Hey, it's Kate Snow, NBC News anchor and host of The Drink. This month, Demi Lovato is my guest. The global superstar tells me that she is the happiest she's ever been right now. But getting there, it wasn't simple. Demi opens up about starting in Hollywood Young and why she now thinks she may have started too soon. She talks about recovery, her new marriage, and the deeply personal reason behind her new cookbook. The Drink is always about the journey to the top, and this was an honest conversation about what that takes. Hope you'll listen and follow The Drink wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone, it's Andrea Canning and we are Talking Dateline, and today we are talking about Blaine's episode called Temptation. Hey, Blaine. Hello, my love. How are you? All right, yeah. There's so much to unpack with this episode. Yes. And if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the Dateline podcast feed and then come right back here. Later we'll have an extra clip from Juliana's testimony. Then Blaine will answer some of your social media questions about this episode. Okay, let's talk Dateline. Let's do it. Blaine, just give us a recap on this episode. Sure. So this is something that happened in Northern Virginia in a suburb. You have Christine Banfield, who is a pediatric ICU nurse, her husband, Brendan Banfield, and their au pair or live in Nanny from overseas, Juliana, and they have a little girl. And so one morning, basically, Juliana says that she sees a strange van pull up in the driveway and the husband and the Nanny essentially go upstairs and they say that they find Christine, the wife there with Joe Ryan, kneeling over her, stabbing her. Brendan shoots him. And so you have two people dead, Joe Ryan and Christine Banfield. Police say from the very beginning that something just doesn't add up. They start looking into the digital footprints of each of them and they find that there have been these communications on this sexual fetish website that seem to have planned a meetup at the Banfield's home. Well, detectives soon realize that even though Joe Ryan is the person who is on one end of these conversations and that's real, that the other person, the profile supposedly Christine, wasn't her. And so they say, okay, this is a catfishing scheme. Somebody set this up to make it look like Christine wants these wants him to come in. Who were these people? Well, as the investigation goes on, they realize that it was Juliana and Brendan Banfield who were basically posing as Christine to use that as a piece of their murder. This is a very, very twisted story beyond. Yes. One of the most twisted stories I've seen in a long time. And let's get into it by just how you open the whole show, by really focusing on the daughter and all of this, the four-year-old daughter. It was unbelievable because, right, she's four years old. And so she certainly wasn't conscious of what was happening. Even as all of this was going on around her, the subsequent arrests and trial, it's very likely that she just didn't have a full grasp of what was going on. But later she will very much grow up. I mean, this case was all over the news. She will know that the details of what happened to her mom at the hand of her dad, and she'll know that she was in the basement for that whole thing. And so I just thought about just the later trauma that's going to come to her. Also, I mean, she's four years old. My oldest daughter is four years old. And so it really just pulled at my heart in so many different ways. I could see it on your face. And for me as well, having just come out of the young children phase, I still have one. It's just unimaginable. What struck me as being so incredible in this episode is we have a lot of episodes where we have body cam, we have 911. I mean, this thing played out like it felt like you were there. I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a date line this much in the moment where it starts with 911, then you've got body cam. So you're seeing inside the house, you're seeing the nanny, you're seeing the husband, then you're seeing the husband in the ambulance, then you're seeing the husband at the hospital. I mean, it was remarkable. I think the moment that stands out to me, and I was shocked that we had this, the video of Brendan when he finds out that Christine has died in the hospital. Oh my goodness. I marked that down when I was making notes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. I mean, the fact you see his reaction and then they, you know, a chaplain comes in, they say, Lord's prayer together. So all of this in the context of later what prosecutors, you know, kind of string together is what their plot was. It's mind blowing. And you know what surprised me? One, and this is, as I was going through the interviews, you know, everyone keeps talking about he's an agent, he has an, you know, an issued weapon. It took a lot of questions to find out exactly what his specialty was. He's an IRS agent. He's an investigator with the IRS. And so I had to get several people to walk me through that because I was like, what is, is he arresting people for IRS crime? Like what exactly is that? Nobody could give me a definitive, like, what does it look like when he's arresting somebody type of thing? But yes, if there's tax fraud and these sort of investigations that kind of fit into that, that's his, that's where he comes in. But yes, he's basically deputized. I mean, he can carry a weapon, all of those types of things. Just going back to that prayer for one second. I mean, it was chilling when you know, like what we know now, right? It's chilling. And you look at it in the moment, and I was trying to see if I could tell if he was acting or not. Like I didn't get this impression that he, you know, oh my gosh, he's acting or he's not crying or, you know, you know, like how law enforcement always is pointing out things like he didn't look like a grieving spouse or he didn't look like, I thought he looked somewhat normal for the situation. I don't know. What did you think? I mean, I think that if I have learned nothing else in my time at Dateline, I've learned that everybody grieves differently. There are no two reactions that are the same. And so kind of trying to read the tea leaves, even though we do it, investigators do it, people do it all the time. It really can often be a futile effort because sometimes people are overcome with grief and they're the ones who killed the person. Or sometimes they just really are very stoic and that's just their coping mechanism. Maybe they're in shock or whatever. And amazing that there were people at the police department who really thought Christine brought this on herself in the way that she was not being killed, obviously, but that she was actually on the site. That she was a participant. She was willing participant. It was the opinion of the data analyst, essentially that if you can't see someone else doing this, how can you prove that it wasn't this person? Right? I mean, there were just kind of varying degrees of how do you prove something and where do you fall on this? Whereas the other detectives, if you heard, they were like, there's no other way. There's no other explanation for what this could be. You're not just looking at these data points. You're looking at the entire context of who this person was. And when you explore her in this context, there's nothing that leads you to that. And who knew the rabbit hole that they were about to go down with this fetish website? Gosh, it makes my life feel so boring when I hear about these websites out there. And also you trying to figure out, what the heck is this? It's very interesting to me that there are so many things happening that I just have no, I had no frame of reference. I had no understanding. I just learned a lot in doing this episode. And you could see it. You were learning in the moment. I was like, it's play fighting with swords, but with costumes kind of. And again, no disrespect or anything toward those who are interested in this. This is just a very new and all of this was very, just very interesting to me. So I really was learning in real time as I was doing those interviews and I was trying to get them to explain it to me in a way of like, how will people understand this? Like, how do I understand this? I just kind of put it, you know, act almost not visualize, but give it to me in terms I can understand. It was interesting to learn more about this kind of fetish community because the investigator said that one thing that was really important was once they started talking with other people that Joe Ryan had connected with, they found that even with what they were acting, he was very respectful. There were boundaries. They were always clearly communicated. Everyone was very into like permission and boundaries and consent and everything that was such a big piece of it and that he was very much following and had always followed those rules. And so that's what made investigators kind of say, yeah, this doesn't seem to add up to the person that everyone else says that they that they know. Because you want to jump to conclusions with someone like Joe Ryan, you know, you surely are like, oh, he must be violent. He's on this website, whatever. But then the turned out that was not the case. Ryan was like collateral damage, collateral damage. Yeah, that's exactly how they treated him in this. Absolutely. When we come back, Blaine is going to share an extra clip from Juliana speaking at trial and her insights into that. Full of decency is the KFC. Don't care. Don't UK. Hey, guys, Willie Geist here, reminding you to check out the Sunday Sitdown podcast on this week's episode. I get together with stand up comedy superstar Nate Barghetti in front of a live audience at New York City Winery to talk about his rise from small clubs to sold out arenas around the world. You can get my conversation with Nate for free wherever you download your podcasts. He was a young Marine. He didn't care about convention. They made a life together. Then one night, the Marine died. And then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected and utterly bizarre turn. I'm Josh Mancowicz and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dateline. Listen to all episodes of Trace of Suspicion now, wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about this relationship with Brendan and Juliana. And you talked about this in the show. A lot of people have au pairs. I mean, I had an au pair for my whole childhood. So I was drawn to this story from the very beginning, Andrea, because I'm an au pair host mom. I've hosted au pairs to care for my kiddos. So the way that I first learned about this story, believe it or not, my au pair at the time, this was making the rounds in their kind of au pair chat groups and their networks. And she's like, Blaine, have you heard about this story? This is before this is before Juliana's arrested. Wow. This is before all of this. This was back at the very beginning, just the fact of like, oh my God, a host mom got killed and this au pair was in the middle of it. It really was big news in the au pair community. So she brings it to me. She's like, have you heard about this? I'm like, oh my God, no, I haven't heard about this. Mind you, this is a first blame. Yes. To get a story tip from the au pair about a questionable au pair. I'm sorry. Continue. No, it's hilarious. So she and I had a fantastically close relationship and still do today. And she's also from Brazil. So that's another piece of it. So you're talking about this Brazilian au pair network. And so she's hearing through the grapevine and she's telling me, I'm like, oh, that's crazy. So watching this unfold, I was like, oh gosh, I really want to do this story. But also because I know the beauty that the au pair host mom relationship can be, like how beautiful that relationship can be. So I mean, staying in each other's lives, like we were, our au pair got married, we were all in her wedding, right? Like my husband walked her down the aisle. Oh my gosh. We were very close with her entire family, at her parents when they've come to visit, like the whole thing. Oh, you're a special au pair mom. Well, she was a special au pair, I have to say. But to go on beyond that, yes, this notion that inside her home, I mean, there are so many levels of betrayal here. Inside Christine's home with her husband, the person she's trusting to take care of her kids. And also this is kind of like a weird heart string thing that only moms will understand. The Banfield daughter really loved the au pair, right? And this is somebody who again is cheating with your husband and plotting all these things, but like has the love of your child. I couldn't even. It's hard to wrap your mind around it, right? I mean, that's something that there are so many levels and layers to that. Such a betrayal. They're in the house, they're interacting with your family, your friends and, you know, I mean, yeah. There are, you know, the age range of au pairs goes from like 18 to 25, I want to say 26 is when you officially age out. There is a wide range of maturity that kind of falls within that spectrum, right? That's true. You get 18 year olds, but you get somebody who's just very grown and mature on the other end and you just sometimes don't know what you're going to get. And so that's why you do an interview process before there's lots of FaceTime's, lots of Zoom calls, right? Like, I mean, really is somebody kind of described as like almost speed dating, like you're trying to figure out like who's going to be the best fit for your family. You FaceTime and, you know, and so one would imagine that Christine thought that she, you know, had a connection. The other pieces I learned from her friends that her experience with her first au pair was fantastic. She had a really close relationship with the first young lady. Gosh, talk about 180. That's what I was saying. Exactly. So of course you go into your second au pair thinking, okay, it was a great experience the first time around. Let's go for the second time. And they had that thing in common of Juliana had worked in healthcare back home in Brazil, according to Christine's friends. So she's thinking, okay, we have a connection, right? And she was very wrong. Yeah. I was a nanny for David Hasselhoff, which some people know. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that. Yes. And for his two little girls and, you know, that I actually started as an intern at Baywatch and that's how that relationship was formed. So they really knew by the time they asked me to move in with them, they really knew who I was. You know, they're living there. Yes. Yes. Like you see everything, every single thing. You're not a, you're not a fly on the wall. You're like, you're part of it. You're part of the family. Yeah. Essentially. And, you know, when you're hosting an au pair, it's not just like, okay, this is my boss, right? But like the terms host mom and host dad really are used with, with like intentionally because I mean, these are young people, you're bringing them over. They're coming for an experience. There's the cultural exchange, right? Like we would do things like, you know, our au pair would cook for us. She would cook Brazilian food and we'd take her out and do this. I mean, it really is this kind of, she was teaching our kids like Portuguese, like, you know, like, like, you know, my daughter speaking Portuguese, like you're going to be getting social media DMs from au pairs everywhere after this saying like, can you hire me? Um, but it's a fun experience. Yeah. If it works well. If it works. Yeah. Let's just continue this thought of Brendan and Juliana in this relationship. We have a clip of more of Juliana's testimonies. Let's listen to that. So you began a sexual relationship with the defendant in August of 2022 when you were how old? I was 21. And when this relationship began, did you ever think about how it might end? No, I didn't really think it was serious a relationship. And did the defendant ever talk with you about any long term plans for the two of you? Not initially. Not initially. Did he ever though? Yes. When did that talk start? I think he started after he talked about his plan. Okay. And did he ever talk about the two of you getting married or the two of you having children? Yes. And did you take any photos of you and the defendant after you began a romantic or physical relationship? Yes. And you said you had posted some things to social media? Yes. Okay. In that post, who is present in that post? His person behind the emoji. And who is behind the emoji? Brendan. And is it you and Brendan singing in that post? Yes. I was just beside myself with these posts that she was making. Oh gosh. These social media posts. Oh my, I wrote OMG, the bathtub photo, the emojis. She's got emojis over the face of a grown man. What the heck? I thought that was the strangest detail. I mean on a couple of layers. One, it really does show and shows the relative immaturity of Julianne. Oh my gosh. Again, a young lady, you're posting, you got all this stuff, but you got an emoji over his face. And then Brendan, the other piece though, is just kind of like again, social media. Social media is going to be the downfall of everybody. Like wow. Maybe just don't post. Maybe just don't post. And then also the photos next to the bed. Like photos of themselves. Like they didn't think there was a chance. Like her clothes in the closet, they didn't think maybe police might look at us for this crime and they might at some point have a search warrant and come and search the house and see all this. And the crazy thing is for as much thought as Brendan put into this, right? As much as he understands how investigations work, all of these things, that was something that apparently was not part of the calculus. But police told me they were like seeing that house. One, the fact that all of Christine's photos were gone. So your mom, you know, your wife, the mother of your child has been murdered brutally. You'd expect to see the pictures. You'd expect to see the house pictures, the family pictures around the house rather. Those were all taken down. They were all, it was like she was erased. And then yes, Julianne had moved her clothes in. She had her lingerie lying around. She had this kind of couple boot up picture, if you will, sitting next to them on the nightstand. And so I can't. Investigators say that if they had any doubt before seeing that was just what made them say, OK, something's going on. We're on the right track here. Yeah. Let's talk about Julianne's proffer where she is about to reveal exactly what happened that morning. It wasn't until Brendan was arrested. And that's when, you know, they told us, OK. And then there was a change. And Julianne's attorney called and said, you know what? She wants to talk. Here's what's crazy. So just even leading up to that, Andrea, again, she was quiet. I mean, she was holding the secret, spending all these months in jail while Brendan was out free. She wasn't saying a thing. She never cracked. She never said anything. But they're writing these love letters back and forth to each other. I hate you. We're wild and enough themselves. We couldn't put as much detail of the letters inside. But I mean, the letters were very, very detailed. They were very just syrupy, sweet love bombing. One of the investigators said love bombing to me, and that's exactly it. At one point, he's writing out song lyrics, Matchbox 20, Push, which was an odd song choice, in my opinion. But he was writing out song lyrics to her. I mean, he's talking about what he loves about her physically. I can't believe that you're mine. All of these things. So detectives are reading all of these, of course. And so but Julianne is still not saying anything. That's what was shocking. It wasn't until Brendan was arrested. And that's when they told us, OK, then there was a change. And Julianne's attorney called and said, you know what? She wants to talk. And she talked. If there's one thing that stands out to me, Andrea, about hearing Julianne talk both during her proffer and during her testimony on the sand, is just how even she was. I mean, no emotion, no remorse, no anything. I mean, she really is just laying out this plan in a cold, almost matter of fact kind of way. And the prosecutor who had been working on it at the time told me he was like, I couldn't sleep that whole week. But just hearing that was so disturbing to him. What was really hard to hear was Julianne talking about the plan, turning off Christine's phone. You know, Brendan waiting in the bathroom of the McDonald's. She's just, you know, letting Brendan know Joe is here. You know, it's just, it was so planned out and methodical and just yuck. During Julianne's proffer, she talks about the fact that Brendan kept saying, Christine's a bad mother. She's a bad mom. She's lazy. She doesn't do this. She doesn't do that. And so there was this strange, like that was just seemed to be part of the calculus of it or even just kind of the warped justification for putting together such a terrible plot. And I really didn't get the impression based on, I mean, we don't, we don't know this family, obviously, but based on listening to the friends. And you know, Christine was like this hardworking mom. She's going to work. She's like helping to pay the bills and she's raising this kid. And I just never got the impression somehow that Christine was a bad mom. I mean, she was the exact opposite. She was a fantastic mom by all accounts, by what everybody's saying. It was important, I think, in the defense to have Brendan testify because this is a case of self-defense, according to Brendan. And I think juries, when you are a victim of something where you have to defend yourself and your wife is being attacked, they are going to want to hear from, they want to hear your story because they want to see you. They want to read your body language. They want you to recount what happened. I mean, it was very important, I think, for him to be up there, even though, you know, whether you believe him or not, I think it was important. Because the story that he was, that Brendan was saying was his story, was so different from what prosecutors were watching, obviously, right? The same, same end result, Christine, Joe Ryan are both dead, but he has just a completely different story. I do think that, yes, hearing him on the stand is one thing, hearing him tell his story. But in talking with the prosecutors, just there was so much, his body language, but also his demeanor. And one of the things that stood out to, for instance, Drew Wilder, the reporter we talked to, was just how his demeanor changed when he talked about Juliana and he kind of perked up and he talked about her. But when he spoke about Christine, again, who according to Brendan, in his telling of the story, was his wife, they had no problems, they were very loving. When he spoke about Christine, he, it was very minimal. He mentioned her very little, very rarely mentioned her by name. It was just a very different way of relating to her when he was on the stand than he did to Juliana. The judge was limited, obviously, in what she could give Juliana. They gave her something 10 years. The judge gave as much as she possibly could. I mean, it's one of those things where, and I asked the former prosecutor, I was like, that just doesn't seem to sit right, that she has even the possibility of walking away after all of this, right? And so, I mean, and their mindset, of course, was, she gives us the big fish, which of course is Brendan. Sadly, this happens a lot where if one person turns on the other, they get the sweetheart deal. And even if they're complicit, and that's exactly what happened here. It's one of the most chilling datelines that I've done. Thank you, Blaine, for this portion of the conversation. As I told you in the break, we could have talked about this all day. So up next, you are going to answer questions from social media. Sounds good. Okay, we're back to answer some social media questions that you all had after watching the episode. Blaine, we got to hear her thoughts. Okay, Blaine. Yes. So the first one is from Susan Lynch Kaplan. She's on Facebook. She asks, was the four-year-old daughter with her father and the nanny after his wife was killed? So were they taking care of her together? Yes, they were. She was right there in the house. I mean, anytime we talk about this little girl, it's just sad, it's disturbing. But yes, she was there in the house being taken care of by her father, of course, and by their au pair. Tony Skornavaka, Jr. on Facebook says, I've watched maybe hundreds of Dateline episodes. Okay, we love that, Tony. This murderer is in the top five of people with the most twisted brains. Imagine dreaming up this plan and thinking that it would work and everyone would believe you. And you just live happily ever after with your 22-year-old wife who would replace the mother of your daughter and you would have a normal life, including the part where you kill some dude that you've never met. Yeah. I mean, I think and then add to that, Tony, because they're absolutely spot on. Add to that, then you live with the knowledge that you killed your daughter's mother, right? You took her mother away. There are so many things about this that are just twisted and everyone we spoke to, all the officials, the prosecutors, everybody kind of echoed the same thing of like, gosh, we've seen a lot of crimes. We've seen a lot of evil, but this one really takes the cake. Yeah, and it really is something that a Hollywood movie writer would come up with. This just does not feel real. No, absolutely not. The next one is from at J Grace 0727 on Instagram. She says, people just need to learn how to move out of a house and get divorced. How many times have we heard this? It's like every other episode, Andrea. We have that conversation, right? Because it's divorce happens. Lots of people do it. I mean, plenty of people go through it every day. And so it is not the end of the world. What is the end of the world, however, is deciding to take somebody's life. And it's interesting because in this, in Julianne's proffer, you actually hear her say, quoting Brandon, that he said divorce is not an option. So instead he launches this elaborate plan. But yeah, he said divorce is not an option. I don't get it. Leslie Johnson on Facebook says, I found Brendan's attempt to stifle his smirk when he was talking about Julianne's advances quite telling. A lot of people notice that. You have a very keen eye. A lot of people notice that. I noticed that as well when we were first watching this one. I was watching the testimony. And I think that that's one of the things that really stands out. The prosecutor kind of actually talked to me about that as this kind of like self satisfaction, right? This like, I'm so glad to describe how she's so into me. It was a very weird thing to watch. But yeah, a lot of people picked up on that. Okay. So Louise Kusyn Kettner on Facebook says he was slow to answer every question as if he was truly thinking of how to answer it was all made up. Something that's interesting in cases like these, you never know if the person who is facing the charges is going to take the stand in their own defense, right? So much of it comes down to lackability and believability and what the jury thinks about you, not just the words that are coming out of your mouth, but how are you coming across? What's your demeanor? Just does the jury like you and does the jury believe you? And I will say that, you know, this was one of those trials that was watched very constantly throughout. Lots of people commenting and the comments about Brendan when he took the stand. It really was clear that a lot of people didn't like him, didn't believe him. At reality doc on X says, I think Juliana is as cold as she seems, but likely truthful. She admitted to her horrific part, but she wasn't the mastermind. Without her, he'd have found another woman, but without him, the victim would be alive. Hmm. I think that's very true. The prosecutor said, you know, she was like somebody who was detached, almost like detached from the reality of the fact that this was happening. Just detached, I think was the word that I kept hearing in describing Juliana. Cold. Yeah, it was another one, but detached was was one that kept coming back. Something is missing there with her. Are you ready to blush? You ready to get a compliment? Sure. Stephanie Snead, folks on Facebook said, Blaine, I typically listen to the Dateline podcast and have loved your work. Tonight, I saw you on the TV episode. Not only are you a remarkable interviewer, you looked beautiful. Love your braids. That's so kind. Thank you, Stephanie. I appreciate that. I have gone through a hair evolution in my career. I used to wear it straight, pressed with weaves, like long, straight. Then during the pandemic, nobody could do my hair. So I just had to wear it natural because I had no choice and I had to figure out how to take care of it and then started wearing braids when I became a mom and I didn't have time to do my hair every day. It's beautiful. That's how we're here. That is it for Talking Dateline this week. Thank you for such a well done, thoughtful, great interviews, compassionate episode by you and your team. Thank you so much. And your team, of course. Thank you. Always great producers. Shout out to Mary and Donald. Always great producers behind everything we do. And there's so many more people to name than that, but she was the main producer. And Rachel White, right? Was on that as well? Absolutely. Booking. Yes, in booking. Yes. Booking is really important on Dateline as well because we have to book the interviews and that's not always easy when you're dealing with a subject matter. So thank you to Rachel as well. And we've got some very exciting news. Dateline's Missing in America podcast has been nominated for a Webby Award in the Crime and Justice podcast category. So we can't win without you. Please go online and vote for Dateline. We've included the voting link in our episode description. And remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can reach us 24 seven on social media at Dateline NBC. DM your audio or video on our socials at Dateline NBC or leave us a voicemail at two on two, four, one, three, five, two, five, two for a chance to be featured. Thank you for listening. Friday night on an all new Dateline. Alice, come home with me. The desperate search for a missing sister. Every corner we turn, there's another door and we open that there's another door. You are smack in the middle of a true crime mystery. I know. It gives me goosebumps to think about it right now. An all new Dateline Friday night at nine eight central only on NBC.
