This is an I Heart podcast. Guaranteed human. Music saved me. I tell kids all the time, whenever I meet a kid, you know, it's, oh, how do I get into this business? But I say the same thing. It's like, look, if you ever wake up one morning and you have a strange fascination with, you know, arugula, and you think to yourself, God, I could market the world's greatest arugula. I could make a strain that's like hybrid arugula or something, and every Whole Foods and Trader Joe's will be all over it. Go make your damn arugula. Because this is brutal. I'm Lynn Hoffman, and welcome to the Music Saved Me podcast, the podcast where we explore the power of music to heal and help anyone in need. On this episode, a brilliant songwriter, producer, and musician who has worked with an incredible, dare I say almost unbelievable roster of stars from just about every musical genre, ranging from Panic at the Disco, One Direction, Katie Perry, Billy Idol, Weezer, Blues Traveler, Macklemore, Train Ringo Starr. I could probably keep going, and then the podcast would be over, and he wouldn't even be able to talk. He's also a massive supporter of the incredible organization known as Musicians on Call, which we are as well. Welcome, Sam Hollander. Welcome to Music Saved Me. Hey, apology as in advance for any barking dogs or sneezing, but the pollen count. It's not working in my favor this hour, but I do believe in the potential of ZerTech, so let's go with it. And greatness, which you are. All right, well, let's just jump right in. Okay. Sam, do you believe music and songs have supernatural healing powers for those with mental, physical, or say emotional problems? Oh, absolutely. You know, I've always used music as a form of catharsis for myself, both my own art and also, you know, as a fan growing up. I mean, you know, as a child, I always felt misunderstood as we all do in those years. And so music was this sort of the soundtrack to the unrequited for me, right? So whatever was spiraling in my psyche, up and down and up and down, music was the one thing that elevated me. And, you know, I think one of the, what really attracts me to music as a songwriter, one thing that really dig is the notion that I can provide sort of uplifting, sort of aspirational stuff that I really write for myself because I'm just trying to stitch any broken mechanisms inside of myself, you know, but at the same time, I do think that if it reacts and I've, you know, maybe altered someone's day, the slightest bit, it's the greatest job in the world, you know? Absolutely. Is there a specific litmus test or, for example, when you're writing or producing a song and you're arranging the music, is there a place where you can tell that you're going to evoke a certain emotion in someone? Is that the secret sauce? Is there a secret sauce? Yeah, I think there's some sort of galvanic response that happens, right? The songs that I think, at least in my life, that have raised their hands and sort of done something and maybe actualized in any shape or form, I would say I always knew that there was something there. I don't think I've ever really been surprised and it's sort of hard to articulate what the special sauce is. You're just, there's a feeling in the room when the melody and the lyric sort of twists their way around a chord and it just hits and you feel that emotive moment. I remember I just saw this kid named Banners from London via Canada, or Canada via London, there we go. And, you know, he came to the studio and we wrote a song called, Someone to You. It was me, it was Michael, it was me, Michael and Grant Michael's Strange. But what was so interesting about it is I knew by the time we landed the chorus that the song was special. And it had the dextect against it. It was one of those songs, this was not going to be a layup. New Artist, No Real Backstory Today, blah, blah, blah. But there was something about it that just, you could just feel emotively that this was going to just, you know, elevate someone's daily experience. And that's what we do, you know? I don't write a lot of dark stuff because truthfully, the world is as complex and messy as it is. I don't think I need to be another voice sort of harping on that. I'd rather just try to, you know, put a little bit of positive energy out there. Even, I like the sweet and sour and sometimes I get my little jabs and my little, you know, I'm a Steely Dan guy, right? So I grew up listening to Donald Fagan with all the, yes, with all the, you know, the little jabs that he was able to work into songs that were jazzy, but yet the core were so dark and sort of interesting and funny. I like humor in my music, but at the same time, it's gotta, you know, I wanted to, at the end of the day, I wanted to, you know, stay somewhat aspirational or something to that effect. Well, you know, interesting, speaking of that, what would go through your mind during those moments when something that you were involved with so intimately to create impact someone in their life? In such a positive way or an emotional way? Well, when like people slide into my DMs, as the youth says, and they dip into my DMs, it's invariably a really beautiful note and it's very sweet and it's somebody who was affected and they sort of tell, you know, they give a narrative and they tell me how it affected them and it's incredible. Like, you know, there are many jobs that, you know, there are all these incredible jobs and vocations that bring tons of joy to people and it's just nice to know that music can be one of them. You know, the music can sort of affect their psyche in that way and, you know, so I'm always very moved to be honest with you. It's very, it's humbling and it's, you know, it just, it makes me wanna get up and write another one, you know? In what way do you feel that music gives people hope and have you ever personally used music to help yourself through a, say, difficult time? Lynn, I did, you see what I look like, right? So it was an uphill battle. A handsome guy. No, it was an uphill battle from birth and I will tell you, you know, in the 80s, you're a comedian too. In the 80s, in my formative years, I think I modeled my self-estor sort of a slightly more muscle bound version of John Crier's ducky, you know, and I had the pork pie hats and I had fedoras and I had all these things. And I was a strange character, you know, who was so lost. And I think if I were to find myself through four years of high school beyond, you know, academically challenged, I would say, you know, it was just one unrequited relationship after another and, you know, music got me through it. Like I said, music was the, it answered the questions. I felt like every lyricist before me sort of paved a path. And, you know, I would listen to the torture of Morrissey or Robert Smith or I would listen to, you know, the playfulness of Trob Coquester de la Soul. And R.E.M. was my favorite band of all and I didn't even know what he was saying. But it just, I liked the word play and it sounded interesting, but I would play almost, it was almost like Jenga lyrically, right? So, what's the one where you, Mad Libs, Mad Libs. It's almost like Mad Libs, right? Where I would take types of lyrics. I had no idea what he was saying. So I would just figure out and just guess and to me they were all torture. Bob Mould, Husker Dew was probably my favorite lyricist in high school, it was probably between Fagan and Mould. And I think both, they were great. They were great, they were great at chronicling the teen experience and sort of growing up and coming of age in cities and things like that. And, you know, it, so I would say, you know, that got me through. And I, whenever I meet somebody who was sort of, is so embedded in my mental playlist, I fanboy at such a level because I just can't believe that these people pay the way and I'm just lucky to have hitched on the bandwagon. It's awesome, it's the best. So what do you think the world would look like without music? I know that's a big question. What are the kids called them NPCs? You know, not like non-playing character, whatever it's like a video game term about being very basic. The world would be very basic. It's like, it's the color and it's the colorful characters. And, you know, look, music to me was the original short form content, right? It was just three minutes of perfection. I was never a Prague guy, right? Cause Prague came along and make these songs for 25 minutes long, you know? I don't want to do anything to do with this. Let's whack it down and make it, you know, two minutes and 40 seconds of joy. But I don't, I just, I can't envision it because it's been embedded in my DNA since I was three when I was listening to Blossom Deary records with my mom. She was a big Blossom Deary fan. And we would sit and listen to these like vocal jazz records. That was three or four and I just loved it. It was going on melodically, gateway to magic by pilot, you know, better known as the Ozympic song. No, it's obviously that's where people really, it's really caught on the magical single. But that was the first single I ever dug. And I grew up on all this K-Tel stuff. And then that morphed into all these genres. They're all, you know, I just can't imagine life without them. I mean, you know, the first thing I do when I get in the car is turn on serious. The first thing I do when, you know, or Z100 with my man at Maxwell, you look that shadow, my man Maxwell, he gave me a hug. He's a very sweet guy, very sweet fellow. I actually- When you were younger or older? Oh, no, like four days ago. I understood. Are you sure you're not also a comedian on the side? No, stop that. Is that a part of writing? Is that you have really good timing no matter what? It's not me, it's the decongestant. Oh, all right, that's right. It's the ZurTech. How did you first become associated with the fine folks at Musicians on Call? And if you wouldn't mind indulging us on what it was like witnessing firsthand, being involved with him. Well, it's funny, I go back to the early days of the organization because I was started by Vaik Tuari and Michael Solomon, who are people I've known socially since we were all in our 20s together, mid-20s. I remember when they launched. And it's a very kooky story. I loved their mission, I supported completely, but I wasn't necessarily involved boots on on the ground. And then when my father was in his last days, he was at Mount Sinai in the Cancer Ward. And I went to visit him one day and I heard an acoustic guitar in the next room. And I peeked around the corner and there was a man who was easily an octogenarian to put it mildly, strumming acoustic and he looked like one of these old Greenwich Village folk cats that you see in documentaries, you know. And he was playing for a woman who had to benign something. And when he finished, he walked down the hall and I said, you know, I'm so sorry to bother you, but what's your story? Are you related or whatever? And he said, no, he said, I'm with the charity Musicians on Call. And I had chills because I really felt that that moment had just been completely placed there from some weird divine spirit. It just didn't make it. It just was so one, it was a one in a million moment. So I instantly got involved and I got on the advisory board and I'm on the board of directors. And like, you know, we visited patients with my Christmas band, the band of Marymakers. And we performed at hospitals on both coasts. We wrote original songs with kids. And it's the heaviest work I've ever done. Nothing competes with it. It's a labor of love. And there, you know, when you talk about how music impacts people, it's the most powerful thing in the world. You can see it, it just manages stress and alleviating pain and improving blood pressure and all these, it's just scientific information. You just know it, it's true. Music, you know, is therapeutic. And so to play a role in that is, it's incredible. Absolutely incredible. I absolutely adore the organization and top to bottom also probably the nicest people I've ever worked with in A in capacity. If record labels had the energy of MOC, we'd be in a better world. So. That's, they are, they're, we love them. And we're so grateful that they're a part of our world. Because it just makes me feel like, although I can't do what you do, at least I can talk about it and spread the word. Look, Lynn, the truth is no one really needs to see me perform, right? It's like, my charm is behind a curtain. But if my words and, you know, we can sing Christmas songs and do things like that. And if I can help with awareness and I can get my friends to play a Christmas show, et cetera, it's really, I don't know. I feel like I'm doing the right thing. Yeah, you are. I'm paying something forward that, you know, I'm proud. It's great. Besides the fact learning that you were baby sat for a short amount of time by Andy Warhol, which obviously is a story for another time. I also read that your uncle was a famous American poet and literary critic named John Hollander. And I read that you once said that you didn't often connect with him when you were growing up. And it seemed strange to me because you would think writing would be hereditary and that everyone would just automatically know having an uncle like that. Did you ever connect with him? And if so, was music the connector eventually? No, it was Yankee baseball, but. Interesting. John was a, you know, I came from a very strange family. Pictures sort of the Royal Tannin' Bumps or something to that effect where, you know, my dad was an incredible modern dancer with Jose Lomón professional at 18 and then went back to school, architect with Phillip Johnson, did all this mid-century modern stuff and then a professor for the rest of his life. My mom working with Warhol and writing for Interview Magazine. She's the first and I believe only female sports writer ever for Interview Magazine because in the midst of some sort of psychotic breakdown, she said I want to write about sports and the psychology behind sports because I just don't get this. And I think Gandy was puzzled, but let her run with it. So that was neat. And, you know, every one of my family had a realer, we all had artistic bents of different sorts, you know. And, you know, with John, I mean, John was, you know, my parents were so heady, my uncle was so heady. And it was sometimes hard to connect with him because like I said, I was so massively ADHD in a time of the 80s when we didn't know what that was. So you were just deemed a colossal screw-up. And what happens with that, of course, it's a self-defeating prophecy, right? You start to believe, I become it, I manifested, you want to screw up, I'll be a screw-up. So I graduated the bottom of my high school, three colleges in two semesters, which I still believe is very hard to pull off. Yeah, that's a flex, you know. And I just, it was very hard to connect on any aesthetic level with these people who were just so beyond me at that age. But as time went on, I think, you know, I really, I think I earned some real respect in my family. And, you know, I think the number one thing was my tenacity. You know, I just, I wanted it so bad. I wanted to write songs that, that entered some semblance of a zeitgeist, right? I just wanted to hear a song in a movie or hear it in a stadium or hear it on the radio because I was completely raised on radios, you 100. So I just wanted to hear these, I wanted to hear these songs. And that was, I think, I think the one redeeming character trait that I have, because some stink, but one I would say is I'm really, I do put the work in and I'm very passionate about my art. And I think in my family, I think that's pretty respected. So it was neat. And didn't, did someone from the Eagles call him up and he needed to consult with you about it? Yeah, in the last years of my life, my uncle got an email from Don Henley and Don Henley had set one of his poems to music and they put it on the Hell Freezes Over record, I believe. Oh, that little record. Yeah, yeah. I, I, is that whatever, whatever the Walmart was in 2007. And, you know, the record did two, three million copies, whatever I had never, I was just about to have my first hit with the gym class heroes. And I'm finally like feeling like I've done it. And my uncle, who at that time was in his 80s, is on a bigger record and never, not a record before. So, you know, it's, it's, you know, I equate the music business with waking up every single morning, walking outside, picture you're on, you know, 7th Avenue South, any down time you walk outside of your building, you get hit by a cab every single day for 30 years. And every single day you have to wake up and dust yourself off and, and go create art. Because that's what it's like. Like, I just, you know, the fear I have when I wake up in the morning of just looking at emails for something falling through or something being rejected, et cetera. It's, it can really do a damage to morale. So I would say, I'm proudest of the fact that I can still get up every single day. And now, you know, I'm geriatric, but I still got it. Let's not go that far. We're born in the same year. Hey, yeah. 1989. 1989. Yeah. Well, you put together a book called, well, I love the title of your book, 21 Hit Wonder, Flapping My Way to the Top of the Charts, Adventures in Songwriting. Can you explain a little bit about what one would read when they opened the pages of the book? I can, I can. You know, I wrote this book because first of all, it was completing what I felt, at the beginning on the onset, I felt like I was completing my dad's journey. There was a part, there was a hole in his life where he, to me at least, which then I resolved towards the end of the book. But, you know, he began writing a book when I was seven and he never finished it. 40 years later, he passed. And he would just come back to it and then put it down. And, you know, it was, it was nothing that I could ever stitch together. And it gutted me to be absolutely honest with you. I was absolutely crushed because, you know, he was this brilliant man. And I felt like, I felt like the world never really got to know, you know, the extent of his genius. And so that's why I started because I felt for my daughter, you know, I have one kid and, you know, she's musical. And I felt, you know, she should really understand a little bit of the family backstory and also what hard work is and more appropriately what failure is because, you know, when you read the names of the people I've collaborated with or some of these songs, it's very moving for me, but it all happened after the age of 35. And up to 35, I'm bankrupting every label in the business within flop after flop after flop. And that gets lost. And what happens, what I've learned about entertainment, you know, it's funny, I come to you with Chuck D and great, great guy, public enemy. And Chuck D, you know, he knows more than anybody. The industry just buries carcasses of failure, right? We don't talk about these things, right? So whenever I read a puff piece and like Chuck, Chuck really reads entertainment books, which I thought was fascinating because I do too. And I've always felt like maybe I'm limiting myself, but, you know, there's nothing about, you know, 1870s, you know, Prague that I can get through. My ADHD is that severe, Len. So I have to get through these entertainment tomes. And one thing I'd say is they're all a humble brag. Every book I read is a humble brag. That tends to be like a couple of moments of duress and failure, maybe one, you overcame one thing. And then suddenly it's like, oh, it's a prize. And then well, let's spike the ball for the next 250 pages. And what I wanted to do was really harp on all these records that I made. I mean, the first six albums that I produced for artists didn't get released. One came out, the sixth came out in September of 2001. And then ended a career right there. But I ruined so many people's careers. And the truth is I really played a massive role in it in terms of just, and what I, I, I, I excavate these projects and talk about my role. It's not, I'm not blaming people or blaming the arts of the labels or anything. It's really, you know, judgment calls that I made and missed on. And that's what I wanted to write about, make it, just give people a little bit of a manual on how do you survive something where the deck is stacked against you every day of the week for decades. And that's what I did. And I just felt like, I felt like, you know, in this new generation of kids who are gonna have to compete with AI, which is gonna take such a chunk out of the marketplace. And, you know, and, and the fact that the democratization music, everybody has the tools to make their music. Everyone has a recording studio in their house. But think about that. When I was a kid, Neil Minsky lived in Pound Ridge and he had a four track and he was the coolest kid in the world. He had a four track. I'd never seen anything like it. Like no one had gear, you know. Now everybody can do it on their laptop. It's built in, garage band comes to the laptop, you know. These kids are working on logic at the age of eight, nine. So it's so competitive now. And then you have to hit the algorithm of TikTok and all these other things to even be heard. So we're in, these are truly crazy days. So the one thing is I just wanted to sort of give a little bit of a blueprint for anybody who's like me out there who is still struggling to figure out and just understand that it will happen, but you have to stick it out. And you really do have to put the work in. So true. And so lost today on just about everyone. So definitely welcome, welcome information. And if they're willing to put in the time to listen. But many artists I've interviewed through the years have said that they wrote the hit song that they really got well known for. They wrote for themselves, arranged for themselves, what they liked, what they wanted to hear. And then we're shocked to find that it actually resonated with so many people. Is that still something that happens today? Do you think? Well, truthfully, I'm shape shifting in every, with every artist that I collaborate with because I'm trying to avoid instilling my will on them. Instead, I'm trying my best to be a coach, a guide. Sherpa. I'm trying to get them over the top and work, yes. And work from there and just sort of try to figure out where they're at in the process. I work with some people who are incredibly lyrical. And so they don't need me in that end of it. And that's really my specialty is I'm pretty quick with a pen. But then, you know what? Then I instantly read the room and I shift over to where the melodies sit and making sure the melodies are working and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm making sure that it's conceptually tight. Other writers aren't particularly lyrical or I'm getting them on a day that they're just burnt out. They have nothing, but they want to give it a go. And I'm coming in the room with two or three completely finished, fleshed out ideas before I even sit down with them. And I sing them to the artist because, you know, I'm going to shoot my shot anyway I can. And that's landed some really successful songs too. There's no rhyme or reason to it. But the one thing I would say is these songs aren't written for me necessarily. There's inside jokes, sure. You know, Hi, Hope, Seneca Disco, you know, those verses are I wrote the verses on that song. And there's great co-writers on that song across the board. Everybody did a great job. But, you know, I wrote the verses and the verses in that song were in my head. I made a through line between a dialogue that I held with my mom when I was very young. And then the second verse is me sort of giving my same interpretation of that dialogue to my daughter or she was coming up. And so I tried to connect a generational divide because they never really got to know each other. My mom passed. My daughter was so young. So I thought this was a way to sort of, you know, bring them together forever. And that's why I wrote that. So it's pretty heavy for me. And even though you hear it in sort of like this bombastic sort of, you know, bouncy number at the core of it, I'd like to think there's a lot of heart because the message is very real. So, yeah. Well, I have to know what went through your mind when you weren't going to write necessarily a song with Ringo Starr, a beetle, but you were going to pitch being a co-writer with him. How does one even feel when they're ringing the doorbell at Ringo Starr's house and you have to go in and make a pitch that he's going to work with you? OK, so I would love to tell you that there was a high degree of intimidation. But the strangest attribute I have beyond tenacity is, and I think this is formed when I'm a kid with being around Warhol and these worlds and, you know, and spending my, you know, working with Carol King in my 20s who really mentored me and helped me out and now Rodgers and Paul Williams and all these people who are these incredible beacons for me and sort of just guided my journey. I'm rarely intimidated. And I think that's probably my greatest skill. It doesn't really matter who I walk in a room with, but I'm hard to shake. And I always say I'm sort of like something that crawls under your shower curtain. You try to wash it down, but it just doesn't happen. I sort of stick it out. So I would say with Ringo, I'm excited, sure, massively excited. Everything, you know, I mean, chills. But the flip side was very focused and he grilled me. He grilled me and he was tough and he's very snarky, very funny, so witty. He's an incredible guy. Was your heart beating out of your chest? Or you were fine. You were all right. No, I was okay. I was okay. I was more starstruck by you, Lynn. Oh, come on. So, you know, Ringo was so 2023. But I, no, I have to tell you, I had a very measured take on it. I was excited. But the flip side was I was really hyper focused on having a song with Ringo because I had done songs with Mike Glove and the Beach Boys sing them live. And I have to say, to be able to say I did something in the orbit of the Beach Boys and the Beatles. I'll take it. Yeah. You know, pretty cool. And so it was really about dialing it in. And, you know, since then I've done five songs of Ringo, something like that. And it's always a blast. And he is this this beautiful fellow who is in better physical shape than I am. And it's heartbreaking to watch because he's like bouncing up and down while I'm sort of slumped in the chair. Drilling. So, yeah, a little bit of work. But I'm a little bit of a viewer. Sir Tech. Sir Tech. Sir Tech. Viewler, viewer. Guys are the guys super talented. Well, spanning your successful career, which is pretty amazing, is there one kismet moment that stands out to you the most, working with someone? And if you could share what that is, I know you get that probably a lot. But in the song making process that you work with. I think the song that I it's the song that I have a weird, very, very, very deep emotional connection to is handclap by Fitz and the tantrums. And it's truly rooted in the fact of tenacity. You know, I was a huge fan of the EP when they first dropped their first EP. And I thought Money Grabber was the coolest thing ever. And, you know, I googled them. I googled Fitz and I realized we were born a couple months apart. And just like us, like our generational connection was so deep. And I could tell that he was referencing ABC when smoking things, like all these records of the time. And I felt like if I ever had a chance to get in a room with him, I would hit it out of the park. And it took seven years between meeting him the first time to finally getting a session. And I had to work angles. And I have to say my buddy Kevin Griffen, one of my best friends who's a better than Ezra, he made the connection. He's because Fitz sang on our band of Maramakers Christmas record. And I within five minutes with Fitz, I knew I was going to write a hit. I felt it. I felt like we would write something very special together because we just there was such a shared affinity. But yet there were slight there were just like divergent paths. Musically, that felt would be great. Like he's more of a pop guy, I would say, more of like a disco or soul guy. And so we met in the middle and fuse this strange song together. And it's a very strange song, but it's that one means the most to me because I really like I fought for it. And I don't know, for some reason, I think it just lives on more than the rest of my stuff. It feels like the one that I hear every day. And that's pretty cool. What are you most proud of, Sam, regarding your music and your legacy? I'm proudest of the fact that I was able to spend my life making noise. And there were so few other lanes for me as a human. And I didn't have any other interests. You know, I tell kids all the time, whenever I meet a kid, you know, it's, oh, how do I get into this business? But I say the same thing. It's like, look, if you ever wake up one morning and you have a strange fascination with, you know, arugula, and you think to yourself, God, I could market the world's greatest arugula. I could make a strain that's like hybrid arugula or something. And every Whole Foods and Trader Joe's will be all over it. Go make your damn arugula because this is brutal. And to do this with your life is there's a level of masochism that people could never understand. And so the fact that I survived thus far and I've been doing it this long and I am I still am excited every single day. I wake up and, you know, I'm like this weird, stunted man child. I'm like, you know, I just I every day I just wake up and there's an idea and it's sort of emanating. I'm trying to figure out how to get it out of my head. And it's a puzzle. And these are like these strange puzzles and I go for tons of walks in my town. People see me walking everywhere and I think it's a little bit of an odd visual. But, you know, truly I'm in my head all day long just trying to crack a puzzle and put it down on paper. And if it never sees the light of day, it's fine, but I have to get it out. And the fact that I was given the luxury to do this for this many years is incredible. What would you tell someone one piece of advice of all the great advice and sage wisdom that you've accumulated? I'll tell you. I was blessed. I'm sure you were too. I can hear in your voice. I was blessed with supportive parents, right? I had parents and an infrastructure around me of people who were cheering for me as a human. And I was encouraged to color outside the lines. And I just feel like a lot of people who pack it in early don't have that support system. And it can be as simple as finishing a song and playing it for your friends. And they diss it and or they just look away unenthused. And it's soul crushing, right? Or you play tell your parents you want to get it into the music, music entertainment industry and the look of horror on their faces because they don't understand how you won't be homeless. You know, the one thing I would say is if I could do it, anybody can do it. And I started out with minimal skills, like a creative kid with very suspect skills. And I put in the 10,000 hours, the Gladwell Lee and ours. And I just kept going and going and going and harnessing and changing and changing the way I approached my work and changing genres and trying to find out where I fit in the the musical landscape. And I believe anybody can do it. I just think you have to silence negative voices and just have a singular focus on the fact that you might just be great at something and you got to you got to play it through. So choose optimism that will that will get you through any most everything. Basically, yeah, it's like I don't want to sound like an up with people record, but it's it's just choose. I'm such a glass half empty person with everybody, but everything right? In terms of I'm watching the Knicks last night and I'm thinking to myself, there's zero way they win this game. I'm just exasperated. I'm about to turn the channel and they have one of the greatest comebacks I've ever seen. I've always been that guy. I'm very negative. I think it's like very Jewish self deprecating and just sort of having just self aware enough to know that the movie usually ends bad. The flip side is to suppress that with your art, with your art, believe that you can do it and you can. That I've never heard that spin that you just put on that. That was just amazing because I'm thinking to myself, where is this going? I mean, if he's negative, which I totally I mean, this is the plight of my daily routine. It's just, can you just see the positive side of it? I do. But with everything else, pure optimism, everything that you want to know and learn. It's like 100% optimistic. I mean, I'm just also another thing that's really important is stay in your generation. You know, I think about my mom, who was probably the sharpest cat I ever knew. Right. My mom was freakishly bright. But my mom had a fascination with Victorian era, you know, England. And I really think she wanted to live in Victorian era England. Interesting. And I think she was crestfallen that that wasn't going to happen. And she was very late to the Internet. Right. Yeah. She's very late to cell phones and all these things before she passed. You know, I've always I understood it and I got it. But the flip side was my tactic is I'm going to stay up on things and I want to be on top of it. I'm taking an A.I. class this summer just to understand how people think and how it's going to impact creativity, etc. Because I just I don't want to feel irrelevant. You know, I want to know that there are ways to implement tools and make great art and as it evolves. And I think A.I. in our lifetime outside of the Internet is the craziest thing we've ever encountered. I don't I think there are people who just don't understand what we're about to see. Yeah. And I'm sure there's a lot of negative with it, but there is some positive too. So just on that note, can I ask you one more question? Because I know I'm already overstaying my welcome. Of course. The Beatles, McCartney, putting out the new song with Lenin on it through the advances of A.I. How did you feel about that? Just curious. Once again, you know, I'm not a purist. I feel like, you know, I've heard a lot of songs recently of older artists who I feel like are using A.I. to, you know, come up with something new and sort of reinvigorated. I can kind of hear through it sometimes. And, you know what? If it brings people joy, who am I to? Who am I to rip it down? It's like, you know, I just I just think it's crazy that we have these, you know, these the abilities to do this and the the software I've been messing around with. It's insane. I enter in lyric prompts and very detailed lyric sheets. And what comes out might be better than my melodic writing. And it's scary, right? It eats me a little bit, but the flip side is, I'm like, well, that's pretty good. All right. So I can learn from it. Now, exactly. That was six seconds. It's great. So it's evolving at a speed of I've never seen anything like it, but that doesn't mean it's a negative to me. It just feels like, you know, utilize it as a strength. People were scared, you know, drummers were scared of drum machines. Well, you know what? People still record drummers. We've seen all of this and sure, this is crazier. And the capabilities are endless, but I don't know. Learn, learn from it. Don't hide. Good advice. Very good advice. Thanks, Sam. Thank you so much. Thank you. I seriously. And anything you need, I'm here, but hit me up. OK. Feel better. Thank you.
