TEPE MURDERS: SURGEON EX-HUBBY POLTS BAIL BID, HOUSE FOR SALE

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The brutal double murders a man and wife, Spencer and Monique Tepe. Hey, Dr. McKee, did you think we forgot about what you did according to police? That's right. Michael McKee, the ex-husband, the surgeon, once married to Monique behind bars tonight, gnashing his teeth and switching his tail as he plots a bail bid. That's right. Dr. McKee wants to walk free over my cold dead body. This, as we go to air, the search warrant return has been released and we have learned what was seized inside the Tepe home. And speaking of, guess what? The Tepe home is up for sale? Really? Bye-bye, crime scene. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us. There's a body. There's a body. There's a body inside. Yeah. Spencer lives about 73 miles from work. So if you put the timeline together, he's what? Less than an hour late to work and someone's calling 911 for a wellness check. To me, that stands out. Let me get you on the line with the medic, okay? He appears dead. Dr. Michael McKee, the ex-husband that was seemingly obsessed with his ex-wife, Monique, he kept contacting her saying, you're still my wife. Yeah, him. How would you like to see that standing over your bed in the middle of the night? I know I wouldn't. This, as we are learning, Monique Tepe was shot multiple times at the beginning. Remember, we were told she was shot once in the chest. That's not true. She was shot multiple times, including in her face. But tonight, a lot happening in the Tepe double murder. Number one, Dr. McKee has been in court and he's set to be right back in court, planning his bail bid. But let's take a look at what happened at this most recent court appearance. Thank you, Your Honor. Diane Benashin on behalf of Mike McKee. Thank you. Your Honor, with respect to the allegations, we would acknowledge receipt, waive, reading, enter not guilty place to all counts contained therein. We would also waive bond at this time, although we certainly reserve the right to raise that at a later date. The plea of not guilty form has been executed and signed on behalf of my client. Thank you, Chancellor. I signed the not guilty plea. I'm signing the bond form indicating that bond has been waived. Anything further? Thank you. Thank you, Your Honor. Thank you. That from our friends at NBC4, Columbus. Straight out to an all-star panel joining us tonight to make sense of what we are learning. First of all, I've seen a lot of defendants in court. Again, I don't want to wake up with him standing over in my bed. Dr. Bethany Marshall joining us. We're now psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction. She's the author of Deal Breakers. And you can see her now on Bravo and Peacock and find her at drbethanymarshall.com. Dr. Bethany, talk about trying to humanize your client. Apparently, this guy needs a lot of work. Did you see him standing there? It looked like he wanted to just bite the neck out of his defense lawyer. Yes, it did, Nancy. He looks like he has a lot of contempt. Well, we know already he had contempt for the law, contempt for Monique and Spencer. The fact that he shot her in the face, I cannot get that out of my mind, but he wanted to destroy her beauty. And when you think about how he is in court, he really feels like he's above the law, Nancy. He always felt like he was above the law. Even where he had his surgical practice, often he didn't even show up for work. So when we think of sociopathy as a profound disorder, we think of lack of regard for the rules of society. And this is what we see in court, lack of regard for the rules of society. I'm trying to hear what you're saying. Guys, that's from our friends at WSYX. I'm trying to hear what you're saying, Bethany. But and I'm glad they did. The control room was showing him again in court. He looks like he is just barely like he's holding it in the anger. Let's just look at that. Look at, uh-uh. They've got to work with that before they take him to a jury trial. So straight up to Dave Mack, Crime Stories, Investigative Reporter. That was him in court. But did you hear what Dr. Bethany Marshall just said about his arrogance and his behavior in court? He was actually yawning during a book hand. Book hand, he was just so above it. Let's see if we can pull that up. This is Dr. Michael McKee at his book hand. I mean, the arrogance this guy has. Okay. Now, tell me, why is he all of a sudden coming right back into court, Dave Mack? Well, Nancy, the heading back into court is about getting out on bail. You know, the very first hearing with his attorney, they said, we're not going to seek bail at this time. But now they want to go back in there. They're going to push to get this man out of jail. And I don't know how that's going to play out, Nancy, but that's what they're going to do. They're going to try to get McKee out on bail. Well, what they're claiming is that they're coming into court for many, many legal reasons and they've hired a high profile lawyer. They are looking over search warrants. They are looking over media items, photo evidence. A lot is going to be happening in court. But I predict that you're right, Dave Mack. I think there will be a renewed push for him to walk free, but with two dead bodies and evidence of lying in wait, fat chance. This guy would be a threat to himself and to witnesses. Because remember, if you will recall, Joseph Scott Morgan joining us, forensics expert, professor of forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, star of a hit podcast series, Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, but more importantly, death investigator with over 10,000 death scenes of all natures. And you've only got five choices, natural, like a heart attack, accident, like a car accident, suicide, undetermined, and of course, homicide. Those are your only five choices. But he's also been an expert witness in many, many cases. Do you remember, Joseph Scott, he went on the run. He hid out after the murders. He took off. He went back over 400 miles, scraped the insignias off of his car, so it couldn't relate back to the crime scene, and hid out in plain sight. So if he ran once from the scene of a crime, he'll do it again. When you don't know a horse, Joseph Scott, look at his track record. Look at his track record indeed, Nancy. And why would you even consider cutting this guy loose? And here's one other thing, and we have to understand this. This guy is a surgeon. What does that mean? Well, if an individual is in fact a surgeon, that means that they might have disposable income. And what can you do with disposable income? You can bolt not just to another state, Nancy, but possibly across our borders into a place where he cannot be extradited. Why even take the chance? Nancy, this case, this case was a slaughter. Okay. When you think about it, we're talking about a double homicide with two small children in the house. This guy is somebody you have to keep your eye on, because if he'll do it once, there's a possibility he could do it again. And listen, not just the safety of our citizens, but also a lack of accountability. Why take that risk? Just got to look, look, look, look, look. Here it comes. Here comes the big old yawn. There you go. Just like Dr. Bethany helped me out. He's just so above it all. It's just so boring. He has to yawn and adjust his glasses. Really? He really is above it all, Nancy, in his own mind. Imagine having him as your surgeon and waking up and seeing that kind of face. Nancy, when I see him on the monitor, there is so much aggression in his demeanor. And I have to think that he is still obsessed with Monique, still upset that she remarried and that she had a beautiful life that he wanted to destroy. Nancy, men like this, if the love object gets away, they want to cut their arms and legs off. They want to box them in and they do not want them to have a good life. So his anger is extending even though he already killed her, Nancy. He's still enraged. I can see it on his face. It will be a cold day in HELL that I would let this guy out on bond. So guys, you're seeing video. Some of it has been from our friends at WSYX and thank you to WSYX for this. You're getting a tiny taste of what the jury will see when this finally goes to trial, providing that next week the judge doesn't give this guy bond and let him walk free, walk free straight to a private airport and take off. A lot happening in the case tonight. Number one, he's plotting a bond bid and that's coming up in a couple of days. Number two, in the last days, unsealed. What was obtained from the crime scene? Straight out to Dave Mack with Crime Stories. What do we know? Nancy, there were 29 pieces of evidence taken from the crime scene, but the warrant is not specific as to what we actually got in there. Looking at it, it just says 29 pieces of evidence. However, the filing does specify that investigators were able to document 15 latent fingerprints, another 395 photographs, and they gathered swabs and an additional 14 images. They've got potential blood and or DNA on those swabs, by the way. So nearly 400 photos, the evidence that we go back to Nancy, they're not specific as to what those items are. Dave, no offense, but do you believe that police are going to lay out a description for each photo for you? No, it's really none of our business. First of all, what is a return on a search warrant? In order to get a search warrant, the law enforcement officer must go to a judge, a magistrate, their on-call 24-7365. You can even do some of them over the phone. A lot of judges, I always had to go in front of the judge in camera, behind closed doors, state what I had, bring on a witness, put them under oath or her to say what the PC was before I could get a warrant. I like doing it old school because then there are no questions, but you can do it over the phone. That said, once you give the judge the PC, probably cause why you need to violate someone's privacy in their own home, their car, whatever you want to search. You've got to meet a threshold as to what you believe you're going to find. Once you get that signed, then you go in and you search. And even if you find things you did not enunciate in your PC warrant, the affidavit, if you see other evidence of the crime or anything relative to the crime, you can then seize it. Then you have to fill out a quote, return. What you are returning back to law enforcement headquarters with. What did you take? What's your return? That is what we're seeing now. Give me a quick recap again. What's on the return, Dave Mack? 29 pieces of evidence, Nancy. 395 new photographs and they did have cotton swab, they took swabs for DNA and blood looking at DNA, as you see right there on the screen. So a lot of information pulled from this search warrant. Okay. You are seeing the actual return. 29 pieces of evidence, latent prints, swabs. Okay. I'm very curious about the swabs. Straight out to Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, explain to me, we think of swabs as in the sense of buckle or buccal swabs, which is like a really long Q tip that you put in your mouth. Well, you don't do it. The law enforcement or the nurse or the doctor does it. And it's, um, and they rub it against your cheek and then they secure it and that gives DNA. That's what a lot of people think of as a swab. So in this case, we're talking about the teppy home in the last hours, the search warrant return has been released. And if you are in the system, if you are a court watch or a legal eagle, you know that you can tell where the investigation is by reading the return. What do they have to work with? Explain how you get a swab at a crime scene. We're talking about the teppy home. Think this way, two types of swabs, dry swabs, wet swabs. So what do you do? Let's talk about wet swabs first. Wet swabs is where you actually take, think about a Q tip. Okay. And it is protected. It's sealed when we get it out of the packaging. If you have a deposition of blood or some kind of other bodily fluid that's on scene, okay. And it is wet. That surface is wet. You literally take that swab and roll it, roll it across that wet area and retrieve it. Now you have to let it dry for a few seconds. Okay. Then you seal it and you would do this in multiple locations where you have wet deposition. Okay. Number two, we think about dry swabs. Well, what does that mean? Well, what we will do is at a scene where we suspect there could be DNA deposition. Think doorknob. Okay. Think windowsill. Think even bodies sometimes. If you think that someone has been touched, you take distilled water, you place it on the swab and you roll it over that area or make the press contact on it. You let that dry and you seal it up. What are we looking for? Well, we're looking for literally the molecule of life, that thing that can identify an individual that is not known to live in that environment. Now you have to eliminate the people that live there. But if you find unknown DNA sample in that environment, who's is it? Well, you create a profile and you compare it against who is in that environment. And this is key Nancy because this is very, very fragile. You have to be very careful when you're lifting these swabs. You can't have every single person in the world wandering through this environment. You have to be kitted out. You have to go in there and know what you're looking for or know where you think the probability of deposition is and retrieve it. Guys, you're seeing photos of Monique and Spencer in life before they were shot dead multiple times in their own beds in the dead of night with their two children, two little girls in the room next to them. Now, I wonder how many times Dr. Michael McKee looked at this video of their wedding. It was posted by a relative online and you know, McKee watched it over and over and over, staring at who he considered to still be his wife at her new wedding. And Dr. Bethany Marshall, he's getting the lay of the land. In this video, he can see all the entrances, all the exits, the layout of each. He doesn't have to look up the floor plans like we did. He can see them and see how he's going to get up to their bedroom. The bedrooms are up on the top floor. Nancy, he's also vengeful as he's watching these videos. He thinks, as you said, that Monique is still his wife and he's enraged that she has a beautiful life, a husband she loves. That is just not allowed in his mind. So he is getting the lay of the land. Nancy, he's looking at everything. He's looking at her dress and wondering where she got it. How much did it cost? Did she spend money that should have been his? Did she take money from the marriage? She's looking at Spencer. When did she meet Spencer? Did she meet Spencer when she was still with him? Is she cheating on him with Spencer? So it's a very deranged way of thinking as he's looking at these tapes. But yes, he's getting the lay of the land. And Nancy, he's thinking of all kinds of ways that he can hurt her, harm her. And so there's a lot of fantasies about the harm that he will inflict. You know, the crime scene must have been horrific. I'm going to go into this in full in just a moment with Corey Chalmers. He is a CEO and founder of Stereoclean Inc. It's a nationwide leader in crime scene cleaning. They also do trauma hoarding, biohazard, you name it. He's on A&E's Emmy nominated series, Hoarders. That's where I first found out about him. And he has helped families all over the country get through some of the worst moments of their lives. He's at CrimeCleaners.com. And before I get into the travesty that is selling this house, crime scenes are very, very upsetting and disturbing. I had to steal myself every time I went on a crime scene to analyze it. Because in my mind, Corey Chalmers, I was replaying the whole murder or whatever happened at the crime scene. And I really had to compartmentalize why I was there. I was not there to relive the crime scene. In my mind, I'll say that for opening and closing arguments. I was there to find evidence. Now, this was a double murder in the bedroom. What? You've seen that plenty of times. What would you expect to have found at that scene, Corey Chalmers? Obviously, they were shot multiple times each. So whenever you have, it depends on the caliber of the gun. But you're going to have entrance wounds, exit wounds. If they were in bed, you obviously have a very saturated mattress with a lot of blood. And then if anyone got up, most people don't just lay there and get shot unless they're killed right away. So I would imagine he probably shot him first. I don't know the details. Take out the threat. Make her watch. But then if she got up and ran, then you're going to have blood everywhere while one of them, both of them struggle for their life. So it could be a very graphic and horrific scene. And it's impossible not to try to imagine what happened. You don't want to. In fact, when I go clean a crime scene, I take all the pictures off the walls and show people smiling. And because it's just, it bothers me so much to see the smiling faces of what used to be and taken away by such brutal acts of some, you know, vengeful acts. Okay, hold on. I want to hear that again. Because in my world, when I was prosecuting homicides, it's very difficult to get in photos of the victims in life before the jury. It's almost always suppressed unless you can give the judge a valid reason why the jury should see the victims in life. Trust me, Corey Chalmers, I always had a reason because I would look over at the defendant sitting over there well groomed and a nice suit flanked by all of his defense attorneys looking fine. And it would infuriate me that the jury would never know the victim in life. But don't worry, I would find a legal valid reason for those photos to come in every time. So it was very important to me to look at the very photos that you can't stand to look at. So when you go into a crime scene, you take down the photos of the victims. That's very interesting. Yeah, I'll just lay them down. I don't hide them or move them. Because again, usually when we're there, the case is closed, the scene's been dismissed or released to the family. So anything left behind, I'm not typically disturbing evidence. But it isn't uncommon that after we leave, there is a new development and something happens. And it would be nice to come back and get evidence. But we literally have removed it all. This is the province of the crime scene investigators. And it's not like on TV, like CSI or law and order. It's not like that at all. It's much more upsetting. It's much more gory. It smells bad. It's sticky. It's like a blood cyclone hit in the middle of somebody's life. Like you would see personal items like a lady's makeup and all of her stuff sitting out where she was getting ready to go somewhere or in like the Jennifer Kessie case, you could see where she had laid out her clothes to wear to work that day. And the damp towel, but she never made it. In this scene, there may have been dishes still in the kitchen sink from dinner. There may have been the little girls clothes laid out for the next day. I mean, I'm just imagining. And in the middle of this seemingly wonderful, completely ordinary, amazing life, a blood cyclone. So you're hearing Corey Chalmers joining us from Stereoclean. And then think about what somebody like Joe Scott Morgan has to do to go in and pick through all of that and find what I'm looking for, probative evidence. From day one, I knew you were something special. I had quite a journey to get to you. Countless bad bumble dates, wrong relationships and waterfalls of tears. But it was worth every cringing second because it led me to you. Throughout all of this, I knew that God was guiding me to my person. And that when I met him, it would be the most magical thing ever. And boy, is that an understatement. I finally found my lobster and it honestly couldn't be a person with a more beautiful heart. I will love you forever and I'm so lucky to be in this time. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. He's laying next to his head off of his bed within this blood. You know, it's been speculated a couple of times that it's a professional hit. A professional is going to take the casings with him. Who would shoot these two dead? It doesn't sound like a pro to me. Tonight in the teppy double murder of mom and dad, Spencer and Manique Teppy, their two children and the dog now living with relatives we've confirmed. A couple of bombshells. Number one, Dr. Michael McKee headed right back to court. I can only imagine he'll make the same horrible impression that he did. Hey, while we're talking about it, can you show me his video of his court appearance? I mean, like a jury's going to let this guy walk. He's just like clenching his teeth and gnashing them. Oh, that's like, he looks like seriously like he wants to bite the throat out of the judge. That's from our friends at WSYX. Yeah, you're not getting Bond. Just let me tell you ahead of time. Just save the lawyer's bill. It's not happening. Number one, he's preparing for his bond hearing, which is coming up. This was his last appearance where he pled not guilty. Number two, we got our hands on the search warrant return, which is what we're telling you about right now. Why do we care? Because based on that evidence, the state will build its case. And number three, the home, the murder scene is up for sale. I don't like that. That said, let's go back to the warrant straight out to Joe Scott Morgan. Now we heard Dave Max state 29 pieces of evidence seized. How do you go into the scene that you just heard Corey Chalmers of Stereoclean describe how he can't stand it and has to take down the photos of the victims as he's cleaning up the blood cyclone that I call it? How do you go into a scene like that and find and it's so sterile the way it's written on the return? 29 pieces of evidence. And what do you think that evidence is? Well, I can tell you what the majority of it is Nancy. We'll do a little math here. Both of these victims Monique and Spencer have been shot a total of 16 times. She shot nine, he shot seven. So if you'll think about it, her shot her coup de grève, you will that fatal, that fatal bit is right here. If people will just take their index finger and it's it's fatal gunshot one that she is sustained Nancy. She had eight other gunshot wounds over the surface of her body. She's got a couple in her arms as well where I think she may have responded. So we don't know responded to pain. We don't know which one was first. But when you think about this, this is a semi automatic weapon, okay, that is being fired. And as it's being fired, the rounds are the spent rounds are being ejected. They're going to be all over the place. Because whoever did this, and obviously they have they have someone in mind here moves from one side of the bed. Monique is on the right side, all of her injuries on the right side. Spencer, all of his are on the left side. So the individual would have had to have kind of orbited the bed as he is shooting them and ejecting these round the ejection port of the weapon demonstrated right here. Okay, so it's being ejected out. That's just some of the evidence. So you're talking about 29 bits of evidence, at least 16 of those in my opinion, be spent brass that are laying all over the place. And this is difficult. When you think about how blood soaked this is, it what will happen is you can't predict where round or spent round is going to eject. Okay, it could land in the bed, it could land on the floor, can bounce off the wall, go back into the bed, hide behind drapes, you never know. So this is a very painstaking process. And you might find rounds that are literally kind of suspended in blood that's on the floor. So you have to examine the blood first, get photographs of that, and then retrieve the spent casing out of there. And this is all essential to trying to show the timeline of what happened. And also, what resources this person brought to bear that would wind up in such a horrific scene. I call it observing the abnormal in the context of the normal, because you see life there, and you see that life ended there. I find it amazing, just Scott, that you or someone like you can go into a scene such as Corey Chalmers just described for us, keep a level head and pick through all of that and find shell casings, bullets that have lodged in walls and furniture, hair, fibers, DNA. How would you go about finding DNA on surfaces? Would you need to use an ALS alternative light source? Yeah, potentially. When you think about this, nothing is off the table, Nancy, okay, in a scene like this. Because you know that that individual spent some time in the scene, okay, he approached this, this, this location, he made his way in here, and you have this kind of circumferential event that goes all the way around just in the bedroom alone. So all bets are off. You have to make sure that you cover it. So you're talking about alternative light sources. Yeah, absolutely, we would want to do that. We would want to take as many photographs, and did you see how many photographs that they took? It was in excess of 300. We don't know if they were using alternative light sourcing in there. If I were a betting man and I am, I think that that was probably that may have played into it. My big problem with this, Nancy, and I know you've already mentioned this, they don't have an opportunity to go back there, do they? They better have gotten at this time. Dear Momo, I feel so lucky to be up here with you today. You've grown to become my best friend. And together, we're surrounded by friends and family who are fortunate to be able to say the same. We're so lucky. Our support system is immense, and you embracing Larry, my crazy group of friends, and my loud family like you have means the world. I vow to support you, to believe in you, and to encourage you. I vow to provide for you. I vow to never stop loving you, and to always keep working on us. And lastly, I vow to do my best, to always keep making you laugh, because your smile is my favorite thing. This could be the killer. Is that the guy? If it is, it looks like he knows where he's going. I just said to Alex that they just like, we're very, very concerned because this is very out of character. And we can't get in touch with his wife, which is probably the more concerning thing. Not only is Manique Tepe's ex-husband, Dr. Michael McKee, plotting a bond bid from behind bars, he was just in court and made a really bad showing of it. He looked like he wanted to just destroy everyone. If looks could kill, everybody in the courtroom would be dead. The jury's not going to like that. Good luck softening him up. That happened, and it is happening in just a couple of days. He's coming into court, and we believe asking for a bond to walk free. Don't do it, judge. Number two, search warrant return unsealed. Number three, the Tepe home is up for sale. That's right. It's being listed by a local realtor. I don't think it's a good idea. Joe Scott Morgan, just think about it. Remember the Idaho crime scene, quadruple killing, Brian Koehberger, the case, the house was torn down. What if a jury had wanted to look at that, had wanted to see it? What about that? Gone like a vapor, Nancy, never to be seen again. There's no point of reference that you can go back to. And I can't, this is what escapes my reasoning here. You've had this example nationwide that we saw that everybody was up in arms about. Do you remember that? I know you do. And now we've got, again, this is being played out, right? Why would you take, what's the rush? What is the rush? The only thing I can think about is that there's some kind of monetary motivation to understand that, but it's problematic, Nancy. And then of course, in addition to Idaho, with the exact opposite response, we have Moselle. What is Moselle? It was the hunting lodge belonging to high profile lawyer Alex Murdog, convicted in the murder of his wife, Maggie and son, Paul. That's the interior. Take a look. And that was not put on the market at the time. It was not destroyed. And the jury went to see the scene and they came back, rightfully, with a guilty verdict. Okay? That's the Alex Murdog case. Then you've got, dare I speak it, my old co-anchor, Johnny Cochran, who did a complete makeover of double killer, Orinthal James Simpson's batch pad. He basically went in there, took down all the Playboy bunny photos and put up inspiring photos. You're seeing crime scene photos now. These photos were a sharp dichotomy to the home of O.J. Simpson. The jury viewed after Johnny Cochran's home makeover, the jury found not guilty after seeing the completely redone interior of O.J. Simpson's home. And then of course, you've got Joe Scott, you and I are very closely connected to this case, the case of Ellen Greenberg, where the entire scene was actually cleaned up by a professional cleaner like Corey Chalmers, totally destroying the murder scene. Remember that, Joe Scott? Yeah, how could I ever forget it? We actually recreated that at Jacksonville State. And the reality is this, Nancy, it's again, I use the analogy, it's like a vapor, it's gone. You cannot go back and grasp that again. You know, another case comes to mind, the Parkland shooting. They locked that thing down for years, Nancy. What's the rush? Why do you have to essentially go through, wipe everything out? And I know what people are thinking. Well, you should have documented it in the first place. You never know what's going to happen in court. I defer to you. How many times have you had to take a jury out to a scene, just to refresh their memory or get them context? And you're really, really taking a risk with this, in my opinion, Nancy. Agreed. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Straight out to Corey Chalmers joining us tonight, special guest. He is the CEO founder of Stara Clean, a nationwide leader in crime scene cleanup. He deals with biohazards, trauma, hoarding, extreme services for over 30 years. And he is a star on A&E's hoarders. He's at CrimeCleaners.com. Corey, I want to hear why it's irreversible. There is no evidence left. Once somebody like you and your team is brought in to clean a murder scene, much less a double murder scene. What I'm really interested in this case is the bedroom and what evidence is now destroyed because an expert cleaner, like you, has come in. Let's see the shots as Corey explains what he does. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our job is to not only make the traces of the crime disappear, but to make the danger disappear. So to do that, we not only have to make the visible blood gone, but we also have to disinfect, use a bunch of chemicals that even if there was something left, we would alter that, you know, with so much chemical that it probably wouldn't be admissible in court anyway, plus chain of custody is ruined by the time. Okay, what chemical? So like we use what we call an illuminator, which is a hydrohydrium proxide based illuminator. What that does is it makes any dried blood on dark surfaces turn bright white so that we can see it anywhere that there's something saturated with blood, like a mattress, carpeting, we literally cut it out and remove it. So anything that's absorbed blood gets removed, placed into biohazard bins, sent off to be either autoclaved and incinerated. Now, here's something that's really interesting we don't see very often, is what does the doctor have access to biohazard bins? So even his own bloody clothing shoes, you can't get out of a crime scene where you just shot some people 16 times and not have blood on you. He has an easy way to get rid of the evidence. It goes into a biohazard bin, his office gets collected and it goes and gets incinerated or autoclave never to be seen again. So even his own evidence is destroyed at this point. So let me understand, Corey Chalmers. First of all, you have to suit up. I guess you put on rubber boots like hazmat, get completely covered. You go in, you typically bring a team of cleaners with you, and what's the first thing you do when you walk in? We need to assess the situation and just see exactly where the blood is and what's involved. Once we know that, then we go to our vans, get all the supplies we need, set up a containment zone right outside the affected area, and we just start working our way in, removing everything that we see that we could remove that's porous, or if it's hard, not porous, we start cleaning it, disinfecting it. When we're done, we'll even use like ATP adenosine triphosphate monitors to make sure that there's no sort of organic materials on that surface. So we've cleaned it. We even have other chemicals that extract blood out of stuff. If, let's say a client says, I don't want you to remove the subfloor of the plywood, we can actually use this chemical and it will suck it out like a sponge, probably not 100%, but most of the evidence is going to be absolutely gone. And I think like we talked about earlier, walking into a scene like that, especially one that's so brutal, so graphic for a jury to be able to go in and see something like that versus after we've ripped it all out and it's been rebuilt, there's no purpose to that. It won't serve any purpose in a trial, but seeing the scene and piecing it all together, the way that we see it, I was a paramedic in a firefighter for 21 years too, so we would go into those same scenes and it's horrific. And so it absolutely helps the defense to get rid of every bit of evidence like that. I'm looking at the floors and the bedrooms are done in shades of black, white, neutral, gray carpet. Do you rip up the carpet or just clean the carpet? Absolutely, we remove it because that blood most likely goes through the carpet, into the padding, into the subfloor, so we remove layer after layer after layer until it's completely dry and nothing is visible. Well, Joe Scott, there you go. They take the carpet and they incinerate it. It's not like they rip up the carpet and the crime lab comes and goes, hey, I'll take that. They incinerate it. All that evidence gone. And if you look at the photos that we've looked at on the realtor site, these are on Zillow and on the local realtor site, you can see even the bedding. I'm sure the bedding was incinerated as well. I mean, all that evidence gone. Nancy in many cases we take the mattress, we take all the bed clothing, comforter sheets, pillows. My concern here is did they get everything because someone else is now living in the dwelling or in cases like out in Idaho where the place is completely gone? That's probable. At least in Idaho, they did take the mattresses. You know, another thing I'm looking at, Corey Chalmers is joining us. You can see his program on A&E and he is founder of Stara Clean, Nationwide Crime Scene Cleaner. For instance, I bet you anything that he went into the bathroom of the master bedroom. Hold on, I need a shrink. You know he did, right, Bethany? You know after he shot them, he like looked around in the home, including the bathroom that adjoins that master bedroom. All that evidence is gone. What in the hell would he be doing in there? You know, Nancy, these crime scenes, each cleanup tells a story. I once treated a patient who did crime scene cleanup and he actually cleaned Jeffrey Dahmer's place and he said that the mattress was so blood soaked that the blood formed stalactites under the bed. In other words, it was dripping through the mattress and then hardened into like icicle type formations. This patient was so traumatized by doing this crime scene cleanup that he became drug addicted. So I don't think there's a kind of trauma at looking at these scenes and the story this one might tell is the surgeon coming in, looking through her drawers, seeing what kind of lingerie she wears, seeing what kind of perfume she used, you know walking through the house and kind of imagining the life she lived and reveling in the fact that he has now destroyed it, completely dismantled it, taken it apart, taken it down to the studs, nothing left. You know, Corey Chalmers, I was, as Dr. Bethany was talking, I was just browsing through all the 56 photos of the home and something you said really struck a chord. I was looking at the stairway coming down from the upstairs bedroom to the downstairs and you can see the downstairs in their wedding video because they got married there at this home. They were married and murdered in the same home, Corey. But when I was looking at those stairs, I was imagining the two little girls running downstairs on Christmas morning or coming downstairs for breakfast before they went to school or play school and all the happy memories in this home and now it's just a crime scene. Does that ever get to you? It does to me. I mean, I try not to. It's just, it's my job and again, being a firefighter and a paramedic and pronouncing people deceased over decades, you kind of get used to that. But of course, everyone says kids bother you, but the family bothers me. When you have, you know, all these parents are gone now, they're, you know, either deceased and the ex is going to be in jail. This family is broken and they will be forever. And maybe these kids were young enough to not have, you know, a huge memory of their parents, but it's a void. And now someone else is going to be raising them differently. They'll never have the same upbringing they would have with their own parents. If you know or think you know anything about the brutal murders of Monique and Spencer Tepe, please dial 614-645-2228. It could be before, during, or after the fact. 614-645-2228. If you wish to remain anonymous, 614-4618477. This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.