Are Mormons ACTUALLY Christian?! | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Do you know why your life feels dead? Because everybody's pouring into you and you're not pouring in to anybody else. Nothing's flowing. The antidote towards your obsession with self is just you, sir. Satan is fine with you becoming a more moral, happier person on your way to hell. He's totally great with that. It is interesting that when Jesus walked this earth, for Jesus it was not all about Jesus. It was all about others. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Lea Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Razzó. I'm just from Lea. He's like, I'm here with Touch the Glass, Hark then in Pesor, Paul Cunningham singing Captain Planet. He's a hero. And that's not true because Jesus is a hero. Captain Planet. Ah, we just got Jesus juke on Captain Planet. We were doing a vintage early 90s cartoon dive. How did you, why did you bring up Captain Planet? He did. I said he's in Broadway like two times. He's a favorite show. To show people what the Trinity is not, but then also what Mormonism cutting is. Only in the Lea Free Podcast. And only with Chad G. Paul C. Will you ever hear a connection between Captain Planet and the Trinity? That's exactly right. And Mormonism. And which we're talking about today. Hey, that's right. Hey, by the way, we are coming to you from Snowy Dallas, Texas. Yeah, that's right. We're at Point Church. And today we're going to be talking about Mark chapter 10. Jesus teaching us how to pursue greatness. Okay, cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering cheering know if we really are in a propaganda war about ice is what I know we're going to go there as well and we're going to be doing a deep dive on Mormonism are Mormons actually Christians or is it just another domination or is it a cult and so man it's great episode and the passage we got to have here what's our passage we're going mark chapter 10 marked in this is a good passage man why did say it but you played god damn it hey here's what i want to know did you watch goodwill hunting this week i did not the tbs version i did not but you know what i actually i want to watch it you got that's my next one you got to it's not your fault that you didn't watch it sorry it's it's not your fault you'll get that when you get it when you see it why did you say that you you'll get it when you see it hey did you say by the way that there were some people commenting on our arm wrestling match because i have not read the comment they talked about the utter domination i got multiple from from a five eight hundred hundred i'm curious we have multiple text and emails things like unfair starting advantages wait what i have it right there unfair starting advantages do we need to do mandatory testing of cretin levels and that's a cretin every single day and that may that may be your thing maybe i just need to do that you know what cretin i do not by the way bro you gotta do cretin listen listen this is not a band substance for the yeah you know what this is this is like this is like a program and listen listen 100% natural right here look at you did lose though i mean i guess i guess supposed yeah i mean 100% natural yes three it's three it's a win my friends it does give you an energy boost in your mind i hear did we mark maguire take cretin didn't he back in the day when he hit all the home runs what was the other one is like everything a him and sammy soza yeah i and they but though they did later pretty much admit we're off the rails i need to go i'm sorry i find his comments uh hey every single week we do a happy giveaway and last winner or last week's winner we have corny jettley 2450 by the way here her story she took two flights from california to denver to dfw at four a.m. and she drove two hours to rockwell and missed the free hat memo so she's from california came here and uh she did not get a hat so you don't want we got you kerney we got a hat for you hat hat hat hat hat captain planet okay uh two participating in this week's giveaway comment hat below on youtube and we will pick 10 hey man 10 we're given away 10 and listen we're trying to get and i want to keep saying this because i keep seeing calm i don't get any money for you buying our hats i get that no money for that these pods ain't free this for cameras and stuff so they can get that and i want i want to get it to the spot where it's like you can't going to wear with that C1, that's how live free nation wins. So where do they go again? If you, so a couple of things, if you are part of our live free nation and you come and visit as a person for the first time and you say, I came here because of the podcast, we got a free hat for you. Yeah, like point, if you, if you get one of our first time guests, that's right. That's right. On the outside and say, hey, live free podcast. Yeah, that's right. And then also you can, we have an online store for the app. If you go to live free that shop or text a word, had to 20411. And by the way, we did have a visitor yesterday trying to, you got that photo of, uh, Chera Fisher. This was awesome. And her granddaughter, Milana, came to say, hi. And it just so happens that, you know, we were there and we were, uh, yeah, drove in from Illinois. She came for the weekend. Yeah, unfortunately, we were, yeah, it's no one I see. Yeah. And so this is probably the first photo we capture of like, you know, hanging out with three of us and, and somebody else in a live free. It's great. It's great. It's great. But got, got a couple bibles for it. It was amazing. That's right. And shout out to her husband as well, who's listening at this moment. Hey, one more thing. A lot of people have been asking us about a daily Bible reading plan because we are all about the Bible. So we did that when you download the lake point app, you'll find a daily Bible reading plant plus the weekly sermon plus an early release every single week of the weekly live free podcast episode plus a discipleship guide that you can use with your life group. Wow. And deep in your relationships, so to download the lake point church app text toward app to 2041 one or go to Apple or Google Play store. Oh, Pastor Josh, I have a question for you. Hey, man, that cartoon character. Oh, I love how you were like, this is not asked to me. I was like, you, this guy hasn't even seen goodwill hunting. I'm not asking him. I know scubbi. Yeah, you know, you don't have to like, you don't come from the movies. Scubbi is like scubbi. Scubbi? Scubbi? Isn't that one the, you know, bluest clue? Stop, dude. Stop. You know, I'm brushed up on my, you know, man. I know. I'm brushed up on my voices because I'm doing what I read the action Bible to Hudson and I, they all do voices. So I've been scubbi. You do scubbi quite a bit. Yeah, it comes out. Hey, Pastor Josh, have a question for you. I will allow it. I heard you got some heat on the ice. No, again, conversation on Instagram. No, not at all. Not at all. You never get that, right? No, no, no, no. What did you tell me about it? Well, let me just, okay, so honestly, on Instagram, if honestly, dude, it feels like 2020 again on Instagram. It's like people are being very emotionally manipulated. Listen, I love you guys, but there are a lot of people who they are, they are feeling not thinking and they're swept up in mass hysteria that in my correct, humble, but correct opinion is being intentionally manufactured by propaganda. And so tentos down, you are in the middle of a propaganda war. Can I, can I prove it to people? Please, yeah. Okay, so I'm going to do this. I'm about to waterboard you with the reality you are in the middle of a propaganda war, whether you know it or not, you are in the middle of a propaganda war right now. Now, but let me set this up and then I'm going to rapid fire these. And if you are skeptical of this, I'm asking you to stay with me the entire time, because by the end, you are not going to be able to deny the reality. You are in the middle of a propaganda war. Now, let me set this up. At some point, we need to do an entire episode on a book by a guy named Saul Olinsky called Rules for Radicals. Rules for Radicals is the playbook by virtually every, for every virtually every Marxist agitator. And there are, those people actually exist. There are small coordinated groups, but they actually exist. Saul Olinsky outlined 11 rules by which primarily Marxist agitators could destabilize destabilize societies and advance a revolution, 11 rules. Three of them were this. Step one is what he said. He says, step one, create a crisis. Step two, one of the other rules is your real action is your enemy's reaction. Now, here's what he meant by that. I'm going to read from a summary of this. Here's what he meant by that. Your real action is your enemy's reaction. When facing a stronger adversary like the government, the organizer or agitator's initial action is not the end goal. It is supposed to be a deliberate provocation designed to elicit specific response from your opponent. That response, if anticipated and strategically guided, becomes the true mechanism for advancing your cause. Now, as I'm reading this, remember, dude, they're running the exact same play is 2020 BLM. And I would remind you, if you got hoodwinked by the BLM thing, literally the leaders of the BLM organization publicly said, and I quote, we are trained Marxists. That's what they said. We are trained Marxists. Let me keep going. Saul Lensky, the idea is to go the enemy into reacting in a way that you can then leverage to alienate their supporters or strengthen your position. So what he's saying is, second rule, your real action is your enemy's reaction. I'm going to try to provoke you law enforcement government. I'm going to try to provoke you to do something in reaction to my provocation that I can capture in an image or a video and then publicize it and propagandize it to whip up. And this is what he said, to whip up, he said, reacting in a way that can be leveraged to alienate their supporters or strengthen your position. And then after you've done that and public pressure becomes massive, then the last thing is forces solution. And their solution is the advancement of the revolution. So that's what Saul Lensky said. Now listen, I'm about to waterboard you with this. If you do not believe you're in the middle of a propaganda war, I love you and you can be as mad at me as you want. You're wrong. So listen, I'm going to wrap it fire these. Here we go. Right here. Number one, no, this is not a picture of an eight-year-old girl who died in ice custody under the Trump administration's heartless dictatorship. It happened in 2023 as reported by the New York Times under the Biden administration. But now it's getting millions of views and being labeled as happening now. Number two, no, this is not a photo of a five-year-old put in a cage because of the current administration calls people illegal. Nope, snopes reports after millions of views. It was discovered that was a photo taken at a protest staged in front of Dallas City Hall. The parents brought the kid to the protest. He was in the cage for about 30 seconds and he cried because he couldn't figure out how to get out. Number three, no, this is not a video of ice agents, quote unquote, drive by macing people for no reason. That went mega viral. I watched the entire video myself. They were throwing things at law enforcement vehicles and the guy maced the guy that was throwing things at law enforcement vehicles. Number four, no, this is not a picture of woman whose hand was shot off by ice agents firing rounds at mourners as was claimed and it got millions of views. Nope, she was rioting and obstructing law enforcement and as you can see right here she picked up a flashbang before it detonated and injured her own hand. Blue part of it off. Next one, no, this is not a picture of a five-year-old boy arrested by ice. As reported, the boy's father abandoned him while he was fleeing arrest. That is a picture of ice agents following protocol and not leaving a five-year-old alone in freezing weather out on the street. Next one, no, this is not a picture of a baby that was tear gas by ice while his parents were on their way to a basketball game. Go to that next picture. You can literally see Nvidia that was uncovered later. His parents lied. They're on video at a violent protest and they left their baby alone in a car for 45 minutes at a riot that they helped cause and they forced tear gas to be deployed. Next one, this is not a picture of an innocent restaurant worker being arrested by heartless ice agents. As you can see right here, it is a picture of an illegal child rapist who fled into a restaurant to avoid arrest and seems to have a knife in his hand if you look closely. Next one, this is not a picture of ice ripping a disabled woman from her car while she was screaming that she was trying to get to the doctor as was claimed and seen by millions of people. I watched the entire video. She was intentionally obstructing ice officers by blocking her road. She was asked by four different ice officers to move. She did not comply and so they were forced to remove her from her vehicle. Next one, this is not a picture of a mother whose son was gunned down for no reason by quote unquote racist ice officers. Nope. Actually, it was discovered this kid was firing an AR style rifle into the air into the middle in the middle of an apartment complex. He was asked to stop by law enforcement who self-identified as law enforcement and not only did he not comply, he is reported as turning his firearm on the ice agent and firing a shot in the agent's direction. In fact, the kid's dad admitted in a video interview that I watched that his son was doing something illegal with a gun and he knew that it was illegal. Next one, no, that is not an innocent man. This right here, it is that was there was not an innocent man that was shot for no reason by ice agents in Arizona. Next one, actually, even the Associated Press reports the guy was firing rounds at law enforcement helicopters and law enforcement individuals and they returned defensive fire. Next one, no, this is not a picture of a federal agent quote unquote terrorizing an innocent observer by pointing a gun at his face. Nope. If you go watch the video, I took these screenshots. The guy was obstructing law enforcement on purpose. He initiated contact with the law enforcement agent and pulled the gun, tried to pull it out of his hands. Then the muzzle of what appears to be a gun briefly flashes in front of his face because he pulled it out of the agent's hands and it was pepper spray. It was not a rifle. Next one, no, this is not a New Yorker article about a quote unquote innocent Jamaican U.S. citizen who was shackled and deported for no reason. Whoops, it azy. He had multiple felonies, including armed robbery and murder. I repeat murder. So his citizenship was revoked and law enforcement was carrying out the warrant for his arrest. Next one, no, this is making the rounds again. No, the current administration's deportations are not quote unquote unprecedented on the cover of Time magazine. That's what it says. Actually, I'm going to read you some stats. Bill Clinton deported 12.3 million people, Bush deported 10.3 million people, Obama deported 3 million people, Biden deported 4.4 million people. So far through both of his terms combined, Trump has deported a total of an estimated 2.5 million people, less than all these others. You may be asking the question, well then, why am I hearing so much about it? Why am I hearing about it more? Because you're in a propaganda war. That's why. Let's keep going. Next one, no, ice is not the quote unquote American Gestapo, as will probably surprise many people who are not as aware. The leader of ice is that guy on the right. His name is Tom Homan. He served in the exact same position under Barack Obama. This is Barack Obama giving Tom Homan a distinguished service medal in 2015 for deporting more people than he has during the current administration. Now listen, I could literally go on and on and on. Listen to me, is this blanket approval of everything that every ice agent does and everything the administration does? No, it isn't. Honestly, I'll be honest, man, I was talking to you about this a lunch. There's some things I don't like. I don't like them doing little hype videos on TikTok of deporting families and kind of thing. Does the law need to be enforced? Yes, it does. Do you need to make a hype video about everything? No, it doesn't. It comes across as a performative cruelty. So is this a blanket approval of literally everything everybody has? Of course not. Are you in a propaganda war? Yes, you are in a propaganda war and it's designed. Listen, it's just think. Think. Don't feel your way through things. Think your way through things. It's 2020 again. It's a propaganda war. It is designed to galvanize the public against law enforcement just like they did in 2020. What's why is this happening? It's a midterm election year. Man, just like actually stop and think for a second. So listen, man, Christians ought to be able to chew gum and walk at the same time. Okay? So Christians are commanded to love all people, including illegal immigrants. In fact, I'll just say this, man. I've seen some comments like people taking shots at me where they'll be like, hey, man, you guys have a lake point in spaniol. Do you know that all of them are legal? Or they'll be like, hey, man, you guys have a, I'll just say this. We have a food pantry that serves like almost a million meals per year out of lake point. I guarantee an enormous number of them are not legal residents of the United States. I don't care because I'm going to let the government do their job. And then the church and individual Christians, we're going to do our job. And we bless God in those things. So absolutely, man, if somebody walks into my church and says, hey, man, will you disciple me? My answer is yes. And if somebody's hungry and they walk up to my church and they want food, my answer is we are Christians. We feed hungry people. Yep. We want to help and bless you. So Christians are commanded to love all people, including illegal immigrants. God commands all people, including illegal immigrants to obey just laws, including border laws. That should not be controversial. And it is not wrong for a nation to enforce the laws is had on the books for over five decades. But listen, man, what you got to understand right now and out 10 toes down, you can, you can comment to your hearts content on my Instagram page. 10 toes down, you are 100% in a propaganda war right now. And Christians have to become people who wait, learn and reflect instead of just emotionally reacting and getting caught up in mass hysteria. Why? Proverbs 18 17, whoever states his case first seems right until another comes and examines him. You, my friends, are in the middle of a propaganda war period. That's my rant. That's good. My rant is over. That's good. It's a good invitation. Honestly, I'm not necessarily one. Especially in this time, social media, things move fast, news move fast. You got to be exercise, wait a minute. Let me go. No, it's a kind of thing. You say so. And harm in the sense of spreading misinformation. If you're taken in by this stuff and then you share it, you're doing harm in that you're spreading misinformation and you're like the boy who cries wolf. Yeah, once when something actually legitimately bad happens, people are not prone to believe you because you've shared so many other things that are untrue. So to your point, because every time I've seen you post stuff like this, you always give a caveat. The interesting, I am not saying everything I says has been good. They've done some wrong things. Own administration has been in that in the past week. But it's the point of when you're sharing this stuff, when they actually do harm, people are going to tune you out because it spreads so many other lies and misinformation that you've been taken in by. That's right, man. Dude, I'll just I'll gently say this. I'm asking you what I'm done. Let's see how it comes out. I'll gently say this. This is Jana. Jana, I were talking about this. You can pretend all you want that men and women are not different. Men and women are different. God created men and women and women different. Men and women receive different curses of the fall in Genesis 3. There are specific commands that are given differently to men and husbands and women and wives, which means, oh, by the way, that men and women have different strengths and weaknesses. One of those is that this is, listen, I'm relaying Jana. I'll ask her if I have permission later. And then if not, then you're going to cut this out. One of those is that men sometimes women can be a little more prone to thinking, to emotional reasoning, to feeling your way through something instead of stopping and thinking your way through something. Does that mean that women are worse than men? No. Men have their own individual generalized weaknesses too. But I'm just saying when I'm on Instagram, I'll just say it, dude, it's like wall-to-wall white women. It's serious so that's who it is. It's wall-to-wall white women getting caught up in mass hysteria and feeling their way through things instead of thinking their way through things. And no, I'm not saying that all white women are not saying that. I'm just saying, hey, man, in a generalized way, watch it and make sure that you got your left tackles up. You know, so there you go. There you go. There you go. There you go. Good word, man. Hey, let's talk about the Bible. That'd be great. Let's do that. That was really helpful. That was really good word by the way. That was really good word by the way. That was good. You were just cooking. That was really good word. I'm just letting it soak a little bit. I'm not known. Pester Mike did a great job this wall. That's Mike always does a great job. The man's a legend. That's right. That's right. We went Mark chapter 10 and so if somebody's here, maybe they didn't listen to the sermon, you can go back and find it on our YouTube channel. The main text was Mark chapter 10 verse 42 to 45. Basically tells the story of John and James, the sons of thunder. They're trying to awkwardly ask Jesus to get them a special seed on his right and left. And basically Jesus recalibrates their definition of greatness and redirects their ambitions. So I want to ask you guys out of this passage, anything else that stood out that you're like, I got to share this. Yeah, there was a lot of man. This is a this is all time great passage here man. So one of the most important stories you get in the gospels. And I love by the way that we get a sons of thunder thing right after last weeks. That's right. So okay. Man, so I'll hit a couple things. You know, number one, Mark chapter 10, this is Mark chapter 10. There's parallel passage in Matthew chapter 20 tells the same story from a different angle. That's what the gospels are by the way. Same story, different camera angles. And the Matthew 20 passage, obviously records unlike the Mark 10 passage that their their mommy brought them. You got something? I got to do you share yours, but there's a cool detail people. Well, you're doing yours then. Do it. Okay. So mom, mom and asked and it says the mother is the 70 sons. That phrase only comes up one other time in the book of Matthew and it's at the cross. So she asked, and my son said you're right and left. She's like, you don't know what you're asking for. And all of a sudden, she'd go to the cross and it says the mother is the 70 sons where she gets an eye witness view of what she had been asking for. I have net. I'm so glad you're out of pocket. And so even like the idea of like, I've not come, but I'm not come to be served a two serving given my life as a ransom for many, which was where on the cross. So she got to say, oh, that's what I was asking for. That's what he meant. Yeah. I didn't see that until this week as well. The idea that, you know, he's asking a seat on the right and left. And then obviously Jesus responds with, hey, they're suffering with that. And then but John was at the cross, right Paul? Yeah, later towards the end. So that Mothu is a game later. So John would have realized like, oh, there's a there is a man on his right and on his left. And this is what Jesus was talking about. Yeah. And so at the cross where Jesus is glorified, John literally says that he was glorified on the cross. And so that's wild. That's amazing. I didn't catch that. That's awesome. I'm glad you said that. All right. A couple other things. So this dovetails what Paul just said. So if you're like a new Bible reader, you're read it past just like this. What where's that verse where he says, okay, it says right here. I'm going to read it. So they go, hey, will you grant for us to sit one on your right one on your left in glory? Verse 38, Jesus says, and if you're a new Bible reader, this language doesn't make sense to you, but I want it to make sense to you. Jesus says to them, you don't know what you're asking. Are you able to, and then he uses his phrase, drink the cup that I drink or to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized. Now, if you read that and you're a new Bible reader, you know what I take he's talking about. Okay. What's going on here is he's pulling on a massive old testament thread. There's like, I looked him up this week. There's about 30 verses in the old testament that refer to God pouring out his wrath and judgment on sin as a cup. Then people are forced to drink. I'm going to read three passages so that you understand the thread Jesus put on. This is Isaiah 51 17. Wake yourself. Wake yourself. Stand up. O Jerusalem. You who have, here it is, drunk from the hand of the Lord, the cup of his wrath. Now, stay with me because there's a really good payoff here. Who have drunk to the dregs, that's like if you're a wine drinker, that's the stuff at the bottom of the cup, the bowl, the cup of staggering. Here's another one. I say, I have 51 22. Thus says the Lord, the Lord, the Lord your God, who pleads the cause of his people, behold, I have taken from your hand here to get in, is again, the cup of staggering, the bowl of my wrath. You shall drink no more. Let me do one more. Jeremiah 25 15. Thus the Lord, the God of Israel said to me, take from my hand. Here it is again, this cup of the wine, that's important of wrath, and make all the nations to whom I will send you drink it. All right. So bro, here's what Jesus is doing. He's doing two things. One, he said, they would have known that. They would have read their old testament. They would have known, oh, when he's talking about a cup, in the Old Testament, God pouring out his judgment and wrath for sin, that's the cup. And Jesus is saying, can you, can you drink that? Can you drink that thing, the suffering that I'm about to experience for that thing? Now, here's, here's where it gets kind of cool, you all are deeper. So you've seen, Carlos, you've seen the Princess bride. I have, yes. Are you sure? I have. Yeah, with, uh, and half the way, right? No, that's the Princess Diaries, bro. It's okay. It's okay. We're all right. We all still love Jesus. Are you punking me? No, I'm not. Actually, we still love Jesus here. It's okay. They're in the other way. Yeah, the grace to go ahead. Yeah, this is amazing. Princess bride. Listen, someday me and me and Paul are going to come to El Salvador and you'll be the one making fun of us for not knowing anything. Oh, uh, definitely not to him that. No, bro, put it on the list. This is, uh, okay, are you sure? Yeah, dude. Is this right? Is this, is that it? Yeah. That, yes. Okay. It's like a legendary movie. Goes from recommending, uh, a brave heart to Princess bride. Okay. That word does not mean what I think you. You use that word. I do. I think you know it. Okay. Let's do. Okay. So there's the spot you won't understand this. I'm talking to you. That's okay. That's all right. So I'm too, too, too, me out. That's okay. So you remember that time with the fat guy in there? It has, there's the thing and he's like two cups of wine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then he poisons one. And there's the one that's going to make you die. And this is the one that's going to be life. Okay. So dude, here's what and oh, here's a deep cut. So I actually watch the interview with, uh, uh, uh, JK Rowling. Obviously, I'll have your air partner. I know. I know. I know. I know. Okay. Uh, JK Rowling, who's like Christian ish? She's like she has a vague Christian influence. So in that, you remember when he's in a little cave at the end with Dumbledore and they're trying to get the little horror crux. I've never felt stupider than I feel right now. I said or horror crux. And, and, and you remember where the only way for him to get the little horror crux thing, Magigar is Dumbledore. Who is a, who's like a Christ figure in the book? Dumbledore has to drink to the drugs. This poison thing that's going to kill him. So when Jesus go with me, who will happen to me? So when Jesus does this, he's like, can you drink cup of much drink? What he's doing here is he's gone, Hey, man, I'm going to drink the cup that you all deserved so that you can drink the cup that I deserved. I'm going to drink the cup of wrath and judgment and death so that you guys and at the Lord's supper, Jesus goes, Hey, he holds up a couple wine and he goes, this is the blood of the new covenant that's poured out for you for the gift for getting us to send. So he's going, Hey man, why don't we trade cups? The cup that you deserved was the cup of judgment, wrath and death and the cup that I deserved was the cup of life and joy and celebration and he's gone. I'll trade cups with you. And this is what's happened here. Okay, now here's, here's what's really cool. If you go even one more layer deeper, what you got right here is Jesus says to James and John, these two guys, they go, Hey, we think we can drink the cup because they didn't know what they were talking about. They're, they're, you know, they're being idiots. And Jesus very chillingly says, actually guys, you are going to drink the cup. And he's given him a prophecy about what's going to happen to him. Very interesting. Tragically, not much later, actually, church history tells us about 10 years later, one of the two dudes he's talking to, James, big James, James in the book of Acts is recorded. He's the first martyr of the apostles, AD 44 killed by Herod. And when he's beheaded, he fulfills Jesus' prophecy. You will, James. He was looking at him and Jesus knew, Jesus knew. He said, you are, you're going to drink my cup. You're going to go to a court. You're going to go to a death too. And then obviously, John in the old age, in his old age, he was tortured, church history tells us that that John was boiled alive, boiled alive, but did not die. So then he gets exiled to the Isle of Patentist, Pat Mis probably looking like a walking chicken nugget. And, and he lives the rest of his days in isolation, writes a book of Revelation. And guess what? He drank that cup too. And so what Jesus is doing here is he's establishing a principle that spiritual authority only comes through submission and service. I'm going to say it one more time. Spiritual authority only comes through submission and service. And did I just want to do something real quick? I actually want to shout out Mike Bro who breaches message. And I'm going to say something he's not going to like me saying and that he would never say publicly, but I'm going to say it because there's a lot of things people don't know about my bro. Mike bro was the senior pastor of one of the largest churches in America and fastest growing churches in America in the 90s. Church called Cross, uh, Crossland Church, I think in Lexington. Seriously, church, you know, in the 90s, the church, 10,000 people like that wasn't a thing like that didn't happen. Where was it? Lexington Kentucky. And Mike was like in church world, Mike was a big, a big dag on deal. Mike then went to at what at the time was the largest church in America. And he was supposed to be one of the guys that became the successor of the senior pastor at church. So Mike had a has had a lot of greatness in his life. Here's what a lot of people don't know about Mike bro. People, but you can bag on all these mega church pastors just want to be treated like celebrities and dead, dead, dead, uh, here's who Mike bro is. Mike, if I understand this correctly, every Thursday, Mike lives in a little house. He makes his way ever to a Starbucks. And this guy that was one of the most prominent well-known pastors in America, you know, he does on Thursday morning. He teaches a little Bible study to about six recovering addicts, just Mike bro and six dudes. Do you know what else Mike does? Mike in his free time, he mose widows lawns in his neighborhood. The guy that like was on a front page of newspapers asked to speak all over the place, one of the most prominent preachers in the United States. What's he do? He mose widows lawns in his neighborhood. And he's got a little hobby Mike, Mike likes to work with his hands. He like he likes construction, like swinging a hammer. The other thing Mike does when he hears about somebody in need in his city, he just he'll walk over to the little house somebody doesn't have enough money to renovate their house or fix something. And his little hobby is helping people who can't afford it. Renovate their houses and get it up and running. So here's my point. Do you know why Mike bro has been elevated to greatness because he lowered himself to service? That is greatness in the kingdom of God. That right there. Amen. I feel like a lot of people don't realize like sometimes the what we think are the quote unquote small simple teachings of Jesus, like what you just said about being great and being humble. They've been like they're radically like revolutionary in history. Yes. Like obviously this is an example. Tom Holland writes a book, Dominion. I'm sure you're good. I've heard so you're amazing. He tracks history basically and he shows how the influence of and he's not a Christian by the way. He's an ex historian. Yeah. And this would be an example of one of them. Like if you zoom out in history before Jesus power existed to protect the powerful. But then after Jesus power exists now to serve the power less, which is what God who is the most powerful does with us who we are the most power less. And this is why today in some ways like it's normal people people don't realize this, but it's actually normal for people to be like when I hold our leaders accountable because there's an expectation that the powerful are serving the ones that are weak. And so but that's Jesus. That's literally you see this in history before Jesus in the ancient world sick people were abandoned after Jesus Christians are coming for the sick hospitals are made by Christians. And so it all starts with with Jesus is teaching over here to be a serpent. Did you have you heard you know the thing about Seneca? Have you heard this? No. All right. So Mark all the gospels you know they're written for different audiences. Mark's gospel of all of them. It has a few things in it. This is like geared towards a Roman audience. Okay. So I this is the one I learned this last time I preached this passage. So Seneca obviously a well-known author writer philosopher in the Roman Empire a few years like not that long before Jesus says this. Seneca had popularized an idea in the Roman Empire and I'm going to quote this is a quote many serve and die for the one ruler that was Seneca's idea of leadership. Many serve and die for the one ruler. And Jesus in this passage it some people think Jesus intentionally exactly reversed the very popular Seneca teaching and Jesus goes you know actually the ruler serves and dies for the many. That's right. Wow. Let's even like think we would say obviously it's all about Jesus right. Common phrase and it is all about Jesus. But yeah it's interesting that when Jesus walked this earth for Jesus it was not all about Jesus. Oh that's great. It was all about others. By the way even now from heaven it says that he is interceding for us. So he is still serving us even in heaven. And so it is all about Jesus but again for the one for whom it is all about for him it wasn't about himself was about others. And so all that being said then for me it definitely can't be about me. Yes right. It has to be for others and that's the idea of serving here that he's getting at. So I love that idea it's like man true authority actually starts humbling yourself and serving others. That's right dude. Good. And that's a freeing thing. Yes. Today in our culture everybody's about self we're obsessed with self and what Jesus is teaching is here is that the antidote towards your obsession with self that is freeing is just you serve you ask hey how can I how can I help you how can I serve you anything anything else from the passage. Well you guys know let's get practical for a second. Let's get real practical because there's some implications here not just for like disciples but honestly dads moms and dads but I'm a dad so you know moms and you know one thing man that I don't think I realized until you know I got a few years under me following Jesus is you know that where Jesus you know Jesus says is better to it's more blessed to give them receive. And then he does the with the measure you use it will be measured back to you and you know that kind of and given it will be given to you press down shaking together pouring over. I honestly I used to only apply that to money and it's true for money but honestly man like it's really it applies to everything including including service. So what you what I've noticed is that the happiest people in the world are the the most servant oriented people in the world you'll know if in fact here's a homework assignment. This week all I want you to do is just walk around your life and notice just notice who are the happiest people. What you will notice is that the happiest people you see they are the people whose lives are spent serving other people. Why? Because it actually is true. It's more blessed blessed the Greek word translated blessed it literally just means happy. It's more happy to give than to receive. So dude here's one. So we're going to Israel later. Are we going or just you going? Am I going? I'm going in a month for like kind of a scouting thing. I'm going there together when we're there to yeah. So when you go to the Dead Sea. So here's one but I've never gotten this into a sermon. You know how the Dead Sea is dead? Because everything flows into it and nothing flows out of it. That's why it's dead. Do you know why your life feels dead? Because everybody's pouring into you and you're not pouring into anybody else. Nothing's flowing. So it's man when you get that thing where it's like dude this is my thing. This is the thing. The Holy Spirit uniquely gave me to do. He empowered me to do this thing. The New Testament calls them spiritual gifts. The Greek word is carousamata. Carous means grace. Mata means gift. It just means grace gift. So whenever you figure out what that thing is the Holy Spirit like deposited in you and you start flowing that thing to other people you're just going to notice like it's like just like breathing fresh air. You know there's something about him. So you get real practical. When you figure out what your thing is figure out how it builds up the body of Christ the church and then you start pouring that thing out and watch blessing rise in your life. So good. What y'all got? When I pray I have a list of things to help me just go through things that I need to be reminded of prayer. One of my favorite prayers is when I wrote a while back and you know if somebody's like I don't know what to do and you know how do I go from here like I would say you should pray this ask God to show you just say God who do you want me to bless today that I would not expect. That's great. And I love praying that because when you ask God God who do you show me who you want me to bless one it shifts your perspective. Now it's not just hey here's what I want here's what I need today now it's more like hey I know you you've blessed me already but you want me to pour that blessing to others and God has a fun way of surprising you with random people random conversations and you will know when you pray that prayer in the morning you will know this is a person that God wants me to bless today that I was not expecting. So that's a quick little practical little prayer. This is awesome. This dovetails have you're noticed in Jesus ministry all his healings none of them are planned they're all interruptions. So it's like dude there's an old preacher quote that I've never forgotten. He's like hey man every day you need to think this the interruption is the assignment. Who's the who's the the interruption that day. The interruption is the assignment is that thing you just said. That's right. Well what I love about that too is obviously when we do sermons like this a lot of times a practical next step is serving in the church and by the way for sure do that. That's a scriptural thing. I mean literally you know the Paul Spall talks about he gives the Holy Spirit gives different gifts for the building up with the common good for the church. Even the I love the body illustration because literally cancer is when a cell stops living for the good of the whole body and lives for itself. That by definition is what a cancer is. I gotta get dead in must I gotta get out of that. I got that from God named Paul Brandt who was one of something like certain general brilliant brilliant God but I mean that's the answer. So the idea is so for sure that but what I love about that is sometimes we just by the way sorry Paul. Text serve to two zero four one one somebody's like how do I do that. Well here's how you do it like we want to help you out. Exactly and so about it do that so all this but what I love about that is remember discipleship is becoming like Jesus. So with that even said discipleship is not simply about like information accumulation. It's about becoming like Jesus and so Jesus served I can't be saying I'm being disciples if I'm not serving like him but that isn't something that we do once a week is I love what you're kind of doing which is like I mean this is just an everyday thing for sure I'm a church oh yeah I'll serve my church but I'm serving just because of who I am not because it's something I do once a week so that's what I love about it's not just a once a week thing or twice a week thing it's just a daily thing of saying hey how can I bless someone else besides myself today. Yeah just a couple of there's really you were kind of hidden on which is like man if you haven't done that you had especially thinking church context just try something and it doesn't work try something else like it doesn't work mean like hey that just doesn't buy with you doesn't land like you know it doesn't like resonate with you or it's not your gift okay try somewhere else and I'm just you a lot of people learn what they like and what they're passionate about first by doing it so if you can't figure it out just call the church will help you out then with that if I will say for those who have families as much as you can serve together I would say this is a big deal right here especially for guys if you have kids and I say for guys especially if you have sons serve together yeah it's one of the best ways just to bond some of the best ways to have ongoing conversations so I would say as much as you can serve together like even like my wife she's a teacher so obviously schedules during the school you're hard during the summer she serves with our girls that are food pantry that's awesome and so it's just a great thing to do together yeah do that's I'll say that's a parenting hack helping your kids early like figure out where a spot in the church is so they feel like what our little thing at home is we'll say man church is the best family business on earth that's all we'll say the kids all the time church the best family business on earth and it's like a very young age do this a total parenting hack if you can get your kids from a young age go on man I've got this thing that I'm good at there's a thing that's meaningful that I can contribute at church and then they're excited about it it's just like one it's one more thing where I'm hook in their heart to the principles and purposes of God and it just dude I'm a hook I want as many hooks I can because it becomes real hard to walk away from this thing so like Eliana every week she's serving back in kids ministry she she looks she has a black by the way what's you're gonna notice on this and you're gonna if you're not serving in a church you're gonna think I'm lying and then you're gonna do it you're gonna find out that you were wrong and I was right is when you find that thing this like your thing and you serve is actually the hour where you're serving is actually the happier hour than when you're receiving so Eliana is like the every now and then she'll you know she'll serve twice you know it's like because she would she gets more out of the serving that's sometimes listening to her dad preach she's hopping on a little worship team on the the middle school ministry soon felicities eleven and it's like what we're doing right now is she's shadowing we're working okay let's shadow on the production team our social media team they put a camera in her hands one week all right Felicity why don't you try to take some pictures she was good at it Felicity's got the little gift of helps she's my little quiet servant you know so she dude I was so proud we we didn't even know she was doing this she was walking around this little whatever that thing at concourse on the weekend and she didn't tell she did it and some older lacing church told us about this she saw them I guess they were like folding bullets in or something and she just walked up and said can I help just sat there for 30 minutes and folded the little things and put them on the little tables and and then we're you know training Hudson just don't pee in the hall but you know it's like baby steps but man I'm just telling you like it's you know you want to you want to kick your kids discipleship into overdrive real early hook their hearts to some area service did you guys do that when you guys were kids like you do parents yeah which is as a role early man you same everything was what you do we had a war literally well my and I don't know if like you know because there's a little bit of a cultural difference here with like American parents and like but like my my mom didn't ask me like she's just be like this is what you don't yeah since I was a little kid and I was serving being an authority this is literally like and so I remember just like being taken to church to serve yeah and uh and you know I I did everything I did from like kids bring moving toys for the kids I did uh you know youth group Bible study um and obviously when you mature you start realizing like oh like I want to do this and you know you enjoy it but uh yeah yeah I do you know it worked looking back yeah yeah huh and so you're pulling me literally studies have been done that shows that serving is one of the top five things that keeps someone in faith if they're doing it from their kids and so it's probably working to podcast and dumb is what those top five things are yeah but serving is one of them that those who serve in the church and they're probably the church they're serving when they're young they tend to stick and hope to more and do and they get older so some man I'll just emphasize some Carlos said if you want to if you want a hyperdrive your discipleship me his discipleship text the words serve to the number two zero four one one find that thing at the Holy Spirit of God empowered you specifically to do he put you on this planet to do and uh you'll be blessed in in the giving well hey guys as you know Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know God live free and make a difference but here's the thing movements by definition move and so if you're not moving then are you really being a part of the movement in fact somebody once said that too many churches are like football games 22 people on the field in desperate need of rest being watched by thousands of people in the stands in desperate need of exercise and so hey listen we refuse to be a church like that God has given each of us gifts and talents that were made to be a part of his movement and so if you have not yet joined a serve team I want to invite you to take your next step like right now just text a word serve to two zero four one one and we'll help you find your spot where you can make a difference in person or online whether that's serving in our digital ministry teams to help out with projects like this podcast or our greater team or maybe even serving with our kids team whichever serve team you are being called to go ahead and do that right now thank you for being obedient to God's calling in your life and let's keep doing this together that's great man hey we're going to shift gears right now we are talking about power and authority and serving and the answer to the question who has the power and authority to define what is true actually matters a lot and especially about things of who God is who is Jesus a more more than is now what is going on more than the spirit Christian life now all those things matter eternities are at stake literally because of who gets to define what is true and so we're going to switch gears and we're going to deep dive more minutes and right now the official name by the way of more menism is not more menism is actually the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we have a little graphic here Babylon be member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints wishes there were a shorter way to say member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that's objectively a lot of men that's a long title right there and so it was founded in 1830 in the United States by Joseph Smith and it basically claims to be in quote restoration of the original Christian church reportedly right now there are over 17.5 million members worldwide that's 46% of those live in the US and Canada and Mormons are around like 1 to 2% of the US population and somebody's like who are those guys they're basically like you probably seeing young men on bikes and helmets with white short sleeves short shirts and black ties I get to see them all the time here in Rockwell I don't know if about you I go to in and out on a regular and they're always there so let's talk about this I want to ask like in and out pastor you know that we're not over there a lot of her I don't even know what the joke has to I have to admit something I we're going here better than I've never eaten what a burger oh brother this is in princess what I was gonna say that I was like what's the name of that movie hey that is worse than not watching princess bright or confused you live in next I know I'm sorry I was given a $15 gift card I need I heard like the I thought you bug up before saying that you got to before the next pod you're gonna review what a burger next week I will do you have a recommendation for what he should eat I was just get a double cheeseburger I like their grill jalapenos they have spicy ketchup okay so I just build my own okay okay so that's why I like about in and out man it's just a simple double cheeseburger animal style this big there's so you did you know there's a Bible verse in the little cup I know hey pastor Josh sorry I didn't think it was a baby I felt like I couldn't judge moments for doing that when I I've never had the what a burger I like but that that's I'm sorry I didn't mean to take it's a Bible verse it is in the water burger cups I'm gonna get up Peter Peter killin eight well anyways so I don't think there's a Bible I don't think there's a Bible verse in I think there is I didn't know this okay here's your way I think I haven't been in it let me start talking about Mormonism yeah okay and then you look up okay so you look can I talk about the origins yes let me talk about the origins of Mormonism because dude peat listen people do on earth I'm gonna say something a little bit edgy people don't understand the birth of Mormonism was literally prophesied of the New Testament hmm I'm gonna let that sit all right so let me go back so here how did Mormonism come about let's let's do this real quick we're gonna answer questions like our Mormons Christians what's the difference between Mormonism Christianity isn't just another denomination but here's the big idea okay so Joseph Smith let's let's let's go background here Joseph Smith as a teenager he starts doing something that was called they called it treasure digging or glass looking where he was listen real close he was using quote unquote special stones to try to locate buried treasures like 15 11 to all 13 14 15 years old around here okay now in his 10 years all this is gonna be really important just a second in his 10 years he gets arrested and tried for quote unquote being a disorderly person because what they considered him doing this is really important was a form of fortune telling so bookmark this this is really important from an early age kids walking around with these little special stones trying to through some spiritual way figure out where buried treasure is bookmark that in your head that's a big deal all right so then in 1823 actually wait let me do this in this order okay now uh stop and think about this so he's doing this all right so then the Bible remember this so the Bible explicitly warrants over and over again in the Old Testament have nothing to do with witchcraft spiritism and the occult people ask hey man is that stuff real yep it's real demonic that's why the Bible says nothing to do with it all right so then the Bible says that then you got this kid he's 11 12 13 14 15 years old 14 when he has the first vision all right he's messing with these magic stones okay trying to spiritually discern where things are why because the kids started opening himself up to demonic spirits by messing with things that you see what's going on here when he's 15 okay now let's go layer deeper so in second Corinthians 11 14 number one we're told this Satan quote masquerades as an angel of light number two in second Corinthians 11 I'm going to read this to you it's specifically warrants about people who will come to you and preach quote another Jesus then the one you received another Jesus I'm going to read the verse for if somebody comes to you and preaches a Jesus different than the Jesus we preached or if you receive a different spirit let this sink in from the spirit you received or a different gospel from the one you accepted he says you put up with it easily enough he's gone who's bewitched you that's what he says then fast forward to the book of Galatians Galatians 1 8 this is a really important verse for understanding other religions in the world Galatians 1 8 the Apostle Paul says but if even if we or an angel from heaven comes to you and preaches a different gospel than the one you have received from us let him be a cursed all right now keep all that in your head have nothing to do with spiritism occult practices because it opens the door for demons hey watch out people might come someday in the power of an evil spirit and preach to you a different Jesus than the one you received and then hey heads up in Galatians someday these something that looks like an angel of light may appear to you and preach a different gospel a different way to salvation than the one you've received here and then it just so happens that 1800 years later low kid named Joseph Smith starts messing around with things this seem to have to do with spiritism in the occult opening some doors in his life and they guess what happens to him when he's you know few years after his first vision his second vision he's out in a field one day and he comes back and he's like man it's weird thing just happen an angel of light just appeared to me an angel named Moroni Moroni Moroni this angel appeared to me and guess what he did man he said that there are these little golden plates they have new revelation on them and actually everything that we've believed about Jesus for 1800 years is wrong and I learned about a new Jesus a new way to think about Jesus and he gave me a new way to salvation a new way to be say a different gospel ladies and gentlemen that is the exact fulfillment of everything the old and new testament said would happen spiritism they call opening doors to unholy spirits yeah a different Jesus and another gospel presented by an angel from heaven masquerading as an angel of light and that is how you got the birth of Mormonism right there and what's interesting is two two connections kind of from that or at least alongside that one would be that both Mormons and Muslims go to the same passage in the Old Testament say all this prophesied about us oh really say it 29 yep and Muslims would say all this is prophesying about Muhammad and the Quran and then Mormons would say nope this was about Joseph Smith in the book of Mormon and what's interesting about both of them is how does how do both of them happen an angel appears to them alone with no other witnesses and an isolated spot and basically says hey all these other people have gotten it wrong but we have the right stuff that we can give you that's right and so even that sometimes when I interact with with Muslims because they'll say oh but continue revelation I'm like well then listen pretty much Muslims make the same claims not the same theology but make some of the same claims that we got it wrong got appeared to you alone with no proof he gave you further revelation so why are you right and not Muslims what's the first thing it is Isaiah 29 and then it's I think verses 11 through 12 vision of all this has become to you like the words of a book that is sealed when men give it to one who can read saying read this he says I cannot for it is sealed so Muslims would say oh see the Quran was healed a little bit of it and then this one Mormons would do a little bit of a spin saying hey like another guy couldn't read it Joseph Smith was given the seer stones to be able to interpret the tablets that were given by Moroni they go to tablets interesting or that but I just said that he found in in a mountain in New York apparently I just so the point is is like what both Islam and Mormonism have in common or they have so much nodding comments right is that they basically say hey Christians have gotten it wrong God appeared to us alone and gave us the real truth and what is it actually about oh that would be in context is simply about that the people of God are refusing the revelation of God because it goes on the Lord said because this people draw near me with their mouth on on me with the lips while their hearts are far from me their fear of me is a commandment taught by men so it was going on the surrounding context as a refusing revelation it's not about a future prophet dude all dovetail that and what I said a second ago uh Trinity will you toss that picture of the little okay check this out man so right now on the top of Mormon temples when you drive by one you're gonna see that little golden statue that golden statue is a statue of Moroni so literally what is visually depicted is a demon named Moroni is on the top of Mormon temples establishing this is my dominion yep that's this is my dominion exact fulfillment of Galatians 1A and all these things and then with that I was I was like so I'm gonna say in the first vision so Joseph Smith this is around the time of the second grade awake and he's right in the middle of the second grade awake and get all these things happen in different denominations so he goes out into the woods and says okay got which church is the true church and then he says he has a vision of two different persons and this is his whole basis of leaving the father and son are two completely distinct beings and they say none of them they're basically all wrong and so when you talk about its a restoration I mean like people have to understand Christians that to understand the gochis it's another domination like one thing a that's wrong uh b it understands and they say we are all wrong they basically say that after the time of the apostles immediately after the apostles died heresy creptin so they basically everyone else before us has gotten it wrong yeah and were the right ones and so we're here to tell you the right way which is uh oh can't honestly it can be a little frustrating because you watch if you watch go back to the uh two episodes go where I did the rank and Bible translations burn the book of Mormon thing and then you watch the comments to this they'll get real up and arms oh yeah you're saying that you're that we're not part of you and that you're saying that we're the ones that are wrong it's like but your whole thing is built on everyone's wrong but you that's like your whole thing is built on that and this and this kind of says real fast yeah even with that when you're talking with them a lot with the good to and Mormon apologetics is well hey you know there were the Aryans who actually believe that Jesus was a created man who will appeal to other heresy saying hey these beliefs weren't settled but if you actually go look at those heresy's none of them believe what Mormons believed yeah so they'll take little aspects of heretical teaching that by our powers combined make captain Mormonism which is just all the basic heresy's uh combine but what's interesting is even they would say all those then heresy's their aspects they didn't be so basically they're saying all of the sort of Christianity and all the heresy's were wrong but we're right because an angel appeared to us alone and revealed it to us right yeah so let's do this yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna do i'm a finished given like a brief like two-minute history of the birth of Mormonism let me finish this and then Paul will you take us through to specific doctrinal distinctives differences between Christianity and Mormonism and then we're gonna answer some like very frequently shouted questions okay so already got so you got the uh when Joseph Smith teenager he's doing the treasure digger glass looker thing okay so obviously what happens he has two visions in the second the second vision is 1823 that's when the angel marona comes to him and tells him hey man there's ancient record on these golden plates that are buried near your home that's what he reports this uh this quote unquote angel from heaven this angel of light says to him um the plates contained this is what what he reported the plates contained a record of an ancient people that migrated from the Middle East to America around 600 BC that's what he reports now he what he says the angel says is that those were the ancestors of the Native Americans so he's trying to give an origin myth to where the Native Americans came from um what he says is recorded in the golden plates is that Jesus Christ appeared to them the native the early Native Americans after the resurrection and he established his church and that now the if i'm understanding this right the last prophet whose i guess whose name was Mormon if i understand this correctly uh put the record down on these golden plates hundreds of years earlier and that his son maronae buried them so i guess the angel and the this dude had the same name and there's some link there so then what happens is they go to translating the golden plates translation process what Joseph Smith claimed is that he received the plates in 1827 and translated them at over the next few years that's what he says now here's where gets honest a little weird um Smith didn't actually look this is what he reports didn't actually look at the plates to translate them Paul you can fact check any of this if you you've heard differently uh according to i witness accounts and i'm reading this to make sure i get it correct including his wife Emma Smith would put a quote seer stone into a hat bury his face in the hat to block out the light and then dictate the translation while the plates weren't even in the room this was apparently the same type of like quote unquote seer stone that he used as a teenager when he was hired to find all the buried treasure stuff okay now this is an important note uh Joseph Smith had 11 guys later sign a statement saying that they had seen the plates now a little bit of a problem here is that later a whole bunch of admit admitted they never saw the plates they just saw them in a spiritual sense a vision not physical point so this is you know you got to and then on the plates was recorded new revelation about the nature of god Jesus Christ and the way to salvation a couple quick disturbing i'm just give a couple little disturbing facts and i'm a kickin you Paul and we can talk differences here um Joseph Smith uh is this is by the way this is not even debatable um had 30 to 40 wives so a very accomplished poliagomist his youngest wife was 14 years old uh Joseph Smith was sealed that's what they call like a spiritual marriage um to 10 to 15 women who were married to other men at the same time so like just a total womanizer you know in at least one sense um became a free mason it was part of the whole free mason remover in 1835 he prophesied that Jesus would return to Missouri uh within 56 years um i didn't have i know now besides in the sense of omniscience and the presence of holy spirit i don't think Jesus ever been to Missouri um uh and at least in those senses and then he also prophesied to the lifernation uh he also prophesied i'm gonna quote it this generation shall not pass away until a house shall be built unto the lord in Zion Missouri so it's like man honestly dude you just got like actual explicit things he prophesied would happen that like just didn't happen and then this kind of gets into your stuff but Lorenzo Snow the fifth president of the LDS church this is where you get into they just they do not believe so here's the deal and Paul's gonna get into this and what we gotta do is quit here's the deal mormans use the same glossary as us but different dictionaries they man they use the same words which can trip trip up bunch people but when they use the words they mean totally different things so they use words like god the father Jesus Christ Lucifer salvation exaltation all the things they use those were but when they say them they mean completely different things than christians mean so for instance Lorenzo Snow fifth president of the of the LDS church he said direct quote as man is god once was as god is man may become so Paul's gonna get into this what they believe is that god the father was once just a dude like us on a different planet and then he went through an exaltation process to become god the father of his own universe and that you know that the same thing can happen to you if you go through an exaltation process that i've got you know outlined here and all the things so Paul do you want to just real quick take us through yeah take us through some differences here so people can understand you said well this is not we have to be so careful because we share share the same vocabulary but not the same dictionary and that actually really matters because like this just uses personal connect people if someone tells me i really love your wife Amy and i'm like all thanks and then they begin describing her if they end up describing someone who is not my wife yeah then it doesn't matter they're referring to a fundamentally different person and so like oh words of man i'm like they actually really do matter because in the same way that my wife wants to be known and loved for who she really is god wants to be known loved and worship for who he truly is as well now the hard thing in this is man you it's like pick word to start because if we were having a give you a moment and we were having a conversation we could be talking for weeks or hours because you pick a word for a concept and we mean very different things by them and so usually when i when i do this i like to actually start words if i'm if you were more and i would say man i was actually reading something from your LDS president and then from other people probably was called the quorum of the 12 was there's the second highest body just below the president and they said had the biggest places where we fundamentally disagree although they hate you you would say you're a Christian um i would disagree um the biggest place we disagree was called the godhead so they had the trinity and they had the further revelation and you know i'm like i agree so let's just talk there by the way in a minute we can hit some other things some differences but like hey let's focus on that and so um well i like to actually go with them is to say okay so let me get this straight you don't accept the trinity and they would say no i'm like like well why not like hey that was an invention later that happened three year hundred years after time apostles they invented something based on Greek philosophy and if you just read the Bible itself evident that that's not true the easiest way to read the Bible is say hey there's three separate beings they're super in the same way that right now we're three separate guys although we share a same common nature we're three separate guys we have three different minds three different rows all those kinds of things that if you read the Bible is very evident that there's three different gods you've got Elohim who's the father Yahweh who is the son and the spirit who is then the spirit you see if three separate gods and i say okay so then i say so you're saying they're polytheists yes they're actual poly they're not but i'm like guys the different and this is going to sound offensive but it's just the truth that Mormonism has more common with Greek pagan polytheism than it does with Christianity that Muslims theology is actually closer to our theology than Mormon theology even though they use the same as their monotheists yeah exactly as their monotheists that that's part of why you're not Christians as you were literally like if i put down like a spectrum monotheists on one side politics on the other side you're in the complete opposite side of the spectrum because it's like hey they idea like Greek pagan polytheism Zeus had a child they shared a common nature but they had different roles in the universe there's no fundamental difference in concept between that they would disagree with that they would say they were not a lot many some of them would say oh no like as that Jesus was a creative being God is the ultimate God like father the father's ultimate God i'm like no no i the concept of he had a child with the heavenly mother like that is literally Greek pagan polytheism okay but but so like i say okay um so you don't believe in it so but it sounds like what you're saying is hey a doctrine that appears long after the original revelation and that wasn't originally believed by the covenant people because it was self-evident can't be trusted they see i'm like okay i actually don't want to talk about the son or the holy spirit that usually throws them off when i say that because they're expecting us to get into debate over this and they're like well guess what aliens believe that the sun is gonna be like you know yeah and i usually see territory and i say yeah you're right let's talk about the father now i go okay i'm like okay so like all throughout christian history no one until the 1800s when Joseph Smith came along believe that the father was a separate god then y'all they always believed Elohim and y'all we were one and going back before christians go back to jewish people no jew ever believed that god the father was once a man who became a god or that Elohim and y'all we were different gods like think at the shema the lord y'all we are god Elohim so y'all we are Elohim the lord is one um someone hundred three literally says y'all we is Elohim it's just explicitly no one would have believed this so you're telling me no one ever believed this until Joseph Smith came along and gave you this revelation privately and but you earlier told me that my belief in the trinity for those who are not too familiar that is that there is one god but he has three eternal distinct ways of being that one god father son and holy spirit very complicated don't have enough time to do a complete deep dive on three who's exactly one what three who's so you're saying hey that can't be legitimate because it came too far after but i have to believe you even though you believe something about the father that no one before you believed so that to me is actually the one a huge key difference as i start with because if you say hey the father is a different what he's a different one who he's a different being and then y'all ways different when you are a polytheist and you're fundamentally different spectrum and you are not a Christian because of church and thermonotheists but we're also this is important sorry if i'm getting too much in the weeds i just think like this i use you start here because on all the other stuff if if you can just get to the father i found that it's the most like it's the biggest one because there again there's been no debate you can't say hey people have different thoughts no one ever has where this matters for people who don't be aware is that if you establish that everyone is always believed that Elohim and Yahweh were the same God all of a sudden when you get to the New Testament and you see things attributed to Jesus that were attributed to Yahweh in the Old Testament all of a sudden it's really hard to not say he is that one God in some way with they articulate how but he is that one God in some kind of capacity so for example we love Isaiah 6 right that that vision of the glory of God when John says that that was Jesus's glory but in Isaiah 6 it's clear that that is the glory of Yahweh the one God and so i usually start with the father and then their objection will usually be like well hey we've got further revelation like there's things that came later and hey actually Christians you develop doctrine later too like here's the distinction we didn't invent something new later we clarified what had always been there yeah that's right there's this idea that orthodoxy follows heresy and what I mean about that is not that we invented it is that hey these are the things we believe and then when those things are challenged it forces us to communicate clearly what we had always believed all the councils all the count response yes to the rise of a heresy yes so then if the heresy comes then we clarify the orthodoxy it's the same way as like people oh hey in the history of Christian people really didn't talk about trans and the Elohim like because we didn't have to yeah it was assumed to be a thing and then when it's challenged all of a sudden we have to get really really clear on I want to point out something he just said so here's all I want to do like let's bookmark and bullet point like rapid fire yeah let's go differences between Mormonism and uh Christian orthodoxy yeah one of the I'm gonna do one one of the ones you just said is when it comes to scriptures this is a big dagum deal right here so number one for Christians is the Bible we got the Bible yeah for Mormons they have four scriptures number one the Bible by the way in their words as far as it is translated correctly because they believe parts are corrupted oh by the way this is what everybody incorrectly lambasted me for two episodes ago in the comments saying that I was an idiot for saying that there was a Mormon Bible translation honestly a lot of Mormons don't know this yes there is the the JST the Jehovah Smith translation just sorry Joseph Smith 3000 verses either added or edited so they they they've got the Bible as far as it's translated correctly they believe parts are corrupted the book of Mormon that's the translation of the golden plates the doctrine and covenants and then the pearl of great price which includes like a book of Abraham and some other stuff and they believe that whoever is the current LDS president is capable of receiving new revelations which by the way that's what this a little we can get into this if you want to that's why they can say hey we used to affirm polygamy but we don't anymore because we've received new revelation or hey a lot of people don't know this the Mormon church used to black used to bar black people that African-American people could not be members of the Mormon church and why did that change but oh well we've received new revelation yeah which happens to be also during the civil rights there are so what's it easy what would just so happens that's when the new revelation came and in the early LDS LDS church you feel like bring them young and others who basically said hey there's an eternal procession of God's before before God the Father because of the idea is if he was once a man who became exalted then where did he come from so the early writers in LDS would say hey there is actually those that came before him now they back off that and they say that's not official doctrine why because it's untenable like even just rash it doesn't make logical sense yeah good well but why don't you both like let's pull a point and a rapid fire Mormonism is here and we're here what are the major I think we just kind of the thing I just established even like what they did the father a huge distinction is the idea like hey we believe that there is one God who turn these six is three persons one what three who's they would believe in three different separate beings some more polytheistic when it comes to Jesus we would say this he is the eternal son of God who was did not created and did not have a beginning more than as much as he was a spirit child of the father so he had a beginning there was a time when the son did not exist we would say there has never been a time in fact son did not exist one in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God he was God he he think there even like he again LDS believe he was promoted from being a man to being God so he actually did not receive full exaltation to galted until after his resurrection and exaltations to the father so he had to go through a similar process that the father did which they think we have the ability to do yes exactly exactly these basically there are there are four runners also they they believe that Lucifer is a spirit brother we do not get Jesus and Lucifer were spirit brothers exactly the offspring of the father and some spiritual mother that we really don't know anything about yep yep how do you want to if you want to you want to fight about it is like Mormonism would say salvation involves grace plus good works is a big deal right and that you have to do temple ordinances are required for exaltation whereas the store Christianity would say pastor Josh that it is not grace it's not grace plus work it is grace alone through faith alone yeah in fact will you toss that thing up uh Trinity that has the uh uh actually now you don't need to you don't need to I'm gonna read it yeah I'm gonna read it so um here you go Mormons distinguish between quote general salvation which refers to resurrection which everybody gets and exaltation so they differentiate general salvation exaltation exaltation is the highest level of heaven where you can become a god to achieve exaltation here's the process okay faith in Jesus Christ repent of sins baptized by a proper LDS priesthood authority receive the gift the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands receive the temple endowment that's special ceremonies in LDS temples be married in a temple as a celestial marriage that's part of the whole deal uh pay a full tie of 10% of your income obey the word of wisdom that's the whole where they get the whole no alcohol no coffee no tea no tobacco and endure faithfully until the end of your life okay so then they have these little you know temple interviews where you have to answer questions like hey are you a full-tifed pair do you keep the word of wisdom do you sustain the prophet as God's mouthpiece on earth are you more really clean do you wear your temple garments that's the whole holy underwear joke thing do you wear the temple garments is instructed and all that stuff so there's your there's your salvation exaltation process yep you can keep going 100% let's just talk about even like humanity in eternity so like historic Christian with historic Christianity would say humans are created being who had no existence until their physical creation their physical creation whereas Mormonism would say no we are spirit children of God the Father who then become basically into a body we're created into a body so we have they was they know we had a pre-mortal existence um and then also the idea to your point we can become gods whereas we would say no like we are made in the image of God and we can be saved by God and for eternity we will worship God but not in the sense of that we will become like as you read earlier the quote that we will somehow become like God in the sense of become what he is now in some kind of bad so this is important so Christianity God became a man yep Mormonism man can become God exactly exactly also even like in Mormonism there's actually three different experiences of heaven and there is no eternal hell so eventually in a sense everyone becomes saved but they functional annihilationists are they kind of universal redemption kind kind of so basically it's the idea that eventually everyone will repent but there's three different layers so there's like the best layer of heaven which is just for moments there's a second layer which I believe is by the way all of us so we get to heaven but we just get like junior jv heaven yeah jv heaven like suburban middle class heaven we're not we're not in the richest part and then there's a third level for people who complete unbelievers but eventually they eventually come to believe and they're like the ghetto of heaven I guess kind of kind of a thing kind of a thing so like let's just say that like they redefine humanity and redefine humanity's eternal destiny it's the Missouri of heaven oh for Missouri listeners as a Joe we love you Missouri a Missouri definition of God we really do love you I'm from Kentucky I'm saying and I'm a Cub fan so I'm trying to hide some distance I have a good thing yeah well even like let's just even say so far what Mormonism redefines because we talked about how same words different dictionary what's the deal with being baptized for dead people oh that is it's kind of the idea I believe I I'm not I haven't done as much research this I don't want to speak more than I yeah I don't want to speak out of turn exactly because that the last thing I want to speak to a clip actually that's not what we believe kind of a thing but um but yeah so Mormonism is what we talked about you look it up they redefine God they redefine Christ they redefine eternal destiny they redefine biblical revelation and they redefine the gospel and salvation yeah so again it's just an example how like we say the same words but we mean completely different things by them and in here so I will say everyone has faulty theology yes everyone does the only person has perfect theology has got himself so let me let me let me you already answer this question but let me phrase the question as somebody because we do we have Mormon listeners I'm gonna talk about the let me do this and then you talk about the baptism for the dead thing so let me let me phrase it like like somebody let's say dude we got a bunch of people by the way we have tons of former Mormons who got saved and are now members at lake points like way more than anybody would realize so let's say it's somebody who they've got a Mormon family member it's never honestly they've never even thought about like dude are they actually like not a Christian they never thought about that and so there's an emotional aspect and what they're saying Paul they might say something like man but isn't this just like a different denomination like isn't that you know like you know the Lutherans they they have some different beliefs than you guys is Baptist but we're all Christian right so like what would you say to that oh but it's actually a tactic of the od is church right now uh it is it is a huge tactic of saying hey we're just another denomination uh kind of thing basically people are being gassed lit into that and so I'd say hey for sure we all have and within denominations for example and that would be to say hey different denominations disagree on things of theology by the way yes we do but we do something called theological tree action important listen real if you're a listener listen really close I wish I I've had to know this I would put the triangle on the screen for us right now but if you can imagine a triangle at the top first order issues middle second order issues third at the very bottom third order issues there are certain things that's actually styled at the bottom there's certain things that if we disagree upon all right we have different opinions but it may it doesn't mean we have a different god and it doesn't even mean that we should go to a different church like there's things unfortunately frankly usually it's most times more conservative people will take third order issues and take them to second order issues they oh I can't even be the same churches you've had to agree with you okay a second order issue is usually the idea of like hey man we are still brothers and sisters and Christ but we probably shouldn't be part of the same church or denomination so like make this very practical like if you want to start and I want to start a church together but you want to do infant baptism and I want to do believer's baptism that's gonna be really hard better idea just to have two different churches yeah and but we can still partner together and other things yep but in terms of that that's going to be really hard kind of to do together there's first order issues so third order with we disagree of different opinions second order if we disagree probably should have a different church domination first order things that if you and I disagree on we have a different faith yeah there's a certain set of this is really important and then I want you to talk yeah there is a certain set of doctrines that are so important that if you do not believe those things you are no longer in a meaningful sense a Christian yes so and what you're saying is hey man denomination are Christians who disagree on second order issues and third order issues yes different religions are where we disagree on first order issues yeah and because Mormons disagree on the nature of God the nature of Jesus the nature of salvation these are first order issues yeah and then this is a national boundary not a state boundary exactly well even thinking about there's an reason why I focus because we could focus on so many different categories of things we believe different things on baptism like you're gonna hit here in a second but the reason I picked these is because literally you can get Bible verses that say like for example if you preach a different gospel let them be accursed even if it's an angel in heaven book a revelation anyone who adds to the words of these books basically I have let them be accursed a big one that most people miss but it's so important on this one is and if you go to the book of Exodus go to the golden calf issue dude listen real close right here this is really important this is very important because this because it kind of getting in connecting if hey if you redefine the gospel you're accursed if you redefine God scripture you're accursed and if you redefine God so if you look at the golden calf issue they hey make gods force but if you actually go believe as Aaron who says tomorrow we're holding a festival to to the Lord it says Yahweh so when you this is really important when you look in your Bible when Aaron says we're hold this a golden calf is a idol yeah the demonic idol yes and Aaron says tomorrow we're holding a festival and your English Bible is going to say to the Lord and if you look in your English Bible notice Lord is in all caps anytime you see Lord and all caps in the Old Testament that's the way that your English Bible is signifying is the word Yahweh which is the proper name of God so point out why this important that Aaron said that oh it's so it's so important because they think oh by doing this we're attributing worship to God God shows up and it's like you know what your hearts were great your hearts were great hey you used the same words you meant different you know different things but hey it's all good it's all the same thing no God is ticked and if you look at the rest of the Old Testament when it refers this it talks about them worshiping idols and basically different gods and by the way to your point we're saying it earlier in the New Testament what we see Paul says hey people who think they're offering worship to Nato is offering a worship to who a demons demon and so God isn't cool if you use the same names but you mean different things by them so what's the deal with the B of Eptus? Yeah you know it's interesting I actually have distant family numbers who are leaders in the Mormon church and so I actually heard you know some of them yeah some of them live there and some of them live in if I'm not mistaken in Utah okay so I've heard this from them before here so basically like what happens is a living temple worthy Mormon goes to an LDS temple and they will perform an ordinance on behalf of somebody who has been who has died and so although they can do baptism for the dead confirmation of the Holy Ghost and Dalman ceremony sealing eternal marriage slash family and then what they can get married to the dead person have a spiritual marriage with a dead person they do an ordinance that does performs a sealing and it says here that's an eternal marriage slash family and so what happens is LDS theology teaches that after death the soul goes to the spirit world and missionary work continues there and the deceased person is top Mormonism and they can either accept the proxy ordinance and then they continue to progress to get to exaltation or they can reject it and then there's no exalt exaltation and so if the dead person accepts the teaching they get to exaltation if they and then they receive whatever the ordinance is and so what what a lot of these folks will do they'll go back into their family trees and then they'll do that for the dead members of the family to try to get them to the next level and then ultimately exaltation. Paul is the on the deal where they barred black people from being church members until civil rights movement was that a curse of ham thing I bet it was I proud if I had to get in this one I'm always careful with this and when we do that while you're looking that up even even for our listeners who who aren't moments when you're an actor with moments or new it's really important actually if you can to try to say things in a way that they would agree with so even when I was the reason why I walked through I did or there's a kind of trade in trying to model had the conversation of like I will often ask hey is what I'm saying accurate of what you believe because I don't want to create a caricature because this can be hard because I always tell people in these conversations obviously there are times that we just got to blast out truth like right now especially when we're fostered. We're teaching people who are primarily Christians. Yeah exactly but when I'm having a conversation with someone I have to ask myself am I trying to win or am I trying to win them over. That's good. If I'm trying to win yeah I can just go at them and try to just drop truth bombs at them but if I'm actually trying to win them over to the truth man I'm gonna try to get them to the truth but just using a little bit of a different tactic so why you're looking that up at least when you put it then that's why I did the approach earlier just trying to model saying hey do you actually believe this and then say okay well then based on that let's think about that kind of a thing that's good um you could judge Pesor Joshua you mean me to it does look like if people are unfamiliar so Noah had three sons Shem Ham and J fifth Noah gets drunk and one of his sons quote looks upon his nakedness and if I remember I'm trying to find the verse I think it's a Genesis 9 where uh it says that God put a mark on him on him on hit I does it say his skin I can't remember but it says that God put a mark on him in some way and what's what racist people did like actual racist people did for a long time is they would say that that black skin was the mark of the curse of ham to try to say that African-American people were in some way like actually spiritually inferior obviously we believe the exact opposite of this they just make very clear the exact opposite of this and uh and so but yeah actually from what I'm reading it looks like Joseph Smith and Brigham Young both uh uh you know take this with a grain of salt I wish I could have researched this more it's it looks like both of them did agree with barring African-American people from church membership as a curse of ham interpretation if I'm reading this correctly but grain of salt. So they would they would probably disagree like today uh modern Mormon church would reject those affirmations yes yeah uh which is again it's a progressive revelation of a prophet uh somebody else come in and say and actually this is what we believe now yeah because like even though it's like hey I have a new word from God words we would say no no we want to go to the word once for all delivered by God to us so I even bring in this altogether again if I was just talking to you guys for moments we were having a conversation I'd say hey as kindly as I can say no I do not believe you're a Christian because you reject something like your view of God comes 1800 years later it contradicts every prophet every apostle every Jew every early Christian again by the way every heretical Christian sect because they and none of them would believe exactly what belief so it contradicts all of that and is based on a 14 year old's private vision of God in the woods by himself and so if lightness disqualifies doctrine Mormonism disqualifies itself there you go like by its own definitions and so with this because then people will then fire back well hey like but man it's changed millions of people's lives and this in the book of Mormon it's helped millions of people and I'm like as kindly as I can say that doesn't matter yeah it does because I could say that of every religion and it's holy book in the world like Satan is fine with you becoming a more moral happier person on your way to hell he's totally great with that because like I mean you know what like as people don't get this bug yes what Muslims it's helped their lives yeah and the Quran many would say hey it's helped me be a better person same thing with Buddha same thing with Hinduism all that kind of stuff it doesn't matter first I say first because we do believe the truth and they will make your life better we fully follow the way Jesus better but that doesn't first matter what first matter is is this true meaning does it point me to the one true God who wants to be known loves and worship for who he truly is yeah dude yeah just like yeah I talked to people in lobby all the time hey man I wasn't a Christian and I got a car accident and it woke me up to my need for God and I was and actually the car accident was a good thing I mean just because it had a car accident helped you that it mean I'm starting a car accident ministry you know okay let's just wrap it fire this real fastball and give me a two sentence answer so for for Mormon people you know what they'll say is man I prayed and I read the book of Mormon and I felt what the language they'll use is I felt a burning in my bosom a burning in my heart and that's how the God confirmed for me through this burning in my heart I know is true well I'm pretty sure the people the counsel of my see what has said the same thing yeah so like in other words like what if I felt that burning in my heart and it's the opposite of what you said yeah so like this is an excuse to say answer but there's a girl one time who really liked me like but for me I know this is bad for my female listeners like oh you jerk but she said what is like she was like man I prayed that if these feelings weren't from God he would take them away and Paul not only have God because God not take away they've gotten stronger I did not say what I'm about to say for the record I'm not a jury but in my head I thought you know because then she said God gives us our feelings for a reason which is basically what you just said and my in my head I thought well maybe God gives us our lack of feelings for a reason too yeah and I don't got them and so in other words like her thing was hey my feelings how I'm feeling like that is the truth and I'd say well the problem with that is I could say the same thing and I'm feeling something opposite of you and I believe something opposite of you yeah what I would yeah I'll just dovetail it uh hey man do you know who else can give you a burning in your heart Satan that's exactly right Satan can and so it's like man the other thing I'd say is burning in your bosom hey that happened to me when I saw the end of Toy Story 2 that didn't mean my kids toys come to life it went all go to sleep it's like hey man this is not an arbiter of truth that's right okay let me say do you have any last comments here was my big thing yeah in the final comments here I mean first Peter 315 but in your heart to review your crisis Lord always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asked you to give the reason for the hope that you have but do this with gentleness and respect Bible calls us to destroy arguments and also to love people people just two things I'm glad you actually probably I was trying to keep it short so I didn't say this earlier but I will say if you're interacting with the Mormon that is what you said earlier is exactly what most of them say if you back them in kind of a logical coin like when I was talking about early God the Father my experiences that's what they're default because that's what they've been trained as well the Holy Spirit told me this and you can't contradict that and I'm like but that again is true of everybody anyone could say that of their experience and so with that I usually actually like to then put the ball in their court because that's their cop as I'm okay I literally will go to us that earlier I'm like hey you told me like what the church believed in the fourth century but they felt in the right to so why are you right and they're wrong and I put the ball back in their court a second thing I was to say hey you know we've been covered momentism but there's so other many other false teachings out there around different you know colds and beliefs and everything like that and it's almost impossible it pretty much isn't possible for your average person to know the real things the right beliefs and in response to all the false teachings and so I think this is pretty common when at least I've been taught it is the idea of hey when they're training people how to spot counterfeit money they don't train them in all the different counterfeits because there's too many instead what they train them on is the real thing the real money and so I'd say hey for Christians out there I wouldn't say hey you need to do a deep dive on Mormonism and on an island and all that most people don't have time instead but I would say is hey man deep dive on the real thing founding God's unchanging word and then also digging into what the churches historically believe throughout all time on that unchanging word if you'll come to know the real thing you'll be able to spot the fake kind of way faster yep hey I'll just do one last thing for any we throw up that book so we've got one of our church planters Jason Parrish out out he's in Salt Lake City so he's got thousands of converted Mormons at his church so before this episode I text Jason I was like hey dude what's the one go to book I was like hey if you got a if you got a Mormon friend or a Mormon family member give me the one book that's the best thing to hand him he said this is the one right here you got it all right it's called unveiling grace the story of how we found our way out of the Mormon church by Lynn K Wilder so that guy right there is and he's actually the second person I've heard that from so it must be legit so if you got somebody that's your book we're gonna put that in the show notes they can get the show notes by download the delay point app there you go download the point app find that into discipleship guide Carlos we close his empire absolutely heavenly father we thank you so much because you said I am the way I am the truth and I am the light in the life and so we right now we pray for your presence your wisdom men as we reflect on Mark chapter 10 and how you teach us to pursue a posture of being servants we pray that you may allow us to fix our focus in our eyes on you Jesus how we may continue to grow to become more like you seek greatness like you did father we pray for every listener right now I mean you give us wisdom to love people and to destroy arguments with conviction with grace with humility and love and father we pray for those that might be listening right now that maybe they're in the Mormon church or maybe they're wrestling with doubts about what they believe about God the Bible Jesus father I pray that you may open eyes that you may destroy lies that you may bring to salvation of people that are maybe unsure but the Holy Spirit that you may move in them that you may show them who you are and ultimately we just point other people to Jesus give us wisdom to love other people as well this way that we may continue to proclaim the only name that is above every name and that is the name of Jesus to which every knee will bow we love you we thank you for your word and we pray all this in your name Jesus Christ amen amen amen amen amen