Week 9 (Days 330-336): What does it mean to quench the Holy Spirit?

Hey Bible readers! Welcome to TBR Deep Dive. I'm Emma Daughter, I'm Kirsten McCloskey, and today our guest is Emily Pakell. Thank you for having me. Emily, we know you very well, but for those who don't know you, would you share a little bit about what you do on the TBR team? I would love to, so the way I know these two ladies is I am on our writing team where we write our Bible studies together. And I also serve in our TBR Kids Department, so check out the BibleRecap.com forward slash kids to see everything we have to offer books, video series, a podcast, and on that podcast I get to be Miss Emily, who teaches the Bible to your kids, and it is one of my favorite privileges and joys in the whole world. That's awesome. We will refer to you as well as Miss Emily. Will we though? I think you should. I think you should. I have never called you that in my life. Please, please, so we'll go home. Please, see if I remember. Okay. Miss Emily. Yeah. That's awesome. That's great. We're super excited, have you? Thanks for having me, huh? It's gonna be fun. Kirsten, you got the first question. I got it. Let's kick this off. Okay. All right. What does because of the angels mean? What does this have to do with angels? So let's go ahead and read this in context, because I think it will be a little bit of an open-up, everything for us once we read it. We'll know exactly what it means. All right. This is coming from First Corinthians 1110, and it sets. That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head because of the angels. Because of the angels. So I'm clear. So I think should we just do the next question? Yeah. I think that makes it very clear. Great. Great. It's like this record scratch moment. It's an onset. We have to recognize that it's wise to think about what does Paul talk about multiple times and multiple places, meaning in multiple letters. And what does he address once? And if something shows up once, it's very, very likely he's addressing a specific problem or instance in that specific church at that specific time, probably because of their cultural context. These moments aren't always the most fun for us to try to understand in our modern culture, even though we do have historical records. So we're going to all attempt to answer this question with what we do now. So we know the church in Corinth. They were a little troubled. They had some issues. There's divisions, disorders, people are suing each other, and Paul's writing this letter really to correct them. Right? Yep. And in response to some questions that they have. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So here in chapter 11, Paul is reminding them of God's order, or God's direction for doing things in their worship service. And prior to this comment about the angels, he introduces this idea of head as a label for either a husband or a wife. And the label head, it isn't referring to value. It's not referring to value. That is very important. It's referring to role in relationship. And so Paul is instructing the Corinthians about how they should worship and reflect God's design for headship, which is a fancy way of saying, follow God's order or God's design for leadership and responsibility within the church family. So it's not about value. Men and women, they're both equal. But there's a flow to the roles and responsibilities. God's the head of Christ, Christ's the head of every man, and the husband is the head of his wife. So in their culture. Yeah. And so the one thing, I think this is really important with this passage that I just want to kind of highlight with where you're going with that is that we're not certain, but it's most likely that this is dealing actually with husbands and wives. So it's not just men and women. It's a great distinction. It's most likely about husbands and wives. And we just want to kind of address the elephant in the room that some things have gotten a little wonky when versus like this are taken and kind of run with. And so we just, exactly. And we just want to say that like what you mentioned, there is equality between men and women and husbands and wives in this context. Paul is just trying to correct the disorder and truly the chaos that I think sometimes it's hard for us to imagine in the Corinthian context. Like I think it was a little bit wild. He's saying, okay, let's bring this in. God is a God of order, which he'll mention later on in this later on in the letter. So just want to. Yes. No, but I'm glad you said that because in their culture, wearing a head covering was a way a wife could show respect to her husband in the TV area episode, terribly comforted to wearing a wedding ring. Yeah, which is a super helpful. It was as if the wives were showing up to church not wearing their wedding rings, which not only was disrespectful, it was distracting. Why isn't she wearing her, what's going on? Why isn't she, why isn't she wearing it? So pulsing, hey, even in the little things that maybe culture would say, hey, not a big deal, do what you want, let's honor our spouses and honor God, especially when we're gathering with congregation. Right. And it would have been much more noticeable than a wedding ring. That's a great analogy for now. But also this is a much more immediately noticeable piece. Yes. So if you're a cultural norm, then that's something to keep in mind that it would have been distracting. So then what's interesting, and I think the heart of the question is that if that's the reason, why does he then say because of the angels? Because it's distracting or because it's disrespectful. So why, why angels? One option. Most likely, this is the most probable option as scholars look at this passage. It's because angels are watching how we worship, like, like, heavenly observers. And so he's saying, hey, the angels, they care about God's design for order and authority, especially in worship. And so he's like, don't be careless. Even if no one else sees heaven's watching. Even if culture says who cares, do whatever you want, heaven's watching. But there's a lot of other views. So that's just one option. Some people think that this calls to mind angels covering their faces in God's presence. They get that from Isaiah 6, too. And they're saying, hey, women wearing their head covering was a way for women to recognize their status in humility, not before their husband, but before God. So that was interesting. It's a less favorable view, but it is a view that many people do hold who are Bible scholars. What do you guys think? You know, I think that's really interesting. I think keeping that context in mind and that culture in mind, that background is important. Those norms are important. And I do think it is an exhortation to work together for unity and most importantly for the gospel. I found what John Stott, he was a British theologian and pastor and writer. What he wrote about this passage was, it says, if a great drama is being enacted. History is the theater. The world is the stage and the church members in every land are the actors. That himself has written the play and he directs it and produces it act by act, seen by scene. The story continues to unfold, but who are the audience? And here we go. Here's why are the angels here? They are the cosmic intelligences, the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. And what a beautiful picture this could be. I hold this super open handedly. I don't know because of the angels. Exactly. But how cool is it as a reminder that there are things far beyond what we see happening and that our action, something as simple as what's happening in the Corinthian church here, have a greater impact than us. And so if thinking about the angels watching, motivate someone toward righteous living, go for it by all means. My thought would be, well, let's take that even further and remind ourselves what we can be certain of in scripture, which is that God is watching us. I'm like, I think the angels trips me out. Yeah. Where I'm kind of like, yes. What? Because it's so out of the context. But then I was thinking, but God is seeing all things. God is there in the worship service. God is seeing what we're doing. And so how much more should we be aware? Absolutely. That someone is watching. And someone 21 tells us that the God who watches Israel and either slumbers nor sleeps, like he is always watching. And so by all means, if the angels being an audience is a motivator for sanctification and for righteous living, great. Yeah. Do it. But yeah. Yeah. I liked that. Ready for the next question? Yeah. We got to move in. Okay. This question comes from day 336. 14, I'll read the question then the verse. The question says, why did Paul say only two or three people should speak in tongues? And there must be someone to interpret. Why set limits on the Spirit's work? And this comes from 1 Corinthians 14, 27 through 28, which I will read for us. Verse 27. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three. And each in turn, and let someone interpret. If there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. What do we do with that? What do we do with that? Very much depends on who you ask. So I do want to point out in ground as in that the word tongues here, it either means the actual organ in your mouth or it can mean languages. I think it's important to ground ourselves in the first time we see this used as languages in the New Testament, which is an X2. So let's just go back there for just a little bit. So this is after Jesus' ascension. So when he had ascended back to heaven, and his disciples are gathered together for the Feast of Weeks, also called Pentecost. And that was celebrated at the end of the grain harvest. And we see what happened in chapter 2, verses 2 through 4. It says, and suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind. And it filled the entire house where they were sitting and divided tongues as a fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues languages as the Spirit gave them utterance. The chapter goes on to explain why this is happening because of Pentecost, because of the Feast of Weeks. There were Jews from all different areas who spoke different languages. And suddenly, because of the Holy Spirit's work, they were able to hear the gospel in their own languages. Verse 11 says, we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God. And as a result of that, there were 3,000 conversions that day. And so with that as the background, I think we're seeing the church walking on its wobbly toddler legs and feeling out what we do with the Holy Spirit's gifting. And I'd love to hear more of your thoughts. Well, and it's always interesting to me with the Corinthian church because it seems like the Holy Spirit was really active in their church in ways. Obviously, the Holy Spirit is active in every church, in every believer, but in ways that they could really see, like kind of very tangible in their worship settings. And so that's why Paul needs to write this in the first place. Well, yes, that end that, again, it's a letter of correction. They were getting out of control. So some of what is happening there is absolutely the work of the Spirit. But some of it seems to be the work of humans who are getting out of line and kind of directed from more, potentially more selfish motivations for their own kind of puffing up versus motivated by light. So it's not that these people speaking in tongues or prophesying, we're bad or that those acts at this moment in time and this church we're bad, it's that they were disordered. So I think about, you do TBR kids, I think about a kid with a messy room. And mom or dad comes in and there's damp towels on the floor, the bucket of Legos is spread out everywhere. There's clothes on the floor, shoes, it's a mess. And you walk through that room, you step on the Legos, it hurts. A dirty towel is on the floor that's damp. It's going to start to smell. They'll do, yeah. Having fun toys, Legos isn't bad, having nice bath towels isn't bad, but when they're not in their proper places, it becomes chaotic and people can get hurt. Smells bad, mold grows, you step on a Lego, it hurts. You miss use tongues, you miss use prophecy, people get hurt and Paul, they can get hurt, yeah. And Paul's like, hey, not on my watch. Yeah, let me redirect you. Right. And I think with the other piece with this page passage in particular is that some people think that the tongues are known human languages. So it's like someone speaking Spanish in a congregation where the majority of the people speak French. And so the French people can't understand what the Spanish person is saying, so they need an interpreter to understand that. It's the same principle, whether you think it's actual human languages that we know, or you think it's angelic languages that are not really understandable to us. The point of this passage is Paul saying, great, you guys are speaking in tongues, that's wonderful. We need those tongues to be understandable for the people listening, so they're being built up. And how radically inclusive is that, too? That everyone present gets to hear the same message and gets to hear the best message, the gospel being spoken. I, it's like Paul's headline is worship should help everyone grow. It shouldn't be the place where you show off your spiritual gifts. It really, I don't know that there is a place where we show off our spiritual gifts at all. But if there was, it definitely isn't the gathering of the saints, worshiping, worshiping together. I also think this question, the last part of it, it's really interesting. They said, why set limits on the spirit's work? And I think that that is not likely a question that the early church would have been asking. And possibly reveals maybe more how we talk about the spirit as a modern readers versus how they would have viewed it back then. Okay. Interesting. Can you say a little bit more about that? Yes. So like today, we know as you just acknowledge there are some people who think tongues is a known language. In this moment, there are some people who think in this passage specifically, it's a divine utterance. People disagree. Yeah. Today, people disagree about the works of the spirit left and right, the gifts of the spirit left and right. And so I think we could ask that question and being like, he is, is Paul like those modern Christians I know of who don't ever want to talk about the spirit? Okay. I see where we're going. Whereas the early church, it was like, hey, have you gotten the spirit yet? No, I've only gotten John's baptism. I haven't heard about this. Yeah. Okay, tell me more. I want to receive the spirit. That's not necessarily the posture we have today. And I think that's okay. But it's important that we understand the Corinthians would have thought about the spirit much differently than we do today. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. The, I was also thinking about kind of the second part of the question that what is happening here is that God through his inspired word is helping his, his people worship him as he wants them to, as he calls them to. Yes. So this isn't about limiting the spirit's work. This is actually what God is instructing them to do. So I think that that's important. Staying on the topic of the spirit, our next question comes from day 331, 1st Sloanians 519. And the question is, how do I make sure I'm not quenching the spirit? Yes, that's a really good tie-in. Yeah, that's a really good tie-in because that would maybe be kind of the mindset of the person that was asking the last question is, okay, I don't want to quench the spirit. So what are we doing here? Emily, you want to read 1st the Sloanians 519? I do. It says, do not quench the spirit. That's it. Bad thing. You heard it here first. I love it. Okay, so this is an interesting image that Paul is using. So when he's talking about quenching the spirit, this is think of someone throwing water on a fire. So this is about like extinguishing something. Other translations maybe say do not stifle the Holy Spirit. So if we kind of think a bit from a different perspective, Paul's basically saying don't stop, don't restrain in a negative way, don't suffocate, don't put out the work of the spirit. And so as Christians, obviously, we, nobody wants to be doing this. So we have to figure out what exactly is Paul meaning here because even for the Thessalonians, I don't think the church is walking around being like, boy, I'm really trying to quench the spirit today. Really like to quench the spirit today, yeah. And the other thing that's interesting with this is it's a little unclear if this should be understood in a corporate sense, in the sense of the worship setting of the Thessalonians, like as they are gathered in church, or is this talking about to them personally? So it's interesting to think about that from kind of both perspectives as we go into more of, okay, we don't want to quench the spirit. So we don't want to stop, restrain, put out. So what do we want to do? What's the opposite of that? So the opposite of that, one commentator put it this way. The proper response is to follow the spirit's direction and control without resistance. And I thought that was really helpful. You can think about this in Galatians 5.25 when Paul says, if we live by the spirit, let us also keep in step with the spirit. So does that sound a little more like individual advice to you or corporate advice for their whole community or both? Well, I would maybe lean a little bit more towards corporate because of the next verse. So I'm not turned there. Can you read 20 to us? Sure. Yeah. It says, do not despise prophecies. Verse 21 goes on to finish the sentence, but test everything. Hold fast. What is good? Yep. Exactly. And the final part is don't do evil. So I think that this is a good, very short succinct definition for Paul of, okay, don't quench the spirit. So don't despise these prophecies. But test them. So we want to make sure that what people are saying as application points from the word of God as any sort of statement, aligning themselves with, hey, this is what God says. We want to test that. But we don't want to despise learning about God and getting more understanding about what he says in his word. So that makes me think that maybe it's a little bit more of a corporate context because that's where they would be. Okay. Yes. Let me play the other side. Yeah. Yeah. Some people teach Acts 5 as an individual context. So when an I sense a fire out, they lie. Yeah. They die because they lie. Yeah. Peter said to her in verse 9, how is it that you've agreed to test the spirit of the Lord? And some commentators think that in this story, that's exactly what they're doing. They are quenching the spirit. They're refusing to acknowledge a con-inter conviction and choosing to say, I'm going to ignore it. We'll, let's see. We'll God do anything about my choice. So I think it could go both ways. But I think either way, whether you take it as a corporate admonition or an individual, you're still reaping the same benefit or having the same consequence. You're not getting to benefit from the spirit's directions, guidance, conviction, whatever it is. But I do think some listeners might be wondering, like, how do I know if I'm quenching the spirit, be it a corporate or an individual thing? How do I know if the believers at my church are collectively doing this or if I'm doing it as an individual? And I love that you started with the put out imagery of a fire because when you blow out a candle or you pour water on a campfire, instant smoke, there's a sign that the fire has been suppressed or put out. And in the same way, I think there are signals that we are quenching the spirit. One being, or really the biggest being, when we start to feel a lack of conviction about sin, it's a good sign we'd been previously feeling the conviction and then started to ignore that conviction over time. And we start to dull our consciences and feel less and less convicted because we're pushing it down. I've explained this to teenagers before with this idea of your throwing a party, maybe it's a birthday party or just people are coming over for a pizza night and you're eating on paper plates and you've got that one kitchen trash can. But there's maybe eight people, ten people over. And when you put your pizza in the trash, you flip that plate over and you push the trash down. And then the next person comes and they smash it down and they smash it down and they smash it down. And at some point the trash has got to go out. But it's much harder to take the trash out when all of the trash is compacted and stuffed in the can. And that's kind of what's happening when we quenched the spirit. We're ignoring the conviction, we're ignoring the conviction, we're ignoring the conviction, we push it down, we push it down, we push it down. And in Acts 5, that leads to literal death. And in other instances, the result or the consequence, it's going to vary. But at the end of the day, we know it's not good for our hearts. It's not good for the trash bag. The trash bag is going to rip. Same thing. And I think if we look at Paul's instructions around this instruction to not quench the spirit, we see ways to combat that. Rejoice always pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances, test everything, hold fast to what is good. These are the ways that if someone at home is listening and wondering, am I quenching the spirit? Fill your heart with these things. Yes. And I think that's really good. Yeah. Be obedient. And remember too, that the Holy Spirit is alive and active in you. Like it's not that you're like, oh, I got rid of the Holy Spirit. Like that's not a thing. Yes. So it's about, if you picture, I like the fire analogy because we sometimes think about the Holy Spirit as a fire where it's like the fire is already burning. So don't put water on it. Just let it burn. Like let it keep going. You know, so. Yes. So in another episode, Emily, sorry, you weren't here. I am sorry. It would have been great if you weren't here. We talked about blasphemy of the spirit. And that's, that's a totally different thing. Great. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Grapes. Every time we sin, we're quenching the spirit. But that's why we need to hear the gospel, not just for our moment of salvation. But every day we have to be reminded, hey, we're not perfect. But Jesus says, he paid the consequences of my sin. Good. We got to go to the next question. Kirsten. All right. Okay. So still in Thessalonians second letter now. What did Paul mean when he talked about avoiding any brother walking an idol-ness? So that's from second Thessalonians 3.6. So is this about laziness in general or something more specific? That is a great question. That's a good one. I love that one. So overall context, we haven't really talked about it yet of first and second Thessalonians. These are encouraging letters. But Paul is also correcting a lot of false beliefs that they were believing. And there were some do'sies. So they had been convinced that the day of the Lord was either right this second or it had already happened. And so a lot of what was happening is a result of that. It wasn't, let's go spread the gospel as far and wide as possible for all the seconds we have left. It was to stop working. Right. And so a lot of them weren't doing anything. It was this defeatist mentality. I mean, just sorry. The day of the Lord Jesus is returned. It's a term that is not right on the top of your head. Thank you. Jesus is returned. Yeah, keep going. I'm going to take us back to Acts again and I'm sorry, but not sorry about that. And so this is right after Jesus' ascension into heaven. And he's just been taken up to heaven. And all of the disciples are standing there around him and starting in chapter 1 verse 10. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes and said, men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus who was taken up from you into heaven will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven. And so essentially they're telling them, stop standing there. He's coming back and there is work to be done. Go do it. And I think that mentality is what Paul is getting at here too. Why are you standing there? Go do it. Right. Yeah. Before we die, Jesus hasn't come back. Right. He will. But he hasn't already. Yeah, exactly. And so we need to tell people, before we die too much deeper into that, I do want to say judging from the way this question is phrased. Here is the spiritual work of spreading the gospel and telling people about Jesus. There's also work and work existed before the fall work can be good. But after the fall work became a struggle, right? And sometimes work doesn't work out the way we thought it would or planned for it to or hoped or prayed for it to. And so this passage in Thessalonians, especially if you read down further and get to verse 10 where it says, if anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. That can feel really, really painful to people who are under employed or unemployed or struggling with health issues or living with a disability. And if that's anyone listening, I just want to say Paul is not talking about a lack of ability or opportunity. He's talking about something different. This is a flat out refusal. Yes. So I want to frame it. So even that, even that Greek word for idleness there refers to a disorderly or irresponsible behavior that is refusing to work. And so that's specifically when you're able. And I think that hard attitude that says, I am not going to show up to work today. I'm not going to do it. Even though you don't have a reason. You could or you don't have a good reason. I think it's important. I also think it's important that he's telling the church to keep away from people who claim to follow Jesus but are choosing not to contribute and expecting others to take care of them. So he's Paul's not saying, don't help the needy. He's very progenoracity. It's about people who won't work, not people who can't. It's not just about being lazy. It's willfully ignoring responsibility. Yeah. Well, and I think the other thing with that is that Paul already had addressed these people in his first letter to the Thessalonians. Yes. So in 1 Thessalonians 514, the instruction was for the church as a whole to admonish the idol. So meaning like urge on, because this idol word, the disorderedly or the undisciplined people, we need them to be taking their responsibilities seriously as a part of the church, as a citizen in their society. Like that, that was already addressed to them. And so this is an even harsher command about them because Paul is like, I already told, you know, you guys are being disobedient. So what was already, yeah, to what was already said. Yeah. So Paul's, Paul's elevating this now for the Thessalonians. Are we ready for the next question? Yeah. Okay. This one comes from day 331. The question reads, it seems like Paul takes this old testament passage, which reads, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain out of context and applies it to his situation. Aren't we not supposed to do that? I love whoever wrote this question. It comes from first Corinthians 9, 8 through 12. You got it Emily? I got it. It says, do I say these things on human authority does not the law say the same for it is written in the law of Moses, you shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain. Is it for oxen that God is concerned? Does he not certainly speak for our sake? It was written for our sake because the plowman should plow in hope and the thresher should thresh in hope of sharing the crop. And he goes on. Yeah. So I love this question because I am a big fan of reading the Bible in context as all of us are. And so what we just want to clarify is, so we're in general, we're trying to not take verses out of context and just randomly slap them on a you know our whiteboard and apply it to our lives. Not because we want to make something like less fun or harder to understand because some of this stuff is hard to understand. We started talking about the angels, you know, you got to dive deep to figure out some of that stuff. So but the reality is we get so much more truth out of our Bible study when we keep it in the context of the chapters of the letter that's being written or of the book that it's in. And so it's helpful for us and it will allow us to get so much more of God's truth into our lives in that way. But what we want to make sure is that I probably not a but I should just say and we want to make sure that understanding what it meant to the original reader helps us pull out the main principles, which then we can start to apply to our lives. And so I think that that's what Paul is getting into here. Yeah. And I think we can look at what he's doing in this whole section of his letter as well. So he's digressing. And as we've all heard and as we know, we today think that that weakens an argument. We even apologize for it without realizing what we're saying necessarily. We'll say, oh, but I digress if we go off on a tangent. But to the early reader and the early speaker, this was a strength was to be able to prove your argument through a digression. And so what he's been talking about is food that had been offered to idols. Should they eat it? Should believers not eat it? If they knew it was offered to idols, what about if they had no idea it was offered to idols? And so his whole point in the section is that believers should willingly give up our rights and preferences if it serves others well. And what he's doing now is he's laying the framework for the things that he himself has given up as an apostle of Christ. And namely, the right to be compensated for the labor that he's doing for the gospel and for the church. He gives some examples from everyday life. He says, if you serve as a soldier, you get paid for it. If you plan a vineyard, you get to eat the fruit. If you tend to flock, you get the milk. And then he's saying with all of that, if you plan to church, you have the right to be financially supported by it. And then he asks in verse 8 there that we just read, doesn't the law say the same thing? And spoiler alert, it does. There's many times in Leviticus numbers, Deuteronomy, that all talk about how the Israelites are to support the priests and how they are to make sure they have food essentially pay them for the work they're doing. And then we get to this ox thing and in Deuteronomy, it's from Deuteronomy 25, the section heading, if you read an ESB Bible says miscellaneous laws. And like very specific. They are very miscellaneous. If you want some fun, go back and read those. But he says, you shall not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain. I think this actually is connected to what he's talking about. Yes, I don't think it's out of context. So I did some digging on this. Okay, great. First reading, I did think that's kind of random. Yeah. But I learned that what Paul's doing, as you pointed out, is very common in his day. And he's using a Jewish teaching method. I'm going to butcher the pronunciation morning you. It's called call the chomer. And it means from lesser to greater. So you start with a smaller example in your logic progresses. If it's true in this small instance, how much more true must it be in the bigger case? He does. He does a lot. He does it in Romans 5. He says, if we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from wrath brought through him? And Paul trained under Gamaliel, right? Is that so? I think I've heard. Gamaliel. Gamaliel. But I'm pronouncing things crazy. Paul's teacher was taught by a rabbi who was an expert in this. He was an expert. And so Paul is well trained to use this, not a debate method, but this logical thinking to communicate a point. And I think in this episode, we've asked a lot of questions that are kind of like, throw in some shade at Paul. Just, you know, what was Paul doing? Is it wrong that he said this? Is that limiting the spirit? What's going on? But what Paul's doing is very intentionally speaking to God's people in very specific context. And he's saying, hey, if God cares about oxen, how much more does he care about the people who are doing his work? It's not a bad message. It's not an incorrect use of Deuteronomy. It's actually a message of love. And he's trying to make sure the Corinthians understand God's heart for people. Love it. That's great. You ready for question six? I'm ready. Let's do it. I want to set it up for us. Yes, I will. All right. This question is coming from first Corinthians 12. I've never really learned about spiritual gifts before. Is it important for me to know mine? Hmm. This is a great question. It's a great question. It's also a great reminder that some of these questions have come from the recaptains Facebook group where people who are following along with TBR can submit them and it's really honest. Yeah. Exactly. And makes a lot of sense because I do think, depending on what church you go to through denomination who's been discipling you pouring into your life, like this maybe is not something that has come up. And it's not like it's everywhere. Or you were in. Yeah, exactly. It's in some specific places and there's things that we want to know about it, you know, in that context. But it makes sense that maybe someone wouldn't have learned a lot about this. So. So it's coming from first Corinthians 12.1. You want to read it for us? I would love to. It says, now concerning spiritual gifts, brothers. I do not want you to be uninformed. So is it important that we can know that? Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. Here we go. So let's get out of here. No. Yes. But I would say not so you can label yourself, like take a personality test, put a label on yourself, string, spinder, whatever it is. Knowing your gifts helps you serve others well, not just figure yourself out or figure figure myself out. They aren't a personality test. They are different than personality or natural dispossession and your gift isn't your identity. But it's a way God works through you. So it's, it's like a tool He puts in your hand. Yep. And if He wants you to go build the house, He might give you a paintbrush and you a hammer and me a screwdriver. We're all on the same mission, but we've got different roles to play. And He's the one that's giving them. Yes. And some people even hold the conviction that your roles or your tools, your strengths, your gifts, whatever might change over time as God has different new tasks in store for you. So it's possible that you could be a paintbrush now, but in six years, you'll be a hammer or maybe you'll be both. I don't know. But there's some, I would say, differing perspectives in that regard. But we do know God gave every believer, or God gives every believer at least one spiritual gift. That's first Corinthians 12, seven. But we weren't given these for our own benefit. Paul says for the common good, meaning for the building up of the church that we would point others to Jesus. So yeah, it's really important. It's important. We should know what our gifts is, gifts are or what our gift is. And when we're not using them, the church is missing out. Yeah. You know, the NLT calls these spiritual gifts, the special abilities God gives us or the spirit gives us. And I love what you pointed out too, that these abilities, that the spirit gives us, they're coming from God. He's the one that does the work. And as you called out, it tells us why we have them. It's to serve the Lord and it's to serve one another. And I really, when I get the most theory about the work of the local church, I think about this in action. My husband and I are members at a really small church and we have one full time staff member. We have our pastor. And so the body is dependent on the body. There's nobody else to do it. It has to be us. And so we both get to lead volunteer teams and the conversations we get to have when we get to know these people are just mind-boggling and breathtaking. I think about a retired teacher holding a child's hand on the way to children's church. I think about a recovering addict who is setting up chairs and who spends the time after he finishes reading the word and talking to people about it. I think about this director of a homeless shelter in our community who institutes communion and gives us the benediction. And this is the body. This is the faithful, sometimes clumsy, sometimes awkward, sometimes even a little argumentative. But this is the work of the church serving God and serving each other. So I would say jump in and start doing it even if you're not sure how. Yes, I think that's one of the best ways to discover your gifts, start serving, try things, and other people will start to affirm what they see in you over time. And you can ask them, hey, I've been serving here for a few months. I'm really trying to figure out what my gifts are. What do you see in me and have that conversation? And I think that serving actually can be a more helpful way to determine your gifts as opposed to taking a spiritual gifts test. And unbeliever can take that test and they will get a result, but they do not have the spirit in them. Good point. Yeah. And so, and even more of a personality test. Yes, in preparation for this episode talking to Terrilee, she pointed out he have Moses took the test. He probably wouldn't get a leadership as a result. He's like, species. Please, there's so many better leaders. Don't pick me. Don't pick me. But it's your spiritual gifting. So it may not have anything to do with what you're naturally good at. Yep. And again, like we've said before, it's for the building up of the body of Christ, for the building up of the church. So in TBR, you would have heard or read this week that one way to figure out your spiritual gifts gift is to ask people like you were saying, Emma, in your church, how, how is the church being built up by my presence here, by my service here? And I think that that's really encouraging. And like you were saying, Emily, like just get out and serve, give it a shot. But I do think, I do think it's important, like what we were saying, the verse even says, you know, like we need to know this. This is something that God has gifted us with. And it's our responsibility for a way that that he wants us to love and serve his people. And also just start, just do it. Just start. Right. Yeah. Exactly. I love the expression start simply and simply start. Yeah. But that's all we've got time for. I think we're out. I'm getting the signal. I'm getting the wrap. The wrap. The people behind the camera are telling me we're out of time. Okay, I love it. Well, Emily, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. Thank you. What a privilege to have you with us. That was wonderful. And thank you all for taking a deep dive with us. We'll see you next week as we continue to read, understand and love the Bible in the God who wrote it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.