Hi, Matt here. Excited to share some prize winners, an update, and a reminder. Our April newsletter is now available on LinkedIn or Fastersmartr.io under resources. You'll learn how to handle blanking out when speaking. Also, please take a few minutes to complete our listener-viewer survey. Your input helps us plan and better serve your needs. Go to Fastersmartr.io. For completing our survey, Karan, Adriana, and Ryan are each receiving Think Fast Talk Smart Gifts. You can get your gift by completing our survey and being randomly selected. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and thank you for listening. Go to Fastersmartr.io. Now, here's a message from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you our show. Hi, Matt here. Career coaching often comes through our workplaces, which can be a great starting point. But sometimes you want space to focus on your priorities, not your organization. That's where Strawberry.me comes in. It's career coaching you choose for yourself. You answer a few quick questions, get matched with a vetted coach, and in many cases, you can start within 24 hours. You choose the coach, you decide the goal, and you get to talk honestly about what actually matters, whether that's a promotion, a pivot, burnout, or even leaving. There's no HR involved, no performance review lens, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch coaches. What I appreciate is the sense of agency. When you're feeling stuck, waiting rarely helps. If you've been thinking something needs to change, you don't need permission to explore that. Go to Strawberry.me slash TFTS. It's coaching focused on you. Think of it as therapy for your career. Have you ever felt that fortune has benefited you? Well, today you're in luck, because we're going to spend some time discussing luck. My name is Mattie Brahams, and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today I am super excited to be joined by my friend and now three-time guest Tina Selig. Tina is the executive director of the Knight Hennessey Scholars Program at Stanford and director emeritus of the Stanford Technology Ventures Program. Tina also teaches courses on creativity, innovation, and entrepreneurship. She's the author of many books, including Creativity Rules, Get Ideas Out of Your Head, and Into the World. Her latest book is What I Wish I Knew About Luck, a Crash Course on Turning Aspirations Into Achievements. Tina, welcome back. It's great to be back in studio with you to continue the conversations you and I have in lots of different areas and lots of different ways. Thanks for being here. It is my pleasure. Excellent. Shall we get started? You bet. I don't know if you remembered or not, but when we first met, it was after I gave you a cold call because I had seen your TED Talk called The Little Risks You Can Take to Increase Your Luck. Well, lucky me, that email initiated a friendship and collaborations that have gone on for a number of years. But before I ask you why luck is an important topic and one we should look into, I'd like to know, was I lucky that you answered my email or was it just good fortune? I think you were lucky. Many of those people have watched that TED Talk, but you took the time to actually reach out and you sent me a nice note and it certainly was interesting enough that I responded and the rest is history. So you were definitely lucky because there's a very big difference between fortune and luck. So fortune is the things that happen to you. So you happened upon that video, maybe it ended up in your feed, but then you were lucky because you reached out. So there's a difference between the things that happen to you and how you respond. We are in a constant dance between what the world gives us and how we respond to it. And that's where luck comes in. I want to hear all about luck. Tell me what got you interested in luck in the first place. Great. So when I was growing up, my father, who just recently passed away, he and I have debated about luck for decades. He always said, the harder I work, the luckier I get. And I really internalized that. And I would say it too, like, yeah, the harder I work, the luckier I get. Until I realized that was a shortcut. What is that hard work? And what can you unpack to actually make yourself luckier? And he and I continue to debate because he still felt that good things just happened to him. And I would say, no, no, no, look at all the things you did to make those good things happen. I see. So there's a big sense of agency in all of this. You use the term making luck. Can you unpack that for us? Because I don't think of luck that way. Help me more understand that. So I deeply believe that opportunities for lucky things to happen are ubiquitous, but they're invisible. And most people don't see them. And therefore, you need to figure out how to catch them. And so what you do is if luck is like the wind, invisible, but powerful, you need to build a sail to catch it. And so there are three ways that you build a sail to catch it. First, you have to start with your ship and you start with the internal work. You need to know your values. You need to know your risk profile. You need to know the story you tell about yourself. You need to know where you're going. You also then need to recruit your crew. That is, get other people engaged to want to help you because most luck comes through other people, right? There are other people who are going to help you reach your goals. And there are lots of ways to do that. And then finally, you need to hoist the sail. And those are the things you do every single day to put energy into catching the wind that is ubiquitous around you. I really like the analogy of the wind because it helps us understand that there's something very powerful that we can't see yet. There are things we can do. I want to dive deep into each of those three areas. But before we do that, I really enjoyed your new book. You argue something that I found really interesting that I never thought of. You argue that deep, authentic listening is one of the most underrepresented or underused ways to get luck or find luck. What is curious listening and how does it help us with luck? People know if you're paying attention, if you're present, if you're there. I mean, this is something you are masterful at, Matt. I mean, really and truly. And I know it's one of the reasons I love spending time with you and that other people do as well because you are really listening. You're listening not just to wait for your turn to say something in response, but you're listening and actually really responding to what you heard, often taking time to review what the person said. So let me do some reflective listening. This is what you said. Did I get it right? It builds trust in other people. And when people trust you, they are much more likely to want to help you. I see. So it's the being present, being curious, and then signaling that you heard that leads to the trust and collaboration, which opens up the opportunity for luck. I like that. What are some of the things that we can do to help prepare us to be lucky, to be open to luck? A lot of it has to do with not making things about you, but really making things about the other person. I was thinking about this this morning as I was anticipating spending time with you. And I was reflecting on emails I get from former students, for example, where they need something for me or want something for me. And I look at how they communicate it in a way that makes some of them luckier than others. There's a story that I actually have in my book about one of our former students at Knight Hennessey Scholars who ended up becoming the videographer for Kamala Harris at the White House. And this was a dream job for a young videographer. And you wonder, how did she get that job? How many people would want that job? And her story is so compelling. Her name is Aza. She had taken a course in videography when she was in college. It was the only course on videography that they offered, but she was so taken with it that she stayed in touch with her professor. She built a real relationship over the years and kept the professor up to date on what she was doing. When things were going well, they celebrated together. When she was struggling and looking for a job, her professor was the first person she contacted. She ended up going to graduate school at Stanford and, again, couldn't find a job after she graduated. She wrote to hundreds of different media outlets and newspapers. No one even responded. So she sent a note to this professor who she had been in touch with for 10 years, right? And had built that relationship and said, gee, I'm really struggling. Do you have any ideas? And the professor said, you know, I just got a call from someone who's looking for the videographer at the White House. A few weeks later, she had interviews and she ultimately was offered the job. It's in contrast to sometimes I get an email out of the blue from someone, someone who I haven't talked into in years, who then has a long list of things that they want. And I think, wow, that was so interesting that the difference between when you have a relationship and it's built on trust and mutual understanding as opposed to someone who wants something in a very transactional way. There's a laundry list of things that I need. Building that relationship is so important. I want to make sure that we're being very clear. We're not being manipulative. We're building a really honest, true, connected relationship and from that possibility comes up. Absolutely. It's about being authentic and you never know where those opportunities are going to take you. But you can be sure that luck is a long game. And if you build these authentic relationships, good things will result. Absolutely. I can reflect on many points of my life where it is through connections and relationships that have led to opportunity and it's because of the time I've spent nurturing those from a really honest, authentic place. Many people find it uncomfortable and awkward to do that kind of tending to those relationships. Do you have thoughts and advice on how to do that? I love that question because it shouldn't be so hard. One trick I have, something that I have cultivated over the last few years, is that when I spend time with someone, at the end of the time that we spend together, we always make another date. And you figure out what the cadence is going to be. Is it going to be a week? Is it going to be a month? Is it going to be a year? Same time next year? Whatever it is, it could be a phone call. It could be getting together for coffee. But that you've actually put a stake in the ground and saying, this is an important enough relationship that I'm going to commit to keeping that volley going and it's been really transformative because otherwise what happens is months go by and you go, oh gosh, I haven't seen that in a while. Maybe you reach out but now it's going to take months to get something on the calendar because everybody's so busy. But if you've already made a commitment, it's there and something to look forward to. A technique I use is after I meet with somebody, have a good experience, I'll often send some kind of message acknowledging it and sometimes sharing what the value was as a way to really connect. I love that idea and it really is that interpersonal connection and communication that matters. Well, you bring up something very, very important is acknowledging when people do something for you. I am the queen of thank you notes. I have a habit that every single night before I go to bed, I look at my calendar and I see who I engage with that day and what was meaningful and send off thank you notes. And not only do I end the day feeling really grateful and I think there's a big difference between being grateful and being appreciative. I feel grateful for all the good things that have happened but I also show that appreciation and that is another way to be lucky. In fact, one of the most powerful ways is demonstrating your appreciation because if someone has done something for you and they have taken that time away from something else and you need to acknowledge that investment they've made in you. I really like that distinction between gratitude and appreciation and taking the time to do that. There's a tremendous amount of evidence that says well being and happiness can be enhanced when you take the time to think about gratitude and appreciation. So I really like that. You have a great chapter in your book on unshackling luck through conflict resolution and when I saw that I was like what? Wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense to me. How does conflict dampen the likelihood of luck? If you wake up and the first thing you think about is some conflict that you're dealing with, it is a huge distraction. Think about the mental energy we spend thinking about you're being angry at someone or disappointed or frustrated. If you can release that, not only do you feel better but you've now untangled these knots that have gotten the way of the relationship. It's really powerful. I think about it all the time. I'll get up and I'll be like do I have any unfinished business with someone? Do I have anything I need to apologize for or to acknowledge? And it's fun. Just like tending a garden, if you pull the weeds up when they're little, it's easy. It doesn't take much time. But if you let them grow into big huge trees with big deep roots, then resolving those conflicts is going to take a tremendous amount of time and energy and you might just avoid it all together. So keeping your garden clean or you could say keeping your house clean, keeping your closet clean, keeping things clean, freeze your mind to be focused on other things. He just triggered something. I never thought of this but an apology as a way of opening up opportunity to luck. Usually I feel an apology is rectifying something negative and it does that for sure but it also opens up potential and opportunity. I think a lot of us feel overwhelmed and maybe embarrassed when we have to make apologies or remedy conflict. But if we see it as an opportunity to create something positive, that really does open us to lots of good things. I'm one of these people who can easily perseverate on thinking that everybody hates me. I can easily go to a place where it's like I did something wrong and I've learned to ask. It's like, hey Matt, we saw each other the day. Is everything okay? Usually it has nothing to do with me. There's something going on but because I am so sensitive, I might interpret the fact that you were distracted thinking that somehow I had done something wrong. So just checking it out. Hey Matt, is everything okay with us? It is in fact and in several of the points you've made, it boils down to not being assertive but being present and asking and taking initiative and that's where luck and deeper relationships can come from. I want to come back to conflict because you do something in your book that I found really interesting. You use a matrix to categorize conflict based on whether they stem from personal or professional behaviors versus the values we have. When we find ourselves in conflict, how should we adapt our communication style depending on whether we're dealing with a behavioral annoyance or some fundamental values clash? One thing you should know about me is I love two by two matrices. I turn everything into a two by two matrix. It's really a fun way to organize ideas. So this two by two matrix is personal, professional and the behaviors and values. So you can put different conflicts into these different boxes. Is this a professional conflict about a behavior like you're interrupting me in meetings or is this a personal conflict about a behavior like you're leaving your socks on the floor or is this a values based conflict in our relationship where we really just feel very fundamentally differently about something or is it a behavior? So it's very important to realize where you are and then what type of conversation you're having. So I know that at the business school they do a lot of work on nonviolent communication and not crossing the net and saying when you do this, it makes me feel this way where you basically take responsibility for how you feel but not try to attribute anything to the other person. I think that's really good for behavior but for values differences, the question should be about tell me more, help me understand. Now sometimes you have to go back and forth because a behavior conflict might be rooted in a values conflict but you're not going to know that until you start asking some questions. I want to get meta with you for a little bit. I have always admired not only your passion and your creativity but when you write and when you lecture, you are really engaging and you hook us in lots of different ways. In your new book you use this metaphor of the wind. What advice would you give to people who want to make their communication more engaging and connecting to their audience because you do it so well? I think it's about constantly putting yourself in the shoes of your audience. It's not about me, it's about you and how can I explain something in a way that's going to really land and so constantly readjusting your sale to make sure that it's landing well with your audience. In fact, I have a funny little secret or maybe it's a secret. I give a lot of talks and I always like to be a little bit unprepared. Now you wonder what does that mean? It doesn't mean I'm not prepared. I'm certainly prepared but I like to be a little bit unprepared because it makes me much more improvisational. It allows me to be responsive, reactive, to see what I'm getting and then tune my presentation to the folks that are in the room. It gives me a lot more energy because A, I have to be on my toes but I think the people in the room feel the energy that I'm not doing something that's scripted. I'm doing something that is for them and uniquely for them. In fact, it's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of being recorded when I give talks. I'm like, you know what? You had to be in the room. The experience is for those people who are there because if I'm playing to the camera, it's a very different experience than if I'm just having a relationship with the people who are there in real time. My thinking about the audience and what they need really helps you craft the different ways in which you can communicate. You are also a master of appreciating the context. I have seen you teach similar material differently based on is it in the morning, is it in the afternoon, big room, small room, all of that I've seen you use and that's important. I've spent a lot of my last several years focusing on spontaneity. Getting yourself to a point where you have it understood and mapped out but not memorized or scripted gives you that freedom to play and it gives you that confidence from which to play and to me that's energizing. Well, so you know there's an interesting other piece of the puzzle, right? So you write books, I write books. One of the things about writing a book is it actually gives you all the stories. It gives you a ton of material, lots of Legos, lots of building blocks. So whenever you get a question, you have a lot to work with and a book is just part of the process of preparing and doing the research so that when you're having a conversation with someone or you're giving a talk, there are many different things and so that makes it really fresh. It's like, oh, the next time you give the talk, I'll give a different example. I'll tell a different story. Yeah, and you don't have to be an author to take advantage of that. You can stockpile anecdotes and conversations to pull them in and in fact when I teach people how to do job interviews, etc., I say you should stockpile some examples so that you can pull them in. A good chef prepares the different ingredients in advance so they can assemble them as they're needed and that's exactly what we're talking about. Well, I love this idea that when people are going to be interviewing to think in advance of all the different examples, think of what would be those building blocks that are going to tell the story and see which ones fit the types of questions you get. We'll be right back to finish our conversation, but first a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. One pattern I see a lot, especially with people who have strong ideas, is that the hardest part isn't the idea itself. It's getting started. Turning something in your head into something real that others can actually see and engage with. That's where tools really matter. Squarespace makes it much easier to take that first step. It's an all-in-one platform where you can build a professional website, claim your domain, and create a clear home for what you're offering. You can set up scheduling, take payments, and manage your work without stitching together multiple systems. The design tools are flexible enough that your site can reflect your voice and your brand. If you're thinking about building something, even in a small way, Squarespace helps you move from idea to action. Head to squarespace.com slash tfts for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code TFTS to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. What do a tech CEO, a beauty brand founder, and a former president have in common? They've scaled bold ideas into movements and shared what they've learned on masters of scale. Recently, I joined host Jeff Berman to talk about communication, how to think on your feet, structure your ideas under pressure, and make your message land. We had such a practical, wide-ranging conversation that I wanted to share it with you here, so please take a listen. And then tune in every week to Masters of Scale to learn more about the strategies and mindsets behind extraordinary growth. Find Masters of Scale wherever you get your podcasts. And now, back to our conversation. You've been here before, so you know that we end with three questions. One I create just for you and the other two are familiar. You can keep the answers you gave last time. You can change them. I'm curious, you've spent a lot of time thinking about luck. What's the thing that surprised you the most about what do you feel lucky to have learned about luck? The most important thing is the incredible amount of agency we have every single day. And so whenever I walk into a new room, having the mindset that there is a prize in every room, it's up to me to find it. So I'll give you just little examples. I was just in New York for a couple of weeks because our son and daughter-in-law just had a baby, so I was staying at this hotel and I would go downstairs and interact with the people at the restaurant, interact with the people at the bar, interact with the people who were at the front desk. I made a point of getting to know every single one. Find out their name, chat with them, and you know what? Magically, all sorts of nice things happened, right? Magically, they would offer me opportunities like, oh, we happen to have this today, or can I help you with this? Magically, because I just said hello. One of the last days I was there, I was standing in line to get a cup of coffee in the morning at the cafe and this young woman, maybe in her late 20s, was there. And I know, don't miss an opportunity to say hello. So I turned to her and I said, oh, you have such a pretty dress on, which she did. I wasn't lying. I said, you have such a pretty dress. And she said, oh, it's from Rent the Runway. And I said, oh, that's so interesting. I've heard a lot about this from many of my former students who use it. We had a conversation. She said, former students, where do you teach? I said, I teach at Stanford. She said, oh, I went to the GSB. And by the end of the conversation, we were connected on LinkedIn. And she works at LinkedIn, in fact. And it's so funny because who knows what will happen as a result of that connection? Maybe nothing, maybe something, but it never would have happened if I hadn't said hello. I think there's something to people who've been three time guests on the show. And there are very few. You and Allison Wood-Brooks is the other one. You both say the same thing. You say, look for a treasure in every room. She studies conversation and says, look for gold in every conversation. It's that notion of going in with the approach that there's something here and the curiosity, the listening that I do might activate it. And that's very different than many of us enter in our conversations. In that sense of agency that you highlighted, I think we make our own luck and we need to make sure we do. And to know that you do and to know that every single day the choices you make, this is a very important thing. The choices you make today will determine the choices that you have in the future. And therefore you're constantly setting the stage, but it is a long game. Luck is a long game and you can't say, I didn't have a quick win. Therefore it's not working. You have to know that you're investing and that it compounds over time. Question number two, who's a communicator that you admire and why? This is an easy softball question because it's you, Matt. I know, I know, I know. But I really and truly aspire to be as articulate and thoughtful and prepared and flexible. And here you've basically made this your life's mission to help people be better communicators and you're just an incredible model yourself. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. We'll see if it makes it into the show. But okay, question number three and final question for this conversation. And I hope there are many more on the air. What are three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe? And I'm wondering if that's changed since you've looked at Luck. The prior time we talked about this, we hadn't talked about Luck. So. It's all about the other person. And you asked me for three, but I'm just gonna triple down. It's all about the other person. It's all about the other person. Communication and Luck comes from really understanding your audience and tuning your messages to them, really listening to them and being fully present with them. It is all about the audience. It's understanding their needs and the opportunities that unfold with you two together. And I appreciate that. And I knew it was gonna be great having a conversation with you. I am very fortunate and lucky to have you in my life. Thank you for bringing the notion of agency and what we can do to make Luck a reality in our own lives. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. This was an incredible opportunity. I feel so lucky. Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more from Tina, listen to episodes 111 and 159. This episode was produced by Catherine Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With special thanks to the Podium Podcast Company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok, and Instagram. And check out Fastersmartr.io for deep dive videos, English language learning content, and our newsletter. Please consider joining our Think Fast, Talk Smart Learning community at Fastersmartr.io slash learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, an AI coach, and book club opportunities. Again, that's Fastersmartr.io slash learning to become part of our Think Fast, Talk Smart Learning community. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe, and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.
