Hi, it's Dr. Jen Kennedy. I'm a sexologist and couples therapist. The Pleasure Project podcast is about sex and relationships. So this includes discussions on desire, dysfunction, dissatisfaction, exploration of all things sex related. So sometimes I'll do toy reviews and we'll look at trends. And sometimes I'll also enlist other experts. We'll increase your insight and enhance your pleasure. So tune in. In this episode, I am talking about intimacy and how it relates to sexuality because there is a difference. And I get curious about when you choose to engage in sexuality and how that differs from intimacy. Both are really valuable, but I get curious about what is sexuality for you? Why do you engage when do you let them in? What does it serve for you? What have you learned about your own self in this process? And so I just sort of explore that idea and go in. So welcome back. I hang my shingle out as a sex therapist, which means that 95% of the people that I see come in with either dysfunction, dissatisfaction, disconnection to some degree, I see both couples and individuals, but these folks are coming in because something's not working. But what I'm realizing is that they don't actually understand the problem. And so I want to sort of go behind the curtain and let you see what I'm seeing because I want you to help me understand this problem because it's not what it appears, actually. If you come in and you say, I don't like my sex life, it would be easy for us to go at it like, okay, what's wrong with it? Does it not work because you don't like the quality of it? Like, it hurts something hurts or something doesn't work in the way it used to work? Okay, so fine, that's one problem. Oftentimes, though, no, it's that you don't like how it feels inner personally, or you don't have enough want. But what you're really saying is you're not having the feelings that you want to have, meaning you don't have the right level of desire, typically towards your partner, or the sex just doesn't feel that satisfying. Yes, the act is occurring, but it doesn't, it doesn't leave you feeling the way that you actually want to feel. So sometimes it is the mechanics of it. So sometimes it's like, yeah, it hurts, in which case we can we can work on that. Sometimes it's that it happens too fast, or you can't get an erection or whatever, and that's more on the medical side. But that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about when you have sex, but then you're left still feeling empty, or disconnected, or somehow like it just didn't, it didn't scratch that itch, right? Like at the end of it, you're still feeling kind of lonely, or disconnected, or somehow unsatisfied. And so that's where I get really curious. And that feels to me like it's not so much about the sex, right? The sex is in service of something, but it's not about the sex. It's more about you wanting something different. You want intimacy, right? It's a broader conversation. It's a broader seeking that you are after in that effort. And many couples have a really good relationship in every other aspect, right? So you can say that you like your partner, right? Your husband or wife, you feel close to them, you trust them, you respect them, you like how they function more or less as a parent, you get up day after day and you like them and see them in and out of how they function. And you're like, yeah, they're a good person, they're a good human. But I don't desire them. I don't actually want them. Or I kind of want to have sex occasionally. But when we do, I could trade them out, right? I don't particularly want them. Or when we do have sex, I sort of feel humho about it. There's ambivalence about the sex that we're having. And not because of the quality of the sex, but because you personally, you don't feel that engaged in it. You don't feel that, you don't feel that satisfied with it, but you also just don't feel that energetically interested in it as it's happening. So then when it's over, you're like, yay, it happened. And maybe you even had an orgasm. So you got that release. But there's something emotionally that doesn't feel quite like enough, right? And it's like, what is that? Yeah, it's, you know, I think it's a combination of things that are probably happening for you. I think that there's probably from what I'm seeing that maybe you're a little bit distracted, maybe that you're kind of entering into it because it's convenient or because sort of you know, time, time led up that it was going to happen. And so you participated, but you were sort of one foot in, one foot out. And so the act occurred, but your mind was sort of spliced and you weren't really present and you weren't fully maybe ready or interested in participating. So there was ambivalence throughout the act, which you're two humans with different timetables. And maybe sometimes you're offline and sometimes you're online. And maybe that is or isn't what you wanted in that particular moment, or it didn't happen in the way you wanted. So it didn't turn you on fully, or your needs didn't get met exactly. Sometimes too, though, there's also other things going on for you. Like maybe you just weren't that ready, because you weren't that interested in sex in general. Maybe there's unresolved stuff that's happening either for you personally, or for you relationally. So personally, maybe you've had a really hard day, maybe you're worried about other things, but you didn't show up to the sex that present, like you weren't really that interested. And so the intimacy wasn't really happening. You were kind of there and you were hoping for something connection wise, but it didn't manifest. So at the end of it, you kind of feel empty, right? You're like, and so intimacy is really what we're talking about. It's interesting because you can have sex without intimacy, and you can have intimacy without sex. Like the two are not one and the same. And they get sort of conflated into the same idea. And people use the word interchangeably, but it's actually not the same at all. I find that, yeah, a lot of times when people say sex, they actually are really craving intimacy, that when they're talking about the frequency, what they really want is intimacy. They would like you really want quality, you want the quality of sex over the quantity, right? You would, I would wager that you would probably trade really great exchange with somebody with your partner with whoever you're choosing to have sex with. You would trade having a really good sexual experience over having lots and lots of sex. That's like mediocre, right? It's like you'd have a really great sex once a week over or once a month over so-so sex, like more often, guessing that's probably true. And so the disconnection feeling after sex can actually leave you feeling more lonely than ever. And the intimacy that oftentimes you were craving didn't get met. And so the bummer is at the end of it is that you're sitting there feeling like, what was that for? And so you're laying next to somebody and you're feeling like, that didn't get me anywhere. That just kind of felt like whatever, that felt like kind of getting off or sort of another chore and it's disappointing. Yeah, and then it's really disappointing. Whereas the intimacy can be quite satisfying without sex and intimacy can look like a lot of things. It can look like cuddling. It can look like deep connecting conversation. It can look like, a lot of times it's talking to somebody in a really connected, important way. We have it with friends too, right? Where somebody's listening to me and they're hearing me and they're talking, in a validating way, back to me and I'm like, oh my God, you get me. You heard me. You know me in a way that tells me that you understand what I just said matters to me. And so you're saying things back to me to tell me that and indicate that to me. And so I feel heard and understood. That feels so satisfying and that feel, I feel so held and so known. That is intimacy. That is important. And that type of sex is incredible, right? When you have sex that feels like you feel known, you feel seen, you feel connected and physically you feel good. Wow, right? That is like, that is amazing sex. That is also not the kind of sex we often have. So I guess I kind of go back to when we're asking for sex, are we really asking for intimacy? And do you see the difference? And when you're sort of wanting that itch to be scratched, what are you really needing? A quick pause here to share something that I've been working on that I think you will really appreciate, especially if you've ever felt confused or disconnected from your sexual desire. It's a self paced course that I created for women who want a better understanding of their sexual desire, especially if it's felt confusing, inconsistent or hard to access. A lot of us are taught that desires should just be there effortless, spontaneous, always on, but that is not the reality for most people. And when it's not, it can leave you feeling frustrated or like something is wrong with you. If you've ever felt turned on one day and completely disconnected the next, or if you've struggled to say what you really want sexually, if you're both excited by the idea of vibrant sex and hesitant about what that even looks like, this course is for you. Desire is complex. It lives in your brain just as much as your body. And in this course, I guide you through the understanding of your unique relationship to it without pressure, shame or performance, you'll get short videos and guided worksheets to help you map out your personal erotic template, identify what turns you on and off and what shuts you down, understand the blocks might be getting in your way, reconnect with your body and you'll explore your sexual self with more confidence and curiosity. You can go at your own pace. You don't need to want more sex. You just need to want to know yourself better. So if this resonates, then head on over to pleasureproject.us and learn more and enroll in the course. Now back to the episode. When I think about your asking for more sex, but do you really want sex? Connection feels really more what the ask is about, like quality connection. Because I feel like you're lonely. And maybe it's not like, of course, you have friends and you have people in your life. But there is this feeling of loneliness that I see in a lot of people. And I'm wondering if you're actually lonely in a way and that you want, you want, you want to feel known, you want to feel cared for by somebody who actually really matters in your world. And you want that understanding and that reflection and that attention, right? Attention is oftentimes what I'm sensing so many couples are really trying to achieve in their intimate life is quality attention. And they don't get it because our attention is so fractured so much of the time and we live very busy lives. But in this, in this way, in this special time, like sex is one of the few things that we have that we don't share with other people, we share it with our partners. And so it feels like this one realm is what we have uniquely with our partner. And so yes, it is an action, but it's also about an interaction. It's about an exchange of a certain type that is hard to exactly describe. So when our partner is asking for sex, it's not just about the action because I feel like oftentimes too, when we say we want sex, or when we say we don't want sex, it's code like, what are you actually asking for? Are you asking for closeness? Are you asking for attention? Are you asking for, are you asking for relief? Are you asking to get off? Because all of those are totally fine and valid. And I think all of those happen at different times. Are you saying, I want to let you in, I want you to know me better? Are you saying, let's go into this space together and explore? And that's not the language you use, obviously, but really when we sink down into it, what is the invitation that you're actually presenting to your partner when you initiate sensual play? If you stop and think about it, I feel like so much of this is automated. It's like, I want to have sex, but why? What is the why? What's underneath that? It's an urge, but why? Is there a desire for relational closeness? What do you want in that? And I get really curious about, what do you get out of it? What are you hoping in that exchange? It could just be to get off. That's cool. But do you also, or could it also be that instead, you really want to feel seen, feel known, feel attended to, feel powerful, feel sexy, feel objectified? Because all of that can feel really incredible too. And I think that those nuances get lost, and sometimes it just becomes about, you want me to do another thing for you. That creates some resentment because I don't want to do it for you. I've done all these other things for you today. I've taken out the trash, I took the kids to school, I don't want to do another thing for you. And what gets lost is that this special thing is the only thing that is just ours. So when it gets framed in this other way, that intimacy by way of sexuality is this really coveted thing that we have together, it's sort of a different conversation. And I get really curious about what that does for you and why you choose to enter the space of sexuality. Because we can all have sex with ourselves, right? That's pretty easy and pretty accessible and doesn't require a lot of negotiation. It doesn't require foreplay for the most part. It's easy to reach orgasm for most people. It's it's just not a big complicated thing. And yet, it's a separate act to partner sex. Like when I choose to do that versus I choose to engage with partner, it's different. So why do you want to have sex with your partner? Like what is that about for you? How is that different? What do you gain when you choose to go down that road? Like what do you get from that exchange? Why is that satisfying? And emotionally, what happens differently when you choose to let your partner in in that way, right? When you choose to let them in emotionally by letting them in physically, when you go into that new place together collectively, what happens for you? And how does that serve you when it's done well? There's lots of times when you just do it to get it over with because it's expected or it's calendar time or whatever. But when it's done well, how does that serve you? What positive outcome does that have for you? That's what I get really curious about because that's what motivates you to return to that space and to consider over and over again to prioritize your sex life. If there isn't a positive outcome, if this experience doesn't feel rewarding for you, you're not likely to want to do it again. If there isn't a feedback loop that feels positive and enriching, if it physically doesn't feel good, that's one thing. But also, if it emotionally and relationally doesn't feel rewarding, then why would you do it over and over again? There has to be a trade-off for you to want to do it again. And it might be that the relationship goes really well for the next couple weeks. It might be that you felt really sexy receiving or giving or you felt powerful in that role. It might be that it just felt incredibly good and you could finally relax. It might be any of those things or all of those things, hopefully. But there has to be a reward loop for you in that to make you want to return to it. Otherwise, you might just decide to stay on the side of intimacy, getting met without sexuality, right? Because on the intimacy side of things, you can have closeness. You can have intellectual rewarding conversations or banter. You can have trust and respect. You can have a lot of really great things that don't involve sex. You can have non-sexual relationships that are really lovely and rewarding with someone that you're in a relationship with of any construct. But I just get curious as to what's your strategy and what's your reasoning? So I'm wondering, where do you enter into this conversation and what is your rationale? What do you want in this? And what motivates you? And do you have both intimacy and sexuality? And do you weave in and out of those? And if so, why or how or when? When do you let them in? When do you go there? Do you go into sexuality? Do you go into intimacy? When do you make those a priority and let yourself sort of shift into that space? What allows for that? Do you value those things? And do you feel like your partner is in the same headspace? Do you think your partner understands that in the same way that you do? So those are just some thoughts I've had recently and I get curious about where you are with all of this. So yeah, leave me a message and let me know any feedback. I appreciate it. All right, I hope this has been helpful and feel free to suggest any topics that might be of interest. Thanks. Hey, it's Dr. Jen. Thanks so much for tuning in. Please leave us a review and leave a comment if something struck you. We'd love to get the feedback. It really helps the podcast. And if you want to reach me, go ahead and direct message me on Instagram or you can reach me at Jen at revieratherapy.com. Thanks.
