The Super Bowl LX characters who changed their stories this season

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The UK's leading cashback site that adds joy whenever you spend money. Now, we both love spending money, but what's even better than spending money is getting cashback on the money you've spent. We've been finding it's great for everyday shopping as you can get money back on all the things you need and one. And by using Top Cashback regularly, it really builds up over time, which is talking things like your weekly food shop, grooming products and even pet food. And then by a second, pet food and then by saving money on the essentials, you can put that cash towards something a bit more fun with over 6000 browns to shop at and more than 20 years of trusted experience. Top Cashback makes earning while you spend easy. Join topcashback.co.uk today. Welcome to the athletic football show. I'm Robert Mays, our Super Bowl coverage rolls on today. We're doing a show that I think we might have done for the first time last year. Really enjoyed it last season and wanted to run it back. We wanted to talk about, I don't know, maybe a dozen names of guys who are participating in this Super Bowl in some capacity. Coach's general managers, players that have just changed the way we talk and think about them this year. The guys who have shifted the narrative around them because of what happened to them over the course of the 2025 season. Both quarterbacks fall into this category. Both had coaches fall into this category. Really enjoyed this discussion with Dave and Derek. Let's get to it right now. Coming to you guys live from Radio Row in San Francisco. This is Tuesday on the athletic football show. Joining me today is Dave Helmand and Derek Lassen. We're here. We did it. We made it. Long and winding road. What a journey it's been and what a departure from our usual podcasting headquarters is the epicenter of all of this madness right now. You always forget how crazy it is here. And this is only Tuesday. It's going to get even weirder than this. And the thing for me like this, I'm sure it's still exciting for you even though you've done it for a very long time. This is still very fresh to me to go to the Super Bowl. Do Radio Row. It's only my second time here. It's alive in here. You hung out with a cheddar bust of Fred Warner today? I did. It was incredible. I spent 10 minutes with him. Cheddar Fred as he wants it to be called specifically. So just to give people like a small peat behind the curtain. Obviously we're going to have what the other like a dozen players that we're going to talk to over the next few days. Right. So as those players offers rolled in every single linebacker, Derek immediately was like, yes, I would like to talk to that person. Just so you know where Derek's head is at at all times. That was the first thing he wanted to do. My eyes immediately soft-fed Warner and Carson Swessinger on the list. And I was like, yes, please. Thank you very much. We did some television stuff with Fred Warner. That's most of the stuff we're going to be doing with the players. We're going to be rolling that out on the athletic football show YouTube channel over the course of multiple different weeks. So be on the lookout for all of that. Again, we're going to have about a dozen of them speaking of athletic football show stuff on the internet. The merch store is now live. Highly encourage you guys to go check that out. The link to the merch store. I believe Scott told me earlier. I'm holding him to his word on this. It is in the show description. So go below, click on that. Buy some t-shirts. There's some ones with goblins on them. There are other different things. There's tote bags. The tote bags on this in the store. I have a tote bag. I'm going to use that. I don't think I can wear a t-shirt with my name on it. But I think I can use a tote bag with my name on it. Just wear the goblins. Just wear the goblins. I can also do that. I'm just imagining you at Trader Joe's with your Taff's tote bag. Pickin' up your various dips and throws. I always just think of Jason Newstedt from Metallica wearing Metallica t-shirts during Metallica shows. And I'm like, that's not cool. You can't do that. And so I'm trying to avoid that at all costs. We're doing a bunch of shows this week. Tomorrow we're doing one that I'm very excited about. We're going to talk about what has changed in the NFL since the last time the Patriots in the Seahawks played in the Super Bowl. It's actually a fun kind of book end. That was my first Super Bowl. And so this being my 11th one, it'll be a cool way to look at what the last decade in professional football has looked like. Weirdly enough, not to spoil that show. It's more sickle-cold than I thought it would be. Like we've actually come back around to a lot of those ideas in the last 10 years. And so I'm looking forward to that conversation. On Friday, we're going to have our big ass Super Bowl preview that we do every single year. The show that we're doing today, I've found it to be a cool kind of puzzle piece with the preview. Because when we do the preview show, it's a lot of 50,000 foot stuff. These are the larger scale schematic choices that might happen. And I feel like we get through the end of that preview without talking about the individual players enough. Remember what we're doing, the Bill's Jags preview for the Wildcard round? And I'm like, we haven't talked about Josh Allen and we're like 20 minutes into this thing. And so what we wanted to do today is kind of sit with the characters in this game. And the characters in this game, Dave, that feel like they've changed the story and the discussion about them the most as we've gone through this football season. Which, do you want me to start this off? Let's do it. So there's one guy that came to my mind. And obviously we can talk about the head coaches. We can talk about the quarterbacks. All of that stuff is perfectly fair. But one guy, when I went through this exercise that really jumped out to me, is by virtue of the position that he plays, probably not going to get a ton of real deal airtime, at least not in like the general Super Bowl hoopla. And it's Milton Williams and the career arc that he has been on over the last year, when he played in this game, by the way, which let's start there. Milton Williams has a chance to join a very short, very interesting list of players that have won consecutive championships with different football clubs. It's like Dion Sanders and Ken Norton Jr. have done it. Chris Long and LaGarrett Blunt did it recently with the Patriots and the Eagles. Yeah. It's not like it's not this crazy accomplishment, because there's so much luck of the draw that goes into it. But it's just an interesting list to be on. This is interesting, though. Milton Williams, two sacks and Super Bowl 59 last year, if he were to have a game like that on Sunday, could become like an all-time Super Bowl contributor Super Bowl pass rusher when you talk about having three, four, five sacks in the Super Bowl. You're talking about like Von Miller, Charles Haley, LC Greenwood did it way back like the Steel Curry days. That's even before sacks were like officially recorded. But you're talking about some of the all-time best players in terms of producing in the Super Bowl. Obviously, he's got to do that. But for me to even be thinking about it, it took me back to March when he very much felt like the guy that outplays his contract. And you're like, all right, well, of course the Eagles had to let this guy go. And of course, $104 million was too much to pay for him. But the Patriots had money to burn. And nine months later, I'm like, no, Milton Williams is pretty damn good. Maybe that was a great decision after all. There are two things I would point to with Milton Williams. I actually think that he represents like larger scale ideas about this game. Two different fronts. One is just the way that the Patriots wielded free agency to get to this moment. And like you said, I remember sitting at the combine in a conference room with an executive from a team. And we were going through free agents from that class from last year. And Milton Williams was the name that we were going over. And we were just discussing. He was discussing all of the potential pitfalls of the player like Milton Williams. Had never been a full-time guy was maybe the third most important pass rush around that team over the course of the entire season for the Eagles. Seemed like the classic he's going to get paid more than he should because their scarcity among the free agent classes all the time. That contract is immediately going to look like a bad one. Instead, it immediately looks like a bargain. Like he's getting paid $26 million a year and he has been better than that contract. Most of the time, I think when you look at free agency history over the last four or five years, teams have gotten smarter. You're not really seeing a lot of guys hitting free agency that are top 12-ish players in their positions and then getting paid like the best player in that position. That's what happened with Milton Williams. The only defensive tackle in the league making more than him per year is Chris Jones. Those contracts historically have been awful. Instead, it has been a good contract for the Patriots. The other kind of bigger picture idea, and we talked about this last week when I had Nate and Barnwall on the show, is this idea of the importance of interior pressure for these competing teams laid into the season. With Milton Williams, it doesn't even need to be a nebulous idea. It's literally the same player from the team that won the Super Bowl last year and now a team that is playing in the Super Bowl this year. I think what's funny too is I think a lot of people might have seen the Eagles move on from a player like that. He is the classic contract trap in free agency. I think a lot of people thought that I probably thought that a little bit going into it, or at least that he wouldn't be this caliber of player. We've talked about this before Robert II with free agency. It's like wire guys free agents. Well, the Eagles had Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter, and they were pretty confident that Maro Jomo could step into the Milton Williams role and be pretty good. They weren't even right about that. The Eagles weren't even wrong for believing. This is incredible. We are doing a Super Bowl show about the Patriots and the Seahawks, and Derek is still trying to cram Maro Jomo propaganda into this positive season. He's been a good player man. He's going to be the next minute of the Williams and he's on a good start. And I think a lot of this for me too is like Davey brought it up. The biggest trap I think a lot of people thought with him was like, well he's never been a full-time guy. Can't he do it? He steps into, he never had above a 45% snap count at any point with the Eagles. And then this year was like 65 to 70% depending on his health. And it's not just that. It's that when he was out of the line of the Patriots defense clearly did not have a real identity without him. It was like a 10% percentage point difference in their pressure rate when he was on an offensive. And they were immediately incredible again. And that like coincides a little bit with the bi-week stuff that we'll talk about on the preview. Like he is one of their most important players on defense. Like he's been incredible. Tendet connected to this before we move on from the Williams. And I want to make very clear this is an on-field thing only. Christian Barmore also has kind of changed the way that we think about him as a player. I mean you think about last year the fact that we weren't sure when or if Christian Barmore would ever play again. And this year he's been one of the most productive interior pass rushers in the entire league. And so the fact that the Patriots have two of those guys. I think pretty obviously has driven a lot of their success on defense especially in the back half of the year. So Milne Williams I think is one of the people that first came to my when we were going to do in the exercise. But I don't think he's like the headliner in terms of who you would pick out if you were like try to describe what this exercise is. Is it really as it relates to the Super Bowl? Sam Darnold is. Right? Yes. Sam Darnold and Drake may both. Yes. Because quarterback's drive these sorts of conversations. But I think with both of them I think they're not you're not just shoe warning them into a discussion like this. Sam Darnold when he signed that contract this off season three years 100 million is not like a massive contract for a quarterback even in free agency. Three years 100 million is the extension that Ryan Tannenhill signed like three and a half like four years ago. It's not a lot is the 18th highest A.A.V. among all quarterbacks in the NFL is what Sam Darnold is making right now. I think that that market and how relatively tepid it was right the see ox how many other teams were in on Sam Darnold in this free agent period. The Vikings at the right price and maybe the Steelers maybe the Steelers are flirting with it. That's the thing anybody could have signed Sam Darnold. Yes. And maybe Sam Darnold doesn't play this well in some of those other spot like like a Pittsburgh but the fact that he was available for everybody. Okay, but I feel there's there are some there's some gaslighting going on and I just mean that very generally it's not directed at anyone specific but I feel like people are trying to act like Sam Darnold's last two game as a Viking didn't scare the bejesus out of a lot of people. Absolutely. Like or that and then to your point there and it's it's something that I think we've all sort of owned up to over the course of this see Hawk season. This was not an obviously successful situation for Sam Darnold coming in either like people were terrified of the offensive line. They signed Cooper Cup and it was like what do you need two slots for? They're waiting to wait him in the trade away. So and I like I'm not talking to y'all obviously but I feel like as time has gone on and Sam has been amazing and he's been great in the playoffs. People are forgetting those very very real concerns specifically coming out of last season and I I firmly believe if Sam plays better in the preseason in the in the regular season finale and in the playoffs last year the market is way different like I very much think that that small sample size contributed to a lot of people being like I he is who we thought he was and that couldn't have been further from the and I think that's kind of the point here is that there are still some very real questions about what Sam Darnold was as a quarterback coming into this year and I think that I can't even like figure out how many times I've talked about this idea on the podcast over the last couple of years but I have been fascinated with this concept of like these second chance quarterbacks and what they have meant around the week and obviously Baker may feel it falls into this category. Geno Smith fell into this category before Sam Darnold did. Jere Gough I think in a way falls into this category. Tana Hill who you mentioned Tana Hill was one of these guys he was kind of the original version of this right and so this idea of these discarded formerly highly drafted quarterbacks that fizzled out in their first stop for one reason or another and then have found the second wind. I think that it is like a very important inefficiency that some of these teams have found and so I think Sam Darnold what we really learned is that for the most part the vast majority of quarterbacks in the NFL let's say 25 of the 32 at least I think are more products of their environment than we like to admit like most quarterbacks around the NFL vast majority of them rise and fall because of what's around and Sam Darnold is like a perfect example of that when we saw him in good circumstances in the last two years he has looked like a dramatically different player than he did early in his career and I think that they're going to be missteps that go along with that like the Justin Fields contract looked like it did because of what Sam Darnold did last year I firmly believe that and the Justin Fields contract did not work for the jets like they're going to be team seeking this out that ultimately fall short but this idea that if we put this type of guy with this type of talent in the right circumstances we can get the results that we got from Sam Darnold this year I think there are more of those quarterbacks in the NFL and more of those quarterbacks in recent NFL history than we probably like to admit and I think like to that point the less than I kind of take from this and from some of the other guys like maybe a Gino Smith, Riantan Hill whoever it's not that when we you know quote fixed them at their new spot that we're going to like take away all their blemishes Sam Darnold still has those moments it's that you learn to work with the good that they have like Sam Darnold's arm talent is phenomenal and he's a good athlete and they can boot him and Riantan Hill was a really good throw on some of that play action stuff it's just you know he was also going to take sacks which earlier in his career heard him but you wield some of that other stuff that he's good at and you can generate an offensive becomes the one seed in the AFC that just makes me think about you know we talk about teams having trouble finding young offensive coaches because those trees get just pruned and cleaned out at what point is like the NFL kick that into overdrive where it's like well we there are no more second chance quarterbacks to give contracts to like we've mined that out and I think that's that's kind of what happened with the Justin Fields thing again Sam Darnold signed for one year ten million dollars Justin feels is making double that on his deal I think in part because we've seen these guys succeed but at the same time there are going to be others that come along where for one reason or another they're distress asset enough to it large enough extent where they're going to be a value for some team that eventually does hit on them as like in the second go around I really really love the juxtaposition that Sam is getting this opportunity at the same time that Drake may be on the idealized quarterback path top five picks second year in the league might win MVP basically right away and like Jared golf obviously had his chances here it's not to say nobody else has been successful but to have a chance to have that guy win the Super Bowl against somebody who has taken the much more linear path it's just a very fun like I said juxtaposition between the two I think it's introducing another pathway to what a championship build can look like is if you have this type of quarterback with enough other stuff around him you can get it over the finish line even if they're have been success stories related to these guys Ryan Tanael that those Tennessee offenses were number one in the league in advance metrics they were the number one seed in the AFC what Jared golf has done in Detroit is unequivocally successful but to finally to take it all the way with this sort of quarterback I think changes the discussion around these sorts of quarterbacks and we talk about Sam Darnold maybe being at least partially a product of what sort of circumstances you dropped him into the guy who dictated those circumstances for the Seahawks this year and somebody who absolutely has changed the way that we talk about him we weren't sure what to make of clink who be a coming into this season now he's going to be the head coach of the Raiders and no one is like oh man I don't know about that in terms of what he did as a coordinator there is no questioning the fact that in this current environment you should be making a bet on clink who be act the exact same way that a team like the Jaguars made on Liam Cohen like I'm always a little bit worried when we only have one year of like super high level production I know that before the Saints got hurt in 2024 they were doing a lot of good stuff but over the course of an entire season we really only have one year of clink who be act having this sort of effect on an offense but at the same time I think it's more than enough for a team like the Raiders to look at him knowing they're going to draft a quarterback number one overall and think I trust this guy to put Fernando Mendoza in the right situations often enough and just think about us saying that in like week two of this year the fact that like oh yeah clink will be a clear-cut head coaching candidate and get one of these jobs because imagine saying that about his offense after week two the year before yes yes it's a I mean yeah which I've said that before I wish I wish we had seen a larger sample size of clink kubiak with a more healthy Saints offense because the way the wheels fell off of that thing was unreal and maybe they don't maintain those highs but so much stuff was lost between like weeks two and weeks six of that same season that it was hard to even quantify but even still getting to Seattle this year after that and again the criticism maybe not even criticism but the writing off of the Seahawks offense based on what they had and what they did even if you came around on it because of drafting grades able nobody expected this like even the biggest Seahawks supporters I think we're like yeah maybe we can flirt with competency to a higher degree but to actually in the first half of the season take over the way that they did and turn JS into what he was I cannot wait to see what this looks like in Vegas and that I feel like does it make you uncomfortable to be excited about the Raiders after what happened this year extremely like I don't want to slip on at least the circumstances so different that you're going from like 73 year old retread head coach to now like the young and up and coming play caller who's tried to do this a little bit at least it's such a different circumstance but like I don't want to slip on this banana peel again but I'm excited about it I am the faith that you're going to have in the offensive ecosystem I think is much much different than it would have been because that was the bargain we were trying to make with last year's Raiders like oh the offensive line can be fine enough that the rest will fall into place and it obviously wasn't but we've seen a little bit of proof of concept with that with what kubiak did in Seattle that that offensive line is probably better than the talent would suggest I had multiple stages that I went through with kubiak stuff upon his hiring I was more bullish on what the sea ox would be offensively because this is a system that consistently gets the most out of its offensive line because of what's asked of them on just a theoretical level I supported it as a pivot from what they did last year so structurally I did have faith in like what the offense would look like I think the floor would get raised but then I think there were a couple different moments of like oh okay now I really understand what it is was talking about it with Michael Sean yesterday like when he realized that the offense would be better than we expected for me it was like week two like watching them play against the Steelers I was like oh I'm in on this right like what they're trying to be I'm buying in on what they're what the structure of the offense is aspiring to very early I thought that but then I remember the moment in real time when I was like okay we're cooking with gas now when they played the cardinals on that Thursday night game early in the season and then you start to move beyond just the big picture structure of the offense and you get into some of the minutia and the granularity of the play calling the way they were using empty just some of the like little tiny levers he was able to pull that went beyond the big picture schematic kind of philosophy that's when I was like all right we're dealing with something different here this isn't just I'm bringing over a system that's going to raise the floor of things this is a on a play calling feel sequencing everything else level I'm also raising the ceiling of what this offense is and I think that changes the discussion about what clink who beac is been this year and just to me like the empty stuff was so good for two reasons one especially early in the year they just couldn't run the ball so on like third and three you're just like well we got a we've got a throw to convert this and I think with Sam Donald every now and then some of the blitz stuff can get him but if you go and empty and you just understress everything just make him throw immediately like it actually kind of works for you and so that to me was just like a coach understanding where are weak points how do I patch those holes I thought was nice and then like in terms of the play calling stuff he's done that stuff all the way through just a conference championship game like when they throw the 51 yard down the right side line to Rashid and the next play they tag a little alert smoke screen to JSM and they throw that at him that's just like yeah go attack the guy who just gave up a horrifying play it's wild to think and I'm taking this back to the Raiders aspect of it but most of the time the hot shot O.C. who was the leader in the clubhouse midway through the year to be assistant coach of the year and the team with the number one overall pick like this would be the news getter and the headline stealer among coaching hires in so many of the players are playing the game and I think this year was just strange with like John Harbob becoming available Kevin Stofansky becoming available it's very interesting to think Clint Kubiak is kind of flying under the radar as a guy who called one of the most impressive and surprising offenses of the year it feels like it's flying under the radar relative to how that would usually play but it's only been a year and I think that's part of it and I think that's why I think it's a really cool thing to see the guy who is in the car with the coaching pool overall you've seen like an expression of that with the offensive minded guys who have gotten these jobs clink ubeak one year look for not the play collar for the Rams because these trees have been picked over to such a degree that's where we now are the guys where you probably want to see it for one more year or I'd like to see him be a play collar that is no longer a prerequisite if you're just picking the next guy off of the McVeix Shanahan tree in the way and to be clear I think that there's risk associated with that just because I've always said this if I'm picking a play calling offensive minded head coach and I'm trying to make it if not bulletproof and something I feel very safe about the two things I would look at is did you do with a non-alien quarterback and did you do it for multiple years but now because the pool is so shallow we can't do that anymore you can't wait for those things you have to be able to pull the trigger on guys or be willing to pull the trigger on guys sooner than you would have been in previous cycles which and the fun thing this is not for the athletic football show or any of our incredibly dialed in intelligent listeners but in the football consciousness as a whole let the sea hawks put up some points here on Sunday night as clink ubeak transitions into a head coaching job with a number one overall pick and you will be cooking with gas in terms of like narrative in a way that I can't remember being associated with the Raiders like even when they when they ran it back with grudin I don't think it would compare if clink ubeak signs this signs off with like a really nice performance heading into that job clink ubeak's performance and just the overall quality of the offense I think was a little bit surprising even if you were bullish on the coordinating job among these two teams that was the most surprising because he was not the defensive coordinator coming into the season I don't think anybody on either of these staffs change the narrative around them more than Zach Kerr has over the course of this year because no one knew who he was coming into this year even over the course of the last like six weeks I don't think before they're by like anybody was really talking much about like what the sea hawk or the we joke about it we did we did the Patriots for a game of the week and I would bet the week was double digit like week ten and on and we were like oh by the way Zach Kerr calls this defense and I don't think really anybody outside of the New England area has talked much about that we talked about this yesterday with Chad graph but one of the things I really appreciate about just the Patriots defense over the course of this entire season the job that Kerr has done is that they've been a lot of different kinds of defenses over the course of the year like there's been a lot of trial and error there's been a lot of iteration there's been a lot of like all right well what if we did this what if we did that like if you look at it early in the season they were really low in the box and then there was a period in the middle of the season where they stopped doing that and then late in the season they started loading it up again if you look at the blitz rates like the fact that since week 14 they've been blitzing at 40% of their drop acts compared to 25% before the buy this has not been like a static thing with a guy who is the inside linebackers coach coming into the year calling and overseeing the defense we've seen them change and evolve and just kind of tweak this thing in real time multiple different times over the course of the year based on what they think they need and so beyond the overall quality of it the fact that they've been kind of maneuvering this thing over the course of the year and it's been this living breathing unit it's just incredibly impressive like what they've had to do to get it to this place by the time we got to the Super Bowl and even outside of some of the X's and O stuff which which has been really good especially since the buy and we'll talk more about that on the preview show it's that basically every player on this Patriots defense has been the best version of themself and like whether it's the free agent and Milton Williams that you sign like can he be this star we want him to absolutely have Harold Lanjian and Kale von Cheson both have been as good of free agent signings as you could hope even the young safeties that they have like Craig Woodson was like a fifth round rookie and he's been fantastic for them Jalen Hawkins was like in and out of different lineups and was on the Patriots him last year and wasn't really a starter is a starter for them this year and he's been really good like I just they have truly gotten the best version out of guys at all three levels of the defense which is it's hard to do as any play collar let alone not knowing that you're going to be the play collar until basically the season starts. I tried this theory out yesterday and because I think that the other guy in the staff that's we're talking about Josh Medanials I think the same about Josh Medanials now as it had coming into the year Josh Medanials is a fantastic offensive coordinator he should just be an offensive coordinator and be really good at that for the rest of his life. Mike Vrable I do think that he has changed the discussion around him this season and with Vrable specifically I think that when we have these CEO type of head coaches these guys rise and fall based on who the offensive coordinator in the quarterback is probably more than we'd like to admit and because those things are right in New England we've realized yet again how good of a coach Mike Vrable is because we obviously knew it went in Tennessee and they raised the level of pretty much everybody on that roster and then things fall apart there things kind of bottom out in a way because again they didn't have the play collar in the quarterback and then as soon as you give him those things again it's like oh yeah Mike Vrable is really really good as like this type of coach and this archetype of coach and I think this year has been a pretty firm reminder of that on all fronts and I would push back just slightly because I think overall you're right like the quality of your your play collar and the guys around you matter so much we've seen that with Philadelphia right and how Nick Sireon his hires have guided those seasons for better and for worse but as we just mentioned Vrable lost his DC like right at the start of the season and has been piecing this thing together not to take credit away from Zach Kerr he's been amazing but this I guess my point would be it hasn't been perfect all the way through and the way that he is still managed to guide this thing has been so impressive I like you bringing that up because again I said this to Chad yesterday I don't sure Vrable would never like admit this and I don't know like what sort of credit he deserves here but I remember watching those tightness defenses when Shane Bowen was there and really liking a lot of the stuff that they did and then being excited when the Giants saw it out Shane Bowen to be their defense coordinator and then you watch those defenses with the Giants and like this isn't very good and so the fact that Vrable multiple different times even if he is not in practice and when title like somebody that's overseeing or calling the defense I have a theory that like he has a hand in shaping what this thing has looked like on that side of the ball because Shane Bowen looks like a very different defense of coordinator with the Giants they did with the tightness I say this with love and admiration in my voice the current iteration of the Patriots defense reminds me a lot of the Vrable Titans defenses for the simple fact of the matter that they play like assholes compliment yes like the assholes that you admire where you're like ah you guys you got some shit in your neck you make everything difficult you play to the whistle arguably through the whistle and yes even if Vrable doesn't call the plays I like his DNA is all over his defenses here and when he was with Tennessee so I think Vrable has changed the conversation about him the other head coach involved in this game has absolutely changed the conversation about him and we'll get to Mike McDonald after this quick break in a world of noise and uncertainty IG is the investment platform the backshare take a reflexible stalks isa which gives you the freedom to withdraw funds any time and replace them in the same tax year all without losing your 20,000 pounds tax free allowance and if that's not enough pay no commission on your stalk shares and ETFs when you invest with IG IG trade invest progress your capsules at risk other fees may apply tax to depends on individual circumstances and a subject to change this podcast is sponsored by fire totally you get if you like your yogurt thick really thick say fire if you like your yogurt creamy and delicious mmm say fire if you want it rich in protein you know what to do say fire yeah available fat free low fat and full fat top it with fruit for breakfast already to your smoothies dips and dressings fire total yogurt it's pronounced fire for a reason oh here she is stylishly late to the bar again but it was worth the wait chic leather jacket straight leg jeans and designer heels nailed it and because it's all from tk max it was all up to 60% less than the RRP now that's going out out without going all out make every day iconic with tk max shop in store online or scroll to your hearts content on our app even if you were a fan of what Mike McDonald has done defense over the last couple years and I think you could very easily make the argument that when you take 2023 you last year in this year he has been the best defensive play call or in the NFL like the fact that the 2023 Ravens in the 2025 Seahawks have the second and third highest EPA per playmarks in the next gen era when blitzing just lets you know like what Mike McDonald is is a situational defensive play car he does it as well as anybody but this season and where what the Seahawks have put together offensively defensively special teams topped about on what they are as a team I think is reframe the discussion around Mike McDonald as a great defensive play call or into one of the great head coaches in the NFL and I think the gambit always when the Seahawks hired Mike McDonald's and I think it kind of plays off of an extension of what the 2023 Ravens Rams game looked like where okay we want the defensive version of these guys who are in our division that is the that's what they're trying to sell you when they hire Mike McDonald to be the coach of the Seahawks and he's been that like like the the idea of Mike McDonald as the offensive Sean McVeyer call Shanahan and kind of being the counter to what those guys have been and how they've shaped the NFL over the last decade the fact that he has made good on that and I think now in his own way will shape hiring practices around the league in a way that Sean McVeyer did he couldn't have gone better if you were trying to sell the Mike McDonald higher if you are this he's somehow is better than we even thought yes we already thought the same way in the playoffs yes exactly like if if the Seahawks had the fourth best defense in the league this year and we're like pretty dang good we all would have been like yeah that's exactly what you hired Mike McDonald to do the vision came together all that stuff and he has somehow been significantly better than that and I think the coolest part of it to me obviously the situational stuff is great like just the way that he clearly coaches the players like them everybody understands their leverage nobody is like taking poor rush lanes and stuff like that but to me it's like the player acquisition vision like understanding that okay if we want to be in some of these lighter fronts all of our edge players are going to be long we're also going to have defensive tackles the guys like Leonard Williams Byron Murphy who can move a little bit and so we can move the front how we want to we're going to get an earnest Jones so that we can cover the middle of the field that we want to then to put it all together we're going to draft a Nick M. and Wari so that we can do all this stuff and stay in there like just his vision for it was so clear from the get go and that's not always the case with some of these first time head coaches like they might think they have a vision and then it gets like a little hodgepodge they don't know what's going on but like Mike's from start to to now has been as clear and as put together as as I can like probably since McVeigh the nicest thing I can say about Mike McDonald is it matters for him and for the Seahawks organization very very much but the result of the game doesn't matter to me much like Sean McVeigh I mean he got to the Super Bowl in 2018 and they scored three points and it did nothing to stop that snowball effect of the league taking notice of what he was doing and his coaching tree and the way that he does things I think it's the same thing with Mike McDonald where like that snowball has already been pushed down the hill and the Seahawks could have a terrible game on Sunday and people are still going to be looking for this like well how do we get Mike McDonald into our building how to like the defensive play collar the guy that can reshape that I think his impact is already irreversible even if the Seahawks just play terrible for some reason and we talked about this little bit yesterday with Michael Sean I think it's worth just hitting one more time and just the types of head coaches were seeking out and why we're seeking them out right now if you look at how the last few years have gone there are going to be these unicorn type guys like McVeigh is the schematic advantage but also I think there's some cultural things and just like who he is a communicator all of that stuff but I compare McDonald more to like what Kyle Shanahan is where it's like Kyle Shanahan is not the most boisterous like up in front of the room personality and he's been incredibly successful and his teams play with attitude they play with effort they have a certain mentality to them McDonald is the same way where he's not going to be like this raw raw guy at the front of the room but you see the schematic advantage he gives you and then the cultural stuff is there I think too often we like to pretend we know who the like cultural winners are going to be where if you bring in this guy that's like this raw raw guy this leader of men type you're automatically going to get that we don't know who those guys are going to be so just give me the guy who is going to be the schematic advantage person and then there is a as good a chance he'll be the right culture center as these culture first guys the idea that Ben Johnson was like this this like weirdo nerd that we like oh man how's he going to do and then you look at he's a psycho and the guys have fed off of that in the same way that Mike McDonald is and so I know that the hit rate on this is never going to be perfect but give me the guy who is going to be a clear needle mover on his side of the ball and maybe we'll figure out some of the culture stuff later culture is all interpreted based on how much you're winning exactly and so how good are the players how good are you making the players if you're making them better they're going to buy in that's culture and so we just pretend like this like whole like new rockney win one for the gipper shit is what culture is in the NFL and it just to me is such a misguided conversation I mean Liam Cohen botched the Duval County thing 15 that's into his 10 years jack said coach they won 13 games this year yeah there's there's way more to it than that and if you win all that shit falls into line one way or the other you talked about the sea ox player acquisition and how much Mike McDonald has shaped that at the same time I think that the guy in charge of that front office has also changed the way that we talk about him because if John Schneider wins this and now we're looking at a very similar kind of arc to the one that how he was when I followed where you have a two-time Super Bowl winner with different coaches different quarterback to different eras and I did a video about the sea ox and they're billed this week on the YouTube channel I'm not sure when it's going to be out maybe by the time you guys watch listen to this episode but if you look at the sea ox I feel in like in a lot of ways the John Schneider era from 2010 to right now and I know Pete was in charge of the 53 and all that shit whatever but if you look at the John Schneider Pete it is a case study in the volatility of draft quality right you have this 2010 to 2012 run where they're the greatest drafters of all time they build a defining team of the 2010s they only win one Super Bowl but think you can make an argument they were the best team in the NFL for like five straight years then you have this fallow period for essentially all of the time since like 2013 through 2021 was a f***ing disaster if you look at the sea ox draft history and they're good but they top out they're not a great team they're a wild car car team you have a floor raising coach in a Pete Carroll you have a good quarterback in Russell Wilson you're always going to have a certain level of competency but it can never be pushed over the top and then you look at what the sea ox have drafted like from 2022 to right now and they're back in the Super Bowl and so I think that John Schneider for a while his reputation took a pretty big hit because of how bad those drafts were for a very long time and now if we get back to a place where 12 years after he lifted the Lombardi Chopey for the first time he does it again on the backs on the back in large part to the quality of those drafts we're going to be having a very different conversation about John Schneider than we would have had five years ago it's pretty remarkable to think I mean when you go through a drought like that odds are you're not going to be allowed to oversee a build to the next Super Bowl team and if they were never bad no and I think that's part of it they were never truly fell out yeah and well and the other thing is typically if you do get a shot at that you're going to have the through line of a quarterback and for the sea ox to move on from Russ and eventually have Pete leave and have John Schneider stay in place long enough to do that I guess you could point to how he as well obviously the Eagles did it with different quarterbacks too but for him to weather both of those storms long enough to be in this spot is it's very impressive and I think you're right the fact that the bottom never completely fell out on the sea hawks gave him the opportunity to do that but it's it's remarkable to be in this job for that long in between successes like this I know we haven't really talked about it on the show just like the sea hawks path to this place and how important the Russell Wilson trade is in that like it's I didn't even really I wasn't thinking about it in those terms until I started actually looking at the roster so obviously they trade Russell Wilson in 2022 right they get first round picks in 2022 and 2023 and second round picks in both of those drafts the players drafted with the four picks in the Russell Wilson trade are Devon witherspoon Charles Cross, Boy Maffe and Derek Hall not bad the worst players there are like really good the worst player among those guys is Russell Wilson well I mean like among the guys they just drafted us but the idea that you traded four better players for Russell Wilson is like it was a franchise altering move and that often happens like when you look at some of these great draft runs they're often fueled by one move that gives you more draft capital like the hot streak that Brad Holmes had when he started with the Lions is driven in part they had those two extra first round picks in the staffer trade but that deal for Russell Wilson shapes the current iteration of the sea hawks in a way that I don't really think we've talked about that much I mean it just feels like so much ancient history at this point like the fact that the Russell Wilson trade is still relatively recent just feels wild when you consider everything the sea hawks have gone through but even everything Russell Wilson and the Broncos have gone through I mean like the Broncos got back to the AFC title game after parting with Russ Russ has done the giants he did the Steelers it just it speaks to how quickly things change in the NFL that I mean that feels like five or six life cycles of the team ago but when you make such good long lasting decisions with those picks it lingers in Seattle that's for damn sure let's talk about a couple guys that took massive change the way that we talk about them Drake May seems seems like he falls into that category right like even if you were it was funny because I said this on the show we did with Nate and Barnwell last week I said even if you were like the world's biggest Drake May supporter Nate was like and you were number two right and so even if you were Derek or Nate in the way that you saw Drake May and believe in what he did last year and just horrendous circumstances the idea that Drake May would lead the league an EPA per drop back and be able to legitimate MVP candidate this year and be a driver for a team that went to the Super Bowl he just never could have predicted this like it's we've seen this happen at decent amount of times over essentially like what I would consider the modern quarterback era right like after my homes was drafted in 2017 you have this modern collection of quarterbacks we've seen this happen a bunch of different times homes won the MVP in a second season Marwan the MVP in a second season you could have tabed Drake May as the guy who would do that but for him to come on this strong Derek and to have this sort of year after a rookie season that was impressive given the circumstances but wasn't impressive in like an objective way it's a ridiculous like second year surge for a guy like this it's an incredible second year surge and I think what is so kind of different to me about how Drake May did it versus the way that Lamar or Patrick may have played it is they obviously Drake May is incredibly gifted he throws the ball incredibly hard like he's really accurate he's an he's an incredible athlete but Patrick my homes like it felt like them in the chiefs like they caught fire right like with Travis Kelsey and Tyree Kyl and so much of it was outside of the pocket in creation and Patrick my homes even came in and said he was like I couldn't really read coverages the way in like high level quarterback should until like three four years down the line obviously he wasn't an idiot when he won the MVP it's hard to do that but it was just like a different level what he was doing and then just into the Ravens like there's a very specific Greg Roman offense they kind of caught the league by by storm it was just like right time right place right moment and then he developed into this very cerebral quarterback Drake May immediately took the Josh Daniels offense which Josh McDaniels offense was just built for Tom Brady and it's just like spitting it everywhere and it's like I love this so much like it just that is that that second year jump we haven't really seen like that and for me to do it is just like he's incredible I love this so much because that's exactly right so with my homes in Lamar it was the ideal channeling of the hyper athletic skill set of the modern quarterback that pushed them to that place for Drake May it was channeling the most traditional quarterback you can possibly think of and actually raining in some of like the hyper athletic modern quarterback stuff that pushed him to this place because that's the thing like Josh McDaniels calls a good offense but a lot of it is like we're going to paint the quarterback and he's going to make us right and the 22 23 year old quarterback has made them right for four months now like it's just I can't believe it the other thing I think is fun about Drake May and I've heard this a lot during the playoffs obviously he hasn't played that well in the postseason and the Patriots defense deserves a hell of a lot of credit for getting to this point and a lot of people compare him to Joe burrow and what that run to the Super Bowl it feels very similar I just want to point out that the playoffs specifically do but Drake make up of the team and like the timeline there that's the closest comparison for me I 20 21 back but even still Drake May's performance in the season leading to this point was is above and beyond what Joe was doing at that point in his career like just do you disagree I disagree in the sense that like burrow like Drake May led to league in a lot of those categories but if you look at it I mean like even it was awesome but also like throwing to Jamar chase and T Higgins is a little bit of a yeah I'll see out a little bit I mean if so if you look at it so in 2021 the Bengals led the league in EPA per attempt they led the league they were a little bit lower in EPA per dropback because Joe Brow took astonishing amount of sacks that year but the the heights and like the firepower behind the passing offense in year two of Joe burrow I do think it touches up against what Drake May was this year and that actually stylistically is a little bit closer to like then what Patrick Mahomes in Lamar Jackson like when burrow took that jump it was a lot of like everything's going to be spread out yeah we're going to paint the picture for you and you're going to make it more than you're giving your credit for I really do far be it for me to hate on my guy Joe I just feel like I feel like what Drake did this year and to Derek's point the supporting cast in New England that's the difference right yeah that's the that's the difference that matters Joe was really good but I I'll go as far as I say I think like Drake May is the guy making this whole thing work yeah for New England whereas I think there were more hands in the equation between Jamar between T making that work for Cincinnati and on top of that I think I'll take Drake's numbers this year over what Joe did in 2020 I think all of that is right I just think it's stylistically in terms of how the team feels really does remind me of the bangles were lucky to be there yes like I know they almost won the game all that stuff but like they were lucky to be and I think it's a little bit of lucky to be it is completely valid to call this a for two of this run through the playoffs like that is very very fair I think but you're you kind of differentiating like if you're giving up the pie and who deserves the most credit I think Drake May has been a larger driver of this in Joe burrow wasn't 2020 I am giving Drake a much bigger slice of I think that's right would have been overall like the way those teams feel as I thought more about it over the last couple weeks I was like oh yeah this is just the 2021 bagels like it's exactly what this team feels like the other guy in this game that again I think took the biggest individual jump maybe of any single player I really liked what JSN was by the end of last season and obviously there are different stages to JSN's career early on slot only player they throw a million screens to him as I think back on it now and think about what he is now it's like a football crime like what JSN was early in his career but I you understand how you get there right like based on his the archetype of receiver he is in the skill set and just like how you think of him and so for JSN to go from a good player last year where you start to see some of the flashes of what he could be as a vertical option to not just being like a worthwhile number one in the offense but to arguably be like I don't know if you're picking receivers right now to start your offense with I think that Jamaran JJ are still to me one and two still after that how quickly does JSN come off the board is he third for me it's probably still Puka but then after that it might be him so can I can I share my take which is I never get tired of watching them play ever love them and I love that there's more coming into the league every year I am exhausted by the state of NFL receivers right now because I hear what you're saying but next year like people are already just trying to shove Justin Jefferson into the corner like you had a great route I'm not allowing that great I mean like every year there's a new guy and there's a new dude where you're like oh he's he's got to be top three and you're probably right but it is infuriating to think about where I'm what Jamar Justin Jefferson Puka JSN CD Lamb by the way George Pickens just jumped into the all pro conversation this year AJ Brown had a terrible year how far are you dropping him in the in the NFL receiver hierarchy like I and I genuinely don't know the answer to that question it's exhausting Nico Collins looked like he was going to take over the league last year still really really good by the way I'm not trying to compare contrast any of these guys I'm basically saying I don't have room in my brain to try to sort it all out I think one of the reasons that I'm as comfortable as I am putting JSN that high on a list like this is that the role he played and how central he was to the entire passing game in Seattle like the target shared that like ever at the the percentage of the passing offense that is comprised of JSN is insane like there's aren't that many guys in the league who'd be capable of doing that that's why he was my vote for offensive player of the year when we did the award show it's it was the JSN show and by and large nobody was able to do anything about it and it's how he's doing it now like there have been over the last three four years guys who were really good but you weren't sure if they were like bonafide absolute superstar and to me the two that come to mind are CD Lamb and Puka Nuku where they started as a lot of slot only players they weren't really vertical necessarily it was a lot of like can we just get them yak opportunities and CD Lamb I think it was 2023 like really took that step of like okay he is our ex a little bit more he is going to be used as a deep outside the numbers guy Puka Nuku with this year did the same thing where he's more of like a go ball player outside the numbers and then JSN goes from coming out of college as pretty much a pure slot guy to now being like he can be our outside the numbers vertical guy if we need him to be the fact that he's like stepped up into that that is kind of like the final test of like are you an elite elite receiver and he's been able to do it so I love Puka right like I've made this known if you were starting a team right now and you're removing Sean McVeigh from the equation you would still pick Puka over JSN probably because I do think and this might be more like stylistically how I think about receivers I've decided it's the size is coming out well no this is also this is also the JMR chase versus Justin Jefferson thing the reason I would probably take JMR chase is when he has the ball who is scarier and JSN is great with the ball in his hands Puka Nuku is a nightmare and like that to me is there's just a little bit more force of nature that I kind of appreciate it's funny that to me I I love the the route running nuance and stuff so much that's always what I gravity to with receivers and so like the shoulder stuff the JSN does and the blind spot stuff the JSN does and the throttling down the JSN does like that speaks to me like my is like the aesthetics I want from a receiver he fills all of those things and the fact that Puka is the one that does it for you it's like it speaks to our like very different football value systems with that position specifically because for me it's like who are the linebackers that are playing receiver and he is the ultimate backer who is playing receiver and if you want to make an argument like what he does as a walker I think maybe like the tipping point kind of tie breaker and all of this but at the end of the day both of these guys are like there's a reason that we're having this sort of conversation that they are bumping up against that JSN JMR chase tier in a way that we wouldn't have even thought possible a couple of years ago all right before we move on we're going to take one more quick break why do we say older people are stuck in their ways are their shoes glued down why should they slow down well their batteries run out why are older workers called dinosaurs do they raw ageism sounds absurd doesn't it but those negative comments and assumptions add up limiting work health and who's valued will you question it so we can all age without limits ageism question it challenge it change it age without limits dot org please stand here with a gap another morning another reminder there's a gap to be careful of but maybe it's time to bridge the one between your nine to five and your dream of living life on your own terms at HSBC we know ambition looks different to everyone whether it's retiring early or leaving more for your family we can help because when it comes to unlocking your money's potential we know wealth search HSBC wealth today HSBC UK opening up a world of opportunity HSBC UK current account holders only hello this is Peter Dixon I am the narrator on Ian Dandelrores book a tosser's guide to leadership I highly recommend it for anyone who thinks they might be a tosser or who unfortunately has one for a boss read the book or better still allow me to read it to you it will change your life trust me a couple other seahawks that I think we can run through pretty quickly here guys that maybe you're a little one tier down but have absolutely changed the discussion about them to Marcus Lawrence going on this sort of like you victory lap at the end of his career has been remarkable to watch can we pause for a moment and marvel at the idea of leaving the cowboys and becoming a bigger face and a bigger name in the NFL landscape it's supposed to be the other way around and the Marcus Lawrence is he's been a great player for a long time he was an all pro well before he left Alice but this is easily the biggest star turn of his career and I know I mean there's 18 guys on this defense that deserve mention but especially in this run up to the playoffs and through the playoffs he's kind of become the the face and the focal point of the energy of this whole thing and I wouldn't have guessed that would happen after you leave Dallas but he would have because he said it and for him to call that shot in March and say well I'm not going to win a Super Bowl here and he was going to a Seattle team that most people comfortably viewed as the third best team in the division and here you are tank what what a story it's so cool and to me to like the signing of him speaks to what I was talking earlier about McDonald's vision is like anybody could assign to Marcus Lawrence then he signed for like $11 million a year almost like it was early any of it is guaranteed 42 million total but yeah like not very much guaranteed and even then people second guest it yes yeah 32 year old and whose had durability issues throughout his career he played four games the year before not very many people were in on this when he signed that deal and he's like N did games for them this year like N did games to me just I love when historic ass kicker gets the opportunity like this and I think Leonard Williams kind of similar right like I think it both of them being those sorts of players where they just are wrecking shop all the time and now you're in a defense that just truly highlights that exact skill set and that exact mentality has been very rewarding to watch with both of those guys to Marcus Lawrence was a divisive free agent topic last spring coming into this season to wreak woolen was a divisive free agent topic we were not sure what the final year of Tereq Walens contract would look like and what his free agent market would look like to watch Tereq Walen play the way that he has for this Seahawks defense I mean how much is Tereq Walen going to get paid this off season it's going to be a shouldn't be the number one corner on the market yes by a lot somebody is going to give Tereq Walen a ton of money for how he has played this year and that was far from a guarantee they're coming into the season we were talking about like are they just going to trade him because they're not sure he's going to be a player worth paying so why not just unload it they had depth at corner with guys like Josh Job you could play spoon outside and then worry is going to play the nickel like if they had traded in before the season or even before the deadline I think a lot of people would be like okay you've got enough bodies to kind of make up for this and do that and he's kind of just been awesome like the entire year but that's why I love the way that the Seahawks defense is built is that they don't think like that yeah in their mind it's like no we have good players well now it's not even just the amount of good players it's the stylistic pivots you can make based on the personnel that's on the field right like spoon is a different outside corner than Tereq Walen is and so when those two guys are in those roles you can do different things like the amount of man that they've played recently and the fact that like so if you look at it they do their corners boundary and field and so Job plays on the boundary because he just has less change of direction ability and overall athleticism and so the fact that spoon plays the field because he has that that is a necessary component of the way they want to play defense and I think them thinking about all of these tiny little pivot points as they are as they relate to their individual position groups well we have these types of bodies along the defensive line and when we have this collection of guys out there we can do this and when they're secondary well we have this type of bodies and these sorts of skill sets and we have this collection of guys out there we can do this and then if we change out one piece for this then we can pivot to that like their ability to do that and understand what those individual skill sets give them with those pivot points on defense that's in large part what makes the Seahawks defense what it is I think we've been we've said it throughout the season you talk about Seahawks and the Texans and the Texans have these freaky physical players and maybe they're one through eleven more talented but that that's the funny part the Seahawks go one through 16 yeah probably and it feels like we always joke it feels like they're playing with 12 because they are so interchangeable and they can bring guys in or lose guys to injury and not miss a beat and as much as you might love the Texans I don't think you can even say that about them and it's it's been so impressive and it's not really supposed to happen in the NFL like the whole point is that you're not supposed to have depth like this and for them to have created a unit like this that has so many capable guys is is one of the stories of the of the entire season so one is going to be a free agent this year the Patriots phoenix and class overall we talked about Milton Williams but I think there are a whole collection of guys that are the mid tier and then bargain signings they've made that have changed the way that we've thought about them and credit to you and obviously this is going to be a front of mind for you in a way that it's not going to be for the rest of us you believed in the Kalayev and chase on thing from the beginning I mean you had faith that I didn't want to say that could be like a needle moving player for the Patriots and the fact that he was and the the two guys that I've kind of connected when you look at the overall free agent hall from the Patriots combined Kalayev and chase on and Kyra's Tonga are making four million dollars against the cat for the Patriots this year and the Patriots defense would not be what it is without those two guys on it so I first of all I will take the credit thank you and I think about it every time chase on comes up where we were doing the season preview and you were like I mean you can call him a useful player if you want to when you had a nice leader all like you had like an okay year for the Raiders who care having said all of that I mean I never I never imagined this I just looked at it and I was like okay the guy is clearly talented he had a nice season for the Raiders and more importantly his career arc is like trended upward like if you go look over the last two or three years like he has gotten better every single season so for my able to identify him as a guy that he wanted to bring on board even if it's not for a lot of money I'm just like okay I trust that coach and I trust the infrastructure that they're putting in place like I bet he'll be useful I did not imagine him having more sacks this year than in the rest of his career combined which he did if you include the playoffs 10 and a half this year he had 10 coming in it's a remarkable story I did not see it coming to this degree but I'm a little biased I went to LSU and I I'm I'm very happy for him to be as much of a top 20 pick afterthought as you can be I mean it went bad especially during the Jacksonville years and I assume he's going to make a lot of money off of this probably not you know not marquee free agent signing but a season like this I mean you can stay in the league for a long time and five times what he made it exactly the same as $2 million he is on a $5 million deal this year he will get a life-changing contract in a couple of months and it sounds crazy to say I don't know if they get here without him like again the way the defense played over this playoff run and you look at a couple of the other creations the term useful is it relates to chase and I think very much relates to two other guys I'm thinking of Morgan Moses and Robert Spalane and like though not even just individually what they have been for the Patriots but what they represent as a good idea like Morgan Moses is the epitome of a we just need starting caliber right tackle play and we're just going to sign like he's done this three times he did for the Ravens he did it for the Jets and now he's doing it for the Patriots and so we just need a Morgan Moses type in free agency at right tackle it's been a thing for years to be a right tackle I don't have to think about exactly he's doing it again and then Spalane signing the deal that he did and being the type of player that he is where we don't value linebacker play in the NFL until you have until you like you refer a team that has bad linebacker play and then you understand like how important that it is and Spalane to me is like the exact type of player he's like the Morgan Moses of linebackers I'm gonna sign him he's gonna play here I'm never gonna think about it again and that's exactly what he has been for the Patriots one of the coolest things about this Patriots Super Bowl run is from here on out I'm just gonna have to stop and more heavily consider teams like this because it's easy to look and be like oh my god they spent the GDP of a small nation in free agency and how good are any of these guys really how much gastro Stefan digs have in the tank what are Kalevon chase on and Morgan Moses doing for you is Robert Spalane and a needle mover well granted you got to have the quarterback play but you can get to a Super Bowl building a team around a quarterback and free agency you can get to one hey if you win it who gives a shit like that's the whole point and yeah no I know I mean these guys are not going to be part of the long long term vision or not all of them anyway around Drake may but you're playing on Super Bowl weekend then it was worth it and my I just think about the bank you can get to one because you can microwave the team when you have a quarterback on a rookie deal eventually you need to start drafting well to sustain that success I'm not saying the Patriots won't but eventually you're going to need to fill the roster with cost controlled in house guys if you're going to sustain this and that becomes the next question for the Patriots after this no 100% and off the top of my I mean Milton Williams is the only guy that I'm circling is like foundational piece for the duration of that contract like there's a lot of work to do but you still you don't look at teams that spend like that and free agency coming off of a season like that and think that they can turn it around this quickly at least not usually all right that is all we've got for the guys who changed the way that we talk and think about them over the course of this season tomorrow we're going to chat a little bit about what has changed in the NFL and over the decade since the last time these two teams have played in the Super Bowl very much looking forward to that one as well as a quick reminder please check out the merch store the link to that store is available in the show description below if you're watching this on YouTube if you're a new viewer watcher whatever please subscribe to the YouTube channel we've got tons of stuff coming out of our time at Radio Row this week they're going to be rolling out over the next month or so so if you are not subscribed now is the time for now that's all we got appreciate you guys listen we'll talk to you very soon on BDBCI player the question has become more urgent how do we sort fact from fiction how can we believe what we see the hit drama returns that is not the shooter matches the others yes because it's all been corrected why am I the only one who's all the suspect this is big fight this is correction the new series of the capture famously on the liable things memories you can't hack a memory you understand the things that happened watch on BDBCI player when applying for grad roles there's a lot to take in big opportunities big clients big teams but don't get blinded by the big lights you need a nice balance for the personal stuff too like knowing you have someone in your corner from day one without that personal touch we'd just be another big firm we're big enough to grow your talent personal enough to see your potential that's beyond the ordinary search BDO early careers our graduate programs today hello it's Jo and James from Jo and James fact up and we're currently sponsored by top cashback the UK's leading cashback site that adds joy whenever you spend money now we both love spending money but what's even better than spending money is getting cashback on the money you've spent we've been finding it's great for everyday shopping as you can get money back on all the things you need and one and by using top 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