‘Mamma Mia!’ Meets ‘The Strangers'! It’s a Movie Swap!

I'm Sean Fennessey. I'm Amanda Dobbin. And this is the Big Picture A Conversation Show about you decide and we watch. We put you all to the test with the first ever Listener's Choice episode. Listeners were given four options. Amanda, do you want to read those options? I'd love to. Number one, we'll go see Melania so you don't have to. Number two, a 2008 movie swap, Mamma Mia vs. The Strangers. Number three, the movie theater snack taste test. And number four, a 2025 catch-up, we watched Demon Slayer, Kemetsu no Yaiba, Infinity Castle, and Gabby's Dollhouse. Gratefully, you all chose option two, and we will have that movie swap right after this. This episode of The Big Picture is presented by State Farm. You know those friends who show up for whatever you're into? The ones who'll debate which superhero universe is better or binge true crime documentaries with you at 3 in the morning? Those friends are gold. State Farm is like that, helping you figure out the coverage that actually fits. Car, home, life, whatever you need, they've got your back. And if you want a hand, a local agent is just a tap away on their award-winning app. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Okay, first of all, how are you feeling? You didn't have to watch Demon Slayer. Yes, and I didn't have to watch Melania. I think Demon Slayer obviously would have been preferable to Melania. Will you ever see Melania? What if there's some sort of project that you want to do about our first lady, you know, some point in time? I don't see that in my cards. OK, you know, I see like being as old as I am has mostly downsides, but I will just arrange my life so that I never have to see that movie. And I think I can do it. Yeah, I'm very pleased with the listeners. I'm very I appreciate that they were thinking of our well-being, that they were thinking of the state of our political climate. and what they don't want in their movie podcast. I respect it. I thank them. Before we get into this flop, though, which, you know, much anticipated, because Mamma Mia, I think, is on that short list of movies that I keep saying. I've never seen this on this show, and I finally did see it, so I'm excited to talk with you about it. And The Strangers, which came out in the same year. Yes. And I'll argue has some things in common with Mamma Mia. For sure. Absolutely. About knowing thyself and what can't be known. So before we do that, this Sunday is the Super Bowl. Yeah. Now, the Super Bowl for me, obviously... Are we allowed to say that legally? Like, are we allowed to say the words the Super Bowl? Legally? Yeah, because isn't there all sorts of licensing stuff? The CIA is listening to the show right now. No, no, no. I mean, which is more powerful, the CIA or the NFL? I don't know. Honestly, they're in league together. So it's a really good question. We can't put the Super Bowl, I think, maybe in the title of our show. Now, we can put it in the title of our episode. but oh we can yes but the show well it's copyright so i was consuming a lot of local news yesterday while in the waiting room at the uh local mammogram center okay shout out you know listen thanks for sharing here we are it's important yep if you're if you're a woman of a certain walk us through the entire mammogram um well there's a mammogram and an ultrasound if you really want to get into it and i had to fight to i was like no no we have to do the ultrasound as well. This is, listen, America's healthcare system, also just A+. But the chyrons on the local news were just big game, and they were doing a lot of food for big game. And I get a lot of big game emails. So are we going to get reviewed for saying the words the Super Bowl? I believe you can say the words. Whether or not they can be printed. They're not going in the copy of the episode title or description. Or maybe they are. We'll check in with Jack after this. I bring it up for this reason. A couple of birdies in my ear this week that there's going to be some interesting movie related stuff during the Super Bowl. OK, that there might be some sneak peeks at some interesting and relevant new titles. I don't know if this is true. You hear these kinds of rumors all the time. The Super Bowl historically is a great launch pad for movie trailers. And there probably will be 25 minutes of conversation on Monday's episode about the trailers that we see. But I wanted to use this opportunity to platform where I'm at with the NFL. Okay. So you do think it is funded by the CIA? No. It is the 2020s version of Winds of Change. I'm not saying that. Are we sure? What I can confirm is that the New York Jets are a psyop that have been operated against me. And I am publicly announcing that after this year's NFL draft, I am taking a 12-month hiatus from the team. I won't be watching Jets games. I don't even know how much NFL I'm going to watch. I also really don't want to watch this Super Bowl because the New England Patriots are back in it. And I want to just sit it out. Now, I have a professional obligation to see trailers that are coming out. But do you think I could get away with just not watching the game and just seeing, you know, as soon as someone tweets, oh, here's the trailer for Avengers Doomsday or whatever it is that's going to be coming out. Fire it up and then not even engage with the game itself. I've never not watched the Super Bowl since I was five years old. I'm going to be honest. I keep waiting for you to invite me to your home to watch the Super Bowl because I'm already hosting an event that morning. So it's happy birthday, Knox. So I can't be hosting a Super Bowl party. So I've just been like, where else are we going to gather? Is everyone having a Super Bowl party without me? Maybe they are. This is illuminating. but even if you were to invite me to the home for the super bowl party um we wouldn't be able to watch the trailers because there's too much stuff going on so when we when we prepare for this episode where we engage with the movie content we watch it post you know facto on the internet like everybody well i re-watch it like nine or 12 times yeah all the trailers just so i can kind of get a real breakdown so yeah straighter out i think that you're going to be able to not watch any of the game will you watch the halftime show i will i'm interested yeah bad bunny obviously and it's been controversial or whatever but that that's stupid um i yeah i i love football i'm sharing this because this is a really complicated thing for me because um the team that i root for has ground me down so hard and this feels like a almost like pointless season that they have in front of them i can't recall a time where i'm like there's kind of no hope for what's coming in the next 12 months i'm gonna come back probably once they fire the head coach and rebuild the team and start again in 27. But it's painful to be watching everyone else just be happy. You know, I've gotten to watch, you know, our dear friend Chris and your husband Zach and Andy and, you know, all of our great friends who are Philadelphians celebrate Super Bowls, Chiefs fans celebrating Super Bowls. You know, 15-year drought for the playoffs for the Jets is like, just scoop me out. And I feel lost. And I don't want anybody else to be happy. So just to be clear, the update that you wanted to platform is your personal relationship to the NFL. That's right. Right, but me advocating for women to get mammograms is not welcome on the podcast. No, I don't reject that at all. Except after we're done recording, I will tell Jack to cut that out, but no one will know, so we can discuss it right here. Okay. No, no, I think this is a space for personal information as well as movie insights. I don't believe you. I know. I also do not believe you. Yeah, you've done this every year. Like, you've quit the Knicks 45 times? One time I quit the Knicks and it didn't take. And honestly, that turned out to be a good move coming back because things are going very well right now with the Knicks. And I'm very grateful. You don't quit the Mets, but you re-examine your relationship to the Mets. All the time. Every two weeks on this podcast. All the time. I'm feeling pretty good about the Mets. I'm feeling excellent about the Knicks. I really like how the things are falling in their favor lately. And the Jets are garbage. Okay. And I need a break. So I'm not coming to your house to watch the Super Bowl. Let me think about it. Right. Let me just think about it. I mean, Jack, are you having a Super Bowl party? I'll be going over to this guy's house. Okay. Oh, that's nice. That's great. Lucas. Yeah. Let's everyone welcome Lucas to the big picture. And thanks for the invite, Lucas. I keep getting emails about restaurants that are offering wings. Can I be honest? Yeah. Two social functions in a row in the same day is just a lot for me to consider. I mean, me too. But the alternative is like hosting 40 children in the morning and then hosting my two children in the afternoon. Yeah. Well, alone. You know, you can't have it all. That's what I say. Football, two children. Yeah. Birthday party. Yeah. And mammograms. Yeah. Congrats to you. Thank you so much. All right. Let's go to the movies. So, you know, we've done the movie swap quite a bit, but it's been a while. And I think there's probably a lot of new listeners to the show who don't even know what this premise is. It's not super ornate or complicated. but um even in remembering when it started i forgot the original episode so i thought this was going to be our fifth movie swap but in fact it is our sixth as you pointed out to me the first one we ever did was in 2019 and we swapped into the spider verse and sense and sensibility and this is so almost seven years ago i think that the character of the show was kind of coming into view right around this time and it's kind of like you're into this kind of a thing and i'm into this kind of thing. We have a lot of meeting points, but there's a certain kind of a thing that maybe we won't experience too often. Shows changed a lot since then. And like, we both kind of see everything now. There's not anything that we are skipping over, but I famously had not seen Sense and Sensibility before. And you didn't do the Into the Spider Verse episode with me. I think I did it with Micah Peters way back in the day. So we swapped. Yeah. Fun conversation. You loved Into the Spider Verse. And I really liked Sense and Sensibility. And it was also instructive about, it taught me a lot about how I watch animation, what I respond to. And because Into the Spider-Verse is such a dynamic and inventive version of animation, it was good to watch because everything I've seen since then, I have as a reference point. And that conversation, just in terms of color palette and types of drawings and that sort of thing. So it was cool. I still think about you being like, yeah, I just this is this is a movie about how people can't get married a lot. Yeah. Just a lot of rules around marriage. Yeah. Just do it. Just get in there. OK. Just knock it out. I just I've been I've been thinking of working a shop at shopping a take in my own mind about just like I think like past a certain tax bracket. You just like should not get married anymore. You were saying this way before you were married. No, I know. You were all hung up on this. It is a business arrangement, you know? And so there are, like, all of these people, you know, like, Timothy Chalamet and Kylie Jenner engaged. I hope not. They don't need to be. Like, they can just, they can build a life together, and they can keep their businesses separate. One, this is your most COD take of all time. Two, you're, like, read way too much Jane Austen. The, like, anxiety that you have while you're in this seemingly very healthy and stable, long-running relationship and marriage. It's great for me. It's really good. Okay. So don't scold anyone. Especially not wealthy people. It's just a financial arrangement. Okay. You know? And also, if we then... And then, like, our tax code is also built to pressure people into getting married, even though they don't need to get married. Yeah. Well, I think we know. You think it's because of the intersection of the Christian power structure and the nation state? Yes. Do you think that they're, like, long-running... Yeah. Okay. Uh-huh. How do we disassemble that? We're working on it. Anyway, that's what... Sense and Sensibility is about that. I like the film quite a bit. 2020, we did Aliens versus Four Weddings and a Funeral. I'd also not seen Four Weddings and a Funeral. shameful uh good movies they were both good we went back to the james cameron well in 2021 we did terminator 2 versus titanic these were revisits yes we had seen we'd both obviously seen these films many times and that was an interesting conversation it was good and that was also great prep for uh one battle after another yeah that's a really good point um it also was great prep for the kind of return of james cameron because the following year he made avatar the way of water and cameron kind of re-emerged as a big figure in the world of movies right before that. 2022, we did Fargo versus The English Patient, which was a swap of also films we had seen before. But I had not seen The English Patient. You had seen Fargo, as I recall. Yeah, of course. I like Fargo very much. You know, I just also, I do like The English Patient. And I thought that Seinfeld episode was rude. I thought The English Patient was okay. I know, you were mean about it. You were just like, this is a David Lean ripoff. Which, like, yeah, that's okay. I know, and I really like Anthony Minghella. Sometimes we just want to make good things again. i do get that also rave finds you i mean and christian scott thomas and the hair and the herodotus and the wind and the the lamp has gone out and i'm writing in the darkness the lamp has gone out and i'm writing in the darkness is like these are not insights they're just things that are in the movie um well but they're they're well done okay beautiful uh 2023 we had a three-way movie swap. A menage, you might say. With Bobby Wagner, the late, great Bobby Wagner. Where are you, Bobby? Bobby, I hope you're well. Casablanca, which Bob had never seen. The In-Laws, which I think neither of you guys had seen. And Spy Kids, which we had not seen before. Spy Kids, I say this with affection, a Gen Z classic from Bob. That was a fun episode. And then for some reason, we stopped doing these episodes. well at bob's last episode was like a one-way movie swap which was shrek uh and which we had seen but that we revisited and took seriously yes and now i i text bobby about shrek anytime i encounter it in the world i also need to text him about spongebob i think oh yeah he knows yeah also knows about that craig horlbeck and bob were the two people who were like spongebob to me is basically Han Solo in 2017 when they first started working here. And that was when I knew I was getting older. That was a critical moment in my life. They're special people. Yeah. Bob might have to come back for Shrek 5. But it's not until next year, right? They pushed it to 2027? Oh, did they? I believe so. Shrek 5, 2027. Yeah. Shrek 5 delayed. Because didn't they have to redo? Are they redoing the animation because no one liked how it looked? Is that true? I don't know whether I'm making that up. What do you mean they don't like how? That's what happened with the first movie. The first movie, they were like, well, we got to improve the animation quality. And then Shrek 2 looks much better. Okay, so I'm reading Shrek 5 release date to June 2027. June 2027. That's a long ways away. What will they do? As part of the new movie, it doesn't say anything. So maybe I'm just remembering from the first movie. And then also, what was the recent? Was it Sonic who they redid? Yes, the fan outcry. Okay. Yes. And then that honestly turned out to be a great choice because they redesigned the Sonic character. And now they've made three Sonic movies, which have made a shit ton of money. Yeah. I saw the first one. Yeah. At the Arclight. It was not bad for a kid's movie. I wonder if Alice is like that. Sonic? I don't know. Do you want to bring that into your life? Well, that's an on-ramp to Jim Carrey. So then how do we get more into Jim Carrey in my house? Okay. That could be good. I bought the Star Wars encyclopedia. Oh. Which is like this big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we just look at it every day. Okay. And we just go through every character. But there's a lot of spoilers in it. We haven't finished the films, but God, Star Wars. It's so good. Are you sure that I can't just bring my children over to your house during the Super Bowl and they can just all look at the Star Wars encyclopedia? I don't want your animals tearing this beautiful book apart. Cy, I don't think, I don't, I'm not sure if he can. No, I mean, I don't think he can trust him with this book. I don't think Cy will ever be allowed to read a book. Bless him. Knox would enjoy it. It's very colorful and interesting and complicated. Okay, so we've done these movie swaps in the past. in part to kind of share something with each other. And this is a proper movie swap. You've not seen the movie and I've not seen the movie before. And they are, I think, in some ways, very indicative of our taste. Is that fair to say? Yes. Maybe a little complicated on the Mamma Mia side. Yeah, there's I mean, there's a lot going on that Mamma Mia came up and was, I think, the inspiration for 2008 because we've been talking about Amanda Seyfried a lot because of her work in The Housemaid and Testament of Anne Lee. We were hoping she would get an Oscar nomination. We're big fans. And you have just not seen any of her core work, including both Mamma Mia and Les Miserables. Yeah, well, now I have. And so Mamma Mia kept coming up. And then I think so. I have seen both Mamma Mia's. There are certain parts of the Mamma Mia films that are very important to me. Like, is it on a level with sense and sensibility? Let me be clear. No. is it as important to me as sense and sensibility or four weddings and a funeral or the you know any of those no but it's pop culturally significant it is so i feel that the strangers is too though definitely not at the same level and i chose the strangers for a couple of reasons one of them is a thematic idea that i think is really interesting that matt that like crosses over here the other thing is that i feel like this is quite possibly one of the most influential horror movies of this century. Now, that doesn't mean I think it's one of the best. It doesn't mean I think it is a movie without flaw. I do think it's very artful and interesting, and I think it maybe doesn't get as much love as it did for a five to ten year period of time because so many people have been ripping it off in recent years. And it, of course, is iterating on a huge part of horror history and real life crime history. But I thought it would be an interesting one for you to watch because it is not supernatural it is and it is not it is really more in the realm of what we've talked about that you enjoy or at least can find kind of interesting it's not it's not supernatural and it's not gory yes it is it is fucked up with respect and i was like i really liked it and i was also really messed up by it and almost texted you several times being like fuck you yeah yeah it is a kind of a movie but in a way that i did enjoy i didn't feel sometimes when things get too gory or too supernatural it's not that i'm scared of them i'm irritated and so i think what i've learned as i've watched more and more horror movies is that it's actually not fear that is my issue it's just things i don't really like watching discomfort i just like grossness i'm just kind i'm irritated and i was not irritated by this i i was scared um but not but but but really enjoyed it so it's it's unusual that it's a 2008 movie apparently this movie was shot in 2006 2007 and just sat on the shelf for a year. So it's just by circumstance that it kind of, and I was just looking at a long list of 08 movies and that's how I landed on The Strangers. And so by circumstance, we come to talk about it. But it is written and directed by Brian Bertino. It is his directorial debut. It's one of the first scripts he wrote. He submitted it to the Nickel Fellowship or Nickel Grant contest. I think he came in third place, but it got noticed. He got a call from super producer Roy Lee, who's gone on to be arguably the most successful independent producer in Hollywood. Last year he was behind Minecraft and weapons and he's like kind of world class at locating material and getting in early with young talent. But so this was an example of he read the script. He thought the script was good. He brought it in. The movie is got a very small cast. It basically has only three actors of note in it. It's about a couple, Kristen and James, who are expecting a relaxing weekend and a family vacation home. But after a wedding one night where a kind of awkward situation happens between them, they find at three o'clock in the morning a knock at their door, four o'clock in the morning, a knock at their door from a strange woman who stands in the shadows who is looking for a friend. This is the first of several encounters with strangers in the neighborhood who then ultimately come to haunt and terrorize them throughout the evening. So you said that you enjoyed it. I'll put my... I'll just go first very quickly. I saw this movie in movie theaters. I didn't really know anything about it. I'd seen the trailer and that was it. And I was deeply affected by it because it is extremely unnerving with no knowledge and no information. And because of kind of where horror was at this time and what it was favoring, which was a lot of very slick remakes of horror classics. This was at a time when like Texas Chainsaw Massacre remake was happening. The Nightmare on Elm Street remake was happening. The Last House on the Left remake was happening. This kind of platinum dunes era. Plus, there was also a kind of torture porn. Saw, Hostel, you know, those films were also very popular in the horror mainstream. And this is. And this is a year after the Funny Games remake. Yes, exactly. Which is notable. Totally. And we can talk about Funny Games 2 here and kind of like the ways in which they're similar and the ways in which they are polar opposites. Yeah. But. Unlike funny games, this movie could not be less meta. It is a pure experiential movie of how would you feel if this happened to you? And it just hit me very hard. The other reason why I thought it would be good to talk about it is the third Strangers movie comes out this weekend. Oh, it does. Oh, Katie McNabb is going to be so excited. She texts me all the time being like, why aren't you watching the Strangers? This is one of my best friends. That's so funny to me because I honestly think those movies are like unwatchable. They're like their remake slash origin stories behind this Strangers movie. There was a sequel to this movie in 2014. That's the problem. We don't need an origin story. Well, I agree. I agree. That's part of what is so great about this movie. So this movie is, it kind of exists out of nowhere. Yeah. And it is. It leaves you feeling unsettled and that's it. So, you know, tell me what else you thought about it. Yeah. So this movie is about the scariest thing of all is like not knowing. Not knowing what's going on. Not knowing who's behind the mask. Not knowing who's behind the door. not knowing what's on the outside of the frame, not knowing why two people can't get married, not knowing why. There's so little exposition. There is almost, almost, there is like 99% no origin story. And I want to talk about the 1% that comes in. As you said, it's a pretty limited class, three people that you recognize. There are a few other people, but you only see them in masks. It uses shadows and angles and doors and incredibly well constructed and edited. But it is as much about what you don't see as what you see. Um, and, and then what you do see is again, scary by like this, this fairness and the, the not, the not knowing who is behind that mask or, you know, where the, where the person is. So I do think that that is, I thought it was effective. Um, I appreciate it. Like I was watching it and appreciating the filmmaking choices that they made, how they constructed it to to be scary um and found myself leaning forward several times being like take off the mask take off the mask which is um you know a credit to them being able to build the tension in that scene and understand that primal urge which is like what you really want is to know and it is just so scary that you don't know it's a very um withholding film like both visually and emotionally so of course i loved it and um well i mean truly like if it were well it's so funny that you were just going off on your marriage jack because like that's like kind of a it's it like the essential motivating emotional identity of the movie is this couple played by scott Speedman and Liv Tyler who have come from a wedding that night And Scott Speedman character proposes to Liv Tyler character that evening and she declines. She turns him down. Yeah. And then that sets this awkwardness, this tension between this couple who are returning to Scott Speedman's character's family childhood vacation home. Right. And that should be the safest place in the world. And it's staged for an acceptance and there are rose petals and multiple bottles of champagne in the bathroom and also in the kitchen, which, you know, I had some questions about. Just like some bath bubbles. Sure. And like it's supposed to be a place of like warmth and celebration. And instead, they're already like very remote and not speaking to each other. and um the movie does a very smart thing with the scott speedman character which it constructs in a way where you think it could be him for a while um and you're wondering whether this is a revenge for the fact that she said no um and and and then that also sets up the ultimate reveal of what the movie is about um in that it's like it's not really about revenge at all it's about it's about nothing it's random it's that you don't know yeah um so yeah i thought it was gnarly and cool yes it's a scary i don't i they're scary and they're used well here they are there's so there are three strangers yeah who come to this home they all wear masks of a certain kind um the the lead stranger the tall male stranger wears a kind of a sack mask that recalls like the town that dreaded sundown there's like it's a it's a callback to like some other scary yeah and you might see in movies it's like familiar but it's also not like the ghost face mask like commercialized into like total oblivion at this point you're still there's there is one shot where live tyler's in the kitchen and then he like shows up in the hallway and just absolutely terrifying and you won early on early on yeah and it's amazing and and and you know i was both very afraid and also like, wow, bravo filmmaking in that moment. So this was a cool movie for me to understand kind of like, you know, how composition and what you see and pacing and editing like are, are essential to a horror film. Yeah. It's a really thin movie purposefully, very spare. It kind of does recall some of those like seventies elevated grindhouse movies where it's like, we only have so much money. We only have so much time, you know, Liv Tyler and Scott Speedman at this time were like pretty well known. Scott's being in from Felicity. Liv Tyler had been the star of many movies up until this point. Not exactly the most deep and considered roles. Liv Tyler is either whispering or screaming at the top of her lungs in this movie. I had to turn up the volume so high at home, the sound transfer or whatever, that obviously I was just streaming. I was thinking about this while revisiting it yesterday. Do you think the movie is better or worse if it's unknown actors that we've never seen before? I I, Amanda watching, would think it's worse because I am curious about I have relationships to Scott Speedman and to Liv Tyler. And I'm curious about what's going on with them. And they are also like very beautiful. Right. Very watchable. And it's not not that you couldn't find beautiful, unknown people. But there is something about. You know, my interest in celebrity is a little about it is related, right? Because I like I just like want to know everything about all these people that I have that I don't know, but who are, you know, shiny and famous or what have you. I mean, I think that that is what animates celebrity, what animates movie stars. There is something that you're that you're trying to crack about these people. So I think using Scott Speedman and Liv Tyler, two beautiful people who you do have some sort of relationship to, like compliments the themes of the movie. Yeah, I think I agree and I disagree. Like on the one hand, that definitely you get more emotionally invested because you're like, please do not kill Liv Tyler. This is very important to me that the star of the Aerosmith videos from the 90s not die on screen. On the other hand, I do think that the movie has such a kind of out of nowhere quality that it's the only thing that makes it feel like Hollywood product. Everything else about it, it's very, you know, it's pretty slick in terms of how it's made and it's very professional. It's not like a cheapo movie, but because of the kind of the resistance to sharing really very much information at all is totally its magic trick. It's part of what makes it such an effective film. You know, you sometimes get taken out of it when I'm like Scott Spiedman is like the most handsome guy of all time. Like this is like a little hard to accept. Oh, it wasn't. I know. I'm sure you enjoyed it. Yeah. And Liv Tyler, like being very beautiful and then changing into her 2007 plaid shirt, which I also laughed a lot at. Yeah, that was nice. I thought about wearing a plaid shirt and then I was like, I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Not a plaid guy myself. It's back. It's back. Yeah. Excuse me. It's back. Indie Sleaze is back. Oh, you know, etc. That's how I know you were having dinner with Yassi Salik last night. No, that's just the internet. Once again, I, like everyone else, am on Instagram. You guys are so excited about Indie Sleaze. The other thing about the movie, Protino never made a movie before and tremendously confident in the filmmaking style and also confident in telling the story the way that he wanted to. Apparently, multiple people were offered this movie in the year after he sold it and Universal didn't want to let him direct it. I think Mark Romanek, the music video director, was going to come along and take a shot at it, but he wanted it to be like a slightly bigger movie. He wanted to make it as a $40 million movie and they didn't want to. And it, it worked so much better. And there's a couple, there's a lot of interesting academic writing about this movie when, especially when it began to emerge as a cold hit, some of the writing is sort of like, there are two ways of looking at horror in the aftermath of nine 11. One is that the kind of like viscera of the torture porn era is this manifestation of us watching these epic tragedies that had, you know, cost so many lives and that there's kind of no way to cope with the immense pain that so many people were feeling in the country in the sense of like disillusionment and sadness. And so the only way to kind of push through that is like revenge and like gore. And then there's another aspect of it that is sort of like, this is a movie about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Right. That's what that's what a lot of the sort of criticism hones in on is the randomness of violence in the world. And that sometimes you can just get hit by a car driven by a drunk driver and that's the end of your life. And there's no way to control that kind of tragedy in the world. And this movie is kind of about that. And its killer's motivations are fascinating because they are like a nothingness. They are, it's not even a nihilism. It's like they have their own mission, but that mission is born of just violence. Just the kind of amusement maybe. But there's not a lot of, they're not laughing, gleeful killers. They're not, But they do seem to be getting something out of this psychological experiment that they're inflicting upon this couple throughout this night. Yeah, though, they really they wear the masks throughout. They don't get the reveal. And I did, you know, watching there is a climactic scene where the closest an explanation of sorts is finally given. And it's daylight also. And as I was watching, I said, I was like, oh, they filmed it where they take the masks off. And then they realized in edit that it's more powerful. You never see their faces. Well, I watched it and then I read online. I mean, you know, this is a half baked internet research, but that that is the case where in edit, they discovered that it makes more sense. There was just something about the cutting and the way that the people are like, they're not in the frame that they, you know, that they would be. I think that's totally right. The right decision. And like a cool understanding of what your film is achieving and editing is filmmaking too. So that's great. Um, but you, so you purposely don't get anything of the characters except of what's in their masks or, or them from behind and the strangers that is. And there is, you know, one incredibly scary thing scene, I think, where the man in the mask like sits at the table and I guess he's reflecting for a moment, but for the most part otherwise they're just like running around or on the hunt they're not really people they're just sort of chess pieces they are they are masks yeah and your inability to understand what they're doing is the point and what's scary about them yeah it's it they're they're really interesting avatars for this idea too because the a lot of horror movies that as we've talked about ad nauseam in the last 10 years go to great lengths to psychologize intent and rationalize trauma and why they lead to these terrible acts, which is kind of valid, but is really overdone, I think, as a style choice now. And would absolutely ruin this movie. That's what I was going to say. Bertino says that the Manson family tape murders were a big inspiration for this, but I find that very unsatisfying as an idea, and I think maybe he realized in the edit, perhaps, that to remove as much motivation and even humanity as possible would be valuable, because we know a lot about the Manson family murders now, and while they were maniacal and conspiracy laden and driven by a mental imbalance and drug use and all of these things that were happening inside of that cult. There was intent. It was like, we're going to this house on purpose because these people live there. Whereas this is just like, who's home? And also we're writing things on the walls and there is some sort of mythology. Yeah, it is. I mean, I do think, can we talk about the ending? can we get there so the the explanation or like the final moment whatever reason is given is you know live tyler says like why are you doing this to us and the woman who i believe that's jemma ward the model uh one of the two women is jemma ward and i think it's her she's still in a mask and she says yes doll face yes um because you were home which is definitely like the best possible explanation that the movie can give because there is no because you don't want an origin story you don't want a real reason i think no answer would have been better personally still because i still think that is the one moment where it tips and it is i mean there is an answer the answer is just like randomness but that but even even having an answer kind of steps on the total the the not knowing this which is the most terrifying part of the movie and if it had been completely ambiguous if you don't get an answer then you're just like what the fuck which right if they had said nothing in the face of that question that might have been fascinating yeah i mean i think the movie itself it seems to be this kind of rejection of a lot of horror movie strategy in the previous years where like a lot of horror movies are basically showing the transgress especially slashers they're showing the transgressions of other people like you had sex or you were mean, you were a bully or you were, you know, if you look at Friday the 13th and Nightmare on Elm Street the way that teenagers do things they're not supposed to do and then they get punished for it and this is not that and I guess you could say maybe like this movie is trying to explore something about the fractured nature of this relationship and then this is a kind of outsized aftermath of two people who are not able to make it work and you know it's just a psychological exploration of a broken relationship. I guess that's one way you can kind of see the movie. But it's still using core horror tropes to get you emotionally scared, making sure that the person is staying safe or not safe. So, I don't know. It's a pretty rich movie for an 81-minute slasher that ends somewhat unsatisfyingly but very bleakly in a way that is kind of inspiring to me. The Universal Studios would put out a movie, a super short, grisly horror movie. It's not that. I mean, I've seen worse. Yeah. The final kill is very... Actually, I watched the unrated version. I don't remember. Maybe it is more intense than what you saw. The unrated version, particularly the final deaths, are very, very... You don't actually see a lot in the version that I saw, or the version that was released. I mean, that kind of does change things a little. But that is also, at the end, for the most part, it's just an hour. Like, you know, Glenn Howerton gets his face shot off but like whatever that's you don't even yeah that's not that scary you know yeah the rest of it is smoke detectors and cell phones and and like running and and smashing car windows it's not really that bloody do you get scared when you're alone in your house um not anymore um i did though though i should because like i was like i don't live alone anymore even when Zach's gone, I'm with the two kids. But then I'm responsible for them, so maybe I should be more scared. And we also still live on a hill. Our last house that you remember, we lived on a hill, and you had to come upstairs, and so there was this sense of, like, once you were trapped up on a hill, there was no escape, sort of. And we did, like, someone came up to the stairs once and was like, they weren't trying to, like, break in. I don't know the person wasn't well but um and I was home alone and that was very scary and I was thinking a lot about that moment while watching The Strangers so yeah I guess but no for the most part I'm just like yeah I can do whatever I want I feel awesome it's funny I think one of the things that the movie does so well is that it isolates sound particularly that first knock that comes from The man in the mask that is not the girl we foresee her. That it's a very small, simple choice, like a single knock at a door at 430 in the morning can be the most upsetting thing that could possibly happen to you. And there are like a couple of needle drops in the movie that also kind of unnerve you as you go. But for the most part, like there's not a lot of score. There's not a lot of ambient sound. There's hardly any dialogue in the movie. and it holds you pretty tight it communicates space really well because you do feel immediately that sense of there's nowhere to go like these characters are trapped and they even like they do go outside which is just like really stupid but um you know as as these things are but i will say you know i know i know it's the that like don't do that is a core part of horror movies and they're always supposed to make mistakes. But I even found the mistakes that these characters make, whether it's going outside or it's Scott Speedman going on a drive at 5 in the morning. It's stupid, but I thought it was to make me think Scott Speedman was the guy in the mask. And it is. It's a movie moment. I just re-watched this movie called Nightmares, which is a 1980s omnibus horror movie. And then the very first sequence, it's a 20 minute short film, basically about a killer on the loose in a small town. And a woman, a mother of two is a smoker and it's past 11 p.m. And she really wants to go get cigarettes. And the killers on the loose, they've just watched a news report in their home. And she's like, I just fucking need cigarettes. I just have to go get cigarettes. And she leaves against the wishes of her husband in that scene. Obviously, we know what happens to her after that. so it's like that's that's just a trope and totally i got that too but even as i was like thinking through the structure and like the and i do have notes for scott steven's character but that one i was like oh i see why the movie did that because i i i wasn't sure i was like and and i i think i ultimately landed on the side of i don't think it's him because the movie is doing such a specific job of having him i'd like he's on screen or the man in the mask is on screen for such a long time yes um so i credit them for that and i was like i i don't i don't know if that many people watching this are taking the puzzle pieces apart as they are i do that also when i'm scared i'm like if i focus on the mechanics of this then i won't have to be terrified and sit in these emotions yeah i just think leaving my no i mean you can't do that not non-fiancee at 3 30 in the morning to go get a pack of cigarettes in the middle of nowhere that's just not really this This is another question I have. I just so the I do think the film communicates the space of the house and just outside the house and that they're trapped. And just that, you know, it implies that someone is just on the other side of the door and you really do feel that in such an intense way. Very well. I'm not clear on the geography of the rest of the neighborhood. And it's like you see houses that are like way closer. you see streetlights like are we really in the middle of nowhere i don't i'm that i don't know it's unclear it's unclear what state they're in right do we even know what state they're it was filmed in south carolina and it did it did i wondered if it was like atlanta adjacent because the houses at the beginning looked familiar okay or you know like i was style how would you have felt if you'd been proposed to at a wedding so this is one of my notes I mean, the biggest note is just like no one, but especially not Liv Tyler, is saying yes to that ring. That's very pathetic. And if your family has a vacation house, it's like... I mean, it's a cabin in the woods. Well, it's... Handed down for generations. It has a fireplace. And, you know... And then we've got Joanna Newsom on vinyl. That's true. And they have, like, a rifle in the closet and a lot of shoes. A lot of shoes for a vacation house. So maybe they also have an heirloom. I just, you know, in the Sex and the City, when Aiden proposes with like a pear-shaped diamond. I do remember that, yes. And that's like a tough, and it's a tough look. What's the ideal shape for a diamond? Not pear-shaped. And also this just looks like he bought it in a gumball machine. the diamond that I got for Eileen when I proposed is in the shape of Babu Frick so I'm really proud of that I like him but it was naturally occurring no one shaped it into Babu Rosamund Pike and now you see me too set you up at that that's beautiful no conflict there so that ring that's sort of a non-starter situation and then it seems like the proposal is impromptu but it isn't because he has this plan back at home It just seems like he's a little bit of a fumbler. No, it seems like... I can't tell whether he was planning to propose at home. Oh, at home. And then he was just too swept up in the moment. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so he proposes in a parking lot. He does have the ring on him, though I thought that was just sort of like a security safety thing. Do you remember the weekend that... So my husband proposed to me after a group vacation that we all took, and he said that he was just hiding the ring in different parts of our vacation house. Yeah, I did a similar thing. throughout the week, which is psychotic and wouldn't help at all. But I tried to keep the one before I proposed, like in my breast pocket as often as I could, you know, for as many hours a day as I could without it. Which is like probably the only foolproof way to make sure that. Well, I was like, this is the most valuable thing I've ever been near in my life times many thousands. So I'm fine with him having it on his person, but it does seem like the parking lot proposal was like a little rush. yeah um and all we find out is that she just says i'm not ready isn't it so encouraging when you see such beautiful people also be so fumbling at romance i think that's also one of the tricks of rom-coms where it's like yeah it doesn't matter if you look like julia roberts it's still fucking hard yeah um and then so that's tough you think you should have died because of that no okay um and i don't think she should have i don't think she should have died either I do think like the going outside I don't know what he's thinking it's a real defend the perimeter situation you know like I just you gotta also half the time she's leaving the door and the door is not locked I was like man what are you doing here's a tactical question for you someone comes into your home an intruder you're well within your rights to kill that person okay alright I mean to defend yourself Sure. Legally speaking. Yeah. Okay. Within your home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not saying on the property. Yeah. Okay. And Scott Spiven is like definitely hiding. I'm not saying that's a just law. I don't even know. I don't even understand the law. Okay. I am saying that that is a true fact. If they come after you, you can defend yourself. The CIA defunded the Super Bowl, and Sean is your defense lawyer. Did I get this law wrong? Okay, keep going. I don't think you have the right to kill the person. You have the right to defend yourself. And Scott Spiegelman is like, I'm going to see if I can kind of bob and weave here a little bit. Like, I'm going to see if I can kind of dance through the raindrops in the movie. Like, he's not willing to kind of get after it. What's he so afraid of, you know? He's going to get killed anyway if he doesn't take care of the situation. This guy's wearing a fucking mask over his head. It's just a real like barricade the home situation. With what? Just with furniture? With that joint and Newsom vinyl? With like other, you know, blunt instruments? I don't know. Start dragging. They don't even try to block the door. This couple had awesome taste in music. Merle Haggard, Gillian Welch, Billy Bragg and Wilco. Yeah. Where are these records coming from? Richard Buckner? Who's putting them on? This is what I'm saying. It's like I do feel that, well, at some point, the strangers start putting them on, which is also funny. That's right. That's right. So they also have great taste. They're like, now it's time for Merle Haggard. I mean, they're working with what's there. Yeah, but, you know, Mama Tried is like the closing haunting jam. You know, it's kind of, that's a tough one. And so this movie made $85 million. Great. It did launch a sequel, which came six years later, which Bertino wrote and I assume was rewritten and had a different director. Actually, the director, I believe, was Johannes Roberts, who just directed Primate, which came out this year. but then two years ago Rennie Harlan started making these new Strangers movies which Katie loves and I love Katie but they stink Madeline Petsch Katie has a letterbox profile so you can let her know I'd like to follow her if she'd have me she also has some notes about the app design but you know that's her well she knows a lot about apps so I understand that letterbox they're doing great yeah they're crushing it but you know Katie's notes might be helpful how many stars would you give this one letterbox uh three and a half Okay, pretty good. Yeah. Not bad. Positive. Yeah. Bertino has had kind of an odd career. I would say I thought he was going to be one of the most significant horror directors of his generation. And he's worked, but has never really kind of reached the mountaintop again. He made a movie in 2014 called Mockingbird, which I never saw. He made an A24 thriller called The Monster in 2016, which was kind of a little seen. 2020 is The Dark and the Wicked is probably his second best feature which is a similarly unnerving domestic horror starring Maren Ireland that Sierra and I both really like And then last year he made a movie called Vicious which was not very good, very disappointing. It went straight to streaming. Well, it's tough that this movie is about doing as little as possible, right? There is no Gilded Lilies and that is what makes it successful so it is really hard to revisit the well when Spareness is the signature of the achievement. It is. it's so interesting that a movie like this becomes IP to me the whole point of it is that it shouldn't it should just sit alone on a shelf and be a scary thing 2026 baby you know everything is IP you think it's been a good year? yeah awesome I'm thriving let's pivot to Mamma Mia this is another 2008 film started by Felidia Lloyd it's based on the 1999 stage musical Mamma Mia, which is, of course, built around the epic pop catalog of ABBA. Katherine Johnson adapted the show for a screenplay. It stars Meryl Streep, Pierce Brosnan, Colin Firth, Stellan Skarsgård, Julie Walters, Dominic Cooper, Amanda Seyfried, and Christine Baranski. What a cast. Benny Anderson and Bjorn Olvaeus from ABBA composed the score of this film. And the story is such. Donna, an independent hotelier in the Greek islands. I also read that on Google. Preparing for her daughter's wedding with the help of two old friends. Meanwhile, Sophie, the spirited blonde daughter, has a plan. She secretly invites three men from her mother's past in hope of meeting her real father and having him escort her down the aisle on her big day. I ask myself this. What did I think of Mamma Mia? I've never seen a film be so good and so bad simultaneously. And I completely understand the phenomenon of this movie. I'm actually willing to join the cult, but it is extremely important to talk about the myriad ways in which this movie also kind of sinks. And it's such a fascinating paradox. They are woven into the text of the film. Not unlike the songs of Abba themselves. It's a fair point. That's a good place to start. It is a film that is very aesthetically and spiritually in tune with its source material being the incandescent, inescapable, wonderful, and also really stupid songs of ABBA. Yes. The pop junk genius of ABBA. Which is like, I would say a group that I, I wouldn't say have no relationship to it, but they were never my guys in the parlance of Marc Maron. My guys and gals. But if the actual song Mamma Mia comes on, or Dancing Queen, or if you're a wedding and a song like that hits, like, you dance. Like, they're fun. My daughter has gotten very interested in the music of ABBA for a variety of reasons. And, like, Money, Money, for example, is a song she, like, knows the words to. Her friends at school sing the song. Okay. So, you know, tremendously infectious, as legible to a four-year-old as to a 43-year-old. Yeah. It persists, right? Like, isn't there a big ABBA show in Vegas right now? I think there was also some hologram type stuff right for a while i haven't really investigated what's going on there um i know we can go in april uh let's look into it las vegas because you know 2026 you know who else loves abba who's that uh craig horrell breath oh i didn't know or if he doesn't love abba then it's a running joke on the town right so right no he does it's his favorite group of all time. Okay. Ultimate Abba tribute. Abba Cadabra. Is that Abba with magic? No, I don't think so. But we'll see. Anyway. You know, Abba's fine. They have a lot of songs that are very fun. That's basically how I come to this movie. The movie itself has an ingenious premise. Ingenious. The actual direction of the film is some of the worst I've ever seen. It's quite four. This is Felidia Lloyd's first movie and her last movie, I believe. And she's a theater director and a season theater director. Celebrated has had a lot of success in the theater. It has so many famous people and so much charisma and so much natural winning charm. She directed The Iron Lady. So Meryl Streep had such a wonderful time. Okay, that tells me a lot. Thank you for filling in that gap. Another movie that is like so poorly directed. and Mamma Mia here we go again she didn't old Parker did you're right which is an important thing because she very clearly was replaced for a reason but the movie is so winning and everyone is having so much fun and it's in Greece they shot on location in Greece and it's a movie that while I was watching it so I'll set the scene I had a psychotic movie day two days ago. Here was the movie day that I had. I've been meaning to do our buddy Tim Simons and Matt Walsh's podcast Second in Command. And they talk about movies with presidents in them. I've been telling him for a year that I want to do the show. I told him I would do Lincoln. I hadn't been able to do it for months and months. And finally I was like, I'll do it on this Wednesday. So at 2pm I watch Lincoln. I'm watching Lincoln. Eileen texts me and she's like, if you're going to do Mamma Mia, we want to do it with you. Alice loves Abba. We're trying to get her into even more live action movies now. I was like, okay, if you guys get home at 4.30, I can watch Mamma Mia from 4.30 to 6.18. And then I got to drive to Warner Brothers to go to moderate a conversation for one battle after another. So they get home at 4.30 on the dot. They walk in. Alice sits down on the couch and we fire up Mamma Mia. We watch Mamma Mia. The whole time. I was like, I wish we had a bottle of wine open. Yeah. And I couldn't do that because I had to go and do the one battle thing, which was amazing. And, you know, honestly, one of the most fun things I've done in a long time. And, you know, so to watch, first of all, I watched three movies in a row, which is something I do often, but maybe not in quite this way with this level of like compact stress. But Mamma Mia is not a movie where you really need to be like locked into the performances and character motivations and the dynamics of the filmmaking. It's a hangout fun movie. it's a movie that like you should just get up and dance during yeah and you can kind of like walk around and go get a snack and pour yourself a glass of wine so like immediately when it was over eileen said to me like we should probably just like watch that again in a slightly different way i didn't have enough time to do that before this episode but i do actually like the movie was such a theatrical sensation but to be like locked in my chair i think would be maybe not of my favorite way to see this and i contrast that with the strangers where i was like sitting in a movie for 79 minutes like what is going to happen to these people this is a very different vibe it's so loose movies are very rarely this loose yeah i mean it is really built around the songs and the song performances especially the last 30 minutes where it's just like there's two lines of dialogue before they segue into like take a chance on me or whatever and you're you're thrilled because Julie Walters gets her moment to do Take a Chance on Me. It's very funny. And the movie is very knowing throughout, which is something I like about it. But that's when it really just winks of like, okay, how are we going to get all of these songs in this puzzle? So I think people seem to really like concert films and people seem to really like movie musicals, and that's what this is. And it is so like song and set piece based that everything in between, I agree, looks and is completely silly and under baked. And, um, not even like, there's not really any acting going on here. I think Amanda Seifert is giving it her all. She's giving it her all. She's the best part of this. She's the best part of the movie. She is by far the best singer in the cast. She is very game for the part. you can see this is her kind of like realizing that this is her moment, right? Shortly after, uh, mean girls. Um, it's, I think it's right before, uh, in time. Uh, it is right before in time and Jennifer's body. I was going to say, and she's kind of like, she's going for the brass ring. She's playing Meryl Streep's daughter. She's in a movie with Meryl Streep, Colin Firth, Pierce Brosnan, and Stone's car. She's like, and Julie Walters and Christine Baranski. She's going for it. Um, and she's giving a very sincere and kind of winning performance. It's the kind of character that she's very good at, right? where it's like kind of dewy-eyed for two straight hours. Her character's motivations, are they coherent? If you were in her situation, is this how you would want to find out who your dad is? In a kind of like, you know, match game style revelation? Are you, and again, this gets back to like, should we be getting married? She's 20 in the film, and she's marrying Dominic Cooper. Yeah. I gotta say, I think his character is quite logical in the film. Okay. I think he makes a lot of good points. He's got a lot of concerns about the way in which this family operates. And he's taken with her, obviously, and he wants to marry her. But he's like, this is not a parlor game for you to figure out who your dad is. We're getting married, lady. Yeah. So I can't say I really relate to any of her decision making throughout the process. She's a kook. yeah whether it's getting married at 20 um or inviting three men that she found in her mother's diary to her impromptu wedding would you read your mom's diary no good i really this is we don't have to you know what the theme of this this episode is what is it and like what we've learned is that we like don't actually need to know everything about each other yeah this is one of the, this is one of my, you know, my Italian therapist would sometimes be like, this is very American that you think you, and it was often like that you think you need to know everything or share everything. You don't, we don't need to know everything. I don't need to know. I know, but I'm, I, I'm an emotional detective. This is something that matters. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. When you want to be. And sometimes you're also an emotional, like a block. No, but, but you're, you're talking about what you're experiencing from me. I'm talking about what's inside. I think that you can either investigate or ignore what's going on with someone depending on what suits you. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Is that like a baseless accusation? No, I just, I'm like... Like Harvey Weinstein? Like, who are you referring to? No, no, no. I'm just like, if you need to do something and you need to do it, then maybe it doesn't matter what the other people feel. Yeah. I mean, that is actually how the people in this film operate, too. Yeah, it is very true. I mean, we all have to sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Block out the bad. Yeah. Bring in the good. Right. There you go. Feel the flow. Yeah. As they say in Happy Gilmore. 23 songs they squeeze into this one hour and 42 minute movie. Uh huh. Kind of amazing. It's great. I mean. It's a great choice. Yeah. Just like jukebox it the fuck out. The movie knows what it is. And it is really famous accomplished actors who can't sing on vacation in Greece performing the songs of ABBA while slightly hungover. I was looking for the internet research that, like, I don't know whether I made that. I don't think I made this up, but I couldn't find it that this movie, Meryl Streep and Christine Bransky and Julie Walters just treated as vacation, which, like, you would hope. And that there was not, like, a lot of, like, scene work, you know, or prep going in. And they were in Greece. And at least for the, you know, on location scenes, they also obviously constructed a set at Pinewood. But I think everyone was having a good time. No doubt. And that also, I think it infuses the performances. You know, there's something also kind of like amazingly unglamorous about the performers in the movie that I really appreciate. They are beautiful actors. Yeah. But, you know, the bulk of the cast is in middle age or older. And the men are like a little bit flabbier than we're used to seeing them. And everybody's a little sunburnt. and it does kind of feel like they've had a couple of glasses of wine while performing. And you just, it's so unusual to experience a movie where everyone's kind of like, yeah, we're just winging it, you know, like we're just, and now we're going to sing this song over here. Like it doesn't feel like a conventional Hollywood movie in that way, which I found very charming. I think it really like, it's a feature and not a bug of the film. And it seems like they almost designed it to be that way, or at least the performers knew what they were doing. As I say, Amanda Seifert is kind of like, she's going for it. And she's like looking sincerely into Pierce Brosnan's eyes and trying to, you know, ascertain the truth of her heritage. But everybody else is just like, yeah, past the the the the Kavassia. Right. Like here comes some people out of the one lagoon that we could film on. Yes. This is that this is my one note. It's like they didn't really use like the full breadth of the island. How would it's not my one note? I don't know. It's just a few notes. It's the same pier, you know, and the same one lagoon. one thing about movie musicals i want to talk about them just a bit yeah um the reason that i have not seen this film and i have not seen um les mis and that i have not seen the greatest showman have you seen les mis the musical i have okay it's not my favorite yeah so because you don't believe that the french people um should be free i don't i don't i think they should be imprisoned by a fascist state. No, I think there is something about the tone, color, and execution of modern musicals that I find a little off-putting. I 1000% agree with you. It's not across the board. West Side Story, Spielberg's film, I think that's one of the best movie musicals of the last 50 years. I think there's like... Yeah, but that is adapting an older musical, and I do think the source material is very important in that. I didn't love in the Heights, but I liked it. It's not across the board for me. Obviously, we did not enjoy Wicked, and we've talked about a great many movie musicals on the show over the last 10 years. But I think many of them are just that at a certain point, the source material becomes... The books and songs of modern musicals don't sit well with me. Just the writing and performance style? The writing and the song style. You know, people feel that the songs of Wicked are very good. Yeah, I find that a little strange. And I don't... Well, that's not true. I find a couple of them are good. Defying Gravity is good and Popular is fine, but they are like a musical style all of their own, which is a little saccharine, a little showy. Like the arrangements are of a piece. I'm by no means an expert in this field, so I'm not going to... I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to pretend that I am. There is something about the onset of the Andrew Lloyd Webber era of Broadway musicals that is not really my flavor. And everything feels since then to be a kind of like escalation in terms of the scope and the intensity of what the show is supposed to be. And I would much prefer Sondheim, but Sondheim is almost never adapted for movie musicals, which is an interesting thing. Like, obviously, Linklater is in the midst of doing Merrily We Roll Along. but I mean Meryl Streep was in and into the woods she was another show that I don't really care for that much but that had more to do with Rob Marshall than it did the actual show itself so I skipped those movies in part because I'm like there's just a very low likelihood I'm going to like this when this movie came out I had no professional obligation to go see it Eileen not really an ABBA person so she wasn't like I want to race out to go see this and so it just got by me but it's so interesting how big the movie is. Right. I was going to say it, but it was such a phenomenon. I kind of missed it. Yeah. I was stunned to learn that this movie has made $610 million worldwide at the box office. It's way bigger internationally than it is in the U.S. And it's big. It made $144 million domestically. Good job. That's very big. That's very big. But for a while, it was like the most seen movie in the UK. I mean, I'm like exaggerating, but its stats and its performance in the UK alone were a sort of singular like weather blip that you just can't really explain. I mean, you've got in the movie, you've got an Irish, English and Swedish kind of icon. I mean, all three of those actors in their native countries are massive stars. Pierce Brosnan's obviously was 007. so I think that attributes to it a little bit right it's a film that's also set in Greece it's a very European movie in many ways but 610 million I mean put some context on it like if you don't count animated Disney movies or live action adaptations of animated Disney movies this is the third highest grossing movie musical in the history of movies behind Wicked and Wonka which only just came out in the last two years that's a crazy stat I know that's why I've been like I can't understand how you haven't seen this movie I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Can you name a single friend of mine who you think would be, besides Juliet, who would be like a massive fan of Mamma Mia? It's not about being a massive fan. Am I a massive fan of Mamma Mia? I know about it because it is such a strange, it was so successful and such an anomaly and also stars Meryl Streep and Pierce Brosnan and Colin Firth and Selen Skarsgård singing ABBA on a boat. I don't know what to tell you. I mean, when you Google 2008 movies, what are the first movies that come up? This never works. Google sucks now. God, it's unbelievable how bad Google is. 2008 movies, Wikipedia. Come on. I mean, even if you just look at the most successful films from that year. That's the thing is it was the Dark Knight and Iron Man year. I saw both of those movies and I also had time for Miami. Once again, I have it all every day. Yeah, they truly can. WALL-E, Crystal Skull, Twilight. I saw Twilight in theaters. So did I. You know what would have gotten me to go see Mamma Mia in theaters? Putting vampires in it. Okay. If you put vampires in your movie, I will check it out. Don't roll it out for Mamma Mia 3. That's going to happen, right? They keep talking about it. I do. I meant to revisit the plot of Mamma Mia 2, which I saw in theaters at the Arclight. So with my mother and my husband. But I think that they might have some casting issues without spoiling Mamma Mia 2. Got it. The decisions are made. Okay. But vampires is a way to solve it. Let's go back to the cortex of Mamma Mia. And now it's time for Moments That Matter, a new segment brought to you by State Farm. Life moves fast. It's full of unexpected twists, big wins, and little surprises that stick with us. But that's totally fine because you can rely on State Farm to be there. Speaking of moments that stick, let's dive into the ones that made Mamma Mia unforgettable for you. Amanda, what jumps out to you? Meryl Streep singing The Winner Takes It All at Pierce Brosnan. at one of the most beautiful cliffs overlooking a Greek church on the hillside that I've ever seen. I think about this scene once a week. I'm most elated that you have now also seen this scene where Pierce Brosnan just stands there looking confused. Yeah, that's me on every pod, for the record. I know. And while Meryl Streep does a pretty credible job. Really good. This is her best performance in the movie. She's really good. And it's clear that she's like thought about that. That this is the only song. And it's one of Abba's great songs that like actually communicates any character development. And it's very much in her range to the singer. Yeah. They don't go like full disco on it, which is OK. That's it wouldn't be appropriate to the moment. But I do think we're missing something from the winner takes it all. But that's OK. Listen, this is about interpretation. and the fact that the winner Meryl Streep singing the winner takes it all at Pierce Brosnan on a Greek beach is like plot development of a kind yeah it's an incredible achievement and it's just it's something you don't see anywhere else you know they have never done it since no although doesn't the song make an incredible appearance in Bergman Island yes and It all makes sense now. Yeah, and I told you at the time, the second greatest use of The Winner Takes It All, ever. An amazing song. Great pick. When it comes to moments that matter in real life, there is no script, but State Farm has your back. With State Farm, you can focus on what matters most, knowing you're prepared for whatever comes next. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. What other musical performances do you think are great in this movie? Christine Baranski gets her Christine Baranski. this moment is so goofy but she's really silly but yeah and it again at some point they just start engineering things for characters to get their particular moment and there's something about you know she's so much taller than everyone everyone else dancing and the like you know committed like slightly campy version of of her performance that like really tickles me and you do spend the whole movie especially now you know post good wife post like bransky renaissance number four or whatever uh you're wondering like why did christine bransky say yes to this this is beneath the regal christine bransky and then she finally like gets her big moment i mean it is silly but they're all silly you know the first time you get the wide shot of Dancing Queen and everyone on the pier I was like well this is an important song sure who else I mean Amanda Seyfried is good but that's kind of that's not really the point of this what stayed with you I'm trying to think of what is the best Sophie song in the movie I Have a Dream maybe opens and closes it that might be the best, I mean she has more vocal range than most of the people in the movie too so what is the song is it S.O.S. when she's when she's singing on the beach to Dominic Cooper, what is that song? it's not S.O.S. because I think Pierce Brosnan sings S.O.S. yes, you're right, you're right, which is terrible yeah, which I mean it's tough news what does she sing? Is it Gimme Gimme Gimme A Man After Midnight, is that it? Maybe. Yeah, yeah. It might be that one. She has a few good moments. It's fascinating that they basically don't let Stellan Skarsgård sing. But they do let Pierce Brosnan sing three times. I mean, maybe it's not a let. Maybe it's a could convince to. Maybe Stellan Skarsgård had a better understanding of what was happening and what he could do. I really liked him in this movie. And I really liked that they let him be kind of like a charmer, kind of using his rapscallion persona, but certainly not being like a mean bastard, which is how he's kind of typecast in the last 20 years. Pierce Brosnan, though, an Irishman who can't sing. That's a bit of a concern. He sings like two lines in Our Last Summer Skarsg Yeah Yeah And what does he sing he also sings in our last summer and then he sings let see there one more that he gets Mamma Mia heads are pulling their hair out because of our lack of knowledge of ABBA and the songs I have it right now I was doing my best I was holding on for dear life watching this movie I was like another song so I think that you were talking about the Sophie song is lay all your love on me that's it yeah which is a classic one let's see there's also So Harry apparently sings on Take a Chance on Me. I'm just looking at the song list here. And yeah. Why is there not any good choreography in the movie? The men in flippers dancing on a pier. It's also one idea. That is. And I did sort of wonder. They could get at some point whether it's just kind of like resources. And who they could get because they did film the outdoor scenes on location in Greece. and it seems like they had a pretty good budget, but maybe they couldn't get professional dancers onto the island at the numbers required in order to really... I mean, what kind of choreography are you looking for? Good. I mean... The good kind. Did you think about the fact that also maybe no one can really dance? That's okay. I think you can have a kind of supporting crew of dancers behind. And they did have kind of multiple extras and additional performers in the film. I'll be honest. when you have this is another thing where modern musical choreography and dancing is a little too performative um and what do you mean by that i'll like too many people milking it and really just hitting every move really hard you know i'm i'm like doing yeah fossey fossey fossey yeah um and like only beyonce is beyonce you know and only beyonce's dancers are beyonce's dancers and everyone else. Like Wicked, there were a lot of people posing in the background and it just took me out every single time. I was like, no, this is not your movie. Just let them have their moment. Well, but no, it's not. It's not there. It's like there is Step Up and I think Step Up is really good. And when you're in the movie about the dancing, but when you're in a movie about two witches trying to, you know, navigate friendship and fascism, then like keep the hands in, you know? lovely thank you yeah really like what you did there thank you so much uh so i i politely disagree with that there is also there is one moment i noticed i think during um dancing queen where bransky and meryl streep are wearing chiffon skirts not unlike the um west side story skirts and they do like one jerome robbins like a sashay moment yes and that's good but i don't know if They could have kept up that choreography for the whole number. So we're meeting people where they are. Yeah. Let's talk about Meryl quickly. Okay. Loves this thing. She loves it. So such an important movie in her career. Yeah. Because, you know, it's almost immediately after Devil Wears Prada. Devil Wears Prada is 2006. And she's really like, is she in her 50s when she's made this movie? I think, yeah, mid to late 50s. I Googled it. And it's just an absolute box office draw. Yeah. You know, the greatest actress of her generation in her 50s is commanding multiple hundred million dollar movies. Yeah. Again, completely anomalous. There's this is not there's no other precedent for this, really, I would say, in the history of Hollywood. Most actresses, as we have talked about, we just talked about this in the conversation with Rachel McAdams are like discarded by the industry. Obviously, she's cut above. But the fact that. And also in a female-led movie about the fashion industry. It's not a romantic comedy, but it's not like a bunch of men fighting each other. And then in a movie musical about ABBA. Yes. You know, it's not. She didn't like Shirley's Theron in it and be like, now I'm going to, like, you know, get a gun and start fighting people. That's right. That's right. She's held guns in movies before, though. Meryl? Yeah. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to find her filmography, but once again, Google, I just, you know, need a reference. Let's see. Meryl Streep. with the kangaroo. Did she hold a gun in that one? I don't know what's going on. A cry in the dark? Yeah. The bingo. You're thinking of a dingo. Yeah. I'm sorry to Australia. We haven't been yet. You're going to have to revisit or watch that film for the Meryl Streep Hall of Fame. That's fine with me. I now, okay, I finally got it. So let's see. Hit us with this era. This 10-year period. Postcards from the Edge. She sings way more than she holds a gun. She does. Loves to sing. Postcards from the Edge. No gun that I recall. Some, you know, does some drugs. Death becomes her, no guns. Some law of violence, though. Bridges in Madison. Yeah, but like funny violence. Bridges in Madison County. I don't remember what. Does she have a gun? I don't. I mean, they're in Montana. I don't know. I don't know what goes on there. I'm not an expert on that. No, she wields a camera. Okay. Adaptation, no gun. The hours, flowers. It was really a lemony snicket. Don't really know what's happening there. Is a lemony snicket a thing for your generation, Jack? I don't know what that is. Okay. A series of unfortunate events. A series of children's books that were adapted into movies and then a television series. Lions for Lamps. She plays a very powerful journalist who is modeled on who is the awful New York Times journalist who wrote the pieces in support of the Iraq War. Judy Miller. Judy Miller. She plays like kind of a Judy. Yeah, Judith Miller. I don't know whether she's Judy or Judith. She's Judith. Okay. I don't think that Judith Miller had a gun though. She has a series of showdowns with Tom Cruise. Also in 2008 is Doubt and then 2009 is Julie and Julia and it's complicated just to continue the box office. That's an amazing stretch. You don't have guns in any of those. Forget about the gun question. That's not important. If you just replace Angelina Jolie with Meryl Streep in the film Wanted, is it better? which one is wanted the one with James McAvoy where she comes in she's like a secret society assassin oh I remember this one yes sure okay let's do this with salt Meryl Streep salt you know what Meryl does have like a regal Russian quality to it like you could see her in the in the head of course and also if you needed to do any flashbacks then you have one of the many Gummer daughters who are also actresses who could credibly play her. That's right. Yeah, there you go. And then Wanted 2 is solved if you need to do a prequel. Set it right up. Yeah. I mean Salt 2, excuse me. Meryl Streep is hard to talk about. It's kind of like talking about Coca-Cola on a warm summer day. It's like, just good. Just always good. Well, the movies are not always good. Is she good in this? Disgust. I think it's an interesting conversation. I think she's doing her absolute best singing, and half the song performances are good and half are bad. I would say that she's... I guess she is doing her best singing. She's not a great singer. She keeps doing this. Obviously, then she does Florence Foster Jenkins. She does Into the Woods. Yes. She does... Florence Foster Jenkins is so funny, though, because it's kind of a riff on how she can't really sing that well. You know, like, that's kind of the gag of the movie. Here's why this works. Mary Poppins Returns? Yeah, that didn't go well. this works because she's having fun and you can feel it while watching her it doesn't really matter if she's like hitting the note in the ABBA song no one's listening to ABBA that's what I was trying to think of Jonathan Demme that's a beautiful movie then she's playing there like a Chrissy Hines style like rock front woman she loves music she loves to sing is she good yeah she's good the whole movie is operating it's kind of orbiting the idea of camp it's not campy there's nothing inherently campy about ABBA but there is like a kind of drag quality to so much of what's happening with the older characters in the film even with Julie Walters and Christine Baranski they're kind of operating in this this like it's like Rocky Horror Picture Show for people who like to go to Cabo to full service resorts is there something really Oh, you're above full surface. I like Cabo. If anyone is listening, I'm available. You will make yourself a hotel influencer yet. I know. You're doing your damnedest. I just don't know. That's why I bring up this idea of good versus bad and the binary of it is just an impossibility with a movie like this. Well, I don't think that this is a movie where it's so bad that it's good, you know, which is often a category that many, many people enjoy. And not an idea I believe in. You and I don't like it. You and I don't respond to it. This movie is doing, with the possible exception of, you know, some of the camera work and everything that happens. The blocking is so bad. Like, in every scene, I'm like, why is the camera here? You know, and you built a whole villa in order to be able to put the camera wherever you want, and you're in Pinewood, and you seem have a lot of budget. So I don't get it. But with the exception of that, the movie is doing what it wants to be doing. And I think the performances are what they want to be. They're not... It's not that it's bad. Or it is bad, but it's not unintentional. Yeah, I feel like they do know what they're doing, right? There's not a confusion about what kind of a movie it is. I love in the closing credits when they do a song over the credits and then do another song over the credits. There's a kind of like, you don't even want this to end you just want to keep glugging rosé while this movie goes on and on and on and plays another song. Arguably the highest point of the movie is the credit sequence when they've stripped away all pretense of trying to tell a story and it's Meryl and Christine Maransky and Julie Walters first in like full 70s ABBA disco gear and then the men come in too even more amped up in their bell bottoms for Waterloo which is so funny and they're all you know like to introduce Waterloo it's like Meryl kind of like half drunk at the camera being like you want one more having a great time it is they're just doing karaoke with like great lighting and like on a music video set and you're like yeah I would probably if they did three more songs I would watch them I just saw a note that you left in the outline which is it's very interesting that Fernando is not included in this movie and they just at some point we're gonna have to watch Mamma Mia 2. Oh, Fernando. Have I never told you how Fernando... No, I know. Everybody on Letterboxd was like, this movie actually stinks, but 2 is like crack, like it's so good. So now I feel like I have to watch 2. 2 and the way that Fernando is used in 2 is breathtaking. Okay, great. It is on and I won't say anymore. It's easily the number one song where I was like, what are they gonna do Fernando? Yeah. Well, I like, I think I maybe did start applauding at the Arklight like alone when Fernando showed up. It's really, and I've definitely, by the way, told you what happens before on a podcast and you don't retain any of this information. No knowledge of it, yeah. I'm emotionally detecting, but not informationally detecting. Anyway, I would like to do karaoke with all of these people. It seems really fun. That's just a perfect way to kind of snapshot what the movie is, is it's just like really fun karaoke with actors that you enjoy. It's just not a bad idea for a movie, and maybe there should be other movies like this. You know, we get a lot of self-serious rock star biopics. Yeah. But the reason that Queen was so successful is because people were like, I want to fucking hear Queen songs in a movie theater. Yeah. I want to know what it was like to be alive. Rhapsody. What did I say? You said Queen. Sorry. Bohemian Rhapsody. Yeah. Was so successful because of the songs and because of this, you know, portrayal of this band who we have a big relationship to. Abba, very similar. I know. I guess this is Michael is going to be like this. Michael is going to be. It's not going to have any sense of humor. Right. But it's a biopic. It's not. The last one that is about this is that it has nothing to do with that. I still don't know all the names of the Abba people. No, neither do I. And I don't know what they're up to. I don't know if they're living or dead. Should we call them? I don't know. Will they answer? I don't know. They're in Sweden. I feel like they have a lot of money. Yeah, I bet they do. Good for them. Yeah. So I don't. I just know the music. and the song the movie just uses the music and like a funny and not hagiographic way you know it has fun with the music too it's like these are silly if you could do your own mama mia what country and what artist oh okay well the location is such a huge part of this but i guess there's no reason it's great right that's true other than that's where they want to be uh what country i can say that in terms of that part of the movie yeah it's top shelf like abba in greece yeah i don't think you could have done better in terms of who the target audience for the movie was i mean i'm just thinking of like other mediterranean islands at this point you know i'm it's like if it ain't broke don't fix it um music wise what would i do I gotta tell you I really have been hitting like Rihanna radio on Spotify recently and having the time of my life. Rihanna is an artist who would be very good for this because every song is a party. That's kind of the vibe that you need So Rihanna like in Sicily like where do you want to go? No I mean I guess if we're doing Rihanna then you do Barbados right? Oh wow. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah. We should just develop this movie. That's a golden idea. I'm going to put that in the back of my mind. Okay, you have a very important question at the end of this conversation. Now it's time to play. And this movie ends. Honestly, this movie has more balls than The Strangers because in the sense that there is no resolution. We don't know. The movie does not confirm who the father is. This movie understands that the greatest fear and the greatest power lies in not knowing. Yes. I understand that people just want to play who's the father. like Maury Povich understood before me. So now it's time. Do you know who the father is? Is there a definitive truth? So Lydia Lloyd and Catherine Johnson have shared their opinions of who it is. Oh, it's one of those. I only learned this yesterday. Yeah, but I would like to know what you think. I only learned this yesterday and I don't know whether I agree. I feel that Occam's razor is Pierce Brosnan. Yeah, of course. I've always assumed. So I just as a logical person. Yeah, I will go. He gets the most backstory. He gets the most clarification of connectivity. Right. To Meryl Streep's character. You just kind of buy that it's him, even if you don't know. And he also is just so like over the moon for her that it makes you more like comfortable with that idea. And also he's very invested in the idea of giving away his daughter. and he's very interested in that. And so like, you're kind of, right. Kind of rooting for that. I don't know. Were you rooting for it when you were watching the movie? You're supposed to be rooting for it because ultimately they were the, they were in love and it was like their missed connection or whatever. And, and they wind up getting married. What's the story when he's explaining how his wife married him to confirm that he was a fool, even though he went back for the woman that he loved. I had some notes about that little line of dialogue. What was it? this woman was going to ruin her life to prove that her husband to be was an idiot. I mean, I think that just has like a little bit of like divorced aftertaste, you know, um, that it's like, he's doesn't think very highly of the decision making process that either of them went through. And also I think they probably said rude things to each other for 20 years. I had an amazing conversation with Eileen after this movie where I was like, where are you at on Pierce? Yeah. Cause she's not a big bond person. You know, he's still very active making a lot of movies. He was just in Thursday Murder Club. And I was like, what do you think about him? And she was like, well, he's obviously incredibly handsome, but he's not my style of handsome. And she said, I also just don't think he would be interesting. Oh. Which I thought was a unique way of taking out Pierce Brosnan. Yeah. But does she know that he lived like outside Hanalei for like 25 years on the north shore of Kauai? No, we loved that place too. Yeah. He was like there forever. and you would see him yeah i do think he sold the place like fairly recently where's he where's he now um i don't know he also has like a hundred million dollar property in malibu or something i didn't i haven't checked on that in a couple years it's weird that you know this well the hanalei thing it's like he's very open about it so if you ever go hanalei bay is one of the most beautiful places i've ever been on vacation in my entire life and if you're googling like would recommend it to anyone what to do in hanalei they're like maybe you'll see pierce Brosnan at the coffee shop so he's he became sort of like an ambassador he's been photographed there etc and then I think when I was googling Pierce Brosnan Hanalei the other absolutely insane like hundred million dollar like spread in Malibu came up and there's like a lot of architectural you know he's done a lot of architectural digest which is how I know this okay uh shout out to Kristen Stewart debuting her purchase of the Highland Highland Park Theater in architectural Dieders. Amazing stuff. I'm so excited. I drive by it all day. It's five minutes from my house. Yeah, I know. That's our preferred home state across the street. It's so crushing when that place closed, even though it was not a very good movie theater when it was open. I saw a Super Mario Brothers movie there with a bunch of children and many mice, so it needed some work. It needs work, but it's so cool that she's coming in and buying that movie theater, which for us is extremely local. Yeah, okay, so you know a lot about this. Who's the father? I'll just say I think it's Pierce Brosnan. So I also thought it was Pierce Brosnan And what I learned is that the director and screenwriter think that it's Stellan Skarsgård. And the reason they think that is then... That's super Swedish sperm. Well, and also because then he has like a Swedish, you know, he's Swedish, so Sophie has a connection to the music of ABBA. That was their reasoning. I thought that was really stupid, but then I was thinking about it. But that assumes that the world of the movie knows that the ABBA songs are being sung. Like, that's such a weird thing to say. I didn't say that. But then if you think about the order, I believe that according to the diary, the chain of events was Pierce Brosnan, Bill, Harry. So Pierce Brosnan, Selen Skarsgård, Colin Firth, and then she realized she was pregnant. So you have to assume. So if those are all before she realized she's pregnant, so that's all in one cycle, right? And so the middle person is going to be the closest to ovulation. So it probably does scientifically make sense. This has been Amanda's science quarter. I mean, incredible work by you. Thank you. I've had a lot of schooling on that particular science. I do just want to say that at the end of the day, one, I do care what you think, but I do not care what the director and screenwriter think because they didn't write this musical. This is adapted from a musical. Well, who the person who wrote the musical should tell us who the father is. If such information is available, is that not revealed? I'm Googling as fast as I can. Okay. Well, Katherine Johnson also wrote the musical. Oh, okay. So let's see. Yeah. So she can decide. And I think it's different. I don't think that the Bill character is Swedish in the play. Oh. Let's see. Oh, my God. This is just like a long list of people who have played that. Okay. This is a tremendous amount of Googling from you in this episode. He explains that he always loved her and years ago had ended his own engagement only to find Donna had gone off with another man, Bill. So yet another, just kind of scientifically speaking. But it doesn't seem that they reveal it. No. But the Waterloo is a part of the encore, the Waterloo performance. Okay. And the stage musical. Well, thanks for sharing this movie with me. I'm glad that I watched it. I liked it. I had fun. Yeah. I do understand why it's a phenomenon. Yeah, and now you know more about the world. I do. I would never be like, how dare you like a movie this stupid? That makes no sense. It's a movie that obviously gives people joy. I'm kind of intrigued by 2, though I have no... This is not like a Infinity War Endgame situation for me, where I'm like, I need to know what happens next. If I never see it, I'll die happy. Can I tell you, it's both a prequel and a sequel. I kind of hate that. It's really overloaded. Someone's playing young Meryl? Who's playing young Meryl? Lily James. and they're in London and they're doing Donna and the Dynamos. They're a little like music group. So she does like a lot of performances. And then I don't remember what happened to watch this this weekend. Yeah. I mean, they had to make it. Mama Mia. Here we go again was sitting there waiting for them. I was also thinking about how you could put here we go again is like the, the subtitle of many films and just make them much funnier, you know, just like fast X colon. Here we go again. Like that would just, it just makes everything funnier. Should we call this movie swap? Here we go again. yeah we need the film titles in there i know it's not good seo but it's good to play right dead though as we just learned from all this googling that you did it doesn't work anymore i know it's fucking cratering the industry it's true any final thoughts about this movie um i it does feel like you're a little more up to date with at least what was going on in 2008 if not the world at large so that's good i feel good i feel like we've completed a part of your education Well, thanks for bringing me on the journey. That concludes this episode. So next week. Yeah. Interesting episode. I mentioned that we'll kind of watch the Super Bowl, at least for the trailers. We always talk about the trailers after that because they kind of roll out event movies for the rest of the year. We're going to the DGAs. We are. So you and I have never been to an award show together. And I thought that this would be an exciting anthropological experience for us. How are you feeling about that? I'm excited. Me too. You know, parents night out. That's right. Crazy Saturday. We got to talk about parking. I was thinking of Ubering. Okay, well, then you can come pick me up on the way. We can carpool. Yeah, you can pick me up, but sure. Okay, that's fine. And then I feel good. I have my outfits ready. Mine is as well. Okay, good. And dry cleaned. Oh, good. Yeah, I'm feeling good. I think the idea here will be, sure, we'll talk about the results of the show. But sort of like, what does the show like this feel like? Because we don't usually operate the way that so many Oscar pundits do, where they're like attending events and meeting and greeting. And, you know, what's the vibe in the room? I'm personally not very interested in that. Yeah. But I am interested in directors. And I also like that this show is not televised. And so I'm curious if we get a different kind of energy. So, yeah, that'll be next week. You excited? Yeah. Okay. Thanks to Jack Sanders for his production work on this episode. And we'll see you soon. Thank you.