It's the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. trash talk chat. You also get an ad-free version of your favorite Locked On show and a whole lot more. You can check it out by tapping the Everyday Your Club link in the show notes. Brian Gutekind offered support for Josh Jacobs being with the Packers in 2026, but how much longer past that? Don't be surprised if running back comes up sooner in the Packers draft than you're thinking. you are locked on Packers your daily Green Bay Packers podcast part of the Locked On Podcast Network your team every day you are locked on Packers part of the Locked On Podcast Network your team every day I'm Peter Bukowski and I cover the Packers for The Leap a newsletter I would love for you to subscribe to subscribe to the podcast wherever you get podcasts iTunes, Spotify, Apple Podcasts Wherever you get podcasts, you'll find Google Podcasts. I guess iTunes and Apple Podcasts are the same thing if you really think about it. And I'm just showing my age with the iTunes thing. Every time I say it, there's a Zoomer somewhere going, okay, Grandpa, let's get you to bed. But we are here, the number one Packers podcast on the internet and the show for fans who know what happened. They want to know why and how. Thanks to everyone who makes Locked On Packers their first listen every day. We hope you like starting your day with us as much as we like starting our day with you here on the Lockdown Podcast Network, the number one sports podcast network. We're going to talk about the linebacker position because Brian Gutekinds did not exactly full-throated endorse the return of Koi Walker. So what does that mean for what the Packers want to do from here? And speaking of Brian Gutekinds, don't insult our intelligence with this special teams thing. It really is silly. We'll get to that. Let's start at running back where Gutekind said that Josh Jacobs is a great player and is going to play for the Packers in 2026. He was pretty unequivocal about it. And I frankly don't know where some of the like, oh, well, they should cut him and move on. Yeah, he's got, you know, $14 million cap number this year and a $10 million base salary, but the base salary actually makes this easy. His cap number has not gone up that much. It's 3 million, less than 3.5 million more than it was in 2025. And it's another 2 million next year. So it's not really that onerous for the Packers. Over the cap does this cool thing where they actually set the valuation for a player based on their production. Like what would this player be worth on the open market? They set his 2025 valuation at about $8 million. So you're paying a little bit more for that than you'd want. But I think the Packers are okay with that. if the Packers were to restructure Josh Jacobs and push that money into the future, push some of that money into the future, they can save four or $5 million and then eat dead money in the future because you're spreading out the guaranteed money already on the signing bonus. You're gonna have to, if you move on, eat some of that money, but it would not be a prohibitive amount. If you wanna save, let's say $4 million, you're going to have to eat $7 million next year when you cut him. If you do nothing with the contract you live with the $14.5 million cap hit which I think frankly they will unless they have to and then it's just the guaranteed money basically in the prorated signing bonus that's counting on the cap. You can move on for nothing. He had guaranteed salary in 2025 does not have any more guaranteed salary after that from the Packers which I think is another reason why you could potentially move on and not have a bunch of dead cap money. If you cut him before June 1st, you got $6 million, but you save $8 million in additional monies. I don't know if that's worth it, frankly, because they don't have anyone in house. And we talked about that. That's the biggest reason why I don't think he's going to go anywhere. But I would be surprised if he's on the team in 2027. his age 29 season the packers rarely get a full four years out of these contracts now they did not structure this contract the way they structure a lot of contracts especially with with big time free agents and backload it so it's like okay they're you're never going to get to that fourth year because that fourth year is a balloon year this is not a balloon fourth year um it you know the the base salaries are low early on because you want to keep those costs down and then you can make some decisions moving forward, but it's not so different in terms of the cap that I think this gets crazy. Have your eyes glazed over? We're talking so much about the money right now. I understand not the world's most entertaining thing to talk about with running backs. Get to the point. Get to the damn point. Here's the damn point. In 2020, the Packers needed a running back because Jamal Williams was headed to free agency. Aaron Jones was headed to free agency. They knew they were only going to pay one of those guys. And what did Brian Guttekens do? He used a second round pick on A.J. Dillon. A couple years later, with the understanding that Aaron Jones was going to be out the door, the Packers drafted Marshawn Lloyd. Now, look, that has not gone great, but that has been an injury problem. Even if they knew they were going to sign Josh Jacobs or they wanted to sign, Josh Jacobs comes first. You've already signed Josh Jacobs in this case. But when you go into the off season and you're planning for these things, you sign Josh Jacobs and you use a third round pick on Marshawn Lloyd. Now you had extra picks, but they wanted Marshawn Lloyd to be a real part of this team. They have decisions to make right now at running back, which again is another reason why I don't think Josh Jacobs is going anywhere, but you've got decisions to make in restricted free agency with Emmanuel Wilson and Chris Brooks. If those guys go, you don't have a backfield. And Brian Gutekinst, I think, has shown that at least in partnership with Matt LaFleur, and Matt LaFleur wants to run the dang ball, they prioritize running backs. Now, the problem for them is this is not a good running back class it's just not jeremiah love is an incredible player and after that the second best running back in this class might be might be his backup jadarian prince on the consensus board right now the nfl mock draft database consensus board so this is like pulling from rankings all over the internet and i understand it's the internet so you know Take that with a grain of salt, but four running backs in the top 100 right now. Four. Emmitt Johnson from Nebraska at 74 and Jonah Coleman from Washington at 78. Now, I think the two guys, the next two guys, Mike Washington Jr., the running back from Arkansas, and Nick Singleton, the running back from Penn State, are guys that they could be interested in. Jaden Ott from Oklahoma, another guy on the freaks list. there's a lot of running backs on the freak list every year Mike Washington Jr. though he gives some A.J. Dillon vibes in terms of he's six foot he almost 230 pounds he got some juice in the open field he can catch the ball he got some power He not an overwhelming running back but he solid And I think in the Packers system could really be a good player I don't think it's out of the question for the Packers to be going into this draft going, it would be nice to find the next franchise running back for the Green Bay Packers because it's not Marshawn Lloyd, at least as of right now. I don't know why you would count on him for that. and it's not Josh Jacobs probably after 2026. Best case scenario, just in terms of certainty is as soon as 2027, you have to start looking at it. Even if Josh Jacobs plays the last year of his career or last year of his contract. And are you okay with a team theoretically contending for Super Bowls to just ride with a rookie? Now you can't worry too much about what's happening in two years. But if you think, if you're the Packers and you think Josh Jacobs is not gonna be on this team in 2027, then I don't think it's crazy at all to look at this draft class and go, okay, well, there's only a handful of guys we're really going to like. And so if we have to do it in round three, I don't think it's going to happen in round two, frankly, but round three, round four, there's a little cluster of guys. That's where Katron Allen from Penn state, Nick Singleton from Penn state and Mike Washington jr. From running from Arkansas are currently kind of slotted. those are those are names to keep an eye on i think for the packers and they're they profile as those potential like you can be the number one in this offense kind of back even though they're there now the reason i'm bringing this up this week in particular i talked about this on radio is athleticism is paramount and i think mike washington jr is going to be someone who I mean just looks the part absolutely rocked up dude and he accelerates he's got speed to burn he's going to he's going to test explosively I think and that is is what you have to do spark score relative athletic score whatever weight adjusted speed scores you want to use they translate for running backs athleticism translates it is one of the biggest signifiers of future success in the NFL is those athletic traits. You have to be a super athlete because guess what? The wear and tear on your body, that stuff is only gonna go down. After that rookie year, second, third year, like by year three or four, you're starting to go, is he the same guy athletically? Just because of all the hits, of all the wear and tear on the body. And so you gotta be, number one, ready to come right in. And number two, your baseline athleticism starting point has to be way up here. Or it's just not going to work. Now, speaking of athleticism being way up here, Brian Gutekind did not exactly give us full assurances that Quay Walker is going to be back on this team. We'll talk about that next on Locked on Packers. Workspace chaos, deadlines stacking up, inbox overflowing, and the one position you have to fill still sitting open. When the pressure's on and you need the right hire, this is a job for sponsored jobs. Indeed Sponsored Jobs helps you reach the people who actually fit what you're looking for. Skills, experience, location. So you're not just hoping the right candidates stumble across your posts. 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You must be an active subscriber to receive that free dessert. the offseason doesn't exist for the everyday or club we're in there every day talking chatting figuring it out solving life's great mysteries join the group chat on our on our discord server plus get every episode of the show ad free head to locked on packers.supercast.com or hit the link in the show notes for more when brian udekin's last offseason was asked about quay walker and contracts and options and all those things, he was pretty unequivocal that they want both Devontae Wyatt and Quay Walker back and they're working on those deals. But they didn't pick up the fifth-year option for Quay Walker. He's going into free agency now. And when Brian Udekinst was asked about Quay in front of Packers media, he was a little wishy-washy about it. Yeah, we'd love to have him back, but we also feel like the guys we have can slide in and take care of it. And then later, when he was asked about positions where you might need a little bit of competition, little wishy-washy, doesn't want to tip his hand, of course, and doesn't want to say anything negative about guys already on the team, but then brings up corner and linebacker as places where they could get some help. now what does that mean draft does that mean free agency of course we're gonna have to wait and see but one thing that I think is generally true is you can find linebackers in free agency that can help you for relatively cheap you do not have to pay a premium in free agency for linebackers and that's just that's been true forever and that that doesn't mean you're gonna necessarily get a great player, but you can find guys that are in that, you know, reasonable range, that five to $10 million range who can just come in and start for you. And like, I would much rather do that. As you go down the list and some of these guys are going to get some big money, but I look at someone like Quincy Williams and and the projected AP APY of someone like that that was a guy who at one point in his career looked like a really promising young linebacker and the defense in New York had just fallen off a cliff post big Bob Sala and so that would be someone that I would that I would be interested in in trying to take a chance on where you could get some like you can find some even some younger players at the position the Packers remember they like to get those 26 27 year old guys well Kenneth Murray can't play so sorry that's not that's not really a guy you want to be interested in and Devin Lloyd is going to get too much money for the Packers to really be in that mix but Quincy Williams is 29 Devin Bush projected to get in that million or million range is 27 A former high pick didn quite pan out for him but he you know he shaken off that burden of being a high pick and become a solid player The one that's interesting to me, if you liked Quay Walker, understanding there were injury questions there. The best linebacker on that Georgia team was N'Gobi Dean. N'Gobi Dean did not reach his full potential in Philadelphia because of injuries, because of, you know, issues there. But if you think Edron Cooper can play the mic, how about a run and chase linebacker like N'Kobe Dean to play the Edron Cooper role? N'Kobe Dean's still only 25 years old. In fact, he is about six months younger than Quay Walker. They were in the same draft class. They're both very young players. They're the youngest players in this free agent class. So could you for cheaper? Now, if the costs were the same, which one would you rather have? If you're the Packers, you probably would rather have the certainty. And Spotrak is projecting that that APY, the annual value is about the same. If I'm the Packers, I've seen all I need to see on Quay Walker. And I think they are telling us that they have to. Because if they think that the room is good enough, but also that they need to add some competition to that room, then they don't. They don't think that room is good enough. Now, there are other players further down the list. If you want to just like improve the run defense and then play a bunch of dimes. Someone like Leo Chanel, not just because he went to Wisconsin. Don't do that. He is a downhill run defending player. Blitzer player if you want him to be. Put him next to Edron Cooper on early downs if you're going to play some base and then take him off the field and play a bunch of big dime and big nickel and don't worry about it. Don't worry about his ability to move in space. He's only projected to get $4 million. That is a deal I would do 10 times out of 10. How about Matt Milano, who's going to be 31, projected to get $4.5 million, and he played for Bobby Babich? What about someone like that? Now, I understand he's lost a step. but like this is a guy who has played in a lot of big games has made a lot of big plays and I would really like like there is not the same juice there the same burst the same power but he's still a really smart player and for someone to be able to come in and just like fit in right away with what you know you want and to get some veterans on this team some hungry veterans that is one thing that I look at all the time Can you get some hungry veteran players in there? Guys like Julius Peppers. I know Milano's not the same level of player, but some hungry guys who want that Super Bowl, who have been close and come up short over and over like Matt Milano has. And give you something, some edge that you didn't have before. I think that's worth exploring. I really do. What about someone like Jack Sanborn, who again is only 25 years old? Not just because he's a former Packer. I've always really liked him. He was a former Chicago Bear then went to Dallas to play in the Matty Reflews defense. But if he's only gonna cost $2 million, what is the harm? What is the harm? I don't see the harm. so like there are options in free agency that I like for the Packers and then this is a good linebacker class not not you know superstars at the top necessarily though Arbel Reese whether he's gonna he's probably gonna play along the edge in the NFL preferably for a 3-4 team where he can drop sometimes there is that sort of Jalen Walker Micah Parsons-esque archetype for him Sonny Stiles also I guess there is more Off-ball linebacker juice At the top than I'm giving it credit for But this is a good Linebacker class The Packers could get A really good player In the third round In the fourth round In the fifth round But I think this is Again back to the question That we raised the other day Do you think Adrian Cooper Can play the mic? Do you think he can Call this defense? Do you think he can be The lone linebacker in dime? And if not then you need to find that guy. And I mentioned running back could be something that they target early. Linebacker could be something that they target early especially if they go out and they sign a defensive tackle or two. If you go out and you hit on DJ Reader, you hit on Andrew Billings, you get one of those guys and you feel like you can add a Trayvon Diggs, a Greg Newsome, a Rick Wollin, someone in that middle class of corners to come in here and be competitive, then you don't have to press. Then you don't have to rush. And that is what Brian Gutekinds traditionally has liked to do. It's what he did last year. And that, you know, gave him the flexibility to get a little crazy and make some of the sexy moves with the receivers. So I look at this linebacker free agent group and I go, there are definitely players here that you can get for much cheaper than you're going to pay for. Like if you can get Matt Milano or Quay Walker and Matt Milano's $4 million and Quay Walker's $8. I'd rather have Matt Milano, not just because he's a name. And then you can still draft someone because Matt Milano's probably only going to play a year, two years, chase a title and move on. It's just, it's an intriguing opportunity here for the Packers. Now, usually backup linebackers, if they're going to draft somebody, they're going to have to play special teams. And Brian Gutekinst offered one of the most ham-fisted cope takes I have heard from a GM. And there's no way he possibly believes it. But we have to talk about it because it is preposterous. And it's so preposterous. Even more preposterous that some people are buying it and repeating it like, oh, good point. I hadn't thought of that. No, it's ridiculous. And I want to talk about it. Next. Ever wanted to experience the NBA finals live and in person? 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Brian Gutekinst, when he was asked about Rich Passaccia and he said, oh, you know, we didn't know and we were, you know, he's so well liked in the building and all of that. Whether you believe that or not is, that's between you and your God. But what Gutekinst had the temerity to say, the audacity to say, the unmitigated goal to say was that what he liked about it, about Rich Passaccia leaving the team a month after all the coaches had been hired was that Matt LaFleur doesn have to rush to make a hire That oh well if he have stepped down in January maybe we wouldn't have got to interview all the guys that we wanted to interview because we would have felt obligated to make a hire. You mean like not getting to interview anybody that you'd actually want to hire? Like any of the best candidates are now employed. You are not getting the best candidates. period. We know that you don't have to lie. Like it's just, it's such a stupid lie too. And again, I cannot believe I am seeing media people there repeat this. Like it is like it, it should, what are you talking about? Like, I understand you can cite the quote. He said that, but you have to push back. We cannot just let something like that go and say, oh yeah, whoa. He's right. He's all off season to make a special teams hire now. That seems good. What? What are you talking about? The best guys have all been hired. Now that doesn't mean there are no good candidates out there. And that doesn't mean Matt LaFleur can't still go find an upgrade over Rich Passaccia. That's the important part. And that's really all that matters. But you did not put together the best candidate pool. You just didn't. And so it's okay to say, yeah, you know, it's the kind of thing where if it was going to happen, you would have liked to have had it happen sooner. So we would have been able to get some, some different interviews in. Now I get, I understand you can't actually admit that, but you go say, yeah, you know, I, I trust Matt to, to put together, you know, the, the best set of interviews that he can put together at this point. And, you know, we'll find the best coach for the Green Bay Packers. Not, well, actually, I think this is a good thing in some ways. No. Being able to interview a vastly inferior set of candidates. But because you can take your time doing it, it's somehow a good thing. I mean, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? it's like going to the worst restaurant in town and going, you know what I love about this place? You know what I love about this place is there's no one ever here. My food comes fast. Sure, it sucks, but at least it comes fast. The waitstaff's friendly. No one's over on their phone loudly. No one's got their kids running around under my table. by the way, I have two kids. Don't get mad. The music's not too loud. The lighting's not too low. The parking's not too bad. I can just come here anytime I want, anytime a day, and I get my food. It's great. No, it's not. It sucks. It sucks. And you don't have to, you don't have to insult our intelligence with this. You really don't. you really, really don't. And I, you know, to me, Brian Gutekens has done a good enough job to be above stuff like this. Like, don't do this. You're a good GM. You're a good GM. You just made the Micah Parsons trade. A great trade. You did the thing that everyone said you wouldn't do. And you took a first round receiver. And he looks like a really good player. And you drafted Jordan Love. and you built this really good team and you signed Micah Parsons or excuse me, you signed Xavier McKinney, you signed Josh Jacobs. You've brought in some really good players over the years. You've built multiple Super Bowl contending teams and then you rebuilt them. Don't, don't do this. This is stupidity. And it's either stupidity or it's arrogance. Just like, well, I'll just, I'll just say this thing and they'll believe me. Come on. Come on. What are we doing here? This is, it is, it is nonsense. The Packers are in a bad situation, regardless of how it happened, regardless of whether or not, you know, he jumped off the cliff or he was pushed. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Not at this point because the Packers are now standing there going, well, I guess we I guess we need a new special teams coach. And they're looking around and all the tourists have gone. There's no one else there. I butchered that metaphor, but you understand what I'm saying here. They're stuck holding the bag on this. Glad you took your dang sweet time, Rich, to figure out what's going on. You screwed the Packers special teams again. And maybe it was intentional. I've seen that take, like not intentional, intentional, but just like, hey, you know, I'm sick of them not giving me everything I need, which is, oh my God. Speaking of the temerity, just utterly ridiculous. If Rich Basaccia feels like he has not been treated fairly in Green Bay, give me, I almost reached for the button. Give me a break. Give me a break, Rich. if that is your real name, if that is what you really believe, that you're not given all the tools and so you're just out, my God, that would just be, in fact, you know what? That would be perfect. That would be perfect because it is just like an extenuation of it's somebody else's fault. Oh, well, I didn't have my guys. Oh, well, here's Keyshawn Nixon and Dallin Leavitt and Tariq Carpenter and Andres Carlson and all these guys. We drafted them for you, coach. Fix it. No. Well, I need the starters. Okay, here they are. Here they are. Special teams mistake after special teams mistake. Oh, well, what I really need was all the starting offensive linemen to be on field goal block. Or we're going to get every field goal kick blocked in a big spot. Nah, man. You got to go. You got to go. You got to go. And, you know, I'll say it. He left on his own volition. Okay. I'm sure he did. Good riddance. If that's how he feels, that he was not given a fair shake, if he's leaving because the Packers did not support him, good riddance because that is preposterous. That is preposterous. Get a grip. All right. Sorry. That took a turn. That took a dark turn. I don't know how we got there. But I appreciate you being here every day as part of our Locked On Packers audience. As we move through the combine here, it seems like the combine started like a week ago and we have seen nothing. Like guys are here talking, but we've seen nothing. We know nothing. We hear nothing. We see nothing. It's just been a lot of nonsense so far, but I promise guys will actually start running soon and we'll have stuff to talk about. Thanks for tuning into Locked On Packers. Make sure you subscribe and follow the podcast to get all the latest episodes of Course. 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