Weaponized Silence - The UFO Disclosure Dilemma

When you want your family's staycation to feel like and you're confirmed connecting rooms to feel like and your hotel bed to feel like Oh and room service to feel like Choose Hilton because at Hilton hospitality feels like Good morning, enjoy your breakfast It matters where you stay Book now at Hilton.com Hilton, for the stay Coming up in this episode of Weaponized Anything at all, no matter what the phenomenon is is that in our most trusted institutions our governments in particular were willing to maintain a lie of this magnitude and gravity for 70 plus years I think that is going to freak the public out Coming up coming to you from Las Vegas joined by my friend and colleague Jeremy Corbell How you doing Jeremy? I'm good man, I'm looking forward to September I haven't talked to you in like what, a week, a month? That's right, I got you man You've been moonlighting, recording Weaponized without me What's the deal? Hey man, you didn't show up, you know Come on, don't put the blame on me Yeah, I got to talk with some friends and hear about a second Yeah, we have a fun episode coming up I always love talking to these three guys They're longtime friends of ours and we used to call them the young guns of ufology I'm not sure we can call them the young guns anymore Are they, that young? Younger than us Yeah, I don't know actually I think younger than us, you know Yeah, they're good friends It's always great to hear I haven't seen this episode yet The conversation you have with these guys but it's always great to hear additional input from people who've been around the topic for a long time I know they became the young guns That was the title given to them and a few other people Right after that December 2017 New York Times story came out and suddenly the buzz around UFOs really got hot and heated and they became really voices of reason and the whole discussion, still are You know, Joe Merge, better known as UFO Joe writes these big long intricate pieces on Twitter, on X Ryan Robbins, UFO Jesus Very thought provoking guy always kind of looks for the bright side of issues as you expect somebody named Jesus might be and then Danny Silva of the Silva Record we've been kicking around the idea of giving him a new nickname something with UFO in it Maybe we better not share the ideas we came up with I don't want to get Danny ticked off Yeah, man, they're great and it was cool to see I mean, it's kind of like a void of opinions in some ways on X and then they just came in leading the charge like knights really cool, they've sustained it since the 2017 era and I always like talking to them this was supposed to be just a conversation I was having with them and you're like oh, come on, if you're having the conversation just record it, I'll show up but then you were no show, George Couldn't be there that week and you know, it's they keep up with things that we don't keep up with they have your hands and tentacles in a lot of different groups they interact with people that you and I don't really know in the world, so they have a lot of input and observations of things that we're not privy to, so it's always great to talk to them, I can't wait to hear it Yeah, they keep you know, UFO Twitter, UFO X on lockdown and really the conversation was I wanted to see what their opinions were on the current news, you know, we had JD Vance talking about how in August he's going to study the UFO topic because he's obsessed with it that's the vice president, that's a cool thing for someone to say in some podcast now, the question for me is well, why doesn't he get a formal briefing there's very specific things that he could be briefed on you know, be a part of the White House that would give him you know, really good knowledge on this so I don't know if it was just a fanboy thing on the UFO topic or if he's taken it extremely seriously as far as getting briefings on it but in the same week you saw that Tulsi Gavir also talked about the UFO thing so you get these kind of big statements from people within government right now which shows a great interest which leads us perfectly to what we're told September, there's going to be another UFO hearing and I will say this, I have finalized all the nominations that I've made for that so it's not in my hands and I wouldn't like their job but they have to sort through everybody you and I gave them and see you know, who would be best to testify and also who can testify about certain things and that's something that I think we'll learn more about as we get closer to the hearing Yeah, it's not as cut and dried as people might think just spill the beans, you're perfectly safe and we will be learning more about that I know that you are very active in working with the committee staffers to figure out who could testify and I'm privy to some of that and I've been in on a couple of conversations but not as much as you so I hope they appreciate what you're trying to do for them because it takes a lot of your time I know Oh yes, full time job where these things go and sometimes there's not a lot of reward as we saw with the last hearing so you know, it's just like it is what it is man I'm trying to push the ball forward and get people who will say yes to talk and then the question is how much can they talk about and what impact will it have and I don't know, we're just going to get the best people forward we can and go from there I want to have one more note before we jump into the conversation you had with the young guns and that's about our friend Bryce Zabel so Bryce is a good guy a friend, a colleague, a trusted confidant, we talk to him all the time he's had this great podcast going for a while called Need to Know and they're often on the same page as we are, we've had them on our podcast and with Bryce with Ross Coltart but I guess Ross has left the show and as of 24 hours ago Bryce debuted his new co-host and as somebody we know really well Yeah, absolutely, Rich Dolan I was stoked to see that, I tuned in to see like who's his new co-host they played it well, they wouldn't tell you before and it was so cool to see that it was Rich Dolan, there's not many people probably other than you and a couple other people that have such a depth of knowledge of the history of where we've been with the UFO topic so Rich having his own show has been really cool but to bounce off stuff with Bryce who's also extremely knowledgeable about the topic, yeah I'm going to be watching the show. Yeah well those two guys have history too, they wrote a book about AD after disclosure that was really clever, smart well informed and timely even now I think they came out like 10 years ago and they've done some shows together before so it's a good fit, I hope people will check it out, I know I've started the first episode, haven't finished it yet but it really looks good, anyway let's move on so you wrangled three friends of ours, the young guns of ufology and they're having a conversation with you when they're trying to relax at home and it probably went on for 9 or 10 hours but did you enjoy the conversation and do you want to kick it to the recording? Yeah yeah we'll move to the recording, it was really cool it's just like catching up with three friends who've been in the trenches some longer than 2017 but it's always cool to hear the word on the wash what's going on in UFO X land because I miss a lot of it, so here's the episode talking with our friends the young guns of ufology alright welcome to weaponized we do not have the G-Man George Knapp today but I do have three really really good friends of mine who have been attacking this topic relentlessly for a very long time now but each in a unique way, I think our audience knows you guys and so Danny, Ryan, Joe how are each of you doing in that order? I'm good, I'm not speaking much I'm on your social media and I'm just kind of taking a step back listening to you guys and I'm still tracking everything as much as possible I just haven't felt the need to speak up because I like not arguing on social media it's fun for me so it's just as easy to track it and not always give an opinion but I'm still here and I'm watching the great work you and George are doing and all the great contributions that Jill and Ryan are doing on social media and other places and I'm just kind of waiting to see and following the developments nice man social media is a battleground for this stuff and I know I've been watching recently Ryan has had some really cool drops, some video drops so Ryan how you doing man? I'm doing good just trying to stay up to date with all the news I feel like huge UFO news is dropping every other day it's kind of crazy and I'm trying to catch up on some of the stuff I missed in the past few months as well nice I want to ask you what some of the huge news is but in the meantime Joe, UFO Joe, what's shaking them? Same issue it's like Sunday I'm like alright no UFO Twitter today I'm gonna just stay off and I wound up staying on for 8 hours it's like something everything kept happening it's like we got a new Burrelson interview we got a new rounds interview we got this we got that so yeah it's good it's just it's hard to keep up with everything yeah it's a different time right we have so much breaking constantly now and that is not the way that it was been over the last decade and now with the social media you can engage each and every little thing you find out about it faster than any of the congress people at times so you guys have mentioned some big things maybe Ryan you mentioned it first what are some of the bigger things you've seen happen and what do they mean for us at this time in the UFO space well a few days ago for an example Vice President J.D. Vance said in a podcast that he's obsessed with the UFO issue and he wants to get to the bottom of it I thought that was pretty big in fact technically as a fact I don't think a vice president has ever broached UFOs a sitting vice president has ever broached UFOs that way and I think that is an indicator of where we are with this topic because like if something like that would have happened prior to December 16th 2017 we would all be overwhelmed and we wouldn't believe what we're seeing but it's like another Tuesday now and stuff like that is happening all the time but you know I think George Knapp is kind of rubbing off on me though because you know he's very pessimistic about transparency and you know when Trump came into office in the beginning I was like okay you know we got Marco Rubio and Secretary of State we got John Ratcliffe he's the director of the CIA they've both been huge advocates for UFO transparency let's see where this goes and like six months later the Trump administration really isn't doing anything so I'll believe it when I see it like I'm very optimistic about disclosure because disclosure doesn't just come from the government it can come from science it could come from open contact it could come from a leak to you you Jeremy and George you know it literally could but I'm not sold on the Trump administration you know maybe I'm not being fair because it's only been six months but I've kind of lost my patience but I'm still very optimistic about disclosure because as Richard Dolan has said many times you know disclosure is impossible but it's also inevitable so I'm kind of watching the inevitable part. Right so that is a big deal I mean just to have a vice president come out and say I am obsessed with the UFO thing I'm going to take August and really look into it I don't know if that's an official thing or him just like talking to people we already know or watching a bunch of podcasts but it is encouraging and that would be news alone now that's shown us that in our environment people can talk about this much more openly it's not ridiculed at all when he said he's obsessed with the topic UFO Joe what do you did you have an impression on that? Yeah and I tagged him I said give me a call DM me vice president and right away people get mad at me because you have the political divide of course but yeah it's really good to see and Trump I mean we could segue into Trump what can Trump do in the last six months nothing has been really done but and I will go against what I said in the past when when congressman Tim Burchett came out and said we don't need the UAP disclosure act we just need a one page thing just get it declassified and I kind of made fun of that I'm like it's not going to be that easy but after seeing what Trump did with JFK MLK and RFK signing in an executive order if he did that with UFOs that would help push the ball down the field we wouldn't even have we wouldn't have not we would not have to wait for the UAP disclosure act to be passed if it gets passed and right after the UAP right after he signed that executive order Senator Schumer tweeted now do UFOs and we're all like yeah do it just do it because if he did it even without the UAP disclosure act I think we would get some documents some files I don't know how hard I'm sure they would still fight it the various agencies that have records but it would be nice to see what would happen if he did that yeah it seems like we're all warning some sort of official acknowledgement beyond what we already have about the UFO reality and I don't know how far we want it like how much we want that will give that will kind of satisfy us because more and more as we go along it's everything is less and less satisfying everybody's feeling like just show me the goods tell me the truth Danny do you have any impressions on vice president talking about UAP I'm Mr. Skeptical and I'm always a pessimistic on things I've become that way over the years and it's just hard to know I mean it's not a Republican or Democrat thing politicians in general they're hard to trust them when they say something is it just lip service you know it kind of came off to me as vice president advance you know I'm worried that he's just saying it and it's lip service and it's meaningless and that's just kind of my view on everything that's said now but I have to always remember when I started in 2017 like Ryan was saying this was all amazing stuff like and now we're just kind of like callous to the situation like this would have been so huge you know seven years ago and now I almost don't even care that much about it because I think always is saying that and you know but I hope something comes of it I always have that in the back of my mind but I feel that way a lot of even with the UAPDA or other things like that I'm hopeful you know I wanted to work first I wanted to be passed but will it even work if it gets passed we've just been let down so many times for some of the people I'm sure a lot of people that are listening know about that when you say UAPDA or the Disclosure Act but let me ask Ryan first do you have an opinion on this it's the third time they're trying to implement this and and Senate's passed it through and they're gonna have to have a vote in the house and there's a lot of kind of split opinions about this like is it a good thing is it not a good thing do you have any opinions on this have you been tracking it a lot I've been tracking it to some extent I mean I think it's it's absolutely a good thing legislating UFO transparency is obviously a good thing the question is will it work and a better question is will it even get passed I know there's been opposition to it I think Mike Turner was one of the people that was opposed to it I don't think he is influential at this point in where we are right now I know that Chuck Schumer and Senator Rounds have reintroduced it and they've spoken about it Rounds recently was in the media and he was talking about he was even he was even going into transmedium travel and talking about whistleblowers that have spoken to him directly I think now that just came into my mind we need more hearings I think the more hearings we get the harder it is for the public to accept that the UAP disclosure act is not getting passed and the more exposure these hearings get the harder it's going to be for the public to be like okay there's all these people coming forward they have nothing to gain they're losing their jobs they're being harassed for coming forward so they're saying one thing the government saying another thing why not just pass the UAP disclosure act what is there to hide if people in the government know that there's nothing to see here and there's no enigma I don't understand the constant reluctance these long held multi-decked rumors have been around for a very long time and they're not going away but the closest we could get in my opinion to falsifying the UFO issue is to get to UAP disclosure act with the UAP records review board powers of subpoena right throw the entire kitchen sink at getting to the bottom of this obviously like Aero that's BS because Aero is like the Pentagon investigating the Pentagon that's not going to work it's like drug dealers investigating their policy that's not going to work so we need the UAP disclosure act which is kind of external external investigation Congress getting involved so to me the fact that we struggle getting the UAP disclosure act makes me paranoid as someone who follows this topic and I think it should make every American paranoid it's like and how much does this all cost isn't it like budget dust and what do they pay on this like a single like aircraft compared to what it's going to cost to implement the UAP disclosure act a B2 bomber versus the UAP disclosure act I don't know it seems like these conspiracies are not healthy if they're not true then just put an end to it get the UAP disclosure act passed and you know I'm going to be very weirded out if we don't get the UAP disclosure act passed this time around I'm not going to understand it how can you have constant hearings and new UFO whistleblowers coming forward they're not even just you know they're not even like testifying under oath in the public exclusively they're also going to members of Congress and testifying the Congress so there's just like this bizarre scenario going on so I do expect the UAP disclosure act to pass because I mean I think like I think the government's kind of in a hard spot if it doesn't pass and yet this topic doesn't go away what is their excuse going to be and how are they going to keep coming up is it going to be like 10 years from now and new senators are trying to get some kind of UAP disclosure act passed and then just like people are opposing it just makes no sense to me that's really all I have to say hey there weaponized listeners when I put on the right clothing it feels like armor a thoughtfully built wardrobe comes down to pieces that mix well and last that's where quince shines premium fabrics considered design and everyday essentials that feel effortless to wear and 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love it and you will now available in Canada too don't keep settling for clothes that don't last go to qince dot com slash weaponized for free shipping and 365 day returns quince dot com slash weaponized see you on the next episode so for three years since they first introduced it about three years and we were all like you know we know it's not the be all end all but we're hoping if it gets past we're going to finally get to see some data that we have not seen before and then rounds was being interviewed on the south Dakota ABC affiliate and he's he's asked he goes and even David Grush said at Seoul two years ago he's like guys if this doesn't pass it's going to be really bad I'm paraphrasing so rounds is asked if the UAP disclosure act passes do you think the public will get to see more data and rounds goes I would hope so I'm like that's not the answer we want to hear I would hope so it's like if he's I mean if he's skeptical that we're going to get data how am I supposed to feel so that was really that was disappointing I did not expect him to be that and I know he's really conservative but still disappointing I think he's also experienced the curial nature of looking into the UAP topic we had a really good interaction when I was at the last congressional hearing afterwards and he said it's really hard to get straight answers on this topic so I think there's a sense of frustration too he's high up on the food chain and he's getting denied access and understanding himself so he's probably saying I hope the public will learn more because it's probably been hard for him to get in through certain doors even with the role that he holds you know what in your opinion Joe or Danny or any you what is it going to do like that's the question I'm coming to so we need something to happen so we're going to have hearings and that's not for UFO land those hearings are for mass public I've been fighting to get them public open hearings rather than just facilitating people to tell behind closed doors which happens way more often than the actual hearings we want the public to hear what's going on some of it you know eventually we're going to be like well I knew that you know as a UFO fanatic you know I knew that but general public bringing that level of awareness up I think it does help and it does help with getting things like the UAP DA forward but what happens if it passes that's what I'm unclear on what actually happens if it passes do any of you know I mean I know what it says that the information they're going to ask the agencies to give your information to the UFO review board and then those people are going to look at it and decide if this gets declassified or this does not get declassified and then it gets to the president and he has final say and then if he approves it then we get to see data records that's I think that's the basics of what we're going to get from the UAP disclosure act the question is will the agencies give up their data you know and how do you know if they're not giving up their data if it's hidden somewhere you don't know unless you have people telling you specifically where that data is and what it implies and you have specific places to go and get information which I do know that they have specific detailed instruction of where some of this information and hardware is and that was given to them a long time ago but it does just seem like a lot of these you know transparency groups are running around trying to hit the head against the wall I don't know what's going to do it but I know we got to take these steps I know we got to have hearings we got to fight for the UAPDA to pass to try to get more transparency on it but it's just an uphill battle George said I think the last episode we were on you know no matter how pessimistic and discouraged and frustrated I am we never could quit and George said something along those lines and I thought that was really not only I mean it's obvious but it's important and so I try to keep that in the back of my head another big story that happened that maybe wasn't a broadcast is you Jeremy drop in the locations oh yeah I thought that of the hardware yeah so I was kind of creating breadcrumbs out there because I was really annoyed that day which is that there are people that said well where do we look and I'm like there's a whole legacy program that came from Lockheed and Burbank and when that was you know closed down that was transferred so I was trying to push people on the inside to go look at Plan 42 that's one of the places that on the inside everybody has openly talked about holds some of this hardware it's like not hard to find out where you're supposed to go look not that they're going to be shown anything when they go look but that was something that Senator round said well where would I go look exactly I would plan for the yeah exactly that I mean direct and it's that's what we need he has he must know that those those I would hope he would know that those locations had been mentioned before for him to say where would I who would I ask I don't know who to ask I'm like you're kidding me so it's a little disingenuous to me that he's saying that once again I don't know that for sure but I would think he knows even if it's old information like he said you can get new information talk to people you know I guess he has a lot of things that he does in his current role and one of the benefits of passing the UAPDA would be that it would be designated you know that people would focus on this because right now I can't imagine all the things he has to deal with I'm actually impressed the Schumer has been pushing this app because just how many other things they have to deal with so I think the dedicated group that would be kind of you know created by the UAPDA is really where the hope lies you know whoever is in that position they could focus on this topic right yeah I sometimes I'm too hard on them realizing there's a lot more to their jobs than you know so yeah I I appreciate that I still get frustrated but I appreciate they have a lot to do yeah what do you think Ryan representative Burleson and a lot of what he's been saying on podcast and everything over the last months I absolutely love what representative Burleson has been doing he has been so clear and repetitive about the need for transparency and that the public has a right to know the truth and I honestly and you know maybe I'm biased but I would love if more of representatives would do this senators and people in office would do this because I do think it pressures the US government to be transparent I mean out of mind out of sight out of mind and he's just like he's hammering it home he's reminding the public that this is important and we have a right to know I absolutely love what Burleson is doing and he just doesn't shut up about it and I hope he continues not to shut up about it yeah he's got a lot of spirit and a lot of hope you know when he's going into it he doesn't always get it right you know UFO land as you guys know it's a briar patch and it's really hard to get a foundation sometimes I imagine for someone like him probably hasn't been into this for a super long time it's got to be also pretty fun I mean here's a guy who's limited time in congress and he gets to run around and check out these like Naska mummies and check out you know talk with a bunch of people I'm not saying all these things have the highest value system but I'm saying it's got to be kind of fun for someone like him it's got to be kind of pumped you know to be able to do this yeah I mean and if we ever do get disclosure like all those sound bites are going to be pretty pretty out in the open it's like I wish more representatives had a bigger egos and did the calculus that hey let me say something big about it because if we ever do get disclosure like these sound bites will probably ripple out for for history one of the things he said was he said there are witnesses they're looking for the next hearing he goes we're looking for first-hand witnesses to non people who have said they've had contact or interaction with non-human intelligence he said there are people that have gone on news shows but they will not testify in front of congress and I'm thinking the only three I could think of Jake Barber from Skywatcher claims he picked up a craft multiple craft or at least one craft who has talked about seeing non-human not bodies because I've got on people for saying that non-human what did he say? he said non-human craft and non-human what did he say again? beings so non-human beings and the other one is our favorite Dr. James Lekatsky who you and George one of my most enjoyable interviews because you asked him would you testify and would it take a subpoena he's like let's cross that bridge when we come to it I think he would I just think they need to subpoena him I can't think of anybody else who has gone on shows who has claimed first-hand knowledge either seeing a craft or beings I can't think of anybody else who would you know fit that category I don't know if you guys can come up with any other people well I notice he said on national news and only one out of those three have gone on national news so that would limit that pool to my guess of who he's talking about now I'm not sure did Jake Barber not testify I don't think he has been officially asked in my knowledge I'm working closely with the teams doing that you know nominating people bringing them in and look it is difficult for people to say yes to that because sometimes they're limited in what they can say because on one side you have these special access programs that are national security issue and they don't want to you know they're not going there to fuck up the government or the United States of America they're going there to tell what they can about the UAP topic so there's sometimes there's a limiting factor of what witnesses and whistleblowers can say under their own moral code or what they've been told is is okay to talk about and what is not okay I know that's frustrating but that is the truth that is that those are conversations that are happening right now is how far can I go without damaging national security because if you can't say it it's going to do no good to anybody right so if you're doing a public hearing you don't want a bunch of those let me answer that behind closed-door situations right so trying to get people up there that can give the most robust description of what it is that they've had you know close interaction with that's the goal and sometimes that's limited by how much someone can say but you know we're everybody that I know is doing their best to wire that perfectly so you can hear the most from the best people but you know I'm not in charge of the decisions I can just nominate bring people in you know so maybe that so you know there was a really interesting part of the Matthew Brown interview that you and George did that really caught my eye Matthew Brown was saying that he went to organizations as I recall that are geared to help whistleblowers and he reports that they did not help him even though that's what they're designed to do and he I think he might even suggested you correct me if I'm wrong that there might be some intelligence community ties to those organizations and I'm just thinking like what is going on here why why don't it look I'm not denigrating any organization I have no idea I'm just going off with Matthew Brown said but like why are they not if they are not organizations out there to assist whistleblowers however they can because these whistleblowers that they're paying such a huge price not only me not only are they putting their life in the on the line potentially but they're losing their jobs they're losing their pension they're losing their careers like okay you know everyone says they want disclosure maybe we need to help these people more and I don't know what the answer is but if if the organizations geared to helping these whistleblowers are not helping them as I think Matthew Brown was conveying then we have a serious problem yeah I suspect that is something that you know I do suspect that at the right time Matthew Brown will will talk more for himself I encourage him to do he should start a sub stack and just start interacting with people he doesn't have a job that he can just jump back into his life has dramatically changed I think people should hear firsthand what that's like I know that he did seek help he did seek help from these whistleblower groups will just say and he did not get it and in fact he had opposite type of experience but I think he needs to talk for himself on that you know who did he go to what non-help did he get what what does he think about that and is there a better way because the truth is from the people that I directly have been speaking with for years numerous people who are thinking about coming forward or are actually coming forward for the next hearing that you don't know which is going to be cool if it all works out the problem is they are alone they're on this kind of island right where it's easy to threaten them their faces are not public a lot of them have perceived threats or I'll just say direct threats to them to shut the fuck up and to not break from the fold if that is true and I do believe it is true we're talking like police reports and shit that prove that these odd things have happened to people then we have a real problem on our hands then we have less motivation from people who haven't quite poked their head above the parapet yet to really come forward because they see how and what is happening to other people who have come forward so Matthew Brown is there what is your support for someone like that what does support look like is it you know here's money for your rent or here's a job that you could will help you get because we understand your situation think about David Grush he's probably in history the first or only that I know of whistleblower who is officially acted as a whistleblower from the United States government who got a job back in government to oversee some of to help advise for this upcoming hearing that's huge that shows that we are treating whistleblowers with more respect that shows that we are trying to help people fall more on their feet after doing that so for me that was a huge thing that Burleson's office hired him as an advisor he's the best advisor on planet earth about all this stuff because he basically wrote the book on whistleblowing that he gave to the ICIG right so I don't know I'm just I guess doubling down on your point Ryan it's hard for me to see it's hard for me to see these people that I've learned to care about go through all these personal dramas because they don't know the path forward and there seems to be no safety net for them and I don't know where that puts them how about you Joe what are you thinking I'm thinking last night I was thinking and I don't know how this would work but we need some sort of community funded go fund me for whistleblowers how much could we raise so we can say hey you've been through a lot here's $30,000 to get you and your family through this year I don't know half a million dollars I mean yeah half a million a million for ten whistleblowers just to take care of them if they go through that that's an idea I had I don't know how that would work we've had Michael Herrera who claims he saw an octone craft on the ground I think hovering in Indonesia he said he's telling the people he knows with potential witnesses slash whistleblowers to not come forward because he's like look at what it has done to other people in their lives like you guys are talking about so that's disappointing but I understand it I understand if I can't put myself I'm not really in their shoes but I can imagine you're working all of a sudden you can't work anymore you can't pay you can't pay your bills you can't take care of your family so it's understandable so yeah I don't know how we get past that right now that Herrera thing was weird to me by the way I don't know he said I've been trying to testify for so long was he just upset that he didn't get asked to testify and then says well I'm not doing it no one else should I really don't know I don't know the guy and I don't know much about his case but that was an odd thing I think for a lot of people coming forward because right now they feel being anonymous has what has allowed all of these these threatening and negative things these reprisals to come at them for them for people to say don't you even think about stepping forward you know and that has happened a ton so I think for a lot of people taking that step forward putting their face out there's the last shot they got at living a normal ish life well let's hope they're listening to you and no offense to Michael hopefully they still come forward I mean you obviously have your ear to the ground you know what's going on with witnesses yeah people are coming forward it's just a matter of if they're selected to come forward publicly or if some of what they're coming forward with is described as more of a national security issue that needs to be kept behind closed doors which sucks but I don't make that decision I can just bring people forward and then hopefully they can tell as much as they can are you able to say like when they're like listen you can't talk about that is that almost always propulsion related or are there other issues no it's propulsion related and program name related and because you know you look at something close so look none of this UFO stuff exists we're not reverse engineering anything except for the fact I've been in the meetings where they're like that is a no go place because that is a strategic advantage if you're talking about you know reverse engineering propulsion systems and we're doing it and that's part of what you're here to talk about you should probably just let us do it that's kind of the sentiment you get from real patriotic people and I totally understand that but I think what we're all fighting for is we don't have to tell people like again how to build a nuclear barn but we can admit that there's a nuclear program and nuclear physics and I think that's the biggest thing if I look at what disclosure looks like it's just an acknowledgement of the basic facts that there are craft of unknown origin likely to be non-human and then you pick what that means or where they're from extra whatever right? that acknowledgement itself just flat out I think is for me disclosure as soon as we get that then I'm going to feel like we've crossed the Rubicon but I would like to ask each of you what does that look like for you what is the best dream scenario in your mind right now what is disclosure to you what happens five years from now if everything goes right I'll just jump in and say disclosure is the acknowledgement that we're not alone adding to what you said Jeremy regarding like nuclear physics and I know that um David Grush spoke about this when he was interviewed by Ross Colthard he's like you can study you can go to university and study nuclear physics but you're not going to learn the designs to like a nuclear ICBM right? or anything like that so it is integrated into society even though simultaneously you know you have the department of energy where some of the biggest secrets the US government has is how does nuclear power work how does nuclear detonations work and so you can have it both ways you can study UAP and maintain classification on the stuff that's dangerous for society and former rare admiral Tim Gallaudet you just recently sent a letter to the science advisor to President Trump his name is Michael Cratios I'm Michael Cratios and he was outlining exactly what you were just saying why is this not a national priority it's so insane so to me disclosure you first have to acknowledge that we're not alone and then everything else will take care of itself once the world learns we're not alone you don't need to persuade scientists to pursue this they're going to be frothing at the mouth as will everybody else so it's like it's mind blowing that we live in an infrastructure of reality where there are so many interests from so many different disparate places all aligning with the goal of keeping it secret and you know that's when I have sympathy for skeptics you know I don't agree with skeptics but when you look at it in that lens it seems implausible there's how many nations have smoking gun evidence of UAP right yes the US allegedly has craft retrieval programs I think it's likely but then China has them Russia has them the five eyes are already on this and talk about it it's like it's so universal and yet all 8 billion of us are walking around completely oblivious so yeah disclosure is just acknowledgement we're not alone you don't have to do one other thing you don't have to start an organization you don't have to persuade anybody of anything once that we know we're not alone everybody from every field is going to be frothing at the mouth and it will be go time and that's it it's over Danny? I think about what I would think of disclosure but then also what would work for disclosure because where we are now in today's world there's a lot of wild things that are said and a lot of people are really controversial like President Trump is extremely controversial I mean we've had high level politicians not the president basically saying that they believe in the UFO subject and that it's real and the public generally has kind of brushed it off so I'm just wondering even if President Trump acknowledged it would it be kind of accepted so I would like my best case scenario would be they need to show some kind of proof also along with it you know everyone's always talking about wheel out of craft or body or something along those lines so that would definitely be my best scenario that it's not just words it's something more official and I think it does change from maybe politician to politician but really conspiracy driven and that could be a good thing or a bad thing but we need really something tangible especially if when there's so many people in the world that only believe something from someone they like and if it comes from the other side of the aisle they're automatically not going to believe it or think it's fake or they're doing it for whatever reason so we're just so divided and we need something tangible is my answer what about you Joe I think first we would need for me multiple first-hand witnesses who come out and say listen we spent the last four years together this team working on a craft that we have concluded is of non-human origin and this is why we believe that and then another group comes in and talks about the bodies and why they believe they're non-human in nature and then the next day ladies and gentlemen come back to hangar 57 we're going to show you a craft and the bodies are going to be there on display you can ask whatever questions you want that's like my dream scenario and then the day after we go to Lockheed we check out their tic-tac you're right we should talk about that we should talk about that but yeah no that's also I hear what you guys are saying and I feel the same way which is that you can have people talk about it but you have to have something to show for it that's a smoking gun that goes without saying right and the thing is is that I wonder if there are there's a lot of politics behind that right we know we live in a super secure secrecy state when it comes to exotic repulsion we know that these are special access programs that contain and work on anything that's advanced tech to begin with so you'd really have to get some sort of fundamental shift within our power structure to say it is beneficial to us to tell the world about this right and it's beneficial to us to show not only our friends but our enemies too what we got because that's what you would end up doing if you really let people in to see the craft and that sort of thing so you'd need some sort of monumental shift within the power structure to even decide that's a good idea because right now it's not like me I have a craft in my backyard or something and I can just bring that out we're talking about if this is all true you know retrievals at the highest level of secrecy within our government so what is going to push that button to get that type of transparency to the American and then you can't help it the global public that I don't know that's like a major paradigm shift within the way that this has been treated and maybe covered up for a long time it would it would change everything everything would be like how would the world handle it and I know people are like the world can handle it well I don't as as Chris Mellon I love this quote from Mellon and he may have changed his mind since then but in 2015 he said John Podesta says the American people can handle the truth and Mellon goes how can you know if they can handle the truth until you know what it is he goes what if they're flesh eating arachnids this kind of doesn't make any sense so yeah what's like what's it going to take to get that to happen to bring out craft and bodies would it be enough if a dozen first-hand folks came forward I don't know it's like as George always says the more the closer we get the harder it becomes and those people who are in charge of keeping this secret I got to give them credit they've done a really good job Dave and it sucks what they've done to whistleblowers but it's really working so far we have not heard and hopefully the three people you talk about I don't know if you can tell us anything more about those people who may testify in September the people you talked about who have first-hand knowledge no no I think everybody should see if they're going to testify and it's more than three by the way that I've officially brought in so let's see who's going to testify and if they don't I think they're already coming public they've already recorded me and George anyway so there will be a report on their own time but right now let's try to use the system and do it right the government said they're going to help let's let them help I want to push back a little bit to what Chris Mellon stated I remember him saying this and you know Mellon is an absolute awesome disclosure advocate so you know I support him hugely but I don't think it matters what it is and I'll tell you why because a lot of people probably won't agree with me on this but I think what's going to disturb the public is that they're not going to be being at all no matter what the phenomenon is is that our most trusted institutions our governments in particular we're willing to maintain a lie of this magnitude in gravity for 70 plus years I think that is going to freak the public out and I think those in power know that they're going to be all clean because they're just covering their ass they know there's going to be all hell to pay once they go once we get the truth you know you know we have religious people in our world all kinds of religions they believe in God they believe in Satan they believe in angels we already like we already believe in weird stuff you know you know in in fairness you know knowing for certainty is different than belief I think Carl Nell pointed this out during a soul interview that it's one thing to believe and it's one thing to know so that's a fairer buttle but I still maintain my perspective that disclosure is going to freak people out first and foremost because because like think about it's not going to just be us you know standing around the water cooler talking about it it's going to be our smartest most influential minds losing their you know what Neil deGrasse Tyson and and people like that scientists engineers philosophers like they're all going to lose their you know what and they're going to you know they're going to look like me they're going to be ranting in front of the camera on CNN on Fox News and MSNBC and so they're going to be like this huge signal and then the rest of the world is going to be going to receive that signal because let's be honest our intellectuals influence how we perceive reality that's just the way it is that's why the skeptics for so long have gotten the red carpet on CNN Fox News look at the recent Wall Street Journal article like the news agencies for the longest time they love giving credibility to the skeptics and their viewpoint and then when it flips all these brilliant minds are going to go on all these news stations are going to write op-eds there's going to be in the newspaper and they're just going to say this was not only completely immoral and incomprehensible and unthinkable but it was tragic and then what does that do that's a signal that the rest of civilization is going to receive and we're going to feel that and we're going to integrate that and who's going to take the fall who is going to take the fall it's going to be governments governments are going to take the fall and that's what's going to freak people out not because there's flying saucers because the bottom line is yeah there's flying saucers and there's probably abductions but that's been happening forever so what it's happening right now does it change the equation does learning about it actually change what is happening in the world no it doesn't but learning that your government's been lying to you something you couldn't even conceive was a possibility something that you're supposed to understand not not human intelligence which is esoteric and otherworldly but like there's so many people who don't even believe governments would be willing to lie on this level or that they're capable of lying on this level and what happens when all a billion of us learn that governments were willing to lie on this level and are also capable of lying on this level I think that is what's going to be more disruptive than learning about the phenomenon but that's just my opinion and the next question would be okay what else have you lied to us about and that's that's always been people like why do you want disclosure because for me one of the most important things that I talk about is human beings have a have abilities that we've been told we don't have like PSI so if if it was proven that UFOs are real we have a non human intelligence here it's a lot easier to say hey now that your mind is open and you realize you've been lied to all these years these are some other things which we have evidence for that you should really take a look at as far as whether or not people I agree I mean people are going to be upset and the people George said I don't know I was like six seven years ago he goes people are going to go to jail people are going to go to prison for some of what they did whether it's murder or or hiding funds from the American people billions of dollars so yeah and as far as how they'll react to abductions or as George says they can see us anytime without us seeing them they could see you in the bathroom they could see you in the shower I don't know how people react to that for us we'll be like it's pretty cool but like Ryan said belief is and Nell said belief is a little different knowing is a little a lot different than belief so I don't know but at the same but at the same time disclosure doesn't have to reveal everything that those details about seeing us all the time and abductions like we have a long time to start meandering into those topics disclosure is exclusively going to be oh there's a presence here it's non-human intelligence and we don't know much you know our government's actually going to like start broaching abductions and the other stuff I don't think so but it's the first question it's the first question out of a report yeah and what are they going to say they're going to say we don't know and then they're going to turn to people in the community and they're going to say you know what they'll leave it right they'll leave it to the community there's evidence that abductions are real whether or not physical or not and so yeah it would be let's let's hope we get to find out in our lifetimes I'm skeptical that we'll get there but who knows I mean in a way you know we've already had a level of disclosure when you have people you know top people saying there are craft they seem to be operating in a different world of physics than we're aware of and they're admitting and acknowledging that and say it requires further study I mean that is the first step that's like the tipping point to acknowledging that something is occurring that is outside of our scope of alleged scope of understanding with physics but you guys remember that Larry McGuire he's the he's a member of parliament in Canada and he wrote that memo to the Five Eyes and talked about the foreign technologies division and if you read that report that George and I put out or listened to that show when we accessed all that information and reached out to McGuire himself what we learned is that you know he was saying we're going to lose the trust of our population that's the whole tone of that letter is that you know another country is going to disclose this first Canada has to get ahead of this there was a sense of urgency and I found that really interesting because he must know something that says hey this is important not to lose the trust of our populace because we're going to be behind the Apeball on this one if you guys remember the memo that's the tone that it had Jeremy I have a question for you I was wondering because you know some of the whistleblowers that have come forward recently including Matthew Brown, Michael Herrera and Jake Barber they all agree they all perceive that you're a person and you're not a person and you're not a person and you're not a person and you're not a person and you're not a person and you're not a person and they all agree they all perceive that the back engineering efforts have been somewhat successful but I will say someone like Jim Semivan he's skeptical they've been successful he thinks there's been derivative technologies I think you also think they've attained derivative technologies but have you or George changed your mind at all about the proposition that there have been some actual replication technologies actually fly, fly and stuff like that. Yeah, I'm really open to having my mind changed on that because I remember it being a very sad day when I came to the definitive conclusion, you know, from where I was standing then, that we have not made significant progress in any way. And I've heard a lot of stories about a type of reverse engineered craft, particularly triangles, right, that operate with some of this technology. The evidence is there that something exists as far as propulsion leaps that we've taken, but I don't have significant evidence that it's anything on an industrial scale or that we've really mastered this. Again, I would love to be wrong. And there's a lot of people that probably have a lot more information than I do on it. But I see also the nonsense and the bullshit, like trying to claim that in 2004, the Tic Tac was made by Lockheed. That is inherently false from any scope of my imagination, from anything that I actually know. I also know that that is a narrative that I told everybody this, I told everybody this years before that this was going to be a narrative that is pushed because I saw it coming in as passage material from the CIA. And so that is something that they reached out to command a favor about. That was something some good friends of mine who are on the programs told me, tried to warn me that that was going to be something coming out of that agency and infiltrating into popular culture, which it now has. So that is also a signal when you're trying to pretend to people that we have greater capability than we do, which is a great thing for our enemies, right? To make them think we've got things like Tic Tacs out of Lockheed. The thing is, is that anybody I've ever talked to on these programs flatly says that I wish that was the case. So no, my mind hasn't been changed, but I'm really open to it being changed with good information. You know, and it's my friend, Michael Vye, who was a former Intel defense contractor, he said he texted me like last week, he goes, if if we have that tech, he goes, there's just no way they're going to let it out like that. They're not going to go to a reporter and say, we have this tech because there goes our there goes our technological advantage over an adversary. So he believes if we have it, because he's definitely on the side of thinking we do, they wouldn't let it out on the flip side. And it's only an anecdote, but it's one of my favorite anecdotes. Commander Will Miller, who did a lot of briefings in the Pentagon, he briefed Admiral Wilson, he was the lead, even though Stephen Gresson, he was the lead, but Will Miller was the lead to brief Admiral Wilson. He said on his last he was working with a guy who worked over at Area 51. And on this guy's last day or Will's last day in the command, this guy said to Will, he goes, hey, Will, he goes, you know, those craft that you got your friends at C SETI C in the air where they're doing 90 degree turns and going mock nine. And you guys think they're extraterrestrial. He goes, yeah, he goes, well, they're not. And he goes and the guy just walked away. So that's it's an anecdote. Obviously, it does not prove anything, but it makes me wonder. It's always making me wonder. Do we have that? And in the end, I don't know because it's mixed. Eric Davis, no way we have not done it. Other people. Oh, yeah, we've we've back engineered. We have triangles that can go anywhere, anytime in the universe. I don't know what to believe. Yeah, I believe question. Forgive me, Jeremy, if you've answered this before, what do you think was our recorded that night when they went out there? What do I think he recorded? I think he recorded a test flight of what it is that he knew was working out there because it came up at the same time every week. I think it was this. It was probably us flying something that. Oh, right. Yeah. That I still don't know him even to this day. That's something that Lazar has really grappled with because he just doesn't have enough information. He found it extremely odd that you could kind of talk with a pilot inside of one of these things with a radio. He's like none of that make he was questioning it when it happened. He's like none of that makes sense from how I understand these craft operate. If they do have a gravitational propulsion system, radio waves doesn't come in and out of it. So he already thinks there was some kind of ploy to misdirect him during the operation of that craft. You know, for all we know, it was a nonhuman being that was in there. Maybe it was a human pilot. Maybe it was an autonomous craft. There's just no way for us to know or speculate. Even Bob doesn't know. That's one of the coolest parts of that story to me is that they get that video of whatever they recorded. Yeah. And everybody out there that might have talked to, I think every single one except one that was out there during that filming. And they all said it was a disc. I mean, you could see it with your eyes. You know, you could see much better than a 1980s like camcorder in the dark. Like with their eyes, it was a disc, a disc shaped craft. Let me take the conversation another way. Last time we all got together, it was the winter. And the UFO community was extremely excited about Skywatcher. And Jake Barber basically, you know, he made a claim that they were going to have. He used the word undebunkable and he also basically gave about a year's timeline. So we're in the eighth month of the year. We haven't seen any proof. How do you guys feel about that? Are you a little bit more pessimistic if you were positive on it or are you guys feeling? Hi, because I'm sorry. Well, I'll just say that, you know, when he said that, I was, you know, excited in the sense that I hope he's right. But look, I'm giving the stage, you know, I give him the stage. He has what? A few more months to go. So I hope him and his team can get some smoking gun data that proves we're not alone. That would be great. And we could just move on to the post disclosure world. But yeah, I mean, I don't know why he made that statement to me. Even if you believed there was a good chance, you'd be wise not to say it. It's just why put pressure on yourself like that? Why put yourself under scrutiny? You know, it's like just allow your work to show itself to to to communicate its value. So I don't I think it was a mistake for him to say that. But if he if he brings the goods, then more power to. And they talked, he talked about their ability to vector in a craft, summon a craft and bring it down to the ground, which is amazing. Oh my God, disclosure. So now we're seeing their videos, which they're OK. Their videos are interesting. But I want to see the craft being brought down to the ground. If you're going to make that claim, do it. What's why can't you just do it right now? If you have the ability to bring craft down without technology, using a psionic asset, using their psychic abilities, do that. And then this question about whether or not we're alone, assuming well, that's assuming that there's something inside, but that would be you momentous. And so I am skeptical. But, you know, I'm patient. They still have time. I'm frustrated because I mean, I've seen people tell me they've got these extraordinary capabilities. I've never claimed I do. I tried to bend a spoon with my mind with Dr. Edgar Mitchell and I failed dramatically. I can't I have no psychic ability. So I haven't seen even somebody who's been able to demonstrate that to me in a very fundamental way. So the claim that you can bring something down. Have they claimed that they've done this before, that they've brought down whole craft with their minds? Have they claimed they've done that? Where were the. I'm pretty sure they. Yeah, I'm pretty sure they have claimed to have done that. And I don't know if it was where they were doing that, if they were doing it along with the government in the government program. And that's why we don't have video. But do it now. Like, you know, you're out of the program now. Do it instead of wasting our not wasting our time. But instead of showing us videos that are, you know, they're not really definitive, bring down a craft. Bottom line is this, guys, it's going to take. So I'm going to give the dude, I don't know the guy that much. Like he's nice talk to me three times. But I think given everybody a little bit of grace here, like I'm not going to put somebody on a clock, they shouldn't put themselves on a clock either. You know, it's like, I think if we have an asymmetric approach to studying this, like, obviously, we all think this is real, or we have enough evidence to satisfy within ourselves that this is a real and important phenomenon. So that's where maybe the four of us are coming from. But I think what we can do is try to enroll the curiosity of more and more people through an asymmetric approach. If we have hearings, that's great. And I think you're right. I think it was Danny or Ryan, you said, if we get those hearings, then that'll push us towards maybe the legislation having more fuel and more steam. Absolutely. I absolutely agree with that. That if you have the endeavors of Skywatchers, you have the endeavors of the Soul Foundation, you have the endeavors of, you know, whistleblowers coming to me and George, we have people talking about it and doing journalism on it like you three, all of that together. I think we're going to find ourselves in a different location in, you know, eight months from now than we are today. But I will never put a clock and push it on one person is going to bring us absolute disclosure on this topic. I think we have to work all in tandem, if not together. Does that make sense? And I think there's another issue, too. George Knapp speaks about this a lot with Skimwalker Ranch. Like, you know, you had you had NIDS, National Institute of Discovery, Science or whatever it was. Yeah. And they spent years trying to document the phenomenon and had all kinds of brilliant people trying to document it. And this was one of my criticisms early on when Jake Barber said he's going to get the evidence in a year because I have this bias that the phenomenon picks and choose who it gives evidence to. I mean, you know, it's been stated that they're the architects of the secrecy. And I think that's true. And if it is true at all, that all these corporations actually have parts and pieces and crash retrieval programs are able to get these craft. I don't think it's a statistical anomaly that no one else is able to do so. So in that sense, you know, I know it sounds spooky and conspiracy oriented, but I failed to see a good counter argument. It seems to me that the phenomenon is kind of controlling this trajectory and this kind of the scenario we're in where allegedly governments and corporations, the intelligence community and militaries have smoked and got evidence of various kinds, whether it's radar data, visuals or even craft, the pieces of the craft, tracking the craft, coming in and out of the water. But yet is Abilob going to get this? Are other scientists going to get it? I don't know. It depends. I mean, if the phenomenon wants them to, yeah, it's inevitable. But I'm just not convinced and hopefully I'm wrong. I'm not convinced that you can necessarily just put your best foot forward scientifically. And if you do the right thing, you'll get the you'll get the smoking gun because the phenomenon might be five, 10, 20 steps ahead of their efforts. And they at the end of the day, they may just get the pick and choose. So it is plausible that if when Jake Barber was in any programs, in that scenario, the phenomenon is willing to show itself with with more clarity and in a more in a more documentable way. Now, using the public sector with Skywatcher, the phenomenon might not cooperate in that scenario. You've brought up one of my biggest issues. So with the general public, the videos that we see people sharing are basically useless and no offense to people shooting the video. And then we have Christopher Mellon and you and George saying some of the videos you have are amazing. Christopher Mellon saying they're 4K. Then we got up close stuff. So why and it could be a sensor issue, but why is like we never get to see that. But somehow the intelligence community, the government, you guys are getting stuff sent to you. Why is this such a disparity in what we're seeing publicly and what what allegedly exists privately? And it's a really good point for skeptics to say or debunkers like because it doesn't exist privately, you know, your video that you guys released of that disk going through the clouds is one of the most. That's the video we've all been thinking. All right, there's a craft that we've heard about a flying saucer. Other than that, nothing else we've seen looks like what we've heard about over the years. You have any. Yeah, what do you think? You know, totally. And I think that that has been a difficult thing with with me and George is we'll get what we feel is our best evidence that we can put out at that time without endangering other things, you know, sources, national security, basically those two things. You know, we have to be careful, dude. It's people don't like doing this job. I'll tell you that much is obtaining things that sometimes appear like they could be dangerous. So it's always like this idea is is it going to push the needle? Right. If I had the perfect, all powerful video and it would change the world, I would not hesitate to drop it, but everything is nuanced, Joe. You know that. So even this last one that our government has said, this is a disk. This is a disk, UAP, and it's still classified a disk. You know, to me, it's the best we've seen so far, but it is not like the perfect video. And if I had the perfect video, you know, I would push to get that up immediately. But everything is nuanced. A lot of this footage, you say, four K. Well, look, when stuff gets leaked to me in George, it's obviously people are like filming a screen in a room. It's never going to be traditionally four K. So I just don't know what's going to be what's going to change the attitudes, but a long, durational kind of like putting things out as we can and trying to up the ante each time, better and better evidence. And we're going to do our best. But again, this disclosure thing is not in our hands. There's people that would be much more adept at being able to, you know, kind of convince the world about the truth about UAP. All I can do is my small part. But that's the thing I think that if we each do our small part, I really feel that collective push is what we need and where we're going to how we're going to get anywhere. Hey, Joe, I have a question for you. Why do you think Trump hasn't signed an executive order for UFOs? He's did it with JFK. Right. And Kennedy, what's your perspective on what I mean? The legacy that I mean, he has an ego. The legacy he would have for that is is incomprehensible. What is that allegedly he didn't put out the JFK files because Mike Pompeo told him it would be a bad idea. And he agreed with Mike Pompeo and he did not put out the JFK files. The only thing I can assume is if there are probably people around him saying you cannot do this, you want to have the economy tank, you want to see the stock market tank, it'll be on your watch. That will be your legacy. That's the only thing I could think of why he wouldn't do it. But I'm speculating. I don't know. Hopefully he does. It's like. I wasn't expecting it. I wasn't also negative on it. I was just, let's see what he does. And he saw his time, but you're right. His legacy, if he put it out and we got this amazing footage, he would be he would go down in the history books. People would forget about Epstein and everything else, you know? So I'm not hoping it's going to happen. But you got I don't know if you guys have any ideas why he would not do it. Oh, I'd imagine they'd say we were just going to shoot you in the face like Kennedy, if you even try to do that. I mean, that's the way that you'd get someone not to do it is just, you know, tell them this is what's going to happen to you. These are our national secrets and you do not let that out or we're going to shoot you in the face. I mean, that would stop most human being from doing it. Right. And there's always debate whether the presidents have access. Do you have any insight on that, Jeremy? Yeah, I don't think there's a lot of debate on that. Even Clinton came out and said, you know, it wouldn't be the first time I'd lie. I was lied to when I asked that they didn't really give me anything on Roswell and whatnot. So I think from the people I know that have done presidential briefings on the topic to the people in these organizations that have been studying it and trying to push information with the White House, I think it depends on two fold. One is the interest of the sitting president. And then if the sitting president does ask, you know, look, they can be lied to and obfuscated from just like anybody can be in a bureaucracy and America is definitely a bureaucracy. So it's not everybody's read in in the same way as what I I don't think that's up for debate. It just appears that way. Can I ask you a question? Yes. So have you or do you know of anybody else who has claimed to have spoken to the witness I described earlier, somebody who claims to have worked in a program for a decent amount of time and you had hands on a craft said, yeah, I worked on it and my conclusion was after three years or whatever, this was a this was a non human craft. Yes, I know people in official capacity who have interviewed with people that exactly fit this description and I have pushed on them being like, what is it going to take for someone like that to come forward publicly? And by the way, that was part of an ICIG investigation where people of that level were communicated with. And I know I know exactly who is doing that that back and forth. And here's the deal, ma'am. They said to me, what would be the motivation for someone like that to to break from the fold and destroy their whole lives just because they were called in to come talk with me? It's not going to happen. It's it's just not going to happen. There has to be somebody who's so upset with something surrounding this that they're just like going to try to burn it all down. And usually those people never make it to the starting point, you know, if they're coming from that attitude. People that work in those programs are so highly monitored with polygraphs and, you know, their family lives, making sure they're stable. If you remember all the way back, looking to the czar, why did he get not called back for the program? It was because they found out his wife was cheating on him and he became a security risk. That's how security clearances work is you have to have a stable family life. So people that would break from the fold that are feeling all that type of pressure and just try to burn the whole house down. Dude, they're going to find out there in that mental state way prior to them ever being able to get to the starting point. So it's a long way to say, yeah, man, the Holy Grail. Yeah, I know about those conversations. I've talked to people on both sides of those conversations. The thing is there's no indication that people like that are at this moment willing to come forward. And in fact, I can't go further than that. But in fact, if people were willing at one point, I don't think it's possible anymore for them. And just to be clear, you're talking about other people who have had the conversations with those whistleblowers, not you. Well, what I'm admitting to is in official capacity, there are people doing this investigation that have conveyed to me their direct official debriefing with individuals in those programs, like working on the technology currently, non human technology. So I know these people have had those investigatory roles and had those briefings and took the information because of the ICIG. You know, reports. Cool. Yeah. I wish I could help more on that, guys. You know, something that would always that would bother me because I've seen this happen if I was a whistleblower. We've seen stories and we've come out and we thought they would be bigger. And so it's like we're battling the public or public perception, I should say. I always go back to the Stars Academy when they put out the Tic Tac. I think they were all probably thinking that was going to be disclosure and then it up. It pushed the ball. I mean, move the ball greatly. It was amazing. But, you know, it wasn't disclosure. If I had known about that story before it came out, I would have thought that was it. So we're always having to one up the previous stories and battling public perception and how the public is currently operating with news stories. And with the public being, I think, more pessimistic and just the state of the world right now, it's getting harder and harder. It's the Earlson in his interview he put out that was put out yesterday. He was so excited. He goes, you know, the hearings are a little slow, but overall behind the scenes, we're making progress. And he's really excited. And I'm like a few years ago, somebody privately told me, hey, members of Congress are being brief. They know the entire story. And this person was very excited. And I'm like, OK, but I mean, we got Grush. Grush came forward because this person was like, people are going to come forward. The American people are going to be scared. Some of them are going to be excited. I think this person was talking about Grush and maybe now. Well, they came forward. Nothing. People don't even know Grush now. Some people did at the time. It was definitely I walked into a pizza place when he had right after he had testified and I go, somebody is, how are you doing? I'm like, well, we just had a congressional hearing. He goes, David Grush. So yeah, some people did know about it. But for the most part, if I ask people in my family, 99% of them do not know David Grush is 100% do not know who Carl Nell is. So yeah, it's public perception. People compared to what the people we talked to, somebody I talked to behind the scenes, they're like, here it comes. The public's like, yeah, I don't care. Yeah. I think it's just going to be slow and steady, you guys. And let's let's wrap up this way. First of all, it's great talking to you guys. I'm a kind of fan of each of your styles of engaging people. I like watching the Twitter wars. It's more entertaining than storage wars. It's so cool to see what you guys uncover and the way that you, you know, thoughtfully engage people and each of you have your own kind of skill set. So I just want to say everybody should follow you guys on social media because I do and I learn a lot about what's going on in the UFO world. I don't always tune into social media, but I'll follow your guys stuff. But let's end this way. I guess what I'm saying is I'm optimistic still. I think that we're going to have the best hearings that we can legally have at this time. I think we're going to, you know, push the envelope a little bit more open. If they choose just three of the people that I've nominated to Congress, I think we're in a good place to continue the conversation. It's not going to bring disclosure in September. But I think that paired with good journalism, honest journalism, which is sparse these days when it comes to the topic and then also just relying on the information that comes to journalists such as videos and that sort of thing. Let's just do our best, get everything out, talk about it, raise the bar a little bit more of the discussion. So vice presidents can come out and openly admit that they're UFO fans. And I think that we're going to make progress. Whatever this disclosure plan is, let it be from the beings or just from the willful army of people that want the truth. I think that we're making progress and it might not be fast enough for everybody. But we are sitting in a different world today than we were in 2017. Final thoughts. Oh, I'd be remiss if I do not mention the work of, I don't know if you've talked about it or you've seen it, Jeremy, but the work of astronomer Beatrice Villarreal. Very interesting showing basically in plates from before Sputnik when there were no satellites. There were these transients that would show up on these plates and then a half an hour before or a half an hour later or a little around that time they would just disappear. And what the evidence shows is that there's a statistically statistically significant amount of these objects are disappearing when the sun is in complete shadow. So it suggests that they're reflective and they may be in a orbit. What's it when the satellites are geocentric orbit? They may be craft. There's like hundreds, possibly hundreds of thousands. I don't think there are that many if they're craft, but people should check out her work. Beatrice Villarreal. I think I'm saying her name correctly. Yeah, a fascinating step forward if that proves to be the case. Again, it's not going to bring the ultimate disclosure as Ryan described it, but it is going to be another kind of step in the direction of understanding the phenomenon, if it is true. Any final words from you guys? I'll just say that I'm looking forward to the hearings and I'm looking forward to the trajectory we're on. I mean, yeah, I would like disclosure to happen in the next five minutes, but barring that, I look forward to all the developments that are going to happen that, you know, let's be honest, if the December 16, 2017 New York Times article never came out, we wouldn't be here right now. We would not be having this conversation, let alone seeing so many interesting news pieces coming out on the regular about the UFO issue. Danny? I would say, you know, back when I had first started writing, and of course now I'm mostly retired, but I would talk to George and get journalism tips. And I bet he doesn't even want me to say this, but one of the tips he gave me was don't compliment him because he doesn't need to. And he was really blunt with me, and he was always really incredible. I would always be able to ask him questions and bounce things off him. With that said, I still, no matter how frustrated I am or skeptical of politicians and just the process and things like that, I know that we're in the best hands with Jeremy and George, and you guys are doing the most that could possibly be done at the time. So I think that a lot of people would take that for granted, and I think you guys are the undisputed best UFO reporters for many years you've shown that. So I would just like to remind people of that. Maybe everyone already thinks that because they're watching this podcast, but they're They hate us and they love watching the train wrap. There's always a lot of controversy going on in the UFO community, and I mean, you guys are the best at what you do over and over again. And I would just like to thank you guys for what you're doing, and I'm looking forward to the next hearing and what you're doing after that and everything along those lines. So, you know, we appreciate it. Awesome. And yeah, I hope that we get someone you've not heard from before that can give you more insight to the UFO thing when it comes to their personal testimony. I'm very optimistic that's going to happen unless there's some sort of rug that's pulled out underneath my feet. We're on the right path for people to hear from people that they have not heard about or heard from yet. And again, that's just a step forward. So, you know, keep the hope and just keep up the good work, you guys. And thanks for joining me. I'm sure everybody on Weaponize will be stoked to hear your perspectives and be able to follow your work. And I think George says he missed out on us this time, but he'll probably do an intro and an outro for the show. Okay. Dan, thank you for all the hard work you've done, Jeremy, on the hearings. I know a lot of people don't realize, but I know it's not easy. So, I really look forward to September and it's going to be interesting. There's a lot of people involved, right? A lot of people and staff, remember Representative Luna set this in motion. So, she has the opportunity because of her task force to hold hearings. And so, all I'm trying to do is facilitate people that want to be able to speak with Congress, whether publicly or not. But there's a lot of people working on this, some really great staffers who are spending time and energy, a lot of like video calls. So, there's a lot of people working on this. Again, I don't hold any of the cards of who testifies, but all I can do is nominate and I've done my best for that. And so, let's see, you know, if we have good hearings or not, it's just a matter of who's talking, right? Yeah. And you set the bar. Let's see what happens. You didn't make any promises. You said, do not expect disclosure this time. It's just going to move the ball forward a little. And that's all you can do, you know? That's right. That's right. All right. Well, September, we can't come fast enough, but hopefully you guys have a good August. We'll talk soon. Thanks for joining the show, man. If you want to save a few quid, British gas have a way. You get half price lekkie and it's called Peek Save. On every Sunday, it's the smart thing to do if you're regular folk or furry and blue. 11 till 4. Let the good times begin. You could charge up the car or take the dryer for a spin. Half price electricity. What joy that brings with British gas Peek Save. We're taking care of things. TSMC supply eligible tariffs and smart meter required. So you want to start a business. You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need Go Daddy Arrow. I'm Walton Goggins and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing. Go Daddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo. It'll create a custom website. It'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. Get started at godaddy.com slash arrow. That's godaddy.com slash A I R O. Well, that was fun. You had fun. Yeah, it's cool to talk with those guys and they're really thoughtful and we have different opinions, but it's cool to hear everybody's opinion. And I got to say they're really tuned in to like what's happening now. So I suggest everybody go like look at their social media and kind of follow what they do because you're going to know before anybody if you do that. So we are now less than 30 days of when we presume the congressional hearing is going to happen. And I know there are a number of names that you have proposed to them. There are other names maybe that they've considered some names that maybe have been suggested by other folks on Capitol Hill. But what are your expectations and what can we convey to our listeners about the legal implications of somebody coming forward spilling the beans about something to which they swore an oath and signed non-disclosure agreements, what their legal jeopardy may or may not be. I mean, it's not cut and dried and a simple thing that if Congress calls you in, you're free to talk about whatever you want. It's just not that way. Right. Yeah. People don't understand the process so much, which I get like how would people, but it's not just like we give them names. We do years of vetting on people. We create different categories of exposure to this sort of thing. And we bring them these different levels of people firsthand for sure. But the question is like to what level have they been exposed? Was it accidental spillage on documents or was it seeing a craft? So we also didn't have to provide the time that Congress can in their own way, vet each person. And we make that job very easy for them, but they have to do their own vetting as well. And ultimately, they're creating a kind of event where they feel it will have most impact based upon the idea of the hearing that they're creating. And this one is about transparency. So or whatever that means that it's, you know, it's about it is about transparency. So I don't know what to expect. I think that wholly depends on who they choose and how they set it up. Maybe in the UFO land, people are going to be, you know, I've heard this before. I mean, there's definitely going to be people you haven't heard from. But to the general public, the idea is to get the big aspects out there. However, there are people that I think they have to be throttled a little bit with what they can say. And I don't know a lot about the legality. Some people have signed NDAs. Some people said I'll never talk about this. Some people, but the nature of their employment are never supposed to talk about it. So let's I hope that some of those people can share in a public open hearing. And that is the goal for everything to be public. None of these closed door, I've set up too many of those closed door hearings or closed door briefings. And it's like, it doesn't help. And so now this is the idea is what can we get public? And I don't know all the legalities, but I hope we can have someone on the podcast that can help us with that. I think I got someone in mind who could help us sort that out for the people who could become witnesses. It's not as easy as UFO observers think. I mean, stepping forward and testifying at a congressional hearing before the whole world, in essence, it changes your life. You never go back. I mean, you know, you can never change coming out like that. They could probably never work in classified programs again. They have to worry about legal ramifications and possible prosecutions. And believe it or not, there are risks to their safety and to their families. And I know people think that that's all made up that there's no way they'd be taken out or suddenly disappear because they testify or spill some beans. But they believe it is very real. And I tend to believe them on that point as well. Yeah, I think for some people, the greatest self-defense is to go public, is just to come out. And there's a couple cases like that of people that we've proposed that would testify. And look, there's other people who are just active duty right now. And surprisingly, some of them are willing to openly testify about their personal experiences, which goes against the idea of protecting yourself with your career. Hopefully, there's nothing, no repercussions for them within their careers. But you never know. I think everybody has taken a risk to some degree. But some people feel it's really important to get their experiences documented on congressional record. They feel this topic is so important, they're willing to break from that fold. So we have a whole variety of different people, people that are active, people that are not, people that have signed oaths, people that haven't. Let's just see who Congress decides to utilize. And look, any UFO hearing is a good hearing. But the idea is to elevate each time and create more information in the public sphere. Well, I give kudos to these staff members. They are diligent about it. They're really doing their homework, trying to make it right, making sure that they're not putting on someone who maybe doesn't belong there and coordinating with you, getting opinions about what kind of bang for the buck they'd be getting if they called witness X or Y or Z. So I look forward to it happening. I look forward to learning more about the legalities and I look forward to the next time we get together and talk for an episode of Weaponize.