WarRoom Battleground EP 973: Poland’s Nationalist President Vetoes “Centre-Right” Government’s Plot To Give EU Say On Defence
0 min
•Mar 20, 20262 months agoSummary
Episode discusses Poland's President Nawrocki's veto of EU defense funding legislation that would have granted Brussels control over Polish military spending, and explores broader themes of EU sovereignty erosion, migration policy centralization, and the threat posed by centre-right political parties that fail to deliver on conservative promises.
Insights
- Centre-right establishment parties pose a greater threat to conservative voters than left-wing parties because they campaign on conservative values while implementing centrist policies, creating a 'trust gap' that fuels populist movements
- EU centralization mechanisms disguised as financial instruments (like the SAFE regulation) systematically transfer national sovereignty over defense and migration policy to Brussels bureaucrats
- Democratic gridlock in Europe results from artificial 'firewall' exclusions of populist parties from coalition-building, forcing mainstream parties to negotiate with left-wing parties instead of representing electoral majorities
- Poland's strategic defense independence is being undermined by EU funding conditions that prioritize German and French military-industrial interests over Polish production capacity and NATO alliance strength
- The 2015 migration crisis created modern populist movements across Europe, but establishment parties' refusal to acknowledge voter concerns while maintaining democratic forms creates a 'parchment guarantee' democracy lacking substantive legitimacy
Trends
EU regulatory capture of national defense budgets through conditional funding mechanismsCoordinated 'firewall' strategies by mainstream parties to exclude populist representation from legislative coalitionsMelonization pattern: centre-right opposition parties campaign as conservative but govern as centrists once electedCross-border alliance-building between ECR and Patriots for Europe groups on sovereignty issuesMigration policy weaponization as tool for EU centralization and member-state controlInstitutional monitoring and financial exclusion of individuals and businesses associated with populist partiesStrategic realignment of conservative voters away from establishment centre-right parties toward nationalist alternativesGerman political gridlock forcing CDU to negotiate with left parties despite AFD-CDU parliamentary majority on policy issues
Topics
EU Defense Spending SovereigntyPoland-EU RelationsNATO Strategic IndependenceEU Migration Policy CentralizationDemocratic Gridlock and Firewall ExclusionsCentre-Right Political FraudGerman Political RealignmentAFD Rise and Firewall StrategyEU Judicial ActivismNational Defense Industry ProtectionPopulist Movement FormationElectoral Representation vs. Coalition GovernanceEU Subsidiarity PrincipleGerman Immigration Policy LegacyThink Tank Coordination on Sovereignty
Companies
Rheinmetall
German defense contractor positioned to benefit from EU SAFE regulation funding directed through Poland
Birch Gold Group
Precious metals investment firm offering IRA/401k conversion services; episode sponsor
All Family Pharmacy
Online prescription medication service offering direct-to-consumer pharmacy model; episode sponsor
MyPatriot Supply
Emergency preparedness and long-term food storage company; episode sponsor
Tax Network USA
Tax resolution and IRS debt settlement services firm; episode sponsor
People
Karol Nawrocki
Polish President who vetoed EU defense funding legislation to protect national military sovereignty
Donald Tusk
Polish PM and former EU Council President pushing SAFE regulation funding despite presidential veto
Jerzy Kwaśniewski
Polish legal organization combating lawfare; discussed EU sovereignty erosion and defense policy centralization
Stephen K. Bannon
Podcast host conducting interviews on EU sovereignty and populist political movements
Aaron Agashar
Former CDU member who left centre-right party; interviewed Hans Georg Maaßen on German political gridlock
Hans Georg Maaßen
Former German intelligence chief monitored by his own agency for expressing populist-aligned political views
Friedrich Merz
German CDU leader and Chancellor; criticized as continuation of Merkel's centrist policies despite conservative campaign
Angela Merkel
Former German Chancellor whose 2015 migration policy created conditions for AFD rise and European political realignment
Giorgia Meloni
Italian PM cited as example of 'melonization' pattern where conservative opposition becomes centrist in government
Viktor Orbán
Hungarian PM leading Patriots for Europe group; allied with ECR on EU sovereignty issues
Matthias Corvinus
Hungarian think tank co-authoring reports on EU sovereignty with Audiojuris
Quotes
"This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies, because we're going to mediate evil on these people."
Steve Bannon•Opening
"It is the European Commission who will have the final say when it comes to military spending of Poland. This was an attack against Polish sovereignty, an attack against Polish defence system, and an attack against the Polish strategic alliance with United States."
Jerzy Kwaśniewski•Mid-episode
"What is dangerous is that you have a party which is just labeling itself as conservative to the voter, but not fulfilling any of its promises. This is now going on for actually my entire lifetime."
Aaron Agashar•Second segment
"If you make such a fundamental decision and the people organize themselves in an opposition party and if you then deny those people their vote, then maybe formally you have a democracy but you lose the spirit which is also necessary to have a democracy."
Aaron Agashar•Closing segment
"The firewall is not just a political concept. It is actually a spirit which is transforming German society and which has created circumstances so that you have people who have a public opinion and a private opinion, and people are often afraid to say what they really think."
Aaron Agashar•Second segment
Full Transcript
This is the primal scream of a dying regime. Pray for our enemies, because we're going to mediate evil on these people. Here's the thing, I've got a free shot on all these networks lying about the people. The people have had a belly full of it. I know you don't like hearing that. I know you've tried to do everything in the world to stop that, but you're not going to stop it. It's going to happen. And where do people like that go to share the big lie? Maga Media. I wish in my soul I wish that any of these people had a conscience. Ask yourself, what is my task and what is my purpose? If that answer is to save my country, this country will be saved. War Room. Here's your host, Stephen K. Bowne. Friday, 20th of March, and Nodomini, 2026. Hanwell here at the Helmholtz, Steve Bannon's War Room. Straight off with the show today. Cracking show, by the way, Stoke, folks, you want to stay tuned for all of this. We have the president and co-founder of Audiojuris, which is a law organization, combating lawfare in Poland. When I worked in the European Parliament, I remember that Audiojuris was one of the great organizations combating the attempt of left-wing anti-life judicial activism. I spoke at one of their conferences, and Jerzy Kwasniewski, as I say, president of Audiojuris, co-founder joins us today to help us navigate something that took place last week. I believe it's incredibly important. I've hardly seen it referred to in the news at all. Yes, welcome on to the show. I saw that Karol Navrotski, the president of Poland, vetoed a piece of government legislation pushed by Donald Tusk, former EU stalwart, great Atlanticist, as he claims to be. This measure would have allowed Poland to have access to some 48 billion euros worth of funding. But it was alone over, I think, 75 years. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money. It was a lot of money.� The part that was already foreseen a few years ago, when in November 2023 the European Parliament accepted a resolution on the huge constitutional reform of European Union. The resolution that has been not observed, not commented by many of the liberal media, but in fact it has paved the way for the next steps in centralization of the whole European Union and taking over sovereignty of the member states. And one of the ten points of the sovereignty to be taken away from the nations was military spending. And here we are in 2026, a safe mechanism, a regulation of the Council of Europe named instrument for strengthening Europe's security, the Ziffer Heights Aktion für Europa in German, a regulation that is presented as a best possible financial tool for funding military spending in member states. But in fact, it's a tool for enslavement of the nations and a tool for taking over military activity, military spending and military sovereignty of member states. And the loan that was attributed to Poland is 44 billion euro. It's a very important part of Polish defence budget. We need to underline that Poland has the third largest defence budget in Europe after Germany and France, but when it comes to the share in GDP, we are the first. We spent 5% of GDP, so we are far above what Germany or France and other countries spent in European Union for defence. And by this regulation, European Commission aims to take control over military spending of Poland. Until now, Poland was investing its funds in its own production capacity with partners from United States and South Korea. And of course, with this new instrument, with the safe instrument, it will be the European Commission who will have the final say when it comes to military spending of Poland. The mechanism works as any other loan. Poland is attributed 44 billion euro. It has to be spent in four years. It's loaned for 45 years. We'll have to give back three times more than we have received in those 45 years. But it is the European Commission who will accept the spending lists of the government. So of course, it was an attack against Polish sovereignty. It was an attack against Polish defence system. And it was an attack against the Polish strategic alliance with United States. I mentioned earlier in my introduction that Donald Tusk had served about 10 years ago as President of the European Council. Whilst he tried to leverage his EU credentials, do you think as Prime Minister here to force Poland into accepting this loan and ostensibly to be used on defence spending? That's my first question. And the second question I'll ask you on this. Given the Poland's sensibilities with regards to Russia right now, Poland is spoken very, very forcefully on the need to support NATO and the NATO infrastructure with regards to Russia. Does the fact that President Nawrocki vetoed this legislation indicate that is it a sovereignty thing or is he also suggesting that he doesn't actually think Russia is as grave a threat to Poland's security as the government is trying to suggest in order to justify this loan? When it comes to Donald Tusk and his European affiliation, it is very often said that Donald Tusk is the most important German politician in Poland. And of course, it was in the best interest of Germany to have this loan attributed to Poland and Polish government to accept the loan of the safe regulation. Reins Metall and other German companies already founded their subsidiaries in Poland waiting for the loan to be spent in virtually Polish companies, but in fact companies that were owned by German counterparts. Even the Bundesministerium, the German Federal Ministry for Defence openly said that it is in the best interest of Germany for Poland to accept the safe funding. And it was the major point of criticism against the Polish government from President Nawrocki and the Patriots camp that in fact he is taking a loan for 45 years for three generations. And it is the loan taken in the interest of our Western neighbour, not in the interest of the Polish defence system and Polish strategic alliance and not in the interest of development of NATO infrastructure and our own production capacity when it comes to defence. In answer to your second question, of course Russia is a strategic opponent of Poland for centuries and of course we do calculate the Russian threat into every strategy, defence strategy of Poland. And of course under the NATO alliance it is not the most important threat today. Under NATO and as a loyal ally of NATO pact we are secure and of course we need to prove our importance in the pact and that's why Poland is spending 5% of GDP for armament. And it is why Poland is attributing those funds and is also strategically picking its allies and investors from countries that are strategic to develop a Polish capacity of production and defence industry. And that all was undermined by the safe regulation which aims to support development of mostly French and German military industry with the cost of Polish and other countries budgets. And of course part of the safe regulated loan is also attributed to Ukraine without consent of the nations of Europe. Poland has already given up part of its tanks, part of its infrastructure, of its army to the Ukrainian ally, to the Ukrainian neighbour. And most of people in Poland do not believe that it is the best solution now to accept loans from European Union and to give this money in an important part to Mr Zewainski. And of course the fundamental control of your strategic defence decisions as well. My final question to you Yezzy Kowalsniewski on this point before we move on. A lot of the war in Posse is particularly interested at the dynamic between the two patriotic blocks, the nationalist blocks in the European Parliament, the European Conservatives and reformists, the ECR group. Of which George Mologni was the president until I think she might still be, or at least until recently. And then of course you have the slightly larger group that the Patriots for Europe which is Victor Orban's grouping. Both are nationalist groups. There's a very differing, I think the big difference is on the NATO question and the European defence issue. Given that President Navrotsky as part of the Law and Justice Party is within the European Conservatives and reformists, could you just give me 60 seconds and indicate to me whether the government, not the government, the president has been lobbied by the European Parliament. Could you just describe by his ECR group colleagues or affiliated colleagues in other national governments regarding his vetoing of the safe loan legislation? As far as you know it was mostly Christian Democrats, the EPP that was lobbying in Poland, nevertheless it was ineffective because EPP is an ally of Donald Tusk, even though he is the most liberal woke Prime Minister Poland has ever had, he's a member of the Christian Democrat Party in the European Parliament. And at the same time both Conservative parties, both Patriotic sovereign parties in European Conservatives and reformers and Patriots for Europe were very much supportive to the decision of President Navrotsky, especially here in Poland as our Conservative political scene is divided between those two parties as well, and both of them supported very strongly the decision to veto the Regulation and Implementation Act of the Polish Parliament. And we need to underline that the government of Donald Tusk, which is not following the Polish Constitution and does not recognize even the authority of the Polish Constitutional Tribunal, decided to enter the loan and to accept the loan even though it is contrary to the veto of President Navrotsky. So of course this lobby of European allies of Donald Tusk is effective, it is even more effective than the Constitution itself, even more effective than the Constitutional Act of vetoing the act of the Parliament. And the government already issued a decision that it will accept the loan even without statutory support, even without consent of the President so against the Constitution. Yezzy Krasniewski, please stand by, I'll be back to you in two minutes now specifically about this incredible report that you've just published and the conference that you organized based on that. But first folks, you might have noticed a couple of days ago, US national debt has now passed $39 trillion, that was up from $38 trillion, the benchmark passed I think four or five months ago. So think about this, in 2006 $20,000, equaled around 33 ounces of gold at spot price. If you'd have bought those 33 ounces of gold 20 years ago for $20,000 and sold them today at today's prices, you would sell them for about $165,000. That's why smart Americans are diversifying a portion of their savings into precious metals. That's why you need to consider buying gold from our friends at Birch Gold Group. For thousands of years gold has been a store of wealth and today it's a crucial part of any balanced strategy. Even better, Birch Gold can help you convert an existing IRA or 401K into a tax-sheltered retirement account in gold. Just text BANON to the number 989898 to receive your free info kit on gold. No obligation, just useful information. With an A plus rating with a better business bureau and tens of thousands of happy customers, let Birch Gold help you diversify with gold. And that will give you peace of mind. So text BANON to 989898. Again, BANON, let's B-A-N-O-N to 989898. And those details I will give you at the end of the show. So, Jerzy, you just published this paper, Taking Back Control from Brussels. The re-nationalization of the EU migration and its asylum policies. And you had an incredible conference organized on this just last week. Tell us a bit about this, I think it's a programmatic position paper. Tell us about that. And specifically, I want to draw the war room's attention to something that you put there on the back cover that only 25% of rejected migrants ever leave the European Union. Which is a horrific figure. I never realized it was as low as 25%. Tell us a bit about not only about your position paper here, but also about the conference last week. Yes, in fact, we have published the report together with Matthias Kurbinus Collegium from Hungary. And this is the second report that we jointly drafted. The first one last year, the Great Reset Restoring Member State Sovereignty in the European Union was also a success. It was commented worldwide. And this part of political program of sovereign forces in European Parliament now. It was even again commented by an apple balm hour after our presentation in the Heritage Foundation in DC. So the second report focuses on migration pact that is being implemented by the European Commission in Europe. And it aims to implement the so-called solidarity mechanism in migration. Meaning that countries that accept without any limits illegals from Africa and Middle East, like Spain today or Germany before, will be entitled to transfer those unwanted illegals, back home, but to Poland, Hungary or Finland. That's the brilliant idea of the bureaucrats of Brussels. The migration pact under the beautiful solidarity motto will be implemented this year. And next year, 2027 January, first trains packed with illegals will be sent to our countries. And the pact itself is part of the larger crisis of European Union. Since 2012, 14, since the beginning of the migration crisis and German policy of her at the common German policy of welcoming everyone without limit without limits, who are migrating to Europe. Either they are through asylum seekers or just economic migrants or just criminals looking for better opportunities in our countries. And with this with this document, we file a motion to all European governments to take back control from Brussels under the European treaties. There is a general rule of subsidiarity, meaning that if national governments are good enough in providing national policies and effective policies in a single issue, then Brussels has nothing to say. And the national governments should be leading this issue in our best interest is to take back control over asylum and migration policies. We also show one good example of Denmark. Denmark has negotiated when it was accessing European Union waiver of common policy on migration and asylum. And Denmark is doing much better than other countries of Europe when it comes to migration and asylum, as it is, of course, not not not obligated to follow the Brussels lead. We propose some concrete measures that are in line with the European treaties that are in line with the international public law. And of course, we also address the problem of judicial activism. We have two huge international courts in Europe, the European Court in Luxembourg, the EU court and the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg. And both those courts work in cooperation in order to make it impossible to implement effective control over migration and asylum policies in our nation states. We are not entitled to relocate migrants back to their home countries. It is illegal, according to the decisions of the Strasbourg Court. We are not entitled to build walls on our borders. So the walls built on the border of Poland, the walls that were in fences built by Hungarian government or Finnish governments are illegal from this point of view. And of course, with European Union taking more and more control over our sovereign policies, we need to strike back. And it is part of this agenda. And this conference was about the report and conferences like that was already held in Budapest and Brussels. The next will be held in Paris in order to make it more broadly recognized proposal for all the sovereign forces in Europe. You can see the conference that's going to be up on the screen in a couple of moments. Fantastic conference. Out of that conference, it emerged a figure again. Talking about Bremen in Germany, 73% of crime suspects in Bremen are non-German. Now, you say that you want some kind of coalition movement. It is a speech to say so in Germany. Yeah, you probably couldn't say you probably wouldn't literally wouldn't be able to say that in Germany. But in order to as it were take back these powers, repatriate these powers to the nation state from the European Union, a broad alliance is going to be necessary. Now, I realize that although you're is a bipartisan think tank, that you obviously quite closely affiliated with the PIS with law and justice. As is Matthias Corvinus Collegium quite closely associated with Victor Orbán's fiddish political movement, even though that of course is a non-political NGO. So, we're talking about the sort of alliance that's going to be necessary in order to convince the European Commission to take these responsibilities back to the nation state level. Are we going to see more of these alliances coming back to the point I was mentioning earlier? This is very much of what you've done here, very skillfully done. You brought together on this issue the two, as I was saying before, the two nationalist wings in effectively via their political groupings via their affiliated think tanks in the European Parliament. You have the European Conservatives and Reformists and you have the Patriots for Europe, Malone's faction and Orbán's faction. Really via their affiliated associated principal think tanks coming together on this issue. That is just the kind of alliance and unity that our movements are looking for right across the European Union and they're going to be necessary in order to take the Commission on and win. Would you agree with that? Absolutely. That's the way we are also organizing our conferences on this report and on the previous report on the great recept of European Union in all capitals of European Union. We are trying to get on board all those members from the ECR and from the Patriots for Europe as well, especially the think tanks that form the back office of those political movements, but also the politicians themselves. In Warsaw we had members from the Polish Parliament and the previous members of the European Parliament from both forces and also advisors of President Nawrodski who was speaking at the conference on migration as a volume. Yezzy Krasniewski, that is sadly all we have time for on the war room with you this evening. I want to repeat the fact I've had when I was in Brussels a great deal of respect for Aldo Joris. Great pleasure for me particularly to welcome you as co-founder onto the show. Before you bounce, where can people go on social media to keep up with your output and perhaps find out how they can get involved and support what you're doing? You may find Aldo Joris at x at Aldo Joris dash end. That's Aldo Joris International and also AldoJoris.pl. There is also an English version of the web page with all the reports and documents of our think tank. It was an honour to be with you in the war room. Thank you. Yezzy Krasniewski once again many thanks indeed and folks do go onto the website and do track down this report taking back control from Brussels. Very worth your time to read. Stay tuned we'll be back in two minutes after this short break. The next round of gold will be worth $165,000. Smart Americans diversify a portion of their savings into precious metals. 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And I think that Hans Georg Marsen is an interesting figure because he did serve as president of the federal office for the protection of the Constitution in Germany. And because of Dr. Marsen's publicly professed political expressions, he ended up being monitored via the very agency that he once led. As I say, an absolutely incredible interview that Aaron Agashar he has conducted with Dr. Marsen. I gather, Aaron, welcome back onto the show. Thank you. I gather you've known Dr. Marsen in a personal capacity as well for a number of years. So I'm sure that relationship of trust helped you there, navigate some of these more sensitive issues with him. One thing that came out of this interview, and I'd like to ask you about it now, is something that I mentioned myself in a speech in Sydney a couple of weeks ago. And that's this idea, and I'm very happy to see you mention this, that it's centre-right political groupings that really represents the threat to the people right now to the ordinary working families. It's not the left-wing political parties, it's the centre-right political parties. Because they're fundamentally presenting themselves to the people and to the electorate as the defenders of values which they have no intention of defending whatsoever. You mentioned that pretty explicitly in your interview. Tell me more about how you arrived at that conclusion. Yes, thank you so much for having me. I was myself, for many years, member of a centre-right party, the Christian Democrats in Germany. And I came to this conclusion based on a long and to be honest, very struggling past. Because I decided to become a member of the CDU because I considered myself to be a conservative and I stand for conservative values and principles. And over many years of trying, not only myself, but many other people, we could not actually form a majority to succeed Angela Merkel's term. So we had the hope and the expectation that the current chairman and chancellor of Germany, Friedrich Merz, would be the conservative hope after so many years of centrist, centre-left kind of policy. But this never happened. And after realizing this, I exited the party. So let me clarify why it is a threat. Erin, stop. Let me just clarify this. So you basically stuck with the CDU right throughout Merkel, right? Right throughout her, the end of her chancellorship. You stayed in the CDU all the way through when Friedrich Merz was leading the opposition as CDU. And it was only after he became chancellor, is that what you're saying? Have I got this right? That you realized the guys basically politically fraudulent and that's when you shifted your political affiliation to the AFD. Have I understood that correctly? Yeah, basically that's right. And the reason is because when you entered the CDU during the period of Angela Merkel, you had the hope and also the expectations that actually the majority of the members, the backbone of the parties are actual conservatives. And one day we will be able to have a real conservative successor. And all this hope was kind of projected into Friedrich Merz. Friedrich Merz was the conservative candidate. You can find many interviews actually in the mainstream media, warning about Friedrich Merz, portraying him as dangerously to right. And it turns out that he is not only not a real conservative, but exactly a continuation of Angela Merkel. And this is the moment where I think the last possible moment where a conservative can come to the conclusion that if he wants to stand for the principles, the CDU is not the right place for that, at least in Germany and at least right now. You know, we had exactly the same situation here in Italy a few years ago, exactly the same situation. You had Giorgio Malone, who was being criticized as being basically neo-fascist and all this, the hard line push on that. And of course the moment, you know, and there were of course some warnings saying actually this is, this is, no, she's not, she's going to be fraudulent, she's going to pivot to the center. And as you said that Friedrich Merz was a continuation of the Olaf Schultz chancellorship from before him, exactly the same way Giorgio Malone here in Italy is the continuation of the Draghi government. It's fascinating how the parallels between these two leaders. I didn't mean to interrupt you. Carry on with your analysis on the threat to centre-right Christian democracy generally in Europe. I just want to add, it's called melonization nowadays, right, of conservative parties. If a party in the opposition is portraying itself as somewhat conservative and right, and then when the party is elected on that premise, it's starting to change and transform and adapt the centrist views. It's even called melonization. So yeah, you're absolutely right. As you know, a real conservative, you in my opinion, must believe in the idea of a marketplace of, in the principle of the marketplace of ideas. And, you know, we don't want to have a situation where you have only our opinion. So it is totally legitimate to have different political points of view. Therefore, the left parties who present themselves as left are not the problem because they are honest. They declare their goals. They say what they want, illegal immigration or actually legalizing illegal immigration, bureaucracy, high taxes. All these policies are actually written in the party manifestos of left parties, and it is legitimate to have a party which stands for these principles. What is dangerous and what is actually the situation in Germany is that you have a party which is just labeling itself as conservative to the voter, but not fulfilling any of its promises. And this is now going on for actually my entire lifetime. So in particular with our history, you know, as Germans, Germans are very hesitant to vote for a party which is openly right, like the AFD, it's portraying itself as a real conservative and also right party. And because many in particular, you know, people with reputation, with bounds to, you know, higher class banking industry businesses, it is really hard to overcome this guilt associated to German history. And therefore, there is big hesitation to vote for the AFD and the CDU is perfectly using that by promising this electorate to be the much better alternative, you know, the professional and the serious alternative to the AFD. We maybe have similar goals, but we, you know, we are professionals and we know how to do this political business. And under this premise, they are attracting votes, and then they are totally neglecting the will. So you have a parliamentary majority already in Germany between the CDU and the AFD in the German parliament. But because of the firewall, no real legislation is passed based on the actual will of the populace. And the left party leader, of course, know that it will be a big scandal in the media and a backfire if the CDU even would consider speaking to the AFD. And therefore, the situation is, listen up, CDU, you have maybe 30 or 28% of the seats in the parliament, but you need to come with us left parties to get the necessary votes for legislation to pass. And therefore, we will dictate to you what the spirit of the legislation is. And this is the gridlock in which our society right now unfortunately is. Stand by you and I'm going to come back to ask you a little bit more about the firewall, which suddenly comes up, Brandt Maurer, I think the German word is if I've got the right, that comes up very much in your interview with Dr. Hanske, I'll be asking you a bit more about that interview just after this short word regarding one of our sponsors. Do you owe back taxes? Or perhaps you haven't filed in years. Now is the time to resolve your tax matters with the national conversation around the IRS. If you're publishing the income tax system, the IRS is fighting back and proving it's here to stay by becoming more aggressive than ever before. They're sending out more collection notices filing more tax liens and collecting billions more than in recent years. So the IRS can garnish your wages, levy your bank accounts, seize your retirement and even your home. If you owe or haven't filed, it's not a question of if the IRS will act its when. So right now tax network USA is offering a completely free IRS research and discovery call to show you exactly where you stand and what they can do to stop IRS's investigations on you before it's too late. They're powerful programs and strategies can save you thousands or even eliminate your debt entirely if you qualify. Don't make a costly mistake representing yourself or calling the IRS on your own. Waves your rights and costs you more money. They are not on your side. Get protected the right way with tax network USA and start the process on settling your tax matters once and for all do it today called 1 800 958 1000. That's 1 800 958 1000 or visit TN USA dot com slash banon for your free discovery call with tax network USA. Don't let the IRS be the first to act back now with the area and Agashar he area and just just give me 60 seconds if you will for for our largely American audience and explain what the firewall is imposed. It's like a very it's basically the cordon sanitary principle but just that the mainstream political parties are applying against the populist nationalist iterations across Europe. Just explain what that is in practice. What does it mean. Yeah. I think for the American audience the best way to explain it is you know think back to the time where you had the Tea Party movement and the GOP and now imagine the then leadership of the GOP being able to actually artificially exclude everybody who stood for the Tea Party from the party process. This is what essentially happened in Germany. It's not 100 percent the same because we don't have a majority voting system. The parties in Germany has a different roles than in the US. But essentially from you know political theoretical perspective it would be that you have all the established media the elite the mainstream being able to exclude the entire Tea Party movement from the GOP and with so that the Tea Party movement would never have been able to fundamentally transform the Republican party into what it became now. So all the people who are represented by the AFD will were never able to become part of the democratic process of Germany because there is something called firewall which means we will exclude every single representative from this spectrum. Even if he's elected to the parliament we will not even speak with him. And you know I need to share this with you. Imagine if you have a business and your business is openly associated to the AFD for instance you are selling services to the AFD and there are instances and I can prove that to you that in Germany. Banks cancel the relationship to a service to a provider of services if the provider has relationships to the AFD. And so the firewall is not just a political concept. It is actually a spirit which is transforming German society and which has created circumstances so that you know you have people who are not public opinion and then you have people who have a private opinion and the private opinion and the public opinion differs very often because people are often afraid to say yeah maybe the AFD is not wrong maybe I won't vote for them but I think they are right. Even that could destroy not only your reputation but you know your position in your job and your life at the end of the day. We're coming up to the end of our long time. It's been fascinating to hear you and analyse these issues. My last quick question to you is I know it's your view that basically it was Angela Merkel's admittance of a million Syrians into Germany that created the AFD in its modern form. Your interview here with Hans Georg Marsen really does talk about the difficulty of the German state and the lack of preparation for this absorption. One thing that came up in your interview was the state that Germany is going to be in in 30 years time with it might still be considered to be a liberal democracy and there's an interesting intuition that comes out of that interview on how democracies that become totalitarian survive under their democratic form. Would you just give me sort of 60 seconds on that and then we'll wrap up with your socials. Yes of course. You know basically what you can say is that the moment in 2015 when Angela Merkel let in all the immigrants into Germany and it was a unilateral decision by her government. It had no vote in the parliament transformed not only the destiny of Germany but also of Europe. You can argue that this decision contributed heavily to the Brexit vote in the UK. You can even argue that it had impact on the election in the US in 2016. And what happened with respect to Germany is actually the AFD which you see today which is in the polls the second largest party in Germany. This party was reborn after the immigration wave of 2015 because the party was already being in lower single digit numbers. And then after this influx of immigrants against the will of a substantial part of the society. Many people saw only the hope in the AFD. And if you make such a fundamental decision and the people organize themselves in an opposition party and if you then deny those people their vote not really their vote but actually the effect of their vote. Then maybe formally you have a democracy but you lose the spirit which is also necessary to have a democracy because democracy is let me just aside this very important quote for me. It's from Justice Antonin Scalia and it was in the Senate Judiciary Committee. He was sitting next to then Justice Breyer and he was explaining that when he comes to a law school in the US he says what makes the American constitution strong are not the civil rights. What makes the constitution strong is separation of powers because if you see the constitution of the Soviet Republic then you have much greater civil rights but this is only a parchment guarantee and adapting it to Germany what is going on is we have a democratic process but because of the handling of the AFD this democratic process is partly a parchment guarantee. Aaron we'll pick up this theme. Get back on the show. I will pick up on this in very quickly. Time is running out. Where do people go on social media to keep up with your writings and especially your article with Dr Hans Georg Marsden which I do recommend all about the president of the federal office of the protection of the constitution who ended up being monitored by the agency he once ran for expressing views very similar to the ones you've been doing now. On social media where do people go? Yeah, so on social media you can find me on X arian dash Germany and the article can be find on Hungarian conservative which is a leading conservative publication which is managed by my friends from the Danube Institute here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're here. 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Get protected the right way with Tax Network USA and start the process of settling your tax matters once and for all today. Call 1-800-958-1000. That's 1-800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash Bannon for your free discovery call with Tax Network USA. Let me repeat, 800-958-1000 tell them Bannon sent you. Don't let the IRS be the first to act. Take advantage of first mover advantage. You move.