'm sorry Slater what was the question that you got right the question was from Hembo the players who won back-to-back MVPs who has the highest scoring average of those two years and the answer was Karim Abdul-Jabbar then Luau Sendar and the two years he wanted the first I think a second or third year in Milwaukee where he might have averaged 31 and 34 or something like that who had so I'm sorry say that again who had the higher scoring average the highest scoring average of if you won MVP back-to-back who was the player who scored the most another word this is like a luke based question right a shea based question shea oh shea well luke the most who won their second like if you were on no you want you have to win back-to-back MVPs okay okay yeah um let me oh so my question my trivia my trivia question for Vince uh who win and if has it ever happened or how recent has the MVP also won defensive player of the year because it's a little like win-win defensive player of the year Janus won both yeah Janus won both in 2019 and I think it had it not happened since Elijah won or did and Elijah won did it Elijah won did it in uh 94 in a light of Duncan Duncan never won defensive player to you believe it or not interesting okay let's see there's thank you Tramon was right Tramon was right oh there we are how did we get you here Jackson has the three guys and Jordan did it in 88 but he was the first yeah Jordan Elijah won in Janus okay there you go but it might be four I was put it this way I think it's gonna be shea I think it's gonna be so right now I would probably vote for shea but I would say that I do think that regardless of what Wembe and Yama's pitch was I do think that voters are looking for a reason to vote for Wemby and if the spurs pass the thunder that could be a reason how the question is okay if they pass the thunder because I think McMahon has said that maybe it was today or yesterday or something of the of the sort that if they pass a thunder it's an easy choice how close do the spurs have to get without surpassing them like it's two games well how about this how about they tie and they have the tiebreaker they want to tiebreakers then they win then they pass them then they pass okay I wonder if some of this is okay see backlash to some yes absolute no you know what I mean well first off we talked about this with with Kerr recently Slater like the procession of coaches coming into it's like a rite of passage coming into Oklahoma City playing them and then going in and grumbling about the officiating like it's it's it happens like twice a week for the last three months yeah there's like six straight thunder games or we're at ESPN right in some form of news or Mike Brown makes the comment Steve Kerr makes the comment Jaylen Brown makes the comment yeah it's right I think Chris Finch Chris Finch you know he he's parked way to get the first fastest way to get Chris Finch in a bad mood is to just to just to have him talk about Oklahoma City in fouls well I will say this and I'm with you Wendy that a lot of this is okay see backlash usually when we get these close MVP votes is some sort of usually MVP is kind of I'll say group think because it's not quite group think but I think in the space of us having these discussions all the time on podcasts and TV shows you know you wind up suing voters and everything especially in the age of transparency but usually the MVP vote is like controversial if it's close like the Russell Westbrook MVP I'll stand on the table and say if Russell Westbrook averaged 31 9 and 9 we would not have voted him MVP we had an obsession with the number 10 and we cared about it so much that he did it the next two years and it was an yes I mean that was such a narrative award I voted for Russ right and I was on I covered the Thunder team that Durant was on I went and covered the Warriors with Durant and I was in the middle of that storm that was in the way it felt like he saved their franchise at the time and I have to admit that somewhat swayed my thought process of valuable because right isn't that the whole thing of value to a franchise so it wasn't just the triple doubles the triple doubles created the created the story and you were close and you were there the rest of the 125 voters or whatever the hell it was they were obsessed with the triple doubles oh he's going to be the first one to do it since Oscar and then that created the narrative on top of the Durant stuff and in his team won 47 freaking games we don't award MVPs to players who win 47 games and don't get out of the first round I'm saying that to say usually when it's close you have two worthy MVPs I think like the Steve Nash Shaquille Neal 105 or Michael Jordan Carmelone in 97 even though Carmelone's a fraudulent MVP I think this one however close it becomes a if Victor doesn't win it when it is going to be so close that it's going to be undeniable that he wins it next year and he doubles up and this becomes like the victor era secondarily we've forgotten about Nikola Jokic being still like this incredible freaking joke and I have it so I so in the most recent thing that I did for TV this week I had Jokic third and and then Luca fourth which you know people in the studio and in the building rolled their eyes on these lake really out here well I mean Jokic has put up absolutely jaw dropping numbers he's still leading the league in in rebounds and assists people are like you know they're like you know Lucas third and assists in addition leading in points I go yeah I guess who's first the last two games Jokic has 37 assists and three turnovers I think or two turnovers something like that but I don't like doing that I don't like pushing somebody down that's what I think I hate like saying that Jaylin Brown is fifth on my ballot like that's saying you're a first team all NBA player that's not that's that's a that's a that's an ultimate compliment I don't know but yes but I think it's a two-man race you know and I will say this I did go back and look at the Westbrook Harden race because I remember that being like the is that the closest recent one that be the closest recent one it wasn't really that close it was like six in terms of first place photo was like 67 29 or something or 69 27 it wasn't super close the closest one of my career was the Shaq Nash one and um and I voted for now I was young and stupid like I don't I'm not like you got it right you got it right you just felt that Steve Nash literally changed the entire NBA yes to change the NBA we by and large we get MVPs correct there's like I said there's exceptions will we get it wrong since the media started voting in 1980 if you want to do trivia I can name every MVP from 1980 to now I won't bore you with that I'm learning about your trivia prowess yeah it's unbelievable yeah I'm just a weirdo in that way but by and large with maybe I would say over the 45 years that we've been doing this if my math is correct there's maybe three in my book that we've gotten wrong okay the state national Carmelone over Michael Jordan in 97 I was in college I can't be blamed Russell that was you can blame Jackie McMullan for a sports illustrator article where Carmelone said I'll never win MVP blah blah blah blah blah and everybody felt sympathy Jackie McMullan we call her the legend on this podcast that is not her fault that is also a good example of advocating for yourself and perhaps shifting no no that's not advocating for yourself you're you're whining that oh I'm really going to give it to Michael Jordan there are different strategies of advocating whining as one of them I had three-year-old son that's the way he attempts to do that AJ shout out to AJ yeah I think the second Carmelone MVP was in the strike shortened or like I'll shorten 99 year that actually could have went to Alonzo morning or Tim Duncan and then the rest of year in my book but the Steve Nash MVP years I know people want to say Kobe should have won in an 0-6 once again a team that won what 46 games got knocked down the first round well by Steve Nash I have zero problems with how we've awarded things by and large over the past 45 years so I remember I thought you know Kobe was probably the best player in the league in 0-5 0-6 he didn't win it I mean that was the Dirk here right I mean no that was Nash no no Dirk Dirk went to next year 07 Dirk 107 and got knocked down the first round Kobe Kobe 108 right yep so I remember thinking that Kobe was probably the best player in 0-607 he didn't win it because his team didn't do well and that was the year that the the Mavericks won like 66 or something right yeah 67 yeah and I remember in 2007-08 the year Kobe wanted I thought LeBron was actually the best player like I thought Kobe should have won it no 7 really and the LeBron probably should have won it in 0-8 and then LeBron did it with an 0-9 but I think the only vote that I regret is and I've said this before is the vote that I cast in 2018 and I have to give I have to go with I have to acknowledge MacMennum in here because in 2018 the James Hart was the year James Hart won he won it overwhelmingly he had 85 votes and I think LeBron had 15 for first I think it was only two two guys that got first place votes I can't remember Dave was hard advocating for LeBron that was LeBron's last year in Cleveland they had the fourth seed their defense was a joke all year LeBron played all 82 games and then had the greatest in my view probably the greatest playoff run of his career after that they won it was not dominant by the team but whatsoever they won two seven game series it was the year that he took out the game one game one of the finals is like the most legendary one of the more legendary performance in a loss which includes obviously the JR Smith moment and all that right and LeBron punches the whiteboard and fractures his knuckle that's also the year that he the Raptors were the number one seed and they spent the entire year like focused on getting the high seed so that if they played LeBron again they could get home court and LeBron swept them and game three he hits that running bank shot at that basically I think there was a tenth of a second left basically at the buzzer to beat him and I remember I went to the Raptors locker room like Kyle Lowry had a great year that year Demar DeRosin had a great year Wayne Casey won coach of the year and I remember going down to the Raptors locker room I loved you know I loved covering the Raptors those that was a great team um and I remember the absolute face the stone faces on Masayi Jiri and Bobby Webster their front office leaders their faces Dwayne Casey I think probably knew he was getting fired um Demar DeRosin didn't know he was getting traded but if you'd have told me when I was down in that locker room that 12 months later I would be covering the Raptors receiving the Larry O'Brien trophy I'd have told you get out of my face stop messing around so things can change fast in the NBA but I voted for Harden that year and um he wanted going away and he'd been close several years there was one time I can't remember I can't remember how close he was the year before but I was doing I was doing radio in a New York radio station I was actually in the station and um I was I did a radio hit and it was late there was probably about about this time of year it was a little bit later in April and I did I did a hit and I went to the bathroom after the hit and I'm in the bathroom and the producer sticks his head and he goes Brian are you there and I go uh yeah and he goes hey Daryl Mori is on with us next he heard you um you know waiting for you and he wants to debate you about like whoever I said it wasn't Harden was my vote and he's like Daryl wants to debate you on the air about why it's Harden I was like all right let me finish going to the bathroom advocating for yourself shocker the year before that was the rush year so then so then that then the Harden thing comes in okay so I must have said I was I did vote for us so I must have argued for us and he and he wanted to debate me on live radio I remember that um but anyway LeBron's 2018 season might be his most remarkable year for a bunch of different reasons and I regret not I regret not voting for I've said this before I regret not voting for LeBron in 2018 even though there was no way Harden was not winning but I do regret that vote well you just said it his team finished fourth in a weak eastern conference right wasn't that also the year he was like really not trying defensively near the deadline is like a basically like go go change some stuff up type protest wasn't that at least I would argue he wasn't trying offensively either basically he reduced his he went from playing at a level at a level 10 to like a level eight and you could never prove it although I don't think it was denied you could never prove it but and it lasted for like seven to ten days or maybe it was like maybe five or six games but the Cavs knew so the Cavs agreed to trade basically a third of their team and they told LeBron they were trading Isaiah Thomas um and LeBron like decided to re-engage and he had this incredible game and he hit a game winner at the buzzer to beat the Timberwolves and I've talked about this before Isaiah runs out to like chest bump him and LeBron already knowing that Isaiah was going to be traded the next day like turned his body and like hip-checked Isaiah and like they liked but flying he's like nope yeah I am not high-fiving you I remember that yeah yeah I remember that being part of like the reasoning for him not winning regular season MVP was that chunk of that season that and I and I wish Mac Meneman was here because his argument then and I assume his argument now and I mean like I've had to admit that I the more I've looked back on it the more I recognized how incredible his 2018 season was I didn't appreciate it in the moment but certainly it was you know his playoff friend was just insane um but Mac Meneman's point I hate to put words in his mouth but I think he said this publicly so was that LeBron doing that was a way to force the Cavs into improving their roster and that that could be argued that since he couldn't ask for it and get them to trade the reason they didn't want to trade anybody was because he hadn't signed an extension and they knew there was a chance he was going to leave and Dan Gilbert didn't want to be left holding a roster that didn't have a future like happened the last time when he left and so they were like well we're not going to trade a bunch of guys but guess what they ended up doing that and their team did improve and they did make the finals um and you know Dave's argument was that what LeBron did actually helped the Cavs improve and so while it it did maybe not be the most altruistic way of doing it it did help the team and therefore it should not be looked at as a negative that it should have actually been looked as you know sort of not you know mainstream leadership passive aggressive leaders should I I mean I know we're so far off the beat yeah yeah yeah yeah Wendy so last one Wendy last one because we're just we're just here so if so LeBron has four and you can make the argument for five and not to say that he should have five but if you were to give him a fifth would it be 2018 or 2011 no 2018 because 2011 legitimately he did have a down year his numbers backslid uh if you if you look at the numbers I mean part of it was natural because coming to play with Wade and Bosch but his numbers did backslide and Derek Rose was awesome and there were so many games that year where the the bowls were could have gone either way and Derek Rose carried him home like like it was kind of like Shay like how many maybe not as much as Shay because you know everything's a little bit more you know higher higher production these days but he had many many games where he was a difference making player at the end of these games no once again I think we get right by the way I didn't have a vote that year I did not vote that year well I'd left um Cleveland and I went to Miami and I was absolutely not established as a media member in Miami and I was not regarded as a national media person I was covering the heat and you know there was established people in Miami and so I did not have a vote so that year like I know I mean it's easy for me to say I I didn't have a vote so I don't I didn't I didn't make a vote for LeBron or Derek but I I think I remember feeling like Derek was the appropriate winner although you're right if you asked LeBron he should have won both years probably is what he would say I don't know he thinks he should win every year you know well he probably thinks he should have at least three or four more that's insane I'm sorry that's because I because I pour into his mouth and then next thing you know no don't get in trouble don't don't hear from anybody let's let's talk board of governors but I think I think it's safe I think it's safe to say LeBron believes he should have something more than four and I believe I believe 2011 he is indicated he thinks he should have won because of just the drama that he went through and also the year he went back to Cleveland in 2014-15 really well his numbers also backslid that year but what I think I'm not saying this is what LeBron thinks nor am I saying this is what LeBron said what I think is that LeBron felt that his role as basically putting the roster together he basically did the Kevin Love trade he basically told the Cavs go get JR Smith and then he I think LeBron also felt he was basically partially coaching the team he very publicly that's the that's part of like the Westbrook thing we were talking about earlier like value to a franchise he had a lot of value again I I'm not looking to take decade old potshots at David Blatt okay but like you know LeBron openly was admitting that he was changing plays and yes he did and you know I wrote a book about this and many different ways that he undermined Blatt which maybe he saw as he was coaching the team he kind of thought I was helping put the team together I was helping coach the team you know what else am I supposed to be executively your coach of the year um switch quick quick David Griffin I don't want to say anything David Griffin right a lot of maneuvering all right wait Wendy quick thing wait quick thing about Blatt I promise you this is really quick did you ever notice whenever you had to talk to Blatt at a press conference you would say your name and he would say it back to you that was the weirdest thing ever you would say you know Vincent Goodwill blah blah blah he said Vincent and no or my buddy Nick Fredell would say Nick Fredell ESPN and he would say Nicholas like he didn't say Nicholas he said Nick you dope geez maybe he's trying to be friendly he's trying to be personal no he was not he was not friendly at all he was an interesting cat he took an adversarial position with the media um and I hope David is doing well that's all I have to say I hope he's doing well it was a tough situation for everybody involved there were there were good people on both sides is that okay all right there was a owners meeting yesterday I don't know if you heard more hoop collective podcast after this Adam Silver talked for 40 minutes about many things mostly expansion there'll be a lot of expansion talk in the coming months and years because it's going to be years but I do want to say Vince that Adam Silver announcing that we're going to fix tanking and we're going to do it in the next six weeks I was I was like wow like we're holding a meeting in in in May and we will fix it in May I was like wow that's that's amazing congratulations like congratulations on fixing tanking good job like and a lot of people asked me about it today they wanted to talk about it all over ESPN they were like what did you think about Adam Silver said and I'm like what's the plan can I allow to see the plan before I offer an opinion so I got to say him like guaranteeing that timeline was I don't know I thought that was actually one of the more surprising things that I knew Xeattel in Vegas were getting expansion teams that was not a surprise him doing that Vince was the surprise to me it was funny it almost feels like because I wasn't I was in Boston so I wasn't able to see it but I read the transcripts it was his most like the strongest statement that he's made since banning Donald Sterling remember he stood on the on the day as and said I am banning Donald Sterling and then he paused and he was like for life that's what it and he was like right that's what it read like full stop and the fact that he's going Adam never do think about Adam Silver he never goes out and makes statements of like absolute statements like he doesn't make statements absolutely unless he knows he has the votes unless he knows for sure that something is coming to somewhere because he doesn't want to be he's a politician doesn't want to back himself into a corner so the fact that he is saying this and he said some stuff at Sloan Sloan conference in Boston a few weeks ago that indicated some of the same things I think he does have a plan I'm curious of what the plan is I think he's going to go full radical I don't know what I don't know what that exactly means but whether it is something like point differential because when you look at some of the scores on a night-to-night basis you can't stop a team from not playing their guys but if you disincentivize them losing by 30 to prove a point and maybe you tie lottery odds to point differential or my idea which is you set the lottery odds at the 35 game mark so that everything that happens after that doesn't matter like you can't tank your way into a better lottery position in February March and April like I think I don't know if he's going to be that but I presented that suggestion to him in close quarters before and he wasn't necessarily he and Mike Bass weren't necessarily like hey that's a bad idea you know what I mean like that sort of thing so I think he's going to do something strong here there's there's been like 80 different ideas he's probably going to do a handful of them right I don't think it's just going to be one little one I think they're going to try to tweak the rules in several ways we'll see which ones he lands on which to Brian's point we'll we'll you know we could probably judge the plan once it's laid out but I do think the timeline that he kind of mentions important where you say mid-May you know teams need to make trades around the draft teams need to make big decisions in the late July or late June early July and you need to know the rules when you're making big moves right you need to know what type of like you know draft pick situation you have so I do think you know learning the plan soon as soon as possible will be important to the plotting of these front offices who may want to trade future picks and blah blah blah you know moving forward yeah I mean it's really really hard to really know what to say until I see it and I'm you know the thing about it is it's like over the last few months whenever somebody has said here's my 11 point plan for tanking I've kept scrolling or I've closed the window I'm not interested in reading everyone's plan I'm not saying that their plans aren't great I'm not saying that they're not smart people wonderful people what we can say Brian is that something is going to change I think that is that is absolutely do you have a suggestion Wendy do you have a big brain Wendy thought I can do it in one sentence I don't need an 11 point plan I can do it I can't I can't tell you how he's going to do it but I can tell you what to do in one sentence what's that incentivize winning instead of losing the end I was in the words of in the words of Kanye West and the Kobe Brian commercial what the f does that mean Brian Winhorse yeah you're talking about people to call you by their name isn't that what Kanye does he calls people by yeah make it less beneficial that's what you're talking about it means that does this mean Oklahoma City could get the first pick or something if you're saying incentivize winning are you saying put everybody in the draft lottery no I don't think so no that's not going to happen that's not realistic you know what I the most important thing when you when you consider this is that and this is why I always say to people like over the decades when people have like pitched me like this is my idea for fewer games this is my idea for you know three game series in the first round this is my idea for this this and this I go remember I don't care if it's the greatest idea in the history of mankind you got to have 23 owners say yes any big thing like this you need three quarters so it can't be a vote that seven guys are going to say or eight guys are guys or women are going to say no to so you know that's it but really the thing about it is is that the teams are just doing what they're incentivized to do and right now they're incentivized they're a heavily incentivized I would say to lose and so you're going to have to make a structure where they're incentivized to win it Vinnie you know this was a full tanking segment by Ryan Wenthorse I believe we were on the podcast where you declared that this would never happen and I've pretty much stuck to it I mean to a degree you were like Adam nothing this is it I think Jackson give a ruling here I've pretty much stayed away from talking about I think I did better than I thought I would do I put it that way but this but this was you know newsworthy I said I wasn't gonna talk about the actual like analysis strategies and what you know going through like the jazz was last week and you know my one concern about Adam is that I think he's so online he pays so much attention to what the peanut gallery says that sometimes there's like an overcorrection yes I don't know how you necessarily overcorrect this like maybe this is just me hoping like a pie in the sky thing that he would consider you know something that I've said to him or one of the minions in the league office over the over the years but I think the fact that he's spoken so strongly about it I think he has some big-brained idea that he believes will pass I'm very curious what the hell it is because some things are just bad some teams are just bad and they they ain't tanking they just bad because they bad well that's one thing that Adam said and I've heard teams and I'm not going to say which teams because I'm not looking to open this conversation but I've heard a team or two split the baby or split the hair between the difference between rebuilding and tanking that no no we're not tanking we're rebuilding those bastards over there are tanking and silver the silver reference that in his in his talk yesterday that the team closest to me the team right down the road the Sacramento Kings entered the season attempting to at least you don't make the play in they had a bunch of veterans like they weren't tanking they weren't actively trying to have as bad a season as possible but they played themselves into a scenario where it was very obvious they weren't going to make the playoffs and by March it's like yeah DeMona's the bonus who has a partially tournament iskis should probably get the surgery Zach Levine who has an issue with his hand could he play through it certainly but probably should get the surgery late in the year now as they're playing these big games where you know it's like even if they are not a tanking franchise and every time Doug Christie or you know Scott Perry is asking a public setting about it they're going to be very anti we're not trying to lose tonight and they have won some games they strategically probably shouldn't have still they're doing some type of tanking strategies because it's kind of obvious they should yet they would say hey we're not a tanking franchise we didn't attempt to tank this year well that's what I was going to say I guess I would acquit the Kings of that because they went through a streak recently where they won five out of eight games yeah six and five it'll be big wins in some ways you would say and yes because they beat the Jazz disaster disastrous when they beat the Nets disastrous win and by doing that they have now moved out of the bottom three and the bottom three have the same record the same not the same record but the bottom three have all the same odds so what you want to do is be in the bottom three I think it's bottom four a flat no it's bottom four yeah oh are they in the bottom four the bottom believe and they've got five but you know there's been some wins lately where you know like the the wizards smoke the Jazz yesterday which was something and the Kings well the wizards are safely in the zone okay sack no no the top the top it's still very good for the fourth but the top three have the have the same odds well one of the main things what like you know the Kings were in pole position to be the worst team in the league and now Brian we are getting deep into a tank conversation but the Kings were in pole position for the worst record in the league Jackson's going to use it against me and then they won six of 11 and they leap to you know whatever fourth or fifth in the problem but that is when you are the worst team in the league you do have the flat and lottery odds where you have the same odds as you know two three four but if you don't get one of those top four lottery positions you have a guaranteed fifth pick and in this draft to if you have the worst record in the league at the end there you have a guaranteed top five pick where now a team like the Kings could backslide to six seven eight where you know if they had stayed a firmer course they could have had a guarantee this is the last thing I'm going to say but go ahead then what happens when the what happens when the Milwaukee Bucks get the first pick well then basketball they can you know what I mean no because it goes to the Atlanta that's right is where it will go it will go to the Atlanta Bucks the best of the Bucks can do is get the second pick that's when people will really scream conspiracy if the Bucks get the first and the Pelicans get the second so the Bucks get the second pick is like you have to doctor up to nobody's gonna think that they're gonna conspire to help Milwaukee no offense to Milwaukee but to NBA fans believe in the conspiracies more than any other sports fan like block ever if the Bucks do get the first pick you're gonna look at two there'll be two stories of that number one wow the Atlanta Hawks who you know look awesome by the way had a huge win in Detroit last night have this rising young core will then get hoop Darren Peterson you know AJ DeBans and whoever that'll be interesting and also man how are we gonna look at that Derek Queen trade for the Pelicans if that happens let me just this is the last thing I want to say on it and then I'm going to end the podcast this is the last 10 games for the top teams in the lottery Indiana lost one in nine Brooklyn one in nine Washington one in nine Utah two and eight Dallas two and eight Memphis one in nine Sacramento five and five bro hey and by the way and they fall in multiple positions so yeah and like the Rosen had like a basketball maybe they will maybe they will jump up maybe they will jump up finish the job yeah I was gonna I was gonna give you a warrior segment of like the dark times in San Francisco but we can one second we can push that we'll have we'll have yeah there's still gonna be dark times next week I'm sorry about Moses movie you know you know what sucks about that more than anything other not only the fact that he obviously has this terrible injury but that he's a free agent no he's not oh he's not he's got one year left no no he's got he's this in year one of a three year 39 million oh my god that's total brain fart you know that's let me take that back Jackson make don't make me sound stupid thank god he signed that contract extension there you go I totally forgot he signed the extension that actually makes me feel better yeah it just it personally is good for for Moses movie but you know when we when I'm be you know talking about these dark times for the warriors they now have two players on their contract next season one making 58 million one making 13.9 both of their starting wings are going to be out I would have to a new season and the next season is like you know this huge like you know can they have this final grasp at the Steph courier and if they try to rearrange the roster and it's just that's that's part of the story that is developing within the season and again we don't need to get into another segment on Steph's knee injury although that is a very important thing like where is his you know later stages of his career going but this really disastrous turn in their season is really starting to impact next season in a bad way I know that this will provide absolutely no solace but I'm going to say it anyway this is why when your team is able to through great management great players great fortune go to six finals in a decade actually what was it six finals in eight years or nine years yeah yeah five straight right um you have to cherish that incredible run because the the amount of things that have to go your way to do that is this I'm saying like this is why I think LeBron LeBron going to eight finals in a row is just absolutely incredible in this day and age um Jackson's final comment on the matter if the podcast is a car we have to understand that metaphor sometimes the road of storylines have forced us through some tanking states but we try to avoid them Jackson keep producing don't make content that's what I would say Jackson actually is just over the moon you want to know why because the Jerry Mackimer yeah they stayed in the family in the higher Jerry Mack yeah that never burned you yeah he's he's he's so excited he's already cleared next year he will not be available on this date he will be at the Syracuse Final Four okay or I mean sweet 16 there'll be at least a sweet 16 not the final that would be big for them too it's not getting ridiculous um he says we'll do a live pod in Syracuse Canada at this point listen my guy in Syracuse Alex Klein the GM got fired so that was my connection in Syracuse I don't know anybody else from Syracuse I know none of them nobody else I've ever met has ever been in Syracuse never never never um all right thank you so much to Vince thank you so much to Slater thank you much to Slater's backyard thank you to Jackson Tucker and our other producers thank you for listening and watching The Hoop Collective we'll talk to you next week