Traitors US S4 Ep 8 Recap

hey everybody what's going on rob sister you know back with you after what a night on the traders and so much to recap here with the duke of deception here he is it's puya zanvikili puya How are you, Rob? I am good. I am buzzing. This was a very fun episode. Dare I say my favorite episode of the season. And there's a lot to break down, Rob. A lot to talk about. A lot to break down. A lot happened. Colton was murdered, but pour one out for one of the traitors tonight. It was a triangle. We're all get out our cry angles because Candice has been banished from the castle and Rob is in good shape after all this. He's looking very, very, very good. I think we're not here to just drool over. We're talking about his game. OK. yeah you you think i'm i'm i'm looking at looks only rob is that is that what i do i give that energy off no no you might be one of the few but yeah this was a a big night on the traders and a night that uh we might look back and say like okay well this was this changed everything yeah i think that you know coming out of last week it really felt like the civil war is coming who is going to win. You and I spent a whole week talking about the different numbers and everything. I think what we left behind in our discussion ended up being, well, how quickly is this going to boil over? Because really, we blinked and it was done. And it all has to do with who they murdered, Rob. It was a masterful murder. And I can't wait to dip into it with you. Okay. Well, we will get into it all here tonight. We will keep you posted on any exit press that we may get the chance to do this week. We did speak with Lisa Rinna the other day, had a great chat with Lisa. Of course, you can catch that in the podcast and on our YouTube channel. That is up as well. And if any other exit interviews come our way, we will be sure to get them on the podcast. So I guess where do we start? I guess Candice versus Rob. This was the heavyweight fight that we were promised this week. And I do feel like that it peaked not in the roundtable. It got started in the turret. But that conversation in the library when Candice was talking to Stephen and then Rob came in and they asked Stephen to leave. And then Rob sat down. And it's so rare that you get that type of interaction between two traders, not at the round table, not in the turret, in plain sight. And that is as good as the traders gets. That's exactly what you want. Just a very tense conversation being had. And like people are walking by like, oh, they're having lunch, whatever. No, this is the conversation of the season, practically, where they're throwing jabs. This is in the conversation. This is where Candice realizes what Rob did, the trap Rob set for her that she fell into. And she's like, just so you know, you're not getting away with this God free. Not if I have something to say about it. And it's fun. Like, this is what I want in the traders. I know that we celebrate good gameplay on this show, but we also celebrate chaos. We also celebrate popcorn. This was popcorn. This was chaos. And this was strategy. And it was very fun. It was all of it. Everything you could ask for. It was the culmination of what's been building over these last couple of weeks. And then at the roundtable, it didn't quite deliver. It just did not seem like that Candace had the support at the roundtable. I don't think that she had even realized at that point just how bad things had gotten for her, where there were a lot of things that Rob, you know, did particularly well, and we can go through all of them, but she had lost the support of some of her key constituents in Tara, in Johnny, in Kristen. Like when we went through the list last week of like, okay, who are the Candace people? Who are the Rob people? And honestly, what Rob did with sacrificing Colton in the way that we've seen Rob Roush play chess like he basically okay let her take his bishop but it was a trap and then Candace just ended up getting stuck in this trap and didn't realize until it was too late but I wonder could Candace have righted the ship could she have pulled the nose up at that point and not gone for Rob at the round table was going for Rob at the round table it was she already toast like uh we heard alan say about jam jam last week or did going after rob at the round table seal her fate the alternative name would have been steven colletti and i think that maybe that would have worked we saw people talking about it certainly but i just think that the ship had set sail it was gonna be candace i think that for her she really wanted to make sure that she gives her peace of mind to Rob there and kind of put his name out there a little bit because I think the alternative is you go all in on Steven, which I don't think is impossible to pull off, but I think that it was just a lot more mounting against her than she could have ever anticipated. And I think that truly, if she wanted to, you know, write it with Rob and move forward, she should not have put his name down last round. I think that just killed any hope that they had to work together. Yeah. Getting to know Candace a little bit. And again, I really admired Candace in the castle. I think that she was a great trader. She's everything that you want in a trader in terms of a character that's going to come in and do the most. I thought she had a great social game. She really played the game particularly well, I think, up until that point. But I think that she her mindset is you're not going to get away with this. And when she felt like that Rob was getting away with it on voting for Lisa, I think she felt like that she needed to step in and really shine a light on him. Yeah, I think that the again, the shining the light there is one thing. I think the biggest problem with that, Rob, is that she called it a throwaway vote. I think that word was something she couldn't escape because calling it a throwaway vote and then going after that person. While to me is obvious, and we'll talk about that a little bit deeper, I think it's just such a hard sell the next day to convince people to vote with you when the day before you're like, I don't even think it's this person. I just voted them because no one else was going to vote them. And I felt like I could throw it away like that. it's such a hard thing to then convince people to go for that person and look at that person especially then you kill his closest ally um yes he would never do that why would he do that he wouldn't do that i do think that there was a case like i don't think that necessarily that like the i think the throwaway vote was bad especially to call it the throwaway vote but i think there was a way to salvage it after the round table if she came out and was really trying to say I think that was traitor on traitor but instead I think it was a little bit more of like okay what like if and Colton needed to still be there also where I think that there we saw her talking to Johnny last week where she was saying I think the traitors are Rob and Colton they're working together but then by killing Colton it really I think took a lot of the wind out of her sales of not just that colton allegedly had said her name which i was that in the episode that was like tail end of the episode after he i thought he was how many names was he saying after the round table i think he was saying steven colletti yeah and candace but like the candace one was like we saw a segment of him bring up steven then we saw a segment of candace bringing up uh you know uh rob and then we went back to colton bringing up candace yeah so she's trying to then say, I think it's Rob and Colton. And I think that Rob is feeding Colton all of this information, but then to kill Colton, it's very hard then to make that case of, you know, who was feeding Colton all this information, Rob. And then, you know, who also must've killed Colton also Rob. Yeah. Meanwhile, Rob is the, the demeanor he's giving in the castle is not someone who is strategic. You know, you've talked about your three roles a trader can be, and I think it was very clear that they had decided, we're looking for the strategic one, and that's Candice. Yes. They're not, Rob doesn't fit that profile for them really. Once the season's over and they see who it was, he might fit that like a glove. But I do think that it's a very hard ask to tell everyone to submerge all expectations you had. I know it was a throwaway here, but actually I think all these things linked to him it sounds to them they're like she's played so well this makes no sense um and i think that is a red flag on top of obviously not voting the traitor or natalie and just voting somebody else altogether um so it's just it's a tough spot to be in i think what yeah yeah it was just too hard to sell that rob killed colton i i think that let's go back to the decision in the turret. And so they're deciding what to do. Rob says, hey, let's recruit a trader. Candice said, no, I don't want to do that. I don't want to give him ammo to be able to bring somebody else in to help get rid of me. I feel like they should have explored that more. They didn't even, based off of what we saw, they did not even talk through, maybe there could have been a match where maybe, maybe Rob would have been open to, you know what, Tara Lipinski. Yes, I'm open to that. Or Johnny Weir. I'm open to that. I think that if, if, what's his name? If Rob was so okay with Colton leaving, maybe just be like, let's just bring Colton in. And then he's probably gonna get votes. We can push him out. We can patch things up. Really use that to his benefit. And you know, Colton was going to push, had already pushed Candace's name. So maybe then capitalize on that as well. I just think for both of them, it was the same thing where they were like, I don't want to get ganged up on in this turret, so I'm not going to risk it. Let's just go murder. Well, I don't know if that's what Rob was thinking. I don't want to get ganged up in the turret. Rob said, I want to recruit another traitor. And Candace was worried about getting ganged up on in the turret. But they didn't really talk through whether there was a person that they could have potentially agreed on, somebody that could have come in and been a bit more of a peacemaker. Now, Rob is sitting on this information that Colton had said Candace's name. Do you do you think Rob wanted her to kill Colton? Was this just like a convenient or do you feel like Rob when he says, no, no, no, don't kill Colton? Did he know what he was doing where he knows if he tells Candace, hey, I don't want you to do this. Does he know that she will want it more? I think he was consistent in saying he's my best friend here. I don't want him to go. Uh, but I do think, I don't think necessarily in the moment he was like, oh, this is perfect. Kill Colton and I'll frame you for it. I think for him, he's giving her what she wants. Whoever you want to kill, kill. I think Colton, as you know, she's saying the options probably sticks out as well, if Colton leaves, I hate it for me. But who's ever going to think I murdered him at this point in the game? No one. And I think he's got to know Colton's name is consistently being brought up as a vote here at the round table. Like, I think maybe it's one of those things where it's like, oh, the more I thought about it, the more I am OK with this. Yeah, go for it, actually. Whatever. Do it. In the moment, to me, the reaction was very raw of like, I don't want to get rid of Colton. But then it's like, OK, but whoever you want is cool. Like, actually, whoever you want is cool. How surprised were you that Colton was the person murdered? Floored. I genuinely thought of the names we had left. I was like, they're going to go Stephen Coletti. And like, they just were throwing his name out there as a suspect. It's going to put them in a tailspin a little bit. What I didn't expect for it to be was Colton. I felt like this was a not great choice for them, especially because he was someone who was always going to end up being round tabled out to me. Yeah, it is a weird choice for a murder, especially considering. And Candace did not even know that he was suspecting her. So it's really seemed like more of just a punitive move of like he's working too close with Rob. I need to break up his number one ally. yeah and i would always feel very suspect of a player who says you can take my closest ally that's fine why that's very weird of you to say what do you have planned on the other side because i think we both understand hey we have people we want in this game who are your people who are my people if you're like i have nobody they're expendable that's suspect and i think again this is what but i do love the moment that we get out of this i do love that library moment So it was all well worth it. But inadvertently, little does she know, putting his best friend to bed was her own undoing in that moment. Yeah, that's a really good point about that. The fact that he was open to this should have been a red flag. Yeah, because I feel like, you know, we all say, yeah, whatever you want is fine, except for this thing that I really don't want. and that should be enough. But once you're like, you know what? You can vote her. If I ever tell you you can vote Liana out, I am lying to you. I am lying to you. I'm not okay with that. Don't you dare. Well, last season we saw where Danielle and Carolyn were in some similar standoffs where that they both had their people that they wanted to recruit and then they couldn't agree on and they had to come up with a murder. And then it's like, okay, well, who's an agreeable person that we can murder on? But neither of them was going to give up one of their pieces where it did. And we've seen Rob play so much chess this season that he was very open to losing one of his closest friends in the castle, which also I think even though that this was kind of what people were looking at Tiffany when Colton was coming for her, like, oh, it was the perfect crime. Of course, she took out Rob and Ian. She was close to them. That's why she would do it. It really does help clear Rob where that he wouldn't have taken out Colton. He's look how sad he is. And we've already run that theory incorrectly. I think that helps once once you push a theory like that and it doesn't work. The odds of you being like, but maybe this time that exact same thing we thought about with Tiffany, it rings true for this guy. That's going to be a harder sell. and i also just think that and maybe this is where it truly helps the fact that um rob doesn't vote ron funches despite ron basically being a mercy kill um it shows that he would never go against the people he's good with in similarity to how the housewives don't vote for each other i think rob is just coming off like a good boy like a he's good with everybody he would never do this the sweet boy he would never he can paint yeah he has honor he would never murder his friend in the game that's not gonna happen yes yeah so if colton stayed he shows up to breakfast do you think that it is colton who gets banished at the end of this episode i do think so it sounded like johnny was looking that way kristen's looking that way if kristen's looking that way i think eric is gonna look that way i think mark potentially looks that way tara's gonna look that way candace is gonna jump on that also that's the numbers that's right there like it's all available for them to look at him. I think it would have been very... What was he going to do? Push Candace's name out the rest of the day? Okay. That's certainly possible. It seemed to me at the end of the episode he was more looking at Stephen Coletti than he was looking at Candace. Yes. I thought that too. And let it be known Colton was most effective as a faithful when he got murdered because his death is really what He had more to do through death than he did through being alive as an effective faithful His death wasn in vain They they avenged it correctly Yeah So that I think the throwaway vote at Rob, then murdering Colton. Those were, you know, two big strikes. And then I think then the third strike for Candace ultimately comes that she just did not have the support to be able to take out Rob. People don't want to hear anything bad about him at this castle, especially Mora. Yeah, I think he's done a great job of marinating Mora here. Mora basically more offended that he was the throwaway of what was the recipient that Rob was. Yeah, more offended. She did not like that you threw away his name. That was not nice. It was not a nice thing to do. Yeah. I mean, listen, this is more of a testament to the kid's social game like he clearly knows what he's doing um he's done a very good job of culminating these relationships he's done a good job of coming off inoffensive affable to people why would he ever be bad and if he was in the event he was bad he was be he's going to be a more of a follower type and not the leader type not a thinking type that's again this is them typecasting and probably similar to how many people who are like he's from the island he's probably not going to be worth anything this season and then look at him now i think that that carries a lot of weight the show you come from low-key can help you quite a bit in i mean that's danielle reyes told us that way back when the people from the love shows they're playing the game on easy mode it's because they get discounted but danielle has said but they're playing a game don't be fooled by that yeah so yeah all right skipping ahead to the round table candace makes the case against rob she votes for rob again she's a traitor historically players look at who does a traitor vote for and especially when they really are adamant hey look at this person no one seems to feel like hey maybe was Candice trying to give us a clue? Not yet, at least. Maybe it's just too raw right now, but it did feel like you're playing a game of incoherent where they're saying it out loud. They're just not clocking it, right? Like, well, that was a reach. What is she doing? Like, why is she just grasping at straws here? She leaves. They're like, Candice was playing an amazing game. She was a killer, okay? She's a great player. She's so smart. She's so strategic. then why would a good player put a name out as a throwaway and then the next day hard push that name when she's under fire it's almost like if she if you go with her you might she might get cleared maybe because that would be a good way to exonerate her right if she does something good for us is rob a traitor we haven't gotten there yet the clue is there and this is why i think a lot of people i've seen tonight already talk about how oh it's going to be like a boring game to the end now because it's rob's path to win this is that one little kryptonite that is left on the season and he still has to navigate he's worried he should be but the rest of the faithfuls did not seem to really have even had a inkling no they're more so like johnny weir johnny looked sad let's look at him next it's so funny to me that we used the lisa voting for a housewife was sketchy lisa gets banished candace did not vote for a housewife sketchy banished and now johnny voted for for candace and seems sad about it weird um johnny weird johnny weird yeah listen i am i want to hear what i want to talk about the end of the episode if we can rob or do you want to go a different right that's fine i really okay i really want to talk about rob roush's decision at the end of who we wanted to blackmail to come into the turret okay because we get a short list of three men which i think is the right call because three women have been banished now man you have to bring a man in there to push out or at least to have be a suspect in front of you if you know we start looking at men here um he brings up johnny which i think would have been a great choice leading into tomorrow just hard push him out let me ask you a question and then do you think another woman gets banished before we're down to like the final four a woman shouldn't get banished until a man is revealed to be a traitor in my opinion yeah until a man is shown to be a traitor don't do that um but this season is unpredictable yeah yeah i i don't know but i i don't know if we like the the faithful that they're gonna do what they're gonna do we could literally end up having someone be like what if the housewives uh thing was true what if it was all housewives yeah now dorinda gets banished or they're like hmm why didn't candace vote for natalie that night was she in between two traitors and didn't know where to go it is wild though that candace was not able to get more mileage out of like guys they would not pick more than one housewife not enough push there yeah i agree that should have been something to to do i think that candace did a good job of of working like i think on an emotional level and as a human level the way she spoke at the round table was not suspect it was not intense it was not heavy handed. She always was. She did really good there. The only issue was, I think the substance was not there. She didn't have it. Yeah, there wasn't enough. She's like, he dropped his fork. He does not get flustered. And all of a sudden he didn't talk. Now he's talking. I don't know. It's giving traitor. No, there wasn't a lot there. I think also Rob's easy answer is, I wasn't flustered. I was just sad. I was just frustrated. I lost my friend. It's like, oh, he lost his buddy. No, we don't like that. Poor guy. Yeah. So back to the pickings for the blackmail. I thought Johnny was a good choice. I would have thought even Steven is a good choice for the same reason. Because I do think that he brings up Eric as someone who maybe he could ride with a little bit. The concern being Eric could do or someone could do to me what I did to Candace and to Lisa, which I think would be my number one concern. if I'm a trader who has committed trader-on-trader crimes is you come in, you're not going to believe I'm going to ride with you. I just killed two of my own. Why would I work with you? They are very fond of him. Yeah, this is the most intriguing pick for me. I think the other two picks, while better choices strategically, a little more boring, because obviously I think he's going to get his way with having Steven leave or Johnny leave. What is Eric doing in the turret? That's my question. I'm very curious about how this would go. Eric has been the self-proclaimed nice guy all season maybe not so much when he said he hurt tiffany maybe uh but he felt bad about that he felt bad he did feel bad about it and so i can't even imagine eric as a traitor i listen first of all the man tonight revealed he is the master of two senses ears and eyes um he immediately saw the handwriting and clocked that it was johnny weir so kudos to him uh two for two on the guesses here my guy oh my god yeah um how did he get johnny weir's handwriting he's like i know that handwriting anywhere that's johnny weir's handwriting also like is he studying the chalkboards is that what it is maybe i would text eric if i'm johnny weir and be like that's so insulting because no offense to rob that looked childish that handwriting looked a little bit the e and the r went a little bit like mishandled anyway um eric is an interesting pick for me because who's looking at eric nam as a trader i don't think his name has come up at all no he was one of the people who had a very wrong piece of evidence a la ron funch's a la colton and he has slipped under the radar no one's took him to task for it at all. I thought that this was a good poll from Natalie who said and Eric voted for Lisa at the roundtable, right? Week one. Hold on, he said that. That's not right. Lisa wasn't the whole time. She did say that. I'm like, yeah, that's a good point. But now I'm like, that's not what happened. He voted for Madonna or Portia. Lisa didn't get a vote for Lisa. The night Ron went out, the first night Ron went out. Yeah, maybe she met at the first, that's what he met at the first round table. The first round table in the last couple of days. It's like, oh, Eric would never, I mean, to be fair, if I look at Eric, I'm like, oh, he would never go against his traders if he was a trader. So maybe that's part of the logic there. And now he's voted for two traders correctly. Or three, did he vote for Donna? Yeah, three. Eric's three for three. Yeah. Did he vote for Donna at the very first roundtable? No, he voted Portia in that first roundtable. Yeah, okay. Well, listen, you can't be 100%. Can't have them all. Yeah. So how do you think, and we've seen almost nothing about the relationship between Rob and Eric, although Rob did famously, when Tiffany got voted out, say, I've listened to Eric's music and I trust him. and maybe that compliment was enough that that eric fully trusts rob um because you know i i feel like these two could work very well together um because i eric does give me loyal energy first of all if eric this if we get into episode nine and eric says i'm too nice i'm not doing this treachery and just gets murdered and is out of the game i would be so irritated you have no idea do you think that's gonna happen i've seen it happen at least at some point on the traders before so it's not like a first time ever but i mean if there's anybody who's gonna do that eric could give that energy i just don't see why you would ever decline an invite to stay longer and do something else yeah i mean he was like but could i you know i don't think he's gonna like just self evict here no no no this close to the end are you joking me please so eric assuming he accepts the position then him and rob go back to the turret right do they make them go back to the turn they just do it right there that eve that eve they they go back to the trick they gotta murder someone yeah but could alan just show up and like okay eric you're in the you're a traitor now who will you murder he could i mean rob's already gone to the turret like how long is this night going to be long as long as it needs to be rob as long as it needs to be yeah i can't think of they've murdered elsewhere but the turret or in plain sight yep okay in the past so who will rob and eric murder okay you gotta at this point you gotta keep and this is not what i want strategically speaking you gotta take some women out in the murder side because banishing they're looking for a male trader now or I think Mark hinted that they should be looking at it while I have seen a all women turret in the past I think that they're now going to shift their focus so I do think and Kristen's safe Kristen has the shield we know this so I would be worried and Rob won't want Mora to leave Rob won't want Natalie to leave who does that leave us with Dorinda who could get murdered like oh well the housewives were keeping her safe she's gone now or tara could go tara leaving could be a world where they implicate natalie for it somehow but no tara leaving is bad for the johnny pin job is it just dorinda are we just going to say goodbye to dorinda next episode you can't kill tara and then try to frame johnny yeah that would be like killing colton and then pinning rob for it we just saw that not work yeah so yeah we're killing women that not not us not you and me but the traitors are murdering women and we're banishing men at the round table so yeah i mean kristin kristin kish has the shield that's what i'm saying she can't be in she can't be in contention that's a good shield pick up for kristin kish very good yeah yeah so now if natalie got whacked here also then people say that no way it's ever rob i just think that natalie is too close an ally to rob for him to consider but we just saw him willingly let colton leave um i mean when you have a lot of allies rob does it matter if you get out your second we didn't mention mora right we morris mora pencil mora in for the finale at this point i think more is not going anywhere okay um i just can't see it so we'll find out when we come back uh what they're going to do in terms of the next murder yeah i'd love to get your take on the mission for this episode and i love this i okay good because i had a hard time really saying like is this good is this bad this is sort of like our tom sandoval singing to the doll mission i will say this was the first time since i've been off the show that i had fomo about one of the missions i need to know the answer to this question robs i'm going to start off by this would you be the cow getting milked yes or no whenever possible okay good to know put on the record um yeah i love this mission and i can see why you'd have fomo this is just fun This is a fun mission. It's, you know, Pictionary, but with posing, this is a winner for me. And I love people making faces. I learned tonight that Rob Roush potentially could be our strongest trader we've had on the U.S. franchise since Surrey Fields, but might be the worst charades player I've seen in my life because the picks this man had were so bad. What do you mean you thought that could be an ostrich? In what world was that an ostrich? please the one team with maura and dorinda and natalie and tara like they were actually pretty good at it then it was like the i don't know was the can was the candace steven uh johnny weir and uh who else was with them oh eric um they did fine they were fine it was it was on the guessers yes i mean the the cow one couldn't have been more cow if you tried no one clocked that oh candace is suddenly not wearing the coat they were cosplaying as the cow yeah it couldn't have been more cow so i i think the guessers got a little bit in their own head about it potentially i didn't think we were going to get this i know this was earlier in the season on traders uk and they're like, oh, this is a fun challenge, but maybe this is like a little too quaint for traders US. Quaint. What is, what does, tell me more. It's just like, sort of like I, it felt like low stakes for the traders. So I kind of thought like, oh, maybe we're not going to do this in the US version. Yeah. I think that this feels like more of a, and I believe they did this earlier in the uk this does feel a little bit more earlier in the season it's almost more team building right than it is like high stakes like i need to find a shield or like we are bagging a lot this is a little more like goofy and i feel like you want more goofy at the beginning potentially yeah because otherwise it was a tense episode like tense beginning tense round table but then it was broken up by you know a little bit of like slapstick uh scavenger hunt yeah which i still i enjoyed but i think earlier in the season might be better for this themed mission what did you think about that the group had to pick who gets to go to go and be in the group that can find the shield and you had then okay i think it's was it eric who suggested what if we nominate people to go and get the shield i this is great because it does kind of force you it does force people to show their hands socially a little bit of like who are you gonna vouch for it also allows people to get clues if they're sussing somebody and they pick someone else are they gonna then examine that person but i think ultimately i like it because it keeps because everyone will naturally vote for themselves i think removing that option allows it to become a little bit more easier to deliberate Because you don have someone advocating I need it I going to die And it's like, all right, all right, quiet, quiet. We all feel the same way. How about you just tell me who's the next person that should get it? Yep. Go that way. And so Mark and Kristen get nominated to go in. But then Rob Roush says, hey, I'm really scared. I'm really worried. Which I think is very good acting because your friend Colton just died. You have to imagine I'm next. Now, later on, they look back at Kansas like, did you see when Kansas was like, I nominate Johnny Weir? That was sus. But nobody is like when Rob's like, I need a shield. No, Rob, they're not. They don't have. It's like it's like you almost see players with different glasses on. So you put this person, they look suspect automatically. This person doing the same thing. They're reading innocent to you. Rob is especially beloved by this cast. I think that maybe the traders did a good job because I think that the two people who were really like the most like not swooning over Rob in any way were me and Ian. And you paid the ultimate price. Maybe Mike. But even Michael Rappaport, I think, was pretty taken with him. yeah he called him handsome and said you can't be you're doing the handsome thing yeah it's not gonna last long i don't remember tiffany really making a big fuss over him but everybody else rob why weren't you being complimentary i didn't think to i didn't think he was a traitor though i just yeah he's fine he's fine a fellow rob but it wasn't like you think yeah do you think you would if you we put every rob in the world in the room with you yeah do you think you will like most of them or dislike most of them i mean i tend to like most people i didn't dislike him but yeah i wasn't like oh my Like, this is the greatest guy I've ever met in my life. And I would say out of the rest of the cast, maybe Candace wasn't feeling this way. But the problem was that she was a traitor with him. Everybody else was really buying whatever he was selling. Can I ask you a spicy question, Rob? Who's the better traitor? Boston Rob or Rob Rauch? that's a that is a tough question i i would say based on the body of work i mean i think that uh rob roush has now gotten further i think than boston rob i think that this is when boston rob ends up going out i think that rob roush was willing to let other people lead in the turret for a little while and yeah boston rob does not let other people lead so boston rob is an extremely capable trader but this is another theory that i've had that i've never gotten to say anywhere i think you you don't ever want to be the top trader until like later in the game ideally you want to start the game as like the second trader in command like that's a better place to be uh if there's like a trader in the turret who's like, all right, everybody, I'll tell you what's going on. I'll call the shots. You're better off being the person who's riding shotgun with that person as that that person is going to it's very hard for that person to go wire to wire to the end. Whereas if you could sort of be the trader who's like laying back a little bit more, it's maybe not necessarily better television, but I think there's more longevity there. i've always thought this and i will always echo this being the passenger princess is where it's at that's where i excel in life um and then in games also it absolutely helps because people always say let's go for the head of the snake not too often do we see people going for let's go for the second in command even though that's not a bad move either um i think that it's something worth thinking about. Yeah. And then in this game in particular, that there tends to be a point where the person who is trying to drive all the action in the turret, like that person does almost inevitably get caught. And then you are in a primo position, like we've seen Rob be able to do to then be able to jump in and be one of the people saying like, aha, I got you now, Lisa, I got you now, Candace, where nobody was thinking that he has been having traitor behavior from the start. Yeah, I think that that is absolutely true. I think also with this game, I think being the lead traitor or the traitor that's doing the most weathers you down a little bit. I think that's when the, you know, you end up showing a little bit more of cracks and a little bit more, you know, evidence carried against you. because it is a very heavy crown to wear for the entirety of the game, I think. Not many can pull that off. So Boston Rob is an incredible player and that he only plays one way though. He wants to be in charge from the jump. And so he's gonna give you good TV on the traders, but I think it's gonna be very hard for him to get through what, 11 round tables and not have people be gunning for him. yeah it's just it's tough and i think also you know i've seen some people mention this also i think obviously uh basuram does come with a reputation and i think that's very hard to to escape from um i think my answer would still be if they come in as day ones no one knows who they are who would do better in the trader role i still think because of what you have mentioned the personality traits the more i lead more don't follow i think i would give the edge to rob roush based on the body of work that we've seen here. But I think it's a very fun conversation to have. Rob Roush has more tools in the toolbox where, you know, Boston Rob has, you know, several different things he can do, but also he's not going to flirt with the women. He's not going to flirt with the men. You know, I think that maybe, you know, a 25-year-old Rob Mariano, probably not going to flirt with the men. but you know he is like at the age that he played traitors as only like so many things he can do where Rob I just think has more avenues to be able to hook people yeah I think so I think so and I think that's something worth keeping an eye on going into the end game now where very clearly in a turret of him and Eric Nam. He is in the leader spot. How does he do from that spot now? He has great relationships with a lot of different people and his relationship is different with a lot of other people. Yeah, I think so. Okay. Let's go back to Candice in terms of how she... Candice is a traitor. Could you put her in perspective? I think that Candice has a lot of features and characteristics that are great for a trader. And when we saw her excel, we really saw her hit the high highs of some of the best traders out there. I think she's incredibly social. She's very calm in stressful situations. Even today, when her name comes up, you do not see her go panic. You do not see her running around. You don't see her yell at anybody. She's cool, calm, collected, trying to figure out her next move. I think that when all is said and done on the dust clears, I think the only thing, and I think Candace was adaptable to a certain degree as well. I think the only thing for me is that it was way too clear that Candace was way loyal to Lisa. And when the Lisa name starts going out there, I think it's one thing to not vote Lisa. I think she did a little too much defending of Lisa and saying she doesn't believe it to be Lisa. and that I think may have been for me the weakest point of her game. Yeah. But otherwise, I just, I think she had a lot of the qualities you look for in a trader. And I think that she was an inspired pick to be a trader this season. She was a great, great pick from the producers to be a trader and she did so much. I think Rob, in addition to snowing the faithful, he also did a really good job of snowing the other traders. I think that Candice and Lisa sort of had the perception that like, okay, he's just go with the flow he'll do whatever we say he's gonna be good in the missions he's the quiet one nobody's looking at him and so i think that they were both taken by surprise when they learned uh not only like the relationships that he built but that the fact that he was so willing to go against them yeah and i think that for me the other part is i think the vote of Rob was probably the next big qualm I had with her game because while I do like the I do find a world where this is a warning shot to be appealing because it's not the way she projected it or talk to him about it I don't think it holds any of that power in fact I think it only but confirmed to Rob that oh you don't mess with me I have to push you out also ASAP because I do think that what Rob had going for him was he could lie to her face that like you can have whatever you want here do the kill it's on you this is me making up to you i think that allowed him to carry the facade a little bit longer even if candace didn't believe that rob was with her at that point i think that she didn't have that deniability i think the vote always yells you're coming after me which is why from after the vote to before they got to the turret he hears steve uh sorry steven he hears Colton say Candace and he's not fighting against that. The woman just put my name down. Why am I, why would I ever do anything, but just silently let you think that and move on with that. Did the traders get very unlucky that after the vote where Rob cast his vote for Lisa, it ends up being the black banquet and they have no turret that night. And so they, then they have that little like powwow in the kitchen. They go to the black banquet and then they show up, they, the powers that be, let them be the first three at breakfast, which they get a little time to talk there, but they don't get a real turret. And I kind of feel like that maybe, could there have been some healing? Could they have talked it through a little bit more in the turret? I think there could have been a world where there's healing potentially, because I think we obviously saw them talk about it after, and it still didn't go all that well anyway. I think the problem is, is that it was too close a vote, Rob. Lisa barely survives. And I think for her, she's like, you basically were very okay with me leaving. So even if Rob comes in and says, you know, I just didn't think you were going to go and I couldn't vote Ron. It's like, oh, I survived by one vote. That could have got me out. I don't trust you anymore. I was expendable to you. And I think it's hard to put that toothpaste back in the tube at that point. Okay. I want to talk about Colton. And we talked to Lisa Rinna the other day and Lisa Rinna said to us and we had the clip, got a little traction. She said, you know what, Colton, I don't think he's that smart. I wonder. Could Rob have been feeding him information about me? And Candace also in the episode wondered, was Rob feeding her name out to people? Yeah. out do you feel like and specifically to colton do you feel like that happened no i don't think that happened because if that happened if rob was secretly and subtly like like uh um i don't remember the guy's name from from game of thrones not little finger the other guy um tyrian i don't remember his name no the uh the um varus varus if rob was playing a varus game of whispering to Colton's ear and being like, we should start looking at Lisa. And then suddenly Colton's bringing up Lisa. They would want us to see that from the trader. I feel like, I feel like the, to me, that's something they would absolutely do. I also don't think that Rob is somebody who would be like, oh, I'm going to, because to me, that's not a rule break, right? Hinting, hey, this is who my suspicion is. That's not a rule break. A rule break is being like, yo, she's a trader. go for her and we'll get something i don't think he's doing that i don't think he's having the episode i believe in the car that colton tells rob hey i i i'm going for lisa tonight i'm going for lisa and rob he he asks rob what do you think about this and i believe his answer was uh it's plausible could be but yeah it does that does not seem like the reaction of a person who's like yeah like uh like remember you told me that look at lisa remember exactly and what do you mean you told me she's a traitor i think rob's one of rob's assets is he's very good at the yes and um he just you say this like okay yeah that could be the case and like that he moves on and that makes him sound like he listened to you he cared and also let's not forget colton has said a third of the cast name this season he was on half the season he said a third of the name of the cast so like i don't like he was right what twice um and even then the donna one was a group effort everyone thought it was donna the lisa one is the only time where he kind of snapped um and even then that was on the heels of him having a horrible read on tiffany um and then right after that he was making up for it with a horrible take on steven yeah so yeah okay what do you think Let's talk about the legacy of Colton for viewers, for future players of the traders. What do they take away from the Colton game? Okay, what they should take away is if you want to be on television, being loud, being wrong, but being active will get you there. You will get that television time. what I hope as far as a quote-unquote lesson people take away from this is being a detective as a faithful unfortunately should come at the cost of you getting tv time because you have to do a lot of it in the shadows because if you do a lot of it out in the open you are going to a be a target for the traders b I think live long enough to be a target to your fellow faithful who you're quote unquote trying to help i think it is he played it in a way where it was like he was in a good position he burned a lot of the goodwill pushing out tiffany then he had his own fellow faithfuls turn on him and i think his legacy leaving the game was you did this to yourself um you truly did because there's also not many instances where you have a traitor angel basically who's like leave yeah go away but we a lot of ways i think this season has sort of defied the meta where I think that traditionally the players who are loud and wrong tend to survive quite a bit further into the game. And you had in the case of Michael Rappaport, who was probably an exception to all of the rules, he is loud and wrong and then finally ends up getting banished. But in the case of Colton, very rare for someone to be loud and wrong and murdered. yes this typically does not happen and i think that's why it was very surprising tonight because it genuinely did feel like we were about to get to a place where he was going to get banished for his for his sins right um it ends up not happening simply because of two things one um rob really felt comfortable letting candace take this as a way as a peace offering that's like bailed as a you're gonna get yours anyway um two the other thing also is that his connection with colton was so strong that that is the catalyst for him like the murder reason is because this man and this man are too closely connected i don't need that on me and he's one of the louder faithfuls i don't need him to be looking at me or saying my name so that's why i want to go back to the round table, one of the head scratchier moments of the episode. So, uh, the tide has clearly turned against Candace. Everybody's on board with Candace. We're going around the round table, Alan, we get, uh, get to Natalie Anderson. He said, okay, we have, uh, five votes for Candace. If there one more vote for Candace and Natalie is Tara you are shady I voting for you Now it did give Rob the kill shot on Candace which I sure that that made for better television than Natalie giving the final vote Yes. But I don't think that Natalie and Rob were coordinating what would be best for television. natalie voting for tara here is curious at best it's definitely a choice um i think a throwaway vote no this was clearly like and no one was going to see this throwaway this was 100 personal um she does even say as much of like hey yeah you ran my name out there and i feel like you were lying to me and therefore i'm giving you a vote she does later say admittedly that like yeah i felt stupid once i wrote that but i i understand people who might think natalie is a traitor i am a little uh hard pressed to see where natalie after this time thinks tara is a traitor again i don't think she sees tara as a traitor i think she just wanted to get a little bit of back there that's how i read it at least some irritation perhaps i don't know i think she thinks tara is a traitor you earnestly think she thinks tara is a traitor i'd be very surprised oh god oh god what would that look like i mean she did you feel like she's like hey you said my name so you're getting a vote tonight we know candace is going home but you're i'm writing your name down tara you're on notice do you think there's a world after she votes then candace is revealed to be a traitor she's like oh okay well then it's not tara like do you think if she thought it would she now no longer think it i don't know i don't know we'll see we'll find out i guess only time will tell yes yeah i mean tara is even in the confessional talking about like uh like i'm really bad at this yeah but how am i still here she says oh that's a classic okay rob can i talk to you about something else that's been on my mind and now i do think admittedly the tide had completely shifted and johnny could not not vote candace like that's the only move left here to me um i just pictured an end game where it's candace johnny and tara and johnny and tara push out candace they're the two left they win as faithfuls i think that's a very clear route they could take it's just it's i don't and i get it right i get that he says this but like to me i'm like i don't like that he out loud says could she be a traitor she's my friend and then she and voting her after because i'm like come on like you got and the thing is i recognize that if the tide shifted you have to go that way but i kind of didn't love that this happened also Tara votes Candace's yep for me the nail the confidence you said my name here um I don't know it's tough because I think that if I suspect a traitor to be a traitor and I'm allies with them my number one thought would be where do I rank in their in their chart am I second place third place because I'm second or third place I don't think they're gonna let me die yeah I think that was a mistake from Candace to thrown Tara under the bus yeah and that was something it wasn't in the round table but at the round table that i went to portia was also also threw tara under the bus people are like what what do you like why are you throwing tara under the bus like i think that that's one of the reasons a lot of people voted for portia yeah i think that um i think tara is just one of the people where you get one look at her you talk to her a little bit and you're like i think she's pure faithful like there's no way she's not the nicest person yeah tara's someone i think you got a murder early in the game um or even like like fourth cycle just to piss everyone off that they took tara from us you know lord not ekansu lord not tara i think that's kind of what you're looking for there because tara at this point outside of natalie's one vote for her i don't think she's receiving another vote she's also a candidate for me to make it to end game Truly. Pooja, anything else on your mind from episode eight? Yes. I am very interested to see the discourse this week. So y'all please in the comments, I want to see this. I want to see this on all the posts. I want to see this on socials, on Reddit, anywhere you want to go. I want to hear your thoughts on Rob Roush as a player because I'm very intrigued. I think he's done a great job. Questionable on the Eric pick. But again, if Eric wants to just work with him, then it's a great pick altogether. And we'll see how he navigates the rest of this game. I'm very curious at that. Can I actually speak my piece on one thing about Candice before we wrap up? Okay, because I think this is going to come up quite a bit with a lot of, not a lot of people, but some people see what Candice did by pushing Rob's name here, akin to what Dan did in season two with Phaedra. And I don't agree with that take. And I want to explain why, if possible. So my thought process is that what Dan did was he didn't speak at all, didn't share anything. And then in the 11th hour, hard pushes the name of a trader that is completely undetected with no evidence, with barely little kind of going all in because he's done right. this game is over candace not only yes she does the throwaway vote then after that in the library finds out figures out rob sabotaged me rob let me murder colton to then pin it on me because colton was saying my name and he knew that and he didn't tell me at that point she knows what rob is doing because she knows her name's been circulating she's like i'm not gonna let that fly i'm gonna push him back. Granted, not enough evidence to go with. She tried her best. But to me, that's vastly different than what happened in season two. Dan was asked many times for a name. He didn't have one, but I don't know if he had also been seeding. But when I do tell you a name, I promise you when I don't when I take a shot, I don't miss. And throughout Phaedra's name. And I think he said, hey, if I'm wrong, banish me tomorrow. But I guarantee you 100 percent. Phaedra is a traitor. Trust me on this. And then Phaedra somehow was able to get away from that for a while and was able to get back under the radar somehow. But I think that that was sort of like the beginning of the end for Phaedra. In terms of what Candice had to work with, it was such a great moment with her and Rob where you know he's going for her she's coming for him something that I've never seen before on the show Rob says to her come on it's just a game it's just a game to be met yeah and then she's like if I get banished tonight I will let that they will know it's you he's like well I think that's bad sportsmanship he says I think that was another huge mistake from from Candace because and you and I talked about this last week about the heads up. Getting the heads up is never good. I think that allowed Rob to be like, OK, I need to remain calm. I need to be chill and I need to not push back on her because I don't want to upset her. And she says something against me that's like irreparable. Right. And, you know. Yeah, she shouldn't have given him the heads up that she was coming, because I do think we talked last week. week, she had a lot of pieces where she had people like, uh, Johnny and Tara and Kristen. When we, when we go back though, and look at this and what went wrong for Candace, I do feel like that Candace was very loyal to the traders. She ended up losing her in, we'll use the chess metaphor again because of Rob has brought it up. She sacrificed Monet, who was a piece for her in terms of Monet was most loyal to her out of all the traders. She ends up also losing Tiffany who was most loyal to her out of all the traders. And then when she needed her, her backup, like some of them weren't there. she didn't have the numbers like rob had who never had to get rid of any of his pieces until yeah and i'm until colton and even then he has so many pieces that he can afford to lose one like he can afford to lose one it's like let's go back to chess again because that's very hot this season um if i have 40 chess i don't know how many chess pieces are like 24 pieces is it a 12 by 12 16 16 wow i am off um 16 pieces if i have 14 pieces and you have three i can lose one and survive you know what i mean like i really can and i think that's where he lay like he lies like you look at the rest of the group he also again i can't stress this enough the man has a dagger still like that is a second vote it didn't have to use it yeah he didn't have to use it that That is so impressive to me to have a dagger, not use it, still have hella allies. And like the sky's the limit. Just get completely exonerated because Colton gets murdered. No one's going to think you did it. And now the big bad traitor that was saying your name also gone. Poor, poor Rob. Sorry you had to deal with that, Rob. I'm so sorry. Like, you're so nice. You didn't deserve that. You didn't deserve to get, you're a throwaway. You're more than a throwaway. You're, you're a, you're a cool guy, Rob. You're not a throwaway. Thank you. We'll play some chess. Yeah, so then life's good. So he's doing great. He's doing great. He's playing the role that's given to him. He knows exactly what to lean into, into the level of his personality, of which parts need to be out for who and how to be in which situation. And I think that is underrated. I love the confessionals we got from him today. I think he has great insight into what he needs to do. And I think knowing himself helps. I think if you know who you are, you can go so far in this game. And he's correctly clocked himself, which is good because it prevents other people from clocking him. Okay. Anything else from tonight? Um, no, I don't know where we're going to go from here. As far as he might not even need to use the dagger, Rob, you know how flexy that is. He might not even need it. He might not even have to use it once. Yep. Incredible. But we have seen things change on a dime on the traders. So things are all going well, things were going great for Candace until about 10 minutes before the end of the last episode. Real quick, Sam, if you could give us the short link for the feedback show. If anyone has any questions that they want answered and you have them fresh on your mind tonight, put them in the feedback form for us so we can tackle them this week. I have a feeling this is going to be a very fun week of discussions for us to have. Okay. All right. And if we get word on some of these exit interviews, we will let you know. We've got coming up, of course, the incredible book, The Tribe and I Have Spoken. We were talking a little bit about Boston Rob before, but you could read about him and so many of the other Survivor greats in my book, Exploring 25 Years of Survivor. The Tribe and I Have Spoken. Had a great call today with the publishing company. We're working on some great surprises for people who pre-ordered the book. It's at robhasabook.com. Okay. And then also Lisa Rinna was great on the exit interview. Really enjoyed getting the chance to talk to Lisa Rinna. Booyah, I've said it before. I just think that Lisa Rinna was, I thought she was so cool. It was surreal to get to talk to her. I've had family members talk to me about how they saw that and everything like you talked to her i was like yes my life is weird um in an amazing way my only quam we didn't get enough time with her i know they kept it on a tight schedule so uh we'll see maybe later on maybe some of these people will come back around okay then we also talked about the traders uk season four puya annabelle and myself uh had a fun time on that one great season of the traders to talk through we've also got our tribe previews and is this going to be the new one tomorrow for tomorrow it's the vatu tribe preview that doesn't that word doesn't mean anything to you but it's the tribe with colby and genevieve and riz god and angelina and was it q kyle stephanie and aubrey i genuinely think i've done the trader stephanie la grossa i've done the sporkle quiz rob where you name all the contestants and the new era and i do really well in that if you made me do a quiz of all the tribe names from the last like they're all the same interchangeable forget it okay check it out a fun podcast with mike bloom going through all the survivor 50 previews of course that's all in the podcast feed and on our youtube channel as well uh tickets for live show march 11th with steven fishbacker on sale go to rob his website.com slash events plus uh we're also gonna have live show tickets for our upcoming shows in toronto and new york city yes here's an idea you both wear overalls to that show survivor overall fishback won't do survivor overalls he won't even understand why does he is he not a traders guy i i'd like to think he watched at least the first night oh if he didn't watch the first night come on steven what are we doing the first night you skipped i think he might have just got the vibes from twitter maybe he watched it we'll see we'll see thursday night he's playing blood on the clock tower can't watch traders. Okay. Then a patron Q and a on Fridays. I'm taking your calls from the patrons. So join us a three 15, I think tomorrow. So we'll be taking your questions about the traders survivor 50 and beyond go to Rob's website.com slash patron to get in on all of the fun. Then, Oh, uh, is this the Annabelle visit? So we just had that episode. We recorded a new one yesterday. don't have the thumbnail yet for it, but make sure you check out the lounge. We talked about a bunch of stuff. Fun fact, I did that podcast with 30 minutes of sleep in 24 hours. So we'll see how that went. I honestly, I had a weird experience on it where I was very cognizant that I was tired, but I was regular. I felt like I was regular. You'd be the judge. You all tell me if I was regular on that pod. Okay. Have fun. Yeah. And then of course on chat, BCC, everybody's talking about the traders. Lots of traders, alumni are there talking about the episode every single week, go to robinswebs.com slash VIP chat for that. You know, the thing that stinks about all this, where besides me not being on the show, is that the entire discourse around the traders, very confusing for me, especially in the chat, where, you know, Pouya, you have a very distinct name. You probably don't run into a lot of other Pouyas, but, you know, I just like constantly like doing the podcast. I see things in the chat, like Rob is so nauseating. I really don't want to watch the rest of it. I'm like, takes me a second. Like, Oh, not me. You have to scroll up and see the con. You're like, is that about me? Yeah. You know? Yeah, no, I am. I recognize how lucky I am. Cause when you type my name and especially like on Twitch, I have my name as my username. So it'll highlight my name. If someone's writing about me and I can be like, okay, that's me for sure. Yeah. Thanks Rob and Pooja. That's us, right? That's, I mean, I would like to think the Rob on the screen is the Rob they're thanking right now. Yes. So we'll see. Okay. I realized that because you are my Rob, I've been calling Rob, Rob Roush the whole season. That's fine. Like the entire way. He's been the two name person to me. Yeah. I mean, when I got killed, they really took away the R. It's really, he's not Rob R anymore. Yeah. I do think it'd be mad confusing if I was to talk about him on this pod with you and call him Rob and then call you Rob also. well if he was here in the I think we would know who you're talking to okay and by the way Sam Moore says rob is website.com slash traders feedback to send in your questions for a fun feedback show coming on this week okay all right fun stuff we love to get your comments having so much fun talking about the show are we in the home stretch now after this we are what three weeks four episodes yeah we're almost there We're almost there, everybody. All right. Thank you so much for joining us. Take care. Have a good one. Bye.