Pet Candy Radio

Can Kelly Kulhavy the Vet Receptionist Outsmart Cat Daddy? Listen and find out!

30 min
Dec 4, 20256 months ago
Listen to Episode
Summary

Pet Candy Radio hosts Clay and Caitlin Palmer interview Kelly, a veterinary receptionist and VRCE program graduate, in a trivia game show format testing feline knowledge. The episode covers cat facts, Kelly's three cats and their adoption stories, and highlights the importance of veterinary reception professionals in the industry.

Insights
  • Veterinary reception is a specialized profession with formal certification programs (VRCE) requiring 40+ hours of continuing education, elevating the role's credibility in veterinary medicine
  • Pet adoption from shelters and workplace referrals remains common among veterinary professionals, often driven by compassion and professional connections
  • Cat behavior and sensory perception differ significantly from dogs (fewer taste buds, superior hearing/smell), requiring tailored care approaches that pet owners often misunderstand
  • Professional organizations like NAVER provide community, education, and advocacy specifically for veterinary reception staff, addressing industry-wide recognition gaps
  • Informal pet naming conventions (food-based names) and behavioral preferences reveal how pet owners personalize care and bonding with their animals
Trends
Professionalization of veterinary reception roles through formal certification and continuing education programsGrowth of professional associations and communities dedicated to veterinary support staff recognition and developmentIncreased focus on cat behavior and sensory science in pet care education and veterinary practiceSocial media as a platform for veterinary professionals to share expertise and build community (TikTok, etc.)Workplace adoption and rescue culture among veterinary professionals as a norm rather than exceptionPet parent education on species-specific care needs (temperature, diet, sensory preferences) becoming more accessibleEmphasis on mental health and work-life balance in veterinary medicine through community support networks
Topics
Veterinary Receptionist Certificate of Excellence (VRCE) ProgramCat sensory perception and taste buds vs. dogsFeline behavior and body language interpretationShelter rescue and pet adoption practicesVeterinary reception professional developmentCat nutrition and dietary preferencesPet owner education on species-specific careNorth American Association of Veterinary Receptionists (NAVER)Feline health conditions (kidney disease, lactose intolerance)Cat breed characteristics and geneticsProfessional community building in veterinary medicineSocial media engagement for veterinary professionalsPet wellness and behavioral trainingWorkplace culture in veterinary clinicsExotic pet care (African cichlids)
Companies
Ignite Veterinary
Provider of the Veterinary Receptionist Certificate of Excellence (VRCE) program that Kelly completed in 2023
People
Kelly
Veterinary receptionist since 2011, VRCE graduate, NAVER President's Advisory Council member, guest contestant on the...
Clay Palmer
Co-host of Pet Candy Radio and Cat Daddy game show, veterinary professional who completed VRCE program
Caitlin Palmer
Co-host of Pet Candy Radio and Cat Daddy game show, veterinary professional and cat enthusiast
Quotes
"You know your cat's normal behavior better than anyone, quarks and all. But if your cat is acting differently, it may be time to talk to your vet."
Selensia advertisementEarly in episode
"The VRCE program is the veterinary receptionist certificate of excellence program. It's 40 hours of continuing education for receptionists so we can get a certificate and show that we matter to the rest of the veterinary world."
KellyMid-episode
"He's just a big boy. Yes. He pictures them. I'll hand them. I call him my dog cat. He plays fetch."
KellyWhen discussing Chips
"You can't just get one because it was chips and salsa. You can't split them up."
KellyDiscussing cat adoption
"So Kelly and I actually met through NAVER, which is the North American Association of Veterinary Receptionists because we're veterinary professionals and we matter to."
Clay PalmerEpisode conclusion
Full Transcript
You're listening to Pet Candy. This show is brought to you by ZOEDAS. We'll be right back with more Pet Candy. What's considered normal for your cat is interesting. You know your cat's normal behavior better than anyone, quarks and all. But if your cat is acting differently, it may be time to talk to your vet about Selensia for an event-mavenjection. Changes in your cat's everyday behavior could mean they need help getting back to their quirky self. Ask your vet about how you could help your cat get back to their normal, whatever that means for them. Visit Selensia.com to learn more. Welcome back to Cat Daddy, the only games show where the points don't matter, the meows are mandatory, and someone here is wearing cat socks. Spoiler, it's me! And I'm Clay Palmer, joined by a cat who just stared at me until I refilled her bowl. Classic emotional manipulation. I'm Caitlin Palmer, coming to you live from the corner of my couch when my cats allow me to sit. Sometimes. Today's guest is Kelly, who's been in veterinary medicine since 2011 when she completed her certification as a veterinary assistant. She has since transitioned to her current role in reception. Kelly strives for excellence and has gone above and beyond in her quest for knowledge. She holds a seat on the President's Advisory Council for the North American Association of Veterinary Receptionist. She is also a lead ambassador for Ignite's Veterinary Receptionist Certificate of Excellence Program, which she completed in 2023. In her spare time, whatever that is, Kelly reaches for creative outlets such as knitting, crocheting, spinning, and dying yarn, reading and writing. She also runs a busy household full of her furry and fend companions. Kelly has two dogs, three cats, that's my girl, and her fish, African Mumbunas. Welcome, Kelly. Thank you for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. We're really excited. You do a lot of stuff. I know you made it sound way more impressive than I feel like it is. So I know our bio is weird because it makes it sound like you did all of this stuff yesterday. And that's not how it works. It's a great, that's not true, but you have done all these things. You have done all these things. So if it sounds larger than life, that's your fault. Stop being so good, Kelly. The virtue of her. Yeah, and so I know from doing VRCE myself, wow, that's awesome. Yeah. Like a superstar. It's a lot. Like I didn't, when I took it, I didn't think it was going to be as in depth as it was, but it covered a lot of things. It is. Yeah, like you got to like run like transcribe for CPR and stuff. It's cool. Like you aren't all kinds of stuff. For the listeners at home, do you want to kind of briefly tell us what what VRCE is? Yeah. So the VRCE program is the veterinary receptionist certificate of excellence program. It's 40 hours of continuing education for receptionists so we can get a certificate and show that we matter to the rest of the veterinary world. I feel that. It took me way longer than 40 hours to do my favorite. It took me a good eight months. Oh gosh, yes, because it's like I would go hard and work on it for a while and then it would be like life happens. But then we do it. And it's great. Tell me about these fish. So they're African sick lids. Yeah, they're colorful freshwater fish is the best way to put it. They're yellow orange, black and yellow, blue and black. They like to live in caves. Oh, same. Yeah. You like to live in a cave. I like to live in a cave. In a dark place that our house is too light and you said it is not light at all. Right. It's not that light. Also, it's hot and it's probably nice and cool in a cave right now. That's true. Let's go to a cave. Let's move to a cave. So, you know, of course, we talked a little bit about fish. But the real reason we're here are cats. So tell us what is the greatest animal and why is it a cat? Um, greatest animal. That is a cat. You know, I really like snow leopards. Today was National Snow Leper day. Yes, but they're just cute. They are. They're little too. Well, they're not little, but they're not as big as you think they are. I guess when I think snow leopard, I was thinking of like a spotted bobcat, but that's not quite right. I mean, yes, they're similar. Yeah, they have a tail though. Right. A long tail. They're probably bigger than a bobcat, but they probably kill you just as easily. No, they're big. Look, it's full disclosure. If I ever meet one, I'm booping it and then I'm going to try to kiss it. And they're going to be like, Kate, when get out of there, you're going to die. And I'm going to be like, no, I would 100% boop it. Yeah. Right. Oh gosh. Yes. Well, I'm just letting both of y'all know that leopard's main way of killing is to bite the back of the neck to sever the spinal cord. And you're alive. Well, you're big to my heart. If that's how I'm going to go, that's how I'm going to go. And that's how I go. That's how I go. That's how I go. As long as you're fine with it, like, I'll be like, do you want my delicious? I think they have the strongest bite force out of all the all the cats. I don't know. I think Jaguar has had the strongest bite force. Not sure. That could be apocryphal, but I'm pretty sure they have the strongest bite force of cats. Love it. Love it. Alrighty. Are you ready, Kelly? I'm ready. Let's do this. Round one. Fact or fluff? We'll give you some... There's not a wheel there. We give you some fantastic feline facts. You tell us if they're legit or if we're full of kitty litter. True or false? Cats have fewer taste buds than dogs. I'm going to say true. True is correct. Dogs have about 1700 taste buds. But cats only have 470. But, hey, less flavor doesn't mean less drama. Number two, most cats are lactose intolerant, true or false. True. True. Despite cute images, milk often gives them tummy troubles, stick with water or tuna juice if you're feeling fancy. Number three, cats can rotate their ears 270 degrees. True. Don't you nod at our contestant. I have to figure out my cat moving her ear. I know. It's like what? My old cat back here. Right? That is true. They have 32 muscles per ear and they have a full swivel. Try sneaking a snack. Just try. Round two, moving up. I don't know if that's for some. Miao-ving up. It's moving on up. So, moving on up. Round two, meow. These are record breaking, history making, totally real cats. Let's see if you can guess who made headlines. All right, Kelly. These are going to be multiple choice questions. We're going to give you three options and you tell us which one you think is correct. Number one, which cat starred in over 100 films in the silent movie era? Pepper paws, the felon chaplain, orangey, who had more credits than most actors, or pepper, a studio train tabby with a flair for drama. I'm going to go A. I think. The answer is actually B, orangey. He was a true Hollywood star, even won awards, and he probably demanded tuna in his contract. I hope they gave that baby some tuna. Although in the silent movie era, it was probably still black and white, so you probably couldn't tell it was orange. True. Which means his name would have seemed to really strange. I wonder if he was in the credits. As orangey? Yeah. Probably. I hope so. I choose to believe he was. Number two, what's the oldest recorded age for a cat? A. 22, old enough to judge your life choices. B. 38, basically a cat vampire. Or C. 30, with nine lives used very, very sparingly. B. B is correct. 38 years old. Kreme Puff from Texas lived from 1967 to 2005. Probably drank from the water bowl of eternal youth. Question number three. What's the loudest per on record? A. 42 decibels. A. S. M. R. But fluffier. B. 50 decibels. Same as a dishwasher. Or C. 67 decibels, which is louder than a vacuum. C. C is correct. Correct. 67 decibels. And that was a cat named Merlin from the UK. Loud enough to be heard through walls. Imagine that at 3 a.m. I'd be worried about the cat. Yeah. I don't think it's supposed to do that or your phone's okay. I've certainly heard meows that loud, but I don't think I've ever heard a per anywhere close to that. Yeah. Yeah. Perseurs like soft and sweet. Usually. Sure. But in this case, the neighbors probably yelled at Merlin a lot. Oh, they probably did. Well, you know what the freaking neighbors can deal with it. I guess you're really going to get mad at a cat for purring too loudly. I don't care if it does do minor ear damage. Stop being so adorable. Round three. The lightning round. Per or panic. Answer fast or risk the wrath of the vacuum cleaner. Question one. What's a cat's normal body temperature? A, 98.6, B, 101.5, or C, 105. B. B is correct. They run hotter than us, probably from judging us constantly. Full disclosure to pet parents, your cat's temperature should never be 105. That's bad. That's really bad. That's really bad. That's really bad. That's really bad. Pretty high. Number two, how many toes does a typical cat have? A, 16, B, 18, or C, 20? It's 18, isn't it? That is correct. They have five on each front wall, four on each back, unless they're polydactyl, and then that's just chaos. Yeah, that number can go anywhere. I love the polydactyls that look like they have two feet, like they have so many toes. Right, they like to eat these. Yes, I love the toebeens. Yes, me too. I was playing with a kitten the other day, and I was like, you have spots on your toebeens. And then they were like, Caitlin, get back to work. And I was like, this is stupid. This place is a prison. This place is a prison. Question three. What's the technical term for a cat's whiskers? And I believe this was actually on the VRC. A, whiskers, B, the brisier, or C, Sniffsticks. It's B, right? Yeah. It's Sniffsticks. Yeah, it's B. I just want to have Mark you down a point before you've enlisted. I guess this is a good way. I do like Sniffsticks, so that's really good. I said, I'm calling them for now. Canonically in the Palmer House, they are Sniffsticks. Sniffsticks. They're high-tech navigation tools. NASA take notes. Rapid fire. Shout your answers fast. No cat naps allowed. So, Kelly, these are open-ended. So I'm just going to ask you a question and you just tell me the answer. It can be right. Give me wrong. Don't stress about it. Just what's the first thing that comes to you? Yeah, I was going to say, in fact, don't think about it. Yeah, don't think about it. Just go for it. Gotcha. The music hole was based on a T.S. Eliot book. Cats. Yes. Number 13, what ancient culture worshiped cats? Egyptians. Correct. Number 14. Which cat breed is hairless? Spinks. Right? Yes. Okay. I thought you were going to say a hairless cat. I was going to say she's technically not wrong. Don't you dot my cat. We can't do it. Bunker points. Heraless cat, in fact, does not have hair. And what without a piece? Spinks. Spinks. That's a pretty good name for a cat. Oh my gosh, if we ever get another spanks, let's name it Spanks. Spanks. Which part of the cat is as sensitive as a fingertip? Nose. The answer is actually whiskers. Nose is our pretty sensitive. You were very close. They're close. Like very close. Like, yeah. Relatively. Physically very close to each other. Relatively close. Number 16. What does a cat use to mark its territory? Oh, it's little glands in its mouth. Yes, the sit glands. Fun fact. Yeah. Our urine. I hope you say urine would have been good. Just screaming at the top of your lungs is the word piss. Piss. Piss. What is the fear of cats called? Oh gosh. Fear of cats. Sephobia. I have no idea. Alurophobia. So an allurifile is someone who's loved cats. Oh, so it's allurrophobia. So, allurrophobia. Yeah. Interesting. My arttonymesis. That cats are referred to as allur. What is the name of one of Taylor Swift's cats? Oh gosh. I don't know. I honestly don't know. It's okay. I was just going to be like Fred because I don't know. Right. The question was actually typed out specifically like what is the name of Taylor Swift's cat as in singular but I suppose she has multiples. Yes, three. Yes. So anyone would have survived. I suppose. I only know one and it's because the name is right in front of me. Question 19. Can cats taste sweetness? Yes. No. Then why do we flavor stuff with marshmallows? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe they can't taste it but they can smell it. So this is a thing that I was going to bring up earlier about the cats having less taste buds. A lot of their olfactory senses are done through their nose. So that's why they do the stink face. It's not necessarily when something stinks. It's when they are processed. They're like tasting a smell. They're like tasting the smell. It's still really funny though when they sniff something stinky and then go. Yes, so they can't taste but they can smell really good. So I think it's more about the smell than the taste. Do you think since they can't taste the sweetness in the marshmallow maybe what it mixes in their canned food or their true or whatever maybe it maybe it's just easier to get them to take it that way? I don't know. It just adds a different stink to the stink concoction. I've always said like chicken or stinky fish. Yeah. Like the stinkiest, nastiest fish. That's why like if you're trying to get your cat to eat you warm it up in the microwave a bit to make it stink more. Right. And they're like ooh. Ooh, this smells just like garbage. I'd love to. Don't mind if I do. Number 20. Which direction do cats prefer their food bowls to face? West. Don't. I like that answer. The correct answer is toward an open room. They like to see you when they eat. Really? I didn't know that. I've always been feeding cats out of corners. I've been doing the exact opposite of what they do. Yeah. Because well, I put it up somewhere where the dogs don't get it. So we kind of put it in a corner. So they don't like scoot it around. Right. I didn't think I was punishing the cat by doing it. We literally put maybe in a corner. You put maybe in a corner. Oh, our poor babies. I know someone who's getting some treats. Maybe they like it best when we just put a bag of cat food on the kitchen table. And they just eat off of that. Number 21. What was the first cat in space called? Sputnik. I have no idea. I don't know how to pronounce his name. This is very French. Phyllisette? Sputnik the dog. Oh, the dog. Oh. Phyllisette was a straight, a Parisian. Parisian cat who became the first and only felon to travel to space on October 18th, 1963. Part of the French space program. Maybe Laker. Laker was the dog. But unlike Laker, she came back. Oh, good. Launched on a suborbitable flight, a suborbitable flight, and survived the journey and returned to Earth safely. Oh, thank God. I spoke to him though she was euthanized two months later for scientific study. What the? Who? Who did? Who did? Yeah, so it wasn't even like she suffered a fax they just in the name of science. I want that scientist's name and their descendants. And I'm going to send them a glitter bomb. Yes, because they're probably not here anymore, but their family's getting a glitter bomb. They're getting a bag of cat shit out of the litter box. A litter bomb. Yeah, a litter bomb. But it's just a box of litter, but there's a little lever and a platformer. It sends it all over your freaking house. But like it's not even good litter. Like it's like the really powdery, like dusty nasty litter. Yeah. The cheapest cat litter you can find in a dollar store. Cat litter. Yeah. It's a little tiny turds in it. All right. So this is a lightning round and either or this is where there are no right or wrong answers. We kind of jumped the gun with that last one. So don't think about these. Just fire off the cuff. Are you ready? I'm ready. All right. Playful kitten or calm adult cat. Playful kitten. Cuddly lap cat or independent explorer lap cat. Talkative cat or quiet cat. Quiet cat. Morning zoomies or midnight zoomies. Morning zoomies. Love's belly rubs or hates belly rubs. Love's belly rubs. Always following you are watching from afar. Always following me. Preferers humans or prefers other cats. Perfure? Oh wow. Perfurs other cats. Perfurs. Perfurs. Perfurs. Perfurs. Perfurs. Curious about everything or scared of new things. Curious about everything. Love's water or avoids it at all costs. Love's water. Sleeps on your pillow or in their own bed. On my pillow. I know I read that that means I think you're their mom. So sweet. The face of my life mate. So we're always slept right here. So Kelly, tell us about your kiddies. We want to know their names, their stories. How did you get them? What do they look like? Obviously we get to see them because we're on a Zoom meeting. But our listeners can't. So we need to know about your cats. Okay. I have three cats. Yeah. Yeah. My oldest cat is chips. He is six. He is an orange and white tabby. He is a hefty 15 pounds. He's just a big boy. Like he's a smidge and overweight. But he's off the hook. He's just a big boy. He's just a big cat. Yes. He pictures them. I'll hand them. I call him my dog cat. He plays fetch. I know. He plays fetch. He knows his name. I'm trying to train him to be on a leash to walk with the dogs because he wants to go outside. But I live on a very busy street. So it's not safe. He loves belly rubs. He loves anything new. He loves the dogs, the cats, the fish. We had rats for a while. He was very... Like, not... I'm going to eat the rats. But like, what's this? Can it be friends with him? Will it groom me? Yeah. He's very much... He's going to come because he's going to hear his name. But he's very much... The dog cat. Yeah. Yeah. So he actually... There was a... So I got him from my coworker. But he was out of shelter that was closing and he... Him and his brother, which I also took as a brother. His name was salsa, but unfortunately he passed away from kidney disease a couple years ago. Yeah. So... Anyways, my... Oh, my God, they were salsa and chips. Yeah, chips and salsa. Stop it. Yeah. My daughter. They went. My daughter named all of our cats. So... Yeah. He came to... He came to me from that shelter closing. My coworker was like, hey, you want some cats? And I finally talked to my kin to him. And then... He told me one. And I conveniently brought home two. Well, I couldn't just get one because it was chips and salsa. Oh, yeah. You can't split them up. He needed a friend. What if he got bored? Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, you can't just have chips or just have salsa. Right. You have to have both. Right. And then... Let's see. We got Keso next. Keso was born at... Yeah. Keso was born at the clinic. He is... Let's see if chips is six. Keso is four. Sorry. Math is hard. Math is hard. This is why we work the front desk. Yeah. There is no shame. So Keso is my... We're gonna... We'll call him. Say me. Say me. Say me. Say me. Say me. Say me. Say me. Say me. I don't know what he is because his bar cat special. But his... His technical color is lilac links point. He's beautiful. He's a gorgeous cat. I'm surprised he's not in here. Because anytime I do a meeting or anything, he feels like he needs to supervise. He was in here earlier. He was showing his butt. Was he... Yeah, we did get the seas of cat today. We have to see the butt. Yeah. It was great. No, we love it. We live for it. He is my special cat. Yeah. He's... Yeah. He can look in two different rooms at the same time. Oh. Oh, well then he probably assigns. Yeah. He is very cuddly. He needs to be by me 24-7. He sleeps on top of me. He gets lost in the house and he bellows. Oh. Keso, come here. He don't know where to look. Okay. He's like, where is everybody at? Baby. He just brought him home. I was like, this kid looks cool. I'm going to take him home. So that's how I got him. I got nothing wrong with that. Yeah. We had another Simeez cat. That was a flamethrower. His name was Cheesecake. Cheesecake died from a 5P. Cheesecake passed away and then literally two days later, my same coworker, her mom found a kitten underneath her deck and she brought it to the clinic. This kitten stuck its whole nose up one nostril of mine. I was like, oh, okay. We're bonded. That kitten stayed at the clinic for two days and it was Christmas Eve and I finally was like, I'll just take her home. Can we just triple test her, make sure she doesn't have anything. I'll take her home. So I truly think that Cheesecake set her name is Orange Marmalade. Orange Marmalade to us. Harper, yeah. Harper named them all after food. Harper has fantastic naming abilities. Yes, pretty good. It's really good. I don't think any of our cats have, they don't have food names. None of our pets have food names. Well, there's Chrome. Oh, we do have Chrome. Kind of food. I was being, okay. So this kitten was so tiny and like he didn't grow for two weeks straight, like not even out. So I was bringing him to work and weighing him every day. And like, you know how they're born with their claws out and then they like retract. They just stayed out. He was just stunted, just would not grow. And we're fostering him for the shelter. And I was telling my friend about him and she's like, you know, we really don't have the resources for a cat like that. And so we were like, we'll keep him. And I was being, I was being a smart ass and I told her I named him Neri a breadcrumb. And she put Neri a breadcrumb on his adoption. So his, his Christian name is Neri a breadcrumb. Right. He's Chrome and pretty much immediately after we adopted him officially, he began to grow. He just started growing a normal cat. Now he's really fat. So yeah. So now his name, Chrome means more like not a crumb. He doesn't leave a crumb. That boy eat. That boy eat that boy eat. Maybe our second fat is cat. Honestly, though. That's okay. Orange is my worst cat. She's, so she's two. She's just an orange tabby. But she broke my pantry to, yeah, she broke the pantry doors off the track. She broke our trash can. Oh gosh. Orange, Marmalade, you better watch it. She has since become very cuddly and is now probably my favorite of the bunch. I don't tell her that because I don't want there to be going to inflate more than it is. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So do they share the brain cell? Orange cat brain cell? I would say no. You did look off camera as if to meet eyes with the cat and be like, certainly there's something in there, right? She's beautiful. She doesn't need to be smart. She's beautiful. That's a female orange cat. That's pretty uncommon for an orange cat. It's fairly uncommon, yeah. She, maybe her in case so share a brain cell. No. Right. Chips is pretty smart. She also likes to play fetch. Orange will also play fetch. But she does not come when you call her because she could care less. Well, Kelly, you have successfully completed cat daddy. How does it feel? Great. So Kelly, this is the part of the show where we ask you to share your any social media, any followings, anything you would like to share with our audience. This is also the part where as legend foretells, I will always follow you. So please do tell. Sure. So I'm on TikTok. A lot of my TikTok videos are receptionist based. I'm Kel of a zoo on TikTok. It's amazing. You want to spell it and just spell it, of course. It's K-E-L-L-O-F-A-Z-O-O. I spelled it right. Right. Yeah, I think so. I'm pulling off like that. I'll figure it out. So what are those things that I'm like, uh-uh. Well, of the nine questions that you were being graded on, you actually scored 11 points with all your bonus points in play. So that makes you the current reigning cat daddy trivia champ. How does it feel now that you've clawed your way to the top? Amazing. And I'm doing something. I feel accomplished. Right. Yes. Do I get a trophy? I will send you something. We will mail you a trophy. I will not specify when it will be or what the trophy will look like or what substance the trophy will be made of. It won't be a litter bomb. It's pretty that happy. I mail you a jacket preloaded with cat turrets. Oh, God. So Kelly and I actually met through NAVER, which is the North American Association of Veterinary Receptionists because we're veterinary professionals and we matter to. Yes. Yes. And it's a whole thing built for receptionists. They're working on education access, some toolbox resources, community for us, by us. All type of good things. Yeah. It's really, really awesome. So all veterinary CSRs, please check us out. It's navver.org in A-A-V-R. And we're very cat friendly. And if you join our NAVER circle, you can see pictures of my little guy almost every day. Thank you for coming on the show. I hope you had fun. I did. Thank you. Thank you so much, Kelly. It was so good to see you. Thank you. It's Pet Candy. It's Pet Candy Radio.