Keri Hilson

Blowing out budget or metrics that look great till the CFO sees them. That's bull spend. And marketers are calling it out in... Dashboard Confessions! I remember telling my boss, it'll be good for the brand when leads were slow. Yeah, it wasn't. Cut the bull spend. LinkedIn lets you target by company, job title and more. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend 200 pounds on your first campaign and get a 200 pound credit. Go to linkedin.com slash lead. Terms and conditions apply. Hey, what's up gang? This is part two of the Kerry Hillsome Conversation. Now you're probably wondering, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where's part one? Well, you can find it exclusively on our Patreon community page. This is where we really get into how Kerry became the amazing human being she is, as well as a great artist. We talk about her upbringing and music, her family, being a natural born athlete. And don't let the pretty face fool you, y'all. She got some hood in her too for the show. So subscribe to the Patreon community page and get all that exclusive content you can only find here on that note. What's up, y'all? It's your girl, Kerry Hillson or Miss Cappie, baby. And you're watching on that note with Sean Stockman. Ladies and gentlemen, we are back part two of on that note with the amazing, the lovely Miss Kerry Hills. Yes, we've been having a great discussion about things that I would have never thought I would have known about this woman. Like, you know, when you think you know somebody, right? You know, they just surprise you with all kinds of little tidbits and little jibbles of information and past and history and all this. All good, though. You know, are you enjoying yourself? I am. I am really. I was just about to say that I'm enjoying this a lot. Thank you. Thank you. I don't always. Thank you. Thank you very much. Like I said, we try to make things comfortable here. We get flowers and we want to make sure that every artist is appreciated. Yeah. For what they they're known. I feel that. Yeah. What they're known for and what people may not know you for. Right. That's what this is all about. Getting the look of disdain from Sean Stockman. No, no, no, no. His face. It's playful. But I was like, oh, my gosh, I would have never known it. You were like, Kerry. Kerry's a thug. That's what JK used to call me. You're at the. You kind of you got it. You're a thug. You got to have it where I come from. Yeah. Well, you're from Decatur. So like you got to have that bone. Yeah. You cannot just be a pushover. You cannot let people just take advantage. You know, you got to fight for yourself. You got to advocate for yourself. I think a lot of that is just homegrown, man. It's like I always say about myself, like I'm a hood dude, but I'm not a street dude. Those are two different. Very different things. Lifestyles. I'm a hood dude. And mentality. And mentality. I'm a hood dude because I'm from the hood. Like I've lived in, in, in immersed, was immersed in that culture. So there's just like you said, there's certain things that if the jigs went down in an environment, you knew what to do, how to do it or whatever. Even if you have that awareness, even if it's about backing people off and getting somebody off you. Yeah. Yeah. That's just part of it. Like you just born with that bone, as you say. You know, so. And if you're not born with it, you better develop it. Right. Or you're going to get eaten alive. You're going to get eaten alive. And as you can see, we managed to. You know, get, get, get out of there pretty well. We're alive. We're alive. We're alive. So that's a good thing. Now, going back to your songwriting. Um, I've always been fascinated with how. Those songs were presented to the respective artists. Like you said, in the previous discussion, you worked with Brittany and Mary and Usher. Yeah. Um, were you necessarily in those rooms when the songs were presented? When, when the artists was listening to it or where they were just placements where the, the artist was like, I like this. And then you would go into the studio, uh, with these artists and work with them then. And if that's the case, how was it like working with Usher, with Mary, with Brittany? How were they as, as recording artists? Did they have quirks? Did they have certain rituals that they would have to, uh, practice before they went in? Like what was their style? Two out of those three, I did not cut. I did not, let me say, I did not vocal produce. Okay. Um, but Brittany, I did. Okay. So I can speak to that. Um, there are many others that I have. Yeah. Brittany was great. Brittany is, um, she works really hard, but at the time that we worked, life was really chaotic for her. So we would get her like a hundred percent for a shorter sense of time. I see. You know, and because she would like have to leave the studio, I don't know what would happen, but like she'd be in there and be pitched black. We're thinking we're giving her time to send a text or something. And like, we realized she left. You know what I mean? Like she's gone, you know, but that does not speak about her ethic. Cause when we have her, we had her. Brittany, she works hard. Yeah. Brittany had a moment in her life where just like you said, it was a little hectic. Yeah. And I couldn't imagine being Brittany's peers going through the things that she was going through at that time in her life where it was probably necessary for her to, okay, studio sessions over. Yep. I got to go handle some. Yeah. Yeah. And they, it was weird because they were like, we'd be working and this was not clutch sessions. But we'd be working and and although I did do, I did work with Brittany. I don't know that we placed anything, but JQ and I did work on Brittany together, like at her house. I can't remember if he also came to Vegas with us, but we worked in three different studios. And which song was this one again? I did like four or five on her blackout album. One was the lead single, which was give me more. Okay. Got you. But they were like doing things like cutting holes out of the bushes to like for paparazzi, I mean paparazzi was cutting holes in bushes. It was a gated studio. This is the one off Melrose. I think it's called Melrose studio or something. I can't remember the name. Okay. I don't remember the name. Doesn't matter. But and they probably wouldn't want the bad PR, but, but right. You know, paparazzi were cutting holes in their shrubs. You gotta be trying to shoot through the gate. You gotta be kidding me. Not kidding at all. Like you could get to the studio and there's a big ass hole, like so they could try to get a glimpse of her and they were just driving her crazy following her around. And so I totally understood all the disappearing that she might do or she would go away maybe for an hour or two. And we sometimes know she's gone. Sometimes we didn't. Um, we might get a text like, Hey, she'll be back tomorrow. And we're like, okay, well, we're just working on some more ideas. Wow. But, but, um, when she's there, she's just like the rest. She's super dedicated. She knows her. Isms. Yeah. By that point, she was a well oiled machine. Right. And she, um, was very self aware. Like. I can't do that, but I'm gonna do it like this. Yeah, yeah, sure. So, and I, I just, it might respect and empathy were very high for her at the same time. Yeah. You know, so it was a joy to work with her and she's such a sweet soul. And, and big ups to her considering that the recording process can really require a focus and for her to still complete records. To even try, to even try. To even try. I missed all of that mess. Yeah. Is a feat in and of itself. So shout out to you, Brittany. Yes. It speaks to her passion and her soul and the purity of music for her because it was saving her. Yeah. Probably very true statement. Yes. It was saving her. It was, it was her catharsis to dealing with a lot of the, the mess that she had to and I remember having that sense. I remember feeling that way like, Oh wow, we're, we're doing more than writing songs right now. Wow. You know, so there are blessed moments. I loved being able to witness artists, great artists who were at the top of their genre or craft. Give me one more. Someone that she worked with in the studio and just watch their work ethic. Um, one is that's kind of interesting. Well, let me know. So many. Let me look at my. I know there's too many. There's too many. Let me try to remember some of my discography. I'm not just. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're go through a discography. This is, this is beautiful. This is interesting. Yeah. The fact that she has to go through a discography to see, to remember, I don't remember how many artists she's worked with. That is just really the mind of a songwriter because they're literally just kind of cranking them out and they go into the studio and they boom, boom, boom. All right. Tomorrow's another session with another great artist. Oh, I'm in airplane mode. I'm like, why is my phone not working so fast? That is so funny. If you name some, I can maybe give you a marion. Oh, okay. Okay. He's fun because he does not stop dancing. Okay. Marion is true, like performer. Okay. Does not sit still. Yes. And it's fascinating to watch because he looks like a camera is around. Like, right. You could, he, you could record him right now and it would be video worthy dancing. Right. The intensity. Right. Right. He goes like, yeah. Like I was impressed by that. But in the studio, I don't remember his like habits. I just know another way. Like everybody at this level works hard. Now with somebody like, or Marion and he's behind you dancing and whatnot, does that affect how you write the song for him? I guess it could. It probably affects the way that we chose the track. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. It's got to be something that he can move to. It's got to be something with some tempo. But what we did was a mid tempo, but you can dance to it. I don't know. It's just, he was fun to give ideas. He can really, I don't, he gets people underestimate how much he can sing. Yeah. I'm Marion can sing. He can sing. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't know where that came from. This, this myth that or Marion cannot sing. Yeah. He can sing. He can sing. He followed two great male vocalists like Eric Dawkins and Tank. Yeah. You know, and he can sing. Like. Hey, you know me. I love when something has a rhythm to it. Music, games, timing, energy. When it all comes together, that's when it gets fun. And Draft King's Casino has something called cashingo. 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See terms at casino.draftkings.com slash promos. Ends July 22 at 11.59 p.m. Eastern time. I know some guys in the music industry that can't say. Mm hmm. OK. And who? Ha, ha, ha. That can't sing and have no business singing. Right. But they're doing it and they're and they're successful at it. So I'm not hating. Yeah, I was listening to one earlier. Like, wow, great ear for melodies, great writing. Right. Well, great ear for melodies. Right. I don't know what the hell he ever be talking about. Right. But I don't enjoy his voice. I don't enjoy seeing him sing live. Like, you know, there's it was a bold move to for him to become an artist. I felt I feel I still feel I'm like, oh, my God, I will talk about that after. After. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a few of those out there. Yeah, there's a couple. Yeah, that shouldn't. But but they find I won't say shouldn't because they're successful. Yes. So they found their niche and they did their thing. Yes. That doesn't necessarily mean they can sing. Yeah. Like that's not their gift. Yes. Their gift might be galvanizing a crowd, being a leader, you know, having confidence, being being very confident because that's attractive, you know what I mean? It makes people listen and like. And music is subjective. Music is subjective too. It's all a matter of what the people. You have to use that these days. We have to say that a lot more than we ever did. Oh, yes, it's subjective. I don't have to get it. The kids get that. Yes. The kids. The kids get that. And if the kids get it, then yeah, I just wish the kids got more greatness. Yeah. I wish the kids got better. I told my daughter because we went to Coachella for the first time and I told the story before and there was a few acts that went on and she would ask, you know, what do you think about them? And I would say, baby, my opinion might be a little unfair because I personally have actually seen Michael Jackson perform. Like I saw it. Yeah. Like I saw him on the walk. I saw him sing. I saw Prince. You saw you've seen the best. I saw Prince at Paisley Park. Yeah. Like I saw him. Yeah. And your group alone ain't no slumps. You guys were. It's because I saw them. The best performing male group. But it's because I saw them that we saw them. And we saw New Edition perform and we saw. You know, you know what I'm saying? So when I see these acts of today, again, I have to be subjective because their gauge of what's good is different. We'll say different. Yeah. It's different from how I would view something like some people will look at a performance go, oh, my God, I was so great. And I'm the one standing there like. Great. Really? Like this is it? OK. If you say so. All right. Cool. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I love it. And a lot of times I just shut the fuck up because it's like, you know, I don't want to seem like the old guy with the gray hair like saying, oh, pops. Right. You know what I'm saying? You know, that was that old shit. We don't do that. Oh, OK. That's what you mean. You don't do good performances. OK, that's fine. Right. But whatever you want to call it now. Yeah. You've both been you've been both rather the architect behind the scenes. And the face in the front, which we're about to get to. Mm hmm. What did songwriting teach you about artistry that performing alone? Never could. What did songwriting teach me about artistry that performing never could? How to treat people? How to treat people? How not to treat people? How to accept this performing artist path with humility, grace, respect? I think those are the things that I picked up from songwriting about artistry. How I wanted to treat others. How I wanted to be perceived. How I wanted to really, truly own humility and be a actual human with empathy and compassion and think about others, consider other people around. You know, those were the real life lessons I got as a songwriter. That's interesting. Because. Being in a studio with other artists, you tend to really see them. Yeah, for who they are. Yeah, guards are down. Defenses are off. Yes, makeup's off. Makeups off like they're in slippers, sweating, yeah, here to work. So you see the real human and sometimes you appreciate what you see. And sometimes you don't appreciate what you see or feel. So I think seeing different sides of different. Yeah, scenarios. Yeah, sure. Was a was a good lesson for me to have. And I was always grateful for that because I wanted to be a human. I wanted to do this, but I didn't want to lose myself. I didn't want to feel superior or feel that anyone else was inferior to me. And that defined and informed the rest of my. Life, my, you know, the whole rest, the whole career as an artist that defined who I was. So you you did bring that mentality in on your debut solo album in a perfect world. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. May is Mental Health Awareness Month. 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Sign up and get 10 percent off at betterhelp.com slash on that note. That's better. H E L P dot com slash on that note. Tell me what it was like writing for yourself, opposed to writing for other people. I could be, you know, because when in demo world, you're having to minimize the performance of it because you want the artist to come in and find their way and take it elevated. Every artist kind of wants to be the hero. Right. I don't want to do too much. I don't want to do too much. So that was one difference. Now I can do the most. Right. And not feel like, you know, but I also did learn that through songwriting because I also learned, Sean, that even if I could and can do the most, even as an artist, now that it's my song, I still shouldn't because the average person wants to sing along. I came up in a time where approach to songs and music was different. I couldn't. It wasn't a time where people were riffing and running the way that you guys did and killed, but music had become already more simple. By the time we're in the 2000s, like it was very simple. Yes. And so I learned about placement and pulling back in certain moments and just not doing all my everything my R&B heart wanted to do. Sure. So yeah. Yeah. That that that is important. And a lot of people don't understand that simplicity can be just can be more difficult than just going behind a microphone and just ripping and running because it's it's easy to do that. Like it really takes. I'm not saying it takes skill to do that, but it doesn't take much thought, especially if you already have the skill set. Yes. If you already have the skill set to go, like you're going to do that every song because it's it's it's easy for you to do it opposed to no, I want to tell a story. Yes. Emote. Emote. Mm hmm. Um, stick this melody here on this word. Hang on it. Yeah. And then let it breathe. Let it breathe. That that's thoughtful. It's thoughtful. Because you're not only thinking about yourself, which being an artist yet, it's it's self-indulgent and it's self serving. Like you have to like it first. Yeah. But it has to. In an attempt to do stuff for yourself, you want to emote something different. Yes. Yeah. And you're wanting to connect with people who don't have the isms you have. Yes. So you want people to sing along at a concert or an arena or a stadium or whatever. Yes. So you that being choicy. Yeah. It does require a lot more thought and time. Yeah. Um, that people. Need to kind of get back to. As much as people know us for riffs and stuff like that. Yeah, we did those, but we were taught very early too. Like when we first did our first few shows, major shows, and the guys and I were just going hamburger. Well, and our role manager at the time, Khalil, God rest his soul, told us very early that people want to sing with you. They they fell in love with how the song was recorded. Sing that. Sing it like I wrote it. Yes. Sing like it was recorded and I was written and you will see the difference in the crowd reaction. And he was right. Yes, we'll hit a riff. Yeah. But if anybody that's been to a Boys Dement show, we stick to the melody. We might hit a little. But we go right back to the melody. OK. It's never unrecognizable. Yeah, y'all could because all y'all can go. But you could. Yes, it makes sense. You're servicing the people. Yes, who you're privileged enough to have them in front of you in the first place. Yeah, give the people what they want. Yeah, they fell in love with it as is. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And a lot of artists that I've seen even today don't really have that, which is why I go back to my daughter, ask me that and I go. There's things that I see that I just wish that that artist understood what to do and or what not to do. And a lot of times it really is just the teaching. Like, I think that. There is this. I think you feel it too. There is this. It's not that they lack a willingness to learn. It's that maybe there's a slight arrogance in what they think they know already. And so if you the OGs are afraid to tell and pass down these tried and true lessons about entertainment business, about show business, they're reluctant to pass it down because the kids come in and they're haughty. And that's weird. But that's weird to me. Yeah, why wouldn't you want to learn from like the, you know, but they just feel like it's ours now. They just feel like this is our turn. We get it. Y'all don't understand it. You're outdated. You're older. And I ain't trying to hear it because it's working for me, but it could work better. Right. And that's all that's I think that's all the OGs are saying. And it's weird on both sides because you're right. Like, I laugh at a lot of older guys that I see like specifically online who are trying to relate to the young guys by wearing Cuban links and, you know, glasses, weird glasses and talking to slang and the whole thing. And I'm like, bro, you're 52. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like they're not relating to you. Right. Right. Like, bro, you try. Yeah. Knock it off, dude. Like your hairline is receding. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not it's not. It's not it. And I'm not saying you can't relate to the kids, but I think kids would respect an OG if they were just being an OG opposed to trying to be the old guy in the club. Yeah, I see. That makes sense. You know what I'm saying? It's it's it's not just like it's in its piggybacking off what you said. It's not necessarily they don't want to learn. But a lot of times is how the the the knowledge is is presented. I see. Yeah. You know, like I'm not trying to be a young guy. I'm not young. You know, I'm not a spring chicken anymore. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not saying that I don't like a lot of the new music. I can appreciate it and I can appreciate the artistry and where they at. Yes. But I also listen to it with ears of a veteran. And and hearing things like, yeah, that's good. Here's how you could have made that better. Maybe not cuss. How about that? Yeah, that might have brought you to a realm where your song could be played. Yeah, yeah. Or you you're you can't be played a radio. We can't even make a clean version of this for real. Or yeah, you're right. Like this could be this could. You could have a wider net. You could cast a wider net. If you just yeah, and there's a lot of little tweaks. Yeah, a lot of little things. Yes, you know what I'm saying? If you didn't say fuck, you would have literally changed the charting from this category to that category. You might have been able to amass a different audience. You might have amassed a larger audience or a different color audience or whatever the case, yes, you know, I'm saying different region of the world. Like, you know, because some of these regions don't play that ish. Some of y'all got songs you can't even perform in certain countries because they wouldn't have you. So the swearing really is that significant. Yes, yes, swearing. Yeah, gyrating on stage. There's certain places. Wardrobe choices. Wardrobe. Yes, yeah, there's certain places they don't play that man. We're like, no, don't be throwing your your pelvic area at anybody because you will get arrested. You will get arrested. So there are some places still that you can't even curse on the street in public. Yeah, shout out to Singapore. On a song. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, yeah, so it's like, yeah, that's all. Yeah, we're not saying that we don't appreciate what you're doing. We're not even saying that you shouldn't do it. Yeah. But we're just saying that there's a better way. Yeah, there are tweaks that you can make in your approach because you're talented. You have a gift. You have a strong destiny. You are so influential as a human that, OK, this is the channel you chose. Let someone guide you. We all had to do that. We all had to be guided. Yeah, we had to be taught these things. And sometimes we had to f around and find out. Yes. But like now we have these jewels that we would love to impart. But without without being attacked without love. Yes, without being stabbed for it. You know, like we're just trying to help because I see I see you glow, you glow. Yes, bro, you glow. You got it. You got it. You got it. Speaking of glowing, Pretty Girl Rock, you you you you had a song that really spoke to the girls to highlight and accentuate who they are, not just from. And I think I think a lot of people got it misconstrued what you were trying. The message you were trying to convey. Yeah, it wasn't just outer beauty. Yes. But inner beauty. Yes. And embracing that concept because you are what you eat. If you feel good inside, it'll exude outside. That's it. Please expound. I had to start saying that. So now I put in my shows, there's a reprise. Section for that song so that I could convey that message because I got tired of people. Not tired of. I mean, I love that they appreciate the song, however they do. But. I recognize that there was a miscommunication somewhere. Like I know how people feel about the song. But anyway, so I say something like ladies, this song was never about how you look. This song was always about how you feel inside. You know, forget the heels, the handbags, the makeup, you know, all the exterior things that we do to feel pretty when it's about your heart, it's about who you are, it's about how you treat people. It's about just how at peace and fulfilled you are and how how happy you are. You know, like those are that's what this song is truly about. And that's when you're beautiful. So then I say, now ladies, show me how beautiful you feel. And now in the crowd goes, you know, erupts. But that's what that song is about. And I'm going to be honest, when I first recorded it, I didn't even realize that. I knew how I felt. But my name is Carrie. So I'm like singing about myself. So I had to it was while I was recording it and shout out to Neil for writing that song. I only added minimal addition to that song and I some arrangements and, you know, just added some candy to it. But that was predominantly Neo. Shout out to Neo. Yeah. Shout out to Neo for that. Thank you for that. Because while recording, I was like, oh, they're going to hate me for this. Even though I'm saying don't hate me because I'm beautiful. They're going to. I was like, they're going to freaking kill me for this. The wrong idea. Yeah. And I was like, oh, so I was reluctant. And then something as I'm singing, I started realizing how I'm feeling inside. And how I started like, like getting chills and vibrating like, oh, I got it. I see it. This is powerful because when people are listening to this, they're going to feel beautiful. Right. They're going to feel joy. Like. Whatever that feeling, whatever that positive feeling is, I'm like, ah, if they could see past me talking about being pretty and and understand how they're feeling as they're singing this song and the like it makes I see it. Like I used to see early videos of I still see videos of young girls discovering the song. Yeah. Scroll down the page like just to see this child, just to see how are they normally in that video, they're walking and feeling different. They're carrying themselves differently. They're a little more upright and there's a there's a sass and there's a spunk. That that it brings out of them. And I love when I tell you I love seeing that I love feeling that for my fans. So I'm super grateful for a song like that, even though I was really scared. And they're grateful to. Well, yeah, I feel that and I'm grateful that they're grateful to. Yeah. I mean, you could have gone a lot of different ways. Yeah, it's true. And again, music is subjective. So people are going to have interpretations that honestly, in some cases, they should never have because sometimes people are just wrong. Right. I understand you feel a certain way about certain things. You have that right. But it doesn't mean that it's right. It's not it's not accurate. Yeah, it's not accurate. And what I like about the album is it really highlights who you are as a songwriter because you have, you know, and as an artist, you have pretty girl rock. But then you have Turning Me On, right? Which is a nod to. Women in empowerment in another sense where now they are on two different albums, but OK, I see. But that work of that body, those bodies of work were within one year of each other. I got it. Got OK. Cool. So maybe that's how I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, but OK, so let's go to that particular song. Turning Me On. Yeah. Turning Me On was a record that I loved one because of the beat Shout Out to Polo. Yeah. And just how you flip the lyrics on the off. Yeah. Like and how quickly it is, how quickly you can turn a woman off. Oh. Like you could have all the boxes checked. And we as guys might say or do something that just completely just dries up the well. It's called the water runs dry. And the kids are called the IK. Yeah, the IK. They do say the IK. And I kind of I like that because it is a groovy instruction manual for fellas on how to treat a lady, how to approach a woman. And I appreciated that because normally when women speak, especially modern day, when it comes to men, it's always just staggering. Just, you know, you ain't this, you ain't that. But you never extrapolate why. Hmm. Like what is it that you like? Yeah, right. What is it really that you don't like? Right. You literally always spell it out. Spell it out. OK, true story. Yeah. Fly, you know, brown skin popping the whole thing. Yeah. But you just want to hit. Right. You know, or you do, you know, it's it's yeah. I like that approach. So I'm sorry, I didn't mean to talk about your own song. But what was was there an incident that spawned that record to be written? Yes, young womanhood. It was happening. I wasn't famous yet. I was still very much in the world. A young girl starting to go to events. I'm in college and, you know, like it's it was just true story. It was I actually wrote it with a guy where I gave it was me and Zach, his name is Zach Wallace. And I was just, you know, spelling out the likes and dislikes, giving him a woman's perspective. And let me go lay this melody and let's just, you know, we, you know, just wrote it together. But it was just kind of it was necessary, but we didn't take it that seriously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was necessary. It was there were lessons in it for sure. Yes. But we we didn't take it so seriously. We kind of just were like just having fun with it, which is why it's such an unorthodox melody. Yeah. Unorthodox way approach to I mean, the track is unorthodox itself, which Polo is known for. Yes. But yeah, it was a I still listen to that when I'm performing it or listening to it. And I'm just like, this is so unorthodox. Yes, so dope, though, you killed it. So open. And what I like about it too is that your vocal approach, a little nasally. Yeah, I was one of the first to have that tone. Very different from the songs that you've written that you perform. Like, yeah, you almost sound like a different person. So it led me to ask when I first heard it, was that originally for you? Oh, was that a demo? It was it was for me. OK, so it was me experimenting. I see. Yeah, because I at the I as a songwriter, you have to say I'm writing for Britney, say I'm writing for JLo, say I'm writing for Tony Braxton, who I ended up. They asked me after we did the song, we blend it so well that they asked me to come in and do backgrounds on, you know, her song, Breathe. Yes, please. I think. Yes, yes, I got to breathe. I mean, because on our song that we did called. I don't remember. OK, that's OK. But it was I don't even remember the album. Oh, gosh, that's OK. But the song we did, I blended so well. But the point I was making was. I was so used to changing my voice for different sessions that I that's something that I brought in from songwriting. I'm malleable, like why not change and play? And so I just created this like. Nasal tone for that song. Super dope. I felt like it was just it made things fun for me too. Yeah. And it makes my stage performance like. Kind of have. A dynamic. Yes. Yes. It changes delighting. Yeah, so to speak. Right. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Absolutely. OK, knock you down. Knock you down. That was another smash of the many you've written for yourself. Work at what Kanye? What was that like? Was he in the studio? Was that like? He was there. He was there. He was there. I was there. Yeah. Um. So how this happened was. I thought that I wanted him on a song on my album called Alienated. I thought that more Kanye. Mm hmm. Um. We were we met because actually, I don't remember how we met met. I might have been meeting him on this session. I don't remember how he got there, but we were filming a video for Make Love. Mm hmm. And he was like my video guy. He was like the leading, you know, man, the leading man for my that video, that visual for Make Love, which was never an official single, but people loved it so much, we shot a visual for it. Sure. And so that day off camera, we're just. Getting acquainted and he goes, how's your album? Like, because he was like, he tweeted this one time that he is a fan of mine. And that he said something like Kerry's, Kerry Hilsen's first album was one of the greatest of all time or something like that. Wow. I don't even know if he said greatest of all time. I think he did. High praise. High praise. From yay. I still have that screenshot of his tweet. Super dope. But. He respected my craft and he was just asking me about the project. I don't think that it had dropped yet. No, it hadn't. OK. And so he goes. How is it going? I'm like, I take this. This is me, confident Kerry. I said, it's going great. I was like, but you know, there's one thing that would make it better. And he goes, he's oblivious. He goes, what? And I go. Come on. And he's like, well, why can't I? Because I had I said it in such a way like, like. But I knew that my album was right now being mastered in Canada right now. Yeah. Like as I'm shooting this video, sure, the album is. Fully sequenced. It's it's mixed. It's getting mastered right now. So he goes. So he said his response. He didn't know that. But he goes, well, why can't I? And I said because being master, he's like, well, if I do something tonight, do we have a shot? So I asked my manager, Ethiopia, who was there. I said, hey, if I can, if Kanye. Right. Once, you know, I'm like, and she's like, I was like, can we make it happen? Can you stop mastering? Right. The answer was yes. I think we caught Polo. We caught, you know, to eat and she they booked a session. He had an event. He was with Amber. They had an event to go to. He shows up. We're at the studio. I'm expecting to play him alienated. I'm just playing him a few songs just to give him an idea of where I'm going as an artist because he knew me as a songwriter. And and a couple of the features that I do, you know, the way I are, you know, some exhibit, some things were out, right? But we had an awareness. He heard knock you down. He was like, I want that one. And I was like, in my mind, I'm like, I already got a feature on that. Like, I don't want to. Like, y'all going to crowd my room here, you know, like, but he's Kanye. Yeah. And Kanye is Kanye. And he's going to give it. He wants and I think it worked out or he's going to leave. And it definitely did. I think it worked out. It definitely did. But he gave us like a two minute verse. Yeah, right. Two two minutes. Right. Longer than what you hear. Yeah. If I played you this verse, you put it at the top of the song. If I played you this verse that you gave us. Um, I thought he was just putting it where he was because he just like that part of the track the most put at the top of the song kept going. I was like, is he ever going to stop? The chef cook. I was like, yeah, but I was like, I gotta. It's my song. I got to perform this. You got to let him come in a minute three. Like I let him cook. I definitely let him cook. We let him cook. We just were like, we're going to have to chop up this recipe. Right. When he leaves. Right. We'll be talking again. Yeah. Yeah. So so that yeah, we had to and he was mad. He was livid that we chopped up his verse. We put we put part of it. Keep rocking, keep knocking. Yeah. You loopy, thawed it up. We kept all that. Right. To intro the song, but I had to get my verse off. And then Neil got his verse off and then Kanye first. It worked out. It worked out. I hope you're not still upset. Yeah. Because I love you and I appreciate you hopping on. I love how it how it happened. Yeah. I appreciate your support throughout the years. Yeah. Yeah, it worked out. Great song, Kanye. Yes. Thank you for your contribution. Yes. Oh, he's such a genius. I wanted more. Yeah. And I did end up working with him on other projects. But yeah, I wanted more collaborations with Kanye West, for sure. Looking back at In a Perfect World, what part of that album feels the most you today? And what part feels like, you know, like a time capsule? Because I always find that interesting. Can I look at the track list? Yeah, sure. Is it on the first album? Yeah. Well, yeah, in a perfect world. Because I always look at our first albums, for example, like Coolie I. Harmony and I listen and I giggle sometimes because I remember that kid. That recorded that record. Yeah. I'm not that person anymore. You understand? Like I'm not that 18 year old kid anymore. So to listen to how I sang takes me back to how I thought and how I lived at the time. And it tickles me. Look at it. I was like, oh, God bless you. You sweet child. Does it make you cringe or are you more just like you just love you love that younger, naive? Yeah, I loved that guy. He was a sweet guy. He was a really sweet guy and and and very naive and just willing to just accept anything. You know, I just wanted to see the world and. Rose colored glasses like straight Tom Ford style. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. So he was necessary. At that time. That's deep. In order for me to become the person I am now, he had to exist. So I thank him. That little one. So my thank you. Yes. Yes. Yes. He was a sweet child, but couldn't resist that. No, please. Anytime, anytime. But that child is gone. He's he's he's not gone. He's just he's back there. Yeah. You know, it's letting me take over. Yeah. So how do you feel? Like, do you see yourself still in that record? Have you grown out of that record? Was that like a period in your life that you look back and say, I'm not that person anymore? Let's see. Or do you still preserve some of that energy? That was my first thought. I was like, wow, musically, I'm still kind of the same girl. Like a lot of the isms that I had then I still have now. There is a song caught on that first project called Telling the Truth that it's one of the fan favorites, but I'm not that girl anymore. Like, you know. Give us a brief description of what this is trying to avoid that. Please got to you can't you can't throw that out there. And and the song is about not being faithful. Hmm. Called Telling the Truth. Oh, so it's about that. OK. It happens. It happens when you're really. Well, it can happen. And it did happen. And I was it's not an excuse, but I was really young and in a relationship. Early, like we met at like 17 and no, 17 and 19. And we stayed together. Even through this song, you know what I mean? This song made me confess to him. Because I he heard it and he's like, is there anything you want to tell me? And I was like, yeah, you know, but I'm not that girl anymore. You know, I haven't done it since. Right. It's not who I am, but it's I documented a mistake that I'd made in my lifeline. So that stood out to me looking at that. And I think a part of me wanted to confess and chose this route to do that, you know. But. I don't know. I do listen back to my voice and I'm like, hmm, like I've always. In my groups, I'm like alto and I can hit some tenor notes. I have a kind of heavier. Yeah. Tone. Yeah, sure. But back then it was a little squeakier and brighter, you know. So I think about that sometimes and how it's a little harder for me to sing now. These old songs that people know so well. Yes, I'm like, oh, I'm trying to find that tone. Yeah. But it's tough because that's an innocent, young. Yeah. Early 20s tone. And I'm an early 40s. Hard voices change as we get older. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's amazing and frustrating as hell. It can be. Yeah. Yeah. I heard Brandy talking about that recently. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talking about like one album that was she was like, I don't even sing that. I. Right. Right. Well, there was a moment. Where you stepped away. Yeah. Long moment. What did that season teach you? About yourself? What about yourself? About music? About your approach in music? Like. I'll go sell first. Yeah. What I learned so everything about myself. I learned everything. I learned who I am. I learned who I'm not. I learned. My purpose. What I'm here to do. I learned my gifts. Like renewed sense of that. Like. I was born to express. I, you know, I learned. And and and that's what the time really ended up being. I thought I just needed a break from releasing music and and doing the industry thing. Like, but looking back, it was for me to be fortified as a person, as a human, as a woman. As a student of this game, as a, even as a songwriter, like I sharpened a lot of tools. I think musically, it made me freer because I didn't listen to music for years. Wow. And I mean nothing. I mean, my life was radio silent for years. I was depressed. So life was very silent. I didn't want to be reminded of my old self, my music. I would do shows and that'd be the only time I hear music for the whole week, you know, or month. Interesting. And I just didn't even even the artist that I loved, I didn't listen to, you know, my old faithfuls, the ones that like would pick me up. And I just, I just lost love for music. Wow. So it was really, because I felt like it was the thing that bit me. I felt like it was like the gift that became a curse. So, so the bug bite became a snake bite. Right. And I just did not understand if I ever wanted to do it again and how I had nowhere with all of that because I knew that what needed to be intact was the love for it, for me to withstand all that it comes with. I had to, the love has to be there. I respect it too much. Yeah. I'm not going to just do this to rape it for its money, you know, like I don't, I respect it more than that. So I knew it had to be pure and I don't want to do things that I'm not in. Are you back in love? Oh yeah. And the things that I learned about music is like, ah, I can get back to my influences. I love the 70s. I love funk. I love, like I'm inspired by all the vintage. I'm inspired by the 80s. I'm inspired by babyfates. I'm inspired by so many. So now I did fall back in love and I made music that I was in love with. And it all just, I still fear the industry daily. I'm like, let me make sure I don't step in no shit today. You know? Yeah. I'm very conscious of that now. And fear is not fun, but it can be healthy too. Yes, it can. You know, because I'm just really concerned about having the career I intended to have before mistakes were made. So I'm starting over, truly. And... That's good sometimes. It's good. It's good for me. It's good. I really didn't know if I would ever do this again. I really, really couldn't answer that. I would say it in interviews like, yeah, yeah, I'm coming back, but I really didn't know. If I'd have the opportunity, if people would care, if I could assemble the team, if I could get out of that deal, if I could find a new deal or create, you know, do go independent, like if I can, can I handle that? Can I, like there was so much trepidation and fear. Can I, is my skin thicker? The answer turned out to be yes. Can I handle the criticism and the, all of that? Yes, I can. You know, I'm stronger. Cause I'm more self-aware, I'm more self-assured. I'm so glad I took the break. And it's hard for me to say that cause it was so much turmoil, it was so much like, pain behind that decision and pain throughout it. But I can say now, like, oh, I'm so glad I took a break. It's the fear that keeps you present. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. How about that? Like it makes you feel your body. Right now. Yeah. In the moment, yeah. The fear is when you feel you're most alive. You're alive, yeah. Yeah. And it's funny cause I don't like fear. Yeah. I don't like to be fearful at all. It's necessary sometimes. But it is necessary sometimes. It's necessary. It's a teacher too. It is a teacher. Yeah. It's a teacher to let you know that you are as strong as you, that you might not even know that you are. True. Cause how else would we learn to persevere if there were no challenges? We wouldn't. If there was no fear. We wouldn't know how strong we can be. Yeah. Fear is necessary. Yeah. It sucks, but it's necessary. I hate it. I feel like a, it just makes me feel like a punk, you know? Like, you know, but I've embraced it. I embrace all sides of me now cause they work together. And all of the emotions and all of the traits and qualities that I embody sharpen each other. If you let them. If you're paying attention. If you, you know. Again, fear keeps you present. It makes you look around and makes you see things and it makes you aware of your own fingers. Yes. Yes. And what the cable will have in your breath. Your heartbeat. Your heartbeat. That's important. Yes. Especially when you're scared. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's good to have you back. Yeah, thank you. It's glad I'm, I've been really proud to be back just to be back. I don't really, can't say I don't care, but I don't care as much as I probably could about chart positions and radio position. That's good to care. I'm just proud of myself for just, you know. That's so good. I never really cared though, if I'm being honest. Yeah. I don't even know chart positions of my historic records. I do not know. I don't know how many RIA certified. I so I don't, I don't actually know. Well, let me tell you, you did pretty well. In real life. Yeah. So I'm proud, I'm cool with that. I'm cool with knowing. That's enough. That's good enough. I'm still able to, it's not a hobby, it's not a side gig. It's still my job. Well, you just performed last night. So someone likes you. Someone, someone is appreciating it. Yes. Yeah. That's great. That's always been the goal. I just wanted to be more than a hobby and I still feel like that. It's gotta stay a hobby. In a sense of, you know, you wanted to feel like not work. Yes. Yes. Like you want to, you want to feel like us. I'm still having fun. Terry Lewis told us this. He said, when to stop, when it, when you stop having fun quit. Like you, we gotta enjoy this shit. You have to. We could be working at, you know, Arby's for some. No disrespect to Arby's cause, you know, it's good. But the point is, you know, but, but you know, we could be doing something. You could be doing a lot of things. This is a privilege. Life could look, it totally is. This is a blessing. I do not take that for granted. They get up in the morning and, and grab a microphone and sing some songs and people clap. Right. And then you go back home. Life could look so different. You know what I'm saying? It could look so, in so many different ways. We artists really gotta consider what we're doing here. It is a service and it is work. It's a privilege to. It's a privilege for sure. And it can be working a privilege at the same time. Yes, it can. That's the both can exist. Two things can be true. Yes. Let's have some fun. Okay. Top five favorite singer songwriters. Oh, baby face number one. Okay, let's go. Oh, she's ready. She's ready. Yeah, she's ready. I thought I was gonna stump her like, okay, all right. Okay, come on. Singer songwriters. I stumped her. You didn't stump me. I'm a. I'm just fast out the gate. I am afraid to say this one because I felt it for so many years of my formative years before learning something about him that I do not like. Okay. Fair enough. But if I can say Robert Kelly is one of my favorite singer songwriters. Listen, top most inspiring. That's legitimate. Okay. Cause we're not talking about the other stuff. Yeah. We're talking about. Yeah. If those watching can separate that just for that. Singer songwriters. Yes. My audience can do that. We're capable of separating. I trust that. I trust that. Okay. Number three. Singers. I mean, Michael Jackson is up there. He qualifies for sure. Greatly as a songwriter. Yeah. He's amazing. Michael's slept on cause they think that he just dances. But now he puts pen to paper too. Written some important records. I wanna look at my phone. Can I do that? All right. Is that three? That's three. Give us two more. Oh, Stevie Wonder. Okay. I didn't even have to. That came to me without. We knew that was something was gonna bubble. Okay. Last one. Stevie. Oh, Indiaree. India. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. That's a great list. That's my top five. I'm sure there are more that I'm remiss. Of course. But yeah, that's a strong five. No one can be mad at that. That's a strong five. That's an Avengers team. I haven't want them to save the day. Okay. Last question. Okay. Because, you know, I had a bunch of questions that I did not get to. So there's gotta be a part three and four next time. Okay. And I'll shut up. I'll stop talking so long. No, no, no, no, no. That's not why I said it. I'm so long-winded. No. The reason why is because it was such a great conversation. I just didn't get to them. So we'll get to them next time. But anyway. Yeah. What's your favorite restaurant, Carrie Lynn? Where? What city? Anywhere. I'm a foodie. Give me something. First thing comes to mind. Boom. Houston's. Houston's. Houston's good. In some cities. Houston's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Love it. I mean, cause who else got this Minnish dip? Right. Right. Who else has that Hawaiian rib eye? Okay. See? See? It's starting to. That smoked salmon. See? Yeah. Everybody likes smoked salmon. You know, that jungle salad. Jungle salad. Like it's, it's, they got some flavors going. Okay. All right. So you're at Houston. Yep. Sampling some flavors. Okay. And, you know, having a little bit, a little drink. And in entryway, you see, walk in a younger version of Carrie Lynn. Oh. She's been looking for you. Mm. She's been looking for jewels of wisdom. Okay. That she needs for her journey into adulthood. So she sits down, crawls from you, samples some of that jungle salad and just sits and looks at you. Mm-hmm. What would the older, much wiser Carrie Lynn say to the younger Carrie? Hmm. Hang in there. You're going to end up okay. You're stronger than you think you are. You have the tools. You have everything you need. You are so wise. You're hard headed, a little stubborn and kind of rebellious. And definitely a thug at times. Mm-hmm. We, we all learn that today. Yeah. Hide the ketchup. Hide the ketchup bottles. Hide the glass bottles. But you, you, you have everything you need. You, it's just a matter of choosing to utilize the tools you have and when to use them, learning when, when, when and how to use them. You're smart. You're keen. You're, you're, you're everything is going to turn out okay. And you get to work is not work for you. You're going to have a blessed, really blessed life. Just hang in there. Mm-hmm. Cool. And on that note, ladies and gentlemen, can y'all please give it up for the amazing Carrie Hilsen. What a convo. I'm about to cry. Yeah. I'm about to cry. I'm about to cry. I'm about to cry. I'm about to cry. Yeah.