Stephen Pearcy | The Magnificent Others

When we went out there, we were like, fired up, man. I'm talking, you know, I would put up, I'd put my band up against anybody. When I first heard you sing, and I first heard your band, I was like, this is different. Out of the blue, Doug goes, you can't play here anymore, the name Rack. And I go, why? He goes, it makes a club look bad. I was listening to a lot of hard rock at the time, and I remember thinking, this is weird. No, I remember thinking, this is the kind of band I want to be in. I still go, wow, this is cool, man. Don't give it away. We've got to mark it. Yeah, yeah. Steven, thank you so much for being here. I've wanted you on my show for so long, so I'm very honored to have you here. Thank you, brother. With a rock and roll life, you can jump into any point, but I think with you, the simplest way to do it, because there's some musical points I want to get at, is to kind of start at the beginning. San Diego area, late 50s? No, that would be... I was born in Long Beach, but anyway, I ended up in San... There's not a lot of great biographical information about your life. Yeah, and even in a book, there's another one coming someday. But I ended up in Los Angeles and whatever. I listened to music, but wasn't... But I want to talk about your early life. I'm not trying to cut you off. Yeah, right, right. Yeah, just give me your early life a bit, because... Well, because, you know, for kids like us growing up in Chicago, this part of the world was the magical land. Right. You guys had Disneyland. You had sunshine. We didn't have any sunshine or Disneyland. Yeah. So there's kind of an idyllic version that we have from the Midwest of what? California. Yeah. So I want you to give me your version as a kid. Well, as a kid, God, you go to the beach, sleep overnight, surf, wake up, surf at 5 a.m., smoke a lot of pot. and, you know, hang out, try to get the girls. And it was cool because you could actually sleep on the beach and not worry about somebody plummeting you with like a baby seal. I wouldn't do it nowadays. But, you know, you have your little gang and stuff. And I got into racing really young. I'd always see a race car across the street from my school, a funny car, NHRA drag racing funny car. so I was like wow and I drew a lot so I drew all you know and this and that and go touch it and everything and then we moved again in LA and there was another race car in the neighborhood I'm like well this is interesting right so I go bother this guy next thing you know we're moving to Westchester I'm riding my bike there's a dragster right I become friends with this guy and I'm like 14 and become his pit crew guy Right? It was crazy. Uh, this would have been like, wait, about... 68? Something like that. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, yeah. And I just got the bug for drag racing. It was like every weekend. It's wild, fast, exciting. And in that time, in American culture, drag racing had a huge, a much bigger place than it does now. Uh... You think that's fair? Yeah. It was kind of celebrated, Evel Knievel. Sure, sure. There was a lot of that kind of... Daredevil-ish. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And these guys were nuts. Drag racers back then. Especially back then. They were the real guys. Now it's millions of dollars and comfort. The roll cages, but back then they were crazy. It's not like when I was with them, you'd be sleeping under a truck, going to a race, you know? And that's what we did. And I was expected to go, I want to be a driver at 16. Well, that didn't happen. I went to San Diego. We ended up moving to San Diego. My mom had remarried. And we lived on this hilly area anyway. Not even a year being there, I get run over by a car, you know, and break both legs and made a mess of me. And like, you're not going to walk again, kind of stuff. And you're a kid going, holy shit. Tell me back to that story, because the information on what I could find was very sketchy on this. Because I think, I have a theory that our lives are often defined by trauma. Like they send us in a particular direction. Definitely. Okay. So you're just walking down the road, so he runs you over? No, I'm on a bike, leaving my friend's house. We were smoking out, you know, and I do. And I'm on a bike and collision course. And anyway, it busted me up. And I was like six months on my back in the hospital. And, you know, wah, wah, wah. Anyway, threw a lot of prayer and wheelchair to graduating to crutches. Then I got into music. Somebody gave me a guitar, acoustic guitar. Just to give you something to do? In the hospital. So I'm like, oh, okay. And I kind of adapted to it. And then when I got out and I was at home, all I could do was, I was in a wheelchair and recuperating. So it was play. So I started playing. Then it was like, really going to see the bands. The San Diego sports arena was real close. so who would you be seen in that oh man you see like black sabbath blue oyster cult fog hat one weekend the next weekend you'd get blue oyster cult and so and so they're always there almost seemed like every weekend there was a concert yeah david bowie uh you know it was great so i really got into music and then i started really playing guitar first became a guitar player and then somebody coaxed me into singing and i started singing once in a while in bands you know you play at the beach sure you know we play in the canyon once you figure out there's there's there's yeah yeah excitement attention money and girls attached right right and free everything you know um and which which created the the the catastrophe the band rat uh we'll get there we'll get there you know but so i'm so i become this like oh i'm okay i'm singing i'm just this long air beach guy okay they like my hair so can you sing it was like just like okay nothing better to do smoke a lot of pot and have fun go to the beach sing with these bands and i got to play guitar and then i started singing and playing guitar and then really getting into it that was It was around 1976, 77. Can I stop you there for a second? Yeah. Because when I first heard Rat, and I'm not trying to jump ahead as much as I'm just trying to define why I want to talk about this so much. I was a typical suburban Chicago heavy metal fan, like a lot of us were in the Midwest. But when I first heard you sing and I first heard your band, I was like, this is different. so in during in doing doing in doing research to talk to you today um i saw references to kiss uh uh bowie um gosh i wrote them down it's it's good because i think it really it kind of gave me a sense uh uh new york dolls alice cooper but i mean who would who would you who would you say kind of gave you that non-typical hard rock influence because i've always heard that in your music. Even to today, I hear your music. Because most heavy metal guys or rock guys or whatever, in a weird way, they have almost a limited set of influences. Where your influences, I always felt, so I want you to kind of tell me. They were broad. Okay, so give me some of those so I can understand. When I bought Jeff Beck Blow by Blow, the album, I liked live albums. I'd buy Jimi Hendrix Live, Led Zeppelin Live, and then until when I saw Zeppelin, forget it. It was Yeah. In 73, it was over. It was like, whoa. Enlightened, right? So the musician and you circa 76, 77, what would you define what it was you were hoping to do, or was it still too soon to figure that out? No, because we had backyard parties. You charge a buck, and you needed better gear. So I started figuring out the little business aspect of it. you know, and, you know, in doing so anyway, I was really into Blue Oyster Cult, believe it or not. Like hardcore. I think some of my chords and stuff that I write with are Blue Oyster Cult-ish. I don't know why. Very interesting guitar band. And sweet. Okay. See, that's what I'm saying. The glam kind of part of your... And Bowie. Ziggy Stardust. Forget about it. But, you know, you know most rock guys. If you sat down and talked to them, they know who Bowie is, but they didn't sit there and listen to Ziggy Stardust. But I always heard that in your music. You brought a broader kind of glammy sense. And, you know, I had a direction. And when I started really Mickey Rat, we actually became a band like, I'm going to do this for real. That was 70, late 78, 79, going through a couple of guys or whatever. And then I became this singer, guitar, rhythm guitar player guy. And I liked it. I didn't want to noodle. I didn't want to, you know. So that's where the Kiss thing came in. I'll be that Paul Stanley guy, you know, and I'll play guitar and I'll be, you'll be the lead guitar player like Buck Dharma, which my guitar player was lead guitar player at that time. So you had a vision of it rhythmically from you here. And then when a friend of mine kept hounding me, we were living in San Diego. We were playing big gigs. I mean, Mickey Ratt was, you know, we had no competition. Robin had his band Phenomenon. Jakey Lee had his band Teaser. Warren had his band Exciter. And then I had Mickey Ratt, and there were other bands that were kind of big, but Mickey Ratt kind of became a big band. We played all the Golden Hall, Plaza Hall, Bing Crosby Hall. We were playing in big places. But nothing was happening, right? So a friend of mine, I mean, you think about, wow, I want to be on a record. you know i want to record and to this day i still record off the cassette or anything i can find you know preferably a cassette you know normal and i started doing that back then so a little off the track here so i kind of when a friend told me you got to see this band in la called van halen i was like all right okay okay van halen another band okay we had gone up there before and saw quiet riot and made trips here and there just to see. But the day I went out by myself, I drove out by myself, and I don't know if I brought gear or anything, a pocket of weed. And I knew there was a backstage at the whiskey. My friend said, there's a backstage. They go up this, you know, this thing. We had not played there. I mean, Mickey Ratt, 70, this was 78. Yeah. So lo and behold, I see, you know, true story. It's a pigeon because it's so surreal. You know, I kick myself sometimes and go, do you know the kind of you've seen? And it was like no big deal. But it was. It was a big effect in my life. I saw David Lee walking up steps. I said, that might be doing. Hey, you want to smoke a joint? I'm yelling at this guy. He's like, come on. Right guy to ask. Right guy to ask, right? I wasn't interested in him. My friend went, you got to see the guitar player. The guitar player, yeah. Because I was a guitar guy. so anyway i smoke a joint with him and i go later where's the guitar guy and i'm tripping around the whiskey backstage by myself you know i was ready for anything and and there's ed right i go you're the guitar guy right and and yeah and somehow we just connected and just started talking right and we're talking about equipment i go yeah i love vox i got an old vox 30 and he just lit up like a firecracker you know he goes well i got one and i need another one can we exchange numbers you come up to la come to my pad and bring it and i go what are you nuts i i just got done watching something that was like a circus you know you're looking at dave and i'm like i don't want i got to figure out my my system what i'm actually going to do in this business be a singer be a guitar singer guy so anyway when i saw that four piece i went yeah okay anyway next and then uh a whole new world began and so if i'm following your flow here van halen helped you define like okay if this is going to be the standard if this is what's coming i got to get serious and i need to figure out who i am in this game 100 i went i'm moving to la and wow i went january 1 1980 who's f***ing gone. We're living in a garage about this size, and we're going to practice there, and I'm going to hustle and get us gigs. Yeah. And that's exactly what I did. Wow. But in the meantime, I kept going up to see Ed, and, you know, and saw their whole blossoming into the biggest band in the planet. I saw it. I was like, holy f***ing, Oz Festival. I mean, backstage, you're going, this is, I mean, whoa. It was bonkers. Mickey Rat, come on. You got to do something different here. So anyway, as my band was, Mickey Rat was imploding around 1981. Shakey was in the band. He left. Can I stop you there for one second, though, before we get to Robin Crosby? Yeah. I mean, Jake's obviously a phenomenal guitar player, but I'm just curious because, you know, you guys did the single Dr. Rock. He's not on it, and he didn't write. People think he did, but no. Because everywhere you look, he says he's on it. Okay, so set aside, Jake, nothing against Jake, but was Dr. Rock sort of the first time where it's like, it's serious, you're putting out a single? I have to put out a single. It feels serious. 100%. Okay. And I found a studio in Venice, California, because we lived in Culver City. Yeah. And we weren't into Rat Mansion West yet, the one-bedroom apartment, right? We were still in the hype. And anyway, where were we? Well, it's something about Dr. Rock to me. I'm, you know, because I'm a fan from the beginning. So I, you know, but it's interesting to go back and follow the bouncing ball, right? You know what's coming, but it's like, okay, at what point does this thing kind of get serious and click in? Well, as soon as I moved into town, because I had been watching Van Halen from 78 to 1980. Yeah. And I went, I saw what they did. They went to Gazzardi's, they became the house band, then they worked their way to the whiskey, became the house band. And that's. exactly what I did. I followed their schematic. I was taking notes, man. I was looking at the lights, the clothes, and then going back to San Diego. People were going, Mickey Ratt's crazy. Well, I'm learning some things, you know. But Dr. Rock seems to be the first time you step forward as a fan of your music. It seems the first time it's like, okay, there it is. I have to write a song. But also, there it is. There it is. There's the foundational formula, what ends up being a huge... I couldn't get in the door. I tried to get gigs you know i was walking around i was my own agent i didn't know anything you know but but it's but but i i love music in that it's interesting to watch like there's that moment where jimmy hendrix becomes jimmy hendrix right like you see clicks of him playing behind little richard or something and you're like there's jimmy hendrix like but he ain't jimmy hendrix yet sure it isn't until he goes to england and he works with you know chas chandler and so it all happens jimmy page was a studio musician yeah right right john paul jones you know what i mean he he needs a he's He ends up being in the Aardbirds. He needs a lead singer. He asks Steve Marriott to join. Steve Marriott says, no thanks, because I'm Steve Marriott. A few people did, right? Right. I don't need you. I mean, he's Steve Marriott. Right. He goes out and finds Robert Plant at 19, and John Bonham just happens to be attached to the singer. Isn't that crazy? So I'm saying it's always interesting when things are successful, you can find that moment where it sort of clicks. Well, it happened with us. With us, it happened. You know, we had a good thing with Jake. He just wanted to be a long guitar guy. But I heard two guitars in my songs. So when I wrote Driving on E and Dr. Rock, we just had to have something to get in the door. Here, this is my band, and have a photo. So, you know, I did whatever I could. Is it Rat or Mickey Rat? It was Mickey Rat, but Rat was bigger. You know, I was trying to make that transformation. And the reason that came about is where the Kiss thing again comes in is I love their logo. That it was just one thing, four things, and I went, Rat. And Rat's such a great band name. It's trippy. How did no one think of it before? I know. Yeah, right. And so I designed the logo, and it went through whatever. But anyway, what really clicked was, you know, Robin used to come to our shows a lot because his band imploded when he brought it to L.A., and my band was getting ready to implode. So when Jakey finally left to do D.O. or whatever it was, and then he got Oz. Yeah. But Robin used to always come to our gigs and force his way on stage and play. He just wanted to play because he was living in L.A. His band abandoned him, right? So he was like a mainstay. And then we were always tripping around me and Robin going to see the new bands, Motley, you know, et cetera. And then it was like, you know what? One night Robin and I just went, let's start this band. Yeah. Let's be really serious about this and start, let's start Mickey Rat. And I went, I mean Rat. And I went, let's go. And there you go. The phone calls started happening. So, because before Robin shows up in your life as a musician, I can certainly hear what you were going for. But something about the way Robin played guitar and wrote riffs seems to suddenly like click. Yeah. Did you feel that? Yeah, because Mickey Rat music is different than rap music. Yes. You know, it's almost like my solo stuff. I like to go all over the place. But with Mickey, with Rat, we, Robin and I, we knew it was almost like we wrote it out. We need an image. We need to do this. And it was that time, you know, 81, you know, 82, the whole European maiden, leopard, Motley was happening. We became friends and everybody started getting a little showy, showy. So, you know, and of course we love Aerosmith. That's why we do Walking the Dog. um and so i heard two guitars and robin heard two guitars and robin was happy being this guitar just holding down because he you know when you mentioned hendrix he would he would go places you know and then you have warren and when we got warren everything changed you know And then it was almost like overnight on the Cellar tour, that guy just became this, wow, brilliant guitarist. Yeah. You know, Warren. And we just clicked the way we wrote. It's like, what do you got? Like, round and round, it was written at Rat Mansion West, sitting around two tape recorders with guitars. And me just, you know, da-da-da-da-da. And so we kind of created a system of writing, you know. Can you walk me through that? Because I love this stuff. It would be like, you know, who's got what? Because it was four guys out of the road. And are you writing riffs too? Oh, 100%. Yeah. Probably, yeah, I don't know how to say something that, you know. But yeah, a lot of the riffs. I would come in with riffs and let them do what they do, you know. But is it fair to say, because I love the way Robin plays guitar. Yeah. Is it fair to say that even if you wrote the riff, the way Robin plays, it becomes like, that's the sound. 100%. With Warren now. No, I get that. Yeah, yeah. But, and I didn't really realize it, because again, I've been listening to you literally since, well, we'll get to that in a second. Day one. No, no. Well, not day one, but close. there's something about the way Robin plays guitar, Warren plays leads, and the kind of the glam influence sort of pipe through early 80s LA sunset strip music. It's like, there it is. And when you guys click, it's like, that's the sound. Okay, see, it turned to that with, I'd have to say, a lot of my direction because these guys were all over the place I have to I was pretty much arranging things around But that why I was asking about early influence because when I went back and listened to the early stuff, I hear you doing rap before rat. But isn't it interesting that you had the blueprint. Sure. You had the sort of vision of what you were after. I didn't have the components. Well, but again, you know how it is with musicians. You can bring one drummer in a room and say, hey, play this beat. Right. And it does nothing for you. Correct. And another drummer will come and play the exact same beat, and you go, that's it. Right. So something about the way Robin, even if Robin was playing your riffs, something about... Oh, yeah, 100%. It's like, it's so stark to me once I think it through. You know, Robin was a huge Hendrix fan. He was huge Scorpions. He listened to stuff that was like, you know, I mean, he went up there and abused his guitars, you know. He started out being the main guy. And Warren got so good so fast, we kind of went, well, we're going to make Warren. I mean, we actually thought out our moves, Robin and me, for the band. We're going to make Warren the guy now. I'm going to kick back and be the rhythm guy. Not a bad decision. And we put him in the forefront because he was progressing like just... He's a phenomenal musician. You know, slow down, you know? Even if you watch, because sometimes I'll check in on what you guys are up to. I'll see clips of him playing now, 2025. I gotta tell you, it's so crazy. And then here we are, we can get into that, you know, years later. and it's like being on stage in 1980s again. I mean, there's the guy, right? There's my guy. But he plays at such a phenomenally high level. And we cover each other on stage. You know, if I'm up or missus up, he'll give me a kick, you know? I mean, nothing's changed out there. And we laugh just like this. We go, holy shit, that's funny. Or we have a little chat up there going, this is insane, you know? You know those moments. Oh, yeah. It's like there's no time passes, but then here you are and you're still in this garage somewhere. Right. It's for real. Let me ask you this question. Because you'd spent years trying to put together what became Rad, and that's easy to say. It's like, well, there's the success, but obviously it just didn't happen in a hot second. No. Was there something you were looking for in the people you were working with? Was it a focus or a dedication or a musical vision? Or was it people writing? It was dedication. And what happens with success besides excess is the other cess. And that's the one where you spin out for a while and you don't know who's doing what. Everybody's in their own world and just ain't going to work. And then the tires start falling off. And that's what happened. And, you know, but like I say, when Warren jumped there, like now, we did the invasion celebration playing the music of Rat. Yeah. But it's like, why isn't it Rat? I'm like, that's not the point. The point is, Warren and I, the main guy, two main guys haven't seen each other in eight years. Can we get acquainted, you know, before we start talking about Rat, you know, because as far as I'm concerned, it's Rat. you know all i can do we can do is play the music and i knew when robin to be honest and i say it all the time is i knew when robin was going down and and he finally passed that was it i knew it i went well we did it i see you know and went into my stupor for a bunch of years and uh and came out of it years later and and but you know you don't need 40 years later it's like you look at what's happening with the 80s scene right now which really trips me out it's very commercial now it's like beyond commercial it's hair metal now you know whatever they call it today it's punk it's And so I tell peers, hey, man, embrace that. If you're not in the hair metal scene 40 years later, you know, you should be lucky, you know, because bands are out there with one guy. Well, Rudy Sarzo, who sat in that very chair. He's out there with Quiet Riot. Rudy's the greatest. And you see, I get it. I get it. Yeah. You know, it's... You know what it is. At the end of the day, it's about the music, right? Sure. And it's supposed to have a, you know, I have so much fun out there now the last however many years because we have a whole new direction. Everybody's, like I was saying out there, there's business and then there's business, business. You know, and granted, if it's there, I'll do the business, business, because I like the music business. I don't like a lot of it. I don't like that nobody can make money anymore. Nobody can make records. Why are you afraid to make a record? It's like, I'll make them all day long. I write every day. What are you going to do with this? I already have enough of it sitting around. you know um but you know i gotta tell you this whole scene how like we were mentioning out there it's the comeback or whatever you want to call it the 80s is so huge you know yeah these people really loved that time you know well i never had a problem with it i mean i was considered part of the generation that helped kill the 80s music but i love that yeah right but yeah why not and now a lot of those guys i mean who was it recently was playing round and round i got a clip of it anthrax yeah and i'll go and sing that with you guys literally nuts and i told them too you know i'm that i love that if i like you know want to get a kick i'll go which i do i'll go you know i you know i had the story with about duran duran and i go you know i'm gonna re-record girls on film and send it to Simon. That's what I did. Just to have fun or I want to do the wander. I've always liked that song. Let's go play it. That's what I love about my guys. That's what I was trying to set up before is this idea that I think the endurance of your music, because as you know, when you've had success, people tend to focus on one particular period of time. I deal with it too. And at the end of the day, it's great. It's fine. But there's more to it. There's way, way more to it. Way more to it. Because I listen to it and play music that people would go, what? Yeah. You know? And I'm going to take it there on this next record, like I told you. You should. You know, hope, you know, you and I could get something there. But... Don't give it away. We got to mark it. Yeah, yeah. But nowadays, you know, I've slowed down a bit, but I still like going out there. To me, it's like exercise. It's an interesting odyssey in your musical life that you ended up on Metal Massacre 1 for Metal Blade. Isn't that crazy? With Metallica and Steeler. And they re-released, actually, recently. You know, I was going to bring you something, The Reach for the Sky 45, the single I found 40 years later. But Metal Massacre, you know, when that went down, I was telling Brian, see, you know what the trip is? As I would be strolling down the strip trying to get gigs, right? Banging the tubular in the day. I would see Rick Rubin and I'd see Brian doing the exact same thing. Hustling. Hustling. And then years later, I'm like, holy, there's that dude who used to trip and bump into your door. Hey, wait a minute. I used to bump into Rick Rubin all the time. So you were the one knocking on the doors, getting the kicks? Oh, yeah. I was the one hustling, taking care of business. And, you know, it was a trip. Let me tell you. It wasn't always like. Give me the, like, you're in an unknown band. you know what's the spiel hey they go well i'll tell you trippy story like troubadour right all right so it's like you guys are the troubadour just blows my mind yeah this is the troubadour so we start playing you know i want a gig at the two so anyway they go well you gotta go to the guy's house i'm like okay who doug weston i don't know this guy well it says on the site doug west Let me tell you, he was a wacky. And anyway, I got in and out of that house as fast as I could, but I left my. Well, lo and behold, why'd you run out of the house? It was just not right. You know, and you have that feeling like this is a trip, because when you used to trip around with Motley and those guys, you'd be on a bus at 3.30 in the morning trying to go back to the garage, and you'd see some weird s*** or end up at a weird party, those guys and us, and chicks with dicks. I mean, just wacky s***, right? But Hollywood, you go, eh, it's Hollywood. so anyway that was my first thing so i get into the troubadour right and people knew us you know and we brought in some people but we had to play like how many stages did he have there he had one two one and then the main one was the one you wanted um but we ended up playing there and then at we played there about a half a dozen times and out of the blue doug goes you can't play anymore here anymore into the name rat and i go why he goes it makes the club look bad and i'm like gotta be kidding me so you know motley guys and the rat couple of the rat guys you know me robin we used to run around and call ourselves the gladiators right and you know cause trouble so anyway i go all right doug i'll play here under the name gladiators full-blown have the ticket still but there's a rat stamp on it yeah and we had a line sold out and then he went okay you can come back as rat and i go doug i don't want to play here anymore man the whiskey's my gig that's the next step boing boing you know yeah because if you play here you can't play there a month later two months later you know whatever but it was kind of cool And lo and behold, I got my way into the whiskey and followed the schematic and it worked. Talk a little bit about the first EP. Yeah. Was that on Atlantic or you guys did it on your own, right? We did it. Marshall. It later came out. Yeah. Okay. That's why I get confused. Yeah. He was like, you guys need a record. Motley had just put out Too Fast for Love. And they were selling out of their trunk. Doing good. Motley was. and we were right behind him who financed the record um a partner marshall's and it was only it didn't cost much we went in there over thanksgiving weekend if correct bobby knows everything i was yeah but i think it was over a thanksgiving weekend or something and we went in recorded next day mixed and it was done a one day pretty much a couple day weekend uh event and that was it but it was us live that was we were recording live in there and it that record is so bad i still want to try to get it um out or i will i'll get it out um what's prohibiting it coming out or being reissued or well some things need to be finalized you know okay before but it's out there so it's like it's not even going to make a difference if i put it out there you know it's already there people had it yeah 40 43 years later so here's where i come into your story somehow i'm in chicago living in a basement 1983 i believe is the year and somehow i get the you think you're tough saying seven inch wow so that's the first time i ever heard rap wow before the first album then you got the atlantic no i got yeah we re-released it i know but i got the I got the wow the single on the original vinyl the original label time lapse oh time coast right oh keep it keep it there's only so many of those so somehow one of those found its way to me mmm and I and I was listening to a lot of hard rock at the time and I remember thinking this is weird no I remember thinking this is the kind of band I want to be in because because no because it had those other influences yeah you know they're not going to heavy metal and I love heavy metal. So yell at me if you want, not you. Sure do. But, you know, the knock on heavy metal from people who don't love heavy metal is stupid. Yeah. Or it's too much about Vikings and shit. Yeah, right, right. But your music didn't, it sounded, because I was also listening to Adam Ant and... Me too. Okay, so I'm listening to this and I'm like, this is different, but I couldn't, you know, whatever I was, 15, I couldn't... I'm telling you, dude, Adam Ant was a big influence on, and I hate to say it, Duran Duran, because I love fashion. Is it influenced kind of the way you used to sing up top? Because you didn't sing like, when your voice is high, you don't sing like a lot of rock singers. You almost sing more like an alternative singer. I hope you know what I mean by the genres. I would say maybe, yeah. Alternative singers sing a little bit more emotionally. Sure. It's not about hitting the big note or being tough. Oh, yeah, right. It's more of a vibe. That's why when you think Adam Ant, the way he sings up high, it's more of a thing. So when I think of you up high, it's like a thing. Does that make sense? I know we're not talking music language. It does. I don't know if it would make sense to somebody else, but to us, it makes sense. Yeah. You know, but it's weird. I tell people, Adam Ant, yeah. I mean, I got turned on to them in like 82. Yeah, 84. Before, you know, one, and I'd go to these dance clubs, it'd be Duran Duran. Stand and Deliver. All of that. And it was so bitchy. And I go, and then, and then when the image thing came around, we were kind of fashion-y. You could think, what are they trying to do? Heavy metal Duran Duran. Now I was like trying to do anything, right? Find our niche. We didn't want to be the leather studs. We were already there. But even I remember seeing you on television early eighties and you looked more alternative to me. Yeah, we did. We did. But I'm saying you in particular. Yeah. But I liked that. Was that conscious in your mind or was that just who you were? No, what was conscious was we wanted to look different. We wanted to look like a gang, you know, like Motley had their own little thing, you know. We wanted all of us just to look like a gang, you know, like pirates, you know, and that was our cement, you know, our image came up and Robin and I kind of created, you know, we were cement pirates, man, you know, and so we might as well look it, you know. Cement pirates, I like that. Yeah, right? Walking up and down the strip in your ship. But at one time, we were getting a little fashion-y, and actually fashion metal. We tried it. You know, you do what you have to do, because the OG guys in the 80s scene, believe it or not, were people from Metal Massacre. They were Armored Saint, Bitch, Rat, Wasp, Motley. uh there were other bands snow there was not snow um venice there were plenty other bands that were huge that didn't make it but the ogs it's really interesting to think about it you know i don't know betsy bitch is on there bitch is on that one but metallica i mean we did a couple games of metallica you know one at a roller rink billy barty's roller rink you know billy barty wow Billy Barty's Rollery, Metallica and Rat. How about that? And then we played together with Saxon. And that's really what kind of opened the door for us, you know. How did the harder rock metal fans see you guys at that time? Were they cool with you or were you too melodic? Interesting. No, because when we went out there, we were like, fired up, man. I'm talking, you know, I would put up as, I'd put my band up against anybody. I mean, dead serious, like, you want to go there? Let's go, you know, get up. And it was all about just, you know, and we were heavy. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. When I heard you think you're tough, I'm like, heavy, but it's cool. Really melodic, right? But it's cool too. Yeah. It has a swagger or something. Yeah. You could talk about Robin's writing. That's robin i just arranged it and what are what are the lyrics what a riff you know i know right and we probably got in trouble for that too because you'd go see bands right yeah and matter of fact i think we did but tell me tell me well i think i actually know the band too uh we robin and i went to orange county to see uh who was it probably wasp and some other band oh what was their name but they had a riff like that and i think robin kind of took it in and really not going you know well knock knock uh here you've swiped our song and but you can't really copyright a riff i think i think that's my that's my legal understanding i'm not a lawyer but yeah you can't trademark your name um what is it song titles uh oh okay that's what it is but uh yeah but anyway we got we got slapped but it was a great song i remember the first time hearing that again rob and i were always out on the strip right always doing a scene and i remember we're coming home from who knows where and you think you're tough comes on uh one of the big stations kmet we're like whoa the you know songs on the radio yeah and then we turn it to another stage it's on again right and we're just looked at each other and went okay it's on here we go uh was there's you know unfortunately when people think of robin's life they often think about his issues with addiction and obviously his health issues but but you know you're standing at let's say let's say you're right at the moment before you guys take off and when you take off you take off like a rock Yeah. Was he having issues at that point? Or was he just, everybody was just partying and it was just... Everybody was just everybody. Nothing changed. I mean, we were just the way we were. Yeah. I mean, all of us, all five of us, you know, no one of us can say, no, I had much together. Yeah. If it wasn't for, uh, actually Marshall keeping everybody in line for as long as he did. And I talked to him to this day, you know, and because we shared some crazy moments man you know he headline madison square garden you know you do that kind of and to be honest with you and i say this and i've said it before i don't remember a lot of those years it's almost like it never existed is it because you were messed up or is just no it's just a blur it was it's just it was just a blur i i i acknowledge the some great things like headlining home, you know, your arena at San Diego or the Forum or Madison, but anything else in between, it's like wiped from my memory. And it's, no, I'm being serious. Well, why, do you have a reason for that, you think? No, it's just that it was just, you know, somebody put something out about the life of musicians recently, and I sent it to Christy, actually. I go, here, check this out. We were just talking about it. Christy's your wife, yeah? Yeah, how weird it is for musicians. You know, you're in front of however many thousands of people, and all of a sudden, you're in a room. Silence. Well, I think... Except for the whistling in your ear, but... Right? And because there were times we couldn't go out, and especially when you're like in Japan and stuff, and it's just like surreal. It's almost like, is this really going down? You know I get it we popular and whatever but some of this shit kind of funny you know So I kind of may be out there but I don And I tell people sometimes I go man I don know what happened but I lived through it you know All right. Well, let's light the fuse on the rocket. Yes. Lighting the fuse on the rocket. Oh, yeah. So Atlantic shows up at some point. Oh, yes. Tell me that day. Beverly Theater, if I'm correct. We have a showcase, and I don't know if it's the only lead or forward opening, but we had some Atlantic guys come down because we were drawing big. Motley had, man, next step, went to the next step, opening up for Ozzy and Arena, whatever. And we were next. We couldn't play in L.A. anymore. We played Santa Monica Civic. You play here. Well, we're going to play. Can't play anywhere. Okay. Right. So we showcased at Beverly Theater, great gig. Atlantic was there and they signed us on the spot. Wow. Yeah. It was that crazy. And me and, you know, Robin and I would be going, if it's good enough for Zeppelin and the Stones, it's good enough for Rat. And off we went. Yeah. You know, and... What was your... Because the producer was Bo Hill? Bo Hill. Okay. Well, but before Bo Hill sort of shows up in this mixture, this cocktail, What was your vision for the album? Well... Were you thinking, we have to pivot to be slightly more commercial, we gotta do exactly what we're doing? I think our whole trip was like, we have the opportunity now to really try to make a record. And we got serious, you know? A lot of those songs on the record, we had played live. So, you know, we wanted that live thing on the record. on the record. Bo was a staff producer. It's kind of like we got signed, but only if that guy is producing the record, Doug Morse. So it was a weird thing. We didn't care. We were in the studio. Let's rock. Nothing changed. We were partying, doing our thing, and we laid it down. Because there's not a tremendous amount of difference in your musical vision before Bo Hill shows up as producer. But he obviously harnessed something that was important. So give me that part of it. Okay, with Bo, and I still love it to this day, is we actually had a system of working with me. Because he would come up with ideas, and I would be open-minded. Why not, right? Hey, whatever works. Okay. You know, so you do the best you can. But he had some great ideas and some words and things. But as we went along, like another Planet Plus record, another Planet Plus record, another Planet Plus record, it started getting trippy to where I didn't even want to write lyrics until I'd give them my songs. I'd go, here's one of my songs. You guys work with it. So we have all the songs. I'm talking like maybe Reach or Dancing or one of those. and to where it got weird. The guys, and I didn't know what I was singing because Bo would always make me change. So I would never get really hung up on what I was writing after the first two records. Okay, if you can quantify what he was asking you to be as opposed to what you had sort of brought in. Well, he wanted more commercialism. I mean, hit, hit, hit. I mean, you gotta understand, when Sell It happened and Round, it was like, we didn't know the one else. We didn't know the one else. And we had no break. That's another downfall of the band, is we never had a break. You go tour, record, tour, record, tour. And good luck. Okay, for the first two records, it's okay. But after that, as you know, you can beat yourself up. And that's not happening. But in the studio, it was cool, because I like Bo. He would give me great ideas, and I'd try them. Why not, right? And I appreciate it more now because over the years and on some of these records, I've had the opportunity to write with some of the best writers. I love it. I mean, man, Desmond, Jim Valance, Hudson. I love it. Knowledge, you know. So you were cool with, I know this is a lame word. Crying anything. But let's call it the cover. Without giving it up. Well, because. Because we did. Because I know Nicky decently well. We were friendly for a while and talked a lot. Nicky had always struggled with Motley Crue's integrity, how fans viewed Motley as a rock band versus the commercial necessities of being a big band. And Nicky was a commercial writer. Sure. So, you know, he wrestled with that. So in your case, it seems like you didn't really wrestle with that. You were kind of... I was open to, you know, because hey, I always did what I did, write songs. Yeah. It either works or it doesn't work. Those guys take it, they arrange it, or Bo gets a hold of it, and then it's like, wow, that's way cool. And I'm literally talking the song, way cool. Yeah. You know, he has a lot to do with that. Because the width in your singles is pretty wide. Yes. It's not like there's just kind of this one rat sound and you guys had some success. There's some really interesting choices, different feelings different and i love that see i see that's one thing that only we could we got away with you know well of your of the bands of your particular generation that came out of that this scene in la yeah i mean and i'm proud of that because we tried and and it worked for us like way cool rock band gets away but i think it has a lot to do with the way you sing yeah presentation sure no but i but i go back to the the quality of your voice being sort of different. I think you didn't fall into the traps that rock singers fall into. Like, I gotta sound tough or I gotta do this. And you know what's interesting is as we're talking about singing and stuff, it's like, you know, when you're out there, I've had a peeve lately about people bitching about- Tell me your peeve. About people, be it fans or other musicians or whatever, like, giving other musicians shit you know for like well he doesn't sound like he sounds well 40 some years later i don't think so uh do you sound like you sound 40 years later yeah uh he doesn't move like that i mean granted there are some guys that should kind of pull out of the pull out you know i i even tell my peers hey whatever dude but that's only love right but but i i go well no no i don't sound like that there's no way i'm gonna go body talk you know some of these songs i mean shame shame shame forget about it you know hey can we do this song like are you out of your mind i did i did within the last couple years i i do this with artists i really love i'll go back and i listen to the the albums all in a row you basically how they came out and it does seem as your albums went on through this the let's call it rat period number one the 10 year the okay whatever but You seem to have seen higher and then higher. And what was that about? I don't know. And you know what? It's like. By the end of that run, you're singing so freaking high. I don't. And dude, I was beat that still. Bo would beat me up. But I got to tell you the other day, I heard one of our songs and it was so fast. I'm like, turn it down. I mean, the speed. It was like. And I'm like, oh, God, I got to complain about that. Put that out there. You know, granted, it's not like Paige going, house is the holy, right? Spin it up to make plants. I see, yeah. You know, but no, no intention. But Bo would just work my shame, like shame, right? We did the detonator tour. Yeah, I might've gotten away with it a little now and then, but you know, you work with it. Okay, so because it's obviously it's the most explored part of your life. That's why I'm least interested in exploring now because I'm not interested. I just feel like a lot of that information is out there. So it's not to skip past these incredible years because there's a lot of great music. Yeah, a lot of good stuff. But now that you know what you know and you know how it ended, let's call it Rat period number one, what's your take sitting here today on how you view that period? Do you have empathy for yourself? Do you think I would have done it differently? I'm cool with how it all went down? 1,000% I would have done it differently because when I created the band Rat, As my boys know, and they know now, that everything would have kept working if you just, you know, I didn't have all the answers. I just created the thing. You know what I mean? And I liked my, you know, and there was a lot of my songs, you know. The whole EP is all me. I wrote the whole EP except for Tough. You know, I give Robin credit because he was my right-hand man. you know it's like yeah brother why not you know but you know i did a lot of those riffs and and and stuff and it could have been cool it just got you know so what's what happens it happens i get it in a summary way what if you're if if if we're sitting like we're sitting here give me like your two or three reasons like why did it go sideways too many cooks you know okay i'm gonna freak you out here ready okay there's literally a line here on my notes lots of cooks in the kitchen 100 because it was cool the first few years you know with robin and me directing the madness and those guys know we we knew what we were doing because like i say i followed the van halen schematic blame it on them my work ethic was like we're gonna kick ass we're gonna look great. We're going to do this. It was like, just go for it. Then it wasn't that anymore. Well, what do you attribute that to? Is it ego? Is it drugs? Success. Everything. Okay. Whatever comes with success, you know? But I'm speaking like a brother here, but like when I look at musicians that I've dealt with, when they can't handle success or the juice or the glare of the lights, I mean, at the end of the day, isn't it ultimately on them? Yeah. But when you start wanting to do things against the grain and, you know, you've got like, like mutiny on the bounty and they all, you know, they all went after me and they all fell. So, you know, I'm the last man standing. So the mutiny, are we talking the mutiny at the end of the 80s, early 90s period? Even now, I'm still fighting, but I'm the last man standing, and I'm proud of what we did. It's like, guys, you know, we did a good thing. It's like Marshall Burrell says, hey, man, you had your moment. It was crazy, you know, but it was a beautiful thing. And I just don't know why, you know, it confuses me sometimes how, I don't know, what happens to some people. you know, especially when you give them something that really isn't theirs. They get a piece of something that they really don't know how to handle or control or, you know, call me out, motherfucker. You know, I know where it's at. They don't know how to do their shit. I do. I made it work many times. Is part of your, is part of your, is the center for you because, look, this was your vision from the beginning. you were doing this before they all kind of showed up. So even today, that's the thread that follows all the way back. 100%. I just want to understand. And they might, you know, I don't think they, you know, there's animosity for that or whatever, but I didn't have all the answers. I just, you know, like I say, you create something really good, and you give some away for no reason, you know, just to be cool. Because playing the parlor game, of all the bands that get kind of lumped into the hair metal category, I never thought of you guys as hair metal. I just don't think that's right for you. I don't know why. I think Rad is one of those bands that stands almost like Motley. Poor rock band. But Motley and you guys stand out of all the other bands. I don't know why. Is the influences or the swagger or the attitude or the openness? I think it was, with them, it was just, man, our tenacity. and tenacity and... But you not see what I'm talking about from a musical point of view? Yeah. I'm not arguing. I'm just saying... Oh, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah, I get it. Because there's a lot... We were a little... Rat was different. I can actually say that, that the band is different than a lot of the... It's, to me, to me as a fan and observer of the time, it's... But you know what? I have to, and I've learned to love the hair metal thing because when you... Somebody says hair metal, they go, oh, yeah, you mean Rat, Def Leppard, and then you're there. I'd rather be there than not at all. That's called business. I'm just making a qualitative musical argument. I get it. So the reason I was going down this rabbit hole was, and I want to talk about what happened when Rat kind of dissolves there for a hot minute. But R.A.T., of all the bands, I would say even more than Motley, was uniquely positioned to not transition into grunge, but actually ride the wave that grunge brought in. Because the riffs of R.A.T. are not that different than the riffs of alternative music. Sure, sure. Some of them are crazy. It's kind of the same-ish. See, it is. It is. And that's probably... I mean, you must have laughed when you heard grunge, because you're like, this is really not that different. No, it's not at all. And that's why... The down-tuning and all the... Yeah, yeah. That's why I get off on these new bands, because I see... I get it. I get where they're coming from. I get their whole trip. But don't, you know, make mistakes that we did in our decade. Oh, they're going to make the mistakes. Don't you worry about it. Of course they did. They already did. You know how it is. Somebody could have come to you in a time machine in 1982 and said, it's going to go like this, and you're going to do this, and don't do this mistake. Sure, sure. And you'll still do it. It's just the musician brain. That's right. And I'll tell you, but, you know, like Burl says, but, you know, I got to tell you, back to now, and actually, you know, I mean, I'd play with a lot of my guys again, but some is unnecessary. It would only put a negative in the positive. Like, when I'm out there playing, I want to have a good time. That's why I'm still out there. You know, it's not necessarily for the buck. It's great, but, you know, stop giving, you know, I won't do it. You know, I love kicking back and feeding deers and chasing, you know, doing whatever I do. And, but I'm always writing and working and whatever. So, you know, but anyway, the bottom line is, is now when we go out, we have, I have a great time. And I love talking to the fans because they're so hardcore and sincere. I mean, you know, besides the tattoos, rat tattoos, their kids and clothes and presents, it's like a whole new world again. You know, it's exciting and dangerous and colorful again. Kinda, you know, because some of us are out there embracing it. Like, yeah, I'll wear the same shit I wore back then, why not? That's why you did it then. And, you know, somebody made a complaint about, you know, musicians or said something about musicians. And I kind of went, you know, what are they supposed to look like? If you're in a band 40 years ago, why can't you at least have some kind of that character now? Yeah. What do you need to... I don't get it. I still love, you know, dressing up and looking like I want to do something out there. I think people get confused by the OGs, if you know what I mean. by that i do i do too you know i mean like if you're an og why would you change what you do or who you are because you're an og yeah yeah and i just you know i i think with me i have just progressed with the help of direction you know as a person and and you know besides getting sobered up and learning from mistakes but i'm still and i will still fight wars for the band i created you You know? It was an important, it's still important to me. It always will be. And so no matter, so that's why I really love, I mean, me and Warren are really taking this in like, man, it's 47 years later, dude. We can do this. Right. You know, we can have a great time. And that's what happened this year. So let's take this walk here for a second, because I'm curious. I'm repeating myself, but, So to me, if I'm you and I'm not you, but if I'm you and I'm looking at what's coming in early 90s with what is now commonly called grunge, you can't be thinking we're not that different than what's coming out. Right. Yeah, I didn't get it. Okay, good. Yeah. So how do you view that period now in hindsight? Because on one hand, you're trying to start. You did arcade. You did some records with arcade. Sure. And I did VD, which was Vicious Delight. Yeah. Have you ever heard that? Yeah, I did. It's like brutal. It's like, and I intended it to be the shortest hardcore songs I could do. Yeah. And just yell. And your voice fits right into that type of music. Yeah, that's more like grunge. But that's my point. Yeah, and I love it. So you're over here running this track, but of course, you know how the world works. It's like, yeah, well, you're the guy from Ramp. They don't like it, and it didn't work. You know, it worked for a bit with me and Freddie, with Arcade, Fred Corey. We had a great tour. we did stuff with you know bon jovi or whatever and then uh but the record did well and that was great songs and then we did the second one and it just got it started getting dark and that's when it went boom you know okay so so over here you're doing what you're doing right you're you're trying to do and i've been there you're going down that road you know and then you're watching all these artists blow up some of them are legends some are long forgotten and sure rightly so in my particular opinion, us being there. So we share some of that. But I'm saying, well, how do you do that period now? Because, like I said, people commonly do the thing, and it's kind of a lazy take, you know, grunge killed hair metal. I don't believe that. I mean, they call it... Well, it did because so many of the great bands of the hair metal world are still out there playing big gigs. Yeah, yeah. Well, and deservingly so, some of them. I mean, the copycats of them, what are you kidding me? Some of those bands are being played more now because of this hair metal tag than they ever were in the 80s. Kiss the ground, guys. Get paid. Well, there's that. Sirius has the hair metal channel, right? Right, right. And so, you know, I didn't struggle with that term. I went, you know, that's kind of funny. And then I started thinking about hair metal. But after Arcade, when I was going, oh, I'm pissed off. and a vicious light happened, you know, it was no different than what was happening. But I'm saying, how did you, sorry to ask again, but how did you view the 90s bands? Because some artists are bitter about it, some artists are like, whatever. No, and you know what? Their turn is happening now. Just like the 80s turn was, I'd say, the last five years had its moment, and now it's there. I think the same thing is happening now to the 90s. Very much so. Now, look at Korn, look at Limp Bizkit, look at Evanescence, look at so-and-so. They're doing huge shows. Will Hunt drums. I forgot to say it. But, so, and look how big they are now. People still want the good. Yeah. So you were cool with that musical scene at the time? Oh, yeah. 100%. Look at it That why it came off on me You know it dwindled you know it was put in my head to where I wrote these crazy Vicious Delight songs you know, like a dog and... That stuff's not on Spotify, though, or is it on streaming service? I don't know, I don't do Spotify. I don't... I was trying to find that stuff. I mean, I found it, but it was like, I had to dig around a bit. I'll get it to you. And actually, Bo Hill remixed Vicious Delight, and he was like what the because i go boat i put him in a really good studio yeah and i go i go do your thing with this do mix with this it's hardcore and he didn't know what to do it but he did try to buff it up and whatever and and it didn't work okay no no no and and that's what i knew wow so so in these years where rats sort of floating floundered floundered or float apart or whatever um did you maintain any personal relationships with anybody or was that thing you're kind of divorced and um well well with warren like i say um it was just a while uh before that was inevitable that him and i would you know it happened before years and years apart, you know, not playing or whatever. Yeah. And, because he does this trip, I get it. But the other guys, I talked to Bobby quite often. And the other guy... I'm talking about, I'm sorry, but I'm talking about then, because you guys did reform. Sure. Did another album. I did, that's what I'm saying. I actually would run into war, and occasionally, on the downtime period, nothing was happening. There was wars, and this, and legal, and, you know. uh who who did was was part of the contention who owns the name or that stuff yeah yeah and it you know it's been back and forth back and forth and and and the outcome will you know inevitably happen you know with what partners are left and i don't dwell on it because it's like i say look we created this this music we created this entity when robin was out of the picture i knew it was done i went okay we can go out there and play and you know call it rat and some people get it not but it didn't work you know why do you think it didn't work well when you throw in different components with no disrespect to some of the musicians you know i mean uh one guy had a rat out there you know with all these different people they replaced me with somebody and went out and you know there's those weird like mid 90s where it's without you which is hard for me to and then i had to come in step in in 97 and put you know regrouped everybody put together a collage and said we're going to get things in order and tried it, and it wasn't going to work. And I say it because, you know, Robin was such a big part of directing this monster, you know. He really was. And besides being a heart and soul guy, he was really dedicated until he got lost, you know. And once it was done, once he was out, it was over. I mean, like I say, it was mutiny on the bounty, man. In your mind, when does he go from just your typical partying L.A. musician to he's like got a real... Detonator. Okay. The last album. So that's 90... 90, 91. Okay. Yeah, it was terrible. We should have never went on the road. The record was a mess. And, you know, you do what you can because you're ordered to, and that's the way it is. Yeah. And that's part of the business. I changed for myself because I released my own records. I do my own thing. I have my own distribution. But back then, it was like, whoa, man. And then the business really started changing. You know what I mean? That is true. Here you got all these channels. Here you got that. But then again, I found another direction of the business that I like. And that's like music for movies, TV, commercial, and that kind of stuff. and, you know, I love some, uh, still what, what's happening, you know, in the music business. That's something that I could give a shit about. You know, I love, and, and the touring part, you know, it is a blessing that war and I got back together because we forgot how important, uh, how important we were to each other. You know what I mean? Yeah, I get that. You go, Hey man, you, you, we're, we're buddies. Yeah. You know, uh. It is interesting when you've had those experiences with somebody, like it bonds you in a way like people, obviously we didn't go to war, but it's the, I call it the foxhole. Like you can never not have that with each other. That's right. Yeah. And, and look, you only live twice. So. Sounds like a rat, sounds like a rat song title. It might be. And, but, you know, when I say that, I mean, you know, a lot of, with me, I see things very differently with the business and my life. I separate the two. Yeah. I really do. Sometimes I don't know that dude that goes out there. Once I, you know, I don't even, put it this way, I don't do soundtracks. I want to walk right on stage to unpredictability. I don't want to see the stage. I don't want nothing. I just want to go out there and do what I used to do. Yeah. With that surprise, you know, that element. I don't like, you know, I like, I don't know what it is. I get it. I get it. You know, and then I have a great time. And then it's, man, I see people smiling and singing. You know, it's a trip, man. You kind of, you understand how trippy. Everything you say, I feel in here. Our business is so weird, you know, and then you get into the business business part that's it up because yeah you know it is a beautiful thing people like you for what you do and you're like well why well your song and this and that's like yeah man i meet people at airports and weirdest places and i go how do you even recognize me you know i got a dog tail up here looking like people go oh hey i still go wow it's cool, man. You know? Yeah. Embrace. I got a cool Warren story for you. Yes. So, uh, in 96, we released this big album and, and one of the band members ends up leaving. So I ended up coming out to LA in 97 making this depressing record called Adore. My mother- Oh, a solo record? No. My, my bass player later said it should have been a solo record. This is a different story. And she gave me her book. That girl? Oh, no, you're thinking of a different bass player. I've had a few. Oh. Okay. Well, you've had a few bass players too. Yeah, right. Anyway, the reason I'm telling you this is, so I was out here at Sunset Sound making this very depressing record. My mother had died. My mother had died, and I was going through a lot. You know, it's life stuff. And a buddy said, do you want to meet Warren Demartini from Rat? I was like, yeah. Yeah, why not? So I made friends with Warren, and he used to come visit me in the studio while I'm making this super depressing record. No. way and so he oh my god so i always have this love for warren because he was around during the making of this record and he would show up like an angel he would just kind of come in and just talk to me and we just hang out and talk guitar whoa and i was such a fan of you and him and and it was like it was like he was this angel who just show up on the right day at the right time and just kind of kind of helped me through this really difficult period of my life what a trip yeah i'm gonna tell him that i talked i'm gonna talk yes please send him my love because it's one of those things where it's like you know there's the public story of the record but the private story of the record is warren is intertwined into that record wow and i to this day i still regret that i didn't ask him to play on it oh no way yeah and it wasn't because i didn't want him to play and it just was one of those things it just didn't kind of work out i right maybe i felt weird just asking him like i didn't want him to feel we weren't friends first and all i wanted was something out of him and but to this day i almost i wish he'd played on it oh that would have been crazy well that's interesting yeah yeah you know i gotta tell you i i love so many musicians that are out there because i know most of the real guys that are still out there 40 something years later like a rudy sarzo or somebody who really respects what they have done and what they do and what they can do and smile about it because it only happens once you know what i mean and and it's fleeting and uh and then we deal with you know who likes who doesn't like and then me i could give you who likes because that was our motto back then yeah and that's why we're here we're here is because i want to play whether you like it or not you're gonna sing whatever i have to stop singing because i'm uh gonna be 70 yeah i forgot how old i am um so it's like what am i supposed to stop or what i can't wear cool clothes. Okay, two more things. Yeah. And thank you for indulging me. We all live in this world of like halls of fame and top 50 lists and best song and da-da-da-da. Yeah, yeah. How do you rate your band in the generation? I think it's always fair to start with the generation because it's one thing to take a band out of their generation and say, how do they match? But you would have responded differently in a different generation than you responded to the one you were in. 100%, which is the 80s. Sure. That generation. So where do you guys sit in that totem pole for you? The group rat, I would say they sit firmly in the psyche of that generation. You know, I don't know. That's a weird one. i think that we're you know that was a good band you know i don't know how how to how to put that that's like you know uh how do i see rat well we did it you know i don't know we did what we were supposed to do but you know every generation has commercial like some artists are more commercial and they're sellouts but they have a lot of success yeah and you as a musician from the inside you know what they're doing and why they're doing it yeah we would never trade that for that no right okay so never did that's why that's why rat never went like like that's kind of what i'm asking it was destined to have like somebody said uh uh something about zeppelin like they were only supposed to be here for those years for those they weren't even together eight years something like that right well they started i think 68 and and bonham unfortunately passed away when he was a 1980 so 12 years yeah so the way i see it is that always comes into my mind with us like you know we're only supposed to make we were only supposed to do it for that long sure you know that was supposed to be our moment and it was and and it still goes on because it was you hit a nerve yeah and it's a blessing hey round and round forever i mean maybe maybe a different way to ask you the question uh from your generation rock rock bands who who who do you rate in in the in sort of top three to five who who are the people that you go i still respect the game definitely well oh who's in the game no no like a zeppelin but don't you know i'm talking about i'm talking about your generation your your your age range yeah the groups that came out uh what are the ones that you still go okay they did it right or i respect you know they did it right and some bands had to pull out but i mean there were a lot of you know like kicks uh you know motley uh you know uh let's see My job, you got WASP, you still got guys trying, not trying, you still have a lot of us out there trying to do it. Like I say, in one manner or form, for whatever reason, their reason is to do it. Uh, but enjoying it should be the priority, because, you know, it just trips me out. It really does. It's like, 40 years later, it's almost a surreal thing. thing like as you know that well you're going all four members of motley crew are still alive start there uh yeah and you know another thing is is i trip on is uh they better knock on some kind of wood because most successful bands lose somebody you know uh but you know there's a lot great bands but they're not the bands i see anymore so put it this way soon enough we'll be delivering something you know but the sunset strip experience is is something that we're working on that's going to be cool because soon enough dude you're going to have if it's not happening now the only thing out there that's going to represent the 80s is tribute bands i see you know what i me. It's already happening. You know, you got tribute bands for days. And why? Because it could be cheaper than the real guys or... Ah, great songs, I think. Yeah, great songs. I think it's all too much great songs. Okay, last bit. Because I didn't know this, that you'd been through this intense health thing. Can you talk about that? uh yeah yeah you know you use and abuse you know and as i did as we did and yeah i had a bout with cancer liver cancer uh it's kind of freaked kind of up because you know when somebody goes hey you might want to get your things in order okay look i've been run over i've been i've had broken bones rods wires this that i'm i am the bionic man no knees kneecap you know fake knees but but when that happened i just uh that was it anyway long story short if it wasn't for christy keeping me in order and us creating a beautiful support system for me and business we take care of business you know uh so it's besides having her support we have business and that keeps me direct drive you know i see in place i don't think about you know but yeah i went in and had surgeries and and this and that and thank god that it's from you Yeah. If they give you a, uh, cause my mother had liver cancer. That's why it particularly struck me when my mother had liver cancer in 95, somewhere on there, they said her chance of survival was 5% or under. I know it's gotten better. How long does she live after? Six months after diagnosis. Oh, okay. Yeah. And, and that's like my mom, she had, uh, liver cancer too, and they couldn't operate cause it was so close to a main. Otherwise she would have. survived. I was lucky. It wasn't near anything weird. And they just went in and just took out burn, freeze, whatever the they do. But anyway, uh, yeah. And so I'm very lucky and, and don't take that, uh, anything for granted. What I do now is just try to enjoy what you see me in a great place. Yeah. Yeah. And I love, you know, it's, it's a trip because I, I really do like playing. that's you know you get into it because you like it you write because yeah i don't know where it comes from i just you know you just write you like great songs you know so it's like i can relate to people when i go wow man that guy's a good writer you know i'd love to write with them or write with them because life's short man and you know what we did whether we did it or not made it or not or should have been bigger, or should be doing stadium tours. It doesn't mean sh** to me. You know, if it's supposed to be, it'll be. Well, I'm sure we all somewhere in our brain think we should have been in a bigger band, but I think one of the reasons that your music endures so strongly is that it always had a root of musical integrity. Yeah. That even though you had a commercial focus, there's still like an edge to your... I hate that word. Oh, real. We were real. you know we were yeah you know we didn't you know we're gonna like put on these little car you're gonna do this and yeah you know it was if i have any agenda talking to you today that's that that i would want to come through the camera lens is that for people who think they know your music they need to go back and listen one more time and really understand why your band is so highly regarded with musicians because it's a cool band and wrote great songs thank you and we tried you No, I can literally say all of us wrote, you know, but then when it got to be like, we've got to write, we've got to write, because there's publishing, we've got to write. Gosh. Why does that sound so familiar? Somebody's going, here's a million bucks. Why does that sound so familiar? Right? And then it turns different, and then, you know, all those guys who do all the writing, you know, all of a sudden we're bad men. Well, write songs, dude. You know, I don't know what the fuck. but, but... Well, I always think of George Harrison, right? Imagine if he's writing and it's like, he's trying to outright John and Paul. But look at the songs he wrote. I saw something on him recently and that was exactly his subject. And he was just smiling, talking about it, like, well, at least I got a song or two in there. Yeah. You know? To imagine competing against those guys in their program. Oh, God, God, you know. But he did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would always say, sorry, but I would always say to my bandmates because I wrote most of the songs for the band would be like, just write a better song than me. Sure. Put me in a position to turn down a better song. Right. And the thing is, you know, as you know, when you write a song, you don't know if it's going to be a hit. Nobody can tell. You don't sit there and go, it's going to be a hit. Well, let me tell you now, hey, AI, write me a hit song that sounds like blah, blah, blah. So you know where the business is going. You know. Okay. Let's stop here because we have to. Yes. But one question for you, because I am a fan. Yes, sir. Tell me the great rat song that I probably missed. Oh. Like, you were sure it was a can't miss song. I was listening to your music today coming here to see you. A song called Reach for the Sky. Okay. That we recorded for Out of the Cellar. that I found and actually re-released on the 40th anniversary out of the cellar box set. That's what I was going to bring you. Oh, it was sort of a forgotten... Yeah, and I found it. Reach for the Sky. It's called Reach for the Sky. And you kick yourself because you didn't put it on the record. It should have been on Out of the Cellar, but I get it. It's a cowboy song, just like Wanted Man. Okay. So Bo was probably going, Hey, you got two cowboy songs here. We'll take Wanted Man. That's the only thing I can think of why I did it. Because it's a great song. I found it 40 years later. It's in that. And I'm going to get it to you. And it's a bitchin' single. And we made a cartoon video of the song, too, so you can look it up. Oh, great. Yeah, yeah. And that's just, you know, the shit I like to do. But that, because we played that song live in our set, you know, early on with, like, you got it, you think you're tough, reach for the sky, you know, back for more, before they were even an EP, you know, but why the song didn't make it out. But I got it out, and that's what I've been trying to do for the last 10 years. But yes, sir. Thank you. God bless you. Love you, man.