The Best 2000’s Hardcore Band (Tournament Bracket)

Bitter end San Antonio versus the hope conspiracy another Boston monolith here Hope con I I love. Oh, are you leaning? I'm leaning. I'm going bitter end here. I'm going full hope con So let's see. Let's let's get somebody on the on the horn here. Here we go. Dan Are you on the show right now? You're about to be can you have a special guest on the podcast? who MJF MJF is going to weigh in on on something very important Max if you had to pick between bitter end or hope conspiracy, who would you pick? um suicide Oh the suicide file Oh Holy shit, hello welcome. It's hard work time Here we go again Yeah, we're we do this to ourselves We do this to you. I hope if you're gonna listen to this episode, you're alone so that when you're yelling you're not scaring anyone Yeah, easy This is the official Hard lore episode to crown The best two thousands hardcore band of all time now. I know what you've been thinking the past 24 hours or so as you've been staring at this bracket Oh my god, there's twice as many You know, we were there So we're finally really qualified to handle this Yeah, this is one where we we as callon said we were there It's a lot of our peers a lot of people we're still friends with to this day And there's a lot of bands that aren't on it Because there's that many bands, you know, it's like it was impossible to do an honorable mention section because there were as many On uh regular mentions so we had to just go ahead and double it And we know there's still some things missing you you cannot please everybody We know you're blowing up the comment section saying where is this band? Where is this band? They there were turns out there were 64 bands that we thought fit a little better Yeah, and i'm sure we're free. We forgot ramalla until minutes before this so ridiculous If we don't do this right now The whole thing will be different tomorrow. Yeah, and we should clarify too when we say 2000s band. We're talking 2000 to 2010 that's right And some of these bands started in the 90s, but their era was the 2000s very important You know carry-ons on here They broke up in 2001 played one show in 2005, but we all spent the whole decade Hoping they'd play again And that means there are 2000s band Uh converge started in the 90s 80s 90s 90s, but that's a certified and ran the 2000s Right, so it's it's it's all about that kind of the era not just not just first thing they ever did And if you've seen any of our other tournament bracket episodes, you know that sometimes we get stuck We we hit an impasse we hit a road and we need a little help So we'll be calling in some guests who have not been prepped on the bracket to Uh to be our tiebreakers in the in the toughest moments of this episode. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you say? I say we start All right match up number one left side top of the top of the page we got a boston showdown Converged versus rampage All right, listen the first round of these things is It's tough to be fair because when when there's a especially when there's a band like converge. Yes Like i'm sorry. Here's the thing everybody complained about our first couple brackets because I didn't see them at all It was just like here's random heat heat versus heat Massive band versus massive band. This is seated pretty well now Which leads to the first round being pretty brutal. So rampage gets the shit out of the stick here for sure but great band straight up capital hc of a great Amazing discography not a bad song but converge is the is the clear winner Well, what's fun about this is is as you said we were there So we can just literally talk about how like converge was was at one point like In in hindsight seemed like turn style seemed like In a creative league of their own And and huge and doing doing all these crazy tours and constantly in doing all this cool art stuff and DVDs and just things that were just like wow you can do that So ahead of their time. It's so ahead of the time that damn jane doe face Sold about Three million. Yeah, exactly. This is a band that all of our peers look a band where if if they're playing a fest The band's going watch or they're playing the show everybody's watching, you know, yeah, that's a monitor sell out So converge is a clear winner here. Check out rampage though. Great band match up two Bitter end san antonia climate of be ya Yeah versus the hope conspiracy another boston Monolith here, it's funny because I I actually thought bitter end was a little later, but That being pp is like 2005 climate affair was 2007. Oh, look at that. I didn't know that's a perfect record Wow Hope con I I love Oh, oh, are you leaning bitter? I'm going bitter end here. I'm going full hope con All due respect to bitter end, but hope con Yeah, listen, I love them. I'm a I'm a I'm a huge fan. I'm a day one fan Dude also to consider the comeback record with like animal farm on it. What's what's what's it called? That knows your name Dude So good came out of nowhere and rocked, you know, I agree and I also think bitter end Climate of fear is like a decade defining hardcore album to me But we're at an impasse. We're at an impasse already. We got to make first call that yeah, neither But it is what it is. This is why this is fun. I love hope con. I love bitter end and that's and here we are Okay, we can't call anyone from new england or texas. So let's see. Let's let's get somebody on the on the horn here I can't believe the second round Yeah, what's up? Here we go dan are you on the show right now? You're about to be Can you have a special guest on the podcast? who MJF uh, yes MJF MJF is gonna weigh in on on something very important dan One of these like weird All right, so here we go dan we're crowning the best 2000s hardcore band of all time Of all time No, we we're we're at an impasse We're at an imp. I know we all do but we're at an impasse and we need we're this is match up two and we're stuck Okay, bitter end versus the hope conspiracy There you go Hope conspiracy is is good bitter end Did so much more wrote so many more better songs climate of fear decade defining right? Yeah, I would actually agree climate of fear is like it's like an error defining record max is saying frank sinatra Tell them about that probably to ask max bitter end or hope con Uh max if you had to pick between bitter end or hope conspiracy would you pick? um suicide Oh the suicide file They're coming up. All right. Thank you dan. I may call you back Okay, bye There you have it Definitely keeping that in yeah 100 we got okay, so bitter end and suicide take the round That's very surprising to me the very surprising to me I you know bitter end broke out dude. I wonder if it's because at the time I was into hope con. I wasn't into like heavier heavier yet and hope cotton was kind of weird had had like Musical parts as opposed to kind of like uh best wishes type stuff. I wasn't there yet, you know, so I wonder if just hindsight Okay, I just I would say even in the in the time 2007 climate of fear comes out It it changes the landscape. All right. Hey one of those landscape changing bands not that hope con wasn't Dark hc, you know next okay next matchup here Man Trapped into rice versus violation violation is one of the greatest Ventura county. This is a santa barbara hc band One of the best 805 hardcore bands of all time And and some other matchups here they could go very far Unfortunately for them. They were seated against The band that killed melodic hardcore once and for all got everybody in bigger jeans bigger hats bigger shirts Trapped under ice Change the world. Yeah, you want to say era defining? I mean that that's Tui is one of the bands with like with a bullet, you know, or it's like united the world Yeah, the beatdown kids the posse kids the straight edge kids the crusties Everybody loves to you. I to this day very good point And also like, you know, I didn't know about bands from baltimore I didn't know about stout. I found out about stout because of tui as I'm sure many it did many, you know You know, I think that's cool. It's it's it's a band from a place And I identify with that where maybe not a lot of people know about the music going on there It's it's to I for sure. There you go. I'll do respect to I totally agree violation dude. I mean that was they were kind of a local c change too Because they were all in crowbar shirts and ripping off life is pain. Oh very early for I mean they were They changed the game here at least But to you I changed the game everywhere Yeah, what can you do up next? Shattered realm versus born from pain This is the kings of new jersey beatdown versus the kings of german Hardcore really. Yeah, I've only seen born from pain once One time dude. They have like eight great records It's crazy. Um, shadow realm broken ties spoken lies masterpiece I mean, this is this is a collin young bracket. These are these bands weren't really in my wheelhouse at the time these two My I would say when I was 17 I wanted my first tattoo to be a shadow realm tattoo. I did not get that tattoo But I did feel that way. I didn't feel that way about born from pain But I think shadow realm has two lps Broken ties spoken lies and from the dead end blocks where life means nothing Born from pain has a lot of great records But I don't know that any of them Hold up to the modern audience as much as broken ties does on its own. I see I think I fear I think it must be shattered. Um, I'm I'm good with that Born from pain definitely born from pain or definitely synonymous with That era of hardcore for sure You know, yeah, I think I think that's the right decision massive band You know and like got broke out. They they they crossed over they got over in the us Which was very hard for international bands in the 2000s very hard. They're yeah, I can name like four insane matchup next Yeah, I feel nowhere, but here can this happen and that's that's really the most beautiful thing and I want to remind you all That's what this is really about is putting you on to this big list of things rather than actual We don't give a fuck about the winner. Everybody knows it's between five of these bands. Yeah Yeah, but we get to talk about franted versus think I care right now. I feel like we're gonna be at another impasse Oh, yeah, I would I would think so Because franted is not really anything to me man. I've played with them twice Yeah, Japanese crusty legends. Yep zero skips Dbeat masters still rocking expertly to this day a massive discography That's impressive. You know think I care has got mongrel World world asylum of course Is that there is that it and then the new thing and then the new thing um, which is very good They just had oh they got away about them. You know, I don't know. There was just there was something about how that group approached music That that hits so fucking hard. I completely agree and it's the There's a band we're gonna talk about later where I feel the same where it's not overly obviously Heart like classically like what hard means now Is a different thing than what think I care was doing and it's still harder than so many things It's a convent. It's an it's an it's like a different kind of conventional hardness And I'll give you the best example later, but I don't want to talk. Okay. Okay. Okay coming up I love incredible band. I obviously I'm a I'm a framped head Okay, I mean, it's not necessarily a hill that I want to die on because I'll give you a little hint Either one's losing the next round. So 100 so so like it's fine We don't like I'll accept that But I mean here's the thing in the us and this is This is another thing This is not we did not put this bracket together with the thing in mind of like What was most popular at the time? It's the best up, you know, right some things we did add because of how popular it was at the time Not necessarily but it's still the best up Right, right, right, right, but that's not to say I think framtid is like So much insanely better than think I care because they're both such great bands I think the sheer depth of their discography their consistency and uh Their unique position on this list makes them the winner to me. Okay. I'll accept it We've got a lot to argue about later. Yeah, I know. I know but it's not a hill I need to die on carry on versus justice Uh, man, I saw justice with either dead stop or with 86 mentality. I think 86 mentality at the paul university maybe 2005 uh love They had the weirdest songwriting really cool I like that record very very much carry on Changed my life Same yeah, I'm not exaggerating the seven inch and the lp fucking Rearranged how I thought about what this kind of music could be I agree and Justice is maybe the best to ever do the like super touch Worship style. Yeah carry on is one of the best bands ever Ever period carry on here. Yeah, I mean that's you guys know us justice for justice, but but carry on wins here Yeah, yeah very interesting matchup up next. Oh Trash talk versus pulling teeth Now if you want to talk popularity It's trash trash talk was over they crossed over to all sects that fucking t-shirt. Yes Everywhere still at the mall, you know you got a borders. It's right there pulling teeth creative band original band What Dude the dead is dead Yeah, what a banger. What are you so afraid of come on? What are you? Oh Dude that they wrote I think the dead is dead is the is like one of the greatest vegan most convincing vegan anthems of all time Oh interesting where I read that and I thought he's got a point Um, this is tough. This is tough. I've seen Both bands a handful of times. Yeah Uh, just just played with trash talk at the icp and it was probably insane. It was awesome You know, I would say of if this was who was most popular it would be trash talk. Yes, if it's Who I listen to more It's pulling teeth. Yeah, I think I that that's how it was for me It feels it just feels a little crazy because we're talking about yeah Okay, because we were talking about converge and in to y's like impact or bitter ends impact But that's not the only thing because impact wise trash talk had a much bigger impact To this day, so we're not still impacted. Yes. So we're not only talking about that. That is just I love Me too Me too. I think I'm going pulling to you. Okay. I'm with you. I'll do respect to trash. Yeah, of course They were I mean both bands. So this was initially 32 bands You know, we we made it 64 because we had so many honorable mentions trash talking pulling teeth were both on there immediately. So Mm-hmm. Both no-brainer Matchups trash talk could have gone a lot further but pulling teeth takes it this time. Okay. Iron age Versus the promise now. This is interesting because iron age I remember iron age playing chicago And everybody like went and sat down because it was like oh this band sucks. We were young This is which is so crazy because the first LP is like Everything you like dude, it was I think it was mental blacklisted iron age and Blacklisted huge. Yeah, of course, but iron age sounds more like best wishes than and you love best wishes You know, I'm not in 2000 whatever. No, I totally understand. I did not, you know, so I don't think iron age sucks. I actually think iron age is sick now amazing that but I'm just explaining that like It's very interesting because at the time, you know, I only saw him once and it was like, oh, yeah, we don't like that band I was it was young. I didn't know saw promise once too. Fucking love the promise. I love These are ideological opposites, you know, we got kings that we got the guys who were doing the volcano weed bag before anybody versus Syracuse straight edge. I think I think of the two. Yeah, iron age is clear winner I Think what they're and if we're talking impact their impact with I know but two LPs and could probably headline any US festival tomorrow Yeah, promise probably couldn't But you know many riffs Straight edge. That's a perk believer crush all fakes I will Okay, I'm fine with that not a hill I need to die on I would probably personally put the promise It's just funny looking down the road. Who's being like, well If we call anyone, do you think they're agreeing with you? Oh if we called one of Yes, but you one of the four people that don't think the exact same as you, you know, yeah, right? Um Yeah, because christen james are absolutely agreeing with me caution would probably agree with me I wonder what you're all the same guy. I know I know I know that's why I'm saying They don't count I know The first person you try to call was brody you are the yeah, but but bitter end versus hope con That's not uh, those are two bands. I've never heard him talk about you know, oh sure that that was my thinking Um, I've never broed down with the mate about the hope conspiracy or bitter end. Yeah, I wonder I wish bob would answer because this would be a good one for him. He's going iron age All right, all right. We'll go iron age. All right Next we're halfway through the the first round. Yeah first round of the first round This is insane. No warning versus brace war. Listen brace war in 2006 pandemonium rich MUND Straight up dude played more sound almost second most sounding puries than any other band that we found No warning was one of those c change game changing bands The best new york hardcore band the best new york hardcore band from canada Uh demo seven inch first lp Suffer survive absolutely All happened in this one decade all bangers It's no warning here Of course All due respect. Of course all due and i'm sure braces would agree. You know what I mean like Ryan braces Basically extended family to all you know He's he he was unc before unc was up But it is it is no warning here. Yeah Yeah Fascinating matchup next. Yeah one of those bands ceremony another one. Yeah sold out the motherfucking palladium. Yeah versus new lows Who I've briefly played for I love new lows me too when when the first it was either the demo or a seven inch or whatever the first new lows thing when that came out We listened. I think it was just a seven inch. We listened to it non-stop Yeah, I love the lp too harvest the car. It's what is the lp harvest of the carcass or is that a song on the lp? It was literally it would be the to y demo the new new lows like back and forth Because they were like get the fuck out of here And i'm pretty sure it was the homey think I care writing That first one. Yeah, it was dug free dfj I think I think you're right Come on New lows rocks if you don't know new lows check out those all do respect to them It's got to be ceremony. Yeah. Yeah ceremony A meteor Legit meteor. Yeah, and so much so such a dynamic discography Discography, uh We talked about it with anthony when we spent the day with him But like dressing and performing how he did at that time and touring Was scary. That's that's a that's a difficult thing to do Today it would be a difficult thing to do at the time. It was Quite a bit, you know, and they he fucking owned it. They owned it. They went off hard They they killed Dude, we did a we did a tour. It was have heart blacklisted ceremony let down and convicted ceremony like kind of stole the show every night, you know Unmatched energy. Yeah ahead of their time in many ways Ceremony wins here. Yeah. Oh man big one for me, uh cold world versus donnie brook I'm from california. Yeah So donnie brook is uh Second mate that the songs are so ingrained in my brain at this point. Well, yeah That they're just part now and now especially but uh Donnie brook Both great bands I had the donnie brook seven inch in the back of a car and it warped in the sun. Nice got it at a uh A chicago heist that turned into the rumble saw them play one time liked them Didn't get it, you know too young 15 16. You see him now with dre and martin singing I think I would get it. You know what I mean Yeah, cold world one of the biggest hardcore bands Of the decade and like kind of still this is the weird thing is the 2010s and 2020s Didn't haven't yet produced a lot of headliners Oh interesting interesting the the 2000s Are still kind of headlining stuff when they're when they're when they're in there when they're in the mix. Mm-hmm I think that's changing now. You know with like drain tsunami speed Yeah, turn style is obviously the exception to every rule But like a lot of a lot of festival headliners are are in in this list and and the 90s and obviously the 80s Very good point Cold world is a festival headliner Absolutely and we're at the time Donnie brook I love so much This is hard for me. Yeah, I think it's cold world if you consider everything And impact. I think it has to be having played for donnie brook. Uh-huh. I will I will pardon my bias and agree with you It's it is tough when it's a southern california band. Yeah big time seeing him a billion times Been so terrified, but the biggest relief while seeing donnie brook Is that drae was on the stage? He was on the stage. Yeah, he's not out there. It was it was honestly A very there a donnie brook pit as long as you were pitting was a very safe place to be as long as quarry williams was Not pitting or on stage Pitting for donnie brook was was a safe place to be Yeah, I mean you had some fucking scumbags in there for sure but But as long as you were about it and you were You were really participating you're gonna be all right But drae being on stage and not moshing near me was always really Not being from either place wilkes-bear or southern california. Yeah, I I think it it's I think it has to go to cold world. Okay Next round is a is a is a bias. I will not I'm I'm no bias here Hmm piece by piece Mm-hmm, which is it's a shame that donnie brook didn't win because that would be interesting That would be fun piece by piece is one of the greatest bands of all time piece by piece is a top 10 los angeles hardcore band in history And they're against the sky here all due respect to reach the sky. They were again on the bracket immediately obvious 2000s pick piece by piece Is better than the rolling stones to me I And I think this is the man I was talking about where much like think I care They're not conventionally hard in the way you would think hard is now They're harder than any beatdown band without doing any of that kind of thing. Yeah Every song holds up It's piece by piece I'm fine with that I saw reach this guy one time I didn't again I didn't connect with it because it was like kind of melodic like I didn't I didn't Yeah, there's there's like an amazing core element to it. You know, yeah very but then The singer went on to do a band called stand accused And the stand accused demo is fucking awesome if you know about that I that was a demo that I carried in my backpack at school That's all because I was like I ordered it, you know, and it was awesome. So check that out great band reach this guy Great band No disrespect intended because they are on here again, which we want that to mean something, you know Piece by piece is one of the greatest bands of all time Some would say better than the rolling stones. Someone say better than the rolling stones I think one of the most underrated bands in history put on The we've lost it all comp record. It's unbelievable the intro you'll be like, what does this band sound like? I don't understand and then it kicks in and it's just hardcore hardcore hardcore hardcore hardcore Pit pit pit pit pit the best lyrics coolest vibe piece by piece next up mental when a boston's finest Versus extortion australia's finest um So when we're talking about This era Yeah I didn't know about extortion, of course not mental mental were the Beatles for real like Every time they came to chicago. It was the best show of the year every fucking time They ran shit. There was nothing cooler everywhere everywhere. There was nothing cooler than their songwriting the merch the artwork Fucking like I don't know Locking out like all that shit like everything about it was just oh, that's the coolest thing in the world I was so into locking out in boston hardcore at the time. I thought I was going to go to school in boston Just because you loved dfj. I was like I was like, yeah, I was like well, obviously the scene rocks like so that's cool I'll just go to boston I got really truly planned on it. Then I didn't get into a single college. Oh you applied to him I applied to quite a few colleges for some reason. I never even bothered. I mean, it's mental It's it's mental here, but I want to give extortion their flowers because they are such an incredible band crusty Legends still rocking to this day. Aaron osborne is in the band now. Aaron's going. What are you darren? He's pissed. It's mental mental mental another decade defining band and they're they're demot they're uh Them going away is still being mourned, you know, dude. Also planet mental fucking awesome record many tracks When it came out Weird when it came out people are like, oh, it was very different It's awesome. I love that record Love i think Mike. Sorry. It was a big planet mental guy if i'm if i'm not mistaken If this is mental Yes, country mile, but country I wanted australian representation Extortion such a great band and here we continue okay tragedy Versus 86 mentality listen I'm I was never like a big crust guy Stadium crust. Oh, you're doing listen on behalf of 86 mentality. I love those. Oh man. It's it is tragedy I I don't think I can really argue that You know what I mean? I love those seven inches terrible is unbelievable great band captured that time and 86 so well. Yeah Holds up so well. It actually I actually listened to it like last winter, which is very recent for something like that You know, they were a brief Brief band. Yeah, um, I remember God I saw um, oh I mentioned that I saw them and justice Mm-hmm Dead stop also toured with 86 mentality dead stop and rise of all played Chicago Dead stop played the 86 mentality intro just to do it and the room Went fucking insane a very fond memory of mine a plasky park district in Chicago. That's awesome. All that being said I know tragedy is like The american one of the greats. Yeah. Yeah them and from ashes rise who we'll talk about soon Uh crust hardcore pioneers legends and did the burning spirit thing As good as the burning spirit bands So it's tragedy fine. Listen They're all they made it, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah Also, I mean they had I think they legitimately had two seven inches and that was it Yeah, and tragedy have fucking like eight lps. Yeah, and they're all good Oh Yeah, this is tough one Because it's not american nightmare versus first blood first blood demo dude Dude, this is you know, what's funny about this? This is our first like Era like genre defining era defining matchup. Yeah, because first blood was synonymous at this time With every other band we're talking about that demo and the split It's I mean it was like terror and piece by piece continued with carl singing, right? But but like With an insanely hard hate breed twist Dude, all and the lps wild. I like I like songs on it for sure. Yeah, it's wild it the the sampling on the demo all the Rambo shit, so it's like the Shhh I actually just got chills that that part is incredible. I like I really do like first blood and I loved american nightmare. Yeah loved american nightmare Uh, I haven't listened to background music in a minute, but I mean still goes Yeah, I know it does, you know, and I just think men they were very important to me They were like headliners too like legit still are you know, I think it's an For sure I completely agree good. I'm glad I'm glad Here we go. Oh no Yeah, this is a tough one. This is a tough one for you. I feel like it's okay two bands you love rise and fall versus the killer now Any of my any of my chicago heads you'll notice a lack of chicago hardcore bands and chicago punk bands But I think we're being fair because it would be a little too bow chicago biased so shout out obviously to Punch the face wound up 14 to fight the repos Sidewalk plan of attack expired youth all the bands who you might be like what about I know But then it's like all right. Yeah, take out iron age and put plan of attack, you know, exactly a little disingenuous Exactly, so I don't want to do that I'm trying to be as objective as we can the killer Are to me the most important chicago hardcore band that I lived through an experience I've I've been a champion of theirs on the show since the start. We are certified killers over here I'll never forget one of the first times I went to to the old house in van nye seeing the demo tape Just on the window so I'm being like, huh? They know about the killer. Yeah, absolutely Love the killer. There would be no harm's way without the killer The most respect for that band and they know it rise and fall the the hellmouth seven inch into oblivion And in circles I I I grew to really like that record. What was the what was the single between it? Was it clawing? Oh, oh, yeah, dude. I love the way he said that word clawing It was like clawing. Yeah, it's just really there's something sometimes when the accent comes out I really connect with it even harder into oblivion if you guys haven't listened to rise and fall into oblivion For me as a young person getting more and more into hardcore was like, oh, there's hardcore in europe Oh, this exists there Into oblivion from second one Yeah, to the very very end is a perfect fucking record. I cannot Give it Enough praise like I love that band got to see him got to tour with him a couple times One of the greatest group of guys I've ever met still friends of this day I I love this band. I love this band, you know me too. Saw them a lot had a lot of merch Yeah, the brown shirt with the gold come on Goaded dude every man. I'm going the killer Why are you doing this to me? Okay, call anyone not from chicago I'd be happy to I need the record to be shown That i'm picking the killer and you're doing this just to be a little fucker. No, i'm not i'm picking the killer You think better to be judged is a Better or more impactful record than into oblivion. I think I listen to it more. I think I listen to it more. I think uh Not all who wonder are lost smokes everything What sucks about this Is when you call someone they're gonna assume i'm going for the killer. Uh-huh. It's misrepresentation This is tough because we pitted two of your favorite things against each other like truly two of my favorite bands so like Either way, I guess i'm happy But I know you're doing this just to be a I think here's the thing realistically I think anybody we call is saying rise and fall. Yeah, therefore we'll skip the call Okay, but I picked the killer And on that note our left side is complete Our winners are converge bitter end Trapped under ice shattered realm frempt it carry on pulling teeth iron age no warning ceremony cold world piece by piece mental tragedy american nightmare and Rise and fall what a doozy, baby a lot of great bands in the dust here Yeah, but now we're getting into like every one of these could be day one of a fest and just Smash this fest that I just list. Yeah. Yeah sold out In an hour Okay, let's get to the right side here. Yeah Oh interesting Oh First matchup is down to nothing versus wisdom and chains Two bands that their their respective fan base Would say are the band, you know what I mean? Like people in richman. They're gonna say it's down to nothing Down to nothing. We're the kings of richman people in the state of pennsylvania are gonna say no no Wisdom and chains is the band, you know. Yeah, very interesting. Tell you what man down to nothing Had some of the craziest sets I've ever seen yes The production is the same dude who did blood for blood on a lot of those records So they sound exactly like the blood for blood records and that means they sound very good straight edge Not anymore Wisdom and chains This is a tough one. I don't really I don't really have a dog in the fight I I think I think and We're not talking impact, but dtn is like Fest water liner across around the world probably I Love I love wisdom and chains again toured with him without hearing a song By the end of the tour. I knew every word to every song without ever listening to the studio recordings of them. That's unbelievable But I think this is dtn Okay, I think that's fair I think just It is what it is. Yeah, okay have heart versus stop and think I love stop and think both demos both demos love Have heart What's funny is in this era when did things we carry come out? 2005 maybe Oh, is it is it that or five or six? I thought the seven inch was 2007. I thought I thought Oh, I think I think things we carry right. You're right. Is six probably I remember listening to it while I was driving a car that I had it because isn't songs to scream at my son like 2008 Yeah, that makes sense. Okay I love stop and think have heart the It's have heart like they're just fucking drew 10,000 people in Worcester, Massachusetts Exactly at a regular ass show And it's funny because when they were first Around I've told this on the show before like they toured on the seven inch and there were seven people paid in chicago Seven I mean, they're about 800 and chain reaction When they whenever they would play the cap is like 140 My my my point was uh, it's interesting that at first they weren't quite A national thing yet, you know, but then but then immediately became the worldwide thing Yes, they were the first band they played burning fight and they were getting ready To leave for like a world tour Yeah, like that big world tour the the last thing that they did before they like broke up. I think and that was like I didn't know hardcore bands could do that. I mean, I don't think anybody did. Yeah, they played like africa Yeah, you know and it was we talk about it extensively on our amazing episode from many years ago with pat flynn go back and it's very good stop and think What an underrated band very underrated Would have loved to have seen them go farther Yeah But again, that's this list is this brackets out of our hands Carrie made it not us so Yeah, carry our carry It's half hard here. Yeah, stop and think great band go listen to both of them demos right now It's on one record together called both demos Up next we got cursed versus count me out. This is a really cool Uh Opposition of styles here I wonder yeah, we should call like foster or somebody like just just a way in This is certified freezing cold canadian dark crusty hc versus count me out capital hc Pretty melodic pretty melodic, but very straight edge very straight edge. I like that Count me out It's count me out. It's count me out. I 100% 100% Skank best yeah. Yeah, come on dude count me out was such a cool Kind of a flash in the pan band not in the derogatory sense just like they weren't around that long I never got to see him wish it did Uh, very cool band. It's definitely coming up. It's count me out I'll do respect to cursed. I hear that they were one of the first to really uh, use the I mean the canadian like music grant system Oh Is such an insane thing to us americans. Yeah that canada just wants art and wants to support art I always heard that curse like got a ban or something. I don't know this is all here say but I wish we had them them grants. I wish I was canadian stout versus dead stop up next baltimore's finest versus One of europe's finest ever again though Dead stop wasn't around that long right pretty but my god What a sick band. Yeah, uh, belgium man. They just They get it. They just had a thing. I love belgium. Yeah, it's crazy um Stout, I mean, it's funny Now I think it's I think my mind would say stout at the time when early 2000s. I would say dead stop I think stout's legend grows every day. Exactly. Yeah, exactly the mythology of stout is backed up by this insanely unique aggressive and shockingly The band is like High IQ hard music baltimore dude gut instinct next step up stout all these like dying fetus, you know, yeah Like this is these are peers And these are these like brilliant Secretly brilliant musicians other than dying fetus who's obviously right Writing writing hardcore in a way that I've never heard outside of baltimore interesting It's it's gotta be stout here. I I fully agree. Yeah dead stop. What a band Yeah, it's that yeah sleep it's just one of the greatest records I've ever written and that's a fact partner's interruption. We hate to interrupt this uh Uh Fiery debate surely that's happening. 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I've actually ever seen it's it's incredible ball knowers buy ball knowers Vic I've known for half of my life now He is uh, uh, he's a he's a hardcore lifer. He's put in the work He knows everything about every shirts if you have a question just send the shop a message He wants to buy your stuff too. So send him some pics. He'll take it off your hands We'll get it from you. If you're in new york or LA stop by the store get something in person try it on That's right for anybody who saw our episodes with speed or chappelle lacy We visited the varsity location in california and we visited mills vintage. We went through everything in there. I've given this man My life savings. I don't have a 401k. I have 401,000 shirts from mills vintage and our beloved mad vintage So visit mills vintage Usa.com and use code hard lore to get 15 off site wide on some of the greatest Hardcore punk metal shirts ever made. Okay come back kid Versus ramalla. I think we're gonna be at an impasse on this one big time because because I love ramalla truthfully but the demo And is it turn it around was the first LP and then a lot of people ride for the next one the wake the death I mean that was like kids in my high school were like wearing comeback kids shirts and I seen them at fucking I seen them in Justin Bieber shirts the week before you know, right? The way that the way they crossed over is truly insane To me, it's ramalla. No question. Yeah to me. It's it's for what we're talking about We're not talking about preference for me. I think it has to be come back in Who the fuck did we call for this? No one no one from the east No one east of chicago is allowed to weigh in on that. So what's the furthest? Who's do we know anybody in seattle? Like yeah, they I think that I mean how about how about uh, all though from human garbage No, no, he's gonna say ramalla. I think you'd be surprised. Okay. Here we go All right, everybody. We've got all though from human garbage here The mayor of san fernando valley one of the greatest people to ever live although we are Tasking you with something very important We are doing a bracket to crown the best 2000s hardcore band of all time Okay, and we're stuck at an impasse on comeback kid versus ramalla Now explain the decision. Yeah, so I pick I picked ramalla Bo picked comeback kid. This isn't this isn't like who's most popular or preface who this is just the best man And there you have it and you and you were you that you were there We were there some of the craziest shows. Yeah ramalla. I never got to experience sex I was like more east coasting You know, um, I don't think they ever came out to a lay they did they played a matinee with righteous jams I think shattered realm and uh I must have been like 15. We were we were young. Yeah, I remember jeff gunnells had a a bunch of colds life stuff at the table It was amazing. Yeah But all right, I talked on that kid a shit a lot of times and they always swear it in saint shows I Agree. Thank you all though. I appreciate you. See you Yeah Yeah, I told you I told you I I stand corrected, but I'm glad he said that Listen, but dude butter whimper and kill celebrity Dude this day dude. I listen to him all the time ramalla legitimately has one of the heaviest riffs ever written which one Lani Which song is that? Unbelievable man. Love so much. I understand comeback kid winning here. Yeah, let's go to our next bracket. Okay Terror versus betrayed. Listen, you knew it was gonna happen. This is double t txj here Yeah, I know so it is what it is. Terror wins Of course the trade to is somehow one of the only melodic hardcore bands that like I really connected with growing up Like jint like it was so straight edge and it was so It was the exact kind of angst I was feeling a ram amazing frontman Terror is Michael Jordan I mean truly like I fear for any of my favorite bands being put against terror because it's a tough it's a tough day for any band against terror Okay cruel hand versus world collapse huh Fascinating right that's a weird one. Uh, I think it's got to be cruel hand on what basis? on the basis of all the all the like The amount of music the impact The longevity of the band, you know what I mean? How how often are you putting on dutchland dutchland into the night versus praying eyes? But that's not what we're talking about. Is it not? I'm listening to ramalla way more than I listened to comeback kid So what are we doing? That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the best one. It's not preference now It's the best one I think no because if it was preference if it was the best one ever then we'd be talking about ruin or modern life It's war and who wants to do that? wait, why The hell are you talking about? What is happening on this show to me to me? This is world collapse. Nobody's gonna agree with me Nobody's gonna like I like I like world collapse I would probably sooner listen to world collapse than a lot of these bands now, but that's not I toured with cruel hand At their absolute peak and it was amazing every night stole the show Sold all the merch in the world have the craziest sets I've ever seen I love our collapse so much. So do I dude, but that's that's just that's not what we're talking about. Is it not? Is this not our show or we make the rules you're off your rocker call anyone I am firmly on this rocker right now rocking rocking world collapse 24 7 Call anyone everything is gone I love it. I love it. Call anyone Yeah, call Andrew Baker see what happens Your world getting collapsed motherfucker That's all right fine. It's cruel hand, but it but it's world collapse, but it's cruel hand and listen I get it. Yeah prying eyes changed everyone around me. Exactly I I Cruel hand frustrated me until I toured with them and played with them a bunch Because I saw them they were playing like Yeah, that's see you doing that's the first thing you think of but I'm looking on stage and they're wearing like crumb suckers shirts right and I'm I'm ripping off crumb suckers at the same time Being like and I'm like I'm like, what what do they like? Who is this and then I guess you know, then I'm like and everything makes sense I understand this is this obviously cruel hands should win here. Okay. Thank you But I love world collapse Only Unbelievable if you guys haven't listened to that Listen to that door sign door sign into the night Great masterpiece outbreak versus guns up this is an awesome one because this is Two-thousands personify. I was just thinking the other day about and we talked about it a little bit with skull, but outbreak Fucking Ranshit dude, they were Because they I think they had a video. Oh, it's funny that we were just talking about cruel hand too We had a video or they had a video from one of the paussie guys It was like oh 405 paussie numbers where they played that Dan and and and and and and like the whole room The entire room is going insane and I remember watching it on YouTube and like Just being like oh well there they are the biggest band They that the outbreak and the your scum shirt legit ran the world until one day they just didn't anymore Yeah, it was kind of the same for guns up Yeah, yeah guns up It's funny. I Remember hearing guns up and people being like oh, they're they're ripping off in tuned or they're ripping off this or they're No warning like they're doing this stuff But meanwhile like all of us in our band. We were doing the same exact thing with every other band that existed You know what I mean? So it was like a well. Yeah Yeah, we all yeah, that's what we do but I was 15 But yeah, I get what you mean was there a little resentment there a little bit Yeah, just cuz well just cuz I because there's your saying like yet. You are ripping off in tune. You still sound like no warrant Yeah, kind of to me in retrospect pretty impressive awesome at the time. I was like it's not for me. I Got you. I fully agree It's outbreak. I think it's guns up Realistically, I do think better band I Know I'm crazy. Yeah, this is this is I do think like a like of just a better band I Don't also Don't care to spend the time on I mean like this is not something I'm like be like come on man Yeah, you know So if you're saying outbreak, I'm fine with it I think it's I think it's outbreak and that that just gives us the fun cruel hand versus outbreak True very true. That's fun That's fun. I will be objective. Okay Well, this sucks for them. Yeah, it does hundred demons versus go it alone. It's obviously hundred demons. Yeah go it alone is It's the I mean the drummer of a lifeless plagues absolute ripper dude Wow Absolute ripper and you can hear it because he does the bat All the time and that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah his thing. So the drumming on this is like Unbelievable sick band melodic HC very of the time and Following band with fucking black breath. Yeah, you know what I go one or two of the guys. I mean crazy very talented Very talented Hundred demons is the hardest band of all time. It's it's hundred demons dude. Yeah calm on I am Anxiously awaiting the new music. Oh my god. I am I love how open they're being about it Yeah, we just recorded hell of songs me too. It's awesome. I can I've heard some stuff Okay, I've heard some stuff Very excited one of the songs I put on and I just sat there thinking They've done it and what's funny too man is is like in the eyes of the Lord Kind of a different thing Self-titled the very different sounding records, you know, both you win both. Yeah, both would win exact exactly my point Fantastic, oh a battle of Boston once again. Yeah righteous jams Versus suicide file. That's a this is a really tough one for me. This is right in my wheelhouse. Oh, this is right to stand all day I think so But suicide file were here's the thing about suicide file. I'm writing racist jams. Okay Here's the thing about suicide file. They were very political. Yeah. Yeah in a way that was like ahead of their time because it was like it was like not cool and and but also not annoying not like preachy It made me go like well, who is Ashcroft? I had to like look up these people. You know what I mean? Yeah really and like dude was a history teacher Niraj is in Hope con and this and he's a Chicago IQ hardcore music. Hi. Yeah, very much so so all Derespective suicide file. I love suicide file in the 2000s. It was not what I was looking for at the time Okay, I've grown to appreciate it righteous jams Was like I lived and breathed for it righteous jams Oh, I want I've been wanting to tell the story for a long time. They played the Knights of Columbus with Colonova, Arabia and They played their whole set and and they were like alright, thanks. We were righteous jams people wouldn't stop Going side-to-side and they were saying one more song and they wouldn't stop I remember he said we don't know any more songs like that was all of our songs and Crucial Kyle said play one again. They played busted again They just did it again. It was fucking awesome Amazing great what a van that's there's a rage of discipline. I will enter into There's only so many bands that that Have not come back, you know the list is very short, but I think I Like I like that when bands don't come back me. I mean me too it leaves like think about we were just talking about about straight ahead I'm glad straight ahead is coming back. I think it's cool Craig made me very excited about it. Yeah, but it still had that mystique. It had that thing of like oh, yeah 40 years You know, that's fucking awesome right just jams needs to wait another 30 20. Yeah. Yeah We're good to go up next internal affairs versus lights out You know, it's funny even at the time when I was like peak youth crew. I would still say internal affairs I always loved internal affairs lights out RBS OG RBS really great band internal affairs was a very early band for me that I Fully connected to entirely and every in all ways visually Musically, yeah, it felt like a Because these were like the cool older guys here Gotcha, you know, so I saw them and it was like this is the this is what I could be doing And it was internal affairs piece by piece terror, yeah so Hitting tithing to me. Yeah, love it big part of why why I'm still around is just watching bands like this at the time This is internal affairs. Yes agreed and it's another one of those bands. They got it all man fast aggressive good lyrics fun lyrics sometimes funny lyrics and like hard without being like Beat down another yeah another example of that. Yeah, very good Bain versus desperate measures Interesting matchup they just played recently they did Ryan when I was aged didn't did a did a quick I think they did never enough time. I've really liked desperate measures Really liked the seven inch. I had a shirt Good band young one Bain Bain I mean Bain was probably the first hardcore CD I bought give blood was probably the first one I bought freshman year, you know what I mean First band I ever toured with first US tour I ever did with Bain dude. I think it's Undeniably Bain. They were everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, they were huge. Yeah They count me out seven inch Give blood Come on or not caught me as I was can we start again? Sorry. Yeah Weird slip. I just yeah, and I've told the story like one of them wearing a Metallica shirt in that CD jacket Oh, yeah, maybe feel a firm. I was like, oh, it's okay for me to if like this huge hardcore band is blah blah blah Dude go to watch their Hellfest set. Oh, yeah, it's like 2005 Look man, they they didn't really stop running shit until they broke up Right, yeah, right. Yeah That's for measures great, man. Yeah, it's like that. They're on but it is Bain. Okay It is bad knuckle dust versus numb an international active war here This is possibly the greatest United Kingdom hardcore band of all time versus what the best example of Insanely hard Japanese hardcore knuckle dust II standard No shit, I didn't know that real shit dude doing all that and he fucking standard. Yeah, it's crazy Man, I've seen numb once we played with him one time in Tokyo numb still kind of blows my mind. Yeah. Yeah Like those are those are Mosh scientists. I think knuckle dust is so good. This is tough This is really tough. I think I got to go numb on this one. I'm with you It's not easy No, ah, but dude, you know, I didn't know numb does these time signature things that I didn't I didn't even know they existed at the time I did know knuckle dust existed at the time. Well, you weren't Googling Japanese Mosh style No, I seriously I did remember I watched that but You're right. I wasn't going out of my you watched it, but you didn't study it. I didn't live it. Yeah. Yeah Me when like I remember in 2004 or five somebody being like, you know, Japan has Breakdowns me being like what? What and hearing numb and sand and All these other bands and just and being like this is this is everything I've ever wanted But I do love knuckle dust I think it's not okay. I apologize to the United Kingdom, but I'm psych knuckle dust is on here. I did the early like UK Bund him out beat down stuff. I could not believe as a young lad. I punished them all day on my space And if numb had my spaces, I would have been punishing them too. So Gotta be fair throwdown versus death before dishonor when I first heard the song true till death My death before dishonor. I of course assumed it was a straight-edge thing. It wasn't but I assumed it was I I must have had me about 15 dr. Peppers like I could not stop listening to that song iPod on repeat Dude friends family forever. Yeah masterpiece Holds up it does. What's the what's the one after that as it count me in? Oh, I'm not sure the hand on it so good It's a great fucking band Held it down also a band that like brought a lot of people together Very true. Still they were on b9 And still rocking Still rock and they are boston. You know, yeah Wrote and out and I'm from california OC throwdown at one point In the mid-2000s. Yeah Were the chromax yeah, this is a tough matchup legitimately legitimately very tough I was a bigger throwdown fan for sure. I think they I think they Haymaker yeah Was like of an overnight phenomenon. I Remember I went to Best Buy to get it like the day it came out, you know And it was available at Best Buy. Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, dude. It was like no joke It had a satisfaction-esque impact on hardcore immediately It was like oh, this is the next biggest band I Yeah, I love it. I Would I think I would pick throw it out. I think that's my Because but when you look at the full scope of the bank of each band throw down immediately was doing Pantera and Well not immediately I mean immediately dude the next one. What is the next one vendetta vendetta, but that's still like Ten years after Beyond Repair, you know, I mean like it's still like yeah, but it's oh set, you know, yeah They were it was Haymaker was a hit and they didn't do another Haymaker, but there's two LPs before Haymaker Yeah, like you can't you can't ignore them Those are great records. Yeah All right, it's right I'll do respect to death before dishonor what makes me sad though Hmm, and I mean no disrespect to the guys and throw it on and beyond repair out there is the Branching out and multi-band thing happening. Yeah, I don't like when that happens. That's 20. That's a 2020 decade issue I know I know I know I know but this is I Agree with you. It's just I just want to put it out there that it makes me sad when anybody does that the morbid angel I am morbid thing. Yeah, that's it makes me sad. Don't do that Figure it out friends. Yeah, make it work But I also when one is the full band Doing the song. Yeah, what are you gonna do blacklisted versus the Warriors? I like the Warriors Warriors War is hell Yeah Front to back bang. Yeah, I was a fan They got out there too. Definitely broke out over over Blacklisted One of the greatest bands of this certified festival. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's gotta be blacklisted. It's gotta be blacklisted Blacklisted had an LA a Philly and a Chicago record release Never before done in Believe it couldn't believe it. I also did I was I mean I didn't I didn't get The second Warriors LP. I didn't get it. Yeah, and I think I know a lot of my peers felt the same I think at one moment Warriors were like bound to be the biggest man many moments blacklisted carried the decade Yeah, not that that's what we're talking about. No, but but it is something to consider but I do think Peace on earth heavier than heaven beat goes on. Yeah The split oh man, come on game over From ashes rise versus allegiance. This is again Bad-fucking boat, right baby Audio siege from ashes rise Mm-hmm stadium crust pioneers Huge influence on one of my bands I'm Unbelievable holds up more than you would ever imagine allegiance RBS Many bangers saw him a thousand times pitted my little ass off From ashes rise just just has stuck with me more and held up harder For longer Yeah, I'd go from ashes rise. It's fine with me. I have no dog in that fight. I wasn't wasn't into either I Could get you and there we have it our right side round one Lord only an hour and 19 minutes in But this will go fast Right side run one down to nothing have heart count me out stout come back kid terror cruel hand outbreak Hundred demons righteous James internal affairs bane numb throw down Blacklisted from ashes rise Let's kick it off. All right left side round to yeah converge versus bitter end Converge of course come on all due respect You're going against Titan you're going against Goliath here you're going against like the band Of all bent dude. I mean yeah, yeah, everybody loves converge. Yeah gene jacket IPA drinking fucking dorks love converge Spin kicking freaks love converge Circle pitting freaks love converge. Yeah, skanking freaks love converge Yeah It's converge cats and dogs love converge Because they don't they don't know what he's saying either Trap under eyes versus shadow drop. It's got to be T. Y. It's T. Y Yeah We're moving now. We're cooking. Yeah, because well, I mean that just it just makes sense. You know, we're just is what it is Yeah, this is where this is now we're this this it's like the the John the era defining bands are gonna be very clear here Yes, agreed franted versus carrying on carry on I Love carry on I love franted. It's carry on. Okay good. I don't know enough about franted to argue So I wouldn't be able to I I get it Here's where a moment might be a tough one pulling teeth versus iron age. Yeah, I I Think for anyone from Texas they're gonna say that iron age should be winning the whole thing I think right now. I think this is iron age. You do. Okay. Yeah, and I think if you went track even just track for track objectively Iron age Had no peers that really sounded like that's very true neither does pulling Yeah, I was gonna say kind of not pulling teeth either, but I do think a lot of bands are still trying to sound like iron age Okay That's my piece. All right, no warning versus ceremony. That's actually really difficult. That's a fun one cuz Preferentially I just like No warning style of music more me to and did at the time But dude, this is a really cool two-side coin look at the at this decade. Yeah. Yeah It's really like no warning Ran ran shit early half of the decade kind of the first till somebody like ceremony came along, right and Dethrone them well no warning kind of dethrone themselves with themselves off which we love we love It's really like man, it's tough. I think I think I think I'm going no warning Okay, wow, I was gonna say I was gonna give it to ceremony, but I'll go with no warning I'm like kind of happy for either. Yeah Well, I love ceremony Always have you know, what's funny too is the argument can be made that like well after Rohnert Park like they they kind of change they weren't as like hardcore Right suffer survive is a departure as well, you know, so it's funny. They are an interesting was 20 cents Wow, so we're looking two thousands in The context of two thousands, okay No warning, okay cold world versus piece by piece I Know what you're gonna say a hundred percent. Yeah, so I'm fine with that because I do well You know what's so funny though is is I think oh war hungry was abandoned Yeah, we fucked that up That's just how it happens guys we just remember stuff in the moment. It's just how it works But the LP came out in the in the tents. That's true That's true and a lot of them a lot of the consideration here was first LP in the two thousand. Yeah, you're right good point Sorry war hungry. I think a lot of the the people from like Northeastern Pennsylvania And in that area they're all gonna say that like cold cold world was the piece by piece or was the Iron Age of their area But but way bigger way more influential and like you many could say Made way for title fight to come and and change music great point a piece by piece Better than the Rolling Stones. I think it would be unbelievably biased if piece by piece won this bracket Okay But isn't that what this shows all No, I think I think it's cold world and I think that's objectively true I'm sorry you did it to yourself I'm trying to think if I should challenge I Don't know who I would call though, right? It is a good matchup to be honest with you. It's a really fun matchup Yeah, it's very time and place think about this dude Tara's first show supporting piece by piece Or second show or something yeah, I Love piece by piece so much I Had the seven is right when it came out, you know, I remember I was I was in Awesome, but alright. I don't want to hear the bullshit, you know Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah piece by piece over cold world. I don't want to hear it That's I I'm I'm I'm a piece by piece guy and it is what it is, but I'll give it up to cold world Here's a fun one mental versus tragedy Now that's an interesting one now here I'll put I'll plant my flag here for tragedy really yeah I'll do respect I'll do anybody all right call Somebody who's who who cares about the thing that this show is about which is hardcore not fucking crust Stadium Anthemic nonsense. I'll let you pick You'll let me nobody nobody in Hermsway What about what about former members the hell now what's funny yeah, yeah, call caution caution yeah Who? Hofacker too he would pick tragedy Who's good who's an objective bear? minded individual here You think Bob? He responded so he's like available, but I feel like he might be not crust-pilled you know I Think he's a he's a dynamic guy. He is should we call let's call Bob. I'll Bob I'll call now remember we're talking hardcore bands. That's the name of the brackets a hardcore band Okay, just word it that way All right Bob We've got Bob Wilson here Fy fs. I'm sure most of us are on our way there as we speak Bob we've got a fucking doozy for you All right, we are crowning the best 2000s hardcore band of all time We're at an impasse in the in the the the twilight of the second round and We're tasked tasking you to break this tie between mental and Tragedy Jesus Christ Fuck dude I Mean if we're going I obviously love tragedy Avengers is one of the best records ever, but you gotta go mental. I'm sorry All right, I Get listen I get it, but that's the fun of this show isn't it nice? Yeah I'm sorry. Oh you you did what? Thank you Bob see you in a few hours by That's fun that was good. Yeah, that's all it's mental Listen, I get it. I don't think mental is winning. Don't get me wrong, but They're I think dude. I just think tragedy could win a like best 2000s music Which if that's what we were doing then it would be a different discussion That's not what we're doing It's not music lore. It's hard lore baby. Here we go American nightmare versus rise and fall American I'm there we go. There you go. I mean it just it just is you know what I mean Yeah, so our left side round two winners and converge trapped under ice carry on Iron Age no warning cold world mental and American nightmare. Wow. That's a good. That's fun I like it. All right, right side round two here. We go down to nothing versus have heart similar how interesting Similar, you know straight edge Ideologies two bands. I really agree with every time they say something One band is screaming at their son one band is screaming Into the into the J the son over the James River It's have heart here, right? It's have heart. Yeah Yep, I mean I have hard is like the band of Boston for the last however years Despite the hiatus, you know, oh change nothing only made them more popular. We got count me out versus stout It's fucking stout. Okay Thank you It's absolutely stout I would for sure pick out me out just for the record But I wasn't into stout at the time so I can't really yeah, you know, I mean Yeah, but I think the way that stout has held up and the way the legend has grown every day dude Permanent sounds fucking awesome. It's great. But that like I also think it that's like certified melodic hc Yeah, but some of them get passes have hard kids pass. I agree. I don't know To this like I'll put on stout right now and be like wow this has not aged today Gotcha come back kid versus Tara Sorry come back in I love you the people love you so it's out of great It's terror it's there. It's always there Cruel hand. This is a cue. This is a crazy one. Yeah, you know the lore This is this is inter these are the same kind of some of the same guys cruel hand versus outbreak Portland, Maine versus Portland, Maine I think because of all the considerations we had when we were talking about cruel hand Versus world collapse It has to be cruel him earlier. I said outbreak ran shit until one day they didn't that next day Yeah, cruel hand it. Yeah It's cruel hand for sure 100 demons Versus righteous James. I think it's got to be demons. It's got to be Do respect to the giant to the RJs and I Righteous gems was like legitimately one of my favorite bands when they were around like during this time period I couldn't as I've said could not get enough of that Boston Dfj locking out stuff. Yeah 100 demons has anything held up as as good, you know, well, it's just so interesting to that like You get two flavors. Yeah You get fucking Coca-Cola and yeah, yeah That is actually what it's like. It's crazy. Wow Yeah, it's it's 100 internal affairs versus Bain Now how objective can you be here Colin? I wonder I can't I can't be Yeah It like yeah, Bain made a bigger impact. I Know every lyric to every internal fair song And I always will This is this I have a clear bias here. I say internal affairs Yeah, the best the best up, you know, what are you putting on between the two right now right now? Internal affairs for sure. I think we have our winner All right, I don't think it's true But what does true mean? We do this every time we do these brackets where we like we have This is what we're talking about and then the the the whole wide and I'm always just talking about the best What does that mean Colin means who's better? What does better mean who's doper What would you rather put on right now? I think that means something okay fair Am I wrong? I'm with it and I was that was they was talking to me dude to you and I didn't want to start again No, no, I want to move on I'm good with it numb. I'm so sorry numb versus throw down here. Come on. Listen. If you've never heard numb Yeah, press play They're gonna blow your mind And I'm Stop it stop it Stop it it's throw down of course numb is better I Know I think That was but on the edges strong the song Unbelievable weird song still strong Was some of them I think numb was just talking about I don't know what they're I know what they're saying Come on Nobody we call is gonna agree with me so I'll go through it. I'll give it to you because you're wrong about it Yes, okay, I think I'm so good numb rocks. It's so good I had a I got a long sleeve when we played with them And it was on a crazy Japanese blank and it fit like a small like it could never my fit you now Be fun all right blacklisted versus from ashes rice Blacklisted it has to be blacklisted we're talking about 2000s hardcore That's when from ashes rice existed This isn't about who's drawing more people at chain reaction. That's some of it what it's about we've considered best of who's better Blacklisted I Don't know blacklisted. I think blacklisted is incredible You're gonna pick from ashes rise never put out a record that their entire fan base turned on which record are you in Firing anyone past heavier than heaven that doesn't matter which as somebody who's done that I Know I know the pain no warning from ashes rise doesn't no warning did that for a lot of people Yeah, that's it's just not a consideration. That doesn't matter. Yeah, they're up against cold world, you know They're coming up. We're not there yet. If this is if this is listen if I'm filling out my bracket Yeah from ashes rise is winning. Okay, we got to call somebody because that's crazy Who we calling call somebody we're from ashes rise from I don't even know PNW Portland, okay, so just nobody from there and nobody from Philly obviously Okay, you got to tell me who you're gonna call because if you pick some Some music head I won't yeah, I won't I won't call a music head I Can't call my brother what about a Martin? That would be an interesting cuz he'd be pretty objective about it. Yeah Okay, ladies and gentlemen, we've got Martin Stewart here. He's gonna help us settle a quick debate Oh god, here we go. Yeah, it's time Martin. We are in the middle of the best 2000s hardcore band of all time bracket Okay, we're at an impasse deep in round two We're hoping you can settle it for us. I hope so blacklisted Versus from ashes rise. Oh Man, I mean, I love both of those bands a lot, but I I'm gonna stick to hardcore because to me from ashes rise is you know a little too crusty Stadium crust Are they not hardcore music? Martin stop it stop it You know, stop it objective, but in my opinion, I can see bow talking, but I can't hear anything He's saying stop it No, he's saying keep going keep going I personally wouldn't call them, you know a hardcore band, but I love them just as much But yeah, I'm going blacklist. It's Specifically because of a were unstoppable that that record is like flawless Front to back for me. Yeah, I'm with you. All right. Thank you so much Love you too. Bye. Bye Listen, I knew I knew it was coming. I just want I just want from ashes rise Great band obviously blacklist was gonna win. You're the worst person. I know Why you tried to be insane? Why? We're making a show baby. I need to make a show. I'll tell you what I'll listen to From ashes rise tonight on my drive. Okay Dude, you're gonna be like, what have I done? You know, you know, um Oppenheimer, you know that guy You're gonna feel a lot like him blacklisted wins and there we have it our second round winners from the right side are have heart stout terror cruel hand 100 demons internal affairs throw down and blacklisted Okay, now it's time for round three It's getting wet and wild out here and now we have this very first match up in round three is finals worthy Okay converge versus trap address. Yeah, like that is legitimately really difficult. I think To to find a winner here we must focus on the word hardcore Converge is so much more than that. You're right You're right Truly out of the box one of one Yep, original Dynamic creative one of a kind man Trappler eyes God tier hardcore music amazing songwriting Like to you I songwriting is bizarre and catchy and cool which can also be said about converge ironically But I fully agree with you. We're talking about hardcore. I don't think Kurt was ever getting up there thinking like, okay What's gonna make the kids spin kick or that's all to you guys? That's exactly right So I think I think for the sake of this discussion and that's exactly how I would like to frame it It should be Tui two thousands hardcore music. Yes, which converges More than much more than yeah Tui wins carry on versus iron age take a fucking guess buddy Yeah, I mean it's it is carry on yeah, and I think the impact that they made with a seven inch and LP impossible You know Really possible to do today Really crazy iron age Great seven inch two great LPs great singles highly influential to the blast 10 or 15 years Mm-hmm Yeah, that that for sure Carry on highly influential to the next to the last 25 years. Yes, exactly like all the There's a lot of shit that we cut off here that is just like bad carry on clones and And somehow that somehow carry on made work and all these other bands could not I think it is carry on. Yeah, I mean I know it's Karen. Yeah, I don't really I'm not I'm not an iron age guy. I just didn't it wasn't I never got it I guess I was a big carry on guy so carry on it is decided no warning Versus cold world. This is a tough one to not have my bias because I love no warning. I Like cold world. I love no warning. I think I think cold world LP I Think if you go LP for to it for LP, you know, yeah, then it then it's it is no warning Okay, good. I Agree with that like seven inch Demo seven inch LP demo seven inches where it's it's really tough Cuz ice grills cold world seven inch. Yeah, unbelievable genuine classic Changed changed the game No warning when you when you factor in ill blood it gets it gets a lot harder. I think I got to give it to no warning here Okay, I'm happy to agree with that. Okay for sure There we go. You know, it's funny as Billy Graziati recorded the cold world LP dedicated to babies Really? Yeah It's crazy very very clean record. Yeah, it's crazy mental versus American nightmare so That's hard I go in here just putting that out. I kind of think you have to oh Man, but then Planet Mental was so cool and I didn't I Didn't love down to our underground, you know, I didn't love to give up the ghost and on stuff really It's background music and the year one stuff But then Having that revelation the other day that a n is just kind of dark floor punch pause this right now if you're listening put on the ice age Cums or ice age cometh whatever the a n song is and then listen to changes by Floor punch. It's the same thing. It's just the same thing like kind of redone But dude, what's crazy about mental is like nothing sounds like that Yeah, they try in a crazy in a crazy way. It's hardcore That you cannot replicate and I think a lot of that is Is it Greg's the singer's name? Yeah, his voice his voice is so you need yeah unique for sure DFJ's drumming Like on do the greatest of all time this was this was like peak DFJ too in my opinion. I think it's where he kind of figured out I mean, I don't really know love to know his story someday I don't really know, you know exactly how that where that all came about but mental from the and you know this seven inch on And I don't know that's tough one. I think going a n Makes more sense because I do think Yeah, I think so I think so Okay That one hurt that was actually tough for me. That was tough. That was tough. So that means our round three winners are trapped under ice carry on No warning an American nightmare We're getting into like my favorite bands. Are we ready for right side round three have heart Versus stout Come on stout all day, baby. No Fucking I get it. I we're gonna give it to have hard here. Yeah. Yeah sheer impact depth of discography It is what it is straight edge, you know love that Groundbreaking band yeah, could headline anywhere in the world today and it'll sell out. Yeah stout is just this mythical Yeah, I love it. I love the legend, you know, yeah have heart wins. Okay. Oh no stout lost to have heart. Yeah Great job stout terror versus cruel hand. That's terror of course and and I think Singer of cruel hand who is now in terror would agree. I think hundred percent hundred percent, you know terror makes it once again 100 demons Versus internal affairs Demons, baby. It's demons. It's demons for sure. Yeah, this is both of my both of my heart biases Yeah, split in half Connecticut and LA just that I was I was Connecticut first Connecticut takes it here throw down versus blacklisted. I was a bigger throw down fan because when blacklisted was around and and Really doing stuff. I was also touring and playing Touring with them. I'm gonna say blacklisted. I would go black. Yeah, I think I just think that's objectively true All right, there we go. There we have it. Our that was fast. That was quick. Yeah Down to the wire here our right side round round three winners are have heart terror 100 demons and blacklisted Holy shit, all right guys, it's time For the quarterfinals Steven do a crazy graphic here Margaret from by my birdie and from grumpy old man All right, right left side quarterfinal trapped under ice Versus carry on so this is where the Size of the catalog has to come into play Longevity and depth must be a factor here and with that in mind it must be trapped under I fully I fully agree and I Love carry on both bands Created so many clones trapped under ice's Influence are now Festival headliners. Yes carry on the influences Are not on this bracket. Maybe that's maybe that's biased, but I don't think it is there. They're nowhere to be seen carry on one of the greatest bands Ever like probably one of the bands ever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sure It must be to you. Yep agreed No warning Versus American nightmare. Now, that's interesting. I'm gonna go no warning me too Perfect. I did not want to argue about that one because I don't know why I don't know why I Mean, I think you look at us now and what we like and we love Mad Ball, you know, yeah Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you this. I know every word to ill blood Yeah front to back I'm not smart enough to know every word on background music I do think I don't like a lot of music that sounds like a yet. No, I love a yet. Yeah Kind of melodic, it's weird kind of melodic, but in a hard aggressive way. Yeah, yeah, but no warning was just Capital H capital C until they were weird singing some 41 produced band which I still Incredible so that's put on scratch the skin off of suffer survive I Know the breakdown in scratch the skin is one of the heaviest things that they ever did Incredible. All right So that means our left side semi finals are trapping under ice versus no warning That's fun And our right side quarter finals We've got have heart versus terror. Hey, I think it depends On who you ask I'll let me ask you this which one of them didn't take a hiatus Terror, which one has their 12th LP on the way? terror Which one has 11 great LPs? Yeah, I just think like they never stopped They never stop they changed shit the second it came out and they have continued to set the standard for what hardcore is to this day They'll also support anybody and they were kind of one of the first bands to do that too to be like Oh billing doesn't matter Yeah, it doesn't matter. You're better than us cool. Get in front of people. Yeah, we'll do it awesome Yeah, it's it dude Yes, terror terror Have heart great work. You made it so far. You could have gone to the finals in other circumstances 100 demons versus blacklist Now this is tough because I would say demons, but I know there are people who would say blacklisted For sure, of course there are but they don't host this program Just because we agree doesn't mean we're right, you know No, but it's this is our show You're right. Okay. I'm trying to even think if if calling anybody's even worth it I think it's sure. Let's do it James would say demons. I know you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm sure there's look there's people are screaming at the phone saying Blacklisted for sure. I don't even the hardest hardcore band of all time Does that mean nothing All right, does that not mean they're one of the best I just wanted I Want the discussion to happen so I'm we did that so I'm fine because I just think blacklisted Importance kind of it can't be overstated cannot be downplayed. Yeah Unbelievably important band like I said heavier than heaven Oh an unmastered version of the album leaked on the internet. Yeah, and people loved it so much That they pre-ordered every copy of the record Out of like spite to this leak They were like damn this unmastered unfinished thing is unbelievable Let's buy every copy the motherfucker didn't wear George did not wear shoes for 10 years Jumping around nails spit everything on there. Oh, you're less I for an eye Unbelievable you will never roams the home that I've roam I'm sorry. I don't know that's the tongue twister Great George one of the greatest lyricists and frontmen of the decade 100 demons One of the hardest the hardest hardcore band. Yeah, I'm certified. Yeah. All right Demons that seems wrong and you know, this is all just seating, you know true that is true Like if half heart was somewhere else They'd probably be here right here if half heart was on the other side they could be in the finals Blacklisted versus demons is is honestly really difficult. That's a very difficult one. Yeah, that's fun. It's a fun show We should call some people just to see what they say. Yeah All right, we're here with a with a pitch black car Contains Josiah Hofflinger from criminal instinct Josiah we're in the middle of our best 2000s hardcore band bracket and We're you know, we already have our answer here, but we want to get some second opinions on this for fun okay, we are in The semi-finals here quarter finals here and one of the matchups is 100 demons versus blacklisted That's that's not that's 100 demons. There we go. We're just getting some second and third and fourth opinions here We made the break 100 demons already won this they already won, but we wanted to do we just wanted to get some words on it There we go Alright, thank you so much. Have a great day. See you. Oh, dude Jamie Morgan He's gonna pick blacklisted. I don't know That's good. Oh Sure. All right, let's get some perspectives here. Do demons He's in Chicago right now. You're calling him here. How you doing? Are you camera ready? I'm on camera All right, Jamie Morgan here Jamie we're in the middle of our 2000s hardcore band bracket We're in the quarter finals here Okay, we already have our answer here, but we just want some different perspectives on this next matchup All right 100 demons versus blacklisted I Don't go under demons Wow, okay PAHC going 100 D's But I fuck with blacklisted heavily. Yeah, and I love the fucking Weird strings one, you know, I love that you do I do that the violin part is so good The whole album is unbelievable and the world hated on it because it's a sick sick world That's exactly what I wanted to hear What can you do 100% true so we have to give in we have to give in thank you Jamie Have a great day Now I like what he said I like that he defended the record Should we get one more? Let's get one more if we go three for three. That's let's call Chris. I'll Chris I'll call him. I'll call him. He's always he's always doing shit, too. He might be busy. Oh, yes Are you are you camera ready? We have a question for you? I think I think you look beautiful I Put him in front of the microphone. Yeah, all right Chris Mills here everybody so handsome so handsome Chris We are doing a bracket for the best 2000s hardcore band so 2000 2010 We are in the quarter finals at this matchup and we're just getting opinions We just want an opinion we kind of already have our answer for this But we want to know what you think of this matchup and I know you're a fan of both bands We got 100 demons 100 of them versus blacklisted Yeah, that's a really hard one. Oh shit, um, you know what? Yeah, so yeah, I'm gonna go with 100 demons both LPs Incredible not a skit not one skip. I want to get by neither record And honestly, they just like sonically changed the game I mean I think about like that second L best second hundred demons. Yeah, L Yeah, it was like maybe one of the best sounding heavy hardcore records. I had heard yeah at that time. Yeah, yeah The stuff sounds unbelievable dude. I also got hit real quick I got hit with a n versus mental earlier and it like broke my brain broke my brain literally like two Very sentimental bands We went with a and we went we went with a and yeah, yeah, I would I would probably I probably do the same good just given like Just given when I first heard America and the trajectory that I kind of like set me on All right, you know perfect answers Christopher. Thank you so much. Thank you Chris See you soon. Bye. So thank you Chris. That was That was that was all we needed here. It's three for three for a hundred D's there you go hundred demons goes all the way There you go. That means our left side semifinal is Now oh no trapped under ice versus no warning and then the right side semifinal is terror versus 100 demons We can't do it just we can't do it to Scott Not again left side Traffin rice versus no warning traffic rice with Yeah, yeah, you know wait just did more did more Went out on top Came back on top and also kind of yeah and also kind of like spawned angel dust spawned turnstile You know what I mean like spawned the thing that were that we're all chasing everybody's chasing now to you I is still like Putting that on now. I hear something some new detail and nuance that I think like how did how did they know to do that? Yeah, yeah, I think I think that is just objectively true Traffin rice is going to the finals now Right side semifinal is terror versus 100 demons Hey, I think I think uh, I But I guess D. Just didn't really take a hiatus. They just didn't put out in a music they would play yeah, yeah But I still think I just it has to be terror. It has to be just some sheer consistency Unapologetically Unapologetically hardcore, you know, yeah, no there's no other like kind of metallic. Nope. Hardcore man. No except for the damage shamed Pretty pretty yeah, that's true. That's true. But aside from that capital h. A. R. D. C. L. R. E Terror advances to the finals Wow, and there we have it the destined matchup What I kind of knew it would be all along. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah trapped under ice Versus terror, you know who I think we should call about this James Vitallo Let's let's get our let's get our let's do our reason first here trapped under ice three LPs a Perfect seven inch a perfect demo terror a perfect demo a perfect 10 inch. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah perfect split and They're about to put out their 12th LP Well, and one with the underdogs is perfect, too. Oh, no, I mean I I think they're all unbelievable And then and then also just like the the resurgence with keepers of the faith, you know Traffin drives Genuine sea change Towards the end of the decade Yeah, one could say their efforts Really affected the 2010s more than the 2000s. I would say so but it brought what was happening in the 2000s to a screeching halt after San Amfuri 2008 Things were different. Yeah, but the life and death demo like Like the second I heard that it was just like oh, well, this is and then finding out too that it was the guy from Carry on the guy from carry on and the guy from buried alive. Yeah, you know what I mean and all the Y's Tui caused a an Overnight sea change in in hardcore as a whole terror with a demo changed what count the words California hardcore mint You know These are two two monumental groundbreaking bands My gut is terror. I agree That is when we decided to do this list That was my pick It kind of doesn't matter who they were seated against either Just kind of does it if it was half heart the answer would be even faster If it was who else could have made it to the end here, you know, yeah a n Terror wins no warning terror wins. Yeah, we're collapse Close but terror wins Yeah, I just I don't I just I That feels right They're the band Yeah, I think if this conversation if this was like 2000 to 2005 And then 2005 to 2010 this would be a little harder Okay, but overall Terror has never stopped for a second When did secrets of the world and because kennight come out secrets of the world? She has nine. Okay And then because kennight was 11. Yeah, that sounds about right. Okay So that's the thing a big kiss good night and then they were like, hey, we've got all these other bands now We're gonna take a break. Yeah, I think I think considering that too. You kind of Can't count big kiss good night. Kind of yeah It must be terror. It must be terror It do be terror Do we even bother calling? I I would it's funny by tallow. I would love to know his opinion on that um Let me call james Let's get james I have a fun idea. Okay. Let me see if I can pull this off Okay, I'm gonna call justice and then I'm gonna call scott. I want to hear what justice has to say about terror I want to hear what scott has to say about trapping drugs. You're a producer You know, you're a genius. Let's see if we can make this happen. Oh by tallow's calling me. This will be fun Why are we fucking got it? All right So we've got james by tallow here. He's calling and jake louisbury is there as well He's calling for the first time this episode james. I haven't seen you in so so long Hey, it's gonna see bud. We're in the finals now Who's that? We got a squad right now. Is that rick? big rick saying That's what's up. All right, give him the question All right, we're in the finals. That's not lights out verse nymph till i'm out It's not you're gonna be in no because we're in the finals And before I talk to those bands, I want to I want to get uh your thoughts on terror versus trapped under ah It's bias it is bias. Was that awesome? The finals i'm holding my rib in extreme pain right now because i've seen trapped under ice in LA a few weeks ago Terror is one of the most consistent hardcore bands ever I gotta say terror, but I love trapped under ice so much and it trapped under ice literally changed Hardcore the trajectory from amazing core to what it is now They deserve so much credit and respect and they're fucking incredible having said that I think that terror is maybe the most consistent hardcore band ever And anyone else being in the top of this list is a is a tragedy. I agree mental I've got scott vogel calling me as we speak. Thank you, james Scott vogel I need you to weigh in on something for me Does this happen to have to do with hardcore? It does. It's fun. It's a really fun thing Okay, here we go All right, we have terror vocalist scott vogel here scott We're in the middle of our best hardcore band of the 2000s bracket. We're at the end We're at the very end the finals Oh, no, the finals are terror and trapped under ice And I thought it would be fun For to hear your thoughts on trapped under ice as well as justice. Yeah Oh, man, you know, it's funny right when you were uh Talking about this. I got a text from patrick kitsul who is like The reason I found trapped under ice and many other people. He just wrote me again. It's a busky kitsul uh group text But uh, my thoughts on trapped under ice, man They should win give it to him perfect live band So much personality unique style All the records are great. Their demo is great and terror in the I would say about 2009 ish To 2012 we toured with them so much. So we got really close with them as people And they're just they're just amazing like just amazing. But I do I do want to say Even being number two is pretty fucking awesome. So It's pretty pretty cool to hear terror even in the running for this stuff. What else can I say about tui? What did I forget anything you want anything you've ever thought about them anything you've ever wanted to say What a bunch of fucking maniacs to what a bunch of maniacs Just the way a hardcore band supposed to be Couldn't agree more Thank you scott. We may be calling you back in a few minutes here All right, have a good one you too now I'm predicting Justice says give it to terror My towel calling me again. Hang on Hey, it's not really a fair question If it was 2000 To to 2010 I'd say terror yeah, 2010 and on 2010 and 2020 would be trapped in rice like you're asking me To hold on. Let's turn the heat off like you're asking me to pick between a band that I grew up listening to since I was 15 And a band that I met when I was 20 like it I I resent the question You can't you have to no you answered it you answered it whether you resent it or not The 2000s 2000 to 2010 Who is the best band from that era? Trapped in rice wasn't fully formed. They had a couple years therefore I get it what you guys are doing is great for hardcore music, but this is the bad Question no the first half of your sentence was was exactly the point Who else's eyes on there you'll see I can't you work two and a half hours in I can't use air time on this Oh, yeah, I'll be there But oh he can't hear me just screamed in your ears. Okay. Okay. Let's do it We have justice trip here trapped under ice angel desse hardcore Justice we're in the middle of crowning a winner for the best 2000s hardcore band of all time Oh, man, and we're down to the finals the finals are terror And trapped under ice Oh my god And I wanted I just got some words from scott about tui and I wanted to get some words from you about terror I'm wearing his hair straight right now That wasn't playing. That's what I was putting on Come on You just want me to give you some words about talk about talk terror to me There's Undeniably no band with more consistent releases. They've just been the top dogs For so long. It's it's it's a joke. They're michael jordan um You can have favorite releases from terror, but there's not a bad release from terror You've never seen terror play a bad show um It's I don't even think it's a competition, but I'm very flattered that Our name was put into that conversation. You know, that means a lot to me but Yeah, I mean I think you guys probably on the same page, right? That's that's the band Yeah yes but As the finalists we wanted to you know give you the time Yeah, and and I wanted to get your thoughts as the co finalist of Who are the who's the greatest? Just just want to throw this out there because I'm sure they were into discussion, but Just what I my favorite hardcore band. I think my favorite hardcore band of my lifetime Is criminal instinct pretty pretty flawless discography. I would I would say 2010s But okay, we're talking more specifically. Yeah the first the aughts in years. Yeah. Yeah. I mean Just that's my favorite band, but love it your favorite and the greatest are different conversations. It's like um is four is my favorite movie. No, is it the greatest movie? Yes Yeah, it's like there's there's no conversation about what hardcore band is greater than terror It's just like every band that you love the most growing up you find out that terror holds has It's just that it's and it's authentic and it's lasted a long time. It's just like again, they've been the the heavyweight champs for as long as I've been Really active in hardcore music and I I don't think it's ever gonna stop like I just think they keep getting cooler somehow and That's that's your answer. That's the winner. I don't even I don't know how it'd be like You're doing like a vote or something or I don't know what the deal is, but I'm telling you what the fucking answer is And it's there. It's just it there we go. There you have it. He said it and that's it. Thank you, justice Thank you. Have a great day. Love you bud. Love you too Isn't that beautiful Couldn't have said it better myself the the one of the finalists said that the other finalists is the winner And and so did the other one since so did the other one. Yeah, I think it's terror and I think we are uh I I just think it makes all the sense our winners terror The best two thousands hardcore band terror Who can argue that? No one And you shouldn't And you shouldn't So go through the discog today There's so much gold in there for you to discover and for you to enjoy and listen to all 64 of these bands and all the 64 that we forgot Yeah, put the war hungry. He'll be on you're gonna love it. Yep, but terror and trap in the rice our finalist today unbelievable game game changing groundbreaking bands Congrats to every band for being on here. Congrats to terror the winner best two thousands hardcore band of all time What a better way to ring in 2026, you know? Yeah It's We'll see you all at fya this weekend. You can tell us all about it who we missed and how mad you are Thank you all for watching We love you so much. Bye This episode is brought to you by mad vintage