Priscilla Shirer on Faith, Losing Family & Surviving Cancer | NXT Chapter with T.D. Jakes

This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. So if you had a chance to play beside Denzel, would you do it? It depends. If I had to be married to him, my husband might be like, yeah, now. What the heck? Hello, family. I'm TD Jakes, and I am the host of Next Chapter. And boy, have we got a special, special podcast for you. She is a woman whose voice has become a guiding light for millions around the world. And I don't mean that figuratively. She is a New York Times bestselling author, a powerhouse motivational speaker known for her depth, clarity, and conviction. She's also grace a big screen, starring in a number of high-grossing films that have inspired audiences globally. She continues to lead with passion, purpose, and authenticity. But beyond the spotlight, she is deeply grounded. Please welcome the magnificent, Facila Sharra. Thank you. Thank you. Who wrote that? Ha ha ha ha ha ha. All right, it wasn't enough said, really. It's absolutely amazing how you have done so many things with your life and been so used in such a dynamic way through so many different cultures and circles and denominations transcended every kind of barrier. How does it feel to be you? Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Very, very regular. Very regular. Because you know, I know my regular life. I'm doing laundry and trying to figure out what to cook these kids for dinner and stuff like that. Right, exactly. But I am grateful. It's been an adventure for sure. People don't know that people that they see on stage are really real people. Yeah. With real lives. And if you're not careful, they'll rob that from you and pick that away from you. And that's the best part of life, is not what you do on stage. It's what you do when you get off. Yes, it's easier for us to make caricatures out of people. You're right. In our imagination, what we perceive them to be. Right, good or bad. That's right. And we make a decision about people we don't even really know. And we've got a lot to cover. Just a whole lot. I've been waiting to talk to you. I've been waiting. So it's gonna be some really good things. Chapter one, daughter of a preacher. We're gonna talk about different chapters of your life. And I want to go back to the beginning. Before everybody knew you and you became a household name, you were a preacher's daughter. You don't think you're a household name. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're becoming... You can't do films and do movies and keep yourself a secret at the same time. Do interviews. Do your own talk shows. Show up everywhere. Preach all over the world and still remain anonymous. So you're the last one to realize it and your humility doesn't allow you to acknowledge it. But in reality, more and more people of different spheres, denominations, walks of life, are finding your message relative to their situations, solving problems, producing answers, and transcending barriers. I mean, you're showing up in every circle. You're not in any one circle. You're everywhere. I want to go back. I want to go all the way back to a little girl with pigtails in her hair and being a little girl and being a preacher's daughter. What was it like for you to grow up with your famous father and all that he has done and all that he has built right here in Dallas? What was it like to be a part of a preacher's family and grow up in that environment? Well, you know, that sort of a sphere, as you and your family know, it has its blessings and it has the responsibilities that sometimes can feel like burdens when you're in the fishbowl of it. But our family was incredibly playful. Dad is incredibly playful. So a lot of joking, a lot of getting on his back and riding horseback rides in the house and family talent show nights. We're just a very playful family. So while my parents believed in the scriptures and wanted us to honor God's word and all that, they also played. We grew up feeling like ministry is a fun place to be. Loving God doesn't rob the fun out of your life. And I'm grateful for that. They also had integrity, which I realized the older and older I get that that's actually rare that you've seen someone's life up close that actually for real loved Jesus and weren't just playing church. We saw that and I'm grateful for that. So they weren't perfect, my parents, but they played with us. They were consistent. They for real loved Jesus. And I think that's why all four of us still love the church and love his word, because we saw people who work for real. As you grow up and go through adolescence, you know, I think that Jesus, I think faith, I think maturity means different things at different stages and ages of life. Were there times that you felt pressured to be perfect? Yes, it's interesting. You're asking me that because even just yesterday, my youngest son and I were having this conversation that he's feeling that pressure from others on him. And I remember that feeling when a Sunday school teacher would point at me. Priscilla, you know the answer, don't you? You should know the answer. And I remember my mama, Lois Evans pulling the teacher aside and being like, no, no, she's a kid like everybody else. And mom freed us up from that because she would say to us, you are not the church's kid, you are our kid. You do not have a responsibility to rise up to their expectations. And she just set it point blank and it just freed us up to not feel the need to be what everybody else expected or wanted us to be. I'm grateful for that. Your mother was an amazing person. She was. Truly truly an amazing person. Yeah, thank you. Every time I ever encountered her, she was always, always gracious, always kind, always thoughtful, always a lady. You know, she was always a lady. Was there ever a time that you felt disappointed in yourself like you didn't live up to her expectations or the church's expectations or the world's expectations or your dad's expectations? And if so, how does one overcome being disappointed in oneself? Yes, there are many seasons I can point back to, one of them being in college when I, you know, kind of was out of the bubble of home life and church life and my life sort of being wrapped, bubble wrapped in this culture that my parents had cultivated for us. And I went off to college and disappointed myself because there were decisions that surprised me I was making, relationships I was allowing and in the moment of it, it's not even, some life decisions you look back in hindsight and regret, some of them you're in it. And you like, I knew before I said that, I shouldn't have said that. Right, right, right. And I shouldn't have allowed that. I remember being disappointed at myself in it. And just having to surround myself, I think this was honestly for me what helped was surrounding myself with people who reminded me that choice is not who you are. It's a choice you made. You have to rectify their consequences from it. But that's not who you are. And hearing them separate, the two reminded me that there's still something here that God can work with, there's still something here and useful despite the mess that I may have made, there's still something here worth pressing on toward. You know, one of the things I love about Aaron becoming the high priest, after having everybody dance and neck it around the calf, and then God chooses him to be the one that has access to the Holies of Holies. One of the things I take away from that text is the fact that some of the best preachers have had some of the worst experiences. And I think it's by design so that no matter how high you go, there's a certain humility there. Yeah, cause you know you. Yeah, right, exactly, exactly. You know who you are and you don't believe your own press. And yet anybody can come and talk to you who sees you now and can't imagine that you could relate to what they're going through. But God chooses people who are kin to the people they want to redeem. Yeah, yeah. Kinsman redeemers, kinswomen redeemers. It gives you a compassion. Cause you remember, you remember the feeling of being stuck or the sense that maybe it's unredeemable now and you see God's grace carrying you through so you can have compassion for where somebody's at. I think that's very important. I'm afraid of people who have never failed. I'm afraid of people who have always been perfect and there are no wrinkles and no spots anywhere. Why would God make him a high priest after he had miserably embarrassed Moses and God and everybody's dancing naked around an idolatry. They've broken the law before they ever got it. And God says, this is a guy I want to have access to me and the people and to bring Israel into my presence. And I think, I just think that no matter what they brought into Moses' tabernacle to offer up sins or oblations for, he could never turn up his nose. Right. Because he had made the kinds of mistakes that made him able to intercede for other people. Chapter number two, losing 10 family members. Do you find yourself to be the kind of person that other people can confide in and talk to in a way that they couldn't talk to had you not gone through the things you've been through? I think so. I think that my willingness to be open and vulnerable in an appropriate way to share in messages or in my writing what it is that has gone on in my life, even recently with, as you know, the losses we've had in our family. Sharing that grief, like losing mom and we lost 10 people actually in five years. Back to back. And I don't know what people's perception is that we just sort of went through that grief and we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps and we're okay. No, we turned our head and our eyes upward and say, God, are you for real? Right, right. And we cried all the tears and we're disappointed that we know he can heal and he chose not to on this side of heaven with mom in particular and then others in our family. So that's disappointing. That's hard. That's difficult. And yet we're choosing to fix our eyes on Jesus and to believe that he is still good and he's still kind, but to share the struggle, I think that has been helpful in folks realizing, oh, y'all grieve for real. Yeah, and we're struggling for real, but we believe in trust in God. I'm so glad you said that. I'm so glad you said that because we lost over a million people to COVID. We're losing people every day to shootings and killings and murders and people are burying their children. They're stuck between parents with Alzheimer's and children that are in the street getting shot. And everybody thinks y'all to just get over it. Y'all to just be okay. And they see people like your family who seem the epitome of strength and optimism and you sing and you worship and you clap your hands. And sometimes we feel like, how can you smile? I mean, even at your mother's funeral, you all were gracious and composed and like her. She probably wouldn't have it any other way. But it is nice to hear you say we cried. Oh, yeah. We heard, we suffered. I miss my mama. Yeah. I miss my mama. And because there are many people who are watching us right now who lost a husband, they've been married to for 50 years or a wife they've been married to for 30 years or a spouse they just married or a boyfriend or whatever. And they're struggling. They buried a baby. They've had a stillborn. They've gone through some terrible things. And they're angry. And they are asking God, why? How do you resolve that? Are you still in the process of resolving that? Losing that many people that quickly? Are you still in process? How do you talk to you? That's what I want to hear. Well, the direct answer to your question is yes, I think I am still in process and think I always will be. That there's this constant wrestle. And I think part of the beauty of our relationship with the Lord is relaxing into the wrestle. That He knows we're human. He knows that we're wrestling, that we're frail, that we're struggling, that we don't understand, that we take one step forward, two steps back sometimes. He knows that and His grace is sufficient for that. That He's not waiting for us to rise up to some elevated standard of holiness before His grace is sufficient. No is sufficient for the wrestle. So I love that. In fact, one of the most anchoring things that I've learned during this season is that He lets me ask my questions and I can do that without questioning His character. And yet He lets me come with all my questions and He receives all of them. And while I might not get the clarity of response on this side of eternity that I would prefer, He reminds me that He's with me. I got you. Nobody can tell me now that God is not real. I would like to think they couldn't have convinced me of that before, but now I know. Because the only way we can still function, have some sense of sanity, have some sense of ability to get dressed and serve other people and keep going the devastating realities that you mentioned about people losing babies and burying their sons or daughters that have been killed. And you can still function. You're right. That means He is able to sustain you. And that's a miracle as well. Not just Him healing, but also Him carrying you through what didn't work out the way you prefer. And you still are in your right mind? Yeah. That is a miracle. Yeah, right. That's a miracle. Some folks are hopeless to the point that they literally cannot get up and work, take care of their other children and function in any healthy way and their other dynamics. But those of us who have a relationship with God and recognize Him to be real, the proof is in the pudding, not just that He rescued us out of the situation, but that we're still alive to tell the story. You know, that is true. And I also think that we should have grace for those that have a relationship with God, but it's not showing up the way you wanted to show up at this time. Yeah. And you're angry. You know, my theology leaves room for therapy. Yeah. That's that right. Jesus and therapy. Jesus and therapy. And if you need therapy, and if you're going through grief and it's an inordinate amount of time, there's nothing wrong with getting somebody to talk to and airing out those problems and being real because after all, we're a spirit, soul and body. And that soul-ish, that mental, that psyche, that human part of us doesn't always heal as quickly as our spirit does. Your spirit can immediately receive the word and they were pricked in their hearts. It goes right into your heart. But that soul-ish part where we get psyche, where we get the word psychology, where we get mind, it can be getting signals from the flesh and from the spirit and from the situation and from the crazy world that we're living in. And you don't have to be ashamed to be hurting. You don't have to be ashamed to be hurting. As you were saying that, it's like it reminds me of being in college, in college algebra. You know, the math wires in my brain don't work very well. I remember being in college algebra and he's got the book, he's telling us what to do, but I needed tutoring. I need someone to help me outwork what he just taught me, but I need practical, I need some regiment to be put in place to help me to figure out why, how, what he taught me is supposed to work on paper. And in real life, this to me is what therapy, counseling, that depth of conversation is. It's like, okay, you have the book. You know God is real, you have the book, you have the outline for how to work the problem. But now you need someone to walk with you to show you how to apply this faith to the regular rhythms of your everyday living and you shouldn't be ashamed that you need a tutor. I think that sometimes it has a lot to do with generations, the way we're taught generationally, regionally, culture, plays a part into it where we're gender, plays a part into it where we're afraid to open up for help. I've seen couples where the wife would come but the man wouldn't come, you know, or they only come on the way to divorce court, you know. And giving yourself permission to not be okay, that it's okay to not be okay. Whether you're a person of deep faith or whether you're a person that's agnostic or we're not suggesting that accepting Christ means you don't hurt anymore or that you're not confused anymore or that the molestation and the after effects of it has gone away with baptism. We're suggesting that Christ gives you a leverage and a rock to stand on, but that does not mean that holding up the banner doesn't get heavy and that you don't need somebody to assist you because your arms are getting tired, you know. And I don't know about you, but there's been times in my life, I got tired. I was tired of being the strong guy, tired of being Superman, tired of fixing everybody else's problem as if I didn't have any of my own. Sometimes they call me to tell me what's wrong with them and I want to say, wait, could somebody please call me and ask me if I'm okay? Yeah, somebody check on me. And that doesn't happen easily. Chapter number three, Lessons from Mom. You know, you told a story. I think it was you or one of your siblings, but I think it was you. That when we were having prayer vigils for your mother in the final days of her life and everybody was praying and our church and all kinds of churches were praying, people were standing out in front of the house, praying like stalkers and you came in the room. And your mother was crying. Yes. And she was crying, she said, she was crying because if the Lord didn't heal her, maybe they would lose their faith in God. That's right. That was such an amazing story. She was thinking about other people. Yeah. How will their faith be affected if God doesn't answer the way they're praying? Yeah. And to crowd read and she died in a cancer and she's crying about us having faith. How much of her is in you? Oh man, the older and older I get, the more I realize a whole bunch. Yeah. Look just like your mother after all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But so much of the weight, her outlook on life, so much of the grace that she carried, that's what I hear from people. Just my stature is like hers, my composure is like hers. But I will tell you a lesson I learned from her that I'm intentionally incorporating during the last couple of months of her life. You know, of course she was saying very specific things to us. One of them was she would say, kids, you have to stop and smell the roses. She said, I wish I would have done that sooner. And what she meant was keep doing ministry, but along the way, enjoy your life. Don't be so purposeful and purpose driven that you miss out on the fun. And I heard her basically saying to us that sooner she would have recognized the importance of just enjoying all that God has given us opportunity to enjoy. So I've taken that to heart, that I wanna be busy and productive for the kingdom and what God has assigned for me to do, but also. Right, but. But also I wanna laugh. Yeah, yeah. And figure out what my passions are and my interests are and just do those for fun. Yes. Yeah. You know, it's funny you should say that because one of the most shocking things, I'm a grandfather now. You are. Several times over. I don't know how I got to be a grandfather. I cannot figure it out. I was doing used jubilee services and things like that. And the next thing I know, you know, I'm part of. I hear it sneaks up on you. Oh, it sneaks up on you like a ghost, Casper, the friendly ghost. And you look around and all of a sudden, my hair, it seemed like it didn't turn gray gradually. It's like I woke up one morning and I looked in the mirror and I thought, who are you? You know, because everything is so fast now. Everything's moving so fast. And AI has sped it up and technology has sped it up. And all of these wonderful conveniences that we now have, have made time put on its tennis shoes. Yeah. And it's rolling in such a way that a decade will pass by you and seem like a year, you know. And so what your mother is saying about really taking the time to really, really, really pull yourself together and say, I matter. I matter. It's such an important thing and we don't give ourselves enough permission, especially those of us who have a calling rather than a career. Yeah. We have a tendency not to take the time to do that. What do you do for fun? I love to read. Really? I love to watch movies. I love to walk. Walking is my love language, walking. I make up excuses to walk. I'll walk to the post office, walk to Target, find the nail shop that's four miles away so I can walk to it even if it's not my favorite one. Walking is my love. I love the sounds of nature. I love listening to worship music. I love praying and walking. I love the exercise for my body and what it does for my mental and emotional health as well. So solitude is the point I'm getting at. Walking in solitude, reading a book in quiet. I love solitude and enjoying those practices that allow me to just be with myself. It's rejuvenating for me. You know, she immediately had a recipe for what she does for fun and most people when I ask them what they do for fun, they stammer, they stutter. I want you to make it your business to sit down and write down at least five things you do for nobody but you and not feel guilty and not feel bad about it. And I feel like you're robbing the kids or robbing your spouse or robbing somebody. Just five things that you do and you don't have to do them all in repetition, maybe one a day that you do for you that keeps your head on straight. That causes you not to go postal. That causes you not to go into place and drive your car through a plate glass window. You've got to be intentional about your mental health as well as your spiritual health and your physical health and what she's talking about works on all three. Absolutely. And I should add, and I also eat Mexican food because that blesses my life. All right, all right, all right. That's a little comfort, put a little comfort in there. That's right, little queso. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm with you. I've got a brother and a sister and had a mom and a dad, it was five of us. When my mom died, all of us lost somebody different. Because even though it was the same person in the box, we did not all have the same relationship. We all were close and we all had a relationship but they were a unique relationship. What was your unique relationship like with your mother? That is a good question. I think my mother and I, our friendship was complicated because in some ways we were so similar that we bumped heads. And in some ways we were so opposite that we bumped heads. So our friendship was melding together more as I was getting older and I was learning acceptance. To me, one of the most important parts of any deep friendship and relationship, whether familial or just in a friendship relationship, is acceptance of the other person instead of trying to change them or mold them or listening in order to correct or just, so you can prepare your response. You actually are just absorbing who they are. That's what I was learning from my mom. Yes. That as she is is enough. And that what God gave her to give to me is enough. And it was and it is. And sometimes as a teenager, you don't realize it. You know what I mean? And then you grow up and you realize, oh, they're regular people, they're humans with deficiencies and weaknesses and a journey with God and things that the Lord entrusted to her just for me because he knew I was gonna be her girl. And so here I, you know, getting into my 40s when she was coming to the end of her life and it was just in that good part where you're seeing your parent as a human. Right, right. With feelings and emotions and again, their own story and journey with God. And appreciating that. Yeah, yeah. That she's a whole person outside of being my mama. Yes, yes. Because when you're a kid, it's like all about you. Yeah, what else you got to do but be my parents? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You didn't have a life before, you weren't ever a little girl, you weren't ever hurt, you weren't ever wounded. It's the selfishness of youth. Yes, yes. We think it's all about us. Oh, that's the book right there. Yeah. Chapter number four, don't crop the baton. When my mother got sick, my mother had Alzheimer's and when she got sick, she moved, I moved her into my house, she was into my house for the last two and a half years before she died. And it's the thing that I'm probably most proud of that I got to show her that if she was on the other foot, I would do for her what she did for me and that's everything. Eventually it got to where it was everything. But the thing that she did that was amazing is she narrated death to me. She talked to me about every stage of it. She told me one day, she said, you know, the only thing that got old on me was my body. She said, inside I'm the same little girl that was playing in the clay hills of Alaba. And she said, though people can't see it for the wrinkles on your skin or the needles in your body or the circumstances in your memory, she said, that little girl is still in there. And she says, in other words, thatward man is perishing. But the inward man is renewed from day to day. And I could still to this day feel her hand on my head where I was sitting on the floor and she was sitting in the chair and she was stroking my head, are you gonna be okay? She said, every story doesn't have a happy ending. And she just was talking me all the way to the grave, you know, what it was like. She said, I believe I'll be all right, but if I don't, I had a good time. Oh, that's special. Those kinds of things. Were there any things that your mother said as she was leaving that gave you perspective, that changed you, that gave you some insight? You know, a couple of things come to my mind. One is that her conversations about the Lord escalated as she got closer. Okay. I always feel like you really know what's in a person by what they're talking about at the most devastating times. I realized then that if her walk with the Lord wasn't for real, that's not what she would be talking about. She'd be terrified. There would be hopelessness, but she literally would just wake up and say the name Jesus, as if she had just seen him in a bit of a dream state maybe. And then she'd come back to alertness and just say his name. And it made me want that kind of friendship with him. That is substantial enough for that kind of organic connection when it's not easy to make it, but it's just in me. So I appreciated that. And then she said to us, don't drop the baton, which I know you have said, but the concept of legacy, that's what was on her mind. She wanted her children, her grandchildren, and her great-grandchildren around. I mean, bring that baby to me, with the baby right here. She was very intentional about physically touching her people. And I have on video, my son was so uncomfortable, he didn't even know what to do. You know, when you're 13, you're not sure what to do when your grandmother's laying in the bed talking to you, but I have her. We can barely even make out what she's saying, but you can see her talking to her grandson and saying, my life is for your life. Don't drop the baton. And I thought, what beauty and power in that, that you see that legacy is on her mind, that she knows it doesn't end here, that it's just the passing of a baton, and her charging all of us with, don't you dare drop this. I don't work too hard for y'all to mess around and drop this baton. But family traditions, legacy of faith as well, just on and on the things that she's sowed seed into, she's like a shawl's turn. Do well. When you had family dinners and things like that, did she do all the cooking or was it? She did do a lot of the cooking. We should have lightened that load earlier. We tried to, but you know, sometimes the mama, she says she wants the load lighter, but then now she wanna cook the whole thing. Put some more salt in that. That's right. You're not doing that right. You know, who carries on now that she's gone and holding the family together? You know, all four of us do in different ways. Me and Crystal, very much in those family tradition ways with Christmas and the cooking of certain dishes, mom was from Guyana, South America. So the Guineas dishes, my aunts, we're all sort of around trying to keep that part cultivated. And we counted as a privilege to be able to do that. Yeah. That's amazing. That's one way of keeping the legacy going. There are certain things that I cook that I will only show my kids how to cook them. You know, because they're family tradition. So you say you stingy with the recipe. You got to share it. Yeah, just the family. It's my grandmother taught my mother, my mother taught me. You know what I'm saying? That sort of thing. Well, we see your dishes on your Instagram page. You have us all salivating when you cook, Bishop. Let me tell you something funny about that. My mother taught me how to make banana pudding. And when she was sick, I made one and fixed it and brought it to her. I said, mama said, is it good as yours? She said. Almost. Almost. She weren't gonna give me enough credit. All the way to the grave. She was gonna be the king. What advice would you give to a child who is grieving right now at any age? Because you can be 50 and experience the death of your parent as an eight year old. You don't experience it from an objective place of being 50. You go back into your childhood and experience it that way. What advice would you give to a child? Whether they look like a child or not. Who's lost their mom? Relax into the way that grief is manifesting itself in your life. Relax into that. For me, yes, I've cried tears and that sort of thing. It has been emotional, but it's been less emotional and more of, it looks like a lack of motivation. It looks a little bit like lethargy. I've given myself through wise counsel permission, as they've helped me to see this is what grief looks like. You have permission not to be as productive and hustle oriented as you may have been prior. It's okay. That this season is an incubator for something coming in the next. If you rush this process and abort what grief is birthing in you, then you're going to cut short the next part. So relaxing and giving yourself grace, I think we give each other more grace. We give another person more grace than we give ourselves. Right, right. So whatever grief looks like for you, which again for me has looked like a little bit of a lack of motivation and get up and go that I'm used to it myself. And just accepting that and saying, Lord, let this season, I want to milk out of it, everything you've got for me in it. And until you release me, help me to trust you that this is not a waste, that you're doing good stuff here too. Chapter number five, lung surgery. You know, the interesting thing, we see you in front of all of these crowds and speaking to all these people or turn on the TV set or see you on Netflix or see you someplace like that. But in the words of Langston, the huge life for you has not been no crystal stairs. It's been hard and tough and challenging. You've had lung surgery. Yes, sir. You know, a sick person said to me, the disease is a betrayal of your own body. That's exactly what it feels like. Yeah. Yes. How did tell us about that time in your life and how you cope with it? Well, oddly enough, that happened at the same time my mother was passing. Jerry, my husband, his mother passed six months after my mom. She was in our house taking a nap and didn't get up. So we were experiencing all these griefs. And in the midst of that, I had a regular annual CAT scan done and they saw something in my lung that they could not determine what it was. I had all the PET scans and all the things. But they couldn't determine exactly what they was what it was. And, you know, once anything starts shifting or moving or growing, even minutely, they're like, we got to we got to take it out. It was in the middle of my lobe, so they couldn't cut it off the side. They had to take the whole lobe out. And I went in for that surgery. They took the whole left lobe of my lung out a week to the day of mom's funeral one week after I was in the hospital. Yes, sir. And then they did pathology on it and found out that it was a carc... an adenoid carcinoma, which is a very, very slow growing cancer. There's so many miracles in this because it's a slow growing cancer that you don't detect. The only way you know you have it is once you have symptoms. And if you have symptoms, it has already mushroomed outside of your lung and it's too late. So the fact that they that we even were able to determine it was there, I wasn't coughing. There was no ill effects on me at all. That would make me go to the doctor to say something's wrong. So the fact that I'm alive is a miracle. Wow. And so they took that out and I just had a long recovery from that. But another little miracle in that is they did pulmonary testing on me before the surgery. I remember that day blowing in all the tubes because they got to measure your lung function. And I remember the doctor coming in with his clipboard and his piece of paper and saying, is your height this and is your weight this? Is that right? And he said, well, if that's right, your pulmonary function is showing that you're at 115 percent capacity. He said, I don't know if you were born with extra lung capacity or if it's just what you've done in projecting for so many years that has increased it. But he said, the reality is when we take out the upper lobe of your left lung, most people will lose about 13 to 15 percent capacity. So when we take your lung out, you're going to be at 100 percent capacity. Wow. What a miracle. That's amazing. So every time I take a deep breath with every breath, I just say, thank you, God. Yeah. Yeah. That's so, that's so wonderful. It's funny you should bring up breathing because I've become much more intentional about deep breaths. Yes. And recognizing that everything for us started with a deep breath, you know, that you cannot say your way. That's right. Without breathing, inhaling, exhaling, and that the epitome of life itself is a breath. And when it goes, it goes with the breath. When it comes, it comes with the crying breath. That breath is everything and it causes oxygen to go through the body. It's just everything. And if you don't do anything, it's keep breathing. My father told me, you know, he'd had me carrying something up the stairs. I asked him little to carry, but he'd had me carrying it up the stairs. And in the strain of the weight I was carrying, I would stop breathing to bear the weight. And he would say to me, keep breathing. Keep breathing. And we want to say to you, no matter how heavy the weight is that you're carrying right now, no matter how difficult it is, no matter how stressed you are, keep breathing. Don't forget to breathe. She had a major attack. She kept breathing and look at her now. You're not just giving a testimony. Your very breath is a testimony. Amen. You got that right. Every breath is a testimony. Yeah, yeah. If you didn't say nothing else, but just get up in front of us and just breathe. I'm going to breathe for 45 minutes. You know, somebody would probably get healed off of that breath. People think that sometimes witnessing is a hard thing to do, but sometimes survival is a witness. It is an absolute. You're just getting up the next day, getting up the next day, putting one foot in front of the other helps you to keep breathing. Tell me about the recovery period and what was that like? I remember about four weeks after the surgery, getting on our treadmill, because, you know, they want you to walk immediately after surgery, but that's in the most, you know, you're just on a walker, just doing the best you can, getting from the kitchen to the bathroom. Then four weeks after, I remember getting on the treadmill and I told you walking is my love language. I love walking miles. It's just a joy for me. And I walked at a 2.0 for seven minutes and I could barely make it. And I just wept. I remember Jerry coming in here and me crying. I'm crawling. I'm barely moving and I can't breathe. And I and I thought in that moment, is this my life? Am I now not going to be able to enjoy one of the simple fundamental pleasures in life, just being able to walk and catch my breath? And Jerry said to me, basically what you just described, he said, if you'll keep doing it, even at a 2.0 tomorrow, it'll be a 2.1. You'll go another minute, but you have to be willing to persevere through what seems like exhaustion and an inability to do anything significant. It seems so small. But if you'll keep doing it and oh, he was right, every day, he just encouraged me one more minute, go up one point, go up one point. And before I knew it over the course of six months, I was back to myself walking and breathing. Chapter number six, marriage. You know, it's funny, I was in there changing clothes, getting ready for this podcast. And I thought I have seldom, if ever, seen Priscilla without Jerry. Yeah, we're always together. Always together. Tell me about Jerry and what Jerry is her husband. Yes. What does he mean to you? And is it enriched by having walked you through that process? Oh, man, I don't know how hardship doesn't enrich any relationship. We're two or so closely wound together as in marriage. We've been married 26 years and 24 of those we really been in this ministry together. And he's sort of, he's the businessman of the bunch of the two of us. He's just the businessman with the business mind. And so the Lord has fitted us together, kind of like puzzle pieces where his strengths take up where my weaknesses are and vice versa. He doesn't want to do what I want. What I do, he's not interested in that. He's not trying to be upfront. There's no competition. He doesn't seem like that at all. No, he supports and encourages what it is that God has given me to do and wants me to cultivate that. I'm so grateful because I know that's not every wife's story. Exactly. So I know that the Lord, you know, when we got married, I did not know I'd be in ministry. I had no aspirations, ministry, certainly not film or anything like that. I had no knowledge that that would be a part of the story. So the Lord knew in advance with who he was matching me up with, that 10, 15, 20 years down the road, that this guy would be able to handle the story that the Lord was riding with my life and vice versa. So it hasn't been easy because working together and being married is always has its challenges and struggles in there. But through with wise mentors, the Jenkins, John and Trina Jenkins, they've kept us married. Yes, yes. Talking with them through the struggles of trying to collaborate and make sure our lives are complementing one another. We've just had a close bond together and done most of what we've done together, including raising our sons. They've my boys do not know what it is for a dad to not be present. They think it's normal. Right. For dad to be a part of the regular rhythms of everyday life because we were both working together from home, from our office, which was at home throughout their whole upbringing. And I've said to my husband so many times, what a gift for our little black boys to have seen their black father. Right. So present in the home. I'm hoping they will replicate that when they have their own families. They just think is what dad's supposed to do. Right. Be present with their children. They've seen that with you. Shout out to John and Trina. They're amazing. They're amazing. Yeah, yeah. I love them very, very much. Your boys have the benefit of seeing your husband and seeing what he has been able to do in your life and what you all have been able to do together. And to see you go through struggles and survive them disagreements and survive them. I think that's part of the education that is it's not like we're all running around on halos, eating ice cream. There are moments that we have conflict, but to resolve those conflicts without choking each other to death. In the bathtub. That's the wind. That's the wind. And if we if we would become better, part of our training for people coming out of prison through our Tory program is conflict resolution. Because right now the way they resolve everything is with a gun. Yes. You know, and there's got to be a way where we can resolve things with our killing each other and destroying each other's rights and dignity and that sort of thing. So I think it's good for them to see a realistic love and a realistic relationship and see that it's it's natural, but it's not easy. That's right. It's not easy. And to see us apologize. Right. Right. See us admit when actually we got that I got that wrong. I should have done that differently. Right. I did learn that from mom and dad. I was grateful to see their humaneness in that way. And I'm hoping my boys will see that in us. Dad and I are we out here just in these streets doing our best. Yeah. You know, this is the first time your kids is the first time we're parents. Right. Right. Right. We're just doing our best. Right. Right. You don't get to practice. You don't get a trial run. You know, you just have to do the best you can. Yeah. That's why you better be in a grandparent because by then you have the experience. That's what I heard. I heard the grandparents would make the best parents because by then you're patient. Yeah. You're more relaxed. Yes. You're more easy going about the whole thing. Yes. And you you're through building. So you're settled. You're settled. The problem with raising children is you're raising them while you're building and you can't stop either one. Mm hmm. You can't stop raising them and you can't stop building because if you stop building they won't have anything to be raised in. So you can't just give yourself totally over to them at the sake of them being homeless. And on the other hand, you'll be a great parent, but you're homeless. Or you'll be in a situation where you you've built a great house and lost the child. Built a great child, lost the house. You know, how do you how do you balance those two things? What what would you go back and do differently? Oh my God. How much time you got? But I mean, if you say one thing that if you could go back and you would rebalance that or renegotiate that or reprioritize that, what would it be? I think I would have spent more time with my kids. And I spent a lot of time with my kids. I wasn't missing when they did their recitals and their concerts and their distance and that and other. My kids don't have that testimony. I was not abusive or anything like that. But I think sometimes I would have either taken them with me more or also gone into their world more. I think one of the mistakes that I made is it was always about coming into my world. Not enough about coming into theirs and getting down and meeting them where they were and going into their room rather than them coming into ours to so that they can self identify as being significant, especially as a father, because for daddy to be there makes it important. You know, daddy came. They tell you that daddy came. That means it's important. I didn't realize the important role that I played beyond being protective and being provisionary in the life that my presence was a gift. And I think that sometimes it's hard for a man or maybe a woman to recognize that your presence is more important than your presence that you give them. And it comes from a place of unconscious, low self-esteem, where you, you don't know what they get out of you. Just being in the house or being in the room or sitting at the table or drawing with them or coloring with them. You know, I can't remember coloring with them much doing things like that. Those little things like that. I wish I'd have done more things like that with them. I wish I would have made them work harder. Summer jobs, greasy, dirty, washing cars, taking out the trash jobs where everything wasn't so easy and so simple. Because when they got adults and I threw them out there into the real world, they were shocked at some of what it costs to be me. The price I paid and hid from them as a favor became a liability because they were shocked at how hard it is to pay rent and insurance and pay taxes at the end of the year. That while they were having Christmas, I was getting Christmas presents and paying property taxes and paying employment taxes and doing business at the same time. They had no idea. The Christmas wasn't the great joy for me that it was for them. Because I was trying to make sure I had enough money to make all those ends of me and then come in and talk about ho ho ho. But my ho ho ho wasn't really ho ho ho. It was boo humbug, you know, that class of reality, yeah, I think would have been important for them to learn. Chapter number seven, favorite actors. Let's talk a little bit about you, the movie star. The woman who came out of nowhere, I don't think you had any movie formal training. No, sir. But you act like you do. I'm so glad to hear that because I don't want to mess it up. No, you act like you do. And you start, you got on there and they said, Priscilla Sharers making movies. And I was expecting you to get up there and be the person I see preaching. But you fell right in the character and played the role. Did you enjoy it? So much. I think because of the creative outlet of it. I think because it's outside of my regular world. I'm not in Hollywood. I'm not in the industry. So I'm not on sets all the time. It felt like being a schoolgirl. Yeah. Looking around to forget the people in front of the camera, all the people behind the camera. I was intrigued by the lights and the person that's intrigued. I was intrigued by the lights and the person that's interested in continuity and the, you know, the grip. And I mean, I was so drawn in to what everybody was doing and learning so much. Yes. And it gave me an appreciation for people in the industry. Oh my God. I was like, it's a miracle. One scene gets filmed. One scene takes forever. Yes. I was doing a movie with Kimberly Elise and I didn't know that they were going to have to shoot it four times. So I spent all my energy on the first time giving all this expression, only to find out that they were moving the camera, setting up to shoot it again. And then I had to bring it on and Kimberly Elise looked at me and she said, she said something that I will never forget. It sounds real simple. She said, save it till the lights on you. Save it for the close up. Yeah. Yeah. And I found out sometimes we have energy, but we spend it at the wrong time. That's. Saving it for when the lights on you. You've done several movies. Can you name them for me? Which one was your favorite? Well, I think War Room because it was the first. Okay. And it just, I just enjoyed every moment of that process. And I thought that would be it. I thought this was a once in a lifetime random thing that had happened. And then I got a chance to, a little role in a movie called I Can Only Imagine. And then, oh my goodness, what was that? Overcomer. Yes. And then this last one was called The Forge. The Forge, that's all that. Yes. So I'm surprised and shocked that four times I've gotten to be a part of a film project. So if you had a chance to play beside Denzel, would you do it? It depends. If I had to be married to him, my husband might be like, yeah, no. If we were co-workers, I could probably pull it off. Okay, let's pick her girl, Angela Bassett. Oh, I would give my left arm just to be in her presence and be in the orbit of, just to watch her do what she does. She's amazing. That's what I've heard. She's amazing. A couple of the, the, the camera men and the crew that were on the last film I was on, they had just come off of shooting with Angela Bassett somewhere. And one of them gave me the best compliment ever. In between shots, he came over to me and just said, you remind me of Angela Bassett. Wow. And I said, what? I'll take it. I'll take it. Angela Bassett is such a pro. Oh. She was doing a scene in a movie that, that we were doing. And, and the stem of the glass broken, it wasn't supposed to break, it broke by accident. She worked it right into the moment. Of course she did. She left it right in the film. She was just, just amazing at her ability to adapt to any situation. Oh. And all these new people that are coming, and Paula Patton and all of these people that are coming on the scene and doing so much. Would, would you, would you take a role with one of them? It always just depends on the film and the role. You know, what it is. I do because, probably because of the success of War Room, I did get a lot of scripts that started coming. And I didn't do most of them because I have an appreciation for actors. I know that they didn't just stumble into that if they're good at it. They have trained for this. There's a, there's a technicality behind it that I didn't realize and that people don't realize when you're watching a movie and it's good. That's because this actor is thinking about blocking. They're thinking about, it's not just saying some words. Right. So I appreciate that. And I know that there are people better equipped to do those roles. For me, the reason why up till now that I've done the four I have is because they really are a ministry. They're, they're, they're focused. They're, it's a message that I would preach or teach or write is just on them. Exactly. It's another way. So here's the question. Okay. If, if they weren't overtly Christian and it was just a life story or a love story or a challenge of somebody stuck in the Alps on a mountain cliff, would you do it? Possibly. Possibly. My children have been at the stage where I wouldn't have done it at this stage in their life. It takes too much time and energy away from them to do it. And I wanted to be real intentional with when I choose to be away from my kids or do something that is going to take my full investment. I've just wanted to be focused on what I know is the main thing the Lord has called me to do for now in another season of life, which they're getting there now where they're older. I have more freedom, more free time. I might do something like that just for creative fun. Right. What are the boundaries you set for yourself? When I look at a script, I'll go so far. I'm a little edgy, but I won't go too far. You're edgy, but you're... Yeah, I'm a little... I thought Woman Are Loose was edgy. Yes. I mean, it was about a girl being molested when she was little, but it was true. And it was true to life. And sometimes I think in the effort to be Christian, we compromise truth. Yes. And Christianity is supposed to be built on truth. If you got molested, we can't make that look pretty. Because it's not pretty. That is what it is. It is not pretty. And so I was okay with that. But just gratuitous sex for the fun of them. Yeah. I'm not okay. So have you thought about any boundaries of what you would and would not participate in? Well, I know that part of those cues come from my husband. I feel very passionate about the fact that I should be respectful of him and his comfort, and he should be respectful of me and my comfort in a marital relationship. So I know because, again, I wasn't an actor when we got married. This was not part of his plan of what his wife was going to be doing. So I know that his comfort, he would have a hard time with me being any sort of physical relationship with a man on screen. Gratefully, I've worked with directors that have cared so much about the health and well-being of the marriages of their actors that, for example, in war room, any scene where the husband and wife are touching, that is that man's wife. We would film the wide shot, washing feet and all that. We'd film the wide shot. Then his wife, the actor's actual wife would put my clothes on, and they would do the close-up of him washing her feet and holding her hands and kissing her because they cared so much about steering clear of the danger of that kind of connection. 12, 13 hours a day up in somebody's face doing all that stuff. It would be hard to draw a line in the sand. It creates bonds or it creates chaos. Absolutely. Some people you love, some people you want to choke. Absolutely. And Jerry Shire ain't about that line. Yeah, he's going for it. Jerry's not having it. No. I can stand it for me, but I can stand it for Serena. Don't do that. Praise God, don't do that. Were you on the red carpet and how did you like that experience? I enjoyed it because, well, two reasons. Number one, I got to watch my mama enjoy it. Taking her with me and us walking together, seeing her face light up, the smile, the, for both of us, just the intrigue of being in a setting that's not our normal life. Right. Just the fun of doing something different. Yes. Chet and the Bray, balance. You're quite a polymath from the standpoint. You're an author, you're a speaker, you're a motivational speaker, you're a preacher, whether they want to call that or not. You're an actress, you've done so many different things. Your wife, your daughter, you're all of those things that I named it first. How do you balance all of that? I say no a lot. Okay. I say no a lot. I cannot do everything and have time and energy for the best things. So, I'm literally weighing all the invitations, all the opportunities, which they're all good. There's nothing that's a bad thing or that would be negative necessarily, but we have these filters, our children's schedules, our priorities that year, you know, and we're weighing them through that. And then once they get through that filter, I want to make sure I have what my mom encouraged me to have, time to stop and smell the roses. What will allow me to still have margin, be able to have fun, enjoy my relationship with my kids, be it they basketball games, me and Jerry have time for a vacation. And then I dot the yeses into that, which means 90% of the opportunities I'm having to say no to, so that I can really enjoy the 10% that we're saying yes to. It's less hard as I get older. The guilt of it sort of fades. The fear of lost opportunity, you realize those opportunities are coming back around again. It's okay. So the older I get, the more to me the luxury in life is margin, time, freedom to choose. You are married to Jerry and you also are in business with Jerry. So you have to really like him a lot. Depends on the day. Depends on what day it is. If he was sitting here, he'd say the same thing. What do you think that you bring to the table that's unique that he doesn't? And what does he bring to the table that you don't? He is a shrewd businessman. I am not as astute and shrewd as he is by far. So there is a tension to detail with the realities of business and contracts and nuance that I might not see. I might not have clarity on. He will. He's going to sit at the table with the powers that be with whatever company or publishing or whatever. Those things have to be discussed. And he's going to say to them, this is a pie and you're going to get sick off all this pie. Make sure that the portion is a win-win on both sides. And because he loves the Lord, yes, but as a shrewd businessman, he's going to say what needs to be said to make sure that his wife and his children and his grandchildren are set up to win. I ask you that because I think it's really, really important. In the last few months, over 300,000 African American women have left the workforce, mostly involuntarily laid off, plants shut down, AI replaced. For whatever reason, it has hit our community real hard. People are having to rethink the future in terms of entrepreneurship and opportunities. And in the process of rethinking that, turning to your family for support and getting the business off the ground is important. What would you say is the key for women or men going into business with their spouse? Is it the clear delineation of you do this and I do that and we stay out of each other's way? What's the key? I don't know that there is a key because I feel like it would depend, wouldn't it, on what the strengths and the weaknesses are because maybe they do overlap. In our case, they've been clear, but I think in some people's cases, I've watched it where there's a little bit of both and they are able to kind of share the table on both sides or in different streams of their business and the way they have it set up. So I don't know that there is a key. Do you have an answer for that? What do you think? That's a good question. My wife and I are very different. She see we can go to a dinner party, for example, same party, same dinner, same host, get in the car and come home. And we had two completely different experiences. She said, did you see the lady with red shoes on? I don't know who had on red shoes. I didn't look at the red shoes. I see what kind of person you are quicker than I see what you've got on. So I don't look at the outside of you as much as I do the inside of you. And I'm very discerning about what kind of person you are as a rule. But my wife has an intuition and an instinct that is completely different from my own. And I think that's the sharpest difference and distinction between the two. I spend more than she does. She's frugal. She's okay. She's very frugal. I'm a little bit more lavish. I'll take a bigger chance than she will. That's me. I'll take the risk. I'll take the risk. I'll invest capital. I'll invest into a company. I'll take a chance on a piece of property. My wife is going to stay pretty close around Costco's. Yeah. It's going to be Costco's or Kmart or Walmart or something like that. I mean, she's not going to go way out there unless she has two rooms to go. She's not going to go out there where I would go and have some designer custom made. But the fact that she is so frugal makes me free to invest more into her, the less she asks for, the more I want to give her. That's right. Okay. So she might be working in psychology on me now that I think about it. She's been playing that for a while. For a while and I didn't even know it. I think that I'm more outgoing and gregarious with people. She's more of an introvert than I am, but an introvert doesn't mean that she doesn't like people. It's just that being around people in large quantities drains her. That doesn't drain me. It invigorates me. And we have spent hours trying to understand each other and articulate and get the language to explain what we are feeling. And I think after 43 years of being married, understand each other pretty good. So I would say understanding is the glue that holds the union together. That understanding each other and making allowances for each other. I know when the holidays come, I'm going to lose her. She's gone. Listen, listen, everything in my house is going to be blinking. Correct. I already know that. Rather than being irritated by it, I just relax and enjoy her smiling and playing Christmas carols and the smell of food in the air. And I'm generally the one cooking the food. And we've found our spot. And I think it's a wall since a dance. And you have to find your spot and your rhythm. Your rhythm, your rhythm, your rhythm. I get up earlier than she does. Your rhythm, understanding your rhythm and not wanting her to get up when I get up. Which used to irritate the ever living daylights out of me. Yeah. Wanting the other person to be like us. Wanting them to be like us. And so working together puts us in a situation where she'll come over and support me. And I had to learn that she's not trying to take over. She's trying to support me. Even in doing what we're doing today, she's been over here in the middle of it. She's trying to support what I'm trying to do. And I had to learn how to read her love language. And I'll say this for the people that are watching, that are listening to this podcast. If you don't learn to read each other's love language, the person you marry could be giving you the love that you need and you can't interpret it. The ability to understand that her love language is acts of service. So that's why she brought the dinner to the table or to the bedroom or wherever I was. And my love language may be touch. And we may be missing each other because you're speaking French and I'm speaking German. And you have to learn how to receive it the way they're comfortable in giving it. And they have to learn how to learn how to give it in ways that are easier for you to receive. Which takes a lot of work. Yes, it's worth. To speak the other language. It's not natural to you. That's right. It's like learning a foreign language. Yeah. It's not natural to you. You know, and that has helped us an awful, awful lot. Chapter number nine, the future. Let me ask you this. When you look in your crystal ball or you get on your knees and pray and you look toward the future and that you might have the expected end. What do you see for you in the future? I want to be in the position you are where I've got grandbabies sitting on my lap and I have the health to enjoy them. Yeah. And I get to see my sons, my three boys come into manhood and feel purposeful and intentional. And like their God's favors on them in their marriage and with their families. I want to see that. To me, that's a win right there. I want to be productive for the kingdom, but not in just a hurried, frazzled success, striving. No. What do you want me to do, Lord? I want to do those things. I want to see my family well. And then, you know, I hope when I see him, he says, you did okay. Is that in part the privilege of being a married woman? That you don't have to scuffle with the fact of retirement and being taken care of that there's another partner that gives you the privilege and the luxury to say no and be that selective. I mean, they ask you to place incentives and, you know, you have to do it because it's $1.5 million. Is that discretion a part of your, the fact that you're a married woman? I will say for me because I know some married women who still don't have that security. Right, right. It depends on the husband. Right. But I will say that I just said to Jerry even a couple of days ago, the sexiest thing that man ever says to me is, I got it. It don't matter what we're talking about. We can be talking about the dinner plans. We could be talking about the finances for the future. Yeah. But when my husband says to me, I got it. There is a sense of restfulness. Yes. And you rest, you rest in it. Oh yeah. I rest in it. Final question. When you walk off the stage, whatever stage you're on, and I've seen you walk off the stage many times, alterful people crying, people weeping. What is your thought sitting beside your husband with your head bowed? I often wonder what, what are you praying? Are you thanking God? Are you asking him to, is there ever a moment where you wonder, did I, did I get it across? You know, I have those moments. Do you? Oh yes. Oh yes. I have those moments where I get in the car and just think, oh, you flubbed today. You know, what are your thoughts when you walk off? Partly what you just described. Because I always feel like there are three messages. There's the one I intended to preach. There's the one I did. And then there's the one on the way home with all the stuff I didn't say that I would have said. I'm going to remember that. Yes. You're going through that and releasing it, letting it go. Look more, take what is and use it in the hearts of people. So that releasing of it and then also just gratitude. Fantastic. Because sometimes you start and you don't know how it's going to go. You don't know people are going to be impacted. You're not as congruent or clear in your thoughts as you would have wanted to be. And then somehow you get to the end and you maybe see a tear in someone's eye or someone raised their hand for salvation or come. Forward and just gratitude. Lord, thank you that you took my little bit and did something with it. You come across pretty clear to me. Ladies and gentlemen, you've been listening to Priscilla Shire and we have had a great time having a wonderful conversation. I hope you have enjoyed sharing it with us as we discover our next chapter. I challenge you to consider yours and understand that the pen may be in your hand. Though the income from God that determines how your next chapter ends. Thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. Thank you. That was perfect. Hey everybody, I want to take this time to thank you for watching the next chapter podcast. If this conversation inspired you, helped you reflect on an idea or spark something new inside of you. Make sure to like, comment and subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. Remember, life isn't about how you begin. It's about how you finish strong. So start your next chapter with us right here every week.